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Chris
09-07-2009, 09:05 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview09/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=4446985

Time to prove this hobbit wrong.

If someone could do a photo of a wing wraith in broncos gear smacking a fleeing John Clayton I'd much appreciate it.

Finger Roll
09-07-2009, 09:14 AM
Just saw it. He said we look like an expansion team

Rulon Velvet Jones
09-07-2009, 09:23 AM
He said last week the defense could be worse than last season. That alone leads me to believe he hasn't seen a lick of this team in the preseason.

DenverBrit
09-07-2009, 09:26 AM
Clayton is much better at 'insider' gossip than evaluation.

In fact, most ESPN hacks are no better than the clowns at SI.

mizzoutigers
09-07-2009, 09:30 AM
clayton has so much experience playing the game and evaluating talent. he's a real stud. just reeks of athletic ability

Bob's your Information Minister
09-07-2009, 09:38 AM
Well, yeah. He's being nice.

NYBronco
09-07-2009, 09:38 AM
He even has McDaniels on the coaching "hotseat".

I guess Shanahan's inability to get the Broncos in the playoffs over the past several years and more signifcantly last year didn't qualify for the "hotseat".

Chris
09-07-2009, 09:39 AM
Here's my biggest problem with all these guys - they always pick the obvious favourites and then are never accountable when they spend extra effort ****ting on a team that ends up doing well.

There is no accountability in sports journalism.

Kid A
09-07-2009, 09:40 AM
Just saw it. He said we look like an expansion team

Guess we'll see. That kind of statement almost betrays a disdain for our team on John's part as opposed to him thinking we simply aren't very good.

From what I've seen the defense certainly doesn't look worse and if the offense takes a dip it certainly isn't going to be to expansion team levels. Would even the more skeptical fans here agree with me on this? There's a difference (in my mind) between a rebuilding team with some problems and "expansion team" ineptness on the field, and I just haven't seen any signs of the later during the preseason.

Maybe he really believes we are that bad, maybe it's media sensationalism. Either way there's nothing wrong with a little extra motivation for the team, though.

Rohirrim
09-07-2009, 09:44 AM
He's right.

RhymesayersDU
09-07-2009, 09:44 AM
ROFL @ the responses to this thread.


When somebody disses the Broncos, they're "know nothing clowns" or "hacks" or whatever insult you can come up with.

When somebody praises the Broncos (or bashes the Raiders/Chiefs/Chargers), you people can't post the links here fast enough.

L-M-F-A-O

scorpio
09-07-2009, 09:47 AM
ROFL @ the responses to this thread.


When somebody disses the Broncos, they're "know nothing clowns" or "hacks" or whatever insult you can come up with.

When somebody praises the Broncos (or bashes the Raiders/Chiefs/Chargers), you people can't post the links here fast enough.

L-M-F-A-O

It's almost like people on this message board are fans of the team.

Weird.

azbroncfan
09-07-2009, 09:48 AM
I hate John Clayton. He is a di#k. He said something negative about the broncos. I would think he was the greatest if he said Denver was going to go 13-3. How come everytime on ESPN says something negative posters get their panties in a bunch?

Rock Chalk
09-07-2009, 09:48 AM
Im fairly certain no one has ever claimed John Clayton on this board to be a genius.

broncos-rock
09-07-2009, 09:49 AM
He sure nailed that Shanny to KC rumor......done deal.

errand
09-07-2009, 09:50 AM
My question is when have any of these so-called "experts" been right? I mean most of them had the Chargers winning it all last season because they almost beat the Pats in AFC title game the previous season without LT and Rivers playing on one leg.

I recall a player when asked what a 2-0 start meant for his team...his reply was "Well, that means we'll finish somewhere between 2-14....and 16-0"

If Clayton knew what the hell he was talking about....why would they play the season. Just hand the Lombardi to whomever they feel is deserving.

errand
09-07-2009, 09:55 AM
ROFL @ the responses to this thread.


When somebody disses the Broncos, they're "know nothing clowns" or "hacks" or whatever insult you can come up with.

When somebody praises the Broncos (or bashes the Raiders/Chiefs/Chargers), you people can't post the links here fast enough.

L-M-F-A-O

OK...so when have they been right about us...or any other team dude?

You do realize last season Clayton thought the Lions were gonna contend for their division title because of the following reasons -

[] they went 4-0 in pre-season

[] Favre retired and unproven Aaron Rodgers was their QB.

[] Vikings had unsettled QB situation between journeyman Frerotte and unproven Tavarias Jackson.

[] Bears defense was getting older and they too had unstable QB situation with Grossman-Orton duel

Look people in the media love to say they were right....when the truth be told....they rarely are.

Chris
09-07-2009, 09:56 AM
My question is when have any of these so-called "experts" been right? I mean most of them had the Chargers winning it all last season because they almost beat the Pats in AFC title game the previous season without LT and Rivers playing on one leg.

I recall a player when asked what a 2-0 start meant for his team...his reply was "Well, that means we'll finish somewhere between 2-14....and 16-0"

If Clayton knew what the hell he was talking about....why would they play the season. Just hand the Lombardi to whomever they feel is deserving.

This is really my issue. Football is a hard game to predict (as are most sports) but the way they jump on several teams bandwagons and collectively decide to **** on others is just silly. When the "top" teams fail to perform and others do well, these guys just move on and act as if everyone's had their memories erased. They are never held accountable for bad picks. If their reputation was actually at stake, maybe they'd watch the games a bit more closely. If it's going to be opinion at all times, take a risk once in a while when you're making picks. This doesn't just have to do with the Broncos.

This begs the question... what would the league be like without all the commentary and ESPN "analysis"? I'd bet people would have to start studying at games for themselves and the picture they'd paint would be quite different.

errand
09-07-2009, 09:59 AM
It's almost like people on this message board are fans of the team.

Weird.

Yeah...imagine that...Bronco fans upset about bad things being said about the Broncos.

DarkHorse
09-07-2009, 10:03 AM
http://www.rotodorks.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/hu_071102nfl_johnclayton.jpg



http://www.the700level.com/images/2008/03/24/cryptkeeper.jpg

Punisher
09-07-2009, 10:04 AM
Just saw it. He said we look like an expansion team

Expected the worst to come and i'm not kidding..........

Jason in LA
09-07-2009, 10:04 AM
It's no surprise that people here don't agree with it, but most non Bronco fans would totally agree with it.

Think about it like this, if Clayton said last year that he thought the Lions would go 3 and 13, Lion fans would be pissed and lash out against him. That's just being a fan.

Clayton surely isn't the only one predicting that the Broncos will suck ass.

Atwater His Ass
09-07-2009, 10:06 AM
It's not like Clayton is out to lunch with that prediction. New head coach, new DC, new defense, no new significant defensive additions, lost our best player and franchise QB, #1 WR having issues, OL all of a sudden looks vunerable, DL is still horrible, Orton has been horrific in pre-season, Moreno is injured, front office has made questionable decision after questionable decision...this team is in a huge state of flux atm, and that doesn't usually translate into winning.

It's going to be a very long season.

Punisher
09-07-2009, 10:10 AM
It's not like Clayton is out to lunch with that prediction. New head coach, new DC, new defense, no new significant defensive additions, lost our best player and franchise QB, #1 WR having issues, OL all of a sudden looks vunerable, DL is still horrible, Orton has been horrific in pre-season, Moreno is injured, front office has made questionable decision after questionable decision...this team is in a huge state of flux atm, and that doesn't usually translate into winning.

It's going to be a very long season.

Man oh man all that sucks so much cock and yet its all true,I really can't believe the epic fail this team has been threw :unamused:

Jason in LA
09-07-2009, 10:15 AM
For everybody questioning Clayton, should these "insiders" stop making predictions? Is it really that serious? It's not like these predictions really mean anything. It's just part of their job. Their job is to tell us what they think. Nobody wants to solely hear or read about the who, where, what, when and why. That can get boring. These guys are supposed to give us something to talk about. Something to argue about. Clayton is just doing his job. So what's the big deal?

WolfpackGuy
09-07-2009, 10:16 AM
He's way out of line.
Only Broncos fans can talk bad about the Broncos.
5-11, here we come!

watermock
09-07-2009, 10:16 AM
Id's say last years team was a solid 6 with really 1 side of he ball to fix. We had money and picks, even before trading Cutler.

We MAY get 6 wins for a variety of reasons. 5-11 is optimistic.

I really can't imagine a worse offseason in Denver.

Every move was either quetionable or outright stupid.

Punisher
09-07-2009, 10:18 AM
For everybody questioning Clayton, should these "insiders" stop making predictions? Is it really that serious? It's not like these predictions really mean anything. It's just part of their job. Their job is to tell us what they think. Nobody wants to solely hear or read about the who, where, what, when and why. That can get boring. These guys are supposed to give us something to talk about. Something to argue about. Clayton is just doing his job. So what's the big deal?

Argue about what? I won't say predicting the broncos go 3-13 is a balls to the walls prediction because we really might go 3-13 seriously.

Chris
09-07-2009, 10:23 AM
It's not like Clayton is out to lunch with that prediction. New head coach, new DC, new defense, no new significant defensive additions, lost our best player and franchise QB, #1 WR having issues, OL all of a sudden looks vunerable, DL is still horrible, Orton has been horrific in pre-season, Moreno is injured, front office has made questionable decision after questionable decision...this team is in a huge state of flux atm, and that doesn't usually translate into winning.

It's going to be a very long season.

Your perception. It's all a matter of opinion.

New head coach is clearly better and more in touch with modern football

OL vulnerable because we lost our RG for 2 games? The rest of the line is still top 5 in the league.

Orton had a great second game in seattle and the third game was marred by penalties which routinely started him at 1st and 20 - not good news in this style of offense.

That big armed QB isn't necessary for the style of offense we're running. That big armed QB also caused a lot of turnovers for us last season that we will limit this year.

Moreno is going to miss 1 game tops. He looked great in his brief appearance.

Marshall will help us and by most accounts he's coming back and going to contribute. That said, we still have a very solid WR corps and Eddie Royal is poised to take a huge leap this year and become a true #1.

The starting DL has been getting consistent pressure all preseason. The secondary looks very good - Goodman is a big upgrade over Bly and Dawkins is a huge addition. Our defense is ranked 6th in preseason... I'm not expecting us to be there during the regular season but I think we jump from 30th to middle of the pack. My concern is our new LBs covering in space.

The only DOOM I see is Dumervil crashing in for a sack.

RhymesayersDU
09-07-2009, 10:24 AM
It's not like Clayton is out to lunch with that prediction. New head coach, new DC, new defense, no new significant defensive additions, lost our best player and franchise QB, #1 WR having issues, OL all of a sudden looks vunerable, DL is still horrible, Orton has been horrific in pre-season, Moreno is injured, front office has made questionable decision after questionable decision...this team is in a huge state of flux atm, and that doesn't usually translate into winning.

It's going to be a very long season.

None of that is true. Truthfully, McDaniels has us right where we need to be, and besides, you never know which teams will suck and which won't. Our schedule only looks hard on paper. Broncos will probably win around 10 games.

/the orange-glassed morons on this board

azbroncfan
09-07-2009, 10:24 AM
Id's say last years team was a solid 6 with really 1 side of he ball to fix. We had money and picks, even before trading Cutler.

We MAY get 6 wins for a variety of reasons. 5-11 is optimistic.

I really can't imagine a worse offseason in Denver.

Every move was either quetionable or outright stupid.

Good thing for you is you can jump off Denver's ship and root for the Vikings. They are going to be a pretty good team even before Farve. Must be nice having two teams.

BroncoMan4ever
09-07-2009, 10:26 AM
I hate John Clayton. He is a di#k. He said something negative about the broncos. I would think he was the greatest if he said Denver was going to go 13-3. How come everytime on ESPN says something negative posters get their panties in a bunch?

my gues on that would be because nobody who works for ESPN(excluding Schefter) knows or gives a **** about any teams not on the east coast or in Dallas, and when they attempt to have serious discussion about west coast teams, they are all misinformed or just talking out their ass.

his talk on the state of the defense just proves that he has no idea what he is talking about with the Broncos. just from the preseason we have already shown we are a lot better than last season and the season before defenses.

broncofan7
09-07-2009, 10:27 AM
He's right.

That was my prediction too --beat CLE<,KC and OAK all at home. Everything else --a big fat L--I hope and pray that McD proves me wrong...in order to at least maintain the level that Shanny left the team in--he needs to go 8-8 ---otherwise his actions this past off season can be summarized as nothing but failure........

Bronx33
09-07-2009, 10:30 AM
yawn....

azbroncfan
09-07-2009, 10:32 AM
my gues on that would be because nobody who works for ESPN(excluding Schefter) knows or gives a **** about any teams not on the east coast or in Dallas, and when they attempt to have serious discussion about west coast teams, they are all misinformed.

his talk on the state of the defense just proves that he has no idea what he is talking about with the Broncos. just from the preseason we have already shown we are a lot better than last season and the season before defenses.

But why do people even care what they say? It's no different than some random guy on the streets opinion.

BroncoMan4ever
09-07-2009, 10:35 AM
Id's say last years team was a solid 6 with really 1 side of he ball to fix. We had money and picks, even before trading Cutler.

We MAY get 6 wins for a variety of reasons. 5-11 is optimistic.

I really can't imagine a worse offseason in Denver.

Every move was either quetionable or outright stupid.

what moves are questionable? outside of the Cutler situation this has been a good offseason, and truthfully with the way he bitched like a little girl about possibly being traded and cried that McDaniels wouldn't guarantee his job was completely safe, tells me he was too mentally soft to ever become elite in the NFL, and we don't need him.

the Marshall situation is not his fault and anyone who thinks it is, is a retard

the draft was fine, we took players we felt could contribute to the team, and didn't just draft anyone just because of the position they played.

we addressed ST this offseason, which is something Mike never did

we have completely overhauled our defense

this team would kick the **** out of last years team

Jason in LA
09-07-2009, 10:36 AM
Argue about what? I won't say predicting the broncos go 3-13 is a balls to the walls prediction because we really might go 3-13 seriously.

Well, you have a point there, so I'm not going to argue with you. ;D. But there are a whole lot of people here that are ready to give you the boot over that prediction.

BroncoMan4ever
09-07-2009, 10:37 AM
But why do people even care what they say? It's no different than some random guy on the streets opinion.

i agree, ESPN reporting is basically like listening to a drunk friend who doesn't know what he is talking about trying to sound intelligent and should be thought of the same way.

broncofan7
09-07-2009, 10:38 AM
what moves are questionable? outside of the Cutler situation this has been a good offseason, and truthfully with the way he b****ed like a little girl about possibly being traded and cried that McDaniels wouldn't guarantee his job was completely safe, tells me he was too mentally soft to ever become elite in the NFL, and we don't need him.

the Marshall situation is not his fault and anyone who thinks it is, is a retard

the draft was fine, we took players we felt could contribute to the team, and didn't just draft anyone just because of the position they played.

we addressed ST this offseason, which is something Mike never did

we have completely overhauled our defense

this team would kick the **** out of last years team

LOL--Even against last year's D--I doubt Orton could lead them to more than 17 points........

Atwater His Ass
09-07-2009, 10:41 AM
Your perception. It's all a matter of opinion.

