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Garcia Bronco
09-30-2009, 11:03 AM
It's over bought and over priced and the bubble will burst.

Carry on. :)

Bob
09-30-2009, 11:10 AM
It's over bought and over priced and the bubble will burst.

Carry on. :)

Where are we today anyway? I dont doubt we will pull back a few times, as it goes upward but the trend will be up until we get spending under control. Do we have spending under control? Nope.

Rohirrim
09-30-2009, 11:21 AM
When I first read this I thought it said "Golf is now a bad investment."

SPfloppy
09-30-2009, 12:07 PM
Golf is a bad investment? Yep that pretty much sums it up for my game. and yet I play anyway? Hmm an analogy of today's US

loborugger
09-30-2009, 12:58 PM
I was thinking the same thing, Garcia.

Gold fluctuates with the dollar. Ie, the dollar goes down, gold goes up.

I read that 90+ percent of investors expect the dollar to go down... usually when everyone lines up on side of the issue, it goes the other way.

Now, I dont think Gold is done for good. I think its just overpriced for right now. With the govt cranking out fiat currency by the tons, I think the long term for gold is good.

SPfloppy
09-30-2009, 01:15 PM
The gold standard...on of these days someone in this nation within the Treasury dept will realize what it means

Garcia Bronco
09-30-2009, 01:36 PM
I was thinking the same thing, Garcia.

Gold fluctuates with the dollar. Ie, the dollar goes down, gold goes up.

I read that 90+ percent of investors expect the dollar to go down... usually when everyone lines up on side of the issue, it goes the other way.

Now, I dont think Gold is done for good. I think its just overpriced for right now. With the govt cranking out fiat currency by the tons, I think the long term for gold is good.

I think Gold will go back down.

watermock
09-30-2009, 01:47 PM
this is a false rally in stocks.

The market will test 6000 again.

Garcia Bronco
09-30-2009, 02:32 PM
this is a false rally in stocks.

The market will test 6000 again.

A rally is something that happens over a short period of time which I woudl call a month. We've had over a quarter. It can go down at any time. But I think we are past the point of a "rally"

watermock
09-30-2009, 03:30 PM
Alot of ARMs reset next month in commercial paper,AND resdential.

loborugger
09-30-2009, 04:52 PM
I think Gold will go back down.

What do you think it will get down to?

And what do you base that on?

Arkie
10-03-2009, 09:50 PM
I think the dow had a six month rally that topped at 9830.

mhgaffney
10-05-2009, 08:19 PM
the gold bubble?

You must be an idiot.

baja
10-05-2009, 10:05 PM
It's over bought and over priced and the bubble will burst.

Carry on. :)Boy are you in for a surprise in the near future.

Rohirrim
10-06-2009, 07:38 AM
Read about all the nations that are ready to dump the dollar and switch to gold. I'm guessing gold goes through the roof. Wish I had some money to buy some.

Arkie
10-07-2009, 02:32 PM
Gold's been over $1,040 for 27 hours now.

Garcia Bronco
10-07-2009, 02:37 PM
It's going to burst and it's over inflated just like any object. Now if you got in 5 years ago...great, but it's not going to 2000's an ounce. It's no different than oil speculation. Just watch.

Garcia Bronco
10-07-2009, 03:03 PM
What do you think it will get down to?

And what do you base that on?

I think you'll see it go down to 750. It's at an all time high and unless something is fixing the market....it has to go back down.

Arkie
10-07-2009, 03:05 PM
We're not even halfway to gold's peak in real terms if you look at the cycle. Think about selling when it's over $2,000.

Meck77
10-07-2009, 08:54 PM
Great site to find physical gold in any city USA...

http://www.coininfo.com/coin_dealers/

cutthemdown
10-07-2009, 09:34 PM
We're not even halfway to gold's peak in real terms if you look at the cycle. Think about selling when it's over $2,000.

When will that be 2030? Certainly you don't expect a 100% increase do you? I mean anytime soon?

Gold won't go much higher and will stay around 1000.

TexanBob
10-07-2009, 10:05 PM
Ian Gold? I agree. Bad value. Ha!

baja
10-08-2009, 12:18 AM
I think you'll see it go down to 750. It's at an all time high and unless something is fixing the market....it has to go back down.

I like you Garcia but I gotta tell ya you are mistaken so very often on this forum.

cutthemdown
10-08-2009, 02:43 AM
It wont sink to 750.00 I think it will continue to go above 1000, then down to say 900, then back up.

IMO predicting 2000 is a huge reach.

Garcia Bronco
10-08-2009, 05:06 AM
I like you Garcia but I gotta tell ya you are mistaken so very often on this forum.

Not often at all. It's a commodity just like oil. And it'll burst just like oil. So if you are getting now you'll lose money.

Arkie
10-08-2009, 09:55 AM
When will that be 2030? Certainly you don't expect a 100% increase do you? I mean anytime soon?

Gold won't go much higher and will stay around 1000.

Gold will spike 100% at the end of the cycle due to speculative mania. I think the cycle will end sometime within the next couple years, specifically mid-2010. I think it could be anywhere from $1500-2500, then it will drop 50% almost as quickly as it spiked.

Tombstone RJ
10-08-2009, 11:06 AM
Its the whole "Cash For Gold" scam. It's totally screwing everyone. Flooding the market with recycled gold.

I say invest in pyrite... be ahead of the curve.

cutthemdown
10-08-2009, 01:02 PM
Gold will spike 100% at the end of the cycle due to speculative mania. I think the cycle will end sometime within the next couple years, specifically mid-2010. I think it could be anywhere from $1500-2500, then it will drop 50% almost as quickly as it spiked.

Ok I will bet you 1 ounce of gold that it doesn't reach 2000 by the middle of 2010. I have like 20 1 ounce coins so it won't be a problem for me to pay up.

cutthemdown
10-08-2009, 01:05 PM
Its the whole "Cash For Gold" scam. It's totally screwing everyone. Flooding the market with recycled gold.

I say invest in pyrite... be ahead of the curve.

National Geographic did a great piece on gold about a yr ago. According to them most of the gold ever mined still in existence. Like you said it gets recycled.

Over 80% of the demand for gold is still for Jewelry not investment to hold onto.

And even though people think there is a lot of gold, you could only fill a couple olympic sized swimming pools with all the gold that has ever been mined.

cutthemdown
10-08-2009, 01:07 PM
If an ounce is to much for you Arkie we can just bet something like having to make a thread once a week saying how great I am, Or me the same for you!!!!

Your choice

cutthemdown
10-08-2009, 01:08 PM
Gold will spike 100% at the end of the cycle due to speculative mania. I think the cycle will end sometime within the next couple years, specifically mid-2010. I think it could be anywhere from $1500-2500, then it will drop 50% almost as quickly as it spiked.

Also the last time I challeneged someone was the draft. This guy, cant remember his name, swore Rey Malauga would slide out of first. I said 100 bucks says he doesn't. He wouldn't bet!!!!

He would have won.

cutthemdown
10-08-2009, 01:10 PM
Not often at all. It's a commodity just like oil. And it'll burst just like oil. So if you are getting now you'll lose money.

It's hard to buy gold when its over 1000 an ounce.

The thing is unless you have a ton, will make a ton of money, it's not worth selling. For little investors the service charge of exchanging and buying gold cuts into it.

Also any real amounts of gold need to be stored and that costs money.

For the avg Joe Silver usually a better bet.

Arkie
10-08-2009, 05:40 PM
Sassy started this thread two years ago. We were speculating if gold would ever break $1000. Some us (Baja and I) were talking about $2000. Strangly, this 10-page thread died on 3/3/08 just 10 days before gold broke $1000. :(

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=62814

Arkie
11-09-2009, 08:21 AM
Gold went over $1100 last Friday. It's been above $1100 all morning, and nobody even noticed. We are becoming desensitized. There was more hysteria on the rise through the 800s and 900s. I think the Bigs will take it up to $1250 or so, then sell it off, and try to shake out the little guys. It will be a great buying opportunity at $850, then its taking off for $2000+

ak1971
11-09-2009, 08:27 AM
Gold went over $1100 last Friday. It's been above $1100 all morning, and nobody even noticed. We are becoming desensitized. There was more hysteria on the rise through the 800s and 900s. I think the Bigs will take it up to $1250 or so, then sell it off, and try to shake out the little guys. It will be a great buying opportunity at $850, then its taking off for $2000+

couldnt agree with you more...are you going to short anything to try to take advantage of the bounce?

baja
11-09-2009, 09:38 AM
Damn I made a bad investment ;D

baja
11-09-2009, 09:39 AM
Gold went over $1100 last Friday. It's been above $1100 all morning, and nobody even noticed. We are becoming desensitized. There was more hysteria on the rise through the 800s and 900s. I think the Bigs will take it up to $1250 or so, then sell it off, and try to shake out the little guys. It will be a great buying opportunity at $850, then its taking off for $2000+

This is the popular reasoning but I don't think we will see a sell off.

ak1971
11-09-2009, 09:46 AM
This is the popular reasoning but I don't think we will see a sell off.

the BVI is at an all time high!....run!

Arkie
11-09-2009, 10:07 AM
couldnt agree with you more...are you going to short anything to try to take advantage of the bounce?

I'm not. The only thing about gold that I'm more sure of than breaking the $2000 barrier, is that it's very volatile. Guessing the timing is like guessing who's going to win MNF tonight. (Go Broncos!) If you sell over $2000, then anything under, even $1999 is a good buy. $850 is a great buy, but I'm not going to risk what I have to get it. I'm just not as confident that we'll see $850 before $2000. I think it will happen, but not enough to risk it, or pay capital gains taxes, or pay the premium to buy it back. It's a lot easier to bet on the underdogs tonight and take the points. lol

ak1971
11-09-2009, 11:27 AM
I'm not. The only thing about gold that I'm more sure of than breaking the $2000 barrier, is that it's very volatile. Guessing the timing is like guessing who's going to win MNF tonight. (Go Broncos!) If you sell over $2000, then anything under, even $1999 is a good buy. $850 is a great buy, but I'm not going to risk what I have to get it. I'm just not as confident that we'll see $850 before $2000. I think it will happen, but not enough to risk it, or pay capital gains taxes, or pay the premium to buy it back. It's a lot easier to bet on the underdogs tonight and take the points. lol

I put a hedge on with some other stuff a few weeks ago...now with this spike over the past week, I think I was waaaay to early.

baja
11-09-2009, 01:38 PM
I never looked at gold as a way to make 'money'.

watermock
11-09-2009, 02:36 PM
I pasted an article how gold price on the comex is fixed (in particular by the US fed) even more than oil.

China and India are hoarding Gold both privately and publicly, along with other commodities both refined and raw because of the uncertainty of the dollar.

If all the options were taken delivery of, the spike in gold would be at least 1000.

Why? Crude Oil is worthless unless it's refined and consumed, all the gold in the world could be placed in 1 vault for a million years..there is no place to even put all the oil if it were to be taken delivery of.

ak1971
11-10-2009, 06:50 AM
I never looked at gold as a way to make 'money'.

trade that **** brother!

Garcia Bronco
11-10-2009, 07:01 AM
I pasted an article how gold price on the comex is fixed (in particular by the US fed) even more than oil.

China and India are hoarding Gold both privately and publicly, along with other commodities both refined and raw because of the uncertainty of the dollar.

If all the options were taken delivery of, the spike in gold would be at least 1000.

Why? Crude Oil is worthless unless it's refined and consumed, all the gold in the world could be placed in 1 vault for a million years..there is no place to even put all the oil if it were to be taken delivery of.

Which is why oil has been a good buy.

watermock
11-10-2009, 09:17 AM
Which is why oil has been a good buy.

Are you prepared to take delivery? Ha!

Gonna put a 50,000 tank out back?

Bob
11-10-2009, 11:56 AM
Boy are you in for a surprise in the near future.

I wonder if people know how much we are printing? How can we have anything but inflation -- and when we do -- Gold will go up at first. But one cannot eat it, and think that a better investment for average folks are those simple preparations one can take of having some extra food, etc.

Tombstone RJ
11-11-2009, 03:11 PM
I pasted an article how gold price on the comex is fixed (in particular by the US fed) even more than oil.

China and India are hoarding Gold both privately and publicly, along with other commodities both refined and raw because of the uncertainty of the dollar.

If all the options were taken delivery of, the spike in gold would be at least 1000.

Why? Crude Oil is worthless unless it's refined and consumed, all the gold in the world could be placed in 1 vault for a million years..there is no place to even put all the oil if it were to be taken delivery of.

The thing about gold is that yes, it's a precious metal but it's only real function is for jewelry or for hoarding in a vault somewhere.

In other words, it has no real use (yes, yes, there are some practical applications but overall it's a static commodity).

If everyone's economy tanks, if the world goes into a deep depression, if the US economy goes down the stink hole, what will all of this do to the price of gold? In other words, who is gonna want gold and why would they want it?

What does it matter if you have a billion $ in gold if no one can use it?

I'd rather be financially vested is something that everyone NEEDS. Titanium, platinum, etc...

Just saying...

baja
11-11-2009, 03:24 PM
The thing about gold is that yes, it's a precious metal but it's only real function is for jewelry or for hoarding in a vault somewhere.

In other words, it has no real use (yes, yes, there are some practical applications but overall it's a static commodity).

If everyone's economy tanks, if the world goes into a deep depression, if the US economy goes down the stink hole, what will all of this do to the price of gold? In other words, who is gonna want gold and why would they want it?

What does it matter if you have a billion $ in gold if no one can use it?

I'd rather be financially vested is something that everyone NEEDS. Titanium, platinum, etc...

Just saying...

It will become the only accepted currency.

Sex for gold...y

Arkie
11-11-2009, 06:02 PM
The thing about gold is that yes, it's a precious metal but it's only real function is for jewelry or for hoarding in a vault somewhere.

In other words, it has no real use (yes, yes, there are some practical applications but overall it's a static commodity).

If everyone's economy tanks, if the world goes into a deep depression, if the US economy goes down the stink hole, what will all of this do to the price of gold? In other words, who is gonna want gold and why would they want it?

