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Vegas_Bronco
10-12-2009, 10:14 AM
AP - NFL referees are investigating the 4th quarter game film of Sunday's matchup between the Broncos and Patriots. Within Denver driving inside the red zone, Kyle Orton's pass sailed by the outstretched arms of Bronco receiver, Eddie Royal. Seconds later, Patriots safety Brandon Meriweather got up and lingered over Royal celebrating the well defended play....but, also catching the eye of the sideline judge who quickly threw a flag on Merriweather for 'taunting' the opposing receiver. The play is controversial

NFL Head Investigative Official, Treyshon Sweettarts released a statement Monday morning, "The film shows the sideline judge pulling a flag out and throwing the flag before the incident occurred...so, we are investigating this incident. There were 2 flags on the field at the time and the film shows only one referee pulling a flag - we have no idea where the 2nd flag came from. We are still investigating the play."

On the ensuing play, Orton hit Marshall for an 11 yard TD reception tying the game at 17. Denver would go on to win the game in overtime.

Hogan11
10-12-2009, 10:16 AM
And so it begins....

Just call it karma for Brady's bullshat last week and call it good.

Tombstone RJ
10-12-2009, 10:18 AM
Pay back for the phantom call on the punt that extended the Pats drive...

chex
10-12-2009, 10:19 AM
This has to be a joke.

brncs_fan
10-12-2009, 10:20 AM
I saw that as I was watching the game. My eventual assessment was that the referee originally threw the flag for interference. The interference penalty was a not going to stick (I think someone tipped it making PI invalid) but since he had thrown the flag already he simply changed it to taunting.

orangeatheist
10-12-2009, 10:21 AM
and so it begins....

Just call it karma for brady's bullshat last week and call it good.

qft

v2micca
10-12-2009, 10:22 AM
Phantom call? Dude, I think the rule is bullsh*t, especially when even incidental contact gets you a flag, but there was nothing phantom about it. He ran right into the Punter's leg.

Bronco X
10-12-2009, 10:23 AM
Maybe the videotaped official meant to call pass interference, which would have been the wrong call because it was tipped, and the taunting was called by the other official. One things for sure we know there's no conspiracy or bias that would go against the Pats.

Tombstone RJ
10-12-2009, 10:23 AM
Phantom call? Dude, I think the rule is bullsh*t, especially when even incidental contact gets you a flag, but there was nothing phantom about it. He ran right into the Punter's leg.

There was contact when the Bronocs punted, slight contact but contact nontheless, yet no flag... why?

Phantom call my friend, just deal with it.

GoBroncos DownUnder
10-12-2009, 10:26 AM
I saw the flag come out WAY before the Pats player allegedly "taunted" Royal, but I could have sworn he said "YEAH, BITCH!" as he did the flex over Eddie ... I could be wrong though.

chex
10-12-2009, 10:27 AM
There was contact when the Bronocs punted, slight contact but contact nontheless, yet no flag... why?

Phantom call my friend, just deal with it.

It's funny, isn't it? Brady gets the call because Suggs almost tagged him, yet Kern has to do ballet to get out of the way and nothing is called.

Don Flamenco
10-12-2009, 10:29 AM
I saw that as I was watching the game. My eventual assessment was that the referee originally threw the flag for interference. The interference penalty was a not going to stick (I think someone tipped it making PI invalid) but since he had thrown the flag already he simply changed it to taunting.

I was thinking the same thing. Or the other flag was for PI that eventually got picked up for a tip or not

Vegas_Bronco
10-12-2009, 10:31 AM
Hint: This photo is key piece in the investigation....to the 2nd flag appearing on the field....And Treyshon Sweettarts?...damn!

McDman
10-12-2009, 10:32 AM
There is no way this article is legit, c'mon guys. It says the head investigators name is Treyshon Sweettarts...

Kaylore
10-12-2009, 10:34 AM
That's a funny article.

gyldenlove
10-12-2009, 10:35 AM
The first flag was definitely defensive PI, but when the ball was tipped that became an uncatchable ball and the PI was not valid, the second flag looked like it came from the back judge who was not in shot at the time and was the taunting call.

There is no doubt that Meriweather made a gesture at Royal after he got up and yelled something, the side judge was right there and can probably repeat what Meriweather said.

TheDave
10-12-2009, 10:35 AM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=25189&stc=1&d=1255364069

That picture is begging to be photoshopped...

