Is Obama Simply Bush: Phase II?

[Rohirrim]

I really expected Obama to start a pretty aggressive agenda of changing the Bush slide toward an imperial presidency, but it hasn't happened. In fact, when the subject comes up, Obama just seems to go along with the Bush cabal's interpretation of presidential power. Interesting take here:
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/23110?email

But the momentum of accumulating powers in the executive is not easily reversed, checked, or even slowed. It was not created by the Bush administration. The whole history of America since World War II caused an inertial transfer of power toward the executive branch. The monopoly on use of nuclear weaponry, the cult of the commander in chief, the worldwide network of military bases to maintain nuclear alert and supremacy, the secret intelligence agencies, the entire national security state, the classification and clearance systems, the expansion of state secrets, the withholding of evidence and information, the permanent emergency that has melded World War II with the cold war and the cold war with the "war on terror"—all these make a vast and intricate structure that may not yield to effort at dismantling it. Sixty-eight straight years of war emergency powers (1941–2009) have made the abnormal normal, and constitutional diminishment the settled order.

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Now a new president quickly becomes aware of the vast empire that is largely invisible to the citizenry. The United States maintains an estimated one thousand military bases in other countries. I say "estimated" because the exact number, location, and size of the bases are either partly or entirely cloaked in secrecy, among other things to protect nuclear installations.The secrecy involved is such that during the Cuban Missile Crisis, President Kennedy did not even know, at first, that we had nuclear missiles stationed in Turkey.

[Rohirrim]

I found this particularly interesting:
An example of this imperial system is the Indian Ocean island of Diego Garcia.[5] In the 1960s, to secure a military outpost without fear of any interference from indigenous peoples, the two thousand Chagossian inhabitants were forcibly expelled, deprived of their native land, and sent a thousand miles away. (It is the same ploy we had used in removing native peoples from the Bikini and Enewetak atolls and Lib Island, so that we could conduct our sixty-eight atomic and hydrogen bomb tests there.) Though technically Diego Garcia is leased from the British, it is entirely run by the United States. It was the United States that expelled the Chagossians and confiscated their property. Diego Garcia has become a vast armory, as well as a storage and staging area and harbor and launch site, from which supplies and air strikes are fanned out over the Middle East, especially to the Persian Gulf and the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. No journalists are allowed to visit it. It was funded on a vast scale by various deceptions of Congress. Even the leasing terms with Great Britain were kept secret, to avoid congressional oversight.

For what reason does Diego Garcia exist other than to secure our oil?

[Smiling Assassin27]

Funny you should mention that. Additionally, Obama has decided that Bush's take on the authorization given him by Congress to use force against the Taliban and Al Quadea was correct. He's confirmed the Executive Branch's authority to detain enemy combatants indefinitely without trial. Of course, he spent his entire campaign railing against Bush for this unilateral determination.

According to Obama, no Congressional authorization for indefinite detainment is necessary. The bottom line is that Bush's policy and Obama's policy on this end up with the same result--indefinite detainment without Congressional approval. Hearken back to May, when he said:

“We must recognize that these detention policies cannot be unbounded,” he said at the time. “They can’t be based simply on what I or the executive branch decide alone.”

In essence, he's now saying that Bush made the right call. Bush, Phase II indeed.

[Hotrod]

Were ****ed

[Smiling Assassin27]

Were ****ed

The place where incompetence, cult of personality, and power-mongering collide--Obamatown.

[Hotrod]

http://guyanafreepress.cariblogger.com/files/2008/11/3019468249_d17b20d31a_o.jpg

[Sam.I.Am]

For what reason does Diego Garcia exist other than to secure our oil?

1) It is just about halfway around the world from CONUS. Logistically it makes sense to have a supply station there. It has a large, protected, deep harbor and had room for an airfield. It's centrally located between the east coast of Africa, the middle east, the west coast of India and is fairly close to Australia.

2) There are other interests besides the Persian Gulf on that side of the world.

[Rohirrim]

The place where incompetence, cult of personality, and power-mongering collide--Obamatown.

