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View Full Version : If Orton had Brandstater's game tonight...


footstepsfrom#27
09-04-2009, 12:13 AM
Pretend for a moment that it was Orton under center tonight and he's the one who had the game we saw from the rookie, what would be the general feeling about the QB position going into the season?

Zoobie
09-04-2009, 12:20 AM
The general feeling would be it's the preseason, just put away the crystal balls and wait 1 more week.

SureShot
09-04-2009, 12:25 AM
Well considering Orton would have to throw it further than 13 yards to replicate Brandstaters performance just can't make that reach in my mind. Sorry.

randomtask
09-04-2009, 12:25 AM
Personally, i'd feel surprised and have more confidence in him, seeing how he suddenly shows some accuracy and zip on passes deeper than 10 yards.

footstepsfrom#27
09-04-2009, 12:32 AM
I'd be willing to bet that if it was Orton we saw turning in this game, this board would be choked with ecstatic predictions that all is well. The kid did just about everything right once again, and he had a 35 yard TD pass dropped in the end zone. If Orton was throwing the ball like this, there would be no QB controversy at all.

SureShot
09-04-2009, 12:35 AM
I'd be willing to bet that if it was Orton we saw turning in this game, this board would be choked with ecstatic predictions that all is well. The kid did just about everything right once again, and he had a 35 yard TD pass dropped in the end zone. If Orton was throwing the ball like this, there would be no QB controversy at all.

But Orton can't throw the ball like that. That is why he sucks.

NUB
09-04-2009, 12:39 AM
And why Tom Bra- needs to be starting.

OCBronco
09-04-2009, 12:42 AM
I was impressed with Brandstater in the sense that he's really improved since the first preseason game. This is one thing that I'm hopeful about this season.

Whatever you want to say about McD the person or GM, he has stocked the coaching staff with very good coaches, and I think we'll see this translate into better play as the season moves forward. Heck, we're already seeing it in places, especially on D.

McMastermind
09-04-2009, 12:46 AM
If Orton was throwing the ball like this, there would be no QB controversy at all.


There is none.

Popps
09-04-2009, 12:48 AM
Brandstater's best asset might be his attitude. The guy just isn't remotely afraid of any of this. Unlike Orton, he's being held to no standards, and I think that helps, too. Dude can just go out and fling the ball and make things happen.

Also, people need to keep in mind that Orton is running a complete (or near) version of our offense, while Brandstater/Simms are running a lot more drops, play-action, etc.
McD threw Orton right to the wolves with the whole play-book, minus some deep stuff... and I honestly think deep stuff has been drawn up, but Orton has chosen not to make the throws on several occasions. (For better or worse.)

I like this kid a lot. He's got an arm, he's big, he's fairly mobile... and he's got a little swagger. He's absolutely not intimidated by the concept of starting.

Hey, McDaniels took him for a reason.... and I suspect Brandstater has made big strides towards being considered as a starter if Orton doesn't pan out.

Very exciting stuff.

Broncos4Life
09-04-2009, 12:52 AM
The general feeling would be it's the preseason, just put away the crystal balls and wait 1 more week.

Really???
Orton doesnt look like Brandstater in the pocket and he sure as h3ll doesnt throw like him either.

McMastermind
09-04-2009, 12:58 AM
If Orton had Brandstater's game tonight...

Denver Comp Att Yds Pct Y/A Sack YdsL TD Int Rating
T. Brandstater 16 30 187 53.3 6.2 2 7 0 1 58.6


.......I'd be pretty bummed. Thank God preseason is over.

BMarsh615
09-04-2009, 01:01 AM
The Mane would be imploding because he threw an interception, but Brandstater gets a pass.

footstepsfrom#27
09-04-2009, 01:05 AM
Brandstater's best asset might be his attitude. The guy just isn't remotely afraid of any of this. Unlike Orton, he's being held to no standards, and I think that helps, too. Dude can just go out and fling the ball and make things happen.

