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View Full Version : What is Orton worth on the FA market?


Denver724
09-28-2009, 08:39 AM
Next year will be interesting. We have many unrestricted FA's (if there is a CB agreement). If not, we seem to be ok. I still think Orton is a FA with or without an agreement. Is he worth more to us than any other team (if he still keeps playing mistake free)?

Also, what about the rest of the FA's? Without a CB agreement all the 4 year players (Doom, BM, Kuper) will not be unrestricted. Do we sign one of them now to a long term contract? Just curious what everyone's thoughts are. I think Doom and BM are a must. By the end of the season I can see BM making huge plays every game.

baja
09-28-2009, 09:06 AM
I think by the break we will start signing the players we want to keep. I'm guessing we extend Kyle and Doom first.

Beantown Bronco
09-28-2009, 09:07 AM
If (1) Orton keeps playing mistake-free football for the most part and (2) there's no one in the draft that McDaniels loves at the QB position, then they'll most likely extend Orton at end of year or at least give him the high tender which would put his value at a 1st and a 3rd to steal him away. He's in the same situation as the other RFAs you listed, essentially.

Doom's price is seemingly going up on a weekly basis. I'd be SHOCKED if we don't hear anything about an extension in the next few weeks. Kuper and BMarsh will probably be extended at the end of the year assuming health and off the field issues are all cleared up, respectively.

Pontius Pirate
09-28-2009, 09:07 AM
A burrito and a bag of chips.

I keed.

He's probably worth a 7th round draft pick.

jebures
09-28-2009, 09:08 AM
I think by the break we will start signing the players we want to keep. I'm guessing we extend Kyle and Doom first.


4yr 20mill for Orton at Most

gyldenlove
09-28-2009, 09:35 AM
Something slightly bigger than what guys like Patrick Ramsey got and Simms got when they signed with us, 2 years at 11 mill or 4 years at 18. Nothing that breaks the bank but something with enough guaranteed to make it worth his while.

The caveat is that if he gets us to the playoffs and wins you can add another years and 8 million per playoff win.

Rabb
09-28-2009, 09:37 AM
it is hard to argue with leadership and results

cmhargrove
09-28-2009, 09:38 AM
I think Orton likes it here, and he likes playing for McD. If he continues to play well, he should certainly receive a four year deal as a starting NFL QB.

Way too early to speculate here, let's see how this season progresses.

Also - I bet we hit the right numbers to keep Elvis. He will get paid, but it's not going to be Haynesworth money or any crap like that.

Denver724
09-28-2009, 10:01 AM
4yr 20mill for Orton at Most

I think we will have to double that to keep him (4 yrs @ 35-40 million). Maybe a five year 40 million contract , but 5 years seems like a long time.

Pontius Pirate
09-28-2009, 10:16 AM
You guys are all drinking the kool-aid. He's a game manager. Any team with a QB need isn't likely looking for someone who can manage games, they are looking for a QB who can be expected to shoulder a load of getting the ball downfield.

gyldenlove
09-28-2009, 10:20 AM
You guys are all drinking the kool-aid. He's a game manager. Any team with a QB need isn't likely looking for someone who can manage games, they are looking for a QB who can be expected to shoulder a load of getting the ball downfield.

He will find a home either as a top backup or with a team with a new coach looking for a QB who can take care of his club for a year or two until he can get a top rookie.

Just like Simms did, just like Ramsey did, just like Griese, just like Jeff Garcia.

baja
09-28-2009, 10:23 AM
You guys are all drinking the kool-aid. He's a game manager. Any team with a QB need isn't likely looking for someone who can manage games, they are looking for a QB who can be expected to shoulder a load of getting the ball downfield.

Good plan and how many of those type QBs are around, you have the whole planet to choose from so how many exactly?

Pontius Pirate
09-28-2009, 10:23 AM
He will find a home either as a top backup or with a team with a new coach looking for a QB who can take care of his club for a year or two until he can get a top rookie.

Just like Simms did, just like Ramsey did, just like Griese, just like Jeff Garcia.

Okay, good. We agree. Phew. For a second there I thought this thread was going to annoint Kyle Orton as Chuck Norris in a Broncos jersey.

baja
09-28-2009, 10:24 AM
You guys are all drinking the kool-aid. He's a game manager. Any team with a QB need isn't likely looking for someone who can manage games, they are looking for a QB who can be expected to shoulder a load of getting the ball downfield.

You are going to see his status and his value rise with each game he plays.

Lev Vyvanse
09-28-2009, 10:25 AM
I think we will have to double that to keep him (4 yrs @ 35-40 million). Maybe a five year 40 million contract , but 5 years seems like a long time.

