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HEAV
10-14-2009, 09:02 PM
By Mike Chambers
The Denver Post

In his Aug. 14 preseason debut as the Broncos quarterback, Kyle Orton threw interceptions on his first three possessions. Two months later, Denver is 5-0 and Orton has been named AFC offensive player of the week.

"There was a lot made out of our first preseason game," Orton said today at his weekly press conference. "Looking back, I'm happy they stuck with me, had confidence in me. That obviously does a lot for a quarterback."

Orton's first AFC weekly honor came after he completed 35-of-48 passes for 330 yards with two touchdowns and a 96.7 QB rating in Denver's 20-17 overtime win against New England on Sunday. His two TD drives featured at least 10 plays and covered more than 90 yards, including a 12-play, 98-yarder late in the fourth quarter that forced overtime.

"It was a special win, a special week," Orton said.

Orton, who was acquired from Chicago for disgruntled QB Jay Cutler, said he always thought he would fit in nicely with the Broncos.

"I thought from Day One that this was a great fit for me," he said. "I had a lot of confidence when the trade happened. I was excited about the trade and what I, and we, could do in this system."

Orton is the Broncos' 44th AFC offensive player of the week winner.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_13559701

ZONA
10-14-2009, 09:03 PM
McD is going to be the best thing to happen to Orton.

HEAV
10-14-2009, 09:05 PM
McD is going to be the best thing to happen to Orton.

McDaniels is the best thing to happen to Denver in 10 years.

bpc
10-14-2009, 09:06 PM
It's been a great fit so far. McD and Orton both deserve a lot of credit. Hopefully they can be a Gruden/Gannon like pairing.

bpc
10-14-2009, 09:08 PM
McDaniels is the best thing to happen to Denver in 10 years.

Denver had the 5th best winning percentage over the past 10 years.

We're five games into the season.

Give it a rest. We all hope he can win the super bowl, deliver championships, etc.

Once again, we're 5 games into the season.

tsiguy96
10-14-2009, 09:13 PM
Denver had the 5th best winning percentage over the past 10 years.

We're five games into the season.

Give it a rest. We all hope he can win the super bowl, deliver championships, etc.

Once again, we're 5 games into the season.

winning percentage in regular season is nice, but not when youre hopes get killed the second you reach the playoffs. this actually looks like a team taht can withstand, havent seen that in awhile.

baja
10-14-2009, 09:15 PM
Denver had the 5th best winning percentage over the past 10 years.

We're five games into the season.

Give it a rest. We all hope he can win the super bowl, deliver championships, etc.

Once again, we're 5 games into the season.

HEAV is speculating is that not allowed in your world?

Seems you did a whole bunch of speculating around here a few months ago.

HEAV
10-14-2009, 09:16 PM
Denver had the 5th best winning percentage over the past 10 years.

We're five games into the season.

Give it a rest. We all hope he can win the super bowl, deliver championships, etc.

Once again, we're 5 games into the season.

:welcome:


Don't worry...soon Shanny will be coaching another team and you can be a fan of that team.

BroncoSojia
10-14-2009, 09:39 PM
He can throw for over 4k in our system.

theAPAOps5
10-14-2009, 09:46 PM
Denver had the 5th best winning percentage over the past 10 years.

We're five games into the season.

Give it a rest. We all hope he can win the super bowl, deliver championships, etc.

Once again, we're 5 games into the season.

How about you give it a rest? McD has brought a breath of fresh air to the Broncos. Yeah Shanny did things that will always be remembered but things got stale.

Seems to me you are trying to shut people up from being excited about the new regime. So again until you decide to move on how about giving it a rest and letting those of us appreciate what the change has brought.

Oh and by the way the change brought consistency and winning. Yeah its only 5 games into the season but in the past few years that marked the start of the Shanny slide. So far this team has only gotten better.

spdirty
10-14-2009, 09:47 PM
Just a little off topic, but I heard Alfred Williams tonight saying we need to give Orton a 7 year 100 million dollar contract. Just stupid. I actually got plssed off at this kind of stupidity. Orton will do what he needs to do to stay on this team after this year. Thats if he really cares about his career long term. I'm happy that he quarterbacked a Broncos team to a 5-0 record, and actually outplayed Tom Brady in our last win. But Ill have to see it before I will ever believe that this guy can lead us to a Super Bowl win.

SouthCarolinaBronco
10-14-2009, 09:47 PM
Denver had the 5th best winning percentage over the past 10 years.

We're five games into the season.

Give it a rest. We all hope he can win the super bowl, deliver championships, etc.

Once again, we're 5 games into the season.

I'd rather have the 32nd best winning percentage over the past 10 years if one of those years had included a Super Bowl win.

theAPAOps5
10-14-2009, 09:49 PM
Just a little off topic, but I heard Alfred Williams tonight saying we need to give Orton a 7 year 100 million dollar contract. Just stupid. I actually got plssed off at this kind of stupidity. Orton will do what he needs to do to stay on this team after this year. Thats if he really cares about his career long term. I'm happy that he quarterbacked a Broncos team to a 5-0 record, and actually outplayed Tom Brady in our last win. But Ill have to see it before I will ever believe that this guy can lead us to a Super Bowl win.

Yeah Alfred is a bit off base but not nearly as off as you are. Keep complaining it seems to be the only thing you do best! That goes for football and politics! :)

BroncoMan4ever
10-14-2009, 10:31 PM
the fact that McDaniels showed confidence in Orton almost immediately naming him starter, sticking with him through a few bad showings, has been huge for Orton. in Chicago he always had to look over his shoulder and worry the next mistake he made would be his last. that makes a QBs nerves shaky when they believe they have to be perfect. look at places like Cleveland where the QB situation is a revolving door every season from week to week, they never get anything going and remain annual bottom feeders.

