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View Full Version : Bowlen is still Broncos' boss


dragondawg
09-10-2009, 04:59 AM
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post

Ease those minds, Broncos fans. Do not let the imagination wander too far from sensibility. Regardless of what anyone thinks about the series of bold decisions made by Pat Bowlen during the offseason, it doesn't mean the Broncos' owner has gone loopy.

Bowlen told The Denver Post a few months ago he's been struggling with his short-term memory. Yes, Bowlen just completed an offseason in which he fired 14-year coach Mike Shanahan, hired a 32-year-old, first-time coach in Josh McDaniels, and directed the order to trade away 25-year-old Pro Bowl quarterback Jay Cutler.

And yes, it appears Bowlen has delegated many of the team's day-to-day decisions to longtime deputy Joe Ellis.

Continued.... (http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_13283036)

SouthStndJunkie
09-10-2009, 06:06 AM
I learned absolutely nothing new from that article.

broncofan7
09-10-2009, 06:15 AM
Maybe he was waiting for his silver anniversary. After leaving Shanahan in charge of his entire football operations department for 14 years, Bowlen decided enough was enough.

"I am in charge. I make the calls," Bowlen said during his news conference to announce Shana-han's dismissal.

and when we win 3-5 games this year--hopefully the season ticket holders HOLD HIS A$$ to the fire...........

Tombstone RJ
09-10-2009, 06:28 AM
I learned absolutely nothing new from that article.

The only info. I gleened is that the day to day operations of the team have become more complicated which requires a different kind of structure. The new structure is based on how New England runs things, with Josh running the football operations, X handling the GM responsibilities and Ellis overseeing all day to day operations and reporting to Bowlen when Bowlen is not present.

I still don't understand why Ellis is needed. Why not let X report directly to Bowlen? The "GM" should over see all day to day operations anyway.

But, as the article states, the business of professional football in the NFL is complicated, I guess.

gunns
09-10-2009, 06:35 AM
Wow, I thought the title said Bowlen is still Bronco's loss.

gtown
09-10-2009, 06:38 AM
I learned absolutely nothing new from that article.

Note to self: Bowlen owns Denver Broncos.

The two minutes of my life spent reading this were quite an epiphany.

baja
09-10-2009, 06:41 AM
What I got is Pat likes to go to Hawaii.

TheReverend
09-10-2009, 06:42 AM
Has Klis gone full retard?

jhns
09-10-2009, 06:48 AM
No one believes Bowlen is in control now more than before. He has always said he has final say. He has also always said he pays guys to make decisions because he is the money and doesn't know how to be a GM/coach. This article even states as much. McD has a lot of GM responsibilities.

Those that think bowlen traded cutler are kidding themselves. He has been around far more problematic athletes, like Marshall, that do a lot more (o hurt the team than cutler ever did. He said a month before the trade that cutler was the man in denver. He had a good amount of merchandise and advertising centered around cutler. He did not decide to give him away. He doesn't make those decisions without the head coach wanting it to happen. That is how he is. The exact opposite of jerry jones.

bowtown
09-10-2009, 07:02 AM
Has Klis gone full retard?

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Film/Pix/pictures/2008/09/22/simple_jack_poster460.jpg

bronco militia
09-10-2009, 07:12 AM
I learned absolutely nothing new from that article.

Dragon Dawg always finds the best broncos news!

bpc
09-10-2009, 07:20 AM
Who the **** is Joe Ellis and why does he get to make football decisions?

TheReverend
09-10-2009, 07:27 AM
Who the **** is Joe Ellis and why does he get to make football decisions?

Someone who really doesn't like Shanahan or Cutler.

colonelbeef
09-10-2009, 07:29 AM
Who the **** is Joe Ellis and why does he get to make football decisions?

Joe Ellis is a Bush cousin, and has no previous football experience. Why he has so much say is a valid question, and concerns me to a great degree to be honest. It has been repeated numerous times that Ellis above all was anti-Cutler, I hope to god that this isn't just another case of a Bush getting a job because of legacy, and then ****ing it all up due to stupidity.

Wouldn't surprise me at all though. One can become president despite a series of professional and personal failures, stands to reason that another can get a cush job with the Broncos and **** that up too

Beantown Bronco
09-10-2009, 07:30 AM
Bowlen just held a press conference to respond to this article. Here's the opening footage:

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jhns
09-10-2009, 07:41 AM
Who the **** is Joe Ellis and why does he get to make football decisions?

I have heard a rumor that he is being groomed to buy the team when bowlen sells it. The other part of that was bowlen is thinking about giving up the team sometime in the next 5-10 years. None of that was from a credible source so it probably isn't true. Does anyone know what kind of money ellis has? I'm sure it is a good amount and most likely from oil like his family and friends.

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 08:03 AM
Those that think bowlen traded cutler are kidding themselves.

Yes, Bowlen just completed an offseason in which he fired 14-year coach Mike Shanahan, hired a 32-year-old, first-time coach in Josh McDaniels, and directed the order to trade away 25-year-old Pro Bowl quarterback Jay Cutler.

Apparently the author of this article is kidding himself. Do you not understand that from time to time Bowlen may poke his head in Josh McDaniels, Brian Xanders or Joe Ellis office and say "Hey, I don't like what's going on here." Is it not possible that such a thing might happen?

It's been documented and you've acknowledged that Pat Bowlen is leaving a lot of decisions to Joe Ellis. It's also been documented that Joe Ellis is not a fan of Cutler... you see the parallels?

jhns
09-10-2009, 08:19 AM
Apparently the author of this article is kidding himself. Do you not understand that from time to time Bowlen may poke his head in Josh McDaniels, Brian Xanders or Joe Ellis office and say "Hey, I don't like what's going on here." Is it not possible that such a thing might happen?

It's been documented and you've acknowledged that Pat Bowlen is leaving a lot of decisions to Joe Ellis. It's also been documented that Joe Ellis is not a fan of Cutler... you see the parallels?

Then that was an Ellis decision. Not really though. Bowlen will swear it was all him until he dies. You know why? He looks out for his guys and he knows there would be no support for mcdaniels if he put it all on mcdaniels. Bowlen will never be the guy to strip the team of the starting qb without the coach wanting it to happen.

Pull your head out of the sand and think for yourself. Do you believe everything that he says to the press? I hope you then realize he also took responsibility for every decision shanahan made the same as he is taking responsibility for this mcdaniels decision.

Punisher
09-10-2009, 08:27 AM
I taught this was a Lex Thread

colonelbeef
09-10-2009, 09:01 AM
You don't get groomed to buy a team, either you have the means or you do not. Hopefully somebody with more business and football acumen that Joe Ellis buys the team when Bowlen is gone

bowtown
09-10-2009, 09:11 AM
You don't get groomed to buy a team, either you have the means or you do not. Hopefully somebody with more business and football acumen that Joe Ellis buys the team when Bowlen is gone

Sorry, what exactly do you know about Joe Ellis's business acumen?

BroncoBuff
09-10-2009, 09:14 AM
Who the **** is Joe Ellis
He's a great guy.

and why does he get to make football decisions?
He doesn't.

;D

lex
09-10-2009, 09:21 AM
Joe Ellis is a Bush cousin, and has no previous football experience. Why he has so much say is a valid question, and concerns me to a great degree to be honest. It has been repeated numerous times that Ellis above all was anti-Cutler, I hope to god that this isn't just another case of a Bush getting a job because of legacy, and then ****ing it all up due to stupidity.

Wouldn't surprise me at all though. One can become president despite a series of professional and personal failures, stands to reason that another can get a cush job with the Broncos and **** that up too

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_10876363?source=rss

Ellis keeps Bush connection quiet
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Posted: 11/02/2008 12:30:00 AM MDT


Related Articles
Nov 2:
Broncos play the political fieldWhen the political dynasty that is the Bush family effectively ends with Tuesday's election, life as Joe Ellis knew it will become life as he's known it.

The majority of people familiar with the unassuming Ellis may know him as the Broncos' chief operating officer. Few know him as the cousin of our 43rd president, George W. Bush, and nephew of former President George Herbert Walker Bush.

"I'm proud of my family and their accomplishments and all that," Ellis said. "But I try to keep all that private. I don't share political beliefs or provide insight about family members or anything like that."

Ellis' mother is George H.W. Bush's sister.

It was a White House run that began in 1980 when Uncle George began his eight-year term as vice president to Ronald Reagan. The uncle got his own chance to lead our country in 1988.

And then in 2000, cousin George began what became an eight-year term in the Oval Office.

There were times when the Bushes were immensely popular in the polls. There were other times when their popularity took a hit. Up or down, Ellis was steady as they go.

"I have known Joe for almost 25 years and I have never known him to flaunt his connection or try to gain benefit in any way," said Jim Saccomano, the Broncos' longtime chief of public relations. "And I would venture to say more than 90 percent of the people employed here are not aware of it."

Proving his political naivete, Ellis once helped organize a campaign rally for cousin George at Dove Valley. He soon regretted the decision, as some Democratic season-ticket holders took offense.

"Joe is not political." Broncos owner Pat Bowlen said. "He's been a football guy all his life. He's a Bush, but it's sort of like a family thing to him. He keeps it there."



