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View Full Version : My top 5 QBs as of now:


mr007
09-14-2009, 11:00 PM
1.) Drew Brees - The guy is getting better and better which is hard to believe.

2.) Tom Brady - Unreal placement on his 2 strikes to Watson tonight.

3.) Peyton Manning - Understanding and dedication to the game is amazing.

4.) Aaron Rodgers - If you think this is a reach, I will pull this thread again by the end of the year. If Ogunleye wasn't in his jock all game against the Bears he would have lit it up. Great mobility, great arm, and great accuracy.

5.) Phillip Rivers

What do you think?

lex
09-14-2009, 11:04 PM
Its a fine list (but not F-I-N-E, fine...that would be weird) given that its highly subjective to begin with.

SoDak Bronco
09-14-2009, 11:05 PM
tough to argue..i think big ben with a decent oline is top 5

Gcver2ver3
09-14-2009, 11:06 PM
1.) Drew Brees - The guy is getting better and better which is hard to believe.

2.) Tom Brady - Unreal placement on his 2 strikes to Watson tonight.

3.) Peyton Manning - Understanding and dedication to the game is amazing.

4.) Aaron Rodgers - If you think this is a reach, I will pull this thread again by the end of the year. If Ogunleye wasn't in his jock all game against the Bears he would have lit it up. Great mobility, great arm, and great accuracy.

5.) Phillip Rivers

What do you think?

why rivers?...because he can throw a dump pass to darren sproles?...

tsiguy96
09-14-2009, 11:08 PM
1. brees
2. brady (for every good throw tonight there was a bad one)
3. manning
4. rivers
4b. rodgers
5. big ben

kappys
09-14-2009, 11:09 PM
1) Brees
2) Brady
3) Manning
4) Matt Ryan - great job against a tough defense this week which shut down their running game and challenged him. He delivered
5) Aaron Rodgers

Bronco LB52
09-14-2009, 11:16 PM
1. Cutler
2. Manning
3. Brady
4. Brees
5. Rivers

Taco John
09-14-2009, 11:22 PM
1. Cutler
2. Manning
3. Brady
4. Brees
5. Rivers


I like this list but I would have added Orton in between Brady and Brees. Brandstarter would have made the list a #5 if it weren't for Phildo's performance tonight.

BroncoBuff
09-14-2009, 11:23 PM
What do you think?

1. Brady
2. Peyton
3. Brees
4. Warner
5. Rivers

bpc
09-14-2009, 11:24 PM
1. Manning (1 championship)
2. Brady (3 championships)
3. Big Ben (2 championships)
4. Drew Brees
5. Phillip Rivers

mr007
09-14-2009, 11:25 PM
why rivers?...because he can throw a dump pass to darren sproles?...

Actually because he's a very accurate passer, makes good decisions, and does pretty damn well under pressure. Oakland was playing some great D tonight.

Great input though, thanks!

tsiguy96
09-14-2009, 11:27 PM
1. Manning (1 championship)
2. Brady (3 championships)
3. Big Ben (2 championships)
4. Drew Brees
5. Phillip Rivers

yea, 5000 yards and ridiculous TD:INT ratio as well as almost 29 ppg, why would brees EVER be above big ive never thrown 3k yard ben

Popps
09-14-2009, 11:28 PM
1. http://www.purdue.edu/jumbo/covers/covers_medium/18_kyle_orton.jpg


2. http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/players/11/08/first.person1114/t1_orton.jpg

3. http://www.picapp.com/ftp/Preview/0059/kyle_orton_Picapp_59790.jpg

4. http://nbc5streetteam.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/orton-beard.jpg

5. http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/104269/Kyle_Orton_2_dl.jpg

Popps
09-14-2009, 11:31 PM
I had Drew Brees at #5, but changed my mind.

Gcver2ver3
09-14-2009, 11:34 PM
Actually because he's a very accurate passer, makes good decisions, and does pretty damn well under pressure. Oakland was playing some great D tonight.

Great input though, thanks!

all Rivers did was throw dump passes to sproles or hang a ball down the seam for Gates...

if you want to crown him for that...be my guest...

Archer81
09-14-2009, 11:35 PM
1. P Manning
2. T Brady
3. B Roethlisburger
4. E Manning
5. Drew Brees

:Broncos:

tsiguy96
09-14-2009, 11:37 PM
ill never understand how brees isnt #1 right now. manning choked in the playoffs, brady didnt even play last year, brees was a single reception away from breaking the NFL passing record while putting up almost 29 ppg, but his defense was comparable to ours so he didnt win a lot.

just because a QB wins a championship does NOT make him a better QB than others, for everyone who lists them by the number of championships they win or if they even win one or not.

