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Quoydogs
10-05-2009, 01:21 AM
First let me start by saying please don't make this a rip on Orton thread.

Is he good enough to take us to the dance??

If you look at his stats he has been spot on and today in the forth quarter he played very well. He even made a few throws that impressed me. However the first 3 quarters were not so good.

We have the Defense to do it. We have the WR's to do it. Our running game has been outstanding.

Also if you don't think he has it, what do you do about it? Who do you put in? Is simms any better?

Doggcow
10-05-2009, 01:28 AM
Put in Simms? are you ****ing kidding me? Newsflash we're 4-0!

Quoydogs
10-05-2009, 01:33 AM
Put in Simms? are you ****ing kidding me? Newsflash we're 4-0!

I was not saying put simms in. I was saying if you don't think he has what it takes, then what do you do. What are out options?

I like that we are winning and maybe I am wrong but if you throw the stats out he does not look that good. He was off so bad in the first half, he could have cost us the game.

I am starting to like Orton but I don't think he is good enough to take us to the dance. However maybe our D is?

Doggcow
10-05-2009, 01:35 AM
Trent Dilfer won a superbowl.

Quoydogs
10-05-2009, 01:39 AM
Trent Dilfer won a superbowl.

You have a great point. I will admit Orton is way better then Dilfer and I think Our D may be better then Baltimore was back then.

chrisp
10-05-2009, 01:46 AM
All I will say about Orton is don't underestimate the value of his being a sensible game manager who doesn't make too many stupid mistakes. Especially while we have this defense.

Yes, his early-game performance was pretty bad, and had me wondering if he was the guy or not, and I also accept that maybe the stats (which look good right now) don't tell the whole story, but he got better as the game wore on - can he also get better as the season goes on? There's a more than reasonable chance that he can.

One thing I noticed in the game is that he still seems to be struggling with the extra time he has, and seems to over-think when he has time to think. I thought that good, bad or indifferent he would be the classic pocket-passer but at this point, despite his relative lack of mobility he looks more like Jake Plummer (Plummer without the INTs - the 2005 vintage) in that he executes the play-action well and seems to make better throws when he's on the run or doing quick-drop type stuff drop. I don't know enough about playing the QB position to know if he can learn to be less hesitant but I certainly think it will be interesting to see how that develops as the season progresses. Don't forget this remains a very complex offense so hoping that the passing game in general will be more in-sync in the last 8 games than it is in the first is not entirely unrealistic....

Also, I don't think you even think about benching your starting QB while you're winning like this. Yes, if we start losing games becuase he can't make the key throws or find the open guy then maybe, but not winning by as much as you'd like is not the same as losing......

BroncoMan4ever
10-05-2009, 01:50 AM
First let me start by saying please don't make this a rip on Orton thread.

Is he good enough to take us to the dance??

If you look at his stats he has been spot on and today in the forth quarter he played very well. He even made a few throws that impressed me. However the first 3 quarters were not so good.

We have the Defense to do it. We have the WR's to do it. Our running game has been outstanding.

Also if you don't think he has it, what do you do about it? Who do you put in? Is simms any better?

he has 5 TDs and 0 INTs, he is playing lights out late in games when it matters most, he does NOT lose at home, he doesn't put the team into bad situations.

and how was he so terrible the 1st 3 quarters. he wasn't lighting it up, but he finished 20-29 passing and was a little off target, every QB has the occasional off week. this is the 1st time he has been playing without the extra pad on his knuckle and even in a game where he wasn't at his best, he didn't screw the team into ****ty situations . over 60% completion rate and no turnovers is a damn good day regardless of how it looked, plus he was under a lot of pressure today. Dallas D played a pretty good game.

Orton is capable of leading us to the big game and can lead this team to victory. i am very comfortable with him as our QB for the foreseeable future.

BroncoMan4ever
10-05-2009, 01:57 AM
All I will say about Orton is don't underestimate the value of his being a sensible game manager who doesn't make too many stupid mistakes. Especially while we have this defense.

Yes, his early-game performance was pretty bad, and had me wondering if he was the guy or not, and I also accept that maybe the stats (which look good right now) don't tell the whole story, but he got better as the game wore on - can he also get better as the season goes on? There's a more than reasonable chance that he can.

