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View Full Version : Taking the forum's temperature: Optimistic or Pessimistic?


Popps
09-01-2009, 03:12 PM
So, we've played all of our meaningful pre-season games. We've seen some good, some bad, some injuries and at least a tiny bit of evidence of where this team may be headed going forward.

After one of the most polarized off-seasons in memory... where do you stand?

Poll coming...

TheReverend
09-01-2009, 03:13 PM
Make public, please

azbroncfan
09-01-2009, 03:13 PM
I was optimistic but now after watching the preseason I have a bad feeling about the direction this football team is going and wonder how they are going to land a QBOTF.

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2009, 03:14 PM
Once again, realist won't be an option.

Popps
09-01-2009, 03:15 PM
Once again, realist won't be an option.

I think you can be realistic with these options. But, this is definitely designed to see where people are. So, "I don't know" or "I don't care" isn't so much what I'm curious to find out.

None of us has a crystal ball, but this is a gut-feel thing...

bronco militia
09-01-2009, 03:15 PM
I thinkthis team is in trouble until the next regime

PRBronco
09-01-2009, 03:16 PM
I'm excited man. Orton looks a bit shaky, I hope he finds his confidence. But I'm excited for what looks to be a good running game, and if BM pulls his head out of his ass, a very good offense in general. I also like the solid if unspectacular veteran defense, they'll give us a chance to win some games.

*edit* I'm even excited for the pee yellow jerseys.

Pick Six
09-01-2009, 03:16 PM
Every team goes through growing pains. It's the way it is and we'll be back dominating the football world in no time...:strong:

bowtown
09-01-2009, 03:18 PM
I'm not entirely sure that we are set back for decades as some would like us to believe, but suffice to say I am very concerned about the shape we are in.

Los Broncos
09-01-2009, 03:19 PM
Everythings going to be alright.

Florida_Bronco
09-01-2009, 03:21 PM
Optimistic.

cutthemdown
09-01-2009, 03:23 PM
Once again, realist won't be an option.

people always see there views as realistic. If your reality is to feel the Broncos screwed up bad and won't recover then that view seems reasonable to you.

Doesn't mean your not a pessimist though. That is more your outlook on life. Either you think things will work out or you don't. It speaks more to what type of personality you have then anything else.

cutthemdown
09-01-2009, 03:26 PM
football goes more in 5 yr cycles then 10 yr. Chances are last yr and this yr were spent finding some new talent. Hopefully that continues next couple yrs. By then Shannahans bad decisions might be overcame.

Probably way sooner had the team and Cutler not figures out a way to screw the fans in big way.

Even though I say I like Mcdaniels and think Cutler a baby, I still totally understand why people having a tough time staying positive.

It ****ing stinks we lost our QB. Doesn't matter what you get back QB is like the queen in Chess.

TheReverend
09-01-2009, 03:27 PM
I DO think the poll options are unclear.

The original caveat is "Okay we're headed into the season!" and then the optimistic option is "It may take time"

So what is it... this season? a couple years? long term? I mean, if you look long enough, of course we're headed for good things...

baja
09-01-2009, 03:29 PM
Taking the forum's temperature:

Before I vote would that be orally or rectally?

Dr. Broncenstein
09-01-2009, 03:29 PM
I hope I'm wrong... and I'm going to watch and root for my team.. but my gut feeling is that we're in for a painful 2-3 years. I wonder if McDaniels will be given a long enough leash. Again, my gut feeling is probably not.

baja
09-01-2009, 03:29 PM
Taking the forum's temperature:

Before I vote would that be orally or rectally?

lex
09-01-2009, 03:29 PM
I DO think the poll options are unclear.

The original caveat is "Okay we're headed into the season!" and then the optimistic option is "It may take time"

So what is it... this season? a couple years? long term? I mean, if you look long enough, of course we're headed for good things...

Popps just loves McDaniels no matter what to such an extent that he has said he would find a 4-12 season blissful since he believes in McDaniels so much that he could kiss him.

broncosteven
09-01-2009, 03:32 PM
Once again, realist won't be an option.

I would prefer a rebuilding year Option.

It is too early to vote, I would like to see some performance when games are on the line and the argument that they are "holding things back for RS" can no longer be applied.

I am going to try to give the new regime until week 4-6 or later before I decide if all this change was a total cluster ****.

I don't expect wins, I just want to see good things happening, kinda like the 95 season.

McMastermind
09-01-2009, 03:33 PM
Optimistic....I don't even think it will be "rocky at times".

Loving the fact that all the SCE's have Denver imploding and some even finishing in the basement of the AFCW.

