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View Full Version : Running game: Buckhalter + Knowshon = who cares who the QB is?


BroncoBuff
09-20-2009, 06:12 PM
The O-line and Graham (and Quinn) blew open some big holes today ...

Buckhalter = 76 yards
Moreno = 75 yards

If Orton keeps up this zero-interception run, we'll be a running offense, I love it.

lex
09-20-2009, 06:14 PM
The O-line and Graham (and Quinn) blew open some big holes today ...

Buckhalter = 76 yards
Moreno = 75 yards

If Orton keeps up this zero-interception run, we'll be a running offense, I love it.


Orton had 27 pass attempts by half time.

McDman
09-20-2009, 06:14 PM
I really wish we'd do more than just a singleback set. I think we'd be a lot better with a fullback in and it'd give Hillis an opportunity to make plays.

Baba Booey
09-20-2009, 06:15 PM
Orton just gets rid of it where Jay would try to fit it into a window 30 yards downfield. A couple throws (the one in the flats to Jordan and the one near the endzone to Eddie) were just getting keeping the drive breathing.

I hope the D keeps this up. They should have a good game against the Faiders.

Popcorn Sutton
09-20-2009, 06:16 PM
Orton had 27 pass attempts by half time.

I was under impressed with the first half game plan. It was nice to see some adjustments at half time. Let's hope it carries forward.

NYBronco
09-20-2009, 06:16 PM
Yeah baby, the running game is looking better. It was after all Cleveland but it was good seeing our RB's hit the openings.

vanbrugh
09-20-2009, 06:18 PM
The playbook is still very vanilla - josh aint showing what we have until we have to. Winning without getting out of first gear and watching a defence in sync with what the offense is showing. How could you not be impressed?

oubronco
09-20-2009, 06:18 PM
God I hope they keep running the ball

snowspot66
09-20-2009, 06:19 PM
It will be interesting to see our future game plans. It kind of has a feeling that McDaniels still isn't sure what he wants to call because honestly we haven't seen what a lot of these guys can do. I do expect a lot more runs in the first half next week and nowhere near 27 pass attempts.

BroncoBuff
09-20-2009, 06:19 PM
Orton had 27 pass attempts by half time.

True, but we ran in the second half. Hillis and that AWESOME Buckhalter TD, I'm starting to love that guy.

Knowshon + Hillis + Buckhalter ... why not just run the ball behind that line?

rastaman
09-20-2009, 06:19 PM
The O-line and Graham (and Quinn) blew open some big holes today ...

Buckhalter = 76 yards
Moreno = 75 yards

If Orton keeps up this zero-interception run, we'll be a running offense, I love it.

Teams will stack 8 in the box eventually to stop the run and force Orton to beat them with the pass as the season wears on. Hopefully the passing came becomes more consistent.

Garcia Bronco
09-20-2009, 06:21 PM
Teams will stack 8 in the box eventually to stop the run and force Orton to beat them with the pass as the season wears on. Hopefully the passing came becomes more consistent.

Damn...you can say something smart.

lex
09-20-2009, 06:23 PM
True, but we ran in the second half. Hillis and that AWESOME Buckhalter TD, I'm starting to love that guy.

Knowshon + Hillis + Buckhalter ... why not just run the ball behind that line?


Ive been clamoring for a renewed dedication to the running game as well. And that was one of my biggest gripes with Shanahan. But McDaniels lost a super bowl because of ignoring the running game and today they didnt really run until they had amassed the lead. When the game was close, they were throwing.

BroncoSojia
09-20-2009, 06:24 PM
The O-line and Graham (and Quinn) blew open some big holes today ...

Buckhalter = 76 yards
Moreno = 75 yards

If Orton keeps up this zero-interception run, we'll be a running offense, I love it.

Good defense, 2 good RB to give the ball to, sounds a lot like the 2005 season.

Drek
09-20-2009, 06:24 PM
Orton had 27 pass attempts by half time.

