PDA

View Full Version : moreno and hillis...


tsiguy96
10-13-2009, 08:21 AM
moreno never, ever stops pumping his feet until hes brought down, its awesome to see. now my question is, since moreno is fumbling as bad as hillis has, why is still getting the short yardage carries, where we are clearly not doing well in. hillis has shown he has the power to break through for yardage when we need it most, when does he get out of the doghouse? or get used in the passing game again?

RunSilentRunDeep
10-13-2009, 08:26 AM
Hillis may in fact be a meathead. He forced the team to burn their first timeout when he couldn't figure out where to lineup. He can be a force, hopefully he gets it soon before he completely becomes an afterthought.

bpc
10-13-2009, 08:30 AM
I don't agree completely on Moreno. He's built like a TD but he does not run like TD, not yet anyways. I see him get tackled far too often running through the LOS by linemen that are being blocked. You gotta run through those arm tackles.

It's still early though. Hopefully he keeps progressing.

My problem when we drafted him was in that his upright running style was going to be conducive to him getting injured in the pro's. He got up 3 or 4 times during the NE game acting like he was hurt so i'm still not sold on that front. He may just be an Joseph Addai type that will require a handcuff. It would be nice if that handcuff turned out to be Hillis.

skpac1001
10-13-2009, 08:31 AM
I think its going to take more time for Hillis to figure out this offense, and this offense to figure out how to use Hillis. We will get there eventually, he is too talented not to have some productive role. Somebody else pointed out he probably won't be risked much till Larsen is back though.

c_lazy_r
10-13-2009, 08:31 AM
It's been disappointing that Hillis hasn't been any kind of factor (good anyway...) so far. I expected much more from him.

tsiguy96
10-13-2009, 08:35 AM
bpc, one thing thats frustrating while watching this replay is how many times moreno runs into the back of a lineman. it happens far too often.

Bronco Boy
10-13-2009, 08:38 AM
McD is clearly racist.

TonyR
10-13-2009, 08:41 AM
bpc, one thing thats frustrating while watching this replay is how many times moreno runs into the back of a lineman. it happens far too often.

This could at least partly be due to Wilfork stonewalling our guards and pushing them into the backfield. Knowshon was probably used to things being a little more open in college and hasn't fully adjusted yet. I would expect his vision to get better as the game continues to slow down for him.

orange skier
10-13-2009, 09:30 AM
Brother BPC writes:

"I don't agree completely on Moreno. He's built like a TD but he does not run like TD, not yet anyways. I see him get tackled far too often running through the LOS by linemen that are being blocked. You gotta run through those arm tackles.

It's still early though. Hopefully he keeps progressing.

My problem when we drafted him was in that his upright running style was going to be conducive to him getting injured in the pro's. He got up 3 or 4 times during the NE game acting like he was hurt so i'm still not sold on that front. He may just be an Joseph Addai type that will require a handcuff. It would be nice if that handcuff turned out to be Hillis."



I watched Ricky Williams last night and thought about Moreno....Moreno is a true Pro, with an excellent work ethic.......give him a year or two in the system, and in the weight room, and with Bobby Turner.....and oh my.........we've got something really special here......he's the real deal.........and pairing him with Correll is #$@%ing awesome.......now our boy Hillis......he's having a rough time........with the system........and with life right now..........either he's going to figure it out, or the coaches will find a reduced role for him.....or he's gone next year........he just can't make stupid mistakes.........this offense is built around ball control, sustained drives, no mistakes...........Hillis is making too many mistakes right now.........and Moreno needs to get the fumble thing figured out also.......he will......Bobby Turner will be on his rear end, I'm sure........

rastaman
10-13-2009, 09:32 AM
McD is clearly racist.

Obviously McD thinks he can continue to win w/o Hillis! We will see.

TheDave
10-13-2009, 09:33 AM
Brother BPC writes:

"I don't agree completely on Moreno. He's built like a TD but he does not run like TD, not yet anyways. I see him get tackled far too often running through the LOS by linemen that are being blocked. You gotta run through those arm tackles.

It's still early though. Hopefully he keeps progressing.

