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SportinOne
09-30-2009, 08:23 PM
It's pretty simple:

HAT
09-30-2009, 08:32 PM
Of course it is.....It just makes you that much more of an idiot for thinking you know more than people who are paid millions to manage billion dollar businesses.

Spider
09-30-2009, 08:34 PM
Of course it is.....It just makes you that much more of an idiot for thinking you know more than people who are paid millions to manage billion dollar businesses.

LOL .......... rodknockers bro

tsiguy96
09-30-2009, 08:39 PM
yes. that is different then coming on here and calling people who agree with the team homers and idiots because we have better **** to do than whine about how bad they will be. this is ENTERTAINMENT, it is here for us to enjoy, why is yelling and screaming all the time about how bad they will be make it fun for you at all?

being a fan of the team does not HOPE for failure so you see the head coach fail and get fired, nor is it being ridiculous like jhns and trying to downplay every win we get by saying it wasnt good enough becasue teh teams we beat werent good enough. its ****ing stupid, sit back and try to enjoy it, at the end of the day you cannot change anything. leave that to the professionals, not the armchair GMs such as yourself.

Baba Booey
09-30-2009, 08:40 PM
I'd say yeah.

Spider
09-30-2009, 08:41 PM
yes. that is different then coming on here and calling people who agree with the team homers and idiots because we have better **** to do than whine about how bad they will be. this is ENTERTAINMENT, it is here for us to enjoy, why is yelling and screaming all the time about how bad they will be make it fun for you at all?

being a fan of the team does not HOPE for failure so you see the head coach fail and get fired, nor is it being ridiculous like jhns and trying to downplay every win we get by saying it wasnt good enough becasue teh teams we beat werent good enough. its ****ing stupid, sit back and try to enjoy it, at the end of the day you cannot change anything. leave that to the professionals, not the armchair GMs such as yourself.

It really sucks being nice to you cause we are on the same side on this issue .........

HEAV
09-30-2009, 08:47 PM
The is a difference in disagreeing with moves and flat out being a douche about the coach/owner and direction of the team.

I wasn't a McDaniels fan during the interview process, but I excepted the hiring and looked forward to see what would happen.

But for some people on here Bowlen could have hired Jesus and they still would have hated him...

It's one thing to say that you don't agree with a move, it's another thing when you start filling the board with post of name calling and repeated bashing of the moves.

To me fans are allowed to disagree with team transactions and coaching. But when you start to hate the team... might be time to move on.

SportinOne
09-30-2009, 08:54 PM
Of course it is.....It just makes you that much more of an idiot for thinking you know more than people who are paid millions to manage billion dollar businesses.

What?

http://blog.mlive.com/lionsinsider/2008/02/medium_080222-matt-millen.jpg

DBroncos4life
09-30-2009, 09:01 PM
What?

http://blog.mlive.com/lionsinsider/2008/02/medium_080222-matt-millen.jpg

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2205/kingcarl.jpg (http://img29.imageshack.us/i/kingcarl.jpg/)
What, What?

maher_tyler
09-30-2009, 09:03 PM
The is a difference in disagreeing with moves and flat out being a douche about the coach/owner and direction of the team.

I wasn't a McDaniels fan during the interview process, but I excepted the hiring and looked forward to see what would happen.

But for some people on here Bowlen could have hired Jesus and they still would have hated him...

It's one thing to say that you don't agree with a move, it's another thing when you start filling the board with post of name calling and repeated bashing of the moves.

To me fans are allowed to disagree with team transactions and coaching. But when you start to hate the team... might be time to move on.

Exactly!! Obviously not everyone is going to agree with every move made. Voice your opinion a couple of times and be done with it. There is no need to voice your displeasure in every thread, it's beyond annoying!! It got to a point where i had to put a few people on ignore because every post was the same **** on a different day!

SportinOne
09-30-2009, 09:12 PM
yes. that is different then coming on here and calling people who agree with the team homers and idiots because we have better **** to do than whine about how bad they will be. this is ENTERTAINMENT, it is here for us to enjoy, why is yelling and screaming all the time about how bad they will be make it fun for you at all?

being a fan of the team does not HOPE for failure so you see the head coach fail and get fired, nor is it being ridiculous like jhns and trying to downplay every win we get by saying it wasnt good enough becasue teh teams we beat werent good enough. its ****ing stupid, sit back and try to enjoy it, at the end of the day you cannot change anything. leave that to the professionals, not the armchair GMs such as yourself.

If you were called an idiot or were verbally pushed around, maybe it has more to do with the way you composed yourself than your stance on the coaching staff/organization.

Do you honestly think ANYONE on this board was pissed off after Stokely's miracle catch? And who are you to tell someone how they should enjoy something? Tell you what. Get yourself a time machine and go to detroit immediately after the 2005 draft and tell them to stop meddling in the affairs of richer and smarter people.

GoBroncos DownUnder
09-30-2009, 09:13 PM
What?

http://blog.mlive.com/lionsinsider/2008/02/medium_080222-matt-millen.jpg
The people who made the ABOVE decision are greedy/stupid/losers, they have made very few good decisions in the history of their franchise. They counted their dollars as the career of one of the NFL's best backs was gradually wasted away. Where do we start on Millen's lack of experience ...



As for the above question, people CAN disagree, but it's when one someone fails or refuses to see the other party's point of view ... it gets ugly!
IMO - your "fandom" should DEFINITELY be questioned if you continually argue with people during the off-season and pre-season.

HAT
09-30-2009, 09:21 PM
What?

http://blog.mlive.com/lionsinsider/2008/02/medium_080222-matt-millen.jpg

Thank you for proving my point. Every single decision Millen made was better than you, I, or any dumb ass NFL message board poster could've come up with.

Sorry to burst your bubble there Champ.

tsiguy96
09-30-2009, 09:24 PM
If you were called an idiot or were verbally pushed around, maybe it has more to do with the way you composed yourself than your stance on the coaching staff/organization.

Do you honestly think ANYONE on this board was pissed off after Stokely's miracle catch? And who are you to tell someone how they should enjoy something? Tell you what. Get yourself a time machine and go to detroit immediately after the 2005 draft and tell them to stop meddling in the affairs of richer and smarter people.

by the way some people post about how this team still sucks or whatever they are spewing about now, its hard to say that everyone wanted stokely to make that TD given how they talk about the team.

theres a difference between 5 seasons of patheticness and a coach who, at the time of all the bitching, had never coached a single game in his life and brought in a new and different type of team and attitude that the people here arent used to. instead of embracing it to see how it turns out, what did they do? bitch, moan and cry to anyone who would listen.

Rock Chalk
09-30-2009, 10:04 PM
Exactly!! Obviously not everyone is going to agree with every move made. Voice your opinion a couple of times and be done with it. There is no need to voice your displeasure in every thread, it's beyond annoying!! It got to a point where i had to put a few people on ignore because every post was the same **** on a different day!

This really was my only issue.

It wasn't that people disagree'd with my views on whatever situation, its that said people just kept harping on it and harping on it and harping on it. Same ****ing thing, every post, every thread, every day.

Mock, rasta, jhns, colonelbeef and a few other douches I put on ignore. Probably just temporary, but I really dont care to read their posts. Its the same ****. Conversely, there were a few that escaped ignore, but thats merely because they are some truly old skool posters. Blueflame, SoCal, broncosteven, et.al. whom I figured deserved a little leeway.

I was on record as being against the McDaniels hiring. I am also on record as being wrong about it. I thought McD was an offensive minded guy and wouldn't fix the defense but he knew EXACTLY WHO to hire and WHAT needed to be done on defense to get us better NOW. Offensively its a work in progress but that IS to be expected with the circumstances.

Taco John
09-30-2009, 10:06 PM
Thank you for proving my point. Every single decision Millen made was better than you, I, or any dumb ass NFL message board poster could've come up with.

Sorry to burst your bubble there Champ.

I personally think that you're point got pretty well demolished, but congratulations on being the first guy I ever met who didn't believe he was at least as competent as Matt Millen.

HAT
09-30-2009, 10:19 PM
I personally think that you're point got pretty well demolished, but congratulations on being the first guy I ever met who didn't believe he was at least as competent as Matt Millen.

I was hoping someone would take that bait.

The first? Wow. So let me get this straight.....

You think you are (or could be) as competent of an NFL GM as Matt Millen?
So what's stopping you? ???

Bronco X
09-30-2009, 10:22 PM
You can disagree with the direction of the team, of course. I disagreed with trading Cutler and the asset management during the draft, just as most Bronco fans did. Though I never hated on McDaniels to the point that I was hoping for him to fail, and there are, beyond a doubt, people so butt hurt over the Cutler trade that they do want McDaniels and Orton (and by extension, the Broncos) to fail. I've never been that into idea that being a true blue fan is something pure and noble, but I don't get fans that get so angry that they want people who need to succeed for the team to succeed to fail. When your anger takes you that far, what's the point of being a fan?

listopencil
09-30-2009, 10:23 PM
I was hoping someone would take that bait.

The first? Wow. So let me get this straight.....

You think you are (or could be) as competent of an NFL GM as Matt Millen?
So what's stopping you? ???


What team did Matt Millen play for?

Bronco X
09-30-2009, 10:26 PM
I was hoping someone would take that bait.

The first? Wow. So let me get this straight.....

You think you are (or could be) as competent of an NFL GM as Matt Millen?
So what's stopping you? ???

You thought that movie where Whoopi Goldberg becomes head coach of the Knicks was realistic, did you?

DBroncos4life
09-30-2009, 10:32 PM
You thought that movie where Whoopi Goldberg becomes head coach of the Knicks was realistic, did you?

I've looked on helpwanted.com for years and still they haven't listed any NFL HC openings nor GM openings.

GoBroncos DownUnder
09-30-2009, 10:43 PM
Maybe Millen could be a GM for the UFC?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ZwO_ogM-PLDmLM:http://patsblog.projo.com/millen1211.jpg
Matt Millen pic (http://patsblog.projo.com/millen1211.jpg)

BroncoMan4ever
09-30-2009, 10:45 PM
The is a difference in disagreeing with moves and flat out being a douche about the coach/owner and direction of the team.

I wasn't a McDaniels fan during the interview process, but I excepted the hiring and looked forward to see what would happen.

But for some people on here Bowlen could have hired Jesus and they still would have hated him...

It's one thing to say that you don't agree with a move, it's another thing when you start filling the board with post of name calling and repeated bashing of the moves.

To me fans are allowed to disagree with team transactions and coaching. But when you start to hate the team... might be time to move on.

i agree completely. i didn't like some of the moves made this season. but there was no chance in hell i was going to root for the team to lose so new moves that i might agree with would be made. i didn't like McDaniels and for awhile after the Cutler trade, hated his guts, but as long as he coached in Denver, i was hoping he would kick the leagues ass and prove me wrong on my disagreements with his choices.

i don't agree with everything my team does, but at the end of the day, i hope every move pans out and we are better for it.

IHaveALight
09-30-2009, 10:45 PM
News flash - We are all human beings and we live on the planet Earth.

We all have our own opinions. We all view things in different ways. Our thoughts do not coincide with everyone else’s. And none of us really know the absolute truth behind any of our opinions. Although we all think that "my opinion is fact". And it may be, at least for ourselves. If you have 100% faith in something then maybe it makes it true, for you. But the guy next to you can come into the same exact scenario for himself with the exact opposite opinion of yours. In our current state as humans there is a right and left for everything. But that doesn't mean one side is right and the other wrong. All it really means is that we have free will to observe, judge and make our own decisions that are based off of our own beliefs.

And now the funny part is we get so attached to our own opinions that when someone strongly disagrees with them we feel like our sense of self is being violated. And we must defend ourselves and make the other person see the "real truth".

"Opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one, most of them stink and nobody wants to hear yours."

Seriously though people, we all need to calm down around here. It is so ridiculous to get worked up over someone else’s opinion. People believe what they believe, this has no effect on you. That is unless you let it bother you. For every opinion that you have, there is going to be someone that thinks the opposite. This is the world we live in, so accept that and chill the **** out!! :peace:

HAT
09-30-2009, 10:47 PM
What team did Matt Millen play for?

WTF does Millen playing for the raiders have to do with anything?

The premise of the thread is:

"Can you disagree with MANAGMENT decisions and still be a fan?"

The answer is clearly and overwhelmingly YES.

My sidebar to that was simply that just because we as fans disagree...We are doing it from the OUTSIDE looking in. And if you think you know more than the people that are actually in charge of running billion dollar franchises, than you are in fact an idiot.

My biggest problem the past few years with Denver Bronco Mgt. was that they kept Stale-ahan around about 2 years too long. Was I still a fan in 2007? YES. Did I know more than Bronco Mgt. (read: Bowlen)? NO!

Are you guys seriously trying to make a case that any given O'mane poster knows more about managing a billion dollar NFL franchise than the people that actually do?

Wow...Can I have my ban back?

DBroncos4life
09-30-2009, 10:52 PM
WTF does Millen playing for the raiders have to do with anything?

The premise of the thread is:

"Can you disagree with MANAGMENT decisions and still be a fan?"

The answer is clearly and overwhelmingly YES.

My sidebar to that was simply that just because we as fans disagree...We are doing it from the OUTSIDE looking in. And if you think you know more than the people that are actually in charge of running billion dollar franchises, than you are in fact an idiot.

My biggest problem the past few years with Denver Bronco Mgt. was that they kept Stale-ahan around about 2 years too long. Was I still a fan in 2007? YES. Did I know more than Bronco Mgt. (read: Bowlen)? NO!

Are you guys seriously trying to make a case that any given O'mane poster knows more about managing a billion dollar NFL franchise than the people that actually do?

Wow...Can I have my ban back?

That's the first thing in the first 1000 posts since you have been back I will agree with.

HAT
09-30-2009, 10:55 PM
I've looked on helpwanted.com for years and still they haven't listed any NFL HC openings nor GM openings.

Exactly....When I was 32 I used to cruise monster.com to see if there were any Denver Bronco HC listings. I never saw one so I figured maybe NFL jobs were only handed out to ex-players and such.

I'm pretty bummed now that I realize that even if I was 5'8" and had no shot at being an NFL player, I still could've landed the job had I just dedicated my entire life to football at an early age and learned everything I could and paid my dues.

I do have several VB boards on my resume though so I'm still holding out hope.

Popps
09-30-2009, 10:55 PM
As long as it's understood that there is a clear difference between "disagreeing with decisions" and actively bashing the team by trolling the board and defacing our organization.

Critical analysis is one thing. Aids cacti up Bowlen's gutless ass is another.

"Real fan" is a subjective term. But, a troll is a troll.

But, those mouthy doom-preachers are a little quiet lately.

HAT
09-30-2009, 10:58 PM
That's the first thing in the first 1000 posts since you have been back I will agree with.

LOL


I sincerely hope it is the last.

DBroncos4life
09-30-2009, 10:59 PM
LOL


I sincerely hope it is the last.

I have no doubt in my mind....

errand
10-01-2009, 01:35 AM
What team did Matt Millen play for?

49ers and Raiders...in fact during the Broncos humiliating 55-10 loss to 49ers, elway as he left field was grabbed by Millen, who told him to keep his head up. I'm sure it was easier said than done

OBF1
10-01-2009, 02:36 AM
The is a difference in disagreeing with moves and flat out being a douche about the coach/owner and direction of the team.

I wasn't a McDaniels fan during the interview process, but I excepted the hiring and looked forward to see what would happen.

But for some people on here Bowlen could have hired Jesus and they still would have hated him...

It's one thing to say that you don't agree with a move, it's another thing when you start filling the board with post of name calling and repeated bashing of the moves.

To me fans are allowed to disagree with team transactions and coaching. But when you start to hate the team... might be time to move on.

Someone else gets it.

Like was stated, you can disagree with what goes on, but going on and on about coaching choices and new player policies and such does not give you the right to flat out be an ass hole about it like quite a number of Coach McDaniel haters, Bowlen Bashers and Cutler ass kissers have done for the past freekin 6 months have. Get over it or just move on.

Meck77
10-01-2009, 03:52 AM
Disagreeing sure. Grown men in meltdown mode over off season moves is another. Some humans are just resistant to change while others embrace it. Bottom line is if you want the big reward you have to take big risks. Now unless there is a meltdown boy around here with a lombardi stuffed in his closet I think I'll stick with Pat Bowlen as our owner/decision maker and support the organization while they go through transition.

colonelbeef
10-01-2009, 06:42 AM
Of course it is.....It just makes you that much more of an idiot for thinking you know more than people who are paid millions to manage billion dollar businesses.

Morons get into positions they don't deserve all the time. Your worldview is way too simple.