What does it matter if you have a billion $ in gold if no one can use it?

I'd rather be financially vested is something that everyone NEEDS. Titanium, platinum, etc...

Just saying...

The federal reserve note has no more real practical application than gold. It's just paper if it ever gets to the physical realm. Hundreds of trillions never leave the digital realm of abstract digits. It's mathmatically impossible to repay the black hole of debt, but they will continue to inflate the dollar into nothing.

http://www.shadowstats.com/imgs/2009/503/monetary-base.gif

watermock
11-11-2009, 06:22 PM
Jeepers. That's insanity defined.

Well, they restocked the casino for banks with $1 dollar chips worth 25 cents yet the only jobs being created are in Governent, eduction and health care. Once again, manufactring takes another hit it won't recover from.

Cap and trade is next. At least for the US, Canada and the EU.

baja
11-11-2009, 08:20 PM
Jeepers. That's insanity defined.

Well, they restocked the casino for banks with $1 dollar chips worth 25 cents yet the only jobs being created are in Governent, eduction and health care. Once again, manufactring takes another hit it won't recover from.

Cap and trade is next. At least for the US, Canada and the EU.

Cap & Trade, the Hiroshima of the war on national sovereignty.

watermock
11-12-2009, 03:38 AM
The thing about gold is that yes, it's a precious metal but it's only real function is for jewelry or for hoarding in a vault somewhere.

In other words, it has no real use (yes, yes, there are some practical applications but overall it's a static commodity).

If everyone's economy tanks, if the world goes into a deep depression, if the US economy goes down the stink hole, what will all of this do to the price of gold? In other words, who is gonna want gold and why would they want it?

What does it matter if you have a billion $ in gold if no one can use it?

I'd rather be financially vested is something that everyone NEEDS. Titanium, platinum, etc...

Just saying...


gold is valuable becauise they have to claw it out from your cold, dead hands.

Let me ask you this.

Diamonds are rocks. They are worth nothing.

watermock
11-12-2009, 03:41 AM
Inertness

Gold's most important property is, perhaps more accurately, a lack of a property. It is chemically inert; that is, it doesn't react with other chemicals. This means that it is permanent. Whereas iron rusts away and copper gets covered in a green coating over time (verdigris), gold stays exactly the way it is.

There are a few chemical substances that can attack gold: the most notable is called aqua regia (literally, 'royal water') and is made from a mixture of hydrochloric acid and nitric acid. This is sometimes used for etching a gold surface. Another is sodium cyanide (NaCN) which is used in the extraction of gold from ore. These are unusual, though, and in general, gold is safe from attack by most chemicals.

Beauty

Gold and copper are the only pure elemental metals that have a colour. All other metals have a silvery-grey look. Copper is arguably as beautiful as gold, but it doesn't keep that look for long, because copper very quickly gets coated in a dirty tarnish and over time turns green. Because gold is chemically inert, it retains its colour more-or-less forever. Golden jewellery from thousands of years ago is as beautiful now as it was when it was made.

Ductility

Ductility is the ability to be stretched into a wire. Gold is the most ductile metal and can be made into very thin wire which can be used for the most intricate of decoration in the style known as filigree. A single gram of gold can be stretched into a wire 3.2km long.

Malleability

Malleability is the ability to be hammered out into a flat sheet. Gold is the most malleable metal by far. It can be flattened into sheets only four-millionths of an inch thick (100 nanometres) without breaking. A gram of gold can be flattened into a sheet with an area of 0.6 square metres (6.7 sq ft). Such sheets of gold, known as gold leaf are so thin that they are slightly transparent - the light shining through is green in colour, giving us the bizarre fact that gold is 'green inside'.

Gold leaf is used in decoration: it can be used in frescoes, ceiling ornaments or on furniture to give an opulent look. It is also sometimes used in India as decoration in cookery - slivers of gold leaf adorn certain desserts. And yes, you are supposed to eat it!

Industrial properties

Gold also has properties which make it useful in industry. It is a good conductor of electricity. Although not as good a conductor as copper, gold does not tarnish so it is very good for exposed contacts such as in slot-in boards in computer equipment. It is also used for the tiny connections to silicon chips in integrated circuits.

An ultra-thin coating of gold on glass can reflect 98% of infra-red light while letting through visible light. This is used on the windows of some office buildings in hot countries to reduce the effect of heating by the sun. The gold coating also reflects ultra-violet light and other potentially dangerous high energy radiation, so it is also used on the visors of space suits and the windscreens of high-altitude aircraft to protect the people inside from radiation. A single gram of gold can be used to coat 10 m2 of glass.

Gold is also used in its pure form for some tooth fillings. These are expensive but are still popular with some dentists.

One final important use of gold is as a catalyst in certain chemical reactions - for example, in the oxidation of carbon monoxide. This is important in air-conditioning systems to remove poisonous carbon monoxide from the air.

(In a parody of this, Dr Who's enemies the Cybermen are killed by the addition of gold dust to their breathing apparatus).

A Puzzle

Which weighs more, an ounce of feathers or an ounce of gold?

The correct answer, paradoxically, is an ounce of gold, because gold is traditionally weighed using special units called 'Troy ounces', probably named after the medieval trading city of Troyes. An ounce of gold always means a Troy ounce, which is 31.1g, about 10% greater than a normal ounce. This entry will use grams throughout, but bear in mind when looking up information on gold, that if ounces are mentioned, that they are these 'special' ounces.

Gold and Money

Since gold was the most valuable metal available in antiquity, it was used from Greek and Roman times as money. The earliest use of gold in coins dates from about 700BC in Greece, although the gold is alloyed with silver (see Electrum later in this entry). Gold was used for coins by many different countries after this, even up to the 20th Century in Britain, where a 'sovereign' was a gold coin worth one pound.

In England in 1698, Sir Isaac Newton was put in charge of the Royal Mint. In 1717, he decided that the economy was best served by setting a standard price for gold of four pound five shillings per troy ounce. In 1816, this 'gold standard' was adopted as the basis for the currency. Gold was considered to hold its value even in times of war or economic depression, so it became the fundamental unit of currency. Every banknote bore the legend 'I promise to pay the bearer one pound sterling'. This meant that the note could be exchanged for an equivalent value in gold at the Bank of England.

The gold standard was adopted by Germany in 1871 and by the USA in 1900. Countries began to stockpile gold. By the beginning of the 21st Century, the USA was the world's greatest hoarder of gold, with over 8,000 tonnes of the stuff. Much of this was held in the famous Fort Knox.

Gold can be traded on the stock market as a commodity, and in fact more than 930 tonnes of gold are cleared through London every day. However, this is virtual gold which is bought and sold. No actual metal changes hands. The stock market price is artificially much higher than the actual value of the metal. This is not a good basis for any currency. This was brought home to the governments of the world in 1968 when gold was allowed to float freely rather than being fixed in price. At first the value rose, so that by 1980 it had reached a record high of US$850 per troy ounce. Then the price started to fall and by 1999 was down to less than a third of that. Now governments no longer use gold as the standard and are selling off their gold reserves.

Alloys

Pure gold is soft, which means that jewellery made from it can get damaged easily. To strengthen the gold, other metals are normally added - such a mixture of metals is called an alloy. The amount of gold in the alloy is indicated by a number of carats: 24-carat is pure gold, 12-carat is 50% gold, 50% other metals (by weight). Alloys can often have very different characteristics from the original gold, depending on what metals are added and in what quantities.

Yellow Gold Alloys

Yellow gold alloys are ones which have been designed to retain the golden colour of the metal. There are three main yellow gold alloys used in jewellery making:

9-carat gold is typically 9 parts of gold, 2 of silver, 11 of copper and 2 of zinc.
14-carat gold is typically 14 parts of gold, 1 of silver, 7 of copper and 2 of zinc.
18-carat gold is typically 18 parts of gold, 4 parts of silver and 2 parts of copper.
So: copper is the main ingredient of 9-carat gold!

White Gold Alloys

White gold alloys change the colour so that they look silvery or gray in colour. These aim to look as close to platinum as possible, without the expense of using platinum.

There are two main types of white gold alloy:

Nickel white gold uses nickel as the main ingredient other than gold. This is cheap, it strengthens the metal and it bleaches the gold to a colour very closely approximating platinum. But many people are allergic to nickel - it can cause dermatitis. A typical nickel white gold alloy has 18 parts of gold, 4 parts of nickel, 1 of copper and 1 of zinc.

Palladium white gold is much more expensive because palladium is expensive. It does not cause any allergic reaction. A typical palladium white gold alloy contains 18 parts gold, 4 parts palladium, 1 part silver and 1 part copper.

Electrum

One alloy which is rarely found now but was important in antiquity was 'electrum' - it was a mixture of one part of silver to four parts of gold. This alloy occurs naturally in many mines, so no refining was needed to produce it.

Electrum looks very much like gold. Legend has it that the Ancient Greek philosopher Archimedes was given the task of determining whether a crown offered to the king was made from electrum or pure gold. One way would be to estimate the density - electrum is less dense than gold, but the crown was too complex a shape to calculate its volume. While Archimedes was taking a bath, he noticed that as he got into tub, the water level rose. He realised that he could measure the volume of the crown by immersing it in water. He jumped out of the bath and ran naked down the street shouting 'Eureka, eureka!' (which means 'I have found it'). Whether this is true or not, Archimedes went on to discover the principle of flotation, which shows how the weight of a solid changes when it is immersed in a liquid.

Where Gold Comes From

Creation

Current thinking is that gold is created when stars explode. Stars are initially composed of the gaseous element hydrogen. This 'burns' in a nuclear reaction (fusion) to produce helium. When all the hydrogen is used up, the helium burns to produce carbon, which in turn burns to produce heavier elements. This process continues until the core of the star becomes iron, compressed to an incredible density and at an enormously high temperature. Since iron is unable to burn in the same way, the nuclear process stops and the star collapses inwards. This causes massive shockwaves which literally rip the star apart. As the shockwave travels through the upper layers of the star, elements are flung together in all sorts of haphazard arrangements and some combine to produce gold and other heavy elements. Then the star explodes, shooting off most of its mass into space. A small remnant star is left behind. This explosion is known as a supernova - it is the ultimate fate of all large stars. Supernovas are so bright that they can briefly outshine all the other stars in the galaxy put together.

Gradually over the aeons, all the debris from one such supernova explosion gathered together to form our solar system. The heavier elements clumped together to form the inner planets while the lighter elements formed the sun at the centre and the gas giant planets further out. Gold is distributed in microscopic quantities through the earth, both on land and in the sea. It is there in such tiny concentrations that it is not worth extracting.

Concentration

For gold to be present in sufficient quantities for mining, some sort of mechanism is needed to concentrate the gold. This is achieved by flows of hot water, which often occur deep underground, near volcanic vents and along tectonic plate boundaries. If the water is hot enough and has just the right chemical constituents, it will dissolve the gold out of the surrounding bedrock. As the water flows it carries the gold along. Eventually at some point along the water flow, the conditions change: perhaps the water cools below some critical temperature. The cooler water is now not able to hold the gold in solution, so it stops being dissolved and reverts to solid form: it 'precipitates'. Since the point at which this occurs is fixed, the gold concentration builds up at this point. This process might take 50 - 100,000 years. Eventually a vein of gold is formed. This may be pure or it may be mixed with other precious metals - silver is very common..

Get a clue.

watermock
11-12-2009, 03:43 AM
A single gram of gold can be stretched into a wire 3.2km long.
.

watermock
11-12-2009, 03:54 AM
white gold sold as platinum is a ripoff.

Of course, this is sold to the groom and bride as "better than gold".

watermock
11-12-2009, 04:01 AM
Maybe the human spirit is the antithesis of gold? No less destructible?

Current thinking is that gold is created when stars explode. Stars are initially composed of the gaseous element hydrogen. This 'burns' in a nuclear reaction (fusion) to produce helium. When all the hydrogen is used up, the helium burns to produce carbon, which in turn burns to produce heavier elements. This process continues until the core of the star becomes iron, compressed to an incredible density and at an enormously high temperature. Since iron is unable to burn in the same way, the nuclear process stops and the star collapses inwards. This causes massive shockwaves which literally rip the star apart. As the shockwave travels through the upper layers of the star, elements are flung together in all sorts of haphazard arrangements and some combine to produce gold and other heavy elements. Then the star explodes, shooting off most of its mass into space. A small remnant star is left behind. This explosion is known as a supernova - it is the ultimate fate of all large stars. Supernovas are so bright that they can briefly outshine all the other stars in the galaxy put together.

watermock
11-12-2009, 04:10 AM
Gold can be traded on the stock market as a commodity, and in fact more than 930 tonnes of gold are cleared through London every day. However, this is virtual gold which is bought and sold. No actual metal changes hands. The stock market price is artificially much higher than the actual value of the metal. This is not a good basis for any currency. This was brought home to the governments of the world in 1968 when gold was allowed to float freely rather than being fixed in price. At first the value rose, so that by 1980 it had reached a record high of US$850 per troy ounce. Then the price started to fall and by 1999 was down to less than a third of that. Now governments no longer use gold as the standard and are selling off their gold reserves.



This is both a lie and the truth.

Actually, they are both lies.

watermock
11-12-2009, 04:15 AM
Now governments no longer use gold as the standard and are selling off their gold reserves.


Exactly what governments?

Seems China and India buy as much as they can get....

watermock
11-12-2009, 04:20 AM
This the corrupt Comex I have discussed.

It's a frequent playground for certsin entities like GOLDMAN SACHS, which controls our govererment.

Tombstone RJ
11-12-2009, 08:28 AM
gold is valuable becauise they have to claw it out from your cold, dead hands.

Let me ask you this.

Diamonds are rocks. They are worth nothing.

My point is simple: Gold is a commodity that people value and they value it highly. Fine. However, if the economy tanked and people had to survive on lets say the "barter" system, then gold, aside from being pretty to look at is really not all that practicle. Are you gonna make tools out of gold? Are you going to plow a field with a gold tractor? Are you going to make bullets out of gold? Are you going to build a dam out of gold? Are you going to feed your family on a bar of gold? Are you going to pump water out of the ground with a gold windmill? Are you going to build a boat out of gold? Are you going to fish with a gold net?