10 mil a year puts him in the elite QBs category.

baja
09-28-2009, 10:26 AM
Josh developed Cassel and he will develop Kyle Orton.

ChSuperStar
09-28-2009, 10:29 AM
If at all we extend orton it better be a 3 year deal around 14-15 mill. And Mcd will be drafting a QB in the 3rd or 4th round next year.

But we need to sign kuper and DM first and then see what BM comes up with, If he throws another drama or has a domestic violence before end of season it is curtains for him. But i wouldn't extend him before week 13-14.

Pontius Pirate
09-28-2009, 10:29 AM
Good plan and how many of those type QBs are around, you have the whole planet to choose from so how many exactly?

Jeff Garcia
John Kitna
Chad Pennington
Patrick Ramsey
Daunte Culpepper


All will be available FA's and all are better than Orton. For gods sake I'm sure Simms and Brandstater could do the job Orton is being asked to do.

Pontius Pirate
09-28-2009, 10:29 AM
You are going to see his status and his value rise with each game he plays.

Like Kerry Collins last year, right?

Denver724
09-28-2009, 10:32 AM
10 mil a year puts him in the elite QBs category.

What is the going rate for a starting QB these days? Isn't 8-10 million a low number for a veteran. By the way, I love the Chuck Norris comment by "The Pirate". It brings all back to reality. We are taking about Kyle Orton.

jhat01
09-28-2009, 10:49 AM
Jeff Garcia
John Kitna
Chad Pennington
Patrick Ramsey
Daunte Culpepper


All will be available FA's and all are better than Orton. For gods sake I'm sure Simms and Brandstater could do the job Orton is being asked to do.

Patrick Ramsey??? ahahaha aahhahahahah

Pontius Pirate
09-28-2009, 10:55 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rFrI2UmxtBM/R88VZUcaZ1I/AAAAAAAAAVw/XDfMn__u8xw/s400/koolaid.jpg

baja
09-28-2009, 10:56 AM
Jeff Garcia
John Kitna
Chad Pennington
Patrick Ramsey
Daunte Culpepper


All will be available FA's and all are better than Orton. For gods sake I'm sure Simms and Brandstater could do the job Orton is being asked to do.

Jeff Garcia.... cut from the Raiders who have the worse starting QB in the history of football.

John Kitna... is he eligible for Social Security yet.


Chad Pennington maybe but Orton will be a better choice before long

Patrick Ramsey... is this a typo?


Daunte Culpepper... not a good fit in Josh's system

Rabb
09-28-2009, 10:58 AM
Garcia is the only one on that list I would even think about being a decent option...as a backup

Kitna?

My God

ColoradoDarin
09-28-2009, 11:00 AM
4 years $24million.

ColoradoDarin
09-28-2009, 11:01 AM
Kitna? Really? I thought for a second that he had retired and is on E!spn, but then again, I always confuse him with Trent Dilfer (sans ring of course).

bombay
09-28-2009, 11:02 AM
As long as the offense improves weekly, as it has, I don't know how anyone can look askance at our 24-12 QB.

Clockwork Orange
09-28-2009, 11:02 AM
If Kyle Orton is smart, he'll take a friendly deal to stay here and be glad to get it. Point me to another situation where he's gonna be better set up to succeed. He's got one of the best O-lines in football in front of him, a strong running game, a good set of receivers and a coach with a system that's designed for his skillset.

If he leaves, I hope it's for a ****load of money because he's not going to find another spot that's more tailor made to his abilities.

gyldenlove
09-28-2009, 11:03 AM
Jeff Garcia.... cut from the Raiders who have the worse starting QB in the history of football.

John Kitna... is he eligible for Social Security yet.


Chad Pennington maybe but Orton will be a better choice before long

Patrick Ramsey... is this a typo?


Daunte Culpepper... not a good fit in Josh's system

I think the best fit for Culpepper is in close proximity to the grease-trap at Mcdonalds.

Broncos4tw
09-28-2009, 11:03 AM
Well, as (so far) a dependable if average guy who is not losing games for us, I'd say we keep him until we can replace him with a franchise guy. No reason to replace him with a Plummer or something like that. I'd sure as hell not sign him to any long-term contracts though.

Pontius Pirate
09-28-2009, 11:04 AM
Kitna? Really? I thought for a second that he had retired and is on E!spn, but then again, I always confuse him with Trent Dilfer (sans ring of course).

1) The point being, Orton is not better than any of those on the list
2) People forget that Kitna threw for 4k yards, 20 TD's, and an 80 rating on the Lions - the LIONS! - only two years ago.