Orton received a show of confidence from his coach and teammates and ran with it, and it is paying off really well for him. he is showing he can be a franchise QB.

bpc
10-14-2009, 10:40 PM
HEAV is speculating is that not allowed in your world?

Seems you did a whole bunch of speculating around here a few months ago.

Educated guessing which normally would have made sense. Not many 1st year coaches have success. Hell, not many 1st time coaches make it out of their 1st contract successfully. McDaniels approach thus far has been a splashing success.

I'll give McDaniels his due and i'm on board with the plan. Are you expecting me to tear being 5-0? That would be stupid. At the same time, this team has 2nd hardest schedule coming down the stretch. We're 5 games into the season. I HOPE we go 16 and 0 but let's give him a few years before we anoint him the next Vince Lombardi. 8-8 would have been a plus season for me. We have a legitimate chance to win the AFC West this year despite all the changes.

Where will he be in year 15 of his tenure with Denver? It's easy to have the fire in year 1 and 2, but where will we be down the road when in Shanahan's shoes?


Shanahan was a GREAT head coach. We'll be so lucky if McDaniels can follow in his footsteps.

bpc
10-14-2009, 10:40 PM
I'd rather have the 32nd best winning percentage over the past 10 years if one of those years had included a Super Bowl win.

That's the stupidest thing i've ever read.

bpc
10-14-2009, 10:54 PM
How about you give it a rest? McD has brought a breath of fresh air to the Broncos. Yeah Shanny did things that will always be remembered but things got stale.

Seems to me you are trying to shut people up from being excited about the new regime. So again until you decide to move on how about giving it a rest and letting those of us appreciate what the change has brought.

Oh and by the way the change brought consistency and winning. Yeah its only 5 games into the season but in the past few years that marked the start of the Shanny slide. So far this team has only gotten better.

I'm not trying to deter anybody from being excited about being 5-0. I hope people are excited. I'M EXCITED.

Doesn't matter what happened to Shanny at the end, he's gone. Still, the impact of his time with this franchise can be felt throughout his 15 years. 2 Super Bowls, TONS OF WINNING year in and year out... only two losing seasons!

The change from McD to Shanny hasn't appeared that great in the record thus far. We're 5 games into the season. Statistically YES, especially on defense, offensively, not as much. Definitely not record-wise. We were 4-1 this time last year, 5-1 3 and 4 years ago. Shanahan wrote the book on fast starts. The key is to finishing strong. I hope McDaniels can bring that.

Here's the bottom line, people don't need to tear Shanahan to be happy about McD. Two separate coaches, sets of circumstances, and now tenures.

Go Broncos, GO McDaniels and good luck Mike Shanahan, thank you for the championships and all the wins. Let's let it stay right there. Appreciate the man, no need to denigrate him.

cutthemdown
10-14-2009, 10:55 PM
good thing rastaman not in charge. he would of benched orton in preseason.

bpc
10-14-2009, 10:57 PM
:welcome:


Don't worry...soon Shanny will be coaching another team and you can be a fan of that team.

I'm a Broncos fan, but i'll be happy for Shanahan when he's winning, and hoisting the super bowl trophy sometime in his near future. He's a class act and he bled for this city and their fans.

We've been so spoiled by our success over the past 20 years, we just don't realize how great we've had it. I hope we've struck gold again with McDaniels, still, some fans should show more gratitude for the sacrifices people have made to put this franchise on such a large national level.

Spider
10-14-2009, 11:37 PM
"I thought from Day One that this was a great fit for me," he said. "I had a lot of confidence when the trade happened. I was excited about the trade and what I, and we, could do in this system."I know this statement is true and not just lip service ...orton was on the first flight out 5 minutes after the trade .....impressed the hell out of me ,been on the orton bandwagon since............

CEH
10-14-2009, 11:39 PM
Just a little off topic, but I heard Alfred Williams tonight saying we need to give Orton a 7 year 100 million dollar contract. Just stupid. I actually got plssed off at this kind of stupidity. Orton will do what he needs to do to stay on this team after this year. Thats if he really cares about his career long term. I'm happy that he quarterbacked a Broncos team to a 5-0 record, and actually outplayed Tom Brady in our last win. But Ill have to see it before I will ever believe that this guy can lead us to a Super Bowl win.

He also said he thinks Knowshon is a Mike Bell clone
That's when I turned the channel

BroncoMan4ever
10-15-2009, 01:17 AM
I know this statement is true and not just lip service ...orton was on the first flight out 5 minutes after the trade .....impressed the hell out of me ,been on the orton bandwagon since............

i know what you mean. i have always liked Orton even when he was in Chicago. He always seemed like a guy never given a fair shot or a good opportunity to succeed, regardless of his record.

but the fact that he got the news he had been traded, heard it, processed it, took it like a man, and realized he was going to a much better situation and jumped at the opportunity was great.

i am a fan of this guy and will be happy when we give him a long term deal.

BroncoMan4ever
10-15-2009, 01:24 AM
Just a little off topic, but I heard Alfred Williams tonight saying we need to give Orton a 7 year 100 million dollar contract. Just stupid. I actually got plssed off at this kind of stupidity. Orton will do what he needs to do to stay on this team after this year. Thats if he really cares about his career long term. I'm happy that he quarterbacked a Broncos team to a 5-0 record, and actually outplayed Tom Brady in our last win. But Ill have to see it before I will ever believe that this guy can lead us to a Super Bowl win.

i like Orton a lot and want him signed long term with us. but the only QB in the league i would ever even think about possibly being worth the 7 year 100 million dollar contract, would be Peyton(hate on him all you want, but he is the big dog in this league and will own every meaningful QB record when he is done)

no one else is worth anywhere near that kind of bank. Ryan in a few years maybe, Flacco is a long shot, Rodgers has an ok shot. Rivers has a good shot at that kind of cash. I know a lot would say Cutler, but until he shows he isn't just a spoiled child with a lot of athletic ability he isn't worth that much money.

