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View Full Version : When do you panic if our offense struggles?


broncocalijohn
09-17-2009, 11:13 PM
Poll coming and it will be public so no back tracking your opinion! First, I am pro Broncos Organization so this isnt some Lex thread. It has been a few days now since our win vs Bengals but we have known since preseason that our offense wont be explosive and possibly a very vanilla offense. Some say horrible. When do we complain outloud and/or panic. There could be suggestions of player changes and there is always the sky has already fallen crowd (MOCK!). You decide.

chaz
09-17-2009, 11:18 PM
if we're still struggling after playing the browns and the raiders it will be a long year

sisterhellfyre
09-17-2009, 11:22 PM
When do we complain outloud and/or panic. There could be suggestions of player changes and there is always the sky has already fallen crowd (MOCK!). You decide.

I'm taking "end of the season" because you never know when the light may go on over some player's head. That moment when it all starts to slow down and make sense... I'm hoping it comes sooner than later for Kyle.

Rocket 7
09-17-2009, 11:29 PM
Take the panic crowd to the Knights Inn to relax.

BroncoMan4ever
09-17-2009, 11:29 PM
i will be concerned after week 5. last week was the first time we have had our full offense on the field, and we were missing a major piece to our line with Kuper being out. Marshall is not anywhere near in game shape, Moreno is still working his way into the system and being on the field again, and even though Orton looked ok with the glove, it is still a hindrance that until it is off we won't see our offense at full power.
give it a couple weeks, we'll get it into gear.

broncocalijohn
09-17-2009, 11:38 PM
Take the panic crowd to the Knights Inn to relax.

lol! I only know one Maner that stays there and I think he is opting for VQ this weekend. Front desk will probably put them right next to me (no it isnt Hogan and Sassy).
As for my opinion, I am waiting until week 4. I think coach should know who he wants to be in the backfield and I figure 4 full games at QB should give Orton and McDaniels enough time to know what they can and cant do on the field.

strafen
09-17-2009, 11:53 PM
We're already struggling...
Orton is a joke
He needs to be benched. No way our offense will be productive with that idiot at QB...

UberBroncoMan
09-18-2009, 12:20 AM
I assume Week 4 is leading up to Dallas.

If we are not on target after THE BROWNS and THE RAIDERS... then ****.

That said, I'm already worrying... it's just not a full blown panic yet.

enjolras
09-18-2009, 12:25 AM
I guess it depends on your expectations. This isn't a playoff team, not even close. I just want to see constant improvement. I want to see the young guys grow and evolve. As long as we're better at the end of the season than when we started it.. I'll be thrilled.

Archer81
09-18-2009, 12:46 AM
First year in a new system. I expect them to look good one week, then look pretty average the next. If we are still going three and out on 8 straight drives at the beginning of next season, then freak out.

:Broncos:

Taco John
09-18-2009, 12:49 AM
For my part, I start to seriously monitor the team in November for signs of cohesion, heads-up play, opportunity taking, and etc. I take losses in November hard. September and October, not so much - except if we're losing to a division rival at home. But the way I look at Sept. and Oct. is like you would look at the first leg of a triathalon. If we get behind, no big deal, we can make it up in the next leg. If we can split through September and October, we've got a shot at going all the way, provided the team builds off that .500 platform by adding an extra game each month.

4-4 is not a bad place to be, just so long as it turns into 5-4. I panic at 4-5. You give up a lot of leverage at 4-5. It's not an impossible situation, but the ship most definitely needs to be righted. The game played the week after you've reached 4-5 is essentially a playoff game. You're entire season is a wing and a prayer if you lose that game. The coaches are unhappy. The locker room is unhappy. The fans are unhappy. And the media has a feeding frenzy questioning everything from the coach to the carpet layer. If the team at that point can catch the "it's us against the world" spark and show some life, then I get optimistic again.

