The Independent Thread

[Tombstone RJ]

Anyone here besides me not a Democrat nor a Republican? Any Independent thinkers here?

[alkemical]

uhm, do i count?

[Tombstone RJ]

uhm, do i count?

Are you a member of a political party? If so, is the political party Democrat or Republican?

Actually, I'm kinda curious as to how many real independents are on this board. The national media always talks about the presidential candidates trying to get the independent's votes and in reality, I don't know very many "Independent" voters.

So, just thought I'd ask...

[alkemical]

I'm registered Libertarian.

[Tombstone RJ]

Please be honest. If you are a Democrat or a Republican, just admit it. If you are a Republican or a Democrat that kinda thinks he or she is more "independent" than a party line affiliate, that's ok to admit too...

[Tombstone RJ]

I'm registered Libertarian.

Good for you! I like you already!!





























































Not that there's anything wrong with being a Democrat or Republican...

[Rohirrim]

I'm a registered Independent.

[Tombstone RJ]

I'm a registered Independent.

Cool! Hey, that's three people so far!

[SPfloppy]

Nope it's the GOP for me, I do have some moderate tendencies

[Smiling Assassin27]

I'm a registered Independent.

Ditto.

[TheDave]

I'm a registered Independent.

Me to...

[atomicbloke]

I am independent, but have voted Democrat in the 3 presidential elections since I became old enough.... Gore, Kerry and Obama....

[snowspot66]

I'm somewhere between a Libertarian and a Democrat these days. Which means I'll probably only vote for mostly Democrats the rest of my life seeing as how there is never any other options.

[Tombstone RJ]

I'm somewhere between a Libertarian and a Democrat these days. Which means I'll probably only vote for mostly Democrats the rest of my life seeing as how there is never any other options.

Isn't that the unfortunate truth. Forced to vote either Repub or Dem with no viable third choice...

As much as the Dems and the Repubs dislike each other, they both know that to protect their parties, they cannot and will not allow a third party to enter the playing field.

IMHO a viable third party is the only way to save Congress and the White House, that's how bad I think it's getting.

[barryr]

I'm a registered Independent.

Oh, BS. There isn't a democrat you don't apologize for.

[Rohirrim]

Isn't that the unfortunate truth. Forced to vote either Repub or Dem with no viable third choice...

As much as the Dems and the Repubs dislike each other, they both know that to protect their parties, they cannot and will not allow a third party to enter the playing field.

IMHO a viable third party is the only way to save Congress and the White House, that's how bad I think it's getting.

I agree. I registered as a Republican in the last election so I could caucus for Ron Paul, but then at the caucus it was pretty much a done deal. They didn't want to hear from anybody who wasn't right down the line with McCain and shut out all dissent. Even then, I didn't agree with all of Paul's ideas, mostly the idea that we would dismantle the military/industrial complex, pull all of our troops home, and stop us from being the world's policeman. I ended up voting for Obama mostly because I think Palin is a total moron and I didn't want her sitting there just in case a president in his 70s started feeling unwell. And if that's any indication of the choices McCain was going to make, sorry Charlie. So far, I'm very disappointed in Obama. He's a good talker, but that seems to be about it. Frankly, I think he thinks too much.

To me, the number one issue in this country now is that Wall Street and corporate oligarchs own our government. Look at the health care debate. The bill being considered basically shovels a half a trillion dollars in taxpayer money at the health insurance industry while reforming nothing. No wonder their stocks took off when the Baucus bill was brought forward. The two worst things that ever happened to America were the idea that corporations were persons, and the National Security Act under Truman that allowed the creation of our national security state. Since neither party is going to do anything to undo either of those, the only hope we have is a third party.

I've spent my entire adult life voting for the lesser of two evils.

[barryr]

I used to be a registered republican, but since I'm more a conservative, that really hasn't been the republican party for awhile now and are more like democrats with big spending and bigger government. I am now listed as independent since even the Libertarian Party, I have issues with like their position of doing nothing about the borders.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Oh, BS. There isn't a democrat you don't apologize for.


He has a t-shirt that says, 'My two favorite teams are the Denver Broncos and whoever denigrates Rightards.' :sunshine:

[Rohirrim]

There is a reason that barryr is the only person on this board I have on ignore. ;D

Anyway, right off the top of my head, I despise Pelosi and Reid. I consider them the worst form of lowlife, compromised politician. I also feel the same way about Christopher Dodd and Barney Frank who were in the Fannie Mae debacle up to their eyeballs and now pretend they are some kind of holy avengers of truth. Dodd is a ****ing serpent. Leiberman is the biggest scum sucking pig of all time who, IMO, only serves the interests of Israel. Who else... I like Kucinich. That little guy has bigger balls than all the rest of those hypocrites on Capitol Hill.