BroncoMan4ever
10-15-2009, 01:37 AM
I'm not trying to deter anybody from being excited about being 5-0. I hope people are excited. I'M EXCITED.

Doesn't matter what happened to Shanny at the end, he's gone. Still, the impact of his time with this franchise can be felt throughout his 15 years. 2 Super Bowls, TONS OF WINNING year in and year out... only two losing seasons!

The change from McD to Shanny hasn't appeared that great in the record thus far. We're 5 games into the season. Statistically YES, especially on defense, offensively, not as much. Definitely not record-wise. We were 4-1 this time last year, 5-1 3 and 4 years ago. Shanahan wrote the book on fast starts. The key is to finishing strong. I hope McDaniels can bring that.

Here's the bottom line, people don't need to tear Shanahan to be happy about McD. Two separate coaches, sets of circumstances, and now tenures.

Go Broncos, GO McDaniels and good luck Mike Shanahan, thank you for the championships and all the wins. Let's let it stay right there. Appreciate the man, no need to denigrate him.

i believe this team will be better at the end of the season than they are now. just looking at the last 2 games where we came back in the 2nd half for wins shows a determination and is from good coaching that has the players working their asses off til the end of games.

Mike was great at fast starts, but his teams always faded down the stretch and in games where the team was behind going into the half or 4th quarter, his teams rarely came back, they would simply pack it in. that isn't happening anymore. we may hit a rough patch this season, but unlike Shanahan coached teams, this team isn't going to fold when adversity hits.

Broncoman13
10-15-2009, 03:35 AM
How about you give it a rest? McD has brought a breath of fresh air to the Broncos. Yeah Shanny did things that will always be remembered but things got stale.

Seems to me you are trying to shut people up from being excited about the new regime. So again until you decide to move on how about giving it a rest and letting those of us appreciate what the change has brought.

Oh and by the way the change brought consistency and winning. Yeah its only 5 games into the season but in the past few years that marked the start of the Shanny slide. So far this team has only gotten better.

Nick, even the Shanny supporters (myself included) are scarred from the years of fast starts and mid/late season collapses. bpc may not even realize that he is looking at the current regime in that same light b/c of what has happened over the past several seasons. I am one of McD's biggest supporters and I still wonder if we can maintain. I expected a team that would compete every game... out gunned or not we would be a team that would not give up. But an 11 or 12 win season... nope, wasn't expecting that.

Broncoman13
10-15-2009, 03:40 AM
Just a little off topic, but I heard Alfred Williams tonight saying we need to give Orton a 7 year 100 million dollar contract. Just stupid. I actually got plssed off at this kind of stupidity. Orton will do what he needs to do to stay on this team after this year. Thats if he really cares about his career long term. I'm happy that he quarterbacked a Broncos team to a 5-0 record, and actually outplayed Tom Brady in our last win. But Ill have to see it before I will ever believe that this guy can lead us to a Super Bowl win.

About a week before camp started Montrose called me and said he thought the Broncos may give Orton a new contract before the season even started. The team had a lot of confidence in him and the strategy was right... give him 4 or 5 years and $35m now and accept the risk that he may not be great. The alternative is, let him play out the season, watch him have two or three "AFC Offensive Player of the Week" awards, have the Broncos win 11 games when most expected them to win 4-6, see him go to the Pro-Bowl with 3500 yards, 25 TDs and 8 INTs... and finally have his agent say, 6 years $75m sounds about right.

cutthemdown
10-15-2009, 03:49 AM
The thing is even if Orton has a good yr other GMS will still feel same way about him. Orton will have to realize no team will see him as valuable as Broncos do. Other teams will be Orton would be great, does Mcdaniels come with him? The fact Cassal played better last yr plays into that.

Orton will resign in Denver, but it won't be a top flight QB deal. It won't be anywhere near what Eli and Rivers got.

Broncoman13
10-15-2009, 03:49 AM
I'm not trying to deter anybody from being excited about being 5-0. I hope people are excited. I'M EXCITED.

Doesn't matter what happened to Shanny at the end, he's gone. Still, the impact of his time with this franchise can be felt throughout his 15 years. 2 Super Bowls, TONS OF WINNING year in and year out... only two losing seasons!

The change from McD to Shanny hasn't appeared that great in the record thus far. We're 5 games into the season. Statistically YES, especially on defense, offensively, not as much. Definitely not record-wise. We were 4-1 this time last year, 5-1 3 and 4 years ago. Shanahan wrote the book on fast starts. The key is to finishing strong. I hope McDaniels can bring that.

Here's the bottom line, people don't need to tear Shanahan to be happy about McD. Two separate coaches, sets of circumstances, and now tenures.

Go Broncos, GO McDaniels and good luck Mike Shanahan, thank you for the championships and all the wins. Let's let it stay right there. Appreciate the man, no need to denigrate him.

This is why I am being a little cautious right now. If Med has taught me anything it is that a good coaching staff can overcome talent deficiencies on a team early on. After the first quarter of the season the more talent rich teams start to stick out and the talent deprived teams are exposed. It happened to Denver year after year under Shanny b/c we were so talent deprived, especially on defense. I can hear Med complaining about our DL now from the 05 season. We got by on superior play calling and execution in the opening weeks. By seasons end we were unable to "outsmart" our opponent.

Gotta give Coach McD some credit though. A lot of times in those first four games you have a lot of success doing the same thing and other teams can't adjust to it. Josh McD doesn't do the same things. Its funny, but even when he is somewhat predictable he throws and extra wrinkle into it to throw you off. I.e., I had a strong feeling we would see the "Wildcat" vs the Pats. He was part of that team that got carved up last year by the Phins Wildcat. What no one could expect is that he would do it with Orton coming back under center so often and throwing out of that set.

bpc
10-15-2009, 05:31 AM
I have tremendous respect for what McDaniels has done. I've long wanted the 3-4 in Denver, he's brought that. I can see now, watching his offense, he is a special play-caller... just as Shanaahan was when he got here. He's got a knack calling the right play and having guys in a position to succeed on 3rd down. It's fun to watch.