The 3 opening turnovers in SF were a little disconcerting but I'm also liking that they went vanilla all the way and are 0-3. That's what you are supposed to do in preseason. I give McD alot of credit for not being tempted to show his cards in the Bears game especially given all the hype. He could've taken the easy route just to get a meaningless win but showed alot of maturity by keeping things vanilla on offense.

Defense looks much improved also but of course that is against other teams plain Jane offenses. At any rate, it's safe to say that Denver will allow fewer PPG this year under Nolan.

GO BRONCOS!

Tombstone RJ
09-01-2009, 03:38 PM
I hope McD learns from his mistakes and keeps his intensity and love of the game up and going. I think he could be and will be a great coach but this season will be his hardest test ever.

Even if the Broncos go 4-12 I doubt he'll get fired. He needs at least one more year before Bowlen makes another radical change to replace him.

If the team shows emprovement with each and every game, then Bowlen will keep the kid around...

kamakazi_kal
09-01-2009, 03:41 PM
I can't vote yet..... we still have too much time before the first game .....
What happens with Marshall and all that.

lazarus4444
09-01-2009, 03:41 PM
I am optimistic but i think the mood of most of the board, or at least a vocal minority, are greatly pessimistic. This is the first year of our transformation to the borg, victories will be coming in big numbers soon.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-01-2009, 03:43 PM
I think things will be alright, but will take time. More time than some people would like, but ithink we should stay the course

broncosteven
09-01-2009, 03:43 PM
I hope McD learns from his mistakes and keeps his intensity and love of the game up and going. I think he could be and will be a great coach but this season will be his hardest test ever.

Even if the Broncos go 4-12 I doubt he'll get fired. He needs at least one more year before Bowlen makes another radical change to replace him.

If the team shows emprovement with each and every game, then Bowlen will keep the kid around...

I doubt we see anything electric out of him until later in the year. It will take some getting used to dealing with the flow of the season. He has never been totally responsible for the team before this season is going to be a learning year.

I can deal with it if he shows flashes.

So far I haven't seen any flashes but it is PS.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-01-2009, 03:44 PM
I talk to people who arent broncos fans that have said to me "i think you guys have the worst team in the NFL." When i ask why, they just shrug their shoulders. I dont get why people think THAT

TheReverend
09-01-2009, 03:45 PM
I hope McD learns from his mistakes and keeps his intensity and love of the game up and going. I think he could be and will be a great coach but this season will be his hardest test ever.

Even if the Broncos go 4-12 I doubt he'll get fired. He needs at least one more year before Bowlen makes another radical change to replace him.

If the team shows emprovement with each and every game, then Bowlen will keep the kid around...

I dunno man. If he cuts our win total in half, AND gave away our first rounder so we get no compensation for being a poor team, I can't see any justification for him keeping his job. None.

baja
09-01-2009, 03:48 PM
I think we will surprise a lot of "experts" this season.

lex
09-01-2009, 03:48 PM
I dunno man. If he cuts our win total in half, AND gave away our first rounder so we get no compensation for being a poor team, I can't see any justification for him keeping his job. None.

Add to that the possible realization that we need a better QB (ie like the one we traded).

McMastermind
09-01-2009, 03:51 PM
I talk to people who arent broncos fans that have said to me "i think you guys have the worst team in the NFL." When i ask why, they just shrug their shoulders. I dont get why people think THAT

Because all they see are headlines and ESPN talking points. And that's just the way I like it. Under the radar.

There is going to be a lot of value taking Denver as underdogs this season.

McMastermind
09-01-2009, 03:53 PM
I dunno man. If he cuts our win total in half, AND gave away our first rounder so we get no compensation for being a poor team, I can't see any justification for him keeping his job. None.

Gave it away? ROFL!

NYBronco
09-01-2009, 03:55 PM
I was optimistic but now after watching the preseason I have a bad feeling about the direction this football team is going and wonder how they are going to land a QBOTF.

We may have him in Brandstater.

TheReverend
09-01-2009, 03:56 PM
Gave it away? ROFL!

Judging from his play thus far, yeah. Obviously it's very early into his career, but corner isn't exactly the hardest transition to make...

Ambiguous
09-01-2009, 03:56 PM
Because all they see are headlines and ESPN talking points. And that's just the way I like it. Under the radar.

There is going to be a lot of value taking Denver as underdogs this season.

Going into the preseason I agreed with you, but now there is a voice in the back of my head screaming "THEY ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE".

At least I've reserved myself to losing a lot of games this year, any wins will feel like a bonus. Last year sucked with such high expectations after the first couple of games.

