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Popps
09-11-2009, 11:24 PM
Pulled from another board...

Nice article clearly outlines the fallacy of the "almost there" 8-8 team of 2008. (Which was really a 7-9 team.)

http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/9/10/1024868/getting-over-the-2008-broncos-the

...On the flip side, if you look at the points for column, you’ll find that the high-scoring Cutler & co. bandwagon was outscored by 10 teams on this list, including such awesome juggernauts as the 2006 Jaguars and the 2004 Bengals. You’ll also notice that one of the highest-scoring teams on the list was the 2008 Chargers, who dropped 439 points (nearly 1/8 of them on December 28!) and outscored their opponents by nearly 100 points. In other words, the season-ending meeting between the two teams ended about like it should have: The 2nd-best 8-8 team in memory pounded the 2nd-worst.

Rock Chalk
09-12-2009, 12:24 AM
Bump because this was a great read.

Mr.Meanie
09-12-2009, 12:37 AM
They're not going to like this. They're not going to like this one bit.

watermock
09-12-2009, 12:48 AM
So lets spend a second on a blocking TE and 6 of 9 (actually 10) on offense.

DBroncos4life
09-12-2009, 01:00 AM
Wow I knew Mike Shanahan was good but man this just proves that he is even better then I thought.

Popps
09-12-2009, 01:02 AM
So lets spend a second on a blocking TE and 6 of 9 (actually 10) on offense.

3 of our first 4 overall picks in the draft were defensive players.

Through 4 complete rounds, we had drafted 4 defensive players and only 2 offensive players.

More than half of the resources spent in free agency were spent on the defensive side of the ball.

Our defense features 9 new starters. Only one starter remains at the same position from last season.





The one offensive pick we chose in the first 4 picks of the draft was a position of extreme need, filled by college's best prospect.


Look, Mock... you've got **** for brains. Fine. But, repeating lies won't turn them into facts.

This team addressed a variety of crucial needs, including a total revamp of the defensive personnel, coach and scheme.

Popps
09-12-2009, 01:03 AM
Wow I knew Mike Shanahan was good but man this just proves that he is even better then I thought.

Totally agree with that statement.

Shanny is one of the best game-day coaches in the history of the game.

Unfortunately, his track record with personnel wasn't so go, and the iron-fisted control of all aspects of the franchise's personnel wore thin, and it was time for a change.

Mr.Meanie
09-12-2009, 01:04 AM
The article talks about how the offense had serious issues, and mock is upset that they addressed the offense. Ha!

wolf754life
09-12-2009, 01:08 AM
mock you need to let go and get your ass on board.

you know you were holding on to the good old days like an ex girlfriend....

i have news for you, its not 1997-1998, john elway is retired, terrel davis is gone, mike shanahan won one playoff game without those guys in almost a decade....

wake up, your boy couldn't develop defensive talent, he wouldn't fire slowick, it was time for a change. Change is hard, sometimes its brutal in the beginning, but slowly you can develop an identity, slowly you can develop a new way of doing things, you can develop new philosophy, new energy, and new focus..........

mark my words, this will be ok, the broncos will be better off, every day they will get a little better, every practice, every game.

we might end up 3-13, or 10-6, or probably somewhere in between, we are building a new foundation, a new way, no more country club, our team will tackle, our team will play physically, they will be aggressive, they will ATTACK.

Hair on fire, Kamikaze football, not playing to lose...rather playing to win!
mistakes.......there will be many.......success? fewer at first, more every week.
defense will be better, offensively we will be top 10. schedule is hard, patience harder, but understand this...............next year we will be light years ahead of where we would have been if mansionohan had been here.

this team will be more balanced, better special teams, in much better salary cap/financial shape, and have a clear vision on where and what they are doing.

enjoy this year, understand we are not winning the title, do you realize Denver hasn't rebuilt their squad like this since 1994 or 95 when they went 5-11? Shanahan came in, shook it up, and now it was time for someone else to come in and shake it up.

go broncos!

Popps
09-12-2009, 01:13 AM
Denver hasn't rebuilt their squad like this since 1994 or 95 when they went 5-11? Shanahan came in, shook it up, and now it was time for someone else to come in and shake it up.

go broncos!

That sums it all up.

It baffles me that people would prefer to stay mired in the past, sulking about something they can't change, instead of embracing the new players/system/staff and hoping we can have a repeat of those glorious late 90s teams.

I just can't wait to watch a balanced, physical football team that can play defense again. Might take more than a season, but I believe it's coming.

I want teams to fear coming to Denver again. It's been a long time.

BroncoMan4ever
09-12-2009, 01:44 AM
That sums it all up.

It baffles me that people would prefer to stay mired in the past, sulking about something they can't change, instead of embracing the new players/system/staff and hoping we can have a repeat of those glorious late 90s teams.

I just can't wait to watch a balanced, physical football team that can play defense again. Might take more than a season, but I believe it's coming.

I want teams to fear coming to Denver again. It's been a long time.

too many people here are like the 40 year old drunk loser hating everything about life except for the year in high school his football team won state and all he can talk about is that time in high school.

i loved Mike, but his time had come, it was time for a new direction.

also, i often wonder, what would many have said had Mike not every year put together a mediocre team, and just one year blew up the team and rebuilt and made a competitive team after a year or 2 of suck

ZONA
09-12-2009, 02:09 AM
I think it should be clearly pointed out that while it's good to be optimistic about the future, if we are going on fact here, we don't know what kind of team this will be. We do know it will be hard to be worse then the 2008 Broncos, especially the defense and special teams (which that article doesn't even mention, and I'm sure the Broncos were equally as poor in special teams as they were on defense).

Bottom line is Shanny really didn't produce anything in nearly 10 years and it doesn't matter if you love the guy or not, he was losing (often) and losing coaches get fired. You can only proclaim "we are close" so many times before the message falls on def ears.

We needed change. We hope the changes in progress turn out to be fruitful, we shall see.

watermock
09-12-2009, 02:35 AM
I'm not going to predict gloom. I'm done.

The "East Coast Biased Media" has it out for us, despite having their favorite child protoge' in charge of both HC and GM.

