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View Full Version : Biggest Problem with the Offense: No Kuper


Drek
09-13-2009, 05:29 PM
Did any one else see just how obvious that was? Harris didn't look comfortable. At least one sack and one swatted ball was a direct result of Wiegmann and Hochstein looking out of sync.

Russ did a good job filling in, but the OL, specifically the interior, was giving up more penetration than they did much of last year and a few defenders made it through nearly untouched because of miscommunication. Even Moreno suffered because his clipping penalty was the result of him going low the same instant Hochstein engaged above the waist.

When Kuper comes back its going to be a nice kick start to this offense, hopefully its very soon.

iDENVER
09-13-2009, 05:30 PM
anyone have any idea when he is supposed to come back?

SoCalBronco
09-13-2009, 05:31 PM
anyone have any idea when he is supposed to come back?

My understanding is that Khan has been giving him deep tissue massages daily so it shouldn't be too long.;D

Popps
09-13-2009, 05:31 PM
Hope you're right. We did give up a bit more pressure than usual, and the holes for the RBs weren't really there.

Cinci's D is no pushover, though. I think they were 12th overall last year, and added a few pieces this year.

theAPAOps5
09-13-2009, 05:33 PM
Actually I think the biggest problem may be Hamilton. Don't get me wrong he is good but he is not suited for the more traditional running game, neither is Weigmann. Missing Kuper just compounded that.

Borks147
09-13-2009, 05:52 PM
Actually I think the biggest problem may be Hamilton. Don't get me wrong he is good but he is not suited for the more traditional running game, neither is Weigmann. Missing Kuper just compounded that.

yeah throughout the entire game, every time Hamilton screwed up I could imagine McD saying "oh he is so gone"

Drek
09-13-2009, 06:00 PM
Actually I think the biggest problem may be Hamilton. Don't get me wrong he is good but he is not suited for the more traditional running game, neither is Weigmann. Missing Kuper just compounded that.

A lot of the calls on Hamilton where BS, he didn't look great but he wasn't bad, especially for having to take on a beast like Domata Peko.

Wiegmann spent much of his career in a traditional blocking system, he isn't a product of the ZBS and will be fine.

Our big problem is that Cincy's front line is two 280 pound DEs, a 305 pound UT, and a 318 pound NT, all with good power. We needed an interior line working as a cohesive unit and we didn't have that without Kuper.

He wasn't put on PUP or anything so it can't be too bad. Hopefully he's ready to go for next week, but if he's just ready for Dallas at home I'd be more than happy with that.

bronco militia
09-13-2009, 06:02 PM
hamilton looked like the '2004 hamilton' in todays game

Hulamau
09-13-2009, 06:03 PM
Hope you're right. We did give up a bit more pressure than usual, and the holes for the RBs weren't really there.

Cinci's D is no pushover, though. I think they were 12th overall last year, and added a few pieces this year.

Cincys D played a good game today. Swarming to the ball and tight coverage too.

theAPAOps5
09-13-2009, 06:08 PM
A lot of the calls on Hamilton where BS, he didn't look great but he wasn't bad, especially for having to take on a beast like Domata Peko.

Wiegmann spent much of his career in a traditional blocking system, he isn't a product of the ZBS and will be fine.

Our big problem is that Cincy's front line is two 280 pound DEs, a 305 pound UT, and a 318 pound NT, all with good power. We needed an interior line working as a cohesive unit and we didn't have that without Kuper.

He wasn't put on PUP or anything so it can't be too bad. Hopefully he's ready to go for next week, but if he's just ready for Dallas at home I'd be more than happy with that.

Good point on Weigmann. As for Hamilton it wasn't so much the calls but he just got man handled a few times. I hope you are right though and it was just a great DL.

SureShot
09-13-2009, 06:10 PM
Is Kuper going to play QB when he comes back?

Drek
09-13-2009, 06:12 PM
Good point on Weigmann. As for Hamilton it wasn't so much the calls but he just got man handled a few times. I hope you are right though and it was just a great DL.

