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View Full Version : Jay Cutler for Kyle Orton- over at the Da Bears board


Bronco Yoda
10-17-2009, 12:30 AM
http://boards.chicagobears.com/forums/thread/1833940.aspx

btw, just love this little ditty...

"I have been a Bronco fan my whole life and the Bears most definitely got the better end of the deal. We were thrilled when we had Cutler, he is a playmaker. I have always liked the Bears and will root for Cutler and the Bears always."

WTF.... Tell me this guy isn't from this board... please.

Popps
10-17-2009, 12:48 AM
Funny reading that ****.

Cutler already seems to have some doubters, and apologists over there.

Nothing too surprising.

Archer81
10-17-2009, 12:56 AM
Apparently some of the people in Chicago land missed the Ayers pick...funny thread. Suddenly the Bears are rebuilding on defense and Cutler is being counted on to win games for them...good luck with that Chicago.

:Broncos:

hambone13
10-17-2009, 01:22 AM
Funny reading that ****.

Cutler already seems to have some doubters, and apologists over there.

Nothing too surprising.

Give this jackass a carrot...u R dA mAN pOoPS

watermock
10-17-2009, 02:01 AM
http://boards.chicagobears.com/forums/7/1833940/ShowThread.aspx

rastaman
10-17-2009, 05:06 AM
Funny reading that ****.

Cutler already seems to have some doubters, and apologists over there.

Nothing too surprising.

It must be miserable living with yourself....so much hate, stupidity and narrow-mindedness.

cutthemdown
10-17-2009, 05:19 AM
It be miserable living with myself....so much hate, stupidity and narrow-mindedness.


Not only that but your stubborn, egotistical and probably a communist.

cutthemdown
10-17-2009, 05:21 AM
until Ayers has a coming out play, game etc, people will call him a bust. In the NFL its about getting on ESPN not having the d coord say you are holding the edge.

It's important to do that, and it makes the team know the guy is contributing, but it won't raise eyelids until they see big tackles on 3rd down, sacks, etc.

rastaman
10-17-2009, 05:28 AM
Not only that but your stubborn, egotistical and probably a communist.

And what are you "Hog Head"! Describe yourself.......:clown:

rastaman
10-17-2009, 05:37 AM
until Ayers has a coming out play, game etc, people will call him a bust. In the NFL its about getting on ESPN not having the d coord say you are holding the edge.

It's important to do that, and it makes the team know the guy is contributing, but it won't raise eyelids until they see big tackles on 3rd down, sacks, etc.

Not to worry. Ayers has 3 years to prove whether he's a keeper or a bust. I think he's a keeper. Just my opinion.

kappys
10-17-2009, 05:37 AM
until Ayers has a coming out play, game etc, people will call him a bust. In the NFL its about getting on ESPN not having the d coord say you are holding the edge.

It's important to do that, and it makes the team know the guy is contributing, but it won't raise eyelids until they see big tackles on 3rd down, sacks, etc.

Given how rapidly he's improving each week I wouldn't be surprised at all if that starts happening by the end of the season.

watermock
10-17-2009, 05:43 AM
He's never played OLB, of course never did Doom...

cutthemdown
10-17-2009, 05:53 AM
And what are you "Hog Head"! Describe yourself.......:clown:

I'd describe myself as capitalistic, loyal, defensive, combative. And maybe some clown as well I do like silly stuff. Oh yeah and I get better weed then you also.

cutthemdown
10-17-2009, 05:55 AM
He's never played OLB, of course never did Doom...

Doom though they aren't asking to cover. He's not the complete OLB but who cares because in Broncos hybrid system they never ask him to. If Doom on the field it looks like about 90% of the time he's coming after the QB.

Ayers to compliment him will have to be better all around, which actually takes more overall talent IMO.

One thing I like though is Ayers looks strong and physical. I see him looking tenative sometimes, but I haven't really seen him pushed around.

Really none of our front seven getting pushed around. Peterson IMO is playing really well.

BroncoInSkinland
10-17-2009, 06:22 AM
We were thrilled when we had Cutler, he is a playmaker

Well, I think that part is true. I also think Jay will have a good career in the NFL, hopefully after this season so that we get a higher pick, although it doesn't look so good on that front with the record they have now. I also liked Jay until some of the douchebag comments he started making when he went to Chi-town, so I can understand the support for him from Broncos fans. I think the trade is working out very well for both sides currently, which really is the best kind of trade to make. Fleecing someone is fun too, but in the end it hurts future trade negotiations. I hated the trade at the time, so much so that I refused to buy any Broncos gear during the off season as a form of silent protest. With the benefits added to both teams, and the outcome being what it is so far, it looks like I have crow to eat on this issue as well though. I still think Jay could have been phenomenal in this system, and am disappointed at missing what could have been, but Josh saw what this team needed to move toward our current reality and made it happen. McDaniels does make a tasty humble pie I must say.

Edit: Also as a form of contrition, I am buying more Broncos gear than in previous years. If I was going to use 0$ as a stick, I had better be prepared to use Big Money as the carrot in return. Got two throwback Jerseys so far this off season, my hoodie is on the way, and I think I will stop and get a hat on the way home.

TotallyScrewed
10-17-2009, 06:29 AM
Funny reading that ****.

Cutler already seems to have some doubters, and apologists over there.

Nothing too surprising.

Did you really read any of it??

Glowing praise for Cutler...apologist???

So many around here keep bringing it up as if somehow the trade could turn out to be a great trade for Denver. It's not never going to go Denver's way because Orton is what he is...a game manager, limited player and Cutler is huge talent and BTW, playing great for Chicago, which is asking him to be a game manager too.

Denver traded Cutler because they felt they had no choice and got the best they could get for him, or that they could find, in that short period of time. When you do that, getting the best end of the deal doesn't happen...EVER. Sheesh people, REALITY CHECK!

Orton is what he is. When have we seen Orton throw a great pass? He doesn't and that's why there's no comparison.

BroncoInSkinland
10-17-2009, 06:35 AM
It's not never going to go Denver's way because Orton is what he is...a game manager, limited player and Cutler is huge talent and BTW, playing great for Chicago, which is asking him to be a game manager too.


What about Ortons game management skills + Ayers rushing ability (which hasn't produced a great stat line, but some coaches have already attributed some of Doom's to Ayers efforts in containment) + the first round pick from next year? I would say in the end both teams got what they wanted.... wins.

JCMElway
10-17-2009, 07:04 AM
I agree. the trade seems to be a positive for both teams at this point.

Rabb
10-17-2009, 07:20 AM
Did you really read any of it??

Glowing praise for Cutler...apologist???

So many around here keep bringing it up as if somehow the trade could turn out to be a great trade for Denver. It's not never going to go Denver's way because Orton is what he is...a game manager, limited player and Cutler is huge talent and BTW, playing great for Chicago, which is asking him to be a game manager too.

Denver traded Cutler because they felt they had no choice and got the best they could get for him, or that they could find, in that short period of time. When you do that, getting the best end of the deal doesn't happen...EVER. Sheesh people, REALITY CHECK!

Orton is what he is. When have we seen Orton throw a great pass? He doesn't and that's why there's no comparison.

go drown yourself please

chrisp
10-17-2009, 07:21 AM
Why does either team have to 'win' the trade? A trade is by definition both teams giving up something they have to get something they want. Both teams will work hard to ensure fair value so the likliest outcome is all square.

I look at the Champ Bailey deal and most people round here talk as if we made out like bandits but in actual fact we got an outstanding player but we had to give one up too, and I think we've always struggled offensively since we lost Portis - he was the all-round back who could help us chew up yards and keep posession but also be a breakaway threat with his speed.

I am inclined to think we did better out of this deal, but only because Cutler was as-yet unproven as a game manager and a winner, and Orton has always been strong in those areas, so although we were losing Cutler's arm strength we were getting a QB who was better in other areas that were arguably more important, PLUS we were getting two firsts. Still, Cutler has immense potential, so its going to be hard to say it isn't going to look like a better deal for them in a few years than it does now if Cutler develops and matures....

chadta
10-17-2009, 07:41 AM
When have we seen Orton throw a great pass? He doesn't and that's why there's no comparison.

hey negative nancy

did you see the game last week ?

a 90 yard td drive

and a 98 yard td drive, as well as a joke of "got them right where we want them"

player of the week

and your still gonna complain

Br0nc0Buster
10-17-2009, 07:42 AM
I wouldnt trade Orton and the picks back for Cutler

Is Cutler good? yes
Is he better than Orton by two 1sts and a 3rd?
No

Orton played as good a game as Cutler ever did here last week IMO
If Orton can consistently play close to that level then I am not worried at all

Kaylore
10-17-2009, 08:39 AM
Did you really read any of it??

Glowing praise for Cutler...apologist???

So many around here keep bringing it up as if somehow the trade could turn out to be a great trade for Denver. It's not never going to go Denver's way because Orton is what he is...a game manager, limited player and Cutler is huge talent and BTW, playing great for Chicago, which is asking him to be a game manager too.

Denver traded Cutler because they felt they had no choice and got the best they could get for him, or that they could find, in that short period of time. When you do that, getting the best end of the deal doesn't happen...EVER. Sheesh people, REALITY CHECK!

Orton is what he is. When have we seen Orton throw a great pass? He doesn't and that's why there's no comparison.
Stupid post.

HAT
10-17-2009, 09:00 AM
......there's no comparison.

I agree....Cutler will never have the head on his shoulders that Orton does. Orton has been nails so far with his pre-snap reads and recognition.

BroncoBuff
10-17-2009, 09:06 AM
Give this jackass a carrot...u R dA mAN pOoPSIt must be miserable living with yourself....so much hate, stupidity and narrow-mindedness.

And he's so aggressive and attacking with the narrow-mindedness.. A good one-quarter and maybe more of this board's dumbing down and warfare can be traced right back to Poops.

Thing is, he's always like that, it's nothing new with the Cutler thing ... he's had constant flame wars since long before I was here. My considered opinion is there's something is bothering him in his personal life, and he vents his anger and frustration here Knowitall

BroncoBuff
10-17-2009, 09:10 AM
I wouldnt trade Orton and the picks back for Cutler

I actually agree with this. It's still very early but it looks to me like we won this trade.

Although there's gotta be SOME negatives with Orton ... Bears fans hated him and he was benched numerous times.

If it's possible, I think both teams won this trade, so far. Johnny Knox has been HUGE for them.

baja
10-17-2009, 09:13 AM
I actually agree with this. It's still very early but it looks to me like we won this trade.

Although there's gotta be SOME negatives with Orton ... Bears fans hated him and he was benched numerous times.

If it's possible, I think both teams won this trade, so far. Johnny Knox has been HUGE for them.

Is this your opinion?

HAT
10-17-2009, 09:24 AM
Is this your opinion?

This is actually a very good poll topic....Get on it Baja.

Not whether or not you agreed with the trade when it came down....

But as of today:
Would you want Cutler back plus the Bears 2010 5th if the price was...Orton + Denver's 2010 1st (via Chicago) + Denver's 2010 3rd + Denver's 2011 1st?

GreatBronco16
10-17-2009, 09:36 AM
Although there's gotta be SOME negatives with Orton ... Bears fans hated him and he was benched numerous times.


And I'm sure you could supply us with plenty of them.;D

baja
10-17-2009, 09:39 AM
This is actually a very good poll topic....Get on it Baja.

Not whether or not you agreed with the trade when it came down....

But as of today:
Would you want Cutler back plus the Bears 2010 5th if the price was...Orton + Denver's 2010 1st (via Chicago) + Denver's 2010 3rd + Denver's 2011 1st?

