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View Full Version : Does this team look like 2006?


lostknight
10-05-2009, 09:25 PM
I've been accused of being both a McDaniel's hater and lover, and my response to everything so far has been "this team will be crazy good or crazy bad." It's not fair to push out my predictions out any further, so here is my official prediction. 11-5, good, but not crazy good.... but they could be.

First the Mea Culpa's. I was wrong; it was absolutely time for Shanahan to loose authority or his job. As I mentioned below I think the offense is seriously under-performing but it's a sign of how bad the defense has been the last three years that we could get Dawkins and Champ on the same team, and not think that this could be a epic unit. The surprise from everyone in the NFL tells you everything you need to know about how badly the offense was mismanaged.

That's not to let the front office off the hook for some of the stupidity this off season. The way they handled the earlier Brandon Marshall mess, how badly they have handled the press, the constant attack on players that the front office decided were no longer relevant to this team. These were big mistakes that kept this team from gelling as early as it could or should have.

All that being said, the "Hug" yesterday may end up being the most important play of this year. Josh McDaniel's had been seriously aloof from the community, the media and the locker room. Everything he said came out drizzled with New England arrogance from calling people "the player" to "lower extremity" injury reports.

Yesterday showed that McDaniel's is really a member of this team, not the Lord Ruler of it. That perception will go a long long way with the players and the community. If you don't think this matters, go see the difference the Rockies have made with Jim Tracey at the helm instead of Clint Hurdle.

This is where the team should have been at the start of the season.

As I mentioned, the defense has been nothing short of awesome. Any doubt that Mike Nolan is the right man for this job is gone after the first three games. He has done a great job merging the best of Denver's old system with new enthusiasm, players and scheme. Doom and Woodyard and DJ, but also Dawkins and Hill and a 3-4. Shanahan was trying to do a pseudo-move to a 3-4, and every experiment was just that - more prone to blow up in the face of the team then provide real and tangible results. Shanahan knows it now - it's part of the reason he is studying other teams right now - it's a shame that it took the complete collapse of the Broncos to get him to go extrovert.

It's been hit or miss with the D-line and the ability to generate pressure with a 3 man front. This last week was the first week that I think we saw consistent pressure with a three man rush. However, the consistent shutdown of other team's running games indicate that Ron Fields is getting the job done at the all important nose tackle position. This allows Doom to run off the edge rather then have to buttress the middle of the formation to keep the running game in check. McBean and Peterson have been unremarkable - the best thing you can say about a D-lineman.

DJ, Doom and Haggan have solidified the LB corp like we have not seen since Al Wilson was forced out of football. We knew last year that our LB corp had talent. The addition of Davis helps what should have been a huge asset last year. The depth behind them looks pretty solid with Ayers and Woodward in particular solidifying things considerably.

Doom is providing the foundation for a attacking D-Line, the perfect linebacker to compliment Dawkins and Champ. Enough has been written that I won't rehash it.

Speaking of Dawkins, what the frick were the Eagles thinking letting this guy go? What's even better is not only do we have Dawkins, we have two very young and very talented safeties learning from him. He plays the position the way it needs to be played - without reservation, at full speed and with a attitude. Burton and McBath should be taking notes.

What about Robert Ayers and Alphonso Smith, whom the Broncos spent two first round picks on? The jury is still out. Doom's success removes one avenue for Ayers. Alphonso Smith has had a few brilliant moments, but the jury is still very much out.

What's surprising about this team, is that so far the offense has been badly under-performing. The only components that have been executing so far have really been the new components - Buckhalter, Moreno, Gaffney. The huge talent that we had last year at offense - Cutler, Marshall, Sheffler, Eddie Royal, Peyton Hillis have been almost completely ineffectual.

Which brings us to the complex question of Kyle Orton. Kyle Orton has proven to be exactly what both sides of the great Orton debate thought. Both a efficient game manager and dink and dunk qb, unable to take advantage of opportunities down the field. I think a commentator this week - on the Marshall play said it perfectly. The ball to Marshall was both underthrown (velocity wise) and high. The week before Oakland actually switched to Cover 0 with their safeties because Kyle Orton could not deliver it down the field. We really don't have a way to stretch out the field. That vertical down the field ability are things that Marshall and Royal excel at. This team will not be great without involving them. Orton has to be able to deliver the ball down the field.

