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vanbrugh
09-15-2009, 03:53 AM
I know it's been done a thousand times on every single message board but i found this article today and thought it brought a very valid case that back's up many people's opinions on the overated media superhero!

Enjoy

http://www.docsports.com/2009/jay-cutler-bust-065.html

rastaman
09-15-2009, 04:12 AM
I know it's been done a thousand times on every single message board but i found this article today and thought it brought a very valid case that back's up many people's opinions on the overated media superhero!

Enjoy

http://www.docsports.com/2009/jay-cutler-bust-065.html

Yawn-Yawn......panic when Cutler is in his 30's making the same mistakes. These are all mistakes of a qtr back that had only started 32 games. What we are witnessing are the growing pains of a young QB.

Tell the writer that Steve Young sucked early in his career as well. Steve Young is also a HOF QB.

Put Cutler in a Bill Walsh system or a Belichick system and we are all singing a different tune. Hell in the SB two years ago, Tom Brady looked like a mere mortal when his OL didn't give him time to throw b/c the NYG pass rush was relentless.

Point is, QB's are successful b/c of the sytem and talent they play in....plain and simple. Lets see how Cutler performs once he and his receivers get comfortable and have some years playing together. Lets see how Cutler performs once the Bears tweak their OL. Hell lets see how Cutler performs should he and Shanny reunite in Chi-town, should Lovee get Fired.

Cutler's future is nothing but up and he has yet to reach his full talent potential.

chadta
09-15-2009, 04:59 AM
or without star players around him he could be the next jeff george

rastaman
09-15-2009, 05:12 AM
or without star players around him he could be the next jeff george

Any QB w/o the proper system to take advantage of their talent or the QB's don't have the necessary talent around them.....they won't be successful.

One only needs to look at incubator QB environment Troy Aikman enjoyed while in Dallas. Troy was surrounded by talent on the OL, TE, WR, RB as well with a Defense that gave him great field position. Joe Montana was a another QB who qualifies for incubator status as well.

jmz313
09-15-2009, 05:20 AM
.

Cutler's future is nothing but up and he has yet to reach his full talent potential.

Truth. He needs a coach to get through to him. make him get it. then he will be a super star.

NYBronc
09-15-2009, 05:23 AM
any qb except elway w/o the proper system to take advantage of their talent or the qb's don't have the necessary talent around them.....they won't be successful.

One only needs to look at incubator qb environment troy aikman enjoyed while in dallas. Troy was surrounded by talent on the ol, te, wr, rb as well with a defense that gave him great field position. Joe montana was a another qb who qualifies for incubator status as well.

fyp

UberBroncoMan
09-15-2009, 05:25 AM
Any QB w/o the proper system to take advantage of their talent or the QB's don't have the necessary talent around them.....they won't be successful.

One only needs to look at incubator QB environment Troy Aikman enjoyed while in Dallas. Troy was surrounded by talent on the OL, TE, WR, RB as well with a Defense that gave him great field position. Joe Montana was a another QB who qualifies for incubator status as well.

Montana did good in Kansas City though and on the tail end of his career no less.

HorseHead
09-15-2009, 05:36 AM
You can have all the talent in the world surrounding you, you can have the greatest arm since(fill in the blank...)...

But if you have a 10 cent head, you won't go far...yeah, yeah, I know his Wonderlic score, he's still a bigger douch- than Kanye..

errand
09-15-2009, 05:47 AM
These are all mistakes of a qtr back that had only started 32 games. What we are witnessing are the growing pains of a young QB.

Put Cutler in a Bill Walsh system or a Belichick system and we are all singing a different tune.

.

..and yet we have people on here bitching about our current QB's mistkes despite starting only 34 games himself. As for Jay being in a Belichick system...what system do you think he just ran away from in Denver?

barryr
09-15-2009, 06:27 AM
Great point. If Cutler is given the excuse for lack of starts, well, Orton hasn't exactly started a 100 games himself. But I have yet to see Orton afforded such an excuse.

bowtown
09-15-2009, 06:32 AM
Yawn-Yawn......panic when Cutler is in his 30's making the same mistakes. These are all mistakes of a qtr back that had only started 32 games. What we are witnessing are the growing pains of a young QB.



You give him a pass on his mistakes until he is in his 30's?

TailgateNut
09-15-2009, 06:41 AM
I know it's been done a thousand times on every single message board but i found this article today and thought it brought a very valid case that back's up many people's opinions on the overated media superhero!

Enjoy

http://www.docsports.com/2009/jay-cutler-bust-065.html

"Through the first 37 games of his career Cutler has already committed a whopping 61 turnovers (37 interceptions, 24 fumbles) compared to just 57 touchdowns while posting a record of 17-20. By comparison, in 36 games in his career Rex Grossman has committed 54 turnovers (35 interceptions, 19 fumbles). When you are even more of a turnover dispenser than The Sex Cannon you are in serious trouble."


BUT HE"S A 25YO PRO-BOWLER. (I don't care how good he BOWLS, he's supposed to be good at tossin the rock.):spit:

TailgateNut
09-15-2009, 06:46 AM
You can have all the talent in the world surrounding you, you can have the greatest arm since(fill in the blank...)...

But if you have a 10 cent head, you won't go far...yeah, yeah, I know his Wonderlic score, he's still a bigger douch- than Kanye..

I'd say they are in the same boat, and 10 cents is 6 cents to much.

bfoflcommish
09-15-2009, 07:41 AM
Any QB w/o the proper system to take advantage of their talent or the QB's don't have the necessary talent around them.....they won't be successful.
One only needs to look at incubator QB environment Troy Aikman enjoyed while in Dallas. Troy was surrounded by talent on the OL, TE, WR, RB as well with a Defense that gave him great field position. Joe Montana was a another QB who qualifies for incubator status as well.

because Elway under reeves with the likes of Winder and Vance prove your point right?

rastaman
09-15-2009, 07:47 AM
..and yet we have people on here b****ing about our current QB's mistkes despite starting only 34 games himself. As for Jay being in a Belichick system...what system do you think he just ran away from in Denver?

McDaniel's doesn't = Belichick! Hopefully one day you'll realize this.

TailgateNut
09-15-2009, 07:52 AM
McDaniel's doesn't = Belichick! Hopefully one day you'll realize this.

We hope he isn't. Nobody like a cheater.;D

Dedhed
09-15-2009, 07:57 AM
Great point. If Cutler is given the excuse for lack of starts, well, Orton hasn't exactly started a 100 games himself. But I have yet to see Orton afforded such an excuse.

Not to mention that Orton is very new to the system he's playing in, and all of the stats mentioned in that article regarding Cutler were from the system that's been run by the Mastermind.

For those thinking that it will just take a coach to get through to him, um didn't we see how he reacts to a coach who actually wants to coach him instead of coddle his ego like Shanahan did.

Cutler can't take it. He doesn't have the makeup of a guy who's going to take to coaching. He's got a stronger arm than Elway, in his mind, and that's all he needs. Smirk.

Inkana7
09-15-2009, 07:57 AM
"When you are even more of a turnover dispenser than The Sex Cannon you are in serious trouble."

Hah!

Dedhed
09-15-2009, 07:58 AM
Any QB w/o the proper system to take advantage of their talent or the QB's don't have the necessary talent around them.....they won't be successful.

Cutler had every one of those things in Denver, and wasn't successful.

colonelbeef
09-15-2009, 08:02 AM
Yawn-Yawn......panic when Cutler is in his 30's making the same mistakes. These are all mistakes of a qtr back that had only started 32 games. What we are witnessing are the growing pains of a young QB.

Tell the writer that Steve Young sucked early in his career as well. Steve Young is also a HOF QB.

Put Cutler in a Bill Walsh system or a Belichick system and we are all singing a different tune. Hell in the SB two years ago, Tom Brady looked like a mere mortal when his OL didn't give him time to throw b/c the NYG pass rush was relentless.

Point is, QB's are successful b/c of the sytem and talent they play in....plain and simple. Lets see how Cutler performs once he and his receivers get comfortable and have some years playing together. Lets see how Cutler performs once the Bears tweak their OL. Hell lets see how Cutler performs should he and Shanny reunite in Chi-town, should Lovee get Fired.

Cutler's future is nothing but up and he has yet to reach his full talent potential.

Steve Young, Brett Favre, Peyton Manning, on and on. He will be considered a superstar by the end of this season as he begins to gel with his WRs, and still only 26 years old.

tsiguy96
09-15-2009, 08:19 AM
Steve Young, Brett Favre, Peyton Manning, on and on. He will be considered a superstar by the end of this season as he begins to gel with his WRs, and still only 26 years old.

cool, go cheer him on!

meanwhile, everyone here wants a high draft pick, thus we want him to fail and miserably.

Inkana7
09-15-2009, 08:27 AM
cool, go cheer him on!

meanwhile, everyone here wants a high draft pick, thus we want him to fail and miserably.

Well, I want him to fail because he's a douche. But a high draft pick would be nice.

rastaman
09-15-2009, 08:28 AM
You give him a pass on his mistakes until he is in his 30's?

No I'm not saying he gets a pass. Btwn 25-30 he should be making progress with cutting down his interception or so the pundits say. If a QB is in his 30's and still throwing INT at the rate he was in his 20's then you got problems.

Rock Chalk
09-15-2009, 08:30 AM
Ive been telling you people that Cutler isn't a franchise QB since the day we drafted him.

Just remember that.

When he is a backup QB in 3 years.

Inkana7
09-15-2009, 08:36 AM
No I'm not saying he gets a pass. Btwn 25-30 he should be making progress with cutting down his interception or so the pundits say. If a QB is in his 30's and still throwing INT at the rate he was in his 20's then you got problems.

Turnover prone QBs will always be turnover prone QBs. Name one QB who has actually changed that? Outside of Manning's rookie year, I can't think of any.

TonyR
09-15-2009, 08:36 AM
Steve Young, Brett Favre, Peyton Manning, on and on. He will be considered a superstar by the end of this season as he begins to gel with his WRs, and still only 26 years old.

"Superstar"? Really? I don't know, I don't see it. But you keep hoping!

TailgateNut
09-15-2009, 08:52 AM
Steve Young, Brett Favre, Peyton Manning, on and on. He will be considered a superstar by the end of this season as he begins to gel with his WRs, and still only 26 years old.


:rofl:

lex
09-15-2009, 08:57 AM
"Superstar"? Really? I don't know, I don't see it. But you keep hoping!

What makes his post more hopeful than yours?

Mr. Elway
09-15-2009, 09:03 AM
Point is, QB's are successful b/c of the sytem and talent they play in....plain and simple. Lets see how Cutler performs once he and his receivers get comfortable and have some years playing together.

A reasonable take. I assume you will also judge the Broncos new regime with the same patience - perhaps even more leniently so, since that's the team you support.

tsiguy96
09-15-2009, 09:06 AM
A reasonable take. I assume you will also judge the Broncos new regime with the same patience - perhaps even more leniently so, since that's the team you support.

LOLHilarious!LOLHilarious!:approve:

have you seen his posts lately?

chex
09-15-2009, 09:09 AM
He will be considered a superstar by the end of this season

Huh? If I had a nickel for every time I heard someone refer to him as a franchise QB, it would pay this month’s mortgage. So how is he a supposed franchise QB, but not yet a superstar?

Mr. Elway
09-15-2009, 09:11 AM
LOLHilarious!LOLHilarious!:approve:

have you seen his posts lately?

Yes and I stopped getting annoyed when I realized he is probably a pretty young and confused kid.

I just thought I would gently make my point and perhaps provide some guidance in how to think critically. ;)

TonyR
09-15-2009, 09:17 AM
What makes his post more hopeful than yours?

Hmm, let me think...

He's been a loser since college. He turns the ball over too much. He doesn't display solid game management or leadership skills. He doesn't carry himself well. He now plays on a team with less overall offensive talent than the one he played for the last couple of years. His team just lost its defensive leader. The fans in Chicago are already wary of him. He started this year 0-1 and 0-2 is very likely. It takes a LOT of success to become a "superstar".

I like my chances.

Popps
09-15-2009, 09:22 AM
What makes his post more hopeful than yours?

One is based on facts: Cutler has shown no signs of being a "superstar."

One is based on hope: "Jay will (I hope) become a superstar."


Losing record... middle of the road QB rating... regular failures in big games and is off to a ****ty start with his new team.


He is nothing resembling a Superstar. So, to assume that he will remain similar to what he has been for several years is an assumption rooted in facts and logic. Claiming he'll magically turn into a "superstar" is just some guy on a message board holding his breath and clicking his heels.

kamakazi_kal
09-15-2009, 09:25 AM
man, I really thought this would all end with the start of the season.

broncofan7
09-15-2009, 09:28 AM
Hmm, let me think...

