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View Full Version : Thank god we now know what really happened in the Cutler fiasco


ZONA
08-31-2009, 11:59 AM
Finally we can put this thing to rest. No more speculation, no more second guessing, we now know exactly what happened and it came right from Cutler's own mouth.

Cutler admits that there was never any real blow up between him and Josh. He was unhappy about the trade rumors and in their face to face meeting, was willing to finally put that aside if Josh would assure him that he would not trade him in the future. This is where the final ties were broken. Josh, as any coach would have done basically said I can't guarantee that, nobody is "untradable" and that wasn't good enough for Cutler so he wanted out for sure at that moment. Slice it up how you want and pick a side but it's finally nice to know what went down for real.

I have a hard time understanding why the Broncos gave in to Jay's request, he was under contract and they should have just told him too bad. But I can also see the side of a coach and organization saying to the player, you don't dictate to us if we can trade you or not, no player is above the team. I mean, you would have to check yourself if you're the owner and that's Brady or Manning saying that but Cutler hasn't done anything yet in the NFL to the level of those guys and certainly not to the point where he can go to the coach and owner and tell them how to run things.

Bottom line it's unfortunate how this all went down but moving forward is needed for both Cutler and the Broncos. They both seem to be doing just that, if only the whiners here could do the same.

Taco John
08-31-2009, 12:02 PM
Is there a link or something that you forgot to include?

~Crash~
08-31-2009, 12:02 PM
Finally we can put this thing to rest. No more speculation, no more second guessing, we now know exactly what happened and it came right from Cutler's own mouth.

Cutler admits that there was never any real blow up between him and Josh. He was unhappy about the trade rumors and in their face to face meeting, was willing to finally put that aside if Josh would assure him that he would not trade him in the future. This is where the final ties were broken. Josh, as any coach would have done basically said I can't guarantee that, nobody is "untradable" and that wasn't good enough for Cutler so he wanted out for sure at that moment. Slice it up how you want and pick a side but it's finally nice to know what went down for real.

I have a hard time understanding why the Broncos gave in to Jay's request, he was under contract and they should have just told him too bad. But I can also see the side of a coach and organization saying to the player, you don't dictate to us if we can trade you or not, no player is above the team. I mean, you would have to check yourself if you're the owner and that's Brady or Manning saying that but Cutler hasn't done anything yet in the NFL to the level of those guys and certainly not to the point where he can go to the coach and owner and tell them how to run things.

Bottom line it's unfortunate how this all went down but moving forward is needed for both Cutler and the Broncos. They both seem to be doing just that, if only the whiners here could do the same.

and ?

broncosteven
08-31-2009, 12:03 PM
Did anyone hear Rodney Harrison during the late 3rd or early 4th Quarter?

He said a lot about the Broncos HC and his thoughts on how it went down. He said some very clear, direct stuff that in my mind hit the nail on the head.

~Crash~
08-31-2009, 12:04 PM
Is there a link or something that you forgot to include?

this was a canned response by jay last night.

Man-Goblin
08-31-2009, 12:05 PM
Finally we can put this thing to rest. No more speculation, no more second guessing, we now know exactly what happened and it came right from Cutler's own mouth.

Cutler admits that there was never any real blow up between him and Josh. He was unhappy about the trade rumors and in their face to face meeting, was willing to finally put that aside if Josh would assure him that he would not trade him in the future. This is where the final ties were broken. Josh, as any coach would have done basically said I can't guarantee that, nobody is "untradable" and that wasn't good enough for Cutler so he wanted out for sure at that moment. Slice it up how you want and pick a side but it's finally nice to know what went down for real.

I have a hard time understanding why the Broncos gave in to Jay's request, he was under contract and they should have just told him too bad. But I can also see the side of a coach and organization saying to the player, you don't dictate to us if we can trade you or not, no player is above the team. I mean, you would have to check yourself if you're the owner and that's Brady or Manning saying that but Cutler hasn't done anything yet in the NFL to the level of those guys and certainly not to the point where he can go to the coach and owner and tell them how to run things.

Bottom line it's unfortunate how this all went down but moving forward is needed for both Cutler and the Broncos. They both seem to be doing just that, if only the whiners here could do the same.

Very simply, they gave into his request because Bowlen was insulted and he made it personal. He let his anger cloud his judgement when they should have at least waited until the draft and see if everything could be resolved.

~Crash~
08-31-2009, 12:06 PM
it still is not a good answer . it is a lets move on answer , and I agree ..There is more but who cares at this point I don't.

Punisher
08-31-2009, 12:06 PM
Hes Gone ok stop please stop the pain!

Please

~Crash~
08-31-2009, 12:08 PM
there were reports out that the broncos did not think he was a franchise QB . Simple really .

Smiling Assassin27
08-31-2009, 12:10 PM
Any coach worth his salt would take the deal with Cutler, promise not to trade him, then crawfish when you get a deal that you like...

rastaman
08-31-2009, 12:14 PM
Hes Gone ok stop please stop the pain!