Rabb
09-28-2009, 11:07 AM
1) The point being, Orton is not better than any of those on the list
2) People forget that Kitna threw for 4k yards, 20 TD's, and an 80 rating on the Lions - the LIONS! - only two years ago.

when you are playing from behind every game, and have the #1 receiver in every draft for the last 30 years from being last it is probably a good situation for stats

stats aren't wins, ask the 2008 Broncos

jhat01
09-28-2009, 11:12 AM
1) The point being, Orton is not better than any of those on the list
2) People forget that Kitna threw for 4k yards, 20 TD's, and an 80 rating on the Lions - the LIONS! - only two years ago.

You may be the only person in the ENTIRE world, besides Ramsey himself, that thinks Patrick Ramsey is better than Kyle Orton. It has nothing to do with Kool Aid. You can't be serious, can you?

Pontius Pirate
09-28-2009, 11:13 AM
when you are playing from behind every game, and have the #1 receiver in every draft for the last 30 years from being last it is probably a good situation for stats

stats aren't wins, ask the 2008 Broncos

My bad, I forgot that any QB can throw 20 TD's, 4k yards, and maintain an 80 rating on the worst team in NFL history (with the worst O-line).

WolfpackGuy
09-28-2009, 11:13 AM
I'm sure the Redskins will throw the largest deal in NFL history at him.

Orange_Beard
09-28-2009, 11:13 AM
****, we are 3 games into a 16 game season. I will let you know by game 15.

Pontius Pirate
09-28-2009, 11:15 AM
You may be the only person in the ENTIRE world, besides Ramsey himself, that thinks Patrick Ramsey is better than Kyle Orton. It has nothing to do with Kool Aid. You can't be serious, can you?

From a career passer rating perspective, yes - Ramsey is better than Orton.

rastaman
09-28-2009, 11:23 AM
If at all we extend orton it better be a 3 year deal around 14-15 mill. And Mcd will be drafting a QB in the 3rd or 4th round next year.

But we need to sign kuper and DM first and then see what BM comes up with, If he throws another drama or has a domestic violence before end of season it is curtains for him. But i wouldn't extend him before week 13-14.

If Brandon believes the Broncos want to extend him, before he signs with Denver he should check the market out. Afterall thats what FA is all about. If Brandon is playing well enough for the Broncos to entertain extending him, teams will be intrigued and interested in signing Bmarsh as well. The key here is his attitude and his off the field behavior and decision making. Question is, will Bowlen be willing/afford to sign both Doom and Brandon to lucurative contract extentsion next year. Brandon nor Doom will not come Cheap.

Mogulseeker
09-28-2009, 11:26 AM
We'll get a deal on Orton... he's a smart guy and he knows he'll do better in this system than in any other.

Rabb
09-28-2009, 11:28 AM
My bad, I forgot that any QB can throw 20 TD's, 4k yards, and maintain an 80 rating on the worst team in NFL history (with the worst O-line).

ok and again, how did that work out for the whole team?

Pontius Pirate
09-28-2009, 11:34 AM
ok and again, how did that work out for the whole team?

They started 6-2 and finished with their best record since 2000.

ColoradoDarin
09-28-2009, 11:38 AM
ok and again, how did that work out for the whole team?

I blame fantasy football for the general belief that prevails today, from expert to layman, that passing stats = wins. I still don't care if Kitna got a bunch of yards when the other team is playing prevent defense and just trying to run out the clock after they've secured a large enough lead to not care about a score or two.

Br0nc0Buster
09-28-2009, 11:43 AM
If Kyle continues to play solid and progresses as he gets more and more comfortable with the offense and the receivers, then he deserves a new deal with us

I would make it something like a 3 year deal, that way we would have a solid qb and it would gives us much more flexibility in the draft
Also if there was a qb that Josh fell in love with, we would be able to take him since Kyle wont be Eli Manning type money

jhat01
09-28-2009, 11:54 AM
From a career passer rating perspective, yes - Ramsey is better than Orton.

hahaha oh ok. nice perspective by the way 74.9 v 72.4 10-14, you know who owns that record as a starter? Oh nevermind, I'm arguing with a dolt.

Pontius Pirate
09-28-2009, 12:21 PM
hahaha oh ok. nice perspective by the way 74.9 v 72.4 10-14, you know who owns that record as a starter? Oh nevermind, I'm arguing with a dolt.

Really, friendo, just quit while you're behind.

gyldenlove
09-28-2009, 12:24 PM
I blame fantasy football for the general belief that prevails today, from expert to layman, that passing stats = wins. I still don't care if Kitna got a bunch of yards when the other team is playing prevent defense and just trying to run out the clock after they've secured a large enough lead to not care about a score or two.

You don't think people like Brett Favre, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady have anything to do with that at all?

baja
09-28-2009, 12:28 PM
We'll get a deal on Orton... he's a smart guy and he knows he'll do better in this system than in any other.