I'm not the one who picked Denver 32.

I think we'll finish around 7 or 8, which will about where McCoy or Mt Cody or Mays will go.

Ellis the bean counter, nephew of Bush 1 and Bowlens excuse factory doesn't inspire mch confidence from me, despite wonderboy.

We get a pretty easy trget Sunday. It's definetly a tossup.

Atwater His Ass
09-12-2009, 02:39 AM
Yeah, nothing screams success like trading away your franchise QB and having an below average to average QB take his place, installing both a new offense and a new defense, and not bringing in any quality defensive players, espeacially along the DL where we have been historically weak over the last decade. What's not to be excited about?

CEH
09-12-2009, 02:48 AM
I'm not advocating keeping Shanny. I like the McD/Nolan move I'm just saying we are ignoring a critical element of the NFL . A time proven element for success. Turnover differential

Lets pick out the 2004 Bengals and 2006 Jags whom the author highlighted in his report and compare Denver putid offense to

How did they do the next year? Both the Bengals and Jags went 11-5.

Wonder why? Lets take a closer look

Denver was -17 in turnover differential thanks to the 2nd lowest turnovers by a D in the history of the NFL.


Cinci was #1 in 2005 in turnover differential and JAX jumped from +1 to +9 in T/O differential in 2007. Also as I've mentioned several times JAX and Cinnci forced close to 30 turnovers even in their 8-8 seasons compared to Denver's 13.

Why did Miami go from 2 wins to 11 wins from '07 to '08?

Just one question a simple yes/no
Would Denver's PPG in '08 remained the same at 23.1 had our defense generated 28 turnovers instead of 13.


IMO, the offense was fine. The defense needed a major overhaul.
Ppl need to stop painting Denver as a team than needed an overhaul on both sides of the ball

watermock
09-12-2009, 02:48 AM
Hey, Dawkins broke up a completion that went over Champ last week!

For 9 million over 2, he's the man!

Popps
09-12-2009, 02:49 AM
Yeah, nothing screams success like trading away your franchise QB

17-22 as a starter and threw the 2nd most INTs in the league last year.

Guess you'd better look up the definition of "franchise" before you go throwing it around on a turd like Cutler.

Yand not bringing in any quality defensive players, espeacially along the DL where we have been historically weak over the last decade. What's not to be excited about?

Yea, well... this is the Argument Du Jour for the football-challenged around here. Problem is, it's bull****.

We're starting a completely revamped front seven featuring a new system that emphasizes the skill-sets of guys like Dumervil and Ayers, who will be our defensive "line" play-makers going forward.

I realize that it's going to be tough to replace such stellar players as John Engelberger, but I'll go out on a limb and say we'll be fine.

Tell you what, yappy. You run your mouth 24/7 on this site, crying about this **** all day long. Put your money where your mouth is. You name the amount, and we'll bet on whether the defense improves or not.

3 years running... the prior staff couldn't improve the defense.

I'll bet you the current staff improves it in ONE year. By the end of this year, I'll bet we improve on the following...

-Points against (The most important stat of all.)
-Sacks
-Rushing yardage allowed
-Passing yardage allowed

Let's hear it, mouthy. Name your bet. We've done so poorly this off-season, you should obviously jump on this chance for some easy money.

Name your bet....

watermock
09-12-2009, 02:51 AM
I'm not advocating keeping Shanny. I like the McD/Nolan move I'm just saying we are ignoring a critical element of the NFL . A time proven element for success. Turnover differential

Lets pick out the 2004 Bengals and 2006 Jags who the author highlighted in his report and compare Denver putid offense to

How did they do the next year? Both the Bengals and Jags went 11-5.

Wonder why? Lets take a closer look

Denver was -17 in turnover differential thanks to the 2nd lowest turnovers by a D in the history of the NFL.


Cinci was #1 in 2005 in turnover differential and JAX jumped from +1 to +9 in T/O differential in 2007. Also as I've mentioned several times JAX and Cinnci forced close to 30 turnovers even in their 8-8 seasons compared to Denver's 13.

Why did Miami go from 2 wins to 11 wins from '07 to '08?

Just one question a simple yes/no
Would Denver's PPG in '08 remained the same at 23.1 had our defense generated 28 turnovers instead of 13.


IMO, the offense was fine. The defense needed a major overhaul.
Ppl need to stop painting Denver as a team than needed an overhaul on both sides of the ball


Don't even try that to the physics proffs over at MH.

There was nothing wrong with the offense a decent RB wouldn't of fixed, or a decent D.

Lomax
09-12-2009, 03:10 AM
17-22 as a starter and threw the 2nd most INTs in the league last year.

Guess you'd better look up the definition of "franchise" before you go throwing it around on a turd like Cutler.



Yea, well... this is the Argument Du Jour for the football-challenged around here. Problem is, it's bull****.

We're starting a completely revamped front seven featuring a new system that emphasizes the skill-sets of guys like Dumervil and Ayers, who will be our defensive "line" play-makers going forward.

I realize that it's going to be tough to replace such stellar players as John Engelberger, but I'll go out on a limb and say we'll be fine.

Tell you what, yappy. You run your mouth 24/7 on this site, crying about this **** all day long. Put your money where your mouth is. You name the amount, and we'll bet on whether the defense improves or not.

3 years running... the prior staff couldn't improve the defense.

I'll bet you the current staff improves it in ONE year. By the end of this year, I'll bet we improve on the following...

-Points against (The most important stat of all.)
-Sacks
-Rushing yardage allowed
-Passing yardage allowed

Let's hear it, mouthy. Name your bet. We've done so poorly this off-season, you should obviously jump on this chance for some easy money.

Name your bet....
Don't forget takeaways. I'd bet any amount of money that we improve there.

In fact, I think we'll be in the top 10.

DBroncos4life
09-12-2009, 04:37 AM
I'm not advocating keeping Shanny. I like the McD/Nolan move I'm just saying we are ignoring a critical element of the NFL . A time proven element for success. Turnover differential

Lets pick out the 2004 Bengals and 2006 Jags whom the author highlighted in his report and compare Denver putid offense to

How did they do the next year? Both the Bengals and Jags went 11-5.