You think there aren't fans out there that don't know how to run the Lions or Knicks or Orioles better than they have been run?

baja
10-01-2009, 06:51 AM
<b>News flash - We are all human beings and we live on the planet Earth.</b>

We all have our own opinions. We all view things in different ways. Our thoughts do not coincide with everyone else’s. And none of us really know the absolute truth behind any of our opinions. Although we all think that "my opinion is fact". And it may be, at least for ourselves. If you have 100% faith in something then maybe it makes it true, for you. But the guy next to you can come into the same exact scenario for himself with the exact opposite opinion of yours. In our current state as humans there is a right and left for everything. But that doesn't mean one side is right and the other wrong. All it really means is that we have free will to observe, judge and make our own decisions that are based off of our own beliefs.

And now the funny part is we get so attached to our own opinions that when someone strongly disagrees with them we feel like our sense of self is being violated. And we must defend ourselves and make the other person see the "real truth".

"Opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one, most of them stink and nobody wants to hear yours."

Seriously though people, we all need to calm down around here. It is so ridiculous to get worked up over someone else’s opinion. People believe what they believe, this has no effect on you. That is unless you let it bother you. For every opinion that you have, there is going to be someone that thinks the opposite. This is the world we live in, so accept that and chill the **** out!! :peace:

It may be comforting to believe that but it is not true.

jhns
10-01-2009, 06:59 AM
I like that the "positive" fans now think they didn't contribute to the arguing in the offseason. For one, you don't have to get into those arguments. A lot of days there were 2-3 long threads complaining and all the "great" posters stayed in those threads rather than go have their positive talk in other threads.

The other huge point is when I came here this offseason and talked about the team, a lot of you instantly started in with tons of insults and telling everyone they aren't real/good fans. Do you really think that won't start a pissing contest? Oh, but you are all the victims.

Get over yourselves.

baja
10-01-2009, 07:04 AM
I like that the "positive" fans now think they didn't contribute to the arguing in the offseason. For one, you don't have to get into those arguments. A lot of days there were 2-3 long threads complaining and all the "great" posters stayed in those threads rather than go have their positive talk in other threads.

The other huge point is when I came here this offseason and talked about the team, a lot of you instantly started in with tons of insults and telling everyone they aren't real/good fans. Do you really think that won't start a pissing contest? Oh, but you are all the victims.

Get over yourselves.

I might be the only one left that doesn't have you on ignore

jhns
10-01-2009, 07:06 AM
I might be the only one left that doesn't have you on ignore

So what do you want to talk about then?

tsiguy96
10-01-2009, 07:06 AM
I might be the only one left that doesn't have you on ignore

nope, i didnt, but just added him.

jhns
10-01-2009, 07:14 AM
nope, i didnt, but just added him.

Finally...

I get it is hard to hear that you all were part of the problem. TSI was worse than most any negative person.

TailgateNut
10-01-2009, 07:17 AM
nope, i didnt, but just added him.

Hilarious!

Eventually he'll be talking to himself. Then, and only then will he start to make sense.:~ohyah!:

bronco militia
10-01-2009, 07:35 AM
Are you guys seriously trying to make a case that any given O'mane poster knows more about managing a billion dollar NFL franchise than the people that actually do?

?

I think it's pretty clear that any NFL fan could do a better job than Al Davis

;D

baja
10-01-2009, 07:44 AM
I think it's pretty clear that any NFL fan could do a better job than Al Davis

;D

Well that ends that argument...

baja
10-01-2009, 07:46 AM
So what do you want to talk about then?

You can't see this message because you have this poster on "ignore"

Que
10-01-2009, 07:59 AM
Jesus, shut up with this already. All this "I told you so" or "can you be a fan if" reminds me of the BS in politics/capitol hill where everyone is questioning everyone else patriotism. So ghey to have to see this in football.

Bah! Need more coffee.

Dedhed
10-01-2009, 08:04 AM
Of course it is.....It just makes you that much more of an idiot for thinking you know more than people who are paid millions to manage billion dollar businesses.

Exactly. There are always going to be questions about what an organization does, and it's laughable to think that anyone on this board is in a better position to determine what to do than the people who actually have the information and experience to make those decisions.

Broncomutt
10-01-2009, 08:05 AM
Depends:

1) Do you want the coach fired before he has ever fielded a team in a meaningful game?

2) Do you show up at training camp and boo the new QB when he throws an incomplete pass?

3) Do you get mad when the Broncos win because it made all your naysaying look foolish?

4) Do you consider McDaniels a Patriot and always a Patriot no matter what happens, good or bad?

If you can answer yes to any of these questions, then yeah, your not the type of fan the organization wants. Wouldn't want to sit next to you at a game either.

If you can say none of these apply to you, then disagree all you like, I got no problem with that. I was disagreeing with the organization the past few years when I was calling for Shanny's head, so I can't be hypocritical in that sense.

Pretty simple.

BroncoBuff
10-01-2009, 08:10 AM
yes. that is different then coming on here and calling people who agree with the team homers and idiots because we have better **** to do than whine about how bad they will be. this is ENTERTAINMENT, it is here for us to enjoy, why is yelling and screaming all the time about how bad they will be make it fun for you at all?
You lose, tsiguy.

In fact, it still says ZERO votes for you and Popps as of 8 am

You guys should at least have the courage to vote.

BroncoBuff
10-01-2009, 08:14 AM
As long as it's understood that there is a clear difference between "disagreeing with decisions" and actively bashing the team by trolling the board and defacing our organization.

Critical analysis is one thing. Aids cacti up Bowlen's gutless ass is another.

"Real fan" is a subjective term. But, a troll is a troll.

But, those mouthy doom-preachers are a little quiet lately.

"Subjective term" my ass.

You lose, mouthy little tough guy. Live with that.

And SoCalBronco is twice the fan you'll ever be ;D

Mr. Elway
10-01-2009, 08:15 AM
It's fine to disagree, but if you find yourself siding with Broncofan7 a lot, it could be time to think about switching sides.

Garcia Bronco
10-01-2009, 08:17 AM
The answer is no. Either you are on the bandwagon or not.

oubronco
10-01-2009, 08:20 AM
yes. That is different then coming on here and calling people who agree with the team homers and idiots because we have better **** to do than whine about how bad they will be. This is entertainment, it is here for us to enjoy, why is yelling and screaming all the time about how bad they will be make it fun for you at all?

Being a fan of the team does not hope for failure so you see the head coach fail and get fired, nor is it being ridiculous like jhns and trying to downplay every win we get by saying it wasnt good enough becasue teh teams we beat werent good enough. Its ****ing stupid, sit back and try to enjoy it, at the end of the day you cannot change anything. Leave that to the professionals, not the armchair gms such as yourself.

amen brotha

Dedhed
10-01-2009, 08:20 AM
Morons get into positions they don't deserve all the time. Your worldview is way too simple.

You think there aren't fans out there that don't know how to run the Lions or Knicks or Orioles better than they have been run?
This is just the idiocy we're talking about. Of course there are people who didn't earn their places in the world, but if you think there are fans flaming management on internet message boards who are capable of turning those franchises around, you're just delusional, period.

Th\e kinds of people who know that when the stakes are high, you make decisions that sometimes pan out and sometimes flop. They would not be the ones calling Bowlen a gutless drunk before there was ever a product to judge. And Jimmy from the hood who thinks he's got all the Knicks' problems figured out wouldn't be Jimmy from the hood if he had an ounce of management talent.

You're just whistling dixie here.

baja
10-01-2009, 08:24 AM
Depends:

1) Do you want the coach fired before he has ever fielded a team in a meaningful game?

2) Do you show up at training camp and boo the new QB when he throws an incomplete pass?

3) Do you get mad when the Broncos win because it made all your naysaying look foolish?

4) Do you consider McDaniels a Patriot and always a Patriot no matter what happens, good or bad?

If you can answer yes to any of these questions, then yeah, your not the type of fan the organization wants. Wouldn't want to sit next to you at a game either.

If you can say none of these apply to you, then disagree all you like, I got no problem with that. I was disagreeing with the organization the past few years when I was calling for Shanny's head, so I can't be hypocritical in that sense.

Pretty simple.

Number 4 is so insane no fan would ever say that, name one poster that would make such a ridiculous statement.

baja
10-01-2009, 08:28 AM
"Subjective term" my ass.

You lose, mouthy little tough guy. Live with that.

<b>And SoCalBronco is twice the fan you'll ever be ;D

Isn't this what you are upset about and accusing the wait and see crowd of be guilty of?

TonyR
10-01-2009, 08:30 AM
Number 4 is so insane no fan would ever say that, name one poster that would make such a ridiculous statement.

Hmm, I wonder if she'll take the bait.

TonyR
10-01-2009, 08:31 AM
Isn't this what you are upset about and accusing the wait and see crowd of be guilty of?

He's sticking with the "people who spend more $ on the Broncos are better fans" argument, apparently.

BroncoBuff
10-01-2009, 08:34 AM
It's pretty simple:
Damn right it's simple. Massive rep for boiling down the entire offseason maelstrom to a simple yes-no question.

Most of us knew the Brownshirt thought police like tsi and Popps were forcing an angry, intolerant attitude on the rest of us.

Popps and tsi ... you guys should at least have the courage to vote. Thus far just Garcia Bronco is on your side, and I think he's just kidding.

BroncoBuff
10-01-2009, 08:37 AM
Isn't this what you are upset about and accusing the wait and see crowd of be guilty of?
LOL .... hahaha yes it is, you got me there, sheriff.

Okay, I'll repeat my long-standing mantra:

We are ALL Broncos fans, none better than another.
(Except tailgatenut gets extra points)

baja
10-01-2009, 08:38 AM
Hey How about them Cowboys>>>>>

BroncoBuff
10-01-2009, 08:53 AM
Hmm, I wonder if she'll take the bait.

You should vote TonyR ... so far only Garcia Bronco is on your side.

oubronco
10-01-2009, 08:54 AM
Hey How about them Cowboys>>>>>

**** the Cowpies

GoBroncos DownUnder
10-01-2009, 09:17 AM
Never have a conversation/argument on this site, that you wouldn't have at a bar in real life.
Works for me! ;)

HAT
10-01-2009, 09:34 AM
Morons get into positions they don't deserve all the time. Your worldview is way too simple.

Indeed they do. As in most walks of life, there are superstars and also rans in any given field. However, the world's worst medical doctor is still a better doctor than a frickin' car mechanic that reads medical journals & websites.

You think there aren't fans out there that don't know how to run the Lions or Knicks or Orioles better than they have been run?

I think I've made it pretty clear that that is precisely what I think. If they could, they would.



:thumbs:

TailgateNut
10-01-2009, 09:34 AM
LOL .... hahaha yes it is, you got me there, sheriff.

Okay, I'll repeat my long-standing mantra:

We are ALL Broncos fans, none better than another.
(Except tailgatenut gets extra points)

Give it a ****ing break.

I don't know if you can recall the thread I started years ago regarding the respect I have for fans who don't live in the vicinity. Those who can't attend games and in some instances don't have constant access/ exposure to the Team.

This whole argument is due comments made by the "NO WAY/BIGGEST MISTAKE EVER" crowd prior to ever seeing the product on the field. (in many instances before pre-season, and then prior to the start of regular season).

HAT
10-01-2009, 09:36 AM
I think it's pretty clear that any NFL fan could do a better job than Al Davis

;D

Senility doesn't count! :raidersux

tsiguy96
10-01-2009, 09:37 AM
You lose, tsiguy.

In fact, it still says ZERO votes for you and Popps as of 8 am

You guys should at least have the courage to vote.

umm, what has zero votes?

tsiguy96
10-01-2009, 09:39 AM
Damn right it's simple. Massive rep for boiling down the entire offseason maelstrom to a simple yes-no question.

Most of us knew the Brownshirt thought police like tsi and Popps were forcing an angry, intolerant attitude on the rest of us.

Popps and tsi ... you guys should at least have the courage to vote. Thus far just Garcia Bronco is on your side, and I think he's just kidding.

ohh i see now. you truely are a huge weiner man. go read my post, i already siad its ok to not agree with **** they do, but to come here and bitch and moan til everyone knows that the team is gonna fail because you dont agree with it is ****ing stupid.

TonyR
10-01-2009, 09:53 AM
You should vote TonyR ... so far only Garcia Bronco is on your side.

I did, in fact prior to your post suggesting that I do. But you're widely missing the larger point if you think it's as simple as yes or no. But at the same time it's really not that big of a deal.

Irish Stout
10-01-2009, 10:20 AM
Once upon a time a lot of people came on here and said the sky was falling.

Then, a lot of people came on here and said that the sky fell and that there was no way McD was ever going to put it back up again. These were the Chicken Littles.

Then a few people disagreed and said the sky appeared to be falling, but we think it didn't actually fall because McD will/has built a good support structure that will keep that sky up there and might even raise it a little higher. These were the Ignorant Homers.

A handful of people said: The homers and chickens both have valid points, but we just can't decide yet, lets wait. These were the pragmatists.

In the meantime, the Chickens and the Homers began to fight with the Chickens calling the Homers idiots, and determining the word Homer was in and of itself an insult. The Homers called the Chickens idiots (and used bad words that meant chicken and female genetalia), and that they were clueless as to what it actually took to build a sky and that it could be done in a different fashion than before. The pragmatists said you're both looney, lets wait and see what happens with the sky.

Now, the chickens and the pragmatists say: the sky looks to be "ok" but we're still not sure yet, lets wait and see. The Homers say: Told you so. And the atitudes of the Homers piss of the chickens and the pragmatists, which in turn pisses of the Homers.

One day there will be a meteor threatening the sky and the chickens, homers and pragmatists will all band together and live happily ever after. The end.

TonyR
10-01-2009, 10:26 AM
Let's just say we're all equal fans, and move on...

If it makes you feel any better, Buff, I've never questioned your fanhood. You're clearly a Bronco fan and have generally been very fair and reasonable. I don't think I've been as bothered by your occasional negativity as I have by your frequent support for some of the overly negative posters over the perhaps overly positive posters. As I've said many times in many ways, I have no problem with the criticism or even many of the negative leaning arguments. I do have a problem with a prevailing and incessant cynicism that many here display.

Irish Stout
10-01-2009, 10:33 AM
If it makes you feel any better, Buff, I've never questioned your fanhood. You're clearly a Bronco fan and have generally been very fair and reasonable. I don't think I've been as bothered by your occasional negativity as I have by your frequent support for some of the overly negative posters over the perhaps overly positive posters. As I've said many times in many ways, I have no problem with the criticism or even many of the negative leaning arguments. I do have a problem with a prevailing and incessant cynicism than many here display.

Best post ever!

Thats exactly it! Whether you were pro or con the McDregime adn the Cutler trade - too many people on either side of that fence just became obnoxious about how there side was correct... and some are still doing it.

Irish Stout
10-01-2009, 10:36 AM
ohh i see now. you truely are a huge weiner man. go read my post, i already siad its ok to not agree with **** they do, but to come here and b**** and moan til everyone knows that the team is gonna fail because you dont agree with it is ****ing stupid.

tsiguy - Though for the most part I have seen eye to eye with your viewpoint on the whole situation, you were constantly berating people who were negative.... so much so that you yourself were viewed as a very negative poster. I think you've since then established yourself as a positive and valuable poster. Please don't let others drag you into the mode of b itching about people b itching about the team.

McBuff - I can't figure your angle, but I have the feeling you're trying to put everyone on a real long guilt trip... either that or you're just trying to bait the most vocal early pro-McD posters into acting like a-holes. Whatever it is, is it really necessary?

EVERYONE ELSE WHO IS CREATING THREADS TITLED: McD HATER LIST or CREATING POLLS ASKING WHO CAN BE REAL FANS ARE JUST TRYING TO CONTINUE ADDING FUEL TO A FIRE THAT REALLY SHOULD BE PUT OUT.

colonelbeef
10-01-2009, 11:13 AM
:thumbs:

Matt Millen is a walking, breathing example of how very wrong you are.

BroncoBuff
10-01-2009, 12:33 PM
McBuff - I can't figure your angle, but I have the feeling you're trying to put everyone on a real long guilt trip...
Maybe, but there's plenty of guilt to go around.

TonyR really nailed me there , on the button ... I am more supportive of the fringe posters than my own opinions would indicate. Probably as a push-back to the (what I perceived to be) holier-than-thou posters who (seemed to say) that if you don't support the moves and predict success, you're not a fan. We should havwe (past tense) felt some guilt, you guys should have (past tense) felt some guilt.

My only real b**** was losing Jay ... I still love the dumb bastard, can't help it. But I love the Broncos more. ;D

SportinOne
10-01-2009, 12:36 PM
Once upon a time a lot of people came on here and said the sky was falling.

Then, a lot of people came on here and said that the sky fell and that there was no way McD was ever going to put it back up again. These were the Chicken Littles.

Then a few people disagreed and said the sky appeared to be falling, but we think it didn't actually fall because McD will/has built a good support structure that will keep that sky up there and might even raise it a little higher. These were the Ignorant Homers.

A handful of people said: The homers and chickens both have valid points, but we just can't decide yet, lets wait. These were the pragmatists.

In the meantime, the Chickens and the Homers began to fight with the Chickens calling the Homers idiots, and determining the word Homer was in and of itself an insult. The Homers called the Chickens idiots (and used bad words that meant chicken and female genetalia), and that they were clueless as to what it actually took to build a sky and that it could be done in a different fashion than before. The pragmatists said you're both looney, lets wait and see what happens with the sky.