We should get a good deal on Doom too he knows this system is helping him greatly.

BroncoMan4ever
09-28-2009, 12:29 PM
Next year will be interesting. We have many unrestricted FA's (if there is a CB agreement). If not, we seem to be ok. I still think Orton is a FA with or without an agreement. Is he worth more to us than any other team (if he still keeps playing mistake free)?

Also, what about the rest of the FA's? Without a CB agreement all the 4 year players (Doom, BM, Kuper) will not be unrestricted. Do we sign one of them now to a long term contract? Just curious what everyone's thoughts are. I think Doom and BM are a must. By the end of the season I can see BM making huge plays every game.

i think Orton, Kuper and Doom are the most important that need to be re-signed. Orton is getting better each week as he is gettin more comfortable. he is getting to the point where he isn't just looking decent, but is actually looking good. he is going to have a breakout game in the next couple weeks.

i would almost guarantee that Orton gets an extension at the end of the season for at least 3 more years.

Kuper is a very important piece to our line, and we all saw that in week 1 when his side of the line was crumbling a little bit without him there.

Doom is on his way to becoming one of the most feared pass rushers in the league, and is needed on the defense. he needs to be re-signed. he can't be another Hayward, Pryce or Berry in that he was our sack guy and then we let him walk the next season in hopes of finding a new guy to bring what he did.

Marshall i am iffy on. part of me says give the guy a new deal if he is playing well, staying out of trouble and not being a headache to the team, but another part of me is thinking just get what we can for him and move on.

jhat01
09-28-2009, 12:35 PM
Really, friendo, just quit while you're behind.

How so dip****? Back up your retarded claim.

Cool Breeze
09-28-2009, 12:38 PM
If Kyle Orton is smart, he'll take a friendly deal to stay here and be glad to get it. Point me to another situation where he's gonna be better set up to succeed. He's got one of the best O-lines in football in front of him, a strong running game, a good set of receivers and a coach with a system that's designed for his skillset.

If he leaves, I hope it's for a ****load of money because he's not going to find another spot that's more tailor made to his abilities.


I agree with what you say. I wouldn't extend him until we get through the tough part of our schedule and then see what we have on our hands.
People look great against poor competition.

The pros you listed were not enough for Cutler... though no one said he was smart.

baja
09-28-2009, 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontius Pirate
Really, friendo, just quit while you're behind.



How so dip****? Back up your retarded claim.

Look the stupids are fighting..

jhat01
09-28-2009, 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontius Pirate
Really, friendo, just quit while you're behind.





Look the stupids are fighting..

**** you old man.

Steve Prefontaine
09-28-2009, 12:50 PM
I’m not a big believer in Orton. But if the Broncos keep winning, it’s hard to argue against him.

If the Broncos decide to extend Orton, I just hope they wait until after this season before pulling the trigger. Let’s see what he does against better competition and over a larger sample size.

colonelbeef
09-28-2009, 01:02 PM
As long as the offense improves weekly, as it has, I don't know how anyone can look askance at our 24-12 QB.

Easily. Trent Dilfer had a career winning record as a starter. He even had a super bowl win, and a career 5-1 record in the playoffs.

He also has more career INTs than TDs, and was really a backup masquerading as a starter. Ray Lewis was the reason he got those wins.

Win/Loss records, and pinning them solely to the QB, is a really foolish thing to do.

I look at it this way- god forbid the Ravens had a good QB capable of making plays- they might have made a run at multiple championships. Instead they had to drag Dilfer to a single win.

It's always better to have a good QB, and overpaying one because he has had the luck of playing with capable defenses and incredible ST (Orton in Chicago) would be an error in judgment.

Pontius Pirate
09-28-2009, 01:03 PM
How so dip****? Back up your retarded claim.

Woah, woah, slow your roll holmes. No need to get all sensitive just because I called out the fact that you're losing this argument.

You asked why I thought Ramsey was better and I pointed out that Ramsey's career rating was better than Orton's. You then bring up win-loss records as if that is a better indicator of QB performance.

If you believe that, then there is nothing I can say that can help you remove your head from your ass.

Finger Roll
09-28-2009, 01:06 PM
[QUOTE=Pontius Pirate;2573256]
Jeff Garcia 2 years ago yes but not anymore
John Kitna old and a turnover machine and can't win
Chad Pennington looks terrible so far this year also bad in 2007
Patrick Ramsey WTF one of the worst qb's as far as reading a defense
Daunte Culpepper terrible since 2004


If the broncos get rid of Orton and replace them with anyone of these guys, I will be pissed. Pennington is the only one I would even consider but his arm is so weak.

ScottXray
09-28-2009, 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontius Pirate
Really, friendo, just quit while you're behind.