Not necessarily a great DL, but the kind of DL Hamilton has always struggled with, big and powerful. He got better at it last year, and having Kuper (who is strong enough to take most any DL on from a power standpoint) lets Wiegmann help Hamilton out more.

theAPAOps5
09-13-2009, 06:17 PM
Ok thanks for that Drek.

footstepsfrom#27
09-13-2009, 06:22 PM
Is Kuper going to play QB when he comes back?
Hey... :wiggle:

gyldenlove
09-13-2009, 07:03 PM
Kuper was missed in the run game, Hochstein didn't create any space and had problems handling Odom on a number of occasions.

On offense, Clady and Harris both did well, Graham was a bit iffy and missed at least two blocks that I saw but did have a couple of good catches.

Drek
09-13-2009, 07:08 PM
Hey... :wiggle:

Have to change it from the "Wildcat" to the "Ever **** with a Polar Bear, boy?" offense. :D

SoDak Bronco
09-13-2009, 08:19 PM
they showed him as starting in the opening lineups.

ZONA
09-13-2009, 08:28 PM
they showed him as starting in the opening lineups.

I know. Excellent job by that crew tonight huh. What frickin newbs man. It's not like he just got hurt yesterday and they didn't have time to change things.

broncocalijohn
09-13-2009, 08:34 PM
Is Kuper going to play QB when he comes back?

Yeah, I thought that was our biggest problem or Marshall dropping passes, but I guess I was wrong. :strong:

kupesdad
09-14-2009, 10:42 AM
I know that Chris hated being out as much as anyone but I think he probably would have reinjured his ankle if he had played. If he can play he definitely will. I expect to see him next week. What was strange was that they had him travel with the team so I think McD was playing head games and letting everyone think that he was starting. The thing about Chris is he has the same agent as Domata so they have worked out together.

bfoflcommish
09-14-2009, 10:44 AM
I know that Chris hated being out as much as anyone but I think he probably would have reinjured his ankle if he had played. If he can play he definitely will. I expect to see him next week. What was strange was that they had him travel with the team so I think McD was playing head games and letting everyone think that he was starting. The thing about Chris is he has the same agent as Domata so they have worked out together.


oh yeah how would you know?

hahahaha :rofl:;D:thumbs:

thx!

Bronco LB52
09-14-2009, 10:48 AM
Thanks for the update, kupesdad.

Back in November of 1996, David Diaz-Infante filled in for an injured Mark Schlereth at left guard and neutralized John Randle of the Vikings, who was an All-Pro at the top of his game. Hopefully with more time, Hochstein can be our Diaz-Infante.

Los Broncos
09-14-2009, 11:00 AM
they showed him as starting in the opening lineups.

I liked how they showed that but I clearly seen #71 out there.

broncosteven
09-14-2009, 11:03 AM
Was Olsen injured? Didn;t Olsen replace Chris in the last PS game?

I wasn't sure why Hockstein was in there. He may have known the offense but his play was lacking.

PRBronco
09-16-2009, 03:42 PM
Was Olsen injured? Didn;t Olsen replace Chris in the last PS game?

I wasn't sure why Hockstein was in there. He may have known the offense but his play was lacking.

I think generally they had Olsen filling Hamilton's spot in preseason...not sure how hard switching from left to right guard is though.

Any word on Kuper for Sunday?

ZONA
09-16-2009, 04:39 PM
Kuper was missed but we still could have had a much more productive day from the offense if we could have eliminated half the OL penalties as well as many of the dropped passes.

Elway777
09-16-2009, 05:41 PM
The biggest problem on offence is not having a deep passing threat to stetch the Defence.

_Oro_
09-16-2009, 07:06 PM
Lelie is available.

cmhargrove
09-17-2009, 06:48 AM
Did any one else see just how obvious that was? Harris didn't look comfortable. At least one sack and one swatted ball was a direct result of Wiegmann and Hochstein looking out of sync.