That is a good one but it's your idea so you start one. ;D

Garcia Bronco
10-17-2009, 09:40 AM
It must be miserable living with yourself....so much hate, stupidity and narrow-mindedness.

LOL...you just say **** and string words together regardless of what they actually mean.

BroncoBuff
10-17-2009, 09:41 AM
But as of today:
Would you want Cutler back plus the Bears 2010 5th if the price was...Orton + Denver's 2010 1st (via Chicago) + Denver's 2010 3rd + Denver's 2011 1st?

I would not. The theory that Josh's offense is a bad fit for Cuter is kinda true, so we maximized his value, got a good return, and are better off for having made the trade.

Kaylore
10-17-2009, 09:43 AM
I agree with BB. The system fits both players very well and Orton's skill set in particular is a nice compliment to what McDaniels wants to do.

And I also agree that I wouldn't trade Orton and two firsts for Cutler - especially if it meant we got Cutler all pissy all the time.

baja
10-17-2009, 09:44 AM
I would not. The theory that Josh's offense is a bad fit for Cuter is kinda true, so we maximized his value, got a good return, and are better off for having made the trade.

So you have changed your opinion?

Crushaholic
10-17-2009, 09:47 AM
I actually agree with this. It's still very early but it looks to me like we won this trade.

Although there's gotta be SOME negatives with Orton ... Bears fans hated him and he was benched numerous times.



He was benched numerous times because he had bad receivers and a less-than-impressive offensive line. Plus, Lovie really wanted Rex Grossman to be the starter. He gave Rex every opportunity to keep that job. Fast forward to today. Orton has one of the of the best offensive lines in football protecting him and a ton of offensive weapons. Therefore, you can finally see Orton's true potential as a quarterback...

BroncoBuff
10-17-2009, 09:48 AM
So you have changed your opinion?

No. I still think you follow me around too much :~ohyah!:

rastaman
10-17-2009, 10:12 AM
What about Ortons game management skills + Ayers rushing ability (which hasn't produced a great stat line, but some coaches have already attributed some of Doom's to Ayers efforts in containment) + the first round pick from next year? I would say in the end both teams got what they wanted.... wins.

Long term it maybe the Bears getting Cutler will have the edge. Cutler has has shown what he can do with inferior players and managed to win despite having a weaker O line, weaker WR's sets, and a defense thats on decline and injured. Cutler's amazing arm strength and his ability to strike quick to go along with his gritty leadership and threat of running well enough to score in the red zone; shows the Bears players they're never out of any games.

Despite Orton's performance thus far, he's still a high maintenance-encubator type QB. He's needs a great defense, great Wr's, great offensive line, great scheme-system in order to be good. Had Mike Nolan not come in and turned the Defense around, Orton record as a Bronco starting QB would not be 5-0. But lets take nothing away from Orton he's taken advantage of the excellent opportinuty to make sure he's steering his team to victory so long his defense keeps the games close enough to win in the 4th quarter.

rastaman
10-17-2009, 10:15 AM
LOL...you just say **** and string words together regardless of what they actually mean.

I wasn't talking to you "Chuckle Nutz's"!.....:P

Archer81
10-17-2009, 10:39 AM
Long term it maybe the Bears getting Cutler will have the edge. Cutler has has shown what he can do with inferior players and managed to win despite having a weaker O line, weaker WR's sets, and a defense thats on decline and injured. Cutler's amazing arm strength and his ability to strike quick to go along with his gritty leadership and threat of running well enough to score in the red zone; shows the Bears players they're never out of any games.

Despite Orton's performance thus far, he's still a high maintenance-encubator type QB. He's needs a great defense, great Wr's, great offensive line, great scheme-system in order to be good. Had Mike Nolan not come in and turned the Defense around, Orton record as a Bronco starting QB would not be 5-0. But lets take nothing away from Orton he's taken advantage of the excellent opportinuty to make sure he's steering his team to victory so long his defense keeps the games close enough to win in the 4th quarter.


WTF is encubator?

As for needing a great this and a great that...he didnt have that in Chicago...but won more often then he lost. Even John Elway needed dominant position players on offense before he could win a title. Note, I am not comparing Elway and Orton, just using Elway as an example.

:Broncos:

Popps
10-17-2009, 11:00 AM
Did you really read any of it??

Glowing praise for Cutler...apologist???


Oh yea, I'm already hearing the excuses about his defense, etc.

Hilarious!

Sounds very familiar, huh?

Stay tuned. This should be fun. I'm not sure what will be more fun... watching the Bears fans turn on him or the Jay-Gays around here imploding.

Popps
10-17-2009, 11:00 AM
wtf is encubator?



rofl!

Baba Booey
10-17-2009, 11:17 AM
I tried to make myself root for Cutler but it's too hard.

Archer81
10-17-2009, 11:21 AM
I root for Trevor Pryce. I wont for Jay Cutler. He didnt want to be here, and he forced his way out. If that is how he felt about it, then I dont feel the need to root for him.

:Broncos:

rastaman
10-17-2009, 11:35 AM
WTF is encubator?

As for needing a great this and a great that...he didnt have that in Chicago...but won more often then he lost. Even John Elway needed dominant position players on offense before he could win a title. Note, I am not comparing Elway and Orton, just using Elway as an example.

:Broncos:

Perhaps "great" is a little over the top. However, like in Denver today, Orton is benefiting from playing with a good defense. Cutler was 20-2 when the Defense held teams to 21 points or leass.

Br0nc0Buster
10-17-2009, 11:38 AM
Perhaps "great" is a little over the top. However, like in Denver today, Orton is benefiting from playing with a good defense. Cutler was 20-2 when the Defense held teams to 21 points or leass.

AFC player of the week goes beyond just simply "benefiting from a good defense"

Orton isnt a world beater, but he is still pretty good

BTW Orton's record when his defense holds to 21 points is quite impressive as well

rastaman
10-17-2009, 11:42 AM
I root for Trevor Pryce. I wont for Jay Cutler. He didnt want to be here, and he forced his way out. If that is how he felt about it, then I dont feel the need to root for him.

:Broncos:

Contracts aren't etched in stone! Players are forced out from the teams they had played with for years, thats how the NFL operates. And lets not forget that McDaniel's did say to Jay that he couldn't promise Cutler he would not entertain any talks or considerations to trade him if the deal was right and it benefited the Broncos. McDaniel's was just being a good businessman. Cutler demanded a trade b/c he's a good business man as well. Besides, when you can't trust your coach....why stay around if you have enough talent and leverage not to do so. The NFL is a Business for both coaches, owners, and players.

baja
10-17-2009, 11:44 AM
Perhaps "great" is a little over the top. However, like in Denver today, Orton is benefiting from playing with a good defense. Cutler was 20-2 when the Defense held teams to 21 points or leass.

That's likely the average for all QBs.

rastaman
10-17-2009, 11:46 AM
Oh yea, I'm already hearing the excuses about his defense, etc.

Hilarious!

Sounds very familiar, huh?

Stay tuned. This should be fun. I'm not sure what will be more fun... watching the Bears fans turn on him or the Jay-Gays around here imploding.

Hi Nostradamus...there may be a few cracks in your crystal ball. :rofl:

BroncoBuff
10-17-2009, 11:51 AM
Hi Nostradamus...there may be a few cracks in your crystal ball. :rofl:

No kidding, that's a weird theory. There's no reasonable line of thinking that would predict Jay "imploding." There's every reason and then some to believe he'll get better as his career progresses.

baja
10-17-2009, 11:58 AM
No kidding, that's a weird theory. There's no reasonable line of thinking that would predict Jay "imploding." There's every reason and then some to believe he'll get better as his career progresses.

I thought you were of the mind it didn't matter in fact you have admonished many here for bringing up the very name of Jay Cutler.

BroncoBuff
10-17-2009, 12:08 PM
I thought you were of the mind it didn't matter in fact you have admonished many here for bringing up the very name of Jay Cutler.

Just responding, pal. Just responding.

The Jay-hating is pretty interesting to watch ... kinda like watching the baboon exhibit at the Seattle Zoo.

Bronco Yoda
10-17-2009, 12:09 PM
AFC player of the week goes beyond just simply "benefiting from a good defense"

Orton isnt a world beater, but he is still pretty good

BTW Orton's record when his defense holds to 21 points is quite impressive as well

Cutler was 11-0 when Vandy scored more points than they gave... of course Cutler was 11-34 record as a starter at Vandy in the real world.

Cutler was 2-0 in 2006 when the Broncos scored more points than they gave... of course he was really 2-3 as a starter in the real world.

Cutler was 7-0 in 2007 when the Broncos scored more points than they gave... of course he was really 7-9 as a starter in the real world.

Cutler was 8-0 in 2008 when the Broncos scored more points than they gave... of course he was really 8-8 as a starter in the real world.

isn't this fun.... ;D


So in College and with Denver Cutler was an AMAZING 28-0 when his team scored more points than they gave!!!! WOW!

of course in the real world .... well you know where this is heading right....... Cutler was a whopping 28-52 @ Vancy and Denver :giggle:

...He was however 16-0 when he wore pink panties instead of a jock (ok, I made that one up)

Miss I.
10-17-2009, 12:11 PM
No. I still think you follow me around too much :~ohyah!:

:spit:

BroncoBuff
10-17-2009, 12:23 PM
Putting W-L records on quarterbacks is kinda lame .... we've had a much better defense this year than they have.

baja
10-17-2009, 12:23 PM
Just responding, pal. Just responding.

The Jay-hating is pretty interesting to watch ... kinda like watching the baboon exhibit at the Seattle Zoo.

I can't think of one person here that hates jay Cutler, it's just nobody loves him as much as you do so it looks like hate in comparison.

BroncoBuff
10-17-2009, 12:25 PM
I can't think of one person here that hates jay Cutler.
Bizarre .... you just must not be paying attention then.

Maybe check out the 800-post thread on his first Bears game against Green Bay. that'd be a good place to start.

baja
10-17-2009, 12:31 PM
Bizarre .... you just must not be paying attention then.

Maybe check out the 800-post thread on his first Bears game against Green Bay. that'd be a good place to start.

I'm serious I can not think of one poster here that hates Jay Cutler.

rastaman
10-17-2009, 12:32 PM
AFC player of the week goes beyond just simply "benefiting from a good defense"

Orton isnt a world beater, but he is still pretty good

BTW Orton's record when his defense holds to 21 points is quite impressive as well

Again, Iíd rather have Cutler. Heís put up numbers that are almost as impressive as Ortonís, and heís done it with far less talent. Not to disrespect Devin Hester, Earl Bennett and Johnny Knox. Theyíve played extremely well, but Cutler has made them better beyond any shadow of doubt.

Brandon Marshall is an absolute beast, and he has made Orton better than he ever was in Chicago. Heís still not as good as Cutler, but Ortonís team is 5-0.

Orton is now 26-12 as a starter, which is kinda Brady-like. Cutler remains 20-21 after the off week. However, let's remember Cutler is 20-2 when opposing teams are held to 21 or less points.

The stats are pretty close, and are all outstanding. Orton actually threw his first interception of the season last week. He was picked off by Randy Moss, who was in the game to provide an extra pair of hands and help defend a Hail Mary pass at the end of the first half. And Brandon batted down a Orton pass that would have been intercepted. So Kyle continues to have Angels on his shoulders as well as Lady Luck. But then again, Cutler has had luck come his way as well.