One thing I noticed in the game is that he still seems to be struggling with the extra time he has, and seems to over-think when he has time to think. I thought that good, bad or indifferent he would be the classic pocket-passer but at this point, despite his relative lack of mobility he looks more like Jake Plummer (Plummer without the INTs - the 2005 vintage) in that he executes the play-action well and seems to make better throws when he's on the run or doing quick-drop type stuff drop. I don't know enough about playing the QB position to know if he can learn to be less hesitant but I certainly think it will be interesting to see how that develops as the season progresses. Don't forget this remains a very complex offense so hoping that the passing game in general will be more in-sync in the last 8 games than it is in the first is not entirely unrealistic....

Also, I don't think you even think about benching your starting QB while you're winning like this. Yes, if we start losing games becuase he can't make the key throws or find the open guy then maybe, but not winning by as much as you'd like is not the same as losing......

his pocket awareness is very heightened due to playing in Chicago where he had maybe 2 seconds to get the ball, make his read and get the ball out of his hands. in Denver where he has time he is still getting used to not having to worry about getting killed with the ball in his hands.

give the guy a little more time to get used to the level of protection he has and his hesitancy will begin to disipate.

he is playing great for us, and is getting better. once the offense is all on the same page and everyone is up to speed and the unit is cohesive we will see what the offense is capable of and Orton will begin to look like a pro bowler

errand
10-05-2009, 05:38 AM
Kyle Orton started off 3 of 9...and finished with 17 completions in his next 20 attempts.

He's 4-0 as our starter which BTW is something we haven't seen since Elway if memory serves me right ( a 4-0 start that is)...and he's not turned the ball over via INT or fumble yet.

...and what does that get him, another thread where the usual suspects will come to bash him.

WolfpackGuy
10-05-2009, 05:45 AM
The TD to Moreno was damn near a pick six the other way.
Orton really needs to step it up because sooner or later his misfires are going to hurt.

BleedingOrange
10-05-2009, 06:10 AM
We went 4-0 in 2003.

The Joker
10-05-2009, 06:36 AM
He needs to improve some aspects of his game, I'm hoping the glove has been hindering him a bit.

As that comes off and he gets more comfortable in the offense, hopefully he'll be able to move the ball more consistently.

If we're seeing him at his best right now then no, I don't think this is good enough to go all the way with.

The D will stay good IMO, but it won't stay as good as it has been the first 4 games. If Romo played well yesterday we'd have lost, good as our D was he missed some very makeable throws and that pick by Champ was due to miscommunication more than a great D play. (The pick itself by Champ was amazing, but it should never have been possible.)

The most encouraging thing is that he seems to be improving during the course of the game, and seems to be playing his best football at the end of games. That's a massive aspect of being a good QB.

If he can limit mistakes and be clutch in the 4th quarter, then he's got a lot going in his favour.

BMarsh615
10-05-2009, 06:40 AM
I think people here forget that Cutler did throw incomplete passes when he was in Denver. Orton is playing very well (7th rated QB in the entire NFL), and MUCH better than anyone here expected.

strafen
10-05-2009, 06:45 AM
We don't need a game manager. We need a QB!

Look, had Romo been ON in this game, like NOT missing receivers and throws he should've completed that our defense didn't have anything to do with, we would be collecting signatures to ship Orton's ass out of town on a rail at this moment...

Thanks God for a great defense, and for lady luck for sticking around
Orton sucks!

BMarsh615
10-05-2009, 06:48 AM
We don't need a game manager. We need a QB!

Look, had Romo been ON in this game, like NOT missing receivers and throws he should've completed that our defense didn't have anything to do with, we would be collecting signatures to ship Orton's ass out of town on a rail at this moment...

Thanks God for a great defense, and for lady luck for sticking around
Orton sucks!

Douchebag

oubronco
10-05-2009, 06:53 AM
The TD to Moreno was damn near a pick six the other way.
Orton really needs to step it up because sooner or later his misfires are going to hurt.

Damn good point

strafen
10-05-2009, 06:53 AM
Kyle Orton started off 3 of 9...and finished with 17 completions in his next 20 attempts.

He's 4-0 as our starter which BTW is something we haven't seen since Elway if memory serves me right ( a 4-0 start that is)...and he's not turned the ball over via INT or fumble yet.

...and what does that get him, another thread where the usual suspects will come to bash him.