Someone needs to put a wad of cash in Marshalls left hand. ;D

Mr. Elway
10-12-2009, 10:37 AM
They will definitely be looking at this from what I read - and clearly the flag came before the taunt. I agree with brncs_fan that he threw the flag for something else (I inititally thought it might be a late hit?) but then realized that was a bad call, but then Meriweather did taunt him, but he had already thrown the flag.

No matter what, the taunting was a legit call from all appearances, and it's pretty safe to say the Pats have had their share of friendly calls.

80smith
10-12-2009, 10:37 AM
I thought I saw the defender led with his helmet

brncs_fan
10-12-2009, 10:37 AM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=25189&stc=1&d=1255364069

That picture is begging to be photoshopped...

Someone needs to put a wad of cash in Marshalls left hand. ;D

You meen besides the flag that has been inserted into picture?

Vegas_Bronco
10-12-2009, 10:38 AM
That picture is begging to be photoshopped...

Someone needs to put a wad of cash in Marshalls left hand. ;D

The irony of this statement has me :rofl:

I even left some yellow photoshop fragments on the pants of the referee...here is the real photo:

TheDave
10-12-2009, 10:38 AM
You meen besides the flag that has been inserted into picture?

Still like the money better... ;D

RunSilentRunDeep
10-12-2009, 10:41 AM
Joking aside, I thought the flag was going to be for a personal foul. Meriweather hit Royal helmet-to-helmet in the back of the head while not trying to make a play on the ball. Not sure if the tipped ball eliminates the "defenseless receiver" rule. But it was clearly an unnecessary spear to the head.

Irish Stout
10-12-2009, 10:43 AM
Did no one actually listen to Simms in the booth?

He said in summary: There were two flags from two different refs thrown at two different times, the first was from the first ref who was there at the spot of Royal and Merriweather. The one at the spot clearly was pulling his flag before the taunting, either believing it was PI or a late hit out of bounds. Either way it did not matter as the second flag came after the taunting from another ref. They simply did not call PI or late hit as those two things probably didn't occur, but the taunting sure did and another ref caught it and flagged it.

Simple, the wrong foul was ignored and the right foul was called by another ref who was not in the camera shot.

cmhargrove
10-12-2009, 10:58 AM
Did no one actually listen to Simms in the booth?

He said in summary: There were two flags from two different refs thrown at two different times, the first was from the first ref who was there at the spot of Royal and Merriweather. The one at the spot clearly was pulling his flag before the taunting, either believing it was PI or a late hit out of bounds. Either way it did not matter as the second flag came after the taunting from another ref. They simply did not call PI or late hit as those two things probably didn't occur, but the taunting sure did and another ref caught it and flagged it.

Simple, the wrong foul was ignored and the right foul was called by another ref who was not in the camera shot.

Exactly - two flags, no controversy.

Bronco Boy
10-12-2009, 11:06 AM
I think I see Jesus on Brandon Marshall's arm. It is mysterious, but considering this new information we should definitely resign him.

s0phr0syne
10-12-2009, 11:11 AM
lolol, come on guys, I expect people like Keith Olbermann and Rich Eisen to get this wrong since all they're doing is saying what their producers tell them to, but ANYONE who watched the game knows that there were two different flags thrown during/after the play and that the "premature" flag was by the ref calling Def. PI and that the 2nd flag (NOT SEEN) was thrown by a diff ref for the taunting.

It's pretty sad that the OP bought into whatever the media is selling.

Rohirrim
10-12-2009, 11:17 AM
I think we need to call the Gaffer out of the Gaffobunker to look into this. I thought I saw a flag tossed down from the grassy knoll.

baja
10-12-2009, 11:17 AM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=25189&stc=1&d=1255364069

That picture is begging to be photoshopped...

Someone needs to put a wad of cash in Marshalls left hand. ;D

It already is photoshoped

DeusExManning
10-12-2009, 11:20 AM
Initially they were going to call pass interference but the flag would have been pulled since the ball was tipped. That referee did not have a second flag to throw when Merriweather taunted Royal. If he had not taunted Royal, they would have pulled the flag for a no call.

TheDave
10-12-2009, 11:20 AM
It already is photoshoped

Yeah, I know that... Now. ;D

baja
10-12-2009, 11:22 AM
Yeah, I know that... Now. ;D

Now that I read the rest of the thread I see that. :notworthy

Cito Pelon
10-12-2009, 11:23 AM
I saw the flag come out WAY before the Pats player allegedly "taunted" Royal, but I could have sworn he said "YEAH, b****!" as he did the flex over Eddie ... I could be wrong though.