Not only does Pats comment not make sense but it shows how dumb and insolated these guys are. How can you be so oblivious!

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 09:34 AM
Then that was an Ellis decision. Not really though. Bowlen will swear it was all him until he dies. You know why? He looks out for his guys and he knows there would be no support for mcdaniels if he put it all on mcdaniels. Bowlen will never be the guy to strip the team of the starting qb without the coach wanting it to happen.

Pull your head out of the sand and think for yourself. Do you believe everything that he says to the press? I hope you then realize he also took responsibility for every decision shanahan made the same as he is taking responsibility for this mcdaniels decision.

This is different than taking responsibility for a decision. He gave the directive and then sent a letter to Broncos fans. You go find me another situation where Bowlen stepped in and took it upon himself to send a letter to the fans explaining a Shanahan decision.

You are blinded by hate and once again your focus in on one person. Joe Ellis, Brian Xanders, Pat Bowlen were all just innocent bystanders. Got it.

lex
09-10-2009, 09:39 AM
Then that was an Ellis decision. Not really though. Bowlen will swear it was all him until he dies. You know why? He looks out for his guys and he knows there would be no support for mcdaniels if he put it all on mcdaniels. Bowlen will never be the guy to strip the team of the starting qb without the coach wanting it to happen.

Pull your head out of the sand and think for yourself. Do you believe everything that he says to the press? I hope you then realize he also took responsibility for every decision shanahan made the same as he is taking responsibility for this mcdaniels decision.


I have to disagree with you on this one. If you go back a few weeks when Bowlen and Marshall first met (where Pat said he would trade Marshall), Josh was saying something totally different when talking to the media. I think Josh either was talking about not trading Marshall or even talking with him about a new deal.

Popps
09-10-2009, 09:46 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_10876363?source=rss



Not only does Pats comment not make sense but it shows how dumb and insolated these guys are. How can you be so oblivious!

Well, Bowlen was close with Shanahan who was also a big George Bush supporter, so perhaps he didn't see it as a big issue.

Coach Mike Shanahan, in particular, was heavily criticized for his open endorsement of Bush, which included a presentation of a Bronco jersey to the candidate.

http://www.commondreams.org/views/032600-104.htm

lex
09-10-2009, 09:53 AM
If this season is a colossal failure, does anyone think Joe Ellis will fall on his sword for Bowlen (like Slowik should have for Shanahan)?

worm
09-10-2009, 09:55 AM
Who the **** is Joe Ellis and why does he get to make football decisions?

It is absolutely mind boggling to me.

The Patriots lose Scott Pioli as Vice President of Player Personnel...their subject matter expert for business\contracts\PR\player personnel etc.

They then promote Nick Caserio from within, who has been with the Pats nine years.

Even with that promotion and the obvious confidence of the Franchise...the Pats weren't ready to hand the keys to the business end of the franchise over to Nick (and this is even with Bill Bellichick as coach and safety net!).

So the Pats go out and get a great football guy in Floyd Reese. A guy that has been at every level of football in his 32 years in the NFL. A guy that can network, direct the business, navigate personnel issues etc through experience of having been there and done that.

We lose our top football guy in Shanahan and replace his football business acumen with more power for a non football business guy in Ellis and a GM that was hand-picked by the coach, not for his experience (there is none!) but because he was easy to work with or control by Josh depending on who you ask.

Which organization is showing better leadership? I am still in shock over the BUSINESS decisions being made at the very top of the organization.

If Josh succeeds on the field it won't be due to the work that was done by the front office. In an effort to grab power, the powers currently controlling the Broncos are doing a disservice to themselves as a quality organization.

In the past, this is something Bill Bidwell would have been responsible for letting occur...not Bowlen.

footstepsfrom#27
09-10-2009, 09:59 AM
I learned absolutely nothing new from that article.
I wonder how much Klis makes. I got a kid looking for an after school job.

jhns
09-10-2009, 10:22 AM
I have to disagree with you on this one. If you go back a few weeks when Bowlen and Marshall first met (where Pat said he would trade Marshall), Josh was saying something totally different when talking to the media. I think Josh either was talking about not trading Marshall or even talking with him about a new deal.

I don't get what you are saying then? You again showed that Bowlen listened to his coach.

lex
09-10-2009, 10:25 AM
I don't get what you are saying then? You again showed that Bowlen listened to his coach.

To an extent he does.

jhns
09-10-2009, 10:28 AM
This is different than taking responsibility for a decision. He gave the directive and then sent a letter to Broncos fans. You go find me another situation where Bowlen stepped in and took it upon himself to send a letter to the fans explaining a Shanahan decision.

You are blinded by hate and once again your focus in on one person. Joe Ellis, Brian Xanders, Pat Bowlen were all just innocent bystanders. Got it.

LOL

You know why he didn't have to send letters for shanahans decisions? Because no one shanahan decision was ever close to being this dumb. This isn't rocket science.

Who said anything about others being innocent? I have only said our head coach wanted it to happen or it never happens. Period. Bowlen would not give away the starting QB if the coach doesn't want it to happen. I have openly hated on xanders just as much as mcdaniels. I have always said we need a fully new front office other than Bowlen. Bowlen is doing his job fine. He listens to te football guys for football decisions and he signs the checks.

jhns
09-10-2009, 10:29 AM
To an extent he does.

In the example you just gave, what the coach said is exactly what happened. Maybe I am reading it wrong.

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 10:54 AM
Bowlen would not give away the starting QB if the coach doesn't want it to happen.

How can you be so sure? You are practically making my point for me. This decision to trade a 25 year old franchise QB was so unique and so large that Pat Bowlen decided to step in and get involved.

Why all the news about Cutler not calling Bowlen back? If Bowlen is just sitting back and letting the "football guys" as you put it make decisions then why is he calling Jay Cutler? If Bowlen is just sitting back taking it all in then why does he fire Mike Shanahan?

I am not arguing that McDaniels wasn't involved. The whole saga starts with him talking to other teams about Cassel. I know. When he failed with that and Cassel was traded to the Chiefs he knew it was time to move forward.

The whole thing finally boiled over when the news broke that Jay wasn't calling Pat Bowlen back. Again, much more involvement than he's had in the past but we'll agree to disagree. My point is the trade finally went down when Bowlen wasn't getting a call back from Jay.

jhns
09-10-2009, 11:03 AM
How can you be so sure? You are practically making my point for me. This decision to trade a 25 year old franchise QB was so unique and so large that Pat Bowlen decided to step in and get involved.

Why all the news about Cutler not calling Bowlen back? If Bowlen is just sitting back and letting the "football guys" as you put it make decisions then why is he calling Jay Cutler? If Bowlen is just sitting back taking it all in then why does he fire Mike Shanahan?

I am not arguing that McDaniels wasn't involved. The whole saga starts with him talking to other teams about Cassel. I know. When he failed with that and Cassel was traded to the Chiefs he knew it was time to move forward.

The whole thing finally boiled over when the news broke that Jay wasn't calling Pat Bowlen back. Again, much more involvement than he's had in the past but we'll agree to disagree. My point is the trade finally went down when Bowlen wasn't getting a call back from Jay.

Bowlen also wasn't in the meetings with cutler unless I have the details mixed up. I'm sure he was mad about not getting calls. I also think that was an exagerated excuse used to try settling the fans. Either way, bowlen can be pissed and still wouldn't trade the starting qb without the coach saying he wants it to happen. Bowlen has never been the guy to go behind his coaches back with something like this. I'm not sure what in his history leads people to believe he is like that now. He is not a guy that makes it harder on his coach just because he gets mad about something.

You are correct that he doesn't include his coaches when making the decision to fire them. That is the only time.

If his personality did shift that dramatically overnight, someone needs to make him see a doctor because that isn't normal. That is exactly why the reporters that believe he made the decision are also the ones saying he has severe memory issues.

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 11:29 AM
Bowlen also wasn't in the meetings with cutler unless I have the details mixed up. I'm sure he was mad about not getting calls. I also think that was an exagerated excuse used to try settling the fans. Either way, bowlen can be pissed and still wouldn't trade the starting qb without the coach saying he wants it to happen. Bowlen has never been the guy to go behind his coaches back with something like this. I'm not sure what in his history leads people to believe he is like that now. He is not a guy that makes it harder on his coach just because he gets mad about something.

You are correct that he doesn't include his coaches when making the decision to fire them. That is the only time.

If his personality did shift that dramatically overnight, someone needs to make him see a doctor because that isn't normal. That is exactly why the reporters that believe he made the decision are also the ones saying he has severe memory issues.

I never said Bowlen went behind McDaniels back. No need to put words in my mouth. My point is and has been that the straw that broke the camels back was when Pat Bowlen was not receiving a return call from Jay Cutler. The announcement to trade Jay came from Pat Bowlen immediately following his attempts to reach Jay.

You've got McDaniels pinned as the guy who traded Jay Cutler and you seem to think Pat Bowlen just took a back seat and watched it go down. "He just listens to the football guys." I see it more like McDaniels listened to trade offers and may have even tried to leverage one offer against another. Jay blew up and both Jay and his agent as well as Josh McDaniels did a poor job of communicating about the issue.