It's value is based on perception more than practical applications. The fact that it is rare increases it's value substantially.

Yes, you can use gold for industrial purposes, but it's cost is so extreme, that it's impracticle for things like wiring and alloys. No one is gonna invest in gold wiring when copper wiring is fine if not better. Oh and btw, nobody can afford copper wiring either.

Gold, why valuable is a luxury item, not a practicle item

baja
11-12-2009, 09:09 AM
My point is simple: Gold is a commodity that people value and they value it highly. Fine. However, if the economy tanked and people had to survive on lets say the "barter" system, then gold, aside from being pretty to look at is really not all that practicle. Are you gonna make tools out of gold? Are you going to plow a field with a gold tractor? Are you going to make bullets out of gold? Are you going to build a dam out of gold? Are you going to feed your family on a bar of gold? Are you going to pump water out of the ground with a gold windmill? Are you going to build a boat out of gold? Are you going to fish with a gold net?

It's value is based on perception more than practical applications. The fact that it is rare increases it's value substantially.

Yes, you can use gold for industrial purposes, but it's cost is so extreme, that it's impracticle for things like wiring and alloys. No one is gonna invest in gold wiring when copper wiring is fine if not better. Oh and btw, nobody can afford copper wiring either.

Gold, why valuable is a luxury item, not a practicle item

Tell me what value does a dollar bill have except for the value people agree to, well it's the same with one ounce gold coins and in it event of complete financial collapse gold will become the new money.

Say you have a horse to trade and you want solar panels but the guy that has the solar panels doesn't want a horse what do you do? You both agree gold has a value that everyone agrees on so you 'buy' the panels with your gold coin (s).

Tombstone RJ
11-12-2009, 10:31 AM
Tell me what value does a dollar bill have except for the value people agree to, well it's the same with one ounce gold coins and in it event of complete financial collapse gold will become the new money.

Say you have a horse to trade and you want solar panels but the guy that has the solar panels doesn't want a horse what do you do? You both agree gold has a value that everyone agrees on so you 'buy' the panels with your gold coin (s).

If the guy needs the gold to make the solar panels then yes, I see your point. However, if that is not the case, then the gold is of no use to either of us. If he does not want my horse, then we barter for something else.

I probably would not have the time nor the energy to hall a bunch of gold around anyway.

The question is, do you need gold to live?

watermock
11-12-2009, 11:40 AM
Let Mock try to explain.

Assume there is no gold in Ft. Knox.(there probably isn't)

Then it becomes a function of the economy, debyt and most importantly, THE MONEY SUPPLY.

Gold is a finite commodity. So are others.

A fiat currency is just that. Fiat, you can print it till the ink runs red.

There is a finite amount if goods and if you havce an infinite amount of fiat money, it doesn't matter.You can't buy squat.

Garcia Bronco
11-12-2009, 11:44 AM
If we have complete financial collapse then gold will be just as worthless. And if I want it bad enough from you...I'd just take it anyway. Who's going to stop me besides you?

watermock
11-12-2009, 12:02 PM
That's why they cant make rifle shells fast enough.

baja
11-12-2009, 01:19 PM
If the guy needs the gold to make the solar panels then yes, I see your point. However, if that is not the case, then the gold is of no use to either of us. If he does not want my horse, then we barter for something else.

I probably would not have the time nor the energy to hall a bunch of gold around anyway.

The question is, do you need gold to live?

What you are missing is there is and always has been an agreed on value of gold which means you 'pay' the guy in gold the value of the solar panels and the seller has a convenient instrument of value to exchange for what ever he might need, say seeds for example. The seller of the seeds uses the gold he received to buy, lets say a horse and uses the gold for the purchase. All gold serves is a transfer conveniently goods and services for one person to another exactly as currency is used to day but because there is only so much gold it can't be devalued by creating more gold out of thin air like the fed is now doing with the creation of trillions of dollars.

watermock
11-12-2009, 01:43 PM
there is only so much gold it can't be devalued by creating more gold out of thin air like the fed is now doing with the creation of trillions of dollars.

You can only repeat this so many times Baja.

A fiat currency is only as strong as it's economy and debt, and of course, M1, the supply.

Look, there are petrodollars. Ever hear of them? They out number Gold 100/1 or whatever.

Going to run around with a barrel of crude on a mule? Talk about worthless.

There is no real problen with a fiat currency, as long as it has a backing of economy and the promise that the supply won't grow exponentially.

What you WANT is for the money to exchange fast, this is called the multiplier effect.

I there is no faith in the value, people will try to pawn it off as fAST AS POSSIBLE.

This is simple economy 101.

watermock
11-12-2009, 01:47 PM
Actually, the world has ben on a oil standard for 50 years.

A brick of Gold buys alot of crude, and you just might be able to carry it.

Tombstone RJ
11-12-2009, 05:20 PM
What you are missing is there is and always has been an agreed on value of gold which means you 'pay' the guy in gold the value of the solar panels and the seller has a convenient instrument of value to exchange for what ever he might need, say seeds for example. The seller of the seeds uses the gold he received to buy, lets say a horse and uses the gold for the purchase. All gold serves is a transfer conveniently goods and services for one person to another exactly as currency is used to day but because there is only so much gold it can't be devalued by creating more gold out of thin air like the fed is now doing with the creation of trillions of dollars.

I understand what your saying. Your saying that gold is the currency through which the guy and I would do business.

What I'm saying is that if we were living in an apocolyptic time where all you had was your ability (some kind of skill people value like a gun maker) and everyone lived through a bartering system (kinda like Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome) then gold would be relatively worthless because it's a luxury item, not a survival item. You would need food, water, shelter, clothing and some kind of a skill that you could use to barter with others for things you need.

If all you had was a bunch of gold, and no skill to make things that people need and no service that people would need (Mock would need a male prostitute) then you will not survive.

Wow, this thread has gotten wierd.

baja
11-12-2009, 05:44 PM
It has gotten weird.

All I'm saying is in the times we are speaking of if you have gold you can buy anything you want because the gold would be readily excepted because the seller would know he could in turn buy what he needs because everyone would accept gold at a certain fixed value. Fixed because the fluctuating value you see today is because the item that is changing is the dollar value not the gold value. This seems so simple I am surprised it needs to be mentioned more than once.

baja
11-12-2009, 05:47 PM
You can only repeat this so many times Baja.

A fiat currency is only as strong as it's economy and debt, and of course, M1, the supply.

Look, there are petrodollars. Ever hear of them? They out number Gold 100/1 or whatever.

Going to run around with a barrel of crude on a mule? Talk about worthless.

There is no real problen with a fiat currency, as long as it has a backing of economy and the promise that the supply won't grow exponentially.

What you WANT is for the money to exchange fast, this is called the multiplier effect.

I there is no faith in the value, people will try to pawn it off as fAST AS POSSIBLE.

This is simple economy 101.

I understand all this Mock, it is exactly the reason the dollar (being tied to oil) has been kept afloat at current values.

Meck77
02-14-2011, 01:09 PM
It's over bought and over priced and the bubble will burst.

Carry on. :)

Should be interesting when congress votes to raise the debt ceiling in April. The stock market is artificially being pushed up by the institutional buyers. Gold has had a nice little pull back. Time to get in if you can.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/12/us/politics/12debt.html?src=twrhp

AK are you still shorting gold or silver?

14 trilliion, 15, trillion, 20 trillion in debt? It's not going to work folks.....

mhgaffney
02-14-2011, 03:29 PM
You guys are full of BS.

But that's OK. I actually buy silver -- not gold. But I'm very happy you think precious metal is a bad investment.

Sorry to seem selfish -- but this wacko logic on your part is actually going to help put money in my pocket.

As the dollar goes to hell -- metal will increase in value. This is a no brainer. Last summer I bought junk silver at $19/ounce./ It is now over $30/ounce and is projected to go much much higher.

One day you might need silver to buy gasoline. If the dollar goes to hell you won't be able to carry enough in a wheelbarrow to fill your gas tank.

It happened in Weimer Germany in 1922. It happened in Mexico - and Venezuela. It happened in Russia.

You think it can't happen here?

Go ahead,. Be stupid. As I say -- that will put $ in my pocket.

American hubris is over the top. Each week we reach a new low. If I had a dime for every stupid ignorant post on the OM I'd be a millionaire.

MHG

W*GS
02-14-2011, 03:46 PM
If I had a dime for every stupid ignorant post on the OM I'd be a millionaire.

Moving that dime from one pocket to the other doesn't make you richer, moron.

chadta
02-14-2011, 04:12 PM
If I had a dime for every stupid ignorant post on the OM I'd be a millionaire.

MHG

Sounds like a conflict of interest to me, i mean since you've cornered the market on stupid posts, i think its wrong that you should now benefit from them.

That One Guy
02-14-2011, 05:16 PM
Sounds like a conflict of interest to me, i mean since you've cornered the market on stupid posts, i think its wrong that you should now benefit from them.

LOL

Well said.

loborugger
02-14-2011, 05:28 PM
Should be interesting when congress votes to raise the debt ceiling in April. The stock market is artificially being pushed up by the institutional buyers. Gold has had a nice little pull back. Time to get in if you can.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/12/us/politics/12debt.html?src=twrhp

AK are you still shorting gold or silver?

14 trilliion, 15, trillion, 20 trillion in debt? It's not going to work folks.....

I have been reading articles that in attempts to manipulate the market and keep silver artificially low, JP Morgan has over the years shorted more silver than exists on the planet. Historically, silver has been at a value of 1/16th that of gold. However, now, its about 1/48th the value of gold. Silver has some real upside right now, in spite of the fact that many want the value of precious metals to go away.

mhgaffney
02-14-2011, 07:12 PM
We'll see who's laughing in 12-16 months when the dollar bites the dust.

W*GS
02-14-2011, 07:16 PM
We'll see who's laughing in 12-16 months when the dollar bites the dust.

Your predictions are as credible as Miss Cleo's.

Wasn't Teheran supposed to have been left a smoking crater, thanks to the Jews, months and months ago?

mhgaffney
02-14-2011, 07:30 PM
Surprise!

The resident troglodyte appears on cue -- out of the woodwork.

Integrate this: Last year Tehran sustained a direct broadside -- an act of by the US /Israel -- as predicted. I refer to the recent cyber attack -- to which many on the OM responded with glee.

The CIA campaign of terror inside Iran continues. We are at war.

At this point -- it can escalate at any moment.

IMO the only factor that has prevented all out warfare -- to date -- is the fact that the Iranians now have a conventional deterrent -- which has caused Israel to have second thoughts.

Iran's IRBMs (intermediate range ballistic missiles) now have GPS guidance systems -- which allows an accuracy of up to 1-3 meters. This means Iran can target Israel's nuclear reactor at Dimona and Israel's nuclear arms and bio weapons stockpiles.

One direct hit -- would contaminate much of Israel -- making it uninhabitable for hundreds -- maybe thousands of years.

We are not talking about Skuds anymore. The stakes have risen in recent years.

The Isarelis are warlike fanatics -- but thankfully they are not stupid.

W*GS
02-14-2011, 07:54 PM
A video of Tel Aviv underneath an Iranian mushroom cloud would make gaff-o orgasm.

SoCalBronco
02-14-2011, 08:15 PM
Sorry to seem selfish -- but this wacko logic on your part is actually going to help put money in my pocket.



Nice Freudian slip there, Gaff. You were talking about gold, but in reality, you were talking to the purchasers of your written material.

Odysseus
02-14-2011, 10:25 PM
We're not even halfway to gold's peak in real terms if you look at the cycle. Think about selling when it's over $2,000.

This thread was over in October.

mhgaffney
02-15-2011, 02:34 AM
Some are saying silver will go above $50/ounce.

Today I heard an old timer say he think it will peak at more than $200/ounce.

If that happens the dollar will be worth less than T paper.

Arkie
02-15-2011, 10:54 AM
This thread was over in October.

I haven't changed my mind. I think gold will trade above $2000 before it trades below $850. Gold is trading below it's 50 day average ($1372) plus it's relative strength is up 20% this month. It's screaming buy.

edit: It opened below the 50 day average. It's since gone over.

baja
02-15-2011, 11:45 AM
I haven't changed my mind. I think gold will trade above $2000 before it trades below $850. Gold is trading below it's 50 day average ($1372) plus it's relative strength is up 20% this month. It's screaming buy.

edit: It opened below the 50 day average. It's since gone over.

If you don't have remote land with free flowing water and get set up off the grid the gold will do you no good.

Meck77
02-15-2011, 04:31 PM
Sorry no link. Newsletter from my gold source.

Gold rose sharply, up $11 today, on the release of the higher than expected UK inflation data. It showed that UK inflation quickened to 26 month highs at 4.0%. Currency debasement and higher food and energy prices are leading to an inflation surge in both developed and emerging markets.

The world’s largest bond fund sharply cut its exposure to US government-related debt in January, before US bond yields rose this month to their highest level in almost a year. Pimco’s Total Return Fund, run by Bill Gross, a founder of Pimco, reported that its holdings of US government-related securities fell from 22 per cent in December to 12 per cent in January.

Inflation. What Inflation?

• Corn futures nearly doubled last year.

• Retail banana prices rose 21 percent.

• A pound of coffee cost $4.15 last year, up 13 percent from the year before.

• Duncan Donuts hiked coffee prices by 9 percent last year, and expects to hike another 10 percent this year.

• Orange juice futures doubled in 2010. An industry trade magazine predicts OJ will soon be a luxury item.

• Retail egg prices rose over 1 percent in 2010. The government projects a 2.5-3.5 percent rise in 2011.

• Retail bacon prices rose 17% in 2010. Retail apple prices rose 7.4% last year.

• The average gallon of milk rose 6.9% to $3.32 last year. The USDA projects a 5% rise this year.

• Wheat futures rose 35% last year.

• Retail cheddar prices rose 8.4% last year to nearly $5 a pound.

• Sara Lee has hiked prices for lunch meats.

• A carton of vine-ripe tomatoes jumped from $7 to $24 last year. A 60-year cold spell in Mexico is expected to double fresh produce costs in coming weeks.