Wonder why? Lets take a closer look

Denver was -17 in turnover differential thanks to the 2nd lowest turnovers by a D in the history of the NFL.


Cinci was #1 in 2005 in turnover differential and JAX jumped from +1 to +9 in T/O differential in 2007. Also as I've mentioned several times JAX and Cinnci forced close to 30 turnovers even in their 8-8 seasons compared to Denver's 13.

Why did Miami go from 2 wins to 11 wins from '07 to '08?

Just one question a simple yes/no
Would Denver's PPG in '08 remained the same at 23.1 had our defense generated 28 turnovers instead of 13.


IMO, the offense was fine. The defense needed a major overhaul.
Ppl need to stop painting Denver as a team than needed an overhaul on both sides of the ball
whoomp there it is...

elsid13
09-12-2009, 04:50 AM
I love how folks throw things out but fail to look at the root cause of failure. Yes scoring wasn't what it should have been, but that can be result of bad field position (I posted awhile ago that Denver had one of the worse starting position in league) and injuries. Injuries forced guys that should have be our strength in ST, onto the field as starters which made special teams even worse. Add in the lack of faith in the running game and you have team that rates in middle of the pack for scoring.

HorseHead
09-12-2009, 05:20 AM
game, set, match "wolf754life"...nice take wolfie...

fontaine
09-12-2009, 05:23 AM
It was time to move on allright. But usually when you move on you do it to bigger and better things, and not a mediocre QB with a rookie HC who is an unkown.

c_lazy_r
09-12-2009, 06:58 AM
mock you need to let go and get your ass on board.

you know you were holding on to the good old days like an ex girlfriend....

i have news for you, its not 1997-1998, john elway is retired, terrel davis is gone, mike shanahan won one playoff game without those guys in almost a decade....

wake up, your boy couldn't develop defensive talent, he wouldn't fire slowick, it was time for a change. Change is hard, sometimes its brutal in the beginning, but slowly you can develop an identity, slowly you can develop a new way of doing things, you can develop new philosophy, new energy, and new focus..........

mark my words, this will be ok, the broncos will be better off, every day they will get a little better, every practice, every game.

we might end up 3-13, or 10-6, or probably somewhere in between, we are building a new foundation, a new way, no more country club, our team will tackle, our team will play physically, they will be aggressive, they will ATTACK.

Hair on fire, Kamikaze football, not playing to lose...rather playing to win!
mistakes.......there will be many.......success? fewer at first, more every week.
defense will be better, offensively we will be top 10. schedule is hard, patience harder, but understand this...............next year we will be light years ahead of where we would have been if mansionohan had been here.

this team will be more balanced, better special teams, in much better salary cap/financial shape, and have a clear vision on where and what they are doing.

enjoy this year, understand we are not winning the title, do you realize Denver hasn't rebuilt their squad like this since 1994 or 95 when they went 5-11? Shanahan came in, shook it up, and now it was time for someone else to come in and shake it up.

go broncos!

I don't agree with you very often but this was an excellent post. Well done.

jhat01
09-12-2009, 06:59 AM
I don't agree with you very often but this was an excellent post. Well done.

Indeed it was.

watermock
09-12-2009, 08:01 AM
we might end up 3-13, or 10-6, or probably somewhere in between, we are building a new foundation, a new way, no more country club, our team will tackle, our team will play physically, they will be aggressive, they will ATTACK.



:homer:

Broncos4tw
09-12-2009, 08:15 AM
I am on board. Only because I really don't have a choice. I think McD bungled the Cutler affair, and he is a very young coach, and has a lot to learn. He will, eventually.

But at the end of the day, I bleed orange and blue, and no matter what this team does, I'm on board. I'll be yelling just as loudly, and won't miss a play if I can help it.

Might as well get on board with all the changes, it's not like there is anything we can do about it. Go team!

Rock Chalk
09-12-2009, 08:38 AM
I am on board. Only because I really don't have a choice. I think McD bungled the Cutler affair, and he is a very young coach, and has a lot to learn. He will, eventually.

But at the end of the day, I bleed orange and blue, and no matter what this team does, I'm on board. I'll be yelling just as loudly, and won't miss a play if I can help it.

Might as well get on board with all the changes, it's not like there is anything we can do about it. Go team!

McD didn't bungle the Cutler affair at all.

Cutler bungled the Cutler affair.

When Bates was let go, Cutler made up his mind he was not going to play in Denver anymore.

It wouldn't have mattered if McD inquired about Cassel or not. If it wasn't that it would have been something else. Cutler's demands for a trade and then subsequent IGNORING of Bowlen were what bungled the Cutler deal.

For the last time, McDaniels was willing to wait Cutler out and see him in camp but when Cutler did NOT RETURN THE OWNER'S PHONE CALLS (And Cutler admitted as much on NATIONAL ****ING TV), the OWNER told McDaniels to trade Cutler.

McDaniels was perfectly willing to let the god damn pussy pout and wait his ass out.

2KBack
09-12-2009, 08:48 AM
I love how folks throw things out but fail to look at the root cause of failure. Yes scoring wasn't what it should have been, but that can be result of bad field position (I posted awhile ago that Denver had one of the worse starting position in league) and injuries. Injuries forced guys that should have be our strength in ST, onto the field as starters which made special teams even worse. Add in the lack of faith in the running game and you have team that rates in middle of the pack for scoring.

There are stats on all sides with that debate. For example, Denver was in the cellar for Time of Posession, and among league leaders in offensive turnovers.

There is no "root cause of failure" in Football, too much is linked. The closest thing you can get to a root cause is what players are on the field and who's coaching them. Every team has injuries, New England lost it's all-world QB and had almost as many RB injuries as Denver and was more successful offensivly and on special teams. New Orleans lost Colston and Bush for long stretchs last season and performed better than any offense in the league, including scoring offense (and they had a crap defense).

rbackfactory80
09-12-2009, 09:30 AM
I love how folks throw things out but fail to look at the root cause of failure. Yes scoring wasn't what it should have been, but that can be result of bad field position (I posted awhile ago that Denver had one of the worse starting position in league) and injuries. Injuries forced guys that should have be our strength in ST, onto the field as starters which made special teams even worse. Add in the lack of faith in the running game and you have team that rates in middle of the pack for scoring.