Also, people need to keep in mind that Orton is running a complete (or near) version of our offense, while Brandstater/Simms are running a lot more drops, play-action, etc.
McD threw Orton right to the wolves with the whole play-book, minus some deep stuff... and I honestly think deep stuff has been drawn up, but Orton has chosen not to make the throws on several occasions. (For better or worse.)

I like this kid a lot. He's got an arm, he's big, he's fairly mobile... and he's got a little swagger. He's absolutely not intimidated by the concept of starting.

Hey, McDaniels took him for a reason.... and I suspect Brandstater has made big strides towards being considered as a starter if Orton doesn't pan out.

Very exciting stuff.
Nobody knows how much of the playbook McDaniels is letting Brandstater run and that's pure speculation on your part. If anyting, it appears that Orton is the one without the full playbook, sinc 90% of everthing he's doing is a screen, quick slant or something short.

Here's my point; A lot of people think it's a virtual impossibility for Brandstater to start, but Orton started as a rookie and the Bears won 10 games. Granted the defense and special teams deserve most of the credit, but the point is he started, and he did it in an offense that utilized mostly short passes. While this one might run more complicated formations, we're still talking about a low risk offense that uses the short pass much like the run. Orton did it...and from what I can see he's no great shakes after 4 years in the league. He himself is saying that he's not adjusted to the offense yet, which was supposedly why he got the job handed to him in the first place. It looks to me like Orton being the unquestioned starter isn't based much on his performance.

If Orton started as a rookie, is it so far outside the realm of possibility that this kid could handle it as well? I'm not really saying he should, just that maybe we might not want to rule the possibility out. The finger injury is another wild card. If it turns out we lay an egg in Cincy with KO at the controls...

footstepsfrom#27
09-04-2009, 01:07 AM
If Orton had Brandstater's game tonight...

Denver Comp Att Yds Pct Y/A Sack YdsL TD Int Rating
T. Brandstater 16 30 187 53.3 6.2 2 7 0 1 58.6


.......I'd be pretty bummed. Thank God preseason is over.
Yeah well the stats don't tell much of the story. He had several drops including a 35 yard TD pass in the end zone. He looked pretty damn good no matter what the line says. Besides that, he did it all without the main starting skill position guys and a lot of that was against the Cards #1 defense.

footstepsfrom#27
09-04-2009, 01:08 AM
There is none.
I wouldn't be to sure of that. If we lose in Cincy with Orton, I bet it begins.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-04-2009, 01:18 AM
The Mane would be imploding because he threw an interception, but Brandstater gets a pass.

yeh, the general feeling would be to pick at his mistakes. Though Tom B looked great tonight....throws a beautiful ball

footstepsfrom#27
09-04-2009, 01:26 AM
yeh, the general feeling would be to pick at his mistakes. Though Tom B looked great tonight....throws a beautiful ball
Maybe...but if was throwing the ball like this, would people be as critical? He says he can do it. We'll see soon enough I guess.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-04-2009, 01:28 AM
Maybe...but if was throwing the ball like this, would people be as critical? He says he can do it. We'll see soon enough I guess.

C'mon, this is the mane, of course they'dbe critical.

I'll agree that Brandstater played beyond what the stats suggest tonight. He took some shots downfield that went for incompletions and again was working with the 3/4 teamers. Other than the pick, he made the right decisions and threw an accurate and pretty ball.

Popps
09-04-2009, 02:00 AM
.


Here's my point; A lot of people think it's a virtual impossibility for Brandstater to start, but Orton started as a rookie and the Bears won 10 games.

I'm not ruling out the kid starting. Anything is possible. I'm just saying that 14 ****ing days ago, this entire forum wanted to cut the kid. Everyone here thought he was dog****.

People think Orton is ****, now... but I'm not sure that's accurate. I think he's done some things well.

If Kyle has a couple of good games, you'll see people here changing their tunes again. This place has no attention-span and makes rash decisions based on very limited evidence. Maybe all boards do.