Over a 3rd of them came in a two minute drive where he got the team within FG range.

I wasn't real pleased with his first half passing either, he should have put a touchdown in that last drive, but you can't cite the number of pass attempts as being a huge problem when so many came in a two minute drill to end the half.

He has a lot of improving to do still. So did Matt Cassel at this time last year and by the end of the season he was killing teams. Orton deserves a good bit more time, especially with the improvement he showed coming into the second half.

Archer81
09-20-2009, 06:25 PM
Trying to remember the last time I saw the Broncos pulling the LG and LT with Sheffler motioned to that side running the football.


:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
09-20-2009, 06:27 PM
Drek, the halftime adjustments you talked about seem to me to have been: Relax, be patient, let the running game happen.

I don't mind being a running offense + pressure defense team. Refreshing. And if they satck 8 in the box, Orton is more than capable of making them pay. He won't win games by himself, but we don't need that.

BroncoBuff
09-20-2009, 06:29 PM
Trying to remember the last time I saw the Broncos pulling the LG and LT with Sheffler motioned to that side running the football.


:Broncos:

LOL NO KIDDING! .... a pulling guard ... what a concept! Haven't seen that here since what, Paul Howard? Keith Bishop? Mike Schnitker?!

I still hope they use ZBS some, though .... any and all change of paces work for me.

Punisher
09-20-2009, 06:30 PM
I love Hochstein as FB :) gave Hillis a nice wall to run behind for that TD

Drek
09-20-2009, 06:31 PM
Drek, the halftime adjustments you talked about seem to me to have been: Relax, be patient, let the running game happen.

I don't mind being a running offense + pressure defense team. Refreshing. And if they satck 8 in the box, Orton is more than capable of making them pay. He won't win games by himself, but we don't need that.

He started hitting his backs for short yardage too. I mentioned the need for it in the game thread. A lot of people have said on this board that Orton's inability to go deep will result in him seeing a ton of blitzes all season long. In fact, some teams (like the Steelers) often gameplan a lot of blitzes to take away the long bombs (get to the QB before his guy can get deep). It isn't a definite way to solve the problem.

Hitting a back on a curl behind the blitzers though? Or out on the flat with a screen? That makes defensive coordinators start dropping LBs real damn fast.

The two passes to Moreno and the screen to Buckhalter (despite Marshall's hold) where a big part of Orton getting more comfortable in the second half.

rastaman
09-20-2009, 06:31 PM
Damn...you can say something smart.

Screw Garcia.....you IDIOT!:wiggle:

Popcorn Sutton
09-20-2009, 06:31 PM
Over a 3rd of them came in a two minute drive where he got the team within FG range.

I wasn't real pleased with his first half passing either, he should have put a touchdown in that last drive, but you can't cite the number of pass attempts as being a huge problem when so many came in a two minute drill to end the half.

He has a lot of improving to do still. So did Matt Cassel at this time last year and by the end of the season he was killing teams. Orton deserves a good bit more time, especially with the improvement he showed coming into the second half.

Man, I am glad you are a poster here. It's refreshing to see such level headedness. Rep.

DenverBrit
09-20-2009, 06:31 PM
Over a 3rd of them came in a two minute drive where he got the team within FG range.

I wasn't real pleased with his first half passing either, he should have put a touchdown in that last drive, but you can't cite the number of pass attempts as being a huge problem when so many came in a two minute drill to end the half.

He has a lot of improving to do still. So did Matt Cassel at this time last year and by the end of the season he was killing teams. Orton deserves a good bit more time, especially with the improvement he showed coming into the second half.

Agreed. The offense will only get better as they all gell in a new system.

It's easy to look at the offensive personnel and think it's basically the same as last year, but the new QB and offensive scheme means everyone has a learning curve.

Much better this week, but as you say, a long way to go.

