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View Full Version : What has to happen to continue winning?


lex
10-05-2009, 01:54 AM
OK, if the upcoming stretch of games is really what everyone thinks in terms of difficulty what do you think needs to happen to allow continued success?

Im going to say that I think we need one more pass rush threat. I think the good teams will game plan Doom and we really need someone like, say, Ayers to step up. And thankfully, he looks like he's turning the corner. People were talking him up last week but he was even more noticeable this week.

Also, Moreno looks like he is getting a feel for what the pro game is all about. Notice how today he started to juke the safety. For the most part, he's been vanilla and seemingly more focused on taking what the play allowed. He is seeming to run with more freedom because he has a better feel of the speed of the game now. If he can really make strides, that would be huge.

I hate to say it but we need a 3rd corner to step up with Flacco, Brady, R'berger, and Rivers coming up. We need Smith/Williams to really step up.

extralife
10-05-2009, 02:10 AM
We need to be better offensively on third downs. We'll need to hold on to the ball for longer periods of time to keep it up. And we'll need a healthy Buckhalter.

Doggcow
10-05-2009, 02:28 AM
0 turnovers by Orton = wins every time

lex
10-05-2009, 02:29 AM
0 turnovers by Orton = wins every time

0 turnovers for the entire season. That seems realistic.

OCBronco
10-05-2009, 02:46 AM
Fewer penalties overall, especially on offense. Clean up the mistakes and errors on O. Avoid injuries on D (knock on wood.)

As the players on get more comfortable with the offense, I think this team is going to be much tougher to beat as the season wears on.

elsid13
10-05-2009, 03:46 AM
A couple of things

- The Defense needs to tighten up the middle zone. The last couple of weeks that area been open but both QB have failed to connect with their WR

- Orton need to trust his WRs to make a plays. The FG was perfect example of that. He had Marshall one on one in the redzone on rookie. Put the ball up a let him make a play, don't go to the check down so fast

- Champ needs to get healthy. He appears to lost his burst and that why he playing off so much. He movement within 10 yards is good, but he have problem keeping up go routes.

-The offense needs to convert on 3rd downs. Right now it is horrible.

- Royal needs to move to the slot spot. Instead of him playing the outside go deep position in this offense.

-

rastaman
10-05-2009, 04:23 AM
OK, if the upcoming stretch of games is really what everyone thinks in terms of difficulty what do you think needs to happen to allow continued success?

Im going to say that I think we need one more pass rush threat. I think the good teams will game plan Doom and we really need someone like, say, Ayers to step up. And thankfully, he looks like he's turning the corner. People were talking him up last week but he was even more noticeable this week.

Also, Moreno looks like he is getting a feel for what the pro game is all about. Notice how today he started to juke the safety. For the most part, he's been vanilla and seemingly more focused on taking what the play allowed. He is seeming to run with more freedom because he has a better feel of the speed of the game now. If he can really make strides, that would be huge.

I hate to say it but we need a 3rd corner to step up with Flacco, Brady, R'berger, and Rivers coming up. We need Smith/Williams to really step up.

Great observation. I would also add, we still need Orton to step up and relieve the pressure on the Defense. Kyle is managing the games thus far, but sooner or later teams will make Kyle win games despite the great play of the Bronco Defense. My concern is the D will wear down......and then the slide will start.

rastaman
10-05-2009, 04:26 AM
A couple of things

- The Defense needs to tighten up the middle zone. The last couple of weeks that area been open but both QB have failed to connect with their WR

- Orton need to trust his WRs to make a plays. The FG was perfect example of that. He had Marshall one on one in the redzone on rookie. Put the ball up a let him make a play, don't go to the check down so fast

- Champ needs to get healthy. He appears to lost his burst and that why he playing off so much. He movement within 10 yards is good, but he have problem keeping up go routes.

-The offense needs to convert on 3rd downs. Right now it is horrible.

- Royal needs to move to the slot spot. Instead of him playing the outside go deep position in this offense.

