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baja
09-29-2009, 11:51 AM
A case can be made that Shanny's fall from grace started when he drafted Cutler with a squad that just went to the AFCC. Lovie will be put under the microscope if Cutler struggles and the Bears miss the playoffs. I think Cutler is so over rated that he will take down a few HCs before everyone catches on that while a possessor of a great arm he is a loser between the ears.

jhat01
09-29-2009, 11:56 AM
Wow, you really can't get over yourself. How can you call this dude a coach killer at this point in his career? I hated how he left town as much as the next guy, but you are counting your eggs a little early. I'm not a Cutler fan, but aside from the first half of thefirst game, he's been nothing short of solid.

broncocalijohn
09-29-2009, 11:58 AM
you have too extreme choices there so I went the safe route and said no way. A coach needs to corral his QB like Shanny did with Plummer in 05 and the ints dropped dramatically. NOW, if a coach tries to do that with Cutler and he still thinks he is better than Elway and f ups the game plan, then he is in trouble. He doesnt have the Elway click and it would kill his team if he tried. If that does happen (Cutler getting hard headed) and we know he is capable of it, then he can ruin a coach. Hmm, now you know my problem with two choices. I could go both ways on that poll :)

baja
09-29-2009, 11:58 AM
Wow, you really can't get over yourself. How can you call this dude a coach killer at this point in his career? I hated how he left town as much as the next guy, but you are counting your eggs a little early. I'm not a Cutler fan, but aside from the first half of thefirst game, he's been nothing short of solid.

I'll take that as a "NO" than. ;D

baja
09-29-2009, 12:00 PM
you have too extreme choices there so I went the safe route and said no way. A coach needs to corral his QB like Shanny did with Plummer in 05 and the ints dropped dramatically. NOW, if a coach tries to do that with Cutler and he still thinks he is better than Elway and f ups the game plan, then he is in trouble. He doesnt have the Elway click and it would kill his team if he tried. If that does happen (Cutler getting hard headed) and we know he is capable of it, then he can ruin a coach. Hmm, now you know my problem with two choices. I could go both ways on that poll :)

I shoulda made it multiple choice. ;D

Taco John
09-29-2009, 12:00 PM
I think that even thinking the thought that Cutler killed Shanahan's coaching career is ignorant, let alone actually putting your body through the motions of actually posting it.

I mean... Seriously...

What!?

jhat01
09-29-2009, 12:01 PM
I'll take that as a "NO" than. ;D

Kind of..He may be a franchise qb, ask me after this season.

jhns
09-29-2009, 12:01 PM
A case can be made that Shanny's fall from grace started when he drafted Cutler with a squad that just went to the AFCC. Lovie will be put under the microscope if Cutler struggles and the Bears miss the playoffs. I think Cutler is so over rated that he will take down a few HCs before everyone catches on that while a possessor of a great arm he is a loser between the ears.

Young and inconsistent? Yes. Bad? No.

What makes you think he is bad? Was it the fact that he has two game winning drives and two game winning TDs in 3 games this year? Do you really think this is the first QB that is cocky and has an attitude problem? Do you really think that hurts their skill? I don't. Aikman even said so when asked about Cutler this offseason. Specifically, he said "Us QBs are a different breed".

I think cutler will be very good as they learn that the run game still exists even when you have a QB. They always have decent defenses and special teams. With the RB that they have, Cutler shouldn't be asked to carry that team, and he won't have to. That will make him successful.

BroncoBuff
09-29-2009, 12:02 PM
Choices are worded pretty narrowly, but he's definitely not a "coach killer."

Our defense the past tow years, now THERE'S a coach killer.

Taco John
09-29-2009, 12:02 PM
:clown:

Archer81
09-29-2009, 12:04 PM
I think the Bears are lucky to be 2-1. They are getting nothing from the ground game and Jay has 0 chemistry with his receivers.

:Broncos:

crush17
09-29-2009, 12:04 PM
The internet really needed this thread. Thanks!

TDmvp
09-29-2009, 12:05 PM
Considering some talking heads at Si , fox , and espn are saying he is having a MVP type year to have the Bears at 2-1 with as little weapons on O as they have makes this thread is stupid ...

Craw back in your mud hut and prep your end of the world kit and stop making stupid threads.

http://www.hegemonyofnorrath.org/albums/EQ-Screenshots/GAY_THREAD.jpg

baja
09-29-2009, 12:08 PM
I think that even thinking the thought that Cutler killed Shanahan's coaching career is ignorant, let alone actually putting your body through the motions of actually posting it.

I mean... Seriously...

What!?

Shanahan; Ya Pat all I need to get another Lombarti is a franchise QB, I know it looks like we are close and were one win away but the hell with the D we need a QB and besides the D was Coyer just give me Cutler and your check book and I'll bring you a winner.

Pat Bowlen aka (Gutless drunk); Well Mike I gave you Cutler, let you blow up the 05 team and gave you my check book and you lost the division with a 3 game lead and 3 games to go, what happened.

Shanahan;

Well we put it on Cutler and he had a couple of bad games but we'll get them next year we are really close now Pat, jay just needs another weapon.

baja
09-29-2009, 12:12 PM
Young and inconsistent? Yes. Bad? No.

What makes you think he is bad? Was it the fact that he has two game winning drives and two game winning TDs in 3 games this year? Do you really think this is the first QB that is cocky and has an attitude problem? Do you really think that hurts their skill? I don't. Aikman even said so when asked about Cutler this offseason. Specifically, he said "Us QBs are a different breed".

I think cutler will be very good as they learn that the run game still exists even when you have a QB. They always have decent defenses and special teams. With the RB that they have, Cutler shouldn't be asked to carry that team, and he won't have to. That will make him successful.

Hey all I did was make a poll STFU and vote or not.

baja
09-29-2009, 12:14 PM
Hey TJ if this is such a ridiculous question why are there 5 yes to 4 no.

I'd say that looks like a good poll in the making

jhns
09-29-2009, 12:15 PM
Shanahan; Ya Pat all I need to get another Lombarti is a franchise QB, I know it looks like we are close and were one win away but the hell with the D we need a QB and besides the D was Coyer just give me Cutler and your check book and I'll bring you a winner.

Pat Bowlen aka (Gutless drunk); Well Mike I gave you Cutler, let you blow up the 05 team and gave you my check book and you lost the division with a 3 game lead and 3 games to go, what happened.

Shanahan;

Well we put it on Cutler and he had a couple of bad games but we'll get them next year we are really close now Pat, jay just needs another weapon.

He just thought he needed a QB? What? You haven't folloed the Broncos long because he redid the entire offense. Last year, they were all rookie-3rd year players. The veteran defense was supposed to make the young offense ok but it fell apart the instant Wilson went down(along with a few other injuries). He also didn't try to replace anything on that offense until that offense proved it couldn't move the ball the year after the AFCCG. But hey, don't let the facts get in the way.

baja
09-29-2009, 12:15 PM
Considering some talking heads at Si , fox , and espn are saying he is having a MVP type year to have the Bears at 2-1 with as little weapons on O as they have makes this thread is stupid ...

Craw back in your mud hut and prep your end of the world kit and stop making stupid threads.

http://www.hegemonyofnorrath.org/albums/EQ-Screenshots/GAY_THREAD.jpg

My guess is that is your screen saver.

DBroncos4life
09-29-2009, 12:17 PM
This is what was wrong with the off-season. Outside of that first half of the first game Jay has done nothing to prove the people that was upset that Jay got traded wrong. Do you see any line up to eat your crow about Jay being a very good QB threads? No in fact they are still claiming Jay to be a bad QB. At this point in time they are getting more production out of the 5th round pick that we sent them then we are with the first round pick that we got from them.

If I was to say Jay would still have over 4000 yard passing and 30 plus TDs his first season with the Bears with a crappy OL and no real weapons at WR I would have been told to bend me over a rock and go be a Bears fan.

jhns
09-29-2009, 12:17 PM
Hey all I did was make a poll STFU and vote or not.

Don't cry. I just responded. If you can't take the response, don't post. Pretty simple.

TDmvp
09-29-2009, 12:19 PM
Shanahan; Ya Pat all I need to get another Lombarti is a franchise QB, I know it looks like we are close and were one win away but the hell with the D we need a QB and besides the D was Coyer just give me Cutler and your check book and I'll bring you a winner.

Pat Bowlen aka (Gutless drunk); Well Mike I gave you Cutler, let you blow up the 05 team and gave you my check book and you lost the division with a 3 game lead and 3 games to go, what happened.

Shanahan;

Well we put it on Cutler and he had a couple of bad games but we'll get them next year we are really close now Pat, jay just needs another weapon.




I personally think lead in the water has made Baja delusional ...
It's the only thing i can come up with that would make someone spend time posting dribble like that last post.

Could you act any more like a vagina ?
I mean get over it already Baja shhhheeezzzz...
Just like a chick tho , bish bish bish , wait a few weeks and and rehash the same $hit...

So going to start calling you Vag~a ...

TheReverend
09-29-2009, 12:19 PM
http://thelifestream.net/forums/images/smilies/1199834313745.jpg

baja
09-29-2009, 12:20 PM
He just thought he needed a QB? What? You haven't folloed the Broncos long because he redid the entire offense. Last year, they were all rookie-3rd year players. The veteran defense was supposed to make the young offense ok but it fell apart the instant Wilson went down(along with a few other injuries). He also didn't try to replace anything on that offense until that offense proved it couldn't move the ball the year after the AFCCG. But hey, don't let the facts get in the way.

OK lets say it another way for the obtuse;

Fix the defense in the draft and free agency after 05 and take a run. Plummer under Shanny's thumb was fine at the QB position. That team deserved a run. When Shanny drafted Cutler and blow the teamup that is when he lost the players.

tsiguy96
09-29-2009, 12:20 PM
Considering some talking heads at Si , fox , and espn are saying he is having a MVP type year to have the Bears at 2-1 with as little weapons on O as they have makes this thread is stupid ...

Craw back in your mud hut and prep your end of the world kit and stop making stupid threads.

[/IMG]


MVP year? he has like 8 turnovers in 3 games and is 2 missed FGs away from 0-3, how is that anything CLOSE to MVP year? especially with peyton and brees showing how REAL qbs play?

TheDave
09-29-2009, 12:23 PM
http://thelifestream.net/forums/images/smilies/1199834313745.jpg

No... Please don't.

jhns
09-29-2009, 12:24 PM
OK lets say it another way for the obtuse;

Fix the defense in the draft and free agency after 05 and take a run. Plummer under Shanny's thumb was fine at the QB position. That team deserved a run. When Shanny drafted Cutler and blow the teamup that is when he lost the players.

If the players were that soft, they weren't going to win anyways. Plummer falling apart because there is competition(pressure on him) is exactly why we redid the offense. Not real hard to understand.

mr007
09-29-2009, 12:27 PM
Baja you seriously need to look up the difference between "than" and "then."

jhat01
09-29-2009, 12:32 PM
OK lets say it another way for the obtuse;

Fix the defense in the draft and free agency after 05 and take a run. Plummer under Shanny's thumb was fine at the QB position. That team deserved a run. When Shanny drafted Cutler and blow the teamup that is when he lost the players.

OK and what does this have to do with Cutler being a coach killer? Stupid poll.

Taco John
09-29-2009, 12:32 PM
Guys! Guys!

Maybe Baja is right. Maybe Shanahan did get fired because of Cutler. Think about it.

Nah just kidding!

Taco John
09-29-2009, 12:33 PM
Baja is trolling for Cutler fans.

If you want to get into an argument about Cutler, this is apparently the new thread for it.

WolfpackGuy
09-29-2009, 12:36 PM
Cutler will be fine.

jhns
09-29-2009, 12:36 PM
Baja is trolling for Cutler fans.

If you want to get into an argument about Cutler, this is apparently the new thread for it.

Yeah, pretty much. The best part is he will be complaining in 30 minutes that no one can get over Cutler and everyone here is real negative, blah, blah, blah....

Still fun to take the bait.

baja
09-29-2009, 01:00 PM
I personally think lead in the water has made Baja delusional ...
It's the only thing i can come up with that would make someone spend time posting dribble like that last post.

Could you act any more like a vagina ?
I mean get over it already Baja shhhheeezzzz...
Just like a chick tho , bish bish bish , wait a few weeks and and rehash the same $hit...

So going to start calling you Vag~a ...

I know your retention sucks but if you check my past posts you will notice I was "over it" from day 1. But it is fun watching you react to a simple yes or no poll. Are you sure you understand who is the reactionary is here.

baja
09-29-2009, 01:07 PM
Guys! Guys!

Maybe Baja is right. Maybe Shanahan did get fired because of Cutler. Think about it.

Nah just kidding!

Yet the poll is 50% yes and 50% no.

BTW In time it will be generally accepted in the media that;

1. Cutler is a coach killer

2. Shanahan's drafting of Cutler and his FAIL to win the division with a 3 G lead with 3 to go will go down as Cutler's first HC victim.

OBF1
09-29-2009, 01:08 PM
Your polls are website killers

baja
09-29-2009, 01:08 PM
Baja you seriously need to look up the difference between "than" and "then."
OK I will and thanks than.