He's been a loser since college. He turns the ball over too much. He doesn't display solid game management or leadership skills. He doesn't carry himself well. He now plays on a team with less overall talent than the one he played for the last couple of years. His team just lost its defensive leader. The fans in Chicago are already wary of him. He started this year 0-1 and 0-2 is very likely. It takes a LOT of success to become a "superstar".

I like my chances.

He will lead Chicago OVER PIT this week------even though I want him to LOSE. 0-16 is my rooting interest--my betting instincts tell me he leads them over the Steelahs..........

kamakazi_kal
09-15-2009, 09:32 AM
I know I'll be called a widow and all but I would still rather have him then Orton. I understand Orton "just wins games" but, we won't get that lucky every week. I feel like we won in spite of him not because of him.

broncofan7
09-15-2009, 09:34 AM
I know I'll be called a widow and all but I would still rather have him then Orton. I understand Orton "just wins games" but, we won't get that lucky every week. I feel like we won in spite of him not because of him.

We'd be better off with Simms for sure.....We have seen it in both the pre-season and now week 1 of the regular season...Orton is worse than a game manager--he is a liability out there.......that sack was like a turnover........

lex
09-15-2009, 09:37 AM
One is based on facts: Cutler has shown no signs of being a "superstar."

One is based on hope: "Jay will (I hope) become a superstar."


Losing record... middle of the road QB rating... regular failures in big games and is off to a ****ty start with his new team.


He is nothing resembling a Superstar. So, to assume that he will remain similar to what he has been for several years is an assumption rooted in facts and logic. Claiming he'll magically turn into a "superstar" is just some guy on a message board holding his breath and clicking his heels.

Jay has the top selling jersey. He's a pro bowler. He has statistical credentials. And he is now playing in the 3rd largest city in the US. Like it or not, he already is a superstar. The guy was actually being conservative in saying he will become one.

TonyR
09-15-2009, 09:41 AM
Like it or not, he already is a superstar.

You're being far too liberal with the word "superstar". There are very few in the NFL and Jay Cutler certainly isn't one of them.

rastaman
09-15-2009, 09:42 AM
Well, I want him to fail because he's a douche. But a high draft pick would be nice.

Bowlen is rumored not to want to pay "High" draft pick salaries anymore. And the Draft is not an exact science---its a crap shoot. High draft picks flame out, seldom turn all pro or have an impact on your team.

Ayers and Moreno are high draft picks in the first round. Either immediately or in two years both these picks had better be pro bowlers or pro bowl bound or the draft pick was a waste.

rastaman
09-15-2009, 09:52 AM
A reasonable take. I assume you will also judge the Broncos new regime with the same patience - perhaps even more leniently so, since that's the team you support.

Ive supported and have been a Bronco fan since 1977. I'm at the point now not to blindly support another rebuilding project w/o reservation and cynicism and self doubt. You rebuild when you have acquired a Franchise-Pro Bowler QB leading the way and this gives fans the hope and optimism. Right now Bowlen and McD haven't shown they can be successfull with their rebuilding project b/c of the big hole they have dug for themselves.

Now we just need to let time take its course.

lex
09-15-2009, 09:58 AM
You're being far too liberal with the word "superstar". There are very few in the NFL and Jay Cutler certainly isn't one of them.


Now, youre resorting to feable posturing like you always do. I just listed a combination of 4 reasons for why he can be called a superstar.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9RZ-hYPAMFQ&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9RZ-hYPAMFQ&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Youre the black knight.

Gort
09-15-2009, 09:59 AM
Ive supported and have been a Bronco fan since 1977. I'm at the point now not to blindly support another rebuilding project w/o reservation and cynicism and self doubt. You rebuild when you have acquired a Franchise-Pro Bowler QB leading the way and this gives fans the hope and optimism. Right now Bowlen and McD haven't shown they can be successfull with their rebuilding project b/c of the big hole they have dug for themselves.

Now we just need to let time take its course.

i call bull****.

i started following the Broncos in 1977. that was a magical season. i was 10.

one thing every longtime Broncos fan has in common is a rooting interest in the team. i don't really care who the players are. they come and they go.

you are fixated on a couple of players. no way you've been a Broncos fan for 30+ years. maybe you were an Elway fan or a Morton fan or some other player who played for the team over the years, but your steadfast refusal to admit that you are wrong about Cutler just shows to me that you're a fan of players, not of teams.

i'd bet when Orton's ball was caught sunday by Stokley, you were cursing your TV set. cursing McD. cursing Orton. and probably cursing Stokley because it was Marshall's ball to catch.

in contrast, Broncos fans were smiling ear to ear.

rastaman
09-15-2009, 10:00 AM
One is based on facts: Cutler has shown no signs of being a "superstar."

One is based on hope: "Jay will (I hope) become a superstar."


Losing record... middle of the road QB rating... regular failures in big games and is off to a ****ty start with his new team.


He is nothing resembling a Superstar. So, to assume that he will remain similar to what he has been for several years is an assumption rooted in facts and logic. Claiming he'll magically turn into a "superstar" is just some guy on a message board holding his breath and clicking his heels.

Popps take off your Orange tinted myopic lens and biased homer opinions of dislike for Jay for just a minute. You can't assume that a QB starting his 3rd year as a starter and 26 years old and having a pro bowl will not continue to improve and not correct his mistakes. Cutler is not a Ryan Leaf nor a Jeff George. Although the Cutler hating fans are hoping he is, hoping doesn't make it true.

DenverBrit
09-15-2009, 10:03 AM
Now, youre resorting to feable posturing like you always do. I just listed a combination of 4 reasons for why he can be called a superstar.

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Youre the black knight.


LOL The irony. Lex, you're the epitome of the 'Black Knight.'

All bluster and still declaring yourself the winner after being beaten into the ground. Hilarious!

TailgateNut
09-15-2009, 10:05 AM
Popps take off your Orange tinted myopic lens and biased homer opinions of dislike for Jay for just a minute. You can't assume that a QB starting his 3rd year as a starter and 26 years old and having a pro bowl will not continue to improve and not correct his mistakes. Cutler is not a Ryan Leaf nor a Jeff George. Although the Cutler hating fans are hoping he is, hoping doesn't make it true.

Yes, WE CAN ASSUME.


"having a pro bowl"........and what did that do for us?.......Squat!
I may agree with the fact that he'll put up stats, but some of those stats wont be appreciated by the Chicago faithful. The Red Zone=Jay Cutlers' Waterloo.:wiggle:

chex
09-15-2009, 10:09 AM
i'd bet when Orton's ball was caught sunday by Stokley, you were cursing your TV set. cursing McD. cursing Orton. and probably cursing Stokley because it was Marshall's ball to catch.



Actually, I'd wager quite a few others on here did the same. I'd also wager alot of fingers poised to hit the 'submit thread' button wound up hitting 'delete' instead.

We know who they are, no need to name names.

Br0nc0Buster
09-15-2009, 10:10 AM
Popps take off your Orange tinted myopic lens and biased homer opinions of dislike for Jay for just a minute. You can't assume that a QB starting his 3rd year as a starter and 26 years old and having a pro bowl will not continue to improve and not correct his mistakes. Cutler is not a Ryan Leaf nor a Jeff George. Although the Cutler hating fans are hoping he is, hoping doesn't make it true.

Shanahan got Plummer and Griese to the probowl, well Plummer was an alternate I think
But they both did it in their 3rd year under Shanny I think
Cutler goes in his 3rd year under Shanny

He could very well improve, but not having Shanny is prolly going to at least temporarily stunt his development

You saw the game, he was all over the place, it is naive to just assume his progression will be as smooth under Ron Turner as it was with Shanny

TonyR
09-15-2009, 10:14 AM
LOL The irony. Lex, you're the epitome of the 'Black Knight.'

All bluster and still declaring yourself the winner after being beaten into the ground. Hilarious!

The saddest/funniest thing is he actually thinks he "wins" some of these arguments in which he clearly gets clobbered. "I'M RIGHT BECAUSE, WELL, BECAUSE I'M RIGHT!"

"JAY CUTLER IS A SUPERSTAR BECAUSE I SAY SO!!!" -lex

scorpio
09-15-2009, 10:15 AM
Chicago mortgaged their draft future for Cutler and the hope that they can win "now". Looks like it might not happen that way.

It will be interesting to see if they can restock the WR cupboard to help out their QB and still keep the defense respectable.

BroncoMan4ever
09-15-2009, 10:17 AM
Any QB w/o the proper system to take advantage of their talent or the QB's don't have the necessary talent around them.....they won't be successful.

One only needs to look at incubator QB environment Troy Aikman enjoyed while in Dallas. Troy was surrounded by talent on the OL, TE, WR, RB as well with a Defense that gave him great field position. Joe Montana was a another QB who qualifies for incubator status as well.

Elway didn't have **** around him for the better part of his career. he had help on defense, but offensively he was a 1 man offense. and he carried the team to 3 super bowls on his back. granted he didn't win the big game until he got some help, but he was able to lead the team to winning seasons, playoffs and the super bowls with no help

Cutler isn't capable of that.

lex
09-15-2009, 10:17 AM
LOL The irony. Lex, you're the epitome of the 'Black Knight.'

All bluster and still declaring yourself the winner after being beaten into the ground. Hilarious!


Dude, get your **** right when correcting me and then maybe you can chime in on stuff like this.

BroncoBuff
09-15-2009, 10:18 AM
Already three pages on a QB from another team .... you guys do realize you're obsessed, right?

Here's the test for Jay-Obsession: Search your posts for the last month: If you find more mentions of the term "Cutler" that "Orton," that means you're obsessed with Jay. Best example, Popps: Orton=59 Cutler=221. Numbers don't lie.

It's fine to be obsessed with Jay, just don't kid yourselves you don't care ;D

Mr. Elway
09-15-2009, 10:18 AM
Ive supported and have been a Bronco fan since 1977. I'm at the point now not to blindly support another rebuilding project w/o reservation and cynicism and self doubt. You rebuild when you have acquired a Franchise-Pro Bowler QB leading the way and this gives fans the hope and optimism. Right now Bowlen and McD haven't shown they can be successfull with their rebuilding project b/c of the big hole they have dug for themselves.

Now we just need to let time take its course.

I don't have a problem with the viewpoint you just laid out here, except that this rebuilding project has not yet had a chance to succeed. You want to give Jay every opportunity in the world to succeed in Chicago, but you are unwilling to give McDaniels time to build a winner. Why? You say Bowlen and McD have not shown they can succeed, but they have not shown they cannot either. Why does Cutler get years to prove his value, when McDaniels gets not even one year?

Your posts and lack of support for the current regime amount to much more than reservation and cynicism - they are acidic, combative, and in many cases just unreasonable.

I'm not going to debate this ad nauseum because I know how it will go. I'll just leave it with this: I think losing Cutler was a mistake too, but common sense and loyalty to the team tells me I'm not going to go cheer for the Bears quarterback and spend all my time criticizing the Broncos.

lex
09-15-2009, 10:20 AM
The saddest/funniest thing is he actually thinks he "wins" some of these arguments in which he clearly gets clobbered. "I'M RIGHT BECAUSE, WELL, BECAUSE I'M RIGHT!"

"JAY CUTLER IS A SUPERSTAR BECAUSE I SAY SO!!!" -lex

Again more silly posturing. I gave you 4 reasons why he could easily be called a superstar. Youre only argument is "because I say so". Guys like you and DenverTwit make it too easy.

rastaman
09-15-2009, 10:21 AM
i call bull****.

i started following the Broncos in 1977. that was a magical season. i was 10.

one thing every longtime Broncos fan has in common is a rooting interest in the team. i don't really care who the players are. they come and they go.

you are fixated on a couple of players. no way you've been a Broncos fan for 30+ years. maybe you were an Elway fan or a Morton fan or some other player who played for the team over the years, but your steadfast refusal to admit that you are wrong about Cutler just shows to me that you're a fan of players, not of teams.

i'd bet when Orton's ball was caught sunday by Stokley, you were cursing your TV set. cursing McD. cursing Orton. and probably cursing Stokley because it was Marshall's ball to catch.

in contrast, Broncos fans were smiling ear to ear.

I don't care what you call it! The fact that you can take hope from a fluke pass that could have fallen incomplete or end with an INT speaks volumes of your gullible fan base attitude. Your assumption of how long I've been a Bronco fan is laugable at best.....but hey, you can believe what you want! You probably weren't even born in 1977. No one knows how Cutler will turn out nor whether how much he will improve btwn 26-32 years old. I'm willing to sit back and wait and see.

Besides, watching Cutlers career progress will be alot more interesting than watching two mediocre QB's of Orton (who has reached his talent ceiling) or Simms who is too frail to stay injury free and complete an entire season.

Remember you have longtime Bronco fans who are mature enough to realize sometime the owner and HC must prove to the fans that they know what they're doing while still rooting for their teams. Now just b/c not every fan isn't a "Robotic-Rah-Rah Idiot Fan" such as you and your ilk......does not say the Broncos aren't their team, it just says we Root for our perspective teams differently.

