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10-06-2009, 11:00 AM
How I See It: AFC West Stock Watch

October 6, 2009 11:00 AM

» NFC Stock Watch: East | West | North | South » AFC: East | West | North | South

Posted by ESPN.com’s Bill Williamson

Falling

1. Oakland’s passing game: Oakland coach Tom Cable said the team dropped nine passes from JaMarcus Russell in a 23-point loss to the Texans. Cable was protecting his quarterback a bit. Russell still wasn’t good Sunday, but he does need help from his receivers. Russell called out his receivers somewhat after the game. Yes, he needs help, but he needs to help his receivers as well.

2. Kansas City Chiefs: The Chiefs appear to be getting worse. They competed in their first two games. Kansas City has been blown out of its last two games.

The Chiefs are not playing winning football in any phase right now and they look like they are a candidate to lose 14 to 16 games.

3. San Diego Chargers defense: The Chargers allowed 497 yards of total offense in a 38-28 loss at Pittsburgh Sunday night. The San Diego defense had been playing fairly well, but it was ravaged by the Steelers in both the passing and running game. San Diego has a bye this week. It has to tighten the defense during its time off.

Rising

1. Denver Broncos: The skeptics thought Denver would implode once a tough 10-game stretch began in Week 4 against Dallas.

But the Broncos began the difficult stretch with a 17-10 win over the talented Cowboys. Denver not only showed it can hang with a solid team, but it showed it could make the big plays on both sides of the ball to win.

Marshall
2. Brandon Marshall, wide receiver, Broncos: Marshall showed Sunday that he is one of the most talented receivers in the NFL. He helped Denver win with a 51-yard catch and run in the final moments to beat Dallas.

Marshall does things few receivers can do in the NFL. He is special. He got off to a slow start in new coach Josh McDaniels’ system because of off-field issues. But Marshall proved Sunday that he can be a big help to the Denver offense.

Orton
3. Kyle Orton, quarterback, Broncos: Yes, this category is a Denver sweep. But what do you want? Every other AFC West team lost by double digits Sunday and the Broncos are 4-0. Orton, believe it or not, is a big reason why Denver is unbeaten.

A throw-in in the Jay Cutler trade with Chicago, Orton is not spectacular. But he gets the job done and he is a good fit for McDaniels’ offense. Orton has not thrown an interception in four games and just keeps chugging along.

Paladin
10-06-2009, 11:06 AM
Good stuff. Some of our "uneducated" members should read this closely.......

baja
10-06-2009, 11:06 AM
Jelly Roll - A throw-in in the Jay Cutler trade with Chicago, Orton is not spectacular. But he gets the job done and he is a good fit for McDaniels’ offense. Orton has not thrown an interception in four games and just keeps chugging along.



Wrong! Orton was not a throw-in, that trade was made with Chicago because of Orton and better offers (Washington) were turned down because of Orton.

Broncos4tw
10-06-2009, 11:46 AM
Well, to be fair, if our defense hadn't improved by the leaps and bounds that it had, we could easily be in a much worse situation. If our opponents were scoring like they were last year, would our current offense get the job done? Not likely.

BroncoMan4ever
10-06-2009, 01:38 PM
Wrong! Orton was not a throw-in, that trade was made with Chicago because of Orton and better offers (Washington) were turned down because of Orton.

i am glad that McDaniels was smart enough to say no to a trade that more than likely would have yielded them a top 5 pick in the 2010 draft, for a lesser trade that got him the QB he knew could execute his offense really well. just imagine, we could have Jason Campbell starting for us at this moment.

baja
10-06-2009, 01:40 PM
Well, to be fair, if our defense hadn't improved by the leaps and bounds that it had, we could easily be in a much worse situation. <b> If our opponents were scoring like they were last year, would our current offense get the job done? Not likely.

You're right but things are falling our way for a change. First we get an easy schedule early while our O plays itself into a cohesive team while learning a new system, now we are much more ready to face the better teams like NE & SD. Next we get a Bye at the perfect time we will need a breather after the next two weeks. If Orton and the WRs take the next step we have a great chance to be 6 & 0 or 5 & 1. I have felt all along we will go into the bye 6 & 0 which would be quite an accomplishment.

