PDA

View Full Version : Why do you trust Josh McDaniels to turn us into a winning football club?


KevinJames
08-31-2009, 05:10 PM
People ask me this question all the time, they always point to the Cutler thing and ask how I can trust him and I answer with this.

I trust him because he came in and didn't just want to fix the defense and ignore everything else he came in and addressed all of our needs and especially our HUGE problems on offense and made a emphasis on becoming a real TEAM and playing together and focused on turning the team into a hard nosed tough football team, that plays good situational football. Thats why I trust him, because I was tired of watching a soft football team take the field every week and getting blown out by terrible teams like the lions basically playing down to our competition and watching my favorite football team start 7-3 or 5-2 every year and finish 8-8 or less and fail to make the playoffs since the 2005 season....thats why. This team needed a face lift and we got it even we don't start winning this season positive change is in effect.:notworthy

how about you guys?

BroncoDoug
08-31-2009, 05:12 PM
People ask me this question all the time, they always point to the Cutler thing and ask how I can trust him and I answer with this.

I trust him because he came in and didn't just want to fix the defense and ignore everything else he came in and addressed all of our needs and especially our HUGE problems on offense and made a emphasis on becoming a real TEAM and playing together and focused on turning the team into a hard nosed tough football team, that plays good situational football. Thats why I trust him, because I was tired of watching a soft football team take the field every week and getting blown out by terrible teams like the lions basically playing down to our competition and watching my favorite football team start 7-3 or 5-2 every year and finish 8-8 or less and fail to make the playoffs since the 2005 season....thats why. This team needed a face lift and we got it even we don't start winning this season positive change is in effect.:notworthy

how about you guys?

I'm watching you on king of queens right now ;)

KevinJames
08-31-2009, 05:14 PM
I'm watching you on king of queens right now ;)

lol

I would like to request my name be changed to McKevinJames to support my head coach :afro:

Lev Vyvanse
08-31-2009, 05:15 PM
Because he’s experienced and comes from a great coaching tree.

joke

Gcver2ver3
08-31-2009, 05:17 PM
because i believe he'll hold players accountable...and he seems to be a motivator...and a bright offensive mind...

lex
08-31-2009, 05:19 PM
I dont trust him. I find him untrustworthy.

cutthemdown
08-31-2009, 05:19 PM
I like how he calls plays. People were bagging on his screens but its preseason. Not to mention the fact those screens work for the most part. The team just didn't execute properly. Too many penalties or Broncos would have scored on that first drive.

My faith in the kid comes from the fact he works really hard and has really good ideas for moving a football down the field. He's willing to adapt to the players he has and use all of there attributes.

I love his message of being more physical and bigger.

Chris
08-31-2009, 05:23 PM
Because I know with his ego he coaches like his life is on the line. Winning is everything to him. It has been from day one.

Because, believe it or not, he was the OC on a very creative offense for several years. I believe he's creative enough to make a lesser team win games it shouldn't.

Because he doesn't tolerated diva behaviour and wants PLAYERS first and foremost. He's almost done taking out the trash in this area.

Because he cares about all 3 phases and is very particular.

Because he clearly has the kind of **** YOU attitude this team needs since we're never a favourite of the media or, since Elway, a lot of fans. He runs the ship and he has the self belief to do it his way.

TDmvp
08-31-2009, 05:23 PM
IF he last 3 years I will be shocked and amazed ...
He looks Fing lost out there . He doesn't even know when to use and not use a time out yet for the love of god.

It was funny last night they mentioned Josh played QB in high school , yet no mention of the fact his daddy benched a better QB to let his son play the glamor position . Which he sucked at ...


Josh has always been a arrogant , silver spoon having punk from the time he lived here till now ... I expect nothing to change.

TheDave
08-31-2009, 05:25 PM
People ask me this question all the time, they always point to the Cutler thing and ask how I can trust him and I answer with this.

I trust him because he came in and didn't just want to fix the defense and ignore everything else he came in and addressed all of our needs and especially our HUGE problems on offense and made a emphasis on becoming a real TEAM and playing together and focused on turning the team into a hard nosed tough football team, that plays good situational football. Thats why I trust him, because I was tired of watching a soft football team take the field every week and getting blown out by terrible teams like the lions basically playing down to our competition and watching my favorite football team start 7-3 or 5-2 every year and finish 8-8 or less and fail to make the playoffs since the 2005 season....thats why. This team needed a face lift and we got it even we don't start winning this season positive change is in effect.:notworthy

how about you guys?

I've got to ask... What were the HUGE problems on offense?

KevinJames
08-31-2009, 05:26 PM
hmm I wonder what lex said, oh wait no I don't :rofl: but if I had to guess it was probably "McDaniels is the devil" or something along those lines? Oh well looks like ill never find out.

I see this ignore feature working already.:thumbs:

KevinJames
08-31-2009, 05:27 PM
I've got to ask... What were the HUGE problems on offense?

Turnovers? Time of possession? Scoring in the red zone?

just a few that come to mind.

DBroncos4life
08-31-2009, 05:28 PM
Turnovers? Time of possession? Scoring in the red zone?

just a few that come to mind.

And from what you have seen they are all fixed now?

TheDave
08-31-2009, 05:29 PM
Turnovers? Time of possession? Scoring in the red zone?

just a few that come to mind.

How did he address them? Because those are all still HUGE problems.

errand
08-31-2009, 05:30 PM
IF he last 3 years I will be shocked and amazed ...
He looks Fing lost out there . He doesn't even know when to use and not use a time out yet for the love of god.

It was funny last night they mentioned Josh played QB in high school , yet no mention of the fact his daddy benched a better QB to let his son play the glamor position . Which he sucked at ...


Josh has always been a arrogant , silver spoon having punk from the time he lived here till now ... I expect nothing to change.

So you have proof that his dad benched a more talented Qb to play his own kid? and in who's opinion was this other kid more talented?

BTW if you think playing for a top notch coaching legend that is your father isn't a pressure cooker type situation...well, don't take my word for it. Ask anyone else who has done likewise.

Josh told Andrea last night that his goal was to get all the players headed in the right direction...meaning team above personal accomplishments. Brandon Marshall isn't buying into it, and as a result will not be playing this preseason...hopefully his "time out' and some internal pressure from team leaders will convince this highly talented but troubled WR get with the program.

KevinJames
08-31-2009, 05:33 PM
How did he address them? Because those are all still HUGE problems.

He is making an emphasis on this.

You can't expect it in the first 3 pre-season games.

at least he isn't ignoring this and continuing to stress that we need to do these things and each game we seem to get better at certain things but yeah problems still exist but its the third game in the pre-season in a new system.

And from what you have seen they are all fixed now?

did I say they were fixed?

no I said he is trying to change this team and fix the problems we had last year.

I never said they are completely fixed.

DBroncos4life
08-31-2009, 05:37 PM
I've watched every game and I have recorded every game. Its a small sample but I am a tad worried that if we get into a third and long we won't be able to make it up. With the league calling OL down field more then ever we might just be in a world of hurt.

TheDave
08-31-2009, 05:38 PM
He is making an emphasis on this.

You can't expect it in the first 3 pre-season games.

at least he isn't ignoring this and continuing to stress that we need to do these things and each game we seem to get better at certain things but yeah problems still exist but its the third game in the pre-season in a new system.

Come on... EVERY coach makes Turnovers, T.O.P., and Red Zone an emphasis.

Shanny emphasized this, So did Philips, So Did Reeves... So do the other 31 head coaches in the NFL.

Those 3 terms are like the ABC's of coaching clichés.

lifeafter elway
08-31-2009, 05:40 PM
I don't trust him. Cutler drama aside, he has done nothing to earn my trust. And, for the most part - the decisions he makes run contrary to what I believe will help us win.

BUT, I hope I am wrong. I accept there is a high probability that he knows more than I do about football. I am not overly concerned with the win/loss record this year. But, right now we look foolish at times.

Popps
08-31-2009, 05:42 PM
He is making an emphasis on this.

You can't expect it in the first 3 pre-season games.

at least he isn't ignoring this and continuing to stress that we need to do these things and each game we seem to get better at certain things but yeah problems still exist but its the third game in the pre-season in a new system.



did I say they were fixed?

no I said he is trying to change this team and fix the problems we had last year.

I never said they are completely fixed.



"Trust" is a strong word, but I believe in what McDaniels is trying to do. Again, to me... the parallels between Shanny and him are hard to argue.

Besides some of the controversy, he comes from a similar mold... and I like his background, philosophy and approach. This reminds me very much of the mindset-change we saw when Shanahan came to town.

errand
08-31-2009, 05:43 PM
Read an article that states current Bronco Kenny Petersen, a former McKinley high teammate says he was a leader in the huddle during his high school career, and in the biggest game of his career vs. Massilon, McDaniels, who also was his team's PK, missed a game winning FG wide right ala Scott Norwood.

When asked how he felt being the guy who cost his team the win, he said (paraphrasing here) "God must have placed that burden on me because He knew I was strong enough to handle it"

The two teams met again in the playoffs and he hit current Broncos assistant to the head coach Mark Thewes with the game winning TD pass.

No mention of some alleged superior talent sitting the bench while all this was going on.

jhns
08-31-2009, 05:44 PM
Why has this country started this thing that all change is good change? That is so dumb. You have to make smart changes still. We have not changed for the better. You have to be kidding. McDaniel/Xander/this front office supporters will change their tune eventually. I just hope Bowlen does quickly. It shouldn't take long to see the results of this offseason for both us and the Bears.

KevinJames
08-31-2009, 05:47 PM
Come on... EVERY coach makes Turnovers, T.O.P., and Red Zone an emphasis.

Shanny emphasized this, So did Philips, So Did Reeves... So do the other 31 head coaches in the NFL.

Those 3 terms are like the ABC's of coaching clichés.

Shanny may have emphasized it but he didn't execute it when Cut was here he let Cutler have free range which put a poor defensive unit on the field more than they should be. With Shanny and Cutler our defense was never fresh and he always put our defense in bad situations in terms of field position.

thats just my take on it tho.

so far were in the top 10 this pre-season in time of possession that is a step in the right direction, now its time to focus on the turnovers and red zone production.

AbileneBroncoFan
08-31-2009, 05:51 PM
I trust him because he doesn't take **** from anyone, anytime, anywhere and he believes in the Lombardi mindset: if you're not first you're last; winning isn't everything it's the only thing; and winners never quit and quitters never win.

Jay Cutler wants to be bigger than the team, McDaniels says "**** you, go be bigger than the team in Chicago. We'll win without your candy ass."

Brandon Marshall wants to be a spoiled bitch and half ass his way through practice, McDaniels says, "**** you, see you in 2 weeks. We'll win without you."

It may be case where we have to take a step back to take 2 forward, but rest assured, the players in this league who are serious about winning have taken notice that the only acceptable thing in this organization now is winning. We are going to attract players who want to win in free agency, and incoming rookies are going to be taught that they are not anymore important than any of the other 50 players and that the only way they will have any success is if the team has success. That's how I view the last three years with Cutler and Marshall lighting it up. Sure they put up yards (not as many points as they should have though), but the bottom line is we did not win a single playoff game in that time, so those 3 seasons were failures, period. We no longer tolerate failure.

hambone13
08-31-2009, 05:51 PM
People ask me this question all the time, they always point to the Cutler thing and ask how I can trust him and I answer with this.

I trust him because he came in and didn't just want to fix the defense and ignore everything else he came in and addressed all of our needs and especially our HUGE problems on offense and made a emphasis on becoming a real TEAM and playing together and focused on turning the team into a hard nosed tough football team, that plays good situational football. Thats why I trust him, because I was tired of watching a soft football team take the field every week and getting blown out by terrible teams like the lions basically playing down to our competition and watching my favorite football team start 7-3 or 5-2 every year and finish 8-8 or less and fail to make the playoffs since the 2005 season....thats why. This team needed a face lift and we got it even we don't start winning this season positive change is in effect.:notworthy

how about you guys?

I trust that he has solid skills as an offensive coordinator and a strategist. I don't trust that he can run an NFL organization as a HC w/ heavy GM-esque responsibilities, or be a manager outside of football related activities.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-31-2009, 05:53 PM
I dont trust him. I find him untrustworthy.