Of course, it's a sliding scale. But I really don't panic until the 4-5 point, unless at some point it looks doubtful that we can even reach 4-4.

WolfpackGuy
09-18-2009, 06:12 AM
I don't think it's a question of "IF" they'll struggle...
They should just put in Brandstater.
At least it'll be a rookie looking like a rookie, not a veteran looking like a rookie.

TailgateNut
09-18-2009, 06:26 AM
Had to take end of season due to the limited options. I'll go on record for 8 weeks. If for some reason we are struggling at that point I'll be concerned. I'm not looking for our team to put up huge numbers but I don't want to see them wear out our D which has shown vast improvements.(they actually know how to tackle, and bring some pressure this year) I prefer a balanced team that holds the opponent to a reasonable amount of points and for our offense to control the clock, limit turnovers and put a decent amount of points on the board.

cmhargrove
09-18-2009, 06:28 AM
Seriously - i'm not panicking at all with this group.

Like mentioned before, we might end up good enough to make the playoffs if the Chargers tank again, but most likely we will miss thhe playoffs with even a 9-7 record (if the Chargers do well).

I'm just enjoying the ride. Last week was really fun. Do that again.

I like having a defense again. Once we start running the ball a little more consistently, I think our offense will look much better. Orton was very average (even subpar), but I think he will get better. At least he didn't turn the ball over, which was huge. However, if we can't get the ball rolling woith all this talent, I will start to be concerned around week 5.

That Patriots game was humiliating last year. If McD can't figure out his old team (potentially without Mayo), i'll get a little worried. But hey - i'll start cheering for the defense.

rastaman
09-18-2009, 06:37 AM
We're already struggling...
Orton is a joke
He needs to be benched. No way our offense will be productive with that idiot at QB...

Orton is definitely the Great Pretender! Kyle is playing just well enough for a backup QB job after this season. He's not concerned about winning--so much as he's concerned about signing a new deal after his 995K salary ends after this season.

He's probably looking at signing with another team as their backup for around 2.5 million a year. Think about it....all he needs to do is show he has a pulse, not force any passes, and regardless how much he sucks in 09, some team will still pick him for 2.0 mil a season while riding the pine.

Not a bad gig! Where else can Kyle make that type of dough as a civilian!!! Hell maybe McD will resign Kyle as his backup.

tnedator
09-18-2009, 06:39 AM
I don't think many people 'honestly' thought our offense wouldn't have struggles. The only question was whether they would temporary or permanent (until we find a better solution at QB).

Hopefully, Orton gets to the point where he is running the system well, but that still remains to be seen.

colonelbeef
09-18-2009, 06:40 AM
We have no QB. This is not a surprise.

rastaman
09-18-2009, 06:46 AM
I guess it depends on your expectations. This isn't a playoff team, not even close. I just want to see constant improvement. I want to see the young guys grow and evolve. As long as we're better at the end of the season than when we started it.. I'll be thrilled.

I think you've lowered expectations here. With the exception of Cutler and Shanny gone from the offense, there is still enough talent on the offense to make some noise. The online is intact, the RB's are healthy, and all the WR's are back. You take into consideration that Nolan has the Defense playing much better already. So it seems like weakest Link right now is at the QB position and the uncertainty of whether Orton can prove he's the answer to move the offense.

TailgateNut
09-18-2009, 06:48 AM
Thanks for your insightful post Mr. "I HAVE A BEEF" with the Broncos.

I guess you also think Jay's performance last week was that of a NFL caliber QB.
A 40 something rating is AWESOME.

rastaman
09-18-2009, 06:54 AM
Thanks for your insightful post Mr. "I HAVE A BEEF" with the Broncos.

I guess you also think Jay's performance last week was that of a NFL caliber QB.
A 40 something rating is AWESOME.