-

Those a good observations. But I'll disagree with you on Champ. Romo tested and threw over to Champ side 16 times yesterday and Champ actually played shut down when it counted. I think so long as the Defense is playing well together the more plays and impact Champ will have over the course of the season.

cutthemdown
10-05-2009, 04:28 AM
Orton has to get better. I'm hoping the finger has been bothering him this whole time. Maybe he gets better as each week goes by just because of less pain.

I remember having stitches once on my palm. When I tried to throw a baseball the pain came when I released the ball. I wouldn't be surprised if Orton feels it at the snap, and again as ball leaves his hand. For all we know that thing throbs and is really bothering him.

But if defense keeps shutting people down that may be all we need to do.

Getting to brady and putting him down a bunch almost seems so good it has to be fantasy. We may have that type of pass rush now though. Maybe we will knock him around.

Romo took some shots today.

WolfpackGuy
10-05-2009, 05:50 AM
Not sure if it's the glove, but Orton has to be more accurate.
That one misfire to Gaffney was horrible, and was an easy TD if that ball is even CLOSE.
Also, they need to be more creative in short yardage plays and get Royal more involved on offense.

jhat01
10-05-2009, 06:00 AM
penalties penalties pelanties. These offensive penalties make it hard to sustain drives. There few a few long gains that were caled back yesterday. We need to play "clean" offensively.

fdf
10-05-2009, 07:12 AM
OK, if the upcoming stretch of games is really what everyone thinks in terms of difficulty what do you think needs to happen to allow continued success?

Im going to say that I think we need one more pass rush threat. I think the good teams will game plan Doom and we really need someone like, say, Ayers to step up. And thankfully, he looks like he's turning the corner. People were talking him up last week but he was even more noticeable this week.

Also, Moreno looks like he is getting a feel for what the pro game is all about. Notice how today he started to juke the safety. For the most part, he's been vanilla and seemingly more focused on taking what the play allowed. He is seeming to run with more freedom because he has a better feel of the speed of the game now. If he can really make strides, that would be huge.

I hate to say it but we need a 3rd corner to step up with Flacco, Brady, R'berger, and Rivers coming up. We need Smith/Williams to really step up.

The OL needs to protect Orton better. Dallas does not have a great DL--Oakland's is probably better than Dallas'. But Dallas was all over Orton yesterday. Sacks, hurrys and the pocket was constantly breaking down.

I don't know the game well enough to understand why it happened. But there's no question this was a different game in terms of OL effectiveness against the pass rush than we have seen so far. Whatever pass rush scheming Dallas did is going to keep happening to us until the coaching staff makes some teams pay for doing it.

Punisher
10-05-2009, 07:15 AM
No more Plenty's, The 1st Half of the cowboy game was a headache,and I love the D!

elsid13
10-05-2009, 03:18 PM
Those a good observations. But I'll disagree with you on Champ. Romo tested and threw over to Champ side 16 times yesterday and Champ actually played shut down when it counted. I think so long as the Defense is playing well together the more plays and impact Champ will have over the course of the season.

I think that Cowboys challenged Champ because they something on tape. Champ has been giving receivers a lot cushion this season, almost like he afraid he doesn't have the burst to keep up on the go routes. There were two cases yesterday, that Champ stride didn't look right, almost like he's nursing a hammy. I would be surprised to find out that he a minor pull that preventing him from going full speed.

missingnumber7
10-05-2009, 03:25 PM
simple...we score more...other team scores less...nuf said.

prunch
10-05-2009, 03:30 PM
The only thing that made yesterday and game 1 a real game for us was the offenses ability to stay on the field. I'd like to see us run some more to be honest ..... the long balls will come soon after we drag them up to the line.

HAT
10-05-2009, 03:38 PM
Better scoring to yards ratio. They are leaving about 6 points/game on the field.

Some of it's penalties, some of it's play calling & some of it is Orton's injury/glove.

The old rule of thumb for an efficient offense is roughly 7 points per 100 yards.

Denver is averaging 365 YPG. 7 x 3.65 = 25.5 ppg.

