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tsiguy96
09-21-2009, 07:11 AM
he STILL is unable to convert under short conditions, it definitely is time to pull the plug on this one.

SoDak Bronco
09-21-2009, 07:19 AM
he'll bounce back...

SoDak Bronco
09-21-2009, 07:20 AM
just like he did when he missed a few in that practice at mile-high..he is a good kicker, just needs to stay focused. that wind looked pretty bad on tv too.

WolfpackGuy
09-21-2009, 07:24 AM
I couldn't watch the game, but I remember checking my phone, and saying, "WTF is he doing?"
It looked windy as hell on the highlights.

dbfan21
09-21-2009, 07:25 AM
I'm with SoDak. We don't need to make any rash decisions on Prater. It was pretty windy...I mean, the goal posts were swaying back and forth. If this guy is missing 39 yarders in a dome time after time, then the topic needs to be addressed. Until then, let's see how things play out.

Archer81
09-21-2009, 07:32 AM
On both missed kicks, ball went straight between the uprights until the last second, and peeled off because of wind.

:Broncos:

Hercules Rockefeller
09-21-2009, 07:33 AM
I couldn't watch the game, but I remember checking my phone, and saying, "WTF is he doing?"
It looked windy as hell on the highlights.

It was and the wind was swirling which made it even worse. The wind pushed both kicks wide.

barryr
09-21-2009, 07:40 AM
Prater just didn't compensate enough for the wind. That side of the field was pushing kicks to the left and doing so a lot.

Smiling Assassin27
09-21-2009, 07:44 AM
More of the same. We saw this last year, and I'm concerned....like last year.

TailgateNut
09-21-2009, 07:47 AM
All this talk about it being WINDY AS HALL? WTF? It wasn't WINDY AS HELL 20 rows from the field.

MVP-06
09-21-2009, 07:48 AM
nasty crosswind. has to be tough to judge how far to play it. he will win a game with a 50 + yarder this year

CEH
09-21-2009, 07:57 AM
His first miss was from the near hash and his hook sailed wide left. The next miss he moved to the far hash and still pulled it wide left.

He's very inconsitent from 40-49 where an NFL kicker needs to make his living

What is Matt Stover up to these days?

TailgateNut
09-21-2009, 08:03 AM
nasty crosswind. has to be tough to judge how far to play it. he will win a game with a 50 + yarder this year

If there was a nasty cross wind, it must have been out of the east and I didn't feel it due to the wall behind me. It didn't seem bad from where I sat, but then it IS Mile High.

Beantown Bronco
09-21-2009, 08:26 AM
The wind was obvious on tv. Effected the kickoffs and punts quite a bit too (it was easier to see on tv). The returners were sprinting a few times for the sidelines at the last minute on a few of the kicks that got "pushed".

SonOfLe-loLang
09-21-2009, 08:34 AM
It was and the wind was swirling which made it even worse. The wind pushed both kicks wide.

Wind didnt look that swirling to me, he just didnt compensate enough for it....twice. I get why kickers are nervous to aim for a miss and let the wind take the ball back in, but you have to trust it. I remember Elam talking about the 98 AFC championship game against the jets and aiming the ball into the corner of the endzone so the wind would bring it back towards the center.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-21-2009, 08:36 AM
All this talk about it being WINDY AS HALL? WTF? It wasn't WINDY AS HELL 20 rows from the field.

did you see the flags on the goal post?

Natedog24
09-21-2009, 08:46 AM
Way too early to pull the plug, just evaluate and maybe if he has a few more games like this you think about bringing in someone else. Honestly Denver could do a lot worse at kicker then Prater.

Broncoman13
09-21-2009, 08:47 AM
he STILL is unable to convert under short conditions, it definitely is time to pull the plug on this one.

a knee jerk reaction. Last week you weren't complaining. Don't remember you complaining during the preseason when he was 7 for 7 either???

Check your rep, have something you should know... SERIOUSLY

WolfpackGuy
09-21-2009, 08:49 AM
Hopefully, his kickoff distances don't drop off like last year.
I can take a few difficult misses if the kickoffs are still strong.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
09-21-2009, 08:54 AM
It was obvious on TV that the wind pushed it off course by atleast 10 feet.

On another note did anyone see that kickoff in the first half that he put through the uprights? I don't think I've ever seen that before.

jhns
09-21-2009, 08:58 AM
I love his leg, and don't know that he needs to go yet, but I was very suprised that he didn't even have competition this offseason. He has not been real consistent but he does have a great leg.