After five weeks, Orton is 10th in the NFL with a passer rating of 97.4 with 7 TD passes and just 1 pick. Cutler is 14th at 89.4, and heís got 8 TD passes and 5 interceptions. Starting with the second half of the season opener against the Packers, Cutler has 8 TD passes and 2 interceptions.

Cutler and Orton have been sacked eight times, although Orton has played one more game. Cutler has completed 64.3 percent of his passes, while Orton is at 63.0. However, Cutler has shown that he's a threat with his running ability and leads Orton in running yards and TD's running.

I will repeat, Orton is having an outstanding season, even though his stats are due to the direct presents and talents of Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, a solid offensive line and a defense that has been phenomenal so far.

But Jayís the better QB IMHO.

Inkana7
10-17-2009, 12:35 PM
No. I still think you follow me around too much :~ohyah!:

Buff, when you post in just about every thread, quote yourself, gloat about when you were right, and basically throw around every opinion under the sun, you could argue that everyone follows you around.

rastaman
10-17-2009, 12:37 PM
I'm serious I can not think of one poster here that hates Jay Cutler.

Couldn't agree with you more! When Bowlen sells the Broncos, he will probably sell the team to Cutler and say proudly..."This Ones for Jay"!!ROFL!

baja
10-17-2009, 12:43 PM
Buff, when you post in just about every thread, quote yourself, gloat about when you were right, and basically throw around every opinion under the sun, you could argue that everyone follows you around.

That's gonna leave a mark.

Br0nc0Buster
10-17-2009, 12:54 PM
Again, Iíd rather have Cutler. Heís put up numbers that are almost as impressive as Ortonís, and heís done it with far less talent. Not to disrespect Devin Hester, Earl Bennett and Johnny Knox. Theyíve played extremely well, but Cutler has made them better beyond any shadow of doubt.

Brandon Marshall is an absolute beast, and he has made Orton better than he ever was in Chicago. Heís still not as good as Cutler, but Ortonís team is 5-0.

Orton is now 26-12 as a starter, which is kinda Brady-like. Cutler remains 20-21 after the off week. However, let's remember Cutler is 20-2 when opposing teams are held to 21 or less points.

The stats are pretty close, and are all outstanding. Orton actually threw his first interception of the season last week. He was picked off by Randy Moss, who was in the game to provide an extra pair of hands and help defend a Hail Mary pass at the end of the first half. And Brandon batted down a Orton pass that would have been intercepted. So Kyle continues to have Angels on his shoulders as well as Lady Luck. But then again, Cutler has had luck come his way as well.

After five weeks, Orton is 10th in the NFL with a passer rating of 97.4 with 7 TD passes and just 1 pick. Cutler is 14th at 89.4, and heís got 8 TD passes and 5 interceptions. Starting with the second half of the season opener against the Packers, Cutler has 8 TD passes and 2 interceptions.

Cutler and Orton have been sacked eight times, although Orton has played one more game. Cutler has completed 64.3 percent of his passes, while Orton is at 63.0. However, Cutler has shown that he's a threat with his running ability and leads Orton in running yards and TD's running.

I will repeat, Orton is having an outstanding season, even though his stats are due to the direct presents and talents of Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, a solid offensive line and a defense that has been phenomenal so far.

But Jayís the better QB IMHO.

I would rather have Cutler as well, but Orton's success is not just because of Brandon Marshall

Look at his stats pre ankle injury last year
He was playing quite well

rastaman
10-17-2009, 12:57 PM
I would rather have Cutler as well, but Orton's success is not just because of Brandon Marshall

Look at his stats pre ankle injury last year
He was playing quite well

Rep!

HAT
10-17-2009, 01:35 PM
Again, Iíd rather have Cutler.

I would rather have Cutler as well, l

This is actually a very good poll topic...

Not whether or not you agreed with the trade when it came down....

But as of today:
Would you want Cutler back plus the Bears 2010 5th if the price was...Orton + Denver's 2010 1st (via Chicago) + Denver's 2010 3rd + Denver's 2011 1st?

Well....How about it then?

TonyR
10-17-2009, 01:37 PM
No kidding, that's a weird theory. There's no reasonable line of thinking that would predict Jay "imploding." There's every reason and then some to believe he'll get better as his career progresses.

Buff, are you sure you want to hitch your wagon to Jay Cutler and rastaman? Because you're fast gaining a rep around here for doing just that. And I'm not sure that really what you want, but to each his own I suppose...

baja
10-17-2009, 01:38 PM
waiting for the poll...

HAT
10-17-2009, 01:43 PM
I don't know how to make them Baja....Bust it out.

And make it public!

Miss I.
10-17-2009, 01:58 PM
Would you people stop busting your polls out in public please! ;D

HEAV
10-17-2009, 03:31 PM
I agree with BB. The system fits both players very well and Orton's skill set in particular is a nice compliment to what McDaniels wants to do.

And I also agree that I wouldn't trade Orton and two firsts for Cutler - especially if it meant we got Cutler all pissy all the time.

When the trade first went dow I was like "Well at least we got two first rounders" Like many fans, I felt Orton was a quick plug-stop gap. But after watcjing some of his games and see him run the shotgun in collge I started to change my mind.

Now I wasn't thinking he would be this succesfull. I felt he would have some down games and in the preason he did have a few. But seeing him move the team up and down the field against the 49ers made me think this guy could be decent here.

Not to mention that McDaniels has proven to be a great coach (with QB's) and he's done a great job with Orton in the months leading up to the season.

What I now see is a good quarterback on a good team. I see a player that wants to be here and is a leader of the offense.

Orton Two #1's for Cutler. It's clearly sweet deal for Denver at this point.

Bronx33
10-17-2009, 03:52 PM
Jay didn't want to be here ( jay is gone)

Here is a cute puppy

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7964/cutepuppye.jpg

nuff said...

broncocalijohn
10-17-2009, 03:53 PM
It must be miserable living with yourself....so much hate, stupidity and narrow-mindedness.

He didnt just say that, did he?

Bronco Yoda
10-17-2009, 04:18 PM
Jay didn't want to be here ( jay is gone)

Here is a cute puppy

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7964/cutepuppye.jpg

nuff said...

that really is a cute puppy... but I'm not changing my mind about the whole puppy thing. I'll be left cleaning up after it not the kids... I don't care how many promises are made.

broncocalijohn
10-17-2009, 04:26 PM
Just responding, pal. Just responding.

The Jay-hating is pretty interesting to watch ... kinda like watching the baboon exhibit at the Seattle Zoo.

baboons throw less picks in crucial times and they always call their boss when asked to.:giggle:

TotallyScrewed
10-17-2009, 04:51 PM
go drown yourself please

Did I twist your tittie??

Poor baby.

gunns
10-17-2009, 04:54 PM
Did you really read any of it??

Glowing praise for Cutler...apologist???

So many around here keep bringing it up as if somehow the trade could turn out to be a great trade for Denver. It's not never going to go Denver's way because Orton is what he is...a game manager, limited player and Cutler is huge talent and BTW, playing great for Chicago, which is asking him to be a game manager too.

Denver traded Cutler because they felt they had no choice and got the best they could get for him, or that they could find, in that short period of time. When you do that, getting the best end of the deal doesn't happen...EVER. Sheesh people, REALITY CHECK!

Orton is what he is. When have we seen Orton throw a great pass? He doesn't and that's why there's no comparison.

I was one that didn't particularly like Cutlers personality, but was hopeful he could take us to the promised land. When the trade came down I wasn't pleased but not necessarily because of Orton. I've never wished Cutler bad luck. I figured if we could get our defense playing better Orton would be better as what we needed was someone to manage the game while our D did their part. That has happened. I'll take Ortons game management skills over Cutlers ego and narcissim any day.

broncocalijohn
10-17-2009, 04:54 PM
Bizarre .... you just must not be paying attention then.

Maybe check out the 800-post thread on his first Bears game against Green Bay. that'd be a good place to start.

that was all about a better draft pick. It is now the Bears = The Raiders/Chargers/Chiefs in hate. We need them to lose. I never liked him and close to hate but Orton has relieved me of a ton of hatred. In fact, not too many talking about Cutler much either because of our success or Jay's success.

tsiguy96
10-17-2009, 04:55 PM
almost feel bad for orton. when he wins, its because of everyone else. when he loses, its his fault.

cutler on the other hand is the exact opposite. media perceptions are awfully wrong.

gunns
10-17-2009, 04:56 PM
Buff, are you sure you want to hitch your wagon to Jay Cutler and rastaman? Because you're fast gaining a rep around here for doing just that. And I'm not sure that really what you want, but to each his own I suppose...

Hmmm, not speaking for Buff, but I'll take his overall rep over yours any day.

TotallyScrewed
10-17-2009, 04:56 PM
hey negative nancy

did you see the game last week ?

a 90 yard td drive

and a 98 yard td drive, as well as a joke of "got them right where we want them"

player of the week

and your still gonna complain

All I said was Orton is what he is...a game manager. Where are the perfect and insane passes??

I do think Orton is throwing better now without the glove but I still haven't see the passes that make a good or great QB.

We'll see how it shakes out but to keep hoping to see Cutler fail as some sort of vindication that Denver's FO made out in this trade is whistling in the dark.

TotallyScrewed
10-17-2009, 04:59 PM
Stupid post.

Excellent rebutal. I expected so much more...oh well.

tsiguy96
10-17-2009, 05:00 PM
All I said was Orton is what he is...a game manager. Where are the perfect and insane passes??

I do think Orton is throwing better now without the glove but I still haven't see the passes that make a good or great QB.

We'll see how it shakes out but to keep hoping to see Cutler fail as some sort of vindication that Denver's FO made out in this trade is whistling in the dark.

perfect and insane passes, are you looking for cutler bombs downfield? not gonna get many of them, this offense isnt built on that. look at matt cassel last year, won 11 games throwing 5-10 yard passes all year long. being smart and accurate (i.e peyton manning) is what wins game. peyton just has the ability to find and hit the best receiver on any given play, be it deep or not, he makes smart decisions. thats what wins football, not deep bombs oakland raiders style.

rastaman
10-17-2009, 05:20 PM
perfect and insane passes, are you looking for cutler bombs downfield? not gonna get many of them, this offense isnt built on that. look at matt cassel last year, won 11 games throwing 5-10 yard passes all year long. being smart and accurate (i.e peyton manning) is what wins game. peyton just has the ability to find and hit the best receiver on any given play, be it deep or not, he makes smart decisions. thats what wins football, not deep bombs oakland raiders style.

You don't win games throwing bombs......until you win games throwing bombs! Point is, given the right talent at Wr, having the right offensive schemes, the QB thats given time and who can get the ball down field, and the team that has a robust running attack! Throwing Bombs down the field can work, will win games, and keep opposing DC up all night trying to defense against it!

TotallyScrewed
10-17-2009, 05:20 PM
perfect and insane passes, are you looking for cutler bombs downfield? not gonna get many of them, this offense isnt built on that. look at matt cassel last year, won 11 games throwing 5-10 yard passes all year long. being smart and accurate (i.e peyton manning) is what wins game. peyton just has the ability to find and hit the best receiver on any given play, be it deep or not, he makes smart decisions. thats what wins football, not deep bombs oakland raiders style.

How did you get to "deep bombs"?

What I'm saying is that Orton doesn't hit his receivers in stride and right on the numbers. His passes are wide, low, too high or behind BUT the receivers in Denver (not just Marshall) are making plays. Whether that's Stokes, concentrating on a tip and showing great hands and poise or Scheffler grabbing a ball one handed or Royal digging out low passes or Marshall jumping over the top of the defender to make the reception.