Now, the chickens and the pragmatists say: the sky looks to be "ok" but we're still not sure yet, lets wait and see. The Homers say: Told you so. And the atitudes of the Homers piss of the chickens and the pragmatists, which in turn pisses of the Homers.

One day there will be a meteor threatening the sky and the chickens, homers and pragmatists will all band together and live happily ever after. The end.

Excellent post. I - wait, hang on while I rep you - don't think it gets any better than that.

TonyR
10-01-2009, 12:45 PM
My only real b**** was losing Jay ... I still love the dumb bastard, can't help it. But I love the Broncos more. ;D

And to your credit from the beginning you've been honest and on the record about this and your belief that Bowlen screwed up by giving McD too much power. Both are valid positions. But, at the risk of sounding like a broken record (assuming the youngsters here know what a record is), some people ride such arguments like a wave they can't get off of and have to be pressed to say something positive about the team or that perphaps they were wrong. Again, you're not one of them but you do defend them!

SportinOne
10-01-2009, 12:47 PM
Another thing to clear up... Disagreeing with a move only to see that move become successful should not result in someone having to "eat crow."

Say I go to a casino with a friend, and immediately after getting to the casino he runs over to the roulette table and puts every penny he has, to his name, on black. Let's say that I find this to be a very stupid move. Am I going to think that move was any less stupid if he wins?

tsiguy96
10-01-2009, 12:49 PM
Another thing to clear up... Disagreeing with a move only to see that move become successful should not result in someone having to "eat crow."

Say I go to a casino with a friend, and immediately after getting to the casino he runs over to the roulette table and puts every penny he has, to his name, on black. Let's say that I find this to be a very stupid move. Am I going to think that move was any less stupid if he wins?

nope, but if you say "you ****ing idiot you are gonna fail and youre life is gonna be over!" then he happens to win, you will look stupid.

SportinOne
10-01-2009, 12:57 PM
nope, but if you say "you ****ing idiot you are gonna fail and youre life is gonna be over!" then he happens to win, you will look stupid.

True. However, if my friend continues to make similar decisions, eventually it will backfire.

Law of averages.

HAT
10-01-2009, 01:08 PM
Matt Millen is a walking, breathing example of how very wrong you are.

Riiiiiiiiiight.....I'm sure ownership was scouring Lions message boards when looking for his replacement.

Those that can, do. Those that can't, talk about it.

DBroncos4life
10-01-2009, 01:11 PM
Riiiiiiiiiight.....I'm sure ownership was scouring Lions message boards when looking for his replacement.

Those that can, do. Those that can't, talk about it.

So in your opinion he had more then enough qualifications to be a NFL GM even though he had no prior player development or front office experience? Hell he was a broadcaster prior to taking this job. Should Bob Costas run a NFL team?

BroncoBuff
10-01-2009, 01:16 PM
Now, the chickens and the pragmatists say: the sky looks to be "ok" but we're still not sure yet, lets wait and see. The Homers say: Told you so. And the atitudes of the Homers piss of the chickens and the pragmatists, which in turn pisses of the Homers.

One day there will be a meteor threatening the sky and the chickens, homers and pragmatists will all band together and live happily ever after. The end.

Great post ... wasnt there an old "Outer Limits" episode like that? Some scientist turned himself into a scary alien to unite the world's warring peoples?

http://www.davidmccallumfansonline.com/starlog2.jpg

HAT
10-01-2009, 01:18 PM
So in your opinion he had more then enough qualifications to be a NFL GM even though he had no prior player development or front office experience? Hell he was a broadcaster prior to taking this job. Should Bob Costas run a NFL team?

My opinion is clearly stated in post #2.

It is possible to be a "good fan" (whatever that is?) while disagreeing with moves they make. The main premise of this thread (which I voted yes on)


However, one would also be an idiot for thinking they know more about running a billion dollar NFL franchise than those that are actually doing it.

I'm not saying everyone running a team is a genius. As I've already stated, any industry has their studs and their duds. Even outright dimwits like Millen. But even the duds are infinitely more qualified than any NFL message board poster.

BroncoBuff
10-01-2009, 01:20 PM
The worst part about this schism is that even if you say something nice about a poster "on the other side." it sounds like sarcasm. All week I've been mentioning what a great fan and friend Leo (TailegateNut) is ... but because of the wars in here, he thought I was being sarcastic ... finally this morning he reps me, "Enough of your superfan bull***!"

I WAS SERIOUS LEO! You ARE a superfan ;D

DBroncos4life
10-01-2009, 01:20 PM
Great post ... wasnt there an old "Outer Limits" episode like that? Some scientist turned himself into a scary alien to unite the world's warring peoples?

http://www.davidmccallumfansonline.com/starlog2.jpg

Damn aliens, they are always stealing the hot "white" chicks with there big brains. First it was "blacks" with there big you know...now this.





j/k people :)

Rohirrim
10-01-2009, 01:21 PM
Great post ... wasnt there an old "Outer Limits" episode like that? Some scientist turned himself into a scary alien to unite the world's warring peoples?

http://www.davidmccallumfansonline.com/starlog2.jpg

Yes. He named it "Dortoh." ;D

BroncoBuff
10-01-2009, 01:21 PM
I vote Dorton turn himself into an alien to unite everyone in fear.

BroncoBuff
10-01-2009, 01:22 PM
Yes. He named it "Dortoh." ;D

Now THAT's just funny .... I made my Dortoh post before I saw yours ROFL!

Vegas_Bronco
10-01-2009, 01:22 PM
I disagree with my wife all the time, but I'm still a huge fan of hers!

BroncoInSkinland
10-01-2009, 01:28 PM
wow, D + orton = dorton = dortoh - ' ? Maybe he is an idiot savant and saw all this coming. I don't think anything is any clearer now though...

HAT
10-01-2009, 01:32 PM
Matt Millen is a walking, breathing example of how very wrong you are.

Beef, I don't know what you do for a living but I'm guessing you would gladly change careers for an opportunity to manage an NFL club.

Pick whichever team you currently think has the WORST management in the NFL. Give them a call and tell them that you would like to submit your resume for when their current idiots get walking papers.

Tell them you are a really big fan that follows the team year round, reads about college players on the 'net, watches all of the games, studies salary cap issues online, posts on 4 of their team message boards, already runs the team in franchise mode on Madden, and follows all of their local reporters on Twitter.

What owner wouldn't jump at the chance to replace an idiot GM with a super fan of thoise credentials?

HAT
10-01-2009, 01:33 PM
I disagree with my wife all the time, but I'm still a huge fan of hers!

:notworthy

tsiguy96
10-01-2009, 03:57 PM
True. However, if my friend continues to make similar decisions, eventually it will backfire.

Law of averages.

so wait until you see whether mcdaniels rolls black or not before calling this season a failure :D

Rock Chalk
10-01-2009, 04:09 PM
I might be the only one left that doesn't have you on ignore

Why you quoting him then? If you know everyone has him on ignore, do everyone else a favor and just not quote him.

Thanks.

Rock Chalk
10-01-2009, 04:11 PM
So in your opinion he had more then enough qualifications to be a NFL GM even though he had no prior player development or front office experience? Hell he was a broadcaster prior to taking this job. Should Bob Costas run a NFL team?

Not that I agree with HAT over there but Millen has been around football his whole life, played it, studied it, watched game film.

That in and of itself makes him vastly more qualified than you will ever be.

Rock Chalk
10-01-2009, 04:17 PM
I think HAT's point is, and while he could be wrong it is a valid point, is that people who get GM and HC jobs have far more qualifications than anyone on any message board no matter what the know-it-alls think. Neither is an easy job and. Every coach and GM has missed on players over-rating or under-rating.

Popps
10-01-2009, 04:18 PM
Again, it's just a silly poll. Of course it's possible to be critical and remain a fan.

Problem is, that's not what caused the friction around here. Plenty of intelligent posters took up opposition to some of our moves and remained fans through the process. Others became full-time spammers, and bashers that rivaled anything we've seen from other teams.

So, the poll is sort of asking if water is wet. Sure. Water's wet. No one ever said it wasn't.

Create a new poll and ask if real fans abandon ship before a game has been played... or **** on a great 25 year owner because of one decision. (That STILL may turn out to be a good one.) Do real fans quit posting on the team's board when the team starts winning? Do real fans incessantly preach gloom and doom and **** on any hopes to the contrary?

You've got a lot of angry people here. A lot of mouthy b****es pushed their chips all in on the franchise being ****ed. Turns out, it's not... and now those posters are spinning to put the best face on their silly behavior that they can.

Are these trolls and bashers still fans? Hey, it's all subjective. If a mother beats her kids... she's still a mom, right? Is she a good one?

listopencil
10-01-2009, 04:20 PM
49ers and Raiders...in fact during the Broncos humiliating 55-10 loss to 49ers, elway as he left field was grabbed by Millen, who told him to keep his head up. I'm sure it was easier said than done

There you go. I was wondering if anyone remembered. From his Wiki page:

"Prior to his management affiliation with the Detroit Lions, Millen was a professional football linebacker for the Oakland Raiders, the San Francisco 49ers and the Washington Redskins of the NFL. In Millen's 12-year NFL playing career, he played on four Super Bowl-winning teams. Millen won a Super Bowl ring with each of the three teams for which he played."

Hat asked TJ what was stopping him from being a GM. Implying that if he was really capable of making better decisions than Millen then he would be given the opportunity to do so. This is a fairly ignorant "take" considering that Millen got his opportunity due to the NFL Good Ol' Boy system, similar to Howard Cossel's "Jockocracy" in sports journalism. No wonder so many people have Hat on ignore. He's kind of stupid.

gunns
10-01-2009, 04:38 PM
yes. that is different then coming on here and calling people who agree with the team homers and idiots because we have better **** to do than whine about how bad they will be. this is ENTERTAINMENT, it is here for us to enjoy, why is yelling and screaming all the time about how bad they will be make it fun for you at all?

being a fan of the team does not HOPE for failure so you see the head coach fail and get fired, nor is it being ridiculous like jhns and trying to downplay every win we get by saying it wasnt good enough becasue teh teams we beat werent good enough. its ****ing stupid, sit back and try to enjoy it, at the end of the day you cannot change anything. leave that to the professionals, not the armchair GMs such as yourself.

Wow, is all that in the fan handbook?

TonyR
10-01-2009, 04:41 PM
Do real fans quit posting on the team's board when the team starts winning? Do real fans incessantly preach gloom and doom and **** on any hopes to the contrary?

This has me puzzled as well. Some of these people stopped posting, or now post less, seemingly because the coach and team they ripped all offseason and preseason are doing better than expected? Really? In fact one of this forum's mods doesn't seem to post any more, and another only comes along occasionally to defend herself or Jay Cutler. This place is mildly dysfunctional, no?


Are these trolls and bashers still fans? Hey, it's all subjective. If a mother beats her kids... she's still a mom, right? Is she a good one?

And this is an interesting analogy.

gunns
10-01-2009, 04:51 PM
ohh i see now. you truely are a huge weiner man. go read my post, i already siad its ok to not agree with **** they do, but to come here and b**** and moan til everyone knows that the team is gonna fail because you dont agree with it is ****ing stupid.

Huge weiner man? :rofl:

From here on out BB shall be known as Huge Weiner Man!

tsiguy96
10-01-2009, 04:51 PM
you guys get more and more ridiculous every single time you talk. buff thinks that we are saying that fans arent allowed to criticize the team when clearly every singel person in this thread has said they can and should, but dont be ****ing stupid about it and act like its the end of the world and the team will fail because its not being run how you want it to.

eltheway is the same, apparently its correct for you morons to not only predict and hope for failure before the season starts, but to make fun of people who still cheer for this team. good one.

BroncoBuff
10-01-2009, 04:53 PM
Again, it's just a silly poll. Of course it's possible to be critical and remain a fan.

Flip-flop!

http://beaut.ie/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/Thai-Flip-Flop.jpg http://internetservices.readingeagle.com/blog/fashion/Crocs%20Flip%20Flop.jpg
(festive colors, too!)


Problem is, that's not what caused the friction around here. Plenty of intelligent posters took up opposition to some of our moves and remained fans through the process. Others became full-time spammers, and bashers that rivaled anything we've seen from other teams.

So, the poll is sort of asking if water is wet. Sure. Water's wet. No one ever said it wasn't. Create a new poll and ask if real fans abandon ship before a game has been played... or **** on a great 25 year owner because of one decision. (That STILL may turn out to be a good one.) Do real fans quit posting on the team's board when the team starts winning? Do real fans incessantly preach gloom and doom and **** on any hopes to the contrary?

You've got a lot of angry people here. A lot of mouthy b****es pushed their chips all in on the franchise being ****ed. Turns out, it's not... and now those posters are spinning to put the best face on their silly behavior that they can.

Are these trolls and bashers still fans? Hey, it's all subjective. If a mother beats her kids... she's still a mom, right? Is she a good one?

Spin all you like there pudding boy, you lost. By a mile Hilarious!

gunns
10-01-2009, 04:55 PM
Not that I agree with HAT over there but Millen has been around football his whole life, played it, studied it, watched game film.

That in and of itself makes him vastly more qualified than you will ever be.

He knew about playing it, he did not know about running it.

baja
10-01-2009, 04:56 PM
Why you quoting him then? If you know everyone has him on ignore, do everyone else a favor and just not quote him.

Thanks.

Some of them are just too good to miss...

HAT
10-01-2009, 04:56 PM
Hat asked TJ what was stopping him from being a GM. Implying that if he was really capable of making better decisions than Millen then he would be given the opportunity to do so.

Professional sports front offices are littered from top to bottom with people who did not benefit from good ol' boy networks or nepotism of any kind.

Like any industry, those at the lower levels are earning their stripes, paying their dues and learning what it takes to become qualified enough to get to the top. I got news for ya....They ain't surfing Scouts Inc, Team boards, etc.

You guys are acting like I said an average fan COULDN'T go that route. If you had the drive and the talent....you could.

By getting a Master's in business and/or sports Mgt, constantly networking yourself to get that 1st foot in the door, and completely immersing yourself in that world while getting promoted from one sh!tty job to the next for a decade or so until someone notices you is too much work for most. Far easier to spend some time on-line and watching games and then proclaim "Hey, I could do that!" ROFL!


I gotta go read webMD for a while so I can proclaim myself ready to run Johns Hopkins. :wiggle:

colonelbeef
10-01-2009, 04:56 PM
My opinion is clearly stated in post #2.

It is possible to be a "good fan" (whatever that is?) while disagreeing with moves they make. The main premise of this thread (which I voted yes on)


However, one would also be an idiot for thinking they know more about running a billion dollar NFL franchise than those that are actually doing it.

I'm not saying everyone running a team is a genius. As I've already stated, any industry has their studs and their duds. Even outright dimwits like Millen. But even the duds are infinitely more qualified than any NFL message board poster.

100% false. If you were right, there would never be innovation- hey, there are already people (IBM) doing it and making billions in the process- why do you think you can do it better, Michael Dell?

Oh wait, you can. And you did.

Many many people not involved in the NFL directly have opinions that are valid, if not plainly more accurate than those in positions to actually make decisions for franchises. Just because they have the job doesn't necessarily mean that they deserve to be there.

gunns
10-01-2009, 04:59 PM
You've got a lot of angry people here. A lot of mouthy b****es pushed their chips all in on the franchise being ****ed. Turns out, it's not... and now those posters are spinning to put the best face on their silly behavior that they can.

Are these trolls and bashers still fans? Hey, it's all subjective. If a mother beats her kids... she's still a mom, right? Is she a good one?

You've got a lot of angry people here because you and some others took it upon themselves to determine who is a fan and who isn't. Oh you profess that isn't the case but it is. And regardless of how many times you are told that, you guys just don't get it.

As far as mom goes, someone might have a different definition of "beats" and look at it as discipline. Who's right? And she's a good mom then.

BroncoBuff
10-01-2009, 05:02 PM
You've got a lot of angry people here because you and some others took it upon themselves to determine who is a fan and who isn't. Oh you profess that isn't the case but it is. And regardless of how many times you are told that, you guys just don't get it.

As far as mom goes, someone might have a different definition of "beats" and look at it as discipline. Who's right? And she's a good mom then.

There she is .... MASSIVE rep girlfriend!

HAT
10-01-2009, 05:05 PM
100% false. If you were right, there would never be innovation- hey, there are already people (IBM) doing it and making billions in the process- why do you think you can do it better, Michael Dell?

Oh wait, you can. And you did.


Exactly. See my post just above yours. The innovators aren't sitting around being armchair GM's, HC's, CEO's, politicians, etc.

They get out and DO IT! Whatever it takes.