Mediator12
09-21-2009, 09:15 AM
That wind was a real problem. If you have never kicked before, you have no idea how much GUSTing winds are a problem. One second you need a five foot correction, then the next you need a 5 yard. And that assumes the snap, hold, and contact are all perfect.

If you play golf you should understand. Somtimes you have to aim completely off the green or fairway and have the wind bring it back. It was clear on TV the ball took an extra 5 yards from the initial target too....

~Crash~
09-21-2009, 09:18 AM
I couldn't watch the game, but I remember checking my phone, and saying, "WTF is he doing?"
It looked windy as hell on the highlights.

it was gusting winds and the first kick was not his fault second might have been seemed to steady wind there ... who know on the second one .

~Crash~
09-21-2009, 09:20 AM
oh and to el nut job that started this thread fail .

tsiguy96
09-21-2009, 09:20 AM
a knee jerk reaction. Last week you weren't complaining. Don't remember you complaining during the preseason when he was 7 for 7 either???

Check your rep, have something you should know... SERIOUSLY

Do you not understand? You criticize based on what's actually happening on the field idiot and prater misses these ffgs when they count far too often. Good try though. I already said I love that he'll hot a 55 harder but it's just as important to make the short ones and history shows he struggles there

broncosteven
09-21-2009, 09:21 AM
That wind was a real problem. If you have never kicked before, you have no idea how much GUSTing winds are a problem. One second you need a five foot correction, then the next you need a 5 yard. And that assumes the snap, hold, and contact are all perfect.

If you play golf you should understand. Somtimes you have to aim completely off the green or fairway and have the wind bring it back. It was clear on TV the ball took an extra 5 yards from the initial target too....

I am guessing TSIGuy got another bad table at Buffalo Wild wings, The wind was a factor.

Right before the 2nd miss the flags at the top of the FG posts were blowing to Praters Left hard, then the Posts shook and the the wind stopped dropping the flags only to have the wind pickup back to the left after he kicked the ball.

The only thing I would say about yesterday is that Prater could have tryed to play the wind a little more but he is young and can learn.

Cutting a kicker because he missed 2 meaningless FG's is plain stupid. He made up for it on kick offs knocking it through the endzone. We haven't had that in a decade.

~Crash~
09-21-2009, 09:23 AM
It was and the wind was swirling which made it even worse. The wind pushed both kicks wide.

it was also gusting on that first kick you have no way to adjust to that .

tsiguy96
09-21-2009, 09:27 AM
Mcoskie you're a ****ing retArd plAin and simple. If you think people like me who don't cry and whine and all summer told ****tards like you to watch the team before crying are ruining the mane and driving posters away, what are the cutler dick suckers and whiners who cannot accept that this team isn't headed for failure doing to it? Gving it respectability? I'll never understand why some of you idiots think optimism and real criticism(ie commenting actual play on the field and not just baseless whining) is a bad thing

~Crash~
09-21-2009, 09:27 AM
I am guessing TSIGuy got another bad table at Buffalo Wild wings, The wind was a factor.

Right before the 2nd miss the flags at the top of the FG posts were blowing to Praters Left hard, then the Posts shook and the the wind stopped dropping the flags only to have the wind pickup back to the left after he kicked the ball.

The only thing I would say about yesterday is that Prater could have tryed to play the wind a little more but he is young and can learn.

Cutting a kicker because he missed 2 meaningless FG's is plain stupid. He made up for it on kick offs knocking it through the endzone. We haven't had that in a decade.

there is no way in hell you can adjust to gusting wind it is called luck and powering it thew and hoping for the best .

~Crash~
09-21-2009, 09:28 AM
Mcoskie you're a ****ing retArd plAin and simple. If you think people like me who don't cry and whine and all summer told ****tards like you to watch the team before crying are ruining the mane and driving posters away, what are the cutler daisy pickers and whiners who cannot accept that this team isn't headed for failure doing to it? Gving it respectability? I'll never understand why some of you idiots think optimism and real criticism(ie commenting actual play on the field and not just baseless whining) is a bad thing

stop drinking now .:clown:

~Crash~
09-21-2009, 09:31 AM
tsiguy96 who is bringing up the past. kettle black

tsiguy96
09-21-2009, 09:33 AM
tsiguy96 who is bringing up the past. kettle black

I'm talking about our kicker having the same problems througout his career here what are you talking about?

broncosteven
09-21-2009, 09:51 AM
Mcoskie you're a ****ing retArd plAin and simple. If you think people like me who don't cry and whine and all summer told ****tards like you to watch the team before crying are ruining the mane and driving posters away, what are the cutler daisy pickers and whiners who cannot accept that this team isn't headed for failure doing to it? Gving it respectability? I'll never understand why some of you idiots think optimism and real criticism(ie commenting actual play on the field and not just baseless whining) is a bad thing

Oskie was at Camp and reported.

