PDA

View Full Version : orton 2nd in 25+ yard completions


tsiguy96
09-21-2009, 04:41 PM
after peyton manning, ahead of brees and rivers. thats hefty company right there. his QB rating is great and hes not turning the ball over. initially i didnt like what i was seeing, but when you look at his game as a whole, its pretty good, especially for this offense. just distribute the ball to the playmakers and let them do their job. i retract my start tom B statements for the time being!

Karenin
09-21-2009, 04:43 PM
But but he can't throw downfield>>?!!?!! Hurrrrr durrrrrrr hurrrrrrrr

Anaximines
09-21-2009, 04:52 PM
pretty shockingly good information

Popcorn Sutton
09-21-2009, 04:53 PM
That's pretty funny.







Use the Damn Shift Key!!!

Steve Prefontaine
09-21-2009, 04:56 PM
But but he can't throw downfield>>?!!?!! Hurrrrr durrrrrrr hurrrrrrrr

Cute, but again...25+ yard completions does not equate to throwing downfield.

Do you see why?

TheDave
09-21-2009, 04:56 PM
But but he can't throw downfield>>?!!?!! Hurrrrr durrrrrrr hurrrrrrrr

You may want to start watching the games again... all those "Long" completions were relatively short throws that the WR turned into long gains.

But... FWIW, the retarded "Durr Hurr" sounds were much more pleasant than your normal posts. :thumbs:

Spider
09-21-2009, 04:58 PM
after peyton manning, ahead of brees and rivers. thats hefty company right there. his QB rating is great and hes not turning the ball over. initially i didnt like what i was seeing, but when you look at his game as a whole, its pretty good, especially for this offense. just distribute the ball to the playmakers and let them do their job. i retract my start tom B statements for the time being!

thats just silly talk , everyone knows Cutler is a franchise QB and Orton sucks

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-21-2009, 05:07 PM
And once again, this offense wasn't designed to go deep down field. it was designed to give the playmakers a chance to -- ready? -- make plays! Get them the ball with space to run, and that's exactly what they're doing.

I'm going to withhold judgement on Orton's ability/arm until he takes the glove off. Should be this week. hopefully that makes his ball less wobbly and gives him a bit more zip.

FTR, it's a very different feeling to throw the ball with a glove than without. Just saying.

tsiguy96
09-21-2009, 05:09 PM
You may want to start watching the games again... all those "Long" completions were relatively short throws that the WR turned into long gains.


thats not a bad thing...his job is to get the ball to the guys who make the plays, and hes doing it. the recievers are better at their position than orton is at QB, i think we all agree on that, so all he has to do is get them the ball in open space and let them do what tehy do, ill take a 10 yard throw and 20 YAC instead of a 30 yard attempt downfield where completion % is lower.

orton has taken shots downfield (not 50 yards but 20-30 yards) too and has looked pretty good doing it however

Spider
09-21-2009, 05:10 PM
And once again, this offense wasn't designed to go deep down field. it was designed to give the playmakers a chance to -- ready? -- make plays! Get them the ball with space to run, and that's exactly what they're doing.

I'm going to withhold judgement on Orton's ability/arm until he takes the glove off. Should be this week. hopefully that makes his ball less wobbly and gives him a bit more zip.

FTR, it's a very different feeling to throw the ball with a glove than without. Just saying.

All that fancy smancy mumbo jumbo,make a play football talk .......... face it Cutler is a franchise ;D

spdirty
09-21-2009, 05:10 PM
Oh Boy! Now that we finally have a guy who has the arm strength to throw deep, no one can stop us!

Rock Chalk
09-21-2009, 05:12 PM
You may want to start watching the games again... all those "Long" completions were relatively short throws that the WR turned into long gains.

But... FWIW, the retarded "Durr Hurr" sounds were much more pleasant than your normal posts. :thumbs:

The offense isn't designed for a bunch of low % bombs (no matter who is QB, those are low % passes). However, Orton HAS thrown several passes 20-50 yards.

Im with tsiguy, Id rather go with the higher % pass in the short-intermediate range and get the 20+ YAC after it.

Spider
09-21-2009, 05:12 PM
Next thing you know Denvermooseguy will come in here and tell us Orton not turning the ball over is a bad thing cause if we sustain drives our defense will get rusty ;D

BMarsh615
09-21-2009, 05:33 PM
Oh Boy! Now that we finally have a guy who has the arm strength to throw deep, no one can stop us!

Start cheering for the Broncos or stop posting here.

TheDave
09-21-2009, 05:40 PM
The offense isn't designed for a bunch of low % bombs (no matter who is QB, those are low % passes). However, Orton HAS thrown several passes 20-50 yards.

Im with tsiguy, Id rather go with the higher % pass in the short-intermediate range and get the 20+ YAC after it.

Good lord people... My post in response to Karenin and his/her assumption that this proved that Orton could go down field at will... because he can't and we should all know that by now.

Now... I realize it very popular to pretend this offense isn't designed to go down field. Problem is they use the long ball in NE quite a bit. So if you ask me the reason we don't has more to do with out talent (both QB & WR's) than with it's design.

Trust me, at some point we will need to stretch the defense to some degree or we will continue to see 8 & 9 men fronts.

tsiguy96
09-21-2009, 05:42 PM
Good lord people... My post in response to Karenin and his/her assumption that this proved that Orton could go down field at will... because he can't and we should all know that by now.

Now... I realize it very popular to pretend this offense isn't designed to go down field. Problem is they use the long ball in NE quite a bit. So if you ask me the reason we don't has more to do with out talent (both QB & WR's) than with it's design.

Trust me, at some point we will need to stretch the defense to some degree or we will continue to see 8 & 9 men fronts.

"quite a bit" is an overstatement. they were talking about this during the pats game, the long ball is set up by using a ton of inside crossing and slant rights to bring in the defense, then hit the occasional bomb to moss (marshall) for a TD which hopefully spreads the defense back out. orton HAS thrown it long a few times.

Popcorn Sutton
09-21-2009, 05:45 PM
Good lord people... My post in response to Karenin and his/her assumption that this proved that Orton could go down field at will... because he can't and we should all know that by now.

Now... I realize it very popular to pretend this offense isn't designed to go down field. Problem is they use the long ball in NE quite a bit. So if you ask me the reason we don't has more to do with out talent (both QB & WR's) than with it's design.

Trust me, at some point we will need to stretch the defense to some degree or we will continue to see 8 & 9 men fronts.

Why do you continue to insist Orton cannot throw the ball down field?

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EE2CxDWm1sc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EE2CxDWm1sc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

Not to mention several balls he threw down field yesterday.

tsiguy96
09-21-2009, 05:47 PM
Wait ... you're saying he's thrown the 3rd most 25+ yard completions in the league?

I'm gonna have to see a link on that one, cowboy.

http://twitter.com/psmyth12/status/4150327066

TheDave
09-21-2009, 05:48 PM
"quite a bit" is an overstatement. they were talking about this during the pats game, the long ball is set up by using a ton of inside crossing and slant rights to bring in the defense, then hit the occasional bomb to moss (marshall) for a TD which hopefully spreads the defense back out. orton HAS thrown it long a few times.

Would you prefer the phrase "More than never"? Because so far through 6 games we have NEVER seen Orton do it.

At some point either we are going to figure out a way to go deep or we are going to need to figure out another way to get the safty out of the box. As of now the defenses are stacking to box with nothing to fear.

orinjkrush
09-21-2009, 05:49 PM
The GLOVE! The GLOVE!

The GLOVE!

wear the orange socks and the GLOVE!

tsiguy96
09-21-2009, 05:50 PM
Would you prefer the phrase "More than never"? Because so far through 6 games we have NEVER seen Orton do it.

At some point either we are going to figure out a way to go deep or we are going to need to figure out another way to get the safty out of the box. As of now the defenses are stacking to box with nothing to fear.

40+ yd bomb to marshall that went right between has hands ring a bell?

Popcorn Sutton
09-21-2009, 05:52 PM
Would you prefer the phrase "More than never"? Because so far through 6 games we have NEVER seen Orton do it.

At some point either we are going to figure out a way to go deep or we are going to need to figure out another way to get the safty out of the box. As of now the defenses are stacking to box with nothing to fear.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

He threw down field a few times yesterday.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/denver-broncos/09000d5d812c5e30/WK-2-Kyle-Orton-highlights

TheDave
09-21-2009, 05:52 PM
40+ yd bomb to marshall that went right between has hands ring a bell?

Oh, you mean the one that was under thrown by 10 yards?

BroncoBuff
09-21-2009, 05:53 PM
http://twitter.com/psmyth12/status/4150327066

Wow, okay. Doesn't seem like it, but guess it's true ^5

tsiguy96
09-21-2009, 05:59 PM
Oh, you mean the one that was under thrown by 10 yards?

no, the one that went literally directly between his hands. why you are complaining about us not chucking it deep i dont know, doing that lost us a lot of games last year. its a low percentage throw, mcdaniels knows that, you only do it when its available, dont force it or you look like cutler.

tsiguy96
09-21-2009, 05:59 PM
Wow, okay. Doesn't seem like it, but guess it's true ^5

cover letters :strong:

ill give you an ehug if you check em...

TheDave
09-21-2009, 06:03 PM
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

He threw down field a few times yesterday.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/denver-broncos/09000d5d812c5e30/WK-2-Kyle-Orton-highlights

Did you watch it?

He had one 30 yard out (which was a good throw)... All of his other "bombs" were of the 20 yard variety.

Listen folks, if you want to pretend that Orton and his arm are keeping the defenses honest your kidding yourselves. Now how much of it is his injured hand or our WR's not getting open or the scheme... I don't know.

But at some point we will have to find a way of making safties pay for crowding the line.

Now if you would all put away your foam horse heads and stop defending our new journeyman QB, we might be able to start having a football discussion again.

Popcorn Sutton
09-21-2009, 06:04 PM
Oh, you mean the one that was under thrown by 10 yards?

:kiddingme

You are delving into broncofan7 territory...

TheDave
09-21-2009, 06:05 PM
no, the one that went literally directly between his hands. why you are complaining about us not chucking it deep i dont know, doing that lost us a lot of games last year. its a low percentage throw, mcdaniels knows that, you only do it when its available, dont force it or you look like cutler.

Yeah, that one... re watch it, it was SEVERLY under thrown.

Popps
09-21-2009, 06:08 PM
You may want to start watching the games again... all those "Long" :

Yea... except that's not true. Happen to watch the game yesterday? Maybe you're the one who needs to pay more attention. You were probably too busy here trying to put the ****tiest spin on a good game that you could.

I love the logic around here, though. I guess an 15 yard throw with some YAC is no good. The ball has to go 25 yards in the air or people around here wad their ****ing panties up their asses.

Sort of like how a win around here isn't good enough for people. They'd rather lose as long as our QB throws 400 yards and 5 INTs.

Popcorn Sutton
09-21-2009, 06:11 PM
Did you watch it?

He had one 30 yard out (which was a good throw)... All of his other "bombs" were of the 20 yard variety.

Listen folks, if you want to pretend that Orton and his arm are keeping the defenses honest your kidding yourselves. Now how much of it is his injured hand or our WR's not getting open or the scheme... I don't know.

But at some point we will have to find a way of making safties pay for crowding the line.

Now if you would all put away your foam horse heads and stop defending our new journeyman QB, we might be able to start having a football discussion again.

OK, well you said NEVER in caps. Not to mention, I don't know if you ever paid attention or not but Cutler was notorious for under throwing "bombs."

God forbid he threw several nice 20 yard passes and a nice 30 yard pass. If that doesn't keep the safeties from crowding the line then I don't know what does.

Again, you've stated many times Kyle Orton can't throw deep passes. The You Tube video I posted clearly shows you are WRONG.

Popps
09-21-2009, 06:12 PM
:kiddingme

You are delving into broncofan7 territory...

He really is. He went from being a half-interesting poster to just being dog**** in one off-season.

Don't worry, he'll be happy when we chalk up our first loss.

We'll start to see a lot of faces that have been absent around here when we lose a game. Count on it. These are some bitter, sad people.

TheDave
09-21-2009, 06:12 PM
Yea... except that's not true. Happen to watch the game yesterday? Maybe you're the one that needs to watch the game. You were probably too busy here trying to put the ****tiest spin on a good game that you could.



Hey popps hows it going? You going to stick around for this discussion or is this just another drive by?

Now before you run off? WTF are you taklking about?

This thead is about Orton and the long ball... who is "trying to put the ****tiest spin on a good game"?

TheDave
09-21-2009, 06:14 PM
He really is. He went from being a half-interesting poster to just being dog**** in one off-season.



Oh the irony... :giggle:

orinjkrush
09-21-2009, 06:15 PM
Folks, Orton is only one letter away from Morton.

colonelbeef
09-21-2009, 06:17 PM
Hey popps hows it going? You going to stick around for this discussion or is this just another drive by?

Now before you run off? WTF are you taklking about?

This thead is about Orton and the long ball... who is "trying to put the ****tiest spin on a good game"?

Don't worry, Popps only has a certain amount of time daily to put down his pom poms and demonstrate his total lack of understanding as to what constitutes championship caliber QB play, he can't possibly have enough time in the day

TheDave
09-21-2009, 06:17 PM
OK, well you said NEVER in caps. Not to mention, I don't know if you ever paid attention or not but Cutler was notorious for under throwing "bombs."