Oskie, thanks for clarifying my stance. It's two fold:

1. I am leery of quick starts from the Shanahan's days. Like I said, I hope we march through this schedule with the same gumption that we've attacked the first 5 games.

2. I often find people attacking Shanahan for no reason, trying to bash the man. Shanahan was a great coach in Denver, who spoiled us by constantly winning, consistently putting us in a position to reach the playoffs. He's potentially a hall of fame coach but I find people tearing him down. No need to do that. Respect the man. That's all.

BroncoInSkinland
10-15-2009, 05:32 AM
He can throw for over 4k in our system.

He's on pace for 3,955 right now, and I don't think we have seen our best offensive performances yet.

Jesterhole
10-15-2009, 05:50 AM
Orton is doing far better than most thought he would, but giving him any kind of long term contract would be silly. Lets see how he does this year, and based on an entire season we either give him a deal or use our franchise tag on him. Either way, he isn't going anywhere, giving him money now wouldn't save us anything.

chex
10-15-2009, 05:50 AM
I have tremendous respect for what McDaniels has done. I've long wanted the 3-4 in Denver, he's brought that. I can see now, watching his offense, he is a special play-caller... just as Shanaahan was when he got here. He's got a knack calling the right play and having guys in a position to succeed on 3rd down. It's fun to watch.

Oskie, thanks for clarifying my stance. It's two fold:

1. I am leery of quick starts from the Shanahan's days. Like I said, I hope we march through this schedule with the same gumption that we've attacked the first 5 games.

2. I often find people attacking Shanahan for no reason, trying to bash the man. Shanahan was a great coach in Denver, who spoiled us by constantly winning, consistently putting us in a position to reach the playoffs. He's potentially a hall of fame coach but I find people tearing him down. No need to do that. Respect the man. That's all.

So on the one hand you're leery of McDaniels' fast start since in the Shanahan days we'd start quick and then fade, but on the other hand Shanahan spoiled us by constantly winning and constanly putting us in position to reach the playoffs? :kiddingme

What have we constanly won? We had 4 playoff appearances the last 10 years with one win, and his record in Denver without a QB named Elway or Plummer was 51-50. Only 4 10+ win season the last 10 years, and 24-24 the last three. Don't get mad at me for pointing it out, get mad at Shanahan for giving me something to point out in the first place.

chex
10-15-2009, 05:52 AM
Orton will resign in Denver, but it won't be a top flight QB deal. It won't be anywhere near what Eli and Rivers got.

I agree. Those guys got the big $$$$ as a reward for big seasons. Even if Orton is lights out he'll get a medium range deal from us. No one else is going to take a chance on a guy who did it for one year with a big buck contract. I think we're in a great position here.

barryr
10-15-2009, 06:54 AM
Many people believe you can only win with QB's who make a bunch of spectacular plays every game, all game long. That's just not the case. Tom Brady has won 3 Super Bowls and he's hardly been that spectacular. More like steady and accurate, limiting mistakes and only taking chances when have to and wow, that's just what McDaniels wants in his QB.

bronco militia
10-15-2009, 06:58 AM
I have tremendous respect for what McDaniels has done. I've long wanted the 3-4 in Denver, he's brought that. I can see now, watching his offense, he is a special play-caller... just as Shanaahan was when he got here. He's got a knack calling the right play and having guys in a position to succeed on 3rd down. It's fun to watch.

Oskie, thanks for clarifying my stance. It's two fold:

1. I am leery of quick starts from the Shanahan's days. Like I said, I hope we march through this schedule with the same gumption that we've attacked the first 5 games.

2. I often find people attacking Shanahan for no reason, trying to bash the man. Shanahan was a great coach in Denver, who spoiled us by constantly winning, consistently putting us in a position to reach the playoffs. He's potentially a hall of fame coach but I find people tearing him down. No need to do that. Respect the man. That's all.

nice post...I agree 100%

CEH
10-15-2009, 06:59 AM
Orton is doing far better than most thought he would, but giving him any kind of long term contract would be silly. Lets see how he does this year, and based on an entire season we either give him a deal or use our franchise tag on him. Either way, he isn't going anywhere, giving him money now wouldn't save us anything.

Doom needs to be locked up today
Marshall will get his money at season end. I'd franchise Marshall if need be
Kuper will be locked up as well
Now Orton like has been pointed out needs a hometown discount otherwise if he wants a super big contract see ya.
I'm not even sure Orton will get a Matt Cassell deal.

jhat01
10-15-2009, 06:59 AM
good thing rastaman not in charge. he would of benched orton in preseason.

Hell BF7 would have benched him after the Dallas game!

bronco militia
10-15-2009, 07:00 AM
This is why I am being a little cautious right now. If Med has taught me anything it is that a good coaching staff can overcome talent deficiencies on a team early on. After the first quarter of the season the more talent rich teams start to stick out and the talent deprived teams are exposed. It happened to Denver year after year under Shanny b/c we were so talent deprived, especially on defense. I can hear Med complaining about our DL now from the 05 season. We got by on superior play calling and execution in the opening weeks. By seasons end we were unable to "outsmart" our opponent.

Gotta give Coach McD some credit though. A lot of times in those first four games you have a lot of success doing the same thing and other teams can't adjust to it. Josh McD doesn't do the same things. Its funny, but even when he is somewhat predictable he throws and extra wrinkle into it to throw you off. I.e., I had a strong feeling we would see the "Wildcat" vs the Pats. He was part of that team that got carved up last year by the Phins Wildcat. What no one could expect is that he would do it with Orton coming back under center so often and throwing out of that set.

another good post....

