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chadta
08-04-2010, 03:29 PM
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/nhl_trying_to_sidestep_cba_gflcMbb7T9DXOCM2puOi9J

normally i think brooks is a bit of a retard, but i think hes pretty bang on here

Hercules Rockefeller
08-09-2010, 03:05 PM
Arbitrator rules that Kovy's deal was an attempt to circumvent the cap and is null and void.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/news/story?id=5450174

gyldenlove
08-09-2010, 03:32 PM
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/nhl_trying_to_sidestep_cba_gflcMbb7T9DXOCM2puOi9J

normally i think brooks is a bit of a retard, but i think hes pretty bang on here

There is a rubber rule in the CBA that all player contracts must be submitted to the NHL and approved by the commissioner, this allows for essentially arbitrary unwritten rules to be applied to player contracts by the commissioner and while the player and/or team can appeal to an independent arbitrator for a final decision, this does definitely introduce the possibility of ad hoc rules to be applied.

I do think the Kovy contract is an obvious attempt at circumventing the salary cap, the chances that Kovalchuk would play until the ripe old age of 44, especially at 550k per year for 5 years, are miniscule.

This should be addressed in the next CBA, presumably adding some sort of clause that says something like the minimum annual salary on a contract can be no less than 50% of the maximum annual salary on that same contract. So if a player is offered 10 million a year for any period of time during a contract, the minimum annual salary can be no less than 5 million, this would prevent these super long cap friendly contracts.

SoCalBronco
08-09-2010, 05:50 PM
Your move, Lou.

Ray Finkle
08-09-2010, 06:29 PM
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/nhl_trying_to_sidestep_cba_gflcMbb7T9DXOCM2puOi9J

normally i think brooks is a bit of a retard, but i think hes pretty bang on here

Brooks is a tard.....although the post game fights between him and Torts are worth watching.

24champ
08-09-2010, 08:00 PM
Brooks is a tard.....although the post game fights between him and Torts are worth watching.

Those are laugh riots. Torts owned Brooks.

chadta
08-10-2010, 10:44 AM
There is a rubber rule in the CBA that all player contracts must be submitted to the NHL and approved by the commissioner, this allows for essentially arbitrary unwritten rules to be applied to player contracts by the commissioner and while the player and/or team can appeal to an independent arbitrator for a final decision, this does definitely introduce the possibility of ad hoc rules to be applied.

i think we all know what the contract was trying to do, here is the big problem

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=330099

Canucks general manager Mike Gillis confirmed to the Vancouver Sun via email late Monday night that the league is looking into Roberto Luongo's 12-year contract that was signed last fall.

how the hell can the league now look into contracts it has already approved ?

24champ
08-10-2010, 10:46 AM
how the hell can the league now look into contracts it has already approved ?

There's nothing to prevent the league from looking at contracts at anytime. It's in the CBA, and they will probably, if not already, look into Hossa's contract.

Baba Booey
08-10-2010, 11:06 AM
This is getting ridiculous.

Not only the Kovalchuk contract (which was within the rules of the CBA, which should NOT be open to interpretation by some douche bag), but now they're looking into players who have played games under the contracts in question?

Who is this guy to say when Kovalchuk will retire and when he won't? Chelios just played in the league at age 48.

If the NHL actually looks into them and voids those contracts, there will be another lockout.

Hercules Rockefeller
08-10-2010, 11:15 AM
Teams starting abusing the system and the league isn't going to let it get out of hand.

Keith and Carter are probably ok since those deals expire when both should still reasonably expect to be playing.

Ovechkin and Backstrom are fine. Crosby and Malkin only signed 5-year deals.

I thought they looked into Hossa's last year? Nothing will be done with Pronger's since the league's interpretation was that since he was 35 before the extension kicked in, Philly is on the hook for the hit for the entire length of the deal.

Luongo might be in trouble, Hossa too if they want to re-evaluate the deal.

24champ
08-10-2010, 11:30 AM
This is getting ridiculous.

Not only the Kovalchuk contract (which was within the rules of the CBA, which should NOT be open to interpretation by some douche bag), but now they're looking into players who have played games under the contracts in question?

Who is this guy to say when Kovalchuk will retire and when he won't? Chelios just played in the league at age 48.

If the NHL actually looks into them and voids those contracts, there will be another lockout.