God forbid he threw several nice 20 yard passes and a nice 30 yard pass. If that doesn't keep the safeties from crowding the line then I don't know what does.

Again, you've stated many times Kyle Orton can't throw deep passes. The You Tube video I posted clearly shows you are WRONG.

Is Orton a family member of yours? 'Cause you seem pretty defensive about me critiqing his lack of a long ball. Relax, he isn't throwing the long ball ggod enough or accurate enough no matter how many "videos" you post from his past.

... and I've never said he "can't" throw it deep. I've said he isn't and that is a major difference.

errand
09-21-2009, 06:19 PM
Cute, but again...25+ yard completions does not equate to throwing downfield.

Do you see why?

Louie Kelcher when asked about his 40 time once said 'I dunno, but hell...If I have to chase a guy 40 yards, i'm not gonna catch him anyways"

The point is who cares how he gets his 25 yard completions as long as he does. i look at it more as he's allowing his WR's to make big plays than he's got a big arm.

You guys are so in love with a strong arm and yet you seem to forget that the hall of fame is filled with guys who lacked the Elway cannon and the bus stations are filled with rocket armed losers.

Look at Kurt Warner....he's got an average arm, but he's got a quick release and he's generally hitting the open guy which is the bottom line. But there's more to it than that. Kurt is a team leader, he's a positive presence in the locker room, and acts like a professional.

Kyle's arm isn't one of the 8 wonders of the world, but it's good enough to get the job done.

UberBroncoMan
09-21-2009, 06:22 PM
But but he can't throw downfield>>?!!?!! Hurrrrr durrrrrrr hurrrrrrrr

He can't... that's why YAC is a part of that stat, and YAC is something our team is quite good at.

Popps
09-21-2009, 06:23 PM
Don't worry, Popps only has a certain amount of time daily to put down his pom poms and demonstrate his total lack of understanding as to what constitutes championship caliber QB play, he can't possibly have enough time in the day

Poor Colon-beef. I know it's hard, buddy... watching the team win.

You, Dave and the widows have had a tough couple of weeks.

KEEP YOUR HEAD UP, though! (Or, down.) Stay miserable! Your first loss is going to come. Hang in there, buddy. Try spamming the board harder. Maybe you and Dave can work out some sort of buddy-system to spam non-stop to get the loss-Mojo going.

I'm not going to take offense by your posts, bro. I know these are tough times. Wins are tough for all widows.

Your day in the sun is coming. We'll eventually lose, and you guys can have a party around here.


Hang in there, buddy.


:thumbs:

Popcorn Sutton
09-21-2009, 06:25 PM
Is Orton a family member of yours? 'Cause you seem pretty defensive about me critiqing his lack of a long ball. Relax, he isn't throwing the long ball ggod enough or accurate enough no matter how many "videos" you post from his past.

... and I've never said he "can't" throw it deep. I've said he isn't and that is a major difference.

You have stated many times he can't throw it deep. You were like a broken record during the preseason.

Steve Prefontaine
09-21-2009, 06:30 PM
Louie Kelcher when asked about his 40 time once said 'I dunno, but hell...If I have to chase a guy 40 yards, i'm not gonna catch him anyways"

The point is who cares how he gets his 25 yard completions as long as he does. i look at it more as he's allowing his WR's to make big plays than he's got a big arm.

You guys are so in love with a strong arm and yet you seem to forget that the hall of fame is filled with guys who lacked the Elway cannon and the bus stations are filled with rocket armed losers.

Look at Kurt Warner....he's got an average arm, but he's got a quick release and he's generally hitting the open guy which is the bottom line. But there's more to it than that. Kurt is a team leader, he's a positive presence in the locker room, and acts like a professional.

Kyle's arm isn't one of the 8 wonders of the world, but it's good enough to get the job done.

Jesus. Massive reading comprehension failure ITT. Do you agree with Karenin that having a lot of long completions (includes YAC) means that you are a good "downfield" passer?

TheDave
09-21-2009, 06:41 PM
You have stated many times he can't throw it deep. You were like a broken record during the preseason.

Show me where I've said that... Until preseason I actually was one of the ones defending ortons' arm strength. Once preseason came around I have simply stated he "Does not" (that is very different than "He can not"

See this is the problem some of you are so entrenched in being a "Good fan" that any criticism of the team or a player is viewed as heresy.

Don't go popps on us BrewCrew... we discuss football around here and sometimes that includes both positives and negatives.

orinjkrush
09-21-2009, 06:47 PM
Orton's arm strength doesn't seem as much an impediment as his decision making time.

Won't that improve over time? Or does his play at Chicago invalidate that?

BroncoBuff
09-21-2009, 06:48 PM
Oh the irony... :giggle:

ROFL!


DRY baby!

TheDave
09-21-2009, 06:49 PM
Poor Colon-beef. I know it's hard, buddy... watching the team win.

You, Dave and the widows have had a tough couple of weeks.



You really have become pathetic... That's too bad.

cutthemdown
09-21-2009, 06:50 PM
after peyton manning, ahead of brees and rivers. thats hefty company right there. his QB rating is great and hes not turning the ball over. initially i didnt like what i was seeing, but when you look at his game as a whole, its pretty good, especially for this offense. just distribute the ball to the playmakers and let them do their job. i retract my start tom B statements for the time being!

It's good that you can admit you were wrong. To tell you the truth the people who were saying that lost alot of respect just because anyone who has watched football for awhile knows you can't go by one preseason game. Orton has over 20 wins in the NFL, Brandstater not even a snap yet. Anyone who called for him to start has to realize we would be 0-2 right now. The chances of him not turning ball over really slim.

People were melting down, the season could still get really rough, so just remember that you aren't smarter then the coach even though you might think you are.

He knows more about football and evaluating players then you and I will ever hope to possess.

Spider
09-21-2009, 06:53 PM
:rofl: I love this thread ............

BroncoBuff
09-21-2009, 06:55 PM
Poor Colon-beef. I know it's hard, buddy... watching the team win.

You, Dave and the widows have had a tough couple of weeks.

KEEP YOUR HEAD UP, though! (Or, down.) Stay miserable! Your first loss is going to come. Hang in there, buddy. Try spamming the board harder. Maybe you and Dave can work out some sort of buddy-system to spam non-stop to get the loss-Mojo going.

I'm not going to take offense by your posts, bro. I know these are tough times. Wins are tough for all widows.

Your day in the sun is coming. We'll eventually lose, and you guys can have a party around here.

Hang in there, buddy.

:thumbs:

What kinds of insecurities must exist in a mind that demands you agree with him, or else be subject to nonsensical insults thrown like baboon feces on a wall?

Popps seriously, what did Colonel say that led you to the dubious conclusion he wants the Broncos to lose? You are constantly painting others as wanting us to lose, where do you get that? How do you come to that conclusion?

Rulon Velvet Jones
09-21-2009, 06:58 PM
I'm still trying to figure out how a "severely" underthrown ball can go through someone's hands.

broncofan7
09-21-2009, 06:59 PM
LOL--just like Orton 'lead' the Bears to a shootout win against the Vikings last year in Soldier field! Nevermind the D/ST TD's in that game --nor the YAC on the 2009 Broncos :rofl: You sheep NEVER cease to amaze me...Wait until Dallas scores in the mid 20's on us and Orton is forced to actually MAKE CONSISTENT PLAYS ---only then will you all be forced to recognize your folly..........some people are lions--some are sheep--I read a lot a 'Baaaaaahhhh'on this board lately--Am I on Broncomania?

TheDave
09-21-2009, 06:59 PM
What kinds of insecurities must exist in a mind that demands you agree with him, or else be subject to nonsensical insults thrown like baboon feces on a wall?

Popps seriously, what did Colonel say that led you to the dubious conclusion he wants the Broncos to lose? You are constantly painting others as wanting us to lose, where do you get that? How do you come to that conclusion?

He won't answer you... For some reason the guy has been reduced to a drive by poster. He comes in to threads calls a couple of people names and runs off. He's like a less charismatic form of Mock. ;D

It is what it is... I guess

broncofan7
09-21-2009, 07:01 PM
Show me where I've said that... Until preseason I actually was one of the ones defending ortons' arm strength. Once preseason came around I have simply stated he "Does not" (that is very different than "He can not"

See this is the problem some of you are so entrenched in being a "Good fan" that any criticism of the team or a player is viewed as heresy.

Don't go popps on us BrewCrew... we discuss football around here and sometimes that includes both positives and negatives.

:rofl:

Come on--DRINK THE KOOL AID!

BroncoBuff
09-21-2009, 07:04 PM
He won't answer you... For some reason the guy has been reduced to a drive by poster. He comes in to threads calls a couple of people names and runs off. He's like a less charismatic form of Mock. ;D

It is what it is... I guess

LOL ... he has me on ignore, or so I'm told.

TheDave
09-21-2009, 07:04 PM
I'm still trying to figure out how a "severely" underthrown ball can go through someone's hands.

Watch it and you will understand...

Punisher
09-21-2009, 07:05 PM
Fear the NeckBeard!

TheDave
09-21-2009, 07:06 PM
LOL ... he has me on ignore, or so I'm told.

Hilarious! So that's whats going on.

YES my life is complete... I have finally made someones iggy list.

broncofan7
09-21-2009, 07:10 PM
Fear the NeckBeard!

I do--I fear for what he is doing to our chances on winning the division with his lack of mobility and arm strength.....our Defense is playing off the charts and we still needed a MIRACLE to not be 1-1--and how many TD's does he have minus that MIRACLE? UNO, UN, ONE--in this pass happy offense--that is inexcusable--BUT BUT BUT--he hasn't thrown any interceptions! STFU--we all know what a REAL QB looks like--and it is not a noodle armed , lead footed beatnik from Purdue--now if he had a mole on his face and his last name was Brees--we'd have something....Who knew our D would be THIS good--what a shame it will be to waste it with this stiff--amazing how things change in only 1 season!

Popcorn Sutton
09-21-2009, 07:11 PM
Watch it and you will understand...

Does anybody have an online version of this play?

elsid13
09-21-2009, 07:12 PM
OK, well you said NEVER in caps. Not to mention, I don't know if you ever paid attention or not but Cutler was notorious for under throwing "bombs."

God forbid he threw several nice 20 yard passes and a nice 30 yard pass. If that doesn't keep the safeties from crowding the line then I don't know what does.

Again, you've stated many times Kyle Orton can't throw deep passes. The You Tube video I posted clearly shows you are WRONG.

Actually if you watched and listened to the game yesterday you would have know that Ryan had his defense in Cover 0 most of the second half. That means that he left his corners one on one with no deep help. That what Ryan thought about threat from Orton throwing deep in this system.

Popcorn Sutton
09-21-2009, 07:15 PM
Actually if you watched and listened to the game yesterday you would have know that Ryan had his defense in Cover 0 most of the second half. That means that he left his corners one on one with no deep help. That what Ryan thought about threat from Orton throwing deep in this system.

Did ya happen to see the passing stats for the second half?

BlaK-Argentina
09-21-2009, 07:16 PM
Actually if you watched and listened to the game yesterday you would have know that Ryan had his defense in Cover 0 most of the second half. That means that he left his corners one on one with no deep help. That what Ryan thought about threat from Orton throwing deep in this system.

Well we still ran for an assload of yards and Orton made plays when he had to so I'm ok with that. WHO CARES if Orton can't throw deep? (and I'm sure he can) Cutler SUCKED at it BTW... he threw several deep balls a game and didn't complete **** and turned it over more often than not.

elsid13
09-21-2009, 07:17 PM
BTW arm strength in the NFL is not about throwing the ball deep. Throwing a ball deep is more a product of your release and the arc then arm strength. Arm Strength in the NFL is about the ability to throw a deep out to the other side of the field and to move back and still throw an accurate pass with force when your feet are not set. The latter is important because it give a QB time to let a play develop even when his line isn't perfect.

BroncoBuff
09-21-2009, 07:18 PM
Hilarious! So that's whats going on.

YES my life is complete... I have finally made someones iggy list.

Congratulations! :notworthy

I fell out of favor one night a few months ago. He was angrily throwing out the **** words at anybody who said anything nice about Jay, over and over with the ****ing ****er and the "c" word again and again (which is majorly wrong I think). So I went to all his posts and wherever he posted crap like that (and it was a lot) I lit in on him, warning "you're gonna go broke buying new keyboards the way you're wearing that '8' key down to a nub!" Talk about dry.

I think I understand now why he's so angry ... I think it's overcompensation. He might just love Jay and Mike more than anybody on here. It's quite similar to a Senator Larry Craig dynamic ... Craig is a closeted gay, but in public he rails against gay rights and angrily denounces gay marriage. That would explain Popps' over-angry and condescending, insulting approach. He's a closeted Jay/Mike fan, and he feels ashamed. So he LOUDLY denounce all who like them, lest he himself be discovered :~ohyah!:

TheDave
09-21-2009, 07:19 PM
Does anybody have an online version of this play?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d8129a63f/NFL-GameDay-Broncos-vs-Bengals-highlights

BlaK-Argentina
09-21-2009, 07:21 PM
BTW arm strength in the NFL is not about throwing the ball deep. Throwing a ball deep is more a product of your release and the arc then arm strength. Arm Strength in the NFL is about the ability to throw a deep out to the other side of the field and to move back and still throw an accurate pass with force when your feet are not set. The latter is important because it give a QB time to let a play develop even when his line isn't perfect.