Please

Cutler is going to have a 15-16 year career! So long as Cutler is in the NFL the debate will continue. Get over yourself.:sunshine:

ChSuperStar
08-31-2009, 12:15 PM
Anyone who feels it was good for this team to let go cutler.. last night was the answer. Next decade we will have to live with the pain of letting go a franchise QB with nothing to show for.

I dont think either picks we got.. smith or ayers will be as great as cutler will be in the next 10 years.

ZONA
08-31-2009, 12:24 PM
Any coach worth his salt would take the deal with Cutler, promise not to trade him, then crawfish when you get a deal that you like...

Yeah, promise not to trade him and let the player know that he is really the one running things around here. Next, it will be in the game and the coach calls a play and the player goes, uh I don't think so, I think I'm gonna run this play. Reports came from Chicago that Cutler, even though only being there for only a few weeks at that time, wanted to be in on the personnel decisions of the team. Do you see where all that leads to?

f Cutler really wanted to stay, he should have just got over the personal feelings about the trade rumors and moved on (as he said he was ready to), he should have just done that and forgot about trying to challenge the the Broncos FO with that "you can't trade me" crap. I mean, yeah, if that's Brady going to the FO after winning 3 Superbowls, it is a little different.

gunns
08-31-2009, 12:28 PM
I have a hard time understanding why the Broncos gave in to Jay's request, he was under contract and they should have just told him too bad.

Bowlen can't remember.

Where is this link? And I tend to think at this late date, the incident is smoothed over. We will probably never know what really happened.

Punisher
08-31-2009, 12:29 PM
Cutler is going to have a 15-16 year career! So long as Cutler is in the NFL the debate will continue. Get over yourself.:sunshine:

:hitself::hitself::hitself::hitself::hitself:

Eldorado
08-31-2009, 12:31 PM
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii237/cbc82/GIF_saftey_guy_suicide.gif

theAPAOps5
08-31-2009, 12:32 PM
Is there a link or something that you forgot to include?

Anyone who watched the game saw it. I think NFL gets mad at video being linked and shown on websites so I wouldn't ask for that if I were you.....

Punisher
08-31-2009, 12:33 PM
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii237/cbc82/GIF_saftey_guy_suicide.gif

2nd

Gort
08-31-2009, 12:40 PM
I have a hard time understanding why the Broncos gave in to Jay's request, he was under contract and they should have just told him too bad.

and what if Cutler held out and did not come to camp? how do your prepare for a season with a new coach and new scheme and your #1 QB nowhere to be found? once they knew he was going to be unhappy and make things difficult, they had to get rid of him. the QB is more central to implementing the offense than a WR, which is something Marshall doesn't understand. but in the case of Cutler, once he'd burned the bridges (and make no mistake, Cutler was the one holding the matchbook in all of this), he had to go. better to do it before camp and before the draft than to wait until camp and see if he was going to show up or not.

Jesterhole
08-31-2009, 12:46 PM
McD tried to play like a bad ass and lost Cutler. Bowlen then got personally insulted, and since he was feeling super powerful after getting rid of Shanhan, he decided to get rid of our best player, too.

In the end, our FO screwed the pooch, and now we are stuck in a complete rebuild with Orton as our QB.

Things could not have gone worse this off season.

Gort
08-31-2009, 12:54 PM
McD tried to play like a bad ass and lost Cutler. Bowlen then got personally insulted, and since he was feeling super powerful after getting rid of Shanhan, he decided to get rid of our best player, too.

In the end, our FO screwed the pooch, and now we are stuck in a complete rebuild with Orton as our QB.

Things could not have gone worse this off season.

that's just dumb. what's Bowlen supposed to do? bend over and say "thank you Jay, may i have another one?"

Bowlen signs the paychecks. everybody works for him. his employee was insubordinate. this employee had been treated VERY well by him and paid VERY well. that's more than insubordination... that's betrayal. Cutler had to go. he's a triple-chinned piece of s-h-i-t-e. good riddance.

Cutler hasn't accomplished anything yet. but he thinks he's the #1 QB in the game. he's another Jeff George. he'll be a flop in Chicago and 3 years from now, Bears fans will have grown weary of his act and his INTs in the redzone.

rastaman
08-31-2009, 12:58 PM
Anyone who feels it was good for this team to let go cutler.. last night was the answer. Next decade we will have to live with the pain of letting go a franchise QB with nothing to show for.

I dont think either picks we got.. smith or ayers will be as great as cutler will be in the next 10 years.

The only way to correct letting Cutler go is to replace Cutler with another Franchise caliber QB. Ayers and Moreno aren't Franchise QB's.

rastaman
08-31-2009, 01:00 PM
that's just dumb. what's Bowlen supposed to do? bend over and say "thank you Jay, may i have another one?"