However, prior to Bowlen's big announcement everybody was moving forward getting ready for camp knowing that Jay Cutler is not going to be traded. There were many articles that came out during that time that the Broncos were not listening to trade offers and he is not available for trade.

The Pat Bowlen announcement sort of came out of left field. There had been about a 10 day lull in McJaygate and the media/fans etc. were moving on. You can blame Josh McDaniels for listening/partaking in trade talks (I personally don't), you can blame him for doing a terrible job communicating with Jay (I do blame him for this), but in the end the straw that broke the camels back was when the big man Pat Bowlen was not receiving return calls from Jay Cutler.

We will never know for sure but it is my opinion that if Jay Cutler calls Bowlen back he would still be a Bronco.


BTW, Bowlen was involved in the meetings with Cutler. You can look it up yourself this time.

lex
09-10-2009, 11:40 AM
I never said Bowlen went behind McDaniels back. No need to put words in my mouth. My point is and has been that the straw that broke the camels back was when Pat Bowlen was not receiving a return call from Jay Cutler. The announcement to trade Jay came from Pat Bowlen immediately following his attempts to reach Jay.

You've got McDaniels pinned as the guy who traded Jay Cutler and you seem to think Pat Bowlen just took a back seat and watched it go down. "He just listens to the football guys." I see it more like McDaniels listened to trade offers and may have even tried to leverage one offer against another. Jay blew up and both Jay and his agent as well as Josh McDaniels did a poor job of communicating about the issue.

However, prior to Bowlen's big announcement everybody was moving forward getting ready for camp knowing that Jay Cutler is not going to be traded. There were many articles that came out during that time that the Broncos were not listening to trade offers and he is not available for trade.

The Pat Bowlen announcement sort of came out of left field. There had been about a 10 day lull in McJaygate and the media/fans etc. were moving on. You can blame Josh McDaniels for listening/partaking in trade talks (I personally don't), you can blame him for doing a terrible job communicating with Jay (I do blame him for this), but in the end the straw that broke the camels back was when the big man Pat Bowlen was not receiving return calls from Jay Cutler.

We will never know for sure but it is my opinion that if Jay Cutler calls Bowlen back he would still be a Bronco.


BTW, Bowlen was involved in the meetings with Cutler. You can look it up yourself this time.

This is really sensational language. I like how everyone describes it like Jay started throwing stuff and punching babies as if its not possible for him to matter-of-factly start looking out for what he feels is in his best interest.

jhns
09-10-2009, 11:47 AM
I never said Bowlen went behind McDaniels back. No need to put words in my mouth. My point is and has been that the straw that broke the camels back was when Pat Bowlen was not receiving a return call from Jay Cutler. The announcement to trade Jay came from Pat Bowlen immediately following his attempts to reach Jay.

You've got McDaniels pinned as the guy who traded Jay Cutler and you seem to think Pat Bowlen just took a back seat and watched it go down. "He just listens to the football guys." I see it more like McDaniels listened to trade offers and may have even tried to leverage one offer against another. Jay blew up and both Jay and his agent as well as Josh McDaniels did a poor job of communicating about the issue.

However, prior to Bowlen's big announcement everybody was moving forward getting ready for camp knowing that Jay Cutler is not going to be traded. There were many articles that came out during that time that the Broncos were not listening to trade offers and he is not available for trade.

The Pat Bowlen announcement sort of came out of left field. There had been about a 10 day lull in McJaygate and the media/fans etc. were moving on. You can blame Josh McDaniels for listening/partaking in trade talks (I personally don't), you can blame him for doing a terrible job communicating with Jay (I do blame him for this), but in the end the straw that broke the camels back was when the big man Pat Bowlen was not receiving return calls from Jay Cutler.

We will never know for sure but it is my opinion that if Jay Cutler calls Bowlen back he would still be a Bronco.


BTW, Bowlen was involved in the meetings with Cutler. You can look it up yourself this time.

How did he not go behind mcdaniels back if mcdaniels wasn't included in the decision?

You are correct that he was in the meetings, I don't know why I keep thinking he wasn't.

That is about it. I have nothing new. You will never convince me Bowlen would get rid of a starting QB without his coach/GM wanting it to happen. He isn't that kind of person or owner. I'm sure I'm not convincing anyone that they are wrong either and I get that. I just don't undrstand why people think Bowlen suddenly changed so much.

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 11:48 AM
This is really sensational language. I like how everyone describes it like Jay started throwing stuff and punching babies as if its not possible for him to matter-of-factly start looking out for what he feels is in his best interest.

Oh, I'm sorry. Jay handled it beautifully. He couldn't have handled it better.

Jay has always been an emotional pre-madonna so excuse me if I sensationalize his attitude.

baja
09-10-2009, 11:49 AM
You don't get groomed to buy a team, either you have the means or you do not. Hopefully somebody with more business and football acumen that Joe Ellis buys the team when Bowlen is gone

I got a kick out of that too.

Did I tell you I am being groomed to buy a McDonalds, they are super sizing me every day

lex
09-10-2009, 11:52 AM
Oh, I'm sorry. Jay handled it beautifully. He couldn't have handled it better.
Jay has always been an emotional pre-madonna so excuse me if I sensationalize his attitude.


Its ironic that you label him as emotional when youre only capable of describing the events of that time in ridiculous extremes.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-10-2009, 12:01 PM
I taught this was a Lex Thread

Naw. If it was, there would be 13 more with content that perfectly matches, because lex spends his evening sucking TJ's dick and licking blueflame's balls.

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 12:03 PM
How did he not go behind mcdaniels back if mcdaniels wasn't included in the decision?

You are correct that he was in the meetings, I don't know why I keep thinking he wasn't.

That is about it. I have nothing new. You will never convince me Bowlen would get rid of a starting QB without his coach/GM wanting it to happen. He isn't that kind of person or owner. I'm sure I'm not convincing anyone that they are wrong either and I get that. I just don't undrstand why people think Bowlen suddenly changed so much.

Please read carefullly. I never said he traded Jay without McDaniels, Xanders and Ellis being on board. That's obvious.

My point is and has been all along that there is much more to the equation than Josh McDaniels. All of your posts and your angst is directed at McDaniels and you NEVER recognize Bowlen, Xanders and Ellis as a part of the equation.

Bowlen was a major part of the entire debacle whether you like to believe it or not. When Jay wouldn't call him back it was like I said before: the straw that broke the camels back. Bowlen had enough and decided it was time to move forward. If Jay would have called Pat Bowlen back he would probably still be a Bronco.

Bottom Line: Do you believe that Pat Bowlen felt that it was time for Jay to go?

jhns
09-10-2009, 12:03 PM
Naw. If it was, there would be 13 more with content that perfectly matches, because lex spends his evening sucking TJ's dick and licking blueflame's balls.

You cry a lot.

lex
09-10-2009, 12:04 PM
Naw. If it was, there would be 13 more with content that perfectly matches, because lex spends his evening sucking TJ's dick and licking blueflame's balls.

Thats a good story. You should send that to Penthouse Forums.

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 12:06 PM
Naw. If it was, there would be 13 more with content that perfectly matches, because lex spends his evening sucking TJ's dick and licking blueflame's balls.

FYI, blueflame doesn't have any balls....:welcome:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-10-2009, 12:07 PM
You cry a lot.

Actually, I don't. Creative try though.

Not sure how it's crying to state the obvious: That lex is a disease and should be removed from the boards. He hasn't been, and that was the mods' decision. I've since ignored him, and that was a good decision.

But if I choose to remark on lex's... let's call it "staying power"... well, that's my right to do so.

If you don't like it, you can kindly kiss my ass.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-10-2009, 12:08 PM
FYI, blueflame doesn't have any balls....:welcome:

Oh, yes she does. They're bigger and harrier than lex's I'd bet.

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 12:09 PM
Its ironic that you label him as emotional when youre only capable of describing the events of that time in ridiculous extremes.

Like I said lex, how would you describe it? Jay hears rumors that his name has popped up in trade talks and he....

baja
09-10-2009, 12:09 PM
Oh, I'm sorry. Jay handled it beautifully. He couldn't have handled it better.

<b>Jay has always been an emotional pre-madonna </b>so excuse me if I sensationalize his attitude.

No actually Madonna is over 50, http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20219849,00.html

And Jay is not even 30 yet. so he is post madonna if anything. ;D

But I agree he is definitely a Prima donna and the Broncos are better off without him.

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 12:10 PM
No actually Madonna is over 50, http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20219849,00.html

And Jay is not even 30 yet. so he is post madonna if anything. ;D

But I agree he is definitely a Prima donna and the Broncos are better off without him.

Thanks for the correction. LOL Oops!

lex
09-10-2009, 12:14 PM
Like I said lex, how would you describe it? Jay hears rumors that his name has popped up in trade talks and he....

...he felt he was better off playing for another team, even though when he tried to sort out the aftermath initially, the FO was more interested in proving a point.

TonyR
09-10-2009, 12:19 PM
Bottom Line: Do you believe that Pat Bowlen felt that it was time for Jay to go?