THAT I can understand being concerned about. I'm not sure Orton can do all that but we'll see.

People complaining about him not throwing it 60 yds though... well, whatever.

elsid13
09-21-2009, 07:22 PM
Did ya happen to see the passing stats for the second half?

I watched the game, beside the one nice pass to Gaffeny on one on one coverage (where the Cleveland DB played him wrong) there weren't any deep balls. When you have team putting 8 to 9 guys in the box to stop the run and good o line holding/stopping poor pass rush, a QB in the league should be able produce. It one game against a bad team, we won but let not pretend it anything more then that. This offense is struggling in particular the passing attack, to say other wise is missing the big picture.

elsid13
09-21-2009, 07:25 PM
THAT I can understand being concerned about. I'm not sure Orton can do all that but we'll see.

People complaining about him not throwing it 60 yds though... well, whatever.

He can not, there were two pass yesterday when he under threw Royal and Scheffer on outs and Denver was lucky Cleveland DBs suck. As more and more tape is assembled on this offense, DC are going to force him to make those throws to be successful as the take away the crossing patterns and crowd the middle of the field.

Popcorn Sutton
09-21-2009, 07:26 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d8129a63f/NFL-GameDay-Broncos-vs-Bengals-highlights

Wow, I thought you said it was under thrown by 10 yards?

BlaK-Argentina
09-21-2009, 07:26 PM
He can not, there were two pass yesterday when he under threw Royal and Scheffer on outs and Denver was lucky Cleveland DBs suck. As more and more tape is assembled on this offense, DC are going to force him to make those throws to be successful as the take away the crossing patterns and crowd the middle of the field.

I'll wait to see how he does when the glove comes off and he's fully recovered.

TheDave
09-21-2009, 07:27 PM
Wow, I thought you said it was under thrown by 10 yards?

More like 5... my mistake.

Popcorn Sutton
09-21-2009, 07:28 PM
More like 5... my mistake.

Wrong again. Regardless, it shows you can't evaluate Orton with a clear mind.

TheDave
09-21-2009, 07:31 PM
Wrong again. Regardless, it shows you can't evaluate Orton with a clear mind.

Yeah, cause hitting him in stride (an additional 5+ yards) would of sucked...

Seriously, are you trying to tell me that ball wasn't under thrown?

broncswin
09-21-2009, 07:32 PM
Did you watch it?

He had one 30 yard out (which was a good throw)... All of his other "bombs" were of the 20 yard variety.

Listen folks, if you want to pretend that Orton and his arm are keeping the defenses honest your kidding yourselves. Now how much of it is his injured hand or our WR's not getting open or the scheme... I don't know.

But at some point we will have to find a way of making safties pay for crowding the line.

Now if you would all put away your foam horse heads and stop defending our new journeyman QB, we might be able to start having a football discussion again.


That goes both ways bro

TheDave
09-21-2009, 07:34 PM
That goes both ways bro

By all means show me where i'm being bias?

broncswin
09-21-2009, 07:41 PM
By all means show me where i'm being bias?

Man, every post on Orton is to bash him, the guy is doing some good things out there. No he doesn't have the strongest arm in the league, but he also doesn't throw into traffic often. How many picks has the guy thrown this year? Sure he hasn't gone deep alot, and he does lock on to his wr's right now. How much of that is because of a new scheme, IDK. He also looked good on his third down conversions, sure it was the lowly Browns that we should beat, but if you remember, we played teams we should have beat down the strecht last year. So don't act like your not one sided when it comes to Orton, because everyone on the board sees it.8')

broncofan7
09-21-2009, 07:46 PM
Wrong again. Regardless, it shows you can't evaluate Orton with a clear mind.

HAHA! ohhhh...the Irony! Kyle Orton is a backup QB--period-and he isn't even the best backup QB on our team. he is slow in his reads--lead footed and noodle armed--he has one legitimate TD pass this season in 64 attempts! ONE!!! Orton is only hitting on 55% of his passes!


--Shaun Hill has more TD's on less attempts than does Orton.
---Brodie Croyle has 2 TDs in 24 attempts!

TheDave
09-21-2009, 07:47 PM
Man, every post on Orton is to bash him, the guy is doing some good things out there. No he doesn't have the strongest arm in the league, but he also doesn't throw into traffic often. How many picks has the guy thrown this year? Sure he hasn't gone deep alot, and he does lock on to his wr's right now. How much of that is because of a new scheme, IDK. He also looked good on his third down conversions, sure it was the lowly Browns that we should beat, but if you remember, we played teams we should have beat down the strecht last year. So don't act like your not one sided when it comes to Orton, because everyone on the board sees it.8')

Seriously bro, Go back to Broncomania where everything is sunshine and roses.

This thread is about Orton and the Deep pass... a subject where he deserves some criticism. It's not about his game management or his interception % or anything else.

Try to stay on topic... or by all means start your own thread about his game management and see if I'm negative about it.

Popcorn Sutton
09-21-2009, 07:47 PM
Yeah, cause hitting him in stride (an additional 5+ yards) would of sucked...

Seriously, are you trying to tell me that ball wasn't under thrown?

Nope. I'm just trying to help you understand why people like myself have a hard time taking your posts serious. The ball was probably a yard or so under-thrown. The comments like you made earlier saying it was 10 yards under-thrown and the countless comments about how he couldn't throw the ball down field during the pre-season, so on and so forth. As much as Popps spends time hating on Cutler you've met him toe-to-toe with Kyle Orton. You rarely post anything about Orton that isn't laced with preconceived hatred and bias.

Now is where you send another insult my way...

Cito Pelon
09-21-2009, 07:50 PM
Good lord people... My post in response to Karenin and his/her assumption that this proved that Orton could go down field at will... because he can't and we should all know that by now.

Now... I realize it very popular to pretend this offense isn't designed to go down field. Problem is they use the long ball in NE quite a bit. So if you ask me the reason we don't has more to do with out talent (both QB & WR's) than with it's design.

Trust me, at some point we will need to stretch the defense to some degree or we will continue to see 8 & 9 men fronts.

Dave, I don't know what to tell you. When an O racks up 449 total yards, 25 first downs, 27 points, 74 O plays, that's an offensive clinic in the NFL. The stats don't lie.

broncswin
09-21-2009, 07:51 PM
seriously bro, go back to broncomania where everything is sunshine and roses.

This thread is about orton and the deep pass... A subject where he deserves some criticism. It's not about his game management or his interception % or anything else.

Try to stay on topic... Or by all means start your own thread about his game management and see if i'm negative about it.

zzz...

Popcorn Sutton
09-21-2009, 07:53 PM
HAHA! ohhhh...the Irony! Kyle Orton is a backup QB--period-and he isn't even the best backup QB on our team. he is slow in his reads--lead footed and noodle armed--he has one legitimate TD pass this season in 64 attempts! ONE!!! Orton is only hitting on 55% of his passes!


--Shaun Hill has more TD's on less attempts than does Orton.
---Brodie Croyle has 2 TDs in 24 attempts!

Hey, do yourself a favor and search for my posts. You will find where I've also been critical of him. You had him marked long before he ever saw the field and you can do nothing but post over the top comments and cherry pick stats from two NFL games. I see you didn't post the fact that the Broncos offense is currently ranked 7th in the NFL. Yep, 7th. Remember our little discussion the other day. I'll take one from your book. Are they ranked 7th or not?

Popcorn Sutton
09-21-2009, 08:10 PM
As much as I'd like to carry on tonight fellas I have to run and feed the kid and get my arse into bed.

As I've stated many times. Orton is playing very tentative and looks jumpy in the pocket. He and the receivers look to be out of sync but these things can be worked on... why not tone down the rhetoric, cut back on the constant insults and try to bring the good mojo his way?

broncofan7, no idea why you are convinced that Chris Simms is the answer. I've tried to get you to offer an actual explanation several times and please make sure it's something other than how he looked in two quarters vs. the San Fran 2nd and 3rd teamers. Have you seen the career stats for Orton and Simms? They couldn't be more identical.

Spider
09-21-2009, 08:12 PM
By all means show me where i'm being bias?

LOL .........you expect me to count that high ?;D

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-21-2009, 08:15 PM
Good lord people... My post in response to Karenin and his/her assumption that this proved that Orton could go down field at will... because he can't and we should all know that by now.

Now... I realize it very popular to pretend this offense isn't designed to go down field. Problem is they use the long ball in NE quite a bit. So if you ask me the reason we don't has more to do with out talent (both QB & WR's) than with it's design.

Trust me, at some point we will need to stretch the defense to some degree or we will continue to see 8 & 9 men fronts.

Actually, it's not designed to go downfield. "BUT OMGz Y DID NE DO SO MUCH DOWNFIELD HUH LOLZ?" Because, they had the best downfield receiver in the game, and when you have the best downfield receiver in the game, you go downfield.

Does that make sense? Adjusting the game plan to fit the personnel? That's just crazy talk! Nobody ever does that!

Popcorn Sutton
09-21-2009, 08:15 PM
By all means show me where i'm being bias?

I'm working on it... :approve:

Hamrob
09-21-2009, 08:16 PM
Did you watch it?

He had one 30 yard out (which was a good throw)... All of his other "bombs" were of the 20 yard variety.

Listen folks, if you want to pretend that Orton and his arm are keeping the defenses honest your kidding yourselves. Now how much of it is his injured hand or our WR's not getting open or the scheme... I don't know.

But at some point we will have to find a way of making safties pay for crowding the line.

Now if you would all put away your foam horse heads and stop defending our new journeyman QB, we might be able to start having a football discussion again.EXACTLY!

Let's see where we're at in 6-weeks and then let's see if Kyle Orton is the end all. I'm crossing my fingers...but I don't see it.

And, that's with 3 gimme games to start the year out. Let's see what are record is at the half way mark and then let's see how good Orton has been over that period of time.

Hamrob
09-21-2009, 08:19 PM
Dave, I don't know what to tell you. When an O racks up 449 total yards, 25 first downs, 27 points, 74 O plays, that's an offensive clinic in the NFL. The stats don't lie. I have two words for you bro:

CLEVELAND BROWNS!

Cito Pelon
09-21-2009, 08:19 PM
Would you prefer the phrase "More than never"? Because so far through 6 games we have NEVER seen Orton do it.

At some point either we are going to figure out a way to go deep or we are going to need to figure out another way to get the safty out of the box. As of now the defenses are stacking to box with nothing to fear.

Dave, please, NEVER? I've seen Orton go deep three times in the first two games. I guess the bottom line is 449 total yards, 25 first downs, 74 O plays, 27 points.

But, you're gonna find a way to bag on Orton all year, yes?

TheDave
09-21-2009, 08:20 PM
Actually, it's not designed to go downfield. "BUT OMGz Y DID NE DO SO MUCH DOWNFIELD HUH LOLZ?" Because, they had the best downfield receiver in the game, and when you have the best downfield receiver in the game, you go downfield.

Does that make sense? Adjusting the game plan to fit the personnel? That's just crazy talk! Nobody ever does that!

I think both eddie and Brandon can get down field. Maybe not as much as Moss, but a hell of a lot more than we do now.... don't you?

baja
09-21-2009, 08:26 PM
LOL--just like Orton 'lead' the Bears to a shootout win against the Vikings last year in Soldier field! Nevermind the D/ST TD's in that game --nor the YAC on the 2009 Broncos :rofl: You sheep NEVER cease to amaze me...Wait until Dallas scores in the mid 20's on us and Orton is forced to actually MAKE CONSISTENT PLAYS ---only then will you all be forced to recognize your folly..........some people are lions--some are sheep--I read a lot a 'Baaaaaahhhh'on this board lately--<b>Am I on Broncomania?

We were thinking something a lot stronger something that makes you delusional.

cutthemdown
09-21-2009, 08:27 PM
I do--I fear for what he is doing to our chances on winning the division with his lack of mobility and arm strength.....our Defense is playing off the charts and we still needed a MIRACLE to not be 1-1--and how many TD's does he have minus that MIRACLE? UNO, UN, ONE--in this pass happy offense--that is inexcusable--BUT BUT BUT--he hasn't thrown any interceptions! STFU--we all know what a REAL QB looks like--and it is not a noodle armed , lead footed beatnik from Purdue--now if he had a mole on his face and his last name was Brees--we'd have something....Who knew our D would be THIS good--what a shame it will be to waste it with this stiff--amazing how things change in only 1 season!

So Orton gets no benefit of the doubt that his finger may have bothered him first game?

Or do you have a problem with 250 yrds and 1 td as a stat line?

I will take 16-20 tds and 3-4 int, over 30 tds and 15 int any day. There will be days that he throws more tds, days he doesn't, all that matters is that he scores more then the other team and protects the ball.

As running game broke open Orton started hitting stuff deeper. There was nothing noodle armed about that throw to Gaffney. It had good velocity and made it there in plenty of time.

I realize you want to be right. But the defense isn't as good as you think, and Orton isn't as bad.

You are so far off in your football takes its humorous to watch you try and defend yourself to people who obviously have been watching longer then you.

baja
09-21-2009, 08:30 PM
Hilarious! So that's whats going on.

YES my life is complete... I have finally made someones iggy list.

you can not see this post because you have the poster on ignore.

DBroncos4life
09-21-2009, 08:36 PM
I'm sure Orton will ride off into the sunset like our last three QB's.