My problem when we drafted him was in that his upright running style was going to be conducive to him getting injured in the pro's. He got up 3 or 4 times during the NE game acting like he was hurt so i'm still not sold on that front. He may just be an Joseph Addai type that will require a handcuff. It would be nice if that handcuff turned out to be Hillis."



I watched Ricky Williams last night and thought about Moreno....Moreno is a true Pro, with an excellent work ethic.......give him a year or two in the system, and in the weight room, and with Bobby Turner.....and oh my.........we've got something really special here......he's the real deal.........and pairing him with Correll is #$@%ing awesome.......now our boy Hillis......he's having a rough time........with the system........and with life right now..........either he's going to figure it out, or the coaches will find a reduced role for him.....or he's gone next year........he just can't make stupid mistakes.........this offense is built around ball control, sustained drives, no mistakes...........Hillis is making too many mistakes right now.........and Moreno needs to get the fumble thing figured out also.......he will......Bobby Turner will be on his rear end, I'm sure........

Huh?

rastaman
10-13-2009, 09:35 AM
This could at least partly be due to Wilfork stonewalling our guards and pushing them into the backfield. Knowshon was probably used to things being a little more open in college and hasn't fully adjusted yet. I would expect his vision to get better as the game continues to slow down for him.

Meh! Moreno could use the lead blocking help from a dynamic talented FB named Peyton Hillis. Imagine TD w/o Griffin lead blocking for him. Just saying.

Kaylore
10-13-2009, 09:36 AM
Brother BPC writes:

"I don't agree completely on Moreno. He's built like a TD but he does not run like TD, not yet anyways. I see him get tackled far too often running through the LOS by linemen that are being blocked. You gotta run through those arm tackles.

It's still early though. Hopefully he keeps progressing.

My problem when we drafted him was in that his upright running style was going to be conducive to him getting injured in the pro's. He got up 3 or 4 times during the NE game acting like he was hurt so i'm still not sold on that front. He may just be an Joseph Addai type that will require a handcuff. It would be nice if that handcuff turned out to be Hillis."


I watched Ricky Williams last night and thought about Moreno....Moreno is a true Pro, with an excellent work ethic.......give him a year or two in the system, and in the weight room, and with Bobby Turner.....and oh my.........we've got something really special here......he's the real deal.........and pairing him with Correll is #$@%ing awesome.......now our boy Hillis......he's having a rough time........with the system........and with life right now..........either he's going to figure it out, or the coaches will find a reduced role for him.....or he's gone next year........he just can't make stupid mistakes.........this offense is built around ball control, sustained drives, no mistakes...........Hillis is making too many mistakes right now.........and Moreno needs to get the fumble thing figured out also.......he will......Bobby Turner will be on his rear end, I'm sure........


Why not use the quote button?

What's.....with all....the periods............?

Lev Vyvanse
10-13-2009, 09:43 AM
My problem when we drafted him was in that his upright running style was going to be conducive to him getting injured in the pro's. He got up 3 or 4 times during the NE game acting like he was hurt so i'm still not sold on that front. He may just be an Joseph Addai type that will require a handcuff. It would be nice if that handcuff turned out to be Hillis.

I don't know what you are watching but Moreno's pad level is just fine.

Lev Vyvanse
10-13-2009, 09:44 AM
Why not use the quote button?

What's.....with all....the periods............?

I didn't even try to read it. That was the most visually annoying post I have ever seen.

jhat01
10-13-2009, 10:01 AM
Why not use the quote button?

What's.....with all....the periods............?

Oh those were his ellipses.....He just forgot that only three periods are required. It's good that he did that because that post would have been 19 pages long.

Hercules Rockefeller
10-13-2009, 10:25 AM
Because Hillis got a shot at short yardage carries and didn't do anything? Because Hillis hasn't done anything in other areas that warrants him getting more playing time?

Deuce
10-13-2009, 10:42 AM
bpc, one thing thats frustrating while watching this replay is how many times moreno runs into the back of a lineman. it happens far too often.

They do this because this is how Denver running backs are taught how to run. They are supposed to run to the hole whether it is clogged up or not. They would rather have the backs run into a clogged hole and only gain a yard or two than have them try to freelance and lose yardage.