As for as having following Elways career I have done just that. I believe Elway was the greatest QB of all time! I've even posted thread to justify why. But then again I don't expect you to understand. You are such a blind gullible fan you are incable of understanding! But hey thats btwn you and your DNA!!! Sorry you're on your own.

broncswin
09-15-2009, 10:27 AM
Yawn-Yawn......panic when Cutler is in his 30's making the same mistakes. These are all mistakes of a qtr back that had only started 32 games. What we are witnessing are the growing pains of a young QB.

Tell the writer that Steve Young sucked early in his career as well. Steve Young is also a HOF QB.

Put Cutler in a Bill Walsh system or a Belichick system and we are all singing a different tune. Hell in the SB two years ago, Tom Brady looked like a mere mortal when his OL didn't give him time to throw b/c the NYG pass rush was relentless.

Is this guy gonna always get the excuses to back him up, I mean come on unitl this guy can win, he should take his lumps like every other player.

Point is, QB's are successful b/c of the sytem and talent they play in....plain and simple. Lets see how Cutler performs once he and his receivers get comfortable and have some years playing together. Lets see how Cutler performs once the Bears tweak their OL. Hell lets see how Cutler performs should he and Shanny reunite in Chi-town, should Lovee get Fired.
Cutler's future is nothing but up and he has yet to reach his full talent potential.

That is up to him, you gotta have the mental capability to be a success and I just don't think he has it. The guy doesn't know how to win...say what you want about the system, but Elway carried teams on his f-ing back for many years...I don't see Cutler ever doing that!

DenverBrit
09-15-2009, 10:29 AM
Dude, get your **** right when correcting me and then maybe you can chime in on stuff like this.

Nothing but net, pompous little man. Keep the laughs coming. Ha!

BroncoBuff
09-15-2009, 10:31 AM
Again more silly posturing. I gave you 4 reasons why he could easily be called a superstar. Youre only argument is "because I say so". Guys like you and DenverTwit make it too easy.
The thing that really "makes it easy" is just look around the league: Jerry Angelo and many other pros, other GMs and coaches, wanted Jay very badly. They offered and gave up king's ransom for the guy.

And the majority of TRULY well-informed commentators still think we made a mistake. The CBS studio crew was unanimous we blew it, Dan Marino was actually quite critical of the deal.


Jay looked pretty bad the other night, but don't pretend that's the end of the story. Only those obsessed with Jay are impatient and shortsighted enough to claim "we were right" after just one game. You gotta let these things play out ... Jay looked pretty awful the other night, but remember Orton looks awful too so far.

Have patience, we'll know the score soon enough, give it some time.

Dagmar
09-15-2009, 10:33 AM
Already three pages on a QB from another team .... you guys do realize you're obsessed, right?

Here's the test for Jay-Obsession: Search your posts for the last month: If you find more mentions of the term "Cutler" that "Orton," that means you're obsessed with Jay. Best example, Popps: Orton=59 Cutler=221. Numbers don't lie.

It's fine to be obsessed with Jay, just don't kid yourselves you don't care ;D

Great and his boyfriend here to defend him. I am working on Saturday but shall leave a Chicago Cutler jersey near the stadium so you can bugger off to your new team.

DenverBrit
09-15-2009, 10:36 AM
Again more silly posturing. I gave you 4 reasons why he could easily be called a superstar. Youre only argument is "because I say so". Guys like you and DenverTwit make it too easy.

You gave 4 dumbass reasons.

Best selling jersey in the 3rd largest market makes him a superstar? Milli-Vanilli.

His stats? You really don't want to go there.

Pro bowl? He didn't belong....as he clearly demonstrated.

Well done, Black Knight! Ha!

DenverBrit
09-15-2009, 10:37 AM
The thing that really "makes it easy" is just look around the league: Jerry Angelo and many other pros, other GMs and coaches, wanted Jay very badly. They offered and gave up king's ransom for the guy.

And the majority of TRULY well-informed commentators still think we made a mistake. The CBS studio crew was unanimous we blew it, Dan Marino was actually quite critical of the deal.


Jay looked pretty bad the other night, but don't pretend that's the end of the story. Only those obsessed with Jay are impatient and shortsighted enough to claim "we were right" after just one game. You gotta let these things play out ... Jay looked pretty awful the other night, but remember Orton looks awful too so far.

Have patience, we'll know the score soon enough, give it some time.

You seem patient enough. ;D

rastaman
09-15-2009, 10:39 AM
I don't have a problem with the viewpoint you just laid out here, except that this rebuilding project has not yet had a chance to succeed. You want to give Jay every opportunity in the world to succeed in Chicago, but you are unwilling to give McDaniels time to build a winner. Why? You say Bowlen and McD have not shown they can succeed, but they have not shown they cannot either. Why does Cutler get years to prove his value, when McDaniels gets not even one year?

I hear where you're coming from and can respect your view here, however, where I'm coming from is a lack of trust, patients and optimism from McD at this stage. However, I was the first fan to say that McD will need at least 6 years guaranteed to turn things around. And yet the so called McD supporters said I was crazy! I'm just a realist. I doubt McD can get the job done in 3 years especially if he only has mediocre Qbs like Orton and Simms. Hell McD will need 6 years just to find and develop a Franchise QB to lead Denver to the promise land.

Your posts and lack of support for the current regime amount to much more than reservation and cynicism - they are acidic, combative, and in many cases just unreasonable.

Again, w/o a 6 year stint for McD, why shoulld I be confident he can get anything done in just 3 short years? I just don't see it. I have never been a follower of group think, or mob rule and this is the type behavior we see out of Bronco fans currently....sorry I disagree with that type of fanship.

I'm not going to debate this ad nauseum because I know how it will go. I'll just leave it with this: I think losing Cutler was a mistake too, but common sense and loyalty to the team tells me I'm not going to go cheer for the Bears quarterback and spend all my time criticizing the Broncos.

Fare enough. You just proved that not all fans think along your lines. Nothing wrong with that. But blind team loyalty and behaving in a pro-HC-Owner mentality doens't make you a better fan IMHO.....it just makes you a FANANTIC. You have sensible fans and you fanantical fans.....no reason we still can't be LIFE LONG BRONCO FANS. After all, wheres the diversity!

TonyR
09-15-2009, 10:39 AM
Again more silly posturing. I gave you 4 reasons why he could easily be called a superstar. Youre only argument is "because I say so". Guys like you and DenverTwit make it too easy.

Okay, since you're a glutton for punishment I'll debunk the silly "4 reasons" you're so sadly proud of:

"Jay has the top selling jersey" - This is because he's a QB who changed teams. The team he changed to is a large market desperate for a QB saviour. If his jersey continues to be a top seller we'll talk. This is the best of your reasons but far from enough.

"He's a pro bowler" - The Pro Bowl is a joke and a popularity contest. He barely deserved the honor if at all.

"He has statistical credentials" - Throwing for a lot of yards makes one a superstar? Win something! Superstars win!

"He is now playing in the 3rd largest city in the US" - This is the weakest of your weak reasons. Lots of guys play in the top 3 cities in the U.S. and very, very few of them are "superstars".

I'd say there are only two "superstar" QB's in the league: Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. The list comes to a screeching halt right there. Roethlisberger and Eli Manning are probably sniffing "superstar" status but they aren't quite there. Can you tell everyone, lex, what the four QB's I listed here have in common? Not a trick question, let's see if you can figure it out and then apply it to your own feeble argument.

Now don't come back here with any more of that weak stuff. Please.

TonyR
09-15-2009, 10:44 AM
...Jerry Angelo and many other pros, other GMs and coaches, wanted Jay very badly.

Can you provide a comprehensive list of the "many other pros, other GMs and coaches" who so very badly wanted Jay Cutler? I'm curious who you're referring to. I never noticed the line forming. And even if you're right, does this make him a "superstar"? The answer is a definitive and resounding NO.

lex
09-15-2009, 10:47 AM
You gave 4 dumbass reasons.

Best selling jersey in the 3rd largest market makes him a superstar? Milli-Vanilli.

His stats? You really don't want to go there.

Pro bowl? He didn't belong....as he clearly demonstrated.

Well done, Black Knight! Ha!


I knew youd be back to defend your "honor"...its a very black knight thing to do.

lex
09-15-2009, 10:54 AM
Okay, since you're a glutton for punishment I'll debunk the silly "4 reasons" you're so sadly proud of:

"Jay has the top selling jersey" - This is because he's a QB who changed teams. The team he changed to is a large market desperate for a QB saviour. If his jersey continues to be a top seller we'll talk. This is the best of your reasons but far from enough.

"He's a pro bowler" - The Pro Bowl is a joke and a popularity contest. He barely deserved the honor if at all.

"He has statistical credentials" - Throwing for a lot of yards makes one a superstar? Win something! Superstars win!

"He is now playing in the 3rd largest city in the US" - This is the weakest of your weak reasons. Lots of guys play in the top 3 cities in the U.S. and very, very few of them are "superstars".

I'd say there are only two "superstar" QB's in the league: Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. The list comes to a screeching halt right there. Roethlisberger and Eli Manning are probably sniffing "superstar" status but they aren't quite there. Can you tell everyone, lex, what the four QB's I listed here have in common? Not a trick question, let's see if you can figure it out and then apply it to your own feeble argument.

Now don't come back here with any more of that weak stuff. Please.

Superstar is a term used to refer to a celebrity who has great popular appeal and is widely-known, prominent or successful in some field. Celebrities referred to as "superstars" may include individuals who work as actors, actresses, musicians, athletes, and other professions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstar

su·per·star (spr-stär) KEY

NOUN:

A widely acclaimed star, as in movies or sports, who has great popular appeal.
One that is extremely popular or prominent or that is a major attraction.

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/superstar

Main Entry: su·per·star
Pronunciation: \ˈsü-pər-ˌstär\
Function: noun
Date: 1924
1 : a star (as in sports or the movies) who is considered extremely talented, has great public appeal, and can usually command a high salary
2 : one that is very prominent or is a prime attraction <a diplomatic superstar>

— su·per·star·dom \-dəm\ noun


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/superstar


What were you saying? Oh, thats right, Im using the word too liberally. Notice the freguent reference to popular appeal. That wouldnt tie into jersey sales in anyway, though. Wow, youre dumb. Again, you throw **** against the wall hoping it sticks.

Br0nc0Buster
09-15-2009, 10:54 AM
The thing that really "makes it easy" is just look around the league: Jerry Angelo and many other pros, other GMs and coaches, wanted Jay very badly. They offered and gave up king's ransom for the guy.

And the majority of TRULY well-informed commentators still think we made a mistake. The CBS studio crew was unanimous we blew it, Dan Marino was actually quite critical of the deal.


Jay looked pretty bad the other night, but don't pretend that's the end of the story. Only those obsessed with Jay are impatient and shortsighted enough to claim "we were right" after just one game. You gotta let these things play out ... Jay looked pretty awful the other night, but remember Orton looks awful too so far.

Have patience, we'll know the score soon enough, give it some time.

if you are gonna use Jerry Angelo, you should look at his track record
He has a poor record as far as evaluating offensive talent

His opinion is about as valuable as Matt Millen's on which receiver a team should draft

Williams
09-15-2009, 10:56 AM
"through the first 37 games of his career cutler has already committed a whopping 61 turnovers (37 interceptions, 24 fumbles) compared to just 57 touchdowns while posting a record of 17-20. By comparison, in 36 games in his career rex grossman has committed 54 turnovers (35 interceptions, 19 fumbles).

:rofl:

DenverBrit
09-15-2009, 10:56 AM
I knew youd be back to defend your "honor"...its a very black knight thing to do.


Wow!! The Black Knight metaphor sailed right over your little head. Ha!

Stick to bean counting. :juggle:

lex
09-15-2009, 11:01 AM
Wow!! The Black Knight metaphor sailed right over your little head. Ha!

Stick to bean counting. :juggle:

Meh.

jhns
09-15-2009, 11:01 AM
So, jay sucks huh? Is that why no one can get over him? Plus, are you really sure you want to talk crap? I mean, his suck is still going to do a lot more to help chicago win than orton will ever do for this team. Although, he may have to find an offensive coordinator to help some first. They called plays like they had a 10 year vet Manning with actual receivers.

TonyR
09-15-2009, 11:01 AM
What were you saying? Oh, thats right, Im using the word too liberally. Notice the freguent reference to popular appeal. That wouldnt tie into jersey sales in anyway, though. Wow, youre dumb. Again, you throw **** against the wall hoping it sticks.

Yep, he still thinks he won.

By your definition almost every QB in the league is a "superstar". Like I said before, and correctly, there are only 2 "superstar" QB's in the league, and two on the doorstep. Have you figured out yet what they have in common?