Bowlen signs the paychecks. everybody works for him. his employee was insubordinate. this employee had been treated VERY well by him and paid VERY well. that's more than insubordination... that's betrayal. Cutler had to go. he's a triple-chinned piece of s-h-i-t-e. good riddance.

Cutler hasn't accomplished anything yet. but he thinks he's the #1 QB in the game. he's another Jeff George. he'll be a flop in Chicago and 3 years from now, Bears fans will have grown weary of his act and his INTs in the redzone.

Three years from now.....who will the Broncos QB and HC be?

gyldenlove
08-31-2009, 01:02 PM
that's just dumb. what's Bowlen supposed to do? bend over and say "thank you Jay, may i have another one?"

Bowlen signs the paychecks. everybody works for him. his employee was insubordinate. this employee had been treated VERY well by him and paid VERY well. that's more than insubordination... that's betrayal. Cutler had to go. he's a triple-chinned piece of s-h-i-t-e. good riddance.

Cutler hasn't accomplished anything yet. but he thinks he's the #1 QB in the game. he's another Jeff George. he'll be a flop in Chicago and 3 years from now, Bears fans will have grown weary of his act and his INTs in the redzone.

Bowlen put his pride over the success of his business, that is his right, he owns the show, but may not be the wisest thing to do.

You really worked yourself up over that one didn't you? take a chill-pill and get your blood pressure back down, then think rationally about it for a sec and realize that there is a reason the organization has a general manager, a director of pro personel and a COO, that way Bowlen doesn't have to get involved in player negotiations and relations, which is frankly not something he has experience or expertise in.

Gort
08-31-2009, 01:03 PM
Three years from now.....who will the Broncos QB and HC be?

i don't think Orton is anything more than a placeholder, but i fully expect McD to be here in 2012. i also expect the Broncos to have more playoffs games and wins by then than Cutler and the Chicago Bears.

why don't you just admit that you have a mancrush on Cutler and follow him over to a Bears forum. you're clearly not a broncos fan.

rastaman
08-31-2009, 01:05 PM
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii237/cbc82/GIF_saftey_guy_suicide.gif

Which is it "How the 09 season will go for Denver" or "How McDaniel's tenure ends in Denver"!

Jason in LA
08-31-2009, 01:06 PM
Yeah, Cutler and the Broncos are moving on. Cutler most likely to the playoffs because he's finally playing with a good defense, and the Broncos most likely to a top 10 pick in next year's draft. Oh wait, they traded that pick away for a second rounder. Damn this sucks.

Gort
08-31-2009, 01:09 PM
Bowlen put his pride over the success of his business, that is his right, he owns the show, but may not be the wisest thing to do.

You really worked yourself up over that one didn't you? take a chill-pill and get your blood pressure back down, then think rationally about it for a sec and realize that there is a reason the organization has a general manager, a director of pro personel and a COO, that way Bowlen doesn't have to get involved in player negotiations and relations, which is frankly not something he has experience or expertise in.

pride over success? BS. 17-20 is not the record of a successful QB.

is this franchise the Denver Jay Cutlers or the Denver Broncos?

Jay Cutler admitted that expected to be treated in a manner that no other player would expect. Cutler wanted a guarantee that he would not ever be mentioned in a trade without his permission. no other player is dumb enough to expect or ask for that. Cutler was arrogant enough to do both... ask for and expect it.

so in his mind, he's above everyone else. and when his demand was not met, he pouted and lied and manipulated his way out of town. good for McD. good for the Broncos. ultimately good for Bowlen's bottom line.

rastaman
08-31-2009, 01:09 PM
:hitself::hitself::hitself::hitself::hitself:

Why do you inflict personal physical harm on yourself. Please seek medical help! :sunshine:

ZONA
08-31-2009, 01:26 PM
I still think Bowlen should have kept Cutler even if it meant a disgruntled QB for awhile. I think it would have eventually smoothed over in time. For all those saying it was a "trust" issue have been proven wrong. Jay was ready to smooth things over if the Broncos treated him like no other player, to never even discuss his name in a trade. Not that they would have done that but the fact that a player goes to the FO and gives a demand like that could have been devastating for the team if the team did not get rid of him, or as I wish they would have done, told him no we're not going to say we won't ever trade you and treat you above any other player and no we are also not going to trade you. You can be pissed all you want but live with it. But if the Broncos FO just simply caved in and said yeah Jay, we won't ever do that again, so sorry, please forgive us, can you imagine if other players caught on to this, that the FO allowed Jay to make such demands, how alienated they would feel, and thus causing bigger problems?

Look, bottom line is Jay was wrong to request such demands but Bowlen should have just said tough titties son, you're not going to tell us what we can and can't do and if you're gonna be pissed then that's on you. You're our QB right now so go out and play or sit out and be fined. Either way.

barryr
08-31-2009, 01:27 PM
Trading Cutler was more Bowlen's idea than McDaniels. I think this is clear. So the Cutler fans can stop the idiotic name calling of McDaniels sometime. If want to be mad at Bowlen for it, be my guest, but being mad at McDaniels seems stupid.