The running game now resembles New England's - which is both a blessing and a curse. Gone are the days of simply grinding a opponent under a solid running game. Instead three running back - with wildly inconsistent results. The big failure of zone blocking was supposedly the inability to run between the tackles, yet McDaniel's called three straight running plays earlier this week, and not a one achieved positive results. That play calling was frustrating to say the least. I know McDaniel's wants to prove his chops as a offensive coach, but I really wonder if we might not do better having a offensive coordinator calling plays?

For this team to be great, they need to change some of their spots. The Shanahan teams always started strong, and then faded as opposing teams figured out the cruches Shanahan was using to hide player's inabilities. Right now the Broncos have a lot of crutches, and they need to get rid of them before opposing teams kick them out.

Remeber that in 2006 the Broncos defense as of Game 7 was the best in the league. The offense was solid, if unspectacular, as Shanahan was following up on his 2005 strategy of limiting the throws that Jake Plummer could throw to keep him out of dicey turn over positions. The bad news was that the rest of the league had clued into this strategy and was adapting leading to lackluster offenses all season long.

Then in week 7, the Colts "picked the lock" of the Broncos defense, scoring more points in that game, then all the opponents in the previous three weeks had. Plummer played much better in that game - setting his season high in scoring- but the team never recovered. Cutler would get his start, and immediately eclipse Plummer's scoring, but at this point, the defense was a pale shadow of itself.

Right now this team looks a lot like the 2006 team. This team needs to expand what they can do, really open up the hose on some opponents. Otherwise, sooner or later this team will be picked.

bronco militia
10-05-2009, 09:27 PM
king neckbeard is playing a lot better than the 2006 jake plummer

misturanderson
10-05-2009, 09:44 PM
king neckbeard is playing a lot better than the 2006 jake plummer

qft

baja
10-05-2009, 09:46 PM
king neckbeard is playing a lot better than the 2006 jake plummer

I think Orton has shone flashes of having a much better arm than people are giving him credit for. That TD to Moreno for example

Kid A
10-05-2009, 09:48 PM
king neckbeard is playing a lot better than the 2006 jake plummer

And just wait until THE GLOVE. COMES. OFF. The league won't know what hit it.

Seriously. When the hell can he take that thing off? From what they were saying during the game is sounded like the finger still hurts.

HAT
10-05-2009, 10:10 PM
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lostknight
10-05-2009, 10:13 PM
I think Orton has shone flashes of having a much better arm than people are giving him credit for. That TD to Moreno for example


I believe it when I see it. I don't mean that as a slam, but so far teams are completely discounting the possibility of deep passes from this qb.

enjolras
10-05-2009, 10:25 PM
This team "gelled" long ago. The hug is simply a sign that Marshall (we hope) is on board a train this team has been on a long time. We've read about how Vonnie Holiday was specifically impressed by how the team had bought into McDaniels. So I disagree that Josh has loosened up one bit. This team has been a solid unit since the beginning of camp. He'll they even seem to really be behind the kicker.

baja
10-05-2009, 10:31 PM
I believe it when I see it. I don't mean that as a slam, but so far teams are completely discounting the possibility of deep passes from this qb.

He over threw Mckinley deep. I think when he gets more familiar with the system and gets his timing down better with his receivers he will surprise a lot of people.

baja
10-05-2009, 10:33 PM
This team "gelled" long ago. The hug is simply a sign that Marshall (we hope) is on board a train this team has been on a long time. We've read about how Vonnie Holiday was specifically impressed by how the team had bought into McDaniels. So I disagree that Josh has loosened up one bit. This team has been a solid unit since the beginning of camp.<b> He'll they even seem to really be behind the kicker.

Which is much wiser than being in front of him.

snowspot66
10-05-2009, 10:48 PM
The '06 team went three and out half a dozen times a game it seemed. They couldn't move the ball for ****.