BTW, I know Rangel is a crook, but I still find him funny. So sue me. ;D

[Tombstone RJ]

I agree. I registered as a Republican in the last election so I could caucus for Ron Paul, but then at the caucus it was pretty much a done deal. They didn't want to hear from anybody who wasn't right down the line with McCain and shut out all dissent. Even then, I didn't agree with all of Paul's ideas, mostly the idea that we would dismantle the military/industrial complex, pull all of our troops home, and stop us from being the world's policeman. I ended up voting for Obama mostly because I think Palin is a total moron and I didn't want her sitting there just in case a president in his 70s started feeling unwell. And if that's any indication of the choices McCain was going to make, sorry Charlie. So far, I'm very disappointed in Obama. He's a good talker, but that seems to be about it. Frankly, I think he thinks too much.

To me, the number one issue in this country now is that Wall Street and corporate oligarchs own our government. Look at the health care debate. The bill being considered basically shovels a half a trillion dollars in taxpayer money at the health insurance industry while reforming nothing. No wonder their stocks took off when the Baucus bill was brought forward. The two worst things that ever happened to America were the idea that corporations were persons, and the National Security Act under Truman that allowed the creation of our national security state. Since neither party is going to do anything to undo either of those, the only hope we have is a third party.

I've spent my entire adult life voting for the lesser of two evils.

It's a sad state of affairs on capital hill when the lobbyists wield the power. Another problem with congress is no set time limit on being a senator or a representative.

Also, I think anther problem with congress is that Senators and Representatives are elected from the general public in their states. This is NOT how the founding father set Congress up. The founding fathers let the state senates and house of reps elect the senators and representatives that served in Washington.

In other words, put more priority on the States ability to send Senators and Representatives to Washington by going back to the old way, that is, the states Senate and House elect someone who has served on the STATE level first!

Take the senatorial race out of the general election because all this does is allow the most wealthy to run because they have the fuggin $$$ to finance a campaign. THAT AIN'T RIGHT PEOPLE!

First make the locals of each state serve in the state's senate and house. Then from there, let the national senators and representatives get elected by a body of their peers on the state level. Makes perfect sense to me.

This would keep out the ultra wealthy who can simply buy their way onto capital hill. This would also force YOU AND ME to take our state's government way more seriously. No longer will you and I be able to sit back and not care about who is in the state senate and house. We'd have to take our state government way more seriously, AND THIS IS A GOOD THING.

The states need more power, not less. The UNION is what makes this country great, NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

Also, limit terms for Congress. Good God Almighty LIMIT THE DAMN TERMS!!

[Rohirrim]

If you think it's bad now, wait until the Roberts court decides that corporations have an unlimited right to express themselves in political campaigns in any way they see fit, just like a person. That will pretty much seal the deal. What that will mean is that, since money controls the process, nobody will be able to run against a major corporation's interests. It will be worse than the NRA and the Israel lobby. You'll have to bow down to Wall Street to seek office.

[Fedaykin]

I'm a registered Independent

[Tombstone RJ]

If you think it's bad now, wait until the Roberts court decides that corporations have an unlimited right to express themselves in political campaigns in any way they see fit, just like a person. That will pretty much seal the deal. What that will mean is that, since money controls the process, nobody will be able to run against a major corporation's interests. It will be worse than the NRA and the Israel lobby. You'll have to bow down to Wall Street to seek office.

I'm pro Israel and their lobby is more a reflection of the vast number of Jews that live in the US and want to protect Israel's interest than some corporate/industrial conglomerate.

However, I agree that the Lobbyists have way too much power. Corporations are not "the people" and do not represent "the people's" interests. They are motivated by the bottom line, period.

Again, have Congress get elected from the state's senate and house or representatives, and limit terms (10 year max).

I think doing those two moves alone cans seriously affect the lobbyiests enfluence.

[Tombstone RJ]

I'm a registered Independent

An independent thinker, good!

[loborugger]

I'm a registered Independent.

Me 3

[sisterhellfyre]

(snip of an awesome post)

I've spent my entire adult life voting for the lesser of two evils.