Get out of here! Really? Why haven't you made your feelings known before on 10,000 other threads?

lex
08-31-2009, 05:53 PM
I trust him because he doesn't take **** from anyone, anytime, anywhere and he believes in the Lombardi mindset: if you're not first you're last; winning isn't everything it's the only thing; and winners never quit and quitters never win.

Jay Cutler wants to be bigger than the team, McDaniels says "**** you, go be bigger than the team in Chicago. We'll win without your candy ass."

Brandon Marshall wants to be a spoiled b**** and half ass his way through practice, McDaniels says, "**** you, see you in 2 weeks. We'll win without you."

It may be case where we have to take a step back to take 2 forward, but rest assured, the players in this league who are serious about winning have taken notice that the only acceptable thing in this organization now is winning. We are going to attract players who want to win in free agency, and incoming rookies are going to be taught that they are not anymore important than any of the other 50 players and that the only way they will have any success is if the team has success. That's how I view the last three years with Cutler and Marshall lighting it up. Sure they put up yards (not as many points as they should have though), but the bottom line is we did not win a single playoff game in that time, so those 3 seasons were failures, period. We no longer tolerate failure.

No, Joe Ellis mentioned that it was important to Josh to be the "face of the franchise" at his interview. When #6 jerseys are flying off the shelves, this presents an obstacle to that.

lex
08-31-2009, 05:54 PM
Get out of here! Really? Why haven't you made your feelings known before on 10,000 other threads?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/lexlucid/prod_14977.jpg

TDmvp
08-31-2009, 05:55 PM
So you have proof that his dad benched a more talented Qb to play his own kid? and in who's opinion was this other kid more talented?

BTW if you think playing for a top notch coaching legend that is your father isn't a pressure cooker type situation...well, don't take my word for it. Ask anyone else who has done likewise.
.

Well it was a big story in Ohio where i live , and there was calls for his father to be fired because of it ... The other kids was far better and older and was the starter from the year before which they had a great season.
next year under Josh , not so much ....

And sorry but you are a fool if you think playing for your father is pressure ... PLaying for your father as the coach is BS lame and should be not allowed ... As someone who played sports all his life and been on both sides . Fathers should not be allowed to coach a team with their own children on it ... It never ends well , and is never a fair set up ... PERIOD ... end of that topic .

and Sorry but as someone who had heard of Josh 10 years ago and long before he was a Pat , he is one of the very last people i would want coaching my fav team ...
He's never been a head coach of ANYTHING and from the looks of it he still isn't ....

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-31-2009, 05:55 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/lexlucid/prod_14977.jpg

Uh... Good one?

You should start a thread about it.

lex
08-31-2009, 05:56 PM
Uh... Good one?

You should start a thread about it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/lexlucid/golddust-2.jpg

TheDave
08-31-2009, 05:57 PM
Get out of here! Really? Why haven't you made your feelings known before on 10,000 other threads?

I soooo wish you guys would just put him on ignore.

enjolras
08-31-2009, 05:59 PM
I trust him because he fundamentally understands what Parcells, Belichick, and other successful coaches understand. Football is meant to be mean. It's meant to be tough. Most importantly: It's meant to be played as a team.

We're seeing the growing pains of a franchise that had lost its way as a team. Your seeing the selfish, 'me first' guys rant and rave because they know that this is no longer about them. It's about the team. Just like it has been in New England, Pittsburgh, and pretty much anywhere consistently good football has been played as of late. I think we're only now starting to appreciate how bad the Broncos had become. It's going to be a process, but I really do trust that McDaniels is the right man for the job.

He has pieces: Royal, Hillis, Clady, Kuper, Stokely (for whatever he has left), Dumervil, DJ Williams, and Bailey. From what I can tell these are all team players that know how to play tough football. He's going to build from this core, and this team is going to get better and better. Not only this season, but in the future as well.

It's not always about talent (I'd argue it rarely is). Passion and sheer will play a HUGE role in the success of your football team. McDaniels understands this, and the Broncos are going to be a dominant football team again because of it.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-31-2009, 05:59 PM
I soooo wish you guys would just put him on ignore.

lex
This message is hidden because lex is on your ignore list.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

jhns
08-31-2009, 06:01 PM
Shanny may have emphasized it but he didn't execute it when Cut was here he let Cutler have free range which put a poor defensive unit on the field more than they should be. With Shanny and Cutler our defense was never fresh and he always put our defense in bad situations in terms of field position.

thats just my take on it tho.

so far were in the top 10 this pre-season in time of possession that is a step in the right direction, now its time to focus on the turnovers and red zone production.

I dont think that is true or fair to last years team.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats

Our defense faced the second fewest drives in the league. On a per drive basis, our offense was one of the most efficient in the league. It did have a problem with turnovers but it also had the least number of punts. They also drove the furthest per drive and had the worst starting field position in the league. The big problem with scoring was the fact that we didnt get any turnovers at all on defense and always had horrible field position.

I don't get it though. The offense did make mistakes. Did they really do that bad? It was an offense of rookie-3rd year players. What was there to complain about? Did you really go into the season thinking they were going to be mistake free? There is no justification for what happened this offseason.

TheReverend
08-31-2009, 06:02 PM
I don't trust him to do anything resembling "winning"

DBroncos4life
08-31-2009, 06:19 PM
I don't know maybe its my bad fan attitude but I think I would like to see "a" win before I make a thread like this.

azbroncfan
08-31-2009, 06:36 PM
I am officially worried about the future of the Denver Bronco's franchise. This mess is going to take years to get figured out.

Jason in LA
08-31-2009, 06:39 PM
At this point there are no indications that he'll ever turn this team into a winner. I'm hoping that he does. But he has no track record as a head coach, and the only really big move during his tenure was to trade a Pro Bowl QB and replace him with a QB who just isn't any good.

But he's who the Broncos hired, and I'll always root for the team. So I'm in support of him. I guess I'm hoping this works out. But there isn't much of anything to make be believe it will... at this point at least.

BroncoBuff
08-31-2009, 06:49 PM
I trust his brain and his football knowledge, that's for sure. And his general approach to coaching.

I'm not convinced he has the maturity yet though:

1) He failed to quell the Cutler and Marshall messes, something he probably could have taken care of with a little skill and experience. I agree with Michaels and Collinsworth, you just must work that out. I believe Cutler will haunt us, and the odds are better than 50-50 one of Ayers or Alphonso will bust/disappoint;
2) He traded up over and over on draft day with questionable return, and now because the roster is too full we'll be waiving several guys who can play in this league;
3) He failed to protect the higher/lower of the 1st-round picks in the Seahawks trade, a rank amateur move;
4) Obviously frustrated by the loss, he made a snippy comment about Cutler last night. Imo that's bush league.

jhns
08-31-2009, 06:52 PM
I trust his brain and his football knowledge, that's for sure. And his general approach to coaching.


I agree with this. I think he has the potential to be a very good coach. I also think that will be when he has an experienced GM to handle everything that most GMs handle. As he has shown, he isn't ready for the kind of power this team gives head coaches.

SoCalBronco
08-31-2009, 07:16 PM
I dont trust him. I find him untrustworthy.

Rep. :strong:

BroncoBuff
08-31-2009, 07:29 PM
2) He traded up over and over on draft day with questionable return, and now because the roster is too full we'll be waiving several guys who can play in this league;
This is under-discussed point here ... we drafted 5 guys in two rounds, plus Bruton, McKinley, Olsen and Brandstater are locks. That's eight guys right there, too many youngsters on what was already a very young roster.

That's poor roster management, in the sense that we're now forced to cut numerous guys that can play. I'm thinking 5+ guys we waive will catch on elsewhere.

spdirty
08-31-2009, 07:37 PM
Why the hell should I or we trust him? Till the guy gives me a reason to trust him I wont. I absolutely completely despise that guy right now. If I met him face to face Id cuss him out.

This guy, with our owners help, has made the Denver Broncos the JOKE OF THE LEAGUE!!!!! Why in Gods name would I trust this moron to do anything than **** up our team more than it is?

Trust is earned, not given. But some people give away their trust like its nothing. Its like Dale from King of the Hill who trusts John Redcorn to take care of his wifes headaches. So pathetic, you just have to laugh to keep from shaking your head.

spdirty
08-31-2009, 07:40 PM
People ask me this question all the time, they always point to the Cutler thing and ask how I can trust him and I answer with this.

I trust him because he came in and didn't just want to fix the defense and ignore everything else he came in and addressed all of our needs and especially our HUGE problems on offense and made a emphasis on becoming a real TEAM and playing together and focused on turning the team into a hard nosed tough football team, that plays good situational football. Thats why I trust him, because I was tired of watching a soft football team take the field every week and getting blown out by terrible teams like the lions basically playing down to our competition and watching my favorite football team start 7-3 or 5-2 every year and finish 8-8 or less and fail to make the playoffs since the 2005 season....thats why. This team needed a face lift and we got it even we don't start winning this season positive change is in effect.:notworthy

how about you guys?

We'll be lucky if we win 5 games all year.

Popps
08-31-2009, 07:52 PM
Why the hell should I or we trust him? Till the guy gives me a reason to trust him I wont..

So, you make decisions based on no evidence? Shanahan got 10 years with one playoff win, and he doesn't get a single regular season game? Hope you never serve on a jury.

W If I met him face to face Id cuss him out.
.

I'm sure he'd be all broken up about that.


This guy, with our owners help, has made the Denver Broncos the JOKE OF THE LEAGUE!!!!! .

Only if you choose to look at it that way. Last I checked, we haven't played a single game. We've won 1 playoff game in a decade, and have struggled for three straight seasons.

Suddenly, we're a joke before we play a single game?

Again, decisions based on no evidence rarely pan out to be fruitful.


Trust is earned, not given. But some people give away their trust like its nothing.


Wait, so you're criticizing people for making rash decisions?




Got it.

rugbythug
08-31-2009, 07:54 PM
I just don't get this he has to Earn my trust BS. He is the head coach he has to earn jack. He earned it already. We either are fans of the team and want him to succeed, or as in 1/2 the internet pop, Are whiny me first bitches who would rather be right and the Broncos suck balls.

orinjkrush
08-31-2009, 08:12 PM
everything. I mean EVERYTHING has imploded on Mr McPoopypants. And he is gettin riled up. And nasty. And I like it.

Inkana7
08-31-2009, 08:14 PM
Because he cares about more than yards per game.

lex
08-31-2009, 08:16 PM
So, you make decisions based on no evidence? Shanahan got 10 years with one playoff win, and he doesn't get a single regular season game? Hope you never serve on a jury.


I'm sure he'd be all broken up about that.



Only if you choose to look at it that way. Last I checked, we haven't played a single game. We've won 1 playoff game in a decade, and have struggled for three straight seasons.

Suddenly, we're a joke before we play a single game?

Again, decisions based on no evidence rarely pan out to be fruitful.




Wait, so you're criticizing people for making rash decisions?




Got it.

That would not be making a decision. Quite the opposite.

lex
08-31-2009, 08:17 PM
I just don't get this he has to Earn my trust BS. He is the head coach he has to earn jack. He earned it already. We either are fans of the team and want him to succeed, or as in 1/2 the internet pop, Are whiny me first b****es who would rather be right and the Broncos suck balls.

Your characterization is totally wrong.

Inkana7
08-31-2009, 08:17 PM
I trust his brain and his football knowledge, that's for sure. And his general approach to coaching.

I'm not convinced he has the maturity yet though:

1) He failed to quell the Cutler and Marshall messes, something he probably could have taken care of with a little skill and experience. I agree with Michaels and Collinsworth, you just must work that out. I believe Cutler will haunt us, and the odds are better than 50-50 one of Ayers or Alphonso will bust/disappoint;
2) He traded up over and over on draft day with questionable return, and now because the roster is too full we'll be waiving several guys who can play in this league;
3) He failed to protect the higher/lower of the 1st-round picks in the Seahawks trade, a rank amateur move;
4) Obviously frustrated by the loss, he made a snippy comment about Cutler last night. Imo that's bush league.

You do know Cutler made the snippy comment first, right?

TheReverend
08-31-2009, 08:18 PM
Because he cares about more than yards per game.