We seem to be quite able to move it this year. We need to stop killing our own drives though. We've had a ton of drives stopped cold by holding and false starts. Several inside or near the red zone.

baja
10-05-2009, 10:50 PM
8 penalties for 81 yards

BroncoMan4ever
10-05-2009, 11:41 PM
I think Orton has shone flashes of having a much better arm than people are giving him credit for. That TD to Moreno for example

i agree. too many people are basically looking at him like he is Chad Pennington. he has an average NFL strength arm. it isn't an Elwayesque arm but it isn't a Pennington arm either. it is in the middle. he has the ability to throw downfield. the entire offense is still working to get on the same page together. i doubt the full playbook has even been implemented yet. give it a little time and he will show he can execute more than the short routes, and this offense will show what it is capable of. there is just far too much talent for the offense to continue to underachieve all year.

maher_tyler
10-06-2009, 12:10 AM
i agree. too many people are basically looking at him like he is Chad Pennington. he has an average NFL strength arm. it isn't an Elwayesque arm but it isn't a Pennington arm either. it is in the middle. he has the ability to throw downfield. the entire offense is still working to get on the same page together. i doubt the full playbook has even been implemented yet. give it a little time and he will show he can execute more than the short routes, and this offense will show what it is capable of. there is just far too much talent for the offense to continue to underachieve all year.

Don't know if anyone remembers but if he hits Gaffney on that pass he over threw him on, it's a TD! We can hope he has a coming out party against NE :strong:

SonOfLe-loLang
10-06-2009, 12:20 AM
8 penalties for 81 yards

Whats your point?

Rock Chalk
10-06-2009, 12:22 AM
He's actually overthrown a couple of balls that looked to me like throws the bashers of Orton said he couldnt make. I mean, you can go back an dread some of the stuff spdirty and lex and broncofan7 said in the offseason that his noodle arm couldnt throw it fifty yards.

My first day at training camp and I knew that was bull****, I saw him chuck it 65 yards in the air with pinpoint precision (of course, Marshall did drop the pass).

It may not have the velocity of Jay on the long ball but his short ball gets there pretty damn quickly and even his intermediate ball has some zip on it.

He may never be an all world QB but I would compare his arm strength to Brady (not his accuracy, nor his "it" factor, calm yourselves) and maybe McDaniels can turn him into something more than his perceived status is now. Might take a year but considering that it took Tom Terrific and company a year, next year may even be better than this year.

Rock Chalk
10-06-2009, 12:22 AM
Whats your point?

He was responding to the post right above his which brought up drive killing penalties.

Kaylore
10-06-2009, 12:39 AM
This team reminds me of the '04 Patriots. They had the number one scoring defense but were number seven in yardage. Their offense was ranked 17th in yardage but were 12th in points. They went 14-2 and won the Super Bowl.

Now I think our defense might not finish as high, but I do think our offense will finish higher than 12th.

Kaylore
10-06-2009, 12:49 AM
And in 2006, Plummer wasn't playing anywhere near as well as Orton. Plummer was a horribly inept passer that year.

In Plummer's first game against the "mighty" Rams, he did a repeat of his performance in the AFCG throwing three ints and fumbling once.

In Plummer's next game against the Chiefs he threw an Int and no touchdowns.

The next game Plummer and Walker owned the Patriots and he played well.

The following game against the Ravens he'd throw another Int but also a TD and against the Ravens D he gets a break.

This is where the idea that "Plummer was winning" in '06 is total crap. Plummer turned the ball over a lot that year and our defense won us those games early until they wore down. Whenever a player is turning the ball over, they aren't helping you win games, even if you win. They just happen to be on a winning team.

cutthemdown
10-06-2009, 01:39 AM
And just wait until THE GLOVE. COMES. OFF. The league won't know what hit it.

Seriously. When the hell can he take that thing off? From what they were saying during the game is sounded like the finger still hurts.

Slice the tip of your finger down to the bone to the point it needs a ton of stitches to close it. Then hit the knuckle with a hammer, not too hard though, don't break it.

Then go to emergency room and get it stitched up. Then go out in a couple weeks and throw a football and let us know how it feels.

Hell yeah it hurts. He's showing the team his toughness and that's one of the reasons the offense and defense respect Orton so much. He's always a big hit with teammates because he is genuine, likeable, and very tough player.

rastaman
10-06-2009, 04:02 AM
I've been accused of being both a McDaniel's hater and lover, and my response to everything so far has been "this team will be crazy good or crazy bad." It's not fair to push out my predictions out any further, so here is my official prediction. 11-5, good, but not crazy good.... but they could be.

First the Mea Culpa's. I was wrong; it was absolutely time for Shanahan to loose authority or his job. As I mentioned below I think the offense is seriously under-performing but it's a sign of how bad the defense has been the last three years that we could get Dawkins and Champ on the same team, and not think that this could be a epic unit. The surprise from everyone in the NFL tells you everything you need to know about how badly the offense was mismanaged.