Nope! Jake had a horrible game just like Orton had a horrible game. Now I do think Orton went to midnight mass to thank the gods for allowing his "Close-Your-Eyes" Hail Mary pass to come to fruition. Perhaps Cutler needs to return to the church as well for some guidance on making better decisions and taking care of the ball. But other than that, I still believe Cutler will have a better season than Orton will.

TailgateNut
09-18-2009, 06:55 AM
I think you've lowered expectations here. With the exception of Cutler and Shanny gone from the offense, there is still enough talent on the offense to make some noise. The online is intact, the RB's are healthy, and all the WR's are back. You take into consideration that Nolan has the Defense playing much better already. So it seems like weakest Link right now is at the QB position and the uncertainty of whether Orton can prove he's the answer to move the offense.

WR- one isn't back yet, he's questionable (mental health and physical determination).
RB's- Is Moreno 100%, if yes he hasn't shown much to date. Time to unleash "the beast".
QB-I'd like to see you throw the rock with the type of injury Kyle has on his index finger. I was surprised he could put a spiral on the ball with a ****ed up index finger. (kinda like bowling without a thumb).


Lowered expectations? Yes, a bit on the offense. I don't expect the sheer yardage of last year, but at the same time I expect a better point to yds ratio.
I also expect to see a vast improvement on D and ST.

rastaman
09-18-2009, 06:55 AM
We have no QB. This is not a surprise.

I agree, the QB position is our weakest link right now.

backup qb
09-18-2009, 07:02 AM
If we struggle this week, I will be truly worried.

Popcorn Sutton
09-18-2009, 07:03 AM
I would like to see that the offense can put an entire game together by week 4-5. That means Orton playing well, the receivers not dropping passes, the running game getting on track and no crucial penalties when they are trying to salt a game away. If the offense is still putting up 6 points in the first 58 minutes of the game I'll be a bit concerned. I don't see this as a playoff team but I'd like to say we are a little better than John Clayton and the ESPiN idiots think. If we can't put together a decent game on the offensive side of the ball in the first quarter of the season it's time to wonder if those idiots are right.

TailgateNut
09-18-2009, 07:04 AM
I still believe Cutler will have a better season than Orton will.

Better season? as in?

More yds? Most likely.
More points? likely.
More Interception? No f-in doubt
Better team record? toss up.
More blaming his team for his screw ups? No f-in doubt.

rastaman
09-18-2009, 07:04 AM
WR- one isn't back yet, he's questionable (mental health and physical determination).

Thats no surprise there. Its going to take sometine to work out the mental situation. He's definitely an unhappy camper. What to watch for however, is whether Orton can pull the trigger to get Bmarsh the ball to be most effective and successful. Orton throwing Brandon wobbly-weak passes just won't cut it in 09.

RB's- Is Moreno 100%, if yes he hasn't shown much to date. Time to unleash "the beast".

We need to start Hillis-Buckhalter RBBC. Moreno isn't ready and we shouldn't rush him back at least until week 8 or 9. Moreno won't be effective until next season.

QB-I'd like to see you throw the rock with the type of injury Kyle has on his index finger. I was surprised he could put a spiral on the ball with a ****ed up index finger. (kinda like bowling without a thumb).

So basically you're saying Kyle shouldn't have been in there! Orton has already shown his inconsistencies and limitations prior to the finger injuries. Why was he forced to start?


Lowered expectations? Yes, a bit on the offense. I don't expect the sheer yardage of last year, but at the same time I expect a better point to yds ratio.
I also expect to see a vast improvement on D and ST.

I agree. The defense is where fans should take the most hope from. I for one am worried that if the offense doesn't pick it up.....the Def. will be worn down and out often.

