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ZONA
09-04-2009, 10:54 AM
Seriously, wtf are you McD haters complaining about? Shanahan won a single playoff game in the last 10 years and you guys act like he was gods gift to football and that Josh can do nothing right. I loved Shanahan as much as the next guy but once I stepped back and looked at the whole picture, good god, Bowlen was right to fire him. 1 playoff win in a 10 year span is so ridiculously bad it's not even funny. Most other coaches would have been long gone before Mike was let go. Yup, he won a few superbowls very early and I think that's what earned him that precious extra time but I don't see how anybody could say he should have stayed with that kind of drought.

So when Josh comes in here to try to change things up a bit, guys here are acting like we have been a winning team or something and what he's doing is hurting our chances for the future. Oh, you mean like winning a single playoff game in 10 years kinda future? Please, get some F'n perspective of the last 10 years and give it a rest. You're not willing to give Josh a few years before you evaluate him but you were willing to give Mike a 10 year free ride. It's NFL insanity is what it is.

cousinal11
09-04-2009, 10:55 AM
:thanku:

tsiguy96
09-04-2009, 10:55 AM
http://shannon-oneill.net/images/oh%20noes%202.jpg

kamakazi_kal
09-04-2009, 10:55 AM
use one of the thousand existing threads.

ZONA
09-04-2009, 10:57 AM
http://shannon-oneill.net/images/oh%20noes%202.jpg

That's a funny fricken picture man. Hahahhahaha, gotta love it.

Taco John
09-04-2009, 10:58 AM
I can only speak for myself, but I believe that Shanahan had us on track to be a dominant force in the NFL. I know that people don't agree with me, and that's ok with me. Their disagreement does nothing to distract me from where I believed Shanahan was headed.

Taco John
09-04-2009, 11:00 AM
Just out of curiosity, why didn't you just bump one of the hundreds of threads we've had on this topic? What's the point of re-raising this old subject again and again. Do you think you had anything worth adding to the discussion that merited another thread? If so, now would be a good time to add it.

no-pseudo-fan
09-04-2009, 11:00 AM
My biggest issue with McD is the whole bringing everything NE to Denver. He brings in NE castoffs to Denver. I never liked NE or the way they did things. I understand that NE won lots of games, but the NE way isn't the only way. Trying to be Mini Belicheat is not winning anyone over. Kind of like Increda-Boy, I mean Buddy, I mean Syndrome. The lame knockoff version of a successful product is not what I want my beloved Broncos to become.

jhns
09-04-2009, 11:02 AM
The first thing you need to realize is not everyone is sayong we didn't need changes just because they don't like mcdaniels.

I do not know why but this country has gotten on this kick lately that any change is good. That is dumb. Yes, stuff can need to be changed. That stuff still needs the correct changes. You can't just make any change and say its for the better just because it isn't what was here before.

gyldenlove
09-04-2009, 11:02 AM
Do you know what the funny thing is?

1 playoff win is 1 more than Mcdaniels has.

kamakazi_kal
09-04-2009, 11:05 AM
use one of the thousand existing threads.

umm.

DenverBroncosJM
09-04-2009, 11:05 AM
I would like to remind everyone part of the reason Shanny isnt here is because he did not want to fire slowik...

Or did I hear that on the light rail?

Taco John
09-04-2009, 11:06 AM
I would like to remind everyone part of the reason Shanny isnt here is because he did not want to fire slowik...




This has been proven false about a million times.

BlaK-Argentina
09-04-2009, 11:09 AM
Do you know what the funny thing is?

1 playoff win is 1 more than Mcdaniels has.

And how many games has McDaniels coached?

Dr. Broncenstein
09-04-2009, 11:11 AM
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/PfaffVWseller/AwesomeThread.jpg

gtown
09-04-2009, 11:14 AM
Shanahan was never gonna get defense right. Even during the SB years, he was inheriting an already passable defense. Also, five DCs in five years is an absolute red flag that he had no idea WTF was going on on that side of the ball.

