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Mediator12
09-21-2009, 10:03 AM
Alright, I have 2 weeks of film on every team in the league and feel confident in assessing exactly where DEN stands from an individual and NFL perspective to the level of play.

Let's start on Offense:

1. DEN can run the ball still, but certainly looks better running zone plays than a lot of the new running scheme McDaniels brought with him. The running backs are all quite capable except Jordan who still misses opportunities.

2. The OL has been brilliant again in protection, despite completely changing most of what they do. Orton has been taking a lot of 5 and 7 step drops and has plenty of time. Orton also has been able to avoid several sacks because the rest of the OL has held when a single defender has gotten through.

3. The passing offense is really off. I mean, no one is making the same reads on coverages and the WR's have not been getting open well enough. Orton will get a lot of the blame, but the WR's need the lions share. ANY WR should get open after 4-5 seconds of protection, but DEN's WR's are really struggling. I seriously think McD needs to simplify the passing packages, especially the hot reads, until this group gets it. It looks ugly because no one is on the same page. (Marshall gets a lot of blame for this being out of camp!).

4. Overall, this is a potent offense despite being off in the passing game to start the year. This is NOT just a DEN problem either. A lot of teams are struggling with their passing game timing, including the PATS without McD. Their offense has looked less than average through 2 contests. It should keep getting better over time, but they need to make it simpler in the short run.

DEFENSE:

1. The front seven has so much more gap discipline this year, it makes it look like they are playing better. It is amazing what a HUGE difference that makes. In fact, they are winning at the POA much more than last year, but still not enough to shut down solid running teams. The run defense is predicated on inside/outside principles and they have effectively closed route 1 up the middle consistently. I would expect teams to start running outside more and trying to loosen that up. Then, we will truly see where the run defense stands.

2. Pass rush is much better, but still dependent on Elvis. CLE did a much better job handling DEN's blitz schemes than CIN did, but Elvis took St. Clair to school. He did not do much versus Joe Thomas though and DEN got little pressure outside that. In fact, Quinn left a lot of yards on the field like Orton did in week one and 2.

3. Secondary is hot and cold still. Several glaring blown coverages versus both Ohio teams, yet they were very stout in the red zone and did not give up a homerun TD. That in and of itself is a HUGE improvement. They are supporting the run and blitzing better than the last 2 years, but they are showing signs of vulnerability when their coverage disguises are not working.

4. Overall, I would say this unit has played better than the sum of its parts to this point. That is the sign of excellent coaching, and even better execution of the scheme by the players. The players on defense have responded MUCH better than the players on offense to the new changes. However, that is par for the course for the whole NFL at this point. The teams who are having huge offensive success are the talented offenses from the past, minus NE. Almost all of the offenses that have changed significantly have been wildly inconsistent.

ST's:

1. Doing MUCH better on coverage units. They kept Joshua Cribbs under wraps and that is saying something.

2. Prater: Did not play the wind well at all yesterday and it cost DEN 6 points. However, it is better to miss those and learn now, than miss and lose later.

3. Punting was pretty good overall and allowed coverage units to get to Cribbs yesterday.

4. Returns still need work and to be much more consistent.


Overall, DEN looks like a middle of the pack team right now. They are behind on offense and ahead on defense. That can carry a team for 3-4 weeks at the beginning of the season. Remember, DEN has had to do that under Shanahan several times until the offense started to click.

That is how I see it to this point. 2 solid games of film to look to evaluate and two weeks worth of every NFL game except tonights game reviewed. DEN has a legit chance to win this division if they can limit the Chargers big plays by their WR's. OAK and KC are better than most thought preseason as well, but their upside is much less than DEN right now.

Steve Prefontaine
09-21-2009, 10:06 AM
Great read. Thanks Med!

Mr.Meanie
09-21-2009, 10:07 AM
Great analysis!

gyldenlove
09-21-2009, 10:19 AM
3. The passing offense is really off. I mean, no one is making the same reads on coverages and the WR's have not been getting open well enough. Orton will get a lot of the blame, but the WR's need the lions share. ANY WR should get open after 4-5 seconds of protection, but DEN's WR's are really struggling. I seriously think McD needs to simplify the passing packages, especially the hot reads, until this group gets it. It looks ugly because no one is on the same page. (Marshall gets a lot of blame for this being out of camp!).

That one doesn't make much sense to me. Orton has consistently been afraid of trying to hit people in 1 on 1 and because he holds the ball for so long people are being covered in the routes they use. You will notice we have not been using double moves nearly as much which is the only routes you really need a long time to develope. We are using a lot of simple one cut routes and when running those the QB has to get the ball out to the WR right after the cut when the WR has a step or two, if you wait too long the CB can catch up.

We saw Royal run a good double move yesterday and get open and Orton got the ball there, when Marshall got on the field Orton also seemed comfortable giving him the ball in situations when Marshall can screen the defender.

I am still surprised we are not using the tight ends more, a lot of the passing we are doing is going to the sideline and especially yesterday when we saw a lot of safeties in the box and in man cover it would have been obvious to challenge down the middle.

I thought the WRs looked pretty good yesterday expect for Royal who was pretty much a non-factor, I hope that he gets to run more double moves which he is good at and where his quickness will be able to get him open.

The zone blocking is looking good and both Buckhalter and Moreno are good at seeing the lanes and hitting them with conviction, I love how there is no dancing, if nothing is open then you just lower the pads and hit the defender and get a couple. That is the kind of no-nonsense we need.

2KBack
09-21-2009, 10:21 AM
I like that you managed to both temper over enthusiasm and leave room for optimism. Nicely balanced.

Rohirrim
09-21-2009, 10:28 AM
That was the biggest issue I had yesterday: The receivers. They didn't recognize the blitz. I didn't even see a hot read. They didn't come back to the QB when plays broke down. They obviously are not synched up with the QB given how many passes landed on empty grass. The only one doing his job right now is Stokely.

But I also still get the impression that McD is tryiing to impose an offense on players whether they fit that concept or not, instead of adapting his concept to the players he has. There's a lot of awkwardness coming out of the O on the field. Very little synchronization or fluidity.

Popcorn Sutton
09-21-2009, 10:28 AM
Nice post Med.

I too hope they start attacking the middle of the field more. Especially if teams play us like Cleveland did by bring the safety down in the box. It would be interesting to see them run Scheffler up the seam early in the game to establish the deep middle of the field. This may help to get the run game going a bit earlier than they did yesterday.

Mediator12
09-21-2009, 10:30 AM
That one doesn't make much sense to me. Orton has consistently been afraid of trying to hit people in 1 on 1 and because he holds the ball for so long people are being covered in the routes they use. You will notice we have not been using double moves nearly as much which is the only routes you really need a long time to develope. We are using a lot of simple one cut routes and when running those the QB has to get the ball out to the WR right after the cut when the WR has a step or two, if you wait too long the CB can catch up.

We saw Royal run a good double move yesterday and get open and Orton got the ball there, when Marshall got on the field Orton also seemed comfortable giving him the ball in situations when Marshall can screen the defender.

I am still surprised we are not using the tight ends more, a lot of the passing we are doing is going to the sideline and especially yesterday when we saw a lot of safeties in the box and in man cover it would have been obvious to challenge down the middle.

I thought the WRs looked pretty good yesterday expect for Royal who was pretty much a non-factor, I hope that he gets to run more double moves which he is good at and where his quickness will be able to get him open.

The zone blocking is looking good and both Buckhalter and Moreno are good at seeing the lanes and hitting them with conviction, I love how there is no dancing, if nothing is open then you just lower the pads and hit the defender and get a couple. That is the kind of no-nonsense we need.

Orton is not going to force balls into 1 on 1 coverage if there is no seperation, even if it is man coverage with their back turned. That is what was the problem in the first half yesterday. CLE played tight coverage and the WR's, outside of Stokely, failed to read the safeties in order to compensate. More than once, Royal ran into a double team instead of away from it.

As far as the routes are concerned, the WR's are not getting initial seperation enough to have the ball thrown early and on time. Plus, they are not breaking off their routes where the QB expects them to be. Now, that could be an either/or thing, however the QB is throwing the ball to where the coverage has not been. It is hard to call that the fault of the QB, unlike Romo last night who threw the ball twice to where the coverage was and the WR broke to where it was not.