• Sirloin prices rose 5% last year. Tyson says more hikes are coming.

• Although retail potato prices declined 6% last year in the U.S., prices doubled around the world.

• The Russian heat wave drove wheat prices up 47% last year. Miller-Coors plans to raise prices.


The White House projected Monday that the federal deficit would spike to $1.65 trillion in the current fiscal year, the largest dollar amount ever, adding pressure on Democrats and Republicans to tackle growing levels of debt.

The IMF is trying to move the world away from the U.S. dollar and towards a global currency once again. In a new report entitled "Enhancing International Monetary Stability—A Role for the SDR", the IMF details the "problems" with having the U.S. dollar as the reserve currency of the globe and the IMF discusses the potential for a larger role for SDRs (Special Drawing Rights). But the IMF certainly does not view SDRs as the "final solution" to global currency problems. Rather, the IMF considers SDRs to be a transitional phase between what we have now and a new world currency.

Ron Paul blasted the Federal Reserve in an appearance on CNBC star Larry Kudlow's show. Some economic observations from Paul: 'We have so much unemployment, it is so undercounted. The free market economists report that there is probably 22% of unemployment. They pumped in $4 trillion, they should have added a lot of jobs, but how much did it cost us, and that of course is the price inflation that will come. We are moving into another 30 year period where we are going to see a reversal of interest rates, and we are going to see a crashing of the bonds like we saw 30 years ago and it's going to last a long, long time. The Fed deserves the blame for the inflation, and for the unemployment.'

Old Yeller’s less precious cousin is continuing its recent tear, with Silver surging more than 3% on the Comex to close at $30.27/oz. Silver has gained about 13% since Jan. 25 and its close above $30 is considered technically promising. Silver has been up four straight sessions and seven of the last eight.

Arkie
02-15-2011, 04:34 PM
If you don't have remote land with free flowing water and get set up off the grid the gold will do you no good.

When in the last 5000 years has gold been no good?

W*GS
02-15-2011, 05:04 PM
If you don't have remote land with free flowing water and get set up off the grid the gold will do you no good.

You forgot lots and lots of guns and even more lots and lots of ammo.

baja
02-15-2011, 05:37 PM
You forgot lots and lots of guns and even more lots and lots of ammo.

I prefer space between me and people, lots and lots of space thank you. You can't kill everyone.

baja
02-15-2011, 05:38 PM
When in the last 5000 years has gold been no good?

When in the last 5000 years have there been 7 billion people?

W*GS
02-15-2011, 06:25 PM
I prefer space between me and people, lots and lots of space thank you. You can't kill everyone.

You may need to.

baja
02-15-2011, 06:30 PM
You may need to.

I would rather move on to the next thing

Arkie
02-17-2011, 04:04 PM
When in the last 5000 years have there been 7 billion people?

That just makes gold more valuable according to the law of supply and demand. It will be something very valuable that most people won't have. They may even kill me over it. I guess that's a way gold won't do me good.

Odysseus
02-17-2011, 06:25 PM
When in the last 5000 years has gold been no good?

I am having a lot of fun with gold. People are not paying attention to the currency markets. Where do you put your money when it fluctuates?

EDIT: Antique gold coins are always a buy. They retain their value as gold and the fact they are rare.

baja
02-17-2011, 07:00 PM
That just makes gold more valuable according to the law of supply and demand. It will be something very valuable that most people won't have. They may even kill me over it. I guess that's a way gold won't do me good.

The guy gnawing on your leg for protein will be your most immediate concern. ;D

Even if 20 % of the people plan ahead and store up food and supplies can you imagine what five and one half billion starving and sick people would look like out the kitchen window.

baja
02-17-2011, 07:01 PM
You may need to.

You are starting to see the light aren't you.

Odysseus
02-17-2011, 09:27 PM
The guy gnawing on your leg for protein will be your most immediate concern. ;D

Even if 20 % of the people plan ahead and store up food and supplies can you imagine what five and one half billion starving and sick people would look like out the kitchen window.

Chief's fans?

mhgaffney
02-18-2011, 12:03 AM
Let's hope the starving people show up at the door of the richest 1% -- and eat them for lunch.

It would do the 1% justice -- for what they have done to the poor -- and the earth.

Odysseus
02-18-2011, 01:40 AM
Let's hope the starving people show up at the door of the richest 1% -- and eat them for lunch.

It would do the 1% justice -- for what they have done to the poor -- and the earth.

I am moving down by Baja. I don't want to be a snack on the road to finding the rich people.

chadta
02-18-2011, 04:46 AM
I am moving down by Baja. I don't want to be a snack on the road to finding the rich people.

as long as the lady next door has 19 cats im safe for awhile, they should at least provide enough food to distract people while i make a run for it.

baja
02-18-2011, 04:56 AM
Let's hope the starving people show up at the door of the richest 1% -- and eat them for lunch.

It would do the 1% justice -- for what they have done to the poor -- and the earth.

You miss that we are all one being. Separation is an illusion. "The first shall be last and the last shall be first"


This is why you get so angry.

What do you think the unused 90% of your brain is for, after all there are no wasted parts in the human body.

baja
02-18-2011, 04:57 AM
as long as the lady next door has 19 cats im safe for awhile, they should at least provide enough food to distract people while i make a run for it.

You will be much easier to catch than a cat

Odysseus
02-18-2011, 05:03 AM
as long as the lady next door has 19 cats im safe for awhile, they should at least provide enough food to distract people while i make a run for it.

Cats are too stringy even with marinade. The way things are going you might want to look into a Tom and Jerry stew. (cat and rat)

Odysseus
02-18-2011, 05:19 AM
You miss that we are all one being. Separation is an illusion. "The first shall be last and the last shall be first"


This is why you get so angry.

What do you think the unused 90% of your brain is for, after all there are no wasted parts in the human body.

It's too bad more people do not get the larger connections.

chadta
02-18-2011, 05:21 AM
You will be much easier to catch than a cat

no way, im smart like OX, strong like einstein, angry mob never catch me

Meck77
02-23-2011, 09:51 AM
Political unrest sending Gold higher.

http://www.monex.com/gvi?pageid=insightarticle&articleid=1017&cat=1

Is the political unrest spurring commodity price inflation?
*Forbes, by Robert Lezner, February 21, 2011:
"The violent stand-off in Libya and elsewhere in the Middle East has triggered renewed speculation in precious metals and crude oil prices.

The price of gold jumped $17.60 an ounce today to $1406 an ounce– much nearer its previous peak over $1420. Silver, as well, jumped over $2.00 an ounce to $33.91, precisely the scenario to make silver traders ecstatic. Meanwhile, crude oil, the commodity most directly affected by the intense political unrest, ran up over 5% in price in London to $107.60 a barrel. The last time oil sold at this level was in 2008, just on the eve of an approaching bubble at the $148 a barrel level.

Arkie
02-23-2011, 10:45 AM
The guy gnawing on your leg for protein will be your most immediate concern. ;D

Even if 20 % of the people plan ahead and store up food and supplies can you imagine what five and one half billion starving and sick people would look like out the kitchen window.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3myC4xuC1-g/SpmRSPmsT2I/AAAAAAAAAQk/4UfG6q_0A14/s400/monty_python_angry_mob.jpg

Odysseus
02-23-2011, 12:31 PM
I'm not. The only thing about gold that I'm more sure of than breaking the $2000 barrier, is that it's very volatile. Guessing the timing is like guessing who's going to win MNF tonight. (Go Broncos!) If you sell over $2000, then anything under, even $1999 is a good buy. $850 is a great buy, but I'm not going to risk what I have to get it. I'm just not as confident that we'll see $850 before $2000. I think it will happen, but not enough to risk it, or pay capital gains taxes, or pay the premium to buy it back. It's a lot easier to bet on the underdogs tonight and take the points. lol

Even if you could time travel back in time and offer yourself advice. Something always ends up happening to foul up the future. That is why it's called speculation. I don't think there are any real magic numbers. The reason I think gold is a buy is because of GLOBAL uncertainty. America's currency has been the currency of choice for geneations. If a country wants to migrate away from dollars or stay with dollars what else is there?

Meck77
02-23-2011, 12:40 PM
Sure it's speculative. What isn't. Does it make sense to bank on a couple hundred year old currency that is being printed faster than monopoly money or a commodity that has been sought after since ancient times?

baja
02-23-2011, 02:11 PM
My my my how our views change.

baja
02-23-2011, 02:12 PM
Who wants to know what the next great investment will be?

Arkie
02-23-2011, 02:24 PM
Who wants to know what the next great investment will be?

Rare Earths? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_earth_element)

baja
02-23-2011, 02:28 PM
http://www.preparedplanet.com/Storage%20and%20Garden%20Seeds.html#EVLSeed

http://www.preparedplanet.com/PlanetImages/Sprouts%20&%20Seeds/Seed_label.gif

baja
02-23-2011, 02:30 PM
http://www.hortonarchery.com/resources/1/images/Vision%20RIGHT.png

chadta
02-23-2011, 02:59 PM
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-23/oil-advances-to-28-month-high-as-libya-unrest-fans-mideast-supply-concern.html

Prices rose from the settlement after the American Petroleum Institute reported at 4:30 p.m. that U.S. crude-oil stockpiles gained 163,000 barrels to 345.8 million. April oil advanced $3.32, or 3.5 percent, to $98.74 a barrel in electronic trading at 4:32 p.m.

Gas is up almost 30 cents a gallon, oil is up 15 bucks a barrel, yet the supplies here are still gaining.

Meck77
03-01-2011, 04:35 PM
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/1465/goldi.gif (http://img826.imageshack.us/i/goldi.gif/)

mhgaffney
03-01-2011, 05:36 PM
Silver just hit $34.70/ounce.

It was $19/ounce last July.

Arkie
03-09-2011, 09:01 PM
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/1465/goldi.gif (http://img826.imageshack.us/i/goldi.gif/)

Gold is up 40% since the OP stated it's overpriced and the bubble will burst. The next 40% increase will be quicker and steeper and put it over $2000. Even if gold is in a bubble, you can see from your chart that it still has a long way to go. Bubbles make parabolic moves which hasn't happened yet. This has been a slow building base which means it will be huge.

http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/bubble-psychology.jpg

http://fisherpreciousmetals.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Gold-Bubble-Nasdaq.jpg

mhgaffney
03-09-2011, 10:19 PM
It's over bought and over priced and the bubble will burst.

Carry on. :)

No -- the bubble happened in the dot coms -- and again in real estate.

We are not seeing a bubble in gold and silver. The spiking price/ounce of each is a measure of the weak dollar.

As the dollar deteriorates -- the value of precious metals will soar.

Odysseus
03-11-2011, 04:35 AM
I am more worried about the dollar being valued too highly than gold. There is nothing propping up the dollar but people we owe money to.

baja
03-11-2011, 05:50 AM
I am more worried about the dollar being valued too highly than gold. There is nothing propping up the dollar but people we owe money to.

The main thing propping up the dollar is the fact it's the oil currency. If that were to change watch out.

Williams
03-11-2011, 08:25 PM
The main thing propping up the dollar is the fact it's the oil currency. If that were to change watch out.

Do you think it might? Do you think gold and silver are still wise investments?

I was thinking about getting into gold around '06 and ended up putting it off and eventually thought the ship sailed and I missed my shot. What a mistake. My interest has picked up again in the past few weeks and I might finally jump in (gold and/or silver). I've read many good things about silver... but it's volatility might scare me off.

baja
03-11-2011, 09:21 PM
Do you think it might? Do you think gold and silver are still wise investments?

I was thinking about getting into gold around '06 and ended up putting it off and eventually thought the ship sailed and I missed my shot. What a mistake. My interest has picked up again in the past few weeks and I might finally jump in (gold and/or silver). I've read many good things about silver... but it's volatility might scare me off.


I think the USA will go to war before it allows any shift from the policy Kissinger orchestrated requiring oil be bought for in dollars only because it would crash the dollar and crash the economy.

As for gold & silver I never thought of them as an investment but rather a place to safety store assets durning uncertain times.

I would not hold dollars today and I would be leery of the market unless you really know what you are doing. I believe it is manipulated to rise and fall with those in the know buying and selling on Que..

JJJ
03-12-2011, 12:19 AM
If hedging is your primary goal you may want to hedge your dollar risk by buying a basket of currencies. This strategy wouldn't have the bubble risk of gold which in my opinion does exist to some degree.

I don't see gold dropping rapidly but it doesn't have too much left to climb.

Odysseus
03-12-2011, 03:40 AM
I think the USA will go to war before it allows any shift from the policy Kissinger orchestrated requiring oil be bought for in dollars only because it would crash the dollar and crash the economy.

As for gold & silver I never thought of them as an investment but rather a place to safety store assets durning uncertain times.

I would not hold dollars today and I would be leery of the market unless you really know what you are doing. I believe it is manipulated to rise and fall with those in the know buying and selling on Que..

Oddly enough I think we already did go to war over just that. WMD were in Iraq (according to locals) but were moved to Syria. Saddam was in Syria and then came back to hometown where ultimately he was caught. How we wandered in and out of our checkpoints without detection is funny.

Saudi is Sunni and 80% of Islamic world is Sunni. The Iranian revolution (Shi'a) sparked a change in the region that was not expected. We are positioned in Iraq (W of Iran) and Afghanistan (E of Iran). In Iraq the issue is Iranians but in Afghanistan the issue is Pakistan.

Borders are not as rigid as you would imagine and a lot of the old frustrations in this region are not going away in our lifetimes. Disturbances in Iran and Saudi Arabia? This region is not settling down for 20 years.

baja
03-12-2011, 06:48 AM
If hedging is your primary goal you may want to hedge your dollar risk by buying a basket of currencies. This strategy wouldn't have the bubble risk of gold which in my opinion does exist to some degree.

I don't see gold dropping rapidly but it doesn't have too much left to climb.

Gold will trend up and down but steadily climbing and you will see 2000 an oz gold fairly soon.