I applaud the McD hire. The Broncos have been an undisciplined group the last few years and they absolutely have no fire. What else to explain our annual late season swoon and our horrible home record. I think McD will at least get these guys to play hard as a team, something I doubted Shanny could do the last few years.

orangeatheist
09-04-2009, 11:17 AM
My biggest issue with McD is the whole bringing everything NE to Denver. He brings in NE castoffs to Denver. I never liked NE or the way they did things. I understand that NE won lots of games, but the NE way isn't the only way. Trying to be Mini Belicheat is not winning anyone over. Kind of like Increda-Boy, I mean Buddy, I mean Syndrome. The lame knockoff version of a successful product is not what I want my beloved Broncos to become.

Turn the calendar back a few years and you might have read:

My biggest issue with Shanny is the whole bringing everything SF to Denver. He brings in SF castoffs to Denver. I never liked SF or the way they did things. I understand that SF won lots of games, but the SF way isn't the only way. Trying to be Mini Walsh is not winning anyone over. Kind of like Increda-Boy, I mean Buddy, I mean Syndrome. The lame knockoff version of a successful product is not what I want my beloved Broncos to become.

Could'a happened.

gyldenlove
09-04-2009, 11:17 AM
And how many games has McDaniels coached?

You would rather have a guy with no experience?

Because I will coach for a lot less than Mcdaniels makes and I have won just as many games as he has.

orangemonkey
09-04-2009, 11:19 AM
My biggest issue with McD is the whole bringing everything NE to Denver. He brings in NE castoffs to Denver. I never liked NE or the way they did things. I understand that NE won lots of games, but the NE way isn't the only way. Trying to be Mini Belicheat is not winning anyone over. Kind of like Increda-Boy, I mean Buddy, I mean Syndrome. The lame knockoff version of a successful product is not what I want my beloved Broncos to become.

Agree with this wholeheartedly. And New England was caught cheating. No one knows the full extent of how much they cheated but it's safe to say that McD was in the middle of it. Even throughout NE's good seasons, Broncos were mostly dominate. I don't trust McD whatsoever. He has a lot of proving to do and it begins next week.

gyldenlove
09-04-2009, 11:19 AM
Turn the calendar back a few years and you might have read:

My biggest issue with Shanny is the whole bringing everything SF to Denver. He brings in SF castoffs to Denver. I never liked SF or the way they did things. I understand that SF won lots of games, but the SF way isn't the only way. Trying to be Mini Walsh is not winning anyone over. Kind of like Increda-Boy, I mean Buddy, I mean Syndrome. The lame knockoff version of a successful product is not what I want my beloved Broncos to become.

Could'a happened.

So that fact that Shanahan already had experience in Denver is just ignored in your very lame attempt at an argument?

TonyR
09-04-2009, 11:20 AM
You would rather have a guy with no experience?

Do we really need to revisit the exercise of listing the multiple successful coaches, including several current head coaches, who had no head coaching experience when they took the job? It's been done here on the Mane at least a dozen times in the last few months. Please don't require it to be done again in response to the nonsense you just posted above. Please. For the love of god.

worm
09-04-2009, 12:04 PM
Stick to medical threads Zona.

tsiguy96
09-04-2009, 12:05 PM
http://www.mywii.com.au/img/gallery/full/RSBLDRS8.jpg

TailgateNut
09-04-2009, 12:06 PM
I can only speak for myself, but I believe that Shanahan had us on track to be a dominant force in the NFL. I know that people don't agree with me, and that's ok with me. Their disagreement does nothing to distract me from where I believed Shanahan was headed.

We just had to give him another DECADE, and we would have been the first team to win 5 Lombardies in a row.:spit:

alkemical
09-04-2009, 12:07 PM
I can only speak for myself, but I believe that Shanahan had us on track to be a dominant force in the NFL. I know that people don't agree with me, and that's ok with me. Their disagreement does nothing to distract me from where I believed Shanahan was headed.

I know SSJ more or less agrees with that as well.

Chris
09-04-2009, 12:10 PM
I personally believed Shanahan had us going nowhere and Bowlen's testicles expanded to the size of watermelons before he stormed into Shanny's dust covered off and seized the opportunity to inject some new life into our team.

Dukes
09-04-2009, 12:14 PM
My biggest issue with McD is the whole bringing everything NE to Denver. He brings in NE castoffs to Denver. I never liked NE or the way they did things. I understand that NE won lots of games, but the NE way isn't the only way. Trying to be Mini Belicheat is not winning anyone over. Kind of like Increda-Boy, I mean Buddy, I mean Syndrome. The lame knockoff version of a successful product is not what I want my beloved Broncos to become.

