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Broncos4Life
09-01-2009, 09:02 AM
I pulled these off of http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=9286

Now I know this is preseason and offense and defense are pretty vanilla, but you have to love our special teams play so far. That 1 punt to Hester last week pissed me off, but even the most elite ST units will screw up every once in awhile. And its not like we have to worry about that dude this season.
Not every team has a Hester type player.

OFFENSE:

During Denver’s last two games, QB Kyle Orton has completed 30-of-42 (71.4%) passes for 278 yards with one touchdown and one interception (87.2 rating). He is fourth in the league in completion percentage (67.2%) and sixth in passing yards (367) this preseason.
Rookie WR Kenny McKinley, a fifth-round pick from the University of South Carolina, has caught two passes of at least 50 yards this preseason. He ranks fifth in the league in receiving yards (165) while placing ninth in the NFL in combined yards (274).
DEFENSE:

Against the Bears last week, the Broncos forced seven three-and-outs, including on all four Chicago possessions to open the second half.
ILB D.J. Williams leads Denver in tackles (16) and is one of three Broncos linebackers with at least 12 defensive stops this preseason.
Denver is eighth in the league in total defense, giving up an average of 294.3 yards per game.
SPECIAL TEAMS:

The Broncos lead the NFL in kickoff coverage (14.0 yds., 8-112) through three preseason games.
P Brett Kern is third in the league in gross punting average (47.5 yds.). Rookie P Britton Colquitt, a college free agent from the University of Tennessee, leads all NFL rookies in net punting average (40.3 yds.).

PRBronco
09-01-2009, 09:05 AM
The Broncos lead the NFL in kickoff coverage (14.0 yds., 8-112) through three preseason games.


Daaaaaaaaamn! That's new.

Tombstone RJ
09-01-2009, 09:06 AM
I pulled these off of http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=9286

Now I know this is preseason and offense and defense are pretty vanilla, but you have to love our special teams play so far. That 1 punt to Hester last week pissed me off, but even the most elite ST units will screw up every once in awhile. And its not like we have to worry about that dude this season.
Not every team has a Hester type player.

OFFENSE:

During Denver’s last two games, QB Kyle Orton has completed 30-of-42 (71.4%) passes for 278 yards with one touchdown and one interception (87.2 rating). He is fourth in the league in completion percentage (67.2%) and sixth in passing yards (367) this preseason.
Rookie WR Kenny McKinley, a fifth-round pick from the University of South Carolina, has caught two passes of at least 50 yards this preseason. He ranks fifth in the league in receiving yards (165) while placing ninth in the NFL in combined yards (274).
DEFENSE:

Against the Bears last week, the Broncos forced seven three-and-outs, including on all four Chicago possessions to open the second half.
ILB D.J. Williams leads Denver in tackles (16) and is one of three Broncos linebackers with at least 12 defensive stops this preseason.
Denver is eighth in the league in total defense, giving up an average of 294.3 yards per game.
SPECIAL TEAMS:

The Broncos lead the NFL in kickoff coverage (14.0 yds., 8-112) through three preseason games.
P Brett Kern is third in the league in gross punting average (47.5 yds.). Rookie P Britton Colquitt, a college free agent from the University of Tennessee, leads all NFL rookies in net punting average (40.3 yds.).

Encouraging stats. Flip side: it's only preseason.

Just as I'm not gonna hamstring Orton with preseason stats and win-loss record, I'm not gonna promote the team's good stuff with preseason stats.

But, I do think the team is headed in the right direction on defense. Offense is still a big question mark, but I do think a healthy Moreno will help things out.

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2009, 09:09 AM
Definitely a smart move by them to avoid including the week one stats in their analysis.

vancejohnson82
09-01-2009, 09:17 AM
Definitely a smart move by them to avoid including the week one stats in their analysis.

haha...i was thinking the same thing

RaiderH8r
09-01-2009, 09:20 AM
Definitely a smart move by them to avoid including the week one stats in their analysis.

That would have defeated the whole purpose of the cream puff stat piece.!Booya!

TheReverend
09-01-2009, 09:22 AM
Definitely a smart move by them to avoid including the week one stats in their analysis.

And smart to do stuff like this as well:

"Against the Bears last week, the Broncos forced seven three-and-outs, including on all four Chicago possessions to open the second half."

Good to know our starters can perform vs Caleb Hanie and we're willing to gloat about it....

worm
09-01-2009, 09:24 AM
Outside of what Kenny Petersen thinks on a variety of topics, one of my favorite things I have learned this off-season is that we can draw nothing encouraging from offensive stats if they don't result in points.

Broncos4Life
09-01-2009, 09:31 AM
Encouraging stats. Flip side: it's only preseason.

Just as I'm not gonna hamstring Orton with preseason stats and win-loss record, I'm not gonna promote the team's good stuff with preseason stats.