Williams
09-29-2009, 01:10 PM
Considering some talking heads at Si , fox , and espn are saying he is having a MVP type year to have the Bears at 2-1 with as little weapons on O as they have makes this thread is stupid ...

:spit:

I assume you're joking here... but if per chance you are serious, Orton's gotta be in the early running. Better QB rating than Cutler and 5 fewer INTs through three games. Orton for MVP?? Who would've thunk it?

To answer Baja, I dont know about coach-killer just yet. In the likely scenario Chicago fails to make the playoffs, I know Lovie will be on the hot seat before the "franchise."

baja
09-29-2009, 01:10 PM
Your polls are website killers

You mean because it is the most viewed thread on the main page right now or is there another reason???

baja
09-29-2009, 01:14 PM
Guys! Guys!

Maybe Baja is right. Maybe Shanahan did get fired because of Cutler. Think about it.

Nah just kidding!

You being colossally wrong on several occasions has not dampened you arrogance one bit, good job on the sticktoitness.

TheReverend
09-29-2009, 01:14 PM
You mean because it is the most viewed thread on the main page right now or is there another reason???

Everyone slows down to look at a car wreck too, doesn't make it good.

baja
09-29-2009, 01:17 PM
BTW TJ it's 12 Yes - 9 No

so maybe there are a few of the more astute posters that see through the Cutler hype and see him for what he is, a coach killer. Not to worry though you will come around to this reality in 6 months or so but in the end you always get it.

baja
09-29-2009, 01:18 PM
Everyone slows down to look at a car wreck too, doesn't make it good.

Hey Mr. 3 and 13 hows tricks. ;D

nickademus
09-29-2009, 01:19 PM
I think that this is the second situation for jay where he could have saved the existing coach but failed to do so. I fully expect the bears to miss the playoffs this year not only netting us a higher draft pick but causing lovvie to loose his job. Is it jays fault that lovvie has put all of his eggs into jays basket? I still dont think this is Jays fault but I voted yes because at the end of the season that will be his label.

baja
09-29-2009, 01:23 PM
This is what was wrong with the off-season. Outside of that first half of the first game Jay has done nothing to prove the people that was upset that Jay got traded wrong. Do you see any line up to eat your crow about Jay being a very good QB threads? No in fact they are still claiming Jay to be a bad QB. At this point in time they are getting more production out of the 5th round pick that we sent them then we are with the first round pick that we got from them.

If I was to say Jay would still have over 4000 yard passing and 30 plus TDs his first season with the Bears with a crappy OL and no real weapons at WR I would have been told to bend me over a rock and go be a Bears fan.

Do you really think Jay will come anywhere near those numbers?

TheReverend
09-29-2009, 01:26 PM
Hey Mr. 3 and 13 hows tricks. ;D

Good. I'm very pleased we pulled the win vs Cinci and that the Raiders look even less competitive than last year. KC 2x, Oakland again and Redskins look like another 3. I'll be finding out over the next few weeks if I need to sit down with a healthy plate of crow or not, but right now McD is looking great. No doubt he'd be looking better with Jay, but what can ya do?


Baja, let me do you a favor and save your shtty thread though:

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc156/trooper5010/Funny/37794e7cca04bdf924a9605a8de3c272d13.jpg

baja
09-29-2009, 01:31 PM
LOL

This is a legit thread it just doesn't seem like it yet.

Did you happen to catch Josh on the Rome show? This young man is going to be the best coach the Broncos have ever had Mark my words. I just 6 months ahead of everybody else.;D

jhns
09-29-2009, 01:36 PM
LOL

This is a legit thread it just doesn't seem like it yet.

Did you happen to catch Josh on the Rome show? This young man is going to be the best coach the Broncos have ever had Mark my words. I just 6 months ahead of everybody else.;D

I hope you are right because he needs at least 3 SBs to be the best. It will take a LOT longer than 6 months for that to happen though.

baja
09-29-2009, 01:40 PM
I hope you are right because he needs at least 3 SBs to be the best. It will take a LOT longer than 6 months for that to happen though.

What I see today most will see in 6 months from now but in your case it's a year at least.

We will be in the SB hunt this year that means we make the playoffs and have a good chance to win every game we are in. No more Indy type blow outs for the Broncos now that Josh McD is in town...

jhns
09-29-2009, 01:46 PM
What I see today most will see in 6 months from now but in your case it's a year at least.

We will be in the SB hunt this year that means we make the playoffs and have a good chance to win every game we are in. No more Indy type blow outs for the Broncos now that Josh McD is in town...

You see 3 SB victories from 3 games? You do know who we played right?

It will take the entire world at least 3 years to see that McDaniels is better than Shanahan. That is if he somehow wins the SB each of the next 3 years. You see, the difference here is Shanny has actually won 2 SBs while you want to crown McD after beating 3 crap teams.

It is no different than a lot here. Who cares if he actually does something? Crown his ass now!

baja
09-29-2009, 01:57 PM
You see 3 SB victories from 3 games? You do know who we played right?

It will take the entire world at least 3 years to see that McDaniels is better than Shanahan. That is if he somehow wins the SB each of the next 3 years. You see, the difference here is Shanny has actually won 2 SBs while you want to crown McD after beating 3 crap teams.

It is no different than a lot here. Who cares if he actually does something? Crown his ass now!

Call it an educated opinion. After studying Josh McD for months I have come to the conclusion that he will become the best coach the Broncos have ever had.

Hey save this post maybe I'm wrong and you can "remind" me.

BTW Me saying Josh will be the best coach the Broncos have ever had is no more a reach than those saying he was the worst hire and Bowlen must be a gutless drunk for doing it.

jhns
09-29-2009, 02:01 PM
Call it an educated opinion. After studying Josh McD for months I have come to the conclusion that he will become the best coach the Broncos have ever had.

Hey save this post maybe I'm wrong and you can "remind" me

Why on earth would I remember this conversation in even 2 weeks? I have no need to show people they are dumb. You will figure it out on your own one day.

I like that you can disrespect a legend just because you are in love with McD though. It shows you really love and respect this team and its history.

By the way, Shanahan also set a record for most wins in a 3 season span pretty early in his coaching career here. He won 2 SBs and has an outstanding coaching record. Like I siad before, we could only hope McD comes close to Shanahan.

There is no way you can say he is better untill he actually does something though. Making the playoffs this year is not enough, sorry. Shoot, even winning the SB this year wouldn't come close to what Shanahan has accomplished.

BroncoBuff
09-29-2009, 02:17 PM
Baja is trolling for Cutler fans.
I'll bite ... I'm a big Jay fan. In fact, Jay is my favorite non-Bronco, and probably will be for a long time.

Here's just a few reasons I like Jay and why he is a high-character guy:

In March 2005, the week before Jay was set to declare as an underclassman for the NFL draft, a Vanderbilt teammate was killed in an accident. He cancelled his plans to declare and stayed for his senior year. I daresay few if any of us would do the same.
During the 2007 season, he was of course hampered by a debilitating disease ... he lost 35 pounds in four months and was sleeping 12 hours a day. And yet, he never took himself out and soldiered on to an 88 QB rating, the same 88 he has put up at every juncture of his career.
No less than Champ Bailey compared Jay Cutler to himself. Said he was a leader, hated to see him go, and compared him to John Elway and Dan Marino. Despite the puzzling Jay-hater references to those as "vanilla" comments, they are not that. They are in fact the highest possible compliments. That says a lot.
He always favored the receivers from his draft class ... Scheff and BMarsh. Maybe not a smart football choice, but it does show a real sense of loyalty. (Probably the same kind of loyalty he thought he would get from Josh, and why he threw such a tantrum when his name came up in trade talks. I don't agree with Jay's nonsense there, he acted like a child. But I think the anger came largely from this very 'Band of Brothers' kind of comradery/loyalty).
At the 2009 Pro Bowl, despite the fact Jay received the 2nd most votes, he went to the coaches and voluntarily deferred the #2 spot to the more senior Kerry Collins (yes, I know Rivers should have been #2 and Jay #3 or no there at all, but that doesn't change what he did).


Kinda hard to argue with these, or argue with the fact there was a feeding frenzy to obtain his services when he hit the open market. But hey, whatever gets you through your day ....


THAT oughtta get this thread rolling ... !!

McMastermind
09-29-2009, 02:20 PM
No doubt he'd be looking better with Jay, but what can ya do?[/img]

Really??? Jay sh!t the bed in the opener by QB'ing for both teams. He currently is tied for 2nd most INT's with a rookie. And you have no doubt that Jay would've bought into McD's system and started throwing balls away instead of forcing them into coverage? None?

And by the way....how much "looking better" room is there for McD right now? Undefeated with a 15+ avg. MOV

And Baja...good poll.

It won't be all Jay's fault but the Bears are golfing in January and Lovie gets canned. Back to back firings of your head coach in years 3 and 4 of your QB career is not a good thing.

McMastermind
09-29-2009, 02:23 PM
By the way, Shanahan also set a record for most wins in a 3 season span pretty early in his coaching career here. He won 2 SBs and has an outstanding coaching record.



Last decade says hi.

tsiguy96
09-29-2009, 02:26 PM
but bronco fans are a 6 and chicago fans a 9....

jhns
09-29-2009, 02:31 PM
Last decade says hi.

He still has a better record in the last decade than the majority of coaches. Why do you think he is the first coach talked about with everyone that may need a coach.

Also, are you saying his SBs mean nothing because of the past decade(which weren't that bad, playoffs the majority of the time until the last 3 years)? You are agreeing that one ok season from mcdaniels makes him the best coach top ever be here?

I don't question fans often but you guys are not Bronco fans. You are mcdaniel fans. Such disrepect for this organization. What a joke.

BroncoBuff
09-29-2009, 02:32 PM
but bronco fans are a 6 and chicago fans a 9....

Smart thing to say coming into a new city.

Maybe you missed that angle ... ???

jhns
09-29-2009, 02:36 PM
I'll bite ... I'm a big Jay fan. In fact, Jay is my favorite non-Bronco, and probably will be for a long time.

Here's just a few reasons I like Jay and why he is a high-character guy:

In March 2005, the week before Jay was set to declare as an underclassman for the NFL draft, a Vanderbilt teammate was killed in an accident. He cancelled his plans to declare and stayed for his senior year. I daresay few if any of us would do the same.
During the 2007 season, he was of course hampered by a debilitating disease ... he lost 35 pounds in four months and was sleeping 12 hours a day. And yet, he never took himself out and soldiered on to an 88 QB rating, the same 88 he has put up at every juncture of his career.
No less than Champ Bailey compared Jay Cutler to himself. Said he was a leader, hated to see him go, and compared him to John Elway and Dan Marino. Despite the puzzling Jay-hater references to those as "vanilla" comments, they are not that. They are in fact the highest possible compliments. That says a lot.
He always favored the receivers from his draft class ... Scheff and BMarsh. Maybe not a smart football choice, but it does show a real sense of loyalty. (Probably the same kind of loyalty he thought he would get from Josh, and why he threw such a tantrum when his name came up in trade talks. I don't agree with Jay's nonsense there, he acted like a child. But I think the anger came largely from this very 'Band of Brothers' kind of comradery/loyalty).
At the 2009 Pro Bowl, despite the fact Jay received the 2nd most votes, he went to the coaches and voluntarily deferred the #2 spot to the more senior Kerry Collins (yes, I know Rivers should have been #2 and Jay #3 or no there at all, but that doesn't change what he did).


Kinda hard to argue with these, or argue with the fact there was a feeding frenzy to obtain his services when he hit the open market. But hey, whatever gets you through your day ....


THAT oughtta get this thread rolling ... !!

- He also took his receivers to Atlanta all of one offseason and spent this offseason here. The guy didn't take breaks from working for this team.

- He also was enough of a team player that he constantly ran downfield to lay out blocks for guys. He did this more than most QBs I have seen.

This is fun, we could go on all day.

jhns
09-29-2009, 02:37 PM
but bronco fans are a 6 and chicago fans a 9....

Read this forum. That is not a false statement. Shoot, people here are even dogging the only coach to win this team some SBs. If you can't respect the legends, how can you call the fanbase a good one?

BroncoBuff
09-29-2009, 02:39 PM
- He also took his receivers to Atlanta all of one offseason and spent this offseason here. The guy didn't take breaks from working for this team.

- He also was enough of a team player that he constantly ran downfield to lay out blocks for guys. He did this more than most QBs I have seen.

This is fun, we could go on all day.

Couple excellent points ... he is a great blocker.

And he went to Atl with his boys while he was suffering.

On a side note, and I've asked this before, but if I lost 35 pounds in 4 months and was sleeping 12 hours a day, I would be scared shiite-less, I'd be running to the doctor ...!

baja
09-29-2009, 02:44 PM
I'll bite ... I'm a big Jay fan. In fact, Jay is my favorite non-Bronco, and probably will be for a long time.