Honestly, what did you expect him to do? Forget everything he's learned and keep everything they way Shanny had it just because that's the way things were done in the past?

TailgateNut
09-04-2009, 12:15 PM
i personally believed shanahan had us going nowhere and bowlen's testicles expanded to the size of watermelons before he stormed into shanny's dust covered off and seized the opportunity to inject some new life into our team.


qft.

WolfpackGuy
09-04-2009, 12:17 PM
I personally believed Shanahan had us going nowhere and Bowlen's testicles expanded to the size of watermelons before he stormed into Shanny's dust covered off and seized the opportunity to inject some new life into our team.

Orton's definitely new.
I'm not sure how much life he has in him though.

Mr.Meanie
09-04-2009, 12:18 PM
You would rather have a guy with no experience?

Because I will coach for a lot less than Mcdaniels makes and I have won just as many games as he has.

Yeah, and they should cut Moreno and sign you as RB, because he has as many NFL rushing yards as you do. ::)

worst argument ever

loborugger
09-04-2009, 12:21 PM
There was this thread once started on the Mane about Bowlen being a gutless drunk. It came about 9 months ago and has covered this topic pretty ****ing extensively.

Eldorado
09-04-2009, 12:40 PM
http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp305/orangeandblue08/motivatornuts.jpg

Bronx33
09-04-2009, 12:44 PM
Just out of curiosity, why didn't you just bump one of the hundreds of threads we've had on this topic? What's the point of re-raising this old subject again and again. Do you think you had anything worth adding to the discussion that merited another thread? If so, now would be a good time to add it.

And we would still be on track but sadly jay cutler is a b**** so put the blame squarely where it belongs also mike signed his own termination papers and gave pat little choice. (that's all iam saying on this way overhashed subject) and zona has a point people complain no matter what happens it's a freaking flow chart with some of the peeps on this board.

broncocalijohn
09-04-2009, 01:47 PM
Do you know what the funny thing is?

1 playoff win is 1 more than Mcdaniels has.

but 10 years more than McDaniels has got. I will take the McDaniels and the chance we get more than 1 win.
Zona, I think it all comes down to if a sprain is a stretch or torn and if Kuper has either. This will be McDaniels doing for the season.

bendog
09-04-2009, 02:07 PM
I know SSJ more or less agrees with that as well.

I agree too. I'm not sure he had the defense in hand, but .... there were at least two ways for Bowlen to handle that w/o firing Shanny, nor was I happy with T. Henry.

colonelbeef
09-04-2009, 02:09 PM
need a map man? you are extremely lost.

SportinOne
09-04-2009, 02:25 PM
Man, one solid preseason game against a team that has struggled ALL PRESEASON and suddenly the nuthuggers get a little hop in their step.

If anything, last night only proved how bad Kyle Orton might be.

TheReverend
09-04-2009, 02:26 PM
There's only one appropriate response for this thread........

http://i28.tinypic.com/rvvwy8.gif

rastaman
09-04-2009, 03:32 PM
Seriously, wtf are you McD haters complaining about? Shanahan won a single playoff game in the last 10 years and you guys act like he was gods gift to football and that Josh can do nothing right. I loved Shanahan as much as the next guy but once I stepped back and looked at the whole picture, good god, Bowlen was right to fire him. 1 playoff win in a 10 year span is so ridiculously bad it's not even funny. Most other coaches would have been long gone before Mike was let go. Yup, he won a few superbowls very early and I think that's what earned him that precious extra time but I don't see how anybody could say he should have stayed with that kind of drought.

So when Josh comes in here to try to change things up a bit, guys here are acting like we have been a winning team or something and what he's doing is hurting our chances for the future. Oh, you mean like winning a single playoff game in 10 years kinda future? Please, get some F'n perspective of the last 10 years and give it a rest. You're not willing to give Josh a few years before you evaluate him but you were willing to give Mike a 10 year free ride. It's NFL insanity is what it is.

I'm not in a rebuilding mood for one. Coaches in their 30's in the NFL don't until their in their 40's. McD has no Franchise Qb and has yet to prove he can win with low end mediocre journeyman QB's. McD won with a Franchise-Pro Bowl-HOF QB, and was able to win with Cassel due to the system Belichick has installed.