But, I do think the team is headed in the right direction on defense. Offense is still a big question mark, but I do think a healthy Moreno will help things out.

For offense and defense those stats dont carry much weight to me either. Dinkin' and dunkin' doesnt make me too confident along with no turnovers on defense. Our special teams play does make me breath easier though. Everytime we punted or kicked off the last few years had me holding my breath like when Plummer would throw from the pocket. It was just scarry.

I should have titled this thread,"Special teams stat eases pain". As the propaganda from the team site makes me sick.

Lolad
09-01-2009, 09:35 AM
With Orton playing at least a half in all games I can see why he would be high in yardage.

The thing about STATS they can always be manipulated

Peoples Champ
09-01-2009, 09:51 AM
The thing about STATS they can always be manipulated


Thats for real. I love the temperature ones. They move it up and down a couple degrees to make the player look undefeated or close to it.


Brett Farve is 30-2 when its below 31 degrees. But he could be 15-10 when its below 25 degrees, or below 40 degrees.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-01-2009, 09:51 AM
Outside of what Kenny Petersen thinks on a variety of topics, one of my favorite things I have learned this off-season is that we can draw nothing encouraging from offensive stats if they don't result in points.

Funny. Many on this board claim we had a top 5 offense last season though we were only 16th in pts.

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2009, 09:55 AM
Brett Farve is 30-2 when its below 31 degrees. But he could be 15-10 when its below 25 degrees

$100 and two lower level seats to any Broncos game if anyone here can demonstrate how both these statements can be possible. ;D

Popps
09-01-2009, 09:57 AM
This should be fun.

Interesting thread, but the Mopey Mafia isn't going to have it. Sit back and watch the trashing begin...

thumpc
09-01-2009, 09:59 AM
Rookie WR Kenny McKinley, a fifth-round pick from the University of South Carolina, has caught two passes of at least 50 yards this preseason. He ranks fifth in the league in receiving yards (165) while placing ninth in the NFL in combined yards (274).

None of them thrown by Orton.

TheDave
09-01-2009, 10:02 AM
This should be fun.

Interesting thread, but the Mopey Mafia isn't going to have it. Sit back and watch the trashing begin...

By all means... show us how these stats paint an accurate picture of our team.

jhns
09-01-2009, 10:08 AM
Funny. Many on this board claim we had a top 5 offense last season though we were only 16th in pts.

That is because 16th in points is a team stat, not an offensive stat. Good try though. You have to do better than that if you want to discredit last years offense.

Peoples Champ
09-01-2009, 10:11 AM
$100 and two lower level seats to any Broncos game if anyone here can demonstrate how both these statements can be possible. ;D



I just made up numbers


Baseball always uses crazy stats too. He is batting .440 with 2 men on during night games in december (i made that up too, please dont say there is no baseball in december)

Popcorn Sutton
09-01-2009, 10:18 AM
That is because 16th in points is a team stat, not an offensive stat. Good try though. You have to do better than that if you want to discredit last years offense.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

So what, the Defense should have had more INT's for a touchdown? hmmm...

Last I checked the offense scores points and the defense tries to stop the other team from scoring points.

How is the lack of scoring on anything other than the offense?

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2009, 10:22 AM
How is the lack of scoring on anything other than the offense?

Special teams and turnovers can make a HUGE difference in offensive scoring. Do you agree that it's easier to put up points when you start drives at the 35-40 on average as opposed to the 10-15 yard line on average? How many times did Denver start drives in the opposition's territory last year?

Popcorn Sutton
09-01-2009, 10:25 AM
Special teams and turnovers can make a HUGE difference in offensive scoring. Do you agree that it's easier to put up points when you start drives at the 35-40 on average as opposed to the 10-15 yard line on average? How many times did Denver start drives in the opposition's territory last year?

Absolutely but let's be honest here man... Don't you think being 32 out of 32 in turnover differential had a little more to do with it?

jhns
09-01-2009, 10:27 AM
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

So what, the Defense should have had more INT's for a touchdown? hmmm...

Last I checked the offense scores points and the defense tries to stop the other team from scoring points.

How is the lack of scoring on anything other than the offense?

When you look at 16th in scoring you are putting the blame for bad defense and special teams on the offense. That rank includes defensive and special teams scores. Go look at how they come up with the totals. Yes, they look far different if you only look at offensive scores.

So explain to me why it is the offenses fault that their defense and special teams didn't help as much as other teams?

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2009, 10:28 AM
Absolutely but let's be honest here man... Don't you think being 32 out of 32 in turnover differential had a little more to do with it?

Read my first sentence again. I clearly mentioned turnovers.

jhns
09-01-2009, 10:30 AM
Absolutely but let's be honest here man... Don't you think being 32 out of 32 in turnover differential had a little more to do with it?

Which the defense is at fault for. They were one turnover away from having the fewest ever in NFL history. The offense was not on some turnover record pace.