Here's just a few reasons I like Jay and why he is a high-character guy:

In March 2005, the week before Jay was set to declare as an underclassman for the NFL draft, a Vanderbilt teammate was killed in an accident. He cancelled his plans to declare and stayed for his senior year. I daresay few if any of us would do the same.
During the 2007 season, he was of course hampered by a debilitating disease ... he lost 35 pounds in four months and was sleeping 12 hours a day. And yet, he never took himself out and soldiered on to an 88 QB rating, the same 88 he has put up at every juncture of his career.
No less than Champ Bailey compared Jay Cutler to himself. Said he was a leader, hated to see him go, and compared him to John Elway and Dan Marino. Despite the puzzling Jay-hater references to those as "vanilla" comments, they are not that. They are in fact the highest possible compliments. That says a lot.
He always favored the receivers from his draft class ... Scheff and BMarsh. Maybe not a smart football choice, but it does show a real sense of loyalty. (Probably the same kind of loyalty he thought he would get from Josh, and why he threw such a tantrum when his name came up in trade talks. I don't agree with Jay's nonsense there, he acted like a child. But I think the anger came largely from this very 'Band of Brothers' kind of comradery/loyalty).
At the 2009 Pro Bowl, despite the fact Jay received the 2nd most votes, he went to the coaches and voluntarily deferred the #2 spot to the more senior Kerry Collins (yes, I know Rivers should have been #2 and Jay #3 or no there at all, but that doesn't change what he did).


Kinda hard to argue with these, or argue with the fact there was a feeding frenzy to obtain his services when he hit the open market. But hey, whatever gets you through your day ....


THAT oughtta get this thread rolling ... !!

Those are all "nice guy' points Buff no doubt but he still makes bad decisions on the field and flashes "Looser" mentality when the game is on the line. Had jay, as a franchise QB that many are endowing him, put the team on his shoulders as franchise QBs do and won just one of three games we would be having none of these conversations and Mike Shanahan would still be the head coach of the Denver Broncos so you see Jay is in fact a coach killer just ask Mike.;D

Pick Six
09-29-2009, 02:45 PM
Read this forum. That is not a false statement. Shoot, people here are even dogging the only coach to win this team some SBs. If you can't respect the legends, how can you call the fanbase a good one?

I don't think anybody is dogging Shananan's past accomplishments. However, it's just that...the past. Missing the playoffs 3 straight years is unexcusable (especially in the weak AFC West).

baja
09-29-2009, 02:49 PM
He still has a better record in the last decade than the majority of coaches. Why do you think he is the first coach talked about with everyone that may need a coach.

Also, are you saying his SBs mean nothing because of the past decade(which weren't that bad, playoffs the majority of the time until the last 3 years)? You are agreeing that one ok season from mcdaniels makes him the best coach top ever be here?

I don't question fans often but you guys are not Bronco fans. You are mcdaniel fans. Such disrepect for this organization. What a joke.

I occasionally thought it would be nice to be 18 again but now that I am reminded of how 18 year olds see their world I'll stay where I am. ;D

fdf
09-29-2009, 02:49 PM
OK lets say it another way for the obtuse;

Fix the defense in the draft and free agency after 05 and take a run. Plummer under Shanny's thumb was fine at the QB position. That team deserved a run. When Shanny drafted Cutler and blow the teamup that is when he lost the players.

I can't say I agree. Plummer was done as a winning QB after 2005. Pitt showed everyone that he could not throw from the pocket and all you had to do was contain the bootleg, where he was frequently very effective. As soon as the formula was known, Denver's O froze up. Shanahan had no answer for that.

IMHO, it was only when Plummer would go. Not whether. Cutler was a bit player in that drama. If it hadn't been Cutler, it would have been someone else, eventually.

It had to be the defense. Every year, Shanahan seemed to think we were only a player or two and a DC away. So he would patch those holes. It would cost a lot of money and the D would still be mediocre at best over an entire season. Then, when Al Wilson went down, the guy holding together what there was of a D was gone and the bottom fell out.

I really think Shanahan had no idea how or where to start fixing the D. That became painfully obvious last year. It was obvious to his boss, too.

jhns
09-29-2009, 02:52 PM
I don't think anybody is dogging Shananan's past accomplishments. However, it's just that...the past. Missing the playoffs 3 straight years is unexcusable (especially in the weak AFC West).

I never argued he didn't need to be fired. I stated he is the best coach to ever be here and that point has been disputed multiple times. The past 3 years do not erase what Shanahan did for this team.

baja
09-29-2009, 02:52 PM
- He also took his receivers to Atlanta all of one offseason and spent this offseason here. The guy didn't take breaks from working for this team.

- He also was enough of a team player that he constantly ran downfield to lay out blocks for guys. He did this more than most QBs I have seen.

This is fun, we could go on all day.

Hey Buff you've found a home room buddy.

oubronco
09-29-2009, 02:53 PM
Those are all "nice guy' points Buff no doubt but he still makes bad decisions on the field and flashes "Looser" mentality when the game is on the line. Had jay, as a franchise QB that many are endowing him, put the team on his shoulders as franchise QBs do and won just one of three games we would be having none of these conversations and Mike Shanahan would still be the head coach of the Denver Broncos so you see Jay is in fact a coach killer just ask Mike.;D

I suppose the god awful defense had nothing to do with this statement

baja
09-29-2009, 02:55 PM
It's 17 to 17

Three smart guys voted no. Who are they?

DBroncos4life
09-29-2009, 02:56 PM
Do you really think Jay will come anywhere near those numbers?

Yes, yes I do. That's what he is on pace for. Keep on thinking Cutler isn't a good QB. With a junk OL and a DB acting like his number one WR he still is putting up the numbers he was here, all while our two awesome WRs are struggling to get the football in there hands.

jhns
09-29-2009, 02:57 PM
I occasionally thought it would be nice to be 18 again but now that I am reminded of how 18 year olds see their world I'll stay where I am. ;D

Yeah, I can see you got dumb with your old age and it probably is like a giant dose of extasy all the time. I wouldn't want to return to reality either.

baja
09-29-2009, 03:00 PM
I suppose the god awful defense had nothing to do with this statement

Did you happen to catch the Buffalo game at home, that was on Jay.

As was the SF game the year before that knocked us out of the playoffs. Remember we are talking a franchise QB here they are supposed to pull out a win once and a while when the team really needs one, he has never done that. Not when it was an absolutely must win and he has had many opportunities

McMastermind
09-29-2009, 03:00 PM
He still has a better record in the last decade than the majority of coaches.
Good for him...He is no longer the coach of the Denver Broncos so I could care less.


Why do you think he is the first coach talked about with everyone that may need a coach.

A) Because someone will recognize that he may be a good fit to get a team that is almost there over the hump. He's a good near term investment for the right team. (Chargers, 9ers, GB, etc.)

or

B) Some dipsh*t owner with more money then brains will overpay him b/c he is perceived to be the "prized FA". (Wash, Dallas)

Also, are you saying his SBs mean nothing because of the past decade(which weren't that bad, playoffs the majority of the time until the last 3 years)?

No. I am not saying that. I loved Mike Shanahan as a coach during the 90's and will be forever thankful that he helped my favorite team win B2B SB's and eliminated much of the stigma the Broncos endured b/c of 80's SB efforts.

You are agreeing that one ok season from mcdaniels makes him the best coach top ever be here?

Not sure where you got that idea from. I am glad that Shanny is gone and McD is here.

I don't question fans often but you guys are not Bronco fans. You are mcdaniel fans. Such disrepect for this organization. What a joke.

I am a Bronco fan and a McD fan....and a Bowlen fan and an Orton fan. I love the direction this team is headed. That is disrespectful toward the organization?



You're a trip dude. I can see why many people have you on ignore.

baja
09-29-2009, 03:03 PM
Yeah, I can see you got dumb with your old age and it probably is like a giant dose of ecstasy all the time. I wouldn't want to return to reality either.

I have yet to see you grasp a simple thought posted here, you always misinterpret the point so you're right I am in a different reality that you.

jhns
09-29-2009, 03:06 PM
You're a trip dude. I can see why many people have you on ignore.

The only thing the post you quoted was saying is that Shanahan is the best coach the broncos have ever had. You disputed that post but you were agreeing with me? Riiiiight.....

I never said shanahan didn't need fired. That is a completely different argument. I'm not sure why that is what you and the other guy are going on about.

DBroncos4life
09-29-2009, 03:08 PM
So Baja it is your belief that the Bears would have kept Lovie Smith for another year if they should not make the playoffs right? And the only reason he will be fired if they don't make the playoffs is because of Cutler, or do you just believe that Lovie Smith is going to be fired no matter what even if they make the playoffs?

Rohirrim
09-29-2009, 03:08 PM
Jay has a great arm.

baja
09-29-2009, 03:17 PM
So Baja it is your belief that the Bears would have kept Lovie Smith for another year if they should not make the playoffs right? And the only reason he will be fired if they don't make the playoffs is because of Cutler, or do you just believe that Lovie Smith is going to be fired no matter what even if they make the playoffs?

That's a fair question and one that impossible to answer. I think there will be a higher level of expatiation that Lovie win now that they have given him a franchise QB. It is the expatiations that come with acquiring of a franchise QB that puts the coach under the gun to produce, thus the thread. It will be two or three more coaches killed before it becomes evident that the problem is Cutler is not a franchise QB, but in fact he is a looser with a great arm.

oubronco
09-29-2009, 03:17 PM
Did you happen to catch the Buffalo game at home, that was on Jay.

As was the SF game the year before that knocked us out of the playoffs. Remember we are talking a franchise QB here they are supposed to pull out a win once and a while when the team really needs one, he has never done that. Not when it was an absolutely must win and he has had many opportunities

I was just refering to the comment that Jay lost those 3 games the last time I checked it took 53 players to make a team

BroncoBuff
09-29-2009, 03:19 PM
Those are all "nice guy' points Buff no doubt but he still makes bad decisions on the field and flashes "Looser" mentality when the game is on the line. Had jay, as a franchise QB that many are endowing him, put the team on his shoulders as franchise QBs do and won just one of three games we would be having none of these conversations and Mike Shanahan would still be the head coach of the Denver Broncos so you see Jay is in fact a coach killer just ask Mike.;D

Well, one could argue only Jay Cutler could pull an 8-8 season out of his hat with the worst defense in the league and 7 running backs on IR. I wouldn't go that far, but blaming Jay for last season would be massively myopic.


Jay has a great arm.
That's it? I don't think so ...

Here's a few interesting facts we haven't talked all that much about:

in 2008, Broncos had 44 starts from rookies - 2nd only to Kansas City. The Steelers had only one start by a rookie all season.
Cutler guided the second-ranked offense in the NFL.
Cutler was No. 3 in the NFL in third-down efficiency, the "money" down, converting 47.8%. NFL average was just 39.5 percent.
Cutler had just two 100-yard rushing days from a running back all season, and seven of his running backs were placed on IR.
Only David Garrard threw more passes in the fourth quarter than Cutler. In 4th quarters, Cutler completed 100 of 167 passes for an astounding 1,212 yards and 11 touchdowns to just four interceptions.
(Pat Kirwan)

So like I said all along, Jay was a stud on 3rd downs and in 4th quarters. That's a heckuva lot more than just a "great arm."

Jay would've hated Josh's offense, though ... that we can agree on. And Kyle Orton looks like an entirely different quarterback in regular season than he did in preseason (thank heavens) ... and with Ayers and Alphonso playing well, both teams probably won that trade.

But win or lose, I don't see why people have to trash Jay to feel better about themselves? ???

sisterhellfyre
09-29-2009, 03:23 PM
Jay has a great arm.

Talk about damning him with faint praise. [LOL] That's right up there with "she has a great personality."

But honestly, that's about how I see Jay at this stage of his career too: Jeff George with a pout instead of a temper.

Good luck, Lovie: you're gonna need it.

DBroncos4life
09-29-2009, 03:26 PM
That's a fair question and one that impossible to answer. I think there will be a higher level of expatiation that Lovie win now that they have given him a franchise QB. It is the expatiations that come with acquiring of a franchise QB that puts the coach under the gun to produce, thus the thread. It will be two or three more coaches killed before it becomes evident that the problem is Cutler that is not a franchise QB, but in fact he is a looser with a great arm.

I think most coaches that miss the playoffs three years in a row would be fired regardless of QB and new found expectations from him. Even more so with so many experienced coaches out there with SB wins. So to be fair I think you are just trying to pin the blame on Cutler. If our owner is willing to fire our HOF caliber HC that happens to be one of his best friends in the world because he has failed to take us to the playoffs for three straight NFL seasons, then Lovie Smith is as good as gone regardless if he had Elway, Montana, Orton or Cutler. Its about getting the job done or lack there of. Cutler is just someone you feel the need to make a out to be the bad guy because he is no longer in Denver. I guess that makes some fans feel cool.

baja
09-29-2009, 03:30 PM
I was just referring to the comment that Jay lost those 3 games the last time I checked it took 53 players to make a team

John Elway was a franchise QB because he carried his team to a win when any non franchise QB would have just shared in the lose with the rest of the team that is the difference, the Elways find a way to win and that is why franchise QB are worth so much. Jay Cutler has done nothing to show he is anywhere near a franchise QB except he throws a pretty ball. In fact if you can get past the pretty ball you will see a looser in number 6. That is why he will always be a coach killer or at least until he gets pegged as a looser.

Orange_Beard
09-29-2009, 03:31 PM
A case can be made that Cutler killed kittens as a Child. Kittens in Santa Claus Indiana disappeared at an alarming rate when young Mister Culter lived there.
If Cultler kills Lovie, he will be put under the microscope.