Popcorn Sutton
09-21-2009, 10:32 AM
That was the biggest issue I had yesterday: The receivers. They didn't recognize the blitz. I didn't even see a hot read. They didn't come back to the QB when plays broke down. They obviously are not synched up with the QB given how many passes landed on empty grass. The only one doing his job right now is Stokely.

Yep, I hope it's a point of emphasis this week in practice.

bpc
09-21-2009, 10:33 AM
Just a note that I saw during the games, two of the sacks that Doom had, Ayers was about a step and a half behind him. If Elvis doesn't seal the deal, I think Ayers picks up those sacks or at least hits the QB and forces a pass into coverage.

It was pleasantly surprising to see him working into some of the nickel defenses, and also being effective. Granted, I only noticed him two or three plays and I was watching from a sports bar.

Rock Chalk
09-21-2009, 10:37 AM
spdirty says its all Orton's fault all the time.

jhns
09-21-2009, 10:39 AM
I like and agree with most of this review. It is a very good breakdown.

The passing game is the fault of the QB though. Our receivers will never match what they did with Cutler while they play with Orton. You can take that two ways though. Cutler would still throw to them with a guy or two on them and they had a ton of catches that way but it also resulted in some bad stuff.

Orton is only throwing it to wide open guys and when he doesn't, the passes don't usually work. He isn't very accurate and doesn't use the zip to get it by defenders.

Our reveivers are playing just as they always have. Another thing is all receivers are seeing more coverage when Marshall is sitting. I hope he can work out whatever problems he is having now(don't know what made him sit yesterday) so he can get out there.

broncosteven
09-21-2009, 10:42 AM
Orton is not going to force balls into 1 on 1 coverage if there is no seperation, even if it is man coverage with their back turned. That is what was the problem in the first half yesterday. CLE played tight coverage and the WR's, outside of Stokely, failed to read the safeties in order to compensate. More than once, Royal ran into a double team instead of away from it.

As far as the routes are concerned, the WR's are not getting initial seperation enough to have the ball thrown early and on time. Plus, they are not breaking off their routes where the QB expects them to be. Now, that could be an either/or thing, however the QB is throwing the ball to where the coverage has not been. It is hard to call that the fault of the QB, unlike Romo last night who threw the ball twice to where the coverage was and the WR broke to where it was not.

Royal looks lost this year, I think Marshall is playing on talent right now, once he understands the system he should be dominant again.

Plus Orton is not taking chances with the ball, it is almost like McDaniels will take out a fingernail for each INT, so instead of taking a chance he throws it away and lives to fight another day. This may hurt more when we get behind against the better teams but it has worked so far.

Mr.Meanie
09-21-2009, 10:43 AM
Just a note that I saw during the games, two of the sacks that Doom had, Ayers was about a step and a half behind him. If Elvis doesn't seal the deal, I think Ayers picks up those sacks or at least hits the QB and forces a pass into coverage.

It was pleasantly surprising to see him working into some of the nickel defenses, and also being effective. Granted, I only noticed him two or three plays and I was watching from a sports bar.

I noticed that too. I thought Ayers had a good game.

Rock Chalk
09-21-2009, 10:43 AM
I like and agree with most of this review. It is a very good breakdown.

The passing game is the fault of the QB though. Our receivers will never match what they did with Cutler while they play with Orton. You can take that two ways though. Cutler would still throw to them with a guy or two on them and they had a ton of catches that way but it also resulted in some bad stuff.

Orton is only throwing it to wide open guys and when he doesn't, the passes don't usually work. He isn't very accurate and doesn't use the zip to get it by defenders.

Our reveivers are playing just as they always have. Another thing is all receivers are seeing more coverage when Marshall is sitting. I hope he can work out whatever problems he is having now(don't know what made him sit yesterday) so he can get out there.

OUr receviers didn't get open much yesterday. But hey, its all Orton's fault.

Nevermind that the receivers aren't finding the holes in the zones and cant get separation on Man coverage.

Its all Orton's fault.

Nevermind that I see other teams receivers getting wide open all over the place.

Its all Orton's fault.

You are such a tool.

2KBack
09-21-2009, 10:44 AM
Just a note that I saw during the games, two of the sacks that Doom had, Ayers was about a step and a half behind him. If Elvis doesn't seal the deal, I think Ayers picks up those sacks or at least hits the QB and forces a pass into coverage.

It was pleasantly surprising to see him working into some of the nickel defenses, and also being effective. Granted, I only noticed him two or three plays and I was watching from a sports bar.

I saw the same, and was doubly impressed because is looked like he was going up against Joe Thomas at the time and not looking too bad.

jhns
09-21-2009, 10:46 AM
OUr receviers didn't get open much yesterday. But hey, its all Orton's fault.

Nevermind that the receivers aren't finding the holes in the zones and cant get separation on Man coverage.

Its all Orton's fault.

Nevermind that I see other teams receivers getting wide open all over the place.

Its all Orton's fault.

You are such a tool.

Did I hurt your feelings with what I said? I'm sorry if I did, that wasn't my intention.

Mediator12
09-21-2009, 10:48 AM
I like and agree with most of this review. It is a very good breakdown.

The passing game is the fault of the QB though. Our receivers will never match what they did with Cutler while they play with Orton. You can take that two ways though. Cutler would still throw to them with a guy or two on them and they had a ton of catches that way but it also resulted in some bad stuff.

Orton is only throwing it to wide open guys and when he doesn't, the passes don't usually work. He isn't very accurate and doesn't use the zip to get it by defenders.

Our reveivers are playing just as they always have. Another thing is all receivers are seeing more coverage when Marshall is sitting. I hope he can work out whatever problems he is having now(don't know what made him sit yesterday) so he can get out there.


I will say this again, when your WR's misread coverage and run into double coverage instead of away from it, that is the WR's fault. When the QB reads where the safeties and other defenders are and consistently throws away from that, that is the WR's fault. Orton did not throw one ball into double coverage that was not wide open anyway.

I like that. He kept it simple and secure. By the second half, DEN made the proper adjustments and were much more succesful after the WR's realized the actual coverages they were facing. When they did, the offense was much more effective. The only times they were not was when they blew hot reads on blitzes.

jhns
09-21-2009, 11:09 AM
I will say this again, when your WR's misread coverage and run into double coverage instead of away from it, that is the WR's fault. When the QB reads where the safeties and other defenders are and consistently throws away from that, that is the WR's fault. Orton did not throw one ball into double coverage that was not wide open anyway.

I like that. He kept it simple and secure. By the second half, DEN made the proper adjustments and were much more succesful after the WR's realized the actual coverages they were facing. When they did, the offense was much more effective. The only times they were not was when they blew hot reads on blitzes.

Yeah, I'm not saying it is ortons fault in the sense that he made bad reads. He made some good ones as you say. I was saying our receivers did that all of last year but jay throws into coverage even when the receivers went into coverage or were jsut covered the entire time. That is a good and very bad part of Jays game. He had the ability to make it work but it also caused a lot of bad.

The only thing I was trying to say is our receivers won't match their stats from last year because orton doesn't throw to them in these situations that Cutler used to. They were never wide open every play. I guess when I said it is ortons fault it kind of throws it off. It is ortons fault but it is a good thing if you don't want him throwing into coverage.

I will say this one other way to make sure guys like rock chalk understand and don't have to get so upset. Our receivers won't look as good as last year because they were targeted even when they were covered with Jay. That gave them better stats than if they were only targeted when they were wide open. This means our passing game will never look as good in the stats but the fewer bad plays could be very good for the team. Orton won't give our receivers as many chances as Jay did. This will be ok as long as our defense stays good. We are a ball control offense now.

gyldenlove
09-21-2009, 11:12 AM
I will say this again, when your WR's misread coverage and run into double coverage instead of away from it, that is the WR's fault. When the QB reads where the safeties and other defenders are and consistently throws away from that, that is the WR's fault. Orton did not throw one ball into double coverage that was not wide open anyway.

I like that. He kept it simple and secure. By the second half, DEN made the proper adjustments and were much more succesful after the WR's realized the actual coverages they were facing. When they did, the offense was much more effective. The only times they were not was when they blew hot reads on blitzes.

In at least 3 situations yesterday when Orton threw the ball away he had a tight end wide open in a check down position. In each situation Orton was locked into a target on one side who never got open and instead of going through his progressions he ended up throwing the ball away.