Gort
09-15-2009, 11:04 AM
I don't care what you call it! The fact that you can take hope from a fluke pass that could have fallen incomplete or end with an INT speaks volumes of your gullible fan base attitude. Your assumption of how long I've been a Bronco fan is laugable at best.....but hey, you can believe what you want! You probably weren't even born in 1977. No one knows how Cutler will turn out nor whether how much he will improve btwn 26-32 years old. I'm willing to sit back and wait and see.

Besides, watching Cutlers career progress will be alot more interesting than watching two mediocre QB's of Orton (who has reached his talent ceiling) or Simms who is too frail to stay injury free and complete an entire season.

Remember you have longtime Bronco fans who are mature enough to realize sometime the owner and HC must prove to the fans that they know what they're doing while still rooting for their teams. Now just b/c not every fan isn't a "Robotic-Rah-Rah Idiot Fan" such as you and your ilk......does not say the Broncos aren't their team, it just says we Root for our perspective teams differently.

As for as having following Elways career I have done just that. I believe Elway was the greatest QB of all time! I've even posted thread to justify why. But then again I don't expect you to understand. You are such a blind gullible fan you are incable of understanding! But hey thats btwn you and your DNA!!! Sorry you're on your own.

proves my point. you're not a Broncos fan. that's fine and all, but why spend time on a Broncos forum bashing the team, when you could go to a Bears forum and be among the other Cutler kool-aid drinkers?

...and i remember 1977 all too well. the Bee Gees. Three's Company. the Love Boat. Jimmy Carter (ugh!). Yankees/Dodgers WS with Reggie hitting 3 homers in 1 game (ugh!). Star Wars. Bell Bottoms. etc.

also, Elway couldn't carry Unitas' jock. that's a fact. i'm a Broncos fan, but even i know that Unitas was the best QB in the history of the NFL. i've never really been a fan of Elway. his 1983 draft demands still piss me off.

DenverBrit
09-15-2009, 11:12 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstar



http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/superstar



http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/superstar


What were you saying? Oh, thats right, Im using the word too liberally. Notice the freguent reference to popular appeal. That wouldnt tie into jersey sales in anyway, though. Wow, youre dumb. Again, you throw **** against the wall hoping it sticks.

Christ, talk about desperate.

All you've demonstrated is that Cutler is the new QB on a QB starved team in a major market.

You needed three dictionary definitions, saying the same thing to make a meaningless point??

Wins!!! That's what makes a QB a superstar, not Jersey sales or loser's stats.

Cutler may get there someday, but he's no superstar.

cutthemdown
09-15-2009, 11:13 AM
Any QB w/o the proper system to take advantage of their talent or the QB's don't have the necessary talent around them.....they won't be successful.

One only needs to look at incubator QB environment Troy Aikman enjoyed while in Dallas. Troy was surrounded by talent on the OL, TE, WR, RB as well with a Defense that gave him great field position. Joe Montana was a another QB who qualifies for incubator status as well.

Troy Aikmen was a smart QB though that by 3rd yr starting wasn't forcing the ball into coverage like Cutler does.

Cutler said when the whole trade fiasco started, quote "you don't see Brady, Rivers, Manning having to deal with trade talks."

That right there says he thinks he is at there level already. People like that rarely analyze there weakneses to get better. Instead they blame those around them. Sound familar?

If Cutler doesn't grow up and realize he has a lot to learn then he never will. IMO he thinks he is a great QB already without much to learn. Because of that he will never be what he could have been.

DenverBrit
09-15-2009, 11:14 AM
Yep, he still thinks he won.

By your definition almost every QB in the league is a "superstar". Like I said before, and correctly, there are only 2 "superstar" QB's in the league, and two on the doorstep. Have you figured out yet what they have in common?

The Black Knight doesn't understand the meaning of defeat, he's like a French historian. Ha!

lex
09-15-2009, 11:19 AM
Christ, talk about desperate.

All you've demonstrated is that Cutler is the new QB on a QB starved team in a major market.

You needed three dictionary definitions, saying the same thing to make a meaningless point??

Wins!!! That's what makes a QB a superstar, not Jersey sales or loser's stats.

Cutler may get there someday, but he's no superstar.

Sure it is black knight. Jersey sales wouldnt tie into mass appeal at all. You should really just stop.

lex
09-15-2009, 11:24 AM
Yep, he still thinks he won.

By your definition almost every QB in the league is a "superstar". Like I said before, and correctly, there are only 2 "superstar" QB's in the league, and two on the doorstep. Have you figured out yet what they have in common?

Wow, talk about desperate. That makes no sense. To suggest pointing out the guy who has the highest jersey sales can be called a superstar is somehow an argument that all QBs are superstars is just desperate and sad.

Maybe you should just step away and familiarize yourself with the terms you use going forward.

azbroncfan
09-15-2009, 11:24 AM
Already three pages on a QB from another team .... you guys do realize you're obsessed, right?

Here's the test for Jay-Obsession: Search your posts for the last month: If you find more mentions of the term "Cutler" that "Orton," that means you're obsessed with Jay. Best example, Popps: Orton=59 Cutler=221. Numbers don't lie.

It's fine to be obsessed with Jay, just don't kid yourselves you don't care ;D

How many times are you going to say this? Aren't you one of the biggest buttler's?

chex
09-15-2009, 11:30 AM
Sure it is black knight. Jersey sales wouldnt tie into mass appeal at all. You should really just stop.

I had no idea Michael Crabtree was a superstar. Clearly, jersey sales are a leading indicator of a player's success on the field, and a testament to their achievements.

TOP-SELLING NFL PLAYER JERSEYS
RK PLAYER RK PLAYER
1 Bears QB Jay Cutler
2 Steelers S Troy Polamalu
3 Steelers QB Ben Roethlisberger
4 Cowboys QB Tony Romo
5 Jets QB Mark Sanchez
6 Patriots QB Tom Brady
7 Bills WR Terrell Owens
8 49ers WR Michael Crabtree
9 Giants QB Eli Manning
10 Vikings RB Adrian Peterson
11 Steelers WR Hines Ward
12 Colts QB Peyton Manning
13 Chargers RB LaDainian Tomlinson
14 Cardinals WR Larry Fitzgerald
15 Cowboys TE Jason Witten
16 Falcons QB Matt Ryan
17 Ravens QB Joe Flacco
18 Cowboys RB Marion Barber
19 Bears LB Brian Urlacher
20 Bears WR Devin Hester
21 Cardinals QB Kurt Warner
22 Eagles RB Brian Westbrook
23 49ers LB Patrick Willis
24 Giants RB Brandon Jacobs
25 Chiefs QB Matt Cassel

rastaman
09-15-2009, 11:33 AM
Can you provide a comprehensive list of the "many other pros, other GMs and coaches" who so very badly wanted Jay Cutler? I'm curious who you're referring to. I never noticed the line forming. And even if you're right, does this make him a "superstar"? The answer is a definitive and resounding NO.

You don't see a line forming around the league supporting the decisions of Bowlen and McDaniel's over the off season either! ;)

Nor do I see Bear fans demanding the Broncos return Orton back to them!!:~ohyah!:

DenverBrit
09-15-2009, 11:33 AM
Sure it is black knight. Jersey sales wouldnt tie into mass appeal at all. You should really just stop.

Right, it's jersey sales, not wins/playoffs/Super Bowls that make a QB a superstar.

Keep it coming, you're comedy gold! Hilarious!

jhns
09-15-2009, 11:36 AM
The only thing that matters is that culter is far better than orton. As of now, cutler is far better than orton, ayers, half of quinn, and a first next year.

No matter how much you guys hope you are correct that he is horrible, these facts remain. No matter how you want to look at it, this team still screwed up and is going to be laughed at for years.

Oh well, who cares if we are horrible, right? At least we have shown that it is all about the team here. Guys like marshall have always been great team players. It isn't like he did far more to hurt the team than jay ever did, right? Oh wait..... Oh and who can forget all the character we have now with new guys like quinn beating on their women. Good to see we could get rid of the crybaby and show we are morally superior and team oriented....

DivineLegion
09-15-2009, 11:39 AM
Elway, all time clutch Quarterback...Jay Cutler, all time biggest flop at the end of the season. Blame the defense all you want but last time I checked that defense was still there for all 8 of our wins. Jay choked when it mattered most in November and December. There was only one thing that inconsistent as it got later in the season and that was the running game. I will give Jay credit in that games late in the season are usually won with a strong running game, but look at his production. He went from a record setting pace to falling flat on his face, HE CHOKED!!!

jhns
09-15-2009, 11:39 AM
Right, it's jersey sales, not wins/playoffs/Super Bowls that make a QB a superstar.

Keep it coming, you're comedy gold! Hilarious!

LOL

The whole "QBs should do everything on their own in this team game" argument is gold. It really shows the lack of understanding people have of this game.

jhns
09-15-2009, 11:44 AM
Elway, all time clutch Quarterback...Jay Cutler, all time biggest flop at the end of the season. Blame the defense all you want but last time I checked that defense was still there for all 8 of our wins. Jay choked when it mattered most in November and December. There was only one thing that inconsistent as it got later in the season and that was the running game. I will give Jay credit in that games late in the season are usually won with a strong running game, but look at his production. He went from a record setting pace to falling flat on his face, HE CHOKED!!!

Yeah, all QBs that can't keep up with 110 points in 3 games are chokers. Who cares that the majority of the starting defense, along with a good number of offensive players, where injured? That couldn't be why the TEAM got worse. I can see why you would expect a 3rd year guy, on an offense of rookie-third year players, to do it all on their own without mistakes. That is why you see units that young in the SB every year...... Riiiiight.

Williams
09-15-2009, 11:45 AM
Nor do I see Bear fans demanding the Broncos return Orton back to them!!:~ohyah!:

I guess you didnt bother checking out the Bear forums on Sunday. Some were calling for Orton or Grossman.

Not all Chicagoans are making excuses:

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/14/view-from-chicago-on-cutlers-debut/


Edit: Wow, they are destroying Cutler in the comments section. :spit:

DenverBrit
09-15-2009, 11:45 AM
LOL

The whole "QBs should do everything on their own in this team game" argument is gold. It really shows the lack of understanding people have of this game.

Not at all. No one is arguing that the QB must do everything.

But thinking that having the best selling Jersey and a losing record and awful stats means a QB is a Superstar......well that's just stupid.

But Lex is the epitome of the Black Knight metaphor........a connection he hasn't made yet, so he doesn't get the joke!

BroncoBuff
09-15-2009, 11:47 AM
Can you provide a comprehensive list of the "many other pros, other GMs and coaches" who so very badly wanted Jay Cutler? I'm curious who you're referring to. I never noticed the line forming.

Then your memory is not very good about how it went down. I respectfully suggest it's maybe selective amnesia to filter out what you don't want to remember? Tampa, Jets, Lions, Vikings, Bears, Redskins, Browns ... (although the Vikings reportedly rejected the idea at some point). That's a long list, considering half the teams in the league are already set at QB.

It seemed the Jets were especially eager, John Clayton and others reported they were scrambling to come up with a package for Jay, but just did not have the ammunition. It filtered down to which teams had the ammunition in the form of, a) 1st rounders, and b) a starting QB. Lions had the picks, but no starter. Bucs had the starter(s) but not the picks. Came down to Redskins (Campbell) and Bears (Orton), and Josh chose the Bears.

Personally I think the Jets did better with Sanchez, but I would hate to have Campbell, Stafford, Tarvaris ... Jay is at least better than those guys.

I don't see why you're so resistant, that is what happened. This doesn't mean Jay is good or bad, it just means lots of teams wanted him badly, and were willing to pay big to get him.


Even if you're right, does this make him a "superstar"? The answer is a definitive and resounding NO.

I'm not gonna argue ambiguous terms like "superstar," that's not relevant. Drek convinced me Jay is not in the Top 10 of quarterbacks right now, so Jay is not a superstar at least by that standard ???

Personally, I'm more and more down on Jay ... I'd rather have Rodgers, Ryan, maybe even Sanchez.

Rabb
09-15-2009, 11:47 AM
my God some of you make this place unbearable

Dedhed
09-15-2009, 11:49 AM
Again more silly posturing. I gave you 4 reasons why he could easily be called a superstar. Youre only argument is "because I say so". Guys like you and DenverTwit make it too easy.There is a VAST difference between being a superstar, and being considered one based on jersey sales and 3rd team all-star voting that only takes into account 1/2 a season.

Superstars win playoff games: period.

DenverBrit
09-15-2009, 11:50 AM
I had no idea Michael Crabtree was a superstar. Clearly, jersey sales are a leading indicator of a player's success on the field, and a testament to their achievements.