I agree with you almost 100%, Brew. Not only do I think Bowlen made the directive to trade Cutler I actually think McD would have preferred to keep him. He was basically forced to choose between Kyle Orton and Jason Campbell, and the guy isn't stupid. I could be wrong, but when Bowlen felt disrespected by Cutler and couldn't take the insubordination or drama any more he ordered the Cutler trade. McD had no choice but to go along with it.

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 12:19 PM
...he felt he was better off playing for another team, even though when he tried to sort out the aftermath initially, the FO was more interested in proving a point.

By proving a point you mean not giving Jay a no trade guarantee?

That's what he said in the Chicago game a few weeks back.

baja
09-10-2009, 12:21 PM
Actually, I don't. Creative try though.

Not sure how it's crying to state the obvious: That lex is a disease and should be removed from the boards. He hasn't been, and that was the mods' decision. I've since ignored him, and that was a good decision.

But if I choose to remark on lex's... let's call it "staying power"... well, that's my right to do so.

If you don't like it, you can kindly kiss my ass.

Before this board TJ and I along with many other Bronco fans used the Denver Post's Broncos board (DPO) There was a guy there by the name of Buster Bronco and like lex and Bob he would post inflammatory content, the guy should have been banned but the DPO was an unmoderated board so he got to stay. What was interesting about this was whenever he posted board activity went through the roof. Everyone loved to flame him this development was not lost on TJ and he realizes that Boobs and lexs are good for board activity and he is right so neither one is going anywhere.

lex
09-10-2009, 12:23 PM
By proving a point you mean not giving Jay a no trade guarantee?

That's what he said in the Chicago game a few weeks back.

So, by acknowledging that Jay asked for a no trade clause, are you admitting that he actually did want to remain in Denver? Which is it?

baja
09-10-2009, 12:26 PM
I agree with you almost 100%, Brew. Not only do I think Bowlen made the directive to trade Cutler I actually think McD would have preferred to keep him. He was basically forced to choose between Kyle Orton and Jason Campbell, and the guy isn't stupid. I could be wrong, but when Bowlen felt disrespected by Cutler and couldn't take the insubordination or drama any more he ordered the Cutler trade. McD had no choice but to go along with it.

Tony is right this is exactly what happened and it was PLAINLY REPORTED at the time it was going down.

lex
09-10-2009, 12:29 PM
Tony is right this is exactly what happened and it was PLAINLY REPORTED at the time it was going down.


As told by the front office. And the front office never lies.

Mr.Meanie
09-10-2009, 12:30 PM
So, by acknowledging that Jay asked for a no trade clause, are you admitting that he actually did want to remain in Denver? Which is it?

Having a "no trade" clause is more about having leverage in trade discussions, and being able to block being traded to a garbage team who mortgages their future for you (see: Richard Seymour).

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 12:31 PM
So, by acknowledging that Jay asked for a no trade clause, are you admitting that he actually did want to remain in Denver? Which is it?

Not sure where you are going with this? I said Jay threw a fit... You said I was being ridiculously extreme. I'm neither here nor there on what Jay wanted other than a guarantee he wouldn't be traded.

Jay didn't get what he wanted and acted like a jerk. Yes, that's only my opinion. Clearly we see things differently.

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 12:33 PM
Tony is right this is exactly what happened and it was PLAINLY REPORTED at the time it was going down.

You mean in that nicely worded letter from Pat Bowlen to the fans?

No wait... McDonkeyballs... McPoopyFace...we must spread the hatred! Damnit! Pat Bowlen had nothing to do with it!

/sarcasm

jhns
09-10-2009, 12:34 PM
Please read carefullly. I never said he traded Jay without McDaniels, Xanders and Ellis being on board. That's obvious.

My point is and has been all along that there is much more to the equation than Josh McDaniels. All of your posts and your angst is directed at McDaniels and you NEVER recognize Bowlen, Xanders and Ellis as a part of the equation.

Bowlen was a major part of the entire debacle whether you like to believe it or not. When Jay wouldn't call him back it was like I said before: the straw that broke the camels back. Bowlen had enough and decided it was time to move forward. If Jay would have called Pat Bowlen back he would probably still be a Bronco.

Bottom Line: Do you believe that Pat Bowlen felt that it was time for Jay to go?

Yes, I think he thought it was time for jay to go or jay wouldn't be gone. Why did he think that though? The calls or the people he pays to tell him what to think?

Again, I have always thought they were all to blame. The simplest explanation as to why I direct everything at mcdaniels is that xanders doesn't matter and bowlen is alright when he gets someone that knows how to run a team. I root for mcdaniels to be fired so that xanders is also fired. I just don't mention xanders because in my eyes the only thing he does is write contracts. That was his specialty coming in and it is fairly obvious mcdaniels has the player side of the GM job.

I don't see Bowlens decisions being a problem when we get an experienced coach that knows how to deal with players and run a team. Again, Bowlen is doing his job perfectly. He listens to his football guys and signs the checks. The problem right now is those football guys are lost. I don't like owners that try running the team more than Bowlen does. I don't want a Jerry Jones. The problem is his choice in who he trusts to run the team. I wish he would start a normal GM/coach power structure.

The best explanation for not blaming Bowlen is that if Bowlen was running the team right now, without mcdaniels, we still have Cutler. That is with or without unreturned calls.

lex
09-10-2009, 12:35 PM
Not sure where you are going with this? I said Jay threw a fit... You said I was being ridiculously extreme. I'm neither here nor there on what Jay wanted other than a guarantee he wouldn't be traded.

Jay didn't get what he wanted and acted like a jerk. Yes, that's only my opinion. Clearly we see things differently.

So, then youre admitting that Jay wanted to remain in Denver?

baja
09-10-2009, 12:37 PM
As told by the front office. And the front office never lies.

Lex seriously I hate when people pull the "Fan card" but if you honestly believe the Broncos owner and front office are a pack of liars why would continue to support the team. This is a serious question.

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 12:38 PM
So, then youre admitting that Jay wanted to remain in Denver?

I have no idea. He wouldn't call the owner back.

jhns
09-10-2009, 12:40 PM
Tony is right this is exactly what happened and it was PLAINLY REPORTED at the time it was going down.

Good, now let's never hear that Shanahan made bad decisions again. The team PLAINLY REPORTED that every one of those decisions were Bowlen, just like this situation.

Mr.Meanie
09-10-2009, 12:41 PM
I root for mcdaniels to be fired so that xanders is also fired.

Will you be debuting your Ochocinco jersey this Sunday then?

Blueflame
09-10-2009, 12:41 PM
Naw. If it was, there would be 13 more with content that perfectly matches, because lex spends his evening sucking TJ's dick and licking blueflame's balls.

Unbelievably classy post.... ::)

lex
09-10-2009, 12:42 PM
Lex seriously I hate when people pull the "Fan card" but if you honestly believe the Broncos owner and front office are a pack of liars why would continue to support the team. This is a serious question.


"Supporting the team" is kind of broad. And by what is most likely your definition of supporting the team, Im most likely not supporting the team.

And also, its not so much a question of "believing" that they are liars as much as it has been proven.

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 12:43 PM
Yes, I think he thought it was time for jay to go or jay wouldn't be gone. Why did he think that though? The calls or the people he pays to tell him what to think?

Again, I have always thought they were all to blame. The simplest explanation as to why I direct everything at mcdaniels is that xanders doesn't matter and bowlen is alright when he gets someone that knows how to run a team. I root for mcdaniels to be fired so that xanders is also fired. I just don't mention xanders because in my eyes the only thing he does is write contracts. That was his specialty coming in and it is fairly obvious mcdaniels has the player side of the GM job.

I don't see Bowlens decisions being a problem when we get an experienced coach that knows how to deal with players and run a team. Again, Bowlen is doing his job perfectly. He listens to his football guys and signs the checks. The problem right now is those football guys are lost. I don't like owners that try running the team more than Bowlen does. I don't want a Jerry Jones. The problem is his choice in who he trusts to run the team. I wish he would start a normal GM/coach power structure.

The best explanation for not blaming Bowlen is that if Bowlen was running the team right now, without mcdaniels, we still have Cutler. That is with or without unreturned calls.

OK, well I see we're getting nowhere with this.

What did Bowlen do anyhow to make you have unwavering trust in him?

Is it the firing of Shanahan? Is it the "I don't really remember any conversation but I have short term memory loss" comment? Is it the fur coat?

jhns
09-10-2009, 12:45 PM
Will you be debuting your Ochocinco jersey this Sunday then?

Wait, so wanting McDaniels fired is the same as wanting the team to lose or rooting for another team? Boy are you messed up. The Broncos are much bigger than mcdaniels. If you don't think so, you are a mcdaniels fan, not a Broncos fan.

Oh well, at least you will follow him when he is gone.

Blueflame
09-10-2009, 12:46 PM
Oh, yes she does. They're bigger and harrier than lex's I'd bet.

They are... only not on my own body, if you get my drift...

lex
09-10-2009, 12:47 PM
I have no idea. He wouldn't call the owner back.


Yeah, and he was under no obligation to do so. His only obligation was to show up at the mandatory offseason training, which was a couple of weeks after he was traded. Why is it that you dont describe Bowlens reaction as emotional, similar to the way you described Jay's reaction?