Gcver2ver3
09-14-2009, 11:39 PM
1.Brady...
2.Brees...
3.P. Manning...
4.McNabb...
5.Rodgers...

BroncoBuff
09-14-2009, 11:49 PM
ill never understand how brees isnt #1 right now. manning choked in the playoffs, brady didnt even play last year, brees was a single reception away from breaking the NFL passing record while putting up almost 29 ppg, but his defense was comparable to ours so he didnt win a lot.

just because a QB wins a championship does NOT make him a better QB than others, for everyone who lists them by the number of championships they win or if they even win one or not.

By that logic, you think Favre is better than Elway, because Favre has all the records.

Brady is best, can't see how there's argument on that.

OBF1
09-14-2009, 11:53 PM
Brady
Brees
P Manning
McNabb
5a) Roethlisburger
5b) Rodgers

That Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco are not bad either, in a few years if they continue to progress they will be in the top 5 for sure

tsiguy96
09-14-2009, 11:56 PM
By that logic, you think Favre is better than Elway, because Favre has all the records.

Brady is best, can't see how there's argument on that.

brady has always had a respectable defense to help. the argument with cutler is he doesnt put up the points, he puts up the yards. thats a very big problem. brees puts up massive points almost every single week, and now that he has a legit DC on the team, people will finally start respecting him for being ridiculously good as he smokes teams left and right this year.

BroncoBuff
09-15-2009, 12:07 AM
That Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco are not bad either, in a few years if they continue to progress they will be in the top 5 for sure

Maybe add Mark Sanchez to that list soon ... just watched the extended highlights, he is one cool kid. Very confident, a natural leader.

BroncoBuff
09-15-2009, 12:10 AM
brady has always had a respectable defense to help. the argument with cutler is he doesnt put up the points, he puts up the yards. thats a very big problem. brees puts up massive points almost every single week, and now that he has a legit DC on the team, people will finally start respecting him for being ridiculously good as he smokes teams left and right this year.

You just argued against yourself on one point ... you credited defense a lot for a QB's success. The two full years Jay started, his defense was cumulatve #32 in the league.

Taco John
09-15-2009, 12:19 AM
Questions like this make me wonder things like, "I wonder how many Superbowls the Patriots would have if it was Manning under center, instead of Tom Brady all those years?"

Of course, it's a question that is inadvertantly disrespectful of Tom Brady. Tom has certainly claimed his spot among the NFL all time greats just for how he handles himself in a clutch situation.

I think this (the clutch situation) is where Manning tends to fall down. I think that you have to give the nod to Brady, just for the fact that he is the one with all of the Superbowls.

But then, another question pops in my head... "I wonder how many Superbowls Brees would win with the Patriots all these years."

Discussion boards. Keeping me up with pointless minutea since 1995.

lex
09-15-2009, 12:23 AM
Questions like this make me wonder things like, "I wonder how many Superbowls the Patriots would have if it was Manning under center, instead of Tom Brady all those years?"

Of course, it's a question that is inadvertantly disrespectful of Tom Brady. Tom has certainly claimed his spot among the NFL all time greats just for how he handles himself in a clutch situation.

I think this (the clutch situation) is where Manning tends to fall down. I think that you have to give the nod to Brady, just for the fact that he is the one with all of the Superbowls.

But then, another question pops in my head... "I wonder how many Superbowls Brees would win with the Patriots all these years."

Discussion boards. Keeping me up with pointless minutea since 1995.

It makes me wonder how many championships either would have won had they played in the 90s when there were more elite QBs. Since Elway/Marino/Young/Aikman retired, there has been a dearth of elite QBs.

BroncoBuff
09-15-2009, 01:59 AM
You could make a very very good argument that Tom Brady is the best QB ever... he's not, but it's close.

Lost in the praise for Viniateri's winning field goals were the clock-beater drives that put him in range ... Brady won a SB first year as a starter ... has won two more ... then nearly a fourth (in just seven years), that one after a 16-0 season with 50 TD passes.

Good argument (kinda shames Brees :nono:)

BroncoMan4ever
09-15-2009, 01:59 AM
1.) Drew Brees - The guy is getting better and better which is hard to believe.

2.) Tom Brady - Unreal placement on his 2 strikes to Watson tonight.

3.) Peyton Manning - Understanding and dedication to the game is amazing.

4.) Aaron Rodgers - If you think this is a reach, I will pull this thread again by the end of the year. If Ogunleye wasn't in his jock all game against the Bears he would have lit it up. Great mobility, great arm, and great accuracy.