Finger Roll
09-01-2009, 03:58 PM
I'm neither Optimistic or Pessimistic. I have know idea what to think about this teams future.

worm
09-01-2009, 03:59 PM
Silly biased choices.

If Josh has better than a 500 cumulative record after the next three years, I would be pleasantly surprised.

Finger Roll
09-01-2009, 03:59 PM
I do however think we will be very bad this year. maybe 4-12

CEH
09-01-2009, 04:09 PM
I don't know that this last game was "meaningless"
At least from a crowd perpective it was playoff atmoshpere so if the team can't get up for a game with that much hype I gotta think it translates over into the reg season.

With the CHI QB I think we would have had a puncher chance in every game but with Orton I can't say that. Not from what I've seen in practice and games so far

Being a believer that the NFL is a QB-centric league I think we took a step back so I have to select option B

Old Dude
09-01-2009, 04:11 PM
Short term, I'm not too thrilled.

1. Orton clearly doesn't have the system down yet. Neither did Simms. Now they are both hurt and won't be getting much-needed reps for awhile. That leaves us with a rookie who got even fewer reps than most rookies in most camps because so much time was taken with the other two. We can't afford these kinds of delays in development when a new system is being introduced.

2. Ditto for Moreno. Missing what amounts to the entire preseason is going to put him behind as well. As if that wasn't bad enough, we've had other RBs chewed up with injuries: Torain and now maybe Jordan. All I can say is "not this again."

3. The Marshall fiasco. I don't blame anyone except Marshall himself, but it sure doesn't help. And now Gaffney is hurt.

4. Prater had an awful end to the season last year No one was brought in to challenge him. And while his preseason has been okay, he's had some very bad days in camp. He scares me.

5. The Kuper injury sucks. I can't see him coming back before week two and even if he does, he's going to favor that ankle.

6. All things considered, this offense has looked disorganized and underwhelming through most of the preseason. There have been a couple of nice series. But that won't be enough. It's a work in progress and needs a lot more work.

7. Three games and still no takeaways for the D.

8. Dawkins is a great player, but I'm worried whether he can stay healthy.

9. Ayers is obviously going to take awhile to learn his position. That's no surprise, and I don't expect much out of him at this point, but it also contributes to a slow start. Alphonso Smith has been burned at least once. I think he'll be good, but he's also learning. It's a frigging young team and they are going to take some lumps.

Other than Baker, who has shown flashes, I haven't seen anyone really apply pressure on the interior line. And Baker isn't ready to start.

Lots and lots of work to be done, and we're about out of time.

Long term, I'm more optimistic: an excellent O-Line, an exciting rookie RB, a pretty good fleeet of receivers (and even better if Marshall gets his act together - - which I doubt), smarter use of Dumervil, what could be an outstanding secondary, and a front 7 who can't possibly be worse than what we fielded last year. But it will boil down to whether Orton or one of the other QBs can be competent in this system. And that I don't know. Doesn't look good so far.

footstepsfrom#27
09-01-2009, 04:14 PM
I'm sick of polls, especially when they contain loaded language like "it won't recover" meant to fix the results in order to generate a new round of hysteria toward the perceived traitors.

errand
09-01-2009, 04:18 PM
Popps just loves McDaniels no matter what to such an extent that he has said he would find a 4-12 season blissful since he believes in McDaniels so much that he could kiss him.

To be honest, you're the only poster on here who acts like he will rejoice should we finish 4-12.....mainly so you can claim vindication.

lex
09-01-2009, 04:19 PM
To be honest, you're the only poster on here who acts like he will rejoice should we finish 4-12.....mainly so you can claim vindication.

I expect a 10 win season. Ive said this numerous times.

errand
09-01-2009, 04:21 PM
I think we will surprise a lot of "experts" this season.

I agree.

Meck77
09-01-2009, 04:22 PM
It all depends on your time frame. Pat isn't afraid of change or even failure. That is the sign of a great leader IMO. So we may struggle for a season or two. Is that a reason to be miserable, negative POS on a messageboard? oops;D

The sun will continue to rise in Denver Colorado.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-01-2009, 04:24 PM
No option for "I'm just ready for the freakin' season to start and for all the BS speculation to end"?

Taco John
09-01-2009, 04:24 PM
Given the state of this division right now, I don't see any reason why optimism is out of the question. Given the state of the roster, I don't see any reason why pessimism is out of the question.

It's really a mixed bag for me right now. I don't know how anyone could be far in either direction, unless, of course, your expectations are that we're going to win a playoff game this year - at which point, I can see why pessimism would be your order of the day. If your measure of success is an 8-8 season, then obviously optimism to reach that goal is the order of the day.