Inkana7
09-18-2009, 07:06 AM
Why would I ever panic? I'm not a coach or player..

jhns
09-18-2009, 07:10 AM
I started to panic the second I found out we have a coach that thinks cassel and orton are better options than Cutler. We look pretty pathetic out there now. Maybe it was just the great bengal defense though.

atomicbloke
09-18-2009, 07:28 AM
For my part, I start to seriously monitor the team in November for signs of cohesion, heads-up play, opportunity taking, and etc. I take losses in November hard. September and October, not so much - except if we're losing to a division rival at home. But the way I look at Sept. and Oct. is like you would look at the first leg of a triathalon. If we get behind, no big deal, we can make it up in the next leg. If we can split through September and October, we've got a shot at going all the way, provided the team builds off that .500 platform by adding an extra game each month.

4-4 is not a bad place to be, just so long as it turns into 5-4. I panic at 4-5. You give up a lot of leverage at 4-5. It's not an impossible situation, but the ship most definitely needs to be righted. The game played the week after you've reached 4-5 is essentially a playoff game. You're entire season is a wing and a prayer if you lose that game. The coaches are unhappy. The locker room is unhappy. The fans are unhappy. And the media has a feeding frenzy questioning everything from the coach to the carpet layer. If the team at that point can catch the "it's us against the world" spark and show some life, then I get optimistic again.

Of course, it's a sliding scale. But I really don't panic until the 4-5 point, unless at some point it looks doubtful that we can even reach 4-4.

What BS are you spouting Taco?

I remember the 2006 season going in to the SD game, we are 7 and 2. We lost a tight game to fall to 7 - 3 and you were all gloom and doom about the team.

Hypocrisy much?

ScottXray
09-18-2009, 07:44 AM
I chose after week three. If we can't get it going a lot better by then, the rest of the season gets harder. It will then be a long year.

There are always going to be off games, but if the offense can't move consistently the D will wear out by mid year. We have an older secondary.

O has to carry its share of the load. If not then changes need to be maade to try to generate a spark.

Popcorn Sutton
09-18-2009, 07:46 AM
I started to panic the second I found out we have a coach that thinks cassel and orton are better options than Cutler. We look pretty pathetic out there now. Maybe it was just the great bengal defense though.

Ignorant much.

Old Dude
09-18-2009, 08:22 AM
Well, for me it kinda depends.

I don't put much emphasis on week one, because this time of year the defenses are usually ahead of the offenses across the league.

That's especially true when we've got a new QB in a new system. Then add to that the issues with Orton (injury), Moreno (injury and missed reps), Marshall (missed reps), Kuper (injury), Hochstein (practically just got here) and Gaffney (injury), and no one shoud reasonably have expected this offense to look very impressive on the road against an above-average defense. (Cincy ranked #12 last year.)

I expect to see some substantial improvement this week. But I'm still not expecting to see the offense score in the 30s. Mid-20s would be fine. If they are held again to 14 points or less, that will be worrisome, but not grounds for panic.

Same principles for week three, but by then, I'll be less patient.

If we can't crack the 20 point mark by game 4, then I will go into official panic mode.

tsiguy96
09-18-2009, 08:37 AM
week 5. they are missing some of their best players and their corners are old. the pats d is not what it used to be, you cant be top 10 after losing so many of their best D players including seymour and mayo. if marshall stops being a pussy he should get an easy 120 yards.

McMastermind
09-18-2009, 09:08 AM
When do you start to complain about our offense if still struggling?

When....and if, they are officially eliminated from the PO's

watermock
09-18-2009, 09:41 AM
Anyone who isn't allready concerned either naive or living in HappyUnicornLand.

I guess it's the same place.

An average D inst going to help with a similar step back on O, but Cutler rivaled Orton.

We should win week 2 and 3 but who really knows.

Not getting Hillis the ball and letting Moreno limp around out there is flat out idiotic.

Crushaholic
09-18-2009, 11:24 AM
There's no panicking until McDaniels shows a pattern of suckitude. That hasn't happened, yet. McDaniels is still experimenting with the right running back/combination of running backs. Give the man a little time to get the offense going...