New head coach is clearly better and more in touch with modern football

We'll see. McD has a lot more to prove coming into this season due to his mis-management of the off-season.


OL vulnerable because we lost our RG for 2 games? The rest of the line is still top 5 in the league.

Kuper is down and Hamilton is seeing a back specialist and we don't exactly have world beaters backing them up.


Orton had a great second game in seattle and the third game was marred by penalties which routinely started him at 1st and 20 - not good news in this style of offense.

Orton has showed that he can throw a screen pass. I mean what was the latest excuse around here that he sucked? Something like he had too much time in the pocket. Hilarious!

That big armed QB isn't necessary for the style of offense we're running. That big armed QB also caused a lot of turnovers for us last season that we will limit this year.

Only people in Denver think this, fyi.

Moreno is going to miss 1 game tops. He looked great in his brief appearance.

He was ok. There's a pretty large drop off after him on the depth chart though.


Marshall will help us and by most accounts he's coming back and going to contribute. That said, we still have a very solid WR corps and Eddie Royal is poised to take a huge leap this year and become a true #1.

I'm more worried about the mis-management of Marshall then what we'll get from him on the field. McD doesn't know how to deal with players.


The starting DL has been getting consistent pressure all preseason. The secondary looks very good - Goodman is a big upgrade over Bly and Dawkins is a huge addition. Our defense is ranked 6th in preseason... I'm not expecting us to be there during the regular season but I think we jump from 30th to middle of the pack. My concern is our new LBs covering in space.


Sorry bro, the DL is horrible and the front 7 isn't much better. You're again looking at a bunch of guys that are backups on most other teams.

Dawkins was a good pickup, but he isn't going to be much a factor outside of leadership.

Archer81
09-07-2009, 10:42 AM
We might go 3-13. We might go 5-11. But we also might go 11-5 or 13-3. Thats the whole point of going through the regular season.

:Broncos:

Atwater His Ass
09-07-2009, 10:43 AM
i agree, ESPN reporting is basically like listening to a drunk friend who doesn't know what he is talking about trying to sound intelligent and should be thought of the same way.

except clayton is making $$$

broncofan7
09-07-2009, 10:47 AM
We'll see. McD has a lot more to prove coming into this season due to his mis-management of the off-season.



Kuper is down and Hamilton is seeing a back specialist and we don't exactly have world beaters backing them up.



Orton has showed that he can throw a screen pass. I mean what was the latest excuse around here that he sucked? Something like he had too much time in the pocket. Hilarious!



Only people in Denver think this, fyi.



He was ok. There's a pretty large drop off after him on the depth chart though.



I'm more worried about the mis-management of Marshall then what we'll get from him on the field. McD doesn't know how to deal with players.



Sorry bro, the DL is horrible and the front 7 isn't much better. You're again looking at a bunch of guys that are backups on most other teams.

Dawkins was a good pickup, but he isn't going to be much a factor outside of leadership.

LOL! only after Cincy beats us by 14 in week 1 will these people BEGIN to see what we have seen just by looking at the fundamental flaw in McDaniels's plan: GETTING RID OF A YOUNG FRANCHISE QB WITHOUT EVEN AN AVERAGE REPLACEMENT ON HAND.
I like what McD has done with the hiring of Nolan, signing of Dawkins and Goodman and the conversion to the 3-4--just imagine how a Jay Cutler led offense will look with a team that gives up almost 1 TD less per game than we did last year--which is what I expect us to be around this year (21-22 pts /gm)---well I guess we can watch that--IN CHICAGO.

Hamrob
09-07-2009, 10:49 AM
I agree that Mcdaniels let his ego cast Cutler aside.

I agree that we cannot build cohesion on either side of the ball when we have turnover like we do year in and year out.

I agree that our schedule alone will make it hard to find more W's than L's this season.

I don't agree that Mcdaniels is on the hot-seat yet. As much as he's pissed me off allowing Cutler to leave and trying to turn our team into Patriots West, I also believe he's a pretty good coach. If we end up being competetive this year despite our W-L record, then I think he's safe

I don't agree that our defense is worse than last years. In fact, I think Nolan is one heck of a defensive coach and I'm willing to bet our defense is much improved over last years. Had Shannny just fired Slowick and hired Nolan...oh well!

Although, I don't think our Offense will be as powerful as last year's, I believe it will be a top 10 Offense and we will score as many points as last years.

I believe our Special Teams will be much improved, allowing us to be more competetive in terms of field position this year.

I believe this is still a good football team with too many star/star-to-be players to not be competetive (Clady, Royal, Marshall, Sheffler, Moreno, Harris, Wiegmann, Hillis, Champ, Dawkins, DJ Williams, Dumervil & maybe Ayers). That's alot of talent in my book.

I believe our W/L's despite all the noise and our tough schedule will REALISTICLY be somewhere between 6-10 wins this season. If I were going to bet on our Broncos...I'd take the over!

BroncoBuff
09-07-2009, 10:49 AM
3 wins is too low ... KC and Oakland at home, that's 2 right there. We'll pop out a couple-three more.

5 wins minimum ... 7 maybe.

Pseudofool
09-07-2009, 10:51 AM
It doesn't matter that we improved nearly every unit outside of the QB position; the MSM is always going to focus on symbolic losses more than real losses. And the nuance of better offensive and defensive schemes is total lost on a schmuck like Clayton.

I see between 6 and 10 wins depending on how things break. But more than that, there'll be a clear direction where the team is heading and the mediocrity will be short lived. JMHO.

BroncoBuff
09-07-2009, 10:52 AM
I like what McD has done with the hiring of Nolan ... and the conversion to the 3-4. Just imagine how a Jay Cutler led offense will look with a team that gives up almost 1 TD less per game than we did last year.

Bingo.

Ayers and Alphonso might be pretty good, but no way was that a good trade

Spider
09-07-2009, 10:52 AM
ROFL @ the responses to this thread.


When somebody disses the Broncos, they're "know nothing clowns" or "hacks" or whatever insult you can come up with.

When somebody praises the Broncos (or bashes the Raiders/Chiefs/Chargers), you people can't post the links here fast enough.

L-M-F-A-O
Bronco fans shouldnt be upset ? what should they say ............. Man that Clayton is wrong on alot of things , but he may have nailed this one .......
when was the last time Denver went 3-13 ? Better yet 4-12 ?
worst record I remember After 1977 was 2-7 in a strike year of 82 ........
Tradition young man tradition ......... Hell we even survived the Red Miller and Wade Phillips era ........... Are you and Clayton going to sit there and tell me Phillips was a better HC then McD?

Pseudofool
09-07-2009, 10:54 AM
LOL! only after Cincy beats us by 14 in week 1 will these people BEGIN to see what we have seen just by looking at the fundamental flaw in McDaniels's plan: GETTING RID OF A YOUNG FRANCHISE QB WITHOUT EVEN AN AVERAGE REPLACEMENT ON HAND.
Look, even if I grant you that point. Every other unit has either drastically improved (Secondary, Linebackers, Running backs, even the defensive line looks good, special teams) or stayed at a high level (WRs and OL). Only a fool couches their entire analysis on the evaluation of one position.

FWIW, Orton is decidedly average.

Spider
09-07-2009, 10:55 AM
10-6 people ........we wont be flashy , win ugly , but will fight to the end in every game ....

Hercules Rockefeller
09-07-2009, 10:57 AM
3 wins is too low ... KC and Oakland at home, that's 2 right there. We'll pop out a couple-three more.

5 wins minimum ... 7 maybe.

KC x2, Oak x2, Cin, Cle, and I don't think Dallas or the Skins are going to be as good as people think (the Skins especially). Not saying they'll win all those games, but it's not going to be as dire as some think. And I'll never pencil in a home game as an automatic loss either.

I'm still at 5 or 6, the same place I was right after San Diego smoked them in the final game.

Pseudofool
09-07-2009, 10:57 AM
Bingo.

Ayers and Alphonso might be pretty good, but no way was that a good tradeAyers was part of the deal, but Smith wasn't. Anytime draftpicks are a major part of the deal (like prospects in baseball) it takes time to evaluate the haul.

What would have been a fair trade for Jay in your opinion? (Don't answer "I wouldn't have traded him." Acknowledge that it was your Boss who told you to do it. Be a sport and play along.)

Atwater His Ass
09-07-2009, 11:02 AM
Look, even if I grant you that point. Every other unit has either drastically improved (Secondary, Linebackers, Running backs, even the defensive line looks good, special teams) or stayed at a high level (WRs and OL). Only a fool couches their entire analysis on the evaluation of one position.

FWIW, Orton is decidedly average.

We have not "drastically" improved in all other areas. The secondary is better, but the front 7 are just as bad as last year and they have a new defensive scheme to learn. That's not a good combination.

And QB is by far the most important position on the team. People keep harping on it because it is that important. You remember what Elway did in the 80s with zero talent around him?

TheDave
09-07-2009, 11:04 AM
Look, even if I grant you that point. Every other unit has either drastically improved (Secondary, Linebackers, Running backs, even the defensive line looks good) or stayed at a high level (WRs and OL). Only a fool couches their entire analysis on the evaluation of one position.

FWIW, Orton is decidedly average.

I think your a typical spoiled Bronco Fan... Who has always had a good QB under center.

In the last 2 decades Greise was easily the worst of the bunch... and even he went to the pro-bowl. A lot of people are about to see what happens when you have crap at a position that handles the ball every offensive play.

I'll give you that we are improved at many other areas on this team... I'm just not sure it is enough to overcome that one critical and significant downgrade.

Most Bronco fans are about to learn how important that position really is.

Spider
09-07-2009, 11:05 AM
In a way I wish we would go 1-15 ..86 a lot of these bandwagon fair weather fans

Hercules Rockefeller
09-07-2009, 11:09 AM
What would have been a fair trade for Jay in your opinion? (Don't answer "I wouldn't have traded him." Acknowledge that it was your Boss who told you to do it. Be a sport and play along.)

If you go by what was reported
-Denver's initial asking price was 2 1sts and 2 3rds, and the 2 1sts had to be on the table to be in the game
-all final teams had offered up at least 2 1sts (re: there was enough interest that the Broncos didn't have to come off the 2 1st requirement)
-sounds like Quinn was in Cleveland's offer too
-Skins were only offering picks
-Detroit offered the 1st overall

Final teams
Chicago
Cleveland
Washington
NYJ

Made offers
Tampa
Detroit

I'd take
Cleveland's offer of Quinn and 2 1sts (if that was truly offered, but I doubt it was), but also sounds like Mangini got cold feet; would still take Quinn, 5th overall, and their 2nd this year.
Detroit if the offer was more than the 1st oveall (#20 or '10 1st), so it wouldn't be just a Stafford for Cutler swap.

broncofan7
09-07-2009, 11:10 AM
FWIW, Orton is decidedly average.

Kyle Orton is in the bottom 10 of NFL starters--hence he is below average in a league of 32 teams.

QB is THE most important position on the field and when you downgrade to such a degree as did we, your defense or running game had better be on par with the NYG or Ravens if we wish to compete for a playoff spot--I LOVED the Moreno pick and I hope that he can be a 1400 yard back for us--but I am skeptical to say the least that this will occur with Mcd as HC and Orton as our starter. And our defense is so far off from a NYG or Ravens level that even to discuss such a comparison this season would make the rest of my post seem irrelevant because of the taint of blatant homerism in such a comparison.......face it--we are SCREWED and ALL AT MCD's doing......

BroncoMan4ever
09-07-2009, 11:11 AM
LOL! only after Cincy beats us by 14 in week 1 will these people BEGIN to see what we have seen just by looking at the fundamental flaw in McDaniels's plan: GETTING RID OF A YOUNG FRANCHISE QB WITHOUT EVEN AN AVERAGE REPLACEMENT ON HAND.
I like what McD has done with the hiring of Nolan, signing of Dawkins and Goodman and the conversion to the 3-4--just imagine how a Jay Cutler led offense will look with a team that gives up almost 1 TD less per game than we did last year--which is what I expect us to be around this year (21-22 pts /gm)---well I guess we can watch that--IN CHICAGO.

give me a break on the what if Jay had a defense allowing a TD less a game bull****. that is such a retarded stat, every QB in the league would put up a lot of wins if their defense limited teams to 20 a game. hell, Orton is something like 12-2 in those situations.

and he wasn't a franchise QB, a franchise QB would will the team to a win in the final 3 games of the season to get his team into the playoffs. a franchise QB can take over a game and carry his team on his back if necessary. Elway, Manning, Brady, if any of those 3 had a 3 game lead to get into the playoffs, regardless of how the defense or lack of running game looked, they would do whatever it took to get 1 more win. that is a franchise QB. Cutler decided to mope and isolate himself from his teammates, he is NOT a franchise QB.

broncofan7
09-07-2009, 11:11 AM
In a way I wish we would go 1-15 ..86 a lot of these bandwagon fair weather fans

Please- a 1-15 record would only make the ranks of fans like me who think that McD **** the bed grow a thousand fold..........

BroncoMan4ever
09-07-2009, 11:14 AM
10-6 people ........we wont be flashy , win ugly , but will fight to the end in every game ....

i'm with you on that. we are going to be aggressive and unlike recent years, we aren't going to see a team that collapses in the 2nd half of the season or in the 4th quarter, and we aren't going to see anymore of the lazy play we have been for the last few years. all around this will be a better team

Archer81
09-07-2009, 11:15 AM
How did we ever win a game without a "franchise" QB...OH NOES...


:Broncos:

wolf754life
09-07-2009, 11:16 AM
buy your kicks from the man in white...............

powder pleasure for your nose tonight........

see you in hell johnnie c

Atwater His Ass
09-07-2009, 11:16 AM
give me a break on the what if Jay had a defense allowing a TD less a game bull****. that is such a retarded stat, every QB in the league would put up a lot of wins if their defense limited teams to 20 a game. hell, Orton is something like 12-2 in those situations.

and he wasn't a franchise QB, a franchise QB would will the team to a win in the final 3 games of the season to get his team into the playoffs. a franchise QB can take over a game and carry his team on his back if necessary. Elway, Manning, Brady, if any of those 3 had a 3 game lead to get into the playoffs, regardless of how the defense or lack of running game looked, they would do whatever it took to get 1 more win. that is a franchise QB. Cutler decided to mope and isolate himself from his teammates, he is NOT a franchise QB.

can't wait to rely on orton to win games for us. so exciting knowing we got rid of that dead weight cutler and got a real baller back there now to lead us to glory.

Hamrob
09-07-2009, 11:18 AM
Overall, I agree, we will be a better team. But, if you're trying to argue that we're a better team without Cutler than with him...you're just being ignorant!

Spider
09-07-2009, 11:18 AM
Please- a 1-15 record would only make the ranks of fans like me who think that McD **** the bed grow a thousand fold..........

but then we all would finally agree on something ..........

Spider
09-07-2009, 11:20 AM
i'm with you on that. we are going to be aggressive and unlike recent years, we aren't going to see a team that collapses in the 2nd half of the season or in the 4th quarter, and we aren't going to see anymore of the lazy play we have been for the last few years. all around this will be a better team

60 minutes of hard nosed football = Damn hard to beat , Franchise qb or not ....

broncofan7
09-07-2009, 11:21 AM
give me a break on the what if Jay had a defense allowing a TD less a game bull****.

Educate yourself son.