Odysseus
03-12-2011, 07:48 PM
The global debt clock is completely red. Think about that. There are zero countries in the green right now. The whole planet is awash in debt. What do you think the eventual solution will be? I think changes in currency markets are inevitable. You cannot have this kind of global misery without someone breaking ranks.

baja
03-12-2011, 07:51 PM
Wealthy living career development and advancement includes the law of reciprocity which will bless you as you become a blessing to others. As you freely give kindness, your talents, prayers, well wishes, etc., you’ll receive more blessings back in return.

It will also make you more sensitive to spiritual things. In the process you’ll draw nearer to God with a greater clarity to receive His guidance. However, your ability to do this increases during alone times with God.

This doesn’t mean you can’t receive spiritual guidance for your career development during busy times or through others. But the peaceful times cement the connection between you and God.

http://www.the-way-to-wealthy-living.com/reciprocity.html

JJJ
03-13-2011, 12:08 AM
The global debt clock is completely red. Think about that. There are zero countries in the green right now. The whole planet is awash in debt. What do you think the eventual solution will be? I think changes in currency markets are inevitable. You cannot have this kind of global misery without someone breaking ranks.

But this is really a silly way to look at it. Just like all businesses should have some debt all countries having reasonable levels of debt is just good business.

Lets say you only have only two countries in the world and each holds 10% of each other's debt. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? 100% of economists will tell you it is a good thing. But the entire world in this case is in debt by your definition.

When debt levels get above 50% of the countries GDP then it is time to start getting a bit worried. There are about 50 countries in the world above that level including us. These countries must put in austerity measures to get the debt levels back to healthy levels.

Odysseus
03-13-2011, 04:18 AM
But this is really a silly way to look at it. Just like all businesses should have some debt all countries having reasonable levels of debt is just good business.

Lets say you only have only two countries in the world and each holds 10% of each other's debt. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? 100% of economists will tell you it is a good thing. But the entire world in this case is in debt by your definition.

When debt levels get above 50% of the countries GDP then it is time to start getting a bit worried. There are about 50 countries in the world above that level including us. These countries must put in austerity measures to get the debt levels back to healthy levels.

If you are dealing with perceived or fabricated levels of debt that is a true statement but we are in unprecidented territory. Countries are not lying about debt they don't have. They are lying about capital that does not exist.

It's not an unfixable situation if governments were not in denial about where things really are. Countries rarely wake up to circumstances until the situation forces this upon them.

I think there are always opportunities for investors as long as SOMEBODY has money to invest. I am not soliciting business for this guy or supporting his business in any way. It just helps explain my point a little better. Apologies if it seems tangential.

Word of the day: Screwflation

Finally – we’ve got a word for what most
of us in the so-called middle-class have
been feeling the last few years – Screwflation.

As far as I can tell, Doug Kass at TheStreet.com
invented it back in Oct of 2010.

He defined this way:

“Screwflation, like its first cousin stagflation,
is an expression of a period of slow and uneven
economic growth, but, its potential inflationary
consequences have an outsized impact on a specific
group.

The emergence of screwflation hurts just the group
that you want to protect -- namely, the middle class,
a segment of the population that has already spent
a decade experiencing an erosion in disposable income
and a painful period (at least over the past several
years) of lower stock and home prices.

Importantly, quantitative easing is designed to lower
real interest rates and, at the same time, raise
inflation. A lower interest rate policy hurts the
savings classes -- both the middle class and the
elderly. And inflation in the costs of food, energy
and everything else consumed (without a concomitant
increase in salaries) will screw the average American
who doesn't benefit from QE 2.”

If you’re a middle-class saver/investor, I’m sure you
can identify with this. And, if you want company,
there are lots of pundits out there who are willing
to tell you just how screwed you are. That’s not what
I’m going to do today. I want to talk to you about
how to get unscrewed.

Once you figure out how the system works and that
you’re not part of the elite that it’s designed to
serve, you’ll either sink into depression and say WTH
or get smart and figure out a way to work it.

One of the best ways to beat the system is to figure
out how to make a lot more income – so much that you
enjoy paying lots more taxes on it!

You know your employer isn’t going to see it quite
that way so take a look at your skills and find a place
to use them in your own side business. Many investors
like rental real estate and with the current environment
of low interest fixed rate mortgages and reduced prices;
if you find a good property you can expect a dependable
monthly cash flow.

Some folks are finding ways to sell goods and services
online and you might want to look into internet based
businesses you can run part-time. But, my favorite is
(no surprise) learning to trade the financial markets.

It’s not for everyone but don’t think that because you
don’t have an MBA or accounting experience that you
can’t learn to read the charts and trade profitably.

The markets don’t discriminate but they do favor people
who learn and apply a couple basic skills. Primarily,
those who can rein their emotions in and trade a proven
system.

So, it’s up to you.

While most of the ordinary people who make up the
backbone of this country get Screwflation:

• Investment portfolios with zero gains (at best) after
the bubbles and busts of the last decade

• Values of their hard assets (like their homes) trashed

• High household debt levels

• Plus the well paid jobs being eliminated while skilled
workers settle for part-time work and low-paying service
jobs with few benefits.

Screwflation is killing the retirement savings of millions
of Americans as it slashes their spending power and
standards of living. As long as Washington isn't producing
solutions, it's up to enterprising Americans to look for
alternatives.

Politicians say America may remain in a high-unemployment,
low growth mode for another four or five years. We haven't
seen that kind of outlook since the Great Depression.

But, unlike the Depression, there are impressive areas of
growth and wealth in our economic system.

Garcia Bronco
03-13-2011, 07:09 AM
Its a bubble and its going to burst. Plus at its current price, lesser incomes can't get in and thats why its a bad investment. And if all that you think is true about the world then gold qill be as useless as tits on a boar. You can't eat gold and you can't drink it.

Odysseus
03-13-2011, 07:41 AM
Its a bubble and its going to burst. Plus at its current price, lesser incomes can't get in and thats why its a bad investment. And if all that you think is true about the world then gold qill be as useless as boobies on a boar. You can't eat gold and you can't drink it.

Investment analysts rarely consider poor people when it comes to investments. If you look at the division between rich and poor you will see a widening gap not one that is shrinking. Because their are gates is why a gated community can charge more. Because there is HOA if you can't pay you can't play.

The problem with gold is it is illegal to pay for things with gold. If that changes, as a competing currency, you are in error.

Poor folks are investing in lead. You know...weapons, bullets, and survival gear... because lead can sometimes trump gold. I believe in diversification. ;D

bowtown
03-13-2011, 10:48 AM
Its a bubble and its going to burst. Plus at its current price, lesser incomes can't get in and thats why its a bad investment. And if all that you think is true about the world then gold qill be as useless as boobies on a boar. You can't eat gold and you can't drink it.

That's why the majority of my savings is tied up in Jack Daniels and Doritos.

JJJ
03-13-2011, 03:07 PM
That's why the majority of my savings is tied up in Jack Daniels and Doritos.

What flavor of Doritos go with Jack Daniels?

Tombstone RJ
03-13-2011, 03:09 PM
What flavor of Doritos go with Jack Daniels?

does it matter?

bowtown
03-13-2011, 03:10 PM
What flavor of Doritos go with Jack Daniels?

What flavor of Doritos doesn't go with Jack Daniels?

Arkie
03-24-2011, 11:09 AM
It's silly to argue that you can't eat gold. Gold is not food. It's money. You can't eat paper or digital money either.

Lessor incomes can get into gold as easy as most other investments.

GAMCO Gold (GOLDX) @ $33.68
SPDR Gold Trust (GLD)@ $139.88
GoldGrams @ $46.47
Gold Maple 1/20 oz @ $100.37
https://online.kitco.com/images/pdtimgs_ID/3103.gif
Buy on the dips and keep on stacking as gold's value goes up long term.

mhgaffney
03-24-2011, 08:30 PM
You miss that we are all one being. Separation is an illusion. "The first shall be last and the last shall be first"

This is why you get so angry.

What do you think the unused 90% of your brain is for, after all there are no wasted parts in the human body.

If the poorest of the poor eat the 1% for lunch -- we'll still be one.

It is what it is.

baja
03-24-2011, 10:01 PM
If the poorest of the poor eat the 1% for lunch -- we'll still be one.

It is what it is.

This is true

...as will the eaten ones

mhgaffney
03-25-2011, 03:31 AM
The one ness of humanity -- is lost on the super rich and the super powerful.

They are preparing to survive whatever is coming -- and screw the rest of us.

I just heard that the DOD built a city below the new international airport in Denver. They went deep. From what I heard -- it's a vast facility.

If anyone has any info about it -- please post.

Why Denver? Could it be because of the mile high altitude (hence no tsunami problems) and because Colorado is geologically stable?

BroncsRule
03-25-2011, 09:11 AM
The one ness of humanity -- is lost on the super rich and the super powerful.

They are preparing to survive whatever is coming -- and screw the rest of us.

I just heard that the DOD built a city below the new international airport in Denver. They went deep. From what I heard -- it's a vast facility.

If anyone has any info about it -- please post.

Why Denver? Could it be because of the mile high altitude (hence no tsunami problems) and because Colorado is geologically stable?

Dang, Gaff, you're slippin'.. for a conspiracy nut to be ignorant of the vast Reptoid Alien Base built under DIA..

Shameful!

http://diaconspiracyfiles.wordpress.com/category/underground-bases/

http://www.westword.com/2007-08-30/news/dia-conspiracies-take-off/full

Arkie
04-05-2011, 08:51 AM
Why Denver? Could it be because of the mile high altitude (hence no tsunami problems) and because Colorado is geologically stable?

What about the Yellowstone volcano?

baja
04-05-2011, 11:32 AM
how high can a tsunami climb?

Arkie
04-05-2011, 02:15 PM
how high can gold climb?
new record?

http://www.kitco.com/images/live/gold.gif

baja
04-05-2011, 03:38 PM
Wonder where "The Dave" is.

It will break the phycological barrier of $2000 by mid summer or at the next big event that threatens the dollar or oil prices.

baja
04-05-2011, 03:40 PM
My question to thread participants would be why are both the stock market and gold soaring at the same time?

Arkie
04-05-2011, 06:25 PM
My question to thread participants would be why are both the stock market and gold soaring at the same time?

Stocks are going down in real terms even if they are going up.

baja
04-05-2011, 06:44 PM
Stocks are going down in real terms even if they are going up.

The dollar is dropping significantly against the peso for the first time in my memory. A few months ago it was as high as 15 to 1. Today is approaching approaching 10 to 1 That means the dollar has lost 1/3 it's value against the peso which is shocking.

loborugger
04-07-2011, 07:41 AM
The dollar is dropping significantly against the peso for the first time in my memory. A few months ago it was as high as 15 to 1. Today is approaching approaching 10 to 1 That means the dollar has lost 1/3 it's value against the peso which is shocking.

The dollar is dropping compared to the Peso? Holy Crap!

I would agree with the assessment above - as the dollar plunges in value, the stock market can go up at the same time gold/silver go up.

alkemical
04-07-2011, 07:51 AM
Wait, i thought the stock market going up was good for us*.

DenverBrit
04-07-2011, 08:02 AM
Dang, Gaff, you're slippin'.. for a conspiracy nut to be ignorant of the vast Reptoid Alien Base built under DIA..

Shameful!

http://diaconspiracyfiles.wordpress.com/category/underground-bases/

http://www.westword.com/2007-08-30/news/dia-conspiracies-take-off/full

Gaff is typical of the agenda driven monkeys.

Google is either a complete mystery to him, or he's too lazy to research anything that might prove him wrong. Ha!

cutthemdown
04-07-2011, 12:18 PM
Well i never really had enough money for gold so i bought silver. I bought 100 ounces when it was 14 dollars an ounce. Pretty stoked about that. Wish I had bought more dammit!

baja
04-07-2011, 12:34 PM
Well i never really had enough money for gold so i bought silver. I bought 100 ounces when it was 14 dollars an ounce. Pretty stoked about that. Wish I had bought more dammit!

I remember how you ridiculed me back then. Do you?

cutthemdown
04-07-2011, 12:44 PM
I remember how you ridiculed me back then. Do you?

In fairness I did say it could hit 1000, maybe a bit more, but you said 2000 remember?

cutthemdown
04-07-2011, 12:45 PM
Also anyone who bought that gold there could still be a bubble, silver better because it is used more in industry and has more real value then gold IMO.

baja
04-07-2011, 01:18 PM
In fairness I did say it could hit 1000, maybe a bit more, but you said 2000 remember?

It wasn't the number you took issue with it was with my reasons for the rise in value, the concept and my credibility. You judged me without knowing much about. Just wrote me off as a kook.

As for the 2,000 mark it will hit that and far beyond before all is said and done.

Did you ever buy that cabin/land out East of you?

loborugger
04-15-2011, 08:48 AM
This morning gold is up to 1486 while silver is at almost 43 bucks.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110415-702250.html

alkemical
04-15-2011, 09:09 AM
I'm meeting with some people from Baltimore about starting a local currency here.

loborugger
04-15-2011, 09:39 AM
I'm meeting with some people from Baltimore about starting a local currency here.

They have started those up in Michigan already.

alkemical
04-15-2011, 09:40 AM
They have started those up in Michigan already.

Yep, i've been "researching" for about 9 months on this topic and am ready to start making it happen here.

I'm very excited. Is there anything like this where you live?

alkemical
04-15-2011, 09:58 AM
http://mises.org/daily/5196/Utah-Recognizes-Gold-Coins-to-Be-Money

Utah Recognizes Gold Coins to Be Money

The state of Utah has recently enacted a law by which the gold coins issued by the US Mint are to be considered money and, therefore, not subject to capital-gains taxation. The law does not apply to foreign-issued coins, such as South African Krugerrands, by far the most popular precious-metal coin in the world. Nor does the law apply to privately issued coins, such as the so-called Ron Paul Dollar. Capital gains on the US-issued coins would still be subject to federal taxation.

mhgaffney
04-16-2011, 08:11 AM
Silver just climbed above $43/ounce.