There are plenty of smart people with valid opinions on your average political message board....Does that make them qualified to run for President?

baja
10-01-2009, 05:09 PM
Hey I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more.

colonelbeef
10-01-2009, 05:14 PM
Exactly. See my post just above yours. The innovators aren't sitting around being armchair GM's, HC's, CEO's, politicians, etc.

They get out and DO IT! Whatever it takes.

There are plenty of smart people with valid opinions on your average political message board....Does that make them qualified to run for President?

they get out and become the GM of a pro football franchise?

The point is that there are plenty of people smart enough to make observations without having to be directly involved, particularly in sports, where every transaction and movement is out on the table for everyone to see.

It's the reason people regularly do come into new situations and do better than their predecessor.

You are correct, there are plenty of smart people who are qualified to make observations on our politicians- many would in fact be qualified, even overqualified, but for whatever reason they are not directly involved. Doesn't make their opinion any less valid.

Same applies to pro sports. I don't have to be the owner of the Jets or GM of the Patriots to know that the Lions drafting WRs in the first round 3 years in a row was colossally stupid. Guess what?!? That has proven to be the correct observation, and yet, the managers of a pro football franchise went ahead and made that mistake- people paid millions of dollars to manage a billion dollar team! And I'm in real estate, go figure!

gunns
10-01-2009, 05:32 PM
you guys get more and more ridiculous every single time you talk. buff thinks that we are saying that fans arent allowed to criticize the team when clearly every singel person in this thread has said they can and should, but dont be ****ing stupid about it and act like its the end of the world and the team will fail because its not being run how you want it to.

eltheway is the same, apparently its correct for you morons to not only predict and hope for failure before the season starts, but to make fun of people who still cheer for this team. good one.

See, there's the problem right there. I have never predicted anything, I never do, I have never posted anything that even hinted at me hoping for failure of the Broncos, McD, Orton, not even Cutler. Yet you label me and many others because we don't agree with you and your rose colored glasses. I've been through the Broncos making bad decisions like hiring Wade Phillips, picking up Tommy Maddox, Dale Carter, etc, and the early 70's when the team was atrocious and I have NEVER stopped cheering for this team. And some little pipsqueak is going to label me something I'm not and he doesn't even have proof I am, to make himself look right? You are so ****ing full of yourself and you know what YOU ARE WRONG.

HAT
10-01-2009, 05:35 PM
Same applies to pro sports. I don't have to be the owner of the Jets or GM of the Patriots to know that the Lions drafting WRs in the first round 3 years in a row was colossally stupid. Guess what?!? That has proven to be the correct observation, and yet, the managers of a pro football franchise went ahead and made that mistake

This has become such a clusterfucl< that we are now arguing the same point.

Of course that has proven to be the correct observation. Ryan Leaf was a bust, Denver shouldn't have signed Travis Henry, 32 GM's passed on Tom Brady, TD, etc.

We are not cherry picking specific examples of hindsight here. We are talking about if it's okay to disagree with a team's decisions and still be a fan. The answer is a resounding yes.

On any given major decision, chances are 50% of us fans will be right and 50% will be wrong. The ones that were proved to be right are still idiots if they think that qualifies them to be a GM, yes?

Relax and have fun people...Drink beer, watch the games, talk about them here, etc. We are fans and all have opinions on team issues one way or another....Don't take it so serious that you actually become so disillusioned that you think you actually could manage the franchise better.

IHaveALight
10-01-2009, 06:00 PM
It may be comforting to believe that but it is not true.

Actually I would find it more comforting to know that we aren’t all human. I think aliens would be far more evolved then us and therefore live in a greater conscience then us and it would be much more peaceful in their heads then it is in ours. Maybe they could teach me a thing or two...

baja
10-01-2009, 06:19 PM
Actually I would find it more comforting to know that we aren’t all human. I think aliens would be far more evolved then us and therefore live in a greater conscience then us and it would be much more peaceful in their heads then it is in ours. Maybe they could teach me a thing or two...

The next full moon peaks on Saturday, October 3 at 11:10 PM PDT at 11º Libra-Aries. The Sun in Libra illuminates where we are out of balance; the Moon in Aries highlights where we must be courageous and try something new. How else can Creation/God/the Universe evolve?

NASA spacecraft are currently measuring record-high levels of cosmic rays*; this increased download of electromagnetic energy is affecting each of us, propelling our evolution. These are challenging times for our bodies and psyches. Humanity — and the Earth on which we live — is, in essence, experiencing a huge upgrade; new operating systems and programs are being installed in the midst of our daily lives. How can we not only survive, but thrive in the meantime?

Venus, the traditional ruler of Libra, illuminates the way— the wisdom of the heart. Named for the Goddess of Love and Beauty, Venus represents what opens our hearts (and, subsequently, our minds) to a more expanded and unified experience of life. Mystics throughout the ages, as well as those living close to nature, and anyone who has had a peak experience, know what modern science is now able to prove--that the heart has a powerful, innate intelligence, which is in constant communication with the brain and every cell in the body--neurologically (via nerve impulses), biochemically (via hormones and neurotransmitters), and biophysically (via pressure waves). On a more subtle but no less powerful level, it has been found that the heart generates an electromagnetic force field thousands of times stronger than that of the brain, emitting waveforms which can be detected up to ten feet away and potentially around the world. For more on this, read Renee A. Levi’s fascinating article, “The Sentient Heart: Messages for Life,” at: www.collectivewisdominitiative.org/papers/levi_sentient.htm and Dr. David Hawkin’s extraordinary book, Power Versus Force.

When our hearts are open, we know what to do. We see that we are creators, not victims, and that our inner guidance steers us in the direction which is right for us. Shortly after this Full Moon’s peak, Venus will in be aspect to all of the outer planets, signaling our readiness to receive important insights and directives. Pay special attention to what your heart is telling you when Venus opposes Uranus on October 9, conjuncts Saturn on October 13, and squares Pluto on October 15. Watch for more revelations and prods from the universe around October 8, when the Sun squares the July 7 eclipse degree (15° Cancer), and around October 15, when Mars conjoins the July 21 eclipse degree (29° Cancer). These aspects reveal what matters most to us; they nudge us to eliminate what numbs and distracts us from our soul intentions.

edit: This is from a friend she is a quite gifted astrologer

BroncoBuff
10-01-2009, 06:46 PM
This has me puzzled as well. Some of these people stopped posting, or now post less, seemingly because the coach and team they ripped all offseason and preseason are doing better than expected? Really?
You got it backwards there, chief. Like Flip-Popps has said, the mopey mafia have "driven the good posters away."

He's partly right ... the poster's who've left over the past few months are predominantly blue-sky Jay-haters, purportedly "fed up with the negativity." The only dissenting posters who've left are footsteps and SoCal - footsteps for a business startup he's been working toward for years (trust me), and SoCal who's posting more elsewhere now, and who (like me) is still a fan of Jay, and I'm guessing, like me, found the 800+ post "I told you so" thread during Jay's meltdown against Green Bay pretty sad. It's a weak mind that has to bash our former QB to feel better about itself.

Also, some excellent posters including Clockwork Orange (thankfully), have returned. His takes have been a welcome re-addition.

BroncoBuff
10-01-2009, 06:55 PM
yes. that is different then coming on here and calling people who agree with the team homers and idiots because we have better **** to do than whine about how bad they will be. this is ENTERTAINMENT, it is here for us to enjoy, why is yelling and screaming all the time about how bad they will be make it fun for you at all?
You're wrong there ... almost no one would disagree with that the Blue-sky crowd has been far more hostile and attacking than the Dissenters.

I admit I complained LOUD and LONG for a couple months there, but rarely went out of my way to attack those who liked the team's direction. In fact, the Dissenters - however much we whined - were 90% on the defensive from the Blue-sky crowd.

That doesn't mean we're "better," I'm sure you guys got pretty sick of hearing the complaints ... but it would've been nice to give the Dissenters the time and space to come around on their own terms.

BroncoBuff
10-01-2009, 06:58 PM
Huge weiner man? :rofl:

From here on out BB shall be known as Huge Weiner Man!

Actually before now, too ;D

baja
10-01-2009, 07:13 PM
You're wrong there ... almost no one would disagree with that the Blue-sky crowd has been far more hostile and attacking than the Dissenters.

I admit I complained LOUD and LONG for a couple months there, but rarely went out of my way to attack those who liked the team's direction. In fact, the Dissenters - however much we whined - were 90% on the defensive from the Blue-sky crowd.

That doesn't mean we're "better," I'm sure you guys got pretty sick of hearing the complaints ... <b>but it would've been nice to give the Dissenters the time and space to come around on their own terms.

What'da you talking about you had a couple of weeks what'da ya want it's football. ;D

broncogary
10-01-2009, 07:29 PM
You got it backwards there, chief. Like Flip-Popps has said, the mopey mafia have "driven the good posters away."

He's partly right ... the poster's who've left over the past few months are predominantly blue-sky Jay-haters, purportedly "fed up with the negativity." The only dissenting posters who've left are footsteps and SoCal - footsteps for a business startup he's been working toward for years (trust me), and SoCal who's posting more elsewhere now, and who (like me) is still a fan of Jay, and I'm guessing, like me, found the 800+ post "I told you so" thread during Jay's meltdown against Green Bay pretty sad. It's a weak mind that has to bash our former QB to feel better about itself.

Also, some excellent posters including Clockwork Orange (thankfully), have returned. His takes have been a welcome re-addition.

Hold on just a second there, buddy boy. I thought it was Florida Bronco's job to decide who was a good poster. :wiggle:

BroncoInSkinland
10-01-2009, 07:47 PM
Again, it's just a silly poll. Of course it's possible to be critical and remain a fan.

Problem is, that's not what caused the friction around here. Plenty of intelligent posters took up opposition to some of our moves and remained fans through the process. Others became full-time spammers, and bashers that rivaled anything we've seen from other teams.

So, the poll is sort of asking if water is wet. Sure. Water's wet. No one ever said it wasn't.

Create a new poll and ask if real fans abandon ship before a game has been played... or **** on a great 25 year owner because of one decision. (That STILL may turn out to be a good one.) Do real fans quit posting on the team's board when the team starts winning? Do real fans incessantly preach gloom and doom and **** on any hopes to the contrary?

You've got a lot of angry people here. A lot of mouthy b****es pushed their chips all in on the franchise being ****ed. Turns out, it's not... and now those posters are spinning to put the best face on their silly behavior that they can.

Are these trolls and bashers still fans? Hey, it's all subjective. If a mother beats her kids... she's still a mom, right? Is she a good one?

See people, now there is a constructive post. It lumps bronco's fans in with child abusing mothers. How could that result in anything but a positive outcome? Thanks for the pep talk there Popps, just like your hero Cutler you are a real leader.

Kaylore
10-01-2009, 10:06 PM
There is a difference between disagreeing and being a hater. The haters have second guessed every thing McDaniels has done and ripped on every move as stupid. They have resulted to name calling and provided little analysis other than "he's stupid" and wished for his failure and in some cases personal hamr. They have ripped on every draft pick and all the players that were brought in purely because McDaniels selected them. Every move he made, even when similar moves were made by other coaches, was questioned and insulted. And most of all, they made their minds up about the coach, the team and all the players before a single down of real football was played. And when people call them out on it, they hide behind this ridiculous "what?! Can't a fan have an opinion/make predictions" bull crap excuse.

Real fans certainly can question personnel moves and lament what they believe to be bad ones. However endlessly bashing your organization, ripping on everything "your team" does, and calling your coach childish names because of one trade is not "just fans having dissenting opinions." It's haters hating.

The difference is they are driven by anger and resentment (because McD traded Cutler, Bowlen fired Shanahan, McD was a Patriot or all of the above.) They don't have football takes, they have insults and resentment.

A good fan can disagree and even boo bad football. A good fan doesn't spend more time ripping and name-calling his own team than a division rival troll, and secretly root for his team to fail so he can be right.

I'm still amazed at how McDaniels "ruined this team" before a snap of real football was played. I'm amazed how angry people were that he gutted our last ranked special teams, defense and 16th scoring offense to replace it with one of the best ST coverage units so far, and at this point a top five defense and top ten offense.

We're winning games by three touchdown margins now. The last time we won back to back games by 20 or more points was in 2003. Even if you take away the deflection play in Cincy, we still lead for 58 points and would have lost to what appears to be a good football team by one point. But we won, and we won because our player was smarter than theirs.

I'm not ready to crown this team. I want to continue to watch things play out and see where things end up. I do like the direction they're headed, and I'm certainly glad I waited to see these guys play before I flipped out about the team.

baja
10-01-2009, 10:12 PM
Well you are going to get a shiit load of rep for that one Kaylore.

REP!

Good to see you name on the screen where it belongs...

Rock Chalk
10-01-2009, 10:15 PM
There is a difference between disagreeing and being a hater. The haters have second guessed every thing McDaniels has done and ripped on every move as stupid. They have resulted to name calling and provided little analysis other than "he's stupid" and wished for his failure and in some cases personal hamr. They have ripped on every draft pick and all the players that were brought in purely because McDaniels selected them. Every move he made, even when similar moves were made by other coaches, was questioned and insulted. And most of all, they made their minds up about the coach, the team and all the players before a single down of real football was played. And when people call them out on it, they hide behind this ridiculous "what?! Can't a fan have an opinion/make predictions" bull crap excuse.

Real fans certainly can question personnel moves and lament what they believe to be bad ones. However endlessly bashing your organization, ripping on everything "your team" does, and calling your coach childish names because of one trade is not "just fans having dissenting opinions." It's haters hating.

The difference is they are driven by anger and resentment (because McD traded Cutler, Bowlen fired Shanahan, McD was a Patriot or all of the above.) They don't have football takes, they have insults and resentment.

A good fan can disagree and even boo bad football. A good fan doesn't spend more time ripping and name-calling his own team than a division rival troll, and secretly root for his team to fail so he can be right.

I'm still amazed at how McDaniels "ruined this team" before a snap of real football was played. I'm amazed how angry people were that he gutted our last ranked special teams, defense and 16th scoring offense to replace it with one of the best ST coverage units so far, and at this point a top five defense and top ten offense.

We're winning games by three touchdown margins now. The last time we won back to back games by 20 or more points was in 2003. Even if you take away the deflection play in Cincy, we still lead for 58 points and would have lost to what appears to be a good football team by one point. But we won, and we won because our player was smarter than theirs.

I'm not ready to crown this team. I want to continue to watch things play out and see where things end up. I do like the direction they're headed, and I'm certainly glad I waited to see these guys play before I flipped out about the team.

The best part about haters, is their backpeddling. THey make Nmandi look bad at it they are so good :)

lex
10-01-2009, 10:18 PM
There is a difference between disagreeing and being a hater. The haters have second guessed every thing McDaniels has done and ripped on every move as stupid. They have resulted to name calling and provided little analysis other than "he's stupid" and wished for his failure and in some cases personal hamr. They have ripped on every draft pick and all the players that were brought in purely because McDaniels selected them. Every move he made, even when similar moves were made by other coaches, was questioned and insulted. And most of all, they made their minds up about the coach, the team and all the players before a single down of real football was played. And when people call them out on it, they hide behind this ridiculous "what?! Can't a fan have an opinion/make predictions" bull crap excuse.

Real fans certainly can question personnel moves and lament what they believe to be bad ones. However endlessly bashing your organization, ripping on everything "your team" does, and calling your coach childish names because of one trade is not "just fans having dissenting opinions." It's haters hating.

The difference is they are driven by anger and resentment (because McD traded Cutler, Bowlen fired Shanahan, McD was a Patriot or all of the above.) They don't have football takes, they have insults and resentment.

A good fan can disagree and even boo bad football. A good fan doesn't spend more time ripping and name-calling his own team than a division rival troll, and secretly root for his team to fail so he can be right.

I'm still amazed at how McDaniels "ruined this team" before a snap of real football was played. I'm amazed how angry people were that he gutted our last ranked special teams, defense and 16th scoring offense to replace it with one of the best ST coverage units so far, and at this point a top five defense and top ten offense.

We're winning games by three touchdown margins now. The last time we won back to back games by 20 or more points was in 2003. Even if you take away the deflection play in Cincy, we still lead for 58 points and would have lost to what appears to be a good football team by one point. But we won, and we won because our player was smarter than theirs.

I'm not ready to crown this team. I want to continue to watch things play out and see where things end up. I do like the direction they're headed, and I'm certainly glad I waited to see these guys play before I flipped out about the team.


McDaniels was never entitled to any kind of benefit of the doubt. He wasnt entitled to anything. If he had no margin for errpr at the beginning, then thats on him...not the fans. Like its even semi realistic to expect thousands of people to tailor their expectations around blind faith. Its still only 3 games into the season and many were thinking the front end of the schedule was the easiest part. Along those lines, all that has happened is holding serve.

There are reasons for optimism but theres a lot of football left.

lazarus4444
10-01-2009, 10:40 PM
Again, it's just a silly poll. Of course it's possible to be critical and remain a fan.

Problem is, that's not what caused the friction around here. Plenty of intelligent posters took up opposition to some of our moves and remained fans through the process. Others became full-time spammers, and bashers that rivaled anything we've seen from other teams.