Archer81
10-13-2009, 10:45 AM
It will come. Hillis will make plays, Moreno will make plays and Buckhalter will make plays, and all will be hunky dory in the Broncos backfield.


:Broncos:

broncocalijohn
10-13-2009, 10:47 AM
I think its going to take more time for Hillis to figure out this offense, and this offense to figure out how to use Hillis. We will get there eventually, he is too talented not to have some productive role. Somebody else pointed out he probably won't be risked much till Larsen is back though.

But using Hillis as a fullback isnt a risk. If you need a FB and have one, you use him. What is the point of saving him unless you want him to go in for Moreno if he gets tired/hurt. We could have used Hillis on the 3rd and inches and we got stuffed. Either use him in that situation as a FB or give him the ball for the short yardage. Moreno didnt follow Hillis on that 4th down play against the Cowboys and it cost us. We need a better plan to use for these short yardages because it has cost us points and first downs.

rastaman
10-13-2009, 10:56 AM
Because Hillis got a shot at short yardage carries and didn't do anything? Because Hillis hasn't done anything in other areas that warrants him getting more playing time?

Hillis has gotten more reps on Special Teams than he has gotten with the first team offense! Point is, Moreno has gotten more reps and playing time than Hillis has gotten. Hillis has not made the turnovers and penalties while playing with the first team offense. However, on special teams Hillis has made mistakes. Makes you wonder how Moreno would have fared on Special Teams? But you don't make your 1st round draft pick risk injury playing ST I understand that. Hillis should have been ahead on the depth chart as the FB/HB this season. But McD probably put him on special teams soon as camp started and there he has basically stayed.

DBroncos4life
10-13-2009, 10:57 AM
Because Hillis got a shot at short yardage carries and didn't do anything? Because Hillis hasn't done anything in other areas that warrants him getting more playing time?

And the winner is...

rastaman
10-13-2009, 10:59 AM
It will come. Hillis will make plays, Moreno will make plays and Buckhalter will make plays, and all will be hunky dory in the Broncos backfield.


:Broncos:

True that. It would just be sad if the 11 games we have remaining, Hillis isn't utilized properly and lose a few we should have won. If defenses had to account for Hillis in the Red Zone, it opens up possibilities for our offense.

Popps
10-13-2009, 11:01 AM
There was no bigger Hillis believer than me last year and going into this season. So, I've been dead wrong about what he'd contribute to this team to this stage.

I still think (and agree) with the majority here that he's vastly talented.

That said, as I posted in the off-season... one person did tell me in private that they had a source that said Hillis was having trouble with the playbook, and wasn't the most coachable player around. I had no reason to believe (or doubt) this person... but the source sounded fairly credible.

Upon hearing this, I ended up doing some digging and found a scouting report in a PDF format that basically said the same thing, before Hillis was a pro. It was a long report that went pretty in-depth that basically said he's a guy who will try to rely on his physical skills and doesn't always take coaching well.

I can't find it right now... but I'll dig. Maybe someone else can.

Doesn't mean any of it is true, but it could be some explanation for what we're seeing now. There's just no question that he's physically gifted enough. Something else is going on...

BroncoMan4ever
10-13-2009, 11:05 AM
Brother BPC writes:

"I don't agree completely on Moreno. He's built like a TD but he does not run like TD, not yet anyways. I see him get tackled far too often running through the LOS by linemen that are being blocked. You gotta run through those arm tackles.

It's still early though. Hopefully he keeps progressing.

My problem when we drafted him was in that his upright running style was going to be conducive to him getting injured in the pro's. He got up 3 or 4 times during the NE game acting like he was hurt so i'm still not sold on that front. He may just be an Joseph Addai type that will require a handcuff. It would be nice if that handcuff turned out to be Hillis."