Circle Orange
09-01-2009, 08:13 PM
It was difficult, really, for a hall of famer such as Cutler to put up with such a piss poor excuse of a franchise in Denver. We humbly kneel and beg his forgiveness...maybe he'll take pity on us the next time we play Chicago.

We should take lessons from Baltimore Colt and Cleveland Brown fans...they nurse a grudge to the end of time, and never let anything go. :~ohyah!:

PaintballCLE
09-01-2009, 08:15 PM
i still think the greatest part of this whole fiasco is that cutler got upset about POSSIBLY getting traded, so he demands a trade? Kind of ironic there....

Archer81
09-01-2009, 08:22 PM
It was a pissing contest between two younger men. **** happens. We would be better with Cutler here, and I believe Jay would have become better with McDaniels, but it wasnt meant to be. On to the next thing.


:Broncos:

ZONA
09-01-2009, 10:59 PM
and I believe Jay would have become better with McDaniels, but it wasnt meant to be. On to the next thing.


:Broncos:


Yeah, that totally is the one thing that I never fully understood. If Jay truly wanted to become the best player at that position, you think he would have came to terms with that. Denver has the better Offensive Line, better WR's and his numbers would have been unreal, and over time, I think the team would have been better as the defense improved. The dollars would figure to be very close in the end so that could not have been it. I think if we didn't trade him, and as time passed, Jay would have finally realized this and probably would have looked back and figured it would have been better to stay in Denver. These two (Josh & Cutler) I think could have went on to become a major force together. But, that's another story. The end.

SoCalBronco
09-01-2009, 11:08 PM
McD tried to play like a bad ass and lost Cutler. Bowlen then got personally insulted, and since he was feeling super powerful after getting rid of Shanhan, he decided to get rid of our best player, too.

In the end, our FO screwed the pooch, and now we are stuck in a complete rebuild with Orton as our QB.

Things could not have gone worse this off season.

That's pretty much the long and short of it. A disaster of biblical proportions.

Vegas_Bronco
09-01-2009, 11:15 PM
This might be the year that Portis evens the trade balance too....let's not forget to discuss that too.

ZONA
09-01-2009, 11:21 PM
Jesterhole
McD tried to play like a bad ass and lost Cutler. Bowlen then got personally insulted, and since he was feeling super powerful after getting rid of Shanhan, he decided to get rid of our best player, too.

In the end, our FO screwed the pooch, and now we are stuck in a complete rebuild with Orton as our QB.

Things could not have gone worse this off season.

I think more and more people that felt the same way as you at least now feel that Cutler also had something to do with this and he himself was acting like a badass also, trying to give the FO demands that he knew would not be granted (I'm untouchable, you can't trade me). Cutler even said he was willing to forget the trade rumor stuff and work things out but when he demanded that the team could never even discuss trading him in the future, and they of course said things can't work that way, was unwilling to continue talks to work things out and ultimately made the choice to not be here. The amount of guys who are now placing ALL the blame on McD are growing fewer and fewer because of what was said on that Sonday night game with the Bears and these new facts were found out. I still believe they should have said tough titties and said who cares what you think, we have a contract for you and you belong to us, if you don't want to play, we'll fine you. But you can't still keep bagging on Bowlen and McD only and not holding Jay accountable for any of this. Well, you can, but it doesn't hold any value now since these new facts came out.

summerdenver
09-01-2009, 11:30 PM
Jay Cutler admitted that expected to be treated in a manner that no other player would expect.

You know what dude, I can see why Cutler would ask for such an assurance, because he is dealing with a megalomaniac first time HC with a hoodie syndrome. I can't imagine him asking for Mike or Lovie or some other coach for such a guarantee. I can imagine how the conversation went.....

J.C: coach just give me your word that you don't get rid of me next time Patriots cut a backup.

Josh M: (rolling his eyes) Who do you think you are? Do you who I am? I am the greatest High school QB from Ohio. Do you know who my father is? Its Thom F$%$% Mcdaniels. Yes that guy is the greatest Head Coach in the high school football history of Ohio. I can win with you or a tackling dummy playing QB. I am the greatest mensa in this country and I even shouted at Tom Brady in a meeting. You should consider yourself lucky that I might consider coachng you.

J.C: (Turns to his left) Bus, I am done with this idiot get me out here.

P.S. Please stop the childish fan police routine.

summerdenver
09-01-2009, 11:36 PM
Jesterhole
McD tried to play like a bad ass and lost Cutler. Bowlen then got personally insulted, and since he was feeling super powerful after getting rid of Shanhan, he decided to get rid of our best player, too.

In the end, our FO screwed the pooch, and now we are stuck in a complete rebuild with Orton as our QB.

Things could not have gone worse this off season.

I think more and more people that felt the same way as you at least now feel that Cutler also had something to do with this .

