PDA

View Full Version : Orton's Appraisal


Vegas_Bronco
08-31-2009, 02:47 AM
Obviously, we've had 3 games to view Orton...what is your overall appraisal on where he needs to be? He reminds me a lot of Jake...which is good and bad. Luke warm QB just doesn't work in Denver...so, if you noticed something at the game that we didn't see on TV, let us know.

Orton looks to have excellent fundamentals...he's quick to check..doesn't make a tough throw ever and always seems to go for the high percentage option in his reads - I like that and can respect it. He isn't going to try to drill one in there very often. My main concern is his fluctuating ball speed and his inaccuracy.

Game 1, I felt he looked good all around and really did do a good job vs the niners except for the interceptions. 2 were bad reads, another a short throw (inaccurate).

Game 2, I thought the offense moved the ball very well - this was my favorite game for the O to date. Ortons best game of the preseason imo. But again, inside the red zone he just joked...I hate to be negative, but it was bad...and dropping a TD didn't help either.

Game 3 - this game he had some balls that looked really good but for the most part on 3rd down his accuracy was horrible. He was consistently behind guys even on 12 yard crossing routes. His decision making seems to be really good at times, but then his accuracy kills the drive eventually and his ball takes too long to get to the WR - especially on 3rd down. Not sure if this is just unfamiliarity with the guys/timing issues or that he's to predictable and doesn't look off his defenders.

If we go dink and dunk offense...we have to get the short game near perfect and he's got to make these throws every time. I feel this is in part due to the playcalling as some of the calls were bad - low percentage plays that rarely work...not sure about Josh just yet. I think he's too wrapped up in being a coach and hasn't really put together a playbook for this team.

I like that Orton is a great individual, I'd love to see him get a bit more emotion in his game - more attitude instead of being McD's playbook practice dummy. I must say that I am impressed for the most part with Orton and want him to do well - he's learning and looking good, but he hasn't put together a full game yet in 3 preseason games.

SureShot
08-31-2009, 02:55 AM
I just did the appraisal for Kyle Orton and he doesn't qualify for a loan. Sorry.

Vegas_Bronco
08-31-2009, 02:58 AM
I just did the appraisal for Kyle Orton and he doesn't qualify for a loan. Sorry.

That's for the mortgage broker/underwriter to decide...the appraiser just gives his opinion regardless of the heap or mansion he's viewing. :thumbsup:

SureShot
08-31-2009, 03:03 AM
That's for the mortgage broker/underwriter to decide...the appraiser just gives his opinion regardless of the heap or mansion he's viewing. :thumbsup:

You are totally right so I sent this over to the underwriter and he laughed at me! What now?

TDmvp
08-31-2009, 03:54 AM
He reminds me of a less athletic , less charismatic version of this guy.


http://www.joblo.com/newsimages1/uglymask.jpg

I swear every time they showed his new head shot during the game I seen that guy from Mask in a Broncos uni ...

footstepsfrom#27
08-31-2009, 04:17 AM
He doesn't remind me anything of Plummer. Plummer could roll out and throw on the run or pick up yards himself. This guy's almost a statue. He runs like my grandfather. The one thing that surprises me about Orton is that he seems to have enough arm to get it downfield...so why doesn't he? I can't believe it's as simple as McD not calling plays for him to throw it more than 8 yards because as we've seen with both Simms and Brandstater, he's called those plays. I think Orton's simply got no confidence in his arm so he's checking down to the screens and short zones. We had 3 1st downs in the first half and I'm pretty sure no more than 1...maybe none...were the result of his passing to a receiver who was past the sticks. His completion percentage is jacked up because he's throwing it like he did in Chicago but I don't see him being able to move the team quickly downfield to score if we're behind. Now he's hurt...even if he only misses next week that's a lot of practice time he ought to have.

Dedhed
08-31-2009, 04:23 AM
I was struck by two things watching last night's game.

1-Kyle Orton is not the answer.
2-I don't miss Cutler at all.

meangene
08-31-2009, 04:27 AM
I think the original appraisal was pretty accurate. What killed us last night with the first team offense was penalties. I can't remember our offensive line being called for so many major penalties - hard to overcome that for any team. It is obvious the offense is still a work in progress and there were a couple misreads by receivers that I can recall that may have made Orton look bad. Gafney being injured hurts because he is like a receivers coach the way he knows the offense and he is dependable. If you watch the Pats games from last year, you can see the gradual progression with Cassel from week to week as he became more comfortable with the offense. I think you will see the same from Orton and will see him throwing the ball downfield more often. Getting Moreno back will be a huge plus. Again, we need to be patient with this team.