Look the stupids are fighting..

LOLLOL:notworthy

The Bickersons are in the HOUSE!

baja
09-28-2009, 01:13 PM
**** you old man.
:stupid:

Pontius Pirate
09-28-2009, 01:13 PM
Look, guys, let's talk again after the Bronco's face some serious opponents. Until then, let's hold off on annointing Neck Beard.

bfoflcommish
09-28-2009, 01:21 PM
Woah, woah, slow your roll holmes. No need to get all sensitive just because I called out the fact that you're losing this argument.

You asked why I thought Ramsey was better and I pointed out that Ramsey's career rating was better than Orton's. You then bring up win-loss records as if that is a better indicator of QB performance.

If you believe that, then there is nothing I can say that can help you remove your head from your ass.

so you are saying wins and loses from your qb mean less then stats???? wow

culpepper had the world at his hands yet couldnt win big game, Dilfer all he had to to was manage game and he won super bowl. I would bet anything that culpepper doesnt win super bowl on that ravens team!

Kitna for all his stats (which most came in a martz offense while losing so they had to pass), wass sooo sought after he is where now?

jhat01
09-28-2009, 01:23 PM
Woah, woah, slow your roll holmes. No need to get all sensitive just because I called out the fact that you're losing this argument.

You asked why I thought Ramsey was better and I pointed out that Ramsey's career rating was better than Orton's. You then bring up win-loss records as if that is a better indicator of QB performance.

If you believe that, then there is nothing I can say that can help you remove your head from your ass.

I'm losing this argument? That's funny. So you are basing your argument on two rating points? You throw out win/loss completely then? That's cool dude, you're way out in left field on this one and you can't admit it. So I'll use your line of thinking for a moment..Chad Pennington is better than Dan Marino, Brett Favre, Jim Kelly and Roger Staubach. Just admit that you are wrong.

Beantown Bronco
09-28-2009, 01:23 PM
so you are saying wins and loses from your qb mean less then stats???? wow

culpepper had the world at his hands yet couldnt win big game, Dilfer all he had to to was manage game and he won super bowl. I would bet anything that culpepper doesnt win super bowl on that ravens team!

Kitna for all his stats (which most came in a martz offense while losing so they had to pass), wass sooo sought after he is where now?

Not to get in the middle of this love-fest, but of course stats count more than wins and losses when you are talking about "market value", which if you look at the title of this thread is the whole point.

Think about it. If wins and losses trumped stats at the QB position, then WE would've been the ones to give up Cutler, 2 firsts and a third for Orton, not the other way around.

jhat01
09-28-2009, 01:25 PM
:stupid:

any reason why you felt the need to jump in here? Do you think Ramsey is better than Orton as well? Keep fishing there Wrinkles.

bfoflcommish
09-28-2009, 01:25 PM
Not to get in the middle of this love-fest, but of course stats count more than wins and losses when you are talking about "market value", which if you look at the title of this thread is the whole point.

Think about it. If wins and losses trumped stats at the QB position, then WE would've been the ones to give up Cutler, 2 firsts and a third for Orton, not the other way around.

again point to culpepper and kitna and the demand they had on open market.

Beantown Bronco
09-28-2009, 01:27 PM
again point to culpepper and kitna and the demand they had on open market.

It wasn't their talent and numbers that caused the lack of interest. It was their baggage, attitude and demands that went along with them.

Pontius Pirate
09-28-2009, 01:37 PM
I'm losing this argument? That's funny. So you are basing your argument on two rating points? You throw out win/loss completely then? That's cool dude, you're way out in left field on this one and you can't admit it. So I'll use your line of thinking for a moment..Chad Pennington is better than Dan Marino, Brett Favre, Jim Kelly and Roger Staubach. Just admit that you are wrong.

You're switching gears, but I'll bite. Yes, Chad Pennington has a better career passer rating than those guys - and so technically he was a better QB from a statistical perspective. Your point being? I mean, does this list really reek of bad QB's or something?

1 Steve Young 96.8
2 Peyton Manning 95.1
3 Kurt Warner 93.5
4 Philip Rivers 92.4
5 Tom Brady 92.4
6 Joe Montana 92.3
7 Drew Brees 90.1
8 Chad Pennington 90.1
9 Ben Roethlisberger 89.4
10 Daunte Culpepper 89.0
11 Carson Palmer 88.3
12 Jeff Garcia 87.5
13 Dan Marino 86.4
14 Trent Green 86.0
15 Donovan McNabb 85.8

Broncosfreak_56
09-28-2009, 01:42 PM
You're switching gears, but I'll bite. Yes, Chad Pennington has a better career passer rating than those guys - and so technically he was a better QB from a statistical perspective. Your point being? I mean, does this list really reek of bad QB's or something?

