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phillybroncosnut
06-06-2010, 09:07 PM
oh no im being ignored by somebody who discovered hockey 2 weeks ago

what so ever shall i do

LMAO

I take back what I said about Leighton losing his job. Boosh looked worse. God his reaction time is sooooooooooooo slooooooooooooooow right now. No time to waste. Gotta depend on Leights.
BTW, Hoag and Chad, Leighton took a puck off the inside of his knee, where there is no padding in pregame warmups tonight. He left warmups early. I'm really hoping this isnt true and if it is, this isnt the reason for the 2 weak goals tonight.

phillybroncosnut
06-06-2010, 09:09 PM
Not all of us are bandwagon hoppers, you know.

Killer is the ONLY Hawks fan I remember here for years. Not only that, when we started an NHL thread years ago, i always remember him chiming in.... get this, IN THE REGULAR season. Imagine that.... PPL actually talk hockey all year. Not these johnny come lately's.

no biggie.... on to game 6.... THEN GAME 7

Hogan11
06-06-2010, 09:10 PM
LMAO

I take back what I said about Leighton losing his job. Boosh looked worse. God his reaction time is sooooooooooooo slooooooooooooooow right now. No time to waste. Gotta depend on Leights.
BTW, Hoag and Chad, Leighton took a puck off the inside of his knee, where there is no padding in pregame warmups tonight. He left warmups early. I'm really hoping this isnt true and if it is, this isnt the reason for the 2 weak goals tonight.

He looked good before giving up that first goal, after that, he crumbled

phillybroncosnut
06-06-2010, 09:15 PM
He looked good before giving up that first goal, after that, he crumbled

First goal was unfortunate... Just one of them things. Shot, hits Prong's skate and just sneaks between Leights skate and the pipe. After that, he really lost focus. But, I do agree, he looked very sharp before that goal.
Honestly, Leights is our best hope. Boosh just doesnt have it.

chadta
06-06-2010, 09:30 PM
Not all of us are bandwagon hoppers, you know.

i wasnt talkin about you dood, ill second what pbn said earlier, if we happen to lose your the only one i will congratulate

ive known your a fan forever

Hogan11
06-06-2010, 09:44 PM
First goal was unfortunate... Just one of them things. Shot, hits Prong's skate and just sneaks between Leights skate and the pipe. After that, he really lost focus. But, I do agree, he looked very sharp before that goal.
Honestly, Leights is our best hope. Boosh just doesnt have it.

I've said it many times on here, I just can't totally believe in Boucher.

Leighton's journeyman magic appears to me to be dissipating as well.....and at the worst possible time. It seems like lately once he's scored upon, he tanks.

Kid A
06-06-2010, 09:51 PM
To be clear here, I live in Chicago so I'm definitely pulling for the Hawks, but I'm first and only really an Avs fan. I've enjoyed seeing the city get excited about hockey, even if a lot of them didn't know an offside from an icing a couple years ago. It's also been fun to watch their younger group of talent come together over the last few years. I can only hope the Avs young core emerges with equal success in the coming years.

Baba Booey
06-06-2010, 10:00 PM
Byfuglien is the ****ing man. Wish he was on the Devils.

SoCalBronco
06-06-2010, 10:57 PM
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That was ****ing awesome.

:notworthy

When they said "towes" and "third half" it totally reminded me of tsiguy. LOL

Killericon
06-07-2010, 12:13 AM
Killer is the ONLY Hawks fan I remember here for years. Not only that, when we started an NHL thread years ago, i always remember him chiming in.... get this, IN THE REGULAR season. Imagine that.... PPL actually talk hockey all year. Not these johnny come lately's.

no biggie.... on to game 6.... THEN GAME 7

i wasnt talkin about you dood, ill second what pbn said earlier, if we happen to lose your the only one i will congratulate

ive known your a fan forever


Check out my 2nd post in this thread from 2007. (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=52750)

Also, good to know. I'll be pretty congratulatory if we should lose*knock on wood*.

chadta
06-07-2010, 05:09 AM
Check out my 2nd post in this thread from 2007. (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=52750)

Also, good to know. I'll be pretty congratulatory if we should lose*knock on wood*.

thats it remind us that we were the worst team, and still didnt get to pick first overall

broncosteven
06-07-2010, 09:55 AM
Killer is the ONLY Hawks fan I remember here for years. Not only that, when we started an NHL thread years ago, i always remember him chiming in.... get this, IN THE REGULAR season. Imagine that.... PPL actually talk hockey all year. Not these johnny come lately's.

no biggie.... on to game 6.... THEN GAME 7

I admit giving up on the Blackhawks in the mid 90's after Bill Wirtz went into firesale mode and refused to show homegames on TV. I didn't go to a game unless I got free tix.

But once Bill Died and Rocky took over I started going to games on my dime, DVR'ing them since they were now on TV at home and buying gear. I went to my fair share of Chicago stadium games back in the day, for me football has been #1 but I was just as excited in 1990 and 1992 as I am now.

The only people I know who stuck by the Hawks are the local hockey people who play pickup games and who are either exclusively Hockey fans or their 1st sport is hockey. I have been in the UC when they have had only 8k in attendance and the upper bowl had more people in it than the lower bowl.

The friend I go with who bought season Tix had then back in late 80's & early 90's but refused to watch the crap Wirtz was putting on the ice so he let them go but the year after Bill died he picked up some great seats in the lower bowl.

I know I have posted about the hawks since Rocky took over and admit to not being a diehard for hockey but I follow them and buy the gear and take the daughter when I can.

I know 80smith has posted blackhawk stuff before this season there are a couple others who pop up here and there, not at the level of Killer but we were out there. If you really followed Hockey you would know that Bill Wirtz was considered the worst owner in sports and why hockey almost died in Chicago.

I am just glad that this team is one win away from what the Savard, Larmer, Roenick, Yawney, Belfour team couldn't do.

Go Hawks.

Niemi for MVP.

Killericon
06-07-2010, 11:47 AM
thats it remind us that we were the worst team, and still didnt get to pick first overall

Yeah, and just how badly did that work out for you?

chadta
06-07-2010, 11:57 AM
Yeah, and just how badly did that work out for you?

i dunno kane is a vital part of your team, JVR has been a healthy scratch for a couple of games, maybe in a couple years once jvrs body catches up to him he plays a bigger game, but right now id still rather have kane, no matter how much of a douche he is off the ice.

Baba Booey
06-07-2010, 12:08 PM
I wish JVR tried when he was at UNH. We would have gone pretty damn far.

Killericon
06-07-2010, 04:34 PM
i dunno kane is a vital part of your team, JVR has been a healthy scratch for a couple of games, maybe in a couple years once jvrs body catches up to him he plays a bigger game, but right now id still rather have kane, no matter how much of a douche he is off the ice.

So would I, but JVR is a great prospect. He's better than any other out of that top 10(other than Kane). Lone term, he's looking great(IMO). Short term, you're in the Stanley Cup Finals. :thumbsup:

chadta
06-08-2010, 05:07 AM
So would I, but JVR is a great prospect. He's better than any other out of that top 10(other than Kane). Lone term, he's looking great(IMO). Short term, you're in the Stanley Cup Finals. :thumbsup:

which would have been fine if we finished in the bottom 10, but we were dead last by a long shot, and didnt even get the best player out of the draft. If we dont win the cup, it leaves alot of what if questions , ya know what i mean.

Hogan11
06-08-2010, 09:03 AM
which would have been fine if we finished in the bottom 10, but we were dead last by a long shot, and didnt even get the best player out of the draft. If we dont win the cup, it leaves alot of what if questions , ya know what i mean.

It just wasn't right.

Hogan11
06-08-2010, 09:07 AM
That was ****ing awesome.

:notworthy

When they said "towes" and "third half" it totally reminded me of tsiguy. LOL

Now that was funny Hilarious!

chadta
06-09-2010, 01:53 PM
oh this is too much

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/frequentflyers/Chicago_sets_parade_plans.html#axzz0qOCF85Wk

come on guys make them pay for this

GO FLYERS !!!!!!!!!!!!

Hogan11
06-09-2010, 02:08 PM
oh this is too much

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/frequentflyers/Chicago_sets_parade_plans.html#axzz0qOCF85Wk

come on guys make them pay for this

GO FLYERS !!!!!!!!!!!!

Already planning the victory parade eh?

Karma usually frowns upon such arrogance.

Orange & Black against the world, GO FLYERS!!!

Killericon
06-09-2010, 04:50 PM
Not what I think, but here's a poster from todays' Tribune.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2010-06/54183319.jpg

broncosteven
06-09-2010, 07:51 PM
Pronger reminds me of Romo, a guy who you love when he is on your team but despise if he isn't.

Very exciting game and series. Hawks were 5 min from taking the cup.

GO Hawks!

Killericon
06-09-2010, 08:09 PM
Hell yes.

SouthStndJunkie
06-09-2010, 08:12 PM
The Bowman family wins another Stanley Cup.

chadta
06-09-2010, 08:15 PM
Hell yes.

congrats dood, i cant tell ya how much it hurts to lose on a ****ty goal like that.

broncosteven
06-09-2010, 08:30 PM
Bronco's Back to back, 2005 White Sox win it all, now the Blackhawks. My wife's grandfather was a diehard Cub fan and he never saw his team win it all. I have now seen all 3 of my favorite teams in 3 different sports win it all.

Back in 1996 I never thought I would root for a Champion now all 3 of my favorite teams in the sports I follow have won.

Props to the Flyers they played tough the whole way.

broncosteven
06-09-2010, 08:31 PM
I knew there was a chance at the cup after Rocky took over from his dad who ran the team into the ground. Thanks Rocky for making all the right moves.

SoCalBronco
06-09-2010, 08:38 PM
Congrats to killericon and the other Hawk fans on winning the Stanley Cup. Chicago was really impressive in the playoffs and also the regular season. A very worthy champion.

This was a really great series. As much as I absolutely hate them, the Flyers definitely earned my respect. They overcame so much in the postseason and never stopped fighting. Ever. You've got alot of to be proud of Hogan, Philly and Chadta.

Really nice Stanley Cup Final this year for NHL fans. :strong:

Killericon
06-09-2010, 08:39 PM
congrats dood, i cant tell ya how much it hurts to lose on a ****ty goal like that.

You'll be back. Good series, man. Great series.

phillybroncosnut
06-09-2010, 08:41 PM
Congrats to the Hawks and their fans. Great team, Great series, heart crushing ending. My team made me very proud. There isnt another team with bigger stones then this team. The only thing that bugs me most is all the soft goals that Leighton allowed. Also, the last guy I wanted to see score the game winner is the guy who beats up taxi cab drivers and doesnt pay the bill....Thats the hurt talking in me.
Proud of the Flyers fans cheering the hawks as they skated with the Cup. No one will mention that nationally butI just hope some noticed.

Killer, enjoy it bro. My blood ran cold when the puck went in. I know how you felt watching your team in celebration. It probably hasnt hit you yet. Enjoy it bro. I'm 35 now and this is the 5th defeat I've seen and still havent seen the Flyers skate with the cup (save for the clips of the broad street bullies. Congrats man...

Damn this hurts

SoCalBronco
06-09-2010, 09:04 PM
Incidentally, I was very happy for Hossa. I hated him before when he left us, but he never badmouthed Pittsburgh and conducted himself with grace last year in the Final. He suffered alot...good to see that he got his day in the sun.

phillybroncosnut
06-09-2010, 09:06 PM
Incidentally, I was very happy for Hossa. I hated him before when he left us, but he never badmouthed Pittsburgh and conducted himself with grace last year in the Final. He suffered alot...good to see that he got his day in the sun.

Now Ville Leino is saddled with losing 2 straight cups with 2 different teams... I look at this kid and think "how the hell did Detroit give him away"? He has stud written all over him

SoCalBronco
06-09-2010, 09:10 PM
Now Ville Leino is saddled with losing 2 straight cups with 2 different teams... I look at this kid and think "how the hell did Detroit give him away"? He has stud written all over him

Leino was a monster in the postseason...esp in the Final.

Tombstone RJ
06-09-2010, 09:22 PM
Glad to see Quinville get a cup. He was with the Avs when they won their first cup, he's a great coach and he's put in his time, good to see it payoff.

chadta
06-09-2010, 09:35 PM
Now Ville Leino is saddled with losing 2 straight cups with 2 different teams... I look at this kid and think "how the hell did Detroit give him away"? He has stud written all over him

i think it was a cap thing, just like us having to trade upshall for carcillo to get the 300,000 in space to fill the roster

chadta
06-09-2010, 09:43 PM
http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2010/2/6/1298341/ville-leino-traded-to-the-flyers

Ville Leino has been traded to the Philadelphia Flyers (http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/teams/PHI) for a 5th round pick and Ole-Kristian Tollefsen. What this means is Detroit is making enough room to return Franzen to the line-up. The highly touted elite scorer in the Finnish league struggled to produce in the NHL under the Red Wings (http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/teams/DET) system.

Kid A
06-09-2010, 09:55 PM
Never thought I'd see this city lose its mind for the Hawks. Fun night to see. Congrats Hawks fans!

Hogan11
06-09-2010, 10:12 PM
Congrats to the Hawks and their fans. Great team, Great series, heart crushing ending. My team made me very proud. There isnt another team with bigger stones then this team. The only thing that bugs me most is all the soft goals that Leighton allowed.

This pretty much sums it up for me. The heart and fight in this team was really something special...if only they had a top notch goalie.

Congrats to the fans of the Blackhawks on a great series and a long deserved win.

Kid A
06-09-2010, 11:08 PM
This pretty much sums it up for me. The heart and fight in this team was really something special...if only they had a top notch goalie.

Congrats to the fans of the Blackhawks on a great series and a long deserved win.

I always think it's cool when a low seeded team can make a run. I remember Edmonton doing it a few years back. From qualifying on the last day in a shootout to the historic Boston series, you guys should still have fond memories of this run for a long time.

phillybroncosnut
06-09-2010, 11:17 PM
It wasnt a "low seed" thing... This team is top 3 in a top heavy East. Pitts, Wash and the Flyers. The only reason we were the 7 seed was due to an absurd amount of injuries. We went through not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4 but 7, yes, SEVEN Goalies throughout the year, to say nothing of the extended injuries to guys like Gagne, Carter, and Giroux, just to name a few.
It is what it is, but, a 7 seed doesnt define this team.

Kid A
06-09-2010, 11:24 PM
It wasnt a "low seed" thing... This team is top 3 in a top heavy East. Pitts, Wash and the Flyers. The only reason we were the 7 seed was due to an absurd amount of injuries. We went through not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4 but 7, yes, SEVEN Goalies throughout the year, to say nothing of the extended injuries to guys like Gagne, Carter, and Giroux, just to name a few.
It is what it is, but, a 7 seed doesnt define this team.

That makes sense. Honestly don't follow the Eastern that closely, but I knew you guys have been a major contender their for the last few years.

Seven goalies? Sounds like Denver RBs a couple years ago.

24champ
06-09-2010, 11:40 PM
Where are the a-holes that say I jinxed the Blackhawks earlier in the thread?:approve:


On a side note, did anyone see Jeremy Roenick crying in the postgame on NBC? What an attention whore that guy is. "I didn't win a cup, wah wah wah!"

SoCalBronco
06-09-2010, 11:57 PM
Where are the a-holes that say I jinxed the Blackhawks earlier in the thread?:approve:


On a side note, did anyone see Jeremy Roenick crying in the postgame on NBC? What an attention whore that guy is. "I didn't win a cup, wah wah wah!"

I don't like Roenick, but I don't think he was trying to be an attention whore. I think it was a genuine outpouring of emotion. He did play (and star) for Chicago for a long time.

24champ
06-10-2010, 12:16 AM
I don't like Roenick, but I don't think he was trying to be an attention whore. I think it was a genuine outpouring of emotion. He did play (and star) for Chicago for a long time.

Given Roenick's history, he always wants attention and ALWAYS has to make it about himself. Even Milbury chimed in, "well, I didn't get to win the cup either, but I'm not going to cry about it."

From HFboards...


http://i49.tinypic.com/6rmupx.jpg

chadta
06-10-2010, 04:32 AM
Where are the a-holes that say I jinxed the Blackhawks earlier in the thread?:approve:

even a blind squirrel occasionally gets a nut champ

Baba Booey
06-15-2010, 10:44 PM
Someone on HFBoards is trying to tell everyone that Lundqvist is better than Brodeur and it's "not even close".

Jesus fly-fishing Christ.

Killericon
06-25-2010, 12:59 AM
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broncocalijohn
06-25-2010, 11:57 AM
As a ducks fan, awesome commercial and well done. Bobby Ryan speech impediment or bad actor?

SoCalBronco
06-25-2010, 10:53 PM
Pens acquire rights to Dan Hamhuis from the Flyers for a 2011 3rd after the Flyers recently acquired his rights from NSH. Dunno if Ray can get a deal done before the 1st.

Looks like Sarge is leaving. I wish all the best to him. He was extremely, extremely important in our back to back finals appearances and title. An outstanding QB for the PP. Sarge is a real warrior. His skills are starting to erode, especially in his own end, but he can definitely still play. I very concerned about our PP without Sarge.

The Penguins drafted winger Beau Bennett at 25. Hopefully his frame can fill out the next few years playing for DU. He's got a great skillset.