Br0nc0Buster
09-18-2009, 11:30 AM
I see reason for optimism as far as the offense because:
1. We still have great talent on that side of the ball
2. McDaniels was an offensive coordinator
3. Players are still getting used to one another and the system in general(Welker said it took him a year before he was "comfortable" in Josh's offense)

So I think it is fair to say that the offense will improve as the season progresses if Josh really is the X and 0s wizard he is supposed to be

Popps
09-18-2009, 11:34 AM
I'll say around week 4, if we're not showing improvement, it's time for a little concern. Panic is a strong word. But, by a few weeks into the season, we should be seeing improvement of some sort.

It sure feels to me like this offense is on the verge of breaking out every week, and we just keep stepping on our own foot. It looks like little things holding us back more than big, structural problems.

I have a gut feeling we'll break out a bit this weekend. We shall see.

rastaman
09-18-2009, 11:37 AM
Anyone who isn't allready concerned either naive or living in HappyUnicornLand.

I guess it's the same place.

An average D inst going to help with a similar step back on O, but Cutler rivaled Orton.

We should win week 2 and 3 but who really knows.

Not getting Hillis the ball and letting Moreno limp around out there is flat out idiotic.

Why are we even playing Moreno? He obviously isn't 100%.

DHallblows
09-18-2009, 01:33 PM
Week 3. If we still look like **** after our 3 easy games, I'm gonna start panicking given the next 5...

watermock
09-18-2009, 01:40 PM
Why are we even playing Moreno? He obviously isn't 100%.

But he just said he was 100%, any fool could see he isn't, and if that's it, he's complete bust.

S-L-O-W.

BlaK-Argentina
09-18-2009, 01:47 PM
But he just said he was 100%, any fool could see he isn't, and if that's it, he's complete bust.

S-L-O-W.

Wow. And you're being serious. Wow.

watermock
09-18-2009, 01:55 PM
If he's 100%.

Damn right. He's not even being taught zone blocking.

Our pass blocking was superb last year, line blocking was average at best.

In fact, Moreno went thru 2 OC's. They eventually went back to smashmouth football from the spread that failed.

Georgia was the most dissapointing team outside of ND.

I get SEC games all the time.

Yeah, I'm dead serious. Frankly, I think he's still hampered by the PCL...

Dedhed
09-18-2009, 01:56 PM
I went with week 4 with a caveat. Orton probably won't be 100% until week 3, so it will be difficult to judge anything before that. If the offense is only luke warm by week 4 but there is noticeable improvement each week, I'm willing to extend my panic. If things are static and still depressing then I'll turn on the panic sirens and be calling for Brandstater.

I will not be calling for Simms at all this year. Despite the whiners he is not an upgrade over Orton, and if we're going to scrub Orton it should be with an eye to the future. That certainly isn't Simms.

Taco John
09-18-2009, 02:43 PM
What BS are you spouting Taco?

I remember the 2006 season going in to the SD game, we are 7 and 2. We lost a tight game to fall to 7 - 3 and you were all gloom and doom about the team.

Hypocrisy much?



Not at all. That was after Plummer's second year. I had already lost faith in Plummer at that point. He had proven to me that in a big game, he couldn't be relied on. I had no faith in the idea that he could play three big games in a row and lead this team to victory on the Superbowl National Platform.

I shudder to think about watching Plummer in a Superbowl game. I think he'd have embarassed us. Just my opinion based on his history. You're welcome to yours.

Old Dude
09-18-2009, 02:57 PM
The other thing about week four is that I think the D can keep us close in weeks 1-3. But I can't see any way this team can hope to beat the Dallas Cowboys without some serious offensive production.

doonwise
09-18-2009, 09:54 PM
McDaniels is a long-term investment and I love what he's done with the team since arriving. However, the offense and defense must be in the top 10 by 12/31/2010 (seriously) or I will be ready for a coaching change. Until then, I'm enjoying the ride.