Dagmar
09-20-2009, 06:33 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=84029

You Buff, you care.

mizzoutigers
09-20-2009, 06:46 PM
I don't want any of these moreno bashers from last week saying a thing, happy with the win and much better performance this week; granted we did play a crappy team

snowspot66
09-20-2009, 06:51 PM
Yeah they suck but we did hold them to 6 (only 3 belong to the defense). They put up 20 against the Vikings and the Bengals put up a nice 31 against the Packers. Any time you hold a team to single digits you're doing something right and credit must be given. This is the NFL. Even the ****tiest teams usually manage to put up 10 to 14.

lex
09-20-2009, 06:52 PM
Over a 3rd of them came in a two minute drive where he got the team within FG range.

I wasn't real pleased with his first half passing either, he should have put a touchdown in that last drive, but you can't cite the number of pass attempts as being a huge problem when so many came in a two minute drill to end the half.

He has a lot of improving to do still. So did Matt Cassel at this time last year and by the end of the season he was killing teams. Orton deserves a good bit more time, especially with the improvement he showed coming into the second half.

27 pass attempts in a half is a lot regardless of how or when they happened. They still count and relative to what one would call normal in by NFL standards, 27 is a lot and running a 2 minute drive isnt unique to this game.

BroncoBuff
09-20-2009, 06:54 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=84029

You Buff, you care.
Well, that was before the season even started, R-Shack, no fair, Kyle was hurt, too then.

Plus I made about a dozen posts this week that we should keep Kyle in there, no changes with the Big Mo on our side. Try out your search function with that!


The right kind of running game and defense, and YOU could quarterback us to an 8-8 season, Shack ;D

mhgaffney
09-20-2009, 06:58 PM
You get the sense we could field a dominant offense -- if Orton can just get it together.

Moreno is going to bust a big one -- soon -- and silence the bashers. (STFU!)

BroncoBuff
09-20-2009, 06:59 PM
27 pass attempts in a half is a lot regardless of how or when they happened. They still count and relative to what one would call normal in by NFL standards, 27 is a lot and running a 2 minute drive isnt unique to this game.

Drek is kinda right ... 11 passes that drive:

SECOND QUARTER

Denver - 4:00
1st-10, DEN5 4:00 K. Moreno rushed to the right for 4 yard gain
2nd-6, DEN10 3:23 K. Moreno rushed to the left for 5 yard gain
3rd-1, DEN15 2:42 K. Moreno rushed to the right for 1 yard gain
1st-10, DEN16 2:05 C. Buckhalter rushed to the right for 4 yard gain
2nd-6, DEN20 1:59 K. Orton incomplete pass to the right
3rd-6, DEN20 1:56 K. Orton passed to E. Royal to the right for 11 yard gain
1st-10, DEN31 1:50 K. Orton incomplete pass to the left
2nd-10, DEN31 1:42 K. Orton incomplete pass to the right
3rd-10, DEN31 1:37 K. Orton passed to B. Stokley to the left for 18 yard gain
1st-10, DEN49 1:32 K. Orton passed to E. Royal to the left for 2 yard gain
2nd-8, CLE49 0:59 CLE committed 18 yard penalty
1st-10, CLE31 0:53 K. Orton incomplete pass down the middle
2nd-10, CLE31 0:47 K. Orton passed to B. Stokley down the middle for 10 yard gain
1st-10, CLE21 0:41 K. Orton incomplete pass to the left
2nd-10, CLE21 0:36 K. Orton incomplete pass to the left
3rd-10, CLE21 0:32 K. Orton incomplete pass to the left
4th-10, CLE21 0:23 M. Prater missed a 39-yard field goal

Cleveland - 0:23
1st-10, CLE29 0:23 B. Quinn rushed up the middle for 1 yard loss


Still I agree with you, 27 passes in a half with Orton is too many. Hence, this thread ;D

ChSuperStar
09-20-2009, 06:59 PM
good team or bad team, it is a win.. you should put away a team and not let them sneak up on you. and they did that today, which is a progress from last week. lets take week at a time.

someone said they will stack up the box with 8 people, are you for real. mcd is also pass happy. he can throw slants and kill them and that is probably what he want teams to do. and more over most of these receivers are good with YAC, so if others fo that.. it will work for us that stopping our offense.