So again, McD will have to prove himself and win plain and simple. I understand McD has a 3 year window to create a miracle and at least be ready to make the playoffs and win at least one playoff game.

Belichick assist. coaches who become HC have yet to show they can win on a consistent basis w/o Daddy Belichick at their side for guidance and reassurance.

Last, if you believe Josh is the answer you go ahead and knock yourself out. Besides you can comeback and say I told you so. All the McD doubters can comeback and say we were wrong.....but I highly doubt it.

Bronx33
09-04-2009, 03:59 PM
I'm not in a rebuilding mood for one. Coaches in their 30's in the NFL don't until their in their 40's. McD has no Franchise Qb and has yet to prove he can win with low end mediocre journeyman QB's. McD won with a Franchise-Pro Bowl-HOF QB, and was able to win with Cassel due to the system Belichick has installed.

So again, McD will have to prove himself and win plain and simple. I understand McD has a 3 year window to create a miracle and at least be ready to make the playoffs and win at least one playoff game.

Belichick assist. coaches who become HC have yet to show they can win on a consistent basis w/o Daddy Belichick at their side for guidance and reassurance.

Last, if you believe Josh is the answer you go ahead and knock yourself out. Besides you can comeback and say I told you so. All the McD doubters can comeback and say we were wrong.....but I highly doubt it.


Just end it and hand in your fan card...

ant1999e
09-04-2009, 04:01 PM
Shanahan was never gonna get defense right. Even during the SB years, he was inheriting an already passable defense. Also, five DCs in five years is an absolute red flag that he had no idea WTF was going on on that side of the ball.

I applaud the McD hire. The Broncos have been an undisciplined group the last few years and they absolutely have no fire. What else to explain our annual late season swoon and our horrible home record. I think McD will at least get these guys to play hard as a team, something I doubted Shanny could do the last few years.

This change may be good or Shanahan. He has been out visiting dominent defensive teams during training camp. I would asume learning a thing or two about the defense. Sometimes you get in a rut and need to take a step back and re-evaluate your gameplan. I wish Mike good luck in the future. That being said, McD is our coach like it or not. :bronxrox:

Bronx33
09-04-2009, 04:04 PM
This change may be good or Shanahan. He has been out visiting dominent defensive teams during training camp. I would asume learning a thing or two about the defense. Sometimes you get in a rut and need to take a step back and re-evaluate your gameplan. I wish Mike good luck in the future. That being said, McD is our coach like it or not. :bronxrox:


Exactly.

BroncoMan4ever
09-04-2009, 04:44 PM
I can only speak for myself, but I believe that Shanahan had us on track to be a dominant force in the NFL. I know that people don't agree with me, and that's ok with me. Their disagreement does nothing to distract me from where I believed Shanahan was headed.

he might have had the offense on track to possibly become dominant(although the ton of yards with no points to show was getting old)

but that defense was on its way to becoming the worst ever seen.

ScottXray
09-04-2009, 06:00 PM
Do you know what the funny thing is?

1 playoff win is 1 more than Mcdaniels has.

And TEN years is 10 more years than McDaniel has had.

Really, it's premature to say he is going to fail.

Shanny wrote his own ticket off the team when he said "We WILL make the playoffs this year." last preseason.

That is FAIL!:wiggle:

Bronx33
09-04-2009, 06:01 PM
And TEN years is 10 more years than McDaniel has had.

Really, it's premature to say he is going to fail.

Shanny wrote his own ticket off the team when he said "We WILL make the playoffs this year." last preseason.

That is FAIL!:wiggle:



Look another positive post!!!

Finger Roll
09-04-2009, 06:15 PM
he might have had the offense on track to possibly become dominant(although the ton of yards with no points to show was getting old)

but that defense was on its way to becoming the worst ever seen.

I know right. Everytime the Broncos defense was on the field it was like watching a train wreck over and over again.

maher_tyler
09-04-2009, 06:21 PM
I can only speak for myself, but I believe that Shanahan had us on track to be a dominant force in the NFL. I know that people don't agree with me, and that's ok with me. Their disagreement does nothing to distract me from where I believed Shanahan was headed.