5.) Phillip Rivers

What do you think?

i like the list and have no problem with it, but i would have a few changes.

Peyton is number 1. if tomorrow i could start a franchise and take any QB in the league to be the man i build my team around, it would be Manning.

Brees is playing incredibly and with a legit defense and some balance and consistent help in the running game he would have the wins to show how good he really is, so he is number 2

Rodgers is the best young QB in the league right now and is deserving of number 3

Rivers is number 4. he is a top flight QB in this league. as much as it pains and irks me to admit, he is elite

Brady is 5. Cassel coming in and getting that team 11 wins shows he isn't as irreplaceable as so many make him out to be, plus coming off injury, he isn't worthy of being at the top of this list. however, you have to give respect to a 3 time super bowl champ and MVP, so he gets the number 5 spot.

Warner, super bowl winner, MVP, and even at his age is still playing damn well

Ryan, is coming into his own and with another year or 2 will jump to the top 5

McNabb, regardless of what Phily fans say about him every year, there are very few teams in the league that wouldn't love to have him leading their offense

Romo has great stats and plays pretty well, just has the tendency to make the stupid mistake occasionally

Big Ben rounds out the top 10, even though i have only seen him as a game manager for most of his career, at the end of the game he is the most clutch QB in the game, and has multiple rings

Broncos_OTM
09-15-2009, 04:46 AM
yea, 5000 yards and ridiculous TD:INT ratio as well as almost 29 ppg, why would brees EVER be above big ive never thrown 3k yard ben

hey **** face stats aint everything, its ok to judge by rings. obviously the ultimate goal is titles. you hear it all the time. now if he said who is the best passer. or scrambler.

chanesaw
09-15-2009, 05:37 AM
1. Manning
2. Brees
3. Brady
4. Big Ben
5. Cutler

azbroncfan
09-15-2009, 05:44 AM
Manning, Brady, Brees, Big Ben, Rivers.

jmz313
09-15-2009, 05:51 AM
Brady, P Manning, Brees, Rivers, Eli Manning.

Big Ben is has 2 *'s, both SBs have big ol' BS question marks with what game the officals were watching. not to mention he's a really just a really good care taker in a Power football team. Without that D, Big Ben doesnt have a playoff win. He has done well and would put him 6 or 7.

Eli has really come into his own since the giants were made his team (tiki and shockey gone). He distributes the ball as well as anyone and throws down field accurately. He had an amazing game against the skins. I'm still giving credit for his comeback in 2005 against us too. great poise.

slyinky
09-15-2009, 06:48 AM
According to Don Smith it's:
1. Tony Romo
2. Drew Brees
3. Brodie Croyle
4. Trent Edwards
5. Kyle Orton

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-15-2009, 06:52 AM
1. brees
2. brady (for every good throw tonight there was a bad one)
3. manning
4. big ben
5. Rodgers

/fixed

TonyR
09-15-2009, 06:59 AM
1. Cutler
2. Manning
3. Brady
4. Brees
5. Rivers

Perhaps you're being facetious but Jay Cutler doesn't currently belong anywhere near the top 5, and probably not top 10, and there's really no argument to be made otherwise.

cmhargrove
09-15-2009, 07:14 AM
No Brandstater?

Rock Chalk
09-15-2009, 07:24 AM
You could make a very very good argument that Tom Brady is the best QB ever... he's not, but it's close.

Lost in the praise for Viniateri's winning field goals were the clock-beater drives that put him in range ... Brady won a SB first year as a starter ... has won two more ... then nearly a fourth (in just seven years), that one after a 16-0 season with 50 TD passes.

Good argument (kinda shames Brees :nono:)

No it doesn't shame Brees.

Winning championships is about the team around a QB.

Brees has a far FAR less talented TEAM around him. He has some weapons on offense, but defensively they aren't even close to those Patriot SB teams and defense is what won them those championships. Defense slowed down the Greatest Show On Turf. No way Brady is able to outscore teh Rams in a shootout.

Brees, right now, is the best QB in the NFL. He's smart, accurate, and can pick apart just about any defense in the NFL. His team isn't nearly championship quality but he is every bit as talented as any other QB in the NFL.

1) Brees
2) Peyton Manning
3) Tom Brady
4) Phillip Rivers
5) McNabb

As a QB, Big Ben isn't the greatest. He is a terrific leader though. Too often in games, Ben doesn't do anything until the half or game is winding down. If we were talking about clutch QBs, Big Ben is definitely in the top 5, but overall he is merely top 10.