Durango
09-18-2009, 11:15 PM
The Broncos have to improve on 6 points considering the offensive talent. Good grief. If they show some life against the mighty Browns, then that should allay fears for a week, and then there's the Raiders out in that pit. I agree the break point is around the 4-4, 5-4, 4-5 mark, especially considering the schedule. IF the team makes it to the 4-4 mark, that would mean we knocked off a top team somewhere in that quagmire stretch of contenders week in and week out, and things might be improving.

All that means little if the Broncos screw up the home opener against the Browns. The panic will be full force and fed by the media, local and national if that happens.

tsiguy96
09-18-2009, 11:25 PM
McDaniels is a long-term investment and I love what he's done with the team since arriving. However, the offense and defense must be in the top 10 by 12/31/2010 (seriously) or I will be ready for a coaching change. Until then, I'm enjoying the ride.

that doesnt happen often. great teams are GREAT on one side of the ball and adequate on the other....

v2micca
09-19-2009, 05:31 AM
I'll panic when we start losing games because of our offense and we still stubbornly continue to start Orton.

NYBronco
09-19-2009, 06:02 AM
I'll panic when we start losing games because of our offense and we still stubbornly continue to start Orton.

I like your optimism, many gave up on the team as a whole even before the Broncos played their first preseason game. Submit your resume to the Bronco organization, I'm sure they would like to hire you as an offensive genius.

Spider
09-19-2009, 06:19 AM
I dont panic ..........

rastaman
09-19-2009, 06:34 AM
Better season? as in?

More yds? Most likely.
More points? likely.
More Interception? No f-in doubt
Better team record? toss up.
More blaming his team for his screw ups? No f-in doubt.


More yds? Most likely.
More points? likely.
More Interception? Gunslingers always do. "Live N Die With It"
Better team record? Most Likely.
More blaming his team for his screw ups? "Tell it like it is"

I agree with ya....Cutler makes throws Noodle Armed QB's (won't mention any names) can only dream off......should he ever correct those tendencies---LOOK OUT! What is intriguing w/ Jay now is he's on a team with a Defense which will allow him to recover from bonehead decisions. And once Cutler and his WR's get on the same page, the Bear fans will enjoy a balanced pass and running attack--the Def. will enjoy getting rest. This is the potential Cutler brings to the Bears.

I noticed the body language of Cutlers teammates thru out last week's game, and what I saw was the ALL THE PLAYERS rallying around Cutler. They haven't lost confidence in him yet! In other words, the players right now believe Cutler can win. Of course that can change---but I doubt it.

Also, keep this in mind, Noodle Arm QB's lack confidence and don't force throws b/c they don't have confidence the ball will get there in time nor hit they're target. Most Defenses who have Noodle Arm QB's on their team already know they're going to be on the field an awful lot.

Unless that Noodle Arm (Incubator) QB is surrounded by talent i.e a great OL that gives them 5 seconds to "Dink-N-Dunk" passes, and a RBBC that can avg 4.5 per carry, and sure handed WR's who are willing to take punishment catching those weak-ass passes from their noodle-armed QB; its going to be rough playing in an offense with a QB with mediocre talent and one that has already reached their potential.

elsid13
09-19-2009, 06:49 AM
I be will strongly concerned if the offense doesn't improve vastly over last week's performance. New systems, new players is greatly overstated in today's NFL, since the amount of time spent in off season getting the verbiage down and understanding the basic goals of any system.

The first couple of weeks this offense should be rolling since no one has any film on it, by weeks 4 and 5 any systemic advantage will disappear as DC have enough film to gameplan with.

Meck77
09-21-2009, 02:44 AM
I shudder to think about watching Plummer in a Superbowl game. I think he'd have embarassed us. Just my opinion based on his history. You're welcome to yours.

Yeah it's much better to not even make the playoffs with a leader like Cutler at the the helm. Hilarious!

Taco your takes kill me. If we had it your way we wouldn't have even gotten on the field this season because it was clear we were doomed, our owner was insane, and our coach was and QB were worthless.