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Quoydogs
09-15-2009, 09:24 PM
OK, I have stayed quiet on the whole Orton thing but I have came to this realization and I need a answer.

Why is it our offense was able to score 21 or more points almost every game last year and was barely able to score one TD against a sub par defense. I mean it has to point to Orton right?? What else has changed?? Am I missing something?? Oh and this is not a bash on Orton thred.

Rock Chalk
09-15-2009, 09:26 PM
OK, I have stayed quiet on the whole Orton thing but I have came to this realization and I need a answer.

Why is it our offense was able to score 21 or more points almost every game last year and was barely able to score one TD against a sub par defense. I mean it has to point to Orton right?? What else has changed??

HC, OC, Kuper down, New RB, new sytem, new QB.

ANy other questions?

DBroncos4life
09-15-2009, 09:30 PM
The Bengals D isn't sub-par, but I don't see how anyone could be impressed with that game plan. We dropped a lot of balls but so did the Bengals. The biggest problem is going to be sacks. For all of the bad Cutler gets credit for he does need to be given more credit for keeping plays alive and not getting sacks. Orton taking that sack to take us out of field goal range was a bad play on his part. If that doesn't happen we don't need god to help us win that game.

Quoydogs
09-15-2009, 09:31 PM
HC, OC, Kuper down, New RB, new sytem, new QB.

ANy other questions?

HC I think did a good Job

Kuper down did suck but on the same hand he had plenty of time to get rid of the ball

RB I think was an upgrade.

New system I will give you but I don't think that was the problem. If we had the same players last year running that offense we would have gotten 3 or more TD'd

So Again I think it points to QB

Rock Chalk
09-15-2009, 09:34 PM
HC I think did a great Job

Kuper down did suck but on the same hand he had plenty of time to get rid of the ball

RB I think was an upgrade.

New system I will give you but I don't think that was the problem. If we had the same players last year running that offense we would have gotten 3 or more TD'd

So Again I think it points to QB

No, you asked what else besides the QB changed.

You did not ask about an opinion on that.

But here's an opinion.

Early in the year most offenses are behind defenses. That is the case with most teams, even ones that don't have a new system. Not all, but most. Teams with new systems are almost ALWAYS behind the curve, especially when they have new QBs as well. Teams with new QBs, new systems AND new HCs and OCs and with their super stud starting Guard who didn't give up a single sack the season prior are going to likely struggle.

Add in teh fact that the new RB, while eventually may be an upgrade, didn't do jack squat (8 rushes for 19 yards) and receivers were dropping balls left and right and you have your answer.

You can point some on Orton sure, but there were plenty of problems to go around.

Rock Chalk
09-15-2009, 09:37 PM
Oh, and for the record, we had a 5 game stretch last year where we didn't score 3 TDs in a game and 3/8ths of our TDs were rushing TDs. Since our run game was practically non-existant, that certainly didn't help.

And I disagree that our HC did a great job play calling. HIs personell decision to remove Buckhalter and insert Moreno into the lineup was a bad one when Buck was averaging well over 5 yards a carry and Moreno couldnt even muster half that.

azbroncfan
09-15-2009, 09:38 PM
I know maybe we could get Manning from Indy for Orton and a 2nd round pick since his Offense only scored 14pt. I'm sure they are upset too.

baja
09-15-2009, 09:39 PM
The Bengals D isn't sub-par, but I don't see how anyone could be impressed with that game plan. We dropped a lot of balls but so did the Bengals. The biggest problem is going to be sacks. For all of the bad Cutler gets credit for he does need to be given more credit for keeping plays alive and not getting sacks. Orton taking that sack to take us out of field goal range was a bad play on his part. If that doesn't happen we don't need god to help us win that game.

Your wrong, God was at the New England game.

Quoydogs
09-15-2009, 09:39 PM
No, you asked what else besides the QB changed.

You did not ask about an opinion on that.

But here's an opinion.