Garcia Bronco will have to eat his shorts in public before this is over.

baja
04-16-2011, 08:50 AM
Gold is $1,487 an ounce. Thanks for the heads up about Gold being a bad investment Garcia I almost bought some of the shiit. Tell me what's yur take on the Internet you thing it will ever amount to anything.

loborugger
04-17-2011, 09:50 AM
Yep, i've been "researching" for about 9 months on this topic and am ready to start making it happen here.

I'm very excited. Is there anything like this where you live?

If there is, I havent heard about it. It seems that this local currency thing hits areas that having negative population growth as industry leaves, ie the rust belt.

What incentive do you provide to have people use the local currency vs the using Fed Reserve Notes? I assume they give a discount?

loborugger
04-17-2011, 09:53 AM
http://mises.org/daily/5196/Utah-Recognizes-Gold-Coins-to-Be-Money

Utah Recognizes Gold Coins to Be Money

The state of Utah has recently enacted a law by which the gold coins issued by the US Mint are to be considered money and, therefore, not subject to capital-gains taxation. The law does not apply to foreign-issued coins, such as South African Krugerrands, by far the most popular precious-metal coin in the world. Nor does the law apply to privately issued coins, such as the so-called Ron Paul Dollar. Capital gains on the US-issued coins would still be subject to federal taxation.

I have seen this. Its a nice idea and a nice political statement. However, as the saying goes "bad money drives good money into hiding." For example, why would I buy a 5 thousand dollar car with 5 grand worth of silver - which I know is gonna go up in value in the next five years - when I can pay for it in dollars - which I know are gonna lose value in the next five years?

Arkie
04-17-2011, 12:22 PM
I have seen this. Its a nice idea and a nice political statement. However, as the saying goes "bad money drives good money into hiding." For example, why would I buy a 5 thousand dollar car with 5 grand worth of silver - which I know is gonna go up in value in the next five years - when I can pay for it in dollars - which I know are gonna lose value in the next five years?

I would spend the dollars if I had both dollars and silver for that very reason, but I probably wouldn't own dollars if silver were legal. The price of a car goes up every year in dollars, not silver. The same weight in silver buys the car because they both went up.

baja
04-17-2011, 12:29 PM
What would $15,000 in silver at 1960 prices buy today.

You could buy a house for that in 1960.

alkemical
04-17-2011, 01:14 PM
If there is, I havent heard about it. It seems that this local currency thing hits areas that having negative population growth as industry leaves, ie the rust belt.

What incentive do you provide to have people use the local currency vs the using Fed Reserve Notes? I assume they give a discount?

we will probably look @ the 'discount model' for how the culture is here. There are different models.

Baltimore's model might be the best fit for this area.

Incentives are not just $, but also community driven. It does help keep local $'s local.

loborugger
04-17-2011, 01:54 PM
we will probably look @ the 'discount model' for how the culture is here. There are different models.

Baltimore's model might be the best fit for this area.

Incentives are not just $, but also community driven. It does help keep local $'s local.

Well, that only works if the community as a whole buys into the concept. I don't disagree with you. However, the idea of something 'being good for the community' is an esoteric and not tangible idea. Its hard to rally folks around that. Much easier to rally folks around the idea of "use this, pay less."

orinjkrush
04-17-2011, 06:47 PM
wouldn't going back on the gold standard, state by state, in essence be the end of fiat currency and the fractional reserve system?? inquiring minds want to know!

alkemical
04-17-2011, 07:46 PM
Well, that only works if the community as a whole buys into the concept. I don't disagree with you. However, the idea of something 'being good for the community' is an esoteric and not tangible idea. Its hard to rally folks around that. Much easier to rally folks around the idea of "use this, pay less."

that aspect has already been circulated, as i have ten local businesses ready for it. they are helping to back it to help stabalize a certain market. (b2b)

loborugger
04-17-2011, 11:12 PM
wouldn't going back on the gold standard, state by state, in essence be the end of fiat currency and the fractional reserve system?? inquiring minds want to know!

I wouldnt think so. The US G still allows the Fed Res to issue our national currency. And again, it goes back to what I said a couple of posts ago, bad money drives good money into hiding. Few will pay with silver and gold that will only increase in value while the rest will pay with dollars which are only gonna decrease in value. But again, if it works as an education and exemplary tool, then I am all for it. I think our generation will have to learn what those who lived thru the revolution did... "a wagon full of money wont buy a wagon full of supplies."

baja
04-17-2011, 11:36 PM
wouldn't going back on the gold standard, state by state, in essence be the end of fiat currency and the fractional reserve system?? inquiring minds want to know!

Only if everybody treats it like the worthless paper it really is.

Arkie
04-18-2011, 10:22 AM
we will probably look @ the 'discount model' for how the culture is here. There are different models.

Baltimore's model might be the best fit for this area.

Incentives are not just $, but also community driven. It does help keep local $'s local.

The main incentive would be because of sound money with stable prices. Everybody will see the goods going up in Federal Reserve Notes, but they stay the same price in the local currency.

alkemical
04-18-2011, 11:12 AM
The main incentive would be because of sound money with stable prices. Everybody will see the goods going up in Federal Reserve Notes, but they stay the same price in the local currency.

B2B gets that, but the "consumer" is a little behind yet.

I'm also looking at printing up some literature as a primer to get public support. B2B was easy to gain support when I went over the "top level" view of it.

I'm hoping that this new group of people i'm going to be interacting with soon has a good grasp on the things I don't.

cutthemdown
04-18-2011, 11:53 AM
The problem is when do you cash it in to something you can use to buy good or services. There is a bubble, and gold could crash, will crash at some point. The reality is you can't buy much with it without exchanging it for currency.

The day you just weight out some gold to buy something isn't coming.

Arkie
04-18-2011, 01:45 PM
Is There A Limit To Precious Metals Prices? (http://www.businessinsider.com/is-there-a-limit-to-precious-metals-prices-2011-4)

Gold and silver prices continue to skyrocket as we expected. Most of the recent price movements have been driven by supply and demand factors that are yet to be fully understood by the broader public. But as prices move ever higher, the commentary in favor of some kind of precious metals bubble gets louder. So, outside of fundamental supply/demand dynamics, is there a justification for these prices?


First off, gold and silver prices may be at (gold) or approaching (silver) nominal highs, but are well below inflation-adjusted highs. Depending on your definition of inflation, the inflation-adjusted high for gold is about $2,200 per ounce. For silver it is about $850 per ounce. Both were set in 1980.

When we talk about fundamental values for both, we are not really talking about any intrinsic value. What we are really talking about is their value as alternative forms of money. Again, and this point cannot be stressed enough, the price of gold does not change – the currency you are comparing it to does. If the price of gold rises in US dollar terms, this simply means that the US dollar is losing comparative value as a means of exchange.

In this context it is entirely appropriate to compare precious metals in inflation-adjusted terms. Inflation itself is a monetary phenomenon that is nothing more than currency debasement. And so it stands to reason that the more a currency is debased the more an alternative is to be sought.

Those inflation era highs can be a good basis of comparison, but it must be remembered that they were set during double-digit inflation and interest rates. We are not there, yet.

In terms of currency alternatives, though, the present time may be the most dangerous. The just-concluded 3rd BRICS summit (Brazil, Russia, India, China, and recently added South Africa) showcased a lot of open talk about replacing the dollar as the world’s reserve currency. They even went so far as to begin discussing details of trade regimes that are denominated in local currencies instead of US dollars.

This is not the only time a dollar alternative has been discussed. In fact, the dollar noise is growing louder.

How would this all impact gold, and by extension silver?

For one, any new global currency regime would have to include the metals – even under the auspices of the International Monetary Fund’s (IMF) Special Drawing Rights (SDR). So if we turn to the largest holder of gold, the United States, we can draw a speculative line between its gold holdings and the Federal Reserve’s balance sheet.

The US dollar is a function of the credit extended by the Federal Reserve, which is far above simply the number of Federal Reserve Notes in existence. Currently (as of April 14, 2011) the Fed has extended an astounding 2.7 trillion “dollars” to the financial system, including $1 trillion in actual currency and $1.18 trillion in bank reserves.

Backing this currency is $1.37 trillion in US Treasury Securities, $131 billion in federal agency debt (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac), $937 billion in mortgage-backed securities, $43 billion in Treasury currency, and some other assorted “assets”, including $5.2 billion in IMF SDR’s. Gold only accounts for $11 billion.

But the gold stock (certificates) on the Federal Reserve’s books is being valued at the same price as the 1933 dollar devaluation, $42.2222 per fine troy ounce. In total, the Federal Reserve is currently using 261,499,000 troy ounces of gold as “collateral” for the dollar at 78-year old prices.

If we value these holdings at current market prices ($1,485), the value on the Fed’s books would be $388 billion, still only 14.3% of the Fed’s liabilities. To fully back the dollar with gold would mean a price of $10,337 per ounce. And that gives the Fed full credit for its gold holdings.

We know that not all of the government’s gold is actually in the possession of the government at Fort Knox. The US has been leasing gold for years. The exact proportion of actual, physical gold to paper claims (leasing agreements) is, and will be, unknowable. But if we are talking about a paradigm shift in the international financial system then paper claims will not be enough.

This may seem like an outrageous proposition, but considering the lack of support for the dollar right now the conditions are ripening for a Bretton Woods-style change. Even if there is a move to SDR’s, there has to be some collateral behind them far above just financial paper, including US Treasuries. In any conversion, the price of gold will have to be adjusted to any set proportion of capital contributions to the new international regime(s).

Since the US is the biggest holder (we think) then it may get the largest credit and/or concessions. That may mean some amount of Fed “assets”, including mortgage notes and US Treasuries will be allowed as currency collateral. Or it may include other commodities such as oil – which the US is in possession of in its strategic reserves.

Whatever may happen, we know that a gold coverage of 14.3% of all dollars is likely not nearly enough. Just to get to a 50% collateral arrangement, the price would have to rise to $5,168 per ounce. Since silver is historically related to gold at 16 to 1, that would translate to $323 per ounce of silver.

For many people this line of thinking is far-fetched and may seem like lunacy and fear-mongering. Yet these are exactly the kinds of discussions that foreign governments have been having for well over a year. Investors should not sit back and allow recency bias (the belief that because something has not happened in the recent past it will not happen at all) to blind them to what is a real possibility.

Context conditioning is certainly at play – people have now grown accustomed to massive monetary intervention. Four years ago the thought of the Federal Reserve’s balance sheet above $1 trillion was just as offending. Federal Reserve purchases of US Treasury debt was thought an absolute impossibility. So there has already been a paradigm shift in the dollar’s structure. Why should we expect that everyone is on board with it?

Now that we have become partially untethered to past “rules” and practices of monetary conventions, can it not be just as likely that the ultimate solution will be in the opposite direction of the current altered regime? Fundamental shifts are both unpredictable and volatile.

Getting back to gold and silver prices, there is no ceiling in the context of dollar uncertainty. Being so far below inflation-adjusted prices provides ample support on its own. Any additional probabilities of currency realignments just adds to that support. Whether or not the dollar’s reserve currency status is revoked is only part of the equation. In the much bigger picture, people around the world are growing very tired of always getting the short end of universal debasement and manipulation (and this is not just a US creation).

While we may not yet have passed the tipping point, we should at least consider that there may come a time when paper claims on assets will no longer be provided the same value as real, tangible assets. Any shift toward that perception, whether a radical overhaul or even a partial change, requires a fundamental revaluation of the relationship between currency and metal.

baja
04-18-2011, 01:50 PM
Those of you that do not understand gold's place in the financial world should read the above post by arkie it's everything you need to know about gold but were afraid to ask.

baja
04-18-2011, 01:52 PM
The problem is when do you cash it in to something you can use to buy good or services. There is a bubble, and gold could crash, will crash at some point. The reality is you can't buy much with it without exchanging it for currency.

The day you just weight out some gold to buy something isn't coming.

You really need to read Arkie's post right under yours.

loborugger
04-18-2011, 07:11 PM
But the gold stock (certificates) on the Federal Reserve’s books is being valued at the same price as the 1933 dollar devaluation, $42.2222 per fine troy ounce. In total, the Federal Reserve is currently using 261,499,000 troy ounces of gold as “collateral” for the dollar at 78-year old prices.



Wow. I never saw this statement before.

Does this mean that our debt holders will get to buy gold at 42 bucks an oz?

Meck77
04-19-2011, 05:40 PM
Cutt let me put it this way. For those who have gold real estate is getting cheaper by the day. (Generally speaking). That is just one example of how gold is in fact a currency.

I tossed out an offer to buy some land in Dec. It was an offer of cash and gold. He was willing to accept the gold as payment at that days spot price. We differed on the overall price and did not come to terms. As gold continues to rise and his land value continues to fall I may just end up with the parcel of land at my original price in terms of dollars.

My positions in gold are long but converting to land/water is a way to capture some profits. As you've said you can't eat gold but gold is food, water, cash in any currency in the world or whatever you want.

Hey Garcia. Gold is up around $500 an oz since you declared it a bad investment. :poke::haw!:

baja
04-19-2011, 08:50 PM
http://www.stansberryresearch.com/pro/1103PSIEOAVD/LPSIM451/PR

Arkie
04-20-2011, 06:35 AM
The media isn't really covering gold. Most people didn't realize that gold set a new record close almost every day last week. Most people don't know that gold went is over $1500 for the first time ever this morning! These are not signs of a bubble.

alkemical
04-20-2011, 06:37 AM
Nope. It shows the continuing devaluing of the USD.

Things aren't JUST getting more expensive, it's also the falling U$D's value.

baja
04-20-2011, 07:17 AM
The media isn't really covering gold. Most people didn't realize that gold set a new record close almost every day last week. Most people don't know that gold went is over $1500 for the first time ever this morning! These are not signs of a bubble.

I suggest we all create as much debt as possible because the only place left to go is for the global financial cartel to agree to cancel all debt both public and private. If they don't agree there will be long years of war and revolution and after the blood bath ending up with the same result anyway,so go buy your toys now boys ;D

and remember I'm usually 2 or 3 years ahead of the trends. ;D

Garcia Bronco
04-20-2011, 07:18 AM
The media isn't really covering gold. Most people didn't realize that gold set a new record close almost every day last week. Most people don't know that gold went is over $1500 for the first time ever this morning! These are not signs of a bubble.