I think Cutler is so a killer that he will take down a few HCs before everyone catches on that while a possessor of a great arm he is a cold blooded killer at heart.

jhns
09-29-2009, 03:36 PM
I think cutler needs to watch out for serial killers. If it turns out one of these obsessed guys like baja are also killers, Jay is done for.

baja
09-29-2009, 03:39 PM
Well, one could argue only Jay Cutler could pull an 8-8 season out of his hat with the worst defense in the league and 7 running backs on IR. I wouldn't go that far, but blaming Jay for last season would be massively myopic.



That's it? I don't think so ...

Here's a few interesting facts we haven't talked all that much about:

in 2008, Broncos had 44 starts from rookies - 2nd only to Kansas City. The Steelers had only one start by a rookie all season.
Cutler guided the second-ranked offense in the NFL.
Cutler was No. 3 in the NFL in third-down efficiency, the "money" down, converting 47.8%. NFL average was just 39.5 percent.
Cutler had just two 100-yard rushing days from a running back all season, and seven of his running backs were placed on IR.
Only David Garrard threw more passes in the fourth quarter than Cutler. In 4th quarters, Cutler completed 100 of 167 passes for an astounding 1,212 yards and 11 touchdowns to just four interceptions.
(Pat Kirwan)

So like I said all along, Jay was a stud on 3rd downs and in 4th quarters. That's a heckuva lot more than just a "great arm."

Jay would've hated Josh's offense, though ... that we can agree on. And Kyle Orton looks like an entirely different quarterback in regular season than he did in preseason (thank heavens) ... and with Ayers and Alphonso playing well, both teams probably won that trade.

<b.But win or lose, I don't see why people have to trash Jay to feel better about themselves? ???

Not trashing Jay to feel better, I'm trashing him because I think he is a highly over rated impostor posing as a franchise QB when the truth is he has much to learn, but will his ego allow him to recognize that or will he have a career or forcing the ball and giving up the turn over. Unless this kid wakes up and accepts some coaching he will never be the QB you think he is and he will cause HCs to be fired.

DBroncos4life
09-29-2009, 03:41 PM
I think cutler needs to watch out for serial killers. If it turns out one of these obsessed guys like baja are also killers, Jay is done for.

That gives me a great idea for Baja and halloween. He should dress up like Culter and walk around with two manikin heads on his belt that look like Shanahan and Lovie Smith.

Killericon
09-29-2009, 03:41 PM
I heard a rumour that Jay Cutler raped a murdered a girl. I'm not saying it's true or anything, but he's made no denial.

Makes you wonder... (http://glennbeckrapedandmurderedayounggirlin1990.com/)

jhns
09-29-2009, 03:43 PM
Not trashing Jay to feel better, I'm trashing him because I think he is a highly over rated impostor posing as a franchise QB when the truth is he has much to learn, but will his ego allow him to recognize that or will he have a career or forcing the ball and giving up the turn over. Unless this kid wakes up and accepts some coaching he will never be the QB you think he is and he will cause HCs to be fired.

You are trying far to hard to cinvince yourself. It is pretty obvious you don't even believe what you say.

BroncoBuff
09-29-2009, 03:45 PM
Not trashing Jay to feel better, I'm trashing him because I think he is a highly over rated impostor posing as a franchise QB when the truth is he has much to learn, but will his ego allow him to recognize that or will he have a career or forcing the ball and giving up the turn over. Unless this kid wakes up and accepts some coaching he will never be the QB you think he is and he will cause HCs to be fired.
You're in a tiny minority there ... not on this board, which understandably is filled with over-rationalizing Cutler haters such as yourself (::)), but rather with football professionals, coaches, GMs, commentators and Champ Bailey. There's a reasons why there was a feeding frenzy for Jay when he hit the open market, and there's a reason why we got two 1st round picks and a starting QB in return for him. It's because he's a stud. No amount of anybody's hate can change that.

You might be proven correct about Jay eventually, it's certainly possible ... only time will tell.

But #3 in the NFL on 3rd down conversions last year? 1200 yards and 11-4 TD to Int ratios in 4th quarters?! Those numbers are clutch ...

I'll say this much: I watched Broncos and Seahawks games side by side Sunday at the bar. And without Cutler, the Bears lose that game, no doubt about it.

tsiguy96
09-29-2009, 04:08 PM
Buff if champ believed in cutler that much he would defend him on national radio and not Chicago radio don't you think? It's crazy I have to ask you that every time. And if any other qb was playing Seattle they would have never gotten down To the point of needing a comeback. Good try though

Rabb
09-29-2009, 04:30 PM
what does Champ's publicly stated opinion about Cutler have **** to do with anything?

baja
09-29-2009, 04:35 PM
You are trying far to hard to convince yourself. It is pretty obvious you don't even believe what you say.

Now that is a great argument, almost as good as the one the Catholic church pulled off and thats some elite territory you're in there. To you (a bunch of words that magically appear on my screen) it's obvious that "I don't believe what I am saying", that is gosh darn cleaver dude. ;D

baja
09-29-2009, 04:39 PM
Is that like George Bush looking into Putin's eyes and seeing his soul?

Archer81
09-29-2009, 04:42 PM
You're in a tiny minority there ... not on this board, which understandably is filled with over-rationalizing Cutler haters such as yourself (::)), but rather with football professionals, coaches, GMs, commentators and Champ Bailey. There's a reasons why there was a feeding frenzy for Jay when he hit the open market, and there's a reason why we got two 1st round picks and a starting QB in return for him. It's because he's a stud. No amount of anybody's hate can change that.

You might be proven correct about Jay eventually, it's certainly possible ... only time will tell.

But #3 in the NFL on 3rd down conversions last year? 1200 yards and 11-4 TD to Int ratios in 4th quarters?! Those numbers are clutch ...

I'll say this much: I watched Broncos and Seahawks games side by side Sunday at the bar. And without Cutler, the Bears lose that game, no doubt about it.


Jay had a 74% rating in the redzone, he would turn it over in bunches and would pout, which adversly affected his game. These would still be true if he was in Denver this season and not Chicago. He has alot of work to do to be a franchise QB.

:Broncos:

ScottXray
09-29-2009, 04:48 PM
MVP year? he has like 8 turnovers in 3 games and is 2 missed FGs away from 0-3, how is that anything CLOSE to MVP year? especially with peyton and brees showing how REAL qbs play?

I thiink he has 7 turnovers and 8 TDs , but I get your point... He still is turning the ball over regularly. To his credit he comes back in every game and shakes it off. But his TOs are the reason he has to come back in the first place.

Still showing the same tendencies he had here.....Big arm, but balanced by some bad choices and plays.

missing field goals is part of the game, but he has been lucky thats happened so far.

Franchise year....no.

As for the polll... didn't vote as the choices are too either/or..... I think he falls somewhere in the middle......He CAN kill a coach, but the coach has to be on the hot seat to begin with. Any QB can do that.

Wonder what he is going to ask for in contract negotiations this off season...
100,or 150 million over 7 years?

BWAAAHAHAAA!

hambone13
09-29-2009, 04:53 PM
I thiink he has 7 turnovers and 8 TDs , but I get your point... He still is turning the ball over regularly. To his credit he comes back in every game and shakes it off. But his TOs are the reason he has to come back in the first place.

Still showing the same tendencies he had here.....Big arm, but balanced by some bad choices and plays.

missing field goals is part of the game, but he has been lucky thats happened so far.

Franchise year....no.

As for the polll... didn't vote as the choices are too either/or..... I think he falls somewhere in the middle......He CAN kill a coach, but the coach has to be on the hot seat to begin with. Any QB can do that.

Wonder what he is going to ask for in contract negotiations this off season...
100,or 150 million over 7 years?

BWAAAHAHAAA!

Bottom Line....I'd still rather have Cutler than Orton despite how happy I am about the 3-0 start...

maher_tyler
09-29-2009, 04:53 PM
The Bears are a few field goals from being 0-3...but you can't put that squarely on Cutlers shoulders. Cutler will be a starter in this league for a long time whether any of us like it or not..best thing you can do is move on and hope that when we play them in a real game, we take it to him!!

colonelbeef
09-29-2009, 04:54 PM
Hey TJ if this is such a ridiculous question why are there 5 yes to 4 no.

I'd say that looks like a good poll in the making

Because this is a Broncos board full of Broncos homers.

Ask any analyst paid to scout for a living, Phil Simms, Troy Aikman, Ron Jaworski, Steve Mariucci, Mike Mayock, or anyone laying odds in Vegas what they think of Cutler.

Or you can go with Popps. I'll take Phil Simms.

Rabb
09-29-2009, 04:57 PM
actually after watching Orton play turnover-free football so far, I can see why McD wasn't that thrilled with Jay

he wants a guy that doesn't put them in unnecessary positions to lose

it is very clear McD wants guys that put the whole team in the best position possible, not the flashy guys everyone thinks you need to win

2KBack
09-29-2009, 05:14 PM
Cutler is a good QB, not great, but I won't say he's bad. I don't like they guy, never have. He's not a coach killer, but the fact remains I don't think he is anything special. Looking back to the 2nd Oakland game last season (where Denver's season really took a dive) Cutler has thrown 12 TD's to 12 interceptions. Not awful, but certainly not elite.

baja
09-29-2009, 05:19 PM
Because this is a Broncos board full of Broncos homers.

Ask any analyst paid to scout for a living, Phil Simms, Troy Aikman, Ron Jaworski, Steve Mariucci, Mike Mayock, or anyone laying odds in Vegas what they think of Cutler.

Or you can go with Popps. I'll take Phil Simms.

They fail to see the intangibles with Jay they are blinded by the big arm, it happens even to the experts. What they are missing is he has the mind set of a loser and it will become clear to everyone over time. JMO

Perhaps it is easier to show what a loser mind set is by giving an example of a winning mind set, guys like Montana, not all world put flat out won games for his team. Elway did that too. Think about those players and what the brought to their teams, Cutler is not close to that "It"

baja
09-29-2009, 05:24 PM
Very interesting 54% of thee voters think Jay Cutler is a coach killer.

McMastermind
09-29-2009, 05:36 PM
Because this is a Broncos board full of Broncos homers.

Ask any analyst paid to scout for a living, Phil Simms, Troy Aikman, Ron Jaworski, Steve Mariucci, Mike Mayock, or anyone laying odds in Vegas what they think of Cutler.

Or you can go with Popps. I'll take Phil Simms.

Funny you bring that up.....Cutler's ATS record is even worse than his real one.
12-28 I believe. And what makes that number look even worse still....You can throw out all of your BS about it being "the defense's fault". Denver's horrible defense was factored into the making of every single one of those spreads. And yet your hero was 4-12 vs. the number LY.

If you want to put stock into what a bunch of dummy ex-jocks tell you on the TV...fine.

But don't lump in the know handicappers into that mix. They know exactly what Cutler is all about. He's a 'name' player that the general pupblic overrates when handicapping the team he plays for. Considering that even most sharps consider a 55%+ angle to be very rare. Fading Cutler led teams is a virtual goldmine to date. 70% is HUGE!!!!

DBroncos4life
09-29-2009, 05:37 PM
Very interesting 54% of thee voters think Jay Cutler is a coach killer.

I think its more along the lines that people don't think he is a franchise QB. Why don't you start a poll and ask people do they believe that Cutler was the reason Shanahan got fired or if his lack of producing playoff victories is the reason. I mean for the love of god Lovie Smith hasn't been fired so this is ****ing retarded. The Bears are 2-1 Hilarious!

baja
09-29-2009, 05:43 PM
I think its more along the lines that people don't think he is a franchise QB. Why don't you start a poll and ask people do they believe that Cutler was the reason Shanahan got fired or if his lack of producing playoff victories is the reason. I mean for the love of god Lovie Smith hasn't been fired so this is ****ing retarded. The Bears are 2-1 Hilarious!

You know you got 15,000 posts and I don't even know who the hell you are. Weird!

DBroncos4life
09-29-2009, 05:55 PM
You know you got 15,000 posts and I don't even know who the hell you are. Weird!

Damn there goes my life. LOL

Do you not understand that you worded this poll to get the answer you wanted? I mean anyone can word a poll like would you ever stop being a Broncos fan Yes/No? Would you ever stop being a Broncos fan? Yes because the person asking the question has a gun to someone from my families head/No **** em I love the Broncos more. I bet you would find that more people would answer yes to the second choice given how the Fing question was worded.

baja
09-29-2009, 06:00 PM
Damn there goes my life. LOL

Do you not understand that you worded this poll to get the answer you wanted? I mean anyone can word a poll like would you ever stop being a Broncos fan Yes/No? Would you ever stop being a Broncos fan? Yes because the person asking the question has a gun to someone from my families head/No **** em I love the Broncos more. I bet you would find that more people would answer yes to the second choice given how the Fing question was worded.

I honestly have no fuucking idea what you just said.

DBroncos4life
09-29-2009, 06:01 PM
I honestly have no fuuuning idea what you just said.

I'm not surprised.

baja
09-29-2009, 06:06 PM
I'm not surprised.

Dude I get you think I slanted the poll to get an "Yes" it's you explanation of how that actually works that doesn't make it.