Peoples Champ
09-20-2009, 07:03 PM
when does kuper get back? we will be really scary then.

snowspot66
09-20-2009, 07:05 PM
Drek is kinda right ... 11 passes that drive:

SECOND QUARTER

Denver - 4:00
1st-10, DEN5 4:00 K. Moreno rushed to the right for 4 yard gain
2nd-6, DEN10 3:23 K. Moreno rushed to the left for 5 yard gain
3rd-1, DEN15 2:42 K. Moreno rushed to the right for 1 yard gain
1st-10, DEN16 2:05 C. Buckhalter rushed to the right for 4 yard gain
2nd-6, DEN20 1:59 K. Orton incomplete pass to the right
3rd-6, DEN20 1:56 K. Orton passed to E. Royal to the right for 11 yard gain
1st-10, DEN31 1:50 K. Orton incomplete pass to the left
2nd-10, DEN31 1:42 K. Orton incomplete pass to the right
3rd-10, DEN31 1:37 K. Orton passed to B. Stokley to the left for 18 yard gain
1st-10, DEN49 1:32 K. Orton passed to E. Royal to the left for 2 yard gain
2nd-8, CLE49 0:59 CLE committed 18 yard penalty
1st-10, CLE31 0:53 K. Orton incomplete pass down the middle
2nd-10, CLE31 0:47 K. Orton passed to B. Stokley down the middle for 10 yard gain
1st-10, CLE21 0:41 K. Orton incomplete pass to the left
2nd-10, CLE21 0:36 K. Orton incomplete pass to the left
3rd-10, CLE21 0:32 K. Orton incomplete pass to the left
4th-10, CLE21 0:23 M. Prater missed a 39-yard field goal

Cleveland - 0:23
1st-10, CLE29 0:23 B. Quinn rushed up the middle for 1 yard loss


Still I agree with you, 27 passes in a half with Orton is too many. Hence, this thread ;D

No time outs unfortunately. We were forced to pass.

rastaman
09-20-2009, 07:06 PM
Good defense, 2 good RB to give the ball to, sounds a lot like the 2005 season.

We got three RB's....don't forget about Hillis.

Dagmar
09-20-2009, 07:07 PM
when does kuper get back? we will be really scary then.

Erm, today.

lex
09-20-2009, 07:09 PM
Drek is kinda right ... 11 passes that drive:

SECOND QUARTER

Denver - 4:00
1st-10, DEN5 4:00 K. Moreno rushed to the right for 4 yard gain
2nd-6, DEN10 3:23 K. Moreno rushed to the left for 5 yard gain
3rd-1, DEN15 2:42 K. Moreno rushed to the right for 1 yard gain
1st-10, DEN16 2:05 C. Buckhalter rushed to the right for 4 yard gain
2nd-6, DEN20 1:59 K. Orton incomplete pass to the right
3rd-6, DEN20 1:56 K. Orton passed to E. Royal to the right for 11 yard gain
1st-10, DEN31 1:50 K. Orton incomplete pass to the left
2nd-10, DEN31 1:42 K. Orton incomplete pass to the right
3rd-10, DEN31 1:37 K. Orton passed to B. Stokley to the left for 18 yard gain
1st-10, DEN49 1:32 K. Orton passed to E. Royal to the left for 2 yard gain
2nd-8, CLE49 0:59 CLE committed 18 yard penalty
1st-10, CLE31 0:53 K. Orton incomplete pass down the middle
2nd-10, CLE31 0:47 K. Orton passed to B. Stokley down the middle for 10 yard gain
1st-10, CLE21 0:41 K. Orton incomplete pass to the left
2nd-10, CLE21 0:36 K. Orton incomplete pass to the left
3rd-10, CLE21 0:32 K. Orton incomplete pass to the left
4th-10, CLE21 0:23 M. Prater missed a 39-yard field goal