Early in the year most offenses are behind defenses. That is the case with most teams, even ones that don't have a new system. Not all, but most. Teams with new systems are almost ALWAYS behind the curve, especially when they have new QBs as well. Teams with new QBs, new systems AND new HCs and OCs and with their super stud starting Guard who didn't give up a single sack the season prior are going to likely struggle.

Add in teh fact that the new RB, while eventually may be an upgrade, didn't do jack squat (8 rushes for 19 yards) and receivers were dropping balls left and right and you have your answer.

You can point some on Orton sure, but there were plenty of problems to go around.
See now this is what I am talking about. Thanks man.

Quoydogs
09-15-2009, 09:41 PM
Your wrong, God was at the New England game.

Kneel the Fricken ball !!!!

Quoydogs
09-15-2009, 09:44 PM
Oh, and for the record, we had a 5 game stretch last year where we didn't score 3 TDs in a game and 3/8ths of our TDs were rushing TDs. Since our run game was practically non-existant, that certainly didn't help.

And I disagree that our HC did a great job play calling. HIs personell decision to remove Buckhalter and insert Moreno into the lineup was a bad one when Buck was averaging well over 5 yards a carry and Moreno couldnt even muster half that.

I have to disagree with you here. I thought the play calling was good. It was not flashy like last year but I think that is something that we are going to see a lot of. I seems to work for NE.

As for Buckhalter I don't think he can make it a full game. Seems that there was a article on that before the season started. There were many on this board that were pissed because we paid that much for someone who could not play a whole game.

DBroncos4life
09-15-2009, 09:46 PM
Your wrong, God was at the New England game.

No a player made a foolish play. While taking that kick out of the EZ was bad him trying to fight for a extra yard was flat out retarded. Players make mistakes. Our play was the longest ever game winning TD in NFL history, that is gods work.

DBroncos4life
09-15-2009, 09:50 PM
I know maybe we could get Manning from Indy for Orton and a 2nd round pick since his Offense only scored 14pt. I'm sure they are upset too.

So you don't think there is much difference between Manning or Orton?

maher_tyler
09-15-2009, 09:59 PM
No, you asked what else besides the QB changed.

You did not ask about an opinion on that.

But here's an opinion.

Early in the year most offenses are behind defenses. That is the case with most teams, even ones that don't have a new system. Not all, but most. Teams with new systems are almost ALWAYS behind the curve, especially when they have new QBs as well. Teams with new QBs, new systems AND new HCs and OCs and with their super stud starting Guard who didn't give up a single sack the season prior are going to likely struggle.

Add in teh fact that the new RB, while eventually may be an upgrade, didn't do jack squat (8 rushes for 19 yards) and receivers were dropping balls left and right and you have your answer.

You can point some on Orton sure, but there were plenty of problems to go around.

This! Coupled with the fact that Orton doesn't have the greatest arm strength and can't get the ball down the field consistantly. Those two throws at the end of the game seemed to float in the air forever. When we do throw it down field, guys need to catch a very easily catchable ball hense Marshall!

maher_tyler
09-15-2009, 10:01 PM
I have to disagree with you here. I thought the play calling was good. It was not flashy like last year but I think that is something that we are going to see a lot of. I seems to work for NE.

As for Buckhalter I don't think he can make it a full game. Seems that there was a article on that before the season started. There were many on this board that were pissed because we paid that much for someone who could not play a whole game.

It's not that, just flip the amount of carries both Moreno and Buck got and everything is gravy. Buck was picking up good yardage, why fix something thats not broken? McD should have stayed with him a little bit more IMO.

lex
09-15-2009, 10:17 PM
Oh, and for the record, we had a 5 game stretch last year where we didn't score 3 TDs in a game and 3/8ths of our TDs were rushing TDs. Since our run game was practically non-existant, that certainly didn't help.

And I disagree that our HC did a great job play calling. HIs personell decision to remove Buckhalter and insert Moreno into the lineup was a bad one when Buck was averaging well over 5 yards a carry and Moreno couldnt even muster half that.