Roh, I could quote you word for word except for the part about registering as a Republican. Even for Ron Paul, I couldn't bring myself to do that. With that one exception, you have completely summarized my feelings about politics for the last 20 years.

I'm currently a registered Libertarian, but even reconsidering that. The Libertarians have their own loonie fringe to derail and distract their already-scant resources with rants about the gold standard (among other choice subjects). They spend too much time arguing about side issues and obscure points of philospophy from writers that... well, let's just say you'd have to be an archaeologist to recognize their names.

Yes, I think we do need a viable "Common Sense" third party. That would be a great name for it, too.

[sisterhellfyre]

If you think it's bad now, wait until the Roberts court decides that corporations have an unlimited right to express themselves in political campaigns in any way they see fit, just like a person. That will pretty much seal the deal.

The great irony of it, Roh, is that if the Roberts court makes that decision, they are really only returning to one idea of the Founding Fathers. John Jay, who served as President of the Continental Congress and later became the first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, said "The ones who own the country ought to govern it."

We all know what that meant at the time: white male landowners. I guess some things don't change much, huh?

[Bronx33]

Iam an independent this country needs a viable 3rd party the two running the show suck.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Registered Independent.

[Bronx33]

Man i really curious what all the other indys think about obamas policy thus far do you trust the guy?

[Tombstone RJ]

Man i really curious what all the other indys think about obamas policy thus far do you trust the guy?

It's way too soon to pass judgment on his overall efforts. However, I will say this: he has flat out lied about being a "transparent" administration.

Between Obama's apparent disdain for all things republican and an inept congress it doesn't look good for Obama so far.

But, if the economy strengthens as his presidency progresses, then there's not really a whole lot to b**** and moan about on his domestic policy.

As for his foreign affairs policies, I've said from the beginning he's gonna have to take his lumps and learn the hard way. Just because he's popular at home does not mean the rest of the world will cater to his every whim.

[Bronx33]

It's way too soon to pass judgment on his overall efforts. However, I will say this: he has flat out lied about being a "transparent" administration.

Between Obama's apparent disdain for all things republican and an inept congress it doesn't look good for Obama so far.

But, if the economy strengthens as his presidency progresses, then there's not really a whole lot to b**** and moan about on his domestic policy.

As for his foreign affairs policies, I've said from the beginning he's gonna have to take his lumps and learn the hard way. Just because he's popular at home does not mean the rest of the world will cater to his every whim.

Way to soon? i heard his entire campaign how he administation was going to be transparent and what does he do in his first week in office ( spends 1.5 million dollars to block his records why would he hide his citizenship info why????? i would be proud to prove it in a second ( that's a fact btw) WHY? that right there turned me the **** off i really had high hopes for the guy but honesty is HUGE in my book and hes far from it farrrrrrrrrrrr from it ( it's been documented) iam not going top pretend like it's not happening like a majority of the DEMS on this board.


Iam tired of these administrations all i saw was a massive power grab right off the bat ( that's another fact) telling me hes there for the party and not the people AS USUAL we take it in the pooper i don't see anything good coming out of this administration over any amount of time they seems to be making sure noboby votes democrat again.

Subsudized healthcare is being done! in canada! read their papers! i have! it has problems! yet this administration want's to dive in head first! WHY? healthcare will be rationed and deluted their is no other way it makes zero sense.

[Rohirrim]

The great irony of it, Roh, is that if the Roberts court makes that decision, they are really only returning to one idea of the Founding Fathers. John Jay, who served as President of the Continental Congress and later became the first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, said "The ones who own the country ought to govern it."

We all know what that meant at the time: white male landowners. I guess some things don't change much, huh?

Hell, in Jefferson's 1782 Virginia the only people who could vote were white male protestants of European descent who met certain land and/or property requirements. I'm sure there are some in this country who would like to return to that. :wiggle:

[loborugger]

Man i really curious what all the other indys think about obamas policy thus far do you trust the guy?

:TJnPopps:

[cutthemdown]

I got help from ACORN. I'm registered independent, democrat, and Republican.

[Rohirrim]

I got help from ACORN. I'm registered independent, democrat, and Republican.

That's actually kind of funny. :~ohyah!:

[cutthemdown]

That's actually kind of funny. :~ohyah!:

It is a good joke and can be used by any political affiliation.

Even you dems can use it at your save Roman Polanski orgy parties.

[peacepipe]

What I find funny is when someone who claims to be "independent" spews nothing but republican ideology. Anyone can claim to be "independent", but it's a persons stance on issues that determine their political ideology. I can say I'm a "independent"til the cows come home but the truth is my political stances are on the left. .