Cleveland - 0:23
1st-10, CLE29 0:23 B. Quinn rushed up the middle for 1 yard loss


Still I agree with you, 27 passes in a half with Orton is too many. Hence, this thread ;D


And like I said, the two minute drill isnt something that was unique to today's game. 27 is a lot no matter how one wants to spin it.

snowspot66
09-20-2009, 07:13 PM
But only one team per half (usually) even gets a chance to do a 2 minute drill. And I would bet that every team that does and successfully moves the ball probably has an inflated pass attempts number during that half.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-20-2009, 07:15 PM
Did anyone else notice Ryan Harris getting absolutely dominated today? Ew... that made me want to poop.

rugbythug
09-20-2009, 07:24 PM
Did anyone else notice Ryan Harris getting absolutely dominated today? Ew... that made me want to poop.

Imagine if he Played DUUUMERVILLE!!!

listopencil
09-20-2009, 07:43 PM
Orton wasn't great but he played a decent game today. He made some nice throws down field too. The whole Offense looked substantially better than last week. I hope they keep improving, good job all around by the Broncos. Things are looking up.

listopencil
09-20-2009, 07:46 PM
Oh by the way, if Marshall doesn't get his head out of his ass he needs to be ****-canned to the sidelines. Drop him to #4WR and let that punk ass b**** ride the pine. Seriously, **** Brandon Marshall. He earned a kick in the God damned nuts with his stupid, lackluster play. He didn't exactly do much to help the O today.

oubronco
09-20-2009, 07:48 PM
Drek is kinda right ... 11 passes that drive:

SECOND QUARTER

Denver - 4:00
1st-10, DEN5 4:00 K. Moreno rushed to the right for 4 yard gain
2nd-6, DEN10 3:23 K. Moreno rushed to the left for 5 yard gain
3rd-1, DEN15 2:42 K. Moreno rushed to the right for 1 yard gain
1st-10, DEN16 2:05 C. Buckhalter rushed to the right for 4 yard gain
2nd-6, DEN20 1:59 K. Orton incomplete pass to the right
3rd-6, DEN20 1:56 K. Orton passed to E. Royal to the right for 11 yard gain
1st-10, DEN31 1:50 K. Orton incomplete pass to the left
2nd-10, DEN31 1:42 K. Orton incomplete pass to the right
3rd-10, DEN31 1:37 K. Orton passed to B. Stokley to the left for 18 yard gain
1st-10, DEN49 1:32 K. Orton passed to E. Royal to the left for 2 yard gain
2nd-8, CLE49 0:59 CLE committed 18 yard penalty
1st-10, CLE31 0:53 K. Orton incomplete pass down the middle
2nd-10, CLE31 0:47 K. Orton passed to B. Stokley down the middle for 10 yard gain
1st-10, CLE21 0:41 K. Orton incomplete pass to the left
2nd-10, CLE21 0:36 K. Orton incomplete pass to the left
3rd-10, CLE21 0:32 K. Orton incomplete pass to the left
4th-10, CLE21 0:23 M. Prater missed a 39-yard field goal

Cleveland - 0:23
1st-10, CLE29 0:23 B. Quinn rushed up the middle for 1 yard loss


Still I agree with you, 27 passes in a half with Orton is too many. Hence, this thread ;D

4 of 11 woohoo

oubronco
09-20-2009, 07:51 PM
Oh by the way, if Marshall doesn't get his head out of his ass he needs to be ****-canned to the sidelines. Drop him to #4WR and let that punk ass b**** ride the pine. Seriously, **** Brandon Marshall. He earned a kick in the God damned nuts with his stupid, lackluster play. He didn't exactly do much to help the O today.

Stokely had 2 drops today right in the hands was he dogging it too

sheesh this sh*t keeps getting better

Rock Chalk
09-20-2009, 07:56 PM
And like I said, the two minute drill isnt something that was unique to today's game. 27 is a lot no matter how one wants to spin it.