I just want Orton to start hitting them in stride before I say he's a good QB.

rastaman
10-17-2009, 05:22 PM
Well....How about it then?

How about what!

baja
10-17-2009, 05:25 PM
Did you really read any of it??

Glowing praise for Cutler...apologist???

So many around here keep bringing it up as if somehow the trade could turn out to be a great trade for Denver. It's not never going to go Denver's way because Orton is what he is...a game manager, limited player and Cutler is huge talent and BTW, playing great for Chicago, which is asking him to be a game manager too.

Denver traded Cutler because they felt they had no choice and got the best they could get for him, or that they could find, in that short period of time. When you do that, getting the best end of the deal doesn't happen...EVER. Sheesh people, REALITY CHECK!

Orton is what he is. <b> When have we seen Orton throw a great pass? He doesn't and that's why there's no comparison.

You should watch the NE @ Denver you obviously didn't because of your claim that I bolded. I can only assume you don't watch the games because of your statement.

PS the games are played usually on Sunday in case you didn't know.

TotallyScrewed
10-17-2009, 05:29 PM
You don't win games throwing bombs......until you win games throwing bombs! Point is, given the right talent at Wr, having the right offensive schemes, the QB thats given time and who can get the ball down field, and the team that has a robust running attack! Throwing Bombs down the field can work, will win games, and keep opposing DC up all night trying to defense against it!

I'm redirecting here...

But just look at the bomb at the end of the first half of the New England victory.

Randy Moss made the interception. You could see in Orton face and body language that he didn't like the play calling there. And I don't blame him. That was totally a prayer to a clay god. Why didn't they call for a deep comeback? Hasn't Royal and Marshall shown the ability to run after the catch??

Again, I'm not saying Orton has to throw bombs. Typically, they're not very successful in the pro game.

broncocalijohn
10-17-2009, 05:30 PM
You should watch the NE @ Denver you obviously didn't because of your claim that I bolded. I can only assume you don't watch the games because of your statement.

PS the games are played usually on Sunday in case you didn't know.

looks like we have a new guy to take up for Lex as retard of the mane. Damn Totallyscrewed. Better when we barely knew ya.

TonyR
10-17-2009, 06:18 PM
...I'll take his overall rep over yours any day.

Oh? And what would my rep be that would prompt you to make such a comment?

tsiguy96
10-17-2009, 06:21 PM
How did you get to "deep bombs"?

What I'm saying is that Orton doesn't hit his receivers in stride and right on the numbers. His passes are wide, low, too high or behind BUT the receivers in Denver (not just Marshall) are making plays. Whether that's Stokes, concentrating on a tip and showing great hands and poise or Scheffler grabbing a ball one handed or Royal digging out low passes or Marshall jumping over the top of the defender to make the reception.

I just want Orton to start hitting them in stride before I say he's a good QB.

again, orton gets no credit for winning, and all the credit for losing. forgetting the fact his completion percentage is great so far and that if you didnt actually watch the pats game you might know what you are talking about...

TotallyScrewed
10-17-2009, 06:25 PM
You should watch the NE @ Denver you obviously didn't because of your claim that I bolded. I can only assume you don't watch the games because of your statement.

PS the games are played usually on Sunday in case you didn't know.

Because I'm often wrong and I think you're knowledgeable (and sarcastic!)...

I rewatched the first half of the Patriots game. I'll apologize to Orton. He played really quite good. About 1/3 to half of his passes were to wide open receivers but they were on target. The rest of his passes were to guys that were partially in traffic and they were mostly on target. A couple were high or wide but the vast majority were on target.

I was wrong.

BroncoInSkinland
10-17-2009, 06:29 PM
Long term it maybe the Bears getting Cutler will have the edge. Cutler has has shown what he can do with inferior players and managed to win despite having a weaker O line, weaker WR's sets, and a defense thats on decline and injured. Cutler's amazing arm strength and his ability to strike quick to go along with his gritty leadership and threat of running well enough to score in the red zone; shows the Bears players they're never out of any games.

Despite Orton's performance thus far, he's still a high maintenance-encubator type QB. He's needs a great defense, great Wr's, great offensive line, great scheme-system in order to be good. Had Mike Nolan not come in and turned the Defense around, Orton record as a Bronco starting QB would not be 5-0. But lets take nothing away from Orton he's taken advantage of the excellent opportinuty to make sure he's steering his team to victory so long his defense keeps the games close enough to win in the 4th quarter.

Long term you may be right, Cutler IMO is one hell of a talent, if he can get his head screwed on right I think he can be something special. I was one of the biggest advocates of his ability, and allowed it to color my judgment on some other aspects of this team when McDaniels was forced to trade him. Without significant evidence to the contrary, I will support the point that Cutler has better skills vehemently. What he didn't have is the ability to lead this team the way McDaniels wanted him too. You can argue who was at fault but it doesn't change the fact that it wasn't going to happen. End of story right there. The trade was necessary, so we did it.

As to your other point, my point is that we have some of those greats you mentioned, and the ability to draft players to ensure we keep them for years to come, due partially to the trade and the picks that resulted. Further we now have those great elements in place, and we aren't tied down to a single player who holds the team hostage on the strength of his arm. If Orton turns out to be "the guy" (which, from what we are seeing of him in orange and blue so far he might be), awesome, one problem solved before it begins. If not, we draft to replace him and move forward with a better team overall, and manage to stay competitive in the meantime. It is a win/win.

BroncoBuff
10-17-2009, 06:46 PM
Hmmm, not speaking for Buff, but I'll take his overall rep over yours any day.

Thank you ... it seemed funny TonyR saying that. :~ohyah!:

BroncoBuff
10-17-2009, 06:47 PM
Oh? And what would my rep be that would prompt you to make such a comment?

Dude, don't even ... :nono:

My best advice is like I tell everyone: Don't be threatened by different opinions, and especially don't lash out at those who disagree with you. It's a weakness.

TonyR
10-17-2009, 07:00 PM
... it seemed funny TonyR saying that.

You think it's "funny" that I'd suggest not constantly going to bat for perhaps the Mane's least favorite player and least favorite poster? Really? The only thing "funny" here is that you don't even see what you're doing! And as long as you have posters like "gunns" enabling you you probably won't.

Spider
10-17-2009, 07:04 PM
meh ...... we screwed the Bears .......... end of story

BroncoBuff
10-17-2009, 07:11 PM
You think it's "funny" that I'd suggest not constantly going to bat for perhaps the Mane's least favorite player and least favorite poster? Really? The only thing "funny" here is that you don't even see what you're doing! And as long as you have posters like "gunns" enabling you you probably won't.

I'm just saying I don't think you're aware of what your rep is here.

And more troubling is, what's wrong with agreeing with rasta, gunns or even you? Unlike yourself, I damn sure don't conform my opinions to what anybody else thinks. I've even agreed with my arch-enemy a handful of times lately. It's called "subtance over form," you should try it. It might be a real character builder for you.

Archer81
10-17-2009, 07:15 PM
I'm just saying I don't think you're aware of what your rep is here.

And more troubling is, what's wrong with agreeing with rasta, gunns or even you? Unlike yourself, I damn sure don't conform my opinions to what anybody else thinks. I've even agreed with my arch-enemy a handful of times lately. It's called "subtance over form," you should try it. It might be a real character builder for you.


I'm flattered. LOL


:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
10-17-2009, 07:16 PM
meh ...... we screwed the Bears .......... end of story

Unlike most people who stubbornly say "Alphonso is not the pick we got for Jay, we have to wait to see." I disagree with that. When we traded for Alphonso, 1) We didn't know where either of the #1's would land (still don't), and 2) We wouldn't have made the trade had we not had the extra #1 ... so basically, we got Alphonso because we had the extra pick to work with.

So the trade to me is: Orton+Ayers+Alphonso+half-of-Quinn for Cutler and Knox.

It's a draw right now, but the future looks brighter for our side. Ayers is already playing on crucial downs, Orton is near-flawless, and the sky is the limit for Alphonso.

BroncoBuff
10-17-2009, 07:19 PM
I'm flattered. LOL

:Broncos:
Sorry to disappoint you, but your 2nd on my list of Arch-enemys.

I wonder if you can guess who's number one? :wiggle:


Hey Chris, at night do you leave your car unlocked with the keys in the ignition and gas in your tank?

TonyR
10-17-2009, 07:21 PM
Unlike yourself, I damn sure don't conform my opinions to what anybody else thinks.

Clearly. Your opinions and positions are all over the place, changing both inter and intra post. It's not like I'm the only one noticing this, it's been mentioned in other threads by more than one person just today as a matter of fact.

And it's hilarious that you think you have some consensus of what the general opinion about me is and that I'm supposed to care. You've been battered in multiple threads lately and I'm the one with the bad rep? Too funny, Buff!

tsiguy96
10-17-2009, 07:21 PM
Unlike most people who stubbornly say "Alphonso is not the pick we got for Jay, we have to wait to see." I disagree with that. When we traded for Alphonso, 1) We didn't know where either of the #1's would land (still don't), and 2) We wouldn't have made the trade had we not had the extra #1 ... so basically, we got Alphonso because we had the extra pick to work with.

So the trade to me is: Orton+Ayers+Alphonso+half-of-Quinn for Cutler and Knox.

It's a draw right now, but the future looks brighter for our side. Ayers is already playing on crucial downs, Orton is near-flawless, and the sky is the limit for Alphonso.

but...its not the pick we got for jay. whos to say we wouldnt trade our own 1st for him even if we only had one, the team obviously saw enough value in him to trade for him at all, they may have done it with just their first.

the pick we got for jay is still our first rounder next year.

Archer81
10-17-2009, 07:21 PM
Sorry to disappoint you, but your 2nd on my list of Arch-enemys.

I wonder if you can guess who's number one? :wiggle:


Hey Chris, do you leave the keys in your car and gas in your tank at night?


No. But you can take the keys out of the ignition while the car is running. I am fairly sure you can start it with a butter knife.

:Broncos:

SonOfLe-loLang
10-17-2009, 07:22 PM
I actually agree with this. It's still very early but it looks to me like we won this trade.

Although there's gotta be SOME negatives with Orton ... Bears fans hated him and he was benched numerous times.

If it's possible, I think both teams won this trade, so far. Johnny Knox has been HUGE for them.

Where are these numerous times? He was benched after he led them to 8 wins in his rookie season...and i think thats the last time he was benched? He didnt win the job over grossman/griese, but i seriously doubt he was given an opportunity to actually do so.

BroncoBuff
10-17-2009, 07:22 PM
No. But you can take the keys out of the ignition while the car is running. I am fairly sure you can start it with a butter knife.

:Broncos:

I see ...

Well, your neighbors do. I saw it on 60 Minutes.

BroncoBuff
10-17-2009, 07:24 PM
Where are these numerous times? He was benched after he led them to 8 wins in his rookie season...and i think thats the last time he was benched? He didnt win the job over grossman/griese, but i seriously doubt he was given an opportunity to actually do so.

Well, at least twice. Actually I think twice for Grossman, once for Griese. And the Bears were never high on him, especially the fans. Surprised you disagree.

But who cares? He's twice the quarterback now than those two put together.

TheReverend
10-17-2009, 07:30 PM
5 star thread.

Archer81
10-17-2009, 07:31 PM
I see ...

Well, your neighbors do. I saw it on 60 Minutes.


If they do they are some dumb people. We live a mile from the supermax prison.