He was headed for a dominating O fallowed by a devestating D. Funny how much better our D has looked so far this pre-season over the past 2 years!

watermock
09-04-2009, 06:44 PM
So let's draft 6 of 9 on offense, trade our 2 young offensive probowlers and a top 10 pick in '10 for a nickle corner..

gyldenlove
09-04-2009, 06:52 PM
Yeah, and they should cut Moreno and sign you as RB, because he has as many NFL rushing yards as you do. ::)

worst argument ever

I didn't bring up the argument...

gyldenlove
09-04-2009, 06:54 PM
And TEN years is 10 more years than McDaniel has had.

Really, it's premature to say he is going to fail.

Shanny wrote his own ticket off the team when he said "We WILL make the playoffs this year." last preseason.

That is FAIL!:wiggle:

Absolutely, but do we really think that a guy who has absolutely no headcoaching experience at any level is going to come in here and be a lot better than a headcoaching legend?

Bronx33
09-04-2009, 07:03 PM
Absolutely, but do we really think that a guy who has absolutely no headcoaching experience at any level is going to come in here and be a lot better than a headcoaching legend?

I don't think hes even remotely implying that.

listopencil
09-04-2009, 07:28 PM
I can only speak for myself, but I believe that Shanahan had us on track to be a dominant force in the NFL. I know that people don't agree with me, and that's ok with me. Their disagreement does nothing to distract me from where I believed Shanahan was headed.


He was definitely building an incredible Offense.

listopencil
09-04-2009, 07:39 PM
he might have had the offense on track to possibly become dominant(although the ton of yards with no points to show was getting old)

but that defense was on its way to becoming the worst ever seen.

Check this out, lex posted it in a thread about the 53 man roster/last preseason game and it really got me thinking to see it like this. These are our impact draft selections, 96-05:



Rd Sel # Player Position School
1996 1 15 John Mobley OLB Kutztown Def
2 44 Tory James DB Louisiana State Def
3 65 Detron Smith RB Texas A&M
3 78 Mark Campbell DT Florida Def

1997 1 28 Trevor Pryce DT Clemson Def


1998 1 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee
2 61 Eric Brown SS Mississippi State Def
3 91 Brian Griese QB Michigan


1999 1 31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee Def
2 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech Def
2 61 Lennie Friedman C Duke
3 67 Chris Watson CB Eastern Illinois Def
3 93 Travis McGriff WR Florida

2000 1 15 Deltha O'Neal CB California Def
2 40 Ian Gold LB Michigan Def
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy SAF Arkansas Def
3 70 Chris Cole WR Texas A&M

2001 1 24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota Def
2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall Def
3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State Def


2002 1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.)
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State Def

2003 1 20 George Foster T Georgia
2 51 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State Def


2004 1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.) Def
2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State
2 54 Darius Watts WR Marshall
3 85 Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan Def


2005 2 56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State Def
3 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State Def
3 97 Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland Def
3 101 Maurice Clarett -- Ohio State

# players 33 Def 21




...and they certainly made a profound impact on the team.

Taco John
09-04-2009, 08:24 PM
He was definitely building an incredible Offense.

Do you think it's harder to build a good offense or a good defense?

oubronco
09-04-2009, 08:27 PM
Do you think it's harder to build a good offense or a good defense?

The hardest thing to do is build both there has to be a happy medium

If only Shanny would've sent Slowick packing

listopencil
09-04-2009, 08:29 PM
Do you think it's harder to build a good offense or a good defense?

I'm going to say D. NFL rules favor the O, and I think there is more teamwork involved in a successful D.

Odysseus
09-04-2009, 10:06 PM
I can only speak for myself, but I believe that Shanahan had us on track to be a dominant force in the NFL. I know that people don't agree with me, and that's ok with me. Their disagreement does nothing to distract me from where I believed Shanahan was headed.

I thought Shanahan had lost his focus. He was a substantial coach but something was missing. I think the Broncos would have been better off to have kept him. I think the Broncos could have turned it around.

McD has taken more hits than any coach in Broncos history and he hasn't even coached a regular season game. McD would have to win at least ten games this year to have any chance at respect from the fan base at large. I personally don't think he will even see eight.

People don't like change so if it is change they don't understand they hate you, quit on you, or make any leadership decision you make look bad.

Mogulseeker
09-04-2009, 10:08 PM
I LOLd

Mogulseeker
09-04-2009, 10:10 PM
Check this out, lex posted it in a thread about the 53 man roster/last preseason game and it really got me thinking to see it like this. These are our impact draft selections, 96-05:




...and they certainly made a profound impact on the team.