And with a collective 13 points in 6 quarters of playing our starters, it shows.

Inkana7
08-31-2009, 08:19 PM
Your characterization is totally wrong.

No, he's completely right. People care more about saying "I told you so!" than in watching the team succeed. You included.

Inkana7
08-31-2009, 08:20 PM
And with a collective 13 points in 6 quarters of playing our starters, it shows.

Marquand Manual is not playing safety. I am happy.

Spider
08-31-2009, 08:21 PM
it isnt so much trust as it is giving the guy a chance

lex
08-31-2009, 08:24 PM
No, he's completely right. People care more about saying "I told you so!" than in watching the team succeed. You included.

And your characterization is totally wrong as well. Especially where Im concerned. As I said previously, I expect the team to win 10 games.

TheReverend
08-31-2009, 08:25 PM
Marquand Manual is not playing safety. I am happy.

Care to list all the stud FA safeties that were available last year, apparently?

Popps
08-31-2009, 08:29 PM
it isnt so much trust as it is giving the guy a chance

What a ****ing stupid idea.




Take that **** outta here.

Spider
08-31-2009, 08:32 PM
What a ****ing stupid idea.




Take that **** outta here.

;D.........I would except for I am out of Hours boss ........... Some guy had his wagon break in 2 , blocked the entire road , DOT was out there ...... I got caught out of hours ;D

spdirty
08-31-2009, 08:34 PM
So, you make decisions based on no evidence? Shanahan got 10 years with one playoff win, and he doesn't get a single regular season game? Hope you never serve on a jury.



I'm sure he'd be all broken up about that.



Only if you choose to look at it that way. Last I checked, we haven't played a single game. We've won 1 playoff game in a decade, and have struggled for three straight seasons.

Suddenly, we're a joke before we play a single game?

Again, decisions based on no evidence rarely pan out to be fruitful.




Wait, so you're criticizing people for making rash decisions?




Got it.

My real hard evidence for not liking/trusting this guy are the 3 personnel clusterf@cks that have taken place with him as coach (Cutler, draft, 15) And the public display of shlt that he has trotted out 3 times so far.

8 months ago we were a second tier team on the verge of being a top tier with the possiblity of have an offense as potent as the Indianapolis Colts. We are now a team with more holes than we had last year, which looks like a team that will compete for the division cellar this year.

When this guy got here, his job should have been to tweak the offense a little bit, and fix the defense. Instead he ****ed the offense up and made running back a higher priority than front 7.

Now if he is able to win with this collection of players, Ill happily eat my crow. If not he needs to go. Ill give him a mulligan this year, but 2010 if this team isnt in the playoffs, he needs to go.

So, sorry if I make my judgements on what this kid has done personnel wise. Ive critisized and praised Shanny for all of his personnel moves, and Ive been right sometimes, and wrong sometimes with him. But in the end he got the benefit of the doubt because he got the 2 ticker tape parades to Denver, and I am still amazed at how he was able to completely tear down and rebuild the offense with arguably as much talent as the 96-98 teams had.

And now when I see this offense I get plssed. Because the main component of the ferrari is missing. And its all because of bullshlt ego.

And bottom line, when a guy tries to trade a 25 year old pro bowl quarterback for a career backup, that tends to make me think "gee, I really dont know if this kid, who has had absolutely no success as a head coach anywhere, knows wtf he's doing."

When he trades next years first round pick for a 5'9 conrerback, and trades up to get a blocking tight end, when we have arguably the best blocking tight end in the league already, and with the 12th pick, he takes a running back over defensive help, when we already have Peyton Hillis, that tends to make me think "gee, I really dont know if this kid, who has had absolutely no success as a head coach anywhere, knows wtf he's doing."

So sorry if I am skeptical of this kids ability to lead a franchise and team. But if he ever actually shows me that he's capable, thats when he'll get my trust. Right now though, Dove Valley looks like a frickin dysfunctional circus.

Pseudofool
08-31-2009, 08:38 PM
The man clearly has a plan. He has particular kind of players he wants and he's not going to make exceptions. He values character, leadership, hustle, toughness, and intensity. He actively coaches. He's willing to delegate to his other coaches to do what they think is best (of course within his scheme). I just dig his attitude.

It's too early to speak about how good he is at player evaluation, but I admire the fact that he had a list of players he targeted in the draft and didn't budge from that because of need.

Look, Josh was dealt a tough hand here in Denver with the defense in shambles and the offensive stars being primadonnas. That's unusual. And I'm willing to cut him some slack as long as I see a consistent plan and smart analysis from him.

Honestly, none of has seen anywhere close to enough to make a decision about whether or not we can trust McDaniels with the future of the franchise. Some might think that the whole Cutler debacle might shorten his leach, but I think it legethens it. He's going to have three years to work things out.

Pseudofool
08-31-2009, 08:39 PM
No, he's completely right. People care more about saying "I told you so!" than in watching the team succeed. You included.Agreed.

TheDave
08-31-2009, 08:40 PM
My real hard evidence for not liking/trusting this guy are the 3 personnel clusterI'd like to crawl in the same snuggie withs that have taken place with him as coach (Cutler, draft, 15) And the public display of shlt that he has trotted out 3 times so far.

8 months ago we were a second tier team on the verge of being a top tier with the possiblity of have an offense as potent as the Indianapolis Colts. We are now a team with more holes than we had last year, which looks like a team that will compete for the division cellar this year.

When this guy got here, his job should have been to tweak the offense a little bit, and fix the defense. Instead he ****ed the offense up and made running back a higher priority than front 7.

Now if he is able to win with this collection of players, Ill happily eat my crow. If not he needs to go. Ill give him a mulligan this year, but 2010 if this team isnt in the playoffs, he needs to go.

So, sorry if I make my judgements on what this kid has done personnel wise. Ive critisized and praised Shanny for all of his personnel moves, and Ive been right sometimes, and wrong sometimes with him. But in the end he got the benefit of the doubt because he got the 2 ticker tape parades to Denver, and I am still amazed at how he was able to completely tear down and rebuild the offense with arguably as much talent as the 96-98 teams had.

And now when I see this offense I get plssed. Because the main component of the ferrari is missing. And its all because of bullshlt ego.

And bottom line, when a guy tries to trade a 25 year old pro bowl quarterback for a career backup, that tends to make me think "gee, I really dont know if this kid, who has had absolutely no success as a head coach anywhere, knows wtf he's doing."

When he trades next years first round pick for a 5'9 conrerback, and trades up to get a blocking tight end, when we have arguably the best blocking tight end in the league already, and with the 12th pick, he takes a running back over defensive help, when we already have Peyton Hillis, that tends to make me think "gee, I really dont know if this kid, who has had absolutely no success as a head coach anywhere, knows wtf he's doing."

So sorry if I am skeptical of this kids ability to lead a franchise and team. But if he ever actually shows me that he's capable, thats when he'll get my trust. Right now though, Dove Valley looks like a frickin dysfunctional circus.

Sounds reasonable to me...

Pseudofool
08-31-2009, 08:44 PM
8 months ago we were a second tier team on the verge of being a top tier What fantasy world were you living in? Can I come? The drugs must be great.

spdirty
08-31-2009, 08:46 PM
I just don't get this he has to Earn my trust BS. He is the head coach he has to earn jack. He earned it already. We either are fans of the team and want him to succeed, or as in 1/2 the internet pop, Are whiny me first b****es who would rather be right and the Broncos suck balls.

So were Lions fans wrong for despising Matt Millen? I mean that guy shouldnt have had to earn jack shlt either right? Those fans shouldve just shut up and supported that team through thick and thin and quit being me first bltches right?

How bout Dolphans when Cam Cameron got there? Or 49er fans after they fired Mooch and hired that loser Erickson? Or Chiefs fans under Herm (nevermind, those morons were excited when he got there).

Now I dont know what kind of coach McDaniels is going to be, but judging from his personnel moves, I think my 4 year old son could run a team with less dysfuntion than this clown.

Or am I not allowed to judge the comptetency of an organization based on their personnel moves?

Taco John
08-31-2009, 08:47 PM
Again, to me... the parallels between Shanny and him are hard to argue.


I agree with this sentiment. Shanahan and McDaniels aren't very far removed from eachother. McDaniels reminds me of a younger Shanahan.

lex
08-31-2009, 08:48 PM
My real hard evidence for not liking/trusting this guy are the 3 personnel clusterI'd like to crawl in the same snuggie withs that have taken place with him as coach (Cutler, draft, 15) And the public display of shlt that he has trotted out 3 times so far.

8 months ago we were a second tier team on the verge of being a top tier with the possiblity of have an offense as potent as the Indianapolis Colts. We are now a team with more holes than we had last year, which looks like a team that will compete for the division cellar this year.

When this guy got here, his job should have been to tweak the offense a little bit, and fix the defense. Instead he ****ed the offense up and made running back a higher priority than front 7.

Now if he is able to win with this collection of players, Ill happily eat my crow. If not he needs to go. Ill give him a mulligan this year, but 2010 if this team isnt in the playoffs, he needs to go.

So, sorry if I make my judgements on what this kid has done personnel wise. Ive critisized and praised Shanny for all of his personnel moves, and Ive been right sometimes, and wrong sometimes with him. But in the end he got the benefit of the doubt because he got the 2 ticker tape parades to Denver, and I am still amazed at how he was able to completely tear down and rebuild the offense with arguably as much talent as the 96-98 teams had.

And now when I see this offense I get plssed. Because the main component of the ferrari is missing. And its all because of bullshlt ego.

And bottom line, when a guy tries to trade a 25 year old pro bowl quarterback for a career backup, that tends to make me think "gee, I really dont know if this kid, who has had absolutely no success as a head coach anywhere, knows wtf he's doing."

When he trades next years first round pick for a 5'9 conrerback, and trades up to get a blocking tight end, when we have arguably the best blocking tight end in the league already, and with the 12th pick, he takes a running back over defensive help, when we already have Peyton Hillis, that tends to make me think "gee, I really dont know if this kid, who has had absolutely no success as a head coach anywhere, knows wtf he's doing."

So sorry if I am skeptical of this kids ability to lead a franchise and team. But if he ever actually shows me that he's capable, thats when he'll get my trust. Right now though, Dove Valley looks like a frickin dysfunctional circus.

Yup

lex
08-31-2009, 08:50 PM
I agree with this sentiment. Shanahan and McDaniels aren't very far removed from eachother. McDaniels reminds me of a younger Shanahan.

How is that? Shanahan had a broad base of knowledge and experience to work with from the various jobs he had in college and in the NFL. Josh has been in New England.

Pseudofool
08-31-2009, 08:52 PM
How is that? Shanahan had a broad base of knowledge and experience to work with from the various jobs he had in college and in the NFL. Josh has been in New England.Where he's filled a number of positions including on the defensive side, something I'm not sure Shanny can claim. Again it depends on how you define breadth.

I agree that beyond the offensive mastermind and youth, I don't think their personalities or coaching styles are similar at all.

spdirty
08-31-2009, 08:53 PM
What fantasy world were you living in? Can I come? The drugs must be great.

Once again, if he were to leave the personnel on offense alone, and coach em up, and make the right moves to get the front 7 right, we would compete for a Super Bowl NEXT YEAR. And now its very possible that we might give Seattle a top 3 pick NEXT YEAR.

Spider
08-31-2009, 08:59 PM
Once again, if he were to leave the personnel on offense alone, and coach em up, and make the right moves to get the front 7 right, we would compete for a Super Bowl NEXT YEAR. And now its very possible that we might give Seattle a top 3 pick NEXT YEAR.

I am a huge homer ,even I dont believe that ****

Ambiguous
08-31-2009, 09:05 PM
I agree with this sentiment. Shanahan and McDaniels aren't very far removed from eachother. McDaniels reminds me of a younger Shanahan.

You guys are right. Only shanny made the mistake of not trading elway that first off-season.