Mr.Meanie
10-15-2009, 07:53 AM
i have tremendous respect for what mcdaniels has done. I've long wanted the 3-4 in denver, he's brought that. I can see now, watching his offense, he is a special play-caller... Just as shanaahan was when he got here. He's got a knack calling the right play and having guys in a position to succeed on 3rd down. It's fun to watch.

Oskie, thanks for clarifying my stance. It's two fold:

1. I am leery of quick starts from the shanahan's days. Like i said, i hope we march through this schedule with the same gumption that we've attacked the first 5 games.

2. I often find people attacking shanahan for no reason, trying to bash the man. Shanahan was a great coach in denver, who spoiled us by constantly winning, consistently putting us in a position to reach the playoffs. He's potentially a hall of fame coach but i find people tearing him down. No need to do that. Respect the man. That's all.

+1

BroncoBuff
10-15-2009, 08:01 AM
McD is going to be the best thing to happen to Orton.

Definitely. And Orton's statements inn that interview are so well said ... he's been a 100% different (and 100% better) quarterback when the games counted. I'll eat the crow about this now ... looks like I was big-time wrong about Orton.

Rohirrim
10-15-2009, 08:25 AM
I'm a Broncos fan, but i'll be happy for Shanahan when he's winning, and hoisting the super bowl trophy sometime in his near future. He's a class act and he bled for this city and their fans.

We've been so spoiled by our success over the past 20 years, we just don't realize how great we've had it. I hope we've struck gold again with McDaniels, still, some fans should show more gratitude for the sacrifices people have made to put this franchise on such a large national level.

In that case, all hail Red Miller! ;D

BroncoBuff
10-15-2009, 08:25 AM
Just a little off topic, but I heard Alfred Williams tonight saying we need to give Orton a 7 year 100 million dollar contract. Just stupid. I actually got plssed off at this kind of stupidity. Orton will do what he needs to do to stay on this team after this year. Thats if he really cares about his career long term. I'm happy that he quarterbacked a Broncos team to a 5-0 record, and actually outplayed Tom Brady in our last win. But Ill have to see it before I will ever believe that this guy can lead us to a Super Bowl win.

Pay attention spdirty, because this is the first time I've ever said this to you:

Good post! ;D

BroncoInferno
10-15-2009, 08:43 AM
The thing is even if Orton has a good yr other GMS will still feel same way about him. Orton will have to realize no team will see him as valuable as Broncos do. Other teams will be Orton would be great, does Mcdaniels come with him? The fact Cassal played better last yr plays into that.

Orton will resign in Denver, but it won't be a top flight QB deal. It won't be anywhere near what Eli and Rivers got.

Jake Delhomme got a 5 year $42.5 million dollar extension including $20 million in guarentees, this after wetting the bed in the playoffs. Starting QBs are held at a premium in this league, so expect Orton to get at least what Delhomme got, probably more.

tsiguy96
10-15-2009, 08:45 AM
Jake Delhomme got a 5 year $42.5 million dollar extension including $20 million in guarentees, this after wetting the bed in the playoffs. Starting QBs are held at a premium in this league, so expect Orton to get at least what Delhomme got, probably more.

thats nothing like what marshall and elvis are gonna get, i think we can gladly pay him that. scheffler we need to look at trade options however since theres no way they can resign all these guys and chris kuper.

BroncoInferno
10-15-2009, 08:51 AM
thats nothing like what marshall and elvis are gonna get, i think we can gladly pay him that. scheffler we need to look at trade options however since theres no way they can resign all these guys and chris kuper.

Actually, Matt Cassel's deal will probably be the reference point for any negotiations. He got a 6 year $60 million deal with $28 million guarenteed. Those who think we are going to get Orton to sign on the cheap on in for a rude awakening. Of course, all this is dependant on Orton continuing to play as he has thus far.

hookemhess
10-15-2009, 09:42 AM
McDaniels is the best thing to happen to Denver in 10 years.

Not so fast.... it's only 5 games. I'd say Champ Bailey is the best thing to happen to Denver in 10 years.

UberBroncoMan
10-15-2009, 10:15 AM
winning percentage in regular season is nice, but not when youre hopes get killed the second you reach the playoffs. this actually looks like a team taht can withstand, havent seen that in awhile.

If Plummer didn't **** a brick vs the Steelers at home we would have won the Super Bowl in 2005.

Rock Chalk
10-15-2009, 11:09 AM
I have tremendous respect for what McDaniels has done. I've long wanted the 3-4 in Denver, he's brought that. I can see now, watching his offense, he is a special play-caller... just as Shanaahan was when he got here. He's got a knack calling the right play and having guys in a position to succeed on 3rd down. It's fun to watch.

Oskie, thanks for clarifying my stance. It's two fold:

1. I am leery of quick starts from the Shanahan's days. Like I said, I hope we march through this schedule with the same gumption that we've attacked the first 5 games.

2. I often find people attacking Shanahan for no reason, trying to bash the man. Shanahan was a great coach in Denver, who spoiled us by constantly winning, consistently putting us in a position to reach the playoffs. He's potentially a hall of fame coach but I find people tearing him down. No need to do that. Respect the man. That's all.

Shanahan was not a great coach without Elway.

Period.

You can point to the two losing seasons in a decade and 2 .500 seasons and 6 winning seasons and say "HEy, thats a great coach". But ANY other team in the NFL that went with 6 winning seasons, and 2 losing seasons and 2 .500 seasons in the NFL with only ONE PLAYOFF WIN in that timespan would NOT be considered a great coach.

Shanahan was a brilliant Xs and Os guy but he was one of the worst GMs in the league and since he stopped being the Xs and Os guy long ago and let his OCs take over the game after the scripted plays, Denver became a MEDIOCRE team at best.

This was made even more apparent when Denver lost the best OC they had under Shanahan in Kubiak.