That's not to let the front office off the hook for some of the stupidity this off season. The way they handled the earlier Brandon Marshall mess, how badly they have handled the press, the constant attack on players that the front office decided were no longer relevant to this team. These were big mistakes that kept this team from gelling as early as it could or should have.

All that being said, the "Hug" yesterday may end up being the most important play of this year. Josh McDaniel's had been seriously aloof from the community, the media and the locker room. Everything he said came out drizzled with New England arrogance from calling people "the player" to "lower extremity" injury reports.

Yesterday showed that McDaniel's is really a member of this team, not the Lord Ruler of it. That perception will go a long long way with the players and the community. If you don't think this matters, go see the difference the Rockies have made with Jim Tracey at the helm instead of Clint Hurdle.

This is where the team should have been at the start of the season.

As I mentioned, the defense has been nothing short of awesome. Any doubt that Mike Nolan is the right man for this job is gone after the first three games. He has done a great job merging the best of Denver's old system with new enthusiasm, players and scheme. Doom and Woodyard and DJ, but also Dawkins and Hill and a 3-4. Shanahan was trying to do a pseudo-move to a 3-4, and every experiment was just that - more prone to blow up in the face of the team then provide real and tangible results. Shanahan knows it now - it's part of the reason he is studying other teams right now - it's a shame that it took the complete collapse of the Broncos to get him to go extrovert.

It's been hit or miss with the D-line and the ability to generate pressure with a 3 man front. This last week was the first week that I think we saw consistent pressure with a three man rush. However, the consistent shutdown of other team's running games indicate that Ron Fields is getting the job done at the all important nose tackle position. This allows Doom to run off the edge rather then have to buttress the middle of the formation to keep the running game in check. McBean and Peterson have been unremarkable - the best thing you can say about a D-lineman.

DJ, Doom and Haggan have solidified the LB corp like we have not seen since Al Wilson was forced out of football. We knew last year that our LB corp had talent. The addition of Davis helps what should have been a huge asset last year. The depth behind them looks pretty solid with Ayers and Woodward in particular solidifying things considerably.

Doom is providing the foundation for a attacking D-Line, the perfect linebacker to compliment Dawkins and Champ. Enough has been written that I won't rehash it.

Speaking of Dawkins, what the frick were the Eagles thinking letting this guy go? What's even better is not only do we have Dawkins, we have two very young and very talented safeties learning from him. He plays the position the way it needs to be played - without reservation, at full speed and with a attitude. Burton and McBath should be taking notes.

What about Robert Ayers and Alphonso Smith, whom the Broncos spent two first round picks on? The jury is still out. Doom's success removes one avenue for Ayers. Alphonso Smith has had a few brilliant moments, but the jury is still very much out.

What's surprising about this team, is that so far the offense has been badly under-performing. The only components that have been executing so far have really been the new components - Buckhalter, Moreno, Gaffney. The huge talent that we had last year at offense - Cutler, Marshall, Sheffler, Eddie Royal, Peyton Hillis have been almost completely ineffectual.

Which brings us to the complex question of Kyle Orton. Kyle Orton has proven to be exactly what both sides of the great Orton debate thought. Both a efficient game manager and dink and dunk qb, unable to take advantage of opportunities down the field. I think a commentator this week - on the Marshall play said it perfectly. The ball to Marshall was both underthrown (velocity wise) and high. The week before Oakland actually switched to Cover 0 with their safeties because Kyle Orton could not deliver it down the field. We really don't have a way to stretch out the field. That vertical down the field ability are things that Marshall and Royal excel at. This team will not be great without involving them. Orton has to be able to deliver the ball down the field.

The running game now resembles New England's - which is both a blessing and a curse. Gone are the days of simply grinding a opponent under a solid running game. Instead three running back - with wildly inconsistent results. The big failure of zone blocking was supposedly the inability to run between the tackles, yet McDaniel's called three straight running plays earlier this week, and not a one achieved positive results. That play calling was frustrating to say the least. I know McDaniel's wants to prove his chops as a offensive coach, but I really wonder if we might not do better having a offensive coordinator calling plays?

For this team to be great, they need to change some of their spots. The Shanahan teams always started strong, and then faded as opposing teams figured out the cruches Shanahan was using to hide player's inabilities. Right now the Broncos have a lot of crutches, and they need to get rid of them before opposing teams kick them out.