Some up and comers: Flacco, Ryan, Rogers.

Sanchez still has a long ways to go but he is off to a good start. IF he can replicate a 2008 Matt Ryan type of year he will definitely join the up and comers list. One game however is not a big enough sample size to put him in there.

barryr
09-15-2009, 07:47 AM
The Packers are going to have troubles this year unless their RT spot is upgraded. Or maybe haveto keep a TE on that side to help. That tackle was getting beat badly and it wasn't like the DE was making these fancy pass rush moves either.

tsiguy96
09-15-2009, 07:52 AM
hey **** face stats aint everything, its ok to judge by rings. obviously the ultimate goal is titles. you hear it all the time. now if he said who is the best passer. or scrambler.

umm yea im talking about best quarterback, not QB with most rings. the correlation isnt perfect. **** face.

TailgateNut
09-15-2009, 07:56 AM
1. Cutler
2. Manning
3. Brady
4. Brees
5. Rivers


Hilarious!

Cutler doesn't belong in the same room with Brees and Manning

tsiguy96
09-15-2009, 07:58 AM
You just argued against yourself on one point ... you credited defense a lot for a QB's success. The two full years Jay started, his defense was cumulatve #32 in the league.

ummm yea clearly. jay cutler never put the points up that a winning QB does. i very clearly stated that. and not a LOT of QBs success, ultimately winning a super bowl comes down to the team, and brees IS his entire team.

if you are talking about purely QB, the guy who almost broke the passing record with a ton of TDs and almost 29 PPG (thats POINTS PER GAME, the thing that should helps win, not yards) is the best. brady of course is the big name, but he sat out 15.5 games last year, he needs to prove hes the best again. what else does brees need to do to clearly prove how good of a QB he is? "win"? thats not decided by the QB alone, especially when they lose games after scoring 30+ points. ive never put the losing as a knock on jay cutler, but jay cutler clearly had problems with scoring points, drew brees is ridiculous.

lex
09-15-2009, 08:25 AM
You could make a very very good argument that Tom Brady is the best QB ever... he's not, but it's close.

Lost in the praise for Viniateri's winning field goals were the clock-beater drives that put him in range ... Brady won a SB first year as a starter ... has won two more ... then nearly a fourth (in just seven years), that one after a 16-0 season with 50 TD passes.

Good argument (kinda shames Brees :nono:)


In fairness, Brady may have had a better career but that doesnt mean it cant mean that Brees isnt better as of right now.

Rock Chalk
09-15-2009, 08:32 AM
In fairness, Brady may have had a better career but that doesnt mean it cant mean that Brees isnt better as of right now.

This is why I didn't put you on ignore.

Despite being the ultimate douche on this board, from time to time you do have a coherent logical though.

ShutDownPoster
09-15-2009, 08:36 AM
Drew Brees is the most underrated out of the elite list of QB's so by virtue of the law of ESPN circle jerks, that would put him at the top. I mean really, the guy almost broke Marino's passing yards record last year, and he's 'short and cannot see over his line' :-)

lex
09-15-2009, 08:40 AM
Drew Brees is the most underrated out of the elite list of QB's so by virtue of the law of ESPN circle jerks, that would put him at the top. I mean really, the guy almost broke Marino's passing yards record last year, and he's 'short and cannot see over his line' :-)


The amazing thing is not that Brees almost broke the record but that no one has broken that record yet with all that has made the NFL so pro-QB. You cant even breathe on the QB anymore.

Inkana7
09-15-2009, 08:42 AM
Roethlisberger blows. It's not hard to win games when you only have to score 13 points to win. He's a big armed douche who thinks he can run around for 20 seconds.

WolfpackGuy
09-15-2009, 08:42 AM
Hmm, the Saints finished 8-8 too last year...

lex
09-15-2009, 08:47 AM
This is why I didn't put you on ignore.

Despite being the ultimate douche on this board, from time to time you do have a coherent logical though.

First of all, I'm not seeking approval (perhaps you couldnt tell). Secondly, whether or not you disagree with me has little to do with whether or not my posts are baseless or lacking coherency--you simply disagree with them. Optimism does not have sole jurisdiction on coherency/reason. Thats just silly.

hookemhess
09-15-2009, 08:57 AM
1. Tom Brady - He's got the hardware and the numbers. Would be top 2 greatest if he had won vs. the Giants.
2. Peyton Manning - Possibly the best technical QB of a generation. The prototype.
3. Drew Brees - Best QB of the last couple years. I'd take Brady/Manning over Brees because of their winning ways, but Brees is a monster passer.