I'd like to see them hang at least 24 on the board in the 4 game stretch of NE, SD, Balt & Pitt.

listopencil
10-05-2009, 03:42 PM
Moreno running effectively, Ayers providing a pass rush and Smith playing Nickle well. If we get impact play from our two 1st rounders and our 2nd rounder (that we spent a 1st on)-we're golden. Other than that, less penalties and better blocking from our O-Line. Orton's finger being 100% would help too.

Rock Chalk
10-05-2009, 03:47 PM
0 turnovers for the entire season. That seems realistic.

No, it's not realistic.

But consider that Denver does have two offensive turnovers and have yielded exactly 0 points off those two turnovers.

That too is probably unrealistic but as long as Orton keeps the turnovers to a minimum throughout the year and they don't come in dangerous area's like our own red zone, I like our D's chances of keeping the team in the game.

SureShot
10-05-2009, 03:50 PM
It simple really. Boob mojo.

SouthCarolinaBronco
10-05-2009, 03:53 PM
Not getting down when we finally lose a game.

cutthemdown
10-05-2009, 04:05 PM
Not sure if it's the glove, but Orton has to be more accurate.
That one misfire to Gaffney was horrible, and was an easy TD if that ball is even CLOSE.
Also, they need to be more creative in short yardage plays and get Royal more involved on offense.

I don't believe creative the right word. They need to get more physical on short yardage. The need to keep the dline out of the backfield on short yardage. And maybe like you say, get less conservative on short yardage and send Marshall deep etc.

On that 3 and 1, that then became a missed 4-1, Broncos missed a great chance to go for a big play on the 3-1 play.

Cowboys had like 9 people in the box.

I'll take Marshall in a jump ball in that situation.

cutthemdown
10-05-2009, 04:06 PM
I will for sure be down when Broncos lose a game. But not on the overall outlook of the team. We are headed right direction.

Rock Chalk
10-05-2009, 04:21 PM
Not sure if it's the glove, but Orton has to be more accurate.
That one misfire to Gaffney was horrible, and was an easy TD if that ball is even CLOSE.
Also, they need to be more creative in short yardage plays and get Royal more involved on offense.

It was close. I mean, he threw the ball at the perfect distance and height, he just led him about 3 yards too much. However, the POSITIVE out of that was that the throw, while a little head would have otherwise been placed absolutely perfectly so it seemed to be a timing issue. I don't recall the play behind the LOS if Orton was hurried or if he had all day but IF he was hurried on that play that could explain it.

McDaniels lamented that missed pass.

As far as his accuracy goes, 20/29 isn't bad. I know a lot of passes are short dump offs that help and that his long ball hasn't quite been exactly on target but then again, we aren't seeing anything we aren't used to there as Cutler also had problems with his long ball.

Anyway, penalties really hurt Denver in the first half.

Drive 1:
1st and 10: Orton to Bucky for 5 yards
2nd and 5: False start
2nd and 10: Incomplete deep to Marshall
3rd and 10: Incomplete to Royal (Newman shoudl have been flagged).
Punt.

First drive, we gain 5 yards and set ourselves up with a nice 2nd and 5 only to be knocked back to 2nd and 10 and two incompletes later we punt. Without that false start penalty however, this drive likely continues as we go a different play call on 2nd and 5.

Drive 2:
1st and 10: Orton incomplete deep to Gaffney (this was just bad timing by Orton, but would have been a TD we all agree had he hit him).
2nd 10: Moreno run for 5 yards.
3rd and 5: False Start
3rd and 10: Incomplete to Gaffney

Once again a false start puts the team in a bad situation where play calls had to change. Both false starts were on Harris btw.

Drive 3 NO PENALTIES, Orton got sacked on a 3rd down after getting 2 first downs forcing a punt.