Hercules Rockefeller
06-27-2010, 03:07 PM
At least according to Bob McKenzie, Hamhuis intends to test the market. Can't believe Philly traded for him and didn't even go to his agent with a contract offer, or that the Pens turned around and gave up value for the guy too.

Nabakov wants to test the market too, even after the Sharks conditional trade with the Flyers.

24champ
06-27-2010, 11:56 PM
Can't wait for Thursday, hope to God that the Kings will sign one of the top 5 players in the NHL.

http://viewfrommyseats.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/ilya-kovalchuk.jpg

Killericon
06-28-2010, 12:16 AM
Can't wait for Thursday, hope to God that the Kings will sign one of the top 5 players in the NHL.

http://viewfrommyseats.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/ilya-kovalchuk.jpg

Crosby, Malkin, Lidstrom, Miller, Datsyuk, Ovechkin...I could go on.

I'll give you top 5 scorers.

24champ
06-28-2010, 12:40 AM
Crosby, Malkin, Lidstrom, Miller, Datsyuk, Ovechkin...I could go on.


What are you guys smokin up there in Canada?

Pendejo
06-28-2010, 01:00 AM
Can't wait for Thursday, hope to God that the Kings will sign one of the top 5 players in the NHL.

http://viewfrommyseats.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/ilya-kovalchuk.jpg

It will be interesting to see whether or not the L.A. Pussy Bitches sign Kovy. It's a perfect match so it most likely won't happen. He won't put them over the hump anyway.

Killericon
06-28-2010, 10:49 AM
What are you guys smokin up there in Canada?

Chara, Richards...Maybe even Luongo, Thornton, Pronger and Doughty.

Like I said, he's certainly among the 5 best scorers in the NHL, but not the top 5 players.

gyldenlove
06-28-2010, 10:53 AM
Chara, Richards...Maybe even Luongo, Thornton, Pronger and Doughty.

Like I said, he's certainly among the 5 best scorers in the NHL, but not the top 5 players.

There is a pretty long list of players I would have over Kovy, but to my knowledge only 2 play in Canada (Sedin and Iginla).

Killericon
06-28-2010, 03:58 PM
There is a pretty long list of players I would have over Kovy, but to my knowledge only 2 play in Canada (Sedin and Iginla).

Umm...Okay?

EDIT:

If you're looking at current value, rather than long term value, I'd take Kipper over Kovy in a heartbeat.

24champ
06-28-2010, 04:24 PM
Chara, Richards...Maybe even Luongo, Thornton, Pronger and Doughty.

Like I said, he's certainly among the 5 best scorers in the NHL, but not the top 5 players.

He's not a great defensive player, grant you that. However most goal scoring players aren't notable defenders either.

My overall ranking.

1. Ovie
2. Crosby
3. Kovie
4. Miller
5. Malkin

Lidstrom is at 6.

40-50 goal scorers in this league are very rare, and come around every so often. Kovalchuk can also notch 40-50 assists in a season, so he isn't JUST a goal scorer. He gets a lot of crap for his TEAMS playoff performances, and the knock on him is that he doesn't care. Well he does, otherwise New Jersey wouldn't be trying to keep him.


Lou Lamoriello:
"I've been pleased with him from day one. We knew there would be adjustments. The thing I've been most pleased with is he's been a great teammate and quality individual. The interaction, he's fit right in with the group. Those are always things that are unknowns until you have a player. The bottom line is winning. We don't want anything to get in the way of that."


Jacques Lemaire:
"He works hard, he wants to win, and maybe that's why I think maybe he's a better player than I thought he was. He wants to win so much. He enjoys the game, which I didn't see that as much as when he wasn't around," the veteran coach and Hall of Fame player said. "He's a real player. He's a guy that he wants to improve. He wants to do well. He wants the team to win. He's not selfish; those things that you don't know when the guy's away. And then when they come in, sometimes you do get some surprises, could be negative or positive. This one was positive, big time."

That's two great hockey guys giving their opinions on Kovie. His character isn't in question. He's a top 5 player and I don't see how he isn't.

Baba Booey
06-28-2010, 06:46 PM
Take it from a Devils fan...Parise is a better overall player than Kovalchuk.

24champ
06-28-2010, 06:54 PM
Take it from a Devils fan...Parise is a better overall player than Kovalchuk.

When was the last time Parise notched 50 goals and 40 assists? Parise may be better defensively but still isn't close to Kovy as a player.

Hercules Rockefeller
06-28-2010, 07:04 PM
And Kovy has gone 50-40 once in his career, in 05-06. It's not like that's his average season.

24champ
06-28-2010, 07:10 PM
And Kovy has gone 50-40 once in his career, in 05-06. It's not like that's his average season.

He's been pretty consistent around that range throughout his career. Which is impressive because he didn't have any good teams to play on like Ovie, Crosby/Mallkin, Hossa etc.

Killericon
06-28-2010, 07:20 PM
He's been pretty consistent around that range throughout his career. Which is impressive because he didn't have any good teams to play on like Ovie, Crosby/Mallkin, Hossa etc.

I'm going to ignore the part where you mentioned Hossa and neglected to mention that part where he played with Ilya for a spell while in the same breath saying Ilya never had any good teams.

Just to be clear...You think Malkin isn't as good as Ilya Kovalchuk? Same goes for Datsyuk?

Okay, well, I tell you what. I'm gonna find 3 pro hockey writers who disagree with you. If you find me one who agrees with you, I'll drop the matter forever.

1 (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2009/09/21/brophy_top50_players/), 2 (http://www.torontosun.com/sports/hockey/2009/09/30/11200926-sun.html), 3 (http://penguins.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=501335).

For bonus marks, here's a guy (http://www.hockeyhermit.com/top-10-russian-hockey-players-in-the-nhl-today) who puts Kovie as the 4th best Russian in the league, nevermind overall player.

Here (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2009/12/21/brophy_column_decade/)'s one who says he isn't top 10 of the decade.

Kovalchuk has yet to prove he can do anything other than score lots of goals on teams that sucks. Do I think that might change? Sure, but the fact remains Ilya has yet to find success on the team level in the NHL. Hard to put a guy like that in the top 5 players in the league.

24champ
06-29-2010, 12:41 AM
I'm going to ignore the part where you mentioned Hossa and neglected to mention that part where he played with Ilya for a spell while in the same breath saying Ilya never had any good teams.



So let me get this straight, Hossa and Kovalchuk= good team? You need more than one or two great players in this league, to be considered a contender.

All the Ovie fans whine about how the NHL doesn't promote him enough, and instead the NHL promotes Crosby too much. Kovy doesn't get ANY publicity, zero, nada...and it is because he played the majority of his career in Atlanta. Unfortunately nobody really got a chance to see his skills...here's a sampling of what he brings.


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As you can see, he can knife through 3-4 defenders with ease. Not a lot of players can do that. He can score at will and fights for his teammates, is a leader and has great character.

Just to be clear...You think Malkin isn't as good as Ilya Kovalchuk? Same goes for Datsyuk?

I'd say it is close. Malkin has the benefit of playing with Crosby, and Datsyuk is also surrounded with a nice cast of players the Red Wings assembled. Put Kovalchuk in the same situations, and I think he would flourish just as much.


Okay, well, I tell you what. I'm gonna find 3 pro hockey writers who disagree with you. If you find me one who agrees with you, I'll drop the matter forever.


Um OK...hmm...Oh looky here, a General Manager in the NHL that agrees with me.

But the moment the decision to trade is made, Kovalchuk becomes the best midseason rental player to hit the trade market in years, certainly since the lockout -- maybe ever. I asked one Eastern Conference GM if he could think of a better player available near the deadline and he was stumped.

"No, I can't think of anybody," he said. "(Kovalchuk)'s a great player, he's in the top five or 10 players in the game. He is the face of the Atlanta team. I have no idea (what's going to happen), I hear the rumors that you hear."

Read more: http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl/article/2010-01-06/kovalchuk-atlanta-keeper-or-trade-deadline-prize#ixzz0sDieIMKp


Kovalchuk has yet to prove he can do anything other than score lots of goals on teams that sucks.

Like Ovie right? They played in the same weak division for a number of years. I guess Ovie sucks too. ::)

Sure, but the fact remains Ilya has yet to find success on the team level in the NHL. Hard to put a guy like that in the top 5 players in the league.

That's a team management problem with Atlanta, they never were able to surround Kovie with the right people. When you look at the New Jersey Devils who are still trying to resign him, says a lot. You got guys like Lou and Lemaire heaping praise on the guy for being a great teammate and for having great character. The fact Atlanta fielded sucky teams, isn't Kovies fault and I can definitely see why he turned down 10 million dollars per year from them. It's not about the money, it's about winning with Kovy.

chadta
06-29-2010, 04:23 AM
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As you can see, he can knife through 3-4 defenders with ease. Not a lot of players can do that. He can score at will and fights for his teammates, is a leader and has great character.

that was kovis playoff highlite of his career, and it ended in a stop made by the mighty brian boucher. altho he did eventually finally get his first playoff goal in what his 15th game or so, now thats what i call a clutch player.

but keep proving that hes the best.

only kovi, ovie, and cindy have more goals total in the last 3 seasons then jeff carter, so i guess by using your logic hes one of the top 5 players in the league too, altho he is actually good defensively so he must be top 3.

Killericon
06-29-2010, 10:51 AM
That's a team management problem with Atlanta, they never were able to surround Kovie with the right people. When you look at the New Jersey Devils who are still trying to resign him, says a lot. You got guys like Lou and Lemaire heaping praise on the guy for being a great teammate and for having great character. The fact Atlanta fielded sucky teams, isn't Kovies fault and I can definitely see why he turned down 10 million dollars per year from them. It's not about the money, it's about winning with Kovy.

Sure, it isn't Kovie's fault his team has sucked. I'll grant you that. I'll also grant that the Kovy-Heatly/Kovy-Hossa teams sucked. However the fact remains that he has yet to find team success in the NHL. Based on that alone, how could you pick him over guys with similar talent who have?

Furthermore, I would argue that Kovalchuk has benefitted from being the only good player on his team(to an extent). "Who should I pass to? Oh, I know, Ilya Kovalchuk."

He gets a lot more time with the puck than a guy like Zach Parise does. Kyle Calder was the Blackhawks' leading scorer one year, and he could hardly stay on the Flyers' 4th line the next. When you play on ****ty squads, your stats can get inflated.

I'm not sayng he's BAD(I love the guy), I'm just saying there's at least 5 players who are better than him in the NHL.

P.S.

Did the Capitals suck this past year? I didn't realize because I was too busy watching them win 54 games.

24champ
06-30-2010, 02:23 PM
From LeBrun's live chat:

Pierre LeBrun (4:40 PM)

Kings are on the rise, they feel this is their window to win now. They will go after Kovalchuk tomorrow _ number one forward available on market - plus go after a top-four d-man (they love Hamhuis)


:o


If the Kings pull that off... I will cream in my pants.

Requiem
06-30-2010, 02:27 PM
I'm playing NHL 99 right now.

24champ
06-30-2010, 02:32 PM
Sure, it isn't Kovie's fault his team has sucked. I'll grant you that. I'll also grant that the Kovy-Heatly/Kovy-Hossa teams sucked. However the fact remains that he has yet to find team success in the NHL. Based on that alone, how could you pick him over guys with similar talent who have?



So you admit it that he is good enough to be in the conversation with Crosby, Ovie, Malkin etc. Here is how I look at it...Kovalchuk is like the Lebron James of the NHL...played on crappy teams and his legacy isn't exactly cemented at this point. However he is still young and got time to prove the critics wrong, not going very far on poorly constructed teams does NOT mean he isn't a top 5 player.

Furthermore, I would argue that Kovalchuk has benefitted from being the only good player on his team(to an extent). "Who should I pass to? Oh, I know, Ilya Kovalchuk."

He gets a lot more time with the puck than a guy like Zach Parise does. Kyle Calder was the Blackhawks' leading scorer one year, and he could hardly stay on the Flyers' 4th line the next. When you play on ****ty squads, your stats can get inflated.

One can argue the opposite and say the players you mentioned in previous posts have it much easier with better players on their team. Less pressure, better coaches...I could go on.


I'm not sayng he's BAD(I love the guy), I'm just saying there's at least 5 players who are better than him in the NHL.

P.S.

Did the Capitals suck this past year? I didn't realize because I was too busy watching them win 54 games.

Far as the Capitals go, I didn't say they sucked, but you discredited Kovies sniper ability because he played against weak teams. If you do that then one must ask if that discredits Ovie's skills. They both played in the same division, against the same weak teams.

I love Hockey debates, who is the best GM, Coach, which player is better...I tell you a group I cannot debate with are Toronto fans. Most delusional fan base in the history of sports.:giggle:

Smiling Assassin27
06-30-2010, 02:53 PM
:o


If the Kings pull that off... I will cream in my pants.

Hey, just make sure O'Donnell's available so Kenny Holland can sign him up, mm-kay?

24champ
06-30-2010, 02:59 PM
Hey, just make sure O'Donnell's available so Kenny Holland can sign him up, mm-kay?

I think he is available tomorrow, since he is a UFA...don't know if he wants to keep on playing in a more limited role with the Kings. A great locker room guy, but has slow wheels.

Smiling Assassin27
06-30-2010, 03:15 PM
I think he is available tomorrow, since he is a UFA...don't know if he wants to keep on playing in a more limited role with the Kings. A great locker room guy, but has slow wheels.

Yeah, he'd make a suitable replacement for Lilja, who's gonna test the market as well. He's a solid stay at home guy with some physical presence that can scrap if necessary. A solid 5th or 6th D-man is about all Detroit can afford and this guy would fit into the locker room well. If we could pick him up at around 1.7 mil (or less, if possible), he'd be a solid pick up, IMO.

Killericon
06-30-2010, 08:38 PM
:o


If the Kings pull that off... I will cream in my pants.

Hamhuis' the next Wade Redden. I think the Kings are gonna make a big splash, I just hope, for their sake, it's not Dan Hamhuis.

So you admit it that he is good enough to be in the conversation with Crosby, Ovie, Malkin etc. Here is how I look at it...Kovalchuk is like the Lebron James of the NHL...played on crappy teams and his legacy isn't exactly cemented at this point. However he is still young and got time to prove the critics wrong, not going very far on poorly constructed teams does NOT mean he isn't a top 5 player.

Agreed about Toronto fans. And about Hockey Arguments. I wish more debating on the OM was like this(The kind where I'm in the right ;) ).

Kovalchuk is in the 2nd tier of the NHL. The first tier consists solely, IMO, of Crosby, Ovechkin and Malkin. Second tier has players like Kovie, Datsyuk, Miller, Pronger, Chara...Maybe Keith, the Sedins, Toews and Doughty. So, right away, Kovie's competing for two spots against players like that. Kovie has put up great numbers and never won and is not very good defensively. Pronger's won it all and is awesome on both ends, just like Datsyuk. I'll pick those two over Kovie, and probably a few other players, too.

Probably top 2 or 3 offensive players, but not overall.

Also, forgive me, but Ovechkin is definitely the LeBron of the NHL.

Smiling Assassin27
07-01-2010, 09:41 AM
From TSN:

Veteran defenceman Sergei Gonchar has signed a three-year contract with the Ottawa Senators worth $5.5 million per year.

The contract also includes a no-trade clause.

Sens GM Bryan Murray had been said to be looking for a puck-moving blueliner and he did so in acquiring the Russian powerplay quarterback.

Gonchar had 11 goals and 39 assists for the Pens last season.

The 36-year-old Russian is known for excelling on the power play but has struggled with injury the last few seasons.

Gonchar was drafted 14th overall by the Washington Capitals in the first round of the 1992 NHL Entry Draft.

Details to follow.

Smiling Assassin27
07-01-2010, 09:44 AM
Versteeg to Toronto:

TORONTO -- The Chicago Blackhawks unloaded another key player from their Stanley Cup-winning roster Wednesday night, sending right-winger Kris Versteeg to Toronto in a five-player deal.

The Maple Leafs also acquired the rights to left-winger Bill Sweatt in exchange for forwards Viktor Stalberg, Christopher DiDomenico and Philippe Paradis.

The trade came just hours before the start of the NHL's free agency period. It helps Chicago in its effort to get under the US$59.4-million salary cap for next season, while the Leafs get a much-needed offensive boost without giving up a key player from their roster.

Versteeg, 24, recorded 44 points (20 goals 24 assists) in 79 regular-season games for the Blackhawks. He added 14 points (six goals eight assists) in 22 post-season games.

The deal came a week after Chicago shipped playoff star Dustin Byfuglien to Atlanta along with Brent Sopel and Ben Eager. The Blackhawks also recently shipped Colin Fraser to Edmonton.

Led by Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane, the Blackhawks beat Philadelphia for their first Stanley Cup title since 1961. Chicago had one of the deepest rosters in the league last season but changes were expected this off-season due to cap issues.

"I've been trying to warn our fans that this team that we've fallen in love with isn't going to stay the same," general manager Stan Bowman said on a conference call. "But no championship team does. It's kind of the nature of the world that we're in.

"We're doing the best we can to keep our core together."

Smiling Assassin27
07-01-2010, 09:48 AM
Tanguay signs with Flames for 1.7 mil...Crap, I'd rather have this guy at 1.7 than Hudler at his 2 mil salary.