Pseudofool
08-31-2009, 09:05 PM
Once again, if he were to leave the personnel on offense alone, and coach em up, and make the right moves to get the front 7 right, we would compete for a Super Bowl NEXT YEAR. And now its very possible that we might give Seattle a top 3 pick NEXT YEAR. That's a lot of what ifs. The same could have been said for every season since Cutler was here, and it never happened; our defense got worse. Making the right moves (has Shanny showed he could do this in the draft or in FA recently (on the defensive side)?) and coaching them up (what is Cutler going to throw for 5000 yards?) aren't snap of the finger kind of activities. And are you just ignoring the fact that Shanny wanted to keep Slowick around? You're also assuming we wouldn't have similar antics from Marshall and/or Jay with Shanny around. I might agree with the latter, but I'm sure Marshall always was going to be a punk this preseason no matter who the coach was.

But seriously, you were thinking superbowl this year? After our three game collapse? Hilarious! I pity you.

Taco John
08-31-2009, 09:09 PM
How is that? Shanahan had a broad base of knowledge and experience to work with from the various jobs he had in college and in the NFL. Josh has been in New England.

They were both young, determined guys who were lauded for their offensive minds at young ages. Both of them won a Superbowl running an offense that was among the top offenses in the game when they were in charge of them. The systems that they run aren't tremendously different. They both rely on short passes and running game as a big part of their formula for success. Shanahan had a bit more experience than Josh, which has been my biggest criticism of his hiring - but he's getting the crash course. He may make it in Denver just yet. I certainly wouldn't count him out at this point.

lex
08-31-2009, 09:11 PM
They were both young, determined guys who were lauded for their offensive minds at young ages. Both of them won a Superbowl running an offense that was among the top offenses in the game when they were in charge of them. The systems that they run aren't tremendously different. They both rely on short passes and running game as a big part of their formula for success. Shanahan had a bit more experience than Josh, which has been my biggest criticism of his hiring - but he's getting the crash course. He may make it in Denver just yet. I certainly wouldn't count him out at this point.

???

Taco John
08-31-2009, 09:12 PM
No, you're right. McDaniels only had a perfect regular season. The Giants ended up winning that one. My bad.

lex
08-31-2009, 09:15 PM
No, you're right. McDaniels only had a perfect regular season. The Giants ended up winning that one. My bad.

Thats right. And NE was undone by their offense.

Br0nc0Buster
08-31-2009, 09:21 PM
I think McDaniels is a very bright and determined young man

This is why I am optimistic that his tenure will be a good one

I think the defense will be much improved, and once the offense gets a grasp on things(Wes Welker said it takes a year to figure it out), we will be able to compete with any team in any condition

fdf
08-31-2009, 09:48 PM
People ask me this question all the time, they always point to the Cutler thing and ask how I can trust him and I answer with this.

I trust him because he came in and didn't just want to fix the defense and ignore everything else he came in and addressed all of our needs and especially our HUGE problems on offense and made a emphasis on becoming a real TEAM and playing together and focused on turning the team into a hard nosed tough football team, that plays good situational football. Thats why I trust him, because I was tired of watching a soft football team take the field every week and getting blown out by terrible teams like the lions basically playing down to our competition and watching my favorite football team start 7-3 or 5-2 every year and finish 8-8 or less and fail to make the playoffs since the 2005 season....thats why. This team needed a face lift and we got it even we don't start winning this season positive change is in effect.:notworthy

how about you guys?

This year, I don't think he will. We have almost complete turnover on D and a brand new system for the few remaining starters. Pretty good continuity on O but a brand new system and new QB. Add to that the obvious problems that existed with the relations between management and players (imho, certain players were running the show, not the coaches) and all the offseason drama that has accompanied changing that relationship.

It would take a miracle to produce a winner this year on our schedule. The team had to be torn apart and rebuilt. But I don't think much of the fanbase is willing to accept that and will run McDaniels out of town before the rebuild is finished. Then we get to hire another coach and start the drama all over.

spdirty
08-31-2009, 09:59 PM
I am a huge homer ,even I dont believe that ****

Why?

spdirty
08-31-2009, 10:13 PM
That's a lot of what ifs.

Yeah, biggest what if being IF he didnt screw the offense up.

And are you just ignoring the fact that Shanny wanted to keep Slowick around?

Nope. But I do know he wouldve taken probably an Orakpo over Moreno, which helps one of our most pressing needs.And it also bugged me that Woodyard and Larsen were benched as soon as tweetle dee and tweetle dumb got healthy again...But wait...where are Larsen and Woodyard now?

Biggest problem with that D (though Slowik sucks) was talent, as we will see this year.

You're also assuming we wouldn't have similar antics from Marshall and/or Jay with Shanny around. I might agree with the latter, but I'm sure Marshall always was going to be a punk this preseason no matter who the coach was.

Judging from his experience in dealing with problem players, I wouldve had all the confidence in the world in him to handle the situation.

But seriously, you were thinking superbowl this year? After our three game collapse? Hilarious! I pity you.

No, I wasnt thinking Super Bowl this year. I was thinking 7-10 wins and make a run in 2010, since we get the NFC West and AFC South next year.

Spider
08-31-2009, 10:21 PM
Why?

1. we dont have the dominate TE ......Every SB bound team does , we dont need a Sharpe or a Mark Bravaro , But we need more then what we have .......
2. Defense .......... even still
3.Lack of power running game , this kills us in the red zone , Super bowl teams convert instead of FG ..
4. No killer instinct
5. Most of all Cutler himself ...Yeah I know Franchise QB ,Next best thing since the ball point pen , even greater then sliced bread , but yet he didnt deliver in the red zone , not saying all of our woes were his fault , but damn some of the choices he made in the red zone .. He made Plummer look cautious ..........
6 Way to many coaching turnovers , in one year out the other ...... Good teams stay consistent as much as possible , you dont get any where swapping out Coaches ....
And last but not least , the tea leaves didnt give off the right vibes for a SB year ...........

spdirty
08-31-2009, 10:31 PM
1. we dont have the dominate TE ......Every SB bound team does , we dont need a Sharpe or a Mark Bravaro , But we need more then what we have .......
2. Defense .......... even still
3.Lack of power running game , this kills us in the red zone , Super bowl teams convert instead of FG ..
4. No killer instinct
5. Most of all Cutler himself ...Yeah I know Franchise QB ,Next best thing since the ball point pen , even greater then sliced bread , but yet he didnt deliver in the red zone , not saying all of our woes were his fault , but damn some of the choices he made in the red zone .. He made Plummer look cautious ..........
6 Way to many coaching turnovers , in one year out the other ...... Good teams stay consistent as much as possible , you dont get any where swapping out Coaches ....
And last but not least , the tea leaves didnt give off the right vibes for a SB year ...........

And I was saying that it was very possible for McDaniels, with good offseason moves, to turn us into a contender next year, not this year. It isnt easy, but it damn sure isnt impossible to turn this defense into a potent turnover machine (offseason after the second colts disaster Shanny did that for 1 and a half seasons).

Wouldve basically been the offenses 3rd straight year together, by then they shouldve been a well oiled machine. And you make the right personnel moves on defense, they shouldve been a top tier team next year.

spdirty
08-31-2009, 10:36 PM
and I dont think Heath Miller is better than our TEs, dont think the Giants had better TEs than us, and Shockey wasnt even playing for em then. Indy, yeah Clark is good, but the Patriots? Eh, they had Daniel Graham, and a collection of TEs that specialize at either blocking or receiving. dont even know who the Bucs TE was.

Spider
08-31-2009, 10:37 PM
And I was saying that it was very possible for McDaniels, with good offseason moves, to turn us into a contender next year, not this year. It isnt easy, but it damn sure isnt impossible to turn this defense into a potent turnover machine (offseason after the second colts disaster Shanny did that for 1 and a half seasons).

Wouldve basically been the offenses 3rd straight year together, by then they shouldve been a well oiled machine. And you make the right personnel moves on defense, they shouldve been a top tier team next year.

Meh .......... maybe you should have started this post out with once upon a time , and ended with they lived happily ever after .............no one fixes that many holes in one shot

Pseudofool
08-31-2009, 10:37 PM
But I do know he wouldve taken probably an Orakpo over Moreno, which helps one of our most pressing needs.
Orakpo would play OLB just as Ayers is doing. And you don't know that Shanny would have taken him; that's pure speculation. Orakpo could very well not work out, ala Moss. (I'm not convinced that Shanny wouldn't take Moreno, btw.)

Biggest problem with that D (though Slowik sucks) was talent, as we will see this year.How can you not blame Shanny for the lack of talent? We've had defensive problems for years; and he's failed to address it. What is he going to magically get it right? WTF?
Judging from his experience in dealing with problem players, I wouldve had all the confidence in the world in him to handle the situation. Like Dale Carter and Maurice Clarett. Come on. Shanny has brought in low character guys and he's gotten burned for it more than once.

No, I wasnt thinking Super Bowl this year. I was thinking 7-10 wins and make a run in 2010, since we get the NFC West and AFC South next year.Which is not top tier, again you said we were on the "very of top tier"; that's mediocre.

It's clear you're walking back your superbowl and top tier crap, which I'm glad to see.

ZONA
08-31-2009, 10:57 PM
Trust? We don't have to trust Josh or even like him. Nothing anybody here, or any Bronco fan for that matter, will have any kind of impact on his career what so ever. We just go along for the ride. Some fans will get behind him and some won't. It doesn't matter either way. The only thing that we can control is our own feelings about him. Better to not get all hissy pissy about things and save your body and mind the stress. Just enjoy the ride, if you can.

summerdenver
08-31-2009, 11:19 PM
I don't and its not because of Cutler trade but because of what it represents. In my view McDaniels is too hung up in getting his way and NFL is all about flexibility. Have you seen any system that worked for more than may be for 10 years in the history of football. NFL is filled with lot of bright minds, and they will counter every system sonner or later.

IMO, he was not trying to fix the issues with our offense last year but was trying to get his guy - I mean Rodney Harrison said it clearly yesterday that Cutler trade was because of a ego thing and McDaniels wanted his guy - what more do you need? If he wants to fix the issues with offense, then fix it why trade away your QB without even putting him through one practice? So what Cutler has issues, coach him up thats why he took the job is it not?

lex
08-31-2009, 11:29 PM
Trust? We don't have to trust Josh or even like him. Nothing anybody here, or any Bronco fan for that matter, will have any kind of impact on his career what so ever. We just go along for the ride. Some fans will get behind him and some won't. It doesn't matter either way. The only thing that we can control is our own feelings about him. Better to not get all hissy pissy about things and save your body and mind the stress. Just enjoy the ride, if you can.

Wrong. Overwhelmingly negative fan reaction is one way this can go south in a hurry. And considering they were already booing Orton in the preseason, it just goes to show theres little patience. Plus after the crowd stepped up big in the Chicago game, McDaniels and Co. just made them look like fools with their performance. Dont kid yourself and think that fan reaction has no affect on what happens with teams. On the mane you have a cross section that represents that fanbase as a whole and the boos can get extremely loud or even worse, be followed by silence.

broncocalijohn
08-31-2009, 11:42 PM
I cant say how he will coach this year with a less than stellar qb and problems with our top notch WR and one tough schedule and learning curves. I think he has a great offensive mind as proven in NE. I think he will bring that winning attitude back to Denver. Also, he was smart enough to stay away from Slowick which help sink Shanny. Not sure if he can make Orton into Cassel but if his scheme is as good as it was in New England, I will be happy. We have had 3 so so years so I can wait another one. I would like to see a 8 and 8 record at least and that should be very positive.

WolfpackGuy
09-01-2009, 05:38 AM
He might've had a chance with Cutler under center.
You really have to question his judgment if he thought he'd be better off long term with Cassel rather than Cutler.
He took a team that was an average defense, average special teams, and healthy RB away from being a contender.
Now, the Broncos are a flaming pile of vulture crap.

Vegas_Bronco
09-01-2009, 05:57 AM
My trust and respect is given to anyone I meet up to 10%...they earn the rest. Thus far, I've heard McD say something and then reverse his mind 2-3 times and now on national TV he'll look the fool if they trade BMarsh, the whole Jaygate is sickening, and the offense looks mediocre - tbh, he hasn't done much to 'earn the rest'.