Cito Pelon
09-21-2009, 09:10 PM
Can I expert-jack this thread? I'm watching Trent Dilfer and Matt Millen analyze the NFL right now on ESPN. I don't know how to make that believable. Maybe Rusty has a gif that makes a thousand words.

Mr.Meanie
09-21-2009, 09:23 PM
Man some of you guys sound like idiot Philly/Chicago fans. Hate hate hate even when you're winning and your team is doing good things.

I always kind of took pride in Denver fans that they don't blindly hate on some of their team no matter how well they played. Orton was hated relentlessly, and booed almost ever game, even as he was winning a lot of games with Chicago.

Sad to see that crap mentality has seeped into Broncos fans.

tsiguy96
09-21-2009, 09:28 PM
Man some of you guys sound like idiot Philly/Chicago fans. Hate hate hate even when you're winning and your team is doing good things.

I always kind of took pride in Denver fans that they don't blindly hate on some of their team no matter how well they played. Orton was hated relentlessly, and booed almost ever game, even as he was winning a lot of games with Chicago.

Sad to see that crap mentality has seeped into Broncos fans.

16-2 home record now for orton right?

wandlc
09-21-2009, 09:49 PM
He threw 5 such passes against the Browns number 31 ranked pass defense and 1 against the Bengals, the tip to Stokley is number 7. His "deep throw" when needed against the Bengals didn't look that good, we just got really lucky on that tip. Let's see where he is after the 8th game.

Popps
09-21-2009, 10:02 PM
Seriously bro, Go back to Broncomania where everything is sunshine and roses. .

You're a ***in' joke, dude.

Again, PLENTY of people discuss positive and negative aspects of the team regularly. We've had multiple analytical threads going on in the past few days alone.

You're just negative 24/7, and people are tired of your act. You have an agenda that calls for this team to fail, and you twist every story to fit that agenda.

Thus, people are calling you out. It's not them... it's you.

DBroncos4life
09-21-2009, 10:08 PM
You're a ***in' joke, dude.

Again, PLENTY of people discuss positive and negative aspects of the team regularly. We've had multiple analytical threads going on in the past few days alone.

You're just negative 24/7, and people are tired of your act. You have an agenda that calls for this team to fail, and you twist every story to fit that agenda.

Thus, people are calling you out. It's not them... it's you.

Is your monitor mirrored?

TheDave
09-21-2009, 10:12 PM
You're a ***in' joke, dude.

Again, PLENTY of people discuss positive and negative aspects of the team regularly. We've had multiple analytical threads going on in the past few days alone.

You're just negative 24/7, and people are tired of your act. You have an agenda that calls for this team to fail, and you twist every story to fit that agenda.

Thus, people are calling you out. It's not them... it's you.

Well to be honest I'm a little disapointed that you hadn't put me on your iggy list...

Though the irony of you calling someone negative almost makes up for it.

Like I've said Popps all you have these days is jumping in a thread and throwing around insults. Take this one for example, you've got 5 or so posts in it and you haven't even bothered to discuss the topic. Why don't you do us all a favor... stop b****ing about everyone else and and try adding to one of these "anylitical threads"...

Broncos4tw
09-21-2009, 10:15 PM
Man, every post on Orton is to bash him

If someone creates a ludicrous thread like this, it deserves responses. Orton's throws are predominantly short, his receivers are making things happen. He has had a few ok deeper throws, but they have ALL been to wide open receivers. I've not seen a single pass that made me go "oh crap.. that was awesome!" Can you honestly say you have seen passes by him, that made you jump up and shout because they were just that good?

C'mon.. quit trying to make him more than he is. He is what he is. He is "stable." He makes safe throws. That's it. He hasn't made a single deep pass, sideline pass, bullet or touch pass that made me feel like he was something special. Elway did that so often, it was commonplace. So do many franchise QBs. Even Cutler in every game, makes at least a couple passes that make you raise your eyebrows. The speed, accuracy, and daring to try to make these passes is what makes a franchise QB.

Orton is an average QB. Quit trying to make him into something he isn't. Starting a thread to try and "prove" he is amazing because of his over 25 yard passes is laughable. They were not.

In fact, I'll be surprised if he doesn't get one or more receivers hurt this year. His overthrown balls have already left a couple receivers out to dry, where they have got hammered. But no... don't mention that.. obviously we have a probowl QB who is the master of 25+ yard passes in the NFL!

He is AVERAGE. The day he is replaced won't be too soon for me. Because in the end, playoffs and SB is about a solid team with a solid QB, 9 times out of 10. He will be exposed when it matters.

DBroncos4life
09-21-2009, 10:20 PM
Well to be honest I'm a little disapointed that you hadn't put me on your iggy list...

Though the irony of you calling someone negative almost makes up for it.

Like I've said Popps all you have these days is jumping in a thread and throwing around insults. Take this one for example, you've got 5 or so posts in it and you haven't even bothered to discuss the topic. Why don't you do us all a favor... stop b****ing about everyone else and and try adding to one of these "anylitical threads"...

He is becoming a cock bag. It should be expected though at least us winning makes up for his gay ass I told you so in every thread. Its week two lots off football left.

Popps
09-21-2009, 10:28 PM
He is becoming a cock bag. It should be expected though at least us winning makes up for his gay ass I told you so in every thread. Its week two lots off football left.

:spit:

Wow, you b#tches are getting testy.

Pretty funny. Even funnier watching you suddenly take on the... "there's a lot of football to be played" routine.

It's an almost childlike 180 from you and your fellow widow's prior guarantees that we'd be dog**** all season long.

NOW, suddenly... we're supposed to wait and see what happens, huh?

WOW! What a concept. You mean, in other words... we should do the same thing I said we should have been doing all along, and judging this team on what they do, not on our imaginations?

What a novel idea!

Now, I'm 100% sure that if we would have gotten blown out the first two games... you and your man-lover Dave would have been right here to remind us how patient we should have been, right? If we were 0-2, you and Dave would have kept it all in perspective, huh? You wouldn't have bagged on the coach and ownership, would you have? NAAAAHHH!!!

If we started out ****ty... you widows would have been JUST as even-minded about the whole thing, and said... "hey, don't be to quick to call us a poor team, there is a lot of football to be played!"

:rofl:

Yea, NOW let's sit back and see what's going to happen... now that we're 2-0. A couple of weeks ago, the franchise was set back 50 years.

You idiots can't make up your minds, can you.

Keep twisting, guys. We'll eventually lose some games, and then you'll have your day in the sun.

Cito Pelon
09-21-2009, 11:40 PM
Well to be honest I'm a little disapointed that you hadn't put me on your iggy list...

Though the irony of you calling someone negative almost makes up for it.

Like I've said Popps all you have these days is jumping in a thread and throwing around insults. Take this one for example, you've got 5 or so posts in it and you haven't even bothered to discuss the topic. Why don't you do us all a favor... stop b****ing about everyone else and and try adding to one of these "anylitical threads"...

Dave, please. All of your 'analytical' posts since January have been sneering at the Broncos. So don't get holier than thou. As many have said, we see through it. Too bad you won't shut up is basically what we all think.

Cito Pelon
09-21-2009, 11:52 PM
He is becoming a cock bag. It should be expected though at least us winning makes up for his gay ass I told you so in every thread. Its week two lots off football left.

Dude tackled your sneer-fest, I guess

"us winning makes up for his gay ass"? What did you win?

You two are like two of the Three Stooges, bumbling fools but on the internet.

tsiguy96
09-21-2009, 11:54 PM
Dude tackled your sneer-fest, I guess

"us winning makes up for his gay ass"? What did you win?

You two are like two of the Three Stooges, bumbling fools but on the internet.

were not allowed to be happy cuz its only week 2 dummy. gotta analyze and cry that stuff isnt perfect and whine to people who are enjoying the ride trying to bring them down to our level.

lazarus4444
09-22-2009, 12:13 AM
I have two words for you bro:

CLEVELAND BROWNS!

The Cleveland Browns are still an NFL team that is capable of beating any other NFL team on any given Sunday!

tsiguy96
09-22-2009, 12:15 AM
The Cleveland Browns are still an NFL team that is capable of beating any other NFL team on any given Sunday!

their coach is a total dbag though...dunno why he ever got another job, if you listened to any jets players on sirius or something over the summer, you could tell he just drained the fun out of football for them

lazarus4444
09-22-2009, 12:20 AM
Yes but people trying to downplay our win because it was the browns don't understand NFL football. Especially with how negative a lot of fans here were being during the off-season. A win is a win and every NFL team is capable of beating any other NFL team every week. We're 2-0, i'll take it.

tsiguy96
09-22-2009, 12:23 AM
Yes but people trying to downplay our win because it was the browns don't understand NFL football. Especially with how negative a lot of fans here were being during the off-season. A win is a win and every NFL team is capable of beating any other NFL team every week. We're 2-0, i'll take it.

hey i agree, we shut down a pretty good running game and a team that put up (i think) 20 on the vikings.

Cito Pelon
09-22-2009, 12:24 AM
were not allowed to be happy cuz its only week 2 dummy. gotta analyze and cry that stuff isnt perfect and whine to people who are enjoying the ride trying to bring them down to our level.

Them losers, they kicked the snot out of the Browns, what a bummer. /sarcasm off

DHallblows
09-22-2009, 12:40 AM
hey i agree, we shut down a pretty good running game and a team that put up (i think) 20 on the vikings.

Eh, idk if I'd say that about their running game, not a big fan of Jamal. He falls down as easily as Tatum but has no speed. Decent. I'm happy with decent to describe their running game.
I agree with your post though hahaha

tsiguy96
09-22-2009, 01:14 AM
Eh, idk if I'd say that about their running game, not a big fan of Jamal. He falls down as easily as Tatum but has no speed. Decent. I'm happy with decent to describe their running game.
I agree with your post though hahaha

the one thing i hated about this game was braylons long reception over champ bailey. champ 06 picks that 100% of the time. this time he didnt even get to swat it away. not that champ sucks, his state right now is far above average for CB, but champ now compared to champ then is quite a difference.

Cito Pelon
09-22-2009, 01:15 AM
Man some of you guys sound like idiot Philly/Chicago fans. Hate hate hate even when you're winning and your team is doing good things.

I always kind of took pride in Denver fans that they don't blindly hate on some of their team no matter how well they played. Orton was hated relentlessly, and booed almost ever game, even as he was winning a lot of games with Chicago.

Sad to see that crap mentality has seeped into Broncos fans.

Sad to hear boos from the stands.

ZONA
09-22-2009, 03:08 AM
I think for the most part, you don't see many QB's who throw 40 yards downfield in the air all game long. They will take a few shots here and there but must pass plays over 30+ are usually a result of a shorter throw with some YAC on the end there. It's a higher % throw and your QB can get rid of the ball faster rather then sitting back in the pocket. Give me the 3 or 5 steps drops with a quicker release then the 7 step drops where you see alot of QB's get drilled.

I don't care if we are throwing shorter passes. As long as the receiver is open, that's who you should throw to, no matter if he is 10 yards past the LOS or 40 yards.

I know it's not popular with the fans but one of the things Orton is doing well right now is throwing the ball away when there is nothing there. Don't force it and get the turn over. Nothing worse then losing 50 yards of field position with an interception rather then punting the ball away.

TheDave
09-22-2009, 06:19 AM
Dave, please. All of your 'analytical' posts since January have been sneering at the Broncos. So don't get holier than thou. As many have said, we see through it. Too bad you won't shut up is basically what we all think.

Like I told Popps, feel free to address the topic. You and him don't do much more than run around personally attack posters for their takes.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-22-2009, 06:22 AM
For those who say Orton doesn't have zip, doesn't have a good arm, can't complete downfield... an education:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Wf--FS4-gWI&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Wf--FS4-gWI&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-22-2009, 06:24 AM
I think both eddie and Brandon can get down field. Maybe not as much as Moss, but a hell of a lot more than we do now.... don't you?

Yep, I sure do. And you know what? Orton's wearing a glove on his hand to protect his injured index finger. Don't think that makes a difference? Check out the video I posted above, and then watch his throws since the injury. Wearing a glove makes a huge difference. Should he have been starting? Well, that's up for debate I guess, but we are 2-0, and that's the bottom line for me.

barryr
09-22-2009, 06:35 AM
So Orton doesn't have the arm strength to zip a pass between 2-3 defenders. I bet McDaniels is just fine with that. He obviously wants a QB who will protect the ball and not take so many unnecessary chances. So many people fixated on arm strength equating to being a great QB. They need to watch more games apparently.

TheDave
09-22-2009, 06:40 AM
Yep, I sure do. And you know what? Orton's wearing a glove on his hand to protect his injured index finger. Don't think that makes a difference? Check out the video I posted above, and then watch his throws since the injury. Wearing a glove makes a huge difference. Should he have been starting? Well, that's up for debate I guess, but we are 2-0, and that's the bottom line for me.

No one is discounting the fact that we are 2-0... some of us are stating that this 25+ yard stat is misleading. hell the Browns ran a 0 coverage most of the game. Now, sinsce they have a terrible defense that didn't matter, but if we want to beat teams with a good defense we are going to need to figure out ways to get the 8th and 9th man out of the box.

As for the reasons for this... I don't know what it is. I said earlier in this thread, maybe it's the glove or Orton arm strength/accuracy... Hell, it might be the recievers problem.