Either you think Jay is a coach killer and vote yes or you think jay is a up and coming franchise qb and you vote for that selection. Anything in between either don't vote or pick the one that comes the closest to the way you feel. What you are saying is your board mates are easily lead around. I don't happen to think so.

elsid13
09-29-2009, 06:09 PM
- He also took his receivers to Atlanta all of one offseason and spent this offseason here. The guy didn't take breaks from working for this team.

- He also was enough of a team player that he constantly ran downfield to lay out blocks for guys. He did this more than most QBs I have seen.

This is fun, we could go on all day.

Also reported in ESPN Mag, that he and Marshall went to his house every Tuesday night to breakdown the previous game to identify each other mistake and figure out what they could do better.

Reported by the DenverPost, Cutler followed the Mannings around all week at the Pro Bowl to learn how to be better leader

Flew over on his own dime to the Pro-bowl, Royal, Scheffer and Clady. Plus the Assistant team PR guy that helped with his charity.

elsid13
09-29-2009, 06:11 PM
Did you happen to catch the Buffalo game at home, that was on Jay.

As was the SF game the year before that knocked us out of the playoffs. Remember we are talking a franchise QB here they are supposed to pull out a win once and a while when the team really needs one, he has never done that. Not when it was an absolutely must win and he has had many opportunities

You have lost it. Cutler lead Denver to TD to force overtime after a concussion. Plummer on the other head **** himself when he chance to lead the team to a victory.

BroncoBuff
09-29-2009, 06:17 PM
Jay had a 74% rating in the redzone, he would turn it over in bunches and would pout, which adversly affected his game.
I disagree he turned it over 'in bunches,' I suppose if you have some numbers I'll look. And I don't see how 'pouting' matters much, Elway was a huge pouter early in his career.

According to those numbers I posted from Kirwan, Jay was a clutch QB on third downs and in 4th quarters: Third in the league on 3rd downs, and second in 4th quarter passing.

I too wish he would have pushed us over the top at the end of last season ... but I lay the 2008 blame where it belongs, on the defense.


He has alot of work to do to be a franchise QB.
Almost every NFL professional, coach, GM and commentator disagrees with you. That's why there was a borderline feeding frenzy to obtain his services when he hit the open market. Eight teams were scrambling to get him, especially the Jets, Bucs, Redskins, Bears and Lions. And two 1st round picks plus a starter ... what part of that don't we all get?

I will grant you the Vikings decided against pursuing Jay, reportedly for off-field reasons. So the Vikings and angry jilted Broncos fans on one side ... the rest of the world on the other ;D


Buff if champ believed in cutler that much he would defend him on national radio and not Chicago radio don't you think? It's crazy I have to ask you that every time.
He said what he said, and it is what it is. It's crazy I have to tell you that every time.


And if any other QB was playing Seattle they would have never gotten down To the point of needing a comeback. Good try though
I saw the Seahawks game, did you? No you didn't. So why say such a thing?

It's kinda sad how people twist and turn to portray Cutler as a bad or mediocre player ... obviously the professionals disagree, they think he's a stud (except the Vikings).

We could still win this trade, though ... Orton has been playing lights out. He looks like a different player from the preseason ... So Orton and Ayers and Alphonso might make the who thing worthwhile :thumbs:

No1BroncoFan
09-29-2009, 06:40 PM
Baja is trolling for Cutler fans.

If you want to get into an argument about Cutler, this is apparently the new thread for it.
Well, he hooked one. :~ohyah!:

rbackfactory80
09-29-2009, 06:48 PM
In the past couple weeks many have came out with their disliking of Cutler. I would like to see evidence of all these teams that wanted his service. People need to stop taking this B.S. they read in articles so seriously. The articles contain trash that isn't even close to the truth. One more thing, stop with the he said it in public so it must be true BS. Yes Champ said good things about Cutler, he is smart. I would bet he couldn't care less about his candy-ass.

baja
09-29-2009, 06:56 PM
Shanny told me at the farmer's market that the whole defense did not like Jay at all. It started when Jay threw them under the bus in public.

maher_tyler
09-29-2009, 06:58 PM
Because this is a Broncos board full of Broncos homers.

Ask any analyst paid to scout for a living, Phil Simms, Troy Aikman, Ron Jaworski, Steve Mariucci, Mike Mayock, or anyone laying odds in Vegas what they think of Cutler.

Or you can go with Popps. I'll take Phil Simms.

They fail to see the intangibles with Jay they are blinded by the big arm, it happens even to the experts. What they are missing is he has the mind set of a loser and it will become clear to everyone over time. JMO

Perhaps it is easier to show what a loser mind set is by giving an example of a winning mind set, guys like Montana, not all world put flat out won games for his team. Elway did that too. Think about those players and what the brought to their teams, Cutler is not close to that "It"

Elway isn't human...you can't really compare a human to a machine!!

maher_tyler
09-29-2009, 07:05 PM
I think its more along the lines that people don't think he is a franchise QB. Why don't you start a poll and ask people do they believe that Cutler was the reason Shanahan got fired or if his lack of producing playoff victories is the reason. I mean for the love of god Lovie Smith hasn't been fired so this is ****ing retarded. The Bears are 2-1 Hilarious!

If not for missed field goals...0-3 could just as easily be their record and Seattle had Senica Wallace at QB.

maher_tyler
09-29-2009, 07:24 PM
You have lost it. Cutler lead Denver to TD to force overtime after a concussion. Plummer on the other head **** himself when he chance to lead the team to a victory.

Jake Plummer's record as a Bronco: 39-15

Jay Cutler's record as a Bronco: 17-20

The statement in bold is pretty dumb to say the least!

DBroncos4life
09-29-2009, 07:24 PM
If not for missed field goals...0-3 could just as easily be their record and Seattle had Senica Wallace at QB.
Is this a new NFL stat? Clark doesn't drop that TD pass against the Packers the are 3-0 so I guess everything works itself out in the end.

DBroncos4life
09-29-2009, 07:27 PM
Dude I get you think I slanted the poll to get an "Yes" it's you explanation of how that actually works that doesn't make it.

Either you think Jay is a coach killer and vote yes or you think jay is a up and coming franchise qb and you vote for that selection. Anything in between either don't vote or pick the one that comes the closest to the way you feel. What you are saying is your board mates are easily lead around. I don't happen to think so.

Cutler was not the reason Shanahan got fired it was his over all performance during the last three years. You didn't even call him a up and coming franchise QB you just called him a franchise QB.

Archer81
09-29-2009, 07:47 PM
I disagree he turned it over 'in bunches,' I suppose if you have some numbers I'll look. And I don't see how 'pouting' matters much, Elway was a huge pouter early in his career.

According to those numbers I posted from Kirwan, Jay was a clutch QB on third downs and in 4th quarters: Third in the league on 3rd downs, and second in 4th quarter passing.

I too wish he would have pushed us over the top at the end of last season ... but I lay the 2008 blame where it belongs, on the defense.



Almost every NFL professional, coach, GM and commentator disagrees with you. That's why there was a borderline feeding frenzy to obtain his services when he hit the open market. Eight teams were scrambling to get him, especially the Jets, Bucs, Redskins, Bears and Lions. And two 1st round picks plus a starter ... what part of that don't we all get?

I will grant you the Vikings decided against pursuing Jay, reportedly for off-field reasons. So the Vikings and angry jilted Broncos fans on one side ... the rest of the world on the other ;D



He said what he said, and it is what it is. It's crazy I have to tell you that every time.



I saw the Seahawks game, did you? No you didn't. So why say such a thing?

It's kinda sad how people twist and turn to portray Cutler as a bad or mediocre player ... obviously the professionals disagree, they think he's a stud (except the Vikings).

We could still win this trade, though ... Orton has been playing lights out. He looks like a different player from the preseason ... So Orton and Ayers and Alphonso might make the who thing worthwhile :thumbs:


Franchise QB's win. Franchise QBs should elevate their play when the team is behind.

As for stats...Jay's completion percentage dropped from 67% to 57% when the team was behind. He took 11 of the teams 12 sacks allowed in these losses, and 13 of his 18 int's came when the Broncos were tied or losing. His redzone % was horrific. From inside the 20, had a 46% completion rate, w/ 17 tds and 4 ints. Inside the 10 the completion % drops even more, to 38%. Another fun stat. 13 of Jays 18 INT's came on the Broncos side of the 50 yardline. During the stretch run through Oct and November, he threw 12 tds and 11 int's. He got worse as the season went on. He didnt exactly help the beleaguered defense, now did he?

Courtesy ESPN. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=9597&sYear=2008

Jay needs work to become the "Franchise player" everybody and their mother thinks he is. I would have preferred Jay stay in Denver, because if McDaniels could turn Cassel into a 60 million dollar man and make Orton a solid starter, imagine what he could have done with a player with Jay's physical ability; however. didnt work out. But to paint the 2008 Broncos defense as the sole reason the Broncos missed the playoffs and had a historic collapse is being dishonest. When the team needed Jay, he folded.

:Broncos:

Meck77
09-29-2009, 07:50 PM
Jake Plummer's record as a Bronco: 39-15

Jay Cutler's record as a Bronco: 17-20


Meaningless stats.

Orange_Beard
09-29-2009, 08:20 PM
If he is well then he is, if he ain't he might not be....

Punisher
09-29-2009, 08:29 PM
I really don't understand why These Cutler threads still pop up, I mean hes a Bear now, don't you ****ing Retarded mothers****ers under stand that hes a bear for god sake stop the ****ing Cutler threads.

Merlin
09-29-2009, 08:51 PM
Originally Posted by tsiguy
And if any other QB was playing Seattle they would have never gotten down To the point of needing a comeback. Good try though
I saw the Seahawks game, did you? No you didn't. So why say such a thing?
Tsiguy, your post captures much of the blindness and stupidity of the haters. Seattle had not allowed a single TD from the RZ. Their D had been very stout. Cutler passed for 2 TDs in the RZ, one of them when he was about to be sacked. Orton has done a fine job for Denver thus far, but he would have been killed in that game. Only Cutler's mobility kept drives alive. He did a hell of a job.

baja
09-29-2009, 10:06 PM
Cutler was not the reason Shanahan got fired it was his over all performance during the last three years.


Truth is you have no way to know that

You didn't even call him a up and coming franchise QB you just called him a franchise QB.

There are dozens of posters here that refer to Jay Cutler as a franchise QB if you are not one of them than like I said in a previous post don't vote in the poll. This poll was not created to see who the fence sitters are anyway.

tsiguy96
09-29-2009, 10:09 PM
Tsiguy, your post captures much of the blindness and stupidity of the haters. Seattle had not allowed a single TD from the RZ. Their D had been very stout. Cutler passed for 2 TDs in the RZ, one of them when he was about to be sacked. Orton has done a fine job for Denver thus far, but he would have been killed in that game. Only Cutler's mobility kept drives alive. He did a hell of a job.

i saw most of the game, it was on the same time as ours so i didnt pay close attention to it, cutler played well in the 2nd half to come back and win, but for how good everyone claims the bears are, they shoulda killed them. cutler threw another red zone pick in the first quarter that seattle turned into 3. seattles kicker missed 2 short FGs and were without starting QB, LT, and MLB, and chicago barely won that game, what does that tell you?

DBroncos4life
09-29-2009, 10:13 PM
There are dozens of posters here that refer to Jay Cutler as a franchise QB if you are not one of them than like I said in a previous post don't vote in the poll. This poll was not created to see who the fence sitters are anyway.

The truth is you are just speculating, doing anything to smear Cutler and stir up the Cutler crowd. I am someone that thinks Cutler is a potential franchise QB. Is he perfect? Nope not even close, but even the great Manning had his flaws. All QB's do and if he doesn't improve he isn't a bust at worst he will always be better then most QBs in the NFL because of his abilities. As of now I see him as a Brett Farve type QB more so then a Manning, Brady, or Big Ben.

Still I think the Bears make it to the playoffs and Smith keeps his job, but even if he doesn't I doubt its because of Cutler. Cutler isn't the one that made the Bears make the playoffs the past two years before he got there.

Archer81
09-29-2009, 10:14 PM
There are dozens of posters here that refer to Jay Cutler as a franchise QB if you are not one of them than like I said in a previous post don't vote in the poll. This poll was not created to see who the fence sitters are anyway.


A period. Something other than a woman's best friend.


Kidding. Run on on.


:Broncos:

baja
09-29-2009, 10:17 PM
I really don't understand why These Cutler threads still pop up, I mean hes a Bear now, don't you ****ing Retarded mothers****ers under stand that hes a bear for god sake stop the ****ing Cutler threads.

Yourt's is the 124th post so someone is enjoying it.

Here's a novel idea;
IF YOU DON'T LIKE CUTLER THREADS DON'T OPEN THREADS WITH THE WORD CUTLER IN THE TITLE

DBroncos4life
09-29-2009, 10:18 PM
i saw most of the game, it was on the same time as ours so i didnt pay close attention to it, cutler played well in the 2nd half to come back and win, but for how good everyone claims the bears are, they shoulda killed them. cutler threw another red zone pick in the first quarter that seattle turned into 3. seattles kicker missed 2 short FGs and were without starting QB, LT, and MLB, and chicago barely won that game, what does that tell you?