So Optimism or Pessimism isn't really the question for me. The question to me is where the bar is set for a successful season. From what I can tell, it's all over the map with the fan base. Some are demanding playoffs right now. Others are happy with 4-12 so long as the four wins come at the end of the season (ie. so long as we finish strong).

Myself, I think the reality of our situation is that we're in for a long season - which will be made longer for the fact that there is no consensus right now among the fans on what constitutes a successful season.

Which leads me back to our weak division. Ultimately, I believe that we're going to be able to compete for the division title. I personally think that it would have practically been in the bag if we had maintained continuity from last season - but despite the fact that I'm unhappy with Bowlen's decision and handling of this offseason, and despite the fact that I disagree with some of the moves that Josh has made this offseason, I feel like we're still in position to compete for the title in this weak division. That makes me optimistic.

If we can't compete this year in this division, however... Wow. Pat is going to have his hands full. There should be no excuses for finishing behind either the Raider or the Chiefs - I think everyone can agree with that.

Ambiguous
09-01-2009, 04:24 PM
It all depends on your time frame. Pat isn't afraid of change or even failure. That is the sign of a great leader IMO. So we may struggle for a season or two. Is that a reason to be miserable, negative POS on a messageboard? oops;D

The sun will continue to rise in Denver Colorado.

The meltdowns this year are going to be epic.

gyldenlove
09-01-2009, 04:28 PM
I don't really see the optimistic option in your poll.

Option A: we are going to suck short term but it will turn around.

Option B: we are going to suck for ever.

How about an option C: We will be fine and will win more games than we lose.

errand
09-01-2009, 04:29 PM
7. Three games and still no takeaways for the D.



This is more of a concern for me than the offense....Orton will eventually get a firmer grasp of the offense as will our OL and the rest. Moreno will eventually get on the field and he's too talented to not make plays.

Practically everyone has been focused on the Orton/McDaniels/Cutler/Marshall sagas...when the real story is how good is the defense gonna be.

jhns
09-01-2009, 04:32 PM
I voted B but I don't think we will never recover. I think we will recover nicely when we get a front office that knows how to run a team. You know, instead of a head coach that has never even been a head coach before but was given our teams head coach responsibilities (which are far more than regular coaches, duh).

I do think the Cutler thing and trading a top 10 pick will haunt this team for a while. It will be hard on even the optimistic fans after they see how everything plays out.

BroncoBuff
09-01-2009, 04:33 PM
Silly biased choices.

If Josh has better than a 500 cumulative record after the next three years, I would be pleasantly surprised.

No no ... this is an excellent thread.

errand
09-01-2009, 04:34 PM
I expect a 10 win season. Ive said this numerous times.

Of course you do....because if it doesn't happen it gives you another reason to bitch.

You're transparent dude...people see thru you.

Trust me, you'll silently rejoice at every bad Orton pass, and every loss.

CEH
09-01-2009, 04:34 PM
Jeb Putizer who was released today so he may be a little bitter was asked
"Is this team going in the right direction"

Pauses and kinda laughs and says it going to take alot to turn the organization around and it has to start in that lockerroom and right now it has a long ways to go

So I guess Jeb is picking option B as well

http://www.fm1043thefan.com/channels/audioOnDemand/Story.aspx?ID=1135331

Ambiguous
09-01-2009, 04:38 PM
I don't really see the optimistic option in your poll.

Option A: we are going to suck short term but it will turn around.

Option B: we are going to suck for ever.

How about an option C: We will be fine and will win more games than we lose.

lol

Chris
09-01-2009, 04:40 PM
I think the negative guys make a point of being very vocal so they're heard. From the sounds of the stadium the other night, most people aren't pessimistic.

lex
09-01-2009, 04:46 PM
Of course you do....because if it doesn't happen it gives you another reason to b****.

You're transparent dude...people see thru you.

Trust me, you'll silently rejoice at every bad Orton pass, and every loss.


Yeah, Ill be disappointed if they dont win 10 games. Im not sure why you think thats a tightly guarded secret and that you should get a cookie.

lex
09-01-2009, 04:47 PM
I think the negative guys make a point of being very vocal so they're heard. From the sounds of the stadium the other night, most people aren't pessimistic.

From the sounds of the stadium, most people are pissed. Sunday, it was aimed at Cutler but Cutler wont be there the rest of the way to shield McDaniels/Orton from the boos.

chaz
09-01-2009, 04:48 PM
I'm optimistic in the long-term, but this season is going to be ROUGH

s0phr0syne
09-01-2009, 04:48 PM
I can only vote the way that will make Poppsguy96 feel like their righteous indignation is justified.