Field position fails to explain why no matter where they received the ball they marched the entire field until roughly the five yard line and settled for a field goal.

Broncos4tw
09-12-2009, 09:33 AM
McD didn't bungle the Cutler affair at all.

Cutler bungled the Cutler affair.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I think you are wrong. If they really wanted Cutler on this team, they could have had him. After lying to him about being our starter, and trying to get his old Patriot buddy on the team, he could have kissed Cutler's ass. He DID have a meeting with Bowlen, Cutler and his agent. That was the time to make it right. He did not. He said some idiotic thing like "no one is safe," blahblah etc. Moronic. Even if it wasn't true, he should have given lip service. I've not heard a single analyst or expert (other than all these "experts" on this board) who said it was a good idea, and all are unanimous in regards to saying it WAS the front office's and McD's fault. They could have fixed the situation. They chose not to.

But whatever... I guess every single player on this team has to love it, and love all the guys around them, and go to church every Sunday as well. They WILL be team players or else! ... just dumb, sorry. There are all sorts of players in the NFL, and some do need their ego's stroked. Guess what: if they are one of the top players in the NFL, stoke those egos. There is a limit, but Cutler was no where near that. Not even CLOSE to a TO. He was whiney and petulant. Who cares? Get over it, and be the bigger man / owner, and say whatever you need to, to keep him on the team.

Our biggest setback isn't McD... it's Orton. The entire affair was bungled from start to finish.

But again, whatever, I'm tired of arguing about it. It's done. We have this team, and we are stuck with it, might as well get used to it.

Bronco Yoda
09-12-2009, 09:34 AM
The first step for all the cutler widowers is to seek help. Here you go...

http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/articlecosmomatch.aspx?cp-documentid=21429010&GT1=32023

oubronco
09-12-2009, 09:34 AM
Totally agree with that statement.

Shanny is one of the best game-day coaches in the history of the game.

Unfortunately, his track record with personnel wasn't so go, and the iron-fisted control of all aspects of the franchise's personnel wore thin, and it was time for a change.

I honestly think we would be better if Shanny would've relinquished the GM role and we got a real GM and Shanny just coached

Bronco Yoda
09-12-2009, 09:40 AM
That was never an option me thinks...

ScottXray
09-12-2009, 09:41 AM
The first step for all the cutler widowers is to seek help. Here you go...

http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/articlecosmomatch.aspx?cp-documentid=21429010&GT1=32023

BwaHaaHaaHaa!
Backhanded breakup...Describes the situation pretty well.

LOL

Bronco Yoda
09-12-2009, 09:51 AM
Widowers have to remember that 'He's Just Not That into You...and thought you were just a 6 all along'... :)

Bronx33
09-12-2009, 10:01 AM
too many people here are like the 40 year old drunk loser hating everything about life except for the year in high school his football team won state and all he can talk about is that time in high school.
i loved Mike, but his time had come, it was time for a new direction.

also, i often wonder, what would many have said had Mike not every year put together a mediocre team, and just one year blew up the team and rebuilt and made a competitive team after a year or 2 of suck

http://www.eebell.net/mwc/al.gif

Rohirrim
09-12-2009, 10:03 AM
I have been on board all along. The change had to be made. The Cutler thing I won't even bring up. But I am a CU alum. We fired a crappy coach and brought in the coach from one of the most exciting teams in the NCAA. It has not worked out. It is ugly. So, I am on board, but my enthusiasm is tempered by reality.

Pick Six
09-12-2009, 10:12 AM
3 straight years of missing the playoffs...something had to be done...

Popps
09-12-2009, 10:38 AM
I honestly think we would be better if Shanny would've relinquished the GM role and we got a real GM and Shanny just coached

Could be, though there would still the issue of bringing in the right defensive coaches, etc. I would have been in favor of trying that.

But, then again... 14 years is a TON of time for one coach to be with one team. It's extremely rare these days. He had a great run with us. Sometimes you have to completely refresh an organization to achieve success again.

As I've said before, I expect Shanahan to go to be successful, and I expect Bowlen and the Broncos to do the same.

Popps
09-12-2009, 10:41 AM
Don't forget takeaways. I'd bet any amount of money that we improve there.

In fact, I think we'll be in the top 10.



Yea, thought of that after I posted.


He won't be taking me up on it, anyway. They never do.

55CrushEm
09-12-2009, 10:42 AM
You are entitled to your opinion, but I think you are wrong. If they really wanted Cutler on this team, they could have had him. After lying to him about being our starter, and trying to get his old Patriot buddy on the team, he could have kissed Cutler's ass. He DID have a meeting with Bowlen, Cutler and his agent. That was the time to make it right. He did not. He said some idiotic thing like "no one is safe," blahblah etc. Moronic. Even if it wasn't true, he should have given lip service. I've not heard a single analyst or expert (other than all these "experts" on this board) who said it was a good idea, and all are unanimous in regards to saying it WAS the front office's and McD's fault. They could have fixed the situation. They chose not to.

But whatever... I guess every single player on this team has to love it, and love all the guys around them, and go to church every Sunday as well. They WILL be team players or else! ... just dumb, sorry. There are all sorts of players in the NFL, and some do need their ego's stroked. Guess what: if they are one of the top players in the NFL, stoke those egos. There is a limit, but Cutler was no where near that. Not even CLOSE to a TO. He was whiney and petulant. Who cares? Get over it, and be the bigger man / owner, and say whatever you need to, to keep him on the team.

Our biggest setback isn't McD... it's Orton. The entire affair was bungled from start to finish.

But again, whatever, I'm tired of arguing about it. It's done. We have this team, and we are stuck with it, might as well get used to it.