Remeber that in 2006 the Broncos defense as of Game 7 was the best in the league. The offense was solid, if unspectacular, as Shanahan was following up on his 2005 strategy of limiting the throws that Jake Plummer could throw to keep him out of dicey turn over positions. The bad news was that the rest of the league had clued into this strategy and was adapting leading to lackluster offenses all season long.

Then in week 7, the Colts "picked the lock" of the Broncos defense, scoring more points in that game, then all the opponents in the previous three weeks had. Plummer played much better in that game - setting his season high in scoring- but the team never recovered. Cutler would get his start, and immediately eclipse Plummer's scoring, but at this point, the defense was a pale shadow of itself.

Right now this team looks a lot like the 2006 team. This team needs to expand what they can do, really open up the hose on some opponents. Otherwise, sooner or later this team will be picked.

Lostknight, outstanding observation. I think the 2009 team mirrors the 2006 team and season.

The 06 Defense was exposed and was worn down b/c the 06 offense was unable to score points and the D back then kept the Broncos in games as we see today. The 09 Defense can continue to play at the level their playing at for the last 12 games.....however, I believe its contingent on Orton stepping up and winning games with his arm more so than just managing the at the expense of the wear and tear the Defense will undoubtedly endure as the season wheres on.

rastaman
10-06-2009, 04:09 AM
Slice the tip of your finger down to the bone to the point it needs a ton of stitches to close it. Then hit the knuckle with a hammer, not too hard though, don't break it.

Then go to emergency room and get it stitched up. Then go out in a couple weeks and throw a football and let us know how it feels.

Hell yeah it hurts. He's showing the team his toughness and that's one of the reasons the offense and defense respect Orton so much. He's always a big hit with teammates because he is genuine, likeable, and very tough player.

Everyone appreciates Orton's toughness with his injury, however, why not let the finger heal and just start Simms! The last few games, Orton has gotten by some luck with his throws perhaps due to his injury, but this type of luck can't last forever. Sooner or later those questionable passes/throws will be intercepted. So far the Defense and the WR's on this team have bailed out Orton on the way to a 4-0 start. Orton has 29% 3rd down completion percentage and at that percentage rate, this Defense could very well wear down like the 06 Defense did.

cutthemdown
10-06-2009, 04:26 AM
4-0, that's why. You don't start the backup when the starter can go out and win you the game. I can't believe I'm even having this discussion. Sooner or later he will throw a pick, that is almost certain. I'm just wondering what makes you think Chris Simms would be a better option.

You don't think you are smarter then Coach Mcadaniels do you?

cutthemdown
10-06-2009, 04:32 AM
Ok since you love situational stats I decided to get some for you Rasta.

Attempts

1-10 he's comp 55%
11-20 he's comp 55%

but as game goes on

21-30 63.3%
31+ 85%

What that tells me is that he gets better as he needs to late in games to win them. In the early going he throws ball away, punts for field position, plays it safe.

You mistake style for lack of talent and that is the flaw in your reasoning.

Orton is 6-4 225 pounds, I've seen him chuck ball for big gains in Chicago and I don't see a problem with his arm. He's a little slow footed and that is his weakness but Broncos have good protection and a pocket passing offense.

rastaman
10-06-2009, 04:49 AM
4-0, that's why. You don't start the backup when the starter can go out and win you the game. I can't believe I'm even having this discussion. Sooner or later he will throw a pick, that is almost certain. I'm just wondering what makes you think Chris Simms would be a better option.

You don't think you are smarter then Coach Mcadaniels do you?

Oh get over yourself! Simms is just as talented as Orton and more than likely throws the ball with more consistency and win the WR's are open! What makes you think Simms wouldn't be any better? The point is, everyone is using the excuse of Orton wearing the golve to protect his finger injury....as to why he's throwing the ball so erratically---I hope this is the reason and by week 8 with his finger healed, we should see Orton giving the Defense a rest for a change.

Broncomutt
10-06-2009, 04:52 AM
2009 McDaniels > 2006 Shanahan

cutthemdown
10-06-2009, 04:54 AM
Oh get over yourself! Simms is just as talented as Orton and more than likely throws the ball with more consistency and win the WR's are open! What makes you think Simms wouldn't be any better? The point is, everyone is using the excuse of Orton wearing the golve to protect his finger injury....as to why he's throwing the ball so erratically---I hope this is the reason and by week 8 with his finger healed, we should see Orton giving the Defense a rest for a change.