It is not Ortons fault that people are not getting open on simple routes down field, but he is not very good at scanning the field for another target, he seems to lock on and throw the ball away more than looking for his hot read or check down option.

Cito Pelon
09-21-2009, 11:47 AM
I disagree with your O analysis in that the pocket protection has been brilliant. Orton has been under heavy pressure on about 70% of his dropbacks. He has about 2 seconds to get rid of the ball or move most of the time. He's been taking long dropbacks and that's part of the problem. However, that does sucker teams into screen plays. They haven't done well with the spread O, without some extra protect from the TE's chipping.

I'd like to see the 'new' run blocking scheme work better, because that way you avoid retaliation like Shaun Rodgers did against Moreno with the facemask. Rodgers was pissed because he got cutblocked and the next chance he got he tried to twist Moreno's head off his shoulders.

I agree the passing O was out of sync and the WR's were not reading right. Orton was throwing the ball away a lot when he did have time. The WR's had their backs to the LOS too much, way too much actually.

D, I agree there was some glaring blown coverages, but I was heartened to see the quick adjustments. They're dependent on Elvis right now, absolutely, but I was heartened to see Ayers step up some when Haggans went down. I'm heartened to see the rookies Phonz and McBath play well also. It was interesting to see a lot of rookies and second teamers on D during CLE's last two drives. It was smart of McNolan to do that.

ST's, it was good to see the Phonz smoothly field the punts and get some yards. It's good to have a lot of competent returners. McKinley can also return, he's a good rookie also. I agree, the coverage teams were tasked stop Cribbs, and they did it. I liked also how the returners picked right up after Royal was gassed.

Traveler
09-21-2009, 11:53 AM
Med,

Have you watched specific players? Seems to me that Ryan Harris is getting beat moreso than last year. Wonder if his back is bothering him more than we know?

Rock Chalk
09-21-2009, 12:07 PM
I saw the same, and was doubly impressed because is looked like he was going up against Joe Thomas at the time and not looking too bad.

And Joe Thomas held in on 3 consecutive plays, 2 of which were the Dumervil back-to-back sacks.

The one thing I noticed specifically on those plays was that Ayers didn't try a swim or a spin or anything to get around Thomas after he got stood up and held but he did keep pushing Thomas back towards Quinn.

Guy needs a bit more coaching up and he should be OK towards the second half of the season.

ludo21
09-21-2009, 12:09 PM
as usual Med makes a great post! Thanks man.

Good to see some level headedness around here!

Mogulseeker
09-21-2009, 12:26 PM
That one doesn't make much sense to me. Orton has consistently been afraid of trying to hit people in 1 on 1 and because he holds the ball for so long people are being covered in the routes they use. You will notice we have not been using double moves nearly as much which is the only routes you really need a long time to develope. We are using a lot of simple one cut routes and when running those the QB has to get the ball out to the WR right after the cut when the WR has a step or two, if you wait too long the CB can catch up.

We saw Royal run a good double move yesterday and get open and Orton got the ball there, when Marshall got on the field Orton also seemed comfortable giving him the ball in situations when Marshall can screen the defender.

I am still surprised we are not using the tight ends more, a lot of the passing we are doing is going to the sideline and especially yesterday when we saw a lot of safeties in the box and in man cover it would have been obvious to challenge down the middle.

I thought the WRs looked pretty good yesterday expect for Royal who was pretty much a non-factor, I hope that he gets to run more double moves which he is good at and where his quickness will be able to get him open.

The zone blocking is looking good and both Buckhalter and Moreno are good at seeing the lanes and hitting them with conviction, I love how there is no dancing, if nothing is open then you just lower the pads and hit the defender and get a couple. That is the kind of no-nonsense we need.


Orton missed a couple of big plays... BUT he hasn't thrown an INT yet.

It's encouraging that a lot of the incompletions Orton is throwing are on misreads on the option and timing routes, because A. Orton will get better as he learns the system, and B. Some of them could very well be the receivers fault.

Mediator12
09-21-2009, 12:52 PM
In at least 3 situations yesterday when Orton threw the ball away he had a tight end wide open in a check down position. In each situation Orton was locked into a target on one side who never got open and instead of going through his progressions he ended up throwing the ball away.

It is not Ortons fault that people are not getting open on simple routes down field, but he is not very good at scanning the field for another target, he seems to lock on and throw the ball away more than looking for his hot read or check down option.

I agree that he is missing some of his checkdown reads. However, I think alot of that is because he knew if the WR made the right read he would be 1 on 1 and that was a preferable throw to a checkdown. He was trying to get the ball to the WR in a better situation than the TE. Once he saw the WR break in the wrong direction, he was in a bad position read wise. He was now late in going through his progressions.

That is the blessing and the curse of this timing offense. It is virtually unstoppable when executed as drawn up, but it really is out of whack if people are not on the same page. The QB wants to get the better play before he checks down and as you said they had a lot of single coverage early if the WR reads it right. You saw the adjustments in the second half and they were much more succesful as Orton did check down quicker versus their coverages. The WR's also did a better job of reading their coverages and making more plays downfield.

As far as the blame thing, it is really Mcdaniels not getting them ready for that. There is no way players should be that out of sorts on their reads the second game of the season. It is not like Mangini threw some exotic defenses out there to confuse them. Coaches need to have their players prepared for that by week 2.....

Cito Pelon
09-21-2009, 01:14 PM
Orton is not going to force balls into 1 on 1 coverage if there is no seperation, even if it is man coverage with their back turned. That is what was the problem in the first half yesterday. CLE played tight coverage and the WR's, outside of Stokely, failed to read the safeties in order to compensate. More than once, Royal ran into a double team instead of away from it.

As far as the routes are concerned, the WR's are not getting initial seperation enough to have the ball thrown early and on time. Plus, they are not breaking off their routes where the QB expects them to be. Now, that could be an either/or thing, however the QB is throwing the ball to where the coverage has not been. It is hard to call that the fault of the QB, unlike Romo last night who threw the ball twice to where the coverage was and the WR broke to where it was not.

Good points. There was some failure of reading the D by the WR's. They had their backs turned to the QB too often.

In fairness to Royal, he was gassed for whatever reason in the 2nd Q (had to get intravenous fluids at halftime). He should have been out, but Marshall wasn't doing a good job either, so the team was a little short on effective WR's in the first half. The team pariah Marshall stood up in the 2nd half. Stokley went over and gave him a pat on the helmet in the 2nd half, maybe that can heal some wounds.

Rohirrim
09-21-2009, 01:20 PM
Good points. There was some failure of reading the D by the WR's. They had their backs turned to the QB too often.

In fairness to Royal, he was gassed for whatever reason in the 2nd Q (had to get intravenous fluids at halftime). He should have been out, but Marshall wasn't doing a good job either, so the team was a little short on effective WR's in the first half. The team pariah Marshall stood up in the 2nd half. Stokley went over and gave him a pat on the helmet in the 2nd half, maybe that can heal some wounds.

To be honest, watching that game, about half way through I thought that Royal and Hillis were playing like guys with the flu. Even when Hillis made the TD, he just went back to the bench, sat down and put his head down. And Royal is usually a lot more energetic. I know the new regime doesn't let any news like that out to the public, but that's what it looked like to me.

Cito Pelon
09-21-2009, 01:28 PM
I will say this again, when your WR's misread coverage and run into double coverage instead of away from it, that is the WR's fault. When the QB reads where the safeties and other defenders are and consistently throws away from that, that is the WR's fault. Orton did not throw one ball into double coverage that was not wide open anyway.

I like that. He kept it simple and secure. By the second half, DEN made the proper adjustments and were much more succesful after the WR's realized the actual coverages they were facing. When they did, the offense was much more effective. The only times they were not was when they blew hot reads on blitzes.

Yup.

barryr
09-21-2009, 01:36 PM
If the Colts win tonight, their coach joins only the Jets and McDaniels as the new coaches this season who have started out 2-0 this season. Lions, Browns, Rams, Seattle, Tampa, and Chiefs all have new coaches. I might be missing a team or two. Singletary and the 49ers could be added, but he coaches some games late last season, so isn't entirely new.

UboBronco
09-21-2009, 02:04 PM
To be honest, watching that game, about half way through I thought that Royal and Hillis were playing like guys with the flu. Even when Hillis made the TD, he just went back to the bench, sat down and put his head down. And Royal is usually a lot more energetic. I know the new regime doesn't let any news like that out to the public, but that's what it looked like to me.