I give you the 2001 6-10 Colts quarterbacked by the GREAT Peyton Manning--not even HE could overcome such defensive futility:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&statisticCategory=SCORING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2001&seasonType=REG

I give you the 1984 Denver Broncos 13-3:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=SCORING&season=1984&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

offensively they averaged 22.1 pts/game good for 11th in the NFL

defensively they averaged giving up 15.1 pts/game--good for 2nd in the NFL

The Pats have won 3 Superbowl's this decade--guess what their team scoring defense has been around 2001--17/gm, 2003 14.9/gm 2004=16/gm

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=SCORING&season=2004&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

Nice try.Thanks for playing

broncofan7
09-07-2009, 11:23 AM
How did we ever win a game without a "franchise" QB...OH NOES...


:Broncos:

With a great zone blocking, run 1st scheme and a mobile QB.......

Spider
09-07-2009, 11:23 AM
Educate yourself son.

I give you the 2001 6-10 Colts quarterback by the GREAT Peyton Manning:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&statisticCategory=SCORING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2001&seasonType=REG

I give you the 1984 Denver Broncos 13-3:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=SCORING&season=1984&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

offensively they averaged 22.1 pts/game good for 11th in the NFL

defensively they averaged giving up 15.1 pts/game--good for 2nd in the NFL

The Pats have won 3 Superbowl's this decade--guess what their team scoring defense has been around 2001--17/gm, 2003 14.9/gm 2004=16/gm

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=SCORING&season=2004&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

Nice try.Thanks for playing

what in the hell does that have ot do with Cutler ?

BroncoMan4ever
09-07-2009, 11:24 AM
We have not "drastically" improved in all other areas. The secondary is better, but the front 7 are just as bad as last year and they have a new defensive scheme to learn. That's not a good combination.

And QB is by far the most important position on the team. People keep harping on it because it is that important. You remember what Elway did in the 80s with zero talent around him?

yes because we had so much talent in the front 7 last season that we couldn't possibly get any better. give me a break, just the dumping of the garbage in the front 7 made us better. add in we finally got some size and strength in the front 7, we are generating pressure with our 3 DL, and Doom is playing like a madman and looks as though the move to OLB will be a great move for him, we are a lot better in the front 7 than last season

why do so many people have to bring up Elway when talking about Cutler? he has never had to carry a team on his own, and when things are going bad for the team, he is at his worst, when things were bad, John was at his best, to make up for the rest of the team. Jay isn't even in the same league as a player that Elway was. also, with Elway if he had a 3 game lead in the division to get into the playoffs, he would carry the team to at least 1 win in the final 3 to get to the playoffs.

BroncoMan4ever
09-07-2009, 11:28 AM
If you go by what was reported
-Denver's initial asking price was 2 1sts and 2 3rds, and the 2 1sts had to be on the table to be in the game
-all final teams had offered up at least 2 1sts (re: there was enough interest that the Broncos didn't have to come off the 2 1st requirement)
-sounds like Quinn was in Cleveland's offer too
-Skins were only offering picks
-Detroit offered the 1st overall

Final teams
Chicago
Cleveland
Washington
NYJ

Made offers
Tampa
Detroit

I'd take
Cleveland's offer of Quinn and 2 1sts (if that was truly offered, but I doubt it was), but also sounds like Mangini got cold feet; would still take Quinn, 5th overall, and their 2nd this year.
Detroit if the offer was more than the 1st oveall (#20 or '10 1st), so it wouldn't be just a Stafford for Cutler swap.

i think Cleveland's offer was Quinn and a 1st. and since we wanted 2-1sts and 2-3rds i think at the time it was not enough.

ChSuperStar
09-07-2009, 11:32 AM
so what if denver goes 3-13 ? We dont have that 1st pick.. but that is the least i expect. 6-10 at the best. But i will be a bronco fan for ever...

BroncoMan4ever
09-07-2009, 11:34 AM
Kyle Orton is in the bottom 10 of NFL starters--hence he is below average in a league of 32 teams.

QB is THE most important position on the field and when you downgrade to such a degree as did we, your defense or running game had better be on par with the NYG or Ravens if we wish to compete for a playoff spot--I LOVED the Moreno pick and I hope that he can be a 1400 yard back for us--but I am skeptical to say the least that this will occur with Mcd as HC and Orton as our starter. And our defense is so far off from a NYG or Ravens level that even to discuss such a comparison this season would make the rest of my post seem irrelevant because of the taint of blatant homerism in such a comparison.......face it--we are SCREWED and ALL AT MCD's doing......

too many people are calling out his stats with the Bears and writing him off as a loser because of that. in Chicago the entire offense was about getting the ball in Forte's hands. he was not asked to pass a lot, he was under contant pressure and had no real receiving threats when he was needed to pass. also while people are bitching about him, remember he was kicking ass last season before he got injured. he was getting talk as a pro bowler, possible MVP candidate the 1st half of last season. when given a chance and with a little help, he can play really good. he is going to shock people this year. he won't throw for 4500 yards, but he will throw for a lot less INTs than Jay and around the same amount of TDs as Jay

Atwater His Ass
09-07-2009, 11:37 AM
why do so many people have to bring up Elway when talking about Cutler? he has never had to carry a team on his own, and when things are going bad for the team, he is at his worst, when things were bad, John was at his best, to make up for the rest of the team. Jay isn't even in the same league as a player that Elway was. also, with Elway if he had a 3 game lead in the division to get into the playoffs, he would carry the team to at least 1 win in the final 3 to get to the playoffs.

Nobody is claiming that Cutler is in Elway's league. The point is that he has the potential to be that good. And we pissed it away over hurt feelings.

The other point is that QB is that important, and Elway provides and easy example of just what a great QB can do with nothing else around him.

Like I said, only people in Denver think trading Cutler made any sense what-so-ever. He may never be a truly great QB, but he's light years ahead of Orton and easily top 10 in the league, if not top 5.

Let's also put some perspective on the fact Jay was in just he 2nd year as a full-time starter. Denver fans are still so hung up over Elway, that the expectations on QB's here is just unreal and fans tend to lose focus of what really is going on.

The guy threw for 4500+ yards, 62% completion percentage, 25 TD's and has the ability to make any and every throw on the football field.

Again, only homeristic Bronco fans think getting rid of Jay was a good idea.

BroncoMan4ever
09-07-2009, 11:38 AM
can't wait to rely on orton to win games for us. so exciting knowing we got rid of that dead weight cutler and got a real baller back there now to lead us to glory.

we got rid of a whiny, mopey bitch and replaced him with a guy who is going to give all he has every game until the clock reads 0:00, he isn't going to mope on the field or call out his teammates, when things are bad he isn't going to isolate himself from his teammates and act like a dick-wad.

add in all the intangibles and i feel we are better at the QB position. Jay had the athletic ability, but mentally was not there. Orton doesn't have Jay's athletic prowess, but he still has NFL QB ability plus is better mentally.

rastaman
09-07-2009, 11:38 AM
It's almost like people on this message board are fans of the team.

Weird.

I Know! Whats up with all this this blind gullible loyalty fan base phenomenon!.....It ain't normal I Tell Ya! :sunshine:

Hell when was the last time this franchise has only on won 3 games in a season??? ;)

I've been a Bronco fan since 1978......and can't remember a 3 win season in over 30 years!

A 3 win season in 2009 here in Denver would sure be a humbling experience for Bronco fans thats for sure. Imagine what the expectations would be in 2010! McDaniels may need a armed escort to and from the games.

Bronco Yoda
09-07-2009, 11:39 AM
"Kansas City (4 wins) Oakland (4 wins) Denver (3 wins)"

So basically the only teams any of are going to win are against ourselves here?

ok

Popps
09-07-2009, 11:43 AM
I don't mind Clayton, as a rule. I also don't blame anyone for thinking a rebuilding team will struggle.

1. New coach
2. New offense
3. New defense
4. Mostly new staff
5. Huge roster turnover

There's no reason to think we'll be immediately successful. Most intelligent Broncos fans understand what's going on. Success will come in many possible forms this year, but a playoff win isn't likely one of them. It would be great, but it's unlikely.

Conversely, I think 3-13 is a bit gloomy.

I'm looking at 5-8 wins, depending on how many breaks we get. (Injuries, calls, etc.)

I can also see a chance of this whole thing coming together quicker than everyone expected, and us being competitive right out of the gate. Small chance, but it's possible. We've seen it before.


An expansion team simply wouldn't have anywhere near this much talent. Doesn't mean we won't have our struggles, but to say we look like an expansion team without seeing a single regular season game is a bit much.

BroncoMan4ever
09-07-2009, 11:43 AM
Educate yourself son.

I give you the 2001 6-10 Colts quarterbacked by the GREAT Peyton Manning--not even HE could overcome such defensive futility:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&statisticCategory=SCORING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2001&seasonType=REG

I give you the 1984 Denver Broncos 13-3:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=SCORING&season=1984&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

offensively they averaged 22.1 pts/game good for 11th in the NFL

defensively they averaged giving up 15.1 pts/game--good for 2nd in the NFL

The Pats have won 3 Superbowl's this decade--guess what their team scoring defense has been around 2001--17/gm, 2003 14.9/gm 2004=16/gm

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=SCORING&season=2004&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

Nice try.Thanks for playing

i didn't say Jay couldn't win without a good defense or that the good defense point that was being made was wrong, i was informing that it is a misleading stat, because any QB with a good defense is going to win more often than not.

i even brought up an interesting little stat you left out to try and twist words around to make yourself seem intelligent. i'll repost it for you, "Orton is something like 12-2 when his defense allows 20 or less." so many of you claim the guy to be a scrub and worthless, yet in the situation you all throw out for Jay's defense about if only he had a defense, he is just as good in the wins and loss stat as Jay was.

thank you for playing, now come back at me when you can contradict an entire post and not just twist a few words in a post to try and make yourself seem intelligent or important.

ScottXray
09-07-2009, 11:47 AM
"Kansas City (4 wins) Oakland (4 wins) Denver (3 wins)"

So basically the only teams any of are going to win are against ourselves here?

ok
The AFC west is pretty bad right now, but Claytons predictions show that he has ZERO knowledge of the game. Or even probabilities , as it would mean the AFC west bottom three teams alone are going to give up 37 losses this year. Statistically VERY improbable.

As bad as we were last year, both Oakland and Denver are better this year....(well at least we are somewhat) and there is little chance of those records actually happening.

You can tell just by looking at Clayton that he has VASTE experience from his days as a NFL player. (NOT)

BroncoMan4ever
09-07-2009, 11:50 AM
Nobody is claiming that Cutler is in Elway's league. The point is that he has the potential to be that good. And we pissed it away over hurt feelings.

The other point is that QB is that important, and Elway provides and easy example of just what a great QB can do with nothing else around him.

Like I said, only people in Denver think trading Cutler made any sense what-so-ever. He may never be a truly great QB, but he's light years ahead of Orton and easily top 10 in the league, if not top 5.

Let's also put some perspective on the fact Jay was in just he 2nd year as a full-time starter. Denver fans are still so hung up over Elway, that the expectations on QB's here is just unreal and fans tend to lose focus of what really is going on.

The guy threw for 4500+ yards, 62% completion percentage, 25 TD's and has the ability to make any and every throw on the football field.

Again, only homeristic Bronco fans think getting rid of Jay was a good idea.

he also played like **** when it mattered most and conveniently when stats are brought up no one seems to recall he also had 20 turnovers.

and yes there are a lot of people here who talk about Jay like he was the 2nd coming of greatness in Denver, that he was the next Elway and statistically was better after 3 years than John, yes there are a lot of people claiming that bull**** and nonsense.

Tony Romo has great stats, but does anyone claim him to be an elite QB? Cutler is a less mentally sound Romo with a better arm.

BroncoBuff
09-07-2009, 11:55 AM
Ayers was part of the deal, but Smith wasn't. Anytime draftpicks are a major part of the deal (like prospects in baseball) it takes time to evaluate the haul.
Alphonso might not have been the EXACT first round pick we traded, but it's close enough, basically the same thing: We traded one of two blindly slotted #1 picks. Besides, based on McD's interview, he would've made the trade with either pick. He talked about the choice of which pick to send Seattle in the past tense, as in, he already decided to make the trade before they dickered over which pick. Come on, play along ;D

I'm comfortable calling it Orton, Ayers and Alphonso for Cutler.


What would have been a fair trade for Jay in your opinion? (Don't answer "I wouldn't have traded him." Acknowledge that it was your Boss who told you to do it. Be a sport and play along.)
I'm not sure there's such a thing as a "fair trade" for Jay Cutler. Maybe for a proven young franchise quarterback who's also unhappy, or set to leave via free agency. Say if Aaron Rodgers was unhappy, or somebody like that. Even a guy like Trent Edwards - a guy with an upside - would be preferable to Orton, a guy who's probably hit his ceiling.

Matt Cassell plus the Lions' #20 first-rounder would've been a reasonable trade (the rumors of Cassel plus both Lions' 1st rounders was BS I think).

Orton is a good backup quarterback. But there's a reason why the Bears traded him AND two #1's, the same reason why he's been badly outplayed by Chris Simms, another backup QB.

Mr.Meanie
09-07-2009, 11:55 AM
Id's say last years team was a solid 6 with really 1 side of he ball to fix. We had money and picks, even before trading Cutler.

We MAY get 6 wins for a variety of reasons. 5-11 is optimistic.

I really can't imagine a worse offseason in Denver.

Every move was either quetionable or outright stupid.

I'm sorry, but getting vets like Brian Dawkins, Vonnie Holliday, Andre Davis, Andre Goodman, and Darrell Reid to start, while we bring along our youth and draft picks behind sucessful veterans is a really good strategy.

Every single position on the field we upgraded except QB. It's amazing to me that out of 53 men on a team, people will look at only QB, and if that's not an elite talent they think the team is garbage.

prunch
09-07-2009, 11:59 AM
Clayton is an untalented rat in a suit.

I shall call him "Rizzo".

Bronx33
09-07-2009, 12:03 PM
Clayton is an untalented rat in a suit.

I shall call him "Rizzo".

Kornheisers brother i think..

lod01
09-07-2009, 12:05 PM
He's right.

I'll 2nd that. A lot of you have absolutely no clue how bad this team is. Can't wait for this board to erupt after week 6. Weeks 1-3 are possible wins. After that it heads south in a hurry. Seriously, this team is bad.

Baba Booey
09-07-2009, 12:09 PM
Clayton is clearly the wimpy kid who couldn't play football cause his mom wouldn't let him. Therefore you have to take every bitter comment he makes with a grain of salt.

Popps
09-07-2009, 12:10 PM
I'll 2nd that. A lot of you have absolutely no clue how bad this team is. Can't wait for this board to erupt after week 6. Weeks 1-3 are possible wins. After that it heads south in a hurry. Seriously, this team is bad.

Thank god someone smarter than the rest of us has finally spoken up.

Not only smart, but visionary.

Thanks again!

OABB
09-07-2009, 12:19 PM
I'll 2nd that. A lot of you have absolutely no clue how bad this team is. Can't wait for this board to erupt after week 6. Weeks 1-3 are possible wins. After that it heads south in a hurry. Seriously, this team is bad.

NO one has any idea how good or bad any team is at this point of the preseason. In fact to make such a statement as you have, is really really really really really really re-ha-reeeally stupid. Any one who talks about this team and how good or bad we are right now should go castrate themselves in order to save the human race.