DrFate
09-01-2009, 08:26 AM
1) I don't
2) it is humorous to say he comes from a 'great coaching tree'. That 'tree' is an epic pile of FAIL. Bellicheat has his legacy - the rest of the 'nuts' from that tree are rotten.

spdirty
09-01-2009, 08:29 AM
Orakpo would play OLB just as Ayers is doing. And you don't know that Shanny would have taken him; that's pure speculation. Orakpo could very well not work out, ala Moss. (I'm not convinced that Shanny wouldn't take Moreno, btw.)

In the 4-3 Orakpo would be a DE. And I dont think Shanny could take Knowshon and get away with it.

How can you not blame Shanny for the lack of talent? We've had defensive problems for years; and he's failed to address it. What is he going to magically get it right? WTF?

And Id bet he would have taken best available defensive player with at least his first 4 picks. Hell Id be willing to bet we would see 7 or 8 new starters on defense this year anyway. God knows the guy has tried his ass off to address it. Biggest mistake IMO, was firing Coyer.

Like Dale Carter and Maurice Clarett. Come on. Shanny has brought in low character guys and he's gotten burned for it more than once.
Which is not top tier, again you said we were on the "very of top tier"; that's mediocre.

How big a problem was Maurice Clarett In the long run? Lelie, Gardner, Pryce, and Portis. I thought he dealt with all those problem players just fine.

It's clear you're walking back your superbowl and top tier crap, which I'm glad to see.

Im not walking anything back. Its clear reading comprehension is not your strong suit. I have always said and believed that 2010, ie, NEXT YEAR, should be the year we make a run. I distinctly remember him turning the defense around in 1 season from '04 to '05 with the Browncos. Didnt workj out in the long term but for 1-1 1/2 seasons it did. Now scheme and blitz were a big part of that, but getting a pass rush and getting the talent to get the run defense under control is not impossible to do in 2 offseasons.

jhns
09-01-2009, 08:39 AM
I still can't believe so many are supporting mcdaniels. Are you serious? You think these are good decisions? You people actually want these kind of decisions to continue? Denver fans have to be some of the least knowledgable football fans in this sport. At least raider and lions fans can see what is happening with those teams.

You all will see how dumb this is and how horrible this offseason has been. I'm not sure why some of you need years to figure it out. The rest of the world can see it. Mcd has no clue what he is doing, xanders has no clue what he is doing, ellis doesn't even know what a football is, and bowlen has admitted that he doesn't know what he is doing (and that is why he leaves decisions to those that he payed to make them).

I love that people actually think they are being good fans. It is like cheering for cancer because your mom has it. She has it so I will support it until I see it kill her. If she isn't actually dead yet, why would I not support it? Oh right, I can use my head and see that it is killing her.....

Gort
09-01-2009, 08:53 AM
8 months ago we were a second tier team on the verge of being a top tier with the possiblity of have an offense as potent as the Indianapolis Colts.

are you nuts? or just a Shanny/Cutler/Marshall nuthugger?

almost 8 months ago exactly, the Broncos needed 1 win to secure a playoff berth. they faced SD. they lost 52-21. that's a beatdown. the Broncos O, D, and ST all sucked that day. is that your evidence that the Broncos with Shanny/Cutler/Marshall were on the verge of being a top tier team? because if it is, its not persuasive.

footstepsfrom#27
09-01-2009, 08:57 AM
I only trust three people.

vancejohnson82
09-01-2009, 09:04 AM
I still can't believe so many are supporting mcdaniels. Are you serious? You think these are good decisions? You people actually want these kind of decisions to continue? Denver fans have to be some of the least knowledgable football fans in this sport. At least raider and lions fans can see what is happening with those teams.

You all will see how dumb this is and how horrible this offseason has been. I'm not sure why some of you need years to figure it out. The rest of the world can see it. Mcd has no clue what he is doing, xanders has no clue what he is doing, ellis doesn't even know what a football is, and bowlen has admitted that he doesn't know what he is doing (and that is why he leaves decisions to those that he payed to make them).

I love that people actually think they are being good fans. It is like cheering for cancer because your mom has it. She has it so I will support it until I see it kill her. If she isn't actually dead yet, why would I not support it? Oh right, I can use my head and see that it is killing her.....


quite possibly the worst analogy every written on the internet...

at no time during that blabbering, incoherent collection of words did you make any sense. I award you no points and make God have mercy on your soul

lex
09-01-2009, 09:06 AM
quite possibly the worst analogy every written on the internet...

at no time during that blabbering, incoherent collection of words did you make any sense. I award you no points and make God have mercy on your soul

It was actually an accurate analogy. Though it lacks the severity/scale of someone having cancer, it is kind of like that.

TailgateNut
09-01-2009, 09:09 AM
Get out of here! Really? Why haven't you made your feelings known before on 10,000 other threads?


My "IGNORE LEX" feature doesn't work when you quote the whiney ass Cutler lovin bitch.

vancejohnson82
09-01-2009, 09:09 AM
It was actually an accurate analogy. Though it lacks the severity/scale of someone having cancer, it is kind of like that.

really? Lex, we have never seen eye to eye on this board but cmon dude....

this team was nowhere near a perfectly healthy human being if we want to continue with this analogy. It's like getting a horrible infection in your leg (the 2008 Broncos were hospitalized and catching a bad fever by the end of the season) and amputating that leg for the benefit benefit of the whole body.

TailgateNut
09-01-2009, 09:10 AM
I soooo wish you guys would just put him on ignore.

Some of us try, but some of "US" quote him.

spdirty
09-01-2009, 09:12 AM
are you nuts? or just a Shanny/Cutler/Marshall nuthugger?

almost 8 months ago exactly, the Broncos needed 1 win to secure a playoff berth. they faced SD. they lost 52-21. that's a beatdown. the Broncos O, D, and ST all sucked that day. is that your evidence that the Broncos with Shanny/Cutler/Marshall were on the verge of being a top tier team? because if it is, its not persuasive.

With no healthy competent running backs. I refuse to excuse the defense, but for the offense to put up 21 points with absolutely no competent running backs was good. But, of course, probably by your standards, the offense shouldve put up 53.

That offense was young, extremely talented, made mistakes I know, but with another year or 2 together, with the right coaching, shouldve been the best offense in the league.

The defense and special teams was all that really needed to be fixed. Get another pass rusher, I loved the LB core of Woodyard, Larsen, and DJ. Wouldve needed a couple new safeties and a cornerback. Basically our secondary now. Give credit, it does appear that McDaniels did turn that secondary into a strength. We'll see.

footstepsfrom#27
09-01-2009, 09:12 AM
really? Lex, we have never seen eye to eye on this board but cmon dude....

this team was nowhere near a perfectly healthy human being if we want to continue with this analogy. It's like getting a horrible infection in your leg (the 2008 Broncos were hospitalized and catching a bad fever by the end of the season) and amputating that leg for the benefit benefit of the whole body.
I was thinking more along the lines of an amputation to fix the flu.

lex
09-01-2009, 09:12 AM
really? Lex, we have never seen eye to eye on this board but cmon dude....

this team was nowhere near a perfectly healthy human being if we want to continue with this analogy. It's like getting a horrible infection in your leg (the 2008 Broncos were hospitalized and catching a bad fever by the end of the season) and amputating that leg for the benefit benefit of the whole body.


Youre asking me to cmon...like Im supposed to relent to your sillyness? BTW, I wasnt really aware that we've rarely seen eye to eye.

TailgateNut
09-01-2009, 09:14 AM
Why the hell should I or we trust him? Till the guy gives me a reason to trust him I wont. I absolutely completely despise that guy right now. If I met him face to face Id cuss him out.

This guy, with our owners help, has made the Denver Broncos the JOKE OF THE LEAGUE!!!!! Why in Gods name would I trust this moron to do anything than **** up our team more than it is?

Trust is earned, not given. But some people give away their trust like its nothing. Its like Dale from King of the Hill who trusts John Redcorn to take care of his wifes headaches. So pathetic, you just have to laugh to keep from shaking your head.


Trusting someones' judgement who watches King of the Hills is assinine.

Ambiguous
09-01-2009, 09:15 AM
It was actually an accurate analogy. Though it lacks the severity/scale of someone having cancer, it is kind of like that.

Well thankfully we have the most objective guy here to validate it.

TailgateNut
09-01-2009, 09:16 AM
Because he cares about more than yards per game.



The "clueless ones" wont understand the "small print of you comment.

:wiggle:

Cito Pelon
09-01-2009, 09:17 AM
This year, I don't think he will. We have almost complete turnover on D and a brand new system for the few remaining starters. Pretty good continuity on O but a brand new system and new QB. Add to that the obvious problems that existed with the relations between management and players (imho, certain players were running the show, not the coaches) and all the offseason drama that has accompanied changing that relationship.

It would take a miracle to produce a winner this year on our schedule. The team had to be torn apart and rebuilt. But I don't think much of the fanbase is willing to accept that and will run McDaniels out of town before the rebuild is finished. Then we get to hire another coach and start the drama all over.

I see real indications that some fans are planning on doing exactly that before the team is out of the gate.

I'm willing to give him a chance to succeed for a couple seasons.

TailgateNut
09-01-2009, 09:19 AM
What fantasy world were you living in? Can I come? The drugs must be great.

It's the "thin air" in Bailey. You have to excuse the oxygen depleted brain function.

TailgateNut
09-01-2009, 09:28 AM
He might've had a chance with Cutler under center.
You really have to question his judgment if he thought he'd be better off long term with Cassel rather than Cutler.
He took a team that was an average defense, average special teams, and healthy RB away from being a contender.
Now, the Broncos are a flaming pile of vulture crap.

1. **** Cutler
2. No you don't have to question his judgement. (see item #1)
3. Avg *efense??? WTF were you watching last year?
4. Avg. ST??? Again, WTF were you watching last year?
5. **** U.

bendog
09-01-2009, 09:30 AM
What does the performance of shanahan have to do with whether this guy can coach, manage players or even conduct a competent draft?

TailgateNut
09-01-2009, 09:31 AM
really? Lex, we have never seen eye to eye on this board but cmon dude....

this team was nowhere near a perfectly healthy human being if we want to continue with this analogy. It's like getting a horrible infection in your leg (the 2008 Broncos were hospitalized and catching a bad fever by the end of the season) and amputating that leg for the benefit benefit of the whole body.

:notworthy

TailgateNut
09-01-2009, 09:33 AM
What does the performance of shanahan have to do with whether this guy can coach, manage players or even conduct a competent draft?


Where ya been, ya old fugger? Good to see ya back.

jhns
09-01-2009, 09:33 AM
1. **** Cutler
2. No you don't have to question his judgement. (see item #1)
3. Avg *efense??? WTF were you watching last year?
4. Avg. ST??? Again, WTF were you watching last year?
5. **** U.

LOL

Again showing you are far worse than cutler. You also are showing that you don't know how to read. Good stuff.

spdirty
09-01-2009, 09:34 AM
It's the "thin air" in Bailey. You have to excuse the oxygen depleted brain function.

Now your copying what morons at sea level say about you.

TailgateNut
09-01-2009, 09:36 AM
LOL

Again showing you are far worse than cutler. You also are showing that you don't know how to read. Good stuff.

???????

Go drink your Ovaltine!

jhns
09-01-2009, 09:38 AM
???????

Go drink your Ovaltine!

Go back to school.

WolfpackGuy
09-01-2009, 09:48 AM
He took a team that was an average defense, average special teams, and healthy RB away from being a contender.

Key word in that line was AWAY, but I digress. :)

Rohirrim
09-01-2009, 10:27 AM
Why do you trust Josh McDaniels to turn us into a winning football club?

It's the hoodie. ;D

Bronco Boy
09-01-2009, 10:28 AM
I guess reserving judgement until the guy has actually coached a game that matters would be out of the question.

DarkHorse30
09-01-2009, 11:10 AM
8 months ago we were a second tier team on the verge of being a top tier with the possiblity of have an offense as potent as the Indianapolis Colts.

You have to be joking. Denver was crap last year....that's why Shanahan got the boot. Great start, aaaaaaaannnnnnnnnndddd a major choke in December. Why haven't the "faithful" noticed how bad Denver/Shanahan has slumped since 2007?


When this guy got here, his job should have been to tweak the offense a little bit, and fix the defense.


Simple....fix the defense.....just like Shanahan has done every year?