The main reason is because I know I'm not smarter the Josh Mcdaniels. That kid knows more about football then all of us put together.

Then after that I see the stats, Orton with way more wins. Simms sort of was just getting going then busted his spleen open. Then he twisted an ankle and was limping a tad to start the season.

What makes you think you no better then the coach. He's the one watching them practice, drilling them on the offense. He knows who is further along over you Rasta.

rastaman
10-06-2009, 04:59 AM
2009 McDaniels > 2006 Shanahan

Don't you think you're rushing ahead just a bit. The 09 season isn't over yet! Besides couldn't one say the success McDaniels will enjoy in 09 in part will be due to the offensive line Shanny left McDaniels as well as key WR's drafted and signed by Shanny! Not to mention Doom who was drafted by Shanny thats making the most impact in 09!

McD has yet to draft and sign his own players yet and is winning b/c of what Shanny has left him to work with to some degree.

rastaman
10-06-2009, 05:04 AM
The main reason is because I know I'm not smarter the Josh Mcdaniels. That kid knows more about football then all of us put together.

Then after that I see the stats, Orton with way more wins. Simms sort of was just getting going then busted his spleen open. Then he twisted an ankle and was limping a tad to start the season.

What makes you think you no better then the coach. He's the one watching them practice, drilling them on the offense. He knows who is further along over you Rasta.

Never said I knew more than the COACH! Just gave my observation and opinion! Point is, if Simms was healthy and Orton continues to throw erratically as the season goes on Simms should get the opportunity. Right now its the Defense, a bit of luck as to why Orton now finds himself 4-0 and no interception thus far.

cutthemdown
10-06-2009, 05:38 AM
Never said I knew more than the COACH! Just gave my observation and opinion! Point is, if Simms was healthy and Orton continues to throw erratically as the season goes on Simms should get the opportunity. Right now its the Defense, a bit of luck as to why Orton now finds himself 4-0 and no interception thus far.

Unless Orton gets injured you won't see Simms at all this yr unless we have a blowout.

The defense has had some luck also. Almost every good yr has some luck involved.

Gort
10-06-2009, 05:45 AM
We seem to be quite able to move it this year. We need the refs to stop killing our drives though. We've had a ton of drives stopped cold by refs. Several inside or near the red zone.

fixed.

Broncomutt
10-06-2009, 07:12 AM
Don't you think you're rushing ahead just a bit. The 09 season isn't over yet! Besides couldn't one say the success McDaniels will enjoy in 09 in part will be due to the offensive line Shanny left McDaniels as well as key WR's drafted and signed by Shanny! Not to mention Doom who was drafted by Shanny thats making the most impact in 09!

McD has yet to draft and sign his own players yet and is winning b/c of what Shanny has left him to work with to some degree.

You know Rasta, that's a fair assesment. Perhaps I am rushing a bit. All I know is I had begun to see Shanny as stale and past his prime in 2006, with me starting to call for his resignation in 2007. I felt we were frauds in 2006 because we had started fast before only to collapse late in the season, so I expected more of the same. And sure enough, Shanny delivered on my expectations.

With McDaniels, and Nolan, I feel new life has been breathed into this team, and I am clearly not the only one. Can you honestly say this team doesn't feel different to you? Perhaps you are tempering your enthusiasm a bit more than me, and I can respect that. You may prove to be correct, McDaniels and Nolan may fall flat on their faces. My gut tells me differently though and unfortunately I don't have any facts or stats to back up a "gut feeling".

As for Shanny being responsible for the wins because of the players he drafted, you may not want to go there. That is unless you're ready to hand Shanny's SB rings off to Reeves since he was the one that drafted the HoFers that helped us win those championships. Terrel Davis? 7th round pick, so he deserves no genius status for that. And what difference does it make if he drafted Doom, but them utilized him incorrectly. Doom seems much more adept at pass rushing from a 3-4 LB slot.

Too early to crown McDaniels and Nolan? Probably.

Give credit to Shanny for the wins so far? Please. Shanny was a hurdle McDaniels had to overcome.

ColoradoDarin
10-06-2009, 07:23 AM
Our defense starting out in 06 was a fraud, we were giving up TONS of yards to every team, but Champ was single-handedly keeping the other team out of the endzone. I think he had 3 or 4 interceptions in the endzone/redzone those first few games. This year, we are really limiting yards, especially in the run game, we're getting a lot of pressure on the QB, and outside the first quarter of this last game, we're tackling well.