--huge dropoff--

4. Ben Roethlisberger - Proven winner can improvise with the best of them.
5. Donavon McNabb - Playmaker that always seems to escape trouble to make a play. Decent enough arm. Has won a bunch of games.
5a. Philip Rivers - Tough leader that finds ways to win. Makes pretty tough throws consistently.

tsiguy96
09-15-2009, 09:04 AM
1. Tom Brady - He's got the hardware and the numbers. Would be top 2 greatest if he had won vs. the Giants.
2. Peyton Manning - Possibly the best technical QB of a generation. The prototype.
3. Drew Brees - Best QB of the last couple years. I'd take Brady/Manning over Brees because of their winning ways, but Brees is a monster passer.

--huge dropoff--

4. Ben Roethlisberger - Proven winner can improvise with the best of them.
5. Donavon McNabb - Playmaker that always seems to escape trouble to make a play. Decent enough arm. Has won a bunch of games.
5a. Philip Rivers - Tough leader that finds ways to win. Makes pretty tough throws consistently.

again, winning is a team game. brees does everything he possibly can to make his team win i.e score 29ppg. not his fault his D was nearly as bad as hte broncos D. but i agree there is a pretty good dropoff, and now that the saints have a D maybe brees will start getting some respect.

hookemhess
09-15-2009, 09:09 AM
again, winning is a team game. brees does everything he possibly can to make his team win i.e score 29ppg. not his fault his D was nearly as bad as hte broncos D>

I agree. But I'm of the school of thought that the most telling statistics for QBs are wins. A lot goes into the QB position other than passing, ie game management.

TonyR
09-15-2009, 09:13 AM
...from time to time you do have a coherent logical though.

He does surprise every now and again.

toad
09-15-2009, 09:15 AM
why rivers?...because he can throw a dump pass to darren sproles?...

He was, statistically speaking, the best QB in the NFL last year....tied Brees w/ 34 TDs, had over 4000 yards, and had a rating over 105 for the season.

36-18 as a starter, led team to playoffs the past 3 seasons, seems to have lots of intangibles, etc.

I'm just saying.....

Its easy to hate on Rivers around here because he's on a rival team, sometimes comes across as an a-hole, and has a funky delivery/technique.....but you can't argue the results.

oubronco
09-15-2009, 09:15 AM
1. http://www.purdue.edu/jumbo/covers/covers_medium/18_kyle_orton.jpg


2. http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/players/11/08/first.person1114/t1_orton.jpg

3. http://www.picapp.com/ftp/Preview/0059/kyle_orton_Picapp_59790.jpg

4. http://nbc5streetteam.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/orton-beard.jpg

5. http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/104269/Kyle_Orton_2_dl.jpg

He didn't say Bottom 5 ;D

Peoples Champ
09-15-2009, 09:43 AM
You just argued against yourself on one point ... you credited defense a lot for a QB's success. The two full years Jay started, his defense was cumulatve #32 in the league.



Yes,

Now Jay Cutler has a decent Defense in Chicago, one who even scored a safety for him, and he still throws 4 picks for the loss.

55CrushEm
09-15-2009, 09:48 AM
1. Manning (1 championship)
2. Brady (3 championships)
3. Big Ben (2 championships)
4. Drew Brees
5. Phillip Rivers

F Big Ben and his 2 rings.....the Pittsburgh defense won those games. His defense bails him out of a lot of his mistakes.

Popcorn Sutton
09-15-2009, 10:07 AM
all Rivers did was throw dump passes to sproles or hang a ball down the seam for Gates...

if you want to crown him for that...be my guest...

???

Sproles and Gates combined for a 1,000 yards receiving last year. Rivers threw for 4,000 yards, had 34 touchdowns tied for the NFL lead and had the highest QB rating in the NFL at 105.

You sure your hate isn't fogging your point of view on this?

BroncoMan4ever
09-15-2009, 10:21 AM
By that logic, you think Favre is better than Elway, because Favre has all the records.

Brady is best, can't see how there's argument on that.

Favre needed additional seasons to break what Elway did. goes back to my argument that a player can break any record if he can stay in the game for long enough.

BroncoMan4ever
09-15-2009, 10:24 AM
Hmm, the Saints finished 8-8 too last year...

the Saints went through the same thing Denver did. ****ty defense and a lot of injuries. add in Brees was without his best WR last season and his year was even more incredible.

azbroncfan
09-15-2009, 10:29 AM
As a QB, Big Ben isn't the greatest. He is a terrific leader though. Too often in games, Ben doesn't do anything until the half or game is winding down. If we were talking about clutch QBs, Big Ben is definitely in the top 5, but overall he is merely top 10.