BroncoInSkinland
08-31-2009, 04:43 AM
Good at reading defenses and reacting.
Accurate with the short pass.
Scared to throw deep, even when he has to.
Immobile, in a more than Drew Bledsoe way.
Will not win games with either his arm or legs, but can keep teams honest against the run with quick slants, screens and short crossing routes.

With our O-line and a good running game, I think he can let the rest of the team win ball games here, with small contributions at times. Moreno getting back in in a real game situation should be interesting. Also, before completely ruling out the deep threat possibilities, I would like to see him attempt some throws to Marshall if Brandon ever decides to pull his head out.

Inkana7
08-31-2009, 04:49 AM
Orton is hott.

toad
08-31-2009, 05:00 AM
Does anyone think McD might be sandbagging the playbook for the preseason?

Last night was the first game I've seen this year and it seemed a very vanilla (and not particularly well executed) play-called game.

WolfpackGuy
08-31-2009, 05:06 AM
Missing and throwing behind wide open guys.
Yeah, the Broncos got an absolute STEAL in Orton.

fontaine
08-31-2009, 05:27 AM
Orton is just what he is.

A dink and dunk passer that's not good enough to make intermediate or long throws consistently. The glass is half full or half empty, depending I guess.

RunSilentRunDeep
08-31-2009, 05:31 AM
I'm not saying Orton is special, he's not. But keep in mind, it's a totally new offense for everyone and they were without two of their top three receivers and No. 1 back. It's going to take time. When Cassel took over last year, the Pats average 16 points per game in September. In December, they averaged 33 points per game, and that includes a 13-point outing the last week in Buffalo where they ran 50 times and only threw 8 times because the wind was so fierce.

oubronco
08-31-2009, 06:01 AM
he is what he is now we have to deal with it

broncofan7
08-31-2009, 06:10 AM
Orton is the third best Qb on our roster in terms of talent--once Tom B gets a year of experience under his belt and Simms recovers--I fully expect Orton to be our 3rd QB.

cmhargrove
08-31-2009, 06:43 AM
Orton just needs a couple things to be more effective.

We just need to find a big, physical #1 receiver, and a stud three-down running back. Oh, my bad...

Garcia Bronco
08-31-2009, 06:45 AM
He can't throw down field consistently. This side line **** is going to get eaten alive.

gyldenlove
08-31-2009, 07:08 AM
The one thing that strikes me with this guy is that his winning record is not his own making. I think we can all agree that Peyton Manning has a pretty big hand in his winning record, but Orton, not so much. He is a guy that can definitely avoid losing games if your defense can win games, but I don't think he can win games even if the defense can avoid losing them.

LonghornBronco
08-31-2009, 07:19 AM
He doesn't remind me anything of Plummer. Plummer could roll out and throw on the run or pick up yards himself. This guy's almost a statue. He runs like my grandfather. The one thing that surprises me about Orton is that he seems to have enough arm to get it downfield...so why doesn't he? I can't believe it's as simple as McD not calling plays for him to throw it more than 8 yards because as we've seen with both Simms and Brandstater, he's called those plays. I think Orton's simply got no confidence in his arm so he's checking down to the screens and short zones. We had 3 1st downs in the first half and I'm pretty sure no more than 1...maybe none...were the result of his passing to a receiver who was past the sticks. His completion percentage is jacked up because he's throwing it like he did in Chicago but I don't see him being able to move the team quickly downfield to score if we're behind. Now he's hurt...even if he only misses next week that's a lot of practice time he ought to have.

Excellent point. Perhaps we are baiting teams and once the regular season starts we will throw it down field.

If anyone is familliar with the patriots can you attest to the down field / dink-dunk throw ratio is very low?

61Vikefan
08-31-2009, 07:26 AM
I think the Broncos should trade for Tarvaris Jackson.

Cool Breeze
08-31-2009, 07:45 AM
I dislike Tarvaris Jackson and so does everyone in Minnesota

MileHighMagic
08-31-2009, 07:58 AM
I think the Broncos should trade for Derek Anderson.

Fixed

RaiderH8r
08-31-2009, 08:03 AM
He is who we thought he was when he was wearing a Bears uni. We were exactly right in our assessment of Orton as a Bear.

broncofan7
08-31-2009, 08:05 AM
I think the Broncos should trade for Tarvaris Jackson.

Please back up from the ledge---if the team trades for Tavaris--I will jump in your place.......

broncofan7
08-31-2009, 08:06 AM
Fixed

I concur.........

TheDave
08-31-2009, 08:07 AM
He is who we thought he was when he was wearing a Bears uni. We were exactly right in our assessment of Orton as a Bear.

He looked much better for the bears. Seems the less he throws the ball the better he looks... odd.