Tombstone RJ
09-10-2009, 12:47 PM
I agree with you almost 100%, Brew. Not only do I think Bowlen made the directive to trade Cutler I actually think McD would have preferred to keep him. He was basically forced to choose between Kyle Orton and Jason Campbell, and the guy isn't stupid. I could be wrong, but when Bowlen felt disrespected by Cutler and couldn't take the insubordination or drama any more he ordered the Cutler trade. McD had no choice but to go along with it.

I agree. The directive to trade Cutler came from Bowlen and McD simply complied.

If you look at what McD was saying when all the crap was going down, he basically said "Cutler is our QB." Looking back on the situation, I believe McD wanted to keep Cutler if at all possible. It was not until Bowlen told McD to get rid of Cutler that the trade happened.

Now, McD could have told Pat that trading him was a bad idea and that the team would be better off with Cutler than without. But if your boss and the owner of the team says to trade Cutler (and McD is a few months into his new job) then he probably said "yes sir" and made the deal happen.

baja
09-10-2009, 12:49 PM
"Supporting the team" is kind of broad. And by what is most likely your definition of supporting the team, Im most likely not supporting the team.

And also, its not so much a question of "believing"; they are liars as much as it has been proven.

Could you be a little more clear about your "Not supporting the team", what does that look like?

jhns
09-10-2009, 12:50 PM
OK, well I see we're getting nowhere with this.

What did Bowlen do anyhow to make you have unwavering trust in him?

Is it the firing of Shanahan? Is it the "I don't really remember any conversation but I have short term memory loss" comment? Is it the fur coat?

So you don't like Bowlen? Like I said, he is the perfect owner in my eyes as long as he has the right coach. He is the opposite of Jerry Jones and Al Davis. The only problem now is he didn't pick the right coach this time.

No worries though. I'm sure mcd will be gone soon enough if we aren't winning a lot. Hopefully a better decision is made when getting our next coach.

The best part about him is he doesn't seem to be in this for a paycheck. He is not afraid to pay people and that is a good thing. Look how much he throws out on FAs alone every offseason.

Edit: I should add that the fur coat doesn't hurt.

lex
09-10-2009, 12:50 PM
Could you be a little more clear about your "Not supporting the team", what does that look like?

$$$

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 12:51 PM
I agree with you almost 100%, Brew. Not only do I think Bowlen made the directive to trade Cutler I actually think McD would have preferred to keep him. He was basically forced to choose between Kyle Orton and Jason Campbell, and the guy isn't stupid. I could be wrong, but when Bowlen felt disrespected by Cutler and couldn't take the insubordination or drama any more he ordered the Cutler trade. McD had no choice but to go along with it.

The letter to the fans and the timing of Bowlen's announcement certainly point in that direction.

But hey, Bowlen doesn't think for himself so it's all moot. He pays people to think for him. You know because it's a football decision when Jay Cutler refuses to call the owner back. Pat Bowlen needs McDaniels to tell him when Jay is being insubordinate.

baja
09-10-2009, 12:52 PM
$$$

OMG! Do they know about this??

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-10-2009, 12:52 PM
Could you be a little more clear about your "Not supporting the team", what does that look like?

And does it include leaving the board, or at least not commenting on every single thread with your incessant bull****?

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 12:53 PM
And does it include leaving the board, or at least not commenting on every single thread with your incessant bull****?

Dream on.

lex
09-10-2009, 12:55 PM
OMG! Do they know about this??

Time will tell. If there are enough people like me, they, no doubt, will.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-10-2009, 12:57 PM
OMG! Do they know about this??

HAHAHAHAHAA
Rep.

jhns
09-10-2009, 12:58 PM
The letter to the fans and the timing of Bowlen's announcement certainly point in that direction.

But hey, Bowlen doesn't think for himself so it's all moot. He pays people to think for him. You know because it's a football decision when Jay Cutler refuses to call the owner back. Pat Bowlen needs McDaniels to tell him when Jay is being insubordinate.

Bowlen said the same thing about all Shanahan decisions. He also stated that he doesn't know what he is doing and pays these guys to guide him. You laughing about that is kind of commical for these two facts.

Mr.Meanie
09-10-2009, 01:01 PM
Wait, so wanting McDaniels fired is the same as wanting the team to lose or rooting for another team? Boy are you messed up. The Broncos are much bigger than mcdaniels. If you don't think so, you are a mcdaniels fan, not a Broncos fan.

Oh well, at least you will follow him when he is gone.

If McD wins the AFCW this year, it will guarantee he is here for a long, long time. The only way he gets fired is if the Broncos absolutely tank this year and next year with no end in sight.

Do you root for the team to tank games so they get higher draft spots too?

jhns
09-10-2009, 01:13 PM
If McD wins the AFCW this year, it will guarantee he is here for a long, long time. The only way he gets fired is if the Broncos absolutely tank this year and next year with no end in sight.

Do you root for the team to tank games so they get higher draft spots too?

Why would I root for Seattle to have a better pick? You don't even make sense.

Please though, show me a single time I have siad something about wanting the team to lose. I think you have a reading problem because I don't remember saying it.

Doesn't matter anyways, we won't be seeing you after this season. I wonder what team you will get to root for next.

Mr.Meanie
09-10-2009, 01:24 PM
Why would I root for Seattle to have a better pick? You don't even make sense.

Please though, show me a single time I have siad something about wanting the team to lose. I think you have a reading problem because I don't remember saying it.

Doesn't matter anyways, we won't be seeing you after this season. I wonder what team you will get to root for next.

Again, the only way McD gets fired is if he absolutely tanks the Broncos.

So, who are you more excited about... Maualuga or Coles?

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 01:26 PM
Why would I root for Seattle to have a better pick? You don't even make sense.

Please though, show me a single time I have siad something about wanting the team to lose. I think you have a reading problem because I don't remember saying it.

Doesn't matter anyways, we won't be seeing you after this season. I wonder what team you will get to root for next.

By stating that you want to see McDaniels fired you are essentially saying you want the Broncos to lose.

lex
09-10-2009, 01:27 PM
By stating that you want to see McDaniels fired you are essentially saying you want the Broncos to lose.

Sometimes you have to sacrifice a pawn to take the queen.

jhns
09-10-2009, 01:28 PM
Again, the only way McD gets fired is if he absolutely tanks the Broncos.

So, who are you more excited about... Maualuga or Coles?

Me wanting him fired and when he gets fired are two completely different things. I want him gone now. I want him gone 5 months ago actually. If he wins enough, he can change my mind.

So, what team do you think you get to root for next season. Remember, they have to be bad AND need a new coach. The teams that got new coaches this year won't want mcdaniels next year. Who do you want to root for that is a realistic destination?

jhns
09-10-2009, 01:32 PM
By stating that you want to see McDaniels fired you are essentially saying you want the Broncos to lose.

That has to be the dumbest thing I have ever read. Thanks for making us all a little less intelligent.

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 01:34 PM
That has to be the dumbest thing I have ever read. Thanks for making us all a little less intelligent.

Wow, So you think Bowlen will fire McDaniels if the Broncos are winning?

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 01:37 PM
That has to be the dumbest thing I have ever read. Thanks for making us all a little less intelligent.

jhns:

No worries though. I'm sure mcd will be gone soon enough if we aren't winning a lot.

jhns
09-10-2009, 01:40 PM
Wow, So you think Bowlen will fire McDaniels if the Broncos are winning?

Let's take a step back and think for a minute.

I wanted him fired about 5-6 months ago. Bowlen hasn't fired him yet. Get it?

No? Well then, let's spell it out. Someone doesn't hav e to actually be fired for you to want them fired. Just because bowlen won't fire him in whatever situation you make up doesn't mean I would like seeing him fired.

Is that better or should I continue?

Do I think he will be fired if he wins? Probably not. Does that make mean I can't want him fired? No.

jhns
09-10-2009, 01:43 PM
jhns:

LOL

So to you, saying mcdaniels will probably be fired if he isn't winning is dumb? I figured it was obvious but needed said. I guess it wasn't such an obvious statement and really did need to be said.

worm
09-10-2009, 01:43 PM
This thread gives me a headache.

Mr.Meanie
09-10-2009, 01:44 PM
It's simple math:

1. If the Broncos win, McD is not fired and will be with the team for a long, long time.
2. If the Broncos lose for the next few years, McD will be fired.

But we already know what your preference would be, so I'm not even going to ask.
And as far as my team, unlike some of the "fans" here I'll be cheering on the Broncos faithfully every Sunday no matter who the coach, QB, owner or GM is...0-16 or 16-0.

footstepsfrom#27
09-10-2009, 01:47 PM
Pushing 100 posts on the idea that Bowlen still runs the Broncos.

Let me start a thread called, "McDaniels is still the coach".

jhns
09-10-2009, 01:48 PM
It's simple math:

1. If the Broncos win, McD is not fired and will be with the team for a long, long time.
2. If the Broncos lose for the next few years, McD will be fired.

But we already know what your preference would be, so I'm not even going to ask.
And as far as my team, unlike some of the "fans" here I'll be cheering on the Broncos faithfully every Sunday no matter who the coach, QB, owner or GM is...0-16 or 16-0.