I dont think there was one run of Moreno's that I saw where Buckhalter could have done better. Moreno had a few times where he had to fight through clutter in the backfield.

lex
09-15-2009, 10:24 PM
OK, I have stayed quiet on the whole Orton thing but I have came to this realization and I need a answer.

Why is it our offense was able to score 21 or more points almost every game last year and was barely able to score one TD against a sub par defense. I mean it has to point to Orton right?? What else has changed?? Am I missing something?? Oh and this is not a bash on Orton thred.

You can complain about how Cutler's arm strength all you want but the realit is that even though he may throw INTs his arm strength alone makes the defense defend the whole field. It was the same thing in 2006 when Plummer's struggles was leading to the running game struggling. They put Cutler in there and suddenly the defense had to respect the pass more. It opens up the field. When you have limited armstrength like Orton, its like trying to win chess by almost exclusively trying to use your pawns. Orton is trying to throw short passes and a lot of the defense knows it.

baja
09-15-2009, 10:28 PM
No a player made a foolish play. While taking that kick out of the EZ was bad him trying to fight for a extra yard was flat out retarded. Players make mistakes. Our play was the longest ever game winning TD in NFL history, that is gods work.

I never said He changed the game He was there because He is a Belichick fan.

ZONA
09-15-2009, 11:02 PM
I don't know why people keep on this thing about Orton not getting the ball down the field. Didn't they say last night that up until the final minutes of the game Brady didn't have any completions over 20 yards, and he had at that time like 39 completions.

tsiguy96
09-15-2009, 11:09 PM
viclombardi: after reviewing tape, orton not as bad as he thought.

weve heard that like 3 times this year, as soon as he gets a bit more help from the team people will stop whining so much.

DBroncos4life
09-15-2009, 11:30 PM
I never said He changed the game He was there because He is a Belichick fan.

Well if humans can make it from Cincinnati to Boston in a day I don't think god will have much trouble doing the same :)

broncocalijohn
09-15-2009, 11:35 PM
I don't know why people keep on this thing about Orton not getting the ball down the field. Didn't they say last night that up until the final minutes of the game Brady didn't have any completions over 20 yards, and he had at that time like 39 completions.

yes, but we know what Brady brings to the pats offense. We havent seen anything much from Orton and this offense. We love the defense and the win on Sunday but what week do we start complaining (more out loud) if this offense continues to struggle?

BroncoBuff
09-15-2009, 11:38 PM
I don't know why people keep on this thing about Orton not getting the ball down the field. Didn't they say last night that up until the final minutes of the game Brady didn't have any completions over 20 yards, and he had at that time like 39 completions.

Yes, but he SCORED TOUCHDOWNS. I don't think this has much to do with the Cincinnati game or the Bengals team ... Kyle was the same in Cincy as he's been all preseason: timid and physically limited. He has no fire.

Here's an interesting stat, I've stated it before, but it merits repeating:

In 12+ quarters - with the offensive starters - Stokley's "Immaculate Deflection" was just the second TD Orton has generated.

Two touchdowns in 12+ quarters. With the starters. That's unacceptable. No excuses, that is unacceptable.

DBroncos4life
09-15-2009, 11:38 PM
yes, but we know what Brady brings to the pats offense. We havent seen anything much from Orton and this offense. We love the defense and the win on Sunday but what week do we start complaining (more out loud) if this offense continues to struggle?

If you took away the yards, the super bowl rings, MVP awards, the wins, the records Brady has, and the really really hot wife you pretty much have Kyle Orton.

Rock Chalk
09-15-2009, 11:39 PM
yes, but we know what Brady brings to the pats offense. We havent seen anything much from Orton and this offense. We love the defense and the win on Sunday but what week do we start complaining (more out loud) if this offense continues to struggle?

Id say around week 5. If we continue to see the same stuff in Week 5 then, I'd say its time to panic.

But not after week 1. Considering that Marshall has been in absentia most of TC and preseason so timing isnt there, and Gaffney has been injured, and the "so-called" complex scheme with a new QB and an injured finger, there are plenty of reasons to understand WHY the team struggled offensively in week 1.