TOP-SELLING NFL PLAYER JERSEYS
RK PLAYER RK PLAYER
1 Bears QB Jay Cutler
2 Steelers S Troy Polamalu
3 Steelers QB Ben Roethlisberger
4 Cowboys QB Tony Romo
5 Jets QB Mark Sanchez
6 Patriots QB Tom Brady
7 Bills WR Terrell Owens
8 49ers WR Michael Crabtree
9 Giants QB Eli Manning
10 Vikings RB Adrian Peterson
11 Steelers WR Hines Ward
12 Colts QB Peyton Manning
13 Chargers RB LaDainian Tomlinson
14 Cardinals WR Larry Fitzgerald
15 Cowboys TE Jason Witten
16 Falcons QB Matt Ryan
17 Ravens QB Joe Flacco
18 Cowboys RB Marion Barber
19 Bears LB Brian Urlacher
20 Bears WR Devin Hester
21 Cardinals QB Kurt Warner
22 Eagles RB Brian Westbrook
23 49ers LB Patrick Willis
24 Giants RB Brandon Jacobs
25 Chiefs QB Matt Cassel

Let's not forget, that being first in Jersey sales means you're more of a Superstar than Manning, Brady, Big Ben, Adrian Peterson.....etc.

Your Crabtree point hammers home the nail in the Black Knights coffin lid, he just doesn't understand how badly beaten he is. As usual! ;D

TonyR
09-15-2009, 11:52 AM
I had no idea Michael Crabtree was a superstar. Clearly, jersey sales are a leading indicator of a player's success on the field, and a testament to their achievements.


He doesn't understand, and he won't no matter how much we simplify it for him. He can't comprehend that Cutler's jersey sales are a function of the team change and the large market. If Cutler were truly a "superstar" his jersey sales would have been really high before the trade. He's definitely below the following in "superstar" status:

1. Tom Brady (no argument)
1a. Peyton Manning (no argument)
3. Brett Favre (fading, but still very much a household name)
4. Eli Manning (Super Bowl champ, NYC, brother of Peyton)
5. Ben Roethlisberger (two rings, Steelers)
6. Tony Romo (Cowboys, Jessica Simpson)
7. Kurt Warner (also fading, but past Super Bowl champ, recent Super Bowl appearance)
8. Donovan McNabb

BroncoBuff
09-15-2009, 11:54 AM
How many times are you going to say this? Aren't you one of the biggest buttler's?

LOL ... I used to be. But less and less with time.

Actually, I wasn't even all that interested Sunday night. Watched on and off. He sucked.

Wanna do a REAL Jay-Obsession test? It's easy actually, just search your user name, the "last month", "posts", and the terms "Cutler" and "Orton." (maybe also try "Jay" and "Kyle") If you're posting more about the Bears QB than our QB, you might just be obsessed. Example, Popps: Orton=59, Cutler=221 ... I knew he was obsessed, but it is nice to have the stats to prove it. ;D

TonyR
09-15-2009, 11:57 AM
I'm not gonna argue ambiguous terms like "superstar," that's not relevant.

Yep, it's a silly argument, I agree. My standard for "superstar" is some combination of household name, national marketing campaigns, and winning. Jay Cutler fails in all three categories.

jhns
09-15-2009, 11:59 AM
Not at all. No one is arguing that the QB must do everything.

But thinking that having the best selling Jersey and a losing record and awful stats means a QB is a Superstar......well that's just stupid.

But Lex is the epitome of the Black Knight metaphor........a connection he hasn't made yet, so he doesn't get the joke!

While I'm not saying jay is a superstar, the theory that you have to win to be one isn't very reasonable. There are players in the HOF that never won a SB and played far longer than Jays 3 years so far. Then there are players like LT, who will retire with only a couple playoff wins in his entire career. His team hadn't won anything at all, not even makeing the playoffs once, by the time people were calling him a superstar.

All of this argument is kind of dumb anyways. While you may find definitions, who is a superstar is a subjective thing. Everyone has a different list of who they think are superstars. Some people have a list of two players while others think half the league qualifies.

TonyR
09-15-2009, 11:59 AM
Then your memory is not very good about how it went down.

I agree that the teams you mentioned may have had serious interest in acquiring Jay Cutler. But I don't think this was driven by him being a "superstar" (to stay with our silly argument) or being a great QB. It was instead driven by the fact that he probably would have been an upgrade for all of these teams at the QB position.

DenverBrit
09-15-2009, 12:06 PM
While I'm not saying jay is a superstar, the theory that you have to win to be one isn't very reasonable. There are players in the HOF that never won a SB and played far longer than Jays 3 years so far. Then there are players like LT, who will retire with only a couple playoff wins in his entire career. His team hadn't won anything at all, not even makeing the playoffs once, by the time people were calling him a superstar.

All of this argument is kind of dumb anyways. While you may find definitions, who is a superstar is a subjective thing. Everyone has a different list of who they think are superstars. Some people have a list of two players while others think half the league qualifies.

To be a Superstar without winning means you have to be an exceptional talent....Barry Sanders comes to mind.

Cutler may become an outstanding QB in time, but right now (which is what we're all talking about) Cutler is anything but a Superstar, a winner, a class act, exceptional talent. etc.

DivineLegion
09-15-2009, 12:24 PM
Yeah, all QBs that can't keep up with 110 points in 3 games are chokers. Who cares that the majority of the starting defense, along with a good number of offensive players, where injured? That couldn't be why the TEAM got worse. I can see why you would expect a 3rd year guy, on an offense of rookie-third year players, to do it all on their own without mistakes. That is why you see units that young in the SB every year...... Riiiiight.

We allowed 82 against our first 3 and started the season 3-0, then against one of the worst defenses of all time Cutler threw 2 picks and only one touchdown providing the Chiefs one of their two wins on the season. Then Jay actually manages a game against a top defense, followed by another decent game vs the Jags, only to come out on Monday night and Suck ass against the Patriots. Following a bye week he comes out and Flops at home against the Dolphins starting off the game with a pick 6. Finally he shows up against one of the worst teams in the league, the Browns, and wins a game he is supposed to. Mike Shannahan called the next game around ball control and TOP won the game for us against a young up and coming Falcons team on the road. After gaining some momentum the F-tard comes out (at home) and Loses the freaking raiders. He turns the ball over 2 times and has by far his worst game ever...at home vs a division rival. The team comes together against the Jets with a well rounded performance and dominance from Peyton Hillis. In desperation Cutler puts together a good game against the Chiefs dismal Defense...Finally.

Then the Flop...after a mediocre season.

3 games, you only need to win one...one game, this is where clutch players step up. We dident have win all 3, just ONE.

Panthers: Ill give them credit, great home record and strong running game.

Cutler...172 yards 1 TD 1 INT, didn't even look like he was out there to play the game.

Bills: Must win game.

Cutler...24 of 45 for 359 yrds 1 INT (in the endzone on a terrible pass, should have been two at the end of the game) Remind anyone of a game just played?

Im not going to go over the Chargers game for you because to be honest at this point I think you get the picture. The moment when legends are born...boys are separated from men, and good quarterbacks define their carriers...the last min. vs the Bills, touchdown wins the game. Cutler throws a pick. EPIC FAIL.

I know this might be unnecessary for some of you with good memories but I wanted to remind all of the Jay lovers, that last years failure was not all defense and lack of running game. Mopey blew it against the Raiders at home, the 2 win Chiefs, and in the biggest moment in his 3 year carrier the Bills at home.

I will take a new model Defense and a ****ty QB over this hype machine any day. Im not going to lie, I thought he was going to be great. I drank the kool-aid and it hurt when we let him go but in hindsight its the best thing this franchise has done in years. I took off my orange glasses (Cutler top 5 QB...LOL), looked back on the season and realized my mistake. I am a Bronco fan before anything else and I could care less if this piece is gone.
:peace:

rastaman
09-15-2009, 12:27 PM
I guess you didnt bother checking out the Bear forums on Sunday. Some were calling for Orton or Grossman.

Not all Chicagoans are making excuses:

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/14/view-from-chicago-on-cutlers-debut/


Edit: Wow, they are destroying Cutler in the comments section. :spit:

Not all Bear Fans see it that way. Here some opitmism from fans towards Cutler.

Fan:
I think it is too early to start doubting his ability. Yes he looked bad in the first half. The biggest problem I noticed was the offensive line was out classed.

I don’t see anyone doubting Forte, who had a mediocre night, with 55 yards and a 2.2 yard average. The O-line was a sieve. I was shocked after the first half, but saw some light in the second half.

Take away the interceptions, and a 277 yard passing game for the Bears is fantastic. I have great hopes for Cutler and believe he will deliver. If it wouldn’t have been for Vasher getting burned, the fourth interception wouldn’t have happened, and everyone would be singing his praise. It would all been about how poised he was in the second half after a horrible first half.

I’m more worried about the lack of experienced receivers that the Bears have and horrible the O-line did.

— John

8. September 14, 2009
5:46 pm

Link
I think the biggest indicator that this is not yet Culver’s team was the lack of effort by his receivers. For a couple of those interceptions the receivers did not fight for the ball, they just stood there and watched as the ball was picked off. This, to me, indicates that the team has not bought into him being the quarterback, and that is a bad sign for the Bears.

— Rob

We can’t give up on Cutler for just one off game. True, I did expect more than I got from him, but the season is far from over. And let’s not forget, it was the receivers that stood there and let the ball go wherever.

— Shan

Cutler needs coaches that will help him to develop mental toughness. He already has good physical skills and is a smart guy. So he is trainable, with the right coaches…

Hopefully the Bears Offensive Line will also continue to develop.

So ya see not all Bear fans are piling on!!! Notice they're ain't no monolithic homerism amongst the Bear fans. They actually allow their fans to have a differing of opinion(s). Broncos fans should learn from this.

rastaman
09-15-2009, 12:31 PM
We allowed 82 against our first 3 and started the season 3-0, then against one of the worst defenses of all time Cutler threw 2 picks and only one touchdown providing the Chiefs one of their two wins on the season. Then Jay actually manages a game against a top defense, followed by another decent game vs the Jags, only to come out on Monday night and Suck ass against the Patriots. Following a bye week he comes out and Flops at home against the Dolphins starting off the game with a pick 6. Finally he shows up against one of the worst teams in the league, the Browns, and wins a game he is supposed to. Mike Shannahan called the next game around ball control and TOP won the game for us against a young up and coming Falcons team on the road. After gaining some momentum the F-tard comes out (at home) and Loses the freaking raiders. He turns the ball over 2 times and has by far his worst game ever...at home vs a division rival. The team comes together against the Jets with a well rounded performance and dominance from Peyton Hillis. In desperation Cutler puts together a good game against the Chiefs dismal Defense...Finally.

Then the Flop...after a mediocre season.

3 games, you only need to win one...one game, this is where clutch players step up. We dident have win all 3, just ONE.

Panthers: Ill give them credit, great home record and strong running game.

Cutler...172 yards 1 TD 1 INT, didn't even look like he was out there to play the game.

Bills: Must win game.

Cutler...24 of 45 for 359 yrds 1 INT (in the endzone on a terrible pass, should have been two at the end of the game) Remind anyone of a game just played?

Im not going to go over the Chargers game for you because to be honest at this point I think you get the picture. The moment when legends are born...boys are separated from men, and good quarterbacks define their carriers...the last min. vs the Bills, touchdown wins the game. Cutler throws a pick. EPIC FAIL.

I know this might be unnecessary for some of you with good memories but I wanted to remind all of the Jay lovers, that last years failure was not all defense and lack of running game. Mopey blew it against the Raiders at home, the 2 win Chiefs, and in the biggest moment in his 3 year carrier the Bills at home.

I will take a new model Defense and a ****ty QB over this hype machine any day. Im not going to lie, I thought he was going to be great. I drank the kool-aid and it hurt when we let him go but in hindsight its the best thing this franchise has done in years. I took off my orange glasses (Cutler top 5 QB...LOL), looked back on the season and realized my mistake. I am a Bronco fan before anything else and I could care less if this piece is gone.
:peace:

Yeah so what.....you're a blind-gullible pro Bowlen-McDaniel's fan and you wear it with as a Band of Honor! Now what???

jhns
09-15-2009, 12:36 PM
We allowed 82 against our first 3 and started the season 3-0, then against one of the worst defenses of all time Cutler threw 2 picks and only one touchdown providing the Chiefs one of their two wins on the season. Then Jay actually manages a game against a top defense, followed by another decent game vs the Jags, only to come out on Monday night and Suck ass against the Patriots. Following a bye week he comes out and Flops at home against the Dolphins starting off the game with a pick 6. Finally he shows up against one of the worst teams in the league, the Browns, and wins a game he is supposed to. Mike Shannahan called the next game around ball control and TOP won the game for us against a young up and coming Falcons team on the road. After gaining some momentum the F-tard comes out (at home) and Loses the freaking raiders. He turns the ball over 2 times and has by far his worst game ever...at home vs a division rival. The team comes together against the Jets with a well rounded performance and dominance from Peyton Hillis. In desperation Cutler puts together a good game against the Chiefs dismal Defense...Finally.

Then the Flop...after a mediocre season.

3 games, you only need to win one...one game, this is where clutch players step up. We dident have win all 3, just ONE.