Broncos4tw
08-31-2009, 08:49 AM
He is your average QB, that's all. On many teams with solid QBs, he would be the backup. As a starter, we will be limited in what we can do. Obviously he can't throw downfield, when he is unable to accurately hit a guy 12 yards away on a consistent basis. He has poor scrambling ability, and he is very Griese-like in his looking down the first, closest receiver and throwing to him, often telegraphing these throws (which imo, is why he was picked so often).

The bears were a different team. They were a running team first always, and a defensive team. Being the "star" of a offense driven "system" is probably quite a bit of a change.

The only way I could fathom winning the SB with this guy is if our running game was in the top 3, and our defense in the top 5. Maybe. I just can't see him carrying the team on his shoulders, ever.

RaiderH8r
08-31-2009, 08:59 AM
He looked much better for the bears. Seems the less he throws the ball the better he looks... odd.

We should bring on Brandstater. What the hell eh? Let's get that Brady Ball thing rolling. Or does that only work if the Brady-hero comes in for an injured starter? Are there rules to getting the Brady Ball rolling because I'm pretty sure Orton lacerated an artery last night and can't play ever again.

brncobrett
08-31-2009, 09:03 AM
Pos

61Vikefan
08-31-2009, 09:03 AM
Please back up from the ledge---if the team trades for Tavaris--I will jump in your place.......

Yes, it was kind of a joke but at least you don't have to watch Brett F*cking Favre wear the uniform of your favorite team this season.

I would rather lose with Kyle Orton than with with the POS we have.

Br0nc0Buster
08-31-2009, 09:57 AM
He doesnt look terrible
I think he looks decent, but nothing special

I expect him to improve as the season goes along, similar to what happened with Cassel

Plus I expect us to run more when the season starts, perhaps making him a bit more effective

We are also missing some key players in Gaff, Marshall, and Moreno

TheReverend
08-31-2009, 10:03 AM
Orton's appraisal:

http://4gifs.com/gallery/d/129651-1/Cucumber_BJ_lesson.gif

Eldorado
08-31-2009, 10:05 AM
Orton's appraisal:

http://4gifs.com/gallery/d/129651-1/Cucumber_BJ_lesson.gif

Nice rotation.

Jason in LA
08-31-2009, 10:08 AM
Well I don't put any stock into preseason games. Remember Ryan Leaf looking good in his first preseason? Does anybody even pay attention to what the established QBs do in preseason? They could be as average as can be and nobody would pay attention.

I didn't think much of Orton when he played for the Bears. This preseason hasn't changed my mind. He'll have his chance week 1 to do that. I don't have much faith that he will.

footstepsfrom#27
08-31-2009, 10:11 AM
We should bring on Brandstater. What the hell eh? Let's get that Brady Ball thing rolling. Or does that only work if the Brady-hero comes in for an injured starter? Are there rules to getting the Brady Ball rolling because I'm pretty sure Orton lacerated an artery last night and can't play ever again.
You might have something there on the injured starter theory. The other Tom B was 1-3 his rookie year then took over for another statue when Bledsoe went down his 2nd year. Then of course there's the Cassel thing so maybe McD thinks that's the normal way to develop a QB. Brady was the 199th pick in the draft and Cassel was picked 230...our boy Tom went 177th so he ought to be better than both of them eh? :wiggle:

footstepsfrom#27
08-31-2009, 10:18 AM
Well I don't put any stock into preseason games. Remember Ryan Leaf looking good in his first preseason? Does anybody even pay attention to what the established QBs do in preseason? They could be as average as can be and nobody would pay attention.

I didn't think much of Orton when he played for the Bears. This preseason hasn't changed my mind. He'll have his chance week 1 to do that. I don't have much faith that he will.
I don't put any stock in preseason either BUT it's at least worth noting that these short passes are pretty much what he was also doing in Chicago his whole time there. We know that's not the only weapon in the game plan so why is not being given anything downfield by McD? Or maybe he is but he's checking down to the dump off...who knows? Either way...his style and approach seems an awfully lot like it was for the Bears. Most of the argument on why he was going to be good here revolved around him having superior weapons to what he had in Chi-town...with no Marshall (keep in mind Champ thinks it's only 50/50 he plays for Denver this year) Orton would be working with a near replica of the Bears offense at the skill positions; a smallish speed guy, no real possession WR on the other side, and good TE's and RB's who can catch. It would sure be nice if he hadn't got the finger issue now so we could at least see him one more time before Cincy.