Russ did a good job filling in, but the OL, specifically the interior, was giving up more penetration than they did much of last year and a few defenders made it through nearly untouched because of miscommunication. Even Moreno suffered because his clipping penalty was the result of him going low the same instant Hochstein engaged above the waist.

When Kuper comes back its going to be a nice kick start to this offense, hopefully its very soon.

I agree about Kuper - we missed him quite a bit. There were several plays that were one block away from working.

The illegal chop block was crap. First, Moreno nailed that block so no one else should have assisted, and the high contact was almost a "catch" as the defender fell forward. That was a crappy call. Hopefully the O-line trusts Moreno's blocking in the future, because he's nailed all the blocks I have seen thus far.

Old Dude
09-17-2009, 07:21 AM
Kuper practiced "on a limited basis" yesterday.

http://www.timescall.com/sports_story.asp?id=18133

He also put in some practice late last week, but the staff apparently didn't think he was recovered sufficiently to play.

So it sounds like a day to day thing. We might see him Sunday, or we might have to wait another week. Even if he is able to play, you have to wonder how effective he'd be if he's not at 100%.

tsiguy96
09-17-2009, 07:41 AM
if he has a chance at reinjury he should wait til week 3. the raiders game will be tough this year, need him at 100%

broncosteven
09-17-2009, 09:53 AM
I agree about Kuper - we missed him quite a bit. There were several plays that were one block away from working.

The illegal chop block was crap. First, Moreno nailed that block so no one else should have assisted, and the high contact was almost a "catch" as the defender fell forward. That was a crappy call. Hopefully the O-line trusts Moreno's blocking in the future, because he's nailed all the blocks I have seen thus far.

I agree that Moreno's blocking is pretty good for a Rookie, I just hope he can improve on his 2 ypc.

Maybe Knowshon's blocking was the reason they took him so high?

cmhargrove
09-17-2009, 10:00 AM
I agree that Moreno's blocking is pretty good for a Rookie, I just hope he can improve on his 2 ypc.

Maybe Knowshon's blocking was the reason they took him so high?

Nope - give him some patience.

I think we will get to love Moreno soon enough. You have to say one of three things - either the Bengal's run D is pretty good, or our O-line needs some more work on run blocking, or the play calls need a little work.

Moreno was working hard, but most of his plays were blown up in the backfield. That's not a good thing for the run game. I believe the coaches will find ways to get better blocking, or just get the ball to Moreno in space. I honestly believe that Moreno will be a special player by mid-season, but he will need better blocking.

broncosteven
09-17-2009, 10:09 AM
Nope - give him some patience.

I think we will get to love Moreno soon enough. You have to say one of three things - either the Bengal's run D is pretty good, or our O-line needs some more work on run blocking, or the play calls need a little work.

Moreno was working hard, but most of his plays were blown up in the backfield. That's not a good thing for the run game. I believe the coaches will find ways to get better blocking, or just get the ball to Moreno in space. I honestly believe that Moreno will be a special player by mid-season, but he will need better blocking.

I read or heard somewhere, maybe MHR, that Moreno was running sideways too much and not taking the 1st cut and moving up field.

He is young, I saw a burst before he got hurt but Buck was able to find the holes when he got the ball.

I do wonder if KM's blocking in addition to his running made him so valuable.

enjolras
09-18-2009, 12:43 AM
What is the status of Kupers injury anyways? I know he's practiced a bit this week.. when is he due back?

UberBroncoMan
09-18-2009, 05:15 AM
Hope you're right. We did give up a bit more pressure than usual, and the holes for the RBs weren't really there.

Cinci's D is no pushover, though. I think they were 12th overall last year, and added a few pieces this year.

Marvin Lewis isn't an idiot when it comes to the D side of the ball either... I honestly expect Cinci to be a top 10 defense this year.