Even Rodney Harrison said it yesterday that it has a lot do with the ego of Josh McDainels and his wanting his own guy - All before he even coached a single game as HC. Just saying ....

ZONA
09-01-2009, 11:43 PM
You know what dude, I can see why Cutler would ask for such an assurance, because he is dealing with a megalomaniac first time HC with a hoodie syndrome. I can't imagine him asking for Mike or Lovie or some other coach for such a guarantee. I can imagine how the conversation went.....

J.C: coach just give me your word that you don't get rid of me next time Patriots cut a backup.

Josh M: (rolling his eyes) Who do you think you are? Do you who I am? I am the greatest High school QB from Ohio. Do you know who my father is? Its Thom F$%$% Mcdaniels. Yes that guy is the greatest Head Coach in the hig scholl foot ball history Ohio. I can win with you are a dummy playing QB. I am the greatest mensa in this country and I even shouted at Tom Brady in a meeting. You should consider yourself lucky that I might consider coachng you.

J.C: (Turns to his left) Bus, I am done with this idiot get me out here.

P.S. Please stop the childish fan police routine.


Okay, so on the flip side, maybe it went down like this.


J.C. : Okay Josh, I'm not upset about the trade rumors anymore but I do have a few demands. One, and I'm not totally set on this but I would like to have some control over the personnel on this team (sound familiar). The second is that I don't want you to ever take calls or make calls that would involve trading me, even if some team offers an unbelievable deal that would make the Broncos a better team.

McD: Glad to hear your over the rumors Jay, we do have you under contract and you are the starting QB of this team, but unfortunately, we can't guarantee that we won't at least take calls from other teams. Not only do we have to always evaluate ways to improve this team but if any other players in the locker room found out that we gave you special circumstances, and they didn't get the same, we'd have mutiny on our hands. Oh yeah, and absolutely NO to the having some input on who we draft and sign.

J.C. : Fine, I can't get any special treatment then I don't want to be here. Don't try and call me or my agent because neither of us will return the calls. If you don't trade me, I am gonna sit out and you can play your first year with out me or any draft picks you would have got for me.



Okay, so you see how either opinion is just that. In all fairness, it probably didn't go down like either of those two. You don't know how it went down so anything you say to try and be factual is just opinion and that's it. There's been a zillion posts about only opinions on this topic yours is nothing new what so ever. The new facts that came out at least deal with just that, the facts, as they were made by Jay. So all we know for sure is that both men should be held accountable, not just one or the other.

Popps
09-02-2009, 12:12 AM
That's pretty much the long and short of it. A disaster of biblical proportions.

:rofl:

First we were doomed for 50 years because of this... now it's on par with the Great Floods.

Popps
09-02-2009, 01:07 AM
Did anyone hear Rodney Harrison during the late 3rd or early 4th Quarter?

He said a lot about the Broncos HC and his thoughts on how it went down. He said some very clear, direct stuff that in my mind hit the nail on the head.

Dude, you should start a third thread.


Hey, has Eddie Kennison chimed in with his thoughts yet?

If he does, will you do me a favor and pop a thread on the main page for me?

UberBroncoMan
09-02-2009, 01:14 AM
Is there a link or something that you forgot to include?

I can concur. It really was that simple. Josh says you're not traded in the future (even if he's lying) and Jay is still here. Josh chose option B. I would have went with A because I never in my right mind would have let him go. Just like Brady and Manning aren't available. If franchise QB's were so easy to get rid off and replace NE would have decided on Cassel as their starting QB, and Brady would be somewhere else for 2 first rounders etc.

footstepsfrom#27
09-02-2009, 01:18 AM
I wonder if we'll still be talking about this **** in 2020?

Broncos4tw
09-02-2009, 01:20 AM
Um.. the horrible record has something to do with being the worst defense in the NFL. Jay doesn't play DL or safety, in case you didn't notice. And the D and passive Slowik didn't do him any favors by getting a whopping 6 ints on the year. Most QBs who waltzed into the playoffs had as many ints - they just had defenses that gave them a chance by getting the ball back for them.

This is hardly news, this was guessed. We knew there was a meeting. It started falling apart the next day. What SHOULD have happened is Josh saying the right things to keep Cutler in town. Instead, imo, his cocky "we don't need you, we have a magical SYSTEM!" attitude was the final straw for Jay.

Jay left. He was happy. Josh was happy. Broncos are screwed. You could see it sinking in though, on that 98 yard drive by Cutler, as Josh held his hand to his head in a "oh crap what did I do" sort of way.

At the end of the day, we have a crappy QB. And I can't remember the last team that rolled into the SB with a crappy QB that didn't have a top 3 defense. Actually, it was #1. And the QB was still cut the next year.

ZONA
09-02-2009, 01:49 AM
Instead, imo, his cocky "we don't need you, we have a magical SYSTEM!" attitude was the final straw for Jay.


I took the rest out because as you said, it was only opinion. And the part I left in, is not accurate. The final straw for Jay, according to Jay himself and not your opinion, was that the Broncos would not agree to his request that they would never again receive or make calls regarding a trade in which he would be a part of.