Drive 4 1 play TD to Moreno

Drive 5
1st and 10, MOreno for 5
2nd and 5: Orton incomplete to Royal
3rd and 5: Orton to Bucky for 23
1st and 10: Incomplete to Scheff, penalty on Scheff for phantom Offensive PI (we all agree on this bull**** call).
1st and 20: Orton pass short to Graham that goes for 15.
2nd and 5: Orton pass to Bucky for 9.
1st and 10: Moreno off right gaurd for 13 yards, penalty on Den offensive Holding.
1st and 20: Orton to Buckhalter for 1 yard. (Bad play call, they saw it coming)
2nd and 19: Orton pass to Marshall for 6 yards, Penalty on Clady for tripping.
2nd and 29: Orton pass to Royal for 4 yards.
3rd and 25: Orton pass to Graham for 13 yards.
Punt

Look, We overcame one 1st and 20 which is a lot to ask for for any offense. We could not over come a 2nd and 29 though and the playcalling suggests that McDaniels conceeded this drive because of Penalties hence the short passing routes called. This drive was promising though, we were starting to move the ball effectively after struggling on the first few drives.

Drive 6
Moreno fumbles.

Drive 7
Orton takes a sack on 2nd and 10 leaving us 3rd and 18 which we promptly gained 17 yards on. 4th and 1, we punted because it was on our own 45. No penalties on this drive and we started at our own 6 yard line and moved it out to the 45 so this was a successful drive in regards to field position.

Drive 8
Starts on a blatant block in the back by everyones favorite Peyton Hillis on the return, giving us really crappy field position on our own 8, again. Still, we drive it to Dallas' 30 (no penalties on us on this drive) only to fail on our 4th and 1 attempt) Orton was perfect on this drive, 3 for 3 but this was a rushing drive where we ran the ball. Also, Buckhalter is injured early in this drive or perhaps we conver the 4th down play.

Drive 9
No penalties again on this drive but Orton sacked again on a jailbreak blitz on 2nd and 10 leaving us a 3rd and 17. We managed to move the ball 23 yards before the sack.

Drive 10
1st and 10: Orton to Marshall for 16.
1st and 10: MOreno for 5
2nd and 5: Orton to Royal for 12, plus 15 for penalty on Ratliff for roughing the passer. (I thought this was a 3rd down play, I was wrong). This play starts on Denvers 46 and ends up on Dallas' 27.
1st and 10: Jordan for 11.
1st and 10: Moreno for 4
2nd and 6: Orton incomplete to Royal
3rd and 6: Orton to Moreno for 2 (this was a designed play with Moreno supposed to make one guy miss, if he does its a td but Scandrick makes a hell of an open field tackle).
FG
Moved from our 25 to Dallas 10 yard line.

Drive 11
1st and 10: Orton to Marshall for 8
2nd and 2: Moreno for 14
1st and 10: Orton to Marshall for 51 and a TD.

The pass to Marshall before the run put is in or very near field goal range. In hindsight, it might have been better for Marshall to not score but hey, who's complaining. However if he doesn't score and we move it down the field a little more and kill the clock then we kick a game winning field goal and Dallas never sees the field.

OR

We turn the ball over

OR

We miss the field goal.

So, best he just scored I guess :)

Anyway, point is, we did move the ball well when there were no penalties and no sacks on us. ERffectively we can over come one, maybe two penalties but its hard as hell for an offense to get into a rhythm when you are faced with 2nd and 29.

Most offenses, except the very few elite ones like Indy and maybe even NO, can over come penalties and sacks in the later downs in any drive unless they are facing the 2008 Broncos. Its hard to build momentum. They are afterall, called drive killers for a reason. When we played clean ball, we moved the ball very well even from really bad starting field position.

outdoor_miner
10-05-2009, 04:31 PM
OK, if the upcoming stretch of games is really what everyone thinks in terms of difficulty what do you think needs to happen to allow continued success?

Im going to say that I think we need one more pass rush threat. I think the good teams will game plan Doom and we really need someone like, say, Ayers to step up. And thankfully, he looks like he's turning the corner. People were talking him up last week but he was even more noticeable this week.

Also, Moreno looks like he is getting a feel for what the pro game is all about. Notice how today he started to juke the safety. For the most part, he's been vanilla and seemingly more focused on taking what the play allowed. He is seeming to run with more freedom because he has a better feel of the speed of the game now. If he can really make strides, that would be huge.

I hate to say it but we need a 3rd corner to step up with Flacco, Brady, R'berger, and Rivers coming up. We need Smith/Williams to really step up.