:Broncos:

Spider
10-17-2009, 07:56 PM
Unlike most people who stubbornly say "Alphonso is not the pick we got for Jay, we have to wait to see." I disagree with that. When we traded for Alphonso, 1) We didn't know where either of the #1's would land (still don't), and 2) We wouldn't have made the trade had we not had the extra #1 ... so basically, we got Alphonso because we had the extra pick to work with.

So the trade to me is: Orton+Ayers+Alphonso+half-of-Quinn for Cutler and Knox.

It's a draw right now, but the future looks brighter for our side. Ayers is already playing on crucial downs, Orton is near-flawless, and the sky is the limit for Alphonso.

;D .......I disagree about the draw thing ......any time u get a Qb that protects the ball in the red zone ......you are several steps ahead

Bronco Yoda
10-17-2009, 08:59 PM
Well, at least twice. Actually I think twice for Grossman, once for Griese. And the Bears were never high on him, especially the fans. Surprised you disagree.

But who cares? He's twice the quarterback now than those two put together.

Chicago is one of the last places to appreciate, groom and develope QB's. There's more to being a QB than having a strong arm.

My first cousin was drafted in the 80's by the Boston Red Sox in the first round. He threw in the 90's in High School. No... that's not a typo. Could have went to any college in the country but his dumb ass stage-dad pushed him to go pro early. To make a long and tragic stroy short... things didn't work out. Last time I heard he was deliving medical supplies or something. I'm sure he could still throw a rock through a brick wall... but there's more to being a QB or pitcher than a strong arm. What's between your ears and in your heart IMO counts for even more. I've seen this first hand up close and personal.

Cutler needs to grow up and develop his talents or he won't last in this league. Not sure Chicago will do that for him.

Los Broncos
10-17-2009, 09:15 PM
He'll cheer for Cutler and the Bears now?

What a ****ing pussy!

Popps
10-17-2009, 09:43 PM
Anyway... let's get back to the topic at hand about how ****ed we are to have the Bear's draft pick next year and not our own... right?

That's all I heard all off-season.

Let's talk about that some more...

Williams
10-17-2009, 10:33 PM
Chicago is one of the last places to appreciate, groom and develope QB's. There's more to being a QB than having a strong arm.

My first cousin was drafted in the 80's by the Boston Red Sox in the first round. He threw in the 90's in High School. No... that's not a typo. Could have went to any college in the country but his dumb ass stage-dad pushed him to go pro early. To make a long and tragic stroy short... things didn't work out. Last time I heard he was deliving medical supplies or something. I'm sure he could still throw a rock through a brick wall... but there's more to being a QB or pitcher than a strong arm. What's between your ears and in your heart IMO counts for even more.

Cutler needs to grow up and develop his talents or he won't last in this league. Not sure Chicago will do that for him.

The great irony is Cutler's best opportunity to develop into an elite QB was right here under McDaniels. That opportunity was squandered by his childish tantrum and ego, taken up by Orton, and the Broncos are all the better for it.

Good post, by the way.

baja
10-17-2009, 10:39 PM
The great irony is Cutler's best opportunity to develop into an elite QB was right here under McDaniels. That opportunity was squandered by his childish tantrum and ego, taken up by Orton, and the Broncos are all the better for it.

Good post, by the way.

I bet he knows it too. Cutler that is.

Bronco Yoda
10-17-2009, 10:53 PM
Perhaps...but maybe not.

These physical freaks live in a different world than you and I. I witnessed some of it close up first hand. The way people kiss their ass 24/7, the boated ego and self worth that comes from this. Lets just say that self awareness isn't usually in the equation.

IMO, all but for the rarest of circumstances, an argument could be made that it's almost better to be really gifted but not a freak. The gifted ones still have to develop skills that will better themselves later on... unlike the physical freaks who too often coast through the lower levels of athletics with sheer brute skill. Then when they're at the highest level where other skills are needed as well things don't go so well and bad habits have already set in.

KipCorrington25
10-17-2009, 10:59 PM
Chris Chandler

or

Jeff George

baja
10-17-2009, 11:07 PM
Perhaps...but maybe not.

These physical freaks live in a different world than you and I. I witnessed some of it close up first hand. The way people kiss their ass 24/7, the boated ego and self worth that comes from this. Lets just say that self awareness isn't usually in the equation.

IMO, all but for the rarest of circumstances, an argument could be made that it's almost better to be really gifted but not a freak. The gifted ones still have to develop skills that will better themselves later on... unlike the physical freaks who too often coast through the lower levels of athletics with sheer brute skill. Then when they're at the highest level where other skills are needed as well things don't go so well and bad habits have already set in.

That's an excellent point. Humility is a virtue for a reason.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-17-2009, 11:27 PM
Well, at least twice. Actually I think twice for Grossman, once for Griese. And the Bears were never high on him, especially the fans. Surprised you disagree.

But who cares? He's twice the quarterback now than those two put together.

According to his stats, this doesnt seem to be the case. He was benched for grossman his rookie year. He didnt play his second year...and started the last three games of the season his third. Then played a full season as the starter in the 4th (cept for the games he was injured). So ummm, im counting once.

And bears fans never hated orton. He might have been a pedestrian QB, but they liked him for the same reasons we do. he wins and doesnt make mistakes. Now, they HATED Rex

errand
10-18-2009, 03:07 AM
It must be miserable living with yourself....so much hate, stupidity and narrow-mindedness.

..you mean like the kind of hate you have for Bowlen, Orton, and McDaniels...and practically anything that isn't Brandon Marshall?

...you mean the kind of stupidity you posted about the direction this team is going?

....you mean the kind of narrow-mindedness that you've exhibited in your posts about the way players in the NFL are compensated?

You do realize you've not been right on any of these issues don't you?

It must be miserable to be you every day after a Broncos win.

errand
10-18-2009, 03:26 AM
Did you really read any of it??

Glowing praise for Cutler...apologist???

So many around here keep bringing it up as if somehow the trade could turn out to be a great trade for Denver. It's not never going to go Denver's way because Orton is what he is...a game manager, limited player and Cutler is huge talent and BTW, playing great for Chicago, which is asking him to be a game manager too.

Denver traded Cutler because they felt they had no choice and got the best they could get for him, or that they could find, in that short period of time. When you do that, getting the best end of the deal doesn't happen...EVER. Sheesh people, REALITY CHECK!

Orton is what he is. When have we seen Orton throw a great pass? He doesn't and that's why there's no comparison.

Well, that's the difference between those on one side and you guys on the other....we don't care about pretty passes, we care about winning football games....

I bet that 26-12 record of Orton's and that 5-0 record of McDaniels really pissses off the likes of you guys

errand
10-18-2009, 03:35 AM
So many around here keep bringing it up as if somehow the trade could turn out to be a great trade for Denver. It's not never going to go Denver's way because Orton is what he is...a game manager, limited player and Cutler is huge talent and BTW, playing great for Chicago, which is asking him to be a game manager too.

Orton is what he is. When have we seen Orton throw a great pass? He doesn't and that's why there's no comparison.

Kyle Orton for his career has 27 TD's and only 2 INT's in opponent's red zone....Jay Cutler had 7 turnovers in opponent's red zone last season alone...so i guess you're finally right...

There is no comparison

errand
10-18-2009, 03:40 AM
I actually agree with this. It's still very early but it looks to me like we won this trade.

Although there's gotta be SOME negatives with Orton ... Bears fans hated him and he was benched numerous times.

If it's possible, I think both teams won this trade, so far. Johnny Knox has been HUGE for them.

They hated him because like alot of so-called experts on here...they wanted him to win with pizzazz, throw a prettier pass, and have a cannon for an arm. They never looked at his reults, which was 21-12 as their starter with one division title as well.

errand
10-18-2009, 03:42 AM
This is actually a very good poll topic....Get on it Baja.

Not whether or not you agreed with the trade when it came down....

But as of today:
Would you want Cutler back plus the Bears 2010 5th if the price was...Orton + Denver's 2010 1st (via Chicago) + Denver's 2010 3rd + Denver's 2011 1st?

Yeah, but you'd also have to throw in the current results on 2009 season as well.....

errand
10-18-2009, 03:46 AM
He was benched numerous times because he had bad receivers and a less-than-impressive offensive line. Plus, Lovie really wanted Rex Grossman to be the starter. He gave Rex every opportunity to keep that job. Fast forward to today. Orton has one of the of the best offensive lines in football protecting him and a ton of offensive weapons. Therefore, you can finally see Orton's true potential as a quarterback...

...and while Grossman did help deliver a conference championship he was a roller coaster ride that eventually hurt Chicago's chances of contending for awhile. such is the case when you make judgements based on a player's potential vs bottom line results. Grossman had a pretty good arm as well...but he turned out to be the square peg Lovie tried to shove into the round hole.

errand
10-18-2009, 03:50 AM
Had Mike Nolan not come in and turned the Defense around, Orton record as a Bronco starting QB would not be 5-0. But lets take nothing away from Orton he's taken advantage of the excellent opportinuty to make sure he's steering his team to victory so long his defense keeps the games close enough to win in the 4th quarter.

OK, so which is it that has led to our 5-0 start...the OL and Wr's mike stocked us with the past few seasons, or that mike nolan has turned the d into a respectable one? You're excuses for discounting Orton's contributions are running out you know.....

errand
10-18-2009, 03:52 AM
Perhaps "great" is a little over the top. However, like in Denver today, Orton is benefiting from playing with a good defense. Cutler was 20-2 when the Defense held teams to 21 points or leass.

...and Orton is 26-12 regardless of what the defense does.

errand
10-18-2009, 03:54 AM
No kidding, that's a weird theory. There's no reasonable line of thinking that would predict Jay "imploding." There's every reason and then some to believe he'll get better as his career progresses.

He didn't say that Jay Cutler would implode...he said you and your cronies would.

errand
10-18-2009, 03:57 AM
Putting W-L records on quarterbacks is kinda lame .... we've had a much better defense this year than they have.

.....hopefully you'll remember this post when you're touting how Elway won all those games by himself.

errand
10-18-2009, 04:07 AM
Again, Iíd rather have Cutler. Heís put up numbers that are almost as impressive as Ortonís, and heís done it with far less talent. Not to disrespect Devin Hester, Earl Bennett and Johnny Knox. Theyíve played extremely well, but Cutler has made them better beyond any shadow of doubt.

Brandon Marshall is an absolute beast, and he has made Orton better than he ever was in Chicago.

Heís still not as good as Cutler, but Ortonís team is 5-0.

Orton is now 26-12 as a starter, which is kinda Brady-like. Cutler remains 20-21 after the off week. However, let's remember Cutler is 20-2 when opposing teams are held to 21 or less points.

The stats are pretty close, and are all outstanding. Orton actually threw his first interception of the season last week. He was picked off by Randy Moss, who was in the game to provide an extra pair of hands and help defend a Hail Mary pass at the end of the first half. And Brandon batted down a Orton pass that would have been intercepted. So Kyle continues to have Angels on his shoulders as well as Lady Luck. But then again, Cutler has had luck come his way as well.

After five weeks, Orton is 10th in the NFL with a passer rating of 97.4 with 7 TD passes and just 1 pick.

Cutler is 14th at 89.4, and heís got 8 TD passes and 5 interceptions. Starting with the second half of the season opener against the Packers, Cutler has 8 TD passes and 2 interceptions.

Cutler and Orton have been sacked eight times, although Orton has played one more game.

Cutler has completed 64.3 percent of his passes, while Orton is at 63.0. However, Cutler has shown that he's a threat with his running ability and leads Orton in running yards and TD's running.

I will repeat, Orton is having an outstanding season, even though his stats are due to the direct presents and talents of Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, a solid offensive line and a defense that has been phenomenal so far.