I thought the same thing, neither one of them looked like they were as intense and focused as usual.

Hope that is all it was. I still think Hillis will be a 10-12 TD guy before the season is over, and soon Royal will have the breakout game in the new system. Maybe that will happen after Marshall gets his head on straight to take some of the double coverage away from Eddie.

TonyR
09-21-2009, 02:24 PM
...I thought that Royal and Hillis were playing like guys with the flu. Even when Hillis made the TD, he just went back to the bench, sat down and put his head down. And Royal is usually a lot more energetic.

Funny, I thought the same thing. Particularly with Hillis, he just didn't look happy. Like maybe mad about the limited role. And a couple of times Royal didn't seem to have the quicks and the burst I expect from him. I could be totally making this up but they almost looked like they were pouting. I admit I could be completely misreading this but thought interesting that someone else noticed, too.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-21-2009, 02:28 PM
To be honest, watching that game, about half way through I thought that Royal and Hillis were playing like guys with the flu. Even when Hillis made the TD, he just went back to the bench, sat down and put his head down. And Royal is usually a lot more energetic. I know the new regime doesn't let any news like that out to the public, but that's what it looked like to me.

Good call. Royal looked pretty lethargic all game, even dropped a pass...and if he's getting an IV at halftime, i bet he did have it

TonyR
09-21-2009, 02:33 PM
...This is NOT just a DEN problem either. A lot of teams are struggling with their passing game timing, including the PATS without McD. Their offense has looked less than average through 2 contests.


Lot's of talk that Tom Brady is bothered by, and hesitant because of, his knee. Jaworski, as one example, noted that he's not "following through" on his throws (see item linked below from before Sunday's games). He doesn't seem comfortable on that knee yet and he's afraid of getting hit. Plus they really missed Welker yesterday.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/09/20/jaworski-brady-isnt-following-through/

Popps
09-21-2009, 03:04 PM
3. The passing offense is really off. I mean, no one is making the same reads on coverages and the WR's have not been getting open well enough. Orton will get a lot of the blame, but the WR's need the lions share. ANY WR should get open after 4-5 seconds of protection.

Wow!

I just asked this same EXACT question yesterday, and you being one of the best X's and O's guys here... now I feel like it's even more legitimate to wonder. I really don't feel like we're getting enough separation. I'm not sure what to blame it on, because our guys are talented. I think it's likely a result of guys still needing to learn the intricacies of the offense.

But, I agree... people will pin it on Orton and sometimes that may be the case. But, you have to look at what he's seeing, and I just wonder if he's got guys open enough to feel comfortable making throws. Clearly, McDaniels has instructed him not to take stupid chances... which has worked in our favor. But, it does seem like our receivers have enough time to run these routes... and still aren't as open as they should be.

The running game wlll help, as it improves, of course.


If you and I see this, you can be sure the staff does. So, I expect more plays to be put in place to help pry open more receivers.

Good thread, Med.

RunSilentRunDeep
09-21-2009, 03:18 PM
It's not surprising Orton leaned on the wise-veteran Stokley yesterday. Royal was so good last year we forget he's just a pup. Gaffney has missed two weeks and Marshall has missed pretty much everything.

Remember, both Moss and Welker (two smart football guys) said they spent the whole first year in the offense trying to figure out where to lineup. It's going to improve each week.

anon
09-21-2009, 03:37 PM
Personally, I'd prefer Orton's safer way of playing than have him take chances trying to "make things happen." It's not quite time for that. I think it's obvious one of McNolan's points of emphasis is to play good, solid fundamental football in all phases and limiting turnovers is a key part of that.

If our defense is for real and can limit big plays -- something that has always been a problem here, even going back to Coyer -- then having a safe passing offense with a good running attack will be enough to keep us in most games. But Prater better get his head right, because we'll need him.

c_lazy_r
09-21-2009, 04:30 PM
If I recall, Royal got blasted/fallen on several plays early in the game. I'll bet he was banged up.

If I was Hillis I'd be kinda pissed too. He isn't getting a chance to show what he can do. Even though every time he has been asked to do anything, he's excelled. Sucks for him.

baja
09-21-2009, 06:33 PM
In at least 3 situations yesterday when Orton threw the ball away he had a tight end wide open in a check down position. In each situation Orton was locked into a target on one side who never got open and instead of going through his progressions he ended up throwing the ball away.

It is not Ortons fault that people are not getting open on simple routes down field, but he is not very good at scanning the field for another target, he seems to lock on and throw the ball away more than looking for his hot read or check down option.


I hope this is true because it is very fixable.

Popps
09-21-2009, 07:35 PM
Personally, I'd prefer Orton's safer way of playing than have him take chances trying to "make things happen." It's not quite time for that. I think it's obvious one of McNolan's points of emphasis is to play good, solid fundamental football in all phases and limiting turnovers is a key part of that.

If our defense is for real and can limit big plays -- something that has always been a problem here, even going back to Coyer -- then having a safe passing offense with a good running attack will be enough to keep us in most games. But Prater better get his head right, because we'll need him.

I agree. The style of football we're playing is going to give us a chance to stay in some games that we might not have stayed in last year. I'm really excited to see if we can crank the running game up a bit. That eventually needs to be our bread and butter.

It's just fundamental football. Play D, run the ball, make plays on special teams. It's an old formula that still works.

broncofan7
09-21-2009, 08:23 PM
Alright, I have 2 weeks of film on every team in the league and feel confident in assessing exactly where DEN stands from an individual and NFL perspective to the level of play.

Let's start on Offense:

1. DEN can run the ball still, but certainly looks better running zone plays than a lot of the new running scheme McDaniels brought with him. The running backs are all quite capable except Jordan who still misses opportunities.

2. The OL has been brilliant again in protection, despite completely changing most of what they do. Orton has been taking a lot of 5 and 7 step drops and has plenty of time. Orton also has been able to avoid several sacks because the rest of the OL has held when a single defender has gotten through.

3. The passing offense is really off. I mean, no one is making the same reads on coverages and the WR's have not been getting open well enough. Orton will get a lot of the blame, but the WR's need the lions share. ANY WR should get open after 4-5 seconds of protection, but DEN's WR's are really struggling. I seriously think McD needs to simplify the passing packages, especially the hot reads, until this group gets it. It looks ugly because no one is on the same page. (Marshall gets a lot of blame for this being out of camp!).

4. Overall, this is a potent offense despite being off in the passing game to start the year. This is NOT just a DEN problem either. A lot of teams are struggling with their passing game timing, including the PATS without McD. Their offense has looked less than average through 2 contests. It should keep getting better over time, but they need to make it simpler in the short run.

DEFENSE:

1. The front seven has so much more gap discipline this year, it makes it look like they are playing better. It is amazing what a HUGE difference that makes. In fact, they are winning at the POA much more than last year, but still not enough to shut down solid running teams. The run defense is predicated on inside/outside principles and they have effectively closed route 1 up the middle consistently. I would expect teams to start running outside more and trying to loosen that up. Then, we will truly see where the run defense stands.

2. Pass rush is much better, but still dependent on Elvis. CLE did a much better job handling DEN's blitz schemes than CIN did, but Elvis took St. Clair to school. He did not do much versus Joe Thomas though and DEN got little pressure outside that. In fact, Quinn left a lot of yards on the field like Orton did in week one and 2.

3. Secondary is hot and cold still. Several glaring blown coverages versus both Ohio teams, yet they were very stout in the red zone and did not give up a homerun TD. That in and of itself is a HUGE improvement. They are supporting the run and blitzing better than the last 2 years, but they are showing signs of vulnerability when their coverage disguises are not working.

4. Overall, I would say this unit has played better than the sum of its parts to this point. That is the sign of excellent coaching, and even better execution of the scheme by the players. The players on defense have responded MUCH better than the players on offense to the new changes. However, that is par for the course for the whole NFL at this point. The teams who are having huge offensive success are the talented offenses from the past, minus NE. Almost all of the offenses that have changed significantly have been wildly inconsistent.

ST's:

1. Doing MUCH better on coverage units. They kept Joshua Cribbs under wraps and that is saying something.

2. Prater: Did not play the wind well at all yesterday and it cost DEN 6 points. However, it is better to miss those and learn now, than miss and lose later.