I dont think anyone disagrees with you.

But the reality is, no timeouts and running a 2 minute offense produces inflated passing numbers. Sure, its not unique to any specific game, but look at any game where that IS the case and you will find some inflated pass attempts in those games.

The fact that we put in enough plays in a two minute offense to HAVE 11 passing plays is really good stuff. 1, we had at minimum 11 plays on the drive and 2, it was a two minute offense that marched down the field with no timeouts. That in and of itself is encouraging. Sure would have been nice to end it in a TD, but its freaking progress.

Prior to that drive, 16 pass plays were called. A lot, but not really overboard IMO. I, like you, would liek to run the ball more but even with the pass happy there were some good things out of that.
Orton was careful with the ball, threw it away when the heavy blitz was on and no one was open (to his determinent on his stats I might add, but avoided the big sack out of field position this time) and we made the necessary adjustments.

I certainly like most of what Im seeing.

Orange4Life
09-20-2009, 08:49 PM
Oh by the way, if Marshall doesn't get his head out of his ass he needs to be ****-canned to the sidelines. Drop him to #4WR and let that punk ass b**** ride the pine. Seriously, **** Brandon Marshall. He earned a kick in the God damned nuts with his stupid, lackluster play. He didn't exactly do much to help the O today.

I agree with you. That route he fell down on was bad. I felt the second half he kind of woke up a bit though. I hope numbnuts can get it together. Does he even realize with this lackluster play he is costing himself millions?

Drek
09-20-2009, 08:54 PM
And like I said, the two minute drill isnt something that was unique to today's game. 27 is a lot no matter how one wants to spin it.

Sure, completely devoid of ANY context that makes rational, logical discussion possible its a lot.

The fact that the two minute drill had two 3rd down conversions in it is what produced the large number of pass plays.

If you want to get on something about the passing game it should be Orton's horrible completion percentage, not the total number of passes, because it was his inaccuracy on first and second downs that lead to those third down conversions and caused him to have more throwing attempts than normal to move the ball a set distance.

His completion percentage was still pretty ****ty at the end of the game, though he did start improving it in the second half. He needs to pick that up for the offense to really get humming, and to do that he needs to learn when to hit a check down.

ScottXray
09-20-2009, 09:03 PM
Drek is kinda right ... 11 passes that drive:

SECOND QUARTER

Denver - 4:00
1st-10, DEN5 4:00 K. Moreno rushed to the right for 4 yard gain
2nd-6, DEN10 3:23 K. Moreno rushed to the left for 5 yard gain
3rd-1, DEN15 2:42 K. Moreno rushed to the right for 1 yard gain
1st-10, DEN16 2:05 C. Buckhalter rushed to the right for 4 yard gain
2nd-6, DEN20 1:59 K. Orton incomplete pass to the right
3rd-6, DEN20 1:56 K. Orton passed to E. Royal to the right for 11 yard gain
1st-10, DEN31 1:50 K. Orton incomplete pass to the left
2nd-10, DEN31 1:42 K. Orton incomplete pass to the right
3rd-10, DEN31 1:37 K. Orton passed to B. Stokley to the left for 18 yard gain
1st-10, DEN49 1:32 K. Orton passed to E. Royal to the left for 2 yard gain
2nd-8, CLE49 0:59 CLE committed 18 yard penalty
1st-10, CLE31 0:53 K. Orton incomplete pass down the middle
2nd-10, CLE31 0:47 K. Orton passed to B. Stokley down the middle for 10 yard gain
1st-10, CLE21 0:41 K. Orton incomplete pass to the left
2nd-10, CLE21 0:36 K. Orton incomplete pass to the left
3rd-10, CLE21 0:32 K. Orton incomplete pass to the left
4th-10, CLE21 0:23 M. Prater missed a 39-yard field goal

Cleveland - 0:23
1st-10, CLE29 0:23 B. Quinn rushed up the middle for 1 yard loss


Still I agree with you, 27 passes in a half with Orton is too many. Hence, this thread ;D

I agree ,too many passes. but to exacerbate things we had ZERO timeouts left by that point of the half. Using TO's too early and not having them left contributed to the number of passes in that drive.