I like Brandstater. I see something there. He's talented. I'm just not ready to dump Orton just yet. I think we've got to see more to make a decision. Orton deserves the chance to start a game or two, imo.

Taco John
09-04-2009, 02:13 AM
Pretend for a moment that it was Orton under center tonight and he's the one who had the game we saw from the rookie, what would be the general feeling about the QB position going into the season?


I personally put about zero amount of stock in game four of the preseason. Scrubs playing scrubs.

Taco John
09-04-2009, 02:15 AM
You could fill this period a million times with the amount of stock that
I put into a performance in game four of the preseason: .

Not that he didn't appear to do well. It's just that it's game four of the preseason...

footstepsfrom#27
09-04-2009, 03:07 AM
You could fill this period a million times with the amount of stock that
I put into a performance in game four of the preseason: .

Not that he didn't appear to do well. It's just that it's game four of the preseason...
Agreed. But some things are noticeable even in preseason. The ability to make the throws, the command in the pocket, the confidence, maybe the ability to check down to other receivers...etc. I'm not saying this guy's ready, I'm only saying it's not like he's battling Peyton Manning and it's happened before...Orton himself started this early.

It would shock me if Orton doesn't start the early part of the season. I'm not so sure it would surprise me if somewhere during the year he's on the bench for this kid.

McD after all, does fancy himself the ultimate QB mentor...does he not?

colonelbeef
09-04-2009, 05:12 AM
Lets all relax. 4th preseason game- the game typically treated as a true and total exhibition game from top to bottom- (see Warner in the game for 1 quarter although the cardinals' O has been struggling) saw the Broncos score exactly 1 TD off of 3 turnovers and multiple other possessions.

Brandstater was good enough to win against a bad team today, but 19 points against an Arizona team that is a)playing terribly and b)treated this as an exhibition for defensive 3rd and 4th stringers is not much to get excited about.

Brandstater looks like he could actually be a functional, average NFL Qb. Orton is just that much worse.

rmsanger
09-04-2009, 05:27 AM
I'd rather lose developing a rook QB behind center than starting a 5+ year vet that happens to be Chad Pennington's sister.

errand
09-04-2009, 06:24 AM
Brandstater played Ok for a rookie...but once again guys it's the pre-season. Players who look like all-world suddenly look pretty freaking ordinary come regular season and vice versa.

I'm not a big believer in playing rookie QB's...and our own history should be enough proof that we shouldn't do it this year either. The only upside to playing a rookie is he'll get some valuable experience...however you could also stunt his growth should he lose confidence in his abilities when he doesn't put up good numbers and hears some boos from the stands.

Go with the veteran until he's no longer the best option....trust me, Brandstater will look worse than Orton come regular season....not because he stinks, but because he's inexperienced.

Broncoman13
09-04-2009, 06:50 AM
I personally put about zero amount of stock in game four of the preseason. Scrubs playing scrubs.

Actually there were a lot of starters out there for both teams. I was a bit surprised to see Fitz out there and Kurt Warner played quite a bit as well. Not saying that this was more than an exhibition game, but the Broncos did have success against the Cardinals' #1s.

Garcia Bronco
09-04-2009, 08:11 AM
Orton is mentally weak. And until he proves otherwise...its what I'll be saying.

Rohirrim
09-04-2009, 08:13 AM
Actually there were a lot of starters out there for both teams. I was a bit surprised to see Fitz out there and Kurt Warner played quite a bit as well. Not saying that this was more than an exhibition game, but the Broncos did have success against the Cardinals' #1s.

What was with Leonard Pope playing the entire game? He must be in Wisenhunt's dog house. ;D

Popcorn Sutton
09-04-2009, 08:18 AM
Well considering Orton would have to throw it further than 13 yards to replicate Brandstaters performance just can't make that reach in my mind. Sorry.

Seriously? Sarcasm?

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WolfpackGuy
09-04-2009, 08:40 AM
Orton has the arm of Jamie Moyer's wife.
It would be impossible for him to ever have Tom B Jr's game.
That one pass to Jackson in the first should tell everyone what they need to know.