Panthers: Ill give them credit, great home record and strong running game.

Cutler...172 yards 1 TD 1 INT, didn't even look like he was out there to play the game.

Bills: Must win game.

Cutler...24 of 45 for 359 yrds 1 INT (in the endzone on a terrible pass, should have been two at the end of the game) Remind anyone of a game just played?

Im not going to go over the Chargers game for you because to be honest at this point I think you get the picture. The moment when legends are born...boys are separated from men, and good quarterbacks define their carriers...the last min. vs the Bills, touchdown wins the game. Cutler throws a pick. EPIC FAIL.

I know this might be unnecessary for some of you with good memories but I wanted to remind all of the Jay lovers, that last years failure was not all defense and lack of running game. Mopey blew it against the Raiders at home, the 2 win Chiefs, and in the biggest moment in his 3 year carrier the Bills at home.

I will take a new model Defense and a ****ty QB over this hype machine any day. Im not going to lie, I thought he was going to be great. I drank the kool-aid and it hurt when we let him go but in hindsight its the best thing this franchise has done in years. I took off my orange glasses (Cutler top 5 QB...LOL), looked back on the season and realized my mistake. I am a Bronco fan before anything else and I could care less if this piece is gone.
:peace:

1) Cutler injured his throwing hand on the second(?maybe third) play of the game against NE.

2) You left out the 2 rushing TDs jay had in the second to last game.

3) You are talking about a 3rd year player that was on an offense of rookie-third year players. That extremely young offense then had a bunch of injuries and was still asked to do everything because there was no team around them. You are saying Jay sucks for not makeing the youngest offense in the league into a mistake free best offense in the league. Rediculously dumb argument. Yes, he has a long way to go, just as most young players that are expected to carry teams on their own. Look at any other who had that pressure early.


Also, a lot of the QBs that you now rate above jay also have a ton of wins when they put up identical stats to ehat jay had in a lot of his losses. This only shows how dumb it is to say a single player is bad for not winning on their own in a TEAM game.

Don't believe me though. Watch the season play out. You saw the Bears. How much you want to bet jay and the bears finish with mpore wins than orton and the broncos?

Williams
09-15-2009, 12:38 PM
Yeah so what.....you're a blind-gullible pro Bowlen-McDaniel's fan and you wear it with as a Band of Honor! Now what???


If you're such a hardcore Cutler fan, why post here so much? You do realize he's a Chicago Bear now and this is a Denver Broncos forum. Are you trying to convince us he's an elite quarterback and Bowlen made a mistake? Are you trying to convince yourself? Does it hurt your feelings when people punk Cutler? That's going to continue to happen here as long as he's in the NFL... and throwing four picks certainly isnt helping his cause. See, Denver Bronco fans generally dont like Cutler. You're gonna continue to get burned trying to defend the man's honor in every thread.

BroncoMan4ever
09-15-2009, 12:41 PM
You don't see a line forming around the league supporting the decisions of Bowlen and McDaniel's over the off season either! ;)

Nor do I see Bear fans demanding the Broncos return Orton back to them!!:~ohyah!:

no one is asking for Orton back, but i have seen many posts from CHicago fans wanting us to take back our former pro bowler.

Cool Breeze
09-15-2009, 12:42 PM
Jim Mora: Jay Cutler 'completely immature' after Bears loss

Former NFL coaches Mike Martz and Jim Mora criticized Bears QB Jay Cutler after his debut loss to the Packers on Sunday and said Cutler is still not showing the maturity the Bears need from him.
Mora, the former Colts and Saints coach and the father of current Seahawks coach Jim Mora, said on the NFLN that Cutler "acted like he didn't even care" when speaking to reporters following the 21-15 loss in Green Bay.
"When I saw that postgame press conference last night, I thought he looked completely immature," Mora said.
Added Martz, ""He just doesn't get it. He doesn't understand that he represents a great head coach and the rest of those players on that team ... somebody needs to talk to him."
Martz and Mora are analysts on the NFLN's show, The Head Coaches.
Cutler threw four interceptions in his first start for the Bears after being traded from Denver. He was 17-for-36 for 277 yards with a touchdown pass, but seemed to have trouble connecting with his receiving corps.
After the game, Cutler appeared in a t-shirt and Bears hat to speak with reporters. "It's tough but we've got 15 more to play," he said. "There's a lot of football left in this season." (See the video here (http://www.nfl.com/videos/chicago-bears/09000d5d81299f24/Bears-postgame-press-conference).)
Mora, who once had an infamous breakdown ("Playoffs?" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwq7BYOnDrM)) in a postgame interview, said Cutler needs to present a better image.
"Having always handled my postgame press conferences in a professional way, I'm an authority on these types of things," Mora said. "I just didn't think he was very professional, very accountable. I could give him a tip or two." -- Sean Leahy
Hat tip: Chicago Sun-Times (http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2009/09/another_lovie_coaching_friend.html)

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2009/09/jim-mora-jay-cutler-completely-immature-after-bears-loss/1

Rabb
09-15-2009, 12:43 PM
It's his line, lt's his receivers, it's his coaches, it's NOT his fault = last year It's his defense, it's NOT his fault

well, which is it?

I guess poor Jay will always be a great player among people unworthy of him, boy how great would it be for these superstar QB's to be surrounded by all-star teams!!

Orton seemed to do ok with the same people there...weird.

BroncoMan4ever
09-15-2009, 12:43 PM
To be a Superstar without winning means you have to be an exceptional talent....Barry Sanders comes to mind.

Cutler may become an outstanding QB in time, but right now (which is what we're all talking about) Cutler is anything but a Superstar, a winner, a class act, exceptional talent. etc.

exactly, right now Cutler is all potential. he is not a superstar, he has far too many mental hangups, tendency to whine and mope, tends to suck when it matters most. he has potential and very well may become an elite QB in the NFL, but as of right now, he is nowhere near that elite status. he has the potential, just needs to put it all together

BroncoMan4ever
09-15-2009, 12:45 PM
It's his line, lt's his receivers, it's his coaches, it's NOT his fault = last year It's his defense, it's NOT his fault

well, which is it?

I guess poor Jay will always be a great player among people unworthy of him, boy how great would it be for these superstar QB's to be surrounded by all-star teams!!

Orton seemed to do ok with the same people there...weird.

anyone recall Orton ever throwing 4 INTs in a game during his time in Chicago?

broncswin
09-15-2009, 12:49 PM
So, jay sucks huh? Is that why no one can get over him? Plus, are you really sure you want to talk crap? I mean, his suck is still going to do a lot more to help chicago win than orton will ever do for this team. Although, he may have to find an offensive coordinator to help some first. They called plays like they had a 10 year vet Manning with actual receivers.

Oh poor Jay can never find the right situation can he...come on dude quit defending this guy everytime he struggles...that is why Jay is like he is, because everyone always makes excuses for him.

It will always be the recievers, or the defense, or the coordinator, or the head coach...BUT it will never be Jay!

Mr.Meanie
09-15-2009, 12:50 PM
1) Cutler injured his throwing hand on the second(?maybe third) play of the game against NE.

2) You left out the 2 rushing TDs jay had in the second to last game.

3) You are talking about a 3rd year player that was on an offense of rookie-third year players. That extremely young offense then had a bunch of injuries and was still asked to do everything because there was no team around them. You are saying Jay sucks for not makeing the youngest offense in the league into a mistake free best offense in the league. Rediculously dumb argument. Yes, he has a long way to go, just as most young players that are expected to carry teams on their own. Look at any other who had that pressure early.


Also, a lot of the QBs that you now rate above jay also have a ton of wins when they put up identical stats to ehat jay had in a lot of his losses. This only shows how dumb it is to say a single player is bad for not winning on their own in a TEAM game.

Don't believe me though. Watch the season play out. You saw the Bears. How much you want to bet jay and the bears finish with mpore wins than orton and the broncos?

Sunday must have been really disappointing for you. Sorry for your loss.

BroncoMan4ever
09-15-2009, 12:51 PM
Jay has the top selling jersey. He's a pro bowler. He has statistical credentials. And he is now playing in the 3rd largest city in the US. Like it or not, he already is a superstar. The guy was actually being conservative in saying he will become one.

it is a good bet to say that the majority of the jerseys of his that have sold were sold in Chicago. all good players jersey sales spike after a big trade, and with him being sent to a QB starved town it is no wonder his jersey sales are that high.

everyone knows the pro bowl is a bull**** stat to bring up when calling a player elite or superstar, because if it was based on merit, Jay doesn't even come close to going to the pro bowl last season.

who gives a damn where he is playing? in Chicago, the Bears are not even the premier sports franchise like in Denver where football is the most important sport year round, and the Broncos own the city.

like it or not, he has a long way to go before he is pro bowl calibur or a superstar

broncswin
09-15-2009, 12:53 PM
It's his line, lt's his receivers, it's his coaches, it's NOT his fault = last year It's his defense, it's NOT his fault

well, which is it?

I guess poor Jay will always be a great player among people unworthy of him, boy how great would it be for these superstar QB's to be surrounded by all-star teams!!

Orton seemed to do ok with the same people there...weird.

Wow...didn't even get to your post when I posted...Jay will always be handled with kid gloves, which is the worst thing for him. I do however have many concerns with Orton, the guy doesn't see the field and dancing in the pocket like he is the next dancing with the stars NFL player. But then again he is only in his 30 something start...I hear that is a good excuse for another QB I know.;D

jhns
09-15-2009, 12:54 PM
anyone recall Orton ever throwing 4 INTs in a game during his time in Chicago?

Have you watched chicago games with orton? For one, they aren't the same team. Orton played that bad all of his first year. He was on that team for four years before last year. They never called games like they just did for jay. They were conservative with orton. With jay, they didn't even try establishing the run early and called plays like they had a 10 year vet and actual recievers that are all in sync.

Why do people act like they have never watched this game just because a player cries?

lex
09-15-2009, 12:56 PM
Let's not forget, that being first in Jersey sales means you're more of a Superstar than Manning, Brady, Big Ben, Adrian Peterson.....etc.

Your Crabtree point hammers home the nail in the Black Knights coffin lid, he just doesn't understand how badly beaten he is. As usual! ;D

Not at all. Im the only one who has provided a definition that wasnt my own. And by those definitions Jay is a superstar. If your only rebuttal is to tailor your own definitions to suit your own arguments and rely on that solely, then you are black knight defined.

And just to circle back because its necessary. Someone said Jay will be a superstar. TonyR denied that it would happen. I provided definitions that were not my own that show Cutler can be called a superstar now, which kills his original assertion that he will never be one. Its all in the term. Not knowing that superstar has a mass appeal connotation does not give you leeway to make stuff up and tailor your own definitions.

lex
09-15-2009, 12:59 PM
it is a good bet to say that the majority of the jerseys of his that have sold were sold in Chicago. all good players jersey sales spike after a big trade, and with him being sent to a QB starved town it is no wonder his jersey sales are that high.

everyone knows the pro bowl is a bull**** stat to bring up when calling a player elite or superstar, because if it was based on merit, Jay doesn't even come close to going to the pro bowl last season.

who gives a damn where he is playing? in Chicago, the Bears are not even the premier sports franchise like in Denver where football is the most important sport year round, and the Broncos own the city.

like it or not, he has a long way to go before he is pro bowl calibur or a superstar


The term superstar connotes mass appreal. Your not really accomplishing anything by pointing any of this out. If you want to say he's not an elite QB, thats one thing, but its silly to try to pretend he's not a superstar just because you dont like him. Theres no handicap because of the fact that he now plays in the 3rd biggest mediia market. It enhances everything: jersey sales, tv exposure, etc...all of which tie into mass appeal.

Rabb
09-15-2009, 12:59 PM
Have you watched chicago games with orton? For one, they aren't the same team. Orton played that bad all of his first year. He was on that team for four years before last year. They never called games like they just did for jay. They were conservative with orton. With jay, they didn't even try establishing the run early and called plays like they had a 10 year vet and actual recievers that are all in sync.

Why do people act like they have never watched this game just because a player cries?

well thank God they called the game differently, or they may have avoided 4 picks

jhns
09-15-2009, 01:01 PM
Sunday must have been really disappointing for you. Sorry for your loss.

It was a sad day. It was the day I found out I was right about everything we have done. We looked like crap in every phase of the game. I know you think the team is great for winning but just wait. I actually understand what I see and this team is not winning very many games this season.

Chicago will win a lot more than this team with the player you all can't get over while saying it is impossible to win with him.

rastaman
09-15-2009, 01:04 PM
If you're such a hardcore Cutler fan, why post here so much? You do realize he's a Chicago Bear now and this is a Denver Broncos forum. Are you trying to convince us he's an elite quarterback and Bowlen made a mistake? Are you trying to convince yourself? Does it hurt your feelings when people punk Cutler? That's going to continue to happen here as long as he's in the NFL... and throwing four picks certainly isnt helping his cause. See, Denver Bronco fans generally dont like Cutler. You're gonna continue to get burned trying to defend the man's honor in every thread.