He did great things for the Mane this year.

All you have done is cripple this site with hate and have not added any football value at all.

It is posters like you, TonyR, Broncorob, who are driving the great posters away.

Used to be that Kahn might start a thread of some great insight on something I may have missed during the game, much like Med's thread today.

It isn't anyfun to be here after a win anymore because of all the posters who think they are right are starting "I want to pick a fight with other Bronco fans" threads with the other posters that hurt their feelings at somepoint in the offseason.

You should stop creating threads until you actually watch a Bronco football game for the full 60 minutes and have something constructive to offer. Watching the game out of your peripheral vision while you are at a sports bar with your bear friends berating (or who knows maybe cheering) Cutler doesn't count.

SouthStndJunkie
09-21-2009, 09:54 AM
Prater is a 68.2% career kicker in the pros....that usually puts you out of work in the NFL.

He kicked at a 67.6% clip in college.

It's pretty obvious that he has a monster leg, but will probably make less than 70% of his kicks as time goes on.

Just to put that into perspective....25 kickers made at least 80% of their FGs last year.....17 of those were over 85%.

Beantown Bronco
09-21-2009, 10:00 AM
I'm talking about our kicker having the same problems througout his career here what are you talking about?

What?!?

The guy has only been a full time field goal kicker for ONE SEASON. He was around 10-10 to start this season if you count pre-season. And, at the midpoint last season was a front runner for a probowl nod. How soon we forget.

Beantown Bronco
09-21-2009, 10:08 AM
Prater is a 68.2% career kicker in the pros....that usually puts you out of work in the NFL.

He kicked at a 67.6% clip in college.

It's pretty obvious that he has a monster leg, but will probably make less than 70% of his kicks as time goes on.

Just to put that into perspective....25 kickers made at least 80% of their FGs last year.....17 of those were over 85%.

A few points about this:

1. Last year was literally the first year he was a full time field goal kicker. Before that, he was just a kickoff specialist who kicked field goals in two games due to an injury to the regular kicker. Before last year, he received ZERO coaching and ZERO attention from anyone about field goal kicking technique, and this includes in college.

2. His career percentage is skewed by his 1 for 4 performance in 2007, when he was just a kickoff guy winging it at the last minute.

3. He is performing on par with what Elam did his first few years in the league. Percentages are almost identical. And I think Prater already has more touchbacks than Elam will have all season long.

SoDak Bronco
09-21-2009, 10:13 AM
Jeff Reed thinks he should be given another week...

SouthStndJunkie
09-21-2009, 10:29 AM
A few points about this:

1. Last year was literally the first year he was a full time field goal kicker. Before that, he was just a kickoff specialist who kicked field goals in two games due to an injury to the regular kicker. Before last year, he received ZERO coaching and ZERO attention from anyone about field goal kicking technique, and this includes in college.

2. His career percentage is skewed by his 1 for 4 performance in 2007, when he was just a kickoff guy winging it at the last minute.

3. He is performing on par with what Elam did his first few years in the league. Percentages are almost identical. And I think Prater already has more touchbacks than Elam will have all season long.

He was 50/74 in college....he has had plenty of attempts in college and the pros to show he is a sub .700 kicker.

I hope I am wrong....I just see a guy with a cannon for a leg that misses an awful lot of FGs in the 30-49 range: 16/27 (59.2% success rate).

Hercules Rockefeller
09-21-2009, 10:49 AM
All this talk about it being WINDY AS HALL? WTF? It wasn't WINDY AS HELL 20 rows from the field.

It was in the upper deck and those goalposts were definitely swaying back and forth.

tsiguy96
09-21-2009, 10:49 AM
Oskie was at Camp and reported.

He did great things for the Mane this year.

All you have done is cripple this site with hate and have not added any football value at all.

It is posters like you, TonyR, Broncorob, who are driving the great posters away.

Used to be that Kahn might start a thread of some great insight on something I may have missed during the game, much like Med's thread today.