I don't think it is getting ridiculous, the NHL is obviously clamping down on cap circumvention. The Kovalchuk contract definitely went way too far in circumventing the cap, teams are abusing the spirit of the CBA...and in the same CBA, the NHL has the authority to look into contracts, as well as void contracts at anytime it wants to. Doesn't matter if said player is currently playing under it.

gyldenlove
08-10-2010, 11:39 AM
This is getting ridiculous.

Not only the Kovalchuk contract (which was within the rules of the CBA, which should NOT be open to interpretation by some douche bag), but now they're looking into players who have played games under the contracts in question?

Who is this guy to say when Kovalchuk will retire and when he won't? Chelios just played in the league at age 48.

If the NHL actually looks into them and voids those contracts, there will be another lockout.

In the CBA it says very clearly that ALL contracts must be approved by the commissioner and/or an arbitrator, the commissioner is not only within his right, he was under duty to determine if the contracts submitted are in accordance with the spirit of the CBA, and that an independent arbitrator agrees with him seems to justify his original judgement.

Unlike normal laws, a CBA can not be changed when a flaw is found, so it is up to those who signed the CBA to ensure that loopholes are not abused.

There may be a strike, but certainly no lockout, any strike the players would go on now would be illegal and constitute a violation of the CBA, that would give the owners a MASSIVE bargaining chip when it comes to the next CBA which would most likely be cashed in in the form of another salary rollback.

gyldenlove
08-10-2010, 11:48 AM
Teams starting abusing the system and the league isn't going to let it get out of hand.

Keith and Carter are probably ok since those deals expire when both should still reasonably expect to be playing.

Ovechkin and Backstrom are fine. Crosby and Malkin only signed 5-year deals.

I thought they looked into Hossa's last year? Nothing will be done with Pronger's since the league's interpretation was that since he was 35 before the extension kicked in, Philly is on the hook for the hit for the entire length of the deal.

Luongo might be in trouble, Hossa too if they want to re-evaluate the deal.

It depends how many years at low salary they feel are warranted at the back end of a contract. Kovalchuk had I believe 5 years at minimum salary (500k). The previous model for a deal was a pretty flat salary for a number of years (typically 6 - 9 years) and then one year at an intermediate salary and then a drop to 1 million for 2-4 years.

I suppose it also comes down to what the league believes the probability of the player still playing is. The age for forwards on long contracts (Franzen, Hossa, Zetterberg) when the contract expires seem to be 40 or 41, Luongo is at 43 but as a goalie he might be able to play longer in a backup role.

The Mike Richards deal seems very kosher, it only goes until he is around 35, starts a little low, rises and then goes back down to around 3 mill a year.

chadta
08-10-2010, 11:49 AM
There's nothing to prevent the league from looking at contracts at anytime. It's in the CBA, and they will probably, if not already, look into Hossa's contract.


http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf

theres the CBA, show me where it says that the league can go back and tear up a contract it has already approved, and the player has been playing under for however many years, ill save you the trouble, look on page 40 which is actually page 58 of the pdf

11.1 Standard Player's Contract. The standard form SPC annexed hereto as Exhibit
1 will be the sole form of employment contract used for all Player signings after the
execution of this Agreement. The standard form SPC may not be amended or modified
in any manner whatsoever. Filed form 1995 SPCs will be considered valid and effective
until their expiration, as deemed modified by this Agreement and the Compliance Rules
attached as Exhibit 16 hereto, provided, however, that notwithstanding anything to the
contrary contained herein, any previously, and still outstanding, rejected SPC shall not be
deemed to be registered or approved pursuant to this provision or otherwise, and such
rejected SPC shall be grieved in accordance with Article 17 of this Agreement

page 62 says they can look into and de regulate, but only within 60 days, these guys have been playing for a year plus already, even your math cant be that bad champ

Subsequent Challenge and/or De-Registration of SPCs.
Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this Section 11.6, an approved and registered
SPC may be subject to subsequent challenge and/or de-registration by the League: (i) in the case of a Circumvention relating to either the Club Upper Limit or the Maximum
Player Salary, within sixty (60) days from the date upon which the facts of the
Circumvention became known or reasonably should have been known to the NHL, or
(ii) in the case of a challenge pursuant to (i) or (ii) below, within fourteen (14) days from
the date upon which the SPC was approved by the NHL, in each case as follows:

gyldenlove
08-10-2010, 12:03 PM
http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf

theres the CBA, show me where it says that the league can go back and tear up a contract it has already approved, and the player has been playing under for however many years, ill save you the trouble, look on page 40 which is actually page 58 of the pdf