TheReverend
09-01-2009, 04:49 PM
Jeb Putizer who was released today so he may be a little bitter was asked
"Is this team going in the right direction"

Pauses and kinda laughs and says it going to take alot to turn the organization around and it has to start in that lockerroom and right now it has a long ways to go

So I guess Jeb is picking option B as well

http://www.fm1043thefan.com/channels/audioOnDemand/Story.aspx?ID=1135331

Just listened to it. Sounds like lockerroom guys getting frustrated. Hopefully he's just upset from being cut and that that's not the case. Probably the last thing the football team needs right now.

hambone13
09-01-2009, 04:52 PM
I'm sick of polls, especially when they contain loaded language like "it won't recover" meant to fix the results in order to generate a new round of hysteria toward the perceived traitors.

I couldn't agree more considering the author of the thread.

loborugger
09-01-2009, 04:54 PM
Recover from in the short term or the long term. One assumes that even if we were to put together a string of 3 0-16 seasons, we would eventually have a winning season.

So, since neither poll option covers my take, I will just give it. Still a fan, but not expecting much for a couple of years.

hambone13
09-01-2009, 04:54 PM
It all depends on your time frame. Pat isn't afraid of change or even failure. That is the sign of a great leader IMO. So we may struggle for a season or two. Is that a reason to be miserable, negative POS on a messageboard? oops;D

The sun will continue to rise in Denver Colorado.

At what point during this off season has Pat shown he's a great leader?

Finger Roll
09-01-2009, 04:54 PM
Jeb Putizer who was released today so he may be a little bitter was asked
"Is this team going in the right direction"

Pauses and kinda laughs and says it going to take alot to turn the organization around and it has to start in that lockerroom and right now it has a long ways to go

So I guess Jeb is picking option B as well

http://www.fm1043thefan.com/channels/audioOnDemand/Story.aspx?ID=1135331

yeah great idea. Ask a guy who just got released today by the team about the direction it's headed in.

TheReverend
09-01-2009, 04:56 PM
yeah great idea. Ask a guy who just got released today by the team about the direction it's headed in.

That's a "I didn't bother listening to it"

He's actually very tactful and even prefaces statements with "Not to burn any bridges"

s0phr0syne
09-01-2009, 04:59 PM
Jesus, I'm listening to the interview right now...can't believe that they had him on right after the cut. What an emotionally drained state to be in. Don't know why he agreed to the interview, but I feel quite bad for Jeb.

He's a good player, but redundant here right now. Don't know why a teams like Philly or Cinci would not be interested in him

hambone13
09-01-2009, 05:00 PM
I don't really see the optimistic option in your poll.

Option A: we are going to suck short term but it will turn around.

Option B: we are going to suck for ever.

How about an option C: We will be fine and will win more games than we lose.

How about Option D referencing option C as a ridiculous possibility. Although it would be nice, I find it very difficult to believe we can have a winning record this season....

SouthStndJunkie
09-01-2009, 05:02 PM
This franchise has made mistakes it won't recover from, and it's downhill from here.

It can recover from them eventually....but it is going to take a while and I don't think it will be with McDaniels.

Popcorn Sutton
09-01-2009, 05:03 PM
I dunno man. If he cuts our win total in half, AND gave away our first rounder so we get no compensation for being a poor team, I can't see any justification for him keeping his job. None.

The only problem with this statement is that Bowlen was most likely complicit in this transaction.

BroncoBuff
09-01-2009, 05:05 PM
I'm optimistic in the long-term, but this season is going to be ROUGH

Bingo :thumbsup:

cutthemdown
09-01-2009, 05:05 PM
The thing with Rbs is they can get going with very little camp. Running the ball is easy for them, its the pass protection that is lacking. Broncos oline very good and so is the TE blocking so we can work Moreno is as a playmaker and wait for him to get all the pickups down.

For sure though hes way behind and it slows him down.

Still though I love him in keeper fantasy drafts

BroncoBuff
09-01-2009, 05:09 PM
I can only vote the way that will make Poppsguy96 feel like their righteous indignation is justified.

Hahaha ... the poll is so intellectually flawed, like most of Poppsguy96's polls.

"We'll NEVER recover" is just not a viable choice, anybody with a marginally effective left brain would know that.

ScottXray
09-01-2009, 05:09 PM
I am in the first group. Overall it looks like a rough year or two coming....
but the TEAM is getting back to being just that ....a TEAM.