I wish we still had Reggie Heyward.

Odysseus
09-04-2009, 10:10 PM
Do you think it's harder to build a good offense or a good defense?

I think the league has substantially changed this question. The NFL rules play a larger part in this equation every year it seems.

errand
09-04-2009, 11:29 PM
Do you know what the funny thing is?

1 playoff win is 1 more than Mcdaniels has.



...and 7 non-playoff seasons is 7 more than McDaniels has too.

...and 3 playoff losses the past decade is 3 more than McDaniels has as well.

...and 3 mediocre seasons since your last playoff loss is 3 more than McDaniels has too.

errand
09-04-2009, 11:32 PM
You would rather have a guy with no experience?

Because I will coach for a lot less than Mcdaniels makes and I have won just as many games as he has.


True...but McDaniels isn't an idiot loser posting on a football forum from his mom's basement. so based on that Pat made a wiser choice.

watermock
09-04-2009, 11:34 PM
asn't this offseason the time to address the D, since our O was #2 in the NFL in total yards? (minus a RB)

errand
09-04-2009, 11:40 PM
Absolutely, but do we really think that a guy who has absolutely no headcoaching experience at any level is going to come in here and be a lot better than a headcoaching legend?

Hey moron...how did this coaching legend get to become a coaching legend?

someone has to to be the first person to hire him as a head coach.

RMT
09-04-2009, 11:41 PM
Do you know what the funny thing is?

1 playoff win is 1 more than Mcdaniels has.

as a head coach maybe but he contributed plenty to the playoff wins NE has had in recent years.

DBroncos4life
09-04-2009, 11:49 PM
as a head coach maybe but he contributed plenty to the playoff wins NE has had in recent years.
As a OC he didn't win a SB ring, didn't the other two that won SB rings go on to fail? Awesome we get the loser of the group.

errand
09-05-2009, 12:14 AM
As a OC he didn't win a SB ring, didn't the other two that won SB rings go on to fail? Awesome we get the loser of the group.

...you mean a loser like Mike who was our OC in '89 when the 49ers made the Broncos lick a cat's ass 55-10 in SB XXIV? Who's best call of the day was a 26 yard shuttle pass to Bobby Humphrey? And then was stupid enough to call another one on the very next play where it was almost intercepted?

He turned out OK didn't he?

DBroncos4life
09-05-2009, 12:24 AM
...you mean a loser like Mike who was our OC in '89 when the 49ers made the Broncos lick a cat's ass 55-10 in SB XXIV? Who's best call of the day was a 26 yard shuttle pass to Bobby Humphrey? And then was stupid enough to call another one on the very next play where it was almost intercepted?

He turned out OK didn't he?

Yeah the same loser that left Denver to only join another team and become a SB winner with the 49ers in 94 then comeback to us a few years later a SB champion. Its almost like he left and learned something from one of the greatest NFL coaches of all-time that has a HUGE MOTHER ****ING SUCCESS RATE FROM ALL OF HIS COACHES THAT COACHED UNDER HIM.

Cleo McDowell
09-05-2009, 12:31 AM
http://www.freebietrader.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/delete-cookies.jpg

ZONA
09-05-2009, 12:39 AM
sorry I haven't been able to respond yet, I've been at work and just now got off.


I know Shanny was shocked when he was let go and probably upset at first but I think he came to realize it was time because in his own words he said "I just didn't get the job done". The pressure was really starting to mount over the past few seasons, with all the new DC's every year to a defense that was going downhill faster then the speed of light to horrible special teams every season. I don't think Bowlen felt it was right to just keep Mike as HC and remove his GM duties after all these years. I think Bowlen felt like Mike just needed a different scene altogether and he's probably right. 14 consecutive years as an NFL coach with one team is a very long time. All of those long hours he put in, I think he needed a break from the game, at least one where he didn't have to be here every day for 18 hours.

I don't think we can compare the early years for Mike the same way we will be able to for Josh, simply because Josh didn't inherit a legend at QB. Jay is good but he's no Elway that's for sure.