RaiderH8r
09-04-2009, 08:48 AM
The Mane would be imploding because he threw an interception, but Brandstater gets a pass.

Mostly because we didn't trade a pro bowl 25 year old QB for him. That might be a good part it.

kamakazi_kal
09-04-2009, 08:56 AM
Pretend for a moment that it was Orton under center tonight and he's the one who had the game we saw from the rookie, what would be the general feeling about the QB position going into the season?

it would be.....

Oooooo he can throw the ball past the LOS. Amazing. What no screens? I must be dreaming ...... ...... .... yep, I was dreaming shIIt

Broncos4tw
09-04-2009, 09:00 AM
Well two things: I like that highlight video, it actually gives me a bit more confidence. A bit. But... it also shows that other thread about him only being in a 3-step system is bunk. He did many 5-step drops in that video, in Chicago. There goes that lame theory.

But at least it shows he isn't a one-trick pony, perhaps there is hope, thanks for the video. He still needs to lead the ball better and look past the first receiver, I hope this isn't the "system" at work. If so, it sucks.

jhns
09-04-2009, 09:06 AM
It wasn't a great game by the QB and for a veteran like Orton it would be a bad game considering a lot of it was against backups, some of which won't be in this league in a week.

For Tom, the rookie, this was a good game. He has shown a ton of improvement in a very short time. I like seeing that. I still don't think he is starting material yet but he has shown some promise for the future.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-04-2009, 09:10 AM
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/11/2009/09/500x_orton.jpg

Orton: "I sure hope he didn't take my job."
5th of JD: "Drink me!"
Orton: "Okay!"

footstepsfrom#27
09-04-2009, 09:13 AM
How amazing is it that it's come to us even having this discussion?

footstepsfrom#27
09-04-2009, 09:13 AM
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/11/2009/09/500x_orton.jpg

Orton: "I sure hope he didn't take my job."
5th of JD: "Drink me!"
Orton: "Okay!"
He looks like he's trying to squeeze one out.

ghwk
09-04-2009, 09:18 AM
I still remember Elway's quote "Anyone can look good in a preseason game".

Rohirrim
09-04-2009, 09:22 AM
He looks like he's trying to squeeze one out.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/11/2009/09/500x_orton.jpg

Or it's surprise buttsecks.

cutthemdown
09-04-2009, 09:23 AM
I personally put about zero amount of stock in game four of the preseason. Scrubs playing scrubs.

actually they rolled out there first team for a couple series on offense. They couldn't get jack done.

Arizona looks bad. They are my pick to not get back into playoffs this yr in the NFC.

bombquixote
09-04-2009, 09:33 AM
If Orton had Brandstater's game tonight...

Denver Comp Att Yds Pct Y/A Sack YdsL TD Int Rating
T. Brandstater 16 30 187 53.3 6.2 2 7 0 1 58.6


.......I'd be pretty bummed. Thank God preseason is over.

Don't poop on the parade, buddy!

What you say is absolutely true. I think people here are excited mostly because Brand throws a much prettier ball than Orton. He also seems more athletic. And given how much he's improved over the course the three games, he's obviously bright. Orton is almost certainly the better choice for the moment, but the future suddenly looks a lot brighter with Brandstater being groomed on the side.

Pseudofool
09-04-2009, 09:49 AM
If Orton had Brandstater's game tonight...

Denver Comp Att Yds Pct Y/A Sack YdsL TD Int Rating
T. Brandstater 16 30 187 53.3 6.2 2 7 0 1 58.6


.......I'd be pretty bummed. Thank God preseason is over.Exactly. If Orton had this game, the same people that are praising Brandstater would be dogging Orton. We'd be focusing on the interception, the sacks, and the incompletions. And we'd be livid over the redzone field goals.

I can't believe the myopia around here about the QB play.

TheDave
09-04-2009, 09:52 AM
Didn't Jarius Jackson light it up on the final preseason game on year?