Shanny's teams were bit by the injury bug for the last few years. Josh comes in and makes the guys hit in TC and emphasizes stretching, I will be watching to see if the injuries diminish because if this team is to make noise this season we must avoid the key injuries.

DBroncos4life
10-06-2009, 01:40 PM
Wrong! Orton was not a throw-in, that trade was made with Chicago because of Orton and better offers (Washington) were turned down because of Orton.

Was this ever confirmed?

oubronco
10-06-2009, 01:43 PM
Was this ever confirmed?

Not likely

baja
10-06-2009, 01:48 PM
Was this ever confirmed?

Confirmed? Not sure but it was heavily discussed in the National press. There were many stories about how aggressive Snyder was pursuing Cutler and the deal breaker was Jason Campbell, McD wanted Orton.

cutthemdown
10-06-2009, 01:55 PM
People point out its the defense winning games. Well Mcdaniels gets credit for that as well. He is the head coach, in charge of both sides of the ball when it comes down to it.

He was smart enough to know his thing is offense and he wisely lured a 3-4 mastermind with a Superbowl defense under his belt to Denver.

Being a good head coach is a hard job.

Mcdaniels deserves almost all the credit for the 4-0 start. People said he was an egomaniac but I think it was other peoples egos that were the problem. Bus Cook, Jay Cutler, Marshall. He was able to forge a great relationship with Marshall which is a credit to both men. It's not easy to do things like that, men are stubborn mules for the most part.

cutthemdown
10-06-2009, 01:57 PM
You're right but things are falling our way for a change. First we get an easy schedule early while our O plays itself into a cohesive team while learning a new system, now we are much more ready to face the better teams like NE & SD. Next we get a Bye at the perfect time we will need a breather after the next two weeks. If Orton and the WRs take the next step we have a great chance to be 6 & 0 or 5 & 1. I have felt all along we will go into the bye 6 & 0 which would be quite an accomplishment.

Shanny's teams were bit by the injury bug for the last few years. Josh comes in and makes the guys hit in TC and emphasizes stretching, I will be watching to see if the injuries diminish because if this team is to make noise this season we must avoid the key injuries.

The thing Mcdaniels said he noticed most was the 15 pounds per player weight drop between start of season and end of season. He thought the players were eating enough calories and he boosted those.

The team is being run totally different. It's really something they are off to such a great start.

Are we going to hang with the mighty Patriots. The darlings of the NFL. The QB in the plastic bubble? Stay tuned Broncos fans!!!

Merlin
10-06-2009, 02:15 PM
He was able to forge a great relationship with Marshall which is a credit to both men.
That is more likely the result of his learning after his initial screw-up in handling their egos....and there is nothing wrong with that. I was initially pissed, because it seemed he was in the mold of Mangini; i.e. does not learn from his mistakes. However, he clearly has shown he is far better at learning, and whatever mistakes he makes, he learns and moves on. You take that attitude with his intelligence and arrogance and you can have the makings of a great coach. The one thing that remains unclear is how they will handle talent evaluation and the draft, I hope Bowlen is right and that was just another learning experience for him.

DBroncos4life
10-06-2009, 02:28 PM
Confirmed? Not sure but it was heavily discussed in the National press. There were many stories about how aggressive Snyder was pursuing Cutler and the deal breaker was Jason Campbell, McD wanted Orton.

It was never more then a rumor or media speculation. I remember them claiming that McD looked at film of Tampa, Washington, and Chicago but no one knows what was offered. You can spin it however you want to make it sound like Orton was the deal breaker. McDaniels nor anyone in Denver ever said the Redskins offered more but we went with Orton and the lower picks.

bowtown
10-06-2009, 02:38 PM
Wrong! Orton was not a throw-in, that trade was made with Chicago because of Orton and better offers (Washington) were turned down because of Orton.

I have been asked 3 times this year, in bars, by fans of other teams, why in the world Denver would trade Jay Cutler for Kyle Orton straight up.

Tankgunner95
10-06-2009, 02:42 PM
Well, to be fair, if our defense hadn't improved by the leaps and bounds that it had, we could easily be in a much worse situation. If our opponents were scoring like they were last year, would our current offense get the job done? Not likely.