Oh sure.....kissing Cutler's ass would've been the right thing to do. That will ALWAYS make players respect a coach. ::)

Odysseus
09-12-2009, 10:47 AM
Widowers have to remember that 'He's Just Not That into You...and thought you were just a 6 all along'... :)

I am definitely going to have to invest in a Cutler Bears jersey. If he start putting up any numbers at all as an unofficial widower and longtime Bear's fan I could not be more pleased.

Rohirrim
09-12-2009, 10:48 AM
Speaking of Jeremy Bates, you can watch him tonight coaching USC's offense. ;D

Popps
09-12-2009, 11:09 AM
I am definitely going to have to invest in a Cutler Bears jersey. If he start putting up any numbers at all as an unofficial widower and longtime Bear's fan I could not be more pleased.

He can put up numbers, that's fine. As long as he fails in the clutch like he did for us last year... and Chicago has a crappy record.

I'd prefer our draft pick to be somewhere around 15... maybe a bit higher.

Durango
09-12-2009, 11:19 AM
17-22 as a starter and threw the 2nd most INTs in the league last year.

Guess you'd better look up the definition of "franchise" before you go throwing it around on a turd like Cutler.



Yea, well... this is the Argument Du Jour for the football-challenged around here. Problem is, it's bull****.

We're starting a completely revamped front seven featuring a new system that emphasizes the skill-sets of guys like Dumervil and Ayers, who will be our defensive "line" play-makers going forward.

I realize that it's going to be tough to replace such stellar players as John Engelberger, but I'll go out on a limb and say we'll be fine.

Tell you what, yappy. You run your mouth 24/7 on this site, crying about this **** all day long. Put your money where your mouth is. You name the amount, and we'll bet on whether the defense improves or not.

3 years running... the prior staff couldn't improve the defense.

I'll bet you the current staff improves it in ONE year. By the end of this year, I'll bet we improve on the following...

-Points against (The most important stat of all.)
-Sacks
-Rushing yardage allowed
-Passing yardage allowed

Let's hear it, mouthy. Name your bet. We've done so poorly this off-season, you should obviously jump on this chance for some easy money.

Name your bet....

Typical cherry-picking of McDaniels nut hangers. Just a guess here, but wouldn't WINS be the most important stat? And how many of those do you think the ball boy will manage this season?

Late 60's Bronco defenses racked up some impressive sack and rush defense numbers. How did that Lou Saban era turn out anyway?

Stats are a means for losers to justify something otherwise flawed in a very obvious way.

oubronco
09-12-2009, 11:21 AM
He can put up numbers, that's fine. As long as he fails in the clutch like he did for us last year... and Chicago has a crappy record.

I'd prefer our draft pick to be somewhere around 15... maybe a bit higher.

Yes around 10-13 would be nice but if we want a QB it better be top 5 but would be too expensive for an unproven player IMO

And if there was a new GM they would in charge of picking the new D-coordinator and then Shanny would be left to do what he does best Offense I honestly believe it would've been the best case scenario

Odysseus
09-12-2009, 11:28 AM
He can put up numbers, that's fine. As long as he fails in the clutch like he did for us last year... and Chicago has a crappy record.

I'd prefer our draft pick to be somewhere around 15... maybe a bit higher.

If he gets to the Superbowl and then fails this place will be fun to watch. If he gets to the Superbowl this place is going to be even more fun to watch. My hope is that he gets into the playoffs and at least causes a ripple. He's in the NFC?! What do I care?

I personally think the East Coast bias doomed Shanahan after he started having "too much success". Rule were changed to defeat his style of play and his inability to beg, borrow or steal a defense was amazing. How he did as well as he did year after year was amazing to me.

All new coaches in the NFL start out with drama. It's what they do with it that sparks a team or causes them to flame and die. I want to see what this coach looks like at the end of the season. He's been the most pimp slapped coach I have watched in memory.

As soon as he starts winning some games you'll see orange hoodies popping up everywhere. I call trademark!

Popps
09-12-2009, 11:29 AM
Typical cherry-picking of McDaniels nut hangers. Just a guess here, but wouldn't WINS be the most important stat?.

Poor guy, can't move on... huh? Still talking about things you can't change?

As for wins, my guess is that thanks to the prior administration... we'll be somewhere around .500, or a little under. Just like last year.

The question is, where is the franchise a 2-3 years from now. Are we still wallowing around .500, not winning any playoff games like the prior years? If so, we'll consider another move, I'm sure.

But, the time had come... and this article (along with simple logic) illustrates that perfectly.


Late 60's Bronco defenses racked up some impressive sack and rush defense numbers. How did that Lou Saban era turn out anyway?
.

Ahhh... still mired in the past, huh? Talking about things you can't change?

Good point, though... no one has ever won anything by putting together a top notch defense.

Great post!

Popps
09-12-2009, 11:32 AM
If he gets to the Superbowl and then fails this place will be fun to watch.!

Sad but true.

I watched "fans" around here trash the team every week after wins during the 2005 season. All the way through a great season, we saw the usual suspects trashing the team... until we finally lost in the AFCCG, at which point these folks were practically relieved.

That's why I'm warning people now... don't expect these widows to change their tune. If we start out 8-0, they'll be saying the same bull****, waiting for the first loss to pounce on.

Some people just never move on, despite an abundance of evidence telling them it's time to do so.

DarkHorse30
09-12-2009, 11:33 AM
Totally agree with that statement.

Shanny is one of the best game-day coaches in the history of the game.



I disagree; I know he has a rep for being a gameday coach...and maybe it is true for most of his career, but the last 3 years were a mess. His teams often failed down the stretch, and didn't adjust @ halftime. I think everybody caught up to his tendencies and he became pretty predictable. He got old....not unlike other coaches who have been running the same ship for too many years. Shula comes to mind.

rastaman
09-12-2009, 11:37 AM
The first step for all the cutler widowers is to seek help. Here you go...

http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/articlecosmomatch.aspx?cp-documentid=21429010&GT1=32023

Cutler Widowers vs the McDaniel's Nut Huggers! :sunshine:

Durango
09-12-2009, 11:44 AM
Poor guy, can't move on... huh? Still talking about things you can't change?

As for wins, my guess is that thanks to the prior administration... we'll be somewhere around .500, or a little under. Just like last year.