Normally you see teams that are behind throwing that much...

McD called a good series of downs at the end of the first half in both weeks and should have gotten points in both games.

snowspot66
09-20-2009, 09:04 PM
If he gets those check downs as second nature his completion % should go up 5 to 10 points. Those are a huge part of this offense. He's still thinking about it. Hopefully he'll really get used to the offense over the next week or two. He seems to be getting it so far. We could see improvement from kickoff of game one to the end of game two.

lex
09-20-2009, 09:05 PM
Sure, completely devoid of ANY context that makes rational, logical discussion possible its a lot.

The fact that the two minute drill had two 3rd down conversions in it is what produced the large number of pass plays.

If you want to get on something about the passing game it should be Orton's horrible completion percentage, not the total number of passes, because it was his inaccuracy on first and second downs that lead to those third down conversions and caused him to have more throwing attempts than normal to move the ball a set distance.

His completion percentage was still pretty ****ty at the end of the game, though he did start improving it in the second half. He needs to pick that up for the offense to really get humming, and to do that he needs to learn when to hit a check down.

Like I said, todays game wasnt unique in that they ran a two minute drill which required passing. There was nothing unique about today to give it the "context" that your lobbying for.

Garcia Bronco
09-20-2009, 09:08 PM
Orton wasn't as much the prolem in the second quarter as much as the rush from the right. We made the adjustment in the second half, but still...it was like 20 straight offense plays of getting beat on the right. I was disappointed an adjustment wasn't made sooner.

lex
09-20-2009, 09:10 PM
If he gets those check downs as second nature his completion % should go up 5 to 10 points. Those are a huge part of this offense. He's still thinking about it. Hopefully he'll really get used to the offense over the next week or two. He seems to be getting it so far. We could see improvement from kickoff of game one to the end of game two.


Dont assume that Orton will start doing this. His tendency to lock onto guys isnt exactly driven by playing in a new system. Prior to this season, i accessed the Bears-Saints game from last year in the comcast menu and watched it in anticipation for the season. There was one point in the game where Collinsworth said that Orton doesnt look off guys and that he gets lost when doing so...and that this is a difference between he and Brees.

It made it seem like Orton really relies on pre-snap reads a lot because he's not comfortbale scanning for other WRs. This commentary was driven by observing him in an offense that he was very familar with.

Popcorn Sutton
09-20-2009, 09:14 PM
Good team or bad team it took a helluva 2nd half to beat them last season... We win going away today leaving 2 missed field goals out there.

snowspot66
09-20-2009, 09:15 PM
Well then it will be up to McDaniels to come up with a way to make it work.

If Kubes and Shanny could get Plummer of all people to cut down on his INT's then we should be able to get Orton to look left if nobody is open.

lex
09-20-2009, 09:17 PM
Orton wasn't as much the prolem in the second quarter as much as the rush from the right. We made the adjustment in the second half, but still...it was like 20 straight offense plays of getting beat on the right. I was disappointed an adjustment wasn't made sooner.

The funny thing is, that a lot, if not all, of Dooms sacks came from the right. One thing thats kind of interesting in observing coaches is that coaches will sometimes tip their own hand by attacking weaknesses that they feel are their own, especially when you have system. For example, Mangini watches a lot of film on his own team and sees teams attacking his right tackle...so this permeates his own thought and compels him to do this as well. There are other examples where you kind of wonder about stuff like this. For example, one is drafting Alfonso Smith. Since McDaniels runs a system that uses a lot of WRs that run quicker routes, he sees the value in drafting someone like Smith...essentially defending his his own team. How many times has he seen the value in this watching film against his own team and soe that is what drives the pick. The thing is that not all teams spread the field as much even though its fairly prevalent.