If my aunt had a D!ck she would be my uncle whats your point?

Los Broncos
10-06-2009, 03:40 PM
2. Kansas City Chiefs: The Chiefs appear to be getting worse. LMAO!

Rohirrim
10-06-2009, 03:52 PM
Watching a couple of Cheffie games it appears to me that Haley is such an ahole that the players have already turned him off. Playin' for a paycheck, baby! :thumbs:

lazarus4444
10-06-2009, 03:58 PM
I have been asked 3 times this year, in bars, by fans of other teams, why in the world Denver would trade Jay Cutler for Kyle Orton straight up.

lol, sometimes the way people talk around here they really do think it was a straight up trade. We are winning this trade so far by a lot, we raped the bears in this one (barring an orton implosion)...

BroncoInSkinland
10-06-2009, 04:00 PM
2. Kansas City Chiefs: The Chiefs appear to be getting worse. LMAO!

See, obviously this writer is a hack, it isn't possible for the Chiefs to get any worse.

http://www.instantrimshot.com/

BroncoBuff
10-06-2009, 04:21 PM
Orton
3. Kyle Orton, quarterback, Broncos: Yes, this category is a Denver sweep. But what do you want? Every other AFC West team lost by double digits Sunday and the Broncos are 4-0. Orton, believe it or not, is a big reason why Denver is unbeaten.

A throw-in in the Jay Cutler trade with Chicago, Orton is not spectacular. ...

A "throw in"?!

carlosgmz1
10-06-2009, 05:00 PM
i am glad that McDaniels was smart enough to say no to a trade that more than likely would have yielded them a top 5 pick in the 2010 draft, for a lesser trade that got him the QB he knew could execute his offense really well. just imagine, we could have Jason Campbell starting for us at this moment.

Are you being sarcastic cuz I would have been happier had we traded with the redskins. They'll give us higher draft picks and I think jason campbell could be really good with a good team around him

Paladin
10-06-2009, 05:07 PM
The Faiders seem to have quit as well.

Killericon
10-06-2009, 05:35 PM
It was never more then a rumor or media speculation. I remember them claiming that McD looked at film of Tampa, Washington, and Chicago but no one knows what was offered. You can spin it however you want to make it sound like Orton was the deal breaker. McDaniels nor anyone in Denver ever said the Redskins offered more but we went with Orton and the lower picks.

There was never anything more than specualtion about the trades, but McDaniels spent a lot of time looking at tape of both Campbell and Luke McCown.

JJJ
10-06-2009, 05:46 PM
Melt down mode in SD after that raping by the Steelers. Getting ugly on the Bolt boards.

Keys to the division are there for the taking. But Elvis is going to have ask Rivers for them. Lets see if turns them over.

What happens in your Pats game ahead of the Charger game will bring an interesting psychology to Monday nighter. If you get a beatdown it will breath life in a disoriented Charger team. If you play NE tough you will definitely have a huge edge coming.

Arkie
10-06-2009, 06:01 PM
i am glad that McDaniels was smart enough to say no to a trade that more than likely would have yielded them a top 5 pick in the 2010 draft, for a lesser trade that got him the QB he knew could execute his offense really well. just imagine, we could have Jason Campbell starting for us at this moment.

Even with Cutler being added to a mediocre 17-15 team over the last 2 years?

Los Broncos
10-06-2009, 06:09 PM
See, obviously this writer is a hack, it isn't possible for the Chiefs to get any worse.

http://www.instantrimshot.com/

Man, them and Oakland flat out suck I cant imagine getting that low.

I'm sure happy we hired McDaniels, I'm drinking the Orton McDaniels with coke.

Merlin
10-06-2009, 06:48 PM
We are winning this trade so far by a lot, we raped the bears in this one (barring an orton implosion)...
How so? They would have been 1-3 without Cutler this year. Orton has done fine by us, but Cutler has been critical to them.

misturanderson
10-06-2009, 06:55 PM
Well, to be fair, if our defense hadn't improved by the leaps and bounds that it had, we could easily be in a much worse situation. If our opponents were scoring like they were last year, would our current offense get the job done? Not likely.

