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dragondawg
09-24-2009, 03:36 AM
Critics say Kyle Orton doesn't have a cannon, but dinking-and-dunking is the new standard in the NFL.
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post

NFL success used to be built on 3 yards and a cloud of dust.

Now the foundation is the 4-yard pass and hope it will bust.

The short passing game has become all the rage in the NFL.

More precisely, the NFL is about the really, really short passing game.

In this ever-evolving wave of receiver screens, hot routes and check-downs, the Broncos may have the quarterback prototype in Kyle Orton.

In contrast to his critics' complaints, Orton ranks third in the NFL in pass plays of at least 20 yards, fourth in average yards per completion and eighth in yards per attempt. Impressive production, considering Orton's average completion reaches the receiver 5.7 yards from the line of scrimmage.

"Not every pass has to be 50 yards in the air to turn into a big play," Orton said. "We'll certainly take them if they want to give them, but looking back on our first two games, we didn't have too many opportunities to really push it down the field. We're not going to try to make everybody happy and throw the ball down the field when it's not the smart thing to do."

Perhaps Orton should be judged not on how far he throws the ball, but where the official sets the ball after the play.

Orton knows how to generate a bomb from a flare. He has thrown for more yards per completion and attempt than his predecessor Jay Cutler, or New England's Tom Brady, who is the QB standard in the offensive system used by the Broncos.

Granted, an 87-yard deflection within a two-game period carries the same skewed effect on a stat sheet that a hole-in-one has on a golfer's scorecard entering the No. 3 tee box.

But Orton has had eight other 20-yard-plus pass plays.

"Kyle Orton, to me, got pigeonholed coming out of Chicago," said former quarterback Joe Theismann. "People didn't want to give him a lot of credit. . . . But he wins. And he knows how to make the big play. This game is about chunks of yards. Football is a game of big plays now."

That Orton is among the league leaders in big-play passes would suggest either his arm strength exceeds perception, or it's all relative in a dunk-and-dink-happy league.

There may be truth in both. Some of Orton's big gains have been more about the run after the point of completion or deflection, in the case of the game-winning, 87-yard touchdown play to Brandon Stokley in the season opener at Cincinnati. But there also was the 25-yard laser to Jabar Gaffney on Denver's first offensive play Sunday against Cleveland, and the 49-yard, fourth-quarter heave to Gaffney that set up a short, game-clinching touchdown.

"Kyle has a good arm," Gaffney said. "He can make those down-the-field throws. Sometimes, the defense is not going to let you get deep, so you have to check down underneath, but when its called, Kyle can make pretty much every throw."

The underneath throw, though, has become a staple in every offense.

"I think it's evolved into you seeing more quick screens rather than pound it up there every play," Stokley said. "You have a lot more space out there. If you make one guy miss, you can get the home run."

Another reason for the propensity of short passes is defenses are increasingly playing their safeties deeper in coverage.

"That's probably been a trend for the last two or three years," Orton said. "Really, it's because you have safeties with such incredible speed that if you put them back there, he can really make plays on the outside throws. And if the ball is going to be hanging up in the air a long time, he can certainly have enough range to go make those plays."

Consequently, the percentage of long-pass attempts has significantly diminished across the NFL, even if quarterbacks such as Orton still convert their share of big-play passes.

"Everybody wants to get the ball down the field," Orton said. "I'm no different. I feel like I can make those throws. But if they're not there, you can go from having a chance to gain a lot of yards to a chance to have a disaster happen on the play, too. So that's not very smart."

http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_13406734

watermock
09-24-2009, 03:52 AM
Just maybe playing the Bungles and Brownies had something to do with it...

Naw...

cutthemdown
09-24-2009, 04:59 AM
We will see soon enough mock. A win this week though and people will just say we haven't played anyone good. A loss and people will say see we told you Orton sucked, Broncos suck.

But all Broncos can do is play hard every game and see how it all turns out at end of yr.