You are one to speak! On the one hand folks like advocate that Cutler is gone move on. Then you notoriously revert back to your childish behavior of smearing and hating a player that hasn't done anything to you personally. Rather than concentrate on the limit skills of Orton, you'd rather rag on and negatively comment on a player that no longer wheres a Bronco uniform while wishing hime ill-will and failure. So how does this imature attitude make you a better fan!!!

Your Group Think-Mob Rule behavior is leaves a lot to be desired. Your Harry-High-School fan mentality and College Rah-Rah BS doesn't belong in the NFL. Blind Gullible Fanantic Fans belong in HS and College or amature sports.

BroncoBuff
09-15-2009, 01:05 PM
1) Cutler injured his throwing hand on the second(?maybe third) play of the game against NE.

2) You left out the 2 rushing TDs jay had in the second to last game.

3) You are talking about a 3rd year player that was on an offense of rookie-third year players. That extremely young offense then had a bunch of injuries and was still asked to do everything because there was no team around them. You are saying Jay sucks for not makeing the youngest offense in the league into a mistake free best offense in the league. Rediculously dumb argument. Yes, he has a long way to go, just as most young players that are expected to carry teams on their own. Look at any other who had that pressure early.


Also, a lot of the QBs that you now rate above jay also have a ton of wins when they put up identical stats to ehat jay had in a lot of his losses. This only shows how dumb it is to say a single player is bad for not winning on their own in a TEAM game.

Don't believe me though. Watch the season play out. You saw the Bears. How much you want to bet jay and the bears finish with mpore wins than orton and the broncos?

You forgot the diabetes in 2007 ... seriously, he lost 35 pounds and was sleeping 12 hours a day. I still think he was nails to soldier on through all that and put up those numbers.

Good luck to you guys ... in 2010 anyway.

lex
09-15-2009, 01:05 PM
To be a Superstar without winning means you have to be an exceptional talent....Barry Sanders comes to mind.

Cutler may become an outstanding QB in time, but right now (which is what we're all talking about) Cutler is anything but a Superstar, a winner, a class act, exceptional talent. etc.


Wrong again. Cutler does have exceptional talent. He's not refined or as polished as some other guys though. Whether or not he has talent is really not in dispute.

BroncoMan4ever
09-15-2009, 01:07 PM
Have you watched chicago games with orton? For one, they aren't the same team. Orton played that bad all of his first year. He was on that team for four years before last year. They never called games like they just did for jay. They were conservative with orton. With jay, they didn't even try establishing the run early and called plays like they had a 10 year vet and actual recievers that are all in sync.

Why do people act like they have never watched this game just because a player cries?

Orton also led them to the playoffs his 1st year. and just because they were calling pass plays suddenly excuses Jay for 4 interceptions? they gave up a lot and basically mortgaged their immediate future on his arm leading them to and winning championships, of course they are going to put their investment to work. they alter the system to fit the player they have under center. with Orton he doesn't have the rocket arm so they relied on balanced offense and defense to win, with Jay it is the opposite and the fact that they gave up a lot for him means they are going to go to the air.

so many people always have an excuse for him. here it was the defense or bad play calling, college it was a weak team in the SEC, Chicago it is poor receivers, new system, bad coaching, stupid play calling, when is it ever the "perfect" Jay Cutler's fault?

the constant excuses for him are why he wasn't man enough to handle criticism and why he no longer plays in Denver.

Williams
09-15-2009, 01:08 PM
You are one to speak! On the one hand folks like advocate that Cutler is gone move on. Then you notoriously revert back to your childish behavior of smearing and hating a player that hasn't done anything to you personally. Rather than concentrate on the limit skills of Orton, you'd rather rag on and negatively comment on a player that no longer wheres a Bronco uniform while wishing hime ill-will and failure. So how does this imature attitude make you a better fan!!!

Your Group Think-Mob Rule behavior is leaves a lot to be desired. Your Harry-High-School fan mentality and College Rah-Rah BS doesn't belong in the NFL. Blind Gullible Fanantic Fans belong in HS and College or amature sports.

Easy there, sunshine. I was trying to help you.

TonyR
09-15-2009, 01:12 PM
People are starting to catch on...


Why do Lovie's buddies keep piling on Cutler?
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on September 15, 2009 2:41 PM ET

You don't need to be an NFL insider to have heard the whispers about Jay Cutler's leadership skills (or lack thereof.)

The issue went national, of course, during the long buildup to Cutler's trade to Chicago, with Tony Dungy being one of the most outspoken people who questioned Cutler's maturity a few months after he joined the Bears.

Those comments raised a few eyebrows considering Dungy's relationship with Bears coach Lovie Smith, and now another coach close to Smith has jumped on Cutler's behavior.

As pointed out by The Chicago Sun-Times, Mike Martz was critical of Cutler during his NFL Network gig, especially Cutler's behavior in his post-game presser.

"[Cutler] just doesn't get it,'' Martz said. "He doesn't understand that he represents a great head coach and the rest of those players on that team ... somebody needs to talk to him."

Jim Mora also slammed Cutler for "acting like he didn't even care," which we're not sure is fair. Whether you like it or not, Cutler's laconic demeanor is a lot more consistent than his decision-making on the field. He's just not going to give fire-and-brimstone speeches.

Cutler's attitude towards the press is a lot less interesting to us than his interaction with his teammates. There have been signs that Cutler wasn't exactly a beloved leader in the Denver locker room.

Journalist Stefan Fatsis, who spent training camp in 2006 with the Broncos for a book he wrote, alluded to Cutler's aloof nature in a recent interview with the On the DL Podcast. (Outstanding book incidentally.)

Fatsis had close ties with folks throughout the Broncos organization, and there seemed to legitimate questions from within whether Cutler had the "intangibles" necessary to lead a football team. It's fair to wonder whether Josh McDaniels and company took this into account before dealing Cutler away.

Fatsis' comments popped in my head when I read what Martz's said. Hearing one coach close to Lovie Smith question Cutler's maturity was odd, but two seems like a trend.

Brad Biggs of the Sun-Times said it perfectly: "At this point, it's fair to wonder if Lovie Smith shares the same viewpoints as his mentors."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/09/15/why-do-lovies-buddies-keep-piling-on-cutler/

BroncoMan4ever
09-15-2009, 01:13 PM
The term superstar connotes mass appreal. Your not really accomplishing anything by pointing any of this out. If you want to say he's not an elite QB, thats one thing, but its silly to try to pretend he's not a superstar just because you dont like him. Theres no handicap because of the fact that he now plays in the 3rd biggest mediia market. It enhances everything: jersey sales, tv exposure, etc...all of which tie into mass appeal.

how is it mass appeal when outside of Chicago most people see him as a new version of Jeff George?

Peyton Manning is a superstar, Brady is a superstar, Cutler is a local celebrity. he is locally loved in the state he is in. he has not reached global or even national celebrity status. you say mass appeal connotes a superstar, outside of people in Denver or CHicago, there are few people to whom he is immediately recongnizable.

non football people know who Manning and Brady are because they are superstars, if you don't follow football you don't know who Cutler is.

Popcorn Sutton
09-15-2009, 01:14 PM
It was a sad day. It was the day I found out I was right about everything we have done. We looked like crap in every phase of the game. I know you think the team is great for winning but just wait. I actually understand what I see and this team is not winning very many games this season.

Chicago will win a lot more than this team with the player you all can't get over while saying it is impossible to win with him.

Yowsers!

It was an ugly win but every phase of the game was crap? You can't find any positives? Not one?

BroncoMan4ever
09-15-2009, 01:18 PM
It was a sad day. It was the day I found out I was right about everything we have done. We looked like crap in every phase of the game. I know you think the team is great for winning but just wait. I actually understand what I see and this team is not winning very many games this season.

Chicago will win a lot more than this team with the player you all can't get over while saying it is impossible to win with him.

give me a break on that noise. our special teams looked better than they have in recent years, and our defense looked good, for the 1st time in 3 years, say what you want about yardage allowed or giving up a TD drive late in the game, there was consistent pressure on Palmer, we got 2 turnovers, 3 sacks and were pitching a shut out until 38 seconds left in the game.

crap in every phase of the game, did you even watch?

TonyR
09-15-2009, 01:18 PM
Peyton Manning is a superstar, Brady is a superstar, Cutler is a local celebrity. he is locally loved in the state he is in. he has not reached global or even national celebrity status. you say mass appeal connotes a superstar, outside of people in Denver or CHicago, there are few people to whom he is immediately recongnizable.

non football people know who Manning and Brady are because they are superstars, if you don't follow football you don't know who Cutler is.

Exactly. Glad to see some people get it. It's SO simple and self explanatory but apparently also lex-proof...

TonyR
09-15-2009, 01:21 PM
...crap in every phase of the game, did you even watch?

It is ridiculous, isn't it? Hard to argue with people who spout such stupidity. But he was right about everything, don't forget that.

lex
09-15-2009, 01:22 PM
how is it mass appeal when outside of Chicago most people see him as a new version of Jeff George?

Peyton Manning is a superstar, Brady is a superstar, Cutler is a local celebrity. he is locally loved in the state he is in. he has not reached global or even national celebrity status. you say mass appeal connotes a superstar, outside of people in Denver or CHicago, there are few people to whom he is immediately recongnizable.

non football people know who Manning and Brady are because they are superstars, if you don't follow football you don't know who Cutler is.

Sorry but being a local celebrity in Chicago, is basially being a national celebrity. Its circular. Networks play to the larger media markets and, therefore, give exposure to its players, especially when its a big splash talent acquisition at the quarter back position.

lex
09-15-2009, 01:25 PM
Exactly. Glad to see some people get it. It's SO simple and self explanatory but apparently also lex-proof...

No, you were trying to say he wasnt an elite QB, which has some merit but your **** up was equating that terminology with the word superstar when theyre not the synonymous.

BroncoMan4ever
09-15-2009, 01:39 PM
Sorry but being a local celebrity in Chicago, is basially being a national celebrity. Its circular. Networks play to the larger media markets and, therefore, give exposure to its players, especially when its a big splash talent acquisition at the quarter back position.

was he a superstar in Denver? or did he just elevate to superstar status in the last few months?

TonyR
09-15-2009, 01:52 PM
No, you were trying to say he wasnt an elite QB, which has some merit but your **** up was equating that terminology with the word superstar when theyre not the synonymous.

I was NOT trying to say he wasn't an elite QB, that wasn't the discussion. But now that you mention it he's neither an elite QB nor a celebrity.

lex
09-15-2009, 01:53 PM
was he a superstar in Denver? or did he just elevate to superstar status in the last few months?

Perhaps he was in Denver. A lot of national media latched onto him last year. But his exposure increased with the offseason controversy and also by ending up in Chicago.

jhns
09-15-2009, 02:10 PM
give me a break on that noise. our special teams looked better than they have in recent years, and our defense looked good, for the 1st time in 3 years, say what you want about yardage allowed or giving up a TD drive late in the game, there was consistent pressure on Palmer, we got 2 turnovers, 3 sacks and were pitching a shut out until 38 seconds left in the game.

crap in every phase of the game, did you even watch?

The defense and special temas where better than last year. I wasn't aware that better meant good though. Also, the offense was far worse and the team in general plays a lot sloppier than any Shanahan team has (maybe not his defenses, bit the overall teams). Anyways, just wait until we play a team that doesn't beat themselves. We are going to get blown out a lot this season if stuff doesn't improve a LOT.

DenverBrit
09-15-2009, 02:10 PM
I provided definitions that were not my own that show Cutler can be called a superstar now, which kills his original assertion that he will never be one. Its all in the term. Not knowing that superstar has a mass appeal connotation does not give you leeway to make stuff up and tailor your own definitions.

You went much further than the 'dictionary' definition of what defines a Superstar.

Your assertion that JC is a superstar was based on this:

Jay has the top selling jersey. He's a pro bowler. He has statistical credentials. And he is now playing in the 3rd largest city in the US. Like it or not, he already is a superstar.

Only later did you back-peddle on the criteria. Nice try, though, as usual.

BroncoMan had it right when he called JC a 'local celebrity' that's all he is for now.
Maybe in time it will change, but for now, JC is underachieving his natural talent with his usual boneheaded plays and attitude.

NYBronco
09-15-2009, 02:11 PM
It was a sad day. It was the day I found out I was right about everything we have done. We looked like crap in every phase of the game. I know you think the team is great for winning but just wait. I actually understand what I see and this team is not winning very many games this season.

Chicago will win a lot more than this team with the player you all can't get over while saying it is impossible to win with him.

Let me guess... Cowher in Denver will make your hurt all better.

jhns
09-15-2009, 02:15 PM
It is ridiculous, isn't it? Hard to argue with people who spout such stupidity. But he was right about everything, don't forget that.