The simple truth is that Denver has been a mediocre team for about 3 years....not second level, more like bottom scrapers. Last year would have been a great year for Shanahan to show how good he was by taking a middling to weak team into the playoffs in a very weak division. But......the worst choke I can remember happened.....led by a very bad defense, and an ineffective future "superstar" QB. Time to start over? Looks like it was.

TailgateNut
09-01-2009, 11:14 AM
You have to be joking. Denver was crap last year....that's why Shanahan got the boot. Great start, aaaaaaaannnnnnnnnndddd a major choke in December. Why haven't the "faithful" noticed how bad Denver/Shanahan has slumped since 2007?



Simple....fix the defense.....just like Shanahan has done every year?

The simple truth is that Denver has been a mediocre team for about 3 years....not second level, more like bottom scrapers. Last year would have been a great year for Shanahan to show how good he was by taking a middling to weak team into the playoffs in a very weak division. But......the worst choke I can remember happened.....led by a very bad defense, and an ineffective future "superstar" QB. Time to start over? Looks like it was.


In the "naysayers" mind we were "one player" from another back to back SB trip.ROFL!

How quickly people forget the Shanahan/Cutler letdown.

jhns
09-01-2009, 11:17 AM
In the "naysayers" mind we were "one player" from another back to back SB trip.ROFL!

How quickly people forget the Shanahan/Cutler letdown.

You people that say cutler was part of the problem will look pretty dumb when he has a winning record this season and orton has a losing record. Your great breakdowns of last years teams will expose how little people here understand what they are watching.

BroncoBuff
09-01-2009, 11:42 AM
Thats right. And NE was undone by their offense.

More accurately, undone by the Giants' pass rush.

lex
09-01-2009, 11:47 AM
More accurately, undone by the Giants' pass rush.


Not really. I mean, yeah, they had a good pass rush but all year NE fell in love with the pass and as a result scored a lot of points. But in the end, when they needed to run as was the case in the Giants game, it wasnt in their DNA. A) They didnt want to do it, and B) they couldnt do it. They forewent the balance that helps against teams like the Giants in favor of beating the Redskins 50-9. And actually, their scoring machine didnt really light it up against SD either. But when you consider Brady's ankle and the Giants pass rush, they really needed more from McDaniels and he didnt deliver.

If you run enough to keep the other team honest, pretty soon, the DEs arent pinning their ears back as much. It was a major gaffe by McDaniels.

One of the reasons I havent liked this offense is because so much of its based off pass plays in the SG. I was optimistic at one point, there would be a greater commitment to the run but Im more skeptical now than I was previously.

Bronx33
09-01-2009, 12:01 PM
We will see in two years then post this thread right now it's a wait and see approach but iam giving the guy a fair chance that he deserves.

broncocalijohn
09-01-2009, 01:05 PM
Some of you guys are revised historians. I have seen posts that claim we had an average ST and defense (folks, we sucked last year at those spots and many posted it and now call it average), that Shanny would have addressed the Defense (really? What gives you that impression and we still would have had Slowick running the clown show), comparing pro Broncos fans to those of Raiders fans (maybe last year the Faider fans have come around but they are one of dumbest group in the NFL) and that it seems Brandon Marshall's problems started this year under McDaniels reign (Flava clown was a menace will before this and those complaining have stated these facts last year). If you dont like McDaniels, fine but be consistent. Those that wanted to keep Shanny at least have their reasons based on the firings. I didnt like McDaniels screwing with Cutler and the trade talks but more and more started to dislike his attitude even more (I have been on board for two years lambasting those that think Cutler is above Rivers in talent and attitude). We were set to have a troubled 2009 regardless of coach and QB. As much as I liked Shanahan, it seemed his reluctance to know that a strong defense is the way to turn the team around into a contender got me to accept Bowlen's firing of Mike. If you guys like .500 ball like the last three seasons, then you should find another team. Bowlen isnt going to accept that and neither do I. We choked last year and will always be remembered for that 4 game lead and blew it for the playoffs. That is unacceptable in my eyes.

lex
09-01-2009, 01:10 PM
Some of you guys are revised historians. I have seen posts that claim we had an average ST and defense (folks, we sucked last year at those spots and many posted it and now call it average), that Shanny would have addressed the Defense (really? What gives you that impression and we still would have had Slowick running the clown show), comparing pro Broncos fans to those of Raiders fans (maybe last year the Faider fans have come around but they are one of dumbest group in the NFL) and that it seems Brandon Marshall's problems started this year under McDaniels reign (Flava clown was a menace will before this and those complaining have stated these facts last year). If you dont like McDaniels, fine but be consistent. Those that wanted to keep Shanny at least have their reasons based on the firings. I didnt like McDaniels screwing with Cutler and the trade talks but more and more started to dislike his attitude even more (I have been on board for two years lambasting those that think Cutler is above Rivers in talent and attitude). We were set to have a troubled 2009 regardless of coach and QB. As much as I liked Shanahan, it seemed his reluctance to know that a strong defense is the way to turn the team around into a contender got me to accept Bowlen's firing of Mike. If you guys like .500 ball like the last three seasons, then you should find another team. Bowlen isnt going to accept that and neither do I. We choked last year and will always be remembered for that 4 game lead and blew it for the playoffs. That is unacceptable in my eyes.

This is hilarious. People in your camp are trying to justify 4-12 that they anticipate will happen this year, yet youre saying 8-8 is unacceptable? LOL. OK.

DarkHorse30
09-01-2009, 01:24 PM
You people that say cutler was part of the problem will look pretty dumb when he has a winning record this season and orton has a losing record. Your great breakdowns of last years teams will expose how little people here understand what they are watching.

How about this: Cutler was NOT part of the problem last year.....but he CREATED problems this offseason.

He could have got along and helped build a great team....but he DIDN'T. I won't forgive him for being a quitter.

I also won't forgive him for calling out Rivers and then backing up his taunts by LOSING BADLY every time SD played us....except for Hochuli's gift. In 2007, when Cutler and Rivers started fighting, Cutler didn't even throw ONE td in TWO games. His biggest rival and Cutler choked every time they played.

El Guapo
09-01-2009, 01:25 PM
He hasn't done anything yet, therefor it's kind of hard to trust him. Time will tell.

lex
09-01-2009, 01:27 PM
He hasn't done anything yet, therefor it's kind of hard to trust him. Time will tell.

Youre right. He's just been coaching the team and has been letting the GM do his job.

jhns
09-01-2009, 01:28 PM
How about this: Cutler was NOT part of the problem last year.....but he CREATED problems this offseason.

He could have got along and helped build a great team....but he DIDN'T. I won't forgive him for being a quitter.

I also won't forgive him for calling out Rivers and then backing up his taunts by LOSING BADLY every time SD played us....except for Hochuli's gift. In 2007, when Cutler and Rivers started fighting, Cutler didn't even throw ONE td in TWO games. His biggest rival and he did choked every time they played.

You can try justifying this with anything you want. It is all lame excuses for mcdaniels though. To bad he is going to make all of his backers look half retarded by the time this season is over.

summerdenver
09-01-2009, 01:33 PM
How about this: Cutler was NOT part of the problem last year.....but he CREATED problems this offseason.

He could have got along and helped build a great team....but he DIDN'T. I won't forgive him for being a quitter.


Dude, wtf are you talking about. The new coach tried to trade him without even putting him through one practice. Cutler came to Denver to make up and play but McDaniels would not even say something like "I won't go after Cassel again, play for me and lets build the team together". what do you expect any QB worth his salt let alone hot head like Cutler to do.

When the team keeps saying its all business for us how can you expect loyalty from the player at the same time?

DarkHorse30
09-01-2009, 01:50 PM
Dude, wtf are you talking about. The new coach tried to trade him without even putting him through one practice. Cutler came to Denver to make up and play but McDaniels would not even say something like "I won't go after Cassel again, play for me and lets build the team together". what do you expect any QB worth his salt let alone hot head like Cutler to do.

When the team keeps saying its all business for us how can you expect loyalty from the player at the same time?

So McDaniels talked to Cassel.....WHO CARES? There wasn't a trade, and in fact KC paid Cassel a boatload of cash to go to the chiefs. Non issue? Not according to the whine king. For a QB that choked away his first chance at a playoff game to be so high and mighty......what kind of a dirtbag QB ****s on a rook coach like that? The guy needed his diaper changed and mommy and daddy were on vacation.

I don't get why fans CONTINUE to make excuses for Cutler's hissy fit. The guy DIDN'T want to be in Denver, so he cried like a little baby until they traded him. Blaming it on McDaniels talking to Cassel is laughable. What would be on the "don't do this or it will upset Jay" list next?

jhns
09-01-2009, 01:55 PM
So McDaniels talked to Cassel.....WHO CARES? There wasn't a trade, and in fact KC paid Cassel a boatload of cash to go to the chiefs. Non issue? Not according to the whine king. For a QB that choked away his first chance at a playoff game to be so high and mighty......what kind of a dirtbag QB ****s on a rook coach like that? The guy needed his diaper changed and mommy and daddy were on vacation.

I don't get why fans CONTINUE to make excuses for Cutler's hissy fit. The guy DIDN'T want to be in Denver, so he cried like a little baby until they traded him. Blaming it on McDaniels talking to Cassel is laughable. What would be on the "don't do this or it will upset Jay" list next?

The better question is who cares that cutler got upset? What does that have to do with football? This team showed that it has no idea how to deal with players. There was no reason to trade cutler. Why don't you explain how he hurt the team by being a baby...

I can easily show you how mcdaniels hurt the team when he acted like a baby. Of course, that is acceptable from the guys running the team right? Immature players ruin the team but immature front office make the team its best? What?

lex
09-01-2009, 01:56 PM
So McDaniels talked to Cassel.....WHO CARES? There wasn't a trade, and in fact KC paid Cassel a boatload of cash to go to the chiefs. Non issue? Not according to the whine king. For a QB that choked away his first chance at a playoff game to be so high and mighty......what kind of a dirtbag QB ****s on a rook coach like that? The guy needed his diaper changed and mommy and daddy were on vacation.

I don't get why fans CONTINUE to make excuses for Cutler's hissy fit. The guy DIDN'T want to be in Denver, so he cried like a little baby until they traded him. Blaming it on McDaniels talking to Cassel is laughable. What would be on the "don't do this or it will upset Jay" list next?

Relax. McDaniels wanted to get rid of him and now Cutler is gone. Of course, it blew up in McDaniels face but thats his own fault.

bendog
09-01-2009, 02:14 PM
Funny thing is that i'd have elated if they'd hired Nolan as HC with the provision he'd keep Dennison and Bates. lol

WolfpackGuy
09-01-2009, 02:26 PM
Funny thing is that i'd have elated if they'd hired Nolan as HC with the provision he'd keep Dennison and Bates. lol

That's what I wanted.
Defensive minded coach who would leave the offensive staff and roster intact.
So much for that and at least the next two seasons!

DarkHorse30
09-01-2009, 04:21 PM
The better question is who cares that cutler got upset? What does that have to do with football? This team showed that it has no idea how to deal with players. There was no reason to trade cutler. Why don't you explain how he hurt the team by being a baby...

I can easily show you how mcdaniels hurt the team when he acted like a baby. Of course, that is acceptable from the guys running the team right? Immature players ruin the team but immature front office make the team its best? What?

You're blaming the reaction of ONE crybaby on the new coach? Are you insane?

jhns
09-01-2009, 04:23 PM
You're blaming the reaction of ONE crybaby on the new coach? Are you insane?

I don't get what you are saying.

summerdenver
09-01-2009, 04:35 PM
So McDaniels talked to Cassel.....WHO CARES? There wasn't a trade, and in fact KC paid Cassel a boatload of cash to go to the chiefs. Non issue? Not according to the whine king. For a QB that choked away his first chance at a playoff game to be so high and mighty......what kind of a dirtbag QB ****s on a rook coach like that? The guy needed his diaper changed and mommy and daddy were on vacation.

I don't get why fans CONTINUE to make excuses for Cutler's hissy fit. The guy DIDN'T want to be in Denver, so he cried like a little baby until they traded him. Blaming it on McDaniels talking to Cassel is laughable. What would be on the "don't do this or it will upset Jay" list next?