I think the point is that the systems that are in place now override the will of the president and the Constitution. There's nothing he can do about it. Like Ike said, the military/industrial complex with some national security and spy organizations are calling the shots.

[rastaman]

The place where incompetence, cult of personality, and power-mongering collide--Obamatown.

Yeah Right! Where were all you conservatives when the Supreme overstepped their legal authority and for the first time in our history selected GW Bush into the WH! The Founding Fathers did not intend nor want the Supreme Court to decide elections, the founders wanted the STATES! to decide elections. The Supreme court should of sent Gore V Bush back to the state of Florida to decide.

However, once the Supreme Court decided to Select Bush thus ignoring states rights and the Will of the People......thats when America and its citizens were "FUCC'D"!

Where was Conservative America back then? Why didn't conservative America become alarmed and pissed with the Supreme Court for usurping the Constitution and becoming "Activist" Justices and over ruling Settled Law?

Now suddenly Republican voting Americans got their panties in a bunch b/c now Obama has the same powers that they idly stood by and allowed Bush to have! Don't you think its a little too late to biatch moan and complain?

Had Republican Americans stood up against Patriot Acts I and II, don't you think the rest of America would have stood beside you in PROTEST! Had Republican America stood up in protest against Bush's imperialist Presidency do you not think America would have stood by you as well?

Bush used the Patriot Act to spy on his political enemies (the Democratic Party) while lying and saying he was monitoring-eaves dropping on Terrorist. Once again, Conservative America didn't say or do "Jack Shiat". American citizens looked for help and outrage from their Republican brethren and yet no help was fourth coming.

So why suddenly all the concerns? Its was obviously alright for Bush to have all this power yet Obama cannot? Why the hypocrisy?

[Hotrod]

Yeah Right! Where were all you conservatives when the Supreme overstepped their legal authority and for the first time in our history selected GW Bush into the WH! The Founding Fathers did not intend nor want the Supreme Court to decide elections, the founders wanted the STATES! to decide elections. The Supreme court should of sent Gore V Bush back to the state of Florida to decide.

However, once the Supreme Court decided to Select Bush thus ignoring states rights and the Will of the People......thats when America and its citizens were "FUCC'D"!

Where was Conservative America back then? Why didn't conservative America become alarmed and pissed with the Supreme Court for usurping the Constitution and becoming "Activist" Justices and over ruling Settled Law?

Now suddenly Republican voting Americans got their panties in a bunch b/c now Obama has the same powers that they idly stood by and allowed Bush to have! Don't you think its a little too late to biatch moan and complain?

Had Republican Americans stood up against Patriot Acts I and II, don't you think the rest of America would have stood beside you in PROTEST! Had Republican America stood up in protest against Bush's imperialist Presidency do you not think America would have stood by you as well?

Bush used the Patriot Act to spy on his political enemies (the Democratic Party) while lying and saying he was monitoring-eaves dropping on Terrorist. Once again, Conservative America didn't say or do "Jack Shiat". American citizens looked for help and outrage from their Republican brethren and yet no help was fourth coming.

So why suddenly all the concerns? Its was obviously alright for Bush to have all this power yet Obama cannot? Why the hypocrisy?

Your right the best course of action now is to point fingers and continue drawing political lines in the sand.

I'm sick of both partys I'm going to be my own damn party from now on. Hell atleast I was born here maybe I should run for office ;)

[Smiling Assassin27]

Yeah Right! Where were all you conservatives when the Supreme overstepped their legal authority and for the first time in our history selected GW Bush into the WH! The Founding Fathers did not intend nor want the Supreme Court to decide elections, the founders wanted the STATES! to decide elections. The Supreme court should of sent Gore V Bush back to the state of Florida to decide.

However, once the Supreme Court decided to Select Bush thus ignoring states rights and the Will of the People......thats when America and its citizens were "FUCC'D"!

Where was Conservative America back then? Why didn't conservative America become alarmed and pissed with the Supreme Court for usurping the Constitution and becoming "Activist" Justices and over ruling Settled Law?