But Jayís the better QB IMHO.

You know you sound like the employees who when referring to the co-worker who's always calling out sick due to being hungover "He does good work when he's here...."

I also love how you have to qualify all of Jay's accomplishments and stats...and go to great lengths to discount Orton's. You do realize the 1st half of the Green Bay games still counts in the NFL record books right? and that games hwere your D surrenders 22 or more points count as well right?

why do i suspect we'll soon see another qualified stat by you saying that Jay's never lost a game he didn't play in.

errand
10-18-2009, 04:10 AM
Would you people stop busting your polls out in public please! ;D

gotta love a woman with a great sense of humor...Hilarious!

errand
10-18-2009, 04:16 AM
All I said was Orton is what he is...a game manager. Where are the perfect and insane passes??

I do think Orton is throwing better now without the glove but I still haven't see the passes that make a good or great QB.



I guess guys like Jeff George are in your personal Hall of Fame, huh?

....what makes a great QB is winning games and titles.

Ask any QB that has won a championship if he'd trade them for glitzy stats.

And ask any QB that has put up tons of glitzy stats if they'd trade them for one championship.

errand
10-18-2009, 04:18 AM
PS the games are played usually on Sunday in case you didn't know.

...but, check your local listings for game times in your area.Hilarious!

errand
10-18-2009, 04:21 AM
Oh? And what would my rep be that would prompt you to make such a comment?

dont mind gunns...she's one of the :egbgb::egbgb::egbgb: ewey gooey girls :egbgb::egbgb::egbgb:, which in itself should be enough.

errand
10-18-2009, 04:23 AM
again, orton gets no credit for winning, and all the credit for losing.

...well in fairness, Orton hasn't lost a game as a Bronco yet....so we can't know what kind of credit he'd get.

errand
10-18-2009, 04:27 AM
About 1/3 to half of his passes were to wide open receivers but they were on target.

imagine that...a QB that throws to the open man....hmmm...hmmm...

errand
10-18-2009, 04:29 AM
Dude, don't even ... :nono:

My best advice is like I tell everyone: Don't be threatened by different opinions, and especially don't lash out at those who disagree with you. It's a weakness.

...and yet you're championing gunns take on tony R? Wasn't that her lashing out at him?

errand
10-18-2009, 04:36 AM
Where are these numerous times? He was benched after he led them to 8 wins in his rookie season...and i think thats the last time he was benched? He didnt win the job over grossman/griese, but i seriously doubt he was given an opportunity to actually do so.

Orton won 10 of his 15 starts as a rookie.....he helped Bears win division title that season. He played sparingly over the next two as Lovie force fed Grossman and got uneven play outta him at best. (he did help the Bears win NFC title game in '07)

When Lovie opened the QB position up to competition...Orton won the job.

I find it amazing how alot on here love overachievers like Larsen and Hillis, despite neither of them being Williams or Moreno in the talent department...but blast a guy like Orton for not being Jay.

errand
10-18-2009, 04:41 AM
Chris Chandler

or

Jeff George

One wona conference championship while the other got into a shouting match over being pulled for throwing a INT's in game. Boy, that's a tough one.........

errand
10-18-2009, 04:46 AM
Gee, an entire page of a thread with nothing but the greatest insights and humor on display. J/K

Miss I.
10-18-2009, 06:29 AM
dont mind gunns...she's one of the :egbgb: ewey gooey girls :egbgb:which in itself should be enough.

:curtsey::egbgb::egbgb: Hey biatch! You are just jealous our EGIBGB fabulousness. :egbgb::egbgb::curtsey:

elsid13
10-18-2009, 06:33 AM
:curtsey::egbgb::egbgb: Hey biatch! You are just jealous our EGIBGB fabulousness. :egbgb::egbgb::curtsey:

errand just wants to join you for tea and crumpets

baja
10-18-2009, 07:41 AM
Orton won 10 of his 15 starts as a rookie.....he helped Bears win division title that season. He played sparingly over the next two as Lovie force fed Grossman and got uneven play outta him at best. (he did help the Bears win NFC title game in '07)

When Lovie opened the QB position up to competition...Orton won the job.

<b>I find it amazing how alot on here love overachievers like Larsen and Hillis, despite neither of them being Williams or Moreno in the talent department...but blast a guy like Orton for not being Jay.

Weird isn't it!

errand
10-18-2009, 08:34 AM
Weird isn't it!

It is. i'm suprised that alot of people on here complain about him...when they should be rooting for him being the underdog. guys like Orton who seem to overcome so many obstacles should inspire people to root for them....but too many it seems fall in love with a tight spiral thrown at 65 mph instead of winning a game regardless of how your stats look in the beauty dept.

cutthemdown
10-18-2009, 08:39 AM
Errand is right. Bronco fans love blue collar, scrappy underdogs at every position except QB. Dude you just totally nailed the whole board.

TonyR
10-18-2009, 09:12 AM
...and yet you're championing gunns take on tony R? Wasn't that her lashing out at him?

Funny how that works, isn't it? Three cheers for hypocrisy!!!

baja
10-18-2009, 09:54 AM
It is. i'm suprised that alot of people on here complain about him...when they should be rooting for him being the underdog. guys like Orton who seem to overcome so many obstacles should inspire people to root for them....but too many it seems fall in love with a tight spiral thrown at 65 mph instead of winning a game regardless of how your stats look in the beauty dept.

I think it is all predicated on the belief by some that we gave away the next Elway and got Orton in return.

BroncoInferno
10-18-2009, 10:35 AM
Unlike most people who stubbornly say "Alphonso is not the pick we got for Jay, we have to wait to see." I disagree with that. When we traded for Alphonso, 1) We didn't know where either of the #1's would land (still don't), and 2) We wouldn't have made the trade had we not had the extra #1 ... so basically, we got Alphonso because we had the extra pick to work with.

So the trade to me is: Orton+Ayers+Alphonso+half-of-Quinn for Cutler and Knox.

It's a draw right now, but the future looks brighter for our side. Ayers is already playing on crucial downs, Orton is near-flawless, and the sky is the limit for Alphonso.

No, Buff. We traded our own 2010 1st rounder in exchange for Smith, so he does not count as part of the trade. Right now the trade stands as Orton-Ayers-Quinn (that deal was two 3rd for a 2nd and 4th, so I'll give it full credit instead of your half)-next years #1 for Cutler-Knox. Looks good for both sides right now. If Orton keeps playing like he has been and we hit on next years #1, it tips in our favor.

TheReverend
10-18-2009, 10:45 AM
No, Buff. We traded our own 2010 1st rounder in exchange for Smith, so he does not count as part of the trade. Right now the trade stands as Orton-Ayers-Quinn (that deal was two 3rd for a 2nd and 4th, so I'll give it full credit instead of your half)-next years #1 for Cutler-Knox. Looks good for both sides right now. If Orton keeps playing like he has been and we hit on next years #1, it tips in our favor.

I think he's projecting that without the extra 09 pick, we wouldn't have traded one for Smith, so this is a way to quantify the selection and trade early. There's sense to it.

BroncoInferno
10-18-2009, 10:49 AM
I think he's projecting that without the extra 09 pick, we wouldn't have traded one for Smith, so this is a way to quantify the selection and trade early. There's sense to it.

Yeah, I see that. He's probably right that that trade does not happen without the extra pick. That said, Chicago's 2010 pick was literally part of the trade, so you have to factor it in to any discussion of the trade. The ability to trade for Smith could be chalked up to an additional benefit of the trade in the added flexibility it gave us to make such a move. I don't know how you'd quantify that, though.

Popps
10-18-2009, 11:13 AM
He didn't say that Jay Cutler would implode...he said you and your cronies would.

Pretty funny to see how many people around here have hitched their wagon to this guy, and now are stuck with being pseudo-Bears fans the rest of their lives to try to prove a point.

Dagmar
10-18-2009, 11:15 AM
Pretty funny to see how many people around here have hitched their wagon to this guy, and now are stuck with being pseudo-Bears fans the rest of their lives to try to prove a point.
Sad, stubborn bastards. Me, I love the Broncos.

BroncoMan4ever
10-18-2009, 12:02 PM
Orton is what he is. When have we seen Orton throw a great pass? He doesn't and that's why there's no comparison.

did you watch against NE? 2 - 90+ yard drives for TDs to get the team back into the game and send it to overtime. when has Jay ever done anything that great? yes Orton doesn't have the cannon that Jay does, but he still has a good arm and can make any throw necessary to win. Also without the glove he had great touch, accuracy and zip on his balls against NE.

also, even though Jay can throw a ball 70 yards downfield with ease, he still isn't always very accurate on a deep pass, so it doesn't really matter how far he can throw it.

BroncoBuff
10-18-2009, 02:09 PM
Kyle Orton for his career has 27 TD's and only 2 INT's in opponent's red zone....Jay Cutler had 7 turnovers in opponent's red zone last season alone...so i guess you're finally right...

There is no comparison
Oh my gosh, you're RIGHT!

Jay Cutler sucks! Everyone else is STUPID! Errand, you and the other Jay-haters are totally way smarter than all the commentators, Dan Marino, Phil Simms, Howie Long, Boomer, Ditka, Cowher, Shanon, Bradshaw, all the GMs, coaches, everybody.

I think all the OM haters should SERIOUSLY apply for jobs as NFL GMs. All you have to say on your resumes is "Jay sucks," and they'll realize how brilliant you are. And make sure you tell them that when the rest of us try to talk sense to you, that you yell at and insult us, that'll get you bonus points!

:~ohyah!:

BroncoDoug
10-18-2009, 02:11 PM
Oh my gosh, you're RIGHT!

Jay Cutler sucks! Everyone else is STUPID! Errand, you and the other Jay-haters are totally way smarter than all the commentators, Dan Marino, Phil Simms, Howie Long, Boomer, Ditka, Cowher, Shanon, Bradshaw, all the GMs, coaches, everybody.

I think all the OM haters should SERIOUSLY apply for jobs as NFL GMs. All you have to say on your resumes is "Jay sucks," and they'll realize how brilliant you are. And make sure you tell them that when the rest of us try to talk sense to you, that you yell at and insult us, that'll get you bonus points!

:~ohyah!:


aww, you're starting to come around Buff, bout time ;)

BroncoInferno
10-18-2009, 02:13 PM
Oh my gosh, you're RIGHT!

Jay Cutler sucks! Everyone else is STUPID! Errand, you and the other Jay-haters are totally way smarter than all the commentators, Dan Marino, Phil Simms, Howie Long, Boomer, Ditka, Cowher, Shanon, Bradshaw, all the GMs, coaches, everybody.

I think all the OM haters should SERIOUSLY apply for jobs as NFL GMs. All you have to say on your resumes is "Jay sucks," and they'll realize how brilliant you are. And make sure you tell them that when the rest of us try to talk sense to you, that you yell at and insult us, that'll get you bonus points!

:~ohyah!:

Jay Cutler does not suck, but there are definitely some things Orton does better than Jay (red zone production is one). Of course, there are also some things Jay does better than Orton, but all offseason you and others acted like it was ridiculous to suggest that the things Orton does well might make him better suited to this offense. Right now, that suggestion doesn't (or shouldn't, at least) look so crazy.

baja
10-18-2009, 02:33 PM
Oh my gosh, you're RIGHT!

Jay Cutler sucks! Everyone else is STUPID! Errand, you and the other Jay-haters are totally way smarter than all the commentators, Dan Marino, Phil Simms, Howie Long, Boomer, Ditka, Cowher, Shanon, Bradshaw, all the GMs, coaches, everybody.