You are ignoring facts here and thinking emotionally. It is not a question of me supporitng cutler but pointing out facts

This is applicable even if it is some other player. Lets say the same thing happenned with a non-star like like Patrick Ramsey and put yourself in his shoes. You find out that your team tried to trade you and said point blank to your face that its business as far as they are concerned. You find out that Tennesse is open to giving you a contract, why would you want to come back? especially if the previous team is playing hardball for egotistical reasons.

when you are a HC you need to bring along players. Leave Cutler form the picture and think objectively, does it not bother you that the new coach tried to replace starter on the team without even seeing him play once with someone from his old team???????

DarkHorse30
09-01-2009, 06:14 PM
You are ignoring facts here and thinking emotionally. It is not a question of me supporitng cutler but pointing out facts

This is applicable even if it is some other player. Lets say the same thing happenned with a non-star like like Patrick Ramsey and put yourself in his shoes. You find out that your team tried to trade you......

Fail. Talking to his former QB, who he trained, is not a trade attempt. You guys can dress this up as a diss on Cutler, but it isn't.

Cutler has a problem with his mouth, and his head. His hissyfits against Rivers are the laughable proof.

Is it plausible that Cutler overreacted, since he is a bit of a head case, when McDaniels TALKED to his former QB? Not a trade, but Cutler has succeeded in convincing his minions (yourself included) that McDaniels dissed him. Sorry, I'm not buying it......there is reasonable doubt that a trade was "tried".....

broncocalijohn
09-02-2009, 12:23 PM
This is hilarious. People in your camp are trying to justify 4-12 that they anticipate will happen this year, yet youre saying 8-8 is unacceptable? LOL. OK.

U r pretty dense. 8 and 8 is unacceptable now in your camp, not mine. .500 record is based on 3 years not one. This season, regardless of who was our coach, was going to have a tough time scratching a .500 record with the schedule. I am looking at a much improved record and team over 3 seasons. You had your 3 seasons and got us .500 so we are out to beat that average play. Got it? You bold shaet but you really dont read it. Try again doomsdayer.

bendog
09-02-2009, 12:54 PM
I don't understand why people keep going back to the Cassel thing. That wasn't it. It was that Cutler thought McDaniels was telling him that even though he fired bates, AFTER BOWLEN TOLD CUTLER THAT WOULDN'T HAPPEN, McDaniels was telling Cutler that he took the job in part because he wanted to see what he could do with Cutler's talent. Then, at the same time McDaniels was saying that, McDaniels was talking with NE, and apparantly TB, about a deal moving Cutler out and brining in Cassel.

What Cutler said pissed him off irrevocably was the double speak. When they had the last meeting, according to Cutler, McDaniels was then saying if he thought trading Cutler was in the teams best interests they'd trade him. Cutler went into the meeting expecting to be told he was the broncos QB for the forseeable future, and McDaniels was committed to tailoring the offense to him. It's possible, imo, McDaniels said that a trade was always possible. That's simply honesty. But, McDaniels in turn said he never said he was interested in trading Cutler for picks. Assuming both guys told essentially the truth, and I think they did, McDaniels somehow failed to communicate that any trade was unforseeable, because he was not interested in coaching any qb other than Cutler.

It's clear that Cutler's final take was "so fine, this is a business with no loyalty, but you're not making a commitment to giving me the tools and team to win, so I don't trust you. Trade me."

Bash on Cutler all you want. He's a petulant kind of guy with an edge. Everybody loves him when he calls out BM, but when he calls out McDaniels for not being up front - and Daniels wasn't up front when he told Cutler that Cutler was one of the reasons he wanted the job, then tried to land Cassel - Cutler's a bad guy. McDaniels screwed the pooch when he didn't acknowledge that he had lied and then failed to convince Cutler he was his qb.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3983805

It's not that I like Cutler and don't like McDaniels or firing Shanny. I'm for whatever makes Den a better team. But this didn't make denver a better team. Any chance of that even remotely occuring died with the A.Smith draft pick.

summerdenver
09-02-2009, 01:02 PM
Fail. Talking to his former QB, who he trained, is not a trade attempt.

First of all calm down. We can disagree and should still be able discuss.

Coming back to topic, even Rodney Harrison said it on National TV that it was McDaniels ego and his desire to get his own guy that caused this what more proof are you going to get? A video recording of McDainels taling trade? Where are we going to get that? I will tell you what, looking at how the Broncos changed their position since the news broke out

i. No comment
ii. We are not trading Jay Cutler
iii. We only receieved calls but had no discussions and we told them categorically that we will not trade him
iv. We recieved calls and the discussions did not go further.
v. It was Jay Cutler who askled to be traded when Shanahan was fired
v. We talked about three team trade involviong Cassel and Cutler but were late to the party.
vii. We are going to trade Jay becuase he is not returning our calls
vi. Joe Ellis COO of Broncos categorically denied that Jay asked for trade on fm 105.3.
vii. Now Rick Reily reports that Jay returned calls of Bowlen.

viii. To be continued ...

At this rate i predict that before the end of the year some reporter like Jay Glazer with no affiliations to Broncos will expose clearly that Broncos were proactively treid to trade Cutler. Just saying ....

bendog
09-02-2009, 01:24 PM
I don't think you can legitimately bag on McDaniel for looking bringing in Cassel. You can maybe bag on him for being a crappy judge of talent, but we'll have to see if Cassel can really play.

But I also don't see how anyone can bag on Cutler for being pissed that his position coach gets fired after he was told that wouldn't happen; McDaniels tells him 'oh, Jay, you're my guy' while at the same time he's trying to trade Cutler. Part of being HC/OC is getting the qb to buy into the scheme. See, eg Holmgren and Farve; Shanny and Young and Elway; Payaton and Dungy; Ried and McNabb; Coughlin and Eli .... There's a degree of trust in all those situations that the coach is going to behave predictably.

However, there is also the view that no1 pick qb's get paid a hell of a lot of money in exchange for not getting to move from one team to another. How'd you feel about this team if they had Cutler, Knowshon and A. Smith and no no1 next year. I'd be cautiously optimistic that they'd challange for a wild card, and maybe do more if SD fell apart.

I'm pissed that McDaniels didn't get past his initial lie to give Cutler enough, and that somehow the broncos failed to use the players' contract to retain the guy. They had the power to do it, but they chose not too. So, imo, it's clear that McDaniels wasn't really interested. We'll see how it works out for him. (-:

WolfpackGuy
09-02-2009, 01:33 PM
I don't think you can legitimately bag on McDaniel for looking bringing in Cassel. You can maybe bag on him for being a crappy judge of talent, but we'll have to see if Cassel can really play.

He's just goin to be a $63 million dollar tackling dummy behind the Cheaps line.

barryr
09-02-2009, 01:34 PM
I'm willing to give McDaniels a chance before anything else. He inherited a bad football team.

People apparently forget Shanahan went 8-8 his first year as coach with the Broncos and if I remember correctly, had to win their last game or 2 that year to just get to .500. Shanahan also inherited a bad team and I was willing to give him time then too.

Bottom line is the Broncos have only like 4 starters back on defense this year and the rest of the guys they got rid of are not exactly being gobbled up by teams to play key roles for their teams. That says it all right there.

bendog
09-02-2009, 01:39 PM
Shanahan "inherited a bad team?"

Den's offensive cupboard was bear when Shanahan got fired?

WolfpackGuy
09-02-2009, 01:44 PM
I'm willing to give McDaniels a chance before anything else. He inherited a bad football team.

He inherited a bad defense and bad kick coverage units.
He screwed up the offense all by himself.

Broncos4tw
09-02-2009, 01:52 PM
Our offense did not have "huge problems." It had:

RB issues - how many RBs did we have on IR? 6? That's a huge problem but unpreventable.

Turnovers: This really wasn't a huge problem. We didn't turn the ball over any more than any team that went deep into the playoffs. The difference was that our defense never got it back, unlike those other teams. That was a DEFENSIVE issue. 6 ints on the year is not doing your QB any favors.

Red zone offense: This is the ONLY real issue with the team. And the RB issue contributed heavily to this. As well as some shoddy playcalling that often baffled me. This is seriously the only major issue that needed to be addressed.

So instead of addressing that issue, they overhauled the offense like it was 30th in the league or something. It wasn't. You are delusional if you thought our offense was weak. If we had: Cutler, Marshall, Royal, non-injured, solid starting RB and a better line / redzone plan, we'd be tops in offense imo.

But they overhauled the offense even moreso than the defense! The defense needed the major overhaul.

I think McD WILL be a good coach one day. A really good one. It's a real pity we will have to suffer through his learning years though. You know.. sort of like we had to do with Cutler before we got rid of him. doh.

bendog
09-02-2009, 02:06 PM
I agree that McDaniels may be a good coach somewhere in the future.

And oddly, it seems to me, this isn't unlike Shanny in Oak. Shanny went in and progressed to breaking guys' balls. Rightfully so in a lot of instances, and A$ to this day hasn't ridden his lockerroom of his meddlesome cancer inducing presence. I think Den had sort of a "cult of personality" with Shanny. He was tossing DC's under the bus, having no clue as to personnel to fit schemes, brining in awful people like T.Henry, letting Marshall get away with off the field crap.....

But from the first time I saw McDaniels I had a bad feeling. He may learn to curb his Napolean complex.

summerdenver
09-02-2009, 02:18 PM
I don't think you can legitimately bag on McDaniel for looking bringing in Cassel. (-:

I can understand if he ran the current incumbent through a training camp or atleast some practices and decided that he would want a improvement. But he did not even want to see what he has in the current QB before replace him with his guy?

If he wants to work with only his guys, why take this job at all? Stay in NE and one of these days hoodie will handover the keys to you. If you don't want to wait then take a total rebuilding job like Det or KC where he can bring his own guys replace the whole systems as much as he wants. Its not like one fine morning Pat Bowlen sprung a surprise on him saying now Cutler will be your QB. I understand Cutler has faults but so is every QB not named Brady and Manning. If you are not prepared to coach a player at a position which is supposed to be your speciality, some thing is wrong there.

IMO, he is just too egotistical and wants everything to go his way. I will say this before and say this again. He will either be brilliant coach who will change the dynamics of NFL or flop miserably and there is no middle ground. Odds are on the later because we see lot more failures than super successes in nfl.

bendog
09-02-2009, 02:49 PM
McDaniels wanted to be a head coach. That job wasn't open in NE, so he had to get a job elsewhere.

I look at it a little differently than you. First off, McDaniels was put in a bad position by Bowlen saying bates would stay. McDaniels was a qb coach first and OC second. That was essentially the same for Bates, who was doing the offensive scripting with Dennison by the end of 2008.

So, he then tells Cutler that one of the reasons he wanted the Den job was to work with cutler. That may have been horse****, but i don't think so. I think it's safe to say that coming into Den in 08 looked a lot better than Detroit's HC gig. The cupboard was pretty well stocked. Running back's an issue, but overall ... Den was 3rd in total offense, as I recall.

McDaniels had no reason to need to see Cutler in a preseason. He's got all the game discs in the world, and is a professional coach. If he can't evaluate Cassel v. Cutler, he's incompetent, but seeing a preseason wouldn't change that.

I have no way to say how good Cassel could have been with Den's offensive talent. KC is pretty awful. people will say Brady is a system guy, but in his prime he was dead accurate with the midrange stuff. It wasn't a dink and donk WC think. The guy could hum it. Personally, imo, if it aint' broke, don't mess with it, so the whole notion was a bit weak, imo. But, you know, you get a guy like Brady - who while he'll prolly be HOF was not very mobile, didn't have the best arm, but happened to find the best team at the time, and rode the horse .... like Aikman - and get an extra first round pick plus another defender .... the defense might get better fast.

I don't think it was ego so much. All NFL coaches have egos the size of Trump's. Rather, imo, it was insecurity. All he had to do was say "yeah Jay, I was looking at Cassel at the same time I told you I wasn't, and I apologize and it won't happen again, you have my word and I'll say it to the media if you want. I was trying to see if the team could be better. But, I promise you that there's nobody we could possibly get, aside from Cassel, who I think can improve the team, and you have my personal guarnatee that there's no trading you unless there's soem contractural issue when your extension is due. Now get into mini camp adn stop drinking like Orten cause your a diabetic for god's sake."