BroncoBuff
09-01-2009, 10:31 AM
This should be fun.

Interesting thread, but the Mopey Mafia isn't going to have it. Sit back and watch the trashing begin...

Good post.

Popcorn Sutton
09-01-2009, 10:31 AM
Read my first sentence again. I clearly mentioned turnovers.

Yes you did. My point is still the same. The offense last year could drive the ball up and down the field but they couldn't score and had an affinity for turnovers in the red zone.

jhns
09-01-2009, 10:34 AM
Yes you did. My point is still the same. The offense last year could drive the ball up and down the field but they couldn't score and had an affinity for turnovers in the red zone.

That is completely inaccurate. I'm not sure where you could even get that.

BroncoBuff
09-01-2009, 10:35 AM
Definitely a smart move by them to avoid including the week one stats in their analysis.

Yes, and omitting Simms, too. His stats are worlds better than Orton.

And I keep telling everybody that McKinley is s stone cold lock to make the 53 .... I'm surprised so many people are taking about him as a bubble guy. That's just not the case.

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2009, 10:37 AM
Yes you did. My point is still the same. The offense last year could drive the ball up and down the field but they couldn't score and had an affinity for turnovers in the red zone.

jhns responded to this correctly.

If you are analyzing turnover differential, you have to look at both sides.

Did the offense turn the ball over on occasion? Yes.
Were they in danger of breaking any all time turnover records or even leading the league that one year? Nope.

Did the defense go entire games without forcing turnovers? Yes.
Were they close to setting an all time record for fewest turnovers forced all time? Yes.

Clearly, the offense wasn't perfect. But there's no way they were more to blame for the high negative turnover differential than the defense. No way in hell.

BroncoBuff
09-01-2009, 10:37 AM
That is completely inaccurate. I'm not sure where you could even get that.

Just the fumble at the goalline against the Raiders .... worst play all year.

Popcorn Sutton
09-01-2009, 10:38 AM
Which the defense is at fault for. They were one turnover away from having the fewest ever in NFL history. The offense was not on some turnover record pace.

Touche.

The Broncos were still in the bottom third of the league in offensive turnovers at 30. San Fran lead the league with 35.

Tombstone RJ
09-01-2009, 10:41 AM
jhns responded to this correctly.

If you are analyzing turnover differential, you have to look at both sides.

Did the offense turn the ball over on occasion? Yes.
Were they in danger of breaking any all time turnover records or even leading the league that one year? Nope.

Did the defense go entire games without forcing turnovers? Yes.
Were they close to setting an all time record for fewest turnovers forced all time? Yes.

Clearly, the offense wasn't perfect. But there's no way they were more to blame for the high negative turnover differential than the defense. No way in hell.

As bad as the defense was, it did play well at times. However, it seemed to me that the offense could never capitalize on the defenses good play.

The overall team was frustrating to watch during the losses because when the defense played well (good enough for the team to win) the offense struggled. When the offense played well (scored points) the defense played like crap.

The "team" never put it all together. Couple that with bad special teams and I think it's safe to say the team was not very good, even with an explosive offense.

jhns
09-01-2009, 10:47 AM
Touche.

The Broncos were still in the bottom third of the league in offensive turnovers at 30. San Fran lead the league with 35.

I agree turnovers where a problem. Let's not try fooling ourselves into thinking this is justification for what happened this offseason.

Let's analyze a bit further.

This offense was top 10 in scoring OFFENSE. They drove further than any other offense on a per drive basis. They had the absolute worst starting field position in the league, ranked 32. They were forced to punt less than any team in the league on a per drive basis. Our defense faced the second fewest drives in the league.

Oh and the scoring stats all include our ****ty kicker. Again, not the offenses fault.

All of that was done with a large number of injuries and an offense made up of rookie-third year guys.

Yes they had some problems that needed fixed. I get that. Therer is nothing there to suggest experience and a durable running back doesn't fix everything. In fact, I can guarantee that is all we needed on offense. I only touched a small portion of the stats that suggest our offense was amazing and just had no help, in fact, they had the rest of the team working against them.

Rashomon
09-01-2009, 11:49 AM
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

So what, the Defense should have had more INT's for a touchdown? hmmm...

Last I checked the offense scores points and the defense tries to stop the other team from scoring points.

How is the lack of scoring on anything other than the offense?

Chicago was 14th in scoring last year at 375 pts, to Denver at 16th with 370 points. Included in Chicago's total was 7 return/defensive touchdowns, compared to 2 for Denver. You add those additional non-offensive touchdowns to Denver's total, they are in the Top 10 in scoring. That also doesn't take into account that Denver's FG% was one of the worst in the league. They may have tried a large number of long kicks (I didn't check), but the fact remains that they missed a lot more attempts than other teams. This all adds up to a lower point total for a team.