Excuses right? It sucks when everyone in the media is using them to discredit the Broncos wins but hell its more then OK to use them to do the same when the Bears win. You act like Wallace is new to the system or even played a poor game. And the Hawks are missing there MLB? I guess Urlacher isn't a valuable leader for the Bears or anything like that. Its cool though keep on making excuses why the Bears are beating NFL teams and get pissed when the media does it to us. Nothing wrong with good old fashion double standards.

thinkin101
09-29-2009, 10:26 PM
Can we let it go. I'll be the first to say I wanted Cutler here for his career, but now that he is gone I'm moving on. I'm not excited about Orton, but he is not losing games for us. Orton is our QB and Cutler is the Bears. Unless we play the Bears, I'm not going to root for Cutler to fail. Let's talk about destroying the Cowboys. That sounds more interesting!:thumbsup:

baja
09-29-2009, 10:28 PM
I really don't understand why These Cutler threads still pop up, I mean hes a Bear now, don't you ****ing Retarded mothers****ers under stand that hes a bear for god sake stop the ****ing Cutler threads.

It blows me away how well named some of the characters here are.

You call yourself Punisher (with a capital P ) and I have noticed you often suck the life out of a thread, do you know you do that?

rastaman
09-29-2009, 10:29 PM
A case can be made that Shanny's fall from grace started when he drafted Cutler with a squad that just went to the AFCC. Lovie will be put under the microscope if Cutler struggles and the Bears miss the playoffs. I think Cutler is so over rated that he will take down a few HCs before everyone catches on that while a possessor of a great arm he is a loser between the ears.

Ummmmmmm......Shanny's undoing was the Defense over the years and more so with how Slowick screwed the pooch with his sorry Defensive schemes who put out on the field. I'd Slowick disasterous performance as Denvers Defensive Coord got Shanny fired more so than Cuttler.

thinkin101
09-29-2009, 10:30 PM
It blows me away how well named some of the characters here are.

You call yourself Punisher (with a capital P ) and I have noticed you often suck the life out of a thread, do you know you do that?

That's pretty funny. I just caught the flu and needed a good laugh. T.Y.^5

rastaman
09-29-2009, 10:34 PM
I think the Bears are lucky to be 2-1. They are getting nothing from the ground game and Jay has 0 chemistry with his receivers.

:Broncos:

Winning with luck is part of the game in the NFL. Denver won with luck against Cincy and should have been 2-1. Gotta take the luck as it happens b/c we all know what happens when teams hit a streak of bad luck.

baja
09-29-2009, 10:35 PM
The truth is you are just speculating, doing anything to smear Cutler and stir up the Cutler crowd. I am someone that thinks Cutler is a potential franchise QB. Is he perfect? Nope not even close, but even the great Manning had his flaws. All QB's do and if he doesn't improve he isn't a bust at worst he will always be better then most QBs in the NFL because of his abilities. As of now I see him as a Brett Farve type QB more so then a Manning, Brady, or Big Ben.

Still I think the Bears make it to the playoffs and Smith keeps his job, but even if he doesn't I doubt its because of Cutler. Cutler isn't the one that made the Bears make the playoffs the past two years before he got there.

Dude I not 'trying ' to do anything. I agree Cutler is a potential franchise QB, you bet he is. Difference is you think he will achieve that and I see a loser with a problem that is most likely, sooner or later going to come up.

I just think the franchise made the right choice to dump the problem at the apex of his value.

rastaman
09-29-2009, 10:39 PM
OK lets say it another way for the obtuse;

Fix the defense in the draft and free agency after 05 and take a run. Plummer under Shanny's thumb was fine at the QB position. That team deserved a run. When Shanny drafted Cutler and blow the teamup that is when he lost the players.

Naw, I think what hurt the chemistry with Jake and Shanny was the departure of Gary Kubiack. Jake developed a great relationship with Kubiak and it seemed as though Kubiak called plays that were to Jakes strengths. Once Kubiak left for HC with the Texans and with Shanny drafting Cutler, that was too big of a change for Jake to handle. IMHO.

rastaman
09-29-2009, 10:48 PM
Do you really think Jay will come anywhere near those numbers?

Jay stands a good chance of passing btwn 3300-3700 yards with 22-27 TD's and 10-15 INT's this year. If Forte ever gets untracked I think Cutlers INT's will decrease this season to perhaps down to 10-12.

Now if Shanny is reunited with Cutler and as the Bears HC, Cutlers stats would approach 4K yds.

baja
09-29-2009, 10:48 PM
Ummmmmmm......Shanny's undoing was the Defense over the years and more so with how Slowick screwed the pooch with his sorry Defensive schemes who put out on the field. I'd Slowick disasterous performance as Denvers Defensive Coord got Shanny fired more so than Cuttler.

I'll give ya this rastaman that is the current most popular guess.

baja
09-29-2009, 10:54 PM
Naw, I think what hurt the chemistry with Jake and Shanny was the departure of Gary Kubiack. Jake developed a great relationship with Kubiak and it seemed as though Kubiak called plays that were to Jakes strengths. Once Kubiak left for HC with the Texans and with Shanny drafting Cutler, that was too big of a change for Jake to handle. IMHO.

That's reasonable.

rastaman
09-29-2009, 10:54 PM
Really??? Jay **** the bed in the opener by QB'ing for both teams. He currently is tied for 2nd most INT's with a rookie. And you have no doubt that Jay would've bought into McD's system and started throwing balls away instead of forcing them into coverage? None?

And by the way....how much "looking better" room is there for McD right now? Undefeated with a 15+ avg. MOV

And Baja...good poll.

It won't be all Jay's fault but the Bears are golfing in January and Lovie gets canned. Back to back firings of your head coach in years 3 and 4 of your QB career is not a good thing.

Haven't you heard? Its a conspiracy theory to have Lovee fired so Shanny can become the Bears HC and reunite with Cutler!!!:wiggle:

HAT
09-29-2009, 11:02 PM
Unless we play the Bears, I'm not going to root for Cutler to fail.

??? Say what ???

In 2010.....Sure. But THIS year every single Bronco fan on this planet should be rooting for Cutler to fail....And Forte to fail, and Hester to fail and their defense to fail.

FAIL!!!

thinkin101
09-29-2009, 11:07 PM
??? Say what ???

In 2010.....Sure. But THIS year every single Bronco fan on this planet should be rooting for Cutler to fail....And Forte to fail, and Hester to fail and their defense to fail.

FAIL!!!

O.k. you got me there. AFTER this year.

rastaman
09-29-2009, 11:07 PM
John Elway was a franchise QB because he carried his team to a win when any non franchise QB would have just shared in the lose with the rest of the team that is the difference, the Elways find a way to win and that is why franchise QB are worth so much. Jay Cutler has done nothing to show he is anywhere near a franchise QB except he throws a pretty ball. In fact if you can get past the pretty ball you will see a looser in number 6. That is why he will always be a coach killer or at least until he gets pegged as a looser.

By Elway's 4th year in the league he was already winning b/c he played with Joe Colliers 3-4 Defense. The Defense kept Elway in the game and allowed him to come back in win games in the 4th qtr. Now Cutler has a great winning percentage when the Defense holds teams to 21 points or less. Also, the SB losses/blow outs Elway suffered early in his career, garnered him some pretty negative press from the Football world. Its just that the Football world all became bandwagon Elway and Bronco fans when Elway and the Broncos won two consecutive SB's. Remember, Elway threw interceptions early in his career also, partly b/c he trusted his arm to thread the needle and partly b/c he felt pressured to make things happen b/c he was surrounded by sub par talent for so long. Go back and check Elways TD to INT ratio over his 16 year career.

baja
09-29-2009, 11:16 PM
By Elway's 4th year in the league he was already winning b/c he played with Joe Colliers 3-4 Defense. The Defense kept Elway in the game and allowed him to come back in win games in the 4th qtr. Now Cutler has a great winning percentage when the Defense holds teams to 21 points or less. Also, the SB losses/blow outs Elway suffered early in his career, garnered him some pretty negative press from the Football world. Its just that the Football world all became bandwagon Elway and Bronco fans when Elway and the Broncos won two consecutive SB's. Remember, Elway threw interceptions early in his career also, partly b/c he trusted his arm to thread the needle and partly b/c he felt pressured to make things happen b/c he was surrounded by sub par talent for so long. Go back and check Elways TD to INT ratio over his 16 year career.

We all agree Elway had a quality, if we call that quality "It" do you think Jay Cutler has that "It" too?

Taco John
09-29-2009, 11:21 PM
Naw, I think what hurt the chemistry with Jake and Shanny was the departure of Gary Kubiack. Jake developed a great relationship with Kubiak and it seemed as though Kubiak called plays that were to Jakes strengths. Once Kubiak left for HC with the Texans and with Shanny drafting Cutler, that was too big of a change for Jake to handle. IMHO.

I wonder why Kubiak didn't beat down the gates of Hell, er Sandpoint, to get Plummer suited up in a Texans uniform?

rastaman
09-29-2009, 11:46 PM
We all agree Elway had a quality, if we call that quality "It" do you think Jay Cutler has that "It" too?

Its too early to tell with Cutler just yet. Like any great QB, Cutler will need to be surrounded with great talent on Offense at the skilled position and play with a Defense that can hold teams under 27 points. Of course if Cutler gets to play in that type of scenario or team chemistry, now we are probably talking HOF material, but making the Pro Bowl will be a given.

By the way, one last plug for Elway. He holds the NFL record for the most sacked QB. Elway was sacked over 550 times! And Elway end his career as one of the top rushing QB's as well. He never gets enough credit for these stats.

Elway was a stud....and even Mike Vick has acknowledged that Elway was his favorite QB when he was growing up and wore number 7.

How he managed to play for 16 years and miss so few games over the course of his career was absolutely amazing. And Elway played during the era when oppossing Linemen could really Tee-off and knock the snot out of QB's. Simply put, Elway took a lot of punishment and wear tear on his body of a 16 year period.

Thats how sorry a team(s) Elway played for during the 12 years of his careers 16 year career. Remember, no way could Montana, Marino, Kelly etc could have endured that many sacks and sustained as long of a career that they did enjoy.

Elway could have played 20-22 years had he played on teams surrounded with talent and played under rules the literally protect the QB as we see today. Hence, we now see Farve playing his 19 season and he can still get the job done b/c Bret played during the era where QB's were protected from taking vicious hits....and his career has been prolonged.

rastaman
09-29-2009, 11:48 PM
I wonder why Kubiak didn't beat down the gates of Hell, er Sandpoint, to get Plummer suited up in a Texans uniform?

Ummmmmmmm....good question and something to ponder. Perhaps Kubiak thought Schuab had more upside.....and deep down realized Jake had his limitations.

DBroncos4life
09-29-2009, 11:55 PM
Ummmmmmmm....good question and something to ponder. Perhaps Kubiak thought Schuab had more upside.....and deep down realized Jake had his limitations.

He didn't get Schuab till one year after he got to Houston. I'm pretty sure he had Carr for at least one season.

baja
09-29-2009, 11:56 PM
Ummmmmmmm....good question and something to ponder. Perhaps Kubiak thought Schuab had more upside.....and deep down realized Jake had his limitations.

Or maybe because Shanahan had traded away Jake's rights to TB, far away TB.

watermock
09-30-2009, 12:38 AM
By Elway's 4th year in the league he was already winning b/c he played with Joe Colliers 3-4 Defense. The Defense kept Elway in the game and allowed him to come back in win games in the 4th qtr. Now Cutler has a great winning percentage when the Defense holds teams to 21 points or less. Also, the SB losses/blow outs Elway suffered early in his career, garnered him some pretty negative press from the Football world. Its just that the Football world all became bandwagon Elway and Bronco fans when Elway and the Broncos won two consecutive SB's. Remember, Elway threw interceptions early in his career also, partly b/c he trusted his arm to thread the needle and partly b/c he felt pressured to make things happen b/c he was surrounded by sub par talent for so long. Go back and check Elways TD to INT ratio over his 16 year career.

Reeves: Winder up the middle for 3. Winder up the middle for 2. Elway inc. to Nattiel. Punt.

Elway got pissed when Reeves fired Shanny and drafted Maddox in the supplemental.

I was there.

Turn the page.

watermock
09-30-2009, 12:42 AM
Or maybe because Shanahan had traded away Jake's rights to TB, far away TB.

Inconsequential.

Cutler's trade will be much more scrutinized.

baja
09-30-2009, 12:46 AM
inconsequential.

Cutler's trade will be much more scrutinized.

o k..

rastaman
09-30-2009, 06:53 AM
Franchise QB's win. Franchise QBs should elevate their play when the team is behind.

As for stats...Jay's completion percentage dropped from 67% to 57% when the team was behind. He took 11 of the teams 12 sacks allowed in these losses, and 13 of his 18 int's came when the Broncos were tied or losing. His redzone % was horrific. From inside the 20, had a 46% completion rate, w/ 17 tds and 4 ints. Inside the 10 the completion % drops even more, to 38%. Another fun stat. 13 of Jays 18 INT's came on the Broncos side of the 50 yardline. During the stretch run through Oct and November, he threw 12 tds and 11 int's. He got worse as the season went on. He didnt exactly help the beleaguered defense, now did he?