[Spider]

I am a hard ass ,ass kicking Democrat , I make no apologies for it ........... I dont like Reed or Pelosi , Not wild about barbra Boxer , but **** em ......
I do like nuclear energy , I am for clean coal, I like fossil fuels , but very pro union + People on the right are just flat out ****ing stupid .........
Indies are ok .i got no beef with them ........

[~Crash~]

I'm somewhere between a Libertarian and a Democrat these days. Which means I'll probably only vote for mostly Democrats the rest of my life seeing as how there is never any other options.

Damn you are one mixed up kitty cat...Hilarious!

[~Crash~]

I am a hard ass ,ass kicking Democrat , I make no apologies for it ........... I dont like Reed or Pelosi , Not wild about barbra Boxer , but **** em ......
I do like nuclear energy , I am for clean coal, I like fossil fuels , but very pro union + People on the right are just flat out ****ing stupid .........
Indies are ok .i got no beef with them ........

oh go move in a mud hut..:clown:

[Spider]

oh go move in a mud hut..:clown:

no .....for the last time I dont want to be your roomate

[snowspot66]

Damn you are one mixed up kitty cat...Hilarious!

Do I know you or was that just a really weird chance happening? Snowspot is a tag I've used for years and is from a couple different pet's names.

[Bronco Yoda]

I'm a registered Independent.

[Rohirrim]

It is a good joke and can be used by any political affiliation.

Even you dems can use it at your save Roman Polanski orgy parties.

Naw, you republicans have cornered the market on pedophilia. I'm surprised you're not standing up for ole Roman. Of course, you republicans prefer the boys, don't you?

[jhat01]

What I find funny is when someone who claims to be "independent" spews nothing but republican ideology. Anyone can claim to be "independent", but it's a persons stance on issues that determine their political ideology. I can say I'm a "independent"til the cows come home but the truth is my political stances are on the left. .

That's why labels piss me off. I'm for a strong military, I don't care who gets married, don't like abortion - but understand in some cases. Not huge on social programs, but the elderly need all the help they can get. Hate Big Oil, should have had electric cars in every driveway by now. Wouldn't oppose a few more nuclear plants. At first, I thought Iraq was warranted, but realized it was not. Don't know what we are doing in Afghanistan anymore. I don't care if they show tits on tv or violence, I'll steer my kids in the right direction. Pot should be legal, and drug offenses in this country should be re-evaluated. If kids want to pray in school, let them, if you don't like it don't do it. Don't wiretap my ****ing phone, get rid of illegals - but make the path to citizenship for the ones that have been here and obeyed the law easier. You can raise my taxes if it does some good - quit wasting our money.


Now what does that make me?

[Tombstone RJ]

That's why labels piss me off. I'm for a strong military, I don't care who gets married, don't like abortion - but understand in some cases. Not huge on social programs, but the elderly need all the help they can get. Hate Big Oil, should have had electric cars in every driveway by now. Wouldn't oppose a few more nuclear plants. At first, I thought Iraq was warranted, but realized it was not. Don't know what we are doing in Afghanistan anymore. I don't care if they show boobies on tv or violence, I'll steer my kids in the right direction. Pot should be legal, and drug offenses in this country should be re-evaluated. If kids want to pray in school, let them, if you don't like it don't do it. Don't wiretap my ****ing phone, get rid of illegals - but make the path to citizenship for the ones that have been here and obeyed the law easier. You can raise my taxes if it does some good - quit wasting our money.


Now what does that make me?


You sound like an Independent.

[Garcia Bronco]

That's why labels piss me off. I'm for a strong military, I don't care who gets married, don't like abortion - but understand in some cases. Not huge on social programs, but the elderly need all the help they can get. Hate Big Oil, should have had electric cars in every driveway by now. Wouldn't oppose a few more nuclear plants. At first, I thought Iraq was warranted, but realized it was not. Don't know what we are doing in Afghanistan anymore. I don't care if they show boobies on tv or violence, I'll steer my kids in the right direction. Pot should be legal, and drug offenses in this country should be re-evaluated. If kids want to pray in school, let them, if you don't like it don't do it. Don't wiretap my ****ing phone, get rid of illegals - but make the path to citizenship for the ones that have been here and obeyed the law easier. You can raise my taxes if it does some good - quit wasting our money.


Now what does that make me?

You are not alone.

[Garcia Bronco]

I'm a registered Independent.