I don't know if you're kidding or not, but I'd lean in the direction that it was something the Pats guy said before he pointed the finger.

Also, he speared Royal long after the ball was tipped away, so it was a cumulative kind of thing. The bottom line is it was an "unsportsmanlike" penalty.

Garcia Bronco
10-12-2009, 11:32 AM
Phantom call? Dude, I think the rule is bullsh*t, especially when even incidental contact gets you a flag, but there was nothing phantom about it. He ran right into the Punter's leg.

That wasn't why the rule was put in place.

dbfan21
10-12-2009, 11:35 AM
Did no one actually listen to Simms in the booth?

He said in summary: There were two flags from two different refs thrown at two different times, the first was from the first ref who was there at the spot of Royal and Merriweather. The one at the spot clearly was pulling his flag before the taunting, either believing it was PI or a late hit out of bounds. Either way it did not matter as the second flag came after the taunting from another ref. They simply did not call PI or late hit as those two things probably didn't occur, but the taunting sure did and another ref caught it and flagged it.

Simple, the wrong foul was ignored and the right foul was called by another ref who was not in the camera shot.

Bingo! Great post...thanks!!

Mogulseeker
10-12-2009, 11:51 AM
Maybe it was a makeup call.

This was the second poorest officiated game I have ever seen. The worst one was my freshmen year in high school, we were playing a small-town team, in the small town, with refs from that small town, employed by the team we were playing... that's the only game I can think of that was poorer-officiated than yesterdays game.

I was at the game. Let me tell you, the NFL better be on this. I just can't understand why there's one set of rules for the Pats and a different set for the rest of the league. The Pats o-line was getting away with murder on every single pass play.

Dumervil was held on almost every single play.

There were two calls the probably should have been grounding.

I wasn't close enough to tell for sure, but any number of the plays where the Pats secondary TACKLED Royal before the ball was anywhere near him could and probably should have been interference.

There are some others as well.

Mogulseeker
10-12-2009, 11:52 AM
Pay back for the phantom call on the punt that extended the Pats drive...

Yep, another one here. On the false start.

listopencil
10-12-2009, 12:10 PM
It was me, I admit it. I modified an air rifle to shoot flags onto the field at opportune times. I didn't think anyone would catch it.

jpmclane
10-12-2009, 12:10 PM
I figured the ref threw the flag to call helmet to helmet hit which could have easily been called, but since the pass was tipped, it may have negated that hit, but then the taunted happened so he could switch his call to taunting, I don't think the second flag would have been for taunting, the taunting happened right in front of the ref that threw the first flag.

The call that got me upset was the sack of Orton with 30 sec. left. Watch the blitzer roll into Orton's leg, even if his intention was not to hit his leg, it is my understanding that a hit in the leg is a hit in the leg - surprised Phil Simms didn't even mention it, after defending the Brady phantom knee hit last week.

listopencil
10-12-2009, 12:12 PM
Maybe it was a makeup call.

This was the second poorest officiated game I have ever seen. The worst one was my freshmen year in high school, we were playing a small-town team, in the small town, with refs from that small town, employed by the team we were playing... that's the only game I can think of that was poorer-officiated than yesterdays game.

I was at the game. Let me tell you, the NFL better be on this. I just can't understand why there's one set of rules for the Pats and a different set for the rest of the league. The Pats o-line was getting away with murder on every single pass play.

Dumervil was held on almost every single play.

There were two calls the probably should have been grounding.

I wasn't close enough to tell for sure, but any number of the plays where the Pats secondary TACKLED Royal before the ball was anywhere near him could and probably should have been interference.

There are some others as well.

Yeah- Doom was getting mugged like crazy. The LT had his hands buried up under Doom's shoulder pads on every single play, trying to lift him up to cancel Dooms' leverage. And Royal was constantly smacked around.

WolfpackGuy
10-12-2009, 12:19 PM
Merriweather must've said something to Royal.
Besides, he should've been flagged for hitting him the back like that.
I thought "Defenseless" hits were points of emphasis this year?

misturanderson
10-12-2009, 12:35 PM
You know, I honestly felt like this was one of the few games where we didn't get screwed constantly by the refs. I don't think either team had a clear advantage in the calls they got/didn't get. There was one play though where a defender flew at Orton's legs that would have been roughing the passer against Brady.

On that specific play however, I thought it was clearly a flag for the helmet-to-helmet hit. Not sure why that wasn't called. I guess just to save time or something.