The point is we make the safties pay for stacking the line and our running game and the screen game will take off.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-22-2009, 06:56 AM
No one is discounting the fact that we are 2-0... some of us are stating that this 25+ yard stat is misleading. hell the Browns ran a 0 coverage most of the game. Now, sinsce they have a terrible defense that didn't matter, but if we want to beat teams with a good defense we are going to need to figure out ways to get the 8th and 9th man out of the box.

As for the reasons for this... I don't know what it is. I said earlier in this thread, maybe it's the glove or Orton arm strength/accuracy... Hell, it might be the recievers problem.

The point is we make the safties pay for stacking the line and our running game and the screen game will take off.

More than any of that, Dave, I think it's going to come as Orton gets more comfortable with the offense. In the clips above, I see a very calm, cool, collected quarterback who can make every throw he needs to make. it's a matter of getting a quarterback into a new system with new players around him to be comfortable. Granted, he can't take his sweet time, but I saw a vast improvement from week one to week two, and I think he'll improve every week, as will the communication with his teammates.

in other words, I think we're going to be just fine.

Pretty thankful that we're starting with CIN/CLE/OAK though. :rofl: That confidence builder can't be a bad thing.

baja
09-22-2009, 06:56 AM
Like I told Popps, feel free to address the topic. You and him don't do much more than run around personally attack posters for their takes.

I love ya TheDave but that is not the whole story both Poops and Cito make football takes all the time. I'd say the insults are spread around pretty evenly it's just Poops are usually funnier ;D

Rohirrim
09-22-2009, 07:02 AM
I'm actually beginning to agree with TJ's take: The Bronco family has just gone through a divorce and there's a lot of emotional baggage left to sort out. ;D

TheDave
09-22-2009, 07:02 AM
More than any of that, Dave, I think it's going to come as Orton gets more comfortable with the offense. In the clips above, I see a very calm, cool, collected quarterback who can make every throw he needs to make. it's a matter of getting a quarterback into a new system with new players around him to be comfortable. Granted, he can't take his sweet time, but I saw a vast improvement from week one to week two, and I think he'll improve every week, as will the communication with his teammates.

in other words, I think we're going to be just fine.

Pretty thankful that we're starting with CIN/CLE/OAK though. :rofl: That confidence builder can't be a bad thing.

I don't doubt that as people get more comfortable in this system we will see more of it's facets. I was just shocked at how little respect Cleveland gave our passing game.

It's really too bad that Marshall has his head so firmly up his ass... At one point in the 2nd half when we put him in motion a safety followed him and played him tight at the LOS. Last year that would have been a TD. This year... not so much.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-22-2009, 07:08 AM
I don't doubt that as people get more comfortable in this system we will see more of it's facets. I was just shocked at how little respect Cleveland gave our passing game.

It's really too bad that Marshall has his head so firmly up his ass... At one point in the 2nd half when we put him in motion a safety followed him and played him tight at the LOS. Last year that would have been a TD. This year... not so much.

Well, teams will disrespect our passing game at their peril very soon, I think. I hope. Orton can make the throws. Getting tuned up against the JayVee squads is just what the doctor ordered.

And while I'm bummed about BM as well, there's just no way to get him to give a crap about anything but himself. He can stay and win and contribute, or he can keep doing what he's doing, bitch and moan and get himself traded to a franchise that doesn't care about winning. Either way, we're 2-0 without him doing much of anything.

TheDave
09-22-2009, 07:10 AM
I love ya TheDave but that is not the whole story both Poops and Cito make football takes all the time. I'd say the insults are spread around pretty evenly it's just Poops are usually funnier ;D

Really?

Cause in this entire thread you, popps, and cito have between 12-15 posts, and the closest any of you have come to a football take is Cito repeating sundays stats...

baja
09-22-2009, 07:12 AM
I'm actually beginning to agree with TJ's take: The Bronco family has just gone through a divorce and there's a lot of emotional baggage left to sort out. ;D

I don't know about you but I might be scared for life..... :lalalala:

Rohirrim
09-22-2009, 07:15 AM
I don't know about you but I might be scared for life..... :lalalala:

I've already accepted the new step-dad and I'm ready to move on . ;)

baja
09-22-2009, 07:18 AM
Really?

Cause in this entire thread you, popps, and cito have between 12-15 posts, and the closest any of you have come to a football take is Cito repeating sundays stats...

Oh I see, I should explain something than. I think it is a stupid topic. Orton does not throw a pretty pass (Cutler) but he is a quality starting QB who has 2 games in a new system and is 2 and 0. Feel free to debate rather an NFL QB can throw the football far enough I stick to joking around on this one. ;D

TheDave
09-22-2009, 07:22 AM
Oh I see, I should explain something than. I think it is a stupid topic. Orton does not throw a pretty pass (Cutler) but he is a quality starting QB who has 2 games in a new system and is 2 and 0. Feel free to debate rather an NFL QB can throw the football far enough I stick to joking around on this one. ;D

WOW... I just figured out why you lose so many bets around here. Hilarious!

But, fair enough... thanks for your input

Popcorn Sutton
09-22-2009, 07:23 AM
For those who say Orton doesn't have zip, doesn't have a good arm, can't complete downfield... an education:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Wf--FS4-gWI&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Wf--FS4-gWI&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Good post Moose.

He can't throw down field. - Debunked
He can't throw into coverage. - Debunked
He can't throw with zip on the ball. - Debunked

If you break down his tape and actually watch what he can do it's easy to see that he could be a successful QB in this system. I noticed one thing in that game tape from last year that I haven't seen from him so far this season. He was relaxed and just playing football. He is still very tentative and out of sync with the receivers. Once he gets this system down and is able to just go out and play he'll surprise some folks. I don't know if he'll ever change the minds of some people on here but he will surprise people who really analyze football and don't have a preconceived bias.

baja
09-22-2009, 07:36 AM
WOW... I just figured out why you lose so many bets around here. Hilarious!

But, fair enough... thanks for your input

You really don't see through those high risk bets Dave???

TonyR
09-22-2009, 07:56 AM
--amazing how things change in only 1 season!

Yep, and a lot of it for the better. And yet you continue to dwell on the negative and complain, complain, complain. And then you're surprised that people get tired of you and others constantly whining. To dislike Orton and be aware of his limitations is one thing, but the constant bashing and complaining with little to no positivity gets really old. I can't imagine how unbearable some of you people would be if we were 0-2 right now. Weeks after losses are going to be brutal.

broncofan7
09-22-2009, 08:20 AM
Yep, and a lot of it for the better. And yet you continue to dwell on the negative and complain, complain, complain. And then you're surprised that people get tired of you and others constantly whining. To dislike Orton and be aware of his limitations is one thing, but the constant bashing and complaining with little to no positivity gets really old. I can't imagine how unbearable some of you people would be if we were 0-2 right now. Weeks after losses are going to be brutal.

By trading Cutler --how did that help to transform our defense? IT DIDN'T. Fonzie is playing decent as our nickel--but our change has come from the hiring of Nolan and free agency--it's truly shameful to think of what we could have been with an above average NFL QB leading our offense--we would have beaten Cincy by 2 TDs and CLE would have had their doors blown off in the 1st half--every Bronco fan is ecstatic that we are 2-0--but the practical ones also recognize that we are one miracle away from being 1-1 and our QB is the chief reason why (his sack late in the 4th qtr)--I hope that our defense is able to overcome his pending ineffectiveness against OAKLAND....

Steve Prefontaine
09-22-2009, 08:22 AM
Weeks after losses are going to be brutal.
Haha. They always have been here. Nothing new.

tsiguy96
09-22-2009, 08:24 AM
By trading Cutler --how did that help to transform our defense? IT DIDN'T. Fonzie is playing decent as our nickel--but our change has come from the hiring of Nolan and free agency--it's truly shameful to think of what we could have been with an above average NFL QB leading our offense--we would have beaten Cincy by 2 TDs and CLE would have had their doors blown off in the 1st half--every Bronco fan is ecstatic that we are 2-0--but the practical ones also recognize that we are one miracle away from being 1-1 and our QB is the chief reason why (his sack late in the 4th qtr)--I hope that our defense is able to overcome his pending ineffectiveness against OAKLAND....

dude get over it, seriously. orton is doing exactly what he needs to do, effectively running this offense with little risk and no turnovers. just because cutler is here doesnt mean we absolutely kill those teams, he could have thrown 3 picks in those games too and we lost it. ball control, move the chains offense is better than bombs downfield for low completion %

broncofan7
09-22-2009, 08:27 AM
dude get over it, seriously. orton is doing exactly what he needs to do, effectively running this offense with little risk and no turnovers. just because cutler is here doesnt mean we absolutely kill those teams, he could have thrown 3 picks in those games too and we lost it. ball control, move the chains offense is better than bombs downfield for low completion %

Okay--truth be told--I have both Marshall and Royal on 3 of my fantasy teams and I am 0-2 in those 3 leagues--and I BLAME ORTON! There you go--why that hate for him; is it personal with he and I?--you're darn right it is.;)

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-22-2009, 08:28 AM
You should definitely keep crying over Cutler, though. I bet if you cry and beg and plead with him enough, he'll take pity on your stupid ass and come back.

broncofan7
09-22-2009, 08:31 AM
You should definitely keep crying over Cutler, though. I bet if you cry and beg and plead with him enough, he'll take pity on your stupid ass and come back.

Does that work if I want someone to GO AWAY too?And I am not thinking of Kyle Orton.........

kamakazi_kal
09-22-2009, 08:32 AM
I'll keep the 2 - 0. We should be 3 - 0 as Russell has to be the worst QB in the league.
Hopefully we keep improving as the schedule gets harder. I'm still not impressed with the passing game ..... it's been the D that I like seeing.

BroncoBuff
09-22-2009, 08:59 AM
Just re-read this thread, and Dave is taking WAY too big a pounding.

Guys, EVERYBODY is happy Orton kicked ass Sunday, it was a HUGELY welcome change of pace. But don't kid yourself, Orton sucked before that ... A 6-1 Int/TD ratio in preseason, and the Stokley miracle TD was just his 2nd TD pass in 13 quarters with the starters.


I was just shocked at how little respect Cleveland gave our passing game.
Don't abandon your positions so easily ... they disrespected our passing game because until 48 hours ago, Orton sucked. BIG time.

Despite Orton's great play against Cleveland, I still think we should pound Buck/Knowshon/Hillis behind that O-line. If they stack 8 in the box, there's plenty of ways to counter that, and Kyle has now proven he can do so. But let's not lean on Orton's passing ... let's stick to fewer, safer passes for now.

ScottXray
09-22-2009, 09:01 AM
Okay--truth be told--I have both Marshall and Royal on 3 of my fantasy teams and I am 0-2 in those 3 leagues--and I BLAME ORTON! There you go--why that hate for him; is it personal with he and I?--you're darn right it is.;)

Fantasy Football! In the REAL world (the one that actually COUNTS) it is a fact that the Broncos are 2-0. And you are bitching cause Orton is not throwing it to Marshall and Royal? Marshall missed pretty much all of pre-season, and Royal seems to be in a sophomore slump. Neither have been effective as receivers, aren't getting open much, not running crisp routes or correct routes and not having blitz awareness. Marshall especially has played sub-par.

So you want Orton to throw it up to BM? Lock on to a receiver that is doing a poor job and force it to him...kind of like what happened a lot last year?

To hell with winning the REAL world games, as long as your fantasy teams do well?

There is a fix for that....the coach of your fantasy teams should realise that he has the WRONG players starting. By the way numbnuts...that is YOU!

And anyone that thinks the team is playing to make their fantasy team look good should stick to fantasy football exclusively.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-22-2009, 09:03 AM
Does that work if I want someone to GO AWAY too?And I am not thinking of Kyle Orton.........

I don't think so. I've been hoping you leave for a while now, yet you're still here, complaining and crying and whining and bitching and moaning over your lost love Jay Cutler.

Cutler left you. He left. You're a six to him, Six. not only that, he did you dirty. He came back to your place, ****ed you, took a dump in your toilet, didn't flush, then kicked your dog while he stole $20 out of your purse. And yet you pine for him. Wondering why he hasn't called. Desperately checking his facebook page to see if he's said anything about you. Calling his friends, over and over again, to see if there's something you did wrong to send him away.

You look pathetic. That snapshot I just laid out? It's you, and it's dead-on accurate.

BroncoBuff
09-22-2009, 09:12 AM
The ball was probably a yard or so under-thrown. The comments like you made earlier saying it was 10 yards under-thrown and the countless comments about how he couldn't throw the ball down field during the pre-season, so on and so forth.
If you're talking about the Cincy throw, honestly Brew I'd say 5-6 yards underthrown. If you look JUST AT when the ball arrived, they yes, a yard or two. But remember BM slowed down immediatley when he saw the ball in the air ... each step of slowing down counts as distance underthrown.


As much as Popps spends time hating on Cutler you've met him toe-to-toe with Kyle Orton. Now is where you send another insult my way...
Yes Dave doesn't like Orton, but don't pretend he's anywhere near the level of hostile, insulting condescension of Popps. It's two different worlds ... this one post in this one thread is more insulting/condescending than anything I've seen from Dave: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2565586&postcount=41 And that's mild by Popps standards, no **** in that one.

Dave has opinions, Popps has obsessions. Big difference.

BroncoBuff
09-22-2009, 09:18 AM
I'll keep the 2 - 0. We should be 3 - 0 as Russell has to be the worst QB in the league.