I'm Not sure I like what has happened in Pre-season as there hasn't been much of anything to be optimistic about. McD, IF he is keeping the playbook closed and not showing anything, is going to learn something Shanny learned in the JAX game in 97 playoffs.

You can't turn it on in real game situations if you haven't been practicing and playing that way ALL the time.

I am concerned about the lack of downfield options in the pass game, and now our two best QB options are injured. Hopefully, Orton is capable of going downfield, in fact even capable of playing in the opener.

And the injury bug (minor injuries mostly, but still injuries) seems to still be biting us. Couple that with our mostly ineffective run game (I know...Moreno) , Our O-line not opening holes, and the defenses playing 8 up in the box , has made our first string mostly stall.
The penalties in the last game killed any momentum we had .

Anyway there are a lot of problems that need fixing, and we only have 2 weeks before it is for real. Now Brandstater is going to start the last PS game.

We need to get a fast start if we have any hope of going 8-8 or better.

So assuming we don't get early wins 5-11 is a real possibility.

Overall I am still positive that the team is going in the right direction. But it is going to be really ugly in here and on the field before it gets better..

Vegas_Bronco
09-01-2009, 05:09 PM
Pessimistic does describe my temperature. I'm not kidding either. I'm so mad I'm going to cloud up and rain knuckles. I'm seriously madder than a long-tail cat in a room full of rockin’ chairs. This offseason has been richer than 10 feet up a bulls azz. Honestly, I'm burnin’ like chicken at Baptist barbeque!!!

I'm ready to kick some azz with all four feet.

Popps
09-01-2009, 05:11 PM
That's a "I didn't bother listening to it"

He's actually very tactful and even prefaces statements with "Not to burn any bridges"

I don't doubt that like any workplace during difficult times, opinions may be divided to a point. Particularly when there's no real football to take guys' minds off of it.

The Brandon Marshall thing has to be a heavy (silly) weight hanging over the team. Now, add some injuries and there's no question that things may not be all bliss at Broncos central.

In my industry, we have a couple of major events a year that you could sort of say mimic the opening season. It's always incredibly stressful and things sometimes get heated. Tempers flare. Feelings get hurt. I imagine if you stuck a mic in my face around those times, I might not give the brightest outlook. But, once things kick in and we're through it, it's all worth it.

Give this team a little taste of real football, maybe a win or two... and their own identity and then see where we are. A big part of the frustration right now likely centers around guys just being sick of hearing about all of this. (Some have said as much.)

A locker room is just a workplace. It's never perfect. Let's see how things gel as we move into real football....

TheDave
09-01-2009, 05:18 PM
Short term, I'm not too thrilled.

1. Orton clearly doesn't have the system down yet. Neither did Simms. Now they are both hurt and won't be getting much-needed reps for awhile. That leaves us with a rookie who got even fewer reps than most rookies in most camps because so much time was taken with the other two. We can't afford these kinds of delays in development when a new system is being introduced.

2. Ditto for Moreno. Missing what amounts to the entire preseason is going to put him behind as well. As if that wasn't bad enough, we've had other RBs chewed up with injuries: Torain and now maybe Jordan. All I can say is "not this again."

3. The Marshall fiasco. I don't blame anyone except Marshall himself, but it sure doesn't help. And now Gaffney is hurt.

4. Prater had an awful end to the season last year No one was brought in to challenge him. And while his preseason has been okay, he's had some very bad days in camp. He scares me.

5. The Kuper injury sucks. I can't see him coming back before week two and even if he does, he's going to favor that ankle.

6. All things considered, this offense has looked disorganized and underwhelming through most of the preseason. There have been a couple of nice series. But that won't be enough. It's a work in progress and needs a lot more work.

7. Three games and still no takeaways for the D.

8. Dawkins is a great player, but I'm worried whether he can stay healthy.

9. Ayers is obviously going to take awhile to learn his position. That's no surprise, and I don't expect much out of him at this point, but it also contributes to a slow start. Alphonso Smith has been burned at least once. I think he'll be good, but he's also learning. It's a frigging young team and they are going to take some lumps.

Other than Baker, who has shown flashes, I haven't seen anyone really apply pressure on the interior line. And Baker isn't ready to start.

Lots and lots of work to be done, and we're about out of time.

Long term, I'm more optimistic: an excellent O-Line, an exciting rookie RB, a pretty good fleeet of receivers (and even better if Marshall gets his act together - - which I doubt), smarter use of Dumervil, what could be an outstanding secondary, and a front 7 who can't possibly be worse than what we fielded last year. But it will boil down to whether Orton or one of the other QBs can be competent in this system. And that I don't know. Doesn't look good so far.

Couldn't of said it better myself...