Baba Booey
07-01-2010, 09:50 AM
Apparently Paul Martin isn't going to resign with us. Suck me sideways.

And apparently he's going to sign with Pittsburgh.

God damn you SoCal.

24champ
07-01-2010, 09:50 AM
We'll see if Kovy signs with LA.

24champ
07-01-2010, 09:51 AM
Apparently Paul Martin isn't going to resign with us. Suck me sideways.

Going to Pittsburgh it looks like...

Smiling Assassin27
07-01-2010, 10:14 AM
Sucks for the Yotes to lose this guy.

Defenceman Zbynek Michalek has signed a five-year, $20 million contract with the Pittsburgh Penguins.

The 27-year-old native of the Czech Republic had three goals and 14 assists for the Coyotes last season.

The 6'2, 210 pound blueliner helped the Coyotes to a successful venture into the post-season in 2009-10.

Smiling Assassin27
07-01-2010, 10:42 AM
Flippin' O'Donnell to the Flyers.

gyldenlove
07-01-2010, 10:50 AM
The Colby Armstrong deal makes Jiri Hudlers contract look really nice.

Smiling Assassin27
07-01-2010, 10:59 AM
The Colby Armstrong deal makes Jiri Hudlers contract look really nice.

Well, if there's one thing we can count on from Toronto, it's that they'll over-pay anyone.

Smiling Assassin27
07-01-2010, 11:00 AM
O'Donnell got a base of 1M per year plus incentives. He'd have been a decent fit in Detroit at that price.

Smiling Assassin27
07-01-2010, 11:01 AM
Derek Morris re-signs with Yotes at 4 yrs/11M...

Nice deal for both parties, IMO.

Hercules Rockefeller
07-01-2010, 11:48 AM
Nice signings by the Pens, would have loved for the Caps to get either.

Going to be very unhappy if they don't pull Volchenkov now that those two are off the market. I'm guessing McPher will try to tweak the roster claiming they don't need much and citing the President's Trophy as the reason. That couldn't be further from the truth, they need another Top-4 DMan.

gyldenlove
07-01-2010, 11:54 AM
Nice signings by the Pens, would have loved for the Caps to get either.

Going to be very unhappy if they don't pull Volchenkov now that those two are off the market. I'm guessing McPher will try to tweak the roster claiming they don't need much and citing the President's Trophy as the reason. That couldn't be further from the truth, they need another Top-4 DMan.

The Pens power play is going to suffer for this, neither Martin nor Michalek can replace Gonchar on point and he was very vital to that unit.

Right now I would say the Pens may be missing a true number 1 back but with Martin, Letang, Goligoski, Orpik and Michalek they have nice depth.

broncocalijohn
07-01-2010, 11:58 AM
We'll see if Kovy signs with LA.

He did wonders in Washington for team chemistry so i hope he continues the effort. Right when the Kings turned the corner and are ready to make a serious run......

Smiling Assassin27
07-01-2010, 01:52 PM
Jokinen to the Flames--2 years at 3mil per year

Andrew Ladd shipped to Thrashers to be with buddy Byfuglien...

Hogan11
07-01-2010, 02:39 PM
Nice to see the Flyers solidiying the defense, but I can't for the life of me understand why they wasted money on the likes of Jody Shelly (who clearly isn't needed) when the RW needs to be addressed?

That's the headscratcher of the day.

gyldenlove
07-01-2010, 02:57 PM
Nice to see the Flyers solidiying the defense, but I can't for the life of me understand why they wasted money on the likes of Jody Shelly (who clearly isn't needed) when the RW needs to be addressed?

That's the headscratcher of the day.

I think the Rangers giving Boogard 1.6 mill per year is the head scratcher, that is like 5000$ per minute if he plays all 82 games, his per minute pay is right up there with Ovechkin.

24champ
07-01-2010, 03:00 PM
Avs beat writer Adrian Dater...

Good source: Devils out of Kovy sweepstakes. Kings trying to hammer out final numbers, but it's not done deal

OMG.

Hogan11
07-01-2010, 03:29 PM
I think the Rangers giving Boogard 1.6 mill per year is the head scratcher, that is like 5000$ per minute if he plays all 82 games, his per minute pay is right up there with Ovechkin.

Oh I agree, the Boogar deal was pure insanity.

I was just generally asking as a Flyer fan...I expect Philly or Chadta will be able to give me an answer on it eventually

Baba Booey
07-01-2010, 09:25 PM
Avs beat writer Adrian Dater...



OMG.

And Pierre Lebrun said he spoke with Lombardi and said he's not close to getting a deal done.

Point is, you can't trust anything until it's a done deal.

SoCalBronco
07-01-2010, 09:32 PM
Apparently Paul Martin isn't going to resign with us. Suck me sideways.

And apparently he's going to sign with Pittsburgh.

God damn you SoCal.

Boom.

;D

Shero made it pretty clear the last week or so in various articles that he was willing to basically use scrubs at wing for the forseeable future in order to strengthen the defense. The defense sure got along stronger today with Martin and also Michalek, but gyldenlove is correct that our PP will take a huge hit with Sarge going to Ottawa. He was VERY underrated here. Without him in the lineup, we were a very mediocre team. They're going to have to find a PP for the QB. Hopefully Tanger or GoGo can do it...doubt it. I wish Sarge all the best. He was a great, great Penguin.

I'm happy we solidified the D...it was pretty soft last year after they lost Scuderi and Gill. IMO, the Penguins have the 2nd best defense corps in the East now (behind only Philadelphia). We'll see if they can get away with playing with garbage at wing for another year...cause Shero is basically right up against the cap now...maybe 1m-2m under it.

I think our defense pairings will look like this:

Orpik-Martin
Letang-Michalek
Goligoski-Lovejoy (or maybe Eaton if they can squeeze him under the cap)


McNeckbeard, you guys signed Volchenkov today...that was a great signing for you guys. He's a monster in his own end. I'm sure he'll do a great job for NJ.

Killericon
07-01-2010, 09:43 PM
Daryl Sutter has lost his mind.

Furthermore, I'm happy with the Hawks' signings so far. I'm stealing this from a tweet, but it cracked me up:

The real question is if the Thrashers can recover from their Stanley Cup hangover?

24champ
07-01-2010, 09:55 PM
Boom.

;D

Shero made it pretty clear the last week or so in various articles that he was willing to basically use scrubs at wing for the forseeable future in order to strengthen the defense. The defense sure got along stronger today with Martin and also Michalek, but gyldenlove is correct that our PP will take a huge hit with Sarge going to Ottawa. He was VERY underrated here. Without him in the lineup, we were a very mediocre team. They're going to have to find a PP for the QB. Hopefully Tanger or GoGo can do it...doubt it. I wish Sarge all the best. He was a great, great Penguin.

I'm happy we solidified the D...it was pretty soft last year after they lost Scuderi and Gill. IMO, the Penguins have the 2nd best defense corps in the East now (behind only Philadelphia). We'll see if they can get away with playing with garbage at wing for another year...cause Shero is basically right up against the cap now...maybe 1m-2m under it.

I think our defense pairings will look like this:

Orpik-Martin
Letang-Michalek
Goligoski-Lovejoy (or maybe Eaton if they can squeeze him under the cap)


McNeckbeard, you guys signed Volchenkov today...that was a great signing for you guys. He's a monster in his own end. I'm sure he'll do a great job for NJ.

I heard Pittsburgh is looking to sign Frolov too...but I am not sure if that can work with your recent signings. What's your team cap number at now?

Baba Booey
07-01-2010, 10:06 PM
Boom.

;D

Shero made it pretty clear the last week or so in various articles that he was willing to basically use scrubs at wing for the forseeable future in order to strengthen the defense. The defense sure got along stronger today with Martin and also Michalek, but gyldenlove is correct that our PP will take a huge hit with Sarge going to Ottawa. He was VERY underrated here. Without him in the lineup, we were a very mediocre team. They're going to have to find a PP for the QB. Hopefully Tanger or GoGo can do it...doubt it. I wish Sarge all the best. He was a great, great Penguin.

I'm happy we solidified the D...it was pretty soft last year after they lost Scuderi and Gill. IMO, the Penguins have the 2nd best defense corps in the East now (behind only Philadelphia). We'll see if they can get away with playing with garbage at wing for another year...cause Shero is basically right up against the cap now...maybe 1m-2m under it.

I think our defense pairings will look like this:

Orpik-Martin
Letang-Michalek
Goligoski-Lovejoy (or maybe Eaton if they can squeeze him under the cap)


McNeckbeard, you guys signed Volchenkov today...that was a great signing for you guys. He's a monster in his own end. I'm sure he'll do a great job for NJ.

Yeah, I'm happy with the Volchenkov signing. The guy draws wood from inflicting pain. Tallinder is a pretty solid #3, too.

Also...MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSE!!!!!!

You'll love Martin. He's smart and safe with the puck, a good skater, and can obviously contribute from the back end. Wouldn't shock me to see him put up 40+ points on the reg for you guys. My only complaint is that he's soft, which is why I'm pleased with the Volchenkov signing.

24champ
07-01-2010, 10:09 PM
Yeah, I'm happy with the Volchenkov signing. The guy draws wood from inflicting pain. Tallinder is a pretty solid #3, too.

Also...MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSE!!!!!!

You'll love Martin. He's smart and safe with the puck, a good skater, and can obviously contribute from the back end. Wouldn't shock me to see him put up 40+ points on the reg for you guys. My only complaint is that he's soft, which is why I'm pleased with the Volchenkov signing.

There's been rumors that Lou is still after Kovy...how in the world does that work? After all the signings you guys had.

SoCalBronco
07-01-2010, 10:26 PM
I heard Pittsburgh is looking to sign Frolov too...but I am not sure if that can work with your recent signings. What's your team cap number at now?

Yeah I saw that Eklund had that at e4 yesterday, but there's no room for it at this point, unless Dupuis is traded. PIT probably has somewhere around 2m left at this point.

24champ
07-01-2010, 10:32 PM
Yeah I saw that Eklund had that at e4 yesterday, but there's no room for it at this point, unless Dupuis is traded. PIT probably has somewhere around 2m left at this point.

Go for Patrick O'Sullivan then, bit of a headcase...but would be a great secondary scoring option on your team.

Far as the Kovy situation, the people that work in the Kings management are under gag order tonight and they all went home a while ago. I suspect a deal will be hammered out tomorrow. Hopefully.

Baba Booey
07-01-2010, 10:33 PM
There's been rumors that Lou is still after Kovy...how in the world does that work? After all the signings you guys had.

Lou said that if a deal can be reached, he would make room.

Aka he would get rid of one or more of Rolston, Langenbrunner, White, or Salvador.

You're allowed to be 10% over the cap during the offseason, so by that logic we have around $11 million in cap space.

24champ
07-01-2010, 10:40 PM
Lou said that if a deal can be reached, he would make room.

Aka he would get rid of one or more of Rolston, Langenbrunner, White, or Salvador.

You're allowed to be 10% over the cap during the offseason, so by that logic we have around $11 million in cap space.

Interesting. The Rag fans were saying the same thing today. Obviously, I hope you can't move anyone and are screwed in the Kovy race. ;D

Baba Booey
07-01-2010, 10:55 PM
I'm not expecting us to get him, I just hope he doesn't sign with the ****ing Rangers.

SoCalBronco
07-01-2010, 10:58 PM
I'm not expecting us to get him, I just hope he doesn't sign with the ****ing Rangers.

Have I introduced you to Ray Finkle, yet?

I think you guys will hit it off. :)

24champ
07-01-2010, 11:04 PM
I'm not expecting us to get him, I just hope he doesn't sign with the ****ing Rangers.


I saw a thread on HF, on Kovy destinations and Rangers fans and Devils fans were trashing each others city on that thread. Pretty funny thread.

Baba Booey
07-01-2010, 11:11 PM
I saw a thread on HF, on Kovy destinations and Rangers fans and Devils fans were trashing each others city on that thread. Pretty funny thread.

Yeah. The one dude "HockeyGuy" in that thread is a real winner. Trashes the Devils whenever he gets the chance. According to him, the Devils are going down the tube in five years and the Rangers will be a dynasty.

chadta
07-02-2010, 05:30 AM
Oh I agree, the Boogar deal was pure insanity.

I was just generally asking as a Flyer fan...I expect Philly or Chadta will be able to give me an answer on it eventually

i dunno man, im stll trying to catch up to all of it

i was at cedar point yesterday, come home to find out we got a couple of good Dmen, jody friggin shelly, and resigned leighton for 1.5 per for a 2 year deal.

WTF

i love that we took a 3rd from pissburg for hamhuis only to see him sign in vancouver. ROFL!

Hogan11
07-02-2010, 12:31 PM
i dunno man, im stll trying to catch up to all of it

i was at cedar point yesterday, come home to find out we got a couple of good Dmen, jody friggin shelly, and resigned leighton for 1.5 per for a 2 year deal.

WTF

i love that we took a 3rd from pissburg for hamhuis only to see him sign in vancouver. ROFL!

I'm a little aprehensive about the Leighton deal as well.

SoCalBronco
07-02-2010, 10:11 PM
I'm a little aprehensive about the Leighton deal as well.

I read that you guys are trying to move Gagne. I assume its for financial reasons. Thoughts?

24champ
07-03-2010, 01:07 AM
I read that you guys are trying to move Gagne. I assume its for financial reasons. Thoughts?

The way I hear it, Dean Lombardi has several options going for him...

Either sign Kovy to a deal that fits for the Kings to extend the contracts of Doughty and others young players that are due soon.

Or the Kings will probably deal for Gagne...I know the Flyers are in need of a young Goalie, so they can have Quick and throw us some picks our way with Gagne. Apparently the Kings are intent on becoming the Flyers west.

Ray Finkle
07-03-2010, 06:24 AM
I read that you guys are trying to move Gagne. I assume its for financial reasons. Thoughts?

that and he is now like Lindros, you sneeze at him and he is out with a concussion.

chadta
07-03-2010, 07:42 AM
that and he is now like Lindros, you sneeze at him and he is out with a concussion.

not even close

hes in the last year of a deal, no way he stays after this year anyhow, so get something for him while you can, and free some salary, i dont think this is a pure salary dump.

Ray Finkle
07-03-2010, 10:06 AM
not even close

hes in the last year of a deal, no way he stays after this year anyhow, so get something for him while you can, and free some salary, i dont think this is a pure salary dump.

He is a career ending hit away....

SoCalBronco
07-03-2010, 10:11 AM
If we can sign Afinogenov for like 1.5m, we'll be in good shape since Shero said they are probably going to move either Staal or Malkin to wing (most likely Staal) and plug in Letestu at third line center, a role he performed quite well against MTL when Staal was hurt. He's kind of a poor man's Jordan Staal. He's very responsible.

Kunitz-Crosby-Afinogenov
Tangradi-Malkin-Staal
Talbot-Letestu-Dupuis
Rupp-Cooke-Kennedy

Martin-Michalek
Orpik-Letang
Goligoski-Lovejoy

Hogan11
07-03-2010, 04:31 PM
not even close

hes in the last year of a deal, no way he stays after this year anyhow, so get something for him while you can, and free some salary, i dont think this is a pure salary dump.

This

Even the commentators were saying this during the Finals if I'm not mistaken.

gyldenlove
07-03-2010, 04:57 PM
If we can sign Afinogenov for like 1.5m, we'll be in good shape since Shero said they are probably going to move either Staal or Malkin to wing (most likely Staal) and plug in Letestu at third line center, a role he performed quite well against MTL when Staal was hurt. He's kind of a poor man's Jordan Staal. He's very responsible.

Kunitz-Crosby-Afinogenov
Tangradi-Malkin-Staal
Talbot-Letestu-Dupuis
Rupp-Cooke-Kennedy

Martin-Michalek
Orpik-Letang
Goligoski-Lovejoy

That lineup has trade deadline deal written all over it, it seems optimistic to expect Tangradi to move straight on on the 2nd line and by years end I would be surprised to see Staal play off center.

Hercules Rockefeller
07-04-2010, 04:07 PM
Kings have pulled out of the Ilya sweepstakes.

SoCalBronco
07-04-2010, 04:54 PM
Kings have pulled out of the Ilya sweepstakes.

Down to NJ, NYI and Russia, I guess.

24...thoughts?

Ray Finkle
07-04-2010, 08:09 PM
Down to NJ, NYI and Russia, I guess.

24...thoughts?

NYR....always have big Russian ties.....I wouldn't be surprised to see the Wings jump in either.

Killericon
07-04-2010, 09:35 PM
Kings have pulled out of the Ilya sweepstakes.

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I bet the Blues come out of nowhere and get him.

24champ
07-05-2010, 10:50 AM
Down to NJ, NYI and Russia, I guess.

24...thoughts?