What da' hell has he done?
Nothing!
That's about the only contribution he has going for him, the fact that he has been irrelevant in 3 of our 4 wins
Oh, but he has not thrown any INT!
That's about the only thing that he has done. No INT, and I hope he keeps doing NOTHING, so he won't lose games for us

I concede he has something to do with Marshall getting the ball for the winning TD, but aside from that, please tell me what is it that Orton has done that you're willing to give him credit for being 4-0?
What were you saying in the first 3 quarters of his performance yesterday?
I'll tell you what I was saying, THAT's who I thought he was, and that's what Orton is. An incapable average and mediocre QB
Would we be 4-0 with a middle of the pack defense and Orton at QB?
NO!
Our defense is tops in the NFL in most categories. That's the type of defense we would need to have to compensate for having a QB that sucks big time...

oubronco
10-05-2009, 06:58 AM
We don't need a game manager. We need a QB!

Look, had Romo been ON in this game, like NOT missing receivers and throws he should've completed that our defense didn't have anything to do with, we would be collecting signatures to ship Orton's ass out of town on a rail at this moment...

Thanks God for a great defense, and for lady luck for sticking around
Orton sucks!

I sure hope they fix this problem because Brady will hit those throws Romo missed some wide open wr's but PRESSURE had nothing to do with it .................right :kiddingme

Ziggy
10-05-2009, 07:00 AM
Only one stat matters. 4-0

Majik
10-05-2009, 07:10 AM
I sure hope they fix this problem because Brady will hit those throws Romo missed some wide open wr's but PRESSURE had nothing to do with it .................right :kiddingme

Oh no he was only sacked five times::)

pressure had NOTHING to do with Romo's performance today, he was just off, we really got lucky to catch him at such a bad time.

strafen
10-05-2009, 07:21 AM
I sure hope they fix this problem because Brady will hit those throws Romo missed some wide open wr's but PRESSURE had nothing to do with it .................right :kiddingme

I give our defense credit, don't get me wrong. I'm talking about the times he missed when he had all day to throw
You saw the game, right?
Why do you ask?
You know what I mean...

strafen
10-05-2009, 07:22 AM
Douchebag

That's the most intelligent thing you've ever posted that I can recall! :thumbsup:

Broncofan_H
10-05-2009, 07:29 AM
I give our defense credit, don't get me wrong. I'm talking about the times he missed when he had all day to throw
You saw the game, right?
Why do you ask?
You know what I mean...

Perhaps it was those times when nobody was open downfield to throw it to?

But I was at the game, so maybe they showed something different on TV. I have yet to watch the game again.

Boy, we sure are lucky that Romo was bad just because. Maybe Jessica was in attendance?

:kiddingme

Majik
10-05-2009, 07:30 AM
I give our defense credit, don't get me wrong. I'm talking about the times he missed when he had all day to throw
You saw the game, right?
Why do you ask?
You know what I mean...

When you knock a guy around, he gets rattled, he doesn't get into a rhythm. What don't you understand?

Smiling Assassin27
10-05-2009, 07:35 AM
Orton isn't 'taking' us anywhere, man. There are 10 other guys on that offense that take their roles seriously, and contribute as much as, or even more than Orton. If anyone 'takes us to the big blah blah..', it's gonna be 22 guys, not Orton. Every facet of the offense is predicated on people doing their jobs. The passing game relies on a threat of the run. The run game relies on a threat of our wr's ability to gash the defense and ALL of it relies on penalties and turnovers kept to a minimum. That and getting off the field on 3rd down and prolonging our own offensive drives to keep our D fresh.

That is where we need to improve. Penalties were a killer yesterday and Moreno put the ball on the grass right after half, which could've been disastrous. The offense will be called on to score more than 30 at some point. They'll be up to the task.

Mr. Elway
10-05-2009, 07:36 AM
Also if you don't think he has it, what do you do about it? Who do you put in? Is simms any better?

My god what does the man have to do to win some of these fans over?

oubronco
10-05-2009, 07:41 AM
Oh no he was only sacked five times::)

pressure had NOTHING to do with Romo's performance today, he was just off, we really got lucky to catch him at such a bad time.

5 sacks and hit I don't know how many times, they rattled his cage good and he wasn't perfect

I just can't figure out why?

Traveler
10-05-2009, 07:42 AM
Defenses don't respect our passing game yet. Especially the long ball. The term "Game Manager" bothers me, but thus far, you can't argue with the results. Orton has a winning record as a QB in this league so I can't complain too much.