That analysis sounds an awful lot like a guy that Denver had for 17 years behind center.

Dagmar
09-15-2009, 10:35 AM
1. Brady
2. Peyton
3. Brees
4. Warner
5. Rivers

No Simms?

Gcver2ver3
09-15-2009, 11:11 AM
???

Sproles and Gates combined for a 1,000 yards receiving last year. Rivers threw for 4,000 yards, had 34 touchdowns tied for the NFL lead and had the highest QB rating in the NFL at 105.

You sure your hate isn't fogging your point of view on this?

i was referring to last nights game...

everyone giving him props for driving his team down the field in the last minute eben though the Raiders played their LBs 10yds off the LOS...

Gcver2ver3
09-15-2009, 11:13 AM
He was, statistically speaking, the best QB in the NFL last year....tied Brees w/ 34 TDs, had over 4000 yards, and had a rating over 105 for the season.

36-18 as a starter, led team to playoffs the past 3 seasons, seems to have lots of intangibles, etc.

I'm just saying.....

Its easy to hate on Rivers around here because he's on a rival team, sometimes comes across as an a-hole, and has a funky delivery/technique.....but you can't argue the results.

Rivers is a good QB...but not top 5...

i'd put prolly have him battling for 6 or 7 with Kurt Warner....

leading his team to the playoffs hasn't been hard, he plays in the AFCW...

the Chargers were 8-8 last year....he's a good QB, but not elite...

BroncoBuff
09-15-2009, 11:14 AM
No Simms?

http://www.frontiernet.net/~rcowart/wednesday2.jpg

Wait ...

Punisher
09-15-2009, 11:40 AM
1.) Drew Brees - The guy is getting better and better which is hard to believe.

2.) Tom Brady - Unreal placement on his 2 strikes to Watson tonight.

3.) Peyton Manning - Understanding and dedication to the game is amazing.

4.) Aaron Rodgers - If you think this is a reach, I will pull this thread again by the end of the year. If Ogunleye wasn't in his jock all game against the Bears he would have lit it up. Great mobility, great arm, and great accuracy.

5.) Phillip Rivers

What do you think?

Brees
Brady
Manning
Rodgers
Big Ben
Eli Manning
Matt Ryan
Kurt Warner
Cutler
Romo
Rivers

Rock Chalk
09-15-2009, 11:46 AM
That analysis sounds an awful lot like a guy that Denver had for 17 years behind center.

No, that doesn't sound anything like Elway. Elway had some bad games where he had to pull a rabbit out of his ass sure, but he had many more games where he kicked ass all the way through.

And in no way could Ben have done what Elway did with what Elway was working with for 13 of his NFL years.

Popcorn Sutton
09-15-2009, 11:47 AM
http://www.frontiernet.net/~rcowart/wednesday2.jpg

Wait ...

Buff, I have a theory. Just a theory but I think it has some validity. Orton is just ugly. He's a goofy looking dude with a smug looking face and a less than athletic frame. He's had many pictures taken of him drinking profusely and there's that hideous neck beard.

Simms on the other hand is your All-American good looking guy with a great attitude and a clean reputation. He is a bit more athletic looking and has a professional pedigree.

However, if you compare the two careers on the field (when it counts during the regular season) they have almost identical stat lines. Sure, Simms looked good against the San Fran second teamers but you aren't really basing your entire opinion on that are you? When it counts, he hasn't done anything to prove he is a better QB.

I remember a thread a long time ago where you were sour on Orton before training camp even started. Do you think it's possible that your perception of the two players has more to do with your overall opinion of the two people rather than how well they actually perform on the field?

Popcorn Sutton
09-15-2009, 11:47 AM
BTW, Buff. I'm not singling you out here. You just seem like the most reasonable of the anti-Orton crowd to discuss this theory.

Rock Chalk
09-15-2009, 11:48 AM
First of all, I'm not seeking approval (perhaps you couldnt tell). Secondly, whether or not you disagree with me has little to do with whether or not my posts are baseless or lacking coherency--you simply disagree with them. Optimism does not have sole jurisdiction on coherency/reason. Thats just silly.

No, your argument that jerseys = superstar is retarded and indicative of the bulk of your posts.