It isn't anyfun to be here after a win anymore because of all the posters who think they are right are starting "I want to pick a fight with other Bronco fans" threads with the other posters that hurt their feelings at somepoint in the offseason.

You should stop creating threads until you actually watch a Bronco football game for the full 60 minutes and have something constructive to offer. Watching the game out of your peripheral vision while you are at a sports bar with your bear friends berating (or who knows maybe cheering) Cutler doesn't count.

hahahaha, funny how you name all the optimistic people as scaring people away from this site, yet morons like jhns and broncofan7 are perfectly capable posters because they call out every person on the coaching staff and FO all the time, even when they are completely wrong. good call.

i guess the haters really do stick together through thick and thin.

Rigs11
09-21-2009, 11:01 AM
I am guessing TSIGuy got another bad table at Buffalo Wild wings, The wind was a factor.

Right before the 2nd miss the flags at the top of the FG posts were blowing to Praters Left hard, then the Posts shook and the the wind stopped dropping the flags only to have the wind pickup back to the left after he kicked the ball.

The only thing I would say about yesterday is that Prater could have tryed to play the wind a little more but he is young and can learn.

Cutting a kicker because he missed 2 meaningless FG's is plain stupid. He made up for it on kick offs knocking it through the endzone. We haven't had that in a decade. I was at the game, the wind was doing weird stuff in that stadium.thats why there were so many punts out of bounds.

s0phr0syne
09-21-2009, 11:11 AM
Prater is a 68.2% career kicker in the pros....that usually puts you out of work in the NFL.

He kicked at a 67.6% clip in college.

It's pretty obvious that he has a monster leg, but will probably make less than 70% of his kicks as time goes on.

Just to put that into perspective....25 kickers made at least 80% of their FGs last year.....17 of those were over 85%.


Good post, thanks for bringing actual stats into this.

I agree with you that his college stats indicate a lack of consistency that is not a good sign. I thought last year's mid-season rut was unique, but in actuality it looks like what might be the norm for Prater.

I love his Kickoffs and monster leg, but at the end of the day consistency is definitely paramount. He's on the watch list for sure, but don't think he deserves to be cut yet. Just gonna have to weather the scrutiny and prove he can be consistent (if he can).

SouthStndJunkie
09-21-2009, 11:22 AM
Good post, thanks for bringing actual stats into this.

I agree with you that his college stats indicate a lack of consistency that is not a good sign. I thought last year's mid-season rut was unique, but in actuality it looks like what might be the norm for Prater.

I love his Kickoffs and monster leg, but at the end of the day consistency is definitely paramount. He's on the watch list for sure, but don't think he deserves to be cut yet. Just gonna have to weather the scrutiny and prove he can be consistent (if he can).

I agree...he does not deserve to be cut yet....but he needs to start becoming more consistent, or I guarantee that McDaniels will start working out other kickers.

Beantown Bronco
09-21-2009, 11:45 AM
I'm not worried about him. This is a guy who, including preseason, was 10-10 to start the season with 2 fgs of over 50 yards. Add to that the touchbacks, which people really seem to be taking for granted now, and that's a pretty good recipe for success.

Does anyone really think he misses those two yesterday if the wind doesn't take them? This is a guy who, unlike most kickers, never puts draw on his kicks. In other words, if he misses, it's almost always to his right. They don't hook to the left like they were yesterday.

orange 4 life
09-21-2009, 11:50 AM
he STILL is unable to convert under short conditions, it definitely is time to pull the plug on this one.

I don't think it was "short" conditions as much as windy conditions, but either way the result is the same, and the result was two missed fg's that COULD'VE cost us the game.

Be honest. After he missed the second, did you all REALLY think the defense would stonewall them AGAIN?
I thought we'd have a repeat of the week before, and I just hoped we'd have time left.

It's probably too late for this season, but yes, we absolutely need to address it in the offseason if he doesn't have a big turnaround.

THREE kicks from the SAME spot, and he REALLY couldn't adjust for the wind?
The only reason he MADE the one was because the wind died down for a minute. Pathetic.

Beantown Bronco
09-21-2009, 12:13 PM
THREE kicks from the SAME spot, and he REALLY couldn't adjust for the wind?
The only reason he MADE the one was because the wind died down for a minute. Pathetic.

He was two for four: made, missed, made, missed. By making the 3rd one, he obviously showed that he made an adjustment. The thing is, gusts are not consistent. They come and go. So if you over-compensate and you kick at the moment there is a lull, you are going to look pretty stupid. If you under-compensate and there is a gust, same thing.