Kyle isn't the long term answer for us IMO. McDaniels and company will address it in due time.

Smiling Assassin27
10-05-2009, 07:45 AM
My god what does the man have to do to win some of these fans over?


Well, Mr. Elway, folks didn't exactly embrace you when you debuted as a Broncos all those years ago! ;D

I guess if Ed Hochuli would've bailed him out of a 38-31 game, he'd be the toast of Denver.

Rock Chalk
10-05-2009, 07:59 AM
Is it Orton's fault there were 10 offensive penalties against Denver in the first half?

I don't think so.

Mr.Meanie
10-05-2009, 08:02 AM
We don't need a game manager. We need a QB!

Look, had Romo been ON in this game, like NOT missing receivers and throws he should've completed that our defense didn't have anything to do with, we would be collecting signatures to ship Orton's ass out of town on a rail at this moment...

Thanks God for a great defense, and for lady luck for sticking around
Orton sucks!

When you're lucky again and again and again... it's not luck.

snowspot66
10-05-2009, 08:13 AM
The TD to Moreno was damn near a pick six the other way.
Orton really needs to step it up because sooner or later his misfires are going to hurt.

Oh please. Cutler threw the same damn ball a year or two ago and all anybody did was drool over how fast it got there.

It got there. That's all that matters. He won't be doing it again.

snowspot66
10-05-2009, 08:18 AM
We don't need a game manager. We need a QB!

Look, had Romo been ON in this game, like NOT missing receivers and throws he should've completed that our defense didn't have anything to do with, we would be collecting signatures to ship Orton's ass out of town on a rail at this moment...

Thanks God for a great defense, and for lady luck for sticking around
Orton sucks!

Why can't you accept that maybe Romo was off of his game because of our defense and Orton was off early because of their defense and our ridiculous penalties?. 3-9 to start and then 17-20. That seems like a really good turn around. Both sides get paid and guess what? Despite all the Orton haters desire for perfection there is no perfect QB in this league. Every game QB's miss open receivers. Sometimes wide open. Yet for some reason here only Orton gets lampooned for it because he doesn't have a cannon arm.

Irish Stout
10-05-2009, 08:33 AM
I have said the following and hold firm to it:

Those who say(said) start Simms over Orton clearly don't have a clue.
Those who think McD is starting Orton over Simms because McD is tied to Orton do not have a clue.
Those who say that Orton cannot win games only keep from losing them need to explain what happened yesterday, because you don't have a clue.

Orton may not be the franchise qb you want, but what has Orton done to convince you of this? He has a stronger arm than Rivers, he makes better decisions on throws than Cutler, he just wins and he can win games for this team if need be... just wait.

WolfpackGuy
10-05-2009, 08:35 AM
I guess I was the only one who saw the "throw away" that didn't make it to the sideline on the FG drive in the 4th quarter.
WTF was that?
Good thing it was such a Ortonesque (poopy) throw.

BlaK-Argentina
10-05-2009, 08:46 AM
I guess I was the only one who saw the "throw away" that didn't make it to the sideline on the FG drive in the 4th quarter.
WTF was that?
Good thing it was such a Ortonesque (poopy) throw.

You mean the one where he had a defender all over him and barely got it away?

ScottXray
10-05-2009, 09:14 AM
I guess I was the only one who saw the "throw away" that didn't make it to the sideline on the FG drive in the 4th quarter.
WTF was that?
Good thing it was such a Ortonesque (poopy) throw.

Yeah he took a chance on that one....take a sack if you can't get it out of there and to the sideline was not an option there...it was close...but it did get out.

All Orton does is make some plays....oh, and Win games.

He is not going to be anyones Fantasy league leader....I don't care as long as he keeps winning.

snowspot66
10-05-2009, 09:16 AM
It's a miracle he even got the ball away. Probably should have taken that sack. Of course people would have been screaming about that instead.

Kaylore
10-05-2009, 09:22 AM
It takes three years to learn an offensive system. And people forget he has no history with anyone on the offensive except Brandon Lloyd, who isn't even a starter on this offense. He's also been playing with the glove and that's negatively affected a few of his throws. It's going to take some time for Orton, and frankly the rest of the offense, to get their grove on. They're all learning and all learning what each other likes to do. Four games in against some fairy decent defenses isn't time to freak out.