Russell does suck, but he has one thing going for him ... he's so huge it's like trying to tackle a cement block ... did you see that play Sunday where the chef looked like he had a sack? He was wrapped around his legs but Russell wouldn't go down, he just stood there! ROFL!

Dumervil is giving up 50-60 pounds to that guy !

Beantown Bronco
09-22-2009, 09:26 AM
Russell does suck, but he has one thing going for him ... he's so huge it's like trying to tackle a cement block ... did you see that play Sunday where the chef looked like he had a sack? He was wrapped around his legs but Russell wouldn't go down, he just stood there! ROFL!

Dumervil is giving up 50-60 pounds to that guy !

50-60 pounds!?!

Try well over 100. Seriously.

Dumervil's listed weight is around 250 (248 on nfl.com).

And we pretty much established in another thread over the weekend or end of last week that Russell is at least 285, based off a side by side photo of him and one of his defenders.

Popps
09-22-2009, 09:36 AM
To hell with winning the REAL world games, as long as your fantasy teams do well?

There is a fix for that....the coach of your fantasy teams should realise that he has the WRONG players starting. By the way numbnuts...that is YOU!

And anyone that thinks the team is playing to make their fantasy team look good should stick to fantasy football exclusively.

Agree, and I touched on that point here recently.

I honestly think a lot of people here would prefer a loss... as long as the QB threw for 400 yards. It's a bizarre mindset that crept in somewhere around the time we drafted Cutler, and just never left.

The QB having a "rocket arm" has replaced sound, fundamental, winning football for a lot of folks.

I grew up watching Elway... but also grew up watching some great Denver defenses, and it wasn't until the late 90s that we put a complete team around Elway, and the results spoke for themselves.

Winning football isn't always statistically pretty. Then again, nothing we did the last few years was really statistically pretty, anyway... so I'm not sure what people are complaining about.

Popcorn Sutton
09-22-2009, 09:45 AM
If you're talking about the Cincy throw, honestly Brew I'd say 5-6 yards underthrown. If you look JUST AT when the ball arrived, they yes, a yard or two. But remember BM slowed down immediatley when he saw the ball in the air ... each step of slowing down counts as distance underthrown.

This is just incorrect Buff. Please watch. I've watched it several times.

Pay attention to the two different angles and you'll see when he slows up the ball is in the picture. Pause it. Watch very closely at the 15-16 second mark of the video.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d8129a63f/NFL-GameDay-Broncos-vs-Bengals-highlights


He slows up on the last 2 steps when the ball is 3/4 of the way there. And THEN the real telling thing is he jumps and the ball is above his head.

Regardless, my original point stands. You can come to Dave's rescue but you are not the one who is making over the top remarks.

The ball was maybe a yard under-thrown and Dave's comment was that it was 10 yards under-thrown. It's comments like these that elicit negative reactions.

For the record, Dave is not that bad (you know who is much worse) but Dave still has a hard time evaluating Orton with an open mind.

Popps
09-22-2009, 09:48 AM
The bottom line is, big-time receivers make these catches that Marshall is dropping. He may have the capacity, but simply can't be bothered. He's in mopey-mode. Maybe it's a tribute to Jay?

Lev Vyvanse
09-22-2009, 09:48 AM
hell the Browns ran a 0 coverage most of the game. Now, sinsce they have a terrible defense that didn't matter, but if we want to beat teams with a good defense we are going to need to figure out ways to get the 8th and 9th man out of the box.
With a statement like that you may need to heed your own advice and start watching the games. They ran a cover 0 less than five times.

BroncoBuff
09-22-2009, 09:57 AM
I honestly think a lot of people here would prefer a loss.
No, that's just you. You're so insecure that when people disagree with you, you get angry and accuse real Broncos fans here of wishing the Broncos would lose.

I can prove it: A couple months ago you put me on Ignore because you said that because I missed Cutler, I "want the Broncos to lose." And yet, I've spent well over a thousand bucks travelling to Denver twice in the past six weeks to watch and cover the team for this site. Now, do those sound like the actions of a guy who hates the Broncos and wants them to lose? hmmm...

So there you go ... you're wrong. And I proved it ;D



I grew up watching Elway... but also grew up watching some great Denver defenses, and it wasn't until the late 90s that we put a complete team around Elway, and the results spoke for themselves.
Good point, I wish we could've done that for Cutler. The worst cumulative 07-08 defense in the league, and 7 RBs on IR. Those circumstances make crystal clear we cannot pin Cutler's W-L record here 100% on him, nor can we give Orton all the credit for his W-L record.

broncofan7
09-22-2009, 09:59 AM
With a statement like that you may need to heed your own advice and start watching the games. They ran a cover 0 less than five times.

Interesting user name--are you a drug rep/Pharmacologist/PharmD or physician? Vyvanse is nothing more than a drug company re-marketing dexedrine (dextroamphetamine)by making it a pro-drug.....

Lev Vyvanse
09-22-2009, 10:04 AM
Interesting user name--are you a drug rep/Pharmacologist/PharmD or physician?No

Vyvanse is nothing more than a drug company re-marketing dexedrine (dextroiamphetamine)by making it a pro-drug..... I know what Vyvanse is. It's not a pro drug username.

broncofan7
09-22-2009, 10:07 AM
No

I know what Vyvanse is. It's not a pro drug username.

Cool--I just found it interesting--

BroncoBuff
09-22-2009, 10:19 AM
No

I know what Vyvanse is. It's not a pro drug username.

Vyvanse is an ADD drug I think.

Rabb
09-22-2009, 10:22 AM
Vyvanse is an ADD drug I think.

pretty fitting for here eh?

BroncoBuff
09-22-2009, 10:30 AM
pretty fitting for here eh?

Can you repeat that, I wasn't paying attention.

TailgateNut
09-22-2009, 10:36 AM
pretty fitting for here eh?


:rofl:

baja
09-22-2009, 10:43 AM
<b>By trading Cutler --how did that help to transform our defense? IT DIDN'T.</b> Fonzie is playing decent as our nickel--but our change has come from the hiring of Nolan and free agency--it's truly shameful to think of what we could have been with an above average NFL QB leading our offense--we would have beaten Cincy by 2 TDs and CLE would have had their doors blown off in the 1st half--every Bronco fan is ecstatic that we are 2-0--but the practical ones also recognize that we are one miracle away from being 1-1 and our QB is the chief reason why (his sack late in the 4th qtr)--I hope that our defense is able to overcome his pending ineffectiveness against OAKLAND....

Actually it DID, we have a ball control O that takes care of the ball and that is a huge help to any defense.

Go find out how many points were scored on us from turnovers last year.

baja
09-22-2009, 10:48 AM
Okay--truth be told--I have both Marshall and Royal on 3 of my fantasy teams and I am 0-2 in those 3 leagues--and I BLAME ORTON! There you go--why that hate for him; is it personal with he and I?--you're darn right it is.;)

So you are a fantasy football fan well this here is a Denver Broncos fan web site. We don't care about your failures in FF.

BroncoBuff
09-22-2009, 10:50 AM
This is just incorrect Buff. Please watch. I've watched it several times.

Pay attention to the two different angles and you'll see when he slows up the ball is in the picture. Pause it. Watch very closely at the 15-16 second mark of the video.

He slows up on the last 2 steps when the ball is 3/4 of the way there. And THEN the real telling thing is he jumps and the ball is above his head.

Okay, yes .... definitely less than 5 yards. I was going entirely on my game recollection, I hadn't seen the replay until now. It was actually a fairly well thrown ball, and regardless of how many yards under/over thrown, he should have caught it.

Bronco Yoda
09-22-2009, 11:03 AM
Yeah, that one... re watch it, it was SEVERLY under thrown.

Cutler and BM had a good thing going last year doing that sort of thing. Cutler throwing it up and dropping it behind hem where BM would slow down, twist back and rebound.

broncocalijohn
09-22-2009, 11:20 AM
Did you watch it?

He had one 30 yard out (which was a good throw)... All of his other "bombs" were of the 20 yard variety.

Listen folks, if you want to pretend that Orton and his arm are keeping the defenses honest your kidding yourselves. Now how much of it is his injured hand or our WR's not getting open or the scheme... I don't know.

But at some point we will have to find a way of making safties pay for crowding the line.

Now if you would all put away your foam horse heads and stop defending our new journeyman QB, we might be able to start having a football discussion again.

I guess we could say the same thing about putting away your Bears Cutler jersey, we can start having a pro Broncos discussion too. As of right now, this stat is showing we are moving the ball down the field with passes that arent caught 25 yards downfield. If YAC was a big deal for Marshall, just think of his production once he decides to get his noggin in the playbook and do the correct routes! Wes Welkey thrived on this offense in New England. Only two things worry me on this and that is defensive adjustments as we played two games using this formula and tougher opponents coming up starting this week. After Browns game, it is getting better.

Popcorn Sutton
09-22-2009, 11:20 AM
Okay, yes .... definitely less than 5 yards. I was going entirely on my game recollection, I hadn't seen the replay until now. It was actually a fairly well thrown ball, and regardless of how many yards under/over thrown, he should have caught it.

Rep for being honest. You are a good man.

DBroncos4life
09-22-2009, 11:23 AM
With a statement like that you may need to heed your own advice and start watching the games. They ran a cover 0 less than five times.

Lets say they only ran it 5 times. The announcers talked about them running it quite a bit and yet we only hit one play for big yards when they ran it. Thats not good odds. We talked about RZ scoring and total points all off season when talking about Shanahan's O last year. We finished 16th with 23 points per game. So far this year we are 19th in scoring, with 19.5 points per game. So we are 8th in yards and 19th in scoring. Now I don't know about you but its almost like last year lots of yards little points. If you believe that our D will hold up all year then everything is fine.

What I find troubling is even though we are playing very well posters like tsiguy and popps thinks us fans that didn't find this off season as a great one can't enjoy the team. I'm happy as hell that the team has looked good and that so far I have been wrong. Even though I thought we would win the first couple of games anyways. Should posters that didn't enjoy the off-season just leave and only comeback if we lose?

Like I said I expected us to win the first few games, but something I didn't count on is how bad the rest of the NFL is looking.

Beantown Bronco
09-22-2009, 11:28 AM
What I find troubling is even though we are playing very well posters like tsiguy and popps thinks us fans that didn't find this off season as a great one can't enjoy the team. I'm happy as hell that the team has looked good and that so far I have been wrong. Even though I thought we would win the first couple of games anyways. Should posters that didn't enjoy the off-season just leave and only comeback if we lose?


It's a no win situation.

If you didn't like even a few of the offseason moves, it must be killing you now to show up here and see that the team is winning (even if you predicted a 2-0 start since day one, which most did).

But if you wait until the team loses before coming back, then you were clearly just a bad fan, wishing that they would lose all along so you could come in here and say "I told you so".

Bronco Yoda
09-22-2009, 11:33 AM
Brandon Stokley & Jabar Gaffney are the leading WR's so far. Think about that for a moment.

I can't wait until Marshall and Royal get dialed in. This should be a very sick WR's group right here.

Lev Vyvanse
09-22-2009, 11:35 AM
Lets say they only ran it 5 times. The announcers talked about them running it quite a bit and yet we only hit one play for big yards when they ran it. Thats not good odds. We talked about RZ scoring and total points all off season when talking about Shanahan's O last year. We finished 16th with 23 points per game. So far this year we are 19th in scoring, with 19.5 points per game. So we are 8th in yards and 19th in scoring. Now I don't know about you but its almost like last year lots of yards little points. If you believe that our D will hold up all year then everything is fine.
I didn't listen to the announcers. If they said Cleveland was running a cover 0 alot they are wrong.

What I find troubling is even though we are playing very well posters like tsiguy and popps thinks us fans that didn't find this off season as a great one can't enjoy the team. I'm happy as hell that the team has looked good and that so far I have been wrong. Even though I thought we would win the first couple of games anyways. Should posters that didn't enjoy the off-season just leave and only comeback if we lose?
I dont care what people do. I think this I told you so crap is going to go on all season from both sides.

gyldenlove
09-22-2009, 12:07 PM
It's a no win situation.

If you didn't like even a few of the offseason moves, it must be killing you now to show up here and see that the team is winning (even if you predicted a 2-0 start since day one, which most did).

But if you wait until the team loses before coming back, then you were clearly just a bad fan, wishing that they would lose all along so you could come in here and say "I told you so".

I have been called quite a few things on here the last few months.

I liked the hiring of Mcdaniels, I thought he was the best candidate of the bunch.

I hated the Goodman firing and the Xanders promotion, I hate the Cutler trade, the Al Smith trade, the Richard Quinn trade and pick, the way Wiegmann had to talk about retiring and they whole Marshall debacle.

I always thought the team would start 3-0 and I know for a fact that I had higher expectations for this team than many of the people who were busy praising any and every move the team did and didn't make. I have said the entire offseason that we will go 8-8 or 9-7 which I know for a fact is a better record than many of the cheerleaders have predicted.

DBroncos4life
09-22-2009, 12:27 PM
I didn't listen to the announcers. If they said Cleveland was running a cover 0 alot they are wrong.

I dont care what people do. I think this I told you so crap is going to go on all season from both sides.

They didn't say the ran it a lot they said that when they ran it Denver should be able to hit if for a big play and we couldn't.