I guess the reason for my post was I felt so many people were saying they thought we were going to suck so bad, as if we haven't sucked so bad before hand for a very long time. You judge a team on winning, and even more so with playoff wins, not by how many yards the offense can produce. I also think Shanny was starting to put together a very dominant offense, but just the same, it wasn't going to do anything because of ST's and defense. We kept going through bad DC's and very bad defensive FA's and draft picks every single year. I honestly believe the team once again would have had an average to bad season this year under Shanny so new blood wasn't such a bad idea in my book.


Anyway, the regular season is now here and it's about time. I'm pumped. I know we are going to have a rough go at it but none the less I'm very excited to watch Broncos football (regular season style). Go BRONCOS !!!

Odysseus
09-05-2009, 01:11 AM
I hope Shanahan IS learning about defense because he defenses sucked. I think Ant is right that he really did need to take a step back. All the money he made with the Broncos I am wondering where he will pop up next.

errand
09-05-2009, 04:45 AM
Yeah the same loser that left Denver to only join another team and become a SB winner with the 49ers in 94 then comeback to us a few years later a SB champion. Its almost like he left and learned something from one of the greatest NFL coaches of all-time that has a HUGE MOTHER ****ING SUCCESS RATE FROM ALL OF HIS COACHES THAT COACHED UNDER HIM.

..and you don't think Josh McDaniels who has been said to be alot like Mike Shanahan himself, doesn't have the same potential coming from the staff of this past decades most successful head coach?

Sure Mangini and Crennel haven't done too good...but they had their moments with the Jets flirting with the playoffs this past season and the Browns having a 10-6 record two seasons ago.

But then again Mike wasn't a successful head coach in his first two seasons at Oakland, nor did he do all that good in his first season as Broncos HC...his first three seasons saw him sitting at 16-20. He then went onto post 13-3, 12-4, 14-2 records with two titles....

Unlike you, I have no idea what the future holds...which is why I'm not stupid enough to predict it.

gunns
09-05-2009, 05:06 AM
Just end it and hand in your fan card...

Is that you tsi?

Cito Pelon
09-05-2009, 07:26 AM
Absolutely, but do we really think that a guy who has absolutely no headcoaching experience at any level is going to come in here and be a lot better than a headcoaching legend?

I think the point is you should give him a chance before trying to run him out of town.

Cito Pelon
09-05-2009, 07:34 AM
Do you think it's harder to build a good offense or a good defense?

The object is always to build a good overall team in all three phases plus the fourth phase - the coaching staff. That's how you win playoff games consistently.

Shanny hadn't been able to do that since 1998, and since he hadn't been able to do that for 10 years I was skeptical he would be able to do it in the next few years.

rastaman
09-05-2009, 04:00 PM
Turn the calendar back a few years and you might have read:

My biggest issue with Shanny is the whole bringing everything SF to Denver. He brings in SF castoffs to Denver. I never liked SF or the way they did things. I understand that SF won lots of games, but the SF way isn't the only way. Trying to be Mini Walsh is not winning anyone over. Kind of like Increda-Boy, I mean Buddy, I mean Syndrome. The lame knockoff version of a successful product is not what I want my beloved Broncos to become.

Could'a happened.

You go with what you're comfortable with. McD already shows flashes that he's a mini-Belichick. Watch how many NE cast offs that will be joining McD in Denver over the next two years.

rastaman
09-05-2009, 04:13 PM
I think the point is you should give him a chance before trying to run him out of town.

McD is getting his chance. Just b/c some fans have their doubts how McD will do at his first coaching gig.....does not mean the fans are trying to run him out of town! McD stays in Denver he can win....plain and simple.

listopencil
09-05-2009, 04:16 PM
Just end it and hand in your fan card...

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=24797&d=1251954212

lazarus4444
09-05-2009, 04:57 PM
I can only speak for myself, but I believe that Shanahan had us on track to be a dominant force in the NFL. I know that people don't agree with me, and that's ok with me. Their disagreement does nothing to distract me from where I believed Shanahan was headed.