The question is, where is the franchise a 2-3 years from now. Are we still wallowing around .500, not winning any playoff games like the prior years? If so, we'll consider another move, I'm sure.

But, the time had come... and this article (along with simple logic) illustrates that perfectly.



Ahhh... still mired in the past, huh? Talking about things you can't change?

Good point, though... no one has ever won anything by putting together a top notch defense.

Great post!

Eh, the past is the past. Shanahan had to go, just like Gary Barnett had to go at C-U after that ugly sex and recruiting scandal. It made me uncomfortable at the time, but there really weren't too many realistic options in either case if the school and the franchise were to move forward rather than run in place.

The choices you make to move forward are the crucial ones, and C-U chose Opie while the Broncos opted for a man-child with a God complex modeled after his maker; Bill Belichick.

"And He said, give me Josh, and there was Josh. And he maketh Josh in His own image, complete with hoodie and cut-off sleeves."

Yeah, lets trash a couple, three seasons and hope things get better. That's the ticket.

Great post.

Popps
09-12-2009, 11:45 AM
E
"And He said, give me Josh, and there was Josh. And he maketh Josh in His own image, complete with hoodie and cut-off sleeves."
.

Fantastic work. First, teams don't need a defense to win. Now, it's all about the coach's wardrobe choice?

Great contributions, champ!

Durango
09-12-2009, 12:03 PM
Fantastic work. First, teams don't need a defense to win. Now, it's all about the coach's wardrobe choice?

Great contributions, champ!

Ah, well, of course, I never said, nor would ever say, a defense isn't crucial to winning. As a matter of fact, my contention would be that defense is the most crucial piece to a successful play-off puzzle, but then, you knew that.

You just hope to shift discussion away from careful process of building excuses for this Belichick mini-me, and in the process, lower over-all expectations in the promise of better statistics and that promise of a better day several years down the pike.

Wow. Sounds like a plan.

DBroncos4life
09-12-2009, 01:15 PM
Fantastic work. First, teams don't need a defense to win. Now, it's all about the coach's wardrobe choice?

Great contributions, champ!

Talent would be a start.....

broncosteven
09-12-2009, 01:34 PM
It was time to move on allright. But usually when you move on you do it to bigger and better things, and not a mediocre QB with a rookie HC who is an unkown.

Well said!

Mogulseeker
09-12-2009, 01:38 PM
Pulled from another board...

Nice article clearly outlines the fallacy of the "almost there" 8-8 team of 2008. (Which was really a 7-9 team.)

http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/9/10/1024868/getting-over-the-2008-broncos-the

...On the flip side, if you look at the points for column, you’ll find that the high-scoring Cutler & co. bandwagon was outscored by 10 teams on this list, including such awesome juggernauts as the 2006 Jaguars and the 2004 Bengals. You’ll also notice that one of the highest-scoring teams on the list was the 2008 Chargers, who dropped 439 points (nearly 1/8 of them on December 28!) and outscored their opponents by nearly 100 points. In other words, the season-ending meeting between the two teams ended about like it should have: The 2nd-best 8-8 team in memory pounded the 2nd-worst.

...but could have been an 11-5 team.

Bronx33
09-12-2009, 01:43 PM
It was time to move on allright. But usually when you move on you do it to bigger and better things, and not a mediocre QB with a rookie HC who is an unkown.


I somewhat agree, the direction really changed when our QB turned out to be a whiny POS punk that much was unforseen IMO in pats direction change for the club.

DarkHorse30
09-12-2009, 03:21 PM
Speaking of Jeremy Bates, you can watch him tonight coaching USC's offense. ;D

Thank you; I needed at least ONE reason to watch the cheating-bastard-vest-and-ties this year......it will be interesting to see if JB is a wunderkind we all thought he was.....not.

DBroncos4life
09-12-2009, 03:43 PM
Thank you; I needed at least ONE reason to watch the cheating-bastard-vest-and-ties this year......it will be interesting to see if JB is a wunderkind we all thought he was.....not.

Just from watching the highlights of last weeks USC game you can tell that Bates is coaching there. He looked good, his role out passes really does help a freshman QB.

rastaman
09-12-2009, 04:12 PM
I somewhat agree, the direction really changed when our QB turned out to be a whiny POS punk that much was unforseen IMO in pats direction change for the club.

Disagree with ya! Cutler asked for the trade when McD told Cutler he couldn't promise he wouldn't seek a possible trade for Cutler if the right opportunity came up! And McD said this right after he tried to trade for Cassel behind Cutlers back! So Cutler told the un proven rookie HC....to go screw himself and asked for a trade. The rest is history.

Popps
09-12-2009, 04:49 PM
Ah, well, of course, I never said, nor would ever say, a defense isn't crucial to winning. As a matter of fact, my contention would be that defense is the most crucial piece to a successful play-off puzzle, but then, you knew that.

Oh, of course I know it.

You were the one that came in giving statistics of Broncos teams from decades ago to illustrate your point that improved defensive stats (according to you) wouldn't matter.

Maybe you should figure out what you mean... get your thoughts together and start over.

Archer81
09-12-2009, 05:03 PM
You guys realize we are 16 hours and 55 minutes away from game time?


:Broncos:

Atwater His Ass
09-12-2009, 05:10 PM
you realize this will be an ongoing issue for the rest of the year?

Archer81
09-12-2009, 05:12 PM
you realize this will be an ongoing issue for the rest of the year?


Really? Aww shucks...


:Broncos:

Durango
09-12-2009, 08:22 PM
Oh, of course I know it.

You were the one that came in giving statistics of Broncos teams from decades ago to illustrate your point that improved defensive stats (according to you) wouldn't matter.

Maybe you should figure out what you mean... get your thoughts together and start over.

I didn't, nor would ever say they don't matter you mindless nitwit. I said they're just statistics that mean nothing without the most important statistic; wins. You seem to believe some baby steps forward is an acceptable standard for this franchise.

I don't. They aren't. McDaniels said he intends to win now and that's exactly what should be expected. Starting Sunday.

Atwater His Ass
09-12-2009, 08:31 PM
McD's dug his own grave with his complete botching of the off-season and draft. He will be under extordinary pressure from his own actions to win now.