Popps
09-22-2009, 12:53 PM
Brandon Stokley & Jabar Gaffney are the leading WR's so far. Think about that for a moment.

I can't wait until Marshall and Royal get dialed in. This should be a very sick WR's group right here.

I really think Royal will excel in this system. Word is he was sick last week. Hopefully he'll start to excel this week against Oak. How fitting would that be. :yayaya:

Rabb
09-22-2009, 12:58 PM
I really think Royal will excel in this system. Word is he was sick last week. Hopefully he'll start to excel this week against Oak. How fitting would that be. :yayaya:

if Royal gets that short pass that Stokes got the last game in which he took off but was caught...he woulda' been gone

all respect to Stokley, I love the guy but Royal is so fast

Popps
09-22-2009, 01:04 PM
What I find troubling is even though we are playing very well posters like tsiguy and popps thinks us fans that didn't find this off season as a great one can't enjoy the team. I'm happy as hell that the team has looked good and that so far I have been wrong. .

Wrong.

I have no problem with someone who perhaps didn't like some of the moves, but is still in here discussing the team rationally, rooting the team on, talking smack to other teams, whatever.

There's a VERY DISTINCT DIFFERENCE between that, and people ACTIVELY TRYING TO seek out negative aspects of the team's performance to support their (incorrect) preseason calls for this team to fail.


We win a game... only allow 6 points, and within MINUTES of the loss, you've got idiots posting threads trying to discount a nice performance by the defense.

You've got posters running around who do NOTHING but bash the team under the guise of being "realistic."

How about this... it's a FAN BOARD. Most of us are here because we WANT Denver to win football games.... not just be right about HOW they win them.

I've seen plenty of people who didn't like the team's off-season here eating a little crow, and cheering on the team. I've also noticed a lot of those people have disappeared, or don't post as much. I've also noticed a certain group of bitter people who just insist on trying to crap on anyone else's post that might contain somewhat of a hopeful or positive tone.

You're just mixing issues. I've got no problem with good, analytical breakdowns of the team. (Did you catch Med's thread? Great thread that covered positives and negatives... but naturally was crapped on by the "pay attention to me" crowd.)

Trolling, spamming and bashing is not good analysis. Don't confuse the two.

Popps
09-22-2009, 01:06 PM
if Royal gets that short pass that Stokes got the last game in which he took off but was caught...he woulda' been gone

all respect to Stokley, I love the guy but Royal is so fast

True. Eddie came a fingertip away from a TD on Sunday against Cleveland, as well.

He'll be a big part of the game plan. Might just take a little time. McDaniels loves him.

broncofan7
09-22-2009, 01:10 PM
Vyvanse is an ADD drug I think.

Indeed.

DBroncos4life
09-22-2009, 01:29 PM
It's a no win situation.

If you didn't like even a few of the offseason moves, it must be killing you now to show up here and see that the team is winning (even if you predicted a 2-0 start since day one, which most did).

But if you wait until the team loses before coming back, then you were clearly just a bad fan, wishing that they would lose all along so you could come in here and say "I told you so".

I think the Bengals will end up being a good team. I also believe we caught a break playing them week one instead of week 10. Both teams looked like it was week one and we came out with the win.

The Browns are bad. The Browns O is ranked 32 in total yards. 28th in passing yards and 27th in rushing. There D is ranked 25th as well. Hell the return game has the same amount of TDs (1) through two games.

broncofan7
09-22-2009, 01:34 PM
I think the Bengals will end up being a good team. I also believe we caught a break playing them week one instead of week 10. Both teams looked like it was week one and we came out with the win.

The Browns are bad. The Browns O is ranked 32 in total yards. 28th in passing yards and 27th in rushing. There D is ranked 25th as well. Hell the return game has the same amount of TDs (1) through two games.

Cincy is a good team--as long as Carson stays healthy--going to GB and beating GB was no small task--it makes Nolan's defensive effort all that more impressive---I hope our D makes life MISERABLE for JABBA-rcus!

DBroncos4life
09-22-2009, 01:38 PM
Cincy is a good team--as long as Carson stays healthy--going to GB and beating GB was no small task--it makes Nolan's defensive effort all that more impressive---I hope our D makes life MISERABLE for JABBA-rcus!

I think Carson and the Bengals O looked rusty during the first week. They had a few drops, Coles mostly that normally he wouldn't drop. I'm not trying to take anything away from the D, and as I have said multiple times already both teams looked like it was opening week in the NFL.

cutthemdown
09-22-2009, 01:42 PM
Anyone with 2 WR from 1 team on there fantasy team is pretty stupid. Oh wait its broncofan7 so it makes sense.

Not to mention drafting Marshall at all in fantasy how he had been looking. If you did take him it should have been way late in draft and you should have plenty of WR to choose from.

I have Royal as well but sat him last week and played Ginn JR instead. Yeah I'm better at fantasy football then you.

Anyways Royal will get going but 2 have a bunch of players from same team is stupid.

Even QB/WR QB/RB tandems are a bad idea and the stats play out that way.

TonyR
09-22-2009, 02:23 PM
I've also noticed a lot of those people have disappeared, or don't post as much. I've also noticed a certain group of bitter people who just insist on trying to crap on anyone else's post that might contain somewhat of a hopeful or positive tone.


I've noticed this as well, hard not to. I'm sure they'll all be back with a vengeance after a loss or two. But we better be careful talking about this because some people say this isn't true (even though it clearly is) and that the more positive people are the real bad guys here.

What I think is also true is that both sides are over compensating to defend their positions. What's sad is that the widows and haters are over compensating against the very team they're supposed to be fans of. Bizarre.

Taco John
09-22-2009, 02:54 PM
It would be nice if Marshall pulled his head out. He could be very valuable on this team if he could just get his head out of the place where he feels like life is so unfair and into the place where life has presented him an opportunity.

That said, he still doesn't look comfortable catching balls over the middle.

errand
09-22-2009, 03:11 PM
Again, you've stated many times Kyle Orton can't throw deep passes. The You Tube video I posted clearly shows you are WRONG.

Exactly...these clowns think a strong arm begins and ends with Elway or cutler. Orton's arm is strong enough to play in the NFL.

I mean 38D boobs are big....does that mean 36D boobs aren't?

Just because Orton can't throw it 80 yards, doesn't mean his arm is weak. He can throw it 65-70 yards, which is good enough.

Again I don't care if he can't throw it 30 yards as long as we win the freaking game, because games aren't won by who had the longest throw

Taco John
09-22-2009, 03:11 PM
Cincy is a good team--as long as Carson stays healthy--going to GB and beating GB was no small task--it makes Nolan's defensive effort all that more impressive---I hope our D makes life MISERABLE for JABBA-rcus!



8')

Stealing that one!

errand
09-22-2009, 03:17 PM
Folks, Orton is only one letter away from Morton.

...oK, are you implying that Craig Morton didn't have a cannon arm?

Because the truth is he definitely did. His arm was so strong he hit Buddy Dial in the nose during training camp that his nose looked like WC Fields...he also broke the skin between a couple of WR's fingers as well.

Morton could throw it just as far as alot of the more notable cannons.

..and just because the offense a QB is running means he isn't asked to throw it far, doesn't mean he can't.

errand
09-22-2009, 03:21 PM
Don't worry, Popps only has a certain amount of time daily to put down his pom poms and demonstrate his total lack of understanding as to what constitutes championship caliber QB play, he can't possibly have enough time in the day

So pray tell, inform us of the numerous championships the QB you're pining for has won.

Oh, that's right he hasn't won any...

OK, then perhaps you could enlighten us about the division titles he's won.

Oh, wait he hasn't done that either.

OK, I'm sure if you go back far enough you'll find a big game he's won....

Oh, wait...he hasn't done that either.

Good thing he's got a cannon arm huh?

errand
09-22-2009, 03:27 PM
Jesus. Massive reading comprehension failure ITT. Do you agree with Karenin that having a lot of long completions (includes YAC) means that you are a good "downfield" passer?

Granted Orton's 25 yard completions are more the YAC than the throw...but are you seriously saying that our QB cannot throw the ball freaking 25 yards or more?

He wouldn't have made it on any NFL team if he couldn't throw the ball downfield. He's not Warren Moon, he's Kyle Orton, and his arm is strong enough to get the job done that he's been tasked with.

so tell us there dude...how far does a QB have to throw the ball downfield for you to claim he can?

Taco John
09-22-2009, 03:30 PM
It's fun reading errand making the same arguments in favor of Orton that I made in favor of Griese back in the day.

And he's right. So long as we keep protection on the guy, and the receivers do their job, and we can keep the running game going, Orton will be just fine.

errand
09-22-2009, 03:36 PM
What kinds of insecurities must exist in a mind that demands you agree with him, or else be subject to nonsensical insults thrown like baboon feces on a wall?

Popps seriously, what did Colonel say that led you to the dubious conclusion he wants the Broncos to lose? You are constantly painting others as wanting us to lose, where do you get that? How do you come to that conclusion?

You need to be more objective about your cronies postings....reminds me too much of the political forum on here where you guys kept posting negative threads galore that really made it hard for even casual observers to believe you loved America or supported our brave men and women in the armed forces.

this website is filled with people like those Popps has busted on who will post all kinds of negative threads after a loss. Look at the plethora of **** they posted after wins.

errand
09-22-2009, 03:38 PM
I'm still trying to figure out how a "severely" underthrown ball can go through someone's hands.

..I'm sorry, but this is funny...i don't care who you are.

errand
09-22-2009, 03:44 PM
Wow, I thought you said it was under thrown by 10 yards?

Look to me like it went about 5 yards past his teflon hands....

BroncoBuff
09-22-2009, 03:47 PM
Rep for being honest. You are a good man.

:pimp:

errand
09-22-2009, 03:49 PM
HAHA! ohhhh...the Irony! Kyle Orton is a backup QB--period-and he isn't even the best backup QB on our team. he is slow in his reads--lead footed and noodle armed--he has one legitimate TD pass this season in 64 attempts! ONE!!! Orton is only hitting on 55% of his passes!


--Shaun Hill has more TD's on less attempts than does Orton.
---Brodie Croyle has 2 TDs in 24 attempts!

..and Kyle Orton has 5 more wins as a starter than Jay Cutler.

--- Orton had 9 fewer losses as a starter than Cutler

----Orton has one more division title than Cutler

--- Orton has thrown 4 fewer int's this season than Cutler has.

--- Orton has one more conference championship ring than Cutler has.

----Orton has one more win this season than Cutler.

you still want to go down this ridiculous road your on?

Br0nc0Buster
09-22-2009, 03:54 PM
Orton is doing his job for the most part
Certainly has room for improvement, but in this offense he isnt going to be asked to carry this team to victory

We are seeing you dont need a rocket arm to produce plays down the field

Im excited to see how well our offense runs once everyone is on the same page and fas a full understanding of what to do

BroncoBuff
09-22-2009, 04:00 PM
You need to be more objective about your cronies postings....reminds me too much of the political forum on here where you guys kept posting negative threads galore that really made it hard for even casual observers to believe you loved America or supported our brave men and women in the armed forces.

this website is filled with people like those Popps has busted on who will post all kinds of negative threads after a loss. Look at the plethora of **** they posted after wins.

You're right .... I don't help matters by constantly calling him out (and fyi, he's not a crony of mine, not anymore anyway).

Yes, the website is filled with that kinda stuff. It's just my opinion his posts are the most hostile and mean-spirited on the site. By a good margin. Accusing any fan here of "wishing the Broncos to lose" crosses the line.

Then again, I've probably made that point enough times ... :deadhorse:

errand
09-22-2009, 04:05 PM
Here's a link...read the story, especially in the "personal" section of it. It bascially says that coming out of high school in '00 Orton could throw the ball over 70 yards...in fact he out threw NFL QB Jon Kitna in a QB challenge.


http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/4/19/840423/tales-who-is-kyle-orton

errand
09-22-2009, 04:16 PM
It's fun reading errand making the same arguments in favor of Orton that I made in favor of Griese back in the day.

And he's right. So long as we keep protection on the guy, and the receivers do their job, and we can keep the running game going, Orton will be just fine.

Sorry TJ...

Huge difference between my defending Orton and your defending Griese.

I have never said that "I know, when given protection Kyle Orton is the NFL's most efficient QB - bar none"

You have however made that very statement about Brian Griese. You've said QB's like Jeff Garcia and Tom Brady were average despite them winning and making playoffs, etc. you even once said that the QB position was an "afterthought".....and yet when the guy you have a man crush on is booted...all of a sudden who our QB is matters the most.

I defend Orton because he's being accused of not being able to do things that eyewitness reports and video proves he can in fact do.

My beef with Griese wasn't his lack of top notch arm strength (although I do believe he lost alot of it after his shoulder injury) as much as it was he couldn't lead a starving mob to a chow hall.

He wilted under pressure, he rarely won a big game if any for us, and we were mired in the same mediocrity that we were with Jay at the helm.

You have consistently come in here and defended QB's who lost more games than they have won (Griese, Cutler)...who did not led us to the playoffs, or a division title.

I have consistently come in here and defended QB's who have won more games than they lost (Brister, Frerotte, Plummer and now Orton) and who have led us to the playoffs as well ( Frerotte, Plummer).

...and anyone who has witnessed our battles over the QB subject knows you've always come down on the wrong side of it.