So, the poll is sort of asking if water is wet. Sure. Water's wet. No one ever said it wasn't.

Create a new poll and ask if real fans abandon ship before a game has been played... or **** on a great 25 year owner because of one decision. (That STILL may turn out to be a good one.) Do real fans quit posting on the team's board when the team starts winning? Do real fans incessantly preach gloom and doom and **** on any hopes to the contrary?

You've got a lot of angry people here. A lot of mouthy b****es pushed their chips all in on the franchise being ****ed. Turns out, it's not... and now those posters are spinning to put the best face on their silly behavior that they can.

Are these trolls and bashers still fans? Hey, it's all subjective. If a mother beats her kids... she's still a mom, right? Is she a good one?

Popps, you have a good point, QFT!

Popps
10-02-2009, 12:03 AM
This has me puzzled as well. Some of these people stopped posting, or now post less, seemingly because the coach and team they ripped all offseason and preseason are doing better than expected? Really? In fact one of this forum's mods doesn't seem to post any more, and another only comes along occasionally to defend herself or Jay Cutler. This place is mildly dysfunctional, no?


:rofl:

Popps
10-02-2009, 12:13 AM
You've got a lot of angry people here because you and some others took it upon themselves to determine who is a fan and who isn't.

Incorrect.

My stance before the season:

Things might not be as bad as they seem. This team has made some interesting moves. Let's give them a chance.

The bashers' stance:

We ARE a failure. We ARE set back 50 years. We WILL be lucky to win 3 games.


See the difference?

The crux of my (and many other reasonable posters) argument was simply that we need evidence before drawing conclusions. Naturally, those who insisted that we DIDN'T need that evidence are very upset... because they've been proven incorrect. We're not a failure, and the franchise has exceeded expectations.

As for who is a good fan, once again... that's all a matter of perspective. I was told that I "drink kool-aid" for the Broncos because I said we might have an improved product on the field in the near future.

See, if you weren't patently miserable this off-season, the sad little group of trolls and Jay-Gays would attempt to pound you down with 1000 posts of gloom and doom per day.

But, a lot of us remained faithful to the team, and despite a rocky offseason, a lot of us believed in what the franchise was doing. Turns out, the franchise appears to have done some good things.

So, you'll continue to see those who made fools of themselves look to attack those who didn't. The latest seems to be the "real fan" angle. Maybe it's a guilty conscience that's plaguing these people.

Seems like after an offseason of making utter fools of themselves, a lot of these fans-turned-trolls are now looking to put the blame on someone else for their own idiotic behavior.

Hey, I didn't tell anyone to call for Bowlen's death via an AIDS-infected cactus. I didn't force people to profess their new love for the Bears. I didn't force people to troll-bash this board day and night with "we're doomed forever" nonsense.

But, it is my right as a fan to have an opinion about it. And my opinion is that a lot of people showed their true colors throughout this thing.

Vegas_Bronco
10-02-2009, 12:14 AM
Wow, I'm glad we cleared this all up.

Popps
10-02-2009, 12:17 AM
There is a difference between disagreeing and being a hater.

Exactly.

They know that, dude. But, polls like this are a way of making foolish people feel better about themselves.

Any rational human being knows that fans have a right to be critical.

But at a certain point, behavior crosses a line... and we saw that behavior in spades around here.

As I said, a lot of folks are very angry that this season has started out the way it has. Some can't even post here anymore. The new spin-job is to try to blame their behavior on other people for questioning their fanhood.

It's some seriously silly ****... but no sillier than their behavior that led up to all of this.

jhns
10-02-2009, 06:15 AM
Exactly.

They know that, dude. But, polls like this are a way of making foolish people feel better about themselves.

Any rational human being knows that fans have a right to be critical.

But at a certain point, behavior crosses a line... and we saw that behavior in spades around here.

As I said, a lot of folks are very angry that this season has started out the way it has. Some can't even post here anymore. The new spin-job is to try to blame their behavior on other people for questioning their fanhood.

It's some seriously silly ****... but no sillier than their behavior that led up to all of this.

You guys have no room to talk. I came here without insulting any person or anyone on this team. I view the Cutler move as an f up and as soon as I mentioned that, you and the blind faith army came out in force. You all were the ones mounting personal attacks and turning it into a pissing contest.

I see people saying that I was doing all this other stuff and none of them can give examples. You guys lump everyone that disagreed in one big pile. I never have once called mcdaniels anything other than mcdaniels. I have always supported bowlen and even argued for about 10 pages of a thread on how I can support Bowlen and not mcdaniels (them saying Cutler was all bowlen). I never started personal attacks, and still don't. The only people I deal out personal attacks to are the trolls that couldn't stop with them when dealing with us haters. I also never have said everything was a mistake. I have said many times that shanahan needed fired and that I loved the nolan hire. I have always said the offseason was perfect up until the Cutler debacle. According to you guys though, I have hated on everything because of my view on a couple things.

You "great fans" were just as much part of the problem around here as the negative crowd. Obviously some weren't, just as some negative fans weren't the problem. I was part of the problem as well. I know that. It is you and the other great fans that caused problems that are delusional now, acting like you tried making this a better place. Laughable..... Trolling is trolling.

I know none of the trolls I am talking about can read this but it needs to be said a few more times. Stop playing the victim when you are just as much part of the problem.

jhns
10-02-2009, 06:42 AM
Another funny thing about you guys is how you cry about Cutler calling this fan base a 6. You then all talk crap about how the majority of the fans are bad fans. How does that make sense?

Us negative people represent the fans better than "wait and see" attitude. Don't believe me? Rewatch the home opener. We were winning and the team was getting booed.

So how can you say all of the fans are horrible fans but also get mad because Cutler points that out? Shouldn't you be agreeing with him?

"I am the best fan in the world. The rest of the bronco fan base isn't close to me. I am the greatest in the world!" Get over yourselves. You guys represent the soft part of the fan base, not what it really is. We get it, you are better than all of us.

Edit: I must also add, what did you expect this offseason to be like? Did you really think everyone was going to be happy and rational when the team just gave away a QB that they have sold as the greatest thing to happen to modern football these past three years? Do you think talking crap to those fans help them become rational and accept it? Do you think that makes them calm down? Do you really think they are going to end the flame wars you start just because you can't agree?

baja
10-02-2009, 06:45 AM
I give you a 3

jhns
10-02-2009, 06:53 AM
I give you a 3

That is very generous of you.

baja
10-02-2009, 06:57 AM
I know

colonelbeef
10-02-2009, 07:15 AM
I don't get the hate towards jhns, he is just voicing his opinion. Whether you personally agree with his view or not has no standing on what kind of a fan he is

baja
10-02-2009, 07:18 AM
I don't get the hate towards jhns, he is just voicing his opinion. Whether you personally agree with his view or not has no standing on what kind of a fan he is

I don't hate jhns hell you and me are apparently the only 2 that don't have him on ignore.

jhns
10-02-2009, 07:24 AM
I don't get the hate towards jhns, he is just voicing his opinion. Whether you personally agree with his view or not has no standing on what kind of a fan he is

Oh I get the hate. I am very obnoxious about my opinions. If you don't agree and argue with me, I will go on all day. The thing I don't get is what they accuse me of doing. The majority of what people say they hate me for has never happened and none of them can give a single example when asked. Then there is the group that says everyone that disagreed with something was hating on everything, which is also dumb.

If you are going to hate, at least have your reasons correct. The people that trolled my posts and layed out personal attacks will surely hate me. I do the same right back untill they stfu. So some do have their reasons, although I don't hate them for doing the same thing to me. Some people are just soft.

TonyR
10-02-2009, 07:54 AM
I view the Cutler move as an f up...

And that's fine. But if you couch every discussion about this team with this "f up" and not with any of the positives or successes then it's not. At some point you have to look at net gains or losses from the offseason changes instead of just the Jay Cutler move. Because sometimes it comes across as, "yes we're winning but I still think we effed up with Cutler". At some point as a fan don't you have to focus more on the winning? At least up to this point?

TailgateNut
10-02-2009, 07:59 AM
I don't get the hate towards jhns, he is just voicing his opinion. Whether you personally agree with his view or not has no standing on what kind of a fan he is

I don't hate him. I feel sorry for the arrogant little bitch.

I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire, but I would if he wasn't.;D

lex
10-02-2009, 08:01 AM
I don't hate him. I feel sorry for the arrogant little b****.

I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire, but I would if he wasn't.;D


That must be tough to do when you have to pee sitting down, TailgatOvary.

GoBroncos DownUnder
10-02-2009, 08:08 AM
Oh I get the hate. I am very obnoxious about my opinions. If you don't agree and argue with me, I will go on all day. The thing I don't get is what they accuse me of doing. The majority of what people say they hate me for has never happened and none of them can give a single example when asked. Then there is the group that says everyone that disagreed with something was hating on everything, which is also dumb.

If you are going to hate, at least have your reasons correct. The people that trolled my posts and layed out personal attacks will surely hate me. I do the same right back untill they stfu. So some do have their reasons, although I don't hate them for doing the same thing to me. Some people are just soft.
I don't think anyone "hates" you, it's just a dis-like.
You used the term "lumped together" in your last post and this post uses generalisations like "The majority" "the group that says" "Some people". You don't like being grouped with haters - but you have already "grouped" the posters who dis-agree with you ... kind of oxymoronic, don't you think?

I give credit where it's due. Personally, I don't mind your posts, they are extreme, but they are normally well thought out, and written well.
Your posts went "down hill" though, when you were reduced to using "my opinion is" in an argument ... your opinion can never be wrong, because it's yours. AT that point, posts and counter posts just became obnoxious, so I'd just skim over them.


Just "my $.02" worth, hate me, like me, ban me, ignore me, I don't mind! ;)

jhns
10-02-2009, 08:09 AM
And that's fine. But if you couch every discussion about this team with this "f up" and not with any of the positives or successes then it's not. At some point you have to look at net gains or losses from the offseason changes instead of just the Jay Cutler move. Because sometimes it comes across as, "yes we're winning but I still think we effed up with Cutler". At some point as a fan don't you have to focus more on the winning? At least up to this point?

I have had a lot of positive things to say. Those posts just go unnoticed because of the negative things I have said. I don't even bring up Cutler except when people make it about him or make one of these "call out" threads. I still feel it was a mistake so being called out is just weird. Other times, it had been, "why are you saying good things when you hated everything this offseason." As if every negative thing said by anyone was said by every person that didn't like something. It makes it hard to talk about the positives when even the positive posters just want to go on about the negatives.

Now every positive post and thread still goes away fast so we can all talk crap about who was correct in the offseason. Again, the negative people are not the only ones to blame for the way the board has been. that also isn't saying they aren't to blame, just so that is clear.

jhns
10-02-2009, 08:12 AM
I don't think anyone "hates" you, it's just a dis-like.
You used the term "lumped together" in your last post and this post uses generalisations like "The majority" "the group that says" "Some people". You don't like being grouped with haters - but you have already "grouped" the posters who dis-agree with you ... kind of oxymoronic, don't you think?

I give credit where it's due. Personally, I don't mind your posts, they are extreme, but they are normally well thought out, and written well.
Your posts went "down hill" though, when you were reduced to using "my opinion is" in an argument ... your opinion can never be wrong, because it's yours. AT that point, posts and counter posts just became obnoxious, so I'd just skim over them.


Just "my $.02" worth, hate me, like me, ban me, ignore me, I don't mind! ;)

Sorry, it does sound that way and I don't mean for it to. I have a specific group of posters in mind when saying this stuff. I do want to make the point that what I say doesn't include the majority of posters here, positive or not.

The posters that were part of the problem, on both sides, know who I am talking about. If you weren't making personal attacks, telling people who the real fans are, or just being an ass in general, nothing I say applies to you.

lex
10-02-2009, 08:18 AM
I have had a lot of positive things to say. Those posts just go unnoticed because of the negative things I have said. I don't even bring up Cutler except when people make it about him or make one of these "call out" threads. I still feel it was a mistake so being called out is just weird. Other times, it had been, "why are you saying good things when you hated everything this offseason." As if every negative thing said by anyone was said by every person that didn't like something. It makes it hard to talk about the positives when even the positive posters just want to go on about the negatives.

Now every positive post and thread still goes away fast so we can all talk crap about who was correct in the offseason. Again, the negative people are not the only ones to blame for the way the board has been. that also isn't saying they aren't to blame, just so that is clear.



Youve done nothing wrong. This is all about the herd mentality. In spite of the fact that it wasnt entirely unpredictable that the team would start out 2-1 or even 3-0, the herd are trying to use this as an opportunity to reign everyone in. Let me remind you its only week 3. What are you going to do if you retract and then things fall apart? You will have cheapened your original honesty if you do that. To many this is about blind faith more than it is delivering on the field but thats not really how it is. It really is about proving it and it takes more than 3 games to do that.

jhns
10-02-2009, 08:26 AM
Youve done nothing wrong. This is all about the herd mentality. In spite of the fact that it wasnt entirely unpredictable that the team would start out 2-1 or even 3-0, the herd are trying to use this as an opportunity to reign everyone in. Let me remind you its only week 3. What are you going to do if you retract and then things fall apart? You will have cheapened your original honesty if you do that. To many this is about blind faith more than it is delivering on the field but thats not really how it is. It really is about proving it and it takes more than 3 games to do that.

Trust me, I am not retracting anything I have said. It will take a lot more than this season to prove the Cutler deal was smart, which is the only thing I have been overly negative about. That trade affects 10-12 years of Bronco football. There is no way to prove anyone wrong even at the end of the season (of course a SB could, so I guess one way).

Popps
10-02-2009, 08:35 AM
That trade affects 10-12 years of Bronco football. ).

You have no idea if that's the case. Absolutely none. Cutler may wind up being just what he's been... a big-armed QB without much in the way of intangibles or leadership. He may not end up a big factor in any team's success at all.
Thus far, he hasn't done ****.

So, when you people say, "imagine him in our offense now," or "losing him will affect us for a decade," you're just speculating. You understand that, right? Because there is absolutely no factual evidence to support it.

Thus far, he's left.. and the team looks better as a whole.

There is no way to prove anyone wrong even at the end of the season (of course a SB could, so I guess one way).

Correct. We'll need many years to know if Cutler would have likely had any effect in Denver, and even then... it's just guessing. Some guys play better for some teams than they do others. (Systems, etc.)

So, people need to get over the notion of making guarantees about the future because we've all seen how well that's worked so far. According to the bashers around here, we would be 0-3 right now with McDaniels on the brink of being fired.

lex
10-02-2009, 08:37 AM
Trust me, I am not retracting anything I have said. It will take a lot more than this season to prove the Cutler deal was smart, which is the only thing I have been overly negative about. That trade affects 10-12 years of Bronco football. There is no way to prove anyone wrong even at the end of the season (of course a SB could, so I guess one way).

The interesting thing will be if we arrive at a point where the team is solid but people are saying "the team is a QB away". Should that day come, which it might, do you think people will be standing in line to tell you you were right? Not hardly. Its really less about what youre saying than it is about the fact that youre saying something that is being perceived as negative.

jhns
10-02-2009, 08:43 AM
You have no idea if that's the case. Absolutely none. Cutler may wind up being just what he's been... a big-armed QB without much in the way of intangibles or leadership. He may not end up a big factor in any team's success at all.
Thus far, he hasn't done ****.

So, when you people say, "imagine him in our offense now," or "losing him will affect us for a decade," you're just speculating. You understand that, right? Because there is absolutely no factual evidence to support it.

Thus far, he's left.. and the team looks better as a whole.



Correct. We'll need many years to know if Cutler would have likely had any effect in Denver, and even then... it's just guessing. Some guys play better for some teams than they do others. (Systems, etc.)

So, people need to get over the notion of making guarantees about the future because we've all seen how well that's worked so far. According to the bashers around here, we would be 0-3 right now with McDaniels on the brink of being fired.

Yes, I get that I can't prove my point for some years either. That is why I am not creating the "I told you so" threads. Me and a lot of the other haters did not once suggest this team would start 0-3. I have never made a prediction on here when it comes to wins and losses.

I still feel the same way about the moves I cried about all offseason. If you want to argue those points, I still wouldn't mind that. I just don't like seeing the negative crowd take all the blame for the way the board has been. We haven't been arguing and having pissing matches with ourselves...

Broncomutt
10-02-2009, 08:57 AM
Dear Denver,

We have a golden opportunity to start a new era in Bronco history on a great note. If you are going to the game, make some noise, the Cowboys won't be pushovers. Scream your asses off!!

If you're carrying a grudge against McDaniels and Orton and plan to boo the first incomplete pass you see. Prove you actually are a fan by stayng the **** at home.

Sincerely,

Displaced but loyal Bronco fan

lex
10-02-2009, 08:59 AM
Dear Denver,

We have a golden opportunity to start a new era in Bronco history on a great note. If you are going to the game, make some noise, the Cowboys won't be pushovers. Scream your asses off!!