Here's the latest...
Well, it should be very interesting to see what happens today. If Ilya Kovalchuk really is out for $100 million, and nothing less, there’s one team (hi, Islanders) known to be potentially able/willing to give it to him, so it should be a relatively easy deal to complete. If Dean Lombardi is really out of the chase, he should have no problem coming out publicly and saying he has cut off all communication with the Kovalchuk camp. Anything less, by either side, is pure posturing. And that’s not a knock, because posturing is what these high-stakes deals are all about. It’s how people protect their respective interests. But the reason I told you the specific questions I put to Lombardi yesterday, and the reason I tell you he has so far chosen not to answer them, is that nobody should believe any team is “out” until the second K in the name “Kovalchuk” is signed on a contract with another team. Everyone, in this case, is doing their job, and unfortunately for us, that job doesn’t include making things easy/clear for fans and media. So what will it be? Will Kovalchuk go get his $100 million? Will someone blink? We’re in Day 5 of this saga, but my guess would be that there aren’t many hours remaining. We’ll see.



Then there is this mid morning update from Hammond.



As has been noted, Jay Grossman, Kovalchuk’s agent, has “tweeted” that Kovalchuk is looking to make his decision today. A quick text from Dean Lombardi just encouraged me to “take the day off.” Well, thanks. It’s a nice thought, anyway. Common sense dictates that if Kovalchuk really is making his decision today, it would seem pretty unlikely that he would return to the offer from the Kings, the same one he rejected within the past couple days.

Incidentally, something I neglected to mention in the previous post is that according to a team source, the Kings no longer consider themselves in the market for Philadelphia’s Simon Gagne. So everything is right…back…to…square one.

http://lakingsinsider.com/

Ball is in Kovi's court, basically. Kings can only offer so much, given the fact we need to extend the contracts of our youngsters. He's not going to get anywhere near a 100 million dollar contract from the Kings, especially when you have similar players in the NHL making quite a bit less. If that's what he is looking for, he can join the crappy Islanders or go to KHL for all I care. Doughty will be extended soon and so will Jack Johnson. Bernier is a year or so away from the same situation.

I know there's rumors circulating about Gagne (which the Kings rightfully won't trade for), who I don't want at any cost. He's not that great and comes at a 5 million cap hit with 1 year left. Injury prone, and hasn't had a 40 goal season in 4-5 years. No thanks, and frankly I am sick of picking up the Flyers crap. We got enough overpaid vets on the team as it is. I'd rather keep rolling forward with some young players in our system than get a downtrodden and overpaid Gagne.

SoCalBronco
07-05-2010, 11:00 AM
NY Post claims: Kovalchuk back to NJ. 7 years/60m (8.57 per year).

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/nhlblog/kovalchuk_expected_to_sign_with_6bXr165ziolHuq8eWQ QKLO

24champ
07-05-2010, 11:17 AM
NY Post claims: Kovalchuk back to NJ. 7 years/60m (8.57 per year).

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/nhlblog/kovalchuk_expected_to_sign_with_6bXr165ziolHuq8eWQ QKLO

***ing NY Post changed their headline there. There's no deal as of now.

SoCalBronco
07-05-2010, 11:39 AM
Hey McNeckbeard....if you need to free up some cap space for Kovy's alleged 8.57 million salary, we'd be glad to send Pascal Dupuis your way in exchange for Travis Zajac.

You can thank me later.

:)

chadta
07-05-2010, 12:37 PM
I know there's rumors circulating about Gagne (which the Kings rightfully won't trade for), who I don't want at any cost. He's not that great and comes at a 5 million cap hit with 1 year left. Injury prone, and hasn't had a 40 goal season in 4-5 years. No thanks, and frankly I am sick of picking up the Flyers crap. We got enough overpaid vets on the team as it is. I'd rather keep rolling forward with some young players in our system than get a downtrodden and overpaid Gagne.

while your kinda on the right track, gagne got 34 goals last year, and walking in the door would be the kings best left winger, so how you can rag on the guy i dont know, he played half the playoffs with a broken foot, and scored 3 clutch goals in the bruins series. how many kings have 3 goals in the playoffs in the last 10 years?

as for taking flyers crap, every team needs a farm team, ours just happens to be in the nhl, thanks.

24champ
07-05-2010, 01:07 PM
while your kinda on the right track, gagne got 34 goals last year, and walking in the door would be the kings best left winger, so how you can rag on the guy i dont know, he played half the playoffs with a broken foot, and scored 3 clutch goals in the bruins series. how many kings have 3 goals in the playoffs in the last 10 years?

as for taking flyers crap, every team needs a farm team, ours just happens to be in the nhl, thanks.

We got more than enough Flyer rejects in the organization, and overpaid veteran players on the team. I'm done with that ****. Don't want Gagne at any cost.

SoCalBronco
07-05-2010, 01:35 PM
I guess the KHL club in St. Petersburg has offered him 9m a year tax free for four years (36m total) according to an article I just read and that he countered with 40m.

Ray Finkle
07-05-2010, 01:38 PM
Let him go....Kovy is not a special player. He scores goals but never lifts his team to any level....

SoCalBronco
07-05-2010, 01:41 PM
Let him go....Kovy is not a special player. He scores goals but never lifts his team to any level....

I would definitely agree that he's not worth 8-9m per year long term. He is a great goalscorer, but that's a really big cap burden for a one dimensional player. That proposed 60m/7 yr deal the Devils offered him would probably cripple them down the road. They'll resign Parise for sure...they have to he's the franchise, but it would make it harder to give them any kind of real supporting cast...they would have to get rid of Zajac and other important pieces eventually.

Hercules Rockefeller
07-05-2010, 01:41 PM
Isles have never made an offer.

SoCalBronco
07-05-2010, 01:45 PM
Herc, what are your thoughts on the Caps relative inactivity this offseason?

Are they just making sure they have enough room to give Carlson and a couple other homegrown talents long term deals or did they decide they will just end up keeping Semin long term, warts and all?

Jens1893
07-05-2010, 02:07 PM
I guess the KHL club in St. Petersburg has offered him 9m a year tax free for four years (36m total) according to an article I just read and that he countered with 40m.

A 10% income tax must be nice for the players and teams.

Ray Finkle
07-05-2010, 02:45 PM
Herc, what are your thoughts on the Caps relative inactivity this offseason?

Are they just making sure they have enough room to give Carlson and a couple other homegrown talents long term deals or did they decide they will just end up keeping Semin long term, warts and all?

Caps are tight against the Cap (:D)....they have a few guys coming up that are going to start to eat the remaining room. The really need a shut down D, 2nd line pivot, and a veteran goalie....

I really didn't see anything available that was worth it Lombardi or Hambuis would have helped though.

Ray Finkle
07-05-2010, 02:48 PM
I would definitely agree that he's not worth 8-9m per year long term. He is a great goalscorer, but that's a really big cap burden for a one dimensional player. That proposed 60m/7 yr deal the Devils offered him would probably cripple them down the road. They'll resign Parise for sure...they have to he's the franchise, but it would make it harder to give them any kind of real supporting cast...they would have to get rid of Zajac and other important pieces eventually.

he is very 1 dimensional. In their primes Bure, Kovalev, etc were similar but they actually made their teams better. Scoring a bunch of goals for a piss poor franchise is not a good indicator. Someone has to score......

As a Ranger fan, I don't mind this signing one bit. I love watching Kovy go after Avery and forget about playing the game when they play.

gyldenlove
07-05-2010, 03:10 PM
he is very 1 dimensional. In their primes Bure, Kovalev, etc were similar but they actually made their teams better. Scoring a bunch of goals for a piss poor franchise is not a good indicator. Someone has to score......

As a Ranger fan, I don't mind this signing one bit. I love watching Kovy go after Avery and forget about playing the game when they play.

Bure was a class better than Kovalchuk, really when it comes to wingers from Europe Bure and Jagr are head and shoulders above the rest with Ovechkin needing a few more years at his present pace to close the gap. Kovalchuk is a harder working version of Kovalev, in fact the player he reminds me the most of is Heatley (what a dream team when they were together in Atlanta) - they both score tons of goals but neither one can carry a franchise or even make a team into a legit playoff contender.

I would love to have Kovalchuk at a reasonable price, but there is no way his contract should be more than Crosbys, I would say a reasonable number is the 7 mill a year Iginla makes. If you give him much more than that you are hamstringing yourself badly, that extra 1 mill a year is the difference between a decent defenseman and an entry level player.

Dendave
07-05-2010, 03:51 PM
Former Red Wing Bob Probert dead at 45

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/07/05/nhls-bob-probert-dead/?test=latestnews

24champ
07-05-2010, 03:59 PM
Let him go....Kovy is not a special player. He scores goals but never lifts his team to any level....

I disagree, I think he is. But his rumored contract demands are outrageous. I think a lot of GM's should be thanking Ray Shero and the Caps GM right now for not giving Ovie, Crosby, Malkin more than 10 percent of their teams cap room. They set the standard, and I don't see how Kovy can get 100 million over 10-12 years right now. Inside source says Kovy is looking to get Ovechkin money/contract, and that's not going to happen. Kovy will only get that at the KHL in Russia.

Ray Finkle
07-05-2010, 04:12 PM
I disagree, I think he is. But his rumored contract demands are outrageous. I think a lot of GM's should be thanking Ray Shero and the Caps GM right now for not giving Ovie, Crosby, Malkin more than 10 percent of their teams cap room. They set the standard, and I don't see how Kovy can get 100 million over 10-12 years right now. Inside source says Kovy is looking to get Ovechkin money/contract, and that's not going to happen. Kovy will only get that at the KHL in Russia.

he has been in the league, what 6 or 7 years. How many playoff victories has he led his team to? 0

It is just like the Geoff Sanderson debate my buddies used to have (not comparing them). Sanderson was a goal scoring threat for the Fighting Whalers (mainly because he was the only guy on that team that could score). Kovy is a very crafty scorer but when did he elevate anyone?

gyldenlove
07-05-2010, 04:27 PM
Former Red Wing Bob Probert dead at 45

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/07/05/nhls-bob-probert-dead/?test=latestnews

RIP to the best fighter in the league.

24champ
07-05-2010, 04:38 PM
he has been in the league, what 6 or 7 years. How many playoff victories has he led his team to? 0


Like I told KillerIcon...that's a Management problem. You cannot expect a Kovy to single handidly carry your hockey club to a playoff berth and win. Let's face it...the best players and the ones that win cups are always surrounded with a great cast.

Hercules Rockefeller
07-05-2010, 05:22 PM
Caps are tight against the Cap (:D)....they have a few guys coming up that are going to start to eat the remaining room. The really need a shut down D, 2nd line pivot, and a veteran goalie....

I really didn't see anything available that was worth it Lombardi or Hambuis would have helped though.

Depending on who and the term, they have/had the room for 1 or 2 decent signings. But they're doing what I guessed they would and saying "President's Trophy" as the reason they're not doing anything.

All those young guys haven't started to eat into their ELCs, so it's not like they're worried about those guys long-term just yet. I'm sure they'll take whatever Flash gets in arbitration, which would be a huge mistake after his 4 playoff pts in 2 seasons and being a healthy scratch in the last 2 Game 7s.

It's the 4th day of FA, and I'm almost ready think of next year's offseason when hopefully there's a new coach and a new GM. McPhee did great breaking them down and laying the foundation, but they've won 1 playoff series in the decade + that he's been GM.

I know I said earlier I was hoping for Volchenkov, but 6 yrs and a NTC is too much for a guy who contributes so little offense. A $4.25M cap hit was fantastic though, thought he'd be closer to 5 than 4.

SouthStndJunkie
07-05-2010, 06:12 PM
Former Red Wing Bob Probert dead at 45

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/07/05/nhls-bob-probert-dead/?test=latestnews

That sucks....he was always one of my favorite Red Wings.

I used to have a 'Give Blood, Fight Probie' t-shirt.

broncosteven
07-05-2010, 06:48 PM
That sucks....he was always one of my favorite Red Wings.

I used to have a 'Give Blood, Fight Probie' t-shirt.

He was fun to watch when he was with the Hawks too.

Ray Finkle
07-05-2010, 07:26 PM
Like I told KillerIcon...that's a Management problem. You cannot expect a Kovy to single handidly carry your hockey club to a playoff berth and win. Let's face it...the best players and the ones that win cups are always surrounded with a great cast.

how did he do with Hossa and Heatly? oh yeah, he managed 1 playoff series and a sweep by the Rangers.....

Good players lead their team.....

SoCalBronco
07-05-2010, 07:34 PM
He's got a point, 24.

To be playing with guys like Marian Hossa and Dany Heatley and then to get swept....by No Show Hank and the Rangers of all teams....its pretty embarassing.

Ray Finkle
07-05-2010, 07:37 PM
He's got a point, 24.

To be playing with guys like Marian Hossa and Dany Heatley and then to get swept....by No Show Hank and the Rangers of all teams....its pretty embarassing.

I am so going to kick you in the nuts when we meet....I have a narrow foot so I may use both feet.

SoCalBronco
07-05-2010, 07:41 PM
I am so going to kick you in the nuts when we meet....I have a narrow foot so I may use both feet.

You have to admit, bro......"No Show Hank" is a pretty neat nickname. I really like it.

:wiggle:

Ray Finkle
07-05-2010, 07:45 PM
You have to admit, bro......"No Show Hank" is a pretty neat nickname. I really like it.

:wiggle:

so is "gapping hole Sid".....funny because it is true... :P

24champ
07-06-2010, 12:59 AM
how did he do with Hossa and Heatly? oh yeah, he managed 1 playoff series and a sweep by the Rangers.....

Good players lead their team.....

Playing with Hossa doesn't mean squat and neither does playing with Heatley.
Duo's don't make a team either. Put a team of Crosby and Malkin together with a bunch of career AHL caliber players and the team still sucks. Doesn't mean that Crosby and Malkin couldn't lead them...just means that talent wise they just weren't good enough.

Kovy wasn't going to turn career AHLers into NHL stars overnight. First, that is too much to ask of any hockey player, secondly why the **** do you think Kovy turned down 10 million freaking dollars a year to play with the Thrashers? Why did Hossa get traded? The TEAM sucked and was poorly managed.

chadta
07-06-2010, 04:26 AM
Put a team of Crosby and Malkin together with a bunch of career AHL caliber players and the team still sucks. Doesn't mean that Crosby and Malkin couldn't lead them...just means that talent wise they just weren't good enough.

thats funny they won a cup with that duo and a bunch of ahlers.

heck when half of that dup went down with an injury the other half single handedly carried the team.

24champ
07-07-2010, 11:24 AM
thats funny they won a cup with that duo and a bunch of ahlers.

Not true. They won with a hot goaltender (important in the playoffs) that actually made them the save to win the cup and they also had a young Staal. Adding to that list, Guerin, Kunitz, Fedotenko (sp?) etc. guys that have won the cup before. It was a good mixture of vets and young guys.

24champ
07-07-2010, 11:25 AM
Kovy camp goes back to the Los Angeles Kings offer...the saga continues.:rofl:

24champ
07-16-2010, 04:53 PM
It's starting to look like the Kovy saga will end shortly, coming to terms with the LA Kings.

A radio guy here that goes by the name of "money" and has close ties with AEG brass, has stated that the Kings and Kovy camp are working out the small details of the contract, and it's pretty much finished. He also said, the numbers are 15 years at 80 million, making it a 5.3 million cap hit.

bronco militia
07-16-2010, 05:22 PM
ooof...he'll be traded at the deadline ;D

chadta
07-16-2010, 05:57 PM
A radio guy here that goes by the name of "money" and has close ties with AEG brass, has stated that the Kings and Kovy camp are working out the small details of the contract, and it's pretty much finished. He also said, the numbers are 15 years at 80 million, making it a 5.3 million cap hit.

i heard that the issue is with insurance, and they are having a tough time getting somebody to insure the deal cuz its so long.

Hercules Rockefeller
07-16-2010, 07:07 PM
It's starting to look like the Kovy saga will end shortly, coming to terms with the LA Kings.

A radio guy here that goes by the name of "money" and has close ties with AEG brass, has stated that the Kings and Kovy camp are working out the small details of the contract, and it's pretty much finished. He also said, the numbers are 15 years at 80 million, making it a 5.3 million cap hit.

Don't believe the Kings have increased the length by 2 years and dropped his cap hit by over $1M for a second. Just don't see a player of Kovy's caliber taking what's in reality a lifetime deal where he'll be making dick for the back half of the deal and still only be in his mid-30's.

Baba Booey
07-16-2010, 07:17 PM
I've heard "close", "finalizing", etc. one too many times in this whole ordeal.

Not believing **** until I see he's officially signed.

Having said that, I couldn't care less if he signs with the Devils or not. If he does, great, but if he doesn't, we'll have a ton more cap room.

Plus, we already have Parise and Elias at left wing.

24champ
07-16-2010, 07:36 PM
i heard that the issue is with insurance, and they are having a tough time getting somebody to insure the deal cuz its so long.

Could be anything really...no movement clause, and then there's something about the CBA and the looming lockout possibility and how Kovy wants to be paid during that. Lastly there's the structure of the contract, how he gets paid on an annual basis for the duration of the contract. Probably 10 million for the first 4-5 seasons and it will drop from there. Management just asked Wayne Simmonds if he would be willing to pick another number, his number is 17. That is the number Kovy has always worn...

24champ
07-16-2010, 07:45 PM
Don't believe the Kings have increased the length by 2 years and dropped his cap hit by over $1M for a second. Just don't see a player of Kovy's caliber taking what's in reality a lifetime deal where he'll be making dick for the back half of the deal and still only be in his mid-30's.