I watched Ricky Williams last night and thought about Moreno....Moreno is a true Pro, with an excellent work ethic.......give him a year or two in the system, and in the weight room, and with Bobby Turner.....and oh my.........we've got something really special here......he's the real deal.........and pairing him with Correll is #$@%ing awesome.......now our boy Hillis......he's having a rough time........with the system........and with life right now..........either he's going to figure it out, or the coaches will find a reduced role for him.....or he's gone next year........he just can't make stupid mistakes.........this offense is built around ball control, sustained drives, no mistakes...........Hillis is making too many mistakes right now.........and Moreno needs to get the fumble thing figured out also.......he will......Bobby Turner will be on his rear end, I'm sure........

Moreno never fumbled in college, so the fact that he has a few times in his pro career has got to be pissing him off as well. i agree though. he shows flashes of awesome multiple times in the game, just enough that makes you think with a little more experience and some teachings from Turner and he can turn into a beast.

also, another thing to be considered. he has been used exclusively in a part time role all season up til this last weekend, after missing a large portion of practices and basically the entire preseason. he is still a little behind in his development

rastaman
10-13-2009, 11:05 AM
And the winner is...

No one......we all lose b/c Hillis isn't getting the opportunity to show what he can do on 3rd and inces, his power running ability on the goal line, and the mis-matches he presents as a receiver coming out of the backfield. Simply put, Orton, the Defense and the rest of the offensive unit sure could use Hillis.

You give Hillis 14-16 touches a game and this offense could really open up and become not dangerous.....but at least formidable!

RBBC = Moreno and Hillis.

DBroncos4life
10-13-2009, 11:12 AM
No one......we all lose b/c Hillis isn't getting the opportunity to show what he can do on 3rd and inces, his power running ability on the goal line, and the mis-matches he presents as a receiver coming out of the backfield. Simply put, Orton, the Defense and the rest of the offensive unit sure could use Hillis.

You give Hillis 14-16 touches a game and this offense could really open up and become not dangerous.....but at least formidable!

RBBC = Moreno and Hillis.

I think the O is clicking without Hillis, but hey keep on trying to win this war.. LOL

Rohirrim
10-13-2009, 11:22 AM
The running game is the least of my worries about this team. We have Bobby Turner, the Yoda of the running game.

"Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." ;D

jutang
10-13-2009, 11:31 AM
I loved how Moreno was protecting the ball after the fumble. There were a few times he could have gained a few more yards by trying to avoid a few defenders in once he got to the secondary, but he stayed disciplined and never exposed the ball.

Once he puts it all together, he is going to be one scary back.

barryr
10-13-2009, 11:59 AM
Hillis is having a tough enough time not screwing something up whenever he gets on the field at this point.

Hercules Rockefeller
10-13-2009, 12:14 PM
Hillis has gotten more reps on Special Teams than he has gotten with the first team offense! Point is, Moreno has gotten more reps and playing time than Hillis has gotten. Hillis has not made the turnovers and penalties while playing with the first team offense. However, on special teams Hillis has made mistakes. Makes you wonder how Moreno would have fared on Special Teams? But you don't make your 1st round draft pick risk injury playing ST I understand that. Hillis should have been ahead on the depth chart as the FB/HB this season. But McD probably put him on special teams soon as camp started and there he has basically stayed.

What has Hillis done in his 1st team reps? False starts, running up the back of his lineman in short yardage situations, and forcing Denver to burn a timeout on Sunday because he didn't know where to line up. Tell me again why he deserves more playing time with the 1st team offense?

Bronco Yoda
12-19-2009, 04:26 PM
Will Moreno get over 100 yards Sunday? Will he bust one long finally this year?

I say yes!

Los Broncos
12-19-2009, 04:30 PM
Will Moreno get over 100 yards Sunday? Will he bust one long finally this year?

I say yes!

I hope so, he has just missed long runs by a hair.

Shoestring tackles, by an ankle, just needs to avoid that last defender to break one big.

BroncoMan4ever
12-19-2009, 04:32 PM
Will Moreno get over 100 yards Sunday? Will he bust one long finally this year?