Tombstone RJ
10-12-2009, 12:41 PM
Maybe it was a makeup call.

This was the second poorest officiated game I have ever seen. The worst one was my freshmen year in high school, we were playing a small-town team, in the small town, with refs from that small town, employed by the team we were playing... that's the only game I can think of that was poorer-officiated than yesterdays game.

I was at the game. Let me tell you, the NFL better be on this. I just can't understand why there's one set of rules for the Pats and a different set for the rest of the league. The Pats o-line was getting away with murder on every single pass play.

Dumervil was held on almost every single play.

There were two calls the probably should have been grounding.

I wasn't close enough to tell for sure, but any number of the plays where the Pats secondary TACKLED Royal before the ball was anywhere near him could and probably should have been interference.

There are some others as well.

This.

IMHO, the refs tried to give the pats as many breaks as possible, but I was expecting that from them.

Calling the Broncos on ticky-tack crap and ignoring all the calls that should have been made on the pats.

Pretty much crapola by the refs.

OBF1
10-12-2009, 12:55 PM
Did no one actually listen to Simms in the booth?

He said in summary: There were two flags from two different refs thrown at two different times, the first was from the first ref who was there at the spot of Royal and Merriweather. The one at the spot clearly was pulling his flag before the taunting, either believing it was PI or a late hit out of bounds. Either way it did not matter as the second flag came after the taunting from another ref. They simply did not call PI or late hit as those two things probably didn't occur, but the taunting sure did and another ref caught it and flagged it.

Simple, the wrong foul was ignored and the right foul was called by another ref who was not in the camera shot.



Finally, someone actully paid attention. REP

cutthemdown
10-12-2009, 01:29 PM
I thought I saw the defender lead with his helmet

I thought it was also for hitting Royal helmet to helmet while he could not protect himself. I was surprised when it was for taunting.

Who cares though if all Pats can do is whine about calls that means we have arrived.

Cito Pelon
10-12-2009, 02:10 PM
I'll point out after all this that was a nice throw and a nice pattern. A pattern saved til crunch time, and only an exceptional hand on the ball by the NE guy saved the TD.

Bronx33
10-12-2009, 03:09 PM
Merriweather has a bigmouth.

orange 4 life
10-12-2009, 03:28 PM
I saw that as I was watching the game. My eventual assessment was that the referee originally threw the flag for interference. The interference penalty was a not going to stick (I think someone tipped it making PI invalid) but since he had thrown the flag already he simply changed it to taunting.

Hammer meet nail.

I didn't notice it AT the game, but I did while watching it again at home.
Yes, the flag was DEFINATELY pulled before the taunting, and yes, I believe it was going to be for interference.
Between the borderline cheap shot hit AND the subsequent taunting, I think the ref called the foul he was certain would stick.

Good for him.

Clockwork Orange
10-12-2009, 03:35 PM
Did no one actually listen to Simms in the booth?

He said in summary: There were two flags from two different refs thrown at two different times, the first was from the first ref who was there at the spot of Royal and Merriweather. The one at the spot clearly was pulling his flag before the taunting, either believing it was PI or a late hit out of bounds. Either way it did not matter as the second flag came after the taunting from another ref. They simply did not call PI or late hit as those two things probably didn't occur, but the taunting sure did and another ref caught it and flagged it.

Simple, the wrong foul was ignored and the right foul was called by another ref who was not in the camera shot.

Bingo.

Merriweather was arguing with the official who threw the second flag, not the one who threw the first. The first flag was picked up after the officials conferenced, but the taunting penalty was clear cut and appropriately called.

There's no controversy here. Everything was called correctly, the only mistake in the entire sequence was that the first flag shouldn't have been thrown.

enjolras
10-12-2009, 03:55 PM
It should have been a unnecessary roughness (defenseless receiver) call. That ball wasn't even close.

mr007
10-12-2009, 03:58 PM
Merriweather must've said something to Royal.
Besides, he should've been flagged for hitting him the back like that.
I thought "Defenseless" hits were points of emphasis this year?

He wasn't "defenseless." Defenseless is pretty much a complete blindside hit while going opposite directions. Also, pretty sure it doesn't apply to catchable balls.

misturanderson
10-12-2009, 04:14 PM
He wasn't "defenseless." Defenseless is pretty much a complete blindside hit while going opposite directions. Also, pretty sure it doesn't apply to catchable balls.

It was helmet to helmet though. Or at least he led with his helmet.