Los Broncos
09-07-2009, 12:23 PM
We're only winning 6 games so he isn't that far off.

Bronx33
09-07-2009, 12:24 PM
We're only winning 6 games so he isn't that far off.


Clayton states the obvious like hes a visionary or something and his brand of visionaries area dime a dozen.

BlaK-Argentina
09-07-2009, 12:35 PM
I wonder if Dolphins fans were talking like some of you last year after coming off a 1-15 season. I wonder how many of you would be freaking out about having Chad Pennington as your QB, a new, unproven head coach leading your team, a star RB coming off a serious injury, no real threat at WR, a questionable O-line and an aging defense that had just lost one of its best players.

That's what Miami fans were looking at last year. And look what happened!

Fact is, one more time, no one knows what the hell is going to happen so STFU and enjoy the season already. We may win 3 games, we may win 11 or 10. ENJOY THE RIDE EITHER WAY!

Bronx33
09-07-2009, 12:39 PM
I wonder if Dolphins fans were talking like some of you last year after coming off a 1-15 season. I wonder how many of you would be freaking out about having Chad Pennington as your QB, a new, unproven head coach leading your team, a star RB coming off a serious injury, no real threat at WR, a questionable O-line and an aging defense that had just lost one of its best player.

That's what Miami fans were looking at last year. And look what happened!

Fact is, one more time, no one knows what the hell is going to happen so STFU and enjoy the season already. We may win 3 games, we may win 11 or 10. ENJOY THE RIDE EITHER WAY!


Nice point! but sadly the negative nellys will come and crap on it.

ohiobronco2
09-07-2009, 12:50 PM
God I can't wait for the season to start already. I hope we are competitive, but I'm not sure Clayton is too far off with his prediction and if we do finish with the 2nd worst record, you McDaniels lovers will have to stop gargling his chin sauce. Was a terrible trade and this has been one cluster fu*k of an offseason. Frankly, if we are this terrible, he should be tied up so fans can give him repeated kicks to the groin.

ohiobronco2
09-07-2009, 12:53 PM
I wonder if Dolphins fans were talking like some of you last year after coming off a 1-15 season. I wonder how many of you would be freaking out about having Chad Pennington as your QB, a new, unproven head coach leading your team, a star RB coming off a serious injury, no real threat at WR, a questionable O-line and an aging defense that had just lost one of its best players.

That's what Miami fans were looking at last year. And look what happened!

Fact is, one more time, no one knows what the hell is going to happen so STFU and enjoy the season already. We may win 3 games, we may win 11 or 10. ENJOY THE RIDE EITHER WAY!

Hilarious! Did you see the Dolphins schedule last season? Add to the fact that Tom Brady was injured, and Brett Favres arm crapped out, they were handed the division. Have you seen our schedule this season? This team will not be as lucky as last years Dolphins. Oh and I'm pretty sure Bill Parcells has forgotten more about football than Xanders and McDaniels know. We need to use the swine flu defense, that may be our only chance.

BroncoMan4ever
09-07-2009, 12:53 PM
I'll 2nd that. A lot of you have absolutely no clue how bad this team is. Can't wait for this board to erupt after week 6. Weeks 1-3 are possible wins. After that it heads south in a hurry. Seriously, this team is bad.

thank you for the information Nostradamus. how foolish of us fans to have hope for our team this year. i guess we should just scrap the season and forfeit every game so that we don't embarass ourselves and we can rebuild next offseason.

how many people here expected the Dolphins to go 11-5 last season after going 1-15 the year before? they overhauled an entire team and turned it around in a year. i think an 8-8 team could improve a few games with the addition of an actual NFL calibre defense and ST unit.

Bronx33
09-07-2009, 12:58 PM
Hilarious! Did you see the Dolphins schedule last season? Add to the fact that Tom Brady was injured, and Brett Favres arm crapped out, they were handed the division. Have you seen our schedule this season? This team will not be as lucky as last years Dolphins. Oh and I'm pretty sure Bill Parcells has forgotten more about football than Xanders and McDaniels know. We need to use the swine flu defense, that may be our only chance.


Did bradys injury really effect the pats that much last season?

BroncoMan4ever
09-07-2009, 12:58 PM
Hilarious! Did you see the Dolphins schedule last season? Add to the fact that Tom Brady was injured, and Brett Favres arm crapped out, they were handed the division. Have you seen our schedule this season? This team will not be as lucky as last years Dolphins. Oh and I'm pretty sure Bill Parcells has forgotten more about football than Xanders and McDaniels know.

give me a ****ing break on the strength of schedule bull**** so many here spout out so often. it is the 16th ranked schedule in terms of difficulty. middle of the pack. also every team in our division has almost the same damn schedule so that evens things out.

also, Parcells did not coach that team. front office people are good to have, but when it comes down to the actual game, it is on the players and coaches. if the coaches have the players well prepared and working in a scheme together, good things will happen.

point is, regular season starts in less than a week, so who knows where we will end the season. we may go 3-13 which i seriously doubt, or we could go 13-3 and be an absolute beast.

Rock Chalk
09-07-2009, 01:00 PM
I'll 2nd that. A lot of you have absolutely no clue how bad this team is. Can't wait for this board to erupt after week 6. Weeks 1-3 are possible wins. After that it heads south in a hurry. Seriously, this team is bad.

You cant wait for this board to erupt after week 6 huh.

What an awesome guy you must be to hang around.

BroncoMan4ever
09-07-2009, 01:00 PM
Did bradys injury really effect the pats that much last season?

at the most i would say Pats go 13-3 with Brady and only because he had starting experience over Cassel. had Cassel had more game time before he was thrown into the starting position, i think they would have been the same team as they were with Brady.

ohiobronco2
09-07-2009, 01:00 PM
thank you for the information Nostradamus. how foolish of us fans to have hope for our team this year. i guess we should just scrap the season and forfeit every game so that we don't embarass ourselves and we can rebuild next offseason.

how many people here expected the Dolphins to go 11-5 last season after going 1-15 the year before? they overhauled an entire team and turned it around in a year. i think an 8-8 team could improve a few games with the addition of an actual NFL calibre defense and ST unit.

It's fine to be optimistic. I'm mean, I'm pissed off about the way things have gone, but thats just me. You are entitled to your opinion. Frankly noboby knows how this will all unfold. I just don't see us having the advantages of the Dolphins. I will concede that we are in a week division and that will help. But I think the Dolphins had an easier overall schedule last season, I think Chad Pennington is a better QB than Orton (We really don't know much about Brandstater). The Tuna is a better GM and I think he has influence over most of the decisions made with that franchise. He has a superior football mind than just about anybody in our organization. We will be better on D and SP, but I think we take a major step back on O, regardless of the system.

ohiobronco2
09-07-2009, 01:06 PM
Did bradys injury really effect the pats that much last season?

You serious Clark? I don't know, they might have won the superbowl. Are you one of those folks who believe Matt Cassel is the answer for the Chiefs? Yes, I'd say there is a big difference between an AFC championship/Superbowl Championship and not even making the post season.

Bronx33
09-07-2009, 01:07 PM
You serious Clark? I don't know, they might have won the superbowl. Are you one of those folks who believe Matt Cassel is the answer for the Chiefs? Yes, I'd say there is a big difference between an AFC championship/Superbowl Championship and not even making the post season.



Key phrase..

ohiobronco2
09-07-2009, 01:08 PM
give me a ****ing break on the strength of schedule bull**** so many here spout out so often. it is the 16th ranked schedule in terms of difficulty. middle of the pack. also every team in our division has almost the same damn schedule so that evens things out.

also, Parcells did not coach that team. front office people are good to have, but when it comes down to the actual game, it is on the players and coaches. if the coaches have the players well prepared and working in a scheme together, good things will happen.

point is, regular season starts in less than a week, so who knows where we will end the season. we may go 3-13 which i seriously doubt, or we could go 13-3 and be an absolute beast.

I hope this happens. I just don't see it.

TheDave
09-07-2009, 01:12 PM
give me a ****ing break on the strength of schedule bull**** so many here spout out so often. it is the 16th ranked schedule in terms of difficulty. middle of the pack. also every team in our division has almost the same damn schedule so that evens things out.

also, Parcells did not coach that team. front office people are good to have, but when it comes down to the actual game, it is on the players and coaches. if the coaches have the players well prepared and working in a scheme together, good things will happen.

point is, regular season starts in less than a week, so who knows where we will end the season. we may go 3-13 which i seriously doubt, or we could go 13-3 and be an absolute beast.

As sure as I am that the sun will continue to rise in the east... I can gaurantee Kyle Orton will never QB a 13-3 team that is viewed as an absolute beast. Sorry...

ohiobronco2
09-07-2009, 01:13 PM
Key phrase..

Weak Sauce. You're right, we shouldn't make predictions about how good or bad teams should/could be. The Pats were 19-1 the previous year, if you think that Cassel is the QB Brady is, then I guess I shouldn't argue with crazy.

Bronx33
09-07-2009, 01:18 PM
Weak Sauce. You're right, we shouldn't make predictions about how good or bad teams should/could be. The Pats were 19-1 the previous year, if you think that Cassel is the QB Brady is, than I guess I shouldn't argue with crazy.


All iam saying is did losing brady really kill the pats last season the answer is no i thought they did extremely well under the circumstances and was a poor example to support you last post. ( just an opinion) not trying to be a dick.

ohiobronco2
09-07-2009, 01:24 PM
All iam saying is did losing brady really kill the pats last season the answer is no i thought they did extremely well under the circumstances and was a poor example to support you last post. ( just an opinion) not trying to be a dick.

I'll say that losing Brady didn't really kill them, but a healthy Brady would have keep the Dolphins from winning the division and out of the post season. Which is my main arguement. People are trying to compare this team to the Dolphins of last season and they are completely different. I will say that we are in a weaker division and that does help us, but overall we have a tougher schedule this season than they had last season. Somebody alluded to the fact that we have the 16th most difficult schedule, I'd say thats primarily because we share a division with the Chiefs and Raiders. BTW, Dolphins opponents had a 40% winning percentage. They beat NE in week 3 with the wildcat and SD in week 4 when they were not playing their best FB, after that, they beat nobody impressive. Look it up.

BroncoMan4ever
09-07-2009, 01:33 PM
As sure as I am that the sun will continue to rise in the east... I can gaurantee Kyle Orton will never QB a 13-3 team that is viewed as an absolute beast. Sorry...

i'm not saying he will or won't because who knows with the NFL, crazier things have happened.

i am fine with people having opinions, and don't really care if they believe we will suck or we will kick ass. i just can't stand the people who have it down as if it is fact that we will suck. so many here just act like they already know that when January rolls around we are going to be bottom feeders in the NFL, and without seeing a meaningful game yet, i think it is too soon to write off a season. we may suck, and we may be good.

BroncoMan4ever
09-07-2009, 01:40 PM
It's fine to be optimistic. I'm mean, I'm pissed off about the way things have gone, but thats just me. You are entitled to your opinion. Frankly noboby knows how this will all unfold. I just don't see us having the advantages of the Dolphins. I will concede that we are in a week division and that will help. But I think the Dolphins had an easier overall schedule last season, I think Chad Pennington is a better QB than Orton (We really don't know much about Brandstater). The Tuna is a better GM and I think he has influence over most of the decisions made with that franchise. He has a superior football mind than just about anybody in our organization. We will be better on D and SP, but I think we take a major step back on O, regardless of the system.

truthfully i think we are better in every phase of the game including offense. we don't have the ability to throw a ball through a wall anymore, but instead of chucking it up 616 times this season, we will return to a more balanced attack. a system similar to what was in place for Griese and Jake, where we batter a defense all day with our running game and mix in the pass. instead of the constant risk taking associated with Cutler's reckless style of play and throwing the ball anywhere he wanted, we are going to see a more conservative style of play out of the QB position, and a lot of focus on the running game. we are going to use the run to set up the pass.

also, we only averaged something like 23 points a game last season, with a true dedication to our running game, and smart play from our QB in a balanced offense there is no reason to believe we can't match or better what our offense did last season.

Orton isn't going to throw for 4500 yards, but he probably will be right around the number of TDs Jay had, with less turnovers.

rastaman
09-07-2009, 03:09 PM
he also played like **** when it mattered most and conveniently when stats are brought up no one seems to recall he also had 20 turnovers.

and yes there are a lot of people here who talk about Jay like he was the 2nd coming of greatness in Denver, that he was the next Elway and statistically was better after 3 years than John, yes there are a lot of people claiming that bull**** and nonsense.

Tony Romo has great stats, but does anyone claim him to be an elite QB? Cutler is a less mentally sound Romo with a better arm.


Which QB has the most upside and which has and hasn't reached their ceiling of potential? answers: Cutler......Orton.

Lets see how Orton plays when it matters! Lets just try and keep the excuses for Orton down as much as possible.

If Chicago fans had to choose btwn Orton or Cutler as their starting QB who would they choose? answer: Cutler

By the way, I'd take Tony Romo over Orton any day.

SouthStndJunkie
09-07-2009, 03:19 PM
Who cares what John Clayton thinks?

I am not sure why so many people get worked up over predictions....if the man thinks we will go 3-13, then that is what he thinks.

I would rather have him say that than mealy mouth it and say 8-8.

Broncos4tw
09-07-2009, 04:12 PM
One thing to consider is this. Many people are of the mind that Jay was a reason we were bad. Couldn't win one in the last X games, blahblah. Well, it may be he was the only reason we were not routed even worse. We may find that it's much than we think.

But, maybe not. I do think our defense is better, replacing such a passive defensive C has to help a ton. We've looked much more aggressive even in preseason, blitzing more, and playing the ball.

I personally think we'll win 7. But if Orton doesn't get any better than he is now, I'd say 5 or even 4. I'm basing this on Orton improving to what I saw him do on the Chicago highlight reels.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-07-2009, 04:18 PM
3-13 is really pessimistic and I'm not really sure where that comes from. To say our defense will be worse than last season suggests two things: 1) He doesnt remember last season well enough and 2) he hasnt watched this d in the preseason at all. For all who say the preseason is bull****, you're wrong. During the past two years, the defensive problems in the preseason (mainly stopping the run) carried over to the regular season and was our achilles heel. This current defense has been solid against the run, has generated a good pass rush, and has forced many 3 and outs.

As for the offense, i tend to think the only game clayton watched was the bears game because our penalties killed us and we couldnt drive the ball. But that said (i assume clayton picked the bears to do well?) Chicago didnt embarrass us that game. I still say this team is more of an 8-8 team.

Jason in LA
09-07-2009, 04:20 PM
truthfully i think we are better in every phase of the game including offense. we don't have the ability to throw a ball through a wall anymore, but instead of chucking it up 616 times this season, we will return to a more balanced attack. a system similar to what was in place for Griese and Jake, where we batter a defense all day with our running game and mix in the pass. instead of the constant risk taking associated with Cutler's reckless style of play and throwing the ball anywhere he wanted, we are going to see a more conservative style of play out of the QB position, and a lot of focus on the running game. we are going to use the run to set up the pass.

also, we only averaged something like 23 points a game last season, with a true dedication to our running game, and smart play from our QB in a balanced offense there is no reason to believe we can't match or better what our offense did last season.