For a team that isn't really considered a contender they sure are popular to talk about.

fontaine
09-24-2009, 05:41 AM
I'm ok with Orton's arm strength from what I saw the last game. He made a couple of sideline passes that were in the air for 20 yards or so and those are the toughest throws to make, so his arm strength is good enough.

I think he's gets targetted for it though because Jay being the previous QB has one of the strongest arms in the league.

If we had gone from Griese to Orton then there would be no issue with Orton's arm strength when his hand is injury free.

chadta
09-24-2009, 05:51 AM
"Everybody wants to get the ball down the field," Orton said. "I'm no different. I feel like I can make those throws. But if they're not there, you can go from having a chance to gain a lot of yards to a chance to have a disaster happen on the play, too. So that's not very smart."

this guy gets it, take what ya can, dont try to force it, he dosent have to win the game for us as long as he dosent lose it.

BroncoInSkinland
09-24-2009, 06:10 AM
We will see soon enough mock. A win this week though and people will just say we haven't played anyone good. A loss and people will say see we told you Orton sucked, Broncos suck.

Actually Raiders in Oakland is a tall order regardless. This is one of the rivalries that does funny things to teams. It happens in other divisions too. Local to me it is the Cowboys/Redskins game. No matter how bad the Skins may be or how good Dallas is, that game is not a given, it is a knockdown dragout brawl everytime. Same with us and the Raiders. We SHOULD win this game, but this one is definately more meaningful than the last two for many reasons.

All that having been said does it really suprise you that the two options are "we haven't played anyone good" or "we suck"? If the Chiefs went on a three game romp against the Browns, Bengals, and Raiders, and suddenly the national media moved to saying they were playoff bound for thier 3-0 record, what would you say?

The simple fact of the matter is we have played two bad (at least last year) teams and are lining up against another this week. Don't worry, some of the quality teams are coming right after that and then we will see where we really stand.

dbfan21
09-24-2009, 06:30 AM
We will see soon enough mock. A win this week though and people will just say we haven't played anyone good. A loss and people will say see we told you Orton sucked, Broncos suck.

But all Broncos can do is play hard every game and see how it all turns out at end of yr.

For a team that isn't really considered a contender they sure are popular to talk about.

Totally agree. Time will tell with this team. But I do think there is a lot to build on heading towards next year. If the Broncos can make steady improvements all year long, next year's club will certainly be considered a playoff contender.

I am enjoying some of the buzz that's surrounding the team....pretty refreshing considering the crap we endired in the offseason.

Mountain Bronco
09-24-2009, 12:06 PM
It is the 15 yard out to the sideline that Orton can't toss. Not many QB's can very well though.

Rabb
09-24-2009, 12:33 PM
I have a hard time calling the Bengals as bad as the Browns after they walked into GB and won like that

they may not be great, but we shut down a dynamic offense

Popps
09-24-2009, 01:11 PM
Just maybe playing the Bungles and Brownies had something to do with it...

Naw...

Poor guy. Those wins are tough on you, huh Mock?

Hang in there, buddy. The losses will come... and then you can pretend you were right.

Keep the "faith," buddy.

GO RAIDERS? Right?

bronco militia
09-24-2009, 01:13 PM
It is the 15 yard out to the sideline that Orton can't toss. Not many QB's can very well though.

lets be clear here...not many in college and high school football

Inkana7
09-24-2009, 01:18 PM
It is the 15 yard out to the sideline that Orton can't toss. Not many QB's can very well though.

I've seen him do it..

DBroncos4life
09-24-2009, 01:21 PM
No he leads the NFL in passes over 25 yards the writer of the article doesn't know anything.

Houshyamama
09-24-2009, 01:25 PM
It is the 15 yard out to the sideline that Orton can't toss. Not many QB's can very well though.

I saw him time one really well with Royal last game, if you time them right you don't have to have the world's strongest arm.