Well actually I would of added the phrase what a ****ing Mess... ;D

R8R H8R
09-01-2009, 05:21 PM
I talk to people who arent broncos fans that have said to me "i think you guys have the worst team in the NFL." When i ask why, they just shrug their shoulders. I dont get why people think THAT


I said that about the Atlanta Falcons last year; a lot of people probably did. Hey, stranger things have happened.

Popps
09-01-2009, 05:33 PM
I said that about the Atlanta Falcons last year; a lot of people probably did. Hey, stranger things have happened.

Dolphins had a nice rebound year, too.

Crazier things definitely have happened... many, many times. I don't expect playoffs, but my gut feeling is that this team will come out stronger for all of this, and head in the right direction.

BroncoBuff
09-01-2009, 06:50 PM
Short term, I'm not too thrilled.

1. Orton clearly doesn't have the system down yet. Neither did Simms.

Can't agree with you there pal ... Simms was damn good against San Francisco:


http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5189/78929405.png


In his four possessions against the 49ers, we scored THREE times. And on the fourth, we drove 30 yards, until McKinley dropped an easy 1st down catch.

Plus, Simms scrambled incredibly well, really incredible - bought tons of extra time.

At what point does he get some credit here?

I guess the claim there'd be an "open competition" was just talk.

McMastermind
09-01-2009, 06:58 PM
At what point during this off season has Pat shown he's a great leader?

12/31/08

"After giving this careful consideration, I have concluded that a change in our football operations is in the best interests of the Denver Broncos,"

listopencil
09-01-2009, 07:01 PM
Realistic.


This is not an either/or situation.

frerottenextelway
09-01-2009, 07:11 PM
I strongly doubt we'll win as many games as last year, so downhill gets my vote.

DBroncos4life
09-01-2009, 07:15 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=83750

Threads like this just get me pumped for the future.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=83736

This one doesn't help much either.

R8R H8R
09-01-2009, 07:27 PM
Dolphins had a nice rebound year, too.

Crazier things definitely have happened... many, many times. I don't expect playoffs, but my gut feeling is that this team will come out stronger for all of this, and head in the right direction.

Hey Popps, would you compare Orton to Pennington? Seems to be a lot of similarities. Smart, competitive, not-flashy, average to below average arm?

My point being that Pennington is not by any stretch of the imagination a franchise QB, but the Dolphins turned thier season around with him. They have a better defense to work with, but we have a better offense.

If it worked for them, maybe it'll work for us. BTW, I don't know how thier pre-season went last year, but I'd be interested what thier fans thought when Parcells acquired Penninton.

oubronco
09-01-2009, 08:06 PM
I'm optimistic and then reality sets in

oubronco
09-01-2009, 08:07 PM
Hey Popps, would you compare Orton to Pennington? Seems to be a lot of similarities. Smart, competitive, not-flashy, average to below average arm?

My point being that Pennington is not by any stretch of the imagination a franchise QB, but the Dolphins turned thier season around with him. They have a better defense to work with, but we have a better offense.

If it worked for them, maybe it'll work for us. BTW, I don't know how thier pre-season went last year, but I'd be interested what thier fans thought when Parcells acquired Penninton.

?

oubronco
09-01-2009, 08:08 PM
the wildcat won them a few games last year wasn't all Pennington

Circle Orange
09-01-2009, 08:17 PM
I STAND FIRMLY IN THE MIDDLE. :thought:

BroncoBuff
09-01-2009, 08:21 PM
My point being that Pennington is not by any stretch of the imagination a franchise QB,

Disagree ... I love that guy.

Hogan11
09-01-2009, 08:22 PM
http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a610/a610_thumb.jpg

We're doomed.

BroncoBuff
09-01-2009, 08:24 PM
the wildcat won them a few games last year wasn't all Pennington

I would trade Orton for Pennington so fast, there'd be smoke coming off the phone ;D

Drunk Monkey
09-01-2009, 08:25 PM
I sincerely think something good or bad is going to happen.....eventually.............probably

R8R H8R
09-01-2009, 08:35 PM
Disagree ... I love that guy.

You may love him, but he is not a franchise QB. He is serviceable, doesn't make too many mistakes, manages the game. His arm will never be mistaken for Cutlers, though.

I just thought there was a similarity between him and Orton.

BroncoBuff
09-01-2009, 08:36 PM
I just thought there was a similarity between him and Orton.

I would major love him for this offense.

hambone13
09-01-2009, 08:38 PM
12/31/08

"After giving this careful consideration, I have concluded that a change in our football operations is in the best interests of the Denver Broncos,"

Great statement, horrible execution post the statement....but he won't remember.