I say yes!

i don't really care if he breaks a long run. he is running really great for us lately, and his average of around 4-5 yards per carry is done correct. it isn't the Tatum Bell factor of break a long run to bring up the per carry average. he is pounding the rock for 4 and 5 yards a carry. that is a better accomplishment to be able to do that, than it is to get a long run.

i do agree though that i think he finally gets his 100 yard rushing game this week

Bronco Yoda
12-19-2009, 08:03 PM
He really needs to stop tripping over his own shoes though. Don't you aree?

lex
12-19-2009, 08:14 PM
I don't agree completely on Moreno. He's built like a TD but he does not run like TD, not yet anyways. I see him get tackled far too often running through the LOS by linemen that are being blocked. You gotta run through those arm tackles.

It's still early though. Hopefully he keeps progressing.

My problem when we drafted him was in that his upright running style was going to be conducive to him getting injured in the pro's. He got up 3 or 4 times during the NE game acting like he was hurt so i'm still not sold on that front. He may just be an Joseph Addai type that will require a handcuff. It would be nice if that handcuff turned out to be Hillis.

The other thing is he doesnt run as decisively and he also seems to go to the ground when running into contact, while Davis would run through contact more. Its kind of the same thing as you said but I see this on the edge too.

lex
12-19-2009, 08:20 PM
i don't really care if he breaks a long run. he is running really great for us lately, and his average of around 4-5 yards per carry is done correct. it isn't the Tatum Bell factor of break a long run to bring up the per carry average. he is pounding the rock for 4 and 5 yards a carry. that is a better accomplishment to be able to do that, than it is to get a long run.

i do agree though that i think he finally gets his 100 yard rushing game this week

Put another way, he's done a good job of taking what the line gives him but not as good at creating on his own. Breaking long runs often involves seeing a lane, making a cut, running through a tackle,...something the ball carrier does on his own. For as much wiggle as he ran with in college, there really hasnt been that much creativity...which I suppose is why he put on weight. You have to wonder if he was designated as the inside runner all along.

ZONA
12-19-2009, 09:59 PM
Davis and Moreno have nothing in common except they both have played for the Bulldogs and Broncos. I don't know why so many people want to compare him to TD. He's nothing even close to TD right now, not even close. I am one who for sure thought he would come in and provide alot more highlights then he has. I thought he would end up with about 1200 or 1400 yards but you sure as hell thought he would have a decent highlight reel going. So far, I've not really seen but one spectacular run, the one a few weeks ago where he did his spin move. That TD around the edge was decent but it was not highlight reel stuff.

tsiguy96
12-19-2009, 10:04 PM
someone pointed out something earlier that maybe moreno is starting to think too much again, so worried about fumbles and assignments that hes not running fluidly yet. he is not doing a lot of spectacular, first round stuff yet, but the potential is there so its not as if he wasnt worth the pick. he might be getting overcoached instead of running off instincts more.

Durango
12-19-2009, 10:10 PM
i don't really care if he breaks a long run. he is running really great for us lately, and his average of around 4-5 yards per carry is done correct. it isn't the Tatum Bell factor of break a long run to bring up the per carry average. he is pounding the rock for 4 and 5 yards a carry. that is a better accomplishment to be able to do that, than it is to get a long run.

i do agree though that i think he finally gets his 100 yard rushing game this week

One thing among many that made TD special was that he could slide away from contact at a perfect angle that often made it impossible to get a direct hit on him. Don't get me wrong. TD took plenty of hard hits, but when that first tackler missed, it was 'game on'. Moreno and Hillis both tend to be a straight-up runners who try to barrel through tacklers. Moreno, of course, has much more speed than Hillis, but he still takes too many direct hits. I'm hoping the TD style is something coached by Bobby Turner and not just a running style unique to Davis. I guess only time will tell.

broncocalijohn
12-19-2009, 10:13 PM
I think the O is clicking without Hillis, but hey keep on trying to win this war.. LOL

I wouldnt exactly say that. We have problems with the offense and it is mainly pointed at the Oline.

KipCorrington25
12-19-2009, 10:17 PM
It's awesome when Knowshow is pumping his feet while he fumbles! Gerald Wilehite thinks Knowshow is soft so that's saying something.