Winning is the ONLY thing that will quell this mess. The time line is now, not 3 years from now. He did this to himself. Hope he's up to the challenge.

prunch
09-12-2009, 08:44 PM
Disagree with ya! Cutler asked for the trade when McD told Cutler he couldn't promise he wouldn't seek a possible trade for Cutler if the right opportunity came up! And McD said this right after he tried to trade for Cassel behind Cutlers back! So Cutler told the un proven rookie HC....to go screw himself and asked for a trade. The rest is history.

Wait, we traded Cutler?

Why wasn't there a thread about this before now? C'mon guys that was kinda important.

Atwater His Ass
09-12-2009, 08:49 PM
Wait, we traded Cutler?

Why wasn't there a thread about this before now? C'mon guys that was kinda important.

you're cool dude. really.

rastaman
09-12-2009, 08:52 PM
Wait, we traded Cutler?

Why wasn't there a thread about this before now? C'mon guys that was kinda important.

Boy are you creatively cynical! ROFL!

Durango
09-12-2009, 08:54 PM
McD's dug his own grave with his complete botching of the off-season and draft. He will be under extordinary pressure from his own actions to win now.

Winning is the ONLY thing that will quell this mess. The time line is now, not 3 years from now. He did this to himself. Hope he's up to the challenge.

Exactly!

The idea some marginal improvements in some numbers matrix translates to progress is the mindset of a loser.

Real progress is measured in wins.

It was that way for Shanahan, it should be, and will be that way with McDaniels.

Shanny got a longer leash than may have been warrented because he brought a couple of trophies to the city.

That is the goal of McDaniels in the same way my goal is to earn a billion and run off to my private South Pacific island with a harem of swimsuit models.

Could happen, but it may take divine intervention.

Broncos4tw
09-12-2009, 09:19 PM
Well we should obviously win more than 8 games. After all, McD was brought in to improve this team. He is a brilliant coach, and all his changes were GOOD and NEEDED. If they were all good and needed, there should be no need why we can't go 10-6, at least. Right?

Atwater His Ass
09-12-2009, 09:21 PM
Well we should obviously win more than 8 games. After all, McD was brought in to improve this team. He is a brilliant coach, and all his changes were GOOD and NEEDED. If they were all good and needed, there should be no need why we can't go 10-6, at least. Right?

ahahahahaahahahahaahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahah ahahahahahahaahahahahahahahha

ScottXray
09-12-2009, 10:19 PM
Yeah...EXCEPT....

That Shanahan team from last year would do no better than 6-10 this year, even with a miracle coaching job by the shan-man and a terrific season by our "pro-bowl" QB. Face it , our defense, at best, was one of the worst in the NFL last year, and may have approached being the worst Bronco D of all time. And with Slowick still here, how can you even THINK it would do better than that. Who among you thinks that?.

Which is why the team going 6-10 or so this year, with all the changes in personnel, and scheme, and the difficult schedule stretch we face could be considered to be PROGRESS.

Wanting to see an improvement in wins over last year is Okay. EXPECTING it is being rediculously simple minded. Demanding it, or saying that anything less is reason to fire the coach is unrealistic, and a fools errand. It is not going to happen.

Tomorrow the season starts for us, as fans. Until now there is only talk, and talk is cheap. Tomorrow , we START to see what the off season has wrought and what that really means.

I'm going to pull for this team to WIN in Every game. That won't happen, but I will pull for it anyway. I will continue to do so all this season, next season and EVERY season until I can't see or hear the games due to being blind and deaf.

Tomorrow , Orton is MY QB. If he falls ,then Whoever goes in that has the Bronco logo on his helmet is MY QB. The rest of the players that also wear that logo are MY Broncos. I will support them and hope that they reward me with some wins along the way. The coach is also among that group.

The QB that was here last year is now playing for another team. That is what HE wanted. **** Him and the horse he rode in on.

Go BRONCOS!

Atwater His Ass
09-12-2009, 10:22 PM
you homers never cease to amaze me. this place is almost as good as broncomania.

Durango
09-12-2009, 10:27 PM
The QB that was here last year is now playing for another team. That is what HE wanted. **** Him and the horse he rode in on.

Go BRONCOS!

Absolutely. That's why he stayed in town after the 2008 season, and asked for a coaches committment, and took a playbook home, and worked out at Dove Valley and did Public Service commericals still airing today, and worked for his charities and talked to Denver schoolkids.

He wanted out for sure. Can't deny those signals.

Atwater His Ass
09-12-2009, 10:29 PM
Absolutely. That's why he stayed in town after the 2008 season, and asked for a coaches committment, and took a playbook home, and worked out at Dove Valley and did Public Service commericals still airing today, and worked for his charities and talked to Denver schoolkids.

He wanted out for sure. Can't deny those signals.

facts wut?

ps. don't confuse the plebs wtih your "facts", that'll just result in them going into convulsions and posting absurd ****.

Popps
09-12-2009, 10:49 PM
you homers never cease to amaze me. this place is almost as good as broncomania.

Run along, sport. You've already had your ass handed to you.

You clearly have no conviction or belief in the Broncos-hate you spew here all day long. If you did, you'd take the bet.

You just look silly, at this point. Well, sillier.

Durango
09-12-2009, 11:27 PM
Run along, sport. You've already had your ass handed to you.

You clearly have no conviction or belief in the Broncos-hate you spew here all day long. If you did, you'd take the bet.

You just look silly, at this point. Well, sillier.


What bet is this? These little stat lines you've set up? Look buddy, me and three of my friends could improve on Denvers' defense in '08. It's admirable you want to wait until the return of Christ for McDaniels to break .500, but your little bet challenge is just about as shallow as your carefully selected stats. Silly indeed.

Atwater His Ass
09-12-2009, 11:30 PM
What bet is this? These little stat lines you've set up? Look buddy, me and three of my friends could improve on Denvers' defense in '08. It's admirable you want to wait until the return of Christ for McDaniels to break .500, but your little bet challenge is just about as shallow as your carefully selected stats. Silly indeed.

that's just how lolpopps is. he's shallow, desperate, angry little person.

i can only hope that's his internet persona and doesn't translate into his personal life.

kamakazi_kal
09-12-2009, 11:30 PM
Run along, sport. You've already had your ass handed to you.