UberBroncoMan
09-18-2009, 05:16 AM
Kuper practiced "on a limited basis" yesterday.

http://www.timescall.com/sports_story.asp?id=18133

He also put in some practice late last week, but the staff apparently didn't think he was recovered sufficiently to play.

So it sounds like a day to day thing. We might see him Sunday, or we might have to wait another week. Even if he is able to play, you have to wonder how effective he'd be if he's not at 100%.

He didn't give up a sack last year and he broke his hand two times (once during training camp and again during the season)... I think it was two different hands too...

Beantown Bronco
09-18-2009, 06:24 AM
I agree about Kuper - we missed him quite a bit. There were several plays that were one block away from working.


That's nothing. If you listened to the announcers during the game, on pretty much every play, the Bengals were only two broken tackles away from breaking the big one.

Inkana7
09-18-2009, 07:15 AM
Marvin Lewis isn't an idiot when it comes to the D side of the ball either... I honestly expect Cinci to be a top 10 defense this year.

They were like #12 in D last year despite having an offense ranked either #31 or #32 in every category.

colonelbeef
09-18-2009, 08:44 AM
Hope you're right. We did give up a bit more pressure than usual, and the holes for the RBs weren't really there.

Cinci's D is no pushover, though. I think they were 12th overall last year, and added a few pieces this year.

It's like you've never watched a single football game in your life.

The holes for the RBs weren't there because the opposing defense doesn't respect our QB's abilities, nor do they have to.

this will be a recurring theme until Orton is gone.

kupesdad
09-19-2009, 11:47 AM
He didn't give up a sack last year and he broke his hand two times (once during training camp and again during the season)... I think it was two different hands too...

He will be fine tomorrow

Mr. Elway
09-19-2009, 11:55 AM
He will be fine tomorrow

Great news! Thanks for the info and glad to hear your son will be back on the field.

Chris
09-19-2009, 12:37 PM
He will be fine tomorrow

Hope he's feeling alright. We need him.

Man-Goblin
09-19-2009, 12:41 PM
He will be fine tomorrow

Excellent! Hopefully, he doesn't have to resort to one of those dredded shots to get on the field.

Natedogg
09-19-2009, 01:01 PM
Great News.

ManGoblin, you inspired me to change my avy.

tsiguy96
09-19-2009, 01:28 PM
He will be fine tomorrow

god, hochstein(sp) did NOT have a good game.

Steve Sewell
09-19-2009, 10:37 PM
yeah throughout the entire game, every time Hamilton screwed up I could imagine McD saying "oh he is so gone"

Like in an effeminate way? lol

lex
09-20-2009, 12:28 AM
Did any one else see just how obvious that was? Harris didn't look comfortable. At least one sack and one swatted ball was a direct result of Wiegmann and Hochstein looking out of sync.

Russ did a good job filling in, but the OL, specifically the interior, was giving up more penetration than they did much of last year and a few defenders made it through nearly untouched because of miscommunication. Even Moreno suffered because his clipping penalty was the result of him going low the same instant Hochstein engaged above the waist.

When Kuper comes back its going to be a nice kick start to this offense, hopefully its very soon.

It doesnt really seem like he did a good job then.

Drek
09-20-2009, 03:59 AM
It doesnt really seem like he did a good job then.

For a guy who's been on the roster all of about two weeks and is the NFL equivalent of a utility man he did a good job. But Kuper is a borderline all-pro OG. Hochstein put up a league average game at a position where we've previously seen significantly above average play, that while facing a very big, powerful DL which has previously been the kryptonite of our OL.

rastaman
09-20-2009, 06:29 AM
It's like you've never watched a single football game in your life.

The holes for the RBs weren't there because the opposing defense doesn't respect our QB's abilities, nor do they have to.

this will be a recurring theme until Orton is gone.

Good point. The OLine will also continue to struggle and give up sacks b/c Orton has cement feet! and McD.....has moved away from zone blocking for the running game either incrementally or all together. Offensive line drafted by Shanny either are suited for zone blocking.....so expect McD to start revamping the OLine next season as well.