TomServo
12-20-2009, 01:30 AM
a healthy denver running back hopes to break 1000? woo freakin hoo.
gimme mike anderson any day. or olandis or... with the ZB any healthy back could break 1K in our old system Oyah Mcd knows better..
thank goodness we spent a # 1 on this guy

BroncoBuff
12-20-2009, 01:32 AM
Hillis may in fact be a meathead. He forced the team to burn their first timeout when he couldn't figure out where to lineup.
Meathead or no meathead, he should be in there. Short yardage is not complicated. Even if Knowshon gets the rock, I'd rather see Hillis with him in there than Hochstein.

TomServo
12-20-2009, 01:38 AM
and knowshon held out if anyone recalls. wasted wasted #1 pick. Number 1 Yah

Bronco Warrior
12-20-2009, 10:21 AM
Hillis could be used to run the ball from the FB position or flanked out as an H Back or TE like McD said they were going to use him in Training Camp! People forget that Jim Brown was a FB too. In the old days both Backs were a thread to run the ball on any given play! Hell even in H.S. our FBs touched the ball 5-10 plays a game

strafen
12-20-2009, 10:35 AM
Hillis may in fact be a meathead. He forced the team to burn their first timeout when he couldn't figure out where to lineup. He can be a force, hopefully he gets it soon before he completely becomes an afterthought.We didn't lose the game did we?
You're complaining he cost us a time out?
That's just too frakin' funny!

About the fact that Moreno could have done better in a winnable game against Indy?
That cost us the game, not a time out!
With Moreno we have no way of establishing any kind of respectable running game we can compliment our passing game with.
That's a fact that has played out all season long.

I've said myself, I've heard it all week long, and I've heard it today in the radio...
MCDaniels wants to play his controversial 1st round pick to justify his action. Playing Hillis will make Moreno look bad.
I'm sure all you Moreno's supporters deep inside and in a quiet fashion feel the same way, but won't admit it...

Bronco Warrior
12-20-2009, 10:42 AM
When we Zone Block Moreno shines...it fits his style better. when we use the "Joshie knows best" trap and pull crap not so much for Moreno. Atleast J Mc didn't thow out the ZBS completely!

DBroncos4life
12-20-2009, 11:01 AM
I bet we could have drafted Brian Orakpo at 12 and Moreno at 18. The only way Moreno would have been picked between then is if someone moved up.

Durango
12-20-2009, 12:29 PM
I bet we could have drafted Brian Orakpo at 12 and Moreno at 18. The only way Moreno would have been picked between then is if someone moved up.


I agree completely, and if Moreno was gone before 18, a bevy of excellent RBs remained available at that draft slot. #12 was a reach. Not a huge reach given the hype, but a reach.

DBroncos4life
12-20-2009, 12:41 PM
I agree completely, and if Moreno was gone before 18, a bevy of excellent RBs remained available at that draft slot. #12 was a reach. Not a huge reach given the hype, but a reach.

Wells didn't get drafted till 31st so I think we would have been OK to risk Moreno slipping to 18th.

Inkana7
12-20-2009, 12:53 PM
I bet we could have drafted Brian Orakpo at 12 and Moreno at 18. The only way Moreno would have been picked between then is if someone moved up.

Um. Not when the Chargers had designs on him. And they were at #16, if I recall.

DBroncos4life
12-20-2009, 01:26 PM
Um. Not when the Chargers had designs on him. And they were at #16, if I recall.

Possibly but I don't buy into the we would have drafted him if they didn't pick him talk. Wells is a very talented back and they went with English.

MaloCS
12-20-2009, 02:04 PM
I hope Hillis reunites with Shanny in Washington next year. I know if I was Hillis I would want out of this town and away from the dumb ass coach.

Popps
12-20-2009, 02:10 PM
I hope Hillis reunites with Shanny in Washington next year. I know if I was Hillis I would want out of this town and away from the dumb ass coach.

:rofl:

Yea. NFL teams are banging down the door for Hillis. He's got a ton of leverage.

rastaman
12-20-2009, 04:20 PM
:rofl:

Yea. NFL teams are banging down the door for Hillis. He's got a ton of leverage.

Hillis would be better off leaving the NFL for one year just to force a trade or getting out of his contract vs dealing with McD for the next two years and risk suffering a career ending injury while McD experiments putting Peyton on ST's. I mean.....who needs to put up with that BS!!!