3. Punting was pretty good overall and allowed coverage units to get to Cribbs yesterday.

4. Returns still need work and to be much more consistent.


Overall, DEN looks like a middle of the pack team right now. They are behind on offense and ahead on defense. That can carry a team for 3-4 weeks at the beginning of the season. Remember, DEN has had to do that under Shanahan several times until the offense started to click.

That is how I see it to this point. 2 solid games of film to look to evaluate and two weeks worth of every NFL game except tonights game reviewed. DEN has a legit chance to win this division if they can limit the Chargers big plays by their WR's. OAK and KC are better than most thought preseason as well, but their upside is much less than DEN right now.

How naive do you take us for--oh wait--this is the kool-aid swilling MANE we are talking about--most will believe anything--including thinking that Orton is even average--SSSSSSSUUUUUURRRRREEEE you have 2 weeks of 'game tape' on every team in the league--good grief--I have seen some bold claims on message boards beore--but you take yours to an obscenely hilarious level! It's no surprise to see Popps on here cupping your balls.....:rofl:

Inkana7
09-21-2009, 08:48 PM
How naive do you take us for--oh wait--this is the kool-aid swilling MANE we are talking about--most will believe anything--including thinking that Orton is even average--SSSSSSSUUUUUURRRRREEEE you have 2 weeks of 'game tape' on every team in the league--good grief--I have seen some bold claims on message boards beore--but you take yours to an obscenely hilarious level! It's no surprise to see Popps on here cupping your balls.....:rofl:

Haha, wow. You clearly have no idea who Med is.

broncosteven
09-21-2009, 08:49 PM
Haha, wow. You clearly have no idea who Med is.

Maybe he is hopped up on Ambien, happened to me at least once.

Punisher
09-21-2009, 10:01 PM
Nice read, I think McD needs to use Hillis more he's only in a few plays mainly in the red zone. I like the use of the two TE system McD is using with Quinn and DG it works well in the running game.

Punisher
09-21-2009, 10:04 PM
Nice read, I think McD needs to use Hillis more he's only in a few plays mainly in the red zone. I like the use of the two TE system McD is using with Quinn and DG it works well in the running game.

Ive also notice Hochstein as FB in the red zone, on the Hillis TD, that's a pretty smart thing to do :thumbsup:

Cleo McDowell
09-21-2009, 10:34 PM
How naive do you take us for--oh wait--this is the kool-aid swilling MANE we are talking about--most will believe anything--including thinking that Orton is even average--SSSSSSSUUUUUURRRRREEEE you have 2 weeks of 'game tape' on every team in the league--good grief--I have seen some bold claims on message boards beore--but you take yours to an obscenely hilarious level! It's no surprise to see Popps on here cupping your balls.....:rofl:

i think its about time you went to the kitchen and made him one, bee-yatch.
http://www.snoopbloggyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/ham-sandwich.jpg

TheReverend
09-21-2009, 10:39 PM
poacher...........

Vegas_Bronco
09-21-2009, 10:47 PM
I've gotta say it....Cleveland's Defense is horrible. I watched the game again and couldn't believe how bad they looked. I was trying to see how 'well' we played and the first thing that stood out was how bad their defense was...not necessarily the result I was looking for.

Popps
09-21-2009, 11:18 PM
I've gotta say it....Cleveland's Defense is horrible. I watched the game again and couldn't believe how bad they looked. I was trying to see how 'well' we played and the first thing that stood out was how bad their defense was...not necessarily the result I was looking for.

Yea, I wouldn't give their offense much credit, either.

Still, as someone else pointed out... we held a couple of NFL teams to under a TD in each game. That's a stark contrast from the past few years, when even poor offenses got loose against us. (Remember how it always seemed opposing QBs had career days against us?)

I think Cinci is an improved team from last year, but Cleveland might be on the verge of a breakdown. Hard to say at this stage, though. By season's end, things may look very different.

I'm glad we'll get a better test this week. I wish the Raiders offense was a bit better, so we'd really get a test on both sides of the ball.

It'll be interesting to see how our O fares against a better D. Oakland looked stout the past couple... and they'll be pumped.

KevinJames
09-21-2009, 11:24 PM
If I recall, Royal got blasted/fallen on several plays early in the game. I'll bet he was banged up.

If I was Hillis I'd be kinda pissed too. He isn't getting a chance to show what he can do. Even though every time he has been asked to do anything, he's excelled. Sucks for him.

Hillis was given a role as a kick returner and fumbled the opening kick offs hes gotta prove himself before he gets asked to do more.

he still got the goal line carry, but I wonder how much of a role he would have had if he didn't fumble the opening kickoff.

Popps
09-21-2009, 11:34 PM
Hillis was given a role as a kick returner and fumbled the opening kick offs hes gotta prove himself before he gets asked to do more.

he still got the goal line carry, but I wonder how much of a role he would have had if he didn't fumble the opening kickoff.

I still think by the end of the season, Hillis will be seeing more carries. But right now, McDaniels likes Buckhalter and hell... it's tough to argue with his decision to bring him in, at this point. He's really been the more productive of our backs thus far. I was sort of ho-hum about Buckhalter coming in, but the reasoning is now starting to become a bit more clear. He's a bridge to our other backs development. Moreno will eventually be the guy, but Buck is here because he's a vet who can clearly handle some carries and produce some results. Nice to see a little depth back there.

Rock Chalk
09-22-2009, 02:25 AM
How naive do you take us for--oh wait--this is the kool-aid swilling MANE we are talking about--most will believe anything--including thinking that Orton is even average--SSSSSSSUUUUUURRRRREEEE you have 2 weeks of 'game tape' on every team in the league--good grief--I have seen some bold claims on message boards beore--but you take yours to an obscenely hilarious level! It's no surprise to see Popps on here cupping your balls.....:rofl:

Hahaha.

I nominate this for Idiotic Post of the Year award.

Med is the one guy here who, when he says he has game tape of every NFL team, you should believe.

And when he says he looked it over and noticed some things, you should listen. Because more often than not, Mediator is not only right, he is downright prophetic.

But being the douchebag that you are, you probably aren't aware that he is the son of a NFL defensive coordinator or that he has spent more time around game film probably in a single season than you have spent watching football in your entire life.

azbroncfan
09-22-2009, 05:40 AM
How naive do you take us for--oh wait--this is the kool-aid swilling MANE we are talking about--most will believe anything--including thinking that Orton is even average--SSSSSSSUUUUUURRRRREEEE you have 2 weeks of 'game tape' on every team in the league--good grief--I have seen some bold claims on message boards beore--but you take yours to an obscenely hilarious level! It's no surprise to see Popps on here cupping your balls.....:rofl:

Ha Ha you prove to be the complete tool that everyone thinks you are. Move along now jackass and find something more productive to do with your life than waste our time on here.

broncofan7
09-22-2009, 07:11 AM
Alright, I have 2 weeks of film on every team in the league and feel confident in assessing exactly where DEN stands from an individual and NFL perspective to the level of play.

Let's start on Offense:

1. DEN can run the ball still, but certainly looks better running zone plays than a lot of the new running scheme McDaniels brought with him. The running backs are all quite capable except Jordan who still misses opportunities.

The Buckhalter TD Run was NOT on a zone play--that was our most effective run of the year.

2. The OL has been brilliant again in protection, despite completely changing most of what they do. Orton has been taking a lot of 5 and 7 step drops and has plenty of time. Orton also has been able to avoid several sacks because the rest of the OL has held when a single defender has gotten through.

Duh. Our Oline is good.

3. The passing offense is really off. I mean, no one is making the same reads on coverages and the WR's have not been getting open well enough. Orton will get a lot of the blame, but the WR's need the lions share. ANY WR should get open after 4-5 seconds of protection, but DEN's WR's are really struggling. I seriously think McD needs to simplify the passing packages, especially the hot reads, until this group gets it. It looks ugly because no one is on the same page. (Marshall gets a lot of blame for this being out of camp!).

The Wr's have not been getting open--funny--I heard Sharpe say the same thing on a BROADCAST.

4. Overall, this is a potent offense despite being off in the passing game to start the year. This is NOT just a DEN problem either. A lot of teams are struggling with their passing game timing, including the PATS without McD. Their offense has looked less than average through 2 contests. It should keep getting better over time, but they need to make it simpler in the short run.