If you're carrying a grudge against McDaniels and Orton and plan to boo the first incomplete pass you see. Prove you actually are a fan by stayng the **** at home.

Sincerely,

Displaced but loyal Bronco fan


STFU.

BTW, is HeeHaw, NC near Mayberry?

Popps
10-02-2009, 09:02 AM
Dear Denver,

We have a golden opportunity to start a new era in Bronco history on a great note. If you are going to the game, make some noise, the Cowboys won't be pushovers. Scream your asses off!!

If you're carrying a grudge against McDaniels and Orton and plan to boo the first incomplete pass you see. Prove you actually are a fan by stayng the **** at home.

Sincerely,

Displaced but loyal Bronco fan


:thumbsup:

GoBroncos DownUnder
10-02-2009, 09:35 AM
It will take a lot more than this season to prove the Cutler deal was smart, which is the only thing I have been overly negative about. That trade affects 10-12 years of Bronco football. There is no way to prove anyone wrong even at the end of the season (of course a SB could, so I guess one way).

Yes, I get that I can't prove my point for some years either. ...

I still feel the same way about the moves I cried about all offseason.
"You are wasting the present, if you fear the future."
I don't see how you are going to enjoy the games/Broncos/Football (in general) if you're already making statements about the next "X years of Bronco football"?
Personally, I LOVED game #1 - turning up to the bar, openly saying we have modest expectations for the year, watching our defense play lots of ugly/hard football. The final result was "immaculate" and I loved every second of it!

Football is something to ENJOY, not ENDURE!

baja
10-02-2009, 09:36 AM
"You are wasting the present, if you fear the future."
I don't see how you are going to enjoy the games/Broncos/Football (in general) if you're already making statements about the next "X years of Bronco football"?
Personally, I LOVED game #1 - turning up to the bar, openly saying we have modest expectations for the year, watching our defense play lots of ugly/hard football. The final result was "immaculate" and I loved every second of it!

<b>Football is something to ENJOY, not ENDURE!

I think this guy might be on to something here...

oubronco
10-02-2009, 09:37 AM
I think this guy might be on to something here...

Here here

GoBroncos DownUnder
10-02-2009, 09:43 AM
The interesting thing will be if we arrive at a point where the team is solid but people are saying "the team is a QB away". Should that day come, which it might, do you think people will be standing in line to tell you you were right? Not hardly. Its really less about what youre saying than it is about the fact that youre saying something that is being perceived as negative.
IF we still HAD Cutler, we'd have to have kept Shanahan, which would mean we'd still have Slowik coaching the Defense. UGH!
We HAVE McDaniels, who brought in Nolan and now have a solid (loooking) Defense.

I'll take what we HAVE, what we HAD is gone, I've already moved on.:egbgb:

GoBroncos DownUnder
10-02-2009, 09:51 AM
I think this guy might be on to something here...

Thanks!
Try "living" with only 2 live NFL games telecast: Monday 5am, and MNF on a Tuesday at 10am! And 15 years of Super Bowl MONDAYS, kickoff at 11am ... You'll get a whole new appreciation for the game!:rofl:

(Don't get me started on the ZERO college games on TV in Australia ... I still dread that crap! :chairhit:)

lex
10-02-2009, 09:51 AM
IF we still HAD Cutler, we'd have to have kept Shanahan, which would mean we'd still have Slowik coaching the Defense. UGH!
We HAVE McDaniels, who brought in Nolan and now have a solid (loooking) Defense.

I'll take what we HAVE, what we HAD is gone, I've already moved on.:egbgb:

Thats not true at all.

jhns
10-02-2009, 09:54 AM
"You are wasting the present, if you fear the future."
I don't see how you are going to enjoy the games/Broncos/Football (in general) if you're already making statements about the next "X years of Bronco football"?
Personally, I LOVED game #1 - turning up to the bar, openly saying we have modest expectations for the year, watching our defense play lots of ugly/hard football. The final result was "immaculate" and I loved every second of it!

Football is something to ENJOY, not ENDURE!

Trust me, when this team takes the field, nothing I complain about is in my head. I could absolutly hate the coach and most moves and I will still enjoy the game. I will also still root for this team. I still will have my own thoughts on moves and like discussing them, even when they are negative.

The easiest way to put this is Broncos football is much bigger than either McDaniels or Cutler. I will love this team when these two are not even near the game anymore.

GoBroncos DownUnder
10-02-2009, 09:54 AM
Thats not true at all.
Ah well, it's gone now, so ... :sunshine:

lex
10-02-2009, 09:56 AM
Ah well, it's gone now, so ... :sunshine:


Yeah, it is gone now but scrutiny is not.

baja
10-02-2009, 09:58 AM
Thanks!
Try "living" with only 2 live NFL games telecast: Monday 5am, and MNF on a Tuesday at 10am! And 15 years of Super Bowl MONDAYS, kickoff at 11am ... You'll get a whole new appreciation for the game!:rofl:

(Don't get me started on the ZERO college games on TV in Australia ... I still dread that crap! :chairhit:)

You need to get one of these;

http://www.slingmedia.com/

and a willing Bronco fan that lives in Colorado.

gunns
10-02-2009, 10:03 AM
There is a difference between disagreeing and being a hater. The haters have second guessed every thing McDaniels has done and ripped on every move as stupid. They have resulted to name calling and provided little analysis other than "he's stupid" and wished for his failure and in some cases personal hamr. They have ripped on every draft pick and all the players that were brought in purely because McDaniels selected them. Every move he made, even when similar moves were made by other coaches, was questioned and insulted. And most of all, they made their minds up about the coach, the team and all the players before a single down of real football was played. And when people call them out on it, they hide behind this ridiculous "what?! Can't a fan have an opinion/make predictions" bull crap excuse.

Real fans certainly can question personnel moves and lament what they believe to be bad ones. However endlessly bashing your organization, ripping on everything "your team" does, and calling your coach childish names because of one trade is not "just fans having dissenting opinions." It's haters hating.

The difference is they are driven by anger and resentment (because McD traded Cutler, Bowlen fired Shanahan, McD was a Patriot or all of the above.) They don't have football takes, they have insults and resentment.

A good fan can disagree and even boo bad football. A good fan doesn't spend more time ripping and name-calling his own team than a division rival troll, and secretly root for his team to fail so he can be right.

I'm still amazed at how McDaniels "ruined this team" before a snap of real football was played. I'm amazed how angry people were that he gutted our last ranked special teams, defense and 16th scoring offense to replace it with one of the best ST coverage units so far, and at this point a top five defense and top ten offense.

We're winning games by three touchdown margins now. The last time we won back to back games by 20 or more points was in 2003. Even if you take away the deflection play in Cincy, we still lead for 58 points and would have lost to what appears to be a good football team by one point. But we won, and we won because our player was smarter than theirs.

I'm not ready to crown this team. I want to continue to watch things play out and see where things end up. I do like the direction they're headed, and I'm certainly glad I waited to see these guys play before I flipped out about the team.

I just think hater is extreme. Maybe some are bandwagon fans, but I think most just have an approach to the team that if what they want and think will save the team and it wasn't done some developed a stubborn, negative side where they weren't budging. And yes you are right, they just want to be right (just like everyone). But I think most are now just happy the team is winning, convincingly.

Like you, being happy, but cautious about the future, has gotten them attacked too as being a hater, for not believing. Everyone has a different approach as a fan and I don't see the necessity of continually telling them they are/were wrong. Yes, some of the posters were right. So, what's more important now, the fact that they were right and the Broncos are winning, or rubbing someone's face in it everyday. It just goes to show the passion of some fans, both sides. It went on all off season and it's time to quit telling people what kind of fan they are, just enjoy that you're a fan.

Orange_Beard
10-02-2009, 10:39 AM
Ask any sane Chefs or Lions fan. Of course.

BroncoBuff
10-02-2009, 10:53 AM
There is a difference between disagreeing and being a hater. The haters have second guessed every thing McDaniels has done and ripped on every move as stupid.
You're obviously talking about SoCal, don't pretend you're not. Just because he's a friend of yours doesn't mean your description doesn't fit him. It fits him. Is that really where you want to go with this?

And you greatly exaggerate by saying "ripped on every move as stupid." Nobody, or virtually nobody, argued with Knowshon or Ayers. And it's entirely reasonable, even correct to argue with the Quinn trade (Quinn himself wasn't even sure he'd be drafted at all). Same with the starting D-line (none had ever been a starter, McBean had played just one game ever), the sparse draft board (eyebrows were raised across the league), and the failure to protect the better of the two first round picks in the Seattle-Alphonso trade (Jim Mora gloated a bit on that on his Draft night TV show). I like Alphonso a lot, but leaving Maualuga and Brace on the board at that point is certainly worthy of disagreement and debate.

EVEN PAT BOWLEN SAID HE MADE ROOKIE MISTAKES! That's a serious statement for an owner to make about his new coach. So please don't pretend calling Josh out is "hating." Unless you think Bowlen is a hater, too.

All these moves might be redeemed in the end - the D-line looks great. But questioning and dissenting on each of these decisions is reasonable, even proper.



They have resulted to name calling and provided little analysis other than "he's stupid" and wished for his failure and in some cases personal hamr.No way ... I think the name calling has been about 80-20 in favor of you guys. The dissenters obviously complain more - we whined and complained constantly for awhile there. But there's been far more insults from the pro-management side. Popps alone has hurled more ***ing ****er insults than all the dissenters put together. Even worse, he started from Day 1 with the insults. On a board like this, accusing someone of "wanting the Broncos to lose" is the worst kind of insult, and you guys do it all the time. That's tantamount to calling somebody a "traitor," and imo there's no place for that. In general (not you in particular but in general), it's a weak position that is so threatened by disagreement that it lashes out at those who disagree. It's pretty awesome to see the poll reject Flip-Popps' brand of hating by a 100 to 1 margin now ^5



Khan, you are without a doubt one of the best, most respected, most liked posters here. As such, please consider being a bit more tolerant, even with the jerks.

BroncoBuff
10-02-2009, 11:10 AM
IF we still HAD Cutler, we'd have to have kept Shanahan, which would mean we'd still have Slowik coaching the Defense. UGH!
Your timeline is off there ... when Pat fired Mike, we still fully expected Jay to stay on as quarterback.

And even though I've ridden shotgun some on the Hate-Slowick train, Taco John has lined out a pretty good (quasi) defense of him. What's a DC gonna do with Nate Webster, Calvin Lowry, Jamie Winborn, John Engleberger, Marquand Manuel, Josh Smith and Marlon McRee as starters?

Kaylore
10-02-2009, 11:27 AM
Actually SoCal was pretty reasonable and you know this too because we were all there during our rountable. There were a number of things he mentioned that he specifically liked, such as his faith in the coaching staff, how he felt the secondary was upgraded to a good mix of veterans and youth to build on. So no, I wasn't referring to SoCal directly. SoCal was one of the name-callers, but he's always been able to remain objective even when it came to us drafting players from schools he hated, or players he didn't care for.

nobody, argued with Knowshon or Ayers. And it's entirely reasonable, even correct to argue with the Quinn trade (Quinn himself wasn't even sure he'd be drafted at all). Same with the starting D-line (none had ever been a starter, McBean had played just one game ever), the sparse draft board (eyebrows were raised across the league), and the failure to protect the better of the two first round picks in the Seattle-Alphonso trade (Jim Mora gloated a bit on that on his Draft night TV show). I like Alphonso a lot, but leaving Maualuga and Brace on the board at that point is certainly worthy of disagreement and debate.

There was a lot of people ripping on the Moreno selection. Lex in particular because once again it wasn't "His" running back.
A lot of people hated the Ayers pick too b/c it wasn't Rey-Rey.
The people ripping on the D-line couldn't have waited until they played some games first? It's one thing to be skeptical. The haters declared us dead before waiting to see otherwise.
It wasn't "correct" to question the Quinn trade just because your draft magazine or Quinn himself said he wouldn't be drafted. Neither has any experience as a GM and he's blocked like a maniac and is playing every game.
Questioning the draft in general is worthless because it takes three years to tell.
Maualuga is big and stupid and it shows. Just b/c he's made some nice hits doesn't mean he isn't biting on play action. He has his uses but he's not smart enough to play in this defense.
Skipping on Ron Brace and the 'Phonso trade is one area I was critical of this team on. And I liked the pick but questioned what we gave up. Ultimately how we finish and how both players do a few years from now will grade the trade. That's many months away, so let's call that one when it's clearer.


Again, I don't mind when people express skepticism, concern, or disagree. I myself had problems with the "franchise long snapper" and overspending in the draft. I do have a problem with people getting mad about something that hasn't happened yet, i.e., saying the team is going to win two games, being upset like it's already happened, and proposing we fire McDaniels now to fix the problem that isn't there. How many times did you read "this team is going to suck. **** Mcdip****! McDummy thinks he's smarter than everyone. McDoornob needs go. He's 'ruining' this awesome team." Now not all of you were this stupid. But most of the people that were mad made up their mind about the team in March and complained the whole way. That's not being a fan, that's being a gun-jumping whiner.

I think the name calling has been about 80-20 in favor of you guys. The dissenters obviously complain more - we whined and complained constantly for awhile there. But there's been far more insults from the pro-management side. Popps alone has hurled more ***ing ****er insults than all the dissenters put together. Even worse, he started from Day 1 with the insults. On a board like this, accusing someone of "wanting the Broncos to lose" is the worst kind of insult, and you guys do it all the time. That's tantamount to calling somebody a "traitor," and imo there's no place for that. In general (not you in particular but in general), it's a weak position that is so threatened by disagreement that it lashes out at those who disagree.


I haven't been around too much, but I can agree that things have swung too far back the other way. That's some percentage of why I took a break actually, it was too divisive and I don't need the negativity right now. There are some who rip on you even if you point out our team's current weaknesses or mention that we've played two crappy offenses so our defense's numbers are inflated.

However this is a direct result of the three months of the whinging and name-calling everyone who simply wanted to wait and see had to endure. Does it make it mature? No. But if you're going to declare predictions of misery and woe with such certainty, and name call and belittle someone before they're proven, when you're shown to be wrong it's going to smash you back in your face. There were a small minority who made predictions that the team would do well ala Montrose's 13-3 prediction, which I thought also was premature, however the majority of the people jumping the gun were the whiners. While I won't join the mob, I have absolutely no sympathy for you guys. I'll say the same thing I told Montrose: "You wan't to make a prediction, fine. But if you're wrong, be ready for the consequences." It's just a message board anyway, and if it's too hard take some time.

Personally I still think it's too early to say one group was right or wrong (except for the people who said we were going 0-16 or like Atlas who guaranteed we'd lose to the Bengals.) So there is still a lot of time and I am going to continue to wait and watch, and most of all enjoy Broncos football before I make any declaration about where the team is at. I do like our special teams coverage, I like not having Slowick (I told you that alone would be better) and I like our staff and the faith the players have in them. So let's see.

I'll just give this final warning. Over the last several months I've been meticulously keeping a word file of just about every prediction many here made concerning the doom of this team, Orton and McDaniels every time I read one. It is several pages long. There is still enough season for things to break either way, but once there is some clarity on the issue, say after eight or nine more games, I'm going to repost them so we can all see how smart those posters were. My suspicion is a lot of people are going to look incredibly stupid in that time.

TailgateNut
10-02-2009, 11:42 AM
I'll just give this final warning. Over the last several months I've been meticulously keeping a word file of just about every prediction many here made concerning the doom of this team, Orton and McDaniels every time I read one. It is several pages long. There is still enough season for things to break either way, but once there is some clarity on the issue, say after eight or nine more games, I'm going to repost them so we can all see how smart those posters were. My suspicion is a lot of people are going to look incredibly stupid in that time.

That should be interesting, especially considering the few who have already backtracked on their previous comments, but fail to acknowledge them, and in some instances even proclaiming they never made any comments.

Some have just Disappeared! :thumbsup:

Eldorado
10-02-2009, 11:42 AM
I'll just give this final warning. Over the last several months I've been meticulously keeping a word file of just about every prediction many here made concerning the doom of this team, Orton and McDaniels every time I read one. It is several pages long. There is still enough season for things to break either way, but once there is some clarity on the issue, say after eight or nine more games, I'm going to repost them so we can all see how smart those posters were. My suspicion is a lot of people are going to look incredibly stupid in that time.

ROFLMFAO

ohh man, thats gonna be fun.

What stupid **** did I say?:D

Lev Vyvanse
10-02-2009, 11:43 AM
I'll just give this final warning. Over the last several months I've been meticulously keeping a word file of just about every prediction many here made concerning the doom of this team, Orton and McDaniels every time I read one. It is several pages long. There is still enough season for things to break either way, but once there is some clarity on the issue, say after eight or nine more games, I'm going to repost them so we can all see how smart those posters were. My suspicion is a lot of people are going to look incredibly stupid in that time.

That will be an interesting thread.

Lev Vyvanse
10-02-2009, 11:45 AM
What stupid **** did I say?:D

Where do I begin?