BroncoBuff
09-15-2009, 12:09 PM
BTW, Buff. I'm not singling you out here. You just seem like the most reasonable of the anti-Orton crowd to discuss this theory.
Fair enough. You are correct that the one half against SF is a very small sample size. And actually there might be something to the "good looks" theory ... I first really liked Simms watching him on the Ticket in 2005. My girlfriend just adores Gruden (:oyvey:), so she would always get me to turn on the Bucs during the early games, and that was fun.

But there are also hard facts I base this on ... Orton is not an exciting guy, not a leader. I don't like timid quarterbacks, I prefer fiery guys who can scramble and always look upfield for a home run, and Simms is that. He has a very animated "field general" presence out there. And that comforts me :~ohyah!:

I don't think that - even had he not been hurt - even had he continued to outplay Kyle - that he'd have been named starter. Josh's mind was made up, and that's his call. Right now there's too much good mojo to even think about making a change, but Simms will get his chance at some point, and my pimping skills will be put to the test :pimp:

Rabb
09-15-2009, 12:15 PM
I will never get the love for Big Ben

Mountain Bronco
09-15-2009, 12:24 PM
Brady and Big Ben and then all the rest. In the immortal words of Al the crip keeper Davis, Just Win Baby.... Seriously, winning matters the most and these two do whatever it takes. If they have to score a ton of points they do, if they have to protect the football they do.

Brees can have all the numbers in the world until they win something it don't matter. Ask Dan the number man Marino.

Popcorn Sutton
09-15-2009, 12:33 PM
Fair enough. You are correct that the one half against SF is a very small sample size. And actually there might be something to the "good looks" theory ... I first really liked Simms watching him on the Ticket in 2005. My girlfriend just adores Gruden (:oyvey:), so she would always get me to turn on the Bucs during the early games, and that was fun.

But there are also hard facts I base this on ... Orton is not an exciting guy, not a leader. I don't like timid quarterbacks, I prefer fiery guys who can scramble and always look upfield for a home run, and Simms is that. He has a very animated "field general" presence out there. And that comforts me :~ohyah!:

I don't think that - even had he not been hurt - even had he continued to outplay Kyle - that he'd have been named starter. Josh's mind was made up, and that's his call. Right now there's too much good mojo to even think about making a change, but Simms will get his chance at some point, and my pimping skills will be put to the test :pimp:

I will admit that he has looked very timid out there. I've used the word "pressing" more than one time in the last few weeks. I can see McDaniels tiring of this real soon. It's almost like he's given him the benefit of the doubt to this point but his leash is getting tighter.

If Simms becomes the starter at some point, I will be the first to support him. He is a good dude and he has had some tough breaks. I'll never forget the game he played with a ruptured spleen. I'm just glad he's on the roster.

boltaneer
09-15-2009, 12:42 PM
Brady and Big Ben and then all the rest. In the immortal words of Al the crip keeper Davis, Just Win Baby.... Seriously, winning matters the most and these two do whatever it takes. If they have to score a ton of points they do, if they have to protect the football they do.

Brees can have all the numbers in the world until they win something it don't matter. Ask Dan the number man Marino.

In defense of Brees, his defenses has sucked in New Orleans so the fact that he doesn't have a ring isn't such of a big issue with me. There are plenty of great QB who have played who didn't get a ring, such as Marino, as you mentioned.

However, the knock I have against Brees dating back to his time in SD is that he beats up on the pansy teams but can never get the job done against the big boys. And the guy just doesn't rise up to the occasion during clutch moments.

But having said that, he's still a great QB and I would have him in my top five:

1. Brady
2. Manning
3. Ben
4. Rivers
5. Brees

Just missed:

- McNabb, Warner - These guys are still very good but seem to be on the decline
- Rodgers - Definitely on the way up
- Romo - Very good QB. He just needs to step it up in January.
- Ryan - Give him another year or two and he should be knocking on the door of the top five.

BroncoMan4ever
09-15-2009, 01:00 PM
That analysis sounds an awful lot like a guy that Denver had for 17 years behind center.

don't even try to compare Ben to Elway. you might as well be comparing a kid with polio to a bodybuilder.

Ben has never had to carry a team on his shoulders, he has a defense that allows 13 a game. any QB in the league can look like a world beater when he only needs to lead an offense to 14 a game.

John carried the Broncos on his back. and it wasn't just that he was clutch because of late game scores by the opposition. Reeves entire gameplan was play conservative until the 4th quarter and then unleash John and hope he can have another miracle. Ben is just playing inept football most of the game and turns it on late. there is a big difference.

BroncoBuff
09-15-2009, 01:07 PM
Ben has never had to carry a team on his shoulders, he has a defense that allows 13 a game. any QB in the league can look like a world beater when he only needs to lead an offense to 14 a game.
Correct ... but do you apply the same standard to Jay?