Ok, explain to us what track to being a dominant force that we were on? It'll be interesting to hear this, please, tell us how we were heading in the right direction. And before you answer would you agree that for a team to be a dominant force that all three phases of the game (Offense, Defense, Special Teams) need to be at least average?

rastaman
09-05-2009, 06:29 PM
With salary cap, free agency, and the fact that a 32 team league dilutes the talent base around the NFL.....it is very difficult if not impossible for a team(s) be dominant let alone average in all 3 phases of the game (offense, defense and special teams).

broncocalijohn
09-05-2009, 09:33 PM
Ok, explain to us what track to being a dominant force that we were on? It'll be interesting to hear this, please, tell us how we were heading in the right direction. And before you answer would you agree that for a team to be a dominant force that all three phases of the game (Offense, Defense, Special Teams) need to be at least average?

that track would be the light rail track. TJ, like many here, respected and liked Mike. I did. Once I found out his package deal of him and Slowick are like bobsy twins, I understood the Move to Fire him. We were treading water as our Offense was getting stronger but our Defense was just unbearable. TJ wont be able to explain it. You can believe in Mike but not with his staff or some of those players would we do crap this or next season.

errand
09-05-2009, 09:50 PM
With salary cap, free agency, and the fact that a 32 team league dilutes the talent base around the NFL.....it is very difficult if not impossible for a team(s) be dominant let alone average in all 3 phases of the game (offense, defense and special teams).

..which makes Josh McDaniels offensive achievments in NE all that much more astounding.

Taco John
09-06-2009, 02:54 AM
Turn the calendar back a few years and you might have read:

My biggest issue with Shanny is the whole bringing everything SF to Denver. He brings in SF castoffs to Denver. I never liked SF or the way they did things. I understand that SF won lots of games, but the SF way isn't the only way. Trying to be Mini Walsh is not winning anyone over. Kind of like Increda-Boy, I mean Buddy, I mean Syndrome. The lame knockoff version of a successful product is not what I want my beloved Broncos to become.

Could'a happened.

And he would have gotten all of that too if he would have came in during his first year and tried to bring in Elvis Grbac (who Mike was said to be a fan of) to replace John Elway.

This whole split isn't as cut and dried as anybody wants to make it.

Winning will cure it though.

Taco John
09-06-2009, 03:13 AM
Ok, explain to us what track to being a dominant force that we were on? It'll be interesting to hear this, please, tell us how we were heading in the right direction. And before you answer would you agree that for a team to be a dominant force that all three phases of the game (Offense, Defense, Special Teams) need to be at least average?


What would be the point of explaining it to you? It's clear that you don't agree and just want to focus on what you saw that was negative with the team. For me to explain any positives of the direction that Shanahan had this team going isn't going to make you forget about the negatives that you saw. So what's the point?

I'm just saying that I believed that we were headed in the right direction, even though I understood that we still had a ways to go on defense. To that end, Shanahan had put the team in position with more resources than we've had in seasons ready to be chiefly focused on the defense and getting things squared away there. I believe that we were within two years of Superbowl contention. Popps himself, one of the top Shanahan bashers in this forum, thought that we were within two years of the Superbowl in February when asked (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=77411&highlight=SUperbowl).

I don't see where it's such a stretch to believe we were headed in the right direction.

Odysseus
09-06-2009, 04:31 AM
Success in anything depends on perception. If the Broncos had players from the last three year's Superbowls to pick from Josh would still have a heck of a hole to coach from psychologically. The team is so fractured that as soon as the duct tape and chewing gum falls off during the season the fans will all scream "told you!" when in fact this team has not really had a fair shake from Bowlen through Josh to the fans. It's been a perfect storm of stupidity so for them to win and turn it around.....you are talking about a lot of winning.

55CrushEm
09-06-2009, 05:46 AM
Check this out, lex posted it in a thread about the 53 man roster/last preseason game and it really got me thinking to see it like this. These are our impact draft selections, 96-05:




...and they certainly made a profound impact on the team.

R u f'ing kidding me?!? This is a joke, right? You're telling me that everyone on this list "made a PROFOUND impact on the team"?????? LOL LOL LOL

Marcus Nash?
Friedman?
McGriff?
O'Neal?
Cole?
Middlebrooks?
Tovessi?
Lelie?
Dorsett Davis?
George Foster?
Tatum "Tinker" Bell?
Darius Watts?
Jeremy LeSeur?
Clarett?

Really? Profound impacts????? Please tell me you're joking, or that I slept through those years, or that you were being sarcastic.......please.

tsiguy96
09-06-2009, 05:57 AM
they will stop at nothing to prove mcdaniels is an idiot and was sent here to destroy this team. clearly, mcdaniels has zero interest in winning.

MaloCS
09-06-2009, 06:18 AM
**** McDingleBerry! **** him in the ear!