Kovalchuk and wife already visited Los Angeles, it is well known that this is where Kovalchuk wants to play, couple that with a poor market for a player of Kovy's caliber. Our General Manager is smart enough to play that to his advantage...we've already declared ourselves out of the race TWICE...and it was for a reason. Dean Lombardi is a smart guy and played it to his advantage, and will likely get a lower cap hit. Which means the Kings can resign their young guys and likely pick someone up via trade.


Also, another factor is that Kovi's wife wants to act/sing and rumor has it she will get started on that career soon. Not sure if I believe this, but supposedly already signed a contract to work with a recording company and will work with a well known producer.

Baba Booey
07-16-2010, 07:58 PM
In reality, no one really knows what Kovalchuk is thinki...

God damnit I can't string together a train of thought while gawking at Marisa Miller, 24.

Hercules Rockefeller
07-16-2010, 08:39 PM
Kovalchuk and wife already visited Los Angeles, it is well known that this is where Kovalchuk wants to play, couple that with a poor market for a player of Kovy's caliber. Our General Manager is smart enough to play that to his advantage...we've already declared ourselves out of the race TWICE...and it was for a reason. Dean Lombardi is a smart guy and played it to his advantage, and will likely get a lower cap hit. Which means the Kings can resign their young guys and likely pick someone up via trade.


Also, another factor is that Kovi's wife wants to act/sing and rumor has it she will get started on that career soon. Not sure if I believe this, but supposedly already signed a contract to work with a recording company and will work with a well known producer.

Yeah, still don't believe for a second that's the deal on the table for Kovy. He turned down a 7-year $70M offer and a 12-year $100M offer from the Thrashers, which is why he was traded midseason. Contracts with $10M and $8.5M cap hits respectively, and you now want us to believe that he's going to take a contract that's 5 years longer with $20M less guaranteed? The Kings initial offer that he rejected was more than that. So they've now increased the term, but dropped the per year average? Kovy hit the market because he wanted to get paid, and a 15-year $80M deal isn't that.

A poor market for a player of Kovy's caliber? Weren't you here before FA claiming he was a Top 5 player? You're now saying that there isn't a market 2 weeks into FA for a Top 5 player and he's going to have to settle for a contract that's $5.3M cap hit? Just because you're eating all the bull**** that out's there on the Interwebz with anything Kovy related, doesn't mean you come here and expect us to swallow yours.

24champ
07-16-2010, 11:56 PM
Yeah, still don't believe for a second that's the deal on the table for Kovy. He turned down a 7-year $70M offer and a 12-year $100M offer from the Thrashers, which is why he was traded midseason. Contracts with $10M and $8.5M cap hits respectively, and you now want us to believe that he's going to take a contract that's 5 years longer with $20M less guaranteed? The Kings initial offer that he rejected was more than that. So they've now increased the term, but dropped the per year average? Kovy hit the market because he wanted to get paid, and a 15-year $80M deal isn't that.


First of all, the reality is that Kovalchuk wasn't going to play for the Thrashers at all, regardless of what they offered. The thrashers suck and the team ownership isn't any better. He's not going to play for a team with questionable ownership and a team that might uproot and play in Canada in a couple years. So now that is out of the way, lets dissect the fact you think Kovalchuk is seeking a boatload of cash. The fact is that he hasn't taken the KHL seriously, which would have surely offered him whatever he wanted...tax free. We already know he turned down ATL's money prior to hitting the FA market. Looks like he is turning down the Devils contract as well, that would be ok money in the short term, and the chance for another contract with more money. You say there is money to be had for Kovy, but where? He's not going out to visit their cities is he? Kings publicly have said they are out of the race for Kovalchuk....TWICE. Why does Kovalchuk keep coming back to table? The longer this thing dragged out, the more it benefited the Kings.

The Kings are in the drivers seat here, the advantage goes strictly to Dean Lombardi in these negotiations. He's not going to give out a Ovie contract, not even close. The market is not there, economy is in the ****er and NHL owners have completely overspent the last few off seasons to the point they need to shed salary and now are coming out to say they want a 48 million dollar cap for the league? That hurts negotiations and makes teams think twice about handing out large contracts. That's why it has taken 2 weeks for these negotiations.

The Devils were plan B, they offered a nice contract...but my assumption is that Kovalchuk doesn't fit in with their style of play, and wouldn't be the top guy there either. Can't blame Lou Lam for getting him, wanted to make a Cup run. Now again, if Kovy signs with the the Kings, Kovy will get his 10 million per year, but he is going to have to sacrifice some years in order to make the cap hit work under Dean Lombardi's plan...the key to the whole negotiations was cap hit. We need to extend a lot of our young players next offseason.


A poor market for a player of Kovy's caliber? Weren't you here before FA claiming he was a Top 5 player? You're now saying that there isn't a market 2 weeks into FA for a Top 5 player and he's going to have to settle for a contract that's $5.3M cap hit? Just because you're eating all the bull**** that out's there on the Interwebz with anything Kovy related, doesn't mean you come here and expect us to swallow yours.

There's only been two teams in the running for Kovalchuk, Kings and the Devils (who would need to make trades after signing Kovy)...so if you want to call that a big market...have at it. Sounding like a broken record here, but Kovalchuk is going to get his 10 million per year, just going to have to sacrifice some years in order to fit into the Kings plan.

Just stating what is being reported by a guy connected with the Kings brass. We'll see what the numbers are very soon, anyway. I expect it to be below 7 million dollar cap hit.

chadta
07-17-2010, 05:06 AM
after hearing some of these kovi terms, i like the briere contract a little more, and i hate that contract, but who in the world wants a 10 12 or 15 year deal with a guy who dosent play after memorial day ?

i only hope you guys have enough cap room left for us to send you gagne when yer done

Hercules Rockefeller
07-17-2010, 10:01 AM
First of all, the reality is that Kovalchuk wasn't going to play for the Thrashers at all, regardless of what they offered. The thrashers suck and the team ownership isn't any better. He's not going to play for a team with questionable ownership and a team that might uproot and play in Canada in a couple years. So now that is out of the way, lets dissect the fact you think Kovalchuk is seeking a boatload of cash. The fact is that he hasn't taken the KHL seriously, which would have surely offered him whatever he wanted...tax free. We already know he turned down ATL's money prior to hitting the FA market. Looks like he is turning down the Devils contract as well, that would be ok money in the short term, and the chance for another contract with more money. You say there is money to be had for Kovy, but where? He's not going out to visit their cities is he? Kings publicly have said they are out of the race for Kovalchuk....TWICE. Why does Kovalchuk keep coming back to table? The longer this thing dragged out, the more it benefited the Kings.

See, you sit there and assume that because he's not visiting other teams, there's no market/money for him. That's a pretty big leap, especially with what you say later that you think he's getting a deal that will result in a cap hit of less than $7M per year. Currently half the league could absorb a contract on its own that works out to a cap hit of less than $7M per season. You could add in another couple teams who could take the hit with one or two moves, i.e. the Caps trading Semin and his $6M cap figure.

Granted you can whittle that list down further, with what room that would leave these teams to sign other players to fill out their roster, but you'd think that Top 5 player in the league would garner a lot of interest, especially if someone like "money" is saying he's just about to sign for an annual cap hit of $5.3M. Or the other more logical scenario is that he's asking for more money than that, because it's been common knowledge that Ilya wants to get paid, and has always wanted to get paid, which is why he hit the open market. That's what would limit the market, he's priced himself out of what only a few teams could afford. Now obviously teams have learned to lower cap hits by extending the deals into years that they know the player will be retired (see: Hossa). The problem is that with a 15-year, $80M contract, it's virtually impossible to structure it in such a way that for at least a good chunk of the contract, Ilya will be making a salary on par with just the cap hits of Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin, and Staal.

So, either Ilya is asking for more money than "money" thinks he's getting, hence a smaller market, or Ilya sucks. Probably the former and not the latter because that leads into the next point.

The Kings are in the drivers seat here, the advantage goes strictly to Dean Lombardi in these negotiations. He's not going to give out a Ovie contract, not even close. The market is not there, economy is in the ****er and NHL owners have completely overspent the last few off seasons to the point they need to shed salary and now are coming out to say they want a 48 million dollar cap for the league? That hurts negotiations and makes teams think twice about handing out large contracts. That's why it has taken 2 weeks for these negotiations.

Based on what? Kovy being so desperate for a contract that he'll bend over and take it from Lombardi? Now the Kings pulled out of the Kovy sweepstakes because they couldn't go higher than their initial offer, which was something along the lines of a 13-year deal that had a cap hit of around $6.3M. That would work out to a contract valued at around $82M. So the Kings couldn't go any higher than that, but Kovy wanted more than $82M guaranteed. Again, just furthers my point that the reason for the smaller market is that he's pricing himself out of what just about every team could afford.

The Devils were plan B, they offered a nice contract...but my assumption is that Kovalchuk doesn't fit in with their style of play, and wouldn't be the top guy there either. Can't blame Lou Lam for getting him, wanted to make a Cup run. Now again, if Kovy signs with the the Kings, Kovy will get his 10 million per year, but he is going to have to sacrifice some years in order to make the cap hit work under Dean Lombardi's plan...the key to the whole negotiations was cap hit. We need to extend a lot of our young players next offseason.

Why would Lou Lam even trade for him in the 1st place for a Cup run, if Lou Lam didnt think he could fit their style of play? That's just a terrible waste of assets from someone who was considered one of the best GM's in the league for a long, long time. They traded for him, and they offered him a long-term deal, but he doesn't fit their style of play? You look at it from one side, but not the other.

Kovy isn't going to get $10M per year if "money" is correct, he'd be making absolutely no money even in viable years of towards the end of contract.


Just stating what is being reported by a guy connected with the Kings brass. We'll see what the numbers are very soon, anyway. I expect it to be below 7 million dollar cap hit.

So what is it now? You keep moving the goalposts. Is it the $5.3M cap hit from someone who is so well connected like "money"? A contract that no one who follows hockey should believe is legit possibility until it's actually announced by either side. Or, is it a contact with a cap hit of under $7M for Ilya, and one that once you start getting above $6.5M becomes more realistic with ways to structure it that could make it feasible if it goes into years that no one expects him to play?

You're backing off his statement now too. You don't tout a guy as being someone who is well-connected to the Kings organization in an attempt to bolster his credibility, and then just throw out you're repeating what he's said like you're not putting any faith or creedance into it.

24champ
07-18-2010, 02:37 PM
See, you sit there and assume that because he's not visiting other teams, there's no market/money for him. That's a pretty big leap, especially with what you say later that you think he's getting a deal that will result in a cap hit of less than $7M per year. Currently half the league could absorb a contract on its own that works out to a cap hit of less than $7M per season. You could add in another couple teams who could take the hit with one or two moves, i.e. the Caps trading Semin and his $6M cap figure.

You could feasibly add in more teams, but you can't because nobody is willing to take on that kind of salary. Devils aren't making any trades, Philly can't dump Gagne and are about to place him on waivers. Savard on Boston isn't being moved. Not to mention there are teams (Colorado, Blues, Islanders etc) that can afford Kovalchuk, but aren't going to spend that kind of money since they have their own self imposed cap. The economics just aren't there, and its a buyers market right now. Kovalchuk doesn't have much leverage in this instance

The problem is that with a 15-year, $80M contract, it's virtually impossible to structure it in such a way that for at least a good chunk of the contract, Ilya will be making a salary on par with just the cap hits of Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin, and Staal.

It's not virtually impossible, he will get his 10 million, plus if a lockout happens, he will likely get paid during the lockout according reports about the said lockout.


Why would Lou Lam even trade for him in the 1st place for a Cup run, if Lou Lam didnt think he could fit their style of play? That's just a terrible waste of assets from someone who was considered one of the best GM's in the league for a long, long time. They traded for him, and they offered him a long-term deal, but he doesn't fit their style of play? You look at it from one side, but not the other.

Kovy isn't going to get $10M per year if "money" is correct, he'd be making absolutely no money even in viable years of towards the end of contract.

First of all, you will have to ask Lou Lam why he traded for him. My guess is that it isn't because Kovy sucks and Lou Lam thought he was getting a premiere player to bolster the team for a cup run in the playoffs.

Kovy will get 10 million, the contract structure will give him 10 million in base salary for a few years, and then it will obviously go down and at the end of his contract it will be 1 million or less in base salary. He'll get his 10 million, but he needs to sacrifice some years in order for it to soften the cap hit blow.


So what is it now? You keep moving the goalposts. Is it the $5.3M cap hit from someone who is so well connected like "money"? A contract that no one who follows hockey should believe is legit possibility until it's actually announced by either side. Or, is it a contact with a cap hit of under $7M for Ilya, and one that once you start getting above $6.5M becomes more realistic with ways to structure it that could make it feasible if it goes into years that no one expects him to play?

You're backing off his statement now too. You don't tout a guy as being someone who is well-connected to the Kings organization in an attempt to bolster his credibility, and then just throw out you're repeating what he's said like you're not putting any faith or creedance into it.


He is credible, and he has ties to AEG. As someone that lives in the Southern California area and follows the LA Kings on a daily basis, I think I got a pretty good feel for who the hell is credible and who isn't. It's funny watching morons outside of LA that don't follow the Kings, post info from Helene Elliot from the LA Times who doesn't have a damn clue what is going on. You know who her sources are when she reports? Hockeybuzz...you know Eklund! Money isn't Eklund, mind you and Money does talk with Luc Robitaille and Tim Lieweike on a weekly basis. So it's not like him to throw out BS for kicks and giggles, especially contract figures. I'd trust money more than Eklund and the LA Times.

Secondly I am not backing off the statement, I have been following this thing for 2 weeks and I don't buy any of the numbers being reported because they all change, seemingly by the hour. So it just simply going to wait for the final numbers of what the official contract is. I expect it to be a good cap hit for the LA Kings, who have not backed off on that it is imperative for the Kings to extend their young players.

chadta
07-18-2010, 04:39 PM
well then

if the hockey hotbed of southern california says kovi is comin, book it, cuz if california knows anything its hockey

LOL

champ you gotta stop gettin so pissed off when people dont drink from the same koolaid glass as you.

Baba Booey
07-18-2010, 05:33 PM
Drank with Brad Marchand of the Bruins last night in Boston. Cool (albeit cocky) kid.

SoCalBronco
07-18-2010, 09:23 PM
Looks like Shero is going to break up the three headed monster down the middle and move Geno to wing, with Staal moving up to center him on the 2nd line. They're going to have to find a replacement for Staal at center on the third line...probably Letestu or a veteran (Madden?). Not sure this is the greatest idea ever, but it helps to alleviate some of the winger problems and it will help increase the faceoff win percentage. I still would prefer Geno at center, though.

Tangradi apparently looked great at the camp this past weekend, as did Simon Despres. If he can keep it up in the September camp, he might have a shot to play with Sid and Kunitz. It's probably asking alot too fast, though.

Baba Booey
07-18-2010, 10:18 PM
Looks like Shero is going to break up the three headed monster down the middle and move Geno to wing, with Staal moving up to center him on the 2nd line. They're going to have to find a replacement for Staal at center on the third line...probably Letestu or a veteran (Madden?). Not sure this is the greatest idea ever, but it helps to alleviate some of the winger problems and it will help increase the faceoff win percentage. I still would prefer Geno at center, though.

Tangradi apparently looked great at the camp this past weekend, as did Simon Despres. If he can keep it up in the September camp, he might have a shot to play with Sid and Kunitz. It's probably asking alot too fast, though.

Speaking of camps, rookies, and 1-2-3 punches at center...

Devils wrapped up prospect camp this past week. Nothing groundbreaking happened. I wish they opened a scrimmage to the public like they did last year, but oh well.

The addition of Arnott (which I love) will give us a good top sox combination of him and Zajac. Arnott, although old, won't have to be the #1 center in Jersey and he already has obvious chemistry with Elias from their A line days. From what I've read/heard, the team expects rookie Jacob Josefson to be the #3 center. Urbom, Tedenby, and Henrique will have shots at the big team in camp as well.

Devils should look something like this in October, at least up front (changes more than likely coming on D):

Parise-Zajac-Langenbrunner/Zubrus
Elias-Arnott-Zubrus/Langenbrunner
Rolston-Josefson-Clarkson
Zharkov-Pelley-Leblond/Palmieri/Davis/etc

Solid

SoCalBronco
07-18-2010, 10:54 PM
Speaking of camps, rookies, and 1-2-3 punches at center...

Devils wrapped up prospect camp this past week. Nothing groundbreaking happened. I wish they opened a scrimmage to the public like they did last year, but oh well.

The addition of Arnott (which I love) will give us a good top sox combination of him and Zajac. Arnott, although old, won't have to be the #1 center in Jersey and he already has obvious chemistry with Elias from their A line days. From what I've read/heard, the team expects rookie Jacob Josefson to be the #3 center. Urbom, Tedenby, and Henrique will have shots at the big team in camp as well.

Devils should look something like this in October, at least up front (changes more than likely coming on D):

Parise-Zajac-Langenbrunner/Zubrus
Elias-Arnott-Zubrus/Langenbrunner
Rolston-Josefson-Clarkson
Zharkov-Pelley-Leblond/Palmieri/Davis/etc

Solid

The Devils, as always, have a solid team. I heard they might try to trade for Kaberle, as well. If they re-sign Kovalchuk, I wonder if Johnny Mac will try something other than the 1-2-2 trap with this team. The talent sort of dictates a more aggressive forechecking style. If they keep Kovy, there is a good deal of high end ability there. Maybe a move to an aggressive 2-1-2 system would be in order, or a Red Wings style 2-3 as a compromise, where they can have two forecheckers but make sure they're protected against an odd man rush with the third forward back.