Eldorado
10-02-2009, 11:46 AM
He's got your name, he's got your number, Lev. Come clean now. You cried the day they traded cutler.

Lev Vyvanse
10-02-2009, 11:49 AM
Maybe a little.

TailgateNut
10-02-2009, 11:50 AM
The LEX, jhns and REV comments will be locker room bulletin board material.
Too bad I won be able to read their responses because the Fahqwahds are on ignore.

HAT
10-02-2009, 11:54 AM
Over the last several months I've been meticulously keeping a word file of just about every prediction many here made concerning the doom of this team, Orton and McDaniels every time I read one. It is several pages long. There is still enough season for things to break either way, but once there is some clarity on the issue, say after eight or nine more games, I'm going to repost them so we can all see how smart those posters were. My suspicion is a lot of people are going to look incredibly stupid in that time.

^5

Can't wait!

Eldorado
10-02-2009, 11:57 AM
Maybe a little.

Give me a break. You shaved your head and made a youtube video.

http://cdn.buzznet.com/assets/imgx/2/4/8/3/4/2/1/feat-2483421.jpg

Kaylore
10-02-2009, 12:12 PM
The LEX, jhns and REV comments will be locker room bulletin board material.
Too bad I won be able to read their responses because the Fahqwahds are on ignore.

TheRev is on there. I've had LEX on ignore for the better part of a year and have no desire to change that. If someone else want's to post his fine, but I figured after he said Clady and Royal were crappy picks and we should have taken Mendenhall, and then exposed him to everyone, he wasn't worth my time.

lex
10-02-2009, 12:14 PM
Actually SoCal was pretty reasonable and you know this too because we were all there during our rountable. There were a number of things he mentioned that he specifically liked, such as his faith in the coaching staff, how he felt the secondary was upgraded to a good mix of veterans and youth to build on. So no, I wasn't referring to SoCal directly. SoCal was one of the name-callers, but he's always been able to remain objective even when it came to us drafting players from schools he hated, or players he didn't care for.



There was a lot of people ripping on the Moreno selection. Lex in particular because once again it wasn't "His" running back.
A lot of people hated the Ayers pick too b/c it wasn't Rey-Rey.
The people ripping on the D-line couldn't have waited until they played some games first? It's one thing to be skeptical. The haters declared us dead before waiting to see otherwise.
It wasn't "correct" to question the Quinn trade just because your draft magazine or Quinn himself said he wouldn't be drafted. Neither has any experience as a GM and he's blocked like a maniac and is playing every game.
Questioning the draft in general is worthless because it takes three years to tell.
Maualuga is big and stupid and it shows. Just b/c he's made some nice hits doesn't mean he isn't biting on play action. He has his uses but he's not smart enough to play in this defense.
Skipping on Ron Brace and the 'Phonso trade is one area I was critical of this team on. And I liked the pick but questioned what we gave up. Ultimately how we finish and how both players do a few years from now will grade the trade. That's many months away, so let's call that one when it's clearer.


Again, I don't mind when people express skepticism, concern, or disagree. I myself had problems with the "franchise long snapper" and overspending in the draft. I do have a problem with people getting mad about something that hasn't happened yet, i.e., saying the team is going to win two games, being upset like it's already happened, and proposing we fire McDaniels now to fix the problem that isn't there. How many times did you read "this team is going to suck. **** Mcdip****! McDummy thinks he's smarter than everyone. McDoornob needs go. He's 'ruining' this awesome team." Now not all of you were this stupid. But most of the people that were mad made up their mind about the team in March and complained the whole way. That's not being a fan, that's being a gun-jumping whiner.



I haven't been around too much, but I can agree that things have swung too far back the other way. That's some percentage of why I took a break actually, it was too divisive and I don't need the negativity right now. There are some who rip on you even if you point out our team's current weaknesses or mention that we've played two crappy offenses so our defense's numbers are inflated.

However this is a direct result of the three months of the whinging and name-calling everyone who simply wanted to wait and see had to endure. Does it make it mature? No. But if you're going to declare predictions of misery and woe with such certainty, and name call and belittle someone before they're proven, when you're shown to be wrong it's going to smash you back in your face. There were a small minority who made predictions that the team would do well ala Montrose's 13-3 prediction, which I thought also was premature, however the majority of the people jumping the gun were the whiners. While I won't join the mob, I have absolutely no sympathy for you guys. I'll say the same thing I told Montrose: "You wan't to make a prediction, fine. But if you're wrong, be ready for the consequences." It's just a message board anyway, and if it's too hard take some time.

Personally I still think it's too early to say one group was right or wrong (except for the people who said we were going 0-16 or like Atlas who guaranteed we'd lose to the Bengals.) So there is still a lot of time and I am going to continue to wait and watch, and most of all enjoy Broncos football before I make any declaration about where the team is at. I do like our special teams coverage, I like not having Slowick (I told you that alone would be better) and I like our staff and the faith the players have in them. So let's see.

I'll just give this final warning. Over the last several months I've been meticulously keeping a word file of just about every prediction many here made concerning the doom of this team, Orton and McDaniels every time I read one. It is several pages long. There is still enough season for things to break either way, but once there is some clarity on the issue, say after eight or nine more games, I'm going to repost them so we can all see how smart those posters were. My suspicion is a lot of people are going to look incredibly stupid in that time.

Actually my reaction to the Moreno pick has been mostly positive. I would have gone with Wells but overall I was mostly pleased with the fact that they finally did away with the flawed theory of "we're just as well off drafting a RB in the 5th". I thought 12 was kind of high to take him but taking a RB in the first was in line with what Ive been saying for a long time where neglect of the running game is concerned. If you want to find people who have been critical of that pick, Im not really the guy for that. Ive also been pleased to see him used in a way where actually running the ball is featured as his primary skill. There have heen so many more who were absolutely and completely opposed to taking a RB in the first in general. You can easily point to them without any kind of distortion.

BroncoBuff
10-02-2009, 12:15 PM
I'll just give this final warning. Over the last several months I've been meticulously keeping a word file of just about every prediction many here made concerning the doom of this team, Orton and McDaniels every time I read one. It is several pages long. There is still enough season for things to break either way, but once there is some clarity on the issue, say after eight or nine more games, I'm going to repost them so we can all see how smart those posters were. My suspicion is a lot of people are going to look incredibly stupid in that time.
You and Popps should compare your "I-Told-You-So" lists :~ohyah!:

What do you guys hope to prove with these lists? If Quinn or McBath or even Ayers disappoints, are you gonna post that stuff too? Or are you going to cherry-pick results to throw out angry, vengeful posts? The sad part is that even those who hated the Quinn pick will LOVE the guy if he plays well ... so what's the point with this vengeful stockpiling data? What do you get out of it?

I think if we could somehow gather the data to map out the averages for predicted number of wins - splitting Dissenters and Pro-Managements - they'd be very similar, damn close. I predicted between 6-8 wins, maybe 9. I think you and Popps said the same ???

THAT'S THE IRONY OF ALL THIS! Despite the schisms and the fighting, the two sides predictions are about the same. You might be a bit too sensitive, and again, attacking fellow fans for doubting moves is unseemly.

lex
10-02-2009, 12:16 PM
TheRev is on there. I've had LEX on ignore for the better part of a year and have no desire to change that. If someone else want's to post his fine, but I figured after he said Clady and Royal were crappy picks and we should have taken Mendenhall, and then exposed him to everyone, he wasn't worth my time.

Yet another lie. And Ive posted the thread to back it up.

jhns
10-02-2009, 12:16 PM
So is this going to be a new tradition? Crying that Bronco fans aren't reasonable?

Us unreasonable fans still represent the entire fan base. The softies do not represent this fan base. Proof? Listen to the crowd boo in the home opener, we were winning at the time. If you can't handle this fact, maybe you are the one that isn't a good Bronco fan.... (It is fun to spin it, sorry)

I get those of you that can't hear anything negative without crying, think you are the "real fans". To bad the rest of the fan base (which is by far the majority) does not agree with you. Your arguments are trying to say the Broncos only have a few good fans. Sorry, you aren't better than everyone. I know it hurts to hear, but it is the truth.

To anyone that has something thrown in their face, just make it a game. Football is all about speculation. Everyone that tries to bring something up has said some pretty retarded stuff. Go find it and show them that they aren't smarter than you. It is funny to see what you and others have said in the past. I know I have said many dumb things.

TonyR
10-02-2009, 12:19 PM
...he said Clady and Royal were crappy picks and we should have taken Mendenhall...

Wow. I just read today that Willie Parker won't play and Mewelde Moore will probably start ahead of Mendenhall who is looking like quite a bust.

Rohirrim
10-02-2009, 12:21 PM
Well, my pre-season prediction was four and twelve. I predict we'll reach that win column number this weekend! !Booya!






After that, it will be kind of tough. ;D




Now you see why I don't gamble.

lex
10-02-2009, 12:21 PM
You and Popps should compare your "I-Told-You-So" lists :~ohyah!:

What do you guys hope to prove with these lists? If Quinn or McBath or even Ayers disappoints, are you gonna post that stuff too? Or are you going to cherry-pick results to throw out angry, vengeful posts? The sad part is that even those who hated the Quinn pick will LOVE the guy if he plays well ... so what's the point with this vengeful stockpiling data? What do you get out of it?

I think if we could somehow gather the data to map out the averages for predicted number of wins - splitting Dissenters and Pro-Managements - they'd be very similar, damn close. I predicted between 6-8 wins, maybe 9. I think you and Popps said the same ???

THAT'S THE IRONY OF ALL THIS! Despite the schisms and the fighting, the two sides predictions are about the same. You might be a bit too sensitive, and again, attacking fellow fans for doubting moves is unseemly.

This is really true. One one side you have the people who are justifying a bad season in advance and on the other side you have people who are complaining in anticipation of a bad season. Is there really a difference when both sides are speaking in the same terms aside from spinning them differently? No,...not really.

Eldorado
10-02-2009, 12:22 PM
You and Popps should compare your "I-Told-You-So" lists :~ohyah!:

What do you guys hope to prove with these lists? If Quinn or McBath or even Ayers disappoints, are you gonna post that stuff too? Or are you going to cherry-pick results to throw out angry, vengeful posts? The sad part is that even those who hated the Quinn pick will LOVE the guy if he plays well ... so what's the point with this vengeful stockpiling data? What do you get out of it?

I think if we could somehow gather the data to map out the averages for predicted number of wins - splitting Dissenters and Pro-Managements - they'd be very similar, damn close. I predicted between 6-8 wins, maybe 9. I think you and Popps said the same ???

THAT'S THE IRONY OF ALL THIS! Despite the schisms and the fighting, the two sides predictions are about the same. You might be a bit too sensitive, and again, attacking fellow fans for doubting moves is unseemly.

Dead man walkin'

BroncoBuff
10-02-2009, 12:27 PM
Dead man walkin'
LOL

I'm not exactly sure what that means, but somehow it's still funny :~ohyah!:

BroncoBuff
10-02-2009, 12:34 PM
This is really true. One one side you have the people who are justifying a bad season in advance and on the other side you have people who are complaining in anticipation of a bad season. Is there really a difference when both sides are speaking in the same terms aside from spinning them differently? No,...not really.
:thumbs:

I may be one of you few friends here, lex, but I'm with ya ... we'll fight the bastards back to back! :charge:

lex
10-02-2009, 12:35 PM
:thumbs:

I may be one of you few friends here, lex, but I'm with ya ... we'll fight the bastards back to back! :charge:


Cool, although, Ive steadfastly said I expect the team to win 10 games, even though that wasnt a prediction.

Eldorado
10-02-2009, 12:36 PM
Yet another lie. And Ive posted the thread to back it up.

oops...

B

We should have taken Branden Albert or Chris Williams...I give Clady a C.

Im giving the Royal pick an A. I dont think it was the best pick but if we're going to take a WR, it was smart to take it when we did. Definitely not a horrible pick even if it wasnt my preference.

and later...

I give it a C+.
As you can see overall its a 2.29 which equates to a C+ since my scale was A=4, B=3, C=2, and D=1. A B- would have been 2.5. So 2.25 is the dividing line for a C+.

I gave Clady a C because we could have chosen any OT not named Jake Long and we took the one who played against the worst level of competition and therefore least proven...and probably least pro ready. That doesnt mean he's a bad player but its in relation to who we could have had.

I changed my grade on Royal. I like him as a player but there were other areas I would have emphasized here and drafting him meant forgoing something more important...not only that this was a frustration foul by Shanahan because we wasted a 2nd in getting Walker and Shanahan is going ahab on us with his quest to land Devin Hester. If he likes Hester so much, whey did we kick to him.

Broncomutt
10-02-2009, 12:42 PM
Us unreasonable fans still represent the entire fan base. Listen to the crowd boo in the home opener, we were winning at the time. If you can't handle this fact, you are the one that isn't a good Bronco fan....

This is a terrifying statement. A see of orange out for an afternoon to boo their favorite team....when it's winning.

I....I...you got me jhns, seriously dude, you got me.

/speechless

Kaylore
10-02-2009, 12:46 PM
What do you guys hope to prove with these lists?
I'm not going to do anything other than post what many here have said at the beginning of the season. How is revisiting what people here have written mean-spirited? I will offer minimal commentary and let their words stand for themselves.

We don't even know who is wrong or right yet. I maintain there is a lot of season left. I think it's fine if you make predictions, but half the fun is looking back. I have done this every year I've been here, and this year there were quite of few Nostradamus' and I think they should get their credit. :brokehalo

I will say this is the first year that SoCal wasn't scared of the Chiefs. Every offseason he would tell me how he was afraid of them, and every year they would suck.

To anyone that has something thrown in their face, just make it a game. Football is all about speculation. Everyone that tries to bring something up has said some pretty retarded stuff. Go find it and show them that they aren't smarter than you. It is funny to see what you and others have said in the past. I know I have said many dumb things.
This is the best way to deal with things. We've all been wrong. I was wrong about Moss, Lelie, and Coach Bates (both). And that's just a few of the big ones. Just laugh and move on.

lex
10-02-2009, 12:46 PM
oops...



and later...

Yeah, I dont see whats so bad. I hardly called Clady a crap pick. I would have preferred Otah because I felt they needed to address the running game. But also I said OT and RB were the positions of value at 12.

But where Clady is concerned, on one hand, having him there made it easy to pass over 600 times but on the other hand, having him over there made it too tempting to pass over 600 times. Also, there was a thread where the draft was being discussed (that I posted the link to) where I said I wasnt really annoyed with the Clady pick. I think I gave Clady a C pick as a wait and see. If I said he was a crappy pick, I would have given that pick an F like other picks.

Its kind of ironic too that, much of my criticism was validated by how they drafted this year. They took a RB in the 1st and a run blocking TE in the 2nd. So the people who are trying to defend Josh are also defending my observations that were made a year in advance.

Eldorado
10-02-2009, 12:50 PM
Yeah, I dont see whats so bad. .....

I thought it was pretty clear.

B

We should have taken Branden Albert or Chris Williams.

lex
10-02-2009, 12:57 PM
I thought it was pretty clear.

Yeah, but again, it all ties back to the running game. Mike Mayock raved about Alberts ability to pull and move and then block in space. Williams played in a tougher conference and was supposed to be a better run blocker based on what was observed against tougher competition than what Clady saw. It also wasnt public knowledge at that time that Williams had a bad back. I also like Otah more than Clady, I think.

And then here we are a year later and the first thing the coach that many are defending is makes picks that are in line with what I was saying a year ago--that we need to address the running game.

Clady was the best pass blocker in that draft. I wanted more in the running game. And, like I said in the draft thread, I wasnt as averse to the Clady pick...I said the whole time that OT and RB were the positions of value at 12. Where the bigger grievance existed was taking Torain. It seemed like the team was being set up to appease Cutler when we needed more balance. I said as much then. I never said Clady was a crap pick. My criticism was driven moving towards an lack of offensive balance. If I thought Clady was a crap pick, I would have given him an F.

Popps
10-02-2009, 01:06 PM
I'm not going to do anything other than post what many here have said at the beginning of the season.

The new angle is the "real fan" defense. Instead of just owning the ridiculous overreactions and horribly ill-fated predictions, a counter-attack has ensued charging people of essentially causing them to behave so ridiculously.

People have made silly claims... and been proven wrong. So, instead of manning up, they're just going on the offensive. Pretty goofy, really.

As a majority of us said in the preseason, the club was moving in the right direction and we needed much more evidence before we could chastise anyone.

Certainly being fans, the majority of us remained as upbeat about the team as possible. But, others jumped ship or turned troll, and now the history re-write is taking place.

It sure seems that, like you said... just admitting an overreaction would be much simpler.

Rohirrim
10-02-2009, 01:07 PM
I'm not going to do anything other than post what many here have said at the beginning of the season. How is revisiting what people here have written mean-spirited? I will offer minimal commentary and let their words stand for themselves.