Wow--The Pats play one of the more interesting games on Sunday--Brady struggles while playing without welker against a blitz heavy defense--and you use that as an example of the passing game being off--how about the Texans--who also struggled against the Jets--they looked damn good against TENN. Or the saints? Or the Cardinals? Or the Chargers? Give me a break---

DEFENSE:

1. The front seven has so much more gap discipline this year, it makes it look like they are playing better. It is amazing what a HUGE difference that makes. In fact, they are winning at the POA much more than last year, but still not enough to shut down solid running teams. The run defense is predicated on inside/outside principles and they have effectively closed route 1 up the middle consistently. I would expect teams to start running outside more and trying to loosen that up. Then, we will truly see where the run defense stands.

Benson looked good against us--and great against GB--our run D is top 15 and much improved--and I got this from watching 'game film' too--sitting in mt media room watching the Red zone Channel and playing fantasy football.

2. Pass rush is much better, but still dependent on Elvis. CLE did a much better job handling DEN's blitz schemes than CIN did, but Elvis took St. Clair to school. He did not do much versus Joe Thomas though and DEN got little pressure outside that. In fact, Quinn left a lot of yards on the field like Orton did in week one and 2.

Last yr when we went to the 3-4 off and on--our pass rush was good too--we had ~ 5 sacks in the 1st half against NE last yr in our blowout loss--the 3-04 allows us to scheme mismatches--LB on RB etc--and it makes the OL guess as to which LB is coming

3. Secondary is hot and cold still. Several glaring blown coverages versus both Ohio teams, yet they were very stout in the red zone and did not give up a homerun TD. That in and of itself is a HUGE improvement. They are supporting the run and blitzing better than the last 2 years, but they are showing signs of vulnerability when their coverage disguises are not working.

Cincy beat themselves with dropped passes (coles) and CLE is dreadful--not moving the ball very well at all until garbage time against us...our red zone d is much improved--if hillis fumbled an opening kickoff last yr--we are down 7-0.

4. Overall, I would say this unit has played better than the sum of its parts to this point. That is the sign of excellent coaching, and even better execution of the scheme by the players. The players on defense have responded MUCH better than the players on offense to the new changes. However, that is par for the course for the whole NFL at this point. The teams who are having huge offensive success are the talented offenses from the past, minus NE. Almost all of the offenses that have changed significantly have been wildly inconsistent.

Our defense is playing better than our offense--color me impressed.


ST's:

1. Doing MUCH better on coverage units. They kept Joshua Cribbs under wraps and that is saying something.

2. Prater: Did not play the wind well at all yesterday and it cost DEN 6 points. However, it is better to miss those and learn now, than miss and lose later.

3. Punting was pretty good overall and allowed coverage units to get to Cribbs yesterday.

4. Returns still need work and to be much more consistent.


Overall, DEN looks like a middle of the pack team right now. They are behind on offense and ahead on defense. That can carry a team for 3-4 weeks at the beginning of the season. Remember, DEN has had to do that under Shanahan several times until the offense started to click.

That is how I see it to this point. 2 solid games of film to look to evaluate and two weeks worth of every NFL game except tonights game reviewed. DEN has a legit chance to win this division if they can limit the Chargers big plays by their WR's. OAK and KC are better than most thought preseason as well, but their upside is much less than DEN right now.

Good grief--there are A LOT of naive sheep on this site--but the extent to which they defend the existence of your 'NFL game tapes' is a pathological condition that really warrants being evaluated by psychiatrist..........

broncofan7
09-22-2009, 07:22 AM
Hahaha.

I nominate this for Idiotic Post of the Year award.

Med is the one guy here who, when he says he has game tape of every NFL team, you should believe.

And when he says he looked it over and noticed some things, you should listen. Because more often than not, Mediator is not only right, he is downright prophetic.

But being the douchebag that you are, you probably aren't aware that he is the son of a NFL defensive coordinator or that he has spent more time around game film probably in a single season than you have spent watching football in your entire life.

Your naivety panties are showing...

Okay--I'll play along--say his father is Joe Collier--you are telling me that he still has access to NFL game tapes--is he a scout for a team? Is he a part of a franchise as an assistant? and if so--how would he have time to post on here--those guys work 60-70 hr weeks--

Now--let's say he is NOT affiliated with any NFL teams/scouting agencies--BUT he somehow has access to NFL game film---when would he have the time to watch ` 32 hours of game film? Doesn't he have a job??


FINALLY:

Alright, I have 2 weeks of film on every team in the league and feel confident in assessing exactly where DEN stands from an individual and NFL perspective to the level of play.



He claims to have watched ALL THE GAME FILM FROM WEEK 2 FROM EVERY NFL GAME EXCEPT FOR THE MONDAY NIGHTER--BY 11AM Monday morning!!!! (per the time stamp on this thread)wake up--HE IS A FRAUD---AND THIS JUST IN--SANTA CLAUS AND THE EASTER BUNNY DO NOT EXIST EITHER! But if it makes you feel better thinking that you have some kind of inside info by reading Med's posts on the mane--go right ahead --it may not be the craziest or most outlandish thing I have read on the here--but your level of gullibility is EPIC no doubt.....

broncofan7
09-22-2009, 07:25 AM
Ha Ha you prove to be the complete tool that everyone thinks you are. Move along now jackass and find something more productive to do with your life than waste our time on here.

Stop embarrassing yourself.............

Broncos_OTM
09-22-2009, 07:50 AM
broncosfan7 lay off the booze.

son of a cordinator or no his post are well thought out.
unlike yours that read like you are green with envy that someone gets respect. you gotta wonder why noone respects you.


dude but seriously you have nothing constructive to say do us all a favour and SHUT THE **** UP,

seriously you need to take a break from this board you little rich twat.

oh and i garuntee you. all that racist ass bull**** rhetoric you spout off about. is only going to eat you up inside. trust me I KNOW. i was a HAMMER SKIN for ten years. its all BULL****. people are people and you prove idiocy comes in all colours.

Rohirrim
09-22-2009, 08:06 AM
This is another thing I feel good about; Orton doesn't panic. How many QBs would be trying to force it in when he starts to get the feeling that his receivers aren't on the same page as him? How many would be yelling and screaming at their teammates and losing their poise? Orton just sticks with the gameplan and keeps plugging away. And he doesn't make stupid mistakes. Remember the tortoise and the hare? ;D

broncofan7
09-22-2009, 08:26 AM
[quote]oh and i garuntee you. all that racist ass bull**** rhetoric you spout off about. is only going to eat you up inside. trust me I KNOW. i was a HAMMER SKIN for ten years. its all BULL****. people are people and you prove idiocy comes in all colours.

Whoa! Who spouts 'racist ass BS'? Not me.

What the heck is a 'hammer skin'? You have some SERIOUS issues there boy......

Broncos_OTM
09-22-2009, 08:30 AM
[QUOTE=Broncos_OTM;2566076]


Whoa! Who spouts 'racist ass BS'? Not me.

What the heck is a 'hammer skin'?

you are a complete and utter tool.

its called google fool. the information you seek is a key stroke away.

Popcorn Sutton
09-22-2009, 08:31 AM
Another actual football analysis thread trashed by broncofan7...

TheReverend
09-22-2009, 08:35 AM
oh and i garuntee you. all that racist ass bull**** rhetoric you spout off about. is only going to eat you up inside. trust me I KNOW. i was a HAMMER SKIN for ten years. its all BULL****. people are people and you prove idiocy comes in all colours.



http://i38.tinypic.com/2r74o3l.gif

TheDave
09-22-2009, 08:36 AM
i was a HAMMER SKIN for ten years. its all BULL****.

I think I would have kept that one to myself... but that's just me.

TheReverend
09-22-2009, 08:37 AM
Oh that's good... they're even looking directly AT the sentence in confusion and disgust...

Popcorn Sutton
09-22-2009, 08:37 AM
I think I would have kept that one to myself... but that's just me.

Something we can agree on.

TheReverend
09-22-2009, 08:38 AM
I think I would have kept that one to myself... but that's just me.

I was thinking the same... personal shame now immortalized on the internet

broncofan7
09-22-2009, 08:42 AM
Another actual football analysis thread trashed by broncofan7...

It's no wonder that SO MANY people are taken advantage of on a daily basis in this country---the older I get the more I realize I am surrounded by mostly idiots........His football 'analysis':

-Our WR's are not getting open--funny, that's exactly what Sharpe said on a Tv telecast

-our OL is good--thanks.