These reasons won't last long so if the offense doesn't improve then we can all be upset but not now.

cutthemdown
09-15-2009, 11:46 PM
All I can say is take the season in 4 game chunks before you go avg things out. Let's play 4 games and see what happens.

Your Broncos are learning a new system and aren't as talented as some of the other teams. The coach has a lot of experience calling plays so i'm not worried too much about that.

Orton is hurt, was asked to not turn ball over, did a good job.

If by week 4-5 Orton hasn't got offense moving then maybe I would start a whats wrong with Orton thread.

It would be just as foolish to come out after one good game by Orton and say man he is good isn't he.

You have to watch some football first and see what happens.

I admire your self control though. You waited until Orton had played 4 whole quarters for the Broncos before making a thread about him. You are a pillar of patience and self control my friend.

listopencil
09-15-2009, 11:49 PM
No a player made a foolish play. While taking that kick out of the EZ was bad him trying to fight for a extra yard was flat out retarded. Players make mistakes. Our play was the longest ever game winning TD in NFL history, that is gods work.


...and you guys think Plorton doesn't have an arm. He's a long ball specialist.

DBroncos4life
09-15-2009, 11:49 PM
All I can say is take the season in 4 game chunks before you go avg things out. Let's play 4 games and see what happens.

Your Broncos are learning a new system and aren't as talented as some of the other teams. The coach has a lot of experience calling plays so i'm not worried too much about that.

Orton is hurt, was asked to not turn ball over, did a good job.

If by week 4-5 Orton hasn't got offense moving then maybe I would start a whats wrong with Orton thread.

It would be just as foolish to come out after one good game by Orton and say man he is good isn't he.

You have to watch some football first and see what happens.

I admire your self control though. You waited until Orton had played 4 whole quarters for the Broncos before making a thread about him. You are a pillar of patience and self control my friend.
Hell yeah we don't need any Orton threads pushing down any of the Cutler threads or the Bears meltdown threads.

DBroncos4life
09-15-2009, 11:54 PM
...and you guys think Plorton doesn't have an arm. He's a long ball specialist.

It was one of his better 30 throws.

fontaine
09-16-2009, 02:34 AM
Orton should get the benefit for 6/7 games to see what he can fully do. I understand and appreciate that he's learning the system and so on. But one thing that is not and cannot be in doubt is the fact that this is offense is QB heaven. You've got big, physical TEs that can catch the ball, a tall imposing WR who can bring the ball down in traffic and two guys perfect for the short ball in Stockley/Royal, plus a long ball specialist in Gaffney.

Combine that with a pretty good line and working running game then Orton is spoiled really. So by game 6 or 7 if he's still taking unnecessary sacks, showing piss poor pocket presence and zero accuracy then he's simply not capable of getting better.

BroncoInSkinland
09-16-2009, 10:15 AM
All I can say is take the season in 4 game chunks before you go avg things out. Let's play 4 games and see what happens.

I tend to agree, am happy with the win, am very happy with the defensive turnaround (thus far at least), and am happy with special teams. But to play Devils advocate...

Shanahan gets fired, people scream, others scream wait and see what happens. McDanels is hired, people scream, others scream wait and see what happens. The Goodmans get fired, Cutlergate begins, Xanders turns into a figure head, Cutler gets traded, we trade our first round pick, we don't draft d-line heavy, we lose three in preseason. Still some people scream and others scream wait and see what happens. It is now the time where we are seeing what has happened. some people are not happy with it....me I'll take W's however they come...

TailgateNut
09-16-2009, 10:20 AM
I tend to agree, am happy with the win, am very happy with the defensive turnaround (thus far at least), and am happy with special teams. But to play Devils advocate...