USMCBladerunner
09-04-2009, 11:28 AM
this is preseason, so it means almost nothing...almost...

He looks a damn sight better than he did the first game, where he wouldn't pull the trigger at all. I see skills in the guy, but preseason performance is really meaningless. Cleo Lemon is preseason f'ing allstar, but can't land a team right now. He's progressing, which is what you want to see, but he isn't even close to starting yet IMO.

footstepsfrom#27
09-04-2009, 11:38 AM
Exactly. If Orton had this game, the same people that are praising Brandstater would be dogging Orton. We'd be focusing on the interception, the sacks, and the incompletions. And we'd be livid over the redzone field goals.

I can't believe the myopia around here about the QB play.
He had what...one or two sacks behind the 2nd team line? And you left out the dropped 35 yard TD pass in the end zone, and several other drops as well. The offense scored just about every time it got the ball in the first half, certainly an improvement over the 3 pick game Orton had earlier. I think based on the downfield passes people would be optimistic if it was Orton under center, especially since Royal, Marshall, Scheffler, Hillis and Moreno were either not in the game at all or barely saw the field.

footstepsfrom#27
09-04-2009, 11:39 AM
this is preseason, so it means almost nothing...almost...

He looks a damn sight better than he did the first game, where he wouldn't pull the trigger at all. I see skills in the guy, but preseason performance is really meaningless. Cleo Lemon is preseason f'ing allstar, but can't land a team right now. He's progressing, which is what you want to see, but he isn't even close to starting yet IMO.
Agreed. But who else is either?

kamakazi_kal
09-04-2009, 11:53 AM
man, this is awesome. Brandstater was decent last night but, not stellar. The fact that everyone is so geeked on him shows just how desparate we are for even OK play from the QB position. ^5

gyldenlove
09-04-2009, 12:23 PM
Seriously? Sarcasm?

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He looks like a discus thrower with that windup whenever he throws more than 20 yards, his whole body gets swinging to get any kind of distance.

It is also not encouraging that you have to go back to his college days to find some long passes.

gyldenlove
09-04-2009, 12:25 PM
Exactly. If Orton had this game, the same people that are praising Brandstater would be dogging Orton. We'd be focusing on the interception, the sacks, and the incompletions. And we'd be livid over the redzone field goals.

I can't believe the myopia around here about the QB play.

That might be related to the fact that Brandstater is a late round draft pick rookie who has seen only sparse playing time and doesn't play with 1st teamers.

Orton has infinitely better circumstances, if he can't significantly outperform Brandstater than Orton should be cut right now.

Pseudofool
09-04-2009, 12:57 PM
He had what...one or two sacks behind the 2nd team line? And you left out the dropped 35 yard TD pass in the end zone, and several other drops as well. The offense scored just about every time it got the ball in the first half, certainly an improvement over the 3 pick game Orton had earlier. I think based on the downfield passes people would be optimistic if it was Orton under center, especially since Royal, Marshall, Scheffler, Hillis and Moreno were either not in the game at all or barely saw the field.Weren't you getting my case for adding caveats to excuse Orton's performance (or lack thereof) a couple weeks ago? If a plethora of penalties aren't a legitimate caveat to excuse Orton's and the offenses performance last week--dropped passes shouldn't forgive Brandstaters unspectacular QB rating (and that was with a much better running game).

And when did Orton ever have Marshall and Moreno?

Seriously, the bitterness left over from the Cutler saga must be coloring how you actually see and analyze the game. I can't reconcile it any other way.

Pseudofool
09-04-2009, 01:51 PM
That might be related to the fact that Brandstater is a late round draft pick rookie who has seen only sparse playing time and doesn't play with 1st teamers.

Orton has infinitely better circumstances, if he can't significantly outperform Brandstater than Orton should be cut right now.Dude, Brandstater was playing the majority of the game against the 2nd and 3rd team AZ defense. I'd say the circumstances end up being a wash.