Whats the stat for the performance of the Broncos running attack btwn Oct-November! The running game plays a big part on how efficiently the Qb performs. A healthy running attack helps out a beleaguered DEFENSE. Look how much a healthy running attack is helping Orton efficiency and effectiveness. How effective was Denver's runnning attack inside the 20all season in the RED ZONE last year?
Courtesy ESPN.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=9597&sYear=2008

Jay needs work to become the "Franchise player" everybody and their mother thinks he is. I would have preferred Jay stay in Denver, because if McDaniels could turn Cassel into a 60 million dollar man and make Orton a solid starter, imagine what he could have done with a player with Jay's physical ability; however. didnt work out. But to paint the 2008 Broncos defense as the sole reason the Broncos missed the playoffs and had a historic collapse is being dishonest. When the team needed Jay, he folded.

:Broncos:

Any Franchise QB must play along side a decent Defense and have a consistent running attack oppossing teams must honor so they can't cheat against the pass.

The Broncos horrible Defense, injuries with key players on Defense and having lost 7 running backs to season ending injuries played a huge roll in the out come of the 2008 season. Imagine Orton's won lost record had he been the Broncos starting Qb last year with a bad Defense and an inconsistent injury riddled running attack.

jhat01
09-30-2009, 06:59 AM
Reeves: Winder up the middle for 3. Winder up the middle for 2. Elway inc. to Nattiel. Punt.

Elway got pissed when Reeves fired Shanny and drafted Maddox in the supplemental.

I was there.

Turn the page.

You were where? At the supplemental draft?

rastaman
09-30-2009, 07:03 AM
Reeves: Winder up the middle for 3. Winder up the middle for 2. Elway inc. to Nattiel. Punt.

Elway got pissed when Reeves fired Shanny and drafted Maddox in the supplemental.

I was there.

Turn the page.

I was there as well. We were discussing the past so why turn the page? Reeves fired Shanny b/c Reeves was stubborn and insecure and coached with a 60's and 70's outlook when it came to offense. Colliers defenses from 83-90 were pretty stellar and effective during that time frame.

No way would Elway had the success in Denver from 83-90 had he played with a Defense that was giving up 27-30 points a game; especially when you consider the poor collection of skilled offensive talent he played with btwn 83-90. Just saying.

Elways success with winning games and engineering all those come from behind 4th qtr wins was due in part for the Collier Defenses keeping the Broncos close in all those games.

The 2009 Defense if they don't get worn down will keep Denver in all their games and give Orton plenty of opportunities to march the Broncos down the field for 4th qtr come from behind wins as well. Question is can Praeter and Orton sill the deal? We will see.....thats for sure.:sunshine:

Punisher
09-30-2009, 08:37 AM
Yourt's is the 124th post so someone is enjoying it.

Here's a novel idea;
IF YOU DON'T LIKE CUTLER THREADS DON'T OPEN THREADS WITH THE WORD CUTLER IN THE TITLE

Here's another GREAT IDEA:
If you want to talk about Cutler go over to the Bears Mesage Board, You will find all the Cutler lovers over there.

baja
09-30-2009, 08:46 AM
Here's another GREAT IDEA:
If you want to talk about Cutler go over to the Bears Mesage Board, You will find all the Cutler lovers over there.

I'm not a Cutler lover Mr Punisher so I'll stay here if that is alright with you Mr. Punisher.

Punisher
09-30-2009, 08:51 AM
I'm not a Cutler lover Mr Punisher so I'll stay here if that is alright with you Mr. Punisher.

Yea it's Alright for the time bean, Now bend over.

baja
09-30-2009, 08:53 AM
Who you calling a beaner you pervert. ::)

Punisher
09-30-2009, 08:57 AM
Who you calling a beaner you pervert.

I'll make you love me just give me a chance. :-*

baja
09-30-2009, 09:00 AM
I'll make you love me just give me a chance. :-*

Errr I don't really live in Baja that's right I'm in...... India, that's it India I'm the guy with the turban.

baja
09-30-2009, 09:03 AM
39 posters (52%) think Cutler is a coach killer.

jhns
09-30-2009, 09:07 AM
39 posters (52%) think Cutler is a coach killer.

You mean a bunch of butthurt bronco fans are hating on cutler? His days in the NFL are over now. Damn spiteful Bronco fans!

Also, it is only %51. Why would that be rounded up?

baja
09-30-2009, 09:11 AM
You mean a bunch of butthurt bronco fans are hating on cutler? His days in the NFL are over now. Damn spiteful Bronco fans!

<b>Also, it is only %51. Why would that be rounded up?

Damn there goes my case....

jhns
09-30-2009, 09:14 AM
Damn there goes my case....

Yeah, you will get called out for using fake numbers every time.

baja
09-30-2009, 09:16 AM
Yeah, you will get called out for using fake numbers every time.

Damn a fake number bust now I'll never be able to show my face at a tailgate party.

jhns
09-30-2009, 09:20 AM
Damn a fake number bust now I'll never be able to show my face at a tailgate party.

Is that a bad thing? I always went to the games for the football. The football isn't being played in the parking lot.

baja
09-30-2009, 09:40 AM
Is that a bad thing? I always went to the games for the football. The football isn't being played in the parking lot.

Real Bronco fans prove it by putting a toy unicorn under their butt for the whole game, it's an old south stands tradition, do you do it.

jhns
09-30-2009, 09:41 AM
Real Bronco fans prove it by putting a toy unicorn under their butt for the whole game, it's an old south stands tradition, do you do it.

Way ahead of you. I have done that for years.

baja
09-30-2009, 10:03 AM
Way ahead of you. I have done that for years.

That explains a lot. ;D

colonelbeef
09-30-2009, 10:22 AM
Funny you bring that up.....Cutler's ATS record is even worse than his real one.
12-28 I believe. And what makes that number look even worse still....You can throw out all of your BS about it being "the defense's fault". Denver's horrible defense was factored into the making of every single one of those spreads. And yet your hero was 4-12 vs. the number LY.

If you want to put stock into what a bunch of dummy ex-jocks tell you on the TV...fine.

But don't lump in the know handicappers into that mix. They know exactly what Cutler is all about. He's a 'name' player that the general pupblic overrates when handicapping the team he plays for. Considering that even most sharps consider a 55%+ angle to be very rare. Fading Cutler led teams is a virtual goldmine to date. 70% is HUGE!!!!

The Bears expectations for W/L and super bowl odds drastically went up after Cutler was acquired.

The Broncos went into the toilet.

The game by game spread has zero to do with my point.

ScottXray
09-30-2009, 10:43 AM
The Bears expectations for W/L and super bowl odds drastically went up after Cutler was acquired.

The Broncos went into the toilet.

The game by game spread has zero to do with my point.

We all know that the books set the odds based on the number and amount of
bets placed on a team. He Who Shall Not Be Named went to Chicago and the books realised that a lot of money was going to come down from the fans there on SB bets, so they lowered their possible losses if he pans out and takes that team there. His leaving Denver meant that the opposite was going to be the case, and coupled with the coaching /regime change the odds were set to entice more people to bet on Denver.

It all is designed to make sure they get their "take" out of the bettors.

Of course the reality of the teams possible performance also is a main factor,
and sets a general trend, but denying the fact that the line has a lot to do with the expected bets being placed is ignoring the obvious. It didn't have as much to do with the players abilities as the fans ignorance of the real probabilities.

broncocalijohn
09-30-2009, 11:42 AM
You mean a bunch of butthurt bronco fans are hating on cutler? His days in the NFL are over now. Damn spiteful Bronco fans!

Also, it is only %51. Why would that be rounded up?

i would say this is a typo but you have done this earlier. What the hell, you trying to kiss Baja's A$$ and put punctuations before the number? If you are going to do it wrong and kiss his A$$ at the same time, at least do it like this..%51%. Not sure how i can flip that first one upside down.

baja
09-30-2009, 11:44 AM
It's 52% now. ;D

jhns
09-30-2009, 12:06 PM
It's 52% now. ;D

Not this again baja. As I said, 51%!

jhns
09-30-2009, 12:09 PM
i would say this is a typo but you have done this earlier. What the hell, you trying to kiss Baja's A$$ and put punctuations before the number? If you are going to do it wrong and kiss his A$$ at the same time, at least do it like this..%51%. Not sure how i can flip that first one upside down.

I don't know why I did it. My last post was better because you helped me though. I have a Nebraska education, maybe that helps clear up any questions you had.

BroncoBuff
09-30-2009, 12:10 PM
Regardless of the vote, fact is the DEFENSE was the coach-killer of Shanahan, period.

If you'd rather think it was Jay, fine, whatever gets you through your day.

baja
09-30-2009, 12:32 PM
Regardless of the vote, fact is the DEFENSE was the coach-killer of Shanahan, period.

If you'd rather think it was Jay, fine, whatever gets you through your day.

Don't you fine it curious that Bowlen played a little poker to shop Jay for the best price and dumped him like a hot potato. Don't you think Bowlen knew he held all the cards with the Jay issue. Bowlen & McD dumbed Jay because they wanted him gone because they know the player better than anybody else and what they know that most others don't yet is jay Cutler is a loser between the ears. My guess is they still high five each other over the deal when they pass in the hall.

Miss I.
09-30-2009, 12:35 PM
a. Video Killed the Radio Star
b. Jay killed the coaching legend
c. Who shot JR?
d. Why does it burn when you pee?
e. The Broncos are 3-0 woo hoo...

baja
09-30-2009, 12:39 PM
d. is not good

Miss I.
09-30-2009, 12:55 PM
d. is not good

true but for some reason it made me think of Jay Cutler, I dunno why? :kiss:

baja
09-30-2009, 12:57 PM
true but for some reason it made me think of Jay Cutler, I dunno why? :kiss:

Jay Cutler - bladder infection, I can see how that would happen.. ;D

Miss I.
09-30-2009, 01:02 PM
To be fair, I think the whole incident with Jay was unfortunate. I wish he was still here, but in the end it's Que Sera Sera, whatever will be will be. I hope we win and I hope Jay grows up into a great QB because I love the sport of Football and I like watching talent prosper (I know a lot of people don't like Peyton, but I like watching him, just as I like watch Jared Allen play and kind of hope he sacks Jay a few dozen times...I may wish Jay well, but I do enjoy a good sack) ;D

BroncoBuff
09-30-2009, 01:27 PM
Don't you fine it curious that Bowlen played a little poker to shop Jay for the best price and dumped him like a hot potato. Don't you think Bowlen knew he held all the cards with the Jay issue. Bowlen & McD dumbed Jay because they wanted him gone because they know the player better than anybody else and what they know that most others don't yet is jay Cutler is a loser between the ears. My guess is they still high five each other over the deal when they pass in the hall.
I dunno ... my feeling is that Pat made the decision by himself, he cited his calls being unreturned as his reason.

And I gotta say ... it's still early, but I might do an about-face (somewhat) on the trade. Orton has been a completely different player in the regular season that he was in preseason. Had anyone told me Kyle would play every snap the first three games and have zero interceptions, I wouldda laughed.

baja
09-30-2009, 01:36 PM
I dunno ... my feeling is that Pat made the decision by himself, he cited his calls being unreturned as his reason.

And I gotta say ... it's still early, but I might do an about-face (somewhat) on the trade. Orton has been a completely different player in the regular season that he was in preseason. Had anyone told me Kyle would play every snap the first three games and have zero interceptions, I wouldda laughed.

Think about it Bowlen is no fool he knew he had Jay by the short hairs. The 64,000 dollar question Why did he let him go so easy and so quickly?

baja
10-01-2009, 10:42 AM
43 posters think Jay Cutler is a coach killer.

colonelbeef
10-01-2009, 12:16 PM
43 posters think Jay Cutler is a coach killer.

and if it was anywhere close to being the truth, that # would be more like 98% on a Broncos fans website, with the dissenters being chiefs and raiders fans

baja
10-25-2009, 04:58 PM
Not too late to vote. ;D

Williams
10-25-2009, 05:01 PM
Not too late to vote. ;D

Lovie is ****ed.

baja
10-25-2009, 05:05 PM
the score started the day at;

45 Yes

41 No

Dukes
10-25-2009, 05:08 PM
Lovie is ****ed.

Pretty much. The only way he stays is if they make the playoffs. Not completely out of the picture yet, but I'm not betting on it.

Dukes
10-25-2009, 05:10 PM
the score started the day at;

45 Yes

41 No

I finally voted today. :)

baja
10-25-2009, 05:12 PM
I'd say that Bears team quit by the sound of things something that was characteristic of the Cutler lead Broncos last year.

baja
10-25-2009, 05:13 PM
I finally voted today. :)

So did 8 other guys. ;D

Cool Breeze
10-25-2009, 06:04 PM
I finally voted today. :)

Me Too!Booya!

baja
10-25-2009, 06:20 PM
We have 13 new Yes' and 0 new Nos.

Rabb
10-25-2009, 08:54 PM
I'd say that Bears team quit by the sound of things something that was characteristic of the Cutler lead Broncos last year.

it's nice to see it in some other town isn't it?

UberBroncoMan
10-25-2009, 10:07 PM
I can only say YES because Shanahan was fired with Cutler as his QB. Yeah our D melted the **** down in the final 3 games, but Jay's turnovers were just as bad during the stretch. He LOST us the Buffalo game and thus Shanahan's job. I also doubt Love Smith stays as coach in Chicago for Cutler's career.

baja
10-25-2009, 10:10 PM
In the poll;

We have 26 new Yes.