1 Steve Young 96.8
2 Peyton Manning 95.1
3 Kurt Warner 93.5
4 Philip Rivers 92.4
5 Tom Brady 92.4
6 Joe Montana 92.3
7 Drew Brees 90.1
8 Chad Pennington 90.1
9 Ben Roethlisberger 89.4
10 Daunte Culpepper 89.0
11 Carson Palmer 88.3
12 Jeff Garcia 87.5
13 Dan Marino 86.4
14 Trent Green 86.0
15 Donovan McNabb 85.8

Would you rank John Elway and his 79.9 career QB rating better than any of the people you listed above?

jhat01
09-28-2009, 01:46 PM
Jeff Garcia
John Kitna
Chad Pennington
Patrick Ramsey
Daunte Culpepper


All will be available FA's and all are better than Orton. For gods sake I'm sure Simms and Brandstater could do the job Orton is being asked to do.

Nah, I think it's you who is switching gears..read your quote, you didn't pigeon hole qb ratings dude. You said "better" now you are picking and choosing. But it's cool, Patrick Ramsey is "better" than Phil Simms, Johnny Unitas, Eli Manning, and Drew Bledsoe...you're right.

bfoflcommish
09-28-2009, 01:49 PM
You're switching gears, but I'll bite. Yes, Chad Pennington has a better career passer rating than those guys - and so technically he was a better QB from a statistical perspective. Your point being? I mean, does this list really reek of bad QB's or something?

1 Steve Young 96.8
2 Peyton Manning 95.1
3 Kurt Warner 93.5
4 Philip Rivers 92.4
5 Tom Brady 92.4
6 Joe Montana 92.3
7 Drew Brees 90.1
8 Chad Pennington 90.1
9 Ben Roethlisberger 89.4
10 Daunte Culpepper 89.0
11 Carson Palmer 88.3
12 Jeff Garcia 87.5
13 Dan Marino 86.4
14 Trent Green 86.0
15 Donovan McNabb 85.8

DAMN RIGHT. I so wish we could have the likes of Trent Green and Jeff Garcia instead of that good for nothing bum Elway. because y ouknow he wasnt a good qb at all.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-28-2009, 02:23 PM
Yeah, Ramsey is better. Which is why he's out of the league right now.

Stupid, stupid post.

Rulon Velvet Jones
09-28-2009, 02:33 PM
The Patrick Ramsey "point" might be the dumbest thing ever posted on here. Good lord.

Finger Roll
09-28-2009, 02:36 PM
Woah, woah, slow your roll holmes. No need to get all sensitive just because I called out the fact that you're losing this argument.

You asked why I thought Ramsey was better and I pointed out that Ramsey's career rating was better than Orton's. You then bring up win-loss records as if that is a better indicator of QB performance.

If you believe that, then there is nothing I can say that can help you remove your head from your ass.

Wow it's too bad you're not our GM. You clearly know something everybody doesn't.

Pontius Pirate
09-28-2009, 03:25 PM
Yeah, Ramsey is better. Which is why he's out of the league right now.

Stupid, stupid post.

By "out of the league" you mean "on the Titans" - right?

broncofan7
09-28-2009, 03:27 PM
What he's worth? Whatever an above avg backup QB makes............think Billy Volek........

baja
09-28-2009, 03:30 PM
You're switching gears, but I'll bite. Yes, Chad Pennington has a better career passer rating than those guys - and so technically he was a better QB from a statistical perspective. Your point being? I mean, does this list really reek of bad QB's or something?

1 Steve Young 96.8
2 Peyton Manning 95.1
3 Kurt Warner 93.5
4 Philip Rivers 92.4
5 Tom Brady 92.4
6 Joe Montana 92.3
7 Drew Brees 90.1
8 Chad Pennington 90.1
9 Ben Roethlisberger 89.4
10 Daunte Culpepper 89.0
11 Carson Palmer 88.3
12 Jeff Garcia 87.5
13 Dan Marino 86.4
14 Trent Green 86.0
15 Donovan McNabb 85.8

There must be some mistake I don't see Jay Cutler's name anywhere on that list.

Pontius Pirate
09-28-2009, 03:34 PM
The Patrick Ramsey "point" might be the dumbest thing ever posted on here. Good lord.

Maybe it is. I'm sure all it will take is for Orton to throw one INT in a loss and people will agree that Ramsey is better.

baja
09-28-2009, 03:36 PM
Maybe it is. I'm sure all it will take is for Orton to throw one INT in a loss and people will agree that Ramsey is better.

I don't think so, not even here.

Pontius Pirate
09-28-2009, 03:36 PM
There must be some mistake I don't see Jay Cutler's name anywhere on that list.