No fan of this team thinks any one coach(or person) is above the team. You are not a fan of this team. It is insulting that you would even try claiming as much after the crap you spew.

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 01:56 PM
LOL

So to you, saying mcdaniels will probably be fired if he isn't winning is dumb? I figured it was obvious but needed said. I guess it wasn't such an obvious statement and really did need to be said.

OK, I'll break it down for you.

jhns says: I root for mcdaniels to be fired so that xanders is also fired.

AND

jhns says: No worries though. I'm sure mcd will be gone soon enough if we aren't winning a lot.

THEN

jhns says: Please though, show me a single time I have siad something about wanting the team to lose. I think you have a reading problem because I don't remember saying it.

SO

BrewCrew says: By implying that you want McDaniels to be fired you are essentially saying you want the Broncos to lose.


I posted your quote because you drew the parallel between wins and losses and the coach being fired and then came out with this little gem:

That has to be the dumbest thing I have ever read. Thanks for making us all a little less intelligent.


For the record, I don't think it's possible to make you any less intelligent.

jhns
09-10-2009, 02:01 PM
OK, I'll break it down for you.


AND



THEN



SO




I posted your quote because you drew the parallel between wins and losses and the coach being fired and then came out with this little gem:




For the record, I don't think it's possible to make you any less intelligent.

Again, I wanted him fired directly after the cutler fiasco. Did bowlen fire him? No you say? Well how can that be? I wanted him fired which can only come from a situation that Bowlen actually would fire him for. I don't understand how I can want him to be fired but he isn't fired if what you guys are saying is true.....

Get real. Grow a brain.

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 02:09 PM
Again, I wanted him fired directly after the cutler fiasco. Did bowlen fire him? No you say? Well how can that be. I wanted him fired which can only come from a situation that Bowlen actually would fire him for. I don't understand how I can want him to be fired but he isn't fired if what you guys are saying is true.....

Get real. Grow a brain.

Do you actually read your quotes?

They aren't past tense.

"I root for McDaniels to be fired" would imply current as in now.

"No worries, I'm sure McDaniels will be gone soon enough" posted today would imply that you are rooting for him to be fired "soon enough."

Where in those statments did you tell the world that you were talking about 5-6 months ago?

Mr.Meanie
09-10-2009, 02:10 PM
No fan of this team thinks any one coach(or person) is above the team. You are not a fan of this team. It is insulting that you would even try claiming as much after the crap you spew.

Ha!

I'm not sure how you got the idea I'm putting one person above the team out of "I'll be cheering on the Broncos faithfully every Sunday no matter who the coach, QB, owner or GM is.".

Projecting a little?

Hey listen... no one will judge you if you admit you are hoping the Broncos tank so McD will get fired. If you have a take on something, own it. Don't go through convoluted gymnastics to try backpedaling on your opinions.

They're just opinions...if you have one different than everyone else's, take pride in it.

jhns
09-10-2009, 02:17 PM
Do you actually read your quotes?

They aren't past tense.

"I root for McDaniels to be fired" would imply current as in now.

"No worries, I'm sure McDaniels will be gone soon enough" posted today would imply that you are rooting for him to be fired "soon enough."

Where in those statments did you tell the world that you were talking about 5-6 months ago?

http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/Upload/you%20are/You-Are-Fcking_Idiot.jpg

I wasn't talking 5-6 months ago there as I still want him fired now or any day now. Is this really that complicated to you? What exactly are you getting from those statements that says I also didn't want him fired before.

That example is to show you how dumb you are being. I can want mcdaniels fired without his job actually being in jeopardy for real. I'm not so sure what is so hard to understand about this.

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 02:21 PM
I wasn't talking 5-6 months ago there as I still want him fired now or any day now. Is this really that complicated to you? What exactly are you getting from those statements that says I also didn't want him fired before.

That example is to show you how dumb you are being. I can want mcdaniels fired without his job actually being in jeopardy for real. I'm not so sure what is so hard to understand about this.

Holy crap! You are impossible!

I was trying to help you by explaining that making statements like you were, essentially equates to wanting the Broncos to lose. Why? Because the only way he gets fired any time soon is for the Broncos to lose a lot of games.

I give up man. You win by war of attrition. I'm bored with you.

jhns
09-10-2009, 02:22 PM
Ha!

I'm not sure how you got the idea I'm putting one person above the team out of "I'll be cheering on the Broncos faithfully every Sunday no matter who the coach, QB, owner or GM is.".

Projecting a little?

Hey listen... no one will judge you if you admit you are hoping the Broncos tank so McD will get fired. If you have a take on something, own it. Don't go through convoluted gymnastics to try backpedaling on your opinions.

They're just opinions...if you have one different than everyone else's, take pride in it.

You put mcdaniels above the team. I can't want him gone because he hurts the team, it has to be that I want the team to fail to get him gone. I root for the team to win every game no matter who is there. I also want what is best for the team and I don't think mcdaniels PAST actions are good for the team. I want him fired for it. I don't want him fired for the seasons results.

See I put the team first. You put mcdaniels first. Everything is all about mcdaniels to you. Get over him. No real fan of this team would want these decisions to continue.

jhns
09-10-2009, 02:26 PM
Holy crap! You are impossible!

I was trying to help you by explaining that making statements like you were, essentially equates to wanting the Broncos to lose. Why? Because the only way he gets fired any time soon is for the Broncos to lose a lot of games.

I give up man. You win by war of attrition. I'm bored with you.

You have to be one of the dumbest posters I have ever dealt with. Thanks for playing.

Mr.Meanie
09-10-2009, 02:29 PM
Ah you're right. Completely upgrading the DC position, RB corps, LB corps, secondary, DLine, WR corps, Special Teams and conditioning routines is a terrible strategy. Just truly awful.

Good point, you really schooled me there!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-10-2009, 02:35 PM
You put mcdaniels above the team. I can't want him gone because he hurts the team, it has to be that I want the team to fail to get him gone. I root for the team to win every game no matter who is there. I also want what is best for the team and I don't think mcdaniels PAST actions are good for the team. I want him fired for it. I don't want him fired for the seasons results.

See I put the team first. You put mcdaniels first. Everything is all about mcdaniels to you. Get over him. No real fan of this team would want these decisions to continue.

Your argument is beyond absurd. Really.

In order for the team to succeed, McDaniels needs to succeed. As long as he's employed with the Denver Broncos, I will root for him to succeed.

His decisions aren't made in a vacuum. And decisions already made are not going to color my perception or my hopes for the team.

That's not the case with you. Cutler's gone, you're sad about it, and you want to bitch and moan instead of moving on. It's astounding.

Again: it has nothing to do with putting McDaniels over the team. At all. If the team fails, I'll want him gone too. "Putting him over the team" would be going 4-12 for the next three years and hoping he keeps his job.

Idiot.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-10-2009, 02:36 PM
Ah you're right. Completely upgrading the DC position, RB corps, LB corps, secondary, DLine, WR corps, Special Teams and conditioning routines is a terrible strategy. Just truly awful.

Good point, you really schooled me there!

Wouldn't it be terrible of those awful decisions continued?!?!?!?!?!

jhns
09-10-2009, 02:36 PM
Ah you're right. Completely upgrading the DC position, RB corps, LB corps, secondary, DLine, WR corps, Special Teams and conditioning routines is a terrible strategy. Just truly awful.

Good point, you really schooled me there!

Of course you don't find fault in anything he does. We established this. You are a McDaniels fan. So you never answered me. What teams do you want him to go to? Which do you want to root for the most?

jhns
09-10-2009, 02:42 PM
Your argument is beyond absurd. Really.

In order for the team to succeed, McDaniels needs to succeed. As long as he's employed with the Denver Broncos, I will root for him to succeed.

His decisions aren't made in a vacuum. And decisions already made are not going to color my perception or my hopes for the team.

That's not the case with you. Cutler's gone, you're sad about it, and you want to b**** and moan instead of moving on. It's astounding.

Again: it has nothing to do with putting McDaniels over the team. At all. If the team fails, I'll want him gone too. "Putting him over the team" would be going 4-12 for the next three years and hoping he keeps his job.

Idiot.

I'm f'n with a kid trying to play the fan card. Get over yourself crybaby. I could care less what that guyu is a fan of.

You think cutler is the only bad move he made? LOL Good joke.

Wanting McDaniels fired still has nothing to do with rooting for the team to be good or bad. To connect the two is dumb and doesn't make much sense. Again, I wanted him fired 5 months ago and he wasn't. If I can only want him fired for situations that actually get him fired, how can that be? I would love an answer to this and none of you can give it.

TailgateNut
09-10-2009, 02:44 PM
OK, I'll break it down for you.


AND



THEN



SO




I posted your quote because you drew the parallel between wins and losses and the coach being fired and then came out with this little gem:




For the record, I don't think it's possible to make you any less intelligent.

You got it. The only way someone can "make you less intelligent" is to continue debating with Lex and jhns.

They want the broncos to loose, but don't want them to loose.
Get it!

Mr.Meanie
09-10-2009, 02:50 PM
Of course you don't find fault in anything he does. We established this. You are a McDaniels fan. So you never answered me. What teams do you want him to go to? Which do you want to root for the most?