We have 1 new No.

Popps
10-25-2009, 10:11 PM
Lovie's gig is going to be on shaky ground very soon if this keeps up. This will likely be based on the flawed reasoning that when you have a "rocket armed" QB, you should be able to win. Of course, Denver fans can tell you how that will play out.

But, this is sort of like that guy who falls in love with the town whore and believes he's going to change her. You just have to let him go through it, and figure it out for himself.

lonestar
10-25-2009, 10:34 PM
Lovie's gig is going to be on shaky ground very soon if this keeps up. This will likely be based on the flawed reasoning that when you have a "rocket armed" QB, you should be able to win. Of course, Denver fans can tell you how that will play out.

But, this is sort of like that guy who falls in love with the town whore and believes he's going to change her. You just have to let him go through it, and figure it out for himself.


I'll bet lovie did not ask for him this was all the GM's gig, promising to get a franchise QB..

what the mokes forgot was the OC is the same guy that would not sign jaysus to go to U of IL when he was head coach, unless he played safety..
jay decided on vanderbuilt because he could play QB there..

now, either he knew something about jays QB play or he NOW does not know anything about QB play....

Rabb
10-25-2009, 10:38 PM
I know people will continue to argue that it is an unfair stat for QBs but the win/loss records for Cutler versus Orton are pretty amazing to look at

a lot can be said for a good leader and team guy to help with some wins

cutthemdown
10-26-2009, 12:01 AM
He is a coach killer. when Lovie Smith gets canned Cutler will be 2 for 2.

baja
10-26-2009, 12:03 AM
The "Yes" voters have increased form 45 to 73

Popps
11-12-2009, 08:08 PM
Hmmmm....

baja
11-12-2009, 08:37 PM
This thread will be current for years

Missouribronc
11-12-2009, 08:39 PM
Um, duh...

Popps
11-12-2009, 08:46 PM
Jay is about to claim his next victim.


He's a gunslinger, though!




FRANCHISE!

BroncoBuff
11-13-2009, 11:42 AM
Anybody who thinks Cutler got Shanahan fired is not very smart. Not smart about football anyway.

gtown
11-13-2009, 12:05 PM
Sorry, Jay couldn't hear you because he was busy launching rockets.

BroncoBuff
11-13-2009, 12:40 PM
He is a coach killer. when Lovie Smith gets canned Cutler will be 2 for 2.

If you really think Cutler got Shanahan fired, you've got a lot to learn about football.

broncocalijohn
11-13-2009, 02:13 PM
i voted no a while back but if Lovey gets canned, he sure didnt help his cause. Winning cures negatives about somebody. I am sure if we won our division, Mike probably would have had another year here in Denver.

baja
11-13-2009, 02:18 PM
If you really think Cutler got Shanahan fired, you've got a lot to learn about football.

Maybe you would kind enough to explain that cliché charge of yours.

baja
11-13-2009, 02:20 PM
As of today a whopping 66.67% of Mainics say YES Jay is a coach killer.

TonyR
11-29-2009, 07:58 PM
Bump.

Soul-Bronco
11-29-2009, 08:02 PM
has any other QB been responsible for two head coach firings back to back?

baja
12-01-2009, 03:07 PM
what say you now?

baja
12-01-2009, 03:09 PM
88 say Cutler is a coach killer

43 say he is a franchise QB.

What say you now?

Bronco Yoda
12-01-2009, 10:20 PM
Funny thing is this poll isn't even accurate now. I bet if you started this poll TODAY it would be around 90%. I'm betting most of those early Jay backers have changed their minds by now.

TailgateNut
12-02-2009, 07:32 AM
88 say Cutler is a coach killer

43 say he is a franchise QB.

What say you now?


He's a franchise killer!!Booya!

Gort
12-02-2009, 01:03 PM
looks like rasta voted 44 times.

cutthemdown
12-02-2009, 01:09 PM
Cutler is a coach killer because people have such high expectations for him, and when he doesn't reach them he sulks. That's a bad combo.

IMO Cutler can still be a winner but he needs a firm handed coach who is well known enough, tough enough, to get respect from Cutler.

OABB
12-02-2009, 01:12 PM
He's certainly a logic Killer. He has mashed so many brains here that he really should be called "The Lobotomy"

jhat01
12-02-2009, 01:17 PM
When Baja made this poll I thought he was crazy to say Eeyore was a "coach Killer" but I must say that he's probably right. Cutler will singlehandedly "kill" the jobs of every offensive coach on the Bear's staff.

baja
12-13-2009, 04:09 PM
Bears out of playoffs - Cutler 2 picks

baja
12-22-2009, 06:36 PM
Bump for the Lovie article

NYBronco
12-22-2009, 06:57 PM
That Bears #8 pick is looking so much better than the Broncos #21 pick at this point in the season (week 15).

Come on Jay let's get 30, unless of course you can't unseat Hanie.

OBF1
12-22-2009, 06:57 PM
This is the list of those that said Cutler is a coach maker: Only a couple of suprises here.

NO WAY, he's a franchise QB and will be a coach maker not breaker.

AlphaOmega, amesj523, atomicbloke, Bladerunner, Bronco LB52, BroncoBuff, broncocalijohn, colonelbeef, Darkdoc, DBroncos4life, Dean, drh12, Durango, El Minion, elsid13, gyldenlove, hambone13, hookemhess, jhat01, jhns, keef, Killericon, Liebs, Merlin, nadwiggins, Natedog24, NorthShoreExile, ORTHO, oubronco, penguintheory, randomtask, rastaman, red98, RTribbey, scttgrd, SouthStndJunkie, spdirty, SureShot, Symons26, TheReverend, thinkin101, Tom G, watermock, yerner

baja
12-22-2009, 07:00 PM
TJ & So Cal are missing guess they were above voting their conviction in a poll

baja
02-13-2010, 08:45 AM
Do you think Jay Cutler is a coach killer?

Ron Turner does.

rastaman
02-13-2010, 08:48 AM
Do you think Jay Cutler is a coach killer?

Ron Turner does.

What did Cutle do to get Turner fired?

baja
02-13-2010, 08:52 AM
Jay is the Bears franchise QB and they missed the playoffs must be the OCs's fault because it can't be wonder boy's fault and that leaves only Turner.

Next year it will be Martz and/or Lovie

Dagmar
02-13-2010, 09:11 AM
I think next year Mike Martz will show his true colors as a QB killer...

BroncoBuff
02-13-2010, 10:23 AM
This is the list of those that said Cutler is a coach maker: Only a couple of suprises here.

NO WAY, he's a franchise QB and will be a coach maker not breaker.

I don't actually think he's a coach "maker," that was merely the best of the two polar choices. To the extent you can define coach 'maker' or 'breaker' (and like 'franchise quarterback,' you can't), he's probably neither. That was just closer to the best answer.

It'll be fun to watch him in a Martz offense. For me anyway.

rastaman
02-13-2010, 02:48 PM
Jay is the Bears franchise QB and they missed the playoffs must be the OCs's fault because it can't be wonder boy's fault and that leaves only Turner.

Next year it will be Martz and/or Lovie

Meh! Orton didn't make the playoffs....who's fault was that? Was it our OC's fault....now wait our OC was none other than the McBlunder! Another 2-8 finish and McD could be out of job. What if Lovee out last McD?

Remember wishing and hoping doesn't make it so!

Drek
02-13-2010, 07:19 PM
I don't actually think he's a coach "maker," that was merely the best of the two polar choices. To the extent you can define coach 'maker' or 'breaker' (and like 'franchise quarterback,' you can't), he's probably neither. That was just closer to the best answer.

It'll be fun to watch him in a Martz offense. For me anyway.

Why are those hard things to define?

A franchise QB - having a starter so good that any theoretical upgrade would never be made available; someone who wins football games, especially down the stretch run of the season and in the playoffs. Referred to as a "franchise" QB or player because the franchise acknowledges their inability to do better than said player and commit themselves to him long term.

examples: Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, obviously. Phillip Rivers is a perfect example of a franchise QB many likely don't identify that way. So is Aaron Rogers. Upgrades on either are not actually attainable, and both have stepped up their game late in seasons to help put their team into the playoffs.

Coach killer - a player (namely QB) who's inability to conform to a system leads to the coach installing said system getting fired, due to the significant difference in financial commitment between them.

examples: Many 1st overall picks, thanks to their massive contracts. When they bust the coaches tasked with coaching him up are often first on the chopping block for something that was likely not even their fault. This phenomenon is more prevalent in the NBA where players have large guaranteed deals than the NFL where players have much less guaranteed money.

coach maker - a player of such outstanding skill that he elevates his team, covering up for poor coaching.

examples: Michael Jordan could be described as this type of player, making Phil Jackson, until Jackson put together the success he's had in L.A.. Many attribute Doc Rivers recent NBA success to being "made" by three borderline HOF players on his team. In the NFL we saw this with Jim Caldwell this year, a rookie HC who was given an elite team with a QB who basically runs the offense himself. John Elway was a good example of this in his pre-Shanahan days, often pulling victory from the jaws of defeat despite Reeves and Phillips best efforts.

So there you go Buff, a few real simple definitions with examples.

bombay
02-13-2010, 07:33 PM
super bowl contenders?

baja
02-13-2010, 08:51 PM
Meh! Orton didn't make the playoffs....who's fault was that? Was it our OC's fault....now wait our OC was none other than the McBlunder! Another 2-8 finish and McD could be out of job. What if Lovee out last McD?

Remember wishing and hoping doesn't make it so!



Orton didn't cost two first round picks and a third round pick and a starting QB. Nobody sees him as a franchise QB. The expectations were much higher for Cutler.

Lovee could outlast McD who knows?

I will say however my money is on Josh to have serious longevity in Denver.

go_broncos
02-13-2010, 08:59 PM
Cutler will be a backup QB in couple of seasons.
I will take average QB like Orton over cutler.

rastaman
02-13-2010, 10:08 PM
Orton didn't cost two first round picks and a third round pick and a starting QB. Nobody sees him as a franchise QB. The expectations were much higher for Cutler.

Lovee could outlast McD who knows?

I will say however my money is on Josh to have serious longevity in Denver.

Orton as with any starting QB in the NFL will get the lions share of the glory if he wins as well as take the burden of fault when they don't win.

Now just b/c you have lowered the bar of expectation for Orton while raising the bar of expectation for Cutler doesn't prove your argument either way.

Orton won one more game than Cutler in 2009 so both QB's were par with each other for wins. Cutler finished 4-6 over the last 10 games while Orton finished 2-8 over the last 10 games.

baja
02-13-2010, 10:21 PM
Orton as with any starting QB in the NFL will get the lions share of the glory if he wins as well as take the burden of fault when they don't win.

<b>Now just b/c you have lowered the bar of expectation for Orton while raising the bar of expectation for Cutler doesn't prove your argument either way.</b>

Orton won one more game than Cutler in 2009 so both QB's were par with each other for wins. Cutler finished 4-6 over the last 10 games while Orton finished 2-8 over the last 10 games.

Keep in mind the thread title. It doesn't matter where my 'bar' is. What will determine if Cutler is a coach killer in Chicago will be the organization and fan base reactions to cutler's performance and because he comes at such a high price there will be accountability if he has another bad year and that accountability usually falls to coaching.

rastaman
02-13-2010, 10:57 PM
Calling Cutler a so called "Coach Killer" leaves a lot to be desired. The truth is, Ron Turner in five years with the Bears never had a offense ranked in the top half of the league. Which is sad when you consider the Bears had a pretty good defense early in Turner's tenure.

Punisher
02-14-2010, 07:02 AM
Who Cares

CEH
02-14-2010, 08:52 AM
Jay is the Bears franchise QB and they missed the playoffs must be the OCs's fault because it can't be wonder boy's fault and that leaves only Turner.

Next year it will be Martz and/or Lovie

Guess what this group of QBs have in common

Jay Cutler
Jeff George
Mike Pagel
CHris Miller
Joey Harrington
Jeff Blake
David Carr
Dave Brown
Rick Mier
Tony Banks
Vinny Testaverde
Bill Kenny
( may have missed a few more )


In the last 30 years they are the only QBs that have started for 3+ straight years with no playoff appearances

Warren Moon falls right below the 1980 cutoff and Dan Fouts (40 years 1973)
2 QBs in the last 40 years that have started slow and reached "elite" status


If Cutler misses again in '10 that will be 4 1/2 straight years of no playoffs
Testaverde and Blake are the only other QBs in that group to keep his starting job that long. Maybe Jay can to aspire to Jeff Blake or Vinny Testaverde status.

Hardly Elite nor Franchise if you ask me

baja
02-14-2010, 09:34 AM
Good point, thanks for the post.

Jesterhole
02-14-2010, 10:46 AM
Far more likely that McDaniels is a franchise killer.

baja
02-14-2010, 10:54 AM
Far more likely that McDaniels is a franchise killer.

Really? Can you give me one example where a coach killed a franchise.

bronco610
02-14-2010, 11:07 AM
Really? Can you give me one example where a coach killed a franchise.

Herm Edwards ? Ha!