11.1 Standard Player's Contract. The standard form SPC annexed hereto as Exhibit
1 will be the sole form of employment contract used for all Player signings after the
execution of this Agreement. The standard form SPC may not be amended or modified
in any manner whatsoever. Filed form 1995 SPCs will be considered valid and effective
until their expiration, as deemed modified by this Agreement and the Compliance Rules
attached as Exhibit 16 hereto, provided, however, that notwithstanding anything to the
contrary contained herein, any previously, and still outstanding, rejected SPC shall not be
deemed to be registered or approved pursuant to this provision or otherwise, and such
rejected SPC shall be grieved in accordance with Article 17 of this Agreement

page 62 says they can look into and de regulate, but only within 60 days, these guys have been playing for a year plus already, even your math cant be that bad champ

Subsequent Challenge and/or De-Registration of SPCs.
Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this Section 11.6, an approved and registered
SPC may be subject to subsequent challenge and/or de-registration by the League: (i) in the case of a Circumvention relating to either the Club Upper Limit or the Maximum
Player Salary, within sixty (60) days from the date upon which the facts of the
Circumvention became known or reasonably should have been known to the NHL, or
(ii) in the case of a challenge pursuant to (i) or (ii) below, within fourteen (14) days from
the date upon which the SPC was approved by the NHL, in each case as follows:

the case of a Circumvention relating to either the Club Upper Limit or the Maximum
Player Salary, within sixty (60) days from the date upon which the facts of the
Circumvention became known or reasonably should have been known to the NHL,

It is very easy to argue that the circumvention was not known to the NHL prior to the arbitrators ruling.

24champ
08-10-2010, 12:15 PM
http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf

theres the CBA, show me where it says that the league can go back and tear up a contract it has already approved, and the player has been playing under for however many years, ill save you the trouble, look on page 40 which is actually page 58 of the pdf

11.1 Standard Player's Contract. The standard form SPC annexed hereto as Exhibit
1 will be the sole form of employment contract used for all Player signings after the
execution of this Agreement. The standard form SPC may not be amended or modified
in any manner whatsoever. Filed form 1995 SPCs will be considered valid and effective
until their expiration, as deemed modified by this Agreement and the Compliance Rules
attached as Exhibit 16 hereto, provided, however, that notwithstanding anything to the
contrary contained herein, any previously, and still outstanding, rejected SPC shall not be
deemed to be registered or approved pursuant to this provision or otherwise, and such
rejected SPC shall be grieved in accordance with Article 17 of this Agreement

page 62 says they can look into and de regulate, but only within 60 days, these guys have been playing for a year plus already, even your math cant be that bad champ

Subsequent Challenge and/or De-Registration of SPCs.
Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this Section 11.6, an approved and registered
SPC may be subject to subsequent challenge and/or de-registration by the League: (i) in the case of a Circumvention relating to either the Club Upper Limit or the Maximum
Player Salary, within sixty (60) days from the date upon which the facts of the
Circumvention became known or reasonably should have been known to the NHL, or
(ii) in the case of a challenge pursuant to (i) or (ii) below, within fourteen (14) days from
the date upon which the SPC was approved by the NHL, in each case as follows:

Technically they can, Loungo's extension kicked in on July first. Thought you Canadians get hockey news 24/7 up there?

That being said, I think it is more likely that you will see docked draft picks and fines for everyone involved in said bad contract.

chadta
08-10-2010, 12:21 PM
Technically they can, Loungo's extension kicked in on July first. Thought you Canadians get hockey news 24/7 up there?

when it kicked in dosent matter, its from the date of approval

what about hossa ? his contract is just as suspect, whats to stop theleague from voiding it, and then voiding the hawks of wins, and removing the cup from them since a player with an illegal contract played on the team ?

yes im talking stupid, but if betman can get away with what hes trying to do now then it could all happen.

24champ
08-25-2010, 12:43 PM
The Kings have reached an agreement with defenseman Willie Mitchell for a two-year contract worth $3.5 million per year.

http://media.canada.com/bdbffb02-dc75-420e-8b09-c7871e3d0f7a/0511willie.jpg

I like the Mitchell signing, not really enthusiastic about the dollars...but least it is a short term contract.

Doughty-Scuderi
Johnson-Mitchell
Hickey/Voynov-Greene

gyldenlove
08-25-2010, 12:48 PM
when it kicked in dosent matter, its from the date of approval

what about hossa ? his contract is just as suspect, whats to stop theleague from voiding it, and then voiding the hawks of wins, and removing the cup from them since a player with an illegal contract played on the team ?

yes im talking stupid, but if betman can get away with what hes trying to do now then it could all happen.