Minimum 1500 attempts before you make it on the list.

Mr.Meanie
09-28-2009, 03:59 PM
Jeff Garcia
John Kitna
Chad Pennington
Patrick Ramsey
Daunte Culpepper


All will be available FA's and all are better than Orton. For gods sake I'm sure Simms and Brandstater could do the job Orton is being asked to do.

Wow. If there's any point in internet history that deserves a fail pic, this it.

baja
09-28-2009, 04:02 PM
Minimum 1500 attempts before you make it on the list.

Shouldn't they make an exception for a franchise quarterback?

jhat01
09-28-2009, 04:05 PM
Ramsey>Unitas in this weirdo's world.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-28-2009, 04:19 PM
By "out of the league" you mean "on the Titans" - right?

Oh, is he starting?

No?

Didn't think so. Thank you.

Third string on an 0-3 team is better than the starter on a 3-0 team. What a ****ing dumbass.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-28-2009, 04:20 PM
In fact, I don't know what's dumber: that you claimed Ramsey was better than Orton, or that you continue to claim Ramsey is better than Orton in the face of OVERWHELMING evidence to the contrary.

You are one stupid ass.

baja
09-28-2009, 04:22 PM
In fact, I don't know what's dumber: that you claimed Ramsey was better than Orton, or that you continue to claim Ramsey is better than Orton in the face of OVERWHELMING evidence to the contrary.

You are one stupid ass.

I thought it was a typo.

ColoradoDarin
09-28-2009, 04:26 PM
You don't think people like Brett Favre, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady have anything to do with that at all?

Passing stats have a very poor correlation to wins compared to turnovers. Brady and Manning are good at not turning the ball over, so while they do put up stats, they protect the ball more importantly. Favre is up and down with his TOs, and that does relate to his w/l.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-28-2009, 04:27 PM
I thought it was a typo.

It probably was, but he's not smart enough to say "Okay, just kidding guys. Ramsey isn't better than Orton, because that would be absolutely preposterous in light of every shred of evidence and both players' resumes. I'm sorry to get everyone so bent out of shape. I should have used my sarcasm font."

Because he's a moron. With no football acumen.

I hope this doesn't offend blueflame... what with her sudden desire for everyone to be pleasant and play nice. /rolleyes

baja
09-28-2009, 04:34 PM
It probably was, but he's not smart enough to say "Okay, just kidding guys. Ramsey isn't better than Orton, because that would be absolutely preposterous in light of every shred of evidence and both players' resumes. I'm sorry to get everyone so bent out of shape. I should have used my sarcasm font."

Because he's a moron. With no football acumen.

I hope this doesn't offend blueflame... what with her sudden desire for everyone to be pleasant and play nice. /rolleyes

Be nice now, just imagine if you had painted yourself into such a corner that you would pretty much have to retract every thing you said in the off season in order to justify liking your team again. It's a tough spot.

Blueflame
09-28-2009, 04:42 PM
I think I may have heard a jackass braying in the distance a few minutes ago...

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-28-2009, 04:44 PM
I think I may have heard a jackass braying in the distance a few minutes ago...

You were braying, BF? I had no idea you were "talented."

Blueflame
09-28-2009, 04:54 PM
... there it is again....

ZONA
09-28-2009, 04:55 PM
If Shanny were running this team I believe it would be easier to predict who was going to get the contracts and I'm sure some of them would get overpaid. But McD is kinda showing that he's gonna find players to come in here and produce and that he won't overpay them. If things go the way they are right now, we will be winning because of defense and running the ball. Orton I think would be looked at like how Dilfer was after winning the superbowl. Teams knew he was a game manager and he might not go win games with his arm but he wasn't going to lose them for you either. I think most NFL teams are in love with searching for the glory QB and not the game manager. I think the Broncos would end up being his best and most lucrative option.

As for the other FA's mentioned, it all comes down to how much they want. I honestly don't think you will see McD and Bowlen go the same route Shanny went and just overpay guys. If those FA's want to stay at a fair price, then I'm sure we will work with them and keep them. If they just want a big pay day and don't care where they play, I think they all could end up going.

UberBroncoMan
09-28-2009, 05:49 PM
We have a lot of needs...

Dumervil, Kuper, Sheffler, maybe even Marshall.

Orton isn't worth too much though... he's merely a serviceable QB not a star. Maybe 4-5 mill a year.

rastaman
09-28-2009, 07:21 PM
If Shanny were running this team I believe it would be easier to predict who was going to get the contracts and I'm sure some of them would get overpaid. But McD is kinda showing that he's gonna find players to come in here and produce and that he won't overpay them. If things go the way they are right now, we will be winning because of defense and running the ball. Orton I think would be looked at like how Dilfer was after winning the superbowl. Teams knew he was a game manager and he might not go win games with his arm but he wasn't going to lose them for you either. I think most NFL teams are in love with searching for the glory QB and not the game manager. I think the Broncos would end up being his best and most lucrative option.