I don't know how you guys keep dicing this up and putting your own spin on it, but you do. We don't know the exact words between the two, or the tone of it (although Jay also did say that he never had a blow up with Josh, so I imagine it wasn't bad) so that's all there is.

Okay, now somebody else go ahead and take a turn at spinning it and putting their opinion over the facts.

While I somewhat agree with you in regards to keeping Jay, I would not agree with your opinion that McD should have told Jay anything to keep him. They should have simply just said as the did, no we won't guarantee you that we won't ever trade you, and then left it at that. They still had him under contract and they were in the driver seat, not Jay. That is why I lay blame on both sides. One side clearly wanted out after the team would not cave in to his request and one side should have SHOWED they had the upper hand by simply not doing ANYTHING.

Pat Bowlen
09-02-2009, 02:33 AM
Dear God, why is this even a thread? I take full responsibility. Nobody wanted it this way at the end of last season, but the kid wouldn't play ball for us under very understandable conditions. Deal with it or cry about it somewhere other than this board.

It's 2009, people.

24champ
09-02-2009, 02:36 AM
Dear God, why is this even a thread? I take full responsibility. Nobody wanted it this way at the end of last season, but the kid wouldn't play ball for us under very understandable conditions. Deal with it or cry about it somewhere other than this board.

It's 2009, people.

When are you going to return my calls pat?

Zman
09-02-2009, 03:20 AM
Maybe Cutler did call...maybe your owner is turning into Al Davis II...from Colorado's own Rick Reilly...too short for a column...

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/reillygofish



TOO SHORT FOR A COLUMN

LAST UPDATED 08.28.09

The Denver Broncos' Pat Bowlen used to be one of the cleverest owners in sports. But now he's being undercut by an insidious opponent -- himself.

Bowlen, 65, admitted recently that he has "short-term memory loss." There are whole parts of the Broncos' Super Bowl seasons he says he can't recall.

Bowlen still insists Jay Cutler never called him back during McJay Gate this winter, which left him "no choice" but to trade a dead-lock Pro Bowl 26-year-old quarterback for Kyle Orton and draft choices.

But I've now got it from three different sources -- who choose to remain unidentified -- that Cutler did call Bowlen back.

"Jay called him twice," said one source. "It's unbelievable it came to this."

Is it possible Bowlen forgot?

People close to the team are starting to wonder how much the memory loss is affecting Bowlen's decision making. Disgrunted wide receiver Brandon Marshall says Bowlen promised him in June that he'd trade him. Yet Marshall remains untraded and unhappy.

They're also noticing that more and more of the final decisions have come down to Chief Operating Officer Joe Ellis, a cousin of George W. Bush, who is not a football guy and definitely not a Cutler fan. If you recall, Ellis alone made the trip out to Boston to have a second conversation with the Broncos' highly suspect new 33-year-old head coach, Josh McDaniels.

And how's this for weird: Bowlen admitted in May that he still hadn't spoken to the coach he fired, Mike Shanahan. Those two used to be the best of friends. Not even a phone call? Is Bowlen sure?

These and other curious goings-on have left the team with slim hopes and two Salvation Army QBs -- Kyle Orton and Chris Simms. Letting Cutler go will cost the franchise for years to come. This season, the general Las Vegas over/under on Broncos wins is seven. They'll be lucky to get six.

Making a lot of Denver fans will wish they could forget, too.

Gort
09-02-2009, 03:54 AM
Jay left. He was happy. Josh was happy. Broncos are screwed. You could see it sinking in though, on that 98 yard drive by Cutler, as Josh held his hand to his head in a "oh crap what did I do" sort of way.

first, you excuse Jay's losing record and blame it on the Broncos defense.

then, when Jay leads 1 long drive for a TD in pre-season, you claim how obviously great Jay is as a QB. but he led that drive against the Broncos.

you can't have it both ways. if the Broncos D sucks, then Jay didn't show anything to anybody by driving 98 yards on them. but if the Broncos D is something special, and thus so is Jay by driving 98 yards on them, then you have to admit that Jay is a loser with a career REGULAR season record of 17-20.

so which is it?

Pat Bowlen
09-02-2009, 04:26 AM
Maybe Cutler did call...maybe your owner is turning into Al Davis II...from Colorado's own Rick Reilly...too short for a column...

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/reillygofish
When I said that I was suffering from short-term memory loss I was referring to posts and threads like this.

footstepsfrom#27
09-02-2009, 04:41 AM
Finally we can put this thing to rest. No more speculation, no more second guessing, we now know exactly what happened and it came right from Cutler's own mouth.