I'm not one to really care about people eating crow but I may have to bring this back up after we start playing real teams. I will show you what I mean at that time. We will see who the dumb people are.

Mr. Elway
09-15-2009, 02:15 PM
The defense and special temas where better than last year. I wasn't aware that better meant good though. Also, the offense was far worse and the team in general plays a lot sloppier than any Shanahan team has (maybe not his defenses, bit the overall teams). Anyways, just wait until we play a team that doesn't beat themselves. We are going to get blown out a lot this season if stuff doesn't improve a LOT.

so is it fair to say that your amended statement is "we played like crap in one phase of the game?"

jhns
09-15-2009, 02:18 PM
Let me guess... Cowher in Denver will make your hurt all better.

It sure would!

jhns
09-15-2009, 02:19 PM
so is it fair to say that your amended statement is "we played like crap in one phase of the game?"

No, we played like crap in every phase.

Mr. Elway
09-15-2009, 02:27 PM
No, we played like crap in every phase.

lol. You are totally losing credibility with that statement. Our D was very good (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2009/week-1-dvoa-ratings) - statistically, our defensive DVOA was -7.4%, 11th in the league on the week. On a week with some very strong defensive performances. Our special teams was 16th with -0.3%.

Maybe it's a fluke, but judging purely from this week, the stats don't lie.

Rulon Velvet Jones
09-15-2009, 02:27 PM
No, we played like crap in every phase.

It's already been proven you're a ****ing retard. Dumb posts like these only add to it.

jhns
09-15-2009, 02:30 PM
lol. You are totally losing credibility with that statement. Our D was very good (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2009/week-1-dvoa-ratings) - statistically, our defensive DVOA was -7.4%, 11th in the league on the week. On a week with some very strong defensive performances. Our special teams was 16th with -0.3%.

Maybe it's a fluke, but judging purely from this week, the stats don't lie.

LOL

I lose credibility and this is your argument? Why not watch the games and see? For one, they stopped themselves far more than we stopped them. Like I said, wait until we play a team that doesn't beat themselves and you will see what I am talking about.

I like DVOA rankings but they mean nothing after 1 week.

baja
09-15-2009, 02:31 PM
Here's the quote I like;


One of the key components of what makes a great quarterback is decision-making and judgment in situations that would make lesser men crumble like the Mayor of Gomorrah. Yet, time and time again Cutler has shown that he lacks those decision-making capabilities.

jhns
09-15-2009, 02:34 PM
It's already been proven you're a ****ing retard. Dumb posts like these only add to it.

No need to get angry there sport. Dust the sand out of your vag and get over yourself. You are nothing special.

Mr. Elway
09-15-2009, 02:36 PM
LOL

I lose credibility and this is your argument? Why not watch the games and see? For one, they stopped themselves far more than we stopped them. Like I said, wait until we play a team that doesn't beat themselves and you will see what I am talking about.

Wait, so is your take now "we should wait and see" or are you still saying "we played like crap in all 3 phases of the game and the season is already lost?"

Sorry I am losing track of your argument.

Mr.Meanie
09-15-2009, 02:37 PM
I'm sorry, but holding Carson Palmer and the Cincy offense to 0 points in 59 minutes and 7 points for the game is VERY good.

This isn't Madden... very few teams in the NFL pitch shutouts, then it's usually only the best defenses in the league against the worst offenses (SEA vs STL).

It's a fair argument to say the offense was terrible (6 points until the final fluke play), but saying that holding another team to 7 points is "crap" is just beyond retarded.

jhns
09-15-2009, 02:39 PM
Wait, so is your take now "we should wait and see" or are you still saying "we played like crap in all 3 phases of the game and the season is already lost?"

Sorry I am losing track of your argument.

We played like crap but you can't tell because the team we played was even worse(not really considering how we won). It will take you all a few more weeks to understand that we are playing crappy because we are playing teams that give the less knowledgable the illusion that we are playing good. If you think we were good this past game, this applies to you.

baja
09-15-2009, 02:42 PM
What makes his post more hopeful than yours?

lex, lets keep it simple for ya;

The occasional pretty pass does not a super star make.

rastaman
09-15-2009, 02:44 PM
Sunday must have been really disappointing for you. Sorry for your loss.

Sunday's lost for the Bears although disappointing wasn't too concerning b/c both QB, Wr's position coach, and offensive coord has all week to reveiw and correct what went wrong. Its foolish to thinks that Cutler and his WR's won't correct their problems all season and Cutler over the remainder of 15 games will avg. 3-4 INT's per game.

Cutler and the Bears passing and WR will get on the same page during the course of the season. In 2010 with a year of expericence with the Offense and the WR's getting better and with the possibility of adding a FA veteran WR and a veteran OLinemen, the Bears offense will only get better.

Like I said earlier, Cutler endured the same adversity while playing a Vanderbilt facing the top tier talent in the SEC. Theres no quit in Cutler and his determination alone to not quit will endure himself to his teammates.

jhns
09-15-2009, 02:44 PM
I'm sorry, but holding Carson Palmer and the Cincy offense to 0 points in 59 minutes and 7 points for the game is VERY good.

This isn't Madden... very few teams in the NFL pitch shutouts, then it's usually only the best defenses in the league against the worst offenses (SEA vs STL).

It's a fair argument to say the offense was terrible (6 points until the final fluke play), but saying that holding another team to 7 points is "crap" is just beyond retarded.

Go watch that game again. The majority of drives were ended by their terrible offense and not good plays from our defense. The majority of drives stopped with multiple wide open receivers dropping balls. You are talking about an out of sync offense that lost one of its best players. You are talking about, by far, the worst offense in the league last year.

Again, wait until this unit plays someone that doesn't beat themselves.

lex
09-15-2009, 02:46 PM
You went much further than the 'dictionary' definition of what defines a Superstar.

Your assertion that JC is a superstar was based on this:



Only later did you back-peddle on the criteria. Nice try, though, as usual.

BroncoMan had it right when he called JC a 'local celebrity' that's all he is for now.
Maybe in time it will change, but for now, JC is underachieving his natural talent with his usual boneheaded plays and attitude.

My assertion was that you can call him a superstar according to objective references and not just my own definition that is conveniently tailored around whatever position Ive taken.

lex
09-15-2009, 02:47 PM
lex, lets keep it simple for ya;

The occasional pretty pass does not a super star make.

If only you could wish things away by being so oblivious. Unfortunately, however, words have meaning.

BroncoMan4ever
09-15-2009, 02:47 PM
We played like crap but you can't tell because the team we played was even worse(not really considering how we won). It will take you all a few more weeks to understand that we are playing crappy because we are playing teams that give the less knowledgable the illusion that we are playing good. If you think we were good this past game, this applies to you.

you are retarded. in the NFL shutouts are rare. and the fact that our defense was going for a shutout until 38 seconds left in the game is great, especially since in recent years we have fielded defenses that would have allowed even a poor playing offense 30 points.

bfoflcommish
09-15-2009, 02:49 PM
Sunday's lost for the Bears although disappointing wasn't too concerning b/c both QB, Wr's position coach, and offensive coord has all week to reveiw and correct what went wrong. Its foolish to thinks that Cutler and his WR's won't correct their problems all season and Cutler over the remainder of 15 games will avg. 3-4 INT's per game.

Cutler and the Bears passing and WR will get on the same page during the course of the season. In 2010 with a year of expericence with the Offense and the WR's getting better and with the possibility of adding a FA veteran WR and a veteran OLinemen, the Bears offense will only get better.

Like I said earlier, Cutler endured the same adversity while playing a Vanderbilt facing the top tier talent in the SEC. Theres no quit in Cutler and his determination alone to not quit will endure himself to his teammates.

and how many "winning" seasons did he have as well as bowl wins?

jhns
09-15-2009, 02:50 PM
you are retarded. in the NFL shutouts are rare. and the fact that our defense was going for a shutout until 38 seconds left in the game is great, especially since in recent years we have fielded defenses that would have allowed even a poor playing offense 30 points.

We didn't get a shutout so I'm not sure what this shutout point is being made for. We let them drive rather easily when they needed to and dropped balls ended the majority of their drives. Again, I do think we are improving on defense. That doesn't mean we are playing good yet.

Mr. Elway
09-15-2009, 03:08 PM
We played like crap but you can't tell because the team we played was even worse(not really considering how we won). It will take you all a few more weeks to understand that we are playing crappy because we are playing teams that give the less knowledgable the illusion that we are playing good. If you think we were good this past game, this applies to you.

This is a slightly better case, but here is the problem:

If you said we played well defensively against a crappy team, so it is no indication of how we will play into the season, then that would be a reasonable case. But you said we played like crap defensively, when it's obvious we didn't.

The funny thing is, I am not sold on this team yet either. But it's so obvious you are sold AGAINST it, it pollutes your argument.

I am about as big of a wait-and-see proponent that you will find. I just think that you and some of the other anti-McD posters seem to think you are the only ones making a reasonable assessment, when it's completely obvious that you only see one side of it.

Bronx33
09-15-2009, 03:10 PM
Yawn-Yawn......panic when Cutler is in his 30's making the same mistakes. These are all mistakes of a qtr back that had only started 32 games. What we are witnessing are the growing pains of a young QB.

Tell the writer that Steve Young sucked early in his career as well. Steve Young is also a HOF QB.

Put Cutler in a Bill Walsh system or a Belichick system and we are all singing a different tune. Hell in the SB two years ago, Tom Brady looked like a mere mortal when his OL didn't give him time to throw b/c the NYG pass rush was relentless.

Point is, QB's are successful b/c of the sytem and talent they play in....plain and simple. Lets see how Cutler performs once he and his receivers get comfortable and have some years playing together. Lets see how Cutler performs once the Bears tweak their OL. Hell lets see how Cutler performs should he and Shanny reunite in Chi-town, should Lovee get Fired.

Cutler's future is nothing but up and he has yet to reach his full talent potential.

I noticed rasta was the very first to defend his favorite ball sack as usual.

Mr.Meanie
09-15-2009, 03:21 PM
Go watch that game again. The majority of drives were ended by their terrible offense and not good plays from our defense. The majority of drives stopped with multiple wide open receivers dropping balls. You are talking about an out of sync offense that lost one of its best players. You are talking about, by far, the worst offense in the league last year.

Again, wait until this unit plays someone that doesn't beat themselves.

Oh come on, now you're just cherry-picking the stats you want to see. Every team dropped balls, it's part of the game...especially in week 1. We dropped a bunch too, including a bomb to BM that would have put us in scoring range. There were also some possible picks dropped too on both teams.

New England let Buffalo (bottom 20's offense in '08) hang 24 points on them, and got lucky on a boneheaded play in the last 2 minutes. Would you think their defense is crap?

Mr.Meanie
09-15-2009, 03:30 PM
BTW, which defenses do you think played better than Denver's this week?

UberBroncoMan
09-15-2009, 03:58 PM
Cutler had every one of those things in Denver, and wasn't successful.

Defense?

/end

colonelbeef
09-15-2009, 04:05 PM
and how many "winning" seasons did he have as well as bowl wins?

Leinert went to multiple bowls and had all winning seasons.

How's he doing?

DenverBrit
09-15-2009, 04:12 PM
Leinert went to multiple bowls and had all winning seasons.

How's he doing?

He has an NFC Championship and Superbowl ring.

Well, you did ask. ;D

Bronx33
09-15-2009, 04:31 PM
Leinert went to multiple bowls and had all winning seasons.

How's he doing?

Hes bangin hot chicks so it doesn't matter find another example.

TonyR
09-15-2009, 04:40 PM
My assertion was that you can call him a superstar according to objective references and not just my own definition that is conveniently tailored around whatever position Ive taken.

Have you noticed yet that the only one who agrees with you is you?

lex
09-15-2009, 04:46 PM
Have you noticed yet that the only one who agrees with you is you?

Its not a vote. You whiffed and its as simple as that.

Circle Orange
09-15-2009, 04:53 PM
It's entirely possible that what you see is what you get. No more, no less...;D

BroncoMan4ever
09-15-2009, 05:20 PM
This is a slightly better case, but here is the problem:

If you said we played well defensively against a crappy team, so it is no indication of how we will play into the season, then that would be a reasonable case. But you said we played like crap defensively, when it's obvious we didn't.

The funny thing is, I am not sold on this team yet either. But it's so obvious you are sold AGAINST it, it pollutes your argument.

I am about as big of a wait-and-see proponent that you will find. I just think that you and some of the other anti-McD posters seem to think you are the only ones making a reasonable assessment, when it's completely obvious that you only see one side of it.

thank you for seeing that. i can understand the argument of we had a good defensive showing against a bad team, because that very well may end up being the case, but to just flat out say it sucked is blind.

and playing good against a bad team is major improvement over last 2 seasons because our defense made good teams look elite and made bad teams look elite, we sucked whether our opponent was good or bad.