As for the other FA's mentioned, it all comes down to how much they want. I honestly don't think you will see McD and Bowlen go the same route Shanny went and just overpay guys. If those FA's want to stay at a fair price, then I'm sure we will work with them and keep them. If they just want a big pay day and don't care where they play, I think they all could end up going.

Players career's are short in the NFL. You can't really blame a player for putting salary ahead of the team goals. In the NFL you either produce or you're gone and so are your aspirations for big pay days. With the salary cap and teams not wanting to pay too much to keep players for fear of busting their cap goals, you should see a lot of movement during free agency.

Pontius Pirate
09-29-2009, 10:15 AM
In fact, I don't know what's dumber: that you claimed Ramsey was better than Orton, or that you continue to claim Ramsey is better than Orton in the face of OVERWHELMING evidence to the contrary.

You are one stupid ass.

The only one whose wrong here is you when you said Patrick Ramsey is out of the league. I mean, whose got the foot in the mouth here?

When you're able to illustrate the overwhelming evidence that Ramsey is better than Orton, I'll happily concede. Otherwise, I point to their career passer rating and fail to see how Orton is better.

The fact that we're debating the merits of Orton vs. Ramsey is ridiculous anyways as both are mediocre at best.

Pontius Pirate
09-29-2009, 10:18 AM
Ramsey>Unitas in this weirdo's world.

Apples to oranges jhat. Yeah, Unitas has a worse passer rating. You think Unitas would play better in today's league than Ramsey? Or Pennington? It's a stretch argument at best. Just the complexity of the patterns, speed of defenses, and overall competition level is night and day.

Now, if we're talking about Zombie Jonny Unitas, with his penchant for eating brains, then perhaps.

jhat01
09-29-2009, 10:25 AM
Apples to oranges jhat. Yeah, Unitas has a worse passer rating. You think Unitas would play better in today's league than Ramsey? Or Pennington? It's a stretch argument at best. Just the complexity of the patterns, speed of defenses, and overall competition level is night and day.

Now, if we're talking about Zombie Jonny Unitas, with his penchant for eating brains, then perhaps.

I don't know dude, I just don't buy the qb rating as a true gauge to who is better, just like you can't just look at the wins/losses exclusively. I will agree that both Ramsey and Orton can be considered "middle of the road" guys, but I would take my chances with Orton 10 times out of ten...and I'd be willing to bet that 32 NFL teams would agree with me.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-29-2009, 10:33 AM
The only one whose wrong here is you when you said Patrick Ramsey is out of the league. I mean, whose got the foot in the mouth here?

When you're able to illustrate the overwhelming evidence that Ramsey is better than Orton, I'll happily concede. Otherwise, I point to their career passer rating and fail to see how Orton is better.

The fact that we're debating the merits of Orton vs. Ramsey is ridiculous anyways as both are mediocre at best.

You're absolutely right! I should have known that a first round flameout, who failed miserably as a backup here, who was out of the league all off season and finally signed as a third string quarterback, was back in the league. Boy, is my face red.

And yes, he's totally so much better than Orton, who is starting on a 3-0 team and hasn't thrown a single pick.

You REALLY don't see the problem with your argument? REALLY?

Elway777
09-29-2009, 12:00 PM
We have a lot of needs...

Dumervil, Kuper, Sheffler, maybe even Marshall.

Orton isn't worth too much though... he's merely a serviceable QB not a star. Maybe 4-5 mill a year. I agree that Orton should be signed for around 4 million dollars a year tops.

Irish Stout
09-29-2009, 12:47 PM
Jeff Garcia
John Kitna
Chad Pennington
Patrick Ramsey
Daunte Culpepper


All will be available FA's and all are better than Orton. For gods sake I'm sure Simms and Brandstater could do the job Orton is being asked to do.

All those guys are like 4000 years old and suck. If Ramsey were decent he'd still be here. Culpepper isn't even on a team now thats how good he is. Pennington is hurt and even when he wasn't he had quite a few turn overs.

If you are serious by this list then you are serious when you say Simms would be better than Orton, which obviously makes you smarter than a lot of other people. Congratulations.

Edit: just remembered Culpepper got signed with lions... did they release him after Stafford?

thinkin101
09-29-2009, 01:50 PM
Orton isn't worth much. He is a backup at best on the majority of teams in the N.F.L. I can live with him for this season as long as we don't resign him next year. Unless it's strictly a backup role or to groom McCoy.