R8R H8R
09-01-2009, 08:40 PM
?

I meant that we have better overall offensive weapons to work with than the Dolphins did last year at this time.

Vegas_Bronco
09-01-2009, 11:26 PM
http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a610/a610_thumb.jpg

We're doomed.

That is a WELL HUNG horse.

Popps
09-02-2009, 12:31 AM
Hey Popps, would you compare Orton to Pennington? Seems to be a lot of similarities. Smart, competitive, not-flashy, average to below average arm?

In those ways, yea. CP is a bit more of a vocal leader on the field. But, their teammates seem to like playing for both of them. I think both seem to have good intangibles.

I just need to see more of Orton. I realize people want to put a stake in the guy after a few preseason games, but he's shown flashes of being a quality QB in the past, and I'm just not one to believe you can make definitive statements about subjects with very little evidence.

I don't think we've seen him play enough... I don't think he's fully comfortable with the system and I think we need all of our pieces in place to know what he can do.

Despite a few bad throws and a little bad luck, he's moved the offense fairly well. Pretty nice comp % and rating in the past two games.

Yes, he's physically limited to an extent... but I'm personally not going to try to make a definitive judgement without more evidence.

footstepsfrom#27
09-02-2009, 12:59 AM
Plus, Simms scrambled incredibly well, really incredible - bought tons of extra time.

At what point does he get some credit here?

I guess the claim there'd be an "open competition" was just talk.
When McD names him the starter would be my guess.

Broncos4tw
09-02-2009, 01:26 AM
We are not going to win a SB until Orton is replaced. Just not happening. Smoke those pipes if you want, but Orton has the same skillset as another QB that got into the SB.. with the #1 defense in the league.. and was cut at the end of that season.

Josh is staking his coaching career on the Patriots system. He truly feels it's 100% system, not chemistry, players, veterans, or the OTHER coach. Well, we'll see if he is right. But imo, you need skill players. There is no magical system that makes your team unbeatable. You need other things, too. Things we don't have.

And if the preseason is any indicator, I'd say so far, the "system" isn't quite as effective under Josh, is it. We need to trade for or draft a QB next year. We won't really start rebuilding until we do. Why suffer 3 or 4 years under yet another mediocre QB that nets the same result?

Popps
09-02-2009, 01:31 AM
Actually, I probably shouldn't have said this week isn't meaningful, given Orton's injury status. In reality, this week becomes much more interesting now that we may have to rely on Brandstater in some capacity. Wish he was going up against a first-team defense, but it'll still be interesting to see what he does.

lex
09-02-2009, 01:34 AM
We are not going to win a SB until Orton is replaced. Just not happening. Smoke those pipes if you want, but Orton has the same skillset as another QB that got into the SB.. with the #1 defense in the league.. and was cut at the end of that season.

Josh is staking his coaching career on the Patriots system. He truly feels it's 100% system, not chemistry, players, veterans, or the OTHER coach. Well, we'll see if he is right. But imo, you need skill players. There is no magical system that makes your team unbeatable. You need other things, too. Things we don't have.

And if the preseason is any indicator, I'd say so far, the "system" isn't quite as effective under Josh, is it. We need to trade for or draft a QB next year. We won't really start rebuilding until we do. Why suffer 3 or 4 years under yet another mediocre QB that nets the same result?

Youre right. "The System" is capable of sucking of you call ****ty plays. If you can call plays in one system, you can call plays in another provided you have a working knowledge of that system. It requires that and knowledge of defensese. But this slavish devotion to his system speaks to ego and insecurity. Our system is/was better for running the ball. If you can run the ball anything close to what we once could, the rest is just living. Its really unfortunate that McDaniels is such a slave to "the system". It actually diminishes him as a coach. Shanahan was well versed in a lot of different systems going back to the wishbone at Oklahoma. He was a successful OC, using a lot of different systems. He also understood the value of balance. But having said that, we lost our way with the running game so Im really hopeful McDaniels does the running game justice. I have doubts though.

footstepsfrom#27
09-02-2009, 01:35 AM
http://www.sportsburn.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/483819567_28fca74f2f.jpg

colonelbeef
09-02-2009, 12:49 PM
McDaniels actually took the time to consider trading a pro bowl 25 year old QB for Matt Cassel. Thus, he has only proven to be a horrible evaluator of QB talent so far, and if he is stupid enough to make those kinds of errors the moment he walks in the door, I cannot trust his judgment until I actually see some type of improvement.

Being blindly optimistic, specifically when it flies in the face of all factual evidence to the contrary, is plainly and conspicuously moronic.