I'm a big fan of guys like Parise and Zajac...Elias isn't the monster he was like 6 or 7 years ago, but still is almost a PPG player. If they could somehow shed the contracts of Rolston and to a lesse extent, Zubrus, I would fear them even more. This is a good offensive team and they should play a more open style of game.

New Jersey will have a fine season, but the East is a brutal conference. I'd say they are probably the fourth best team in the conference....without Kovalchuk.

24champ
07-18-2010, 11:43 PM
well then

if the hockey hotbed of southern california says kovi is comin, book it, cuz if california knows anything its hockey
.

Who said Socal is a hockey hotbed? It's not like its devoid of hockey crazed fans...there's enough of them around LA, and that's why this franchise has been around for more than a few decades. Not to mention there are kids being drafted into the NHL that are originally from Southern California. So knock on Socal all you want and I've certainly haven't claimed Southern California has a hockey hotbed. Ha!

Don't worry about Socal Chadta, just keep your eyes peeled on TSN, where they are doing a 7 part series whining and crying about how Canada can't attract another NHL franchise.

Killericon
07-19-2010, 12:00 AM
To me, the most interesting team in the NHL this year, other than a Kovakchuk infused Kings, is the Flames.

Tanguay-Jokinen-Iginla
Hagman-Stajan-Bourque
Glencross-Backlund-Kotalik
Stone-Sutter-Moss

Bouwmeester-Giordano
White-Regehr
Pardy-Staios

Kiprusoff
Karlsonn

Should be interesting to watch.

Hercules Rockefeller
07-19-2010, 09:10 AM
Kovalchuk goes back to the Devils.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/news/story?id=5392170

Rumored deal: $60M over 7 years, or a cap hit of a little over $8.5M per year.

If those figures are true, only Ovechkin, Crosby, and Malkin would have higher cap hits.

SoCalBronco
07-19-2010, 09:19 AM
Seems the Kings will have to beg Frolov to come back or trade for Gagne. The fans will probably demand that something be done, although I think they are better off refusing to go up to the 8.5m per year territory that NJ gave him.

SoCalBronco
07-19-2010, 09:32 AM
Kovalchuk goes back to the Devils.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/news/story?id=5392170

Rumored deal: $60M over 7 years, or a cap hit of a little over $8.5M per year.

If those figures are true, only Ovechkin, Crosby, and Malkin would have higher cap hits.

Someone on HF posted the Devils current cap situation....

The Devils CAP situation if he signed for 8.5M


FORWARDS
* Ilya Kovalchuk ($8.500m) / Patrik Elias ($6.000m) / Brian Rolston ($5.062m)
Jason Arnott ($4.500m) / Travis Zajac ($3.888m) / Dainius Zubrus ($3.400m)
Zach Parise ($3.125m) / Jamie Langenbrunner ($2.800m) / David Clarkson ($2.667m)
Vladimir Zharkov ($0.850m) / Rod Pelley ($0.550m) / P-L Letourneau-Leblond ($0.525m)

DEFENSEMEN
Anton Volchenkov ($4.250m) / Henrik Tallinder ($3.375m)
Colin White ($3.000m) / Bryce Salvador ($2.900m)
Andy Greene ($0.738m) / Anssi Salmela ($0.613m)

GOALTENDERS
Martin Brodeur ($5.200m) / Johan Hedberg ($1.500m)

ROSTER: 20;
CAP:$59.4m;
PAYROLL: $64.442m;
CAP ROOM: $-4.302m;
BONUSES: $0.740m

And they still need to sign a few more players.

I don't think Lou is going to be able to dump Rolston or Zubrus on someone (NYI), unless he's willing to sacrifice a 1st rounder....and he's going to have to pay Parise next summer (probably 6.5-7.5m).

Ray Finkle
07-19-2010, 09:33 AM
I'm glad he is with NJ....makes the Devils easier to beat....He is a A+++ scorer but doesn't do squat in his own zone and when Avery is on the ice, only focuses on hitting him...

SoCalBronco
07-19-2010, 09:54 AM
I'm glad he is with NJ....makes the Devils easier to beat....He is a A+++ scorer but doesn't do squat in his own zone and when Avery is on the ice, only focuses on hitting him...

What I'm reading now is that the 7/60 rumor might not be accurate...they are saying 17/100+...obviously Lou wants to reduce the yearly cap hit. At 100, it would be 5.88....someone said it was "in excess", so if its like 105, that's about 6.12...still very reasonable, but they still have a bit of a cap issue, nonetheless.

Ray Finkle
07-19-2010, 09:58 AM
What I'm reading now is that the 7/60 rumor might not be accurate...they are saying 17/100+...obviously Lou wants to reduce the yearly cap hit. At 100, it would be 5.88....someone said it was "in excess", so if its like 105, that's about 6.12...still very reasonable, but they still have a bit of a cap issue, nonetheless.

you pay for it now or later....but you still pay

Hercules Rockefeller
07-19-2010, 11:02 AM
What I'm reading now is that the 7/60 rumor might not be accurate...they are saying 17/100+...obviously Lou wants to reduce the yearly cap hit. At 100, it would be 5.88....someone said it was "in excess", so if its like 105, that's about 6.12...still very reasonable, but they still have a bit of a cap issue, nonetheless.

That ESPN article I originally linked is updated with Scott Burnside saying a source told him it's 17 years and could be worth over $150M.

24champ
07-19-2010, 11:14 AM
Seems the Kings will have to beg Frolov to come back or trade for Gagne. The fans will probably demand that something be done, although I think they are better off refusing to go up to the 8.5m per year territory that NJ gave him.

It was all about the cap hit, pretty clear that Kovalchuk didn't want to sacrifice years for softening the cap hit for the Kings.

Frolov is not going back to the Kings, unless he is backing down from his 4-5 million per year. Dean Lombardi has publicly said he isn't going to pay Frolov what he wants, and Frolov's agent is pissed and twittered that Frolov is 99.9% sure that he won't resign with the Kings. So there's that.

Secondly, Gagne is probably going to Tampa Bay. (thank god.)

Far as Kovy goes, it's a punch in the gut for sure, but I am used to it as a Kings fan. Reports are that it is 100M for 17 is great price for Kovy, front or back loaded, whatever but reports are +100M and by Burnside of ESPN could be around 150M. Looks like Herc was right.

Ray Finkle
07-19-2010, 11:14 AM
That ESPN article I originally linked is updated with Scott Burnside saying a source told him it's 17 years and could be worth over $150M.

funny, if the Rangers or Islanders did this, people would riot talking about how they circumvented the cap. Yet when Lou does it......

This may go down as the worst signing in the history of the NHL....this coming from a fan of the team that signed Scott Fraser, Karpa, Redden, Holik, Gomez....etc....

Ray Finkle
07-19-2010, 11:15 AM
It was all about the cap hit, pretty clear that Kovalchuk didn't want to sacrifice years for softening the cap hit for the Kings.

Frolov is not going back to the Kings, unless he is backing down from his 4-5 million per year. Dean Lombardi has publicly said he isn't going to pay Frolov what he wants, and Frolov's agent is pissed and twittered that Frolov is 99.9% sure that he won't resign with the Kings. So there's that.

Secondly, Gagne is probably going to Tampa Bay. (thank god.)

Far as Kovy goes, it's a punch in the gut for sure, but I am used to it as a Kings fan. Reports are that it is 100M for 17 is great price for Kovy, front or back loaded, whatever but reports are +100M and by Burnside of ESPN could be around 150M. Looks like Herc was right.

Kovy is a one trick pony, they are better saving their money and using it elsewhere....this is crazy....

24champ
07-19-2010, 11:19 AM
From DNFlyers (Flyers beat writer I believe):

Flyers source confirms Simon Gagne has indeed been traded to Tampa Bay. Waiting to hear on the return.

Ray Finkle
07-19-2010, 11:29 AM
From DNFlyers (Flyers beat writer I believe):

Flyers source confirms Simon Gagne has indeed been traded to Tampa Bay. Waiting to hear on the return.

great move for TB depending on what they gave up....

24champ
07-19-2010, 11:35 AM
Kings GM speaks...

I don't think it's any surprise that it's New Jersey. I think we were genuinely in it. As far as being used or whatever, that's the agent's job... the disappointment mostly comes from all the work that goes into it. The job is to put the best deal you can out there that works in all quarters. In the end if you just say you've got to have him and pay whatever it takes, you're gonna be wrought with pitfalls. You put your best offer out. If it don't work, it don't work. Obviously this has been a grueling process. But I certainly think what we put out there was respectable and pushed the envelope as far as meeting all those interests. If you go beyond that, you will pay someday in terms of this whole thing [keeping core].

24champ
07-19-2010, 11:38 AM
great move for TB depending on what they gave up....

I'd say so...


Scott Cullen:

Per Damian Cristodero of SP Times: It's Gagne for Matt Walker and a fourth-round pick.

SoCalBronco
07-19-2010, 11:40 AM
Kovy is a one trick pony, they are better saving their money and using it elsewhere....this is crazy....

If Herc and/or Scott Burnside are correct that its at or close to 150m then its absolutely the dumbest thing ever.

What's the benefit there? At 150 or even 140, its still an 8-8.5m cap hit so there's no cap hit savings....they would have been better off just going with the 7/60 rather than having to cut him when he's 34 and paying the smaller (but still significant) buyout sum for the remaining 10 years.

SoCalBronco
07-19-2010, 11:41 AM
I'd say so...


Scott Cullen:

Per Damian Cristodero of SP Times: It's Gagne for Matt Walker and a fourth-round pick.

Gagne for peanuts....I guess PHI really needed that space to sign a few more guys to fill out the roster.

Ray Finkle
07-19-2010, 11:41 AM
I'd say so...


Scott Cullen:

Per Damian Cristodero of SP Times: It's Gagne for Matt Walker and a fourth-round pick.

that's a damn steal then.....Gagne may only play 60 games but he's a point per game player when he is on.

Yzerman is taking a gamble on Gagne and their 1st rounder though....

Ray Finkle
07-19-2010, 11:42 AM
If Herc and/or Scott Burnside are correct that its at or close to 150m then its absolutely the dumbest thing ever.

What's the benefit there? At 150 or even 140, its still an 8-8.5m cap hit so there's no cap hit savings....they would have been better off just going with the 7/60 rather than having to cut him when he's 34 and paying the smaller (but still significant) buyout sum for the remaining 10 years.

exactly....for a franchise player (he is not) I could see something like this but this is crazy...

SoCalBronco
07-19-2010, 11:44 AM
Kings GM speaks...

Dean is prolly getting raped on LGK but he did the right thing. He deserves to be blamed for not hitting on anyone else this offseason, but it was a smart move to stay away from Kovalchuk if he was absolutely insisting on an extremely large salary.

24champ
07-19-2010, 12:05 PM
Dean is prolly getting raped on LGK but he did the right thing. He deserves to be blamed for not hitting on anyone else this offseason, but it was a smart move to stay away from Kovalchuk if he was absolutely insisting on an extremely large salary.

I'm not so sure, see the Kings have actually been in the running for Gaborik and Hossa in the past, but didn't want to pay for them. So it's not a matter of whether players don't want to play for LA, it's that Kings aren't going to overpay for players. Well...general rule is that UFA's get overpaid, because they are in an open market.

Now DL is actually in a tough spot, there is a knock on him and it's getting more apparent what that knock is. Dean can do a GREAT job rebuilding a hockey franchise. However in his GM'ing career he hasn't proven he can take a team very far. Look what DL did to San Jose, while they had a good young team...they suffered a setback because Dean wasn't willing to pay players by playing hardball on contracts. Then San Jose fired him because they weren't being successful as they should be.

Personally, I have had enough talk around this franchise about taking the next step. Results matter. Just being active does not. It is as simple as that.

24champ
07-19-2010, 12:36 PM
I don’t have the ability to look at other sites/sources right now, so I apologize if this is already out there, but the Kings’ last offer was indeed for 15 years and $80 million. It was presented Thursday, and nobody knew until today which offer/team Kovalchuk would choose.


http://lakingsinsider.com/2010/07/19/quotesinfo/#comments


Safe to say NJ blew our offer out of the water, disappointing...

SoCalBronco
07-19-2010, 03:25 PM
Well.....Burnside was completely wrong...its 102, not 150 (Cap hit of 6m) and Lou has it structured as follows:
Yr 1 6
Yr 2 6
Yrs 3-7 11.5 each
Yr 8 10.5
Yr 9 8.5
Yr 10 6.5
Yr 11 3.5
Yr 12 750k
Yrs 13-17 550k each

So basically in reality for Kovalchuk, he will be paid 98 million over 11 years (9m per year), but it will only cost the Devils 6m on paper and they wont have to worry about the cap hit when he retires because the contract was signed before he was 35. That's pretty crafty.

There's still a risk to NJ if Kovalchuk gets hurt or doesn't perform, they are screwed because he's sure as hell not going to retire anytime before the end of Year 10, but it doesn't totally kill them. They will have to give up a high pick or prospect to get Rolston off their books, though.



https://twitter.com/Russostrib/status/18946021478

24champ
07-19-2010, 03:54 PM
Question: Going forward, what is the plan now? What will you try to get done for the rest of the summer, and is there still time to get some momentum going?

LOMBARDI: “Yeah. Obviously you put a lot of work into it, and you’d like it to work, but whether it’s this type of deal or something else, if it doesn’t come to fruition, you go back to the drawing board. You can’t hang your head or anything. We gave it our best shot, there’s no doubt about it. We are, in no way, off plan. I’ve said this before, that I had projected probably doing this type of free agent after next year. That was my gut. You know how I feel about the core developing in the room, and putting that in place before you start diving into some of these other things. In the second half of last year, they showed me that they were going to hang together and deal with the pressure. So I was willing, I guess, to accelerate by going to this avenue to improve the team a year earlier, for me, and I guess push our way through this a little quicker. So for me, it doesn’t come to fruition, but we certainly aren’t off from what we’ve set out to do. Somebody else will come up. It’s got to be the right deal.

“The other thing is, it’s not like we’re a team where our best players are 35 years old or something, where our window is going to close here, so let’s go and grab this guy at all costs. We’re not in that situation at all. So if I thought our window was going to close here, because Kopitar is 35 or whatever, or, `All of these guys are getting older, so let’s take a run at it,’ then I’d be disappointed. I’m not saying we’re not disappointed, but my point is that it’s on a different level. You just regroup, and we still know what we’re trying to accomplish. That’s the only time you would really rush to push the accelerator, if Kopi is 35 years old or something. That’s not the case here. They’re not even where they could be. They’re still learning to get in shape.”

Question: But the focus changes a little, right? We’re talking about a 40- or 50-goal scorer that you were after, and there aren’t many of those out there. How does the focus change?

LOMBARDI: “We’re going to look at it, as we go through the summer, where kids like Schenn and Hickey and Clifford are, and we’re still going to look at other things. But there’s a difference between a fill player and a top player. I don’t think there’s another top guy out there right now, so you’ve got to be careful about just running out there and getting a fill that we didn’t really want. So that’s what you’ve got to guard against at this point now. We’ll continue to work through it, but I don’t see anything on the horizon. But I’ve been around long enough to know that something always comes up.”

Question: Is there a chance you could star talking to Frolov’s agent?

LOMBARDI: “I don’t know. It’s something to look into.”

http://lakingsinsider.com/2010/07/19/lombardi-quotes-part-2/

Baba Booey
07-19-2010, 04:05 PM
It's going to be roughly a $6m/year cap hit.

Oh, and bring it on, Finkle.</EMBED></EMBED>

Avery is useless.

SoCalBronco
07-19-2010, 04:06 PM
http://lakingsinsider.com/2010/07/19/lombardi-quotes-part-2/

The last line is basically admitting he's going to crawl back to Frolov as they have no other viable choice. I suspect a compromise will be had in giving him about 4.5m a year, but for only a short term.

SoCalBronco
07-19-2010, 04:11 PM
Oh, and bring it on, Finkle.</EMBED></EMBED>




http://media.nj.com/devils_main/photo/petejpg-630c592c6134170d_large.jpg

Fight. Fight. Fight.

Popcorn time. :)

Ray Finkle
07-19-2010, 04:24 PM
It's going to be roughly a $6m/year cap hit.

Oh, and bring it on, Finkle.</EMBED></EMBED>

Avery is useless.

tell that to Fatty and Kovy.....they can't stand him....

who won this series?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec_2oKWe2Gw

who won this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=033mZzIdxb8

enjoy....

24champ
07-19-2010, 07:54 PM
The last line is basically admitting he's going to crawl back to Frolov as they have no other viable choice. I suspect a compromise will be had in giving him about 4.5m a year, but for only a short term.

Frolov won't be back on the Kings, it's pretty much a mutual feeling there. The agent twittered that he is 99.9 percent sure that Frolov won't be back on the Kings. I don't see them coming to an agreement on dollars at all. Dean is simply not ruling it out, although everyone knows Frolov is asking for 4 to 5 million dollars...and that is not going to happen.