It seems to me that he was just in over his head and was afraid of looking like a weak fool, which is of course how he looks.

Pick Six
09-02-2009, 03:03 PM
I don't have to trust him. Bowlen has to trust him, as the guy who pays his salary...

27atwater
09-02-2009, 03:38 PM
I have faith in him because the country club mentality is gone. Everyone has to work for their spot. He will let the defensive folks make the defensive decisions. He doesn't need stars to be effective. I'm giving him a shot.

tsiguy96
10-14-2009, 11:07 PM
I still can't believe so many are supporting mcdaniels. Are you serious? You think these are good decisions? You people actually want these kind of decisions to continue? Denver fans have to be some of the least knowledgable football fans in this sport. At least raider and lions fans can see what is happening with those teams.

You all will see how dumb this is and how horrible this offseason has been. I'm not sure why some of you need years to figure it out. The rest of the world can see it. Mcd has no clue what he is doing, xanders has no clue what he is doing, ellis doesn't even know what a football is, and bowlen has admitted that he doesn't know what he is doing (and that is why he leaves decisions to those that he payed to make them).

I love that people actually think they are being good fans. It is like cheering for cancer because your mom has it. She has it so I will support it until I see it kill her. If she isn't actually dead yet, why would I not support it? Oh right, I can use my head and see that it is killing her.....

yea!!! you got it homey!!!

baja
10-14-2009, 11:17 PM
yea!!! you got it homey!!!

Boy am I glad I didn't author anything like that.

Spider
10-15-2009, 12:29 AM
Boy am I glad I didn't author anything like that.

LOL u and me both

Popps
10-15-2009, 02:36 AM
Wow, this is a classic thread-bump.

I can't believe the idiocy that ran rampant this off-season.

Some have gone, some have eaten crow gracefully and some are still trying to spin it into something other than what it was... pure silliness before ever allowing this guy to coach a single game.

cutthemdown
10-15-2009, 04:13 AM
These old threads are funny. Mcdaniels impressed me from the start. I remember watching pats games last couple yrs thinking man this team has some slick play calling. I didn't know at the time that was Mcdaniels but after he was mentioned for his job, and I found out this is the kid been running NE offense, I was like hell friggin yeah.

He's the closest thing to a young Shannahan I have ever seen.

Gcver2ver3
10-15-2009, 06:40 AM
wow, that dude really compared McD to mother killing cancer?...

i had been one of the McD/Orton supporters from the beginning...

i could bump countless debates i had with the idiot Broncos fans that didn't look at the whole picture and just followed along with the national media perception...

but i haven't even posted much lately...i'm just glad McD/Orton is showing them all up, like i knew they would...but i have enjoyed reading some of the crow eating...

BroncoInSkinland
10-15-2009, 06:44 AM
I didn't believe in McDaniels ability to turn us into a consistant winning football team until the Dallas win, but I am glad I didn't go as overboard as some of the posts here about my concerns. As of right now, the single biggest reason I think he will continue to win many games for us is the never say die nature of this team. The attitudes are so positive it shows through the TV screen on Sundays. Now I am sorry I doubted, but there were some valid reasons for people to question through the off season.

Bronco Boy
10-15-2009, 07:21 AM
I guess reserving judgement until the guy has actually coached a game that matters would be out of the question.

tsk tsk

TonyR
10-15-2009, 07:28 AM
...pure silliness before ever allowing this guy to coach a single game.

And the really sad thing is that in a lot of cases it's not just "silliness". These guys were adamant that we were doomed. They had it all figured out. Let's hope some of them have learned a lesson but I won't hold my breath.

Steve Sewell
10-15-2009, 08:39 AM
Boy am I glad I didn't author anything like that.

Yeah jhns is pretty retarded.

Especially satisfying is the fact that he tried to insult the overall football acumen of Bronco fans in general.

I've written this plenty of times and I'll write it again:

Under Bowlen, the Broncos have won 5 AFC Championships and 2 Super Bowls, and have had a total of 4 losing seasons in 25 years.

Its just shocking that people with the ability to create a username and password think they have the football authority to shout down people like Bowlen, Ellis, McDaniels, et. al. on the forums.

TailgateNut
10-15-2009, 09:09 AM
Yeah jhns is pretty retarded.

Especially satisfying is the fact that he tried to insult the overall football acumen of Bronco fans in general.

.

He's a genius, in his own (miniscule) mind.:spit:

baja
10-15-2009, 09:28 AM
Yeah jhns is pretty retarded.

Especially satisfying is the fact that he tried to insult the overall football acumen of Bronco fans in general.

I've written this plenty of times and I'll write it again:

Under Bowlen, the Broncos have won 5 AFC Championships and 2 Super Bowls, and have had a total of 4 losing seasons in 25 years.

Its just shocking that people with the ability to create a username and password think they have the football authority to shout down people like Bowlen, Ellis, McDaniels, et. al. on the forums.

Odd that he hasn't been around lately. Hilarious!

TailgateNut
10-15-2009, 09:38 AM
Odd that he hasn't been around lately. Hilarious!


I made him go away with the "iggy button".:thanku:


I also have noticed that BF7 is having a lot of conversations with himself.;D

BroncoInSkinland
10-15-2009, 09:46 AM
I made him go away with the "iggy button".:thanku:


I also have noticed that BF7 is having a lot of conversations with himself.;D

BF7 actually appologized and said he was wrong about Orton, and put something in his user title to the effect. He's still complaining about 19 pts/game, but it is getting a bit better. The extremes are coming back to center a bit. He is still calling you names, but some people can't help being douches, at least he is returning to being a Bronco fan douche. ;D

tsiguy96
10-15-2009, 09:50 AM
BF7 actually appologized and said he was wrong about Orton, and put something in his user title to the effect. He's still complaining about 19 pts/game, but it is getting a bit better. The extremes are coming back to center a bit. He is still calling you names, but some people can't help being douches, at least he is returning to being a Bronco fan douche. ;D

i dont understnad why people cant see they are progressing every single game, against the pats they were golden, maybe they only put up 20 but its the progress that each game brings that should make everyone happy.

Mr. Elway
10-15-2009, 09:55 AM
jhns has come around a lot too, and made fun of some of his own posts.

I think it's fun to bump some of these posts and have a go at people who were so very adament yet so very wrong, but getting all high and mighty and casting judgement over whether or not so-and-so is acting sufficiently humbled is just as annoying.

BroncoInSkinland
10-15-2009, 09:59 AM
i dont understnad why people cant see they are progressing every single game, against the pats they were golden, maybe they only put up 20 but its the progress that each game brings that should make everyone happy.

I tend to agree, I think the O's best games are still ahead of them. But when you see things like the Giants hanging 40 some points on the Raiders, it does raise questions as to why our "stacked" offense with all the weapons we have can't do the same. I think the answer lies in that blowouts are most often a product of one of the teams giving up.

The Raiders knew the Giants were the better team, and once they got out front, NY was able to just run away with the game and the Raiders defense collapsed. Meanwhile, the Raiders and the Browns had heard all off season how bad the Broncos were going to be, in thier eyes it was a game they could win. As a result, when the Broncos got ahead, the defenses didn't give up, they dug a bit deeper.

This can actually be viewed as a positive, knowing that the Broncos played complete games against determined opponents for a full four quarters and still convincingly won twice. The blowouts will come eventually I think, but in the meantime I will just keep smiling as close, hard fought W's keep piling up.

tsiguy96
10-15-2009, 10:02 AM
blowouts are hte product of one team being pretty bad and being forced into being one dimensional. weve done that to two bad teams this year, and won by over 20 each time. dunno how thats not good enough for some people. offense will improve, especially given how complex this system is and orton even said hes getting better with it each week as is the entire offense. remember, brand new year in brand new offense for nearly every starter on offense.

alkemical
10-15-2009, 10:04 AM
I tend to agree, I think the O's best games are still ahead of them. But when you see things like the Giants hanging 40 some points on the Raiders, it does raise questions as to why our "stacked" offense with all the weapons we have can't do the same. I think the answer lies in that blowouts are most often a product of one of the teams giving up.

The Raiders knew the Giants were the better team, and once they got out front, NY was able to just run away with the game and the Raiders defense collapsed. Meanwhile, the Raiders and the Browns had heard all off season how bad the Broncos were going to be, in thier eyes it was a game they could win. As a result, when the Broncos got ahead, the defenses didn't give up, they dug a bit deeper.

This can actually be viewed as a positive, knowing that the Broncos played complete games against determined opponents for a full four quarters and still convincingly won twice. The blowouts will come eventually I think, but in the meantime I will just keep smiling as close, hard fought W's keep piling up.


And that orton isn't an elite QB.

TailgateNut
10-15-2009, 10:06 AM
BF7 actually appologized and said he was wrong about Orton, and put something in his user title to the effect. He's still complaining about 19 pts/game, but it is getting a bit better. The extremes are coming back to center a bit. He is still calling you names, but some people can't help being douches, at least he is returning to being a Bronco fan douche. ;D


I wrote off a lot of the posters' negative comments to ignorance, hatred of the off-season changes, and reluctance to accept change, but there are the select few who are in, and will remain in the " ARROGANT ASSHOLES" category.

BroncoInSkinland
10-15-2009, 10:09 AM
And that orton isn't an elite QB.

Fair enough, though the jury could still be out on that one if he keeps up the pace he has set thus far this season. I actually think Orton has been looking a LOT like Eli so far. Eli isn't the flashiest of QB's and was held in pretty low regard until he took his team to the superbowl. He isn't always pretty in the way he wins games, but much like Orton, he just manages to win them with the support of his team. Guys do things like pulling last second catches off the tops of their helmets, or making 5 defenders miss in the middle of the field. Now Orton has a long way to go until he can really be included in that kind of company, and three months ago, I never would have considered it,but he HAS been giving us all some food for thought now hasn't he?

BroncoInSkinland
10-15-2009, 10:11 AM
I wrote off a lot of the posters' negative comments to ignorance, hatred of the off-season changes, and reluctance to accept change, but there are the select few who are in, and will remain in the " ARROGANT a-holeS" category.

And that is most certainly your right, just giving you the update on him. ;D

TailgateNut
10-15-2009, 10:18 AM
And that is most certainly your right, just giving you the update on him. ;D

I'd rather get updates on the daily feeding habits of the elusive Prebble Mouse.:thanku:

Paladin
10-15-2009, 10:29 AM
I wrote off a lot of the posters' negative comments to ignorance, hatred of the off-season changes, and reluctance to accept change, but there are the select few who are in, and will remain in the " ARROGANT a-holeS" category.

Yeah. I know a couple of them, too.

HAT
10-15-2009, 10:34 AM
The extremes are coming back to center a bit.

Mostly....But it's still comical to watch rasta resisiting and grasping at straws.

He went from....They're doomed > They're lucky > They haven't played anyone > They'd be better with Cut > Orton sucks > They are only winning b/c Shanny left solid WR's and OL > and finally his newest agenda of the week.....They'd be better if Hillis was playing more.

Ironlung
10-15-2009, 10:51 AM
Mostly....But it's still comical to watch rasta resisiting and grasping at straws.

He went from....They're doomed > They're lucky > They haven't played anyone > They'd be better with Cut > Orton sucks > They are only winning b/c Shanny left solid WR's and OL > and finally his newest agenda of the week.....They'd be better if Hillis was playing more.

It is comical. Who woulda thought it would be so hard for a guy to give his favorite team a little credit?

BroncoInSkinland
10-15-2009, 11:55 AM
Mostly....But it's still comical to watch rasta resisiting and grasping at straws.

He went from....They're doomed > They're lucky > They haven't played anyone > They'd be better with Cut > Orton sucks > They are only winning b/c Shanny left solid WR's and OL > and finally his newest agenda of the week.....They'd be better if Hillis was playing more.

Cool, he gets shut down so often, Karma dictates that that gives Hillis a pretty good shot at getting a few carries this week. I like Hillis a lot, and tend to think he is underutilized. But once again whatever puts up the W's is fine by me :)