Just like the Broncos didn't lose the Lombardi trophy for circumventing the cap, the Hawks won't lose the Stanley cup even if the Hossa contract is voided.

A game is a game is a game, the only way to nullify a game is if outright cheating such as bribery happens and even then it has to be extremely specific. If Chicago was found to have circumvented the cap with the Hossa contract, expect them to forfeit a draft pick or two and maybe end up with a cap penalty.

gyldenlove
08-25-2010, 12:48 PM
The Kings have reached an agreement with defenseman Willie Mitchell for a two-year contract worth $3.5 million per year.

http://media.canada.com/bdbffb02-dc75-420e-8b09-c7871e3d0f7a/0511willie.jpg

I like the Mitchell signing, not really enthusiastic about the dollars...but least it is a short term contract.

Doughty-Scuderi
Johnson-Mitchell
Hickey/Voynov-Greene

3.5 is a bit much for Mitchell given his injury, 2.5 would have been a better number, but he can still play if he is healthy.

Ray Finkle
08-25-2010, 12:59 PM
3.5 is a bit much for Mitchell given his injury, 2.5 would have been a better number, but he can still play if he is healthy.

3.5 is on par....Mitchell would have commanded more if he didn't have Lindros head.

chadta
08-25-2010, 01:02 PM
Just like the Broncos didn't lose the Lombardi trophy for circumventing the cap, the Hawks won't lose the Stanley cup even if the Hossa contract is voided.

A game is a game is a game, the only way to nullify a game is if outright cheating such as bribery happens and even then it has to be extremely specific. If Chicago was found to have circumvented the cap with the Hossa contract, expect them to forfeit a draft pick or two and maybe end up with a cap penalty.

logic has no place in any discussion about what betman and the other retards in the nhl head office might do.

just look at phoenix if you need any more proof, that team should have been folded long ago.

gyldenlove
08-25-2010, 01:07 PM
logic has no place in any discussion about what betman and the other retards in the nhl head office might do.

just look at phoenix if you need any more proof, that team should have been folded long ago.

Nah, they couldn't allow it to fold that would allow the blackberry guy to buy it and move it which would be good for the sport but bad for Bettmans ego.

gyldenlove
08-25-2010, 01:10 PM
3.5 is on par....Mitchell would have commanded more if he didn't have Lindros head.

Absolutely, but 3.5 is a lot for a guy with a bad head who will almost certainly not play anywhere near 82 games.

24champ
08-25-2010, 01:17 PM
3.5 is a bit much for Mitchell given his injury, 2.5 would have been a better number, but he can still play if he is healthy.

Kings aren't the Detroit Red Wings YET, but once the winning and playoff appearances get more consistent, players will come at cheaper rates for LA.

Plus this signing keeps Mitchell off the San Jose Sharks, and also that the Kings were a bit desperate with injury to Matt Greene who will be back at some point in the early part of the season. At this point, Kings can afford to burn some salary cap for the short term.

gyldenlove
08-25-2010, 01:22 PM
Kings aren't the Detroit Red Wings YET, but once the winning and playoff appearances get more consistent, players will come at cheaper rates for LA.

Plus this signing keeps Mitchell off the San Jose Sharks, and also that the Kings were a bit desperate with injury to Matt Greene who will be back at some point in the early part of the season. At this point, Kings can afford to burn some salary cap for the short term.

Absolutely and I do like the way the Kings are heading, unlike a few of the other teams who have struggled for a while they are not panicking, they are taking what they can get and developing young players and drafting well.

They are really only a top goalie performance and maybe a solid veteran defenseman away from playing for that division win.

SoCalBronco
09-01-2010, 09:26 PM
Woah.....the league is really using Arbitrator Richard Bloch's decision to bend the union over...

NHL Gives NHLPA Ultimatum
September 1, 2010, 10:23 PM ET [40 Comments] Share |

Jan Levine
New York Rangers Blogger • RSS • Archive • CONTACT • Bio


If what Larry Brooks has written in the NY Post is true, lines in sand have been set and we may be headed for armageddon. Per Brooks (this is taken directly and word-for-word from the article), "the league has informed the Players' Assn. that the league will grandfather the recently submitted Kovalchuk 15-year, $100M contract, Luongo's 12-year, $64M deal that is entering its second season and Hossa's 12-year, $63.3M deal that also is entering its second season into the CBA with certain conditions."

1. That the cap hit on future multi-year contracts will not count any seasons that end with the player over 40 years of age. The cap hit would be calculated on the average of the salary up through age 40 only.