Orton isn't going to throw for 4500 yards, but he probably will be right around the number of TDs Jay had, with less turnovers.

You have to be the biggest homer on this board. I got a good laugh out of you swearing that the Lakers couldn't win a game in Denver in the Western Conference finals, and then they went out to win two out of three, and the final game was a blow out.

We all are hoping for the best when it comes to the Broncos, but this offseason has just been horrible. With Cutler, a happy Marshall, and what could be an improved D (it's hard for it not to be improved), then this team could be better. But Orton is the QB, and who knows what we're going to get out of Marshall. So how is the offense better? Is it possible that the offense will be better? Sure, it's possible. Is it probable? Hell no! They look like they'll be a lot worse, especially if they don't get much out of Marshall. Cutler's replacement is much worse, and if they don't get anything out of Marshall, then they pretty much haven't replace him. How can they be better? It's kind of a silly statement.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-07-2009, 04:27 PM
You have to be the biggest homer on this board. I got a good laugh out of you swearing that the Lakers couldn't win a game in Denver in the Western Conference finals, and then they went out to win two out of three, and the final game was a blow out.

We all are hoping for the best when it comes to the Broncos, but this offseason has just been horrible. With Cutler, a happy Marshall, and what could be an improved D (it's hard for it not to be improved), then this team could be better. But Orton is the QB, and who knows what we're going to get out of Marshall. So how is the offense better? Is it possible that the offense will be better? Sure, it's possible. Is it probable? Hell no! They look like they'll be a lot worse, especially if they don't get much out of Marshall. Cutler's replacement is much worse, and if they don't get anything out of Marshall, then they pretty much haven't replace him. How can they be better? It's kind of a silly statement.


Everyone thought last year that our D couldnt be worse than the year before and it was. This team was in DESPERATE NEED of a culture change. It was stuck in neutral. Yeah, i wish we still had Cutler around, but i think we are on the right track. Hopefully people stay patient, but people normally suck, so im sure they wont.

FireFly
09-07-2009, 04:29 PM
It's almost like people on this message board are fans of the team.

Weird.

:thumbs:

lod01
09-07-2009, 04:29 PM
NO one has any idea how good or bad any team is at this point of the preseason. In fact to make such a statement as you have, is really really really really really really re-ha-reeeally stupid. Any one who talks about this team and how good or bad we are right now should go castrate themselves in order to save the human race.

Hey, tard. This team sucks. If you can't see that, you really need to quit watching football.

Archer81
09-07-2009, 04:30 PM
Hey, tard. This team sucks. If you can't see that, you really need to quit watching football.


Then why watch it jackass?


:Broncos:

Jason in LA
09-07-2009, 04:38 PM
Everyone thought last year that our D couldnt be worse than the year before and it was. This team was in DESPERATE NEED of a culture change. It was stuck in neutral. Yeah, i wish we still had Cutler around, but i think we are on the right track. Hopefully people stay patient, but people normally suck, so im sure they wont.

If the ship is righted, it won't be this year.

ghwk
09-07-2009, 04:42 PM
Will someone locate Clayton's chin for me?

SonOfLe-loLang
09-07-2009, 04:49 PM
If the ship is righted, it won't be this year.

Didnt say it would. My goal for the broncos is to be playing good football by the end of the season.

Los Broncos
09-07-2009, 05:01 PM
Clayton states the obvious like hes a visionary or something and his brand of visionaries area dime a dozen.

4 is low and 10 is to high with that schedule, but I agree with your take.

Gort
09-07-2009, 07:00 PM
My question is when have any of these so-called "experts" been right? I mean most of them had the Chargers winning it all last season because they almost beat the Pats in AFC title game the previous season without LT and Rivers playing on one leg.

I recall a player when asked what a 2-0 start meant for his team...his reply was "Well, that means we'll finish somewhere between 2-14....and 16-0"

If Clayton knew what the hell he was talking about....why would they play the season. Just hand the Lombardi to whomever they feel is deserving.

for the 5 consecutive year... the 2009 lombardi goes to the sandy eggo sparkies!

everyone at ESPN would have to bring a change of pants to work if the lombardi actually was awarded that way.

Gort
09-07-2009, 07:09 PM
one other thing...

this idiot clayton is basically saying that Cutler was worth 5 wins all by his lonesome? i know that's a simplification. we are putting in new offensive and defensive schemes and there has been more turnover of personnel than just Cutler, but in Clayton's "lazy" world of ESPN analysis, he's basically saying that losing a QB with a 17-20 career record is worth -5 in the win column for the Broncos in spite of any other improvements on the team... that's just dumb. everyone else on offense returns + we have a better offensive scheme this year + we might actually have a real RB again. it's just absurd to say that losing Cutler (17-20) and replacing him with Orton/Simms is worth a -5 in the win column.

colonelbeef
09-07-2009, 07:12 PM
It's not like Clayton is out to lunch with that prediction. New head coach, new DC, new defense, no new significant defensive additions, lost our best player and franchise QB, #1 WR having issues, OL all of a sudden looks vunerable, DL is still horrible, Orton has been horrific in pre-season, Moreno is injured, front office has made questionable decision after questionable decision...this team is in a huge state of flux atm, and that doesn't usually translate into winning.

It's going to be a very long season.

this.

Atwater His Ass
09-07-2009, 07:13 PM
add in all the intangibles and i feel we are better at the QB position. Jay had the athletic ability, but mentally was not there. Orton doesn't have Jay's athletic prowess, but he still has NFL QB ability plus is better mentally.

:homer:

colonelbeef
09-07-2009, 07:20 PM
one other thing...

this idiot clayton is basically saying that Cutler was worth 5 wins all by his lonesome? i know that's a simplification. we are putting in new offensive and defensive schemes and there has been more turnover of personnel than just Cutler, but in Clayton's "lazy" world of ESPN analysis, he's basically saying that losing a QB with a 17-20 career record is worth -5 in the win column for the Broncos in spite of any other improvements on the team... that's just dumb. everyone else on offense returns + we have a better offensive scheme this year + we might actually have a real RB again. it's just absurd to say that losing Cutler (17-20) and replacing him with Orton/Simms is worth a -5 in the win column.

Without Cutler last year, the Broncos were a 3 win team at best.

ohiobronco2
09-07-2009, 07:44 PM
The D will be better this year, but they might be on the field an awful lot if we don't pickup first downs.

FireFly
09-07-2009, 10:11 PM
If our O-line can't old up, we probably will be a 3 win team :(

BroncoMan4ever
09-08-2009, 12:32 AM
Which QB has the most upside and which has and hasn't reached their ceiling of potential? answers: Cutler......Orton.

Lets see how Orton plays when it matters! Lets just try and keep the excuses for Orton down as much as possible.

If Chicago fans had to choose btwn Orton or Cutler as their starting QB who would they choose? answer: Cutler

By the way, I'd take Tony Romo over Orton any day.

Orton has been in the league 1 year longer than Cutler and has played in only a few more games, which means neither has reached the potential they possess. Orton isn't some old timer who has hit his peak. He played in a garbage system, with garbage linemen, garbage pass catchers and garbage offensive coaching. Jay has had great offensive minds, and a **** load of talented receiving options as well as a line that kept him on his feet and his jersey clean, now the tables have turned and Orton is the one who will have time, receiving options and good coaching helping him take the next step in his career, Jay is now on his own.

Cutler by the way of him being more athletically gifted would have the higher ceiling as a pro, however that can change quite a lot without receivers to help him out, or a line to keep his uniform clean, or without good offensive coaching. a guy with talent needs help around him and good leadership to help mold them into the best they can be, Cutler isn't getting that leadership and help in Chicago that he would have gotten here.

BroncoMan4ever
09-08-2009, 12:55 AM
You have to be the biggest homer on this board. I got a good laugh out of you swearing that the Lakers couldn't win a game in Denver in the Western Conference finals, and then they went out to win two out of three, and the final game was a blow out.

We all are hoping for the best when it comes to the Broncos, but this offseason has just been horrible. With Cutler, a happy Marshall, and what could be an improved D (it's hard for it not to be improved), then this team could be better. But Orton is the QB, and who knows what we're going to get out of Marshall. So how is the offense better? Is it possible that the offense will be better? Sure, it's possible. Is it probable? Hell no! They look like they'll be a lot worse, especially if they don't get much out of Marshall. Cutler's replacement is much worse, and if they don't get anything out of Marshall, then they pretty much haven't replace him. How can they be better? It's kind of a silly statement.

jesus christ man, still going on about the ****ing NBA conference finals, you are like a bitch who keeps bringing **** up that doesn't ****ing matter anymore. you sound like a lot of dudes' wives, bringing **** up from months and years before just to be an annoying bitch.

now lets get to the business at hand, and that is football.

what's so horrible about this offseason, you can spout on that my opinion is wrong, but you bring no points up as to why? we dumped a HC who hasn't been worth a damn for a decade. we dumped a staff that for the last 3 years has led the team into mediocrity. we dumped half a team that no other team in the league would bring in to compete for a spot on the roster as depth players. we drafted guys who will help the team now, we didn't reach on players simply because they played a position of need and come to realize months later that those guys were no better than who they replaced, we got rid of a whiny bitch overrated QB who DID NOT want to play here anymore. we didn't bend to the will of a clown receiver trying to force us to give him more money or a trade. so tell me WHAT IS SO HORRIBLE ABOUT THIS OFFSEASON?

all i see is we set up a damn good coaching staff, brought in depth on both sides of the ball, added size and power to the front 7, instilled discipline in the players, installed an aggressive attacking Defensive scheme, and did a lot to fix the secondary which last season could possibly have been the worst ever in the NFL.

as for Cutler, so many cry about his 4500 yards and 26 TDs, but seem to forget the 20 turnovers, or that he sucked when he was needed to be at his best, or that he moped like a baby when things didn't go his way, or that he walled himself off from his teammates when things were bad. He may have a cannon for an arm and great athletic ability, but he lacks the mental aspect of the game to ever become elite. he is Jeff George Light.

now on to Orton. in an offense that is about high percentage passes he isn't going to take needless risks like Jay did, throwing into triple and quadruple coverage, which means less turnovers, and less short fields for the opposition, which will lead to less scoring by the opposition and that gives us a better chance to win. also, unlike Jay, he doesn't whine, he doesn't mope on the field, when he makes a mistake he talks with his coaches and teammates to fix the problems, he keeps fighting. Also, he wants to play here, bitch boy didn't.

with Marshall, i think you can expect him to give all he has this year. and the reason is money. it is a contract year for him. he needs to show he is dominant, and worth what he wants. if he hits the open market(depending on the CBA) or is an RFA he needs to be coming off a good season where he shows he has the talent that deserves to be paid if he is going to have a chance for a team to either pay him if he is an UFA or pay the RFA tender of draft picks to us and then give him the money he wants. he has no option, if he continues to clown around he will **** himself out of millions, and you can bet that he and his agent have discussed that and he will get his **** together because of it.

So less turnovers and stupid play from the QB position, a dedication to the running game which balances the offense and takes pressure off of Orton, Marshall being in a contract year, our rookies from last year coming into their 2nd seasons and having NFL experience to build upon, attention being paid to ST for the 1st time in a long time, rebuilding the defense with bigger and stronger players, and getting a good coaching staff together makes this team better than last years.

Atwater His Ass
09-08-2009, 02:58 AM
:homer:

ffs, if you can't own up to where you got owned in the past, how can you expect anyone to take you seriously in the present?

as much as you'd like to think, you can't just wash that **** under the table when it's convient for you to do so.

if you really think orton is better than cutler, you're just ****ing clueless.

SPORTSWRITER
09-08-2009, 06:21 AM
Im fairly certain no one has ever claimed John Clayton on this board to be a genius.

He reminds me of my nerdy 5'th grade science teacher, who also taught Sunday school at a local church. He just doesn't have the LOOK of a jock or reporter as much as that of a teach. Though that shouldn't affect his analysis skills in sports, something sure does when it comes to Broncos coverage, huh! All those ESPN guys hate us except maybe Schefter.

errand
09-08-2009, 06:39 AM
just imagine how a Jay Cutler led offense will look with a team that gives up almost 1 TD less per game than we did last year-

Well, we do know that he only won 7 games when they gave up 1/2 a touchdown less per game in '07....

errand
09-08-2009, 06:55 AM
We may win 3 games, we may win 11 or 10. ENJOY THE RIDE EITHER WAY!

...too many spoiled fans on here for that to happen. they only love the Broncos when they're winning or got a cannon armed QB.

Rohirrim
09-08-2009, 06:56 AM
What I find interesting is how many people have been able to obliterate last season from their minds. Of course that's what people normally do when subjected to trauma.

errand
09-08-2009, 07:14 AM
Hilarious! Did you see the Dolphins schedule last season? Add to the fact that Tom Brady was injured, and Brett Favres arm crapped out, they were handed the division. Have you seen our schedule this season? This team will not be as lucky as last years Dolphins. Oh and I'm pretty sure Bill Parcells has forgotten more about football than Xanders and McDaniels know. We need to use the swine flu defense, that may be our only chance.

Sure the dolphins schedule wasn't the toughest in the league...but a jump from 1-15 to 11-5?

errand
09-08-2009, 07:15 AM
Did bradys injury really effect the pats that much last season?

Well they won only 11 games...and failed to make the playoffs and win the AFC, and play in the Super Bowl. So i guess the answer would be yeah.

errand
09-08-2009, 07:21 AM
Without Cutler last year, the Broncos were a 3 win team at best.

Really?...we could have used one of those 3 wins in the final month last season.

loborugger
09-08-2009, 08:12 AM
Here's my biggest problem with all these guys - they always pick the obvious favourites and then are never accountable when they spend extra effort ****ting on a team that ends up doing well.

There is no accountability in sports journalism.

There is no accountability in sports journalism 'cuz at the end of the day, its all entertainment and not really all that important. The accountability comes from the bottom line - when folks get it that Clayton sucks and ESPN as a whole sucks, and turn it off, things there will change. Pretty simple.

ohiobronco2
09-08-2009, 08:21 AM
Sure the dolphins schedule wasn't the toughest in the league...but a jump from 1-15 to 11-5?

Well, they also lost 6 games that season by 3 points or less. Maybe they really were not that far away to begin with.

broncofan7
09-08-2009, 08:34 AM
Well, we do know that he only won 7 games when they gave up 1/2 a touchdown less per game in '07....

They gave up ~26 pts/gm in 2007 and 28 in 2008. 2 or 2.4 points is what % of 7 points?

Jason in LA
09-08-2009, 09:00 AM
jesus christ man, still going on about the ****ing NBA conference finals, you are like a b**** who keeps bringing **** up that doesn't ****ing matter anymore. you sound like a lot of dudes' wives, bringing **** up from months and years before just to be an annoying b****.



Damn, look who got his panties all in a bunch. lmao. You call me a bitch but you act like that? I brought up that point because it proves my point, so it still does matter. It proves the point that you are a homer, and I'm not the only one who's called you that. You hate that I bring that up because it's true, and then get into a hissy fit over it, just like a bitch.

Stop being an annoying homer and I'll stop bringing it up.

jhns
09-08-2009, 09:17 AM
I'm not real sure what people expect. Do you really think this team is going to be good when being run by someone so childish? I don't know how you can say jay would kill this team because he acts like a baby but then support a front office that acts the same way.