A few things:

1. I'd say our 3rd corners have already stepped up numerous times. JMFW was in on several plays yesterday (I'm almost positive he made a tackle on the first down play at the end of the game). I was really nervous about him yesterday, and (in my opinion) he came through big time. I thought Smith played awesome in both the Bengals and Browns games. Our secondary has been great, and that includes the 3rd corner. I hope Smith gets healthy soon, as I really believe he can force turnovers... He seems to always be around the ball when he plays.

2. Agreed on the need for someone to generate pressure other than Doom. We've seen pressure from some of the creative blitzes, but it would be great for Ayers to become a weapon rushing the passer. I think he's looked good against Dallas and Cleveland, and was not really noticeable the other 2 games. It would be ideal if he could step it up and bring consistent pressure. The first play of the game, he just abused Adams. I want to see more of that.

3. We need to reduce the penalties. They are just killing the offense, and that WILL eventually come back to haunt us if it isn't corrected. It is really obvious to me how much better the offense functions on 2nd and 5 vs. 2nd and 15. It seems like every time we have a penalty, the drive just stalls, whereas we march the ball down the field when we don't make dumb mistakes.

4. Pray that the injury bug doesn't hit us. We haven't yet lost a key piece of the puzzle for an extended time (here's hoping the Buckhalter injury isn't the first)...

5. Orton needs to keep improving. I'm happy with how he has performed considering his injury and the fact that he is only 4 weeks into learning a new and complicated offense. However, he needs to keep getting better. He's definitely missed some open receivers (the Gaffney play was pretty tough to watch as it looked like an easy play to make), but he's also avoided the costly turnover. Maybe that's what we'll have to rely on. However, I do think he has it in him to be better than what we've seen so far, and be a "very good" quarterback... The comments Aikman made about Orton's performance in practice give me hope that Kyle can be more of a weapon that what we've seen. I certainly believe his arm is strong enough, despite what many said in the offseason and preseason. I have seen him throw the ball numerous times with good zip. However, if we want to be "for real" (a legit playoff team), Orton must get better. I think he can and will. It's what I'm most excited about. The offense clearly hasn't yet gelled, but we are still 4-0. If/when that happens, we will be even tougher.

uplink
10-05-2009, 04:36 PM
To continue winning the Wolverine has to fight off Magneto<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

outdoor_miner
10-05-2009, 04:37 PM
1st and 10: Jordan for 11.

Good post overall, but my jaw practically hit the floor on this play. Jordan actually looked like had had a little "burst" (as opposed to looking like he's moving in slow-motion while the rest of the game goes on at regular speed)...

Arkie
10-05-2009, 05:06 PM
The next month will be a test against the teams we'll see again if we make the playoffs. What has to happen to continue winning against the top 4 AFC teams in a row? I guess the team needs to believe that they're the best in the NFL and then go prove it. Only the best team could continue winning with this schedule.

TotallyScrewed
10-05-2009, 05:42 PM
0 turnovers for the entire season. That seems realistic.

The Broncos don't need to be playing merely 0-0 in the turnover margin. They MUST play in the plus, each and every game. For Denver to continue to win, they must create and capitalize on turnovers.

TotallyScrewed
10-05-2009, 05:53 PM
[QUOTE=Rock Chalk;2584975]It was close. I mean, he threw the ball at the perfect distance and height, he just led him about 3 yards too much. However, the POSITIVE out of that was that the throw, while a little head would have otherwise been placed absolutely perfectly so it seemed to be a timing issue. I don't recall the play behind the LOS if Orton was hurried or if he had all day but IF he was hurried on that play that could explain it.

McDaniels lamented that missed pass.

As far as his accuracy goes, 20/29 isn't bad. I know a lot of passes are short dump offs that help and that his long ball hasn't quite been exactly on target but then again, we aren't seeing anything we aren't used to there as Cutler also had problems with his long ball.

Blah, blah, blah...

Imagine this team with a good QB. Orton is holding them back. Swirl it however you fancy, it's still horse piss...hold your nose and tip your head way back.