2. That the cap hit on future contracts longer than five years will be calculated under a formula granting additional weight to the five years with the highest salary.

The league has given the PA, which is being directed by Donald Fehr, until Friday at 5 pm to accept these conditions.

Now here is the key, if the PA refuses, or if negotiations fail to yield a common ground, the league has informed the PA that:
1. It will reject the Kovalchuk contract.
2. It will move to immediately devoid the Luongo contract.
3. It will move to immediately open proceedings for a formal investigation into the Hossa contract.
The NHL owns sweeping punitive powers against teams and players judged guilty of circumvention under Article 26 of the CBA.

All hockey fans, welcome to armageddon as we know it.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Jan-Levine/NHL-Gives-NHLPA-Ultimatum/89/29993

Ray Finkle
09-02-2010, 05:29 AM
Woah.....the league is really using Arbitrator Richard Bloch's decision to bend the union over...

NHL Gives NHLPA Ultimatum
September 1, 2010, 10:23 PM ET [40 Comments] Share |

Jan Levine
New York Rangers Blogger RSS Archive CONTACT Bio


If what Larry Brooks has written in the NY Post is true, lines in sand have been set and we may be headed for armageddon. Per Brooks (this is taken directly and word-for-word from the article), "the league has informed the Players' Assn. that the league will grandfather the recently submitted Kovalchuk 15-year, $100M contract, Luongo's 12-year, $64M deal that is entering its second season and Hossa's 12-year, $63.3M deal that also is entering its second season into the CBA with certain conditions."

1. That the cap hit on future multi-year contracts will not count any seasons that end with the player over 40 years of age. The cap hit would be calculated on the average of the salary up through age 40 only.

2. That the cap hit on future contracts longer than five years will be calculated under a formula granting additional weight to the five years with the highest salary.

The league has given the PA, which is being directed by Donald Fehr, until Friday at 5 pm to accept these conditions.

Now here is the key, if the PA refuses, or if negotiations fail to yield a common ground, the league has informed the PA that:
1. It will reject the Kovalchuk contract.
2. It will move to immediately devoid the Luongo contract.
3. It will move to immediately open proceedings for a formal investigation into the Hossa contract.
The NHL owns sweeping punitive powers against teams and players judged guilty of circumvention under Article 26 of the CBA.

All hockey fans, welcome to armageddon as we know it.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Jan-Levine/NHL-Gives-NHLPA-Ultimatum/89/29993

any time you base your article on Larry Brooks = Fail

chadta
09-02-2010, 11:42 AM
any time you base your article on Larry Brooks = Fail


http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=332412

NO ULTIMATUM ISSUED BY NHL IN KOVALCHUK CONTRACT SAGA

ill take tsn over brooks anyday

24champ
09-02-2010, 11:51 AM
any time you base your article on Larry Brooks = Fail

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gyldenlove
09-02-2010, 11:59 AM
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=332412

NO ULTIMATUM ISSUED BY NHL IN KOVALCHUK CONTRACT SAGA

ill take tsn over brooks anyday

When it comes to the NHL there are very few outlets I take over TSN, they are usually pretty spot on.

SoCalBronco
09-03-2010, 08:45 AM
The Penguins informed Bill Guerin that he won't be returning (thank God, he singlehandedly cost Sid the Art Ross last year). Looks like its a lock that Geno is moving to wing on the 2nd line as they signed Arron Asham to help fill the third line duties now that Staal is moving up to center the 2nd line. Unfortunately, Staal's foot injury from the MTL series has not quite healed up and he won't be available for the start of training camp.

Penguins added Mike Comrie today on a 1 year, 500k deal. Maybe he can parade Hilary Duff around Pittsburgh.

gyldenlove
09-03-2010, 08:49 AM
The Penguins informed Bill Guerin that he won't be returning (thank God, he singlehandedly cost Sid the Art Ross last year). Looks like its a lock that Geno is moving to wing on the 2nd line as they signed Arron Asham to help fill the third line duties now that Staal is moving up to center the 2nd line. Unfortunately, Staal's foot injury from the MTL series has not quite healed up and he won't be available for the start of training camp.

Penguins added Mike Comrie today on a 1 year, 500k deal. Maybe he can parade Hilary Duff around Pittsburgh.

What are the chances that Comrie gets traded at the deadline to bring in some scoring help? 50/50?

Baba Booey
09-04-2010, 12:37 AM
Kovalchuk officially a Devil for 15 years.

Great day to be a Devils fan.