Now suddenly Republican voting Americans got their panties in a bunch b/c now Obama has the same powers that they idly stood by and allowed Bush to have! Don't you think its a little too late to biatch moan and complain?

Had Republican Americans stood up against Patriot Acts I and II, don't you think the rest of America would have stood beside you in PROTEST! Had Republican America stood up in protest against Bush's imperialist Presidency do you not think America would have stood by you as well?

Bush used the Patriot Act to spy on his political enemies (the Democratic Party) while lying and saying he was monitoring-eaves dropping on Terrorist. Once again, Conservative America didn't say or do "Jack Shiat". American citizens looked for help and outrage from their Republican brethren and yet no help was fourth coming.

So why suddenly all the concerns? Its was obviously alright for Bush to have all this power yet Obama cannot? Why the hypocrisy?


Wow, you TOTALLY misunderstood the argument. Here it is again. For 8 years, you, Obama, and many others screamed loudly that the President was exceeding the authority granted him by the Constitution and by the authority given him by Congress with regard to Al Quaeda and the Taliban. If you recall, Bush claimed the power to indefinitely detain these folks without trial--the key word being INDEFINITELY--and assumed that authority based on his own presumption. You cried, you hissed, you burned him in effigy because, so you said, it was undignified, a violation of civil rights, and a clear crossing of a line in the checks and balance system of our government. Fast forward 8 years. Obama himself railed on Bush for this as you and the left knelt in adoration. He then, after 2 years of disparaging Bush for his decision, decides that Bush had it right all along, and that he was also gonna unilaterally detain these folks indefinitely without a trial.

Personally, I think the decision has merit, as national security has to be an overriding consideration. My problem is with Obama making a blatantly hypocritical move and you not batting an eyelash. It's inconsistent, it's unfair, and it's a shameful double standard. You clamored for a man who would be the anti-Bush, and voted in a man who is, in many way, indistinguishable from Bush. I see it. Many here, partisans and non-partisans alike, see it. But you hang on to your hatred of Bush for dear life, as if it covers up the stark reality that Obama is Bush on all those issues you objected to for those long 8 years. Deny, obfuscate, deflect, and invoke a President no longer in power to answer if you want, but it may be time to join the real world, not the parallel universe of hope, change, transparency, and post-partisan politics.

[TexanBob]

Yeah Right! Where were all you conservatives when the Supreme overstepped their legal authority and for the first time in our history selected GW Bush into the WH! The Founding Fathers did not intend nor want the Supreme Court to decide elections, the founders wanted the STATES! to decide elections. The Supreme court should of sent Gore V Bush back to the state of Florida to decide.


Umm, the Supremes did that the first time but the Florida Supremes just continued to botch it.

Recounting the votes in only selected counties was a violation of federal law.

The Supremes did not "select" Bush. The State of Florida had rules for how the election should be. 1) Have the vote. 2) If the election is close, you have an automatic recount in all counties. 3) There's a state law which mandates a deadline by which the recounted vote must be submitted to the state or else the original count of the county becomes official.

The Florida Supreme Court jumped in and decided the deadline was artificial and agreed that recounts could be done, but only in certain counties where Democrats would be expected to gain votes. The U.S. Supremes stepped in and ruled narrowly that this was not legal. The Florida Supreme Court continued to count vote only in certain counties so, at last, the U.S. Supreme Court stepped in and said you can't pick and choose where you want to recount votes. Because there wasn't enough time to recount every vote statewide before electors would need to be chosen, the decision effectively stopped the election where it was, which had Bush ahead as it did at every step of the way. At no time, was Gore ever ahead.

So, the whole topic is a straw dog. Whatever there might have been in the Patriot Act was unrelated to the Florida election.

As tough as it is for liberals to believe, Bush won Florida. He won Florida every step of the way and it was, indeed, the will of the people. It's been eight years and you lefties still can't handle the truth.

[baja]

Were ****ed

You know you have had it right all along, we are.