-Our Run D is solid--again thanks



-our defense is playing better/adapted better to our current coaching staff than our offense--again--thanks

Game tape? More like NFL Ticket superfan--but go ahead--

Did I ever tell you that Paul Pasqualoni is my half brother's, wife's 2nd uncle?

Old Dude
09-22-2009, 08:57 AM
Wow. Quite a consensus here:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=7867664

Let's hope they're wrong.

Broncos_OTM
09-22-2009, 09:03 AM
I was thinking the same... personal shame now immortalized on the internet

much like your alcoholic induced threads

Less good than they say for the sons of men is the drinking oft of ale: for the more they drink, the less can they think and keep a watch o'er their wits.

TheReverend
09-22-2009, 09:04 AM
It's no wonder that SO MANY people are taken advantage of on a daily basis in this country---the older I get the more I realize I am surrounded by mostly idiots........His football 'analysis':

-Our WR's are not getting open--funny, that's exactly what Sharpe said on a Tv telecast

-our OL is good--thanks.

-Our Run D is solid--again thanks



-our defense is playing better/adapted better to our current coaching staff than our offense--again--thanks

Game tape? More like NFL Ticket superfan--but go ahead--

Did I ever tell you that Paul Pasqualoni is my half brother's, wife's 2nd uncle?

That's only taking what he said at face value and not the true volume of depth involved in what he actually described.

He's certainly not immune to being wrong, and believe me, when he is I'm right there to make sure he sees it... probably 30 times over (am currently running a Ray Maualuga watch and bumping it weekly for him). Regardless, there's no one I've argued with more on the internet, and also no one who I respect more and now what I'd even call a personal friend. Med's a great guy and the best here at what we do.

Even if he's completely misguided with that soccer bull****.

TheReverend
09-22-2009, 09:05 AM
much like your alcoholic induced threads

Less good than they say for the sons of men is the drinking oft of ale: for the more they drink, the less can they think and keep a watch o'er their wits.

Yes...

Drunk threads posted on a football forum

vs.

10 years in a Skin head hate group

I totally see the parallel. You got me.

broncofan7
09-22-2009, 09:07 AM
Wow. Quite a consensus here:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=7867664

Let's hope they're wrong.

It comes down to our quarterbacking--Orton is HORRID. Amazing to think that last year QB was the LEAST of our concerns..........I agree with the sentiment of some in that link--Nolan is truly a miracle worker and his abilities to turn our defense into the force that it has been in the 1st two games is a testament to his greatness--now about that offensive genius that we hired as HC.......Brian Billick part DEUX--minus a Ray Lewis caliber of player

s0phr0syne
09-22-2009, 09:10 AM
Wow. Quite a consensus here:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=7867664

Let's hope they're wrong.


Man, I visited you link and am reading through some of the posts...kind of downer. But it's a good balance to some of the koolaid that gets passed around here.

We'll see. I think the offense will only get better and better and that as that occurs, if the defense can maintain its current level, our team should be solid, but not spectacular.


Yes...

Drunk threads posted on a football forum

vs.

10 years in a Skin head hate group

I totally see the parallel. You got me.

Rev, why are you laying down the hate so harsh? I mean, it's ridiculous that he was in such a group, but he has himself admitted how stupid that sh*t was and is no longer affiliated with it (it seems). We all make mistakes, and some people make some horrible choices when they're young and haven't had the experiences during their lifetime to know better. Just let it go...

TheReverend
09-22-2009, 09:14 AM
Man, I visited you link and am reading through some of the posts...kind of downer. But it's a good balance to some of the koolaid that gets passed around here.

We'll see. I think the offense will only get better and better and that as that occurs, if the defense can maintain its current level, our team should be solid, but not spectacular.




Rev, why are you laying down the hate so harsh? I mean, it's ridiculous that he was in such a group, but he has himself admitted how stupid that sh*t was and is no longer affiliated with it (it seems). We all make mistakes, and some people make some horrible choices when they're young and haven't had the experiences during their lifetime to know better. Just let it go...

Horrible choices for consecutively for an entire decade isn't a youthful accident, imo... and I did let it go and didn't lay down any "hate so harsh". I posted a .gif and then mentioned that it was now immortalized by posting it.

Popcorn Sutton
09-22-2009, 09:14 AM
It's no wonder that SO MANY people are taken advantage of on a daily basis in this country---the older I get the more I realize I am surrounded by mostly idiots........His football 'analysis':

-Our WR's are not getting open--funny, that's exactly what Sharpe said on a Tv telecast

-our OL is good--thanks.

-Our Run D is solid--again thanks



-our defense is playing better/adapted better to our current coaching staff than our offense--again--thanks

Game tape? More like NFL Ticket superfan--but go ahead--

Did I ever tell you that Paul Pasqualoni is my half brother's, wife's 2nd uncle?

I've learned why there is so much angst in this country. It's people like you who insist with absolutely no room for compromise that people agree with your over the top opinions. There is no middle ground with you.

I don't know Med so I'll reserve judgment. I have enjoyed his takes on this site long before Kyle Orton was our QB. You sir are one of the most crass individuals I've ever come across.

I am still waiting for your magical analysis on why you think Chris Simms who has an IDENTICAL career QB rating is SOOO much better than Kyle Orton. You are insulting Med who has a football pedigree and all we've heard from you is Simms, Simms, Simms, Simms, Noodle Arm, alabatross but no substance. All you spew is hate. You hated Kyle Orton before he landed in Denver.

Kyle Orton and Chris Simms are a mirror image of each other. They have both been average QB's in the NFL throughout their career.

oubronco
09-22-2009, 09:25 AM
It comes down to our quarterbacking--Orton is HORRID. Amazing to think that last year QB was the LEAST of our concerns..........I agree with the sentiment of some in that link--Nolan is truly a miracle worker and his abilities to turn our defense into the force that it has been in the 1st two games is a testament to his greatness--now about that offensive genius that we hired as HC.......Brian Billick part DEUX--minus a Ray Lewis caliber of player

OK we get it "YOU HATE ORTON" but he is our QB so deal with it.......DAMN

Cutler is not coming back!! bitching about it day after day after day is not productive to this site if you don't like it here there are others to go to

outdoor_miner
09-22-2009, 09:26 AM
Man, I visited you link and am reading through some of the posts...kind of downer. But it's a good balance to some of the koolaid that gets passed around here.

Are you really surprised that a general football board with fans from a bunch of other teams would vote for Denver? The media has absolutely destroyed us all offseason... I mean, that thread was probably conceived with an eye toward the Broncos. The team will not get any respect until the Cowboys game. If we win (or play a really good / competitive game), then people may start to notice.

azbroncfan
09-22-2009, 10:08 AM
It's no wonder that SO MANY people are taken advantage of on a daily basis in this country---the older I get the more I realize I am surrounded by mostly idiots........His football 'analysis':

-Our WR's are not getting open--funny, that's exactly what Sharpe said on a Tv telecast

-our OL is good--thanks.

-Our Run D is solid--again thanks



-our defense is playing better/adapted better to our current coaching staff than our offense--again--thanks

Game tape? More like NFL Ticket superfan--but go ahead--

Did I ever tell you that Paul Pasqualoni is my half brother's, wife's 2nd uncle?

The difference is Med doesn't just say the obvious, they aren't getting open but if you actually read his post you would see he explained why they weren't getting open. Med has been spot on with his analysis for years and will school your ass or anyone else's on here on an XX's and OO's conversation. Your an ignorant F^CK that must live a sh$#ty life.

Popps
09-22-2009, 10:12 AM
This is another thing I feel good about; Orton doesn't panic. How many QBs would be trying to force it in when he starts to get the feeling that his receivers aren't on the same page as him? How many would be yelling and screaming at their teammates and losing their poise? Orton just sticks with the gameplan and keeps plugging away. And he doesn't make stupid mistakes. Remember the tortoise and the hare? ;D

Yea, I'll just be curious to see how he does against a more attacking defense. Oakland looked stout against SD, and I think they'll be bringing it... trying to rattle Orton.

To me, if he struggles, he struggles... as long as he takes care of the ball. If it's not there, throw it away, like you said. Clearly, McDaniels has been drilling this into his head, and thus far... it's worked.

This is a pretty important and potentially telling game on Sunday. I hope we bring our best effort to date.