BroncoBuff
09-20-2009, 09:18 PM
Gotta love the zero interceptions these first two games ...

Just please keep that up you neckbeard bastage :pray:

Br0nc0Buster
09-20-2009, 09:21 PM
I loved the Buckhalter signing, I just hope his knees can hold up

One reason at the time I wasnt super high on Moreno is because I thought he was just a younger slightly more powerful version of Buckhalter

Drek
09-20-2009, 09:24 PM
Like I said, todays game wasnt unique in that they ran a two minute drill which required passing. There was nothing unique about today to give it the "context" that your lobbying for.

"The fact that the two minute drill had two 3rd down conversions in it is what produced the large number of pass plays."

Try rereading my post if you don't get it the first time.

Typical two minute drills do not have three first downs after the two minute warning. Even fewer have two of those first downs come on 3rd down. The two minute drill Orton put on out there was a rarity, in both a good and bad way. Too many incompletions on 1st and 2nd down, surprise 3rd down conversions to keep the drive alive.

That is the context you seem unable to comprehend. Orton ran a 2 minute drill by mostly dinking and dunking but still moved from the Denver 20 to the Cleveland 21, and had multiple shots at the end zone before the FG unit was sent in. Hence the huge number of passes. No timeouts, a sub-50% completion rate, and a freakish number of 3rd down conversions produces a **** ton of pass attempts.

lex
09-20-2009, 09:32 PM
"The fact that the two minute drill had two 3rd down conversions in it is what produced the large number of pass plays."

Try rereading my post if you don't get it the first time.

Typical two minute drills do not have three first downs after the two minute warning. Even fewer have two of those first downs come on 3rd down. The two minute drill Orton put on out there was a rarity, in both a good and bad way. Too many incompletions on 1st and 2nd down, surprise 3rd down conversions to keep the drive alive.

That is the context you seem unable to comprehend. Orton ran a 2 minute drill by mostly dinking and dunking but still moved from the Denver 20 to the Cleveland 21, and had multiple shots at the end zone before the FG unit was sent in. Hence the huge number of passes. No timeouts, a sub-50% completion rate, and a freakish number of 3rd down conversions produces a **** ton of pass attempts.


Its not that I didnt understand it as much as I simply dont acknowledge it as a point with validity. 27 for the first half is a lot. Most games have two minute drives at the end of the half but even with that, you dont often see 27 passes in the first half. Thats a pace for 54 passes. A lot of teams would rather avoid that because theyd prefer more balance and for good reason. Also understand that the typical NFL game has between 120 and 130 plays between both teams. Thats 60-65 plays per team. 54 of that, is something coaches want to avoid typically if the can. You usually see 54 passes when coaches know thats how they have to win and so they arent at all worried about running or when teams get behind and they have to throw 54 times.

BroncoBuff
09-20-2009, 10:28 PM
We can all agree it was a very good 2-minute drive, until the last three incompletions anyway.

Started inside our own 10, and moved all the way into FG range. Not Kyle's fault Prater missed, Kyle basically did his job there.

Drek
09-21-2009, 05:01 AM
Its not that I didnt understand it as much as I simply dont acknowledge it as a point with validity. 27 for the first half is a lot. Most games have two minute drives at the end of the half but even with that, you dont often see 27 passes in the first half.

Most 2 minute drills don't consist of repeated incompletions on first and second down, followed by first down completions on 3rd in which the receiver gets out of bounds repeatedly.

It was a pathetic attempt at passing on 1st and 2nd downs, it was a text book example of how everyone hopes to run the two minute drill on 3rd downs. It was one of the biggest hot and cold swings within a possession I've seen in football recently. THAT is the aberration here.

If you don't think that is valid then you just don't have a willingness to accept an obvious source of the outlier. Its as definitive a cause > effect relationship as you'll find in an NFL game.