I think all the OM haters should SERIOUSLY apply for jobs as NFL GMs. All you have to say on your resumes is "Jay sucks," and they'll realize how brilliant you are. And make sure you tell them that when the rest of us try to talk sense to you, that you yell at and insult us, that'll get you bonus points!

:~ohyah!:

Well all those very same "experts" were all wrong about the Broncos why can't they be wrong about Cutler too.

Answer - They Can!

TheReverend
10-18-2009, 02:33 PM
Yeah, I see that. He's probably right that that trade does not happen without the extra pick. That said, Chicago's 2010 pick was literally part of the trade, so you have to factor it in to any discussion of the trade. The ability to trade for Smith could be chalked up to an additional benefit of the trade in the added flexibility it gave us to make such a move. I don't know how you'd quantify that, though.

I don't disagree. We'll see how it ends up shaking out. Whoever gets picked is gonna have to be GOOD.

Let's hope Spikes gets some injury and slides to whereever we pick (32 hopefully :) )

baja
10-18-2009, 02:36 PM
Buff, I can't believe you base your argument of the "Experts" opinion given how the very team you profess to support have proved the "Experts" wrong this very season.

BroncoBuff
10-18-2009, 03:03 PM
Buff, I can't believe you base your argument of the "Experts" opinion given how the very team you profess to support have proved the "Experts" wrong this very season.
Following me again, are you? You must be part bloodhound. ;D

What you say is partly true, but TEAM evaluations are very different than INDIVIDUALS ... even the best experts don't always do as well as tgn in game predictions. But players are different, evaluations of individual players are far, far more accurate.

I wish more people here - you included - could understand that reality exists independently of your willingness to acknowledge it. And the reality is that Jay is an excellent quarterback. This site appears to be the only place on Earth where that reality gives way to some delusional and retaliatory opinion base.

BroncoBuff
10-18-2009, 03:06 PM
Jay Cutler does not suck, but there are definitely some things Orton does better than Jay (red zone production is one). Of course, there are also some things Jay does better than Orton, but all offseason you and others acted like it was ridiculous to suggest that the things Orton does well might make him better suited to this offense. Right now, that suggestion doesn't (or shouldn't, at least) look so crazy.
Yeah, about even I guess.

Or maybe we should have given them two first-rounders? :oyvey:

Williams
10-18-2009, 03:08 PM
Buff, I can't believe you base your argument of the "Experts" opinion given how the very team you profess to support have proved the "Experts" wrong this very season.

McBuff's list is BS. I know for sure Sharpe and Ditka have both been critical of Cutler... I cant speak on the rest. Truth is though for every media expert swinging from Cutler's scrote, there's another that sees through the hype.

BroncoInferno
10-18-2009, 03:10 PM
Yeah, about even I guess.

Or maybe we should have given them two first-rounders? :oyvey:

When did I say that? Are you as convinced now as you were in the preseason that Jay is a better fit than Orton for THIS offense? McDaniels offense is about timing and patience. Would Cutler have been patient enough against the Pats to settle time and again for the short passes, or would he have gotten trigger happy at some point and tried to force one down field? Maybe he would have been, but there is plenty of reason to question it.

BroncoBuff
10-18-2009, 03:19 PM
McBuff's list is BS. I know for sure Sharpe and Ditka have both been critical of Cutler... I cant speak on the rest. Truth is though for every media expert swinging from Cutler's scrote, there's another that sees through the hype.
Wrong on both Sharpe and Ditka. The CBS crew was unanimous Bears won the trade. That was before we jetted out to 5-0 with Orton playing Pro-Bowl level ball, but all I was quoting was their admiration of Jay.

And Ditka, I have no earthly idea where you got that, he's one of Jay's biggest fans ... praised his Bears for finally getting their first leader at QB since he had Jim McMahon.

So far it looks like both teams won ... I sure as hell would not un-do the trade.

But my point is not whether he IS good ... my point is that this site seems to be the only place o Earth where the idea that Jay "sucks" (or whatever word you choose) has any real support. Some here are so delusional they blame last year's collapse on Jay, instead of the worst defense in the league ... we gave up 34 ppg average the last five weeks, only an idiot would blame Cutler. And he saved the season (to that point anyway) with one of the greatest 4th quarter comebacks in franshise history and the best all year in the NFL against Cleveland on the road.

Now THERE'S a dose of reality ... that's the reality everybody on Earth sees except a handful of loud, hateful posters here.

The reality, as I said, is also that the Denver Broncos are better off having made the trade. That appears to be the case. So then ... why are we arguing? ???

BroncoBuff
10-18-2009, 03:23 PM
When did I say that? Are you as convinced now as you were in the preseason that Jay is a better fit than Orton for THIS offense? McDaniels offense is about timing and patience.
Nope, I agree ... Orton is better (at least so far) in this offense than Jay would've been.

We're better off for the trade.

What I'm saying here is that Jay is an excellent quarterback. And no amount of Jay-hate on this little orange island of delusion can change that ;D

BroncoInferno
10-18-2009, 03:26 PM
Nope, I agree ... Orton is better (at least so far) in this offense than Jay would've been.

We're better off for the trade.

What I'm saying here is that Jay is an excellent quarterback. And no amount of Jay-hate on this little orange island of delusion can change that ;D

Fair enough. My only small quibble is your use of the adjective "excellent." An "excellent" QB to me has to have some meaningful wins in December/January under his belt before you can call him "excellent" (that goes for Cutler, Orton, and any other QB in the league). But he is good.

BroncoBuff
10-18-2009, 03:28 PM
Fair enough. My only small quibble is your use of the adjective "excellent." An "excellent" QB to me has to have some meaningful wins in December/January under his belt before you can call him "excellent" (that goes for Cutler, Orton, and any other QB in the league). But he is good.
Fair enough ... his Decembers have not been months to remember.

I can't wait for tonight's game thread ... whadd'ya think, is that gonna be entertaining or what? :~ohyah!:

Williams
10-18-2009, 03:29 PM
Wrong on both Sharpe and Ditka.

Now there may be positive comments on Cutler from both, but the following seems pretty critical to me...

Sharpe:

"I don't like the way he stands on the sidelines. And this is just me - he might be the greatest guy ever. I don't really know Jay Cutler, so I'm not one to sit here and pass judgment on him. But the way he stands and carries himself...I guess, and this is so unfair, I guess it's because I played nine years with number 7 (John Elway), and I just saw the way he (Elway) conducted himself. And I just automatically think all quarterbacks, especially if you play in Denver, that's the way you should do things. And that might be an unfair assessment of Jay Cutler and his character. But there are just some things I saw from the way he stood on the sideline, when things went wrong, the way he conducted himself, that I wasn't totally in love with."
http://www.bolthype.com/2009/04/shannon-sharpe-says-hes-not-jay-cutler.html

Ditka:

"People ask me one question: Is he a good quarterback?" Ditka told Farmer. "Well, he's got a great arm. He had great receivers up in Denver, they had an offense that threw the football a lot, so it highlighted his strengths. If he's in an offense that doesn't highlight his strengths, what's his strength going to be? It's got to be leadership, like Tony said. And he's got to prove that."
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2009/06/67904933/1


...and not that it really matters any way. Everyone has their opinion. I'm just saying not all the experts are in love.

BroncoBuff
10-18-2009, 03:32 PM
Excellent research, Will! :notworthy:

Much of that is mentality/attitude criticism, but it's still valid criticism. Mental aspects are real wildcards in player evaluations. Jeff George and Jamarcus Russell were correctly rated as massive physical talents (might even be the two strongest arms in NFL history), but both of them have empty, angry, lazy personalities. I don't think Jay is any of those, he's much more of a team player and competitor than they were ... but he does have a haughty, indifferent posture at times.

I'm still struck by Champ calling him a great leader and comparing him to Elway and Marino. Even I think that's kinda crazy hmmm...

Merlin
10-18-2009, 03:36 PM
Would Cutler have been patient enough against the Pats to settle time and again for the short passes, or would he have gotten trigger happy at some point and tried to force one down field? .
Have you seen him play this season? Other than the first half of the first game, he has played exactly as required. This despite his Defense sucking in the first half of every game, his running game being a virtual no show this season, rookie WR and no established WR and an OL that would have gotten Orton killed this yr. If he can be this calm and controlled w/o McD and Denver's D, OL, running game, and WR, then I have no doubt he would have done that and more for Denver (since he would also be able to complete mid and deep passes. That being said, who gives a ****...why do haters keep on trying to dis Cutler and not even watch his games? Just let it go. If the draft choices work, all is good. If they don't, Cutler was just a learning experience McD needed, and has become much the better for it (see BM). I don't think McD needs a Cutler to succeed, so I don't think the loss is as traumatic as some talking heads have made it out to be.



That being said, it would have been nice to see Cutler under McD's tutelage, but then again, that is a lot of money in a position that McD is proving he does not need (i.e. he can accomplish what is needed with lesser parts).

Williams
10-18-2009, 03:40 PM
Excellent research, Will! :notworthy:


Just some quick googling, my man. ;D

I realize opinions are split on the player, the trade, the coach, the whole offseason, etc... Thankfully we're undefeated and it seems the fanbase is starting to unite after a pretty tumultuous past few months. I guess those of us on opposite sides of the Cutler fence will just have to agree to disagree for as long as the man's playing. In the meantime, it sure is nice seeing KO playing at such a high level.

Bronx33
10-18-2009, 03:43 PM
Excellent research, Will! :notworthy:

Much of that is mentality/attitude criticism, but it's still valid criticism. Mental aspects are real wildcards in player evaluations. Jeff George and Jamarcus Russell were correctly rated as massive physical talents (might even be the two strongest arms in NFL history), but both of them have empty, angry, lazy personalities. I don't think Jay is any of those, he's much more of a team player and competitor than they were ... but he does have a haughty, indifferent posture at times.

I'm still struck by Champ calling him a great leader and comparing him to Elway and Marino. Even I think that's kinda crazy hmmm...


You think just maybe champ was just being nice it doesn't mean he meant it literally.

BroncoInferno
10-18-2009, 03:49 PM
Have you seen him play this season? Other than the first half of the first game, he has played exactly as required. This despite his Defense sucking in the first half of every game, his running game being a virtual no show this season, rookie WR and no established WR and an OL that would have gotten Orton killed this yr. If he can be this calm and controlled w/o McD and Denver's D, OL, running game, and WR, then I have no doubt he would have done that and more for Denver (since he would also be able to complete mid and deep passes. That being said, who gives a ****...why do haters keep on trying to dis Cutler and not even watch his games? Just let it go. If the draft choices work, all is good. If they don't, Cutler was just a learning experience McD needed, and has become much the better for it (see BM). I don't think McD needs a Cutler to succeed, so I don't think the loss is as traumatic as some talking heads have made it out to be.



That being said, it would have been nice to see Cutler under McD's tutelage, but then again, that is a lot of money in a position that McD is proving he does not need (i.e. he can accomplish what is needed with lesser parts).

I've been watching. And for the Bears offense and personnel, I agree that he is a better fit for them than Orton would have been. But that's all relative to circumstance. That does not mean that Orton wasn't the better fit for OUR offense and personnel. Also, I agree that Cutler has played more controlled ball for the last couple of games. He did that for us here and there (the Atlanta game last season, for instance). The question is, will he play that way CONSISTENTLY, week in and week out. I have my doubts. We'll see.

errand
10-18-2009, 03:58 PM
Well all i know is this...if Jay leads the Bears to division title and playoffs, people could say "big deal...Kyle Orton has done that before"....