Reading between the lines, it seems that Dean is stunned by the fact Kovy bolted for New Jersey and that Lou Lam outmaneuvered Deano. I'm not happy about some things I am hearing, with regards to our ownership...and seems that this could be the beginning of the end for Dean Lombardi. The way Dean Lombardi sounded today, very much reminds me of the end of the previous regime in the Dave Taylor era.

SoCalBronco
07-19-2010, 07:59 PM
Frolov won't be back on the Kings, it's pretty much a mutual feeling there. The agent twittered that he is 99.9 percent sure that Frolov won't be back on the Kings. I don't see them coming to an agreement on dollars at all. Dean is simply not ruling it out, although everyone knows Frolov is asking for 4 to 5 million dollars...and that is not going to happen.

Reading between the lines, it seems that Dean is stunned by the fact Kovy bolted for New Jersey and that Lou Lam outmaneuvered Deano. I'm not happy about some things I am hearing, with regards to our ownership...and seems that this could be the beginning of the end for Dean Lombardi. The way Dean Lombardi sounded today, very much reminds me of the end of the previous regime in the Dave Taylor era.

I'm not sure why he's surprised that he got outmaneuvered by Lou...Lou does it all the time. In any case, I doubt Lombardi is going to be summarily dismissed in the middle of the offseason...didn't they just give him a two year extension?

The Kings will probably swing a trade for someone like Savard or maybe Sharp and all will be (relatively) well. I highly doubt AEG will overreact. After all, as much as I hate the fact that LA has this team....the fact is that he built a fine young club that was two bad periods away from the second round.

Baba Booey
07-19-2010, 08:39 PM
tell that to Fatty and Kovy.....they can't stand him....

who won this series?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec_2oKWe2Gw

who won this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=033mZzIdxb8

enjoy....

http://www.posters.ws/images/390359/martin_brodeur_nj_03_st_cup_photofile.jpg

24champ
07-19-2010, 10:32 PM
I'm not sure why he's surprised that he got outmaneuvered by Lou...Lou does it all the time. In any case, I doubt Lombardi is going to be summarily dismissed in the middle of the offseason...didn't they just give him a two year extension?

Right now there is two different stories going on, on one hand you have Lieweekly saying that cash is not a problem and its all about the cap hit. On the other hand you have Dean Lombardi saying its about the cash and the revenue coming in and not the cap hit. So two very different quotes...and that's not a good sign. It's quite obvious what happened here, and AEG did not want to fork over the cash that Kovy was looking for in the early part of his contract. Dean sounded very defeated, and not the cocky GM I've come to know...something changed.

This cluster**** of a negotiation with Kovalchuk has Lieweekly's fingerprints all over it.


The Kings will probably swing a trade for someone like Savard or maybe Sharp and all will be (relatively) well. I highly doubt AEG will overreact. After all, as much as I hate the fact that LA has this team....the fact is that he built a fine young club that was two bad periods away from the second round.

There's a lot of holes on this club, goaltending is a question mark, hoping that Bernier comes in and solidifies it. We need another Defenseman, couple left wingers, a second line center...I don't think it will all be addressed through trades.

It's entirely possible the Kings become the Columbus Blue Jackets by making the playoffs once and stringing together a bunch of top 10 picks for a decade.

Ray Finkle
07-20-2010, 03:40 AM
http://www.posters.ws/images/390359/martin_brodeur_nj_03_st_cup_photofile.jpg

when was the last time Fatty beat the Rangers in the playoffs?

chadta
07-20-2010, 05:43 AM
when was the last time Fatty beat the Rangers in the playoffs?


hey thats not fair, fatty hasn t beat anybody in the playoffs in years, and kovi has never won in the playoffs, its a match made in heaven

a better question would be when was the last time the rangers made the playoffs ?

24champ
07-20-2010, 04:30 PM
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/9c/fullj.3311ec732efb17ed742cc12fb75b330c/3311ec732efb17ed742cc12fb75b330c-getty-102908711bb008_new_jersey_d.jpg

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/7a/fullj.8ce801ad704cafa0297e8beb3daa43d8/8ce801ad704cafa0297e8beb3daa43d8-getty-102908711bb014_new_jersey_d.jpg

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/6b/fullj.36fe3e3d0567e83d2cfc1db04b849c5e/36fe3e3d0567e83d2cfc1db04b849c5e-getty-102908711bb023_new_jersey_d.jpg

24champ
07-20-2010, 04:32 PM
hey thats not fair, fatty hasn t beat anybody in the playoffs in years, and kovi has never won in the playoffs, its a match made in heaven

a better question would be when was the last time the rangers made the playoffs ?

Better question is why is a Flyer fan jumping into the bitchfest when the Flyers haven't won a cup as recent as either team?:rofl:

chadta
07-20-2010, 05:50 PM
Better question is why is a Flyer fan jumping into the b****fest when the Flyers haven't won a cup as recent as either team?:rofl:

yes sadly it has been awhile since they won anything, but champ i have to know


when has your team won anything ?

and hows kovi workin out for ya ? all that inside info :rofl: from a reliable source :rofl:

Baba Booey
07-20-2010, 07:14 PM
when was the last time Fatty beat the Rangers in the playoffs?

Only two years before you beat us, and I'm not about to brag about it because the Devils got their asses beat in the very next round.

I treasure championships, not meaningless early-round victories.

SoCalBronco
07-20-2010, 08:14 PM
Wow...the NHL has rejected the Kovalchuk deal.


While I'm certainly pleased to see the league starting to take a stand against these contracts that are plainly designed to circumvent the cap, I'm not sure that the league has the jurisdiction to do this, so long as the team is complying with the letter of the CBA. Yes...it looks bad, but I'm not aware of any authority that the league has in this area....especially since they've impliedly waived the right to object to any of these things after they allowed Detroit to get away with this type of stuff repeatedly and most recently Chicago with the Hossa contract.

Updated: July 20, 2010, 10:50 PM ETSources: NHL rejects Kovalchuk dealEmail Print Comments146 ESPN.com news services

NEWARK, N.J. -- The NHL is rejecting Ilya Kovalchuk's 17-year, $102 million contract with the New Jersey Devils because it circumvents the league's salary cap, a sources told ESPN.com's Scott Burnside.

The Associated Press first reported the news.

Just one day after Kovalchuk and the Devils came to an agreement on the longest contract in NHL history, the league determined that it was illegal, a person familiar with the issues raised told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the NHL hadn't made a formal announcement.

The contract was rejected because years of low salary at the end of the contract were added for the sole purpose of lowering the cap hit. The person added that no side believes Kovalchuk will play the final years of the deal at those terms. The star forward was slated to earn only $550,000 in each of the last five seasons of the contract that was to run through the 2026-27 season, when Kovalchuk would be 44.

Only hours earlier, Kovalchuk beamed as the Devils held a news conference Tuesday in their home arena to officially announce that he was coming back to the team after a lengthy free-agent courtship. Kovalchuk finished last season with the Devils after being traded by the Atlanta Thrashers, who couldn't get him signed before he was set to hit the open market.

Kovalchuk dismissed money as a main factor in his decision to stay with New Jersey. He instead cited long-term security for him and his family and the opportunity to win the Stanley Cup with an organization that boasts three titles in 15 seasons.

Kovalchuk's contract would have topped the 15-year deal goalie Rick DiPietro got from the New York Islanders, and two-time NHL MVP Alex Ovechkin's 13-year pact with Washington.

Kovalchuk was to earn $6 million each of the next two seasons, $11.5 million for the following five seasons, $10.5 million in the 2017-18 season, $8.5 million for the 2018-19 season, $6.5 million in 2019-20, $3.5 million in 2020-21, $750,000 the following season, and $550,000 for the final five years of the unprecedented deal.

The Devils would have absorbed an annual salary-cap hit of $6 million -- the average amount per season. That number was brought down because of the extended years at low salary at the end.

Whether he and the Devils can get together on a new deal remains to be seen. The Los Angeles Kings and the Russian KHL were also interested in signing Kovalchuk before he reached agreement with the Devils two weeks into the free agent shopping season.

Few expected that New Jersey would break from tradition of not handing out long-term contracts that have become popular in the NHL since the lockout ended in 2005 and the salary-cap era began. Now that the Devils did that, their efforts quickly failed.

Kovalchuk's time with the Thrashers ended once he rejected a 12-year, $101 million extension with Atlanta. He totaled 41 goals and 44 assists last season when he earned $7.5 million, but posted only 10 goals and 17 assists with the Devils. Kovalchuk had two goals and four assists during New Jersey's five-game, first-round playoff loss to Philadelphia.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/news/story?id=5396861

Baba Booey
07-20-2010, 08:31 PM
So apparently we can reject deals now because some douchebag in the NHL thinks he knows when Kovy will retire? What a joke.

Nothing a little ironing-out in the later years of the deal won't fix.

Killericon
07-20-2010, 08:39 PM
So apparently we can reject deals now because some douchebag in the NHL thinks he knows when Kovy will retire? What a joke.

Nothing a little ironing-out in the later years of the deal won't fix.

First of all, this is the NHL drawing a line on a string of contracts that have violated the spirit of the CBA(Hossa's among them, I'll admit), and they have been allowed to the whole time.

Second of all, it's not that simple. The "Later years" are 6 years where he'll be paid ~$650,000 a year.

Third of all, this might all be moot. Kovy's gonna file a grievance, and it'll go to an Arbitrator.

Baba Booey
07-20-2010, 09:00 PM
First of all, this is the NHL drawing a line on a string of contracts that have violated the spirit of the CBA(Hossa's among them, I'll admit), and they have been allowed to the whole time.

Second of all, it's not that simple. The "Later years" are 6 years where he'll be paid ~$650,000 a year.

Third of all, this might all be moot. Kovy's gonna file a grievance, and it'll go to an Arbitrator.

It's possible for Lamoriello to move some of the money around without increasing the cap hit, while increasing the salary he earns in the "later years".

Worst comes to worst, he shortens the deal by two to three years and the cap hit goes up to ~6.8.

SoCalBronco
07-20-2010, 09:05 PM
It's possible for Lamoriello to move some of the money around without increasing the cap hit, while increasing the salary he earns in the "later years".

Worst comes to worst, he shortens the deal by two to three years and the cap hit goes up to ~6.8.

Don't discount the small opening this gives to the KHL. Depending on how long it takes the arbitration process to come to a conclusion...or how long it takes Lou to strike a unique balance between massaging it for the league while not increasing the hit too much.......Ilya could just decide to take the 9m tax-free...esp if the Russians sweeten it a little more.

Ray Finkle
07-20-2010, 09:50 PM
So apparently we can reject deals now because some douchebag in the NHL thinks he knows when Kovy will retire? What a joke.

Nothing a little ironing-out in the later years of the deal won't fix.

yeah....this was a pure shot a circumventing the cap....if NY did this, you would be bitching a storm.

Killericon
07-20-2010, 10:29 PM
Don't discount the small opening this gives to the KHL. Depending on how long it takes the arbitration process to come to a conclusion...or how long it takes Lou to strike a unique balance between massaging it for the league while not increasing the hit too much.......Ilya could just decide to take the 9m tax-free...esp if the Russians sweeten it a little more.

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/7a/fullj.8ce801ad704cafa0297e8beb3daa43d8/8ce801ad704cafa0297e8beb3daa43d8-getty-102908711bb014_new_jersey_d.jpg

No way, dude. He's a Devil. I bet this goes to Arbitration, his side points to Hossa, Keith, Kipper and others, the Arbitrator says that the NHL can't stop these contracts at random, and lets it go through.

Baba Booey
07-20-2010, 10:33 PM
yeah....this was a pure shot a circumventing the cap....if NY did this, you would be b****ing a storm.

Enjoy Derek Boogaard.

Too bad he was the only NHL free agent this summer that seemed to have that big city twinkle in his eye.

24champ
07-20-2010, 11:41 PM
Don't discount the small opening this gives to the KHL. Depending on how long it takes the arbitration process to come to a conclusion...or how long it takes Lou to strike a unique balance between massaging it for the league while not increasing the hit too much.......Ilya could just decide to take the 9m tax-free...esp if the Russians sweeten it a little more.

KHL is not an option, and never will be. Kovy's kids are Americanized...

SoCalBronco
07-20-2010, 11:45 PM
KHL is not an option, and never will be. Kovy's kids are Americanized...

So?

I'm thinking Dad will make sure they have all the American TV channels, food, x-box's and other crap they want. I highly doubt that will stand in the way of 9 million dollars a season tax free. That's like 14m US dollars.

The KHL is a real option here....and from what I read they were battling down to the last second against Lou. If the arbitration drags out or they can't rework the contract...I could see him saying "**** it".

Baba Booey
07-20-2010, 11:49 PM
Guys, he's not going anywhere.

24champ
07-20-2010, 11:54 PM
So?

I'm thinking Dad will make sure they have all the American TV channels, food, x-box's and other crap they want. I highly doubt that will stand in the way of 9 million dollars a season tax free. That's like 14m US dollars.

The KHL is a real option here....and from what I read they were battling down to the last second against Lou. If the arbitration drags out or they can't rework the contract...I could see him saying "**** it".

No it is not, Kovalchuk is not going to uproot his kids to Russia when they have been Americanized. If the KHL was ever an option, he would be there already.

24champ
07-20-2010, 11:56 PM
Guys, he's not going anywhere.

I agree, but I think you guys get screwed, the cap hit is definitely going to be a little bigger.

Good luck to Lou Lam on moving the players around...he's going to have to beg teams and throw in some other assets to make cap room.

Killericon
07-21-2010, 12:53 AM
So?

I'm thinking Dad will make sure they have all the American TV channels, food, x-box's and other crap they want. I highly doubt that will stand in the way of 9 million dollars a season tax free. That's like 14m US dollars.

The KHL is a real option here....and from what I read they were battling down to the last second against Lou. If the arbitration drags out or they can't rework the contract...I could see him saying "**** it".

If the KHL were gonna offer him enough money to get him, they would've done it already. I think him taking this long to decide had less to do with the money, and more the decision of where/with whom he wanted to spend the rest of his career.

If it gets dragged out, I bet he'll sign a 1 year deal to buy time.

chadta
07-21-2010, 04:08 AM
First of all, this is the NHL drawing a line on a string of contracts that have violated the spirit of the CBA(Hossa's among them, I'll admit), and they have been allowed to the whole time.

if the nhl didnt want contracts like this, they never should have written a CBA that allows it.

im gonna have to agree with neckbeard that this is BS and the league has no busness getting involved.

in the spirit of the CBA well, now since were supposed to guess what they want since they didnt write it properly, the league wants parity, so since the leafs have sucked forever they get to take a good player from the capitals since they had the best record last year, while sending back a crappy one.

see why we dont do things in the spirit of what was written

24champ
07-21-2010, 06:32 PM
if the nhl didnt want contracts like this, they never should have written a CBA that allows it.


The CBA doesn't allow cap circumvention, at least blatant ones. Everyone knows damn well that Kovy is not going to play till he is 44. The Hossa contract is cap circumvention, no doubt but it makes more hockey sense than the Kovy contract. The Kovy contract will set new precedence and teh NHL applied the brakes to this deal and flat out said no. It's the correct decision on the part of the NHL suits. There's no way you pay Kovy 650 k for that many years when you have Madano, Messier, Recchi and countless other old guys that make 1 million-2 million in their final contracts.

The NHLPA is in a tough spot here, they haven't come out today and claimed SPECIFICALLY that the contract is valid. What they did say is that they were going to look at their options and look at the NHL's reasons for rejecting said contract.

SoCalBronco
07-21-2010, 08:08 PM
Lou's hand was forced by ownership? I don't think I've EVER seen him call out his owner....and I thought he basically had free reign over all things NJD:

Lamoriello said he "absolutely" rolled his eyes when the Islanders signed Rick DiPietro(notes) to a 15-year contract in 2006 and when Washington signed Alex Ovechkin(notes) to a 13-year contract in 2008. He also said he "absolutely" rolled his eyes about the Kovalchuk's contract terms.

So why would he sign Kovalchuk to such a deal?

"You'd have to speak to ownership about that," Lamoriello said. "The commitment that ownership has made here, this is a commitment and a decision they wanted to make for this type of a player and all I can do is say whether the player is a player that will fit into the team, can help the team and is not a risk as a player. As far as what the financial commitment is and that aspect of it, that was out of my hands."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Lamoriello-gets-self-loathing-over-Devils-Koval?urn=nhl-257154

chadta
07-22-2010, 04:31 AM
The CBA doesn't allow cap circumvention, at least blatant ones. Everyone knows damn well that Kovy is not going to play till he is 44. The Hossa contract is cap circumvention, no doubt but it makes more hockey sense than the Kovy contract. The Kovy contract will set new precedence and teh NHL applied the brakes to this deal and flat out said no. It's the correct decision on the part of the NHL suits. There's no way you pay Kovy 650 k for that many years when you have Madano, Messier, Recchi and countless other old guys that make 1 million-2 million in their final contracts.

The NHLPA is in a tough spot here, they haven't come out today and claimed SPECIFICALLY that the contract is valid. What they did say is that they were going to look at their options and look at the NHL's reasons for rejecting said contract.