Popcorn Sutton
09-24-2009, 01:30 PM
Just maybe playing the Bungles and Brownies had something to do with it...

Naw...

You are just a big bundle of joy. :P

Smiling Assassin27
09-24-2009, 01:30 PM
this guy gets it, take what ya can, dont try to force it, he dosent have to win the game for us as long as he dosent lose it.

winner. the time you invite trouble is when you know it's a bad play but your ego tells you that you are one of 2 or 3 qb's in league history that can make that play and so you try it anyway. i prefer a qb who knows and abides by his own limitations to a guy who doesn't think he has any limitations.

orton is a less risk, less reward guy--the proper mentality for this offense. :thumbs:

Tombstone RJ
09-24-2009, 01:31 PM
Just maybe playing the Bungles and Brownies had something to do with it...

Naw...

Bengles are not a bad team, toolio.

McDenver
09-24-2009, 01:37 PM
I seem to remember a guy who used to be a master at taking what the defense gave him, he went by the name of Joe Montana. I am not saying that Orton is Montana, but I remember that Joe was not known as a 'big arm' QB and I certainly don't remember anyone giving ol' Joe any grief about having a noodle arm.

TailgateNut
09-24-2009, 01:40 PM
Toolio. Bawahaha.

Rohirrim
09-24-2009, 01:41 PM
I remember watching a couple of Orton's games when he was at Purdue. I thought he looked damn good. I wasn't at all upset with him coming here. So far, he looks like a good game manager who doesn't make stupid mistakes. His arm is better than advertised too. I'm okay wid it. ;D

JCMElway
09-24-2009, 01:47 PM
The only thing about Orton that bugs me is that he tends to lock onto one receiver without looking the DBs off. I wonder if he'll get better at that as he gets more comfortable with the system.

Popcorn Sutton
09-24-2009, 02:01 PM
The only thing about Orton that bugs me is that he tends to lock onto one receiver without looking the DBs off. I wonder if he'll get better at that as he gets more comfortable with the system.

Reminds me of our last QB...

Broncos4tw
09-24-2009, 02:07 PM
I agree that he is here to simply not lose game, not win them.

Which is nice during the year if the team performs well. But is less nice when in the playoffs and SB, when you face solid opponents that are shutting down aspects of your game, and your QB needs to notch it up and make some things happen.

There is a reason that most SB winning teams feature a franchise QB, and not your average joe QB who tries not to lose games.

Rabb
09-24-2009, 02:09 PM
I agree that he is here to simply not lose game, not win them.

Which is nice during the year if the team performs well. But is less nice when in the playoffs and SB, when you face solid opponents that are shutting down aspects of your game, and your QB needs to notch it up and make some things happen.

There is a reason that most SB winning teams feature a franchise QB, and not your average joe QB who tries not to lose games.

my lord

I think there is also a reason most super bowl winning teams also have a QB that is a total team guy, and they usually have some form of a defense to go with it

Dilfer might be the ultimate example

Archer81
09-24-2009, 04:54 PM
my lord

I think there is also a reason most super bowl winning teams also have a QB that is a total team guy, and they usually have some form of a defense to go with it

Dilfer might be the ultimate example


Brad Johnson, as well.

:Broncos:

barryr
09-24-2009, 05:37 PM
Only the bozos equate rocket arm QB's with greatness. Also, if didn't like the trading of Cutler, also seems to mean you must hate Orton and downgrade him at every chance. How stupid.

elsid13
09-24-2009, 06:33 PM
lets be clear here...not many in college and high school football


Actually most college and high school players don't make that throw because it is so hard to complete and the spread and other collegiate offense don't feature it. In the pros, most of the QB still struggle with it, especial if it to the opposite side line. QBs like Orton can make that throw if their feet are set and their timing is good, or the CB is playing in the wrong position. QBs like Cutler can still make that throw even when his feet aren't set, and CB is playing the in the right position. Even more impressive is Cutler can make that throw to the opposite side line when his pocket isn't clean or his feet aren't set. That is the difference in arm strength.

broncosteven
09-24-2009, 06:38 PM
I liked the 2nd pass to Gaffney, it was to the left side if I remember right on a skinny post patternthan Gaffeny beat his man by a step and the ball got there in stride.