However if Kyle Orton leads Broncos to division title and playoffs...well, nobody can say Jay did that......

HooptyHoops
10-18-2009, 04:35 PM
Well all i know is this...if Jay leads the Bears to division title and playoffs, people could say "big deal...Kyle Orton has done that before"....

However if Kyle Orton leads Broncos to division title and playoffs...well, nobody can say Jay did that......

LOL!! Sounds funny, but true!!

rastaman
10-18-2009, 04:45 PM
Well all i know is this...if Jay leads the Bears to division title and playoffs, people could say "big deal...Kyle Orton has done that before"....

However if Kyle Orton leads Broncos to division title and playoffs...well, nobody can say Jay did that......

Orton has never led a team to the playoffs w/o playing with an excellent defense! In 2005 the Bears had a smothering defense and Orton had a 10-5 record. Now in Denver he's playing with another great defense (thus far), and should the defense continue to play like the 2000 Ravens defense, Orton should post 11-14 wins this season and perhaps even make it to the SB.

Jay Cutler has yet to play with a team that has great Defense. However, when the defense has held teams to 21 points or less Cutler is 20-2. Orton would not have led the 07 and 08 Denver Bronco team to the post season due to Denvers porous Defense.

BroncoInferno
10-18-2009, 04:49 PM
However, when the defense has held teams to 21 points or less Cutler is 20-2.

Stupid stat. Every starting QB has a good record when their D allows less than 21. Shaun Hill only has 1 loss under those parameters. Funny thing...you usually win when your team allows less than 21! That says nothing about Jay Cutler.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-18-2009, 04:52 PM
I still find it interesting that in games where Cutler just manages the game, the Bears win. When he tries to get all "FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK" on people, he throws interceptions and loses. He learned a LOT from that first game against Green Bay, and I wish he would have learned it when he was here.

rastaman
10-18-2009, 05:07 PM
Stupid stat. Every starting QB has a good record when their D allows less than 21. Shaun Hill only has 1 loss under those parameters. Funny thing...you usually win when your team allows less than 21! That says nothing about Jay Cutler.

That stat seems to work overwhelmingly well for Orton as well....especially for the 2009 season thus far. Defense wins games more so than high scoring offenses.

BroncoInferno
10-18-2009, 05:35 PM
That stat seems to work overwhelmingly well for Orton as well....especially for the 2009 season thus far. Defense wins games more so than high scoring offenses.

Of course. So, what the hell was the point in bringing up Cutler's record when the D allows less than 21? We seem to agree that most QBs have a good record under that parameter.

baja
10-18-2009, 05:41 PM
Following me again, are you? You must be part bloodhound. ;D

What you say is partly true, but TEAM evaluations are very different than INDIVIDUALS ... even the best experts don't always do as well as tgn in game predictions. But players are different, evaluations of individual players are far, far more accurate.

I wish more people here - you included - could understand that reality exists independently of your willingness to acknowledge it. And the reality is that Jay is an excellent quarterback. This site appears to be the only place on Earth where that reality gives way to some delusional and retaliatory opinion base.

Cutler is nothing more than a game manager.

Popps
10-18-2009, 05:43 PM
Hey, the Bears are on.

Has SoCal or Blueflame checked in?

Popps
10-18-2009, 05:44 PM
Cutler is nothing more than a game manager.

Hilarious!


Stop it.

Popps
10-18-2009, 05:45 PM
Oops!

LOL

baja
10-18-2009, 05:48 PM
Cutler martchs Bears down the field and tosses a pick on the 10. hahahaha

baja
10-18-2009, 05:50 PM
Sure was pretty though, Cutler looked very franchiseish.

errand
10-18-2009, 07:30 PM
Kyle Orton for his career...27 TD's 2 INT's in red zone....

Rabb
10-18-2009, 08:06 PM
Did I twist your tittie??

Poor baby.

nah, not one bit

I bet us winning is just killing you isn't it?

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
10-18-2009, 08:29 PM
ummm yea bears just lost by 7 atl 21 bears 14 cutler pass hit a defender on 4th and six eh i was one of the guys who wanted cutler to stay wow was i wrong on that decision glad i dont run the broncos they be 2-14 like every year

Dagmar
10-18-2009, 08:33 PM
http://thejetpress.com/files/2009/03/emo_jay_cutler.jpg

Williams
10-18-2009, 10:25 PM
http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/lolcultersmacked.gif

Williams
10-18-2009, 10:26 PM
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g18/broncoking16/CutlerKanye.jpg

broncocalijohn
10-18-2009, 10:36 PM
Cutler is nothing more than a game manager.

Yes he is. He is in the game managing to f**** things up for his offense.

broncocalijohn
10-18-2009, 10:38 PM
http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/lolcultersmacked.gif

Isnt that Hochuli? Basically he is laughing at him thinking, "If you didnt bobble that fing pass vs Chargers, I wouldnt have had my life threatened. Thanks a ton douchebag."

broncocalijohn
10-18-2009, 10:39 PM
ummm yea bears just lost by 7 atl 21 bears 14 cutler pass hit a defender on 4th and six eh i was one of the guys who wanted cutler to stay wow was i wrong on that decision glad i dont run the broncos they be 2-14 like every year

Dan, he was never 2 and 14 and throw in a period a few times. I know you post more now than last year, but we need these post to at least be readable. But dont let my critique scare you away from posting again. :thumbsup:

TheReverend
10-18-2009, 10:43 PM
Isnt that Hochuli? Basically he is laughing at him thinking, "If you didnt bobble that fing pass vs Chargers, I wouldnt have had my life threatened. Thanks a ton douchebag."

No...

broncocalijohn
10-18-2009, 10:45 PM
No...

Ok, not Ed but Ed still thought that!

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
10-18-2009, 11:56 PM
Dan, he was never 2 and 14 and throw in a period a few times. I know you post more now than last year, but we need these post to at least be readable. But dont let my critique scare you away from posting again. :thumbsup:

no i ment if i was in charge of this team ie the owner this team would be 2-14 or worst every year
i wanted dan reeves to stay bowlen fired him
i wanted wade phillips to stay he got fired
i didnt want mike shannahan based on his record when he was a raider coach <he just won 2 superbowls and made several playoff appearances >
i wanted shanny to stay and cutler to stay as well 5-0 so far and i didnt want mcdaniels either. so you can see my glorious record when it comes to coaching decisions and qb decisions.
long story short i suck bowlen dont. so if bowlen wants to be a gutless drunk he now has my blessing for now on. hes doing a very good job at running the broncos. he should get owner of the year award!:flower:

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
10-19-2009, 12:00 AM
Isnt that Hochuli? Basically he is laughing at him thinking, "If you didnt bobble that fing pass vs Chargers, I wouldnt have had my life threatened. Thanks a ton douchebag."

hmmm accident, or is Hochuli tryin some referee jujitsu and tryin to chop Cutlers head off.
also looks like Cutler was about to hurl

rastaman
10-19-2009, 05:52 AM
Isnt that Hochuli? Basically he is laughing at him thinking, "If you didnt bobble that fing pass vs Chargers, I wouldnt have had my life threatened. Thanks a ton douchebag."

Yeah but Cutler caught his helmet! Gotta luv the "hand-eye" coordination. See how gifted he is!! :D

rastaman
10-19-2009, 05:54 AM
Yes he is. He is in the game managing to ***** things up for his offense.

The Bears offensive line did a great job at game management. I know Orton is laughing his AZZ OFF he's not playing on the Bears this year with that poor excuse for a line. !Booya!

errand
10-19-2009, 06:41 AM
The Bears offensive line did a great job at game management. I know Orton is laughing his AZZ OFF he's not playing on the Bears this year with that poor excuse for a line. !Booya!

...yeah, but shouldn't the great Qb's overcome such trivial obstacles like poor OL, WR's and the rest? Shouldn't their talent help elevate the rest of the team?

Mountain Bronco
10-19-2009, 08:48 AM
We are 5-0, the Bears are not. We are 5-0, something we never were with Cutler. That is all I care about.

55CrushEm
10-19-2009, 09:37 AM
I actually agree with this. It's still very early but it looks to me like we won this trade.

Although there's gotta be SOME negatives with Orton ... Bears fans hated him and he was benched numerous times.

If it's possible, I think both teams won this trade, so far. Johnny Knox has been HUGE for them.

But as we know, fans are fickle.......supposedly, the Bears' locker room LOVED Orton.....and that means a lot more.

55CrushEm
10-19-2009, 09:45 AM
All I said was Orton is what he is...a game manager. Where are the perfect and insane passes??
I do think Orton is throwing better now without the glove but I still haven't see the passes that make a good or great QB.

We'll see how it shakes out but to keep hoping to see Cutler fail as some sort of vindication that Denver's FO made out in this trade is whistling in the dark.

Perfect and "insane" passes? Again, it doesn't seem like you watched the Pats game last week.....73%, 330 yards, a 90 and 98-yard drive......what more do you want? He threw a lot of "perfect" passes in that game.

Seems like you think the NFL gives out style-points......guess what, they don't.

rastaman
10-19-2009, 09:50 AM
...yeah, but shouldn't the great Qb's overcome such trivial obstacles like poor OL, WR's and the rest? Shouldn't their talent help elevate the rest of the team?

Isn't that a myth! I mean list a QB in the league today thats overcoming the trivial obstacles like poor OL, WR's and the rest? Seems like in todays trends in the NFL only the system QB's who are surrounded by talent are elevating their teams. If I'm wrong please point it out.

Cito Pelon
10-19-2009, 09:54 AM
Hmmm, not speaking for Buff, but I'll take his overall rep over yours any day.

Don't make me laugh.

Buffy is to TonyR like Don Knotts is to Bruce Lee.

55CrushEm
10-19-2009, 10:02 AM
http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/lolcultersmacked.gif

Holy crap.....check out the receiving skills on Cutler! He caught that helmet behind his back. Position change in the future?

:D

BroncoInSkinland
10-19-2009, 10:05 AM
Holy crap.....check out the receiving skills on Cutler! He caught that helmet behind his back. Position change in the future?

:D

That reminds me, I am trying for the most part to stop posting on Cutler threads (Chargers game has a much larger impact on our season for instance, but only about 3 or 4 active threads at the moment), but did anyone see Jay dogging it as the reciever in the Wildcat? I bet THAT endeared him to his recieving corps, you know, the ones he fed to the media wolves. I hope hester says that he may not be as good a QB as Cutler, but that at least he tried to throw the ball, maybe if Jay would TRY to run the WC could have a touch more success.

55CrushEm
10-19-2009, 10:08 AM
http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/lolcultersmacked.gif

Haha. Follow the .gif to the very end.....the ref is smiling.... LOL

Too funny.

Irish Stout
10-19-2009, 10:10 AM
Chargers suck they really really suck!

errand
10-19-2009, 03:34 PM
I think it is all predicated on the belief by some that we gave away the next Elway and got Orton in return.

Well, I for one would have traded Elway himself if it meant we'd have won any of those Super bowls we lost in the 80's. I love the Broncos...not any one particular player. yeah i've got my favorites like most fans do...but i'd get rid of any one of them if it means the Broncos are winning Super bowls.

TheReverend
10-19-2009, 03:35 PM
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w182/wak34/whatwhat.gif

Circle Orange
10-19-2009, 06:44 PM
Well, I for one would have traded Elway himself if it meant we'd have won any of those Super bowls we lost in the 80's. I love the Broncos...not any one particular player. yeah i've got my favorites like most fans do...but i'd get rid of any one of them if it means the Broncos are winning Super bowls.

Thou art mad, sir.