We don't even know who is wrong or right yet. I maintain there is a lot of season left. I think it's fine if you make predictions, but half the fun is looking back. I have done this every year I've been here, and this year there were quite of few Nostradamus' and I think they should get their credit. :brokehalo

I will say this is the first year that SoCal wasn't scared of the Chiefs. Every offseason he would tell me how he was afraid of them, and every year they would suck.


This is the best way to deal with things. We've all been wrong. I was wrong about Moss, Lelie, and Coach Bates (both). And that's just a few of the big ones. Just laugh and move on.

Yeah. Just look at me. I still think I'm right about Maualuga. Nnyah!

lex
10-02-2009, 01:09 PM
The new angle is the "real fan" defense. Instead of just owning the ridiculous overreactions and horribly ill-fated predictions, a counter-attack has ensued charging people of essentially causing them to behave so ridiculously.

People have made silly claims... and been proven wrong. So, instead of manning up, they're just going on the offensive. Pretty goofy, really.

As a majority of us said in the preseason, the club was moving in the right direction and we needed much more evidence before we could chastise anyone.

Certainly being fans, the majority of us remained as upbeat about the team as possible. But, others jumped ship or turned troll, and now the history re-write is taking place.

It sure seems that, like you said... just admitting an overreaction would be much simpler.

Please! Youre one of the people who were justifying 4-12 in advance. Justifying 4-12 in advance would require acknowledgement that they could/would go 4-12. Youre no better than what people of your ilk like to call the naysayers.

lex
10-02-2009, 01:10 PM
Yeah. Just look at me. I still think I'm right about Maualuga. Nnyah!

Is he out for the season?

Eldorado
10-02-2009, 01:14 PM
yeah, but again, it all ties back to the running game. Blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah. Blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahbl ahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah blahblah

rofl.

lex
10-02-2009, 01:16 PM
rofl.


OK, well what I said has been validated by the fact that upgrading the running game was front and center this past draft.

TailgateNut
10-02-2009, 01:18 PM
rofl.


:notworthy:spit:

It's almost time for Lex to start his strategic planning for Bronco losses to gain an advantage in next years' draft.ROFL!

Rohirrim
10-02-2009, 01:23 PM
Is he out for the season?

He's "probable" for the Browns game Sunday.

Eldorado
10-02-2009, 01:23 PM
OK, well what I said has been validated by the fact that upgrading the running game was front and center this past draft.

Oh, ok. 'cause if we didn't have the oline well under control with young talent (thanks mike!, luv josh) McD definitely would have eschewed o-line in favor of a RB.

Seriously. How can you say that? McD had the luxury of drafting a RB high.

lex
10-02-2009, 01:29 PM
Oh, ok. 'cause if we didn't have the oline well under control with young talent (thanks mike!, luv josh) McD definitely would have eschewed o-line in favor of a RB.

Seriously. How can you say that? McD had the luxury of drafting a RB high.

Youre response would have more meaning if had been averse to taking OT last year. And I totally agree that the OL is/was the foundation for success, although I think Hamilton gets ragdolled too much in the running game. But, overall, its an excellent offensive line and a foundation of the offense. I also agree that McDaniels is benefitting from the foundation that Shanahan left behind. But they could have taken RB high last year as well. The team did a lot to upgrade the passing game. It wasnt just taking the best pass blocking OT and then taking Royal...remember, it was also trading for Colbert in a trade. There was every indication that Shanahan was going to appease Cutler last offseason by becoming a passing team.

lex
10-02-2009, 01:31 PM
He's "probable" for the Browns game Sunday.

I saw him being carted off and heard the announcers talking glumly about it. I had the impression he's out longer.

Kaylore
10-02-2009, 01:31 PM
Yeah. Just look at me. I still think I'm right about Maualuga. Nnyah!

I do! Two games in and because he blew up Eddie Royal now he's the bomb? He's horrible on play action and just because they keep things simple for him doesn't mean he's a good player. That sack he got was more bad blocking than him being great. I am not convinced of anything yet.

Eldorado
10-02-2009, 01:46 PM
Youre response would have more meaning if had been averse to taking OT last year. And I totally agree that the OL is/was the foundation for success, although I think Hamilton gets ragdolled too much in the running game. But, overall, its an excellent offensive line and a foundation of the offense. I also agree that McDaniels is benefitting from the foundation that Shanahan left behind. But they could have taken RB high last year as well. The team did a lot to upgrade the passing game. It wasnt just taking the best pass blocking OT and then taking Royal...remember, it was also trading for Colbert in a trade. There was every indication that Shanahan was going to appease Cutler last offseason by becoming a passing team.

Lex, you gave a C to what looks like will be one of the top 5 greatest 1st round draft choices in Broncos history. You stated explicitly that you would have rather taken Albert (a ****ing mess in KC) or williams (the back problems were public before the draft, I ****ing knew about 'em and I've never mocked a draft in my life). That is what this discusion is about. Your response would have a lot more meaning if you would just admit you were wrong about clady.

I'll hold my breath.

lex
10-02-2009, 01:50 PM
Lex, you gave a C to what looks like will be one of the top 5 greatest 1st round draft choices in Broncos history. You stated explicitly that you would have rather taken Albert (a ****ing mess in KC) or williams (the back problems were public before the draft, I ****ing knew about 'em and I've never mocked a draft in my life). That is what this discusion is about. Your response would have a lot more meaning if you would just admit you were wrong about clady.

I'll hold my breath.

I never said Clady was a crap pick. That was the issue that was raised. Again, if I thought it was a crap pick, I would have given that pick an F. I never questioned that he could pass block. You also have to remember that Ryan Harris or even Kuper could have possibly played LT so that afforded us an upgrade in the running game even if it meant it would have been someone like Otah and they would have played RT. Im most certainly glad he is a good player, although his strength as a pass blocker was known. Yeah, he's a good player but there are other good players that can be had at 12. But ulitmately, with every pick there is an element of risk and for that reason its nice when they can play (let alone be a stonewall as Clady has been) even though an upgrade in another direction was in order at the time.

tsiguy96
10-02-2009, 01:52 PM
the fact that lex still wont admit he was wrong about clady and that clady is the BEST player on this team tells you all you need to know about lex. hes still a dbag.

tsiguy96
10-02-2009, 01:55 PM
I never said Clady was a crap pick. That was the issue that was raised.

yes you did, immediately after the draft. you said the same thing about royal.

lex
10-02-2009, 01:59 PM
yes you did, immediately after the draft. you said the same thing about royal.


Link?

lex
10-02-2009, 02:03 PM
the fact that lex still wont admit he was wrong about clady and that clady is the BEST player on this team tells you all you need to know about lex. hes still a dbag.

How was I wrong about Clady? He's an excellent pass blocker. That was known coming out of college. I never disputed this. So, again, how was I wrong.

tsiguy96
10-02-2009, 02:05 PM
Link?

ooops that was wolfe, not you

regardless, lots of stupidness on this thread. funny how its the same people who can constantly predict wahts going to happen, but are always wrong

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=68019&highlight=royal

Lev Vyvanse
10-02-2009, 02:05 PM
How was I wrong about Clady? He's an excellent pass blocker. That was known coming out of college. I never disputed this. So, again, how was I wrong.

You said he was the fifth best tackle in that draft. I'd say that counts as being wrong.

lex
10-02-2009, 02:08 PM
ooops that was wolfe, not you

regardless, lots of stupidness on this thread. funny how its the same people who can constantly predict wahts going to happen, but are always wrong

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=68019&highlight=royal

No kidding.

tsiguy96
10-02-2009, 02:09 PM
dr. broncenstein is particularly ****ing retarded

<!-- / icon and title --> <!-- message --> Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

If we were in the market for a midget wideout with return skills, DeSean Jackson would have made more sense. I would have taken Connor, Campbell, Sweed, Kelly, Doucet.... actually the list of who I wouldn't take over Royal at 42 would be shorter. What a pathetic reach.


blueflame hit it right on the head
Not impressed with this pick. At all. I think it was a gigantic reach.

lex
10-02-2009, 02:12 PM
You said he was the fifth best tackle in that draft. I'd say that counts as being wrong.

Once again, did I actually say he couldnt play? Were the rankings not based on upgrading the running game? Trust me. I value Clady especially coming off a season where we passed 600 times. Im still not so sure it wouldnt have been better to take someone who was more of a run blocker and move harris or kuper to LT. But its funny that I havent complained about Clady given the fact that we threw the ball 600 times last year and needed a great pass blocker for that reason.

Eldorado
10-02-2009, 02:14 PM
How was I wrong about Clady? He's an excellent pass blocker. That was known coming out of college. I never disputed this. So, again, how was I wrong.

http://sultanofsnow.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/monty-python-black-knight-with-one-arm-off-794357.jpg

lex
10-02-2009, 02:20 PM
http://sultanofsnow.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/monty-python-black-knight-with-one-arm-off-794357.jpg

?

Miss I.
10-02-2009, 02:22 PM
?

Ahhh, I believe he is implying you refuse to admit being wrong just as the knight refuse to surrender and kept claiming it was just a flesh wound. ;D

lex
10-02-2009, 02:25 PM
Ahhh, I believe he is implying you refuse to admit being wrong just as the knight refuse to surrender and kept claiming it was just a flesh wound. ;D

I realize that but Im still waiting for them to show me where I said Clady couldnt play. When we were passing the ball 600 times, I was all about Clady. That doesnt mean we should have passed 600 times though.

I said the best way to help Cutler was to not make him do it himself.

Lev Vyvanse
10-02-2009, 02:26 PM
I’m INVINCIBLE.

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lex
10-02-2009, 02:27 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4mgworW0NHY&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4mgworW0NHY&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Once again, youd have traction if you could find somewhere, that I said Clady couldnt play.

mr007
10-02-2009, 02:27 PM
ooops that was wolfe, not you

regardless, lots of stupidness on this thread. funny how its the same people who can constantly predict wahts going to happen, but are always wrong

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=68019&highlight=royal

Yeah, shocker... and you never fall into that category.::)

Lev Vyvanse
10-02-2009, 02:29 PM
Once again, youd have traction if you could find somewhere, that I said Clady couldnt play.

You were wrong because you said he was the fifth best tackle in the draft.

lex
10-02-2009, 02:34 PM
You were wrong because you said he was the fifth best tackle in the draft.

Id like you to provide a link to this. Its not that I doubt you but Im pretty sure it ties into upgrading the running game.

If Im going to pass 600 times, Id take Clady but I felt more balance was in order.

Lev Vyvanse
10-02-2009, 03:04 PM
I'll put it this way. Let’s say you are starting a new team. If you were drafting a tackle and your choices are Williams, Alberts, Otah, and Clady what’s your pick? You are on the clock.

Eldorado
10-02-2009, 03:07 PM
Mine's clady.

lex
10-02-2009, 03:09 PM
I'll put it this way. Let’s say you are starting a new team. If you were drafting a tackle and your choices are Williams, Alberts, Otah, and Clady what’s your pick? You are on the clock.

Ive already answered that. If we need to improve the running game and have Harris or Kuper who could likely play LT, Id take Otah or Alberts. If we're going to pass 600 times, Im taking Clady.

But having said that, we did pass 600 times last year, which really highlighted Clady as a player and I really appreciate what that is. I also like how he carries himself, but still, I think we should have approached last offseason like we need more balance and not in a way that put it all on Jay's shoulders.

Eldorado
10-02-2009, 03:11 PM
wtf?

Lev Vyvanse
10-02-2009, 03:14 PM
Ive already answered that. If we need to improve the running game and have Harris or Kuper who could likely play LT, Id take Otah or Alberts. If we're going to pass 600 times, Im taking Clady.

Ahh, it all makes sense now. You know for minute there Lex I thought you were wrong.

Eldorado
10-02-2009, 03:14 PM
Ive already answered that. If we need to improve the running game and have Harris or Kuper who could likely play LT, Id take Otah or Alberts. If we're going to pass 600 times, Im taking Clady.

But having said that, we did pass 600 times last year, which really highlighted Clady as a player and I really appreciate what that is. I also like how he carries himself, but still, I think we should have approached last offseason like we need more balance and not in a way that put it all on Jay's shoulders.

I'm quoting this before you edit it again.

Eldorado
10-02-2009, 03:20 PM
Ahh, it all makes sense now. You know for minute there Lex I thought you were wrong.

He's got me convinced! Lets trade clady straight up for albert!! We'd be more balanced!!

BroncoBuff
10-02-2009, 03:23 PM
oops...



and later...

ouch!

lex
10-02-2009, 03:28 PM
He's got me convinced! Lets trade clady straight up for albert!! We'd be more balanced!!

No, at this point in time, I like having Clady on our side but, having said that, if in the same position, Id probably go with trying to upgrade the running game.

Eldorado
10-02-2009, 03:31 PM
No, at this point in time, I like having Clady on our side now but, having said that, if in the same position, Id probably go with trying to upgrade the running game.

Oh, well, in that case...

:thumbsup:

Lev Vyvanse
10-02-2009, 03:34 PM
No, at this point in time, I like having Clady on our side but, having said that, if in the same position, Id probably go with trying to upgrade the running game.

Now that wasn't that difficult was it?

lex
10-02-2009, 03:35 PM
Oh, well, in that case...

:thumbsup:

Yeah, I guess maybe the offseason has made me kind of clingy about the guys we already had on the roster before the regime change. Plus, Ive grown attached...I like how Clady carries himself.

Eldorado
10-02-2009, 03:37 PM
http://www.bimmerfest.com/photos/data/500/medium/roflcopter.jpg

lex
10-02-2009, 03:40 PM
Now that wasn't that difficult was it?

The conversation was originally presented like I thought Clady was garbage and that he was a crap pick. It was more about being more balanced and not about Clady being "garbage". I still think the way the team was constructed was flawed last year but thats not on Clady. 600 passes was our downfall and a big part of our problems in the red zone but thats probably more about other people than Clady.

Eldorado
10-02-2009, 03:44 PM
No, at this point in time, I like having Clady on our side but, having said that, if in the same position, Id probably go with trying to upgrade the running game.

Too be clear, what you are saying is given the chance at a do over of last year, you would have drafted a running back, alberts or otah instead of clady?

lex
10-02-2009, 03:48 PM
Too be clear, what you are saying is given the chance at a do over of last year, you would have drafted a running back, alberts or otah instead of clady?

Wow. All these questions. Understand that it was more than this one pick. It was a whole offseason. Previously I mentioned that they brought in Jackson, Colbert, Parker, etc at WR (not that any of them were great but they were clearly trying to upgrade at WR...we had Martinez remember?). Then they draft the best pass blocking OT and a WR in the 2nd. The writing was on the wall that they were going to be all about the pass. Perhaps I would have felt differently about the Clady pick if more was done otherwise about having balance on offense.

Lev Vyvanse
10-02-2009, 03:49 PM
Too be clear

Did you just ask Lex to be clear?:rofl::rofl:

Lev Vyvanse
10-02-2009, 03:50 PM
Told ya.

BroncoBuff
10-02-2009, 03:54 PM
lex, you gotta come correct on Clady. Back away from that nonsense ... he's the best OT in the league right now.


That said, no fair dredging up two-year old pre-draft evaluations ... lots of guys get that stuff wrong. Not me so much, but lots of guys.

I kid, but before th '07 draft, myself (and the dearly departed Slap) advocated trading that #1 (ended up Jarvis) and the '08 #1 (ended up Clady) to move up for Patrick Willis. And after that draft I felt any pair of Lepsis/Harris/Pears was a pretty decent LT unit I also advocated trading the #2 (Crowder) and next #2 (Royal) for Kris Jenkins. I love Royal, but had we made that trade, Shanahan would still be here.

Three problems with a Clady prediction/advocacy pre-draft '08 draft: 1) Nobody thought he'd fall to us at 12 (actually SoCal predicted that, it seemed like a stretch, but he was right), 2) - there were EIGHT tackles taken in the first round, so trading back was a reasonable strategy, and 3) After the offensive abundance of that historic '06 draft, trading back and going defense defense would have been a very reasonable strategy.

lex
10-02-2009, 04:12 PM
lex, you gotta come correct on Clady. Back away from that nonsense ... he's the best OT in the league right now.

I dont dispute that he is the best pass blocker in the league and also that because there is a premium on that, he is what could generally be considered to be the best LT in the game. Ive also said I like having him on our side. But like Ive said the whole time, having him at LT made it really easy to let Jay throw the ball 600 times last year. The fact that we were pass happy last year was our downfall. That has more to do with other people than it does Clady. If I thought another OT, like Otah, would have made our team more balanced, I would have gone that route...and still would.

Furthermore, over the past several years the running game has been decaying from neglect. As a result they were minimizing what should have been a strength.

Also, Jay was/is still a young QB and the best way to help that was to not make him do it all himself.

All of this factored into why I would have gone with doing more to upgrade the running game.

Eldorado
10-02-2009, 04:28 PM
Can somebody put this **** in the rof? This is awesome.

lex
10-02-2009, 04:57 PM
Can somebody put this **** in the rof? This is awesome.

You dont think we were too pass happy last year?