Cutler admits that there was never any real blow up between him and Josh. He was unhappy about the trade rumors and in their face to face meeting, was willing to finally put that aside if Josh would assure him that he would not trade him in the future. This is where the final ties were broken. Josh, as any coach would have done basically said I can't guarantee that, nobody is "untradable" and that wasn't good enough for Cutler so he wanted out for sure at that moment. Slice it up how you want and pick a side but it's finally nice to know what went down for real.
I don't think he was saying anything new. I think you're just interpreting it that way. We already knew he was unhappy about them talking trade with NE for Cassel, so whether they said something then or later, who cares? This whole mess started because McD was talking to NE about Cassel as soon as he got here. What happened after that as far as him calling or not calling Bowlen, texting or not texting, etc...is pure speculation depending on who you choose to believe. What difference does it make now? It's water under the bridge. So I guess we could sit around talking about it for another 10 years or focus on what's going on now.
Bottom line it's unfortunate how this all went down but moving forward is needed for both Cutler and the Broncos. They both seem to be doing just that, if only the whiners here could do the same.
By whiners you mean people who keep bringing this **** up again and again right? Like you're doing here?

Agreed.

Odysseus
09-02-2009, 04:42 AM
Does this mean I can start wearing my Bear's Cutler jersey now? Too soon?

DBroncos4life
09-02-2009, 05:14 AM
first, you excuse Jay's losing record and blame it on the Broncos defense.

then, when Jay leads 1 long drive for a TD in pre-season, you claim how obviously great Jay is as a QB. but he led that drive against the Broncos.

you can't have it both ways. if the Broncos D sucks, then Jay didn't show anything to anybody by driving 98 yards on them. but if the Broncos D is something special, and thus so is Jay by driving 98 yards on them, then you have to admit that Jay is a loser with a career REGULAR season record of 17-20.

so which is it?

Why can't he have it both ways? This isn't the same D as last year. New starters, new coach, and a new system.

Atwater His Ass
09-02-2009, 05:43 AM
Why can't he have it both ways? This isn't the same D as last year. New starters, new coach, and a new system.

add all those up. they = fail.

this D will be horrible again this year.

but it'll be ok, because as we coast into a 4-12 record, hey, at least they GAVE EFFORT RIGHT???Hilarious!

(oh and dynamic stretching....that's all we really needed to add to be super bowl contenders....lmfao)

fontaine
09-02-2009, 06:20 AM
There's plenty of blame to go around, but ultimately the straw that broke the camel's back was Bowlen getting involved. Either it was a lose-lose situation when he got involved, that's why coachs/GMs get the big money to deal with players.

To both Josh/Cutler's credit they did leave it at "Jay will report to mandatory camps" until Bowlen started with his whole I got disrespected thing.

DrFate
09-02-2009, 06:24 AM
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii237/cbc82/GIF_saftey_guy_suicide.gif

best addition to the thread

errand
09-02-2009, 06:38 AM
We can bitch and moan all we want....the bottom line is this - regardless of McDaniels words and actions, and regardless of Bowlen's words and actions....Jay isn't in Denver because he didn't want to be in Denver. Bottom line, if he truly wanted to stay in Denver...he'd have never asked to be traded.

errand
09-02-2009, 06:40 AM
New starters, new coach, and a new system.

...and yet amazingly this isn't a valid excuse for the offense's poor showings in preseason

errand
09-02-2009, 06:45 AM
:rofl:

First we were doomed for 50 years because of this... now it's on par with the Great Floods.

Reminds me of when Plummer was signed...remember Blueflame's "mistake of colossal proportions" quote?

spdirty
09-02-2009, 07:24 AM
Very simply, they gave into his request because Bowlen was insulted and he made it personal. He let his anger cloud his judgement when they should have at least waited until the draft and see if everything could be resolved.

Bingo. I couldve sworn I remember hearing that Josh was the only one there during the 11th hour that still believed it could be worked out between him and Jay. And Bowlen ordered that they trade him.

Mr. Elway
09-02-2009, 07:57 AM
Finally we can put this thing to rest. No more speculation, no more second guessing, we now know exactly what happened and it came right from Cutler's own mouth.

Cutler admits that there was never any real blow up between him and Josh. He was unhappy about the trade rumors and in their face to face meeting, was willing to finally put that aside if Josh would assure him that he would not trade him in the future. This is where the final ties were broken. Josh, as any coach would have done basically said I can't guarantee that, nobody is "untradable" and that wasn't good enough for Cutler so he wanted out for sure at that moment. Slice it up how you want and pick a side but it's finally nice to know what went down for real.

I have a hard time understanding why the Broncos gave in to Jay's request, he was under contract and they should have just told him too bad. But I can also see the side of a coach and organization saying to the player, you don't dictate to us if we can trade you or not, no player is above the team. I mean, you would have to check yourself if you're the owner and that's Brady or Manning saying that but Cutler hasn't done anything yet in the NFL to the level of those guys and certainly not to the point where he can go to the coach and owner and tell them how to run things.

Bottom line it's unfortunate how this all went down but moving forward is needed for both Cutler and the Broncos. They both seem to be doing just that, if only the whiners here could do the same.