There is a reason why Pittsburgh is the toughest place in the league to kick. The wind is insane and the design of their stadium makes it even worse. Ask any kicker. They'd rather kick in rain and snow than high winds.

SouthStndJunkie
09-21-2009, 12:15 PM
Too much masterprating can make you go blind.

Beantown Bronco
09-21-2009, 12:18 PM
Too much masterprating can make you go blind.

I wish I could read what you wrote. People need to start using bigger font.

SouthStndJunkie
09-21-2009, 12:30 PM
I wish I could read what you wrote. People need to start using bigger font.

Rep for having a good sense of humor.

misturanderson
09-21-2009, 12:33 PM
Considering that, even with the wind, he was off by maybe 5-10 feet on both of those kicks from over 35 yards away, he shouldn't be cut for that performance. He wasn't shanking them 20 yards wide or missing 20 yarders out there. If that happens in more ideal conditions, there might be a good reason to look into replacing him.

Dedhed
09-21-2009, 12:56 PM
We should immediately cut anyone who missed a play on Sunday.

outdoor_miner
09-21-2009, 03:50 PM
Right before the 2nd miss the flags at the top of the FG posts were blowing to Praters Left hard, then the Posts shook and the the wind stopped dropping the flags only to have the wind pickup back to the left after he kicked the ball.

I saw this, too. After he missed the first one (which was clearly affected by the wind), I was specifically watching the flags on his second miss. You are absolutely right that the wind was erratic. I thought to myself, "How do kickers deal with wildly changing winds? Seems impossible." Sure enough, he missed it.

He gets a pass in my mind for yesterday. We won, his kickoffs have been awesome, the wind was clearly crazy, and (people aren't mentioning this) he had a huge huge hand in the Cinci win. Two big 50+ yard kicks when we absolutely needed them.

My biggest concern is that so much of kicking is confidence. I hope this doesn't affect him.

broncosteven
09-21-2009, 06:26 PM
I saw this, too. After he missed the first one (which was clearly affected by the wind), I was specifically watching the flags on his second miss. You are absolutely right that the wind was erratic. I thought to myself, "How do kickers deal with wildly changing winds? Seems impossible." Sure enough, he missed it.

He gets a pass in my mind for yesterday. We won, his kickoffs have been awesome, the wind was clearly crazy, and (people aren't mentioning this) he had a huge huge hand in the Cinci win. Two big 50+ yard kicks when we absolutely needed them.

My biggest concern is that so much of kicking is confidence. I hope this doesn't affect him.

I don't think this will shake him, he was hitting the extra points down the middle.

After all the **** talk around this place I am glad that someone saw the same thing as I did for once!

LOL

Beantown Bronco
09-27-2009, 07:46 PM
he STILL is unable to convert under short conditions, it definitely is time to pull the plug on this one.

Yup. Definitely time to pull the plug on this guy. I'm sick of the touchbacks and clutch field goals off of the miserable dirt infield. If only he was having a better season than the following:

Crosby
Elam
Reed
Mare

Oops. You mean he is?

The critics should be silent for a little while after this one. OUTSTANDING game by my adopt a bronco.

Kid A
09-27-2009, 07:48 PM
Yup. Definitely time to pull the plug on this guy. I'm sick of the touchbacks and clutch field goals off of the miserable dirt infield. If only he was having a better season than the following:

Crosby
Elam
Reed
Mare

Oops. You mean he is?

The critics should be silent for a little while after this one. OUTSTANDING game by my adopt a bronco.

You see the Mora post game ripping of Mare? Brutal. Almost guarantee they have a new kicker next week.

Popcorn Sutton
09-27-2009, 07:49 PM
I've watched him closely this year. He is kicking with much more confidence. Even the kicks he missed in the wind. He hit a nice shot but forgot to compensate for the wind. Doh! He'll get there.

It seems like the coaches believe in him and they are coaching him up. From what I've seen he's doing a great job kicking off and is much more confident in general.

Broncobiv
09-27-2009, 07:51 PM
Touchbacks are FAN-F'ING-TASTIC!

tsiguy96
09-27-2009, 07:52 PM
his touchbacks are awesome, and he started off great last year. i hope he doesnt miss another, but his history shows hes not accurate for long periods of time. hope that changes!

ward63
09-27-2009, 07:57 PM
You see the Mora post game ripping of Mare? Brutal. Almost guarantee they have a new kicker next week.

That'd be kind of nuts. Cutting a captain...