And can we please get off Simms? He sucks. Simms was a free agent for a reason. He holds the ball too long and I watched him throw several times in practice and he was woeful past twenty yards. "BUT hE w@S teh R0X04 in teh 49ers g@ME!!!1!!!!!!!!"

He rolled out and lobbed it to McKinley against their fourth string defense! Woopty freaking doo!

Brandstater is the future but that is a future that is two years away. I think Simms is gone next year and Brandstater becomes the number 2.

cmhargrove
10-05-2009, 09:23 AM
Are we seriously complaining about winning?

A Qb who just dislocated his finger (arguably the most important finger in terms of accuracy), who hasn't thrown an INT and is still wearing a glove for the first time in his career.

We are complaining about this?

Dude, some people are just harsh. I'm not going to go buy an Orton jersey, but benching a game winner is just dumb. Let this play out. Let our offense develop. My thought is that he will never be Peyton Manning, but he could indeed be much better than we have seen so far. This is team football, and he is definitely doing his part to help the team win.

outdoor_miner
10-05-2009, 09:25 AM
He needs to improve some aspects of his game, I'm hoping the glove has been hindering him a bit.

As that comes off and he gets more comfortable in the offense, hopefully he'll be able to move the ball more consistently.

If we're seeing him at his best right now then no, I don't think this is good enough to go all the way with.

I agree. If this is his plateau (and by the way - I really really like Orton), I think we will eventually need a new QB.

However, if he continues to improve, I think he will be good enough to lead this team deep into the playoffs. Better than Dilfer and those ilk. Again - that's assuming he gets better, which I have to think will be the case due to his injury and lack of experience in this offense.

The D will stay good IMO, but it won't stay as good as it has been the first 4 games. If Romo played well yesterday we'd have lost, good as our D was he missed some very makeable throws and that pick by Champ was due to miscommunication more than a great D play. (The pick itself by Champ was amazing, but it should never have been possible.)

This is crap. I've started to see these comments, and they are bull****. Defenses "rattle" quarterbacks when they are constantly bringing pressure and in his face. Sure - on those particular plays, Romo seemed to just miss his target. However, please realize that it was forced because he was not comfortable in the pocket. He knew that he needed to make quick decisions because he didn't have all the time in the world to survey the field. Combine that with the fact that our secondary is scary (QBs better make a perfect throw, or it could be a pick), and the Broncos are "forcing" the unforced errors.

outdoor_miner
10-05-2009, 09:26 AM
We don't need a game manager. We need a QB!

Look, had Romo been ON in this game, like NOT missing receivers and throws he should've completed that our defense didn't have anything to do with, we would be collecting signatures to ship Orton's ass out of town on a rail at this moment...

Thanks God for a great defense, and for lady luck for sticking around
Orton sucks!

Is this post real or sarcastic? I can't tell.

outdoor_miner
10-05-2009, 09:29 AM
I give our defense credit, don't get me wrong. I'm talking about the times he missed when he had all day to throw
You saw the game, right?
Why do you ask?
You know what I mean...

So - you were serious. Like I said before, Romo was not "comfortable" because he knew that the defense was getting after his ass all day. Hill's sack and forced fumble came when Romo had no clue that there was a blitzer. That stuff rattles a qb and forces him into bad plays even when there is not much pressure on the particular play.

tsiguy96
10-05-2009, 11:01 AM
after this offseason and all the doom and gloom, 4-0 STILL isnt enough. sad.

Broncos4tw
10-05-2009, 11:15 AM
Dilfer did not take his team to the SB. Dilfer, just like Orton, kept mistakes to a minimum, and the defense took them to the SB. Orton IS better than Dilfer, but then, Dilfer was CUT after winning the SB, proving what a non-factor he was.

If we play a team that figures out our defense, and puts up, say... 28 or more points, and they play to stop the run, can we win? Based on what I'm seeing so far, probably not. The short passing game will only get you so far. Sideline throws are rare (not enough zip imo), and deep balls are also rare. So far, we are relying on our receivers for YAC to make things happen.

But I hope Orton proves me wrong. The first time he has to shoulder the team and win the game, maybe he will. I hope so anyways. If not, I hope our D keeps playing like they are.

Doggcow
10-05-2009, 11:33 AM
The TD to Moreno was damn near a pick six the other way.
Orton really needs to step it up because sooner or later his misfires are going to hurt.

So when Cutler makes a close play completion in triple coverage its a "great play" but when Orton does it its "stupid" and "should have been a pick six"?