This seems like a reasonable assessment, but you are missing this part: Knowing how Cutler had reacted thus far (a bit immature), McDaniels should have just said "sure, we have no plans to trade you. You're the guy, let's go win some games." There is no reason not to say that to calm Cutler down and keep him happy.

Bottom line is yes, Cutler is a bit immature. But McDaniels is the coach and the grownup in this situation. He lost a really good QB that he easily could have kept with just a little humoring.

It was a rookie mistake on McDaniels' part, but we all make mistakes. If he can coach the Broncos to a championship level in the next few seasons then I am OK with it.

jayman_37
09-02-2009, 08:35 AM
I just think Josh didn't want him from the get go. If he really wanted him and he knew Cutler just wanted to hear that he wouldn't try to trade him he would have told him so. McDaniels picked the system over talent. We will see how it turns out.

Broncos4tw
09-02-2009, 08:56 AM
Even against a crappier defense, a 98 yard drive is no mean feat, but regardless, at least he did what a QB SHOULD do against a cruddier defense. Orton cannot manage even that. We've hardly played powerhouse offenses, and yet we are still struggling. Cutler looked so much better than Orton. Orton had what.. a long 10 yard pass? They were behind and low receivers, while Cutler threw some lasers and a nice touch pass as well, in a single drive. There is no doubt who the more athletic, skilled QB is.

<!-- / icon and title --> <!-- message --> We can b**** and moan all we want....the bottom line is this - regardless of McDaniels words and actions, and regardless of Bowlen's words and actions....Jay isn't in Denver because he didn't want to be in Denver. Bottom line, if he truly wanted to stay in Denver...he'd have never asked to be traded.

That's a load of crap, c'mon now. If Josh and Bowlen REALLY wanted to have Jay on this team, they could have said and done things to ensure this was the case. Who CARES if they have to give assurances they'd not trade him away. Then do it. They absolutely could have said the right things to keep him in town. If that had happened, I doubt Marshall would be disgruntled as he is now.

They chose not to. Making every analyst, as well as many players and coaches shake their head in amazement. I've not heard a SINGLE ONE that said it was a good idea. NONE. From draft day on, anytime I've seen a televised anything, to a man, they think that trading Cutler away was definitely the franchices doing, and that it was a pretty boneheaded move to make.

Doesn't matter now, does it. If you want to say this is 'resolved' go ahead, but imo, the front office is bungling player personal relations, and it's NOT resolved, because these guys are still around. I foresee more of the same. The more skill players we lose, the less will want to play for our team, mark my words.

lex
09-02-2009, 09:45 AM
We can b**** and moan all we want....the bottom line is this - regardless of McDaniels words and actions, and regardless of Bowlen's words and actions....Jay isn't in Denver because he didn't want to be in Denver. Bottom line, if he truly wanted to stay in Denver...he'd have never asked to be traded.
If only that were true.

Bronco Yoda
09-02-2009, 10:05 AM
So.... just to keep the score straight here now...

For months now, some here claimed McD's lies were the reason why Jay wanted out of here.

Now it's that McD DIDN'T lie when he should have to keep the QB passified.


or is it both now ?

TheDave
09-02-2009, 10:11 AM
So.... just to keep the score straight here now...

For months now, some here claimed McD's lies were the reason why Jay wanted out of here.

Now it's that McD DIDN'T lie when he should have to keep the QB passified.


or is it both now ?

I couldn't care less how we got here... The true stupidity began and ended with actually trading him.

It's a very simple rule: You don't trade 25 year old pro bowl QB's.

Bronco Yoda
09-02-2009, 10:23 AM
I agree with you...

Just wanted to see where the "liar' crowd stood now.

bendog
09-02-2009, 10:40 AM
Besides, this thread started with Zona posting some PC correct crap that Cutler tossed out. Of couse the kid's gonna take the high road, esp now that it looks like the Hoodie is looking at the Green Mile.

But you were right on the other thread. There's nothing to suggest that Bowlen has ever told a coach/FO to trade, or not trade, someone.

However, there's a very good chance the NFL will lock out the players in 2011. The owners will never again allow another actual strike. Eli got 97 mil with 33 guaranteed and Rivers got 93 with 35or38guaranteed. I won't say that didn't get factored in by Bowlen. It's not like he's got outside income or a zillion in stocks and bonds. I'd bet that there's no way Den makes any big personnel moves until after there's a new contract with NLFPA

All that **** about "Bowlen felt dissed" is a joke. Hoodie didn't want Lambchop. What's do discuss. Bowlen may have called Lambchop, and Lambchop may have not called back, or told his agent to call back. It'd be one thing if Hoodie wondered how much he could get for Lambchop to NE for Cassel plus whatever Uncle Bill would throw in, but Hoodie at sometime decided he didn't want Lambchop. My Guess is that Lambchop didn't act nice, or respectfully, after Hoodie said he'd keep Bates, and then fired him.

As for who lied, it's irrelevant.