You don't give away your QB and start Orton and then expext to win. That is pretty dumb.

For those talking like we just got bad at the end of last year, wake up. Did you watch the games? Did you notice that we had a single starter uninjured in the secondary? Did you notice that we played the second half without a single healthy starting LB? How about the d-line? Did you notice it also had injuries? Oh yeah, who could forget the 7 RBs that went down? That isn't enough to affect play you say? Well how about Sheffler being his normal injured self as well as some slight reciever injuries, although these all healed?

Let's stop acting like the team just had some crazy mental breakdown. The last two years have seen an insane amount of injuries. I know injuries aren't an excuse in the nfl but they are an excuse in reality. You can't just win with anyone.

I have to go to a meeting but I will probably show how dumb it is to say our offense wasn't affective later.

jhns
09-08-2009, 09:27 AM
one other thing...

this idiot clayton is basically saying that Cutler was worth 5 wins all by his lonesome? i know that's a simplification. we are putting in new offensive and defensive schemes and there has been more turnover of personnel than just Cutler, but in Clayton's "lazy" world of ESPN analysis, he's basically saying that losing a QB with a 17-20 career record is worth -5 in the win column for the Broncos in spite of any other improvements on the team... that's just dumb. everyone else on offense returns + we have a better offensive scheme this year + we might actually have a real RB again. it's just absurd to say that losing Cutler (17-20) and replacing him with Orton/Simms is worth a -5 in the win column.

That is because this team wouldn't have had 3 wins with orton last year. Wins are not a QB stat. That win argument will look pretty retarded by the end of this season. Just wait and see where this team is and where cutler is. Cutler was 5+ wins for this team last year.

Gort
09-08-2009, 09:27 AM
I have to go to a meeting but I will probably show how dumb it is to say our offense wasn't affective later.

i prefer an effective offense. i'm just saying...

gtown
09-08-2009, 09:28 AM
The crypt keeper might seem like he is off his rocker, but when I start looking at the schedule, I have to shake my head. This is gonna be a long season. For the reasons pointed our earlier - new coach, new systems, new QB, etc etc, plus the brutal schedule, 3-13 probably won't be too far off from reality.

We aren't gonna contend for the SB this year, but I am looking for how competitive the team is. Do they respond to adversity, do they keep the games close, is there a homefield advantage anymore, do they look like they care out there? Those are the things I am gonna watch for.

I think we are at worst 3-13 and at best 7-9. If we run the ball effectively, Orton limits his mistakes in the red zone, and we keep the defense off the field and fresh, we may surprise. :strong:

TailgateNut
09-08-2009, 09:29 AM
Cutler was 5+ wins for this team last year.


:spit: How many losses "WAS" Cun tler for this team last year?

jhns
09-08-2009, 09:30 AM
i prefer an effective offense. i'm just saying...

Good point.

jhns
09-08-2009, 09:33 AM
:spit: How many losses "WAS" Cun tler for this team last year?

Not even near the number orton will be responsible for.

ScottXray
09-08-2009, 10:11 AM
I'm not real sure what people expect. Do you really think this team is going to be good when being run by someone so childish? I don't know how you can say jay would kill this team because he acts like a baby but then support a front office that acts the same way.

You don't give away your QB and start Orton and then expext to win. That is pretty dumb.

For those talking like we just got bad at the end of last year, wake up. Did you watch the games? Did you notice that we had a single starter uninjured in the secondary? Did you notice that we played the second half without a single healthy starting LB? How about the d-line? Did you notice it also had injuries? Oh yeah, who could forget the 7 RBs that went down? That isn't enough to affect play you say? Well how about Sheffler being his normal injured self as well as some slight reciever injuries, although these all healed?

Let's stop acting like the team just had some crazy mental breakdown. The last two years have seen an insane amount of injuries. I know injuries aren't an excuse in the nfl but they are an excuse in reality. You can't just win with anyone.

I have to go to a meeting but I will probably show how dumb it is to say our offense wasn't affective later.

I'm sorry, but a 25 year old fan calling a 32 year old HC "childish" gives me pause. You don't have enough of a base of life experience to make a call like that , IMO. This is not from a pure football standpoint , but from a life experience standpoint. I know that emotions get the best of everyone and it just takes time for that to settle down and reach an even keel. At which point you start to make Better decisions (in most cases). But experience tells me that a coach that has been involved with football on a personal level for over 25 years (even at the age of 33) probably knows more about the game and how its done, than a fan, aged 25. Especially when that fan is so obviously emotionally involved in the team. And that is not a knock.
It is good to have emotional fans, it is good that you are passionate. It is just a statement that you have good points and you just might also be wrong about some things.

The thing about football is that it takes time to build a team and get it to work, and the thing about younger people is they are impatient. I don't like the fact that we may have taken a step backwards in SOME cases, but I do like the fact that the "Status quo" was considered not good enough, and the
new management has taken steps to try to improve....something the old management had a poor record at.

McD could have handled the QB situation better, but so could the QB.

The injuries were unusually bad last year, and the last few years, And the new HC has instilled a different conditioning/stretching scheme to see if that can be corrected.

Shanahan was fired by the owner, not the rookie HC. The reasons for that
are varied, but it is his team and his decision to make. It doesn't sit well with many, and they decry it as a bad decision.

The team had a powerful offense last year, that failed to score when it HAD to. No one KNOWS what this years offense is going to do, as yet.

The record of 8-8 last year, and the collapse at the end of the year says volumes about how good this team really was, and the injuries are complicet yes, but no excuse. In the NFL you make your own bed. You are supposed to be prepared for eventualities. It is not Duane Bowes fault that the Denver Broncos failed to win the division last year. They Failed. Ultimately that was Shanahans responsibility.

Only hindsight is 20-20, despite the Seers on this site saying otherwise. Some will be right, some wrong., and the truth is most will be only partially right, and mostly wrong. We truly will NOT know what the result is until after the season.

I'm going to watch this year, and probably next, before I make up my mind whether McD is making the right decisions, and whether this team is going to be good.

jhns
09-08-2009, 10:39 AM
I'm sorry, but a 25 year old fan calling a 32 year old HC "childish" gives me pause. You don't have enough of a base of life experience to make a call like that , IMO. This is not from a pure football standpoint , but from a life experience standpoint. I know that emotions get the best of everyone and it just takes time for that to settle down and reach an even keel. At which point you start to make Better decisions (in most cases). But experience tells me that a coach that has been involved with football on a personal level for over 25 years (even at the age of 33) probably knows more about the game and how its done, than a fan, aged 25. Especially when that fan is so obviously emotionally involved in the team. And that is not a knock.
It is good to have emotional fans, it is good that you are passionate. It is just a statement that you have good points and you just might also be wrong about some things.

The thing about football is that it takes time to build a team and get it to work, and the thing about younger people is they are impatient. I don't like the fact that we may have taken a step backwards in SOME cases, but I do like the fact that the "Status quo" was considered not good enough, and the
new management has taken steps to try to improve....something the old management had a poor record at.

McD could have handled the QB situation better, but so could the QB.

The injuries were unusually bad last year, and the last few years, And the new HC has instilled a different conditioning/stretching scheme to see if that can be corrected.

Shanahan was fired by the owner, not the rookie HC. The reasons for that
are varied, but it is his team and his decision to make. It doesn't sit well with many, and they decry it as a bad decision.

The team had a powerful offense last year, that failed to score when it HAD to. No one KNOWS what this years offense is going to do, as yet.

The record of 8-8 last year, and the collapse at the end of the year says volumes about how good this team really was, and the injuries are complicet yes, but no excuse. In the NFL you make your own bed. You are supposed to be prepared for eventualities. It is not Duane Bowes fault that the Denver Broncos failed to win the division last year. They Failed. Ultimately that was Shanahans responsibility.

Only hindsight is 20-20, despite the Seers on this site saying otherwise. Some will be right, some wrong., and the truth is most will be only partially right, and mostly wrong. We truly will NOT know what the result is until after the season.

I'm going to watch this year, and probably next, before I make up my mind whether McD is making the right decisions, and whether this team is going to be good.

I could see people acting childishly when I was 5. I'm not sure why you need to be older to see this. You don't make much sense with that.

Mcdaniels did act childishly. Look at how every other team in the league deals with these situations. Not even new england ships off players for acting like babies. They have tons of me first players and have had disputes. Cutler got upset and handled this wrong. I get that. He is also a 25 year old athlete that has been given special treatment his entire life. You have to tell him to shut up and play. There is no other way of handling it. Instead our front office acted just as immature and hurt the team a lot. Cutlers crying did not hurt the team. If you believe this front office wasn't flexing their ego, I'm not sure what to tell you other than wake up.

As for last year, try telling me the QB was even part of the problem and I will laugh again. We needed change but any change is not good change. You are not very smart if your justification for everything is simply that we needed change.

I will also be watching and cheering the team. I also will not support this head coach and will continue chanting that he needs fired. He is not this team and he is not close to being above the team. His decisions have hurt this team a lot and the risks involved make us into a joke. It isn't just the cutler thing. It is having 2(one being a far worse QB) different offensive starters when we just spent as many resourses this offseason on offense as we did on the franchises worst ever defense. It is giving away our future first as we rebuild and only getting a single second for it. There are a lot of moves that show josh is in way over his head and has no clue what he is doing. You may want to see these decisions continue for a few more years but I don't.

Also, josh has been around football, that means nothing. He has never been a coach at any level. He only has two years as even a coordinator. His experience and moves made to this point all show that he is not even close to being ready for a job like denvers. This isn't just a head coaching job. This head coach also plays GM.

GoBroncos DownUnder
09-08-2009, 10:43 AM
I'm going to watch this year, and probably next, before I make up my mind whether McD is making the right decisions, and whether this team is going to be good.
Yep, can't put it any better than that! ^5

GoBroncos DownUnder
09-08-2009, 10:49 AM
I could see people acting childishly when I was 5. I'm not sure why you need to be older to see this. You don't make much sense with that.
Either you "get it" or you don't "get it".
IMO the problem here is that you don't get it.
Maybe wait about 5-10 years, live your life, then come back and read that post again! It will make more sense then. Trust me ;)

ScottXray
09-08-2009, 11:22 AM
I could see people acting childishly when I was 5. I'm not sure why you need to be older to see this. You don't make much sense with that.

Mcdaniels did act childishly. Look at how every other team in the league deals with these situations. Not even new england ships off players for acting like babies. They have tons of me first players and have had disputes. Cutler got upset and handled this wrong. I get that. He is also a 25 year old athlete that has been given special treatment his entire life. You have to tell him to shut up and play. There is no other way of handling it. Instead our front office acted just as immature and hurt the team a lot. Cutlers crying did not hurt the team. If you believe this front office wasn't flexing their ego, I'm not sure what to tell you other than wake up.

As for last year, try telling me the QB was even part of the problem and I will laugh again. We needed change but any change is not good change. You are not very smart if your justification for everything is simply that we needed change.

I will also be watching and cheering the team. I also will not support this head coach and will continue chanting that he needs fired. He is not this team and he is not close to being above the team. His decisions have hurt this team a lot and the risks involved make us into a joke. It isn't just the cutler thing. It is having 2(one being a far worse QB) different offensive starters when we just spent as many resourses this offseason on offense as we did on the franchises worst ever defense. It is giving away our future first as we rebuild and only getting a single second for it. There are a lot of moves that show josh is in way over his head and has no clue what he is doing. You may want to see these decisions continue for a few more years but I don't.

Also, josh has been around football, that means nothing. He has never been a coach at any level. He only has two years as even a coordinator. His experience and moves made to this point all show that he is not even close to being ready for a job like denvers. This isn't just a head coaching job. This head coach also plays GM.

As far as the QB situation, McDaniels was told to trade the QB by Bowlen. I'm sure he wanted to try to patch it up (you obviously see it differently) but when your boss says trade him, you do what your told. It was a bad move by the OWNER to not tell Jay "see you in camp". McD could have tried to argue against it more, yes. But you can't lay that at his feet totally.
They have obviously handled the second ego on the team differently (Marshall), and that was also almost screwed up by the owner also. I believe that McD put his foot down with bowlen on this one. Neither of us have any proof of our points.

As far as last year the QB was definitely part of the problem, at times. Even you said he was coddled. His attitude definitely needed some adjustment, to correct some of his issues and problem areas. The team would still be better with him here, but it is spilt milk, and whining about it is just that, and accomplishes as much. We have Orton and Simms, and Brandstater. It is what it is. See the first paragraph..

The draft picks/ trades I agree may have been poor decisions....TIME will tell.

As far as his PRO coaching experience. from wikipedia:
" From 2002 to 2003, he served as a defensive coaching assistant for the team, working with the defensive backs in 2003. In 2004, he became the team's quarterbacks coach." Of course he was also the Offensive coordinator after that. That is not ZERO, and he accomplished those at a very early age. Yeah, there is a limited resume. All young coaches have one. Not a reason to fire him.

Calling for McDs firing so soon may make you feel better. I can guarantee you, since you aren't writing the checks , and Bowlen is , that it is not going to happen. No way is Bowlen going to pay Shanny, McD and a third coach.
A: he can't afford it
B: he thinks McD is making the right changes.
C: he knows that it is going to take some time for the team to come around
and for all this to play out.

So, "Cry havoc, and let loose the dogs of war!" may be your position. You will not convince me that you are correct until you have more evidence of his failings than your opinions and a few possible bad draft decisions (not proved out yet). Have fun, and don't let it get you too down, as in the end it is all just an entertainment and game.

TailgateNut
09-08-2009, 11:28 AM
Either you "get it" or you don't "get it".
IMO the problem here is that you don't get it.
Maybe wait about 5-10 years, live your life, then come back and read that post again! It will make more sense then. Trust me ;)

I've wasted plenty of time trying to talk to Mr. Mensa. His best cop out was "I wasn't paying attention" when we were talking about Bronco football in the eighties.:spit:

An attention whore and football guru (in his own mind).

jhns
09-08-2009, 11:30 AM
Bowlen isn't paying shanny after this year so if that is what you think is holding him back, you are uninformed.

jhns
09-08-2009, 11:34 AM
I've wasted plenty of time trying to talk to Mr. Mensa. His best cop out was "I wasn't paying attention" when we were talking about Bronco football in the eighties.:spit:

An attention whore and football guru (in his own mind).

Dud I get under your skin or what... Are you ever going to stop crying about the things I say? You don't even know what it is like to play organized sports. I'm not sure why you think you would know something. Judging by your picture, you hav ent gotten out of your chair in years.

You aren't a better fan when the only reason you follow the team is for the social gatherings it creates. You are just a nerd that couldn't make friends without it. Of course everything is fine to you when you could care less about the sport.

broncofan7
09-08-2009, 11:35 AM
Not even near the number orton will be responsible for.

:rofl:

If people thought that we won IN SPITE of Jake Plummer--wait until they get a load of Orton!

BroncoMan4ever
09-08-2009, 11:39 AM
if you really think orton is better than cutler, you're just ****ing clueless.

i have never said that Orton was more talented than Cutler or that he had more potential, all i have said is that i believe he will perform better than Cutler. there is a difference there.

Cutler can throw for a ton of yards and a good TD amount, but also has a gaudy turnover rate which in my opinion drags a QB down, you can't be elite when you are turning the ball over just about as often as you are throwing a TD pass, and i don't care what a pro bowl berth says, he isn't elite. i'm not saying he won't become elite, because he might, but right now he is just a starting QB with a ton of potential.