But don't take my word for it orangemaniacs...ask those who saw the confrontation like phillybroncosnut, popps, spider and the numerous others.

tsiguy96
09-22-2009, 04:18 PM
Orton is doing his job for the most part
Certainly has room for improvement, but in this offense he isnt going to be asked to carry this team to victory

We are seeing you dont need a rocket arm to produce plays down the field

Im excited to see how well our offense runs once everyone is on the same page and fas a full understanding of what to do

mcdaniels even said this is a team sport and he wont be asked to carry the team, as he shouldnt have to. there is times where he is gonna have to perform flawlessly, but his job is a ball distributor and let the real playmakers do their job, much like cassel last year who won 11 games with a questionable oline.

Popps
09-22-2009, 04:26 PM
Sorry TJ...

Huge difference between my defending Orton and your defending Griese.

I have never said that "I know, when given protection Kyle Orton is the NFL's most efficient QB - bar none"
.

http://lolcat.com/images/lolcats/492.jpg

Taco John
09-22-2009, 04:27 PM
Sorry TJ...

Huge difference between my defending Orton and your defending Griese.

I have never said that "I know, when given protection Kyle Orton is the NFL's most efficient QB - bar none"

I definitely said that about Griese, and it was true. Before his shoulder injury, Griese routinely put up 100+ passer rating games. He was easily the most efficient QB in the league in his pre-shoulder injury prime. Orton has shown this very same quality already. Orton isn't going to knock out any stadium lights with his arm, but he will manage a very efficient offense if everything around him is working just right.

Glad to see you've come around.

watermock
09-22-2009, 04:28 PM
I'm here.

We've won by a fluke , dominated a very poor Cleveland team in the second half at home, and play an Oakland team that managed a win aginst he Chefs with a fat QB with a 25% comp %..

I've allready explained how Bowlen could of fired Slowick on his own.

Nolans done an excellent job, and Doom has moved seamlessly. The D is vastly improved, tell ya what, we go 5-2 Beavis dissapears. Denver has yet to see a potent offense OR defense.

Taco John
09-22-2009, 04:38 PM
...and anyone who has witnessed our battles over the QB subject knows you've always come down on the wrong side of it.


Well, me being right about Plummer aside, we're on the same side now. And we have a much better team around Orton than we ever had around Griese. All Orton has to do is go out there, make good decisions, and let the team around him do the heavy lifting. It's what Griese taught him to do in Chicago (http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-191702966.html), and as we both know, despite the negative publicity that Orton got from the national and local media, he managed the offense quite efficiently.

I can understand people's apprehensions about the guy, but people should give him a fair chance to either sink or swim - and NOT try to sink him before he's even given a chance to show his worth. As far as that goes, I don't see anyone on this roster pushing him for the position. It's pretty clear that Orton gives us the best chance to win this season.

errand
09-22-2009, 04:44 PM
I noticed one thing in that game tape from last year that I haven't seen from him so far this season. He was relaxed and just playing football. He is still very tentative and out of sync with the receivers. Once he gets this system down and is able to just go out and play he'll surprise some folks. .

Exactly, we have no idea what his read progression is suppose to be despite all of us claiming infinite wisdom, and I'm positive McDaniels who has a rep as an offensive/QB guru has just as diverse a playbook as Shanahan did.

his plays are different from Ron Turner's and Mike's plays...and Kyle in my opinion is trying to process that playbook. He'll get more familiar with it as the season goes on, and he'll be more comfortable in the pocket running it

BroncoBuff
09-22-2009, 04:47 PM
In this rush to defend Orton here, and to criticize those who are not his biggest fans, you should remember he was pretty awful in preseason and against the Bengals, too.

The Browns game was actually the first time I've been impressed. The attitudes of some in here - the "we were right all along" take - is a bit premature.

Taco John
09-22-2009, 04:49 PM
In fairness, it should also be remembered that Orton is learning a new offense - and it's one of the more complicated ones in the league.

watermock
09-22-2009, 04:49 PM
Tell ya what. 5-3 Beavis dissapears, if he ever reappears.

BroncoBuff
09-22-2009, 04:52 PM
Tell ya what. 5-3 Beavis dissapears, if he ever reappears.

5-3 and he gets canned? No way ...

watermock
09-22-2009, 05:11 PM
My avatar.

BroncoBuff
09-22-2009, 05:13 PM
My avatar.

Okay I see. Good standard.

But no avatars now, what's up with that?

Br0nc0Buster
09-22-2009, 05:23 PM
In this rush to defend Orton here, and to criticize those who are not his biggest fans, you should remember he was pretty awful in preseason and against the Bengals, too.

The Browns game was actually the first time I've been impressed. The attitudes of some in here - the "we were right all along" take - is a bit premature.

Its a brand new offense, and that is what preseason is for

He was good last year in Chicago, we had a sample to base our opinions off of

Natedog24
09-22-2009, 05:39 PM
I'm still a bit skeptical of Denver's long term success with Orton at QB, but for the short term rebuilding project he seems like a great stop gap. Especially if he continues to play like he did Sunday against Cleveland. What I like most is he isn't turning the ball over a bunch and he is giving Denver's much improved defense a chance to win football games. His lack of arm strength really isn't much of a factor in this new offense because it is mostly a short passing game.

And you have to think, as he continues to grow more comfortable in this offense his numbers are only going to get better. Hopefully the Marshal issues are behind us now and BMarsh will begin to settle into the new offense and become the dominant force we all know he can be. We get Marshall running at 100% again and this offense will look a lot better if he can get on the same page with Orton.

Popcorn Sutton
09-22-2009, 05:45 PM
In this rush to defend Orton here, and to criticize those who are not his biggest fans, you should remember he was pretty awful in preseason and against the Bengals, too.

The Browns game was actually the first time I've been impressed. The attitudes of some in here - the "we were right all along" take - is a bit premature.

He was lackluster in the Bengals game but awful? Do you factor in 7 dropped passes in that awful? If a few of those passes are caught his completion percentage goes into the high 60s, maybe one or two of the drives end up in points and he's around 200 yards. It was far from impressive but to put it all on Orton is a disservice.

2KBack
09-22-2009, 05:52 PM
I think the Bengals will end up being a good team. I also believe we caught a break playing them week one instead of week 10. Both teams looked like it was week one and we came out with the win.

The Browns are bad. The Browns O is ranked 32 in total yards. 28th in passing yards and 27th in rushing. There D is ranked 25th as well. Hell the return game has the same amount of TDs (1) through two games.

Um...the Browns are potentially bad, but using their ranking for this season may be deceiving at the moment. They did play one of the top defenses in the league week one and Denver's defense seems to be improved. There's not a lot of data to pull from yet.

BroncoBuff
09-22-2009, 06:01 PM
Mike Klis appears to support Orton. From his mailbag today:

All I can see is that Kyle Orton wins games whether anybody believes it or
not. Just look at his record. I am a Bears fan. Kyle has been on some Bears
teams without much offensive talent. And if the Bears defense hadn't given
away a couple of games last year and made the playoffs, you or somebody
else would have Jay Cutler. -- John Poncher, Valparaiso, Ind.

Did you realize Tom Brady, who operates the same offense in New England as
Orton does in Denver, ranks 26th in the NFL with a mere 5.94 yards per pass
attempt, while Orton is eighth at 7.79 yards? Cutler, by the way, is 17th at
6.93 per pass attempt.

As for Orton's record, which is now 23-12 overall, he was 9-6 last year and he
should have been 10-5 after he threw a go-ahead TD pass with 11 seconds
remaining to give the Bears a 20-19 lead against Atlanta. But one poor squib
kick, one long pass completion by Matt Ryan, and one long field goal by Jason
Elam as time expired wound up costing the Bears a playoff spot and
eventually led them into the Cutler sweepstakes.

Cutler is good but I don't think he and a draft pick that turned out to be
Jonny Knox are good enough to offset a decent Orton, and draft picks that
turned out to be Robert Ayers, Richard Quinn and a first-rounder in
2010.

"Tom Brady ranks 26th in the NFL with a mere 5.94 yards per pass
attempt, while Orton is eighth at 7.79 yards."

Wonder what the average would be without the 87-yard Immaculate Deflection....

No1BroncoFan
09-22-2009, 08:15 PM
Mike Klis appears to support Orton. From his mailbag today:



"Tom Brady ranks 26th in the NFL with a mere 5.94 yards per pass
attempt, while Orton is eighth at 7.79 yards."

Wonder what the average would be without the 87-yard Immaculate Deflection....
65 attempts - 506 yards - 7.79 yards per attempt
65 attempts - 419 yards (taken away the 87 yarder) - 6.45 yards per attempt

Oops, still ahead of Brady.

Ben

Popps
09-22-2009, 08:19 PM
65 attempts - 506 yards - 7.79 yards per attempt
65 attempts - 419 yards (taken away the 87 yarder) - 6.45 yards per attempt

Oops, still ahead of Brady.

Ben

Ben!

'Sup brother!!

Popps
09-22-2009, 08:25 PM
Sorry TJ...

You have consistently come in here and defended QB's who lost more games than they have won (Griese, Cutler)...who did not led us to the playoffs, or a division title.
...and anyone who has witnessed our battles over the QB subject knows you've always come down on the wrong side of it. .

Errand,

Bragging about outsmarting Taco about the QB position is like pushing a handicapped kid down the steps. Sure, it's easy... but you really shouldn't be boasting about it.

Taco is the single best contrarian indicator of QB success on this forum. It definitely worries me that he seems willing to support Orton. The dude is just doomed to fail now.

Hilarious!

BroncoBuff
09-22-2009, 08:30 PM
65 attempts - 506 yards - 7.79 yards per attempt
65 attempts - 419 yards (taken away the 87 yarder) - 6.45 yards per attempt

Oops, still ahead of Brady.

Ben
Good job on the stats there. That's fine and all, but you're
not really comparing the two, are you?

DBroncos4life
09-22-2009, 08:42 PM
Um...the Browns are potentially bad, but using their ranking for this season may be deceiving at the moment. They did play one of the top defenses in the league week one and Denver's defense seems to be improved. There's not a lot of data to pull from yet.

LOL sure thing boss. This is a very poor O, all the way back to last year. What did they do to improve? The answer is not a damn thing. Lewis is one year older then last year, and Winslow is gone. You can bump this thread and the end of the year if you want but the Browns O will be in the bottom 5 in total yards and points scored in the NFL>

Steve Prefontaine
09-22-2009, 08:42 PM
Granted Orton's 25 yard completions are more the YAC than the throw...
So you are agreeing with the only point I was trying to make ITT.

But yet you still go off on some unrelated rant that I can only guess you misdirected towards me...

but are you seriously saying that our QB cannot throw the ball freaking 25 yards or more?
Where did I say that? Please quote.

He wouldn't have made it on any NFL team if he couldn't throw the ball downfield. He's not Warren Moon, he's Kyle Orton, and his arm is strong enough to get the job done that he's been tasked with.
I agree he can (i.e. has the ability) to throw the ball 25+ yards, but does that make him a good downfield passer? At the very least, doesn't accuracy and anticipation factor in?

so tell us there dude...how far does a QB have to throw the ball downfield for you to claim he can?
Um, I'm not doubting that Orton can throw the ball far. Once again, the ability to physically throw the ball far does not necessarily make you a good downfield passer.

BMarsh615
09-23-2009, 07:57 AM
Kyle Orton ranks first among NFL QBs in the fourth quarter with a near-perfect 152.1 passer rating (8-of-10, 215 yds., 1 TD, 0 INT)

https://twitter.com/schube13

Hulamau
09-23-2009, 11:57 AM
Russell does suck, but he has one thing going for him ... he's so huge it's like trying to tackle a cement block ... did you see that play Sunday where the chef looked like he had a sack? He was wrapped around his legs but Russell wouldn't go down, he just stood there! ROFL!

Dumervil is giving up 50-60 pounds to that guy !

more like 20 to 30lbs tops

broncofan7
09-23-2009, 12:09 PM
Kyle Orton ranks first among NFL QBs in the fourth quarter with a near-perfect 152.1 passer rating (8-of-10, 215 yds., 1 TD, 0 INT)

https://twitter.com/schube13
Ha!

Subtract 87 yards and the SINGLE TD from that total --that was merely DUMB LUCK and not skill in the least @ Cincy--if it was skill--why did he WAIT UNTIL WE WERE DOWN IN THE 4TH QTR TO COMPLETE SUCH A PASS AND HOW COME HE HAS NOT COMPLETED ONE SINCE? Brodie Croyle's QB rating is 116 and he has just as many TD's in almost 50 less attempts......

Hulamau
09-23-2009, 12:14 PM
Russell does suck, but he has one thing going for him ... he's so huge it's like trying to tackle a cement block ... did you see that play Sunday where the chef looked like he had a sack? He was wrapped around his legs but Russell wouldn't go down, he just stood there! ROFL!

Dumervil is giving up 50-60 pounds to that guy !

more like 20 to 30lbs tops

No1BroncoFan
09-23-2009, 04:21 PM
Good job on the stats there. That's fine and all, but you're
not really comparing the two, are you?
Nope. Just answering your question.
Wonder what the average would be without the 87-yard Immaculate Deflection....

Ben!

'Sup brother!!
Not much. I've become mostly a lurker around here. This site has devolved into such a war zone that it's just not much fun to post anymore. Everyone gets labeled as a "nutswinger" or a "hater" simply for voicing an opinion. It gets old after a while.

Ben