Everyone points to the Superbowls and we are all grateful to Shanahan for helping Elway get a ring but facts are facts. His coaching resume sans-Elway is rather ****ty.

theAPAOps5
10-15-2009, 11:36 AM
Nick, even the Shanny supporters (myself included) are scarred from the years of fast starts and mid/late season collapses. bpc may not even realize that he is looking at the current regime in that same light b/c of what has happened over the past several seasons. I am one of McD's biggest supporters and I still wonder if we can maintain. I expected a team that would compete every game... out gunned or not we would be a team that would not give up. But an 11 or 12 win season... nope, wasn't expecting that.

You know I have to agree! I still find myself cringing in the second half waiting for the collapse. I totally agree we are so conditioned for it to happen that its easy to be skeptical.

So I see where BPC is coming from!

BroncoMan4ever
10-15-2009, 11:46 AM
I agree. Those guys got the big $$$$ as a reward for big seasons. Even if Orton is lights out he'll get a medium range deal from us. No one else is going to take a chance on a guy who did it for one year with a big buck contract. I think we're in a great position here.

not necessarily. 1 good season gets QBs paid. Cassel makes more than Brady after 1 good year of service, and can now barely hold off his winless backups to keep his starting job.

QBs are held at a premium. Delhomme got something like a 55million dollar deal over 5 years with 20 million guaranteed after ****ing up in the playoffs.

If Orton continues this pace and has a monster year, he is going to at least match what Delhomme got, if not here than somewhere else.

look at the Griese situation. 1 really good year and we broke the bank on him.

bronco militia
10-15-2009, 11:50 AM
Isn't it time that Mike Shanahan gets some of the credit for this year's Broncos? He gave Josh McDaniels one of the best offensive lines in the NFL, and the receiving corps, when including tight ends, may also be the best in the league. If you remember last season, the Broncos had one of the worst injury years ever, and if they had a normal injury year, the Broncos would probably have gone deep into the playoffs.
-- Vince, Superior


Vince: Superior point, Vince. I actually was going to mention that in a column last week, but got turned around sideways toward something else. Mike Shanahan didn't leave an empty cupboard, despite the appearance of all those changes. I don't have to look this up. Already did. Six of the offensive linemen (including all five starters) return. The top two tight ends and three of the top four wide receivers stayed. Twelve of the offensive players (Peyton Hillis is the other) came back, as did two of the key offensive assistant coaches (line and running backs). Changes, really, are at quarterback, running back and a couple of receiver spots.

I am certain if Shanahan were back, he would make a move or two at RB and WR. So Kyle Orton and Moreno and Correll Buckhalter and Jabar Gaffney are the major differences, and we can debate the QB situation until the cows return to the residence. Defensively, of course, there are new guys everywhere. But Shanahan left McDaniels Elvis Dumervil, Champ Bailey and D.J. Williams, the three most important players on defense, and what, three or four others overall. Plus, the kicker and the punter are back. McDaniels, though, filled in some seriously-hurting areas: nose tackle, linebacker and secondary.
In regard to your last statement, the Broncos wouldn't have gone deep in the playoffs without injuries. The Broncos would have gone deep into an open pit. They actually were fortunate to go into the last game with a chance to win the division. They should have lost at least two other games and should have finished about 6-10, 7-9

http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_13562380

Beantown Bronco
10-15-2009, 12:06 PM
In regard to your last statement, the Broncos wouldn't have gone deep in the playoffs without injuries. The Broncos would have gone deep into an open pit. They actually were fortunate to go into the last game with a chance to win the division. They should have lost at least two other games and should have finished about 6-10, 7-9[/I]

Weird rebuttal that doesn't make much sense IMO. So, they were one game away from the playoffs WITH all the injuries, but if the injuries didn't happen, they would've lost all those games they "should've" lost and would've ended up being worse?

bpc
10-15-2009, 02:44 PM
Shanahan was not a great coach without Elway.

Period.

You can point to the two losing seasons in a decade and 2 .500 seasons and 6 winning seasons and say "HEy, thats a great coach". But ANY other team in the NFL that went with 6 winning seasons, and 2 losing seasons and 2 .500 seasons in the NFL with only ONE PLAYOFF WIN in that timespan would NOT be considered a great coach.

Shanahan was a brilliant Xs and Os guy but he was one of the worst GMs in the league and since he stopped being the Xs and Os guy long ago and let his OCs take over the game after the scripted plays, Denver became a MEDIOCRE team at best.

This was made even more apparent when Denver lost the best OC they had under Shanahan in Kubiak.

Everyone points to the Superbowls and we are all grateful to Shanahan for helping Elway get a ring but facts are facts. His coaching resume sans-Elway is rather ****ty.

Should I deem this most recent post of stupidity from you with a response Alec?

IF IF IF you take away Elway's years from Shanahan's resume, his career resembles Jeff Fisher's. I don't think anybody would complain about that. 5th best winning percentage over the past 10 years sans Elway. Multiple playoff berths, AFC championship game, etc. That's still good company.

Fact is, you can't take away Elway from Shanahan, just like you can't take Jerry Rice away from Bill Walsh. You can't insinuate *what could* have happened... all we know are FACTS. John Elway was a stranded QB under Reeves and Phillips. He needed help on both sides of the ball to win football games, let alone playoff games and super bowls. Shanahan brought in tow, his running game which relieved the pressure from Elway, Terrell Davis (A HALL OF FAMER), continued to develop great WR options in the form of Shannon Sharpe, Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey, and found ways to pressure opposing offenses off their game with a veteran led bunch of players on defense.

Shanahan the GM was average overall but his first couple years he had some amazing pickups which would fuel a franchise as they went 54-18 over the next four years, including the playoffs and two super bowl wins: TD , Howard Griffith, Vaugn Hebraugn, Derek Loville, Ed McCaffrey, Tony Jones, Harry Swayne, Dan Neil, Trevor Pryce, Neil Smith, Alfred Williams, Keith Traylor, Maa Tanuvasa, John Mobley, Bill Romonowski, Glenn Cadrez, D. Gordon, Darrius Johnson and Tyrone Braxton pt. 2 just to name a few. In fact the main flaw of Shanahan is that those pickups were so good, he could never find a way to eventually replace them to that same level and that's where he got in trouble.