Shanahan gets fired, people scream, others scream wait and see what happens. McDanels is hired, people scream, others scream wait and see what happens. The Goodmans get fired, Cutlergate begins, Xanders turns into a figure head, Cutler gets traded, we trade our first round pick, we don't draft d-line heavy, we lose three in preseason. Still some people scream and others scream wait and see what happens. It is now the time where we are seeing what has happened. some people are not happy with it....me I'll take W's however they come...

No doubt. There are still a few pansies here who would have preferred a loss to allow them to thump their chests and declare the season a loss, the McDaniels "experiment" a failure and the Cutler desertion a disaster.
In addition their chest thumping got another kick in the pants by their HERO on sunday night.:thumbsup:

Eldorado
09-16-2009, 10:24 AM
:shytstain:

Popcorn Sutton
09-16-2009, 10:24 AM
I hate to draw comparisons but didn't it take a while for New England's offense to kick in last year with Cassel?

Popcorn Sutton
09-16-2009, 10:26 AM
All I can say is take the season in 4 game chunks before you go avg things out. Let's play 4 games and see what happens.


You make too much sense.

DrFate
09-16-2009, 10:27 AM
If you took away the yards, the super bowl rings, MVP awards, the wins, the records Brady has, and the really really hot wife you pretty much have Kyle Orton.

Don't forget the hot ex, the mother of his first kid

Popcorn Sutton
09-16-2009, 10:31 AM
Yes, but he SCORED TOUCHDOWNS. I don't think this has much to do with the Cincinnati game or the Bengals team ... Kyle was the same in Cincy as he's been all preseason: timid and physically limited. He has no fire.

Here's an interesting stat, I've stated it before, but it merits repeating:

In 12+ quarters - with the offensive starters - Stokley's "Immaculate Deflection" was just the second TD Orton has generated.

Two touchdowns in 12+ quarters. With the starters. That's unacceptable. No excuses, that is unacceptable.

Hey Buff, just yesterday you said you want to see the defense in a few more regular season games before you form your opinion. The Broncos defense looked pretty good most of the pre-season so you could technically form an opinion about the defense based on well over 12 quarters of the starters being on the field. However, you choose not to because you want to see them perform in a few regular season games. This makes perfect sense to me. Maybe you could show some restraint with Orton? ??? You formed your opinion on him before he landed in Denver.

BroncoInSkinland
09-16-2009, 10:34 AM
No doubt. There are still a few pansies here who would have preferred a loss to allow them to thump their chests and declare the season a loss, the McDaniels "experiment" a failure and the Cutler desertion a disaster.
In addition their chest thumping got another kick in the pants by their HERO on sunday night.:thumbsup:

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive...I am happy with the Win as I said, but McDaniels gets very little credit from me on this one...McDaniels gets a + for the team not giving up during a very tough game, but he gets -'s for QB performance, offensive output in general, revised running scheme that was less than effective, bland playcalling, and poor (almost nonexistant) halftime adjustments. Now a W will always buy time from me, but it is just buying time, the hand of God knocking the ball into Stokelys arm doesn't get McDaniels any slack in the long term.


Edit - Oh but Cutler looking like a moron did put a smile on my face. I still think he is a good QB, but man did he **** the bed and I loved every minute of it.

Quoydogs
09-16-2009, 11:09 AM
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive...I am happy with the Win as I said, but McDaniels gets very little credit from me on this one...McDaniels gets a + for the team not giving up during a very tough game, but he gets -'s for QB performance, offensive output in general, revised running scheme that was less than effective, bland playcalling, and poor (almost nonexistant) halftime adjustments. Now a W will always buy time from me, but it is just buying time, the hand of God knocking the ball into Stokelys arm doesn't get McDaniels any slack in the long term.


Edit - Oh but Cutler looking like a moron did put a smile on my face. I still think he is a good QB, but man did he **** the bed and I loved every minute of it.

I agree on this. Why am I turned into a Denver hater just because I think out QB is below average?

He did nothing with the bears
He did nothing in preseason
He did nothing the first game
SO I think I should have the right to question his ability to play the game. Still love Denver, still love the W Still don't think Orton has what it takes.