Kid A
10-06-2009, 08:21 AM
Slice the tip of your finger down to the bone to the point it needs a ton of stitches to close it. Then hit the knuckle with a hammer, not too hard though, don't break it.

Then go to emergency room and get it stitched up. Then go out in a couple weeks and throw a football and let us know how it feels.

Hell yeah it hurts. He's showing the team his toughness and that's one of the reasons the offense and defense respect Orton so much. He's always a big hit with teammates because he is genuine, likeable, and very tough player.

I certainly appreciate that it was a painful injury, it was just strange that in week 1 and 2 they were acting like there was a chance he might not need the glove very long. I think they might have been downplaying the severity a little or underrated how long it would linger. Anyway, I'm kinda impressed with how he's thrown the ball given the finger and I'm excited to see what leap he can make once it's 100%.

barryr
10-06-2009, 08:26 AM
Only the bozos who don't watch enough NFL think Orton has a weak arm. He doesn't have a cannon, but I don't see anyone making that claim. His arm is good enough to win games in the NFL and the record shows that.

I couldn't care less if he typically can't make a tight throw between 2 defenders. Like I want my QB trying that a lot anyway.

lostknight
10-06-2009, 08:31 AM
I'm sorry, I have yet to see a downfield pass from Orton that didn't have me holding my breath, and sure that a interception was coming. The slow floaters are a serious problem. Maybe he has a good arm, he has not displayed it yet.

UberBroncoMan
10-06-2009, 09:27 AM
And just wait until THE GLOVE. COMES. OFF. The league won't know what hit it.

Seriously. When the hell can he take that thing off? From what they were saying during the game is sounded like the finger still hurts.

All I know is that he lost every pre-season game and threw 4 INT's without a glove and he's 4-0 with one.

Old Dude
10-06-2009, 10:15 AM
Remeber that in 2006 the Broncos defense as of Game 7 was the best in the league. The offense was solid, if unspectacular, as Shanahan was following up on his 2005 strategy of limiting the throws that Jake Plummer could throw to keep him out of dicey turn over positions. The bad news was that the rest of the league had clued into this strategy and was adapting leading to lackluster offenses all season long.

Then in week 7, the Colts "picked the lock" of the Broncos defense, scoring more points in that game, then all the opponents in the previous three weeks had. Plummer played much better in that game - setting his season high in scoring- but the team never recovered. Cutler would get his start, and immediately eclipse Plummer's scoring, but at this point, the defense was a pale shadow of itself.



I disagree. Yes, Manning destroyed them in game 7, mainly by hitting Reggie Wayne over and over again against a soft zone. But this was nothing new. He'd done it the year before ... and the year before (in the playoffs) and the year before (in the playoffs.)

But Denver's D did not collapse immediately after that 2006 loss to the Colts.

The next week, they did give up 20 points to the (defending champion) Steelers, and 433 (gross) yards in the air. But they also sacked the QB four times, intercepted three passes, and forced four fumbles. (Seven takeaways!) The defense was instrumental in helping the offense put up 31 points.

The week after that they held the Raiders to 13 points. Not exactly a defensive collapse.

If there was a moment when Denver fell apart, it was the next week, against the Chargers at home. In the third quarter, Denver was leading 24-7, right after a Darrent Williams INT return for a TD. Let's repeat that. Denver was leading in the third quarter, 24-7, at home.

From that point on, the Chargers outscored Denver 28-3, with LT scoring 3 TDs. That was when the wheels came off.

Denver's D rebounded a bit the next week and held KC to 19 (but lost anyway, due to a listless offense.)

Al Wilson was hurt the week after that against the Seahawks, and when the Broncos had their rematch against the Chargers the following week, they were burned for 48. The thing that they never really recovered from was Al Wilson's loss.


The same thing could happen to this team (or any other team) if injuries hit critical spots.

Also interesting is what happened to Denver in the turnover ratio after that first SD game...

-2 vs. the Chiefs. (L) (Plummer's last game as a starter)
-2 vs. the Seahawks. (L)
-2 against the Chargers (L)
Even vs. the Cardinals (a win)
+4 vs. the Bengals (a win)
-1 vs. the 49ers (L)