The fact that you say Elway was the only reason for Shanahan's success proves how little you actually know about the job he did or what he meant to this organization. Maybe you were a little late to the bandwagon... Elway was DIRECTIONLESS in Denver during the Phillips era and his career was floundering and dwindling at the same time. It took Shanahan to come in and develop and reload the roster with talent to get John's career going back in the right direction... And if it was only that easy... much like McDaniels is doing this year, Shanahan took over a defense that was ranked dead last in the NFL, and 25th in scoring defense during the 1994 season.

Shanahan was a great head coach along with being a decent GM who unfortunately hung himself out to dry by taking too many chances on character/injury risk type players like Daryl Gardener, Maurice Clarett, Simeon Rice, Travis Henry, etc. Surprisingly, despite the leanness of talent in the final years, he still got a tremendous amount out of the players on the roster, a sign of good coaching. We always were in position to make the playoffs outside of 99' and maybe 07'.

Mike Shanahan will resume coaching some where and will do it at a very high level. I will admire from afar rooting for my Broncos. Until then, the least we fans can do is appreciate the blood, sweat, and tears to make this a truly great NFL franchise over the 15 years he was here.

End of story, no need for any response. GO BRONCOS.

BroncoBuff
10-15-2009, 03:23 PM
Q: Isn't it time that Mike Shanahan gets some of the credit for this year's Broncos? He gave Josh McDaniels one of the best offensive lines in the NFL, and the receiving corps, when including tight ends, may also be the best in the league. If you remember last season, the Broncos had one of the worst injury years ever, and if they had a normal injury year, the Broncos would probably have gone deep into the playoffs.
-- Vince, Superior .

Dear Josh, you're an idiot.

Shanahan did not leave and empty cupboard on offense, true. But he did leave an empty cupboard on defense. Defense has been the weak link for several years now, and that's a big reason why Shanahan was fired.

Josh came in and right away patched up the personnel gaps on defense, and then at QB, and instilled an attitude and energy that is directly responsible for a 5-0 start.

Mike gets 1% of the credit

Josh gets 99% of the credit

maher_tyler
10-15-2009, 03:42 PM
He can throw for over 4k in our system.

I was thinking 30k...

Drek
10-15-2009, 03:43 PM
If Plummer didn't **** a brick vs the Steelers at home we would have won the Super Bowl in 2005.

You could also blame that loss on....

Shanahan's inability to find quality defensive backs (most notably safety) without trading a proven all-pro for another proven all-pro.

Shanahan thinking Stephen Alexander would hold up against Clark Haggans and Joey Porter.

Allowing George Foster to start.

Champ dropping an easy pick.

Ferguson being a horrible safety.

Mike Shanahan coming into the AFCC somehow thinking our undersized, underpowered OL was going to hold up against the big, powerful front seven of Pittsburgh.

The last one is primarily why we got beat. Shanahan and Coyer got out coached on both sides of the ball. The Steelers dictated to us all game, in our house.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-15-2009, 03:50 PM
For Kyle:

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zdoor
10-15-2009, 03:51 PM
i believe this team will be better at the end of the season than they are now. just looking at the last 2 games where we came back in the 2nd half for wins shows a determination and is from good coaching that has the players working their asses off til the end of games.

Mike was great at fast starts, but his teams always faded down the stretch and in games where the team was behind going into the half or 4th quarter, his teams rarely came back, they would simply pack it in. that isn't happening anymore. we may hit a rough patch this season, but unlike Shanahan coached teams, this team isn't going to fold when adversity hits.

I agree. This team has more heart than any team we've had in a long time. You can see improvement week to week and that is VERY encouraging.

bpc
10-15-2009, 04:08 PM
You could also blame that loss on....

Shanahan's inability to find quality defensive backs (most notably safety) without trading a proven all-pro for another proven all-pro.

Shanahan thinking Stephen Alexander would hold up against Clark Haggans and Joey Porter.

Allowing George Foster to start.

Champ dropping an easy pick.

Ferguson being a horrible safety.

Mike Shanahan coming into the AFCC somehow thinking our undersized, underpowered OL was going to hold up against the big, powerful front seven of Pittsburgh.

The last one is primarily why we got beat. Shanahan and Coyer got out coached on both sides of the ball. The Steelers dictated to us all game, in our house.

The fact that Denver was even at that point, to be hosting a championship game, 13-3, AFC West champs was a credit to Shanahan. MIKE SAVED JAKE's career by mitigating his mistakes and in the process probably put forth one of his best coaching jobs to date. He turned the Cleveland Browns DL into winners, he turned Jake into a winner, he busted off two thousand yd backs...

The Pittsburgh game was lost because didn't get catch the breaks that you mentioned (INT by Champ, fumble recovery 1st drive on d), and Jake finally had to step up and play a big boy game and he couldn't. He had two TO's in the 1st half and he couldn't convert third down. Everybody knew Plummer/Denver's weakness with him at the helm was that if we fell behind early, Jake would have to throw the ball to catch up and that's when the TO's came.

Fumble...

INT...

INT...

Fumble...

The turnover right before halftime was a backbreaker because had Jake done anything, maybe we only trail 17-3, maybe we get a FG, 17-6, maybe a TD, 17-10... instead he throws a pick on the 1st pass, 1:55 to go and Pittsburgh scored two or three plays later.

The blitz was late or blocked all day, but they were the reason we were 13-3. We needed something from Jake that day and once again, he failed to deliver.

listopencil
10-15-2009, 04:11 PM
Vince: Superior point, Vince. I actually was going to mention that in a column last week, but got turned around sideways toward something else. Mike Shanahan didn't leave an empty cupboard, despite the appearance of all those changes. I don't have to look this up. Already did. Six of the offensive linemen (including all five starters) return. The top two tight ends and three of the top four wide receivers stayed. Twelve of the offensive players (Peyton Hillis is the other) came back, as did two of the key offensive assistant coaches (line and running backs). Changes, really, are at quarterback, running back and a couple of receiver spots.