Orton on the other hand, isn't going to throw for a ton of yards, but in this system he is going to throw for a good amount of TDs and he is also going to take care of the ball. he doesn't have the ego from having a cannon arm to decide to take risks throwing into triple coverage, he hasn't really locked onto just 1 receiver like Jay had a habit of doing, he is a far better teammate than Jay has ever shown himself to be, and he doesn't have the cry baby attitude that Jay does.

that is why i believe Orton will be better for us than Cutler. better teammate, better attitude, less turnovers. those are reasons i feel we are better at the QB position now.

i am not deluding myself to thinking Orton is more talented than Jay, because in the NFL there are maybe 2 guys who have anywhere near that athletic ability and potential of Jay, but for this system all of the intangibles that made Jay good in so many peoples minds are not required.

BroncoMan4ever
09-08-2009, 11:41 AM
Not even near the number orton will be responsible for.

that is a stupid remark considering Orton is 21-12 in games he has started compared with Jay being 17-20.

ScottXray
09-08-2009, 11:46 AM
Bowlen isn't paying shanny after this year so if that is what you think is holding him back, you are uninformed.
If Shanny doesn't take a job somewhere next year else Bowlen will be paying him. In fact even if he does take a job somewhere Bowlen is still on the hook for the difference of anything less than 7 million per , until the contract runs out. 2012?

I do think Shanny takes a job somewhere this year, and he'll come back re-invigorated and do a good job. Doesn't mean Bowlen is off the hook.

BroncoMan4ever
09-08-2009, 11:51 AM
If Shanny doesn't take a job somewhere next year else Bowlen will be paying him. In fact even if he does take a job somewhere Bowlen is still on the hook for the difference of anything less than 7 million per , until the contract runs out. 2012?

I do think Shanny takes a job somewhere this year, and he'll come back re-invigorated and do a good job. Doesn't mean Bowlen is off the hook.

that's why i am hoping he goes to Dallas or Washington. Jones or Snyder will give him at least 7 million a year and we won't be on the hook for his money anymore.

jhns
09-08-2009, 11:53 AM
If Shanny doesn't take a job somewhere next year else Bowlen will be paying him. In fact even if he does take a job somewhere Bowlen is still on the hook for the difference of anything less than 7 million per , until the contract runs out. 2012?

I do think Shanny takes a job somewhere this year, and he'll come back re-invigorated and do a good job. Doesn't mean Bowlen is off the hook.

Bowlen will be off the hook. I have no doubts shanny comes back and I have no doubts it will be for 5+ mill. So if bowlen had to pay him 2 mil, mcd 3 mil(I'm not sure his number) then that would leave him 2 more mil to pay another coach with just the money he already planned to spend. If shanny doesn't take a job, he will be spending a lot more than that, so he has to have planned a good amount in the coaching budget.

jhns
09-08-2009, 11:55 AM
that is a stupid remark considering Orton is 21-12 in games he has started compared with Jay being 17-20.

LOL

Come say this after this season.... LOL

TailgateNut
09-08-2009, 12:03 PM
Dud I get under your skin or what... Are you ever going to stop crying about the things I say? You don't even know what it is like to play organized sports. I'm not sure why you think you would know something. Judging by your picture, you hav ent gotten out of your chair in years.

You aren't a better fan when the only reason you follow the team is for the social gatherings it creates. You are just a nerd that couldn't make friends without it. Of course everything is fine to you when you could care less about the sport.

FYI, (not that I need to respond to your uninformed accusations).I played HS football (3 yrs), Played soccer for over a decade, Played Raquetball for over a decade , Coached competative soccer for 6+ years.
Most of this was before your arrogant ass was hatched and released from the coop.
I severely injured my spine crashing a Huey in Korea, and after a semi-successful surgery and rehab I returned to organized and individual sports, but then in '97 I re-fractured my spine Skiing the east wall at A-basin. That was the end of my organized/ unorganized sports involvement.

So, you are right about ONE THING, I don't "get out of may chair" unless I ****ing feel like it.

Also, if you think I spend thousands of $$$ on Bronco tickets each year just for the social gatherings you're barking up the wrong tree. I don't need the Broncos to make friends, but I've met many people who have become my friends due to our mutual interest in the game and our love of the Broncos, the social gathering you have no clue of, and/ or love of the game.

One day you MIGHT understand, but I highly doubt it due to your complete and utter arrogance. IMO someone should have smacked you in the mouth on a daily basis for a few years, just for ****s and grins. Maybe some little kid at your school did.

jhns
09-08-2009, 12:07 PM
Coached and played soccer? Maybe that is what made you so feminine.

TailgateNut
09-08-2009, 12:09 PM
Coached and played soccer? Maybe that is what made you so feminine.

What's your excuse?

GoBroncos DownUnder
09-08-2009, 01:05 PM
I severely injured my spine crashing a Huey in Korea, and after a semi-successful surgery and rehab I returned to organized and individual sports, but then in '97 I re-fractured my spine Skiing the east wall at A-basin. That was the end of my organized/ unorganized sports involvement.
#GRUNT, SNORT# Holy **** TGN, that ain't half bad. :notworthy


... mumble, murmur ... whelp! ...
Sorry jhns, did you say something? Couldn't hear you over the noise of TGN crashing a Huey and causing an avalanche!:wave:

TailgateNut
09-08-2009, 01:27 PM
#GRUNT, SNORT# Holy **** TGN, that ain't half bad. :notworthy



Sorry jhns, did you say something? Couldn't hear you over the noise of TGN crashing a Huey and causing an avalanche!:wave:


LOL

Hey Brett, we'll have a VIP(special guest) at the Pitt tailgate. After we get him "ready" during the pre-game festivities he'll make an appearance on the field at half-time. He's a young man who deserves respect.

BTW: don't waste your breath on jhns. He and the REV remind me of the young punks (Billy Bad ASS Know it alls') who tried to rob the occupants of our limo when we took Jim's wife out for her BD.

As Gomer Pyle used to say "SERPRIISE, SERPRIISE, SERPRIISE".:wiggle:

Even though I ended up with a spiral break of my thumb (chasing the one of the ****ers while wearing dress shoes on wet pavement wasn't a good idea), the look on their faces was PRICELESS when tey got their asses beat and their get away driver "got away without them". Then after we got back into the limo Jim was NICE ENOUGH:spit: to try to re-set my thumb.Ha! OUCH.

Anywhoo, see ya at the squeeler game.

Inkana7
09-08-2009, 01:29 PM
LOL

Come say this after this season.... LOL

You're right, he can't because both will have played at least one more game and those stats will have changed. You astute devil, you..

jhns
09-08-2009, 01:46 PM
LOL

Hey Brett, we'll have a VIP(special guest) at the Pitt tailgate. After we get him "ready" during the pre-game festivities he'll make an appearance on the field at half-time. He's a young man who deserves respect.

BTW: don't waste your breath on jhns. He and the REV remind me of the young punks (Billy Bad ASS Know it alls') who tried to rob the occupants of our limo when we took Jim's wife out for her BD.

As Gomer Pyle used to say "SERPRIISE, SERPRIISE, SERPRIISE".:wiggle:

Even though I ended up with a spiral break of my thumb (chasing the one of the ****ers while wearing dress shoes on wet pavement wasn't a good idea), the look on their faces was PRICELESS when tey got their asses beat and their get away driver "got away without them". Then after we got back into the limo Jim was NICE ENOUGH:spit: to try to re-set my thumb.Ha! OUCH.

Anywhoo, see ya at the squeeler game.

This is exactly what I mean with you only caring about the social factor. You never even talk football on here. Everything is some made up story about how you are a tough guy or how you are going to beat everyone up as you talk behind a computer screen. It is all about getting yourself some friends... What kind of person has to try impressing people on the internet? Is your life that pathetic?

jhns
09-08-2009, 01:49 PM
You're right, he can't because both will have played at least one more game and those stats will have changed. You astute devil, you..

Fine, let's spell it out then. Try showing records to prove who is better after this season. Does that make it easier for you to understand?

Mr.Meanie
09-08-2009, 01:52 PM
Coached and played soccer? Maybe that is what made you so feminine.

Does jhns remind anyone else of Comicbook guy from the Simpsons?

GoBroncos DownUnder
09-08-2009, 02:03 PM
This is exactly what I mean with you only caring about the social factor. You never even talk football on here. Everything is some made up story about how you are a tough guy or how you are going to beat everyone up as you talk behind a computer screen. It is all about getting yourself some friends... What kind of person has to try impressing people on the internet? Is your life that pathetic?
#sigh!# Ah junior, ... if only you knew! If only ... #sigh!#
I'd try to explain, but there's only so many hours in the day.


"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler." - by Albert Einstein Hilarious!

jhns
09-08-2009, 02:07 PM
#sigh!# Ah junior, ... if only you knew! If only ... #sigh!#
I'd try to explain, but there's only so many hours in the day.


"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler." - by Albert Einstein Hilarious!

Why do you keep responding to my posts? I don't even know who you are. You have a hard on for tailgate or what? I'm sorry if I insulted your boyfriend. He keeps following me around though, so he kinda deserves it.

rastaman
09-08-2009, 02:10 PM
Yep, can't put it any better than that! ^5

If all McD is given 3 or 4 years.....simply put Bowlen will be searching for a new HEAD COACH. I wonder who it will be?? :wiggle:

TailgateNut
09-08-2009, 02:13 PM
This is exactly what I mean with you only caring about the social factor. You never even talk football on here. Everything is some made up story about how you are a tough guy or how you are going to beat everyone up as you talk behind a computer screen. It is all about getting yourself some friends... What kind of person has to try impressing people on the internet? Is your life that pathetic?


Was I talking to you? I don't believe I was, but you continue to feel that because you ARE THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE you must reply.

Blah blah blah: "I was watching football in the early eighties (when I was still in a stroller and pissing in my diaper), but I wasn't paying attention"....blah blah blah.....

The other problem is that I don't MAKE UP STORIES , and I have friends, hence the "social factor". You on the other hand want to impress people by acting like your football knowledge surpasses that of any and all NFL coaches, owners and managers. The same coaches, owners and managers who have been around football long before you started to wipe your own ass.

You're what most would label as being an arrogant "DICK"!

TailgateNut
09-08-2009, 02:16 PM
Why do you keep responding to my posts? I don't even know who you are. You have a hard on for tailgate or what? I'm sorry if I insulted your boyfriend. He keeps following me around though, so he kinda deserves it.

We understand that the concept of "FRIENDS" is beyond your mental capacity. Who the **** would want to hang out with an ASS!

FYI, I've known GBDU for a long time (you weren't even out of public school back then). He's been a Bronco fan from day one and has made treks from Australia to the US to follow his team, whereas you just type your BS on your moms computer.

jhns
09-08-2009, 02:20 PM
Was I talking to you? I don't believe I was, but you continue to feel that because you ARE THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE you must reply.

Blah blah blah: "I was watching football in the early eighties (when I was still in a stroller and pissing in my diaper), but I wasn't paying attention"....blah blah blah.....

The other problem is that I don't MAKE UP STORIES , and I have friends, hence the "social factor". You on the other hand want to impress people by acting like your football knowledge surpasses that of any and all NFL coaches, owners and managers. The same coaches, owners and managers who have been around football long before you started to wipe your own ass.

You're what most would label as being an arrogant "DICK"!

The entire 80s thing is just your inability to read. If that is your problem then I would suggest taking an english class or two and re-reading that conversation. It would make you seem a little less retarded.

You are making up stories. Link to the news report of the guys you beat up when they tried to rob you. Or did you guys just not report it? Even if you aren't making up breaking your back twice, why relive it here for some punk you don't care about? Again, nerd with a social disorder.

Sports are meant to be a way of socializing. I never said that was a bad thing. Just don't get mad at people that care about the team just because they aren't happy. Not everyone only watches this team for the social side. Some actually care about the football being played.

jhns
09-08-2009, 02:23 PM
We understand that the concept of "FRIENDS" is beyond your mental capacity. Who the **** would want to hang out with an ASS!

FYI, I've known GBDU for a long time (you weren't even out of public school back then). He's been a Bronco fan from day one and has made treks from Australia to the US to follow his team, whereas you just type your BS on your moms computer.

I am actually typing on one of my blackberrys right now. My computer and my house are far better than my moms so I have no need to go there and post, although I have before.

I bet I have traveled more miles than you two combined over the last 5 seasons in support of this team.

TailgateNut
09-08-2009, 02:31 PM
I am actually typing on one of my blackberrys right now. My computer and my house are far better than my moms so I have no need to go there and post, although I have before.

I bet I have traveled more miles than you two combined over the last 5 seasons in support of this team.

Sure thing Sonny. It's all good. You ARE DA MAN. One Blackberry for your Murse and one for the belt!

Carry on Junior!

BroncoMan4ever
09-08-2009, 02:36 PM
FYI, (not that I need to respond to your uninformed accusations).I played HS football (3 yrs), Played soccer for over a decade, Played Raquetball for over a decade , Coached competative soccer for 6+ years.
Most of this was before your arrogant ass was hatched and released from the coop.
I severely injured my spine crashing a Huey in Korea, and after a semi-successful surgery and rehab I returned to organized and individual sports, but then in '97 I re-fractured my spine Skiing the east wall at A-basin. That was the end of my organized/ unorganized sports involvement.



damn dude, you are one tough bastard. as a guy who has played a lot of sports and been injured more than my fair share of times, i have to give it up to a fellow jock who has suffered some bad injuries. i always thought my old injuries sucked, but compared with spine injuries(twice) mine are practically just little scrapes in comparison.

GoBroncos DownUnder
09-08-2009, 02:38 PM
TGN, you're killing me! :rofl: Your "centre of the universe" summary couldn't be more correct!:thumbs:

This guy's even traveled further than me ... :rofl: a flight LONGER than the 14hr international NON-STOP one to LAX, then an easy 3.5hr flight to the mid-west, followed by a DRIVE to New Jersey! (Sure it's possible, but WTF?)
You're my hero jhns!




(Makes me think of a dumber version of a guy called shanahandjob/Kaufman26);)

TailgateNut
09-08-2009, 02:45 PM
I am actually typing on one of my blackberrys right now. My computer and my house are far better than my moms so I have no need to go there and post, although I have before.

I bet I have traveled more miles than you two combined over the last 5 seasons in support of this team.

Maybe you should consider trading one of your "many" Blackberrys for a piece of ass. It couldn't hurt.
I know that's not the way you and the Rev swing but we could talk you through the process.


BTW: I only have one Blackberry. I've always had a hard time talking on two phones at one time and sychronizing the bastards is time consuming.

TailgateNut
09-08-2009, 02:49 PM
TGN, you're killing me! :rofl: Your "centre of the universe" summary couldn't be more correct!:thumbs:

This guy's even traveled further than me ... :rofl: a flight LONGER than the 14hr international NON-STOP one to LAX, then an easy 3.5hr flight to the mid-west, followed by a DRIVE to New Jersey! (Sure it's possible, but WTF?)
You're my hero jhns!




(Makes me think of a dumber version of a guy called shanahandjob/Kaufman26);)


I just think of them (jhns and REV) as my little puppets. Sorta like playing with a puppy. You throw something and they come running. They act like they know what their doing, but in reality they're dumb as a box of rocks.