I'm for anything that makes the Broncos successfull, and right now it seems the best chance is for McD. When it's not, I'll want him gone like I wanted Shanahan gone.

Do you now see how rooting for the team to be successful is also rooting for McD to be successful?

Hell, I thought Slowick was going to be a joke, but I was hoping he would be the next Jim Johnson and I was rooting for him, but it didn't turn out that way and I'm glad he's gone.

I'm hoping McD will be the next Cowher, Bellichick, or (prime) Shanahan. If not, I hope he's gone.

BTW... I posted a list of upgrades on the entire team. Do you disagree all those positions have been upgraded?

jhns
09-10-2009, 03:22 PM
I'm for anything that makes the Broncos successfull, and right now it seems the best chance is for McD. When it's not, I'll want him gone like I wanted Shanahan gone.

Do you now see how rooting for the team to be successful is also rooting for McD to be successful?

Hell, I thought Slowick was going to be a joke, but I was hoping he would be the next Jim Johnson and I was rooting for him, but it didn't turn out that way and I'm glad he's gone.

I'm hoping McD will be the next Cowher, Bellichick, or (prime) Shanahan. If not, I hope he's gone.

BTW... I posted a list of upgrades on the entire team. Do you disagree all those positions have been upgraded?

Honestly? They could be. I have heard that every position has been upgraded for years now only for it to not be true. I am to the point that I have to see it to believe it. As for why I want him fired now, I will give you my list.

1) Cutler. This is obvious and shouldn't need explained even if you don't agree.

2) First rounder for second rounder as we rebuild. I get that Smith could be great but if we didn't get ripped off we would have Smith plus some other stuff. Rebuilding teams do NOT give away their firsts. If you are one that says no one wants a top 10, then all I have to say is show me the top 10 team that traded for a single second to get rid of it.

3) Spending just as many resources this offseason on offense as we did on defense, including the majority of the draft picks. I think Nolans scheme and some of the stopgap players we brought in will work wonders. I still don't get how you can spend so much on a very good young offense (that ended up with only 2 new starters now) as you do our franchises worst ever defense. It doesn't make sense at all.

4) This is a maybe but it is a horrible idea to give Marshall a new contract or trade him. If he gets either of these, and the new contract has been rumored, we will have given 2 players exactly what they want after they acted like children. All players are like children. They see one get away with something and they all will try it. If they see a second get away with it, it is over from there on. Good luck keeping the locker room in check in the future. Of course, the fans will just say all the players were babies and we didn't need them even though it is our front offices fault that the baby in them is being brought to the surface.

In all, I am rooting for the team to do good but I don't see it happening. I think McDaniels has made far to many high risk moves and he doesn't have the experience to sit there and tell me they are the right ones. No team in the history of this league has won by doing things the way we are. Shoot, we had many "me-first" and immature players on our SB teams. They have no clue how to deal with players. McDaniels would have been the perfect hire if we had brought in an experienced GM to do the GM work.

rastaman
09-10-2009, 03:33 PM
I agree with you almost 100%, Brew. Not only do I think Bowlen made the directive to trade Cutler I actually think McD would have preferred to keep him. He was basically forced to choose between Kyle Orton and Jason Campbell, and the guy isn't stupid. I could be wrong, but when Bowlen felt disrespected by Cutler and couldn't take the insubordination or drama any more he ordered the Cutler trade. McD had no choice but to go along with it.

It really doesn't matter btwn "He-said...She said". Both Bowlen, McD, and Cutler are ready to move on. Denver got two 1st round picks and Cutler went to a team that is committed to him. The next 5 or 10 years will prove whether Bowlen and McD made great decision or Cutler made a great decision.

If Cutler is tearing up NFC North with stats and wins, then Ayers had better be tearing it up Defensively either as a rookie or in two years. Who ever McD drafts with another No.1 pick from the Bears from the Cutler trade, McD had better hope whoever he drafts is an impact player or will be a Pro Bowler in two or three years. Those are huge expectations, but this is why the Broncos believed getting two first round picks for Cutler is to their advantage. Now this all depends if Cutler continues his pro bowl streak as a Bears QB.

McDaniel's is in unchartered waters right now when it comes to his QB's. He needs to find a QB of Brady's caliber or a QB of Cassels caliber in order to a McDaniel's offense. Over the next two years be prepared to see the Broncos offensive line resemble that of the current NE Patriots' Offensive line. Remember, 30 something head coaches in the NFL were successful in the first jobs b/c they had a pro bowl/HOF Qb running their offense. McDaniels traded away his pro bowl Qb and this move may prove to be what ushers McD back to NE as their OC.

Mr.Meanie
09-10-2009, 04:27 PM
Honestly? They could be. I have heard that every position has been upgraded for years now only for it to not be true. I am to the point that I have to see it to believe it. As for why I want him fired now, I will give you my list.

1) Cutler. This is obvious and shouldn't need explained even if you don't agree.

2) First rounder for second rounder as we rebuild. I get that Smith could be great but if we didn't get ripped off we would have Smith plus some other stuff. Rebuilding teams do NOT give away their firsts. If you are one that says no one wants a top 10, then all I have to say is show me the top 10 team that traded for a single second to get rid of it.

3) Spending just as many resources this offseason on offense as we did on defense, including the majority of the draft picks. I think Nolans scheme and some of the stopgap players we brought in will work wonders. I still don't get how you can spend so much on a very good young offense (that ended up with only 2 new starters now) as you do our franchises worst ever defense. It doesn't make sense at all.

4) This is a maybe but it is a horrible idea to give Marshall a new contract or trade him. If he gets either of these, and the new contract has been rumored, we will have given 2 players exactly what they want after they acted like children. All players are like children. They see one get away with something and they all will try it. If they see a second get away with it, it is over from there on. Good luck keeping the locker room in check in the future. Of course, the fans will just say all the players were babies and we didn't need them even though it is our front offices fault that the baby in them is being brought to the surface.

In all, I am rooting for the team to do good but I don't see it happening. I think McDaniels has made far to many high risk moves and he doesn't have the experience to sit there and tell me they are the right ones. No team in the history of this league has won by doing things the way we are. Shoot, we had many "me-first" and immature players on our SB teams. They have no clue how to deal with players. McDaniels would have been the perfect hire if we had brought in an experienced GM to do the GM work.

Hey I think those are fair arguments against McD, to be honest.

1.) On Cutler - I am sure if he could do things all over again, I would bet Cutler would still be on the team. He made a mistake and didn't handle it properly, and it blew up. I would fault McD, Bowlen, Cutler and Cutler's agent for making it a far bigger deal than it ever should have been. But it is what it is.

2.) On the trade - I can see the argument why people would want 2 first round picks next year. A major problem though is the cost of signing 4 first round picks, and they could end up being major anchors if they don't pan out.

If you believe the FO, they had Smith rated very highly on their board, and saw him slipping. They saw an opportunity to:

a) get a 1st round talent that is slipping
b) get him for 2nd round money
c) get him in immediately to start learning behind 2 vets who may be close to loosing a step
d) get Smith 1 year of learning under Baily and Goodman before actually having to pay for him (give up the 1st round pick)
e) add CB depth, a serious position of need as we all found out last year

The major thing I would fault McD and Xanders on is not specifiying "the lower of the 2" picks in the trade with SEA.

3.) On Marshall - I think it's a bit silly to be mad at McD for something that hasn't happened yet, based on an unsubstantiated rumor. If Marshall is traded (he wont be) it would be a blunder, or if he's extended now after his tantrum (hopefully he wont be) that would be a blunder...but so far none of that has happened outside of blog rumors.


So I agree, there were a couple of missteps by McDaniels. Now here is what I like:

1. Bringing on Nolan - about time we have a real DC, and I think it will show instantly.
2. Bringing in vet leadership - Dawk, Davis, Goodman, Reid, Fields, Holliday, Gaffney, Buckhalter - all of these are quality signings who will mentor our rookies in those exact positions. No more Simeon Rice/Sam Adams type garbage.
3. Drafting smart, high character rookies to learn behind these vets.
4. Understanding a franchise RB is vital to the offense.
5. Focusing on ST, and drafting or hiring guys based on versatility.
6. Focus on stretching in drills, conditioning, and practices in pads.

I would say between his few things he's done wrong, and the large number of things he's done right, he deserves a chance to prove himself before everyone keeps calling him derogatory names and rooting for him to fail.

TheReverend
09-10-2009, 04:46 PM
I would say between his few things he's done wrong, and the large number of things he's done right, he deserves a chance to prove himself before everyone keeps calling him derogatory names and rooting for him to fail.

Good post on the whole.

This is the only part I'll address.

I'd say anyone reasonable can admit there are questionable decisions he's made that certainly AT LEAST warrant speculation. For me it's produced less of a "wait and see" and more a "I'll believe it when I see it" attitude.

Now, if he can go out on the field and produce, then he deserves every ounce of praise from everyone.

lex
09-10-2009, 04:50 PM
Good post on the whole.

This is the only part I'll address.