[kappys]

A revolution every 50 years. We certainly need it now

[Hotrod]

A revolution every 50 years. We certainly need it now

Wont happen until the slowdown is complete. Once todays youth dont have it "better" they along with their parents will have had enough.

We are to fat and lazy to do anything until our comforts are taken away......Sad but true IMO

[Smiling Assassin27]

Wont happen until the slowdown is complete. Once todays youth dont have it "better" they along with their parents will have had enough.

We are to fat and lazy to do anything until our comforts are taken away......Sad but true IMO


Shut up and pass me some more Doritos...:wiggle:

[baja]

Wont happen until the slowdown is complete. Once todays youth dont have it "better" they along with their parents will have had enough.

We are to<b> fat and lazy </b>to do anything until our comforts are taken away......Sad but true IMO

The rendering will commence soon.

[Bronx33]

Maybe but i don't remember bush tucking his balls up his butt and apologizing to a bunch of murderous scumbag dictators, Moammar Kadafi almost pissed himself he rambled for 1 hour saying the U.S. should make him president for life.

[TexanBob]

Qaddafi, Chavez, Castro, Achmadinajad....Obama's big fan club. They all want him made president for life like they are. Wonder why?

[baja]

Maybe but i don't remember bush tucking his balls up his butt and apologizing to a bunch of murderous scumbag dictators, Moammar Kadafi almost pissed himself he rambled for 1 hour saying the U.S. should make him president for life.

Now there's an endorsement one can treasure.

[Rohirrim]

Here's Gary Hart's take on the same issue:

Despite the fact that our Constitution, Article I, section 8, gives Congress solely the power to “provide for the common defense” and “declare War,” it is not accidental that no declaration of war has been authorized since 1941, even while we waged war in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and dozens of other venues. Presidents now decide when and where we will wage war.

Gary Wills bolsters his provocative argument by listing all of the George W. Bush “security” measures quietly adopted and approved by the new Obama administration. His argument is not that President Obama was a closet neo-conservative who managed to fool the voters. Rather, he says, the national security state has become a kind of powerful prison with the president as warden. He has authority over it, but he cannot escape it.

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gary-hart/the-president-in-chains_b_298586.html

The two biggest mistakes we have made in this country are the National Security Act of 1947 and Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad. Unfortunately, once power is ceded you can't get it back. IMO, when historians look back on the United States, they will note that these two decisions led to our downfall.

[rastaman]

Qaddafi, Chavez, Castro, Achmadinajad....Obama's big fan club. They all want him made president for life like they are. Wonder why?

Shiat.....Obama's real enemies are the Republican Congress and conservative extremism. :~ohyah!:

Bush used illegal wire tapping and eaves against his political enemies....chances are Obama will do the same thing with his Republican enemies to stay one step ahead of them. Thanks GW Bush!

[rastaman]

Maybe but i don't remember bush tucking his balls up his butt and apologizing to a bunch of murderous scumbag dictators, Moammar Kadafi almost pissed himself he rambled for 1 hour saying the U.S. should make him president for life.

Bush doesn't remember either b/c the pressures of being President caused him to return to drinking excessively AGAIN! And America had a Dry Drunk in the WH who feel off the wagon constantly over 8 years in the WH.

[baja]

Bush doesn't remember either b/c the pressures of being President caused him to return to drinking excessively AGAIN! And America had a Dry Drunk in the WH who feel off the wagon constantly over 8 years in the WH.

Care to post a source for that information.

[Hotrod]

Bush doesn't remember either b/c the pressures of being President caused him to return to drinking excessively AGAIN! And America had a Dry Drunk in the WH who feel off the wagon constantly over 8 years in the WH.

I can understand why some have issues with Bush but to just flat out make **** up is wrong.

[Rohirrim]

I don't know. He looked pretty drunk at the Chinese olympics. It took a couple of Secret Service guys to stand him up.

[Hotrod]

I don't know. He looked pretty drunk at the Chinese olympics. It took a couple of Secret Service guys to stand him up.

Your in over your head here Roh, he was obviously under the influence of cocaine.....you need a better grasp of your controlled substances and their tell tale signs sir.