BUT, they are CUTE!:~ohyah!:

jhns
09-08-2009, 02:51 PM
Maybe you should consider trading one of your "many" Blackberrys for a piece of ass. It couldn't hurt.
I know that's not the way you and the Rev swing but we could talk you through the process.


BTW: I only have one Blackberry. I've always had a hard time talking on two phones at one time and sychronizing the bastards is time consuming.

It is easy to sync them. Just hook them to a computer or have your service provider do it for you. You can get every number and file transfered pretty quick.

I can't trade in either of them. One is free from work and I have a 2 year plan on the other (which I had before the free one).

Don't worry about the ass I get. Looking at your picture, I would say I am not the one to be worried about.

jhns
09-08-2009, 02:54 PM
TGN, you're killing me! :rofl: Your "centre of the universe" summary couldn't be more correct!:thumbs:

This guy's even traveled further than me ... :rofl: a flight LONGER than the 14hr international NON-STOP one to LAX, then an easy 3.5hr flight to the mid-west, followed by a DRIVE to New Jersey! (Sure it's possible, but WTF?)
You're my hero jhns!




(Makes me think of a dumber version of a guy called shanahandjob/Kaufman26);)

Aww look, taikgates gay little friend defending him again. Are you afraid he can't stick up for himself or is it that you don't like seeing his feelings hurt?

You made that one trip? LOL Not real hard to travel further than that in 5 years. Maybe you don't move much in that part of the world but I like to see new places.

TailgateNut
09-08-2009, 02:57 PM
Aww look, taikgates gay little friend defending him again. Are you afraid he can't stick up for himself or is it that you don't like seeing his feelings hurt?

You made that one trip? LOL Not real hard to travel further than that in 5 years. Maybe you don't move much in that part of the world but I like to see new places.

Erasing all doubt with each post. The "football version" of BarryR.

TailgateNut
09-08-2009, 02:59 PM
It is easy to sync them. Just hook them to a computer or have your service provider do it for you. You can get every number and file transfered pretty quick.

I can't trade in either of them. One is free from work and I have a 2 year plan on the other (which I had before the free one).

Don't worry about the ass I get. Looking at your picture, I would say I am not the one to be worried about.

Hey Dumbass. You can't figure out when someone is playing you like a fiddle, can you?

BTW: I'm not worried about the Rev. (I'm curios to see how long it will take you to figure that one out)Hilarious!

Puppet!

colonelbeef
09-08-2009, 03:02 PM
Erasing all doubt with each post. The "football version" of BarryR.

He obviously knows far more about the Broncos and their current state of affairs than you do, and this season will bear this out

jhns
09-08-2009, 03:05 PM
Hey Dumbass. You can't figure out when someone is playing you like a fiddle, can you?

BTW: I'm not worried about the Rev. (I'm curios to see how long it will take you to figure that one out)Hilarious!

Puppet!

Sorry to tell you this but you have been a puppet for a month now. Go look at how you follow me around now after getting all butthurt. As they say "The proof is in the pudding."

Your social inadequacies have been a good source of entertainment for on many slow afternoons.

TailgateNut
09-08-2009, 03:07 PM
He obviously knows far more about the Broncos and their current state of affairs than you do, and this season will bear this out

Obviously. I stand corrected. ROFL!

He knows what happened behind closed doors, just like you.
He knows the thought processes used to make decisions.
He knows the outcomes of games before they're played.

How could I be so smug, to question the "all knowing one". My BadHa!

GoBroncos DownUnder
09-08-2009, 03:09 PM
Aww look, taikgates gay little friend defending him again. Are you afraid he can't stick up for himself or is it that you don't like seeing his feelings hurt?

You made that one trip? LOL Not real hard to travel further than that in 5 years. Maybe you don't move much in that part of the world but I like to see new places.
Annnnnd, like clockwork, he's reduced himself to "gay smack"!LOL Game Over!
Honestly, I always felt a great deal of pitty for guys who confuse mutual respect between men for "being gay", it's a lonely life you in for! ;)


As for the travel, I've made that trip about 4 times (?) now, call me when you travel the USA seeing 19 football games in 10 weeks. Start a new thread if you like, cause this one's over!:curtsey:

jhns
09-08-2009, 03:14 PM
Annnnnd, like clockwork, he's reduced himself to "gay smack"!LOL Game Over!
Honestly, I always felt a great deal of pitty for guys who confuse mutual respect between men for "being gay", it's a lonely life you in for! ;)


As for the travel, I've made that trip about 4 times (?) now, call me when you travel the USA seeing 19 football games in 10 weeks. Start a new thread if you like, cause this one's over!:curtsey:

Did you make those 4 trips in the last 5 years? If so, you probably have me beat. If not, good job telling me a life story I could care less about.

TailgateNut
09-08-2009, 03:15 PM
Annnnnd, like clockwork, he's reduced himself to "gay smack"!LOL Game Over!
Honestly, I always felt a great deal of pitty for guys who confuse mutual respect between men for "being gay", it's a lonely life you in for! ;)


As for the travel, I've made that trip about 4 times (?) now, call me when you travel the USA seeing 19 football games in 10 weeks. Start a new thread if you like, cause this one's over!:curtsey:

Someone who can't "buy a friend" obviously would not understand.

BUT he DOES have 2 BLACKBERRYS. :wiggle: Cause as we all know, one won't do if you're trying to match the color of your shoes. Image IS important.:spit:

TailgateNut
09-08-2009, 03:19 PM
Did you make those 4 trips in the last 5 years? If so, you probably have me beat. If not, good job telling me a life story I could care less about.

You have us all beat.
You are the best.
The "all knowing".
Da Man (once you take off the dress and pumps)! :rofl:

You spend more.
You travel more.
You know more.
You have more.

Da Man!

jhns
09-08-2009, 03:25 PM
You have us all beat.
You are the best.
The "all knowing".
Da Man (once you take off the dress and pumps)! :rofl:

You spend more.
You travel more.
You know more.
You have more.

Da Man!

You can say all that again.

Mr.Meanie
09-08-2009, 03:25 PM
On the internet everyone's a millionaire, dates models, and has TWO blackberries!

TailgateNut
09-08-2009, 03:29 PM
On the internet everyone's a millionaire, dates models, and has TWO blackberries!


Now I'll have to run over to the Sprint store and get a second one. :~ohyah!:

Regardless I'll still feel insignificant. Haven't dated a model (My wife is just fine) , and the millionaire thingy went out the window raising three children and my addiction to Bronco football put a dent in the annual budget.:~ohyah!:

jhns
09-08-2009, 03:41 PM
Yes, two blackberrys make me a pretty cool guy. Don't worry though, with some hard work and dedication you could afford two phones as well one day. It isn't my fault I am better than you in pretty much every way. You could all do something about it and improve yourselves at any time. Maybe start by getting a degree or two and go from there. The rest comes pretty easy.

As for you guys and the social problems, I'm not sure you can fix those. People want to be around you or they don't. When they don't, at least you still have the internet.

Pseudofool
09-08-2009, 05:46 PM
FWIW, On ESPN's NFL Insiders, Adam Shefter, Mort, and the other guy all scoff at Clayton's notion of the Broncos going 3-13; Both Shefter and the other guy think the Broncos will be better than last year.

lex
09-08-2009, 05:52 PM
FWIW, On ESPN's NFL Insiders, Adam Shefter, Mort, and the other guy all scoff at Clayton's notion of the Broncos going 3-13; Both Shefter and the other guy think the Broncos will be better than last year.

Yeah, and it wasnt really a surprise that some clown like Smith would mention the red zone scoring and then a moment later would acknowledge the RB injuries without connecting the dots.

Schefter gets it. He had hard data at the ready like the turnover issue and the ypc being offset by the leading rusher only having 300 something yards. The other guys are just there to talk about Bradichick.

Pseudofool
09-08-2009, 06:12 PM
Smith would mention the red zone scoring and then a moment later would acknowledge the RB injuries without connecting the dots. Are you seriously reducing our redzone problems to injuries to running backs?

lex
09-08-2009, 06:18 PM
Are you seriously reducing our redzone problems to injuries to running backs?

Yup.

frerottenextelway
09-08-2009, 06:26 PM
Someone who can't "buy a friend" obviously would not understand.

BUT he DOES have 2 BLACKBERRYS. :wiggle: Cause as we all know, one won't do if you're trying to match the color of your shoes. Image IS important.:spit:

Why would anyone have 1 blackberry? Those are the biggest pieces of sh_t.

Circle Orange
09-08-2009, 07:59 PM
Clayton is a pinch faced dope who falls in love with certain players and teams. It's comical the way he pretends to be objective. 3-13 is utter nonsense.

Eldorado
10-08-2009, 02:58 PM
This one's kind of fun.

azbroncfan
10-08-2009, 04:15 PM
Id's say last years team was a solid 6 with really 1 side of he ball to fix. We had money and picks, even before trading Cutler.

We MAY get 6 wins for a variety of reasons. 5-11 is optimistic.

I really can't imagine a worse offseason in Denver.

Every move was either quetionable or outright stupid.

In the old days I'd tell you the alcohol was kicking your ass but I don't think you drink anymore. Denver is one win away from you sticking your foot in your mouth. What do you predict now?

Broncojef
10-08-2009, 04:43 PM
He's right.

No, like you he's consistently wrong.

TailgateNut
10-08-2009, 04:57 PM
It's not like Clayton is out to lunch with that prediction. New head coach, new DC, new defense, no new significant defensive additions, lost our best player and franchise QB, #1 WR having issues, OL all of a sudden looks vunerable, DL is still horrible, Orton has been horrific in pre-season, Moreno is injured, front office has made questionable decision after questionable decision...this team is in a huge state of flux atm, and that doesn't usually translate into winning.

It's going to be a very long season.



:spit:

Paladin
10-08-2009, 05:01 PM
Haters hate before the play.

Doggcow
10-08-2009, 05:02 PM
ROFL @ the responses to this thread.


When somebody disses the Broncos, they're "know nothing clowns" or "hacks" or whatever insult you can come up with.

When somebody praises the Broncos (or bashes the Raiders/Chiefs/Chargers), you people can't post the links here fast enough.

L-M-F-A-O

L-M-F-A-O, Newsflash, HE IS A CLOWN AND A HACK!

Bronx33
10-08-2009, 05:09 PM
Someone with some website savvy should start a site called (claytondon'tknowshyt.com)

Hogan11
10-08-2009, 05:13 PM
Where's that pic of McD serving up the crow when you need it?

Bronco Yoda
10-08-2009, 05:20 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/netizen/Bronco%20Avs/mcdanielsservescrow.gif

mmmmmmmmmmmmm.....mmmmmmmmmm.....gooooood!

BroncoSojia
10-08-2009, 05:25 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/netizen/Bronco%20Avs/mcdanielsservescrow.gif

mmmmmmmmmmmmm.....mmmmmmmmmm.....gooooood!

Hilarious! Hilarious!
Hilarious!


I'm stealing this, if you don't mind

Hogan11
10-08-2009, 05:27 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/netizen/Bronco%20Avs/mcdanielsservescrow.gif

mmmmmmmmmmmmm.....mmmmmmmmmm.....gooooood!

That is great on so many levels :rofl:

Archer81
10-08-2009, 05:34 PM
That is great on so many levels :rofl:


The facial expression sets it off perfectly.


:Broncos:

delany
10-08-2009, 05:55 PM
The hat makes him look taller.

HEAV
10-11-2009, 10:54 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/netizen/Bronco%20Avs/mcdanielsservescrow.gif

mmmmmmmmmmmmm.....mmmmmmmmmm.....gooooood!

bump

Bronx33
10-11-2009, 11:08 PM
Clayton

1. Jury still out on Denver: Settle down, Broncos fans. I know I predicted a 3-13 season for the Broncos, but October will be the true test to see where this team is heading. The Broncos will play Dallas, New England and San Diego in October. In November, they'll face Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Washington, San Diego and the New York Giants. That's the gauntlet I used in making the 3-13 prediction. Where will the Broncos get their wins during this stretch? Their initial test will be the next two home games against the Cowboys and Patriots. They might reach six or seven wins by the end of the season if they win one of those games. It's pretty clear the Broncos have established themselves as a better team than the Chiefs and Raiders in the AFC West.

lazarus4444
10-11-2009, 11:23 PM
lmao, this is great! I'm having a lot of fun with this team~!

cutthemdown
10-11-2009, 11:31 PM
Yup.

but we had them for a number of yrs. It wasn't just a one yr thing.

cutthemdown
10-11-2009, 11:32 PM
Clayton tried to backtrack, then still got burned.

Clayton is a no nothing. He should be fired. How and the hell does this dude have a career in the greatest sport on earth.

Pseudofool
10-11-2009, 11:55 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/notebook?page=lastcall09/week55. Broncos sitting pretty: The Broncos' 20-17 overtime win over the New England Patriots was bad news for the San Diego Chargers. Now, next Monday night's Broncos-Chargers game in San Diego is a must-win for the Chargers. At 5-0, the Broncos lead the AFC West by 2 games. With a victory, the Broncos can run away with a division that many thought was going to be a runaway for the Chargers.

As the Chargers review the scouting report of Denver's latest victory, they have to be concerned. The Broncos did so many things well. Kyle Orton passed for 330 yards. Rookie Knowshon Moreno (88 yards on 21 carries) was able to consistently find running room. Both Brandon Marshall (eight catches, two for touchdowns) and Eddie Royal (10 catches for 90 yards) are getting hot at the right time.

And the Broncos were able to contain the explosive Patriots defense. Randy Moss was a non-factor with one catch for 36 yards. Holding Tom Brady to 215 yards isn't easy, but the Broncos contained him. The Broncos are the league's biggest surprise team. They can start to claim the AFC West as early as next week.

UberBroncoMan
10-12-2009, 12:09 AM
Clayton tried to backtrack, then still got burned.

Clayton is a no nothing. He should be fired. How and the hell does this dude have a career in the greatest sport on earth.

You could say that about most of these guys sadly.

cutthemdown
10-12-2009, 12:58 AM
You could say that about most of these guys sadly.

What they should say is making predictions is really hard. In fact its almost impossible. We have to make them and I picked the Broncos to be one of the bad teams. I wish I had picked them to be the surprise team because then I wouldn't look like such a dummy.

John Clayton AKA the cryptkeeper!!!

lex
10-12-2009, 07:14 AM
And the Broncos were able to contain the explosive Patriots defense. Randy Moss was a non-factor with one catch for 36 yards. Holding Tom Brady to 215 yards isn't easy, but the Broncos contained him. The Broncos are the league's biggest surprise team. They can start to claim the AFC West as early as next week.


John should really try editing his work.

Punisher
10-12-2009, 07:20 AM
Argue about what? I won't say predicting the broncos go 3-13 is a balls to the walls prediction because we really might go 3-13 seriously.

Ha! Sorry about that..... I'm just a gutless drunk :griese:

Hogan11
10-12-2009, 07:21 AM
Hey Johnny...

dbfan21
10-12-2009, 07:22 AM
Hey Johnny...

Nice! That's awesome! LOL

Chris
10-12-2009, 07:23 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/notebook?page=lastcall09/week5

"Some" thought the Broncos would suck, not him apparently.