I am certain if Shanahan were back, he would make a move or two at RB and WR. So Kyle Orton and Moreno and Correll Buckhalter and Jabar Gaffney are the major differences, and we can debate the QB situation until the cows return to the residence. Defensively, of course, there are new guys everywhere. But Shanahan left McDaniels Elvis Dumervil, Champ Bailey and D.J. Williams, the three most important players on defense, and what, three or four others overall. Plus, the kicker and the punter are back. McDaniels, though, filled in some seriously-hurting areas: nose tackle, linebacker and secondary.
In regard to your last statement, the Broncos wouldn't have gone deep in the playoffs without injuries. The Broncos would have gone deep into an open pit. They actually were fortunate to go into the last game with a chance to win the division. They should have lost at least two other games and should have finished about 6-10, 7-9

http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_13562380



Bull****. Utter and complete bull****. This is so wrong in so many ways...

1) Offensive players returning: This is the most solid argument. Give credit to Shanny for the line, three of the WR's amd the TE's. Bear in mind that he was already trying to copy the O that McD has been running for a few years.

2) Defensive players. Bull****, bull****, bull-mother-****ing-****. We have one guy that is in the same spot. Champ Bailey. Shanny gets credit for aquiring him. He also gets the blame for ****ing over Doom and DJ. He also gets the blame for some of the absolute ****tiest Defenses I've ever had the horror of witnessing wear my beloved orange and blue. I will never forgive him for that. What? The D sucks giant donkey nuts again? Let's fire the DC again. If I were Nolan I probably wouldn't have coached for Shanny at the end. Which brings me to...

3) Coaching staff. What the **** Shanny? Slowick? Really? **** you.

Bronx33
10-15-2009, 04:12 PM
McDaniels is the best thing to happen to Denver in 10 years.

You would have been drawn and quartered if you would have said that 4 months ago in here ;D

Drek
10-15-2009, 04:14 PM
The blitz was late or blocked all day, but they were the reason we were 13-3. We needed something from Jake that day and once again, he failed to deliver.

And Jake needed an offensive gameplan that wouldn't have him constantly draped in blitzing linebackers. That was Shanahan's job and he didn't deliver it.

Could Jake have played better? Sure as hell could have, but Shanahan walked into a back alley brawl expecting to play by Queensberry rules. Our OL was embarrassed out of the gate, and repeatedly thereafter. It wasn't about breaks not going our way or being put in a position where Jake needed to throw. We lost that game in the first five minutes of regulation, and Champ dropping our big break to maybe turn it around was just the icing on the cake.

bpc
10-15-2009, 04:19 PM
Honestly, i don't see how we could have beat Pittsburgh. They were just the best team at the end of the year. We probably peaked much earlier.

I don't disagree with the OL claim. I hated George Foster every day he was a bronco.

Still, Jake was brought into Denver for his playmaking ability, to take a negative play and turn it to a positive. We rarely saw that during his time in Denver, DEFINITELY NOT against good/great teams. He was a horrible big game QB and people wondered by we had to draft a QB................

Shanahan realized Jake could only take us so far. Same with the OL.

He finally had started building that team and we got to see glimpses of Clady, Harris, Cutler last year before it was scrapped and he was let go. It was the first time Shanny ever had or tried to rebuild and he still wouldn't call it that.

Drek
10-15-2009, 04:33 PM
Honestly, i don't see how we could have beat Pittsburgh. They were just the best team at the end of the year. We probably peaked much earlier.

I don't disagree with the OL claim. I hated George Foster every day he was a bronco.

Still, Jake was brought into Denver for his playmaking ability, to take a negative play and turn it to a positive. We rarely saw that during his time in Denver, DEFINITELY NOT against good/great teams. He was a horrible big game QB and people wondered by we had to draft a QB................

Shanahan realized Jake could only take us so far. Same with the OL.

He finally had started building that team and we got to see glimpses of Clady, Harris, Cutler last year before it was scrapped and he was let go. It was the first time Shanny ever had or tried to rebuild and he still wouldn't call it that.
Jake wasn't brought in for his playmaking ability, he was brought in because he's got the a poor man's John Elway skillset, primarily throwing on the run.

It was endemic of the greater problem Shanahan had, which you touched on. It wasn't that Jake could only take us so far, or that those OL in particular could only take us so far. Its that what won in 97 and 98 wasn't going to win in 2005, and definitely not with inferior talent.

Shanahan spent a couple years after the back to back titles trying to win again with what was left of that dynasty. When he failed he tried to restaff that dynasty with similar skillset players, but they weren't those players. Jeb Putzier was pretty fast and ran Sharpe's old receiving routes pretty well, but he could never be the complete player and block like Sharpe, or show that game breaking big play ability. Jake Plummer could throw on the run well enough to run the boots and roll outs we had Elway perform, but he again lacked the other skills that made Elway what he was.

And yes, Shanahan had finally realized that offensively he wasn't going to be able to recycle the same mold from the 97/98 team to get another title. But him understanding and trying to fix that one aspect doesn't mean he wasn't still being grossly negligent with regards to the defensive personnel, coaching staff, and even the week to week offensive play calling that he had largely handed over to Bates last season.

Quite simply, I think Shanahan had lost the fire and was just going through the motions. He thought he was giving it his all, but he had stopped innovating and progressing. The second you stop that in the NFL you become stale and predictable.


Mike Shanahan is the gold standard by which all future Broncos HCs will be measured by (including McDaniels), and I think he'll go to another organization this off-season and build a real winner. But he'd grown complacent here and Bowlen firing him was as much needed for Mike Shanahan as it was for the Broncos.