I just saw an hour long thing on it last friday on CNN. It is a bubble. Things only have the value we believe them to have.

alkemical
04-20-2011, 07:23 AM
http://www.blacklistednews.com/?news_id=13562

Gold is approaching $1,500 an ounce this morning as it hits a new record, while silver surpasses $43, as fiscal pressures weigh on U.S. markets. The Dow has fallen almost 200 points in early trading.

S&P maintained the AAA rating of the United States, but cited the continued unresolved budget deficits as the reason for its statement that there is a one-in-three chance that it would lower its rating on the U.S. within two years

"Because the U.S. has, relative to its 'AAA' peers, what we consider to be very large budget deficits and rising government indebtedness and the path to addressing these is not clear to us, we have revised our outlook on the long-term rating to negative from stable," the agency said in a statement.

This announcement will put further pressure on the dollar, and will most likely give weight to discussions held by George Soros and crew at Bretton Woods II about managing the global economy in the face of a U.S. dollar collapse.

Sources for this story:
Rueters/CNBC: http://www.cnbc.com/id/42643384

baja
04-20-2011, 07:25 AM
Spend your dollars as fast as you can. Buy fertile land, hand tools an old ford tractor and parts and especially heirloom seeds. Come together with a community of people that are interested in the same things you are.

Even main stream is seeing it now.

http://www.stansberryresearch.com/pro/1103PSIEOAVD/LPSIM451/PR

alkemical
04-20-2011, 07:27 AM
Spend your dollars as fast as you can. Buy fertile land, hand tools an old ford tractor and parts and especially heirloom seeds. Come together with a community of people that are interested in the same things you are.

Even main stream is seeing it now.

http://www.stansberryresearch.com/pro/1103PSIEOAVD/LPSIM451/PR

I've already been establishing this. :D

Arkie
04-20-2011, 10:55 AM
Liberty Dollar deemed counterfeit by jury. Founder speaks out. (http://www.connectmidmichigan.com/news/story.aspx?id=599121)

He produced silver, copper, and gold medallions to be bought, sold, and exchanged, but a jury calls it counterfeiting and convicted him.

Now, he's talking to NBC25.

Bernard von NotHaus, the founder of Liberty Dollar, says he's a political prisoner and that your money will soon be worth even less.

For the last 12-years, Liberty Dollar based in Evansville, Indiana, produced copper, silver, and gold rounds.

They can't be called "coins" because only the government makes those.

"People are interested in their money and when they know they're getting screwed, they get real interested in their money and that's why the government cracked down on Liberty Dollar," von NotHaus tells NBC25.

In 2010, NBC25 did a series of stories on this competing currency with thousands of people liking it and sharing it on Facebook.

Liberty Dollar says its product is different from and superior to U.S. legal tender because it's inflation-proof and based on the value of precious metals.

"In the last 10 years, the Liberty Dollar went from a $10 base to a $50 base. It increased in value 500%. The other currency in the last ten years lost 50% of its purchasing power," says von NotHaus. "How can a counterfeit be worth more than the original?"

The U.S. Government says Liberty Dollar comes too close to legal tender with its use of the inscriptions "liberty," "dollars," "trust in God" (similar to "in God we trust") and "USA."

In 2006, the U.S. Mint told the public, "Prosecutors with the Department of Justice have determined that the use of these gold and silver NORFED 'liberty dollar' medallions as circulating money is a federal crime."

For those who own his product, von NotHaus says, "I love my country, but I fear the government."

The most serious conviction carries a 15-year prison term.

Von NotHaus is appealing the conviction.

There's an April 4th court date to decide if Liberty Dollar will be forced to forfeit its products to the government.

It includes 16,000 pounds of precious metals valued at nearly $7-million.


(update: he was found not guilty)

Rohirrim
04-20-2011, 11:27 AM
http://greenlaserreviews.com/2010/12/03/stansberry-review/

baja
04-20-2011, 12:09 PM
Liberty Dollar deemed counterfeit by jury. Founder speaks out. (http://www.connectmidmichigan.com/news/story.aspx?id=599121)

He produced silver, copper, and gold medallions to be bought, sold, and exchanged, but a jury calls it counterfeiting and convicted him.

Now, he's talking to NBC25.

Bernard von NotHaus, the founder of Liberty Dollar, says he's a political prisoner and that your money will soon be worth even less.

For the last 12-years, Liberty Dollar based in Evansville, Indiana, produced copper, silver, and gold rounds.

They can't be called "coins" because only the government makes those.

"People are interested in their money and when they know they're getting screwed, they get real interested in their money and that's why the government cracked down on Liberty Dollar," von NotHaus tells NBC25.

In 2010, NBC25 did a series of stories on this competing currency with thousands of people liking it and sharing it on Facebook.

Liberty Dollar says its product is different from and superior to U.S. legal tender because it's inflation-proof and based on the value of precious metals.

"In the last 10 years, the Liberty Dollar went from a $10 base to a $50 base. It increased in value 500%. The other currency in the last ten years lost 50% of its purchasing power," says von NotHaus. "How can a counterfeit be worth more than the original?"

The U.S. Government says Liberty Dollar comes too close to legal tender with its use of the inscriptions "liberty," "dollars," "trust in God" (similar to "in God we trust") and "USA."

In 2006, the U.S. Mint told the public, "Prosecutors with the Department of Justice have determined that the use of these gold and silver NORFED 'liberty dollar' medallions as circulating money is a federal crime."

For those who own his product, von NotHaus says, "I love my country, but I fear the government."

The most serious conviction carries a 15-year prison term.

Von NotHaus is appealing the conviction.

There's an April 4th court date to decide if Liberty Dollar will be forced to forfeit its products to the government.

It includes 16,000 pounds of precious metals valued at nearly $7-million.


(update: he was found not guilty)

These are the tell tale actions governments undertake when they know their currency is tanking. These are signs of last resort efforts to prop up the failing official currency. Do not be surprised if it becomes illegal to own gold in the not too distant future.

baja
04-20-2011, 12:14 PM
http://greenlaserreviews.com/2010/12/03/stansberry-review/

No doubt the powers that be will go after Porter hard and heavy for what he is saying;

http://www.stansberryresearch.com/pro/1103PSIEOAVD/LPSIM451/PR

Arkie
04-21-2011, 11:01 AM
I just saw an hour long thing on it last friday on CNN. It is a bubble. Things only have the value we believe them to have.

You said gold was a bubble at $1000. It has slowly and methodically gone up another 50% since then. That's not a bubble. Wait until it starts moving in multiples over a period of months, then it will be breaking news everyday like in 1979.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GB10xud4tII" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

mhgaffney
04-21-2011, 11:29 AM
Silver just reached $46/ounce. It was $19/ounce last July.

loborugger
04-21-2011, 11:36 AM
These are the tell tale actions governments undertake when they know their currency is tanking. These are signs of last resort efforts to prop up the failing official currency. Do not be surprised if it becomes illegal to own gold in the not too distant future.

Currency devaluation and then changing the currency all together wont be far behind either of those two things.

baja
04-21-2011, 11:52 AM
Currency devaluation and then changing the currency all together wont be far behind either of those two things.

When the dollar fails look for a push for a cashless society. They will tell us how much safer we will all be. They will say it will cripple terrorism and kill the illegal drug trade and all the sheeple will clamor for it. Then every transaction will be recorded and taxed. Worse yet, no card = no food

baja
04-21-2011, 11:53 AM
It's all part of the plan.

alkemical
04-21-2011, 11:57 AM
When the dollar fails look for a push for a cashless society. They will tell us how much safer we will all be. They will say it will cripple terrorism and kill the illegal drug trade and all the sheeple will clamor for it. Then every transaction will be recorded and taxed. Worse yet, no card = no food

Some of "us" are trying to change the rules. :D

alkemical
04-21-2011, 11:58 AM
It's all part of the plan.

So, this whole war on drugs thingy:

What happens if all of a sudden marijuana is just growing everywhere. I mean EVERWHERE. What if it's seed bombed and it's just growing like a weed?

baja
04-21-2011, 12:07 PM
So, this whole war on drugs thingy:

What happens if all of a sudden marijuana is just growing everywhere. I mean EVERWHERE. What if it's seed bombed and it's just growing like a weed?

Monsanto will sue or send in Black Water. What a name for the guns for hire, Blackwater...

alkemical
04-21-2011, 12:12 PM
Monsanto will sue or send in Black Water. What a name for the guns for hire, Blackwater...

They are now Xe. (Z).

If so Baja, then they fear me - more than I fear them.

baja
04-21-2011, 12:14 PM
"Know thy enemy" - The Art of War

alkemical
04-21-2011, 12:14 PM
"Know thy enemy" - The Art of War

Oh I know man, i've reread it a few times these last few months.

I think I sent you an email about different "versions" as well. :D

mhgaffney
04-21-2011, 06:26 PM
I just saw an hour long thing on it last friday on CNN. It is a bubble. Things only have the value we believe them to have.

You are foolish to believe CNN.

There have been bubbles involving precious metals in the past -- when speculators tried to corner the market. But not this time.

This time -- the increase in gold/silver is a measure of lack of confidence in the economy and the dollar. No doubt, the fed has been doing everything possible to keep gold/silver down. But their influence only goes so far.

People are voting with their feet -- cashing in dollars for metal. Even if metals eventually fall -- those of us who bought last summer are still big winners. I suspect the dollar will fail, first.

MHG

Arkie
04-27-2011, 10:59 AM
Blastoff!
http://www.kitco.com/images/live/gold.gif

Meck77
04-27-2011, 11:17 AM
Basically the market is saying "Bernake you are a ****ing idiot"............and people continue to buy precious medals as a result.

I wonder how many OZs bernake is sitting on.

mhgaffney
04-27-2011, 01:46 PM
Maybe someone should grab Bernanke -- hold him upside down by his ankles and shake him.

I betcha enuf gold and silver would fall out of his pockets to cover the deficit and even pay down the debt for a few months.

broncocalijohn
04-27-2011, 11:53 PM
Great bumped thread from 2009. If you can short on gold or bet against it, is Garcia Bronco ready to throw himself out of the window on draft day instead of his computer?

loborugger
04-29-2011, 12:20 PM
gold has surged this week. Approaching 1575.

alkemical
04-29-2011, 12:28 PM
This thread should say "Dollar dropping to new lows"...

Maybe the limbo thread?

Arkie
04-29-2011, 02:22 PM
Some interesting quotes from Russell's recent Dow Theory letter...

"We're moving nearer and nearer to the edge of the hurricane. I can feel it in my bones. Every newspaper now carries an ad for gold. The ironic clincher was this ad below that I clipped from a weekly newspaper.

"Is there a gold bubble? Are you kidding me? Here's an ad that somebody paid for suggesting that people should turn in their gold (!!) for Federal Reserve Notes. They're not telling you to buy gold during one of the greatest bull markets in history – hardly, they're asking you to throw parties in which the object is to get ignorant people to SELL their gold.

"I can feel them caressing my face – the early breezes. They are blowing gently and hinting of the forthcoming gold hurricane that will sweep across the US and the planet with all the force and power that was seen when gold was first discovered at Sutter's Creek during the California gold rush of 1849. The gold rush of the 2000s is in the wings. The old phrase is ringing in my ears again (I haven't heard it since the late '70s): ‘There's no fever like gold fever.'

"If the temperature of full gold fever is a hot 106, we're only at 99 now, but I can feel it, I can tell you that the temperature is rising, rising.

"The panic to buy gold will override everything else. It will be one of the greatest financial phenomena that most of today's investors will ever see. It will blot out everything else like a cloud blotting out the sun.

"After the calm, comes the storm. We've been watching 10 years of gold climbing amid an atmosphere of calm. The great gold tsunami lies ahead. It will be historic.

"… BEFORE the great gold tsunami we might have a frightening gold correction that would clean out all the gold sceptics. This ‘clean out' may be necessary prior to the big gold tsunami, and it's a reason to hold some cash and not put ALL your money into gold at this time. Remember the old adage – ‘The market always does what it's supposed to — BUT NEVER WHEN'."

mosca
04-29-2011, 05:20 PM
Gold and especially silver have been and continue to absolutely kick arse. Anyone on here watch Max Keiser? Guy might be a little over the top, but his advice on silver has been absolutely spot-on lately. Silver has been on a rampage the last few months.

loborugger
04-29-2011, 09:14 PM
Gold and especially silver have been and continue to absolutely kick arse. Anyone on here watch Max Keiser? Guy might be a little over the top, but his advice on silver has been absolutely spot-on lately. Silver has been on a rampage the last few months.

I like Keiser. Bust JP Morgan.

Arkie
04-29-2011, 11:07 PM
These "Host-a-party" events always try to sell you something from Tupperware to Avon to Federal Reserve Notes.

http://www.newyorkgoldrush.com/uploaded_files/tinymce/images/cash_for_gold_buyer_host_a_gold_party_cash_4_gold. jpg

alkemical
04-30-2011, 04:42 AM
lol!

chadta
04-30-2011, 06:47 AM
every spring we have a street sale, clean out all the crap and what not, and some crazy old guy on a moped comes around buying gold, hes got a little pocket scale and pays fair market value. Im starting to think he aint so crazy after all.

cutthemdown
04-30-2011, 09:15 PM
So, this whole war on drugs thingy:

What happens if all of a sudden marijuana is just growing everywhere. I mean EVERWHERE. What if it's seed bombed and it's just growing like a weed?

There would be a lot of ditch weed with seeds that is no fun to smoke. Good pot takes time to grow right. It wouldn't be much different then expecting some crop like corn to just grow itself by dropping seeds.

loborugger
04-30-2011, 10:09 PM
There would be a lot of ditch weed with seeds that is no fun to smoke. Good pot takes time to grow right. It wouldn't be much different then expecting some crop like corn to just grow itself by dropping seeds.

Really? Do tell?

broncocalijohn
04-30-2011, 10:16 PM
Really? Do tell?

He is a musician, what do you expect?