TheReverend
09-23-2009, 01:12 AM
10 years in violent hate group bump, lol

Spider
09-23-2009, 03:53 AM
Alright, I have 2 weeks of film on every team in the league and feel confident in assessing exactly where DEN stands from an individual and NFL perspective to the level of play.

Let's start on Offense:

1. DEN can run the ball still, but certainly looks better running zone plays than a lot of the new running scheme McDaniels brought with him. The running backs are all quite capable except Jordan who still misses opportunities.

2. The OL has been brilliant again in protection, despite completely changing most of what they do. Orton has been taking a lot of 5 and 7 step drops and has plenty of time. Orton also has been able to avoid several sacks because the rest of the OL has held when a single defender has gotten through.

3. The passing offense is really off. I mean, no one is making the same reads on coverages and the WR's have not been getting open well enough. Orton will get a lot of the blame, but the WR's need the lions share. ANY WR should get open after 4-5 seconds of protection, but DEN's WR's are really struggling. I seriously think McD needs to simplify the passing packages, especially the hot reads, until this group gets it. It looks ugly because no one is on the same page. (Marshall gets a lot of blame for this being out of camp!).

4. Overall, this is a potent offense despite being off in the passing game to start the year. This is NOT just a DEN problem either. A lot of teams are struggling with their passing game timing, including the PATS without McD. Their offense has looked less than average through 2 contests. It should keep getting better over time, but they need to make it simpler in the short run.

DEFENSE:

1. The front seven has so much more gap discipline this year, it makes it look like they are playing better. It is amazing what a HUGE difference that makes. In fact, they are winning at the POA much more than last year, but still not enough to shut down solid running teams. The run defense is predicated on inside/outside principles and they have effectively closed route 1 up the middle consistently. I would expect teams to start running outside more and trying to loosen that up. Then, we will truly see where the run defense stands.

2. Pass rush is much better, but still dependent on Elvis. CLE did a much better job handling DEN's blitz schemes than CIN did, but Elvis took St. Clair to school. He did not do much versus Joe Thomas though and DEN got little pressure outside that. In fact, Quinn left a lot of yards on the field like Orton did in week one and 2.

3. Secondary is hot and cold still. Several glaring blown coverages versus both Ohio teams, yet they were very stout in the red zone and did not give up a homerun TD. That in and of itself is a HUGE improvement. They are supporting the run and blitzing better than the last 2 years, but they are showing signs of vulnerability when their coverage disguises are not working.

4. Overall, I would say this unit has played better than the sum of its parts to this point. That is the sign of excellent coaching, and even better execution of the scheme by the players. The players on defense have responded MUCH better than the players on offense to the new changes. However, that is par for the course for the whole NFL at this point. The teams who are having huge offensive success are the talented offenses from the past, minus NE. Almost all of the offenses that have changed significantly have been wildly inconsistent.

ST's:

1. Doing MUCH better on coverage units. They kept Joshua Cribbs under wraps and that is saying something.

2. Prater: Did not play the wind well at all yesterday and it cost DEN 6 points. However, it is better to miss those and learn now, than miss and lose later.

3. Punting was pretty good overall and allowed coverage units to get to Cribbs yesterday.

4. Returns still need work and to be much more consistent.


Overall, DEN looks like a middle of the pack team right now. They are behind on offense and ahead on defense. That can carry a team for 3-4 weeks at the beginning of the season. Remember, DEN has had to do that under Shanahan several times until the offense started to click.

That is how I see it to this point. 2 solid games of film to look to evaluate and two weeks worth of every NFL game except tonights game reviewed. DEN has a legit chance to win this division if they can limit the Chargers big plays by their WR's. OAK and KC are better than most thought preseason as well, but their upside is much less than DEN right now.

;D thanks , Of course we will have meatheads that blame Orton for this .....
as for simplifying the routes , we had to many receivers in the same area vs the browns , Someone isnt running deep enough , or running a route to deep ...Is McD playbook that complicated ?
I noticed a few miss hot reads , but mostly by the receiver or the back .......I know you dont have an inside source anymore , but I wonder why we didnt see Hillis much ? Is he just as lost as the others ?

Denver Bronco56
09-23-2009, 04:38 AM
We all are or at least most of us DIE HARD broncos fan(excluding the other teams fans that contribute on the forum)

Having said that we have to be critical and at the same time be a Broncos fan.

And I think Orton has done exactly what McDaniel's wanted in a QB, did he see something from Orton in Chicago, or how he ran the Spread offense in college? Who Knows, but i think its fair to say he say what he wanted.

I could lie and say i was glad to see how bad Orton was playing in preseason and in the scrimmage. But to tell you the truth i look back and see it might have been him learning the playbook, him knowing it was preseason seeing how the receiver would run the route, exe.


But the play of Orton could have been a lot of things in the Preseason, but i do know now that Orton is playing just how the system needs the QB to play.

I LOVED Cutler's swagger his cannon arm, his mobility...Hell i was looking forward to see another player SIMILAR to Elway (in no means as good or close) but similar player at the QB, position. But cutler is a risk taker and he has the talent/tools to live up to that bill, the confidence and arm to throw a lot of throws most coaches are thinking the time it leaves his hand WTF were you thinking, then it goes for a TD and you love it(that one throw a couple years ago where ANY other qb would have had it picked, it was on the goal line, i believe to Sheffler, and i could have sworn it was picked..and bam TD.

But that attitude isn't going to win you games if you play in an offense set up on short to intermediate route that rely on accuracy and decision making, and i really am glad to have a QB that might have a big game and follow it up with a game managing style game....as long as we dont have to deal with the Cutler-esc type games like we all saw in Chicago week 1.


Maybe i like the running game and a good Defensive game, i mean hell i loved the games i went back and watched of Brady and Cassel in the Offense where they put up 50+ points but in those games they were not "slinging" the ball relying on pure arm strength and a 6'4 receiver out jumping or out positioning the CB(Marshall)...because that kind of playing style leading to fans wanting to grab the pitch forks and torches and run the QB out of town.


Sure it might not be as exciting, but if Orton can even put up Cassel type numbers we are in for a explosive offense

fontaine
09-23-2009, 04:43 AM
In at least 3 situations yesterday when Orton threw the ball away he had a tight end wide open in a check down position. In each situation Orton was locked into a target on one side who never got open and instead of going through his progressions he ended up throwing the ball away.

It is not Ortons fault that people are not getting open on simple routes down field, but he is not very good at scanning the field for another target, he seems to lock on and throw the ball away more than looking for his hot read or check down option.

I think it's far too early to judge how good Orton is in his progressions. A QB has to be comfortable enough with the offense to have an internal clock that can tell him when the 2nd read is expected to break open after a double move, come back etc.

But to point to a specific play: That 49 yard pass play to Gaffney that ended up on the two yard line started with Orton scanning the right side of the field and quickly looking to the far left sidelines where Gaffney had just excecuted a great stop and comeback move and the ball was thrown to the far left sidelines. That's one of the toughest throws in the game.

Orton is getting there. My biggest complaint in week 1 was his awful, awful velocity in his passes. That's improved a lot so it can be safely said it was due to injury so I take back that criticism to reserve my judgement until he's had time to settle into the offense.

Bronco Rob
09-23-2009, 05:26 AM
Litsen I have watched the Broncos for the better part of 30 years and this team is the real deal.....

ACCEPTANCE : is the word of the day...

Be greatful, be joyful..

Be glad you are not a cheefs fan....



:thumbsup:

oubronco
09-23-2009, 12:13 PM
ACCEPTANCE : is the word of the day...

Be greatful, be joyful..

Be glad you are not a cheefs fan....



:thumbsup:

Amen Brotha

Old Dude
09-23-2009, 12:34 PM
I was a little alarmed when Orton was sacked three times in the opener against the Bengals, because if that trend continued, it would be far worse than last year.

Maybe this is a case where we actually underestimated the Bengals. 2 of those sacks were credited to Antwan Odom.

The same dude sacked Green Bay's QB FIVE times last week. Seven on the season for him now, and he leads the NFL.

He was hurt for a lot of last season after Cincy signed him as a free agent from the Titans. Never had this kind of impact before, so we'll see if it was a fluke or if he actually made a deal with the devil.

listopencil
09-23-2009, 06:22 PM
Wow. Med's the son of a DC, huh? Cool.






Hammerskins? WTF?


Upon edit, now that I have looked up what a "Hammerskin" is-you suck.