50.7 "100 Percent Rule" for Multi-Year SPCs. The difference between the stated Player Salary and Bonuses in the first two League Years of an SPC cannot exceed the amount of the lower of the two League Years. Thereafter, in all subsequent League Years of the SPC, (i) any increase in Player Salary and Bonuses from one League Year to another may not exceed the amount of the lower of the first two League Years of the SPC (or, if such amounts are the same, that same amount); and (ii) any decrease in Player Salary and Bonuses from one League Year to another may not exceed 50 percent of the Player Salary and Bonuses of the lower of the first two League Years of the SPC (or, if such amounts are the same, 50 percent of that same amount).

YEAR SALARY
10-11 6.00 NHL
11-12 6.00 NHL
12-13 11.50 NHL
13-14 11.50 NHL
14-15 11.50 NHL
15-16 11.50 NHL
16-17 11.50 NHL
17-18 10.50 NHL
18-19 8.50 NHL
19-20 6.50 NHL
20-21 3.50 NHL
21-22 750 NHL
22-23 550 NHL
23-24 550 NHL
24-25 550 NHL
25-26 550 NHL
26-27 LY 550 NHL

Year 1 and 2 are $6 mil. Thus. any future year can't increase more than $6 mil (lowest of 1st two years) and no future year may decrease more than $3 mil (50% of lowest of first two year).

The structure of the deal passes this test. It is therefore a legal contract, that is ntil bettman and his clowns step in and argue intentions, much like supplemental discipline where things get made up onthe fly. Its not a grey area, the league has rules and those rules have been followed.

Its WRONG, and only further makes the league a laughing stock

24champ
07-22-2010, 11:08 AM
50.7 "100 Percent Rule" for Multi-Year SPCs. The difference between the stated Player Salary and Bonuses in the first two League Years of an SPC cannot exceed the amount of the lower of the two League Years. Thereafter, in all subsequent League Years of the SPC, (i) any increase in Player Salary and Bonuses from one League Year to another may not exceed the amount of the lower of the first two League Years of the SPC (or, if such amounts are the same, that same amount); and (ii) any decrease in Player Salary and Bonuses from one League Year to another may not exceed 50 percent of the Player Salary and Bonuses of the lower of the first two League Years of the SPC (or, if such amounts are the same, 50 percent of that same amount).

YEAR SALARY
10-11 6.00 NHL
11-12 6.00 NHL
12-13 11.50 NHL
13-14 11.50 NHL
14-15 11.50 NHL
15-16 11.50 NHL
16-17 11.50 NHL
17-18 10.50 NHL
18-19 8.50 NHL
19-20 6.50 NHL
20-21 3.50 NHL
21-22 750 NHL
22-23 550 NHL
23-24 550 NHL
24-25 550 NHL
25-26 550 NHL
26-27 LY 550 NHL

Year 1 and 2 are $6 mil. Thus. any future year can't increase more than $6 mil (lowest of 1st two years) and no future year may decrease more than $3 mil (50% of lowest of first two year).

The structure of the deal passes this test. It is therefore a legal contract, that is ntil bettman and his clowns step in and argue intentions, much like supplemental discipline where things get made up onthe fly. Its not a grey area, the league has rules and those rules have been followed.

Its WRONG, and only further makes the league a laughing stock

The was structured WRONG, everyone knows that Kovalchuk isn't going to play until he was 44. It was a blatant circumvention of the cap. From a Union Lawyer that commented on insidethekings with Rich Hammond.


As I read Article 11, which deals with the rejection of contracts, they do not have to prove the intent, just the effect. So even if they did not intend for the contract to circumvent the cap, it can still be rejected because the effect is to do so.

The same is true for Article 26 – it uses the phrase "is intended to or has the effect of" circumventing "the provisions of this Agreement or the intention of the parties as reflected by the provisions of this Agreement". That is also another place where it gets interesting because they are looking at the intent of the parties in the CBA negotiations, not just the actual final words of the CBA, which often are vague – basically, what the CBA means, rather than just what it says.

So it is actually an easier burden of proof for the league – they only have to prove the effect, not the actual intent. And that is why I think there is a realtively clear-cut situation here. Kovi could have fully intended to play 17 more years (cough yeah right cough), but the effect is clearly a circumvention of the cap, especially considering there is little chance the league minimum in those last 6 years will be as low as $550K.

I think the PA is in a really tough situation here. As numerous people have pointed out, these kinds of contracts hurt the PA’s members as a whole to the benefit of the stars. On the other hand, taking a stand here could set up strategy for the next round of CBA negotiations. So I think there are a lot of high level talks going on right now trying to determine what the best course of action is.

Grossman and Lamoriello, on the other hand, could find themselves in a pretty sticky situation given the certifications required under Article 26. I think their best way to save face and be able to file those certifications is to go back and rework the deal. As has been pointed out, the technically cannot tweak/adjust this contract because it is void. But that does not mean they cannot go back and use these terms as a starting point to come up with a new contract. At this point, the league probably won’t accept 17 years (I think they could have gotten away with it if they had been smarter about the numbers). Kovy is probably going to have to take less money and NJ is probably going to have to take a higher cap hit.

Tombstone RJ
07-22-2010, 11:33 AM
50.7 "100 Percent Rule" for Multi-Year SPCs. The difference between the stated Player Salary and Bonuses in the first two League Years of an SPC cannot exceed the amount of the lower of the two League Years. Thereafter, in all subsequent League Years of the SPC, (i) any increase in Player Salary and Bonuses from one League Year to another may not exceed the amount of the lower of the first two League Years of the SPC (or, if such amounts are the same, that same amount); and (ii) any decrease in Player Salary and Bonuses from one League Year to another may not exceed 50 percent of the Player Salary and Bonuses of the lower of the first two League Years of the SPC (or, if such amounts are the same, 50 percent of that same amount).

YEAR SALARY
10-11 6.00 NHL
11-12 6.00 NHL
12-13 11.50 NHL
13-14 11.50 NHL
14-15 11.50 NHL
15-16 11.50 NHL
16-17 11.50 NHL
17-18 10.50 NHL
18-19 8.50 NHL
19-20 6.50 NHL
20-21 3.50 NHL
21-22 750 NHL
22-23 550 NHL
23-24 550 NHL
24-25 550 NHL
25-26 550 NHL
26-27 LY 550 NHL

Year 1 and 2 are $6 mil. Thus. any future year can't increase more than $6 mil (lowest of 1st two years) and no future year may decrease more than $3 mil (50% of lowest of first two year).

The structure of the deal passes this test. It is therefore a legal contract, that is ntil bettman and his clowns step in and argue intentions, much like supplemental discipline where things get made up onthe fly. Its not a grey area, the league has rules and those rules have been followed.

Its WRONG, and only further makes the league a laughing stock

Is it all guaranteed? That's the real issue. I can see the devils cutting Kova after let's say 8 years or so and if nothing is guaranteed after let's say 5-6 years then what the hell does it matter?

If anything, Kova is a moron for signing this IF it's not all guaranteed. Now if it is then yah, major problems IMHO.

chadta
07-22-2010, 12:04 PM
Is it all guaranteed? That's the real issue. I can see the devils cutting Kova after let's say 8 years or so and if nothing is guaranteed after let's say 5-6 years then what the hell does it matter?

If anything, Kova is a moron for signing this IF it's not all guaranteed. Now if it is then yah, major problems IMHO.

all nhl contracts are guarenteed

Hogan11
07-22-2010, 01:33 PM
Flyers trade Gagne to Lightning for Walker
Jul 19, 5:25 pm EDT

TAMPA, Fla. (AP)—Simon Gagne(notes) gladly waived his no-trade clause to leave the only NHL team he ever played for and join the Tampa Bay Lightning.

New Lightning general manager Steve Yzerman added a big offensive chip to his club by trading for the longtime Philadelphia Flyers forward Monday. Tampa Bay sent defenseman Matt Walker(notes) and a fourth-round pick in next year’s draft to Philadelphia to get Gagne, who spent 10 seasons with the Flyers.

“In adding Simon to the Lightning, we acquire a very talented player that will play alongside our top forwards,” Yzerman said in a statement. “With his combination of speed and skill we are excited to have him with us and grateful he was willing to waive his no movement clause.

“This trade not only makes us a better team in the short term, it helps create long-term flexibility for us, which all along has been one of our top priorities.”

In 664 NHL games, Gagne has 259 goals and 265 assists. He ranks ninth on the Flyers’ career list in goals and 10th in points and games played.

He had 17 goals and 23 assists in 58 games last season and added nine goals and three assists in 19 playoff games as Philadelphia reached the Stanley Cup finals before losing to the Chicago Blackhawks in six games.

Gagne is eligible to become a free agent after next season.

“I’m very excited right now,” Gagne said. “I’m looking at this opportunity as a new challenge and a new start. Tampa Bay was a team I was more than willing to waive my no-move clause.”

The 6-foot-4, 215-pound Walker has played in 304 career regular season games over seven seasons. The 30-year-old Alberta native was originally selected by the St. Louis Blues in the third round of the 1998 draft.

Walker had two goals, three assists and 90 penalty minutes in 66 games last season with the Lightning. While with St. Louis, Chicago and Tampa Bay, Walker amassed four goals, 26 assists and 444 penalty minutes during his NHL career.

“We like the way Matt plays,” Flyers GM Paul Holmgren said. “He’s a character-intense player. He plays physical. He’s a stay-at-home guy that is a good penalty killer. On our team he can buy us dirty minutes and not be a liability, but be a positive force and help and defend our own zone.”

Walker said he has “always wanted to play in Philly” and that he would be a “good fit” with the Flyers.

“My initial reaction was pure excitement,” Walker said.

The 30-year-old Gagne, chosen by Philadelphia with the No. 22 pick in the 1998 NHL draft, led the Flyers in goals three times—including two 40-goal seasons—and twice in points. He was chosen as the team’s MVP in two seasons and was selected to the NHL All-Star game twice.

“Anytime you’re talking about a young man that has brought as much to the organization that Simon has, it’s very difficult,” Holmgren said of dealing Gagne.

Gagne, who scored a career-best 47 goals during the 2005-06 season, scored the winning goal in overtime of Game 4 against Boston in the second round and the decisive goal in Game 7 of that series to complete Philadelphia’s comeback from a 3-0 deficit.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_ylt=Al5KDFOeLEcQkI_qtPSjFVR7vLYF?slug=ap-flyers-lightningtrade

All I can say is salary dump.

Hogan11
07-22-2010, 01:36 PM
Flyers sign F Darroll Powe to 1-year contract

(AP)—The Flyers have signed forward Darroll Powe(notes) to a one-year contract.

The 25-year-old Powe had nine goals, six assists and 54 penalty minutes in 63 games for Philadelphia last season. He also had one assist and six penalty minutes in 23 playoff games as the Flyers advanced to the Stanley Cup finals, where they lost to Chicago in six games.

Powe, a native of Saskatchewan, signed with the Flyers on May 24, 2007, after spending four years at Princeton University.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_ylt=AldkDstccJLh4BQ3Y9imGux7vLYF?slug=ap-flyers-powe

I like Powe, so I'm happy to see this.

Tombstone RJ
07-22-2010, 04:57 PM
all nhl contracts are guarenteed

Wow, just wow. That is an assinine contract by the Devils. What if he gets injured and can't play? Guaranteed money means he still gets paid. Also, if he's traded then that means NJD still have to pay him if the team he's traded to does not want to pay him the full contract.

Complete moron move by the NJD. Guraranteed money means the player gets the money period. He can suck, he can be injured, he can be traded and the contract might not be picked up, but the devils still pay the money.

Outside of death, the Devils will pay him and I bet you anything that even if he did die, the devils would still be forced to pay the contract to his spouse...

chadta
07-22-2010, 06:24 PM
Also, if he's traded then that means NJD still have to pay him if the team he's traded to does not want to pay him the full contract.

thats not possible in the nhl

if the player is traded his contract goes with him

24champ
07-22-2010, 07:15 PM
So?

I'm thinking Dad will make sure they have all the American TV channels, food, x-box's and other crap they want. I highly doubt that will stand in the way of 9 million dollars a season tax free. That's like 14m US dollars.

The KHL is a real option here....and from what I read they were battling down to the last second against Lou. If the arbitration drags out or they can't rework the contract...I could see him saying "**** it".

Also here is Kovy touched on the importance of his family in a location...


It wasn’t really about money. It was more where are you going to spend the rest of your hockey life, but after that, when you spend that kind of time in a city you may stay there for the rest of your life. That was the main concern for us, what kind of area is here and what kind of schools are here. I have three kids. It’s really all about the family.

KHL was never going to happen...

Tombstone RJ
07-22-2010, 10:53 PM
thats not possible in the nhl

if the player is traded his contract goes with him

So he's untradable now too because of his behemeth contract.... great! :thumbs:

chadta
07-23-2010, 05:02 AM
So he's untradable now too because of his behemeth contract.... great! :thumbs:


naw, hes very tradeable when hes in the final 5 years of the deal, a team such as nashville , buffalo, carolina, atlanta, or any of the other piss poor teams that struggle to meet the cap floor would be all over him.

they would only have to pay him 550,000 or whatever it is, but get a cap hit of 6 mill, which would come in very handy towards making the cap floor.

SoCalBronco
07-26-2010, 05:31 PM
Looks like Ray Finkle's Rags are going to sign Alexander Frolov to a 1 year deal. I think that's a good signing and he can provide some offensive punch.....although I know 24 and other King fans don't like his work ethic.

gyldenlove
07-26-2010, 06:03 PM
Wow, just wow. That is an assinine contract by the Devils. What if he gets injured and can't play? Guaranteed money means he still gets paid. Also, if he's traded then that means NJD still have to pay him if the team he's traded to does not want to pay him the full contract.

Complete moron move by the NJD. Guraranteed money means the player gets the money period. He can suck, he can be injured, he can be traded and the contract might not be picked up, but the devils still pay the money.

Outside of death, the Devils will pay him and I bet you anything that even if he did die, the devils would still be forced to pay the contract to his spouse...

There are only 3 ways for the team not to pay the entirety of the deal:

1. Death
2. Buyout, the team has the option to terminate the contract by paying something like 2/3 of the remaining value, however the team will then be carrying that value divided by the remaining years of the contract + 1 on the salary cap for the remainder of the contract + 1 year.
3. Retirement or defection

In general this is why these super long contracts have a bunch of years at the end at minimum salary, the whole point is that for salary cap purposes the player is assumed to play those years so the cap hit is divided by the full length, however the team is banking on the player retiring instead of playing 5 years for minumum salary, so they save a bit of money and they get rid of the player.

gyldenlove
07-26-2010, 06:06 PM
Looks like Ray Finkle's Rags are going to sign Alexander Frolov to a 1 year deal. I think that's a good signing and he can provide some offensive punch.....although I know 24 and other King fans don't like his work ethic.

I don't know what it is with some of these Russian kids especially, they don't have the drive or the desire.

24champ
07-26-2010, 06:58 PM
Looks like Ray Finkle's Rags are going to sign Alexander Frolov to a 1 year deal. I think that's a good signing and he can provide some offensive punch.....although I know 24 and other King fans don't like his work ethic.

He's a good puck handler, and above average in defense for a forward.

I am glad he is not going to be on the Kings anymore, I got sick of seeing Froloaf half assing it and then finally, he couldn't complete one or two breakaways in the playoffs vs the Canucks.

SoCalBronco
07-26-2010, 10:27 PM
Long time Penguins PA announcer John Barbaro passed away today from brain cancer.

RIP John. :(

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24champ
07-27-2010, 12:54 PM
Kings sign Poni...not sure how I feel about it. Socal thoughts on him?

Ray Finkle
07-27-2010, 01:03 PM
for the price I don't mind the signing....I'd love to see when Torts puts a boot in his ass. Of course he may be a different player with Anismov and if Grachev can make the team.

SoCalBronco
07-27-2010, 04:18 PM
Kings sign Poni...not sure how I feel about it. Socal thoughts on him?

Poni never really developed any chemistry with Geno like they thought he would. He was a healthy scratch a few times in the playoffs. Ordinarly, he's a nice player, tho..with a solid shot. Maybe he will do better in LA.

chadta
07-30-2010, 04:01 AM
champ, being in leaf land, i saw alot of poni as a leaf, he had flashes of awesomeness, but floated alot, would be invisible for weeks at a time.

in other news

Gary Bettman was in Pittsburgh yesterday, and was asked about the League's rejection of the Kovalchuk Contract. He was questioned about the "other" front-loaded Contracts that have already been approved, and his answer was pretty direct:

He said a number of those Contracts "are open investigative cases", and the teams involved are aware of that fact. Further Mr. Bettman said that if the NHL wins their case against Kovalchuk, the league may look at some of those other long-term Contracts.

gyldenlove
08-02-2010, 08:58 AM
Looks like San Jose solved their goalie issues, after settling the Blackhawks with that offer sheet for Hjalmarson and making sure they wouldn't be able to hang on to Niemi, so now that he is a free agent I expect the Sharks to jump on him.

Baba Booey
08-02-2010, 11:17 PM
for the price I don't mind the signing....I'd love to see when Torts puts a boot in his ass. Of course he may be a different player with Anismov and if Grachev can make the team.

Any chance we see a line of Frolov-Anisimov-Grachev this year?