I'd say anyone reasonable can admit there are questionable decisions he's made that certainly AT LEAST warrant speculation. For me it's produced less of a "wait and see" and more a "I'll believe it when I see it" attitude.

Now, if he can go out on the field and produce, then he deserves every ounce of praise from everyone.


Yeah, people want others to give him something he hasnt earned.

BroncoBuff
09-10-2009, 05:31 PM
Naw. If it was, there would be 13 more with content that perfectly matches, because lex spends his evening sucking TJ's dick and licking blueflame's balls.

Wtf is that?

Bronx33
09-10-2009, 05:35 PM
Wtf is that?


It's called a ban ..

BroncoBuff
09-10-2009, 05:51 PM
It's called a ban ..
Let's hope so.

baja
09-10-2009, 06:39 PM
Sometimes you have to sacrifice a pawn to take the queen.

I really don't get you guys that have written off McD before evan one game has been played nor having a clear picture of what transpired this off season relative to Cutler. It seems to me a reasonable person would hold off the condemnation of your favorite teams new coach at least until 5 or 6 games into the season. I think you are reacting to an unknown. Silly if you ask me.

baja
09-10-2009, 07:20 PM
Hey I think those are fair arguments against McD, to be honest.

1.) On Cutler - I am sure if he could do things all over again, I would bet Cutler would still be on the team. He made a mistake and didn't handle it properly, and it blew up. I would fault McD, Bowlen, Cutler and Cutler's agent for making it a far bigger deal than it ever should have been. But it is what it is.

2.) On the trade - I can see the argument why people would want 2 first round picks next year. A major problem though is the cost of signing 4 first round picks, and they could end up being major anchors if they don't pan out.

If you believe the FO, they had Smith rated very highly on their board, and saw him slipping. They saw an opportunity to:

a) get a 1st round talent that is slipping
b) get him for 2nd round money
c) get him in immediately to start learning behind 2 vets who may be close to loosing a step
d) get Smith 1 year of learning under Baily and Goodman before actually having to pay for him (give up the 1st round pick)
e) add CB depth, a serious position of need as we all found out last year

The major thing I would fault McD and Xanders on is not specifiying "the lower of the 2" picks in the trade with SEA.

3.) On Marshall - I think it's a bit silly to be mad at McD for something that hasn't happened yet, based on an unsubstantiated rumor. If Marshall is traded (he wont be) it would be a blunder, or if he's extended now after his tantrum (hopefully he wont be) that would be a blunder...but so far none of that has happened outside of blog rumors.


So I agree, there were a couple of missteps by McDaniels. Now here is what I like:

1. Bringing on Nolan - about time we have a real DC, and I think it will show instantly.
2. Bringing in vet leadership - Dawk, Davis, Goodman, Reid, Fields, Holliday, Gaffney, Buckhalter - all of these are quality signings who will mentor our rookies in those exact positions. No more Simeon Rice/Sam Adams type garbage.
3. Drafting smart, high character rookies to learn behind these vets.
4. Understanding a franchise RB is vital to the offense.
5. Focusing on ST, and drafting or hiring guys based on versatility.
6. Focus on stretching in drills, conditioning, and practices in pads.

I would say between his few things he's done wrong, and the large number of things he's done right, he deserves a chance to prove himself before everyone keeps calling him derogatory names and rooting for him to fail.

Very good post Mr. Meanie.

I would add;

f) Smith for second round money = every dollar saved on a player means a dollar you have to spend elsewhere when you are working under a capped system. The idea being you don't have a few over paid stars and a bunch of holes.

The best thing that McD seems to understand is locker room chemistry, it is at least as important as talent when it comes to winning football games and even more important if you want to field a good team year after year as vs. making a run and rebuilding.

baja
09-10-2009, 07:25 PM
Good post on the whole.

This is the only part I'll address.

I'd say anyone reasonable can admit there are questionable decisions he's made that certainly AT LEAST warrant speculation. For me it's produced less of a "wait and see" and more a "I'll believe it when I see it" attitude.

<b>Now, if he can go out on the field and produce, then he deserves every ounce of praise from everyone.

I see you are slowly and cleverly covering your ass. ;D

TailgateNut
09-10-2009, 07:28 PM
I see you are slowly and cleverly covering your ass. ;D


It's called BACKPEDDLING. He covers his *** for different reasons.

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 07:40 PM
You have to be one of the dumbest posters I have ever dealt with. Thanks for playing.

:spit:

I'm one of the dumbest posters you have ever seen?

Like I said, do you even read your posts?

Here's one of your gems from this very thread.


I wanted him fired which can only come from a situation that Bowlen actually would fire him for. I don't understand how I can want him to be fired but he isn't fired if what you guys are saying is true....

WTF are you trying to say?

I think I need a translator. But hey, I'm the dumb one. :thumbsup:

lex
09-10-2009, 07:50 PM
I really don't get you guys that have written off McD before evan one game has been played nor having a clear picture of what transpired this off season relative to Cutler. It seems to me a reasonable person would hold off the condemnation of your favorite teams new coach at least until 5 or 6 games into the season. I think you are reacting to an unknown. Silly if you ask me.

I expect the team to win 10 games.

jhns
09-10-2009, 07:57 PM
I would say between his few things he's done wrong, and the large number of things he's done right, he deserves a chance to prove himself before everyone keeps calling him derogatory names and rooting for him to fail.

I have never rooted for him to fail or called him any cute nickname. We will never agree because I don't feel those are small mistakes. I think those are mistakes that should get you fired. They aren't even ok from a rookie in my eyes. Like I have said. I get people won't agree with that. I still will cry about it until proven wrong. Sorry, just how it is.

jhns
09-10-2009, 07:58 PM
:spit:

I'm one of the dumbest posters you have ever seen?

Like I said, do you even read your posts?

Here's one of your gems from this very thread.

WTF are you trying to say?

I think I need a translator. But hey, I'm the dumb one. :thumbsup:

I wouldn't expect you to understand my advanced english. I just call it like I see it.

baja
09-10-2009, 07:59 PM
I expect the team to win 10 games.

I expect I will win the lottery and if I don't I can say major F A I L. Does that seem fair?

lex
09-10-2009, 08:02 PM
I expect I will win the lottery and if I don't I can say major F A I L. Does that seem fair?


You can do what you want where you buying lottery tickets is concerned. It has nothing to do with me.

Popcorn Sutton
09-10-2009, 08:02 PM
I wouldn't expect you to understand my advanced english. I just call it like I see it.

:spit:

baja
09-10-2009, 08:04 PM
You can do what you want where you buying lottery tickets is concerned. It has nothing to do with me.

You're not fooling anyone lex.

lex
09-10-2009, 08:08 PM
You're not fooling anyone lex.

Im trying to fool someone?

footstepsfrom#27
09-10-2009, 08:12 PM
I see you are slowly and cleverly covering your ass. ;D
Did that turn you on? ;)

baja
09-10-2009, 08:26 PM
Did that turn you on? ;)

If being turned includes puking than yes.

baja
09-10-2009, 08:27 PM
Im trying to fool someone?

Lex you are, now don't try an be coy you suck at it.

lex
09-10-2009, 08:48 PM
Lex you are, now don't try an be coy you suck at it.

If you say so.

baja
09-10-2009, 08:49 PM
If you say so.

Actually that was a good effort.

lex
09-10-2009, 08:57 PM
Actually that was a good effort.


Just so Im clear, what am I trying to do?

baja
09-10-2009, 08:57 PM
be coy

lex
09-10-2009, 08:58 PM
be coy

How?

baja
09-10-2009, 08:59 PM
I over estimated you.

baja
09-10-2009, 09:00 PM
or under

lex
09-10-2009, 09:04 PM
I over estimated you.


This is more about you than me.

joe9999
09-12-2009, 04:53 PM
Many who hate what has become of the Broncos have left this board. So a disproportionate number of posters here support the coach and owner.

Same occured at Chicago preseason game. Many support Cutler's decision to leave and are pulling for him. But only the boos were heard at the game. This is to be expected and normal.

It will come down to $$$ in the end. If fans continue to support the team win or fail, then there is not much reward for putting a winning team on the field. If fans revolt, then Bowlen will be forced to make some changes.

Let the season unfold. I'm interested to see if there is melt down and if Junior implodes. Luckily the Raiders and Chiefs are in the division which should give at least 4 wins.

Br0nc0Buster
09-12-2009, 05:07 PM
Many who hate what has become of the Broncos have left this board. So a disproportionate number of posters here support the coach and owner.

Same occured at Chicago preseason game. Many support Cutler's decision to leave and are pulling for him. But only the boos were heard at the game. This is to be expected and normal.

It will come down to $$$ in the end. If fans continue to support the team win or fail, then there is not much reward for putting a winning team on the field. If fans revolt, then Bowlen will be forced to make some changes.

Let the season unfold. I'm interested to see if there is melt down and if Junior implodes. Luckily the Raiders and Chiefs are in the division which should give at least 4 wins.

um what?
no some have left becasue of the constant whining
The ones who are upset with things are here to let us know over and over and over and over and over again

Br0nc0Buster
09-12-2009, 05:08 PM
I wouldn't expect you to understand my advanced english. I just call it like I see it.

what are you like 12?