In his two full years as a starter, he was saddled with the (2-year cumulative) worst defense in the league.

Just for fun ... what do you think Jay would've done on the Steelers the last three years?

BroncoBuff
09-15-2009, 01:09 PM
from time to time you do have a coherent logical though.

By that you mean, from time to time he agrees with you, right?

azbroncfan
09-15-2009, 01:24 PM
don't even try to compare Ben to Elway. you might as well be comparing a kid with polio to a bodybuilder.

Ben has never had to carry a team on his shoulders, he has a defense that allows 13 a game. any QB in the league can look like a world beater when he only needs to lead an offense to 14 a game.

John carried the Broncos on his back. and it wasn't just that he was clutch because of late game scores by the opposition. Reeves entire gameplan was play conservative until the 4th quarter and then unleash John and hope he can have another miracle. Ben is just playing inept football most of the game and turns it on late. there is a big difference.

I was just pointing out how they both had the knack to play shi**y during a game but still be clutch at the end to win the ball game. Winning is a knack you have or you don't and Big Ben just like Elway has that knack. If all the wins were because of Pitt's D then the Stewarts, ODonnell's, and Maddox's would be superbowl champs.

BroncoMan4ever
09-15-2009, 01:24 PM
Correct ... but do you apply the same standard to Jay?

In his two full years as a starter, he was saddled with the (2-year cumulative) worst defense in the league.

Just for fun ... what do you think Jay would've done on the Steelers the last three years?

depends, does Jay still get free reign to throw the ball however and where ever he wants? is Jay still the same as he was in Denver and Chicago? stupid throws into coverage, bad attitude? or is he reeled in and playing within the system like Ben? because if he is still playing loose and stupid they wouldn't have won the super bowl last year, but reeled in and in the system and the results are the same as with Ben.

although that is an unfair way to look at things. Orton in Pittsburgh with that defense is a super bowl winner.

and yes i look at it the same way with Jay. he may have had a bad defense, but he had the same bad defense all year long and had 8 wins to 5 losses. he choked down the stretch. when the team neededhim to be at his best or play clutch he couldn't do it.

BroncoMan4ever
09-15-2009, 01:28 PM
I was just pointing out how they both had the knack to play shi**y during a game but still be clutch at the end to win the ball game. Winning is a knack you have or you don't and Big Ben just like Elway has that knack. If all the wins were because of Pitt's D then the Stewarts, ODonnell's, and Maddox's would be superbowl champs.

good point, it's just Elway wasn't playing ****ty early in games like Ben has a tendency to do. he was just reeled in the majority of a game until Reeves had no option but to unleash him and let him go to work. Ben is clutch late in games, but he wouldn't need to be if he didn't suck early in them, because with that defense there is really no reason why he should be needing late game heroics to win. Elway was clutch late in games because he had to be, not because he couldn't get it going early, but because Reeves wouldn't let him play his way until there were no other options late in games.

azbroncfan
09-15-2009, 01:43 PM
good point, it's just Elway wasn't playing ****ty early in games like Ben has a tendency to do. he was just reeled in the majority of a game until Reeves had no option but to unleash him and let him go to work. Ben is clutch late in games, but he wouldn't need to be if he didn't suck early in them, because with that defense there is really no reason why he should be needing late game heroics to win. Elway was clutch late in games because he had to be, not because he couldn't get it going early, but because Reeves wouldn't let him play his way until there were no other options late in games.

BS Elway had plenty of bad games that he stole a win out of. Superbowl 32 is one of them.

JJJ
09-15-2009, 02:59 PM
ill never understand how brees isnt #1 right now. manning choked in the playoffs, brady didnt even play last year, brees was a single reception away from breaking the NFL passing record while putting up almost 29 ppg, but his defense was comparable to ours so he didnt win a lot.

just because a QB wins a championship does NOT make him a better QB than others, for everyone who lists them by the number of championships they win or if they even win one or not.

Brees has been a chokaholic in the playoffs his whole career so far.

1. Brady - 3 rings
2. Big Ben - 2 rings
3. P. Manning - 1 ring
4. E. Manning - 1 ring. No just kidding. The guy is dufus.
4. Brees
5. Rivers

Inkana7
09-15-2009, 05:40 PM
Correct ... but do you apply the same standard to Jay?

In his two full years as a starter, he was saddled with the (2-year cumulative) worst defense in the league.

Just for fun ... what do you think Jay would've done on the Steelers the last three years?

Buff, we just saw what Cutler could do with a D.