As am I. I was called undecided once. I and politely informed them that I am decided.

[Bob]

I'm a registered Independent.

Curious if you have ever voted for someone other than D's?

[peacepipe]

That's why labels piss me off. I'm for a strong military, I don't care who gets married, don't like abortion - but understand in some cases. Not huge on social programs, but the elderly need all the help they can get. Hate Big Oil, should have had electric cars in every driveway by now. Wouldn't oppose a few more nuclear plants. At first, I thought Iraq was warranted, but realized it was not. Don't know what we are doing in Afghanistan anymore. I don't care if they show boobies on tv or violence, I'll steer my kids in the right direction. Pot should be legal, and drug offenses in this country should be re-evaluated. If kids want to pray in school, let them, if you don't like it don't do it. Don't wiretap my ****ing phone, get rid of illegals - but make the path to citizenship for the ones that have been here and obeyed the law easier. You can raise my taxes if it does some good - quit wasting our money.


Now what does that make me?Kids can pray in school,they just got to do it privately. Last thing we need is schools forceing prayer on our children.

[Rohirrim]

Curious if you have ever voted for someone other than D's?

I thought the right to vote was considered private?

Anyway, yes actually. For Colorado Attorney General in the last election I voted for the Republican, Suthers. The Dem candidate was woefully under-qualified. I've voted for lots of independents over the years. Can't even remember them all. The way Obama is going, I'm going independent again in the next election, depending on the closeness of the race and the Republican candidate.

A lot of times I feel I have been forced to vote for the Dem because the Republican candidates tend to be ideological fanatics who I consider truly dangerous, like Bush. The Republicans are only going further and further out on the fringe so it is pretty much impossible that I will ever vote for one again. People like Bachman, Palin, Boehner, and McConnell, with their scorched earth politics, are like a disease on the political body of America.

What I'd really like to see develop is a strong third party, just as long as it's not based on just another ideologically limited dogma. BTW, talking with you about this stuff is entirely academic. I can guarantee by your posts, you are a hard Right wing ideologue right down the line. Anybody who would give Glenn Beck any credence at all is politically dogmatic and, IMO, twisted.

[Bob]

I thought the right to vote was considered private?

Anyway, yes actually. For Colorado Attorney General in the last election I voted for the Republican, Suthers. The Dem candidate was woefully under-qualified. I've voted for lots of independents over the years. Can't even remember them all. The way Obama is going, I'm going independent again in the next election, depending on the closeness of the race and the Republican candidate.

A lot of times I feel I have been forced to vote for the Dem because the Republican candidates tend to be ideological fanatics who I consider truly dangerous, like Bush. The Republicans are only going further and further out on the fringe so it is pretty much impossible that I will ever vote for one again. People like Bachman, Palin, Boehner, and McConnell, with their scorched earth politics, are like a disease on the political body of America.

What I'd really like to see develop is a strong third party, just as long as it's not based on just another ideologically limited dogma. BTW, talking with you about this stuff is entirely academic. I can guarantee by your posts, you are a hard Right wing ideologue right down the line. Anybody who would give Glenn Beck any credence at all is politically dogmatic and, IMO, twisted.

Yet I can and do call out both parties. I have voted for Max B. everytime he has come up (over ten years for me) and for Brian Sweitzer a D governor here in Montana. I dont have a problem with many D's -- just ones who have slipped over into Michael Moore and Chevez territory (and that number to their discredit seems to be growing.) I have not changed much in terms of right and left, over the years, but others have -- including the R's by moving left toward bigger government. But I have changed in up and down thinking, about two years ago and I think Bush and now Obama were headed up the same scale of more intrusive government. If the JFK of 63 were alive today would he recognize many of the D's of this century? Im am not sure.

I will tell you one thing, and that is it will be the I's that can be honest regardless of leanings, that will save this county -- not the hard cor R's or D's.

[jhat01]

Kids can pray in school,they just got to do it privately. Last thing we need is schools forceing prayer on our children.

I'm not talking about forcing, I'm just not opposed to saying, for example, "the lord's prayer" before a game. I moved from CA to south Alabama when i was a sophmore in HS and our football and baseball coaches led the team in a prayer before every game. It was culture shock at first, but it didn't really bother me. I wouldn't have a problem with a prayer instead of the moment of silence either, those that don't want to pray can still have their moment of silence.

It's not a huge issue for me though, I don't have a problem with how they're doing it now, I just wouldn't have a problem with them doing it a little differently either.