You clearly have no conviction or belief in the Broncos-hate you spew here all day long. If you did, you'd take the bet.

You just look silly, at this point. Well, sillier.

another personal attack......so predictable.

when in doubt, lash out right?

lex
09-12-2009, 11:36 PM
Im already ready to move on. Lets do it -- AGAIN!

Popps
09-13-2009, 12:14 AM
another personal attack......so predictable.

when in doubt, lash out right?

Wow, I haven't seen you "defending" any of the "idiot homers" he attacked.

Guess your charitable, forum-cop nature is a little selective, eh?

enjolras
09-13-2009, 12:50 AM
We won't know who's right until February. Until then:

GO BRONCOS!!!!!!!!

It's time to (wo)man-up and be a fan of this team. Root for the city, the people, and the team. Otherwise, what the hell are you doing wasting your time posting on a fan forum?

For the love of god.. what's done is done. Tomorrow it's time for some real football. Over the next 17 weeks we'll learn alot about the team, it's direction, and what needs to be done to bring us back to the superbowl. I, for one, am so incredibly glad this off-season is over.

Again...

GO BRONCOS!!!!!!!

lex
09-13-2009, 12:53 AM
We won't know who's right until February. Until then:

Heil Hitler!!!!!!!!

It's time to (wo)man-up and be a fan of this team. Root für das Vaterland, die Leute, and the Mannschaft. Otherwise, what the hell are you doing wasting your time posting on a fan forum?

For the love of god.. what's done is done. Tomorrow it's time for some real football. Over the next 17 weeks we'll learn alot about the team, it's direction, and what needs to be done to bring us back to the superbowl. I, for one, am so incredibly glad this off-season is over.

Again...

Heil Hitler!!!!!!!

"Nie Wieder"

baja
09-13-2009, 12:56 AM
"Nie Wieder"

you really should be banned JMO

Atwater His Ass
09-13-2009, 12:59 AM
you too

BroncoBuff
09-13-2009, 01:02 AM
another personal attack......so predictable.

when in doubt, lash out right?

That's who he is, that's what he does.

lex
09-13-2009, 01:04 AM
you really should be banned JMO


egal

DeusExManning
09-13-2009, 01:45 AM
Cutler's true rookie year. HMM

errand
09-13-2009, 08:55 AM
I want teams to fear coming to Denver again. It's been a long time.

You're right....it use to be opposing teams would rather play in a Yak corral in Katmandu than come to Denver, because they knew they'd be in a fight...not to mention the noise from rabid fans. These days Denver was the NFL's equivalent of a booty call as our D would go ass up for practically any opposing offense, or QB.

errand
09-13-2009, 08:57 AM
also, i often wonder, what would many have said had Mike not every year put together a mediocre team, and just one year blew up the team and rebuilt and made a competitive team after a year or 2 of suck

I think Mike meant well...but he still had this weird belief that this team was only one or two role players away from winning the title..

errand
09-13-2009, 09:01 AM
Bottom line is Shanny really didn't produce anything in nearly 10 years and it doesn't matter if you love the guy or not, he was losing (often) and losing coaches get fired. You can only proclaim "we are close" so many times before the message falls on def ears.



Bill Parcells said it best..."You are what your record says you are." After his first 4 seasons Mike was a "genius". His next 5 he was "pretty damn good". His last 3? The epitome of mediocrity.

errand
09-13-2009, 09:39 AM
Yeah, nothing screams success like trading away your franchise QB and having an below average to average QB take his place, installing both a new offense and a new defense, and not bringing in any quality defensive players, espeacially along the DL where we have been historically weak over the last decade. What's not to be excited about?

I couldn't help but notice your sarcasm.

Why don't you instead tell us the greatness of staying the course we were on? Not sure about you, but 8-8 is a mediocre movie we've all watched the past 3 seasons....I'd rather not watch it again and again if it's all the same to you.

Sure we may struggle to win 10 games this season...but how is that worse than the past 3 seasons where we did exactly that?

My excitement is based on the fact that this coach in his previous job has done wonders with a benchwarmer from U of Michigan, and his Patriot understudy who hadn't started a game since he was a senior in high school.

He's gotten diminutive WR like Wes Welker to have excellent years, and he's helped a headcase WR like Moss keep his nose clean and worry more about the team's success than his own...making them realize that when the team suceeds...they do too.

You don't notice anything similiar about the team he helped build in NE and this one?

Orton is not Cutler...but Brady and Cassell didn't have Bledsoe's arm either. Both were afterthoughts in the draft, and they are performing at high levels right now. McDaniels while not the sole reason, is a reason for it.

Wes Welker wasn't anything special prior to being shipped to NE...he was a KR who showed potential as a WR. He's caught 123 passes the past two seasons combined, and moves the chains constantly. McDaniels again, while not the sole reason...is a reason. Well, look at who we have playing WR in Denver...a faster version of Welker in Eddie Royal.

Randy Moss was a WR who seemed on the verge of going to prison at times...at the least a few suspensions seemed inevitable. Well, he's been a model citizen in NE...because he bought into the "team first" culture that McDaniels learned fom Belichick, and has brought to Denver. Again, McDaniels while not the sole reason, was a reason. Well guess what, we too have a sorta headcase WR that needs to learn what the word "team" means.

Building a team takes time....we have the potential franchise LT, and RB, our OL is solid...yes, we don't have the franchise QB now, but we have a servicable one who has proven he can win games in the NFL. But, prior to his winning the SB in his 2nd year what signs did Tom Brady show that would lead a sane person to believe he'd be all that and a bag of chips?

The defense seems improved which should keep us from having to score 30 or more every game. Of course I know we'll have the usual posters who will bitch about a 10-6 record because our QB isn't throwing for 4500 yards and 25 TD's.

this team looks to be headed in the right direction....time will tell of course, but to not be excited about it probably means you're more into hero worship.