Are you retarded? You are aware that our defense DID in fact improve by leaps and bounds, right? And that the same person that has shouldered most of the blame for our former QB running out of town (which in turn may have had some impact on our offensive output), is the primary reason that our defense has improved so much. You realize that as well, right?

broncswin
10-06-2009, 07:12 PM
If my aunt had a D!ck she would be my uncle whats your point?

:saywhat:

uplink
10-06-2009, 08:32 PM
Was this ever confirmed?

I doubt Orton could be called a 'throw in' since its likely the Bears would have
loved to have had him as their 2nd QB. A very important spot on a team, he would have been one of the best 2nd QBs in the league and would have been familiar with the system there. 'Throw in' would imply the Bears didn't care about keeping him.

R8R H8R
10-06-2009, 10:47 PM
Confirmed? Not sure but it was heavily discussed in the National press. There were many stories about how aggressive Snyder was pursuing Cutler and the deal breaker was Jason Campbell, McD wanted Orton.

Peter King wrote the best article on it at the time. He said that logically the deal maker had to be Orton, because if the Skins and Tampa(I think) had offered the same deal, two 1st's, a 3rd, and a qb, when they had better picks because of record, then the deal had to be because of Orton.

He said McD must have not liked Cambpell and whoever Tampa was offering; but really like Orton. It makes sense to me. McD saw potential in Orton, but not the other QB's.

It makes sense in another way too. Before the draft, McD made it clear he wasn't going to move up in the 1st to get a player, including Sanchez. He must have had a lot of confidence in Orton even at that time.

baja
10-06-2009, 10:56 PM
Peter King wrote the best article on it at the time. He said that logically the deal maker had to be Orton, because if the Skins and Tampa(I think) had offered the same deal, two 1st's, a 3rd, and a qb, when they had better picks because of record, then the deal had to be because of Orton.

He said McD must have not liked Cambpell and whoever Tampa was offering; but really like Orton. It makes sense to me. McD saw potential in Orton, but not the other QB's.

It makes sense in another way too. Before the draft, McD made it clear he wasn't going to move up in the 1st to get a player, including Sanchez. He must have had a lot of confidence in Orton even at that time.

I think it goes back even further. it's my opinion that Josh decided he wasn't going to be able to reign in Cutler (deemed him not to be the QB to build the "we are family" concept around) so he used the ego of Cutler to jettison him for a kings ransom. How clever is that.

Josh knew all along all he had to do was get the players to buy into what he was selling and the rest would take care of itself. Smart boy the Josh hope he stays for at least 16 years.

HAT
10-06-2009, 11:11 PM
hope he stays for at least 16 years.


It will be interesting to see if the successful younger coaches can break the mold and remain relevant with a single franchise for 10 years plus :???:

I doubt it.

baja
10-06-2009, 11:31 PM
It will be interesting to see if the successful younger coaches can break the mold and remain relevant with a single franchise for 10 years plus :???:

I doubt it.

You do have a point. I guess I'm expressing my joy at Bowlen signing Josh, I think we got a hell of a coach for how ever long it turns out to be.

rubaiyat
10-06-2009, 11:34 PM
I think it goes back even further. it's my opinion that Josh decided he wasn't going to be able to reign in Cutler (deemed him not to be the QB to build the "we are family" concept around) so he used the ego of Cutler to jettison him for a kings ransom. How clever is that.

Josh knew all along all he had to do was get the players to buy into what he was selling and the rest would take care of itself. Smart boy the Josh hope he stays for at least 16 years.

That's a little much isn't it? That's akin to the Pats being such geniuses for drafting Brady. They got lucky, made the most of what life dealt them, but come on.

baja
10-06-2009, 11:45 PM
That's a little much isn't it? That's akin to the Pats being such geniuses for drafting Brady. They got lucky, made the most of what life dealt them, but come on.

No I don't think so. Can't really compare the two. Brady like our own TD were purely lucky picks. My take is that after McD spent a great deal of time getting to know Cutler the person while they were together going over the play book before the draft and before the blow up came to the conclusion Jay was a bad fit for what Josh wanted to bring to Denver. Other wise he would have held his fingers to the fire just like he did with Marshall. Surely McD has demonstrated enough football savvy to be wise enough to keep Jay if he wanted him.