Odysseus
05-01-2011, 12:24 AM
What WOULD be the trigger for gold to crash?

baja
05-01-2011, 12:25 AM
free energy

Odysseus
05-01-2011, 12:41 AM
free energy

1. Oil not pegged to dollar / Currency change
2. Currency shift towards Euro
3. China forgives American debt :spit:
4. Real fiscal policy with real accounting

Free energy? That would destroy consumerism. Oil maintains the system in place. No oil. No consumerism. America is never surrendering it's addiction. We would rather create a global war than switch.

mhgaffney
05-01-2011, 02:02 AM
1. Oil not pegged to dollar / Currency change
2. Currency shift towards Euro
3. China forgives American debt :spit:
4. Real fiscal policy with real accounting

Free energy? That would destroy consumerism. Oil maintains the system in place. No oil. No consumerism. America is never surrendering it's addiction. We would rather create a global war than switch.

Right.

There are striking parallels between the BRitish empire at the start of the 20th century -- and the US empire today. We are following in the footsteps of the Brits. At that time the Brits faced the rising economic power of Germany -- and this led to WW I and WW II.

Expect global war at the end of the US empire -- unless we can wake up enough people, in time, and prevent it.

Odysseus
05-01-2011, 02:26 AM
Right.

There are striking parallels between the BRitish empire at the start of the 20th century -- and the US empire today. We are following in the footsteps of the Brits. At that time the Brits faced the rising economic power of Germany -- and this led to WW I and WW II.

Expect global war at the end of the US empire -- unless we can wake up enough people, in time, and prevent it.

I would argue we are already in a global war and that the real battle lines are being drawn and redrawn without the fanfare typical of past wars.

Consider our media. What do they actually report to us? News or popularized fiction? If the media is not reporting anything and the people who do take issue are usurped who then is left to speak the truth?

How do create a coup without killing anyone? There are no martyrs in the press. President Carter was played but that was not widely reported. We won't see what really happens until long after it has unfolded. What plays out in plain view is not as straight forward.

Politically we are all on the same side. The neutered and voiceless public.

Meck77
05-03-2011, 07:27 PM
I'm not nearly as bullish on silver as gold but there is a buying opportunity forming if you are considering cashing out some stocks or been on the sidelines.

I think the hysteria is settling and it's heading closer to it's 120 day moving average as it should.

http://www.monex.com/prods/silver_chart.html

Oh and we'll be hitting the debt ceiling again May 16th.

We're like the fat kid in school who always spent his lunch money on candy before lunch time. He was always hungry and out of money by noon borrowing more to eat.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-to-hit-debt-limit-may-16-geithner-reiterates-2011-05-02

Arkie
05-04-2011, 10:09 PM
What WOULD be the trigger for gold to crash?

Think in terms of PURCHASING POWER. Are you gaining or losing purchasing power by holding dollars vs gold? I can see gold correcting $200-300 short-term, but it wouldn't stay down there for long. Pegging the dollar to gold would only trigger it to flat-line.

Arkie
05-04-2011, 10:14 PM
I'm not nearly as bullish on silver as gold but there is a buying opportunity forming if you are considering cashing out some stocks or been on the sidelines.

I think the hysteria is settling and it's heading closer to it's 120 day moving average as it should.

http://www.monex.com/prods/silver_chart.html

Oh and we'll be hitting the debt ceiling again May 16th.

We're like the fat kid in school who always spent his lunch money on candy before lunch time. He was always hungry and out of money by noon borrowing more to eat.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-to-hit-debt-limit-may-16-geithner-reiterates-2011-05-02

The debt ceiling is just an imaginary barrier. It doesn't stop the debt, so what's the purpose?

Odysseus
05-04-2011, 10:48 PM
Think in terms of PURCHASING POWER. Are you gaining or losing purchasing power by holding dollars vs gold? I can see gold correcting $200-300 short-term, but it wouldn't stay down there for long. Pegging the dollar to gold would only trigger it to flat-line.

Makes sense. You are right about the debt ceiling. The Fed has been using imaginary numbers for years.

Silver took a serious dump. I am still a hold on Gold.

baja
05-05-2011, 05:33 AM
You got 3 or 4 months to make hay while confidence is strong so solidify your position in whatever you have planned to ride through the rough waters ahead.

Meck77
05-05-2011, 01:02 PM
Soros and the big boys should be buying silver again soon. Wait and be patient. As I always say the trend is your friend.

Silver just broke 35 a critical barrier.

mhgaffney
05-05-2011, 05:42 PM
Silver was a great investment last July at $19/ ounce.

Industry has more than a thousand uses for silver -- whereas gold is useless.

This drain on supply will keep silver prices up. The recent slump will be short lived.

The sky is the limit for silver.

Meck77
05-06-2011, 06:33 PM
Pretty cool site if you want to get in on the silver racket. Err I mean silver investment!

Great site to avoid large premiums to the brokers!

http://www.bulliondirect.com/nucleo/lp/American_Eagle_Silver_Coin_%281.00_oz%29.html

cutthemdown
05-09-2011, 02:43 AM
Silver does have tons more uses in industry. The people in India however are driving gold prices through the roof. The are the biggest consumers of gold products. Making gold Jewelery is so big there. They give gold as presents like we give gift cards. :)

cutthemdown
05-09-2011, 02:47 AM
He is a musician, what do you expect?

I got so stoned I forget what we were talking about.......Oh yeah I'm just saying I doubt you just toss seeds out and grow great pot lol. I mean cmon do i really need to go more in depth then that? LOL!

All I really need to know about pot is where my medical collective is. :) But if you can just toss some seeds I'm going to toss some by the drainage ditch by my house. Anyone got some Orange Kush!

alkemical
05-09-2011, 05:46 AM
There would be a lot of ditch weed with seeds that is no fun to smoke. Good pot takes time to grow right. It wouldn't be much different then expecting some crop like corn to just grow itself by dropping seeds.

This isn't a point about "quality", this is a point about changing the culture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seed_ball

Clay Seed Balls or "earth balls" (粘土 団子、土 団子 nendo dango, tsuchi dango?, lit. (粘 -Sticky, 土 -Earth) -Clay, 団子 -Dumplings) consist of a variety of different seeds rolled within a ball of clay, preferably volcanic plastic red clay into which various additives maybe included, such as a humus or compost. These are placed around the seeds at the centre of the ball to provide microbial inoculants. Cotton-fibres or liquified paper are mixed into the clay in order to strengthen it, or liquified paper mash coated on the outside to further protect the clay ball during sowing by throwing, or in particularly harsh habitats.

Generally about 5 measures of red clay by volume are combined with one measure of seeds. The balls are formed between 10mm and 80mm in diameter.[1]

Seedballs have use in nearly any regions where plants can grow for reseeding ecosystems into areas of man-made deserts, avoiding seed eating insects and animals, protecting seeds until rains fall to soak the clay ball and stimulating the seeds. Seeds contained in such balls then germinate in ideal conditions for each climate-region.

alkemical
05-09-2011, 05:48 AM
What's the ROI on flying a helicopter over 5 counties of a state, looking for growers?

the cost of something that is failing, doesn't seem to be a good way to spend the $.

Meck77
05-10-2011, 10:30 PM
Uncle Sam is getting $1785 an eagle right now.
http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&categoryId=10118&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=10191&top_category=10191


They've sold a few.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-09/u-s-mint-gold-american-eagle-coin-sales-quicken-this-month-1-.html

ASEs American Silver Eagles have bounced back. Typical price is 4 to 5 bucks over the spot price which has come up to $38.77 from a low of $33.50 after the recent crash.

cutthemdown
05-11-2011, 12:50 AM
This isn't a point about "quality", this is a point about changing the culture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seed_ball

Sorry I just don't weed as an issue that matters. Do I think we should put the seeds into clay balls and drop them everywhere to change the culture? No its the stupidest thing I have ever heard and I'm stoned out of my mind right now. Still it sounds stupid. Let me take another toke and then see. Nope still seems silly.

Better to use any resources to seed hillside with fast growing ground covers to stop landslides, or reforresting fire areas etc etc. I just don't see the weed across America as being important!

alkemical
05-11-2011, 06:15 AM
Sorry I just don't weed as an issue that matters. Do I think we should put the seeds into clay balls and drop them everywhere to change the culture? No its the stupidest thing I have ever heard and I'm stoned out of my mind right now. Still it sounds stupid. Let me take another toke and then see. Nope still seems silly.

Better to use any resources to seed hillside with fast growing ground covers to stop landslides, or reforresting fire areas etc etc. I just don't see the weed across America as being important!

You can do that too. I don't know where you live, but in my state they spend millions of dollars a day to fly a helicopter (over 5 counties) to spot growers.

IF it's EVERYWHERE - what are they going to do? Ramp up resources that are dwindling? OR change the way they approach the problem?

Arkie
05-12-2011, 02:03 PM
A return to the gold standard by the United States within the next five years now seems likely, because that move would help the nation solve a variety of economic, fiscal, and monetary ills, Steve Forbes predicted during an exclusive interview this week with HUMAN EVENTS.

“What seems astonishing today could become conventional wisdom in a short period of time,” Forbes said.

Such a move would help to stabilize the value of the dollar, restore confidence among foreign investors in U.S. government bonds, and discourage reckless federal spending, the media mogul and former presidential candidate said. The United States used gold as the basis for valuing the U.S. dollar successfully for roughly 180 years before President Richard Nixon embarked upon an experiment to end the practice in the 1970s that has contributed to a number of woes that the country is suffering from now, Forbes added.

If the gold standard had been in place in recent years, the value of the U.S. dollar would not have weakened as it has and excessive federal spending would have been curbed, Forbes told HUMAN EVENTS. The constantly changing value of the U.S. dollar leads to marketplace uncertainty and consequently spurs speculation in commodity investing as a hedge against inflation.

The only probable 2012 U.S. presidential candidate who has championed a return to the gold standard so far is Rep. Ron Paul (R.-Tex.). But the idea “makes too much sense” not to gain popularity as the U.S. economy struggles to create jobs, recover from a housing bubble induced by the Federal Reserve’s easy-money policies, stop rising gasoline prices, and restore fiscal responsibility to U.S. government’s budget, Forbes insisted.

With a stable currency, it is “much harder” for governments to borrow excessively, Forbes said. Without lax Federal Reserve System monetary policies that led to the printing of too much money, the housing bubble would not have been nearly as severe, he added.

“When it comes to exchange rates and monetary policy, people often don’t grasp” what is at stake for the economy, Forbes said. By restoring the gold standard, the United States would shift away from “less responsible policies” and toward a stronger dollar and a stronger America, he said. “If the dollar was as good as gold, other countries would want to buy it.”

An encouraging sign for Forbes is that key lawmakers besides Rep. Paul are recognizing that the Fed is straying well beyond its intended role of promoting stable prices and full employment with its monetary policies.

Forbes cited Rep. Paul Ryan (R.-Wis.), who, he believes, understands monetary policy better than most lawmakers and has shown a willingness to ask tough but necessary questions. For example, when Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke appeared before the House Budget Committee in February, Ryan, who chairs the panel, asked Bernanke bluntly how many jobs the Fed’s quantitative-easing program had helped to create.

Politicians need to “get over” the notion that the Fed can guide the economy with monetary policy. The Fed is like a “bull in a China shop," Forbes said. “It can’t help but knock things down.”

“People know that something is wrong with the dollar," Forbes concluded. "You cannot trash your money without repercussions.”

alkemical
05-13-2011, 05:52 AM
May I ask a question?

What sort of "correction" would happen by switching to a gold standard in economic terms?

Meck77
05-15-2011, 09:52 AM
Another reason to buy gold. Geithner. Read this.

How many more trillions does this Jackass and obama think they can print off?

http://blogs.voanews.com/breaking-news/2011/05/14/geithner-catastrophic-consequences-if-debt-limit-not-raised/

Geithner: ‘Catastrophic Consequences’ If Debt Limit Not Raised
Saturday, May 14th, 2011 at 11:05 pm UTC
Posted 17 hours ago

The U.S. treasury secretary is warning of “catastrophic consequences” if lawmakers fail to raise the limit on the amount of money the United States can borrow.

Timothy Geithner said in a letter dated Friday that if Congress does not raise the debt ceiling beyond its current level of $14.3 trillion, it will “force the United States to default” on payments to military personnel, businesses, and investors.

He said defaulting would increase the cost of borrowing money — meaning a larger proportion of future payments would go towards interest rather than paying down the debt itself. And he said the higher interest rates would also be passed on to individuals, businesses, and local governments.

Geithner wrote that this would cause “far-reaching damage” to the economy, reduce growth, increase unemployment, and could plunge the economy into another recession.

continued...........

Arkie
05-15-2011, 05:58 PM
May I ask a question?

What sort of "correction" would happen by switching to a gold standard in economic terms?

If the Fed backed the entire M2 money supply with all the gold reserves in the treasury, it would make gold about $35,000/oz.

baja
05-15-2011, 06:09 PM
If the Fed backed the entire M2 money supply with all the gold reserves in the treasury, it would make gold about $35,000/oz.

And that is a total estimate because the Fed stopped publishing the M2 amounts a couple of years ago so almost nobody knows the true amount which is akin to a licence to create free money.

Arkie
05-15-2011, 06:33 PM
And that is a total estimate because the Fed stopped publishing the M2 amounts a couple of years ago so almost nobody knows the true amount which is akin to a licence to create free money.

They publish M2. It's 9 trillion. They quit publishing M3. Who knows that absurd amount?

alkemical
05-17-2011, 09:51 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/15/your-money/15stra.html?ref=business

Suddenly, Gold Isn’t Looking So Solid

Rohirrim
05-17-2011, 01:52 PM
Billionaire financier George Soros, who called gold "the ultimate bubble," dumped almost his entire $800 million stake in bullion in the first quarter, well before a commodities slump blamed partly on reports he was liquidating his holdings.

Famed gold bull John Paulson held his ground, but Soros was joined in the retreat by several other big names, including Eric Mindich and Paul Touradji, according to 13-F filings with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission that provide the best insight into where hedge funds are placing their bets.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/17/george-soros-gold_n_863083.html

bowtown
05-17-2011, 02:04 PM
But it's so shiney!