People forget that all the QB's since Elway have had trouble hitting WR's in stride. I saw Manning hit the same route twice in the MNF game but on his right side.

Orton is about what I said he would be when we traded for him. I think he is great for this team rebuilding. I hope he plays well enough to command a contract. That means he had a great year.

ZONA
09-24-2009, 07:54 PM
Maybe I'm saying this because I'm tired and about to fall asleep but who gives a damn. Stop the run, pound the rock, use up the clock, don't turn the ball over and things will be fine.

Hogan11
09-24-2009, 07:58 PM
Only the bozos equate rocket arm QB's with greatness. Also, if didn't like the trading of Cutler, also seems to mean you must hate Orton and downgrade him at every chance. How stupid.

Some miss the absolutely thrilling rocket throws into triple coverage I guess

yerner
09-24-2009, 08:01 PM
orton blows.

elsid13
09-24-2009, 08:16 PM
orton blows.

Yes he does.

http://drunkathlete.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/kyle_orton_chicago_bears_3_drunk_pictures1.jpg

Popps
09-24-2009, 10:37 PM
Only the bozos equate rocket arm QB's with greatness. Also, if didn't like the trading of Cutler, also seems to mean you must hate Orton and downgrade him at every chance. How stupid.

Welcome to the Orange Mane.

:thumbsup:

Crushisback
09-25-2009, 12:43 AM
Honestly his arm strength doesn't matter. Can he throw it 45 yards, yes, 65 yards, no. In all reality you rarely see a guy complete a pass that trvels 65 in the air. He's more accurate than Crybaby ever was on the 30-40 yard pass which is way more important. This offense is going to begin to gel soon and when it does many people will change thier tune about Orton.

Crushisback
09-25-2009, 12:46 AM
Actually most college and high school players don't make that throw because it is so hard to complete and the spread and other collegiate offense don't feature it. In the pros, most of the QB still struggle with it, especial if it to the opposite side line. QBs like Orton can make that throw if their feet are set and their timing is good, or the CB is playing in the wrong position. QBs like Cutler can still make that throw even when his feet aren't set, and CB is playing the in the right position. Even more impressive is Cutler can make that throw to the opposite side line when his pocket isn't clean or his feet aren't set. That is the difference in arm strength.

Cutler can also make the tackle after that throw. That's what makes him a complete QB.:rofl:

rastaman
09-25-2009, 05:10 AM
It is the 15 yard out to the sideline that Orton can't toss. Not many QB's can very well though.

Dink-N-Dunk "Noodle Arm" Orton ain't leading the Broncos to any SB's anytime soon thats for sure. Hilarious!

rastaman
09-25-2009, 05:16 AM
Honestly his arm strength doesn't matter. Can he throw it 45 yards, yes, 65 yards, no. In all reality you rarely see a guy complete a pass that trvels 65 in the air. He's more accurate than Crybaby ever was on the 30-40 yard pass which is way more important. This offense is going to begin to gel soon and when it does many people will change thier tune about Orton.

Meh!......Orton is a stealth heart breaker! You'll see soon enough. Orton may not cry (as you say), but one thing he is, is a silent-below the radar mediocre QB who's goal is to milk his limited talent for as many starts possible, while enthusiastically excepting going back to his rightful place as a career back, while making as much money as possible. :~ohyah!:

Orton has limited talent.....but no one said he's stupid.;)

rastaman
09-25-2009, 05:18 AM
Cutler can also make the tackle after that throw. That's what makes him a complete QB.:rofl:

Orton is so freaking slow he wouldn't even try to make a tackle after he throws and interception.;D