RaiderH8r
08-31-2009, 10:20 AM
You might have something there on the injured starter theory. The other Tom B was 1-3 his rookie year then took over for another statue when Bledsoe went down his 2nd year. Then of course there's the Cassel thing so maybe McD thinks that's the normal way to develop a QB. Brady was the 199th pick in the draft and Cassel was picked 230...our boy Tom went 177th so he ought to be better than both of them eh? :wiggle:

Now we're rolling on the QB developments. Ground floor, who wants on? The only way to go is up ladies.

Cito Pelon
08-31-2009, 10:21 AM
Orton will have a hard time getting his job back.

That One Guy
08-31-2009, 10:21 AM
I remember watching him in a Chicago game when Grossman replaced him in the second half. When Grossman came in, suddenly an anemic offense moved straight down the field. The offense clicked with something that Orton definitely hadn't done. The offense looks exactly the same. Can the offensive guru not do any better with Orton than the Bears did?

Garcia Bronco
08-31-2009, 10:22 AM
Excellent point. Perhaps we are baiting teams and once the regular season starts we will throw it down field.

If anyone is familliar with the patriots can you attest to the down field / dink-dunk throw ratio is very low?

Out of my ass I would say 75 percent of his downfield throws miss their target or get taken away.

scorpio
08-31-2009, 10:23 AM
Orton's appraisal:

http://4gifs.com/gallery/d/129651-1/Cucumber_BJ_lesson.gif

Whoa buddy, you're going to get DramaLlama fired

OrangeCrush2724
08-31-2009, 10:44 AM
Some observations from last night:

McD called a game that he normally wouldn't call during the season (atleast, I hope). The running game needs to be involved more and should be when Moreno is back. And that's why I think he gave more repetitions to Orton with so many multiple WR sets w/o having the run involved.

Saying that, the guy is not capable of leading this type of offense. I think he suits best for a Trent Dilfer offense. He doesn't set his feet. If his first read is covered, he hesitates and almost gets nervous. I was disappointed in that I didn't see passes in the 15-20 yard range. If we aren't able to do this, DC will force Orton to beat us...and I don't think he can.

lazarus4444
08-31-2009, 10:52 AM
Does anyone think McD might be sandbagging the playbook for the preseason?

Last night was the first game I've seen this year and it seemed a very vanilla (and not particularly well executed) play-called game.

Yes, i think he is TOTALLY sandbagging this entire pre-season.

gtown
08-31-2009, 10:54 AM
I was struck by two things watching last night's game.

1-Kyle Orton is not the answer.
2-I don't miss Cutler at all.

I was thinking the very same things. They are both good NFL quarterbacks but not even close to the Brady, Manning, Brees et al pantheon.

Chris
08-31-2009, 11:04 AM
Orton's appraisal:

http://4gifs.com/gallery/d/129651-1/Cucumber_BJ_lesson.gif

What movie is this from and where can I watch it?

tonngo0
08-31-2009, 11:13 AM
Does anyone think McD might be sandbagging the playbook for the preseason?

Last night was the first game I've seen this year and it seemed a very vanilla (and not particularly well executed) play-called game.

Why would McD sandbagging ? This is his first game as a head coach playing in front of the Broncos fans and he wants to sandbag the playbook ? If McD is doing that then McD must be the idiotic coach I have ever known.

Broncos4tw
08-31-2009, 11:36 AM
Sandbagging? I don't think so. He doesn't have such a super-secret, top-notch offense that he needs to keep it secret. I think what we are seeing, is what we are going to get.

DeusExManning
08-31-2009, 11:37 AM
Jake Plummer with no mobility, Sack Morton, Steve Deberg = Kyle Orton

DivineLegion
08-31-2009, 12:57 PM
The only thing im going to miss from both Jake and Jay is their escapability, I dont see that from Kyle and I think this is going to seriously effect the efficiency of our offense.

orange 4 life
08-31-2009, 01:42 PM
He doesn't remind me anything of Plummer. Plummer could roll out and throw on the run or pick up yards himself. This guy's almost a statue. He runs like my grandfather. The one thing that surprises me about Orton is that he seems to have enough arm to get it downfield...so why doesn't he? I can't believe it's as simple as McD not calling plays for him to throw it more than 8 yards because as we've seen with both Simms and Brandstater, he's called those plays. I think Orton's simply got no confidence in his arm so he's checking down to the screens and short zones. We had 3 1st downs in the first half and I'm pretty sure no more than 1...maybe none...were the result of his passing to a receiver who was past the sticks. His completion percentage is jacked up because he's throwing it like he did in Chicago but I don't see him being able to move the team quickly downfield to score if we're behind. Now he's hurt...even if he only misses next week that's a lot of practice time he ought to have.

From high up at Mile High, I can assure you there WEREN'T any receivers downfield TO throw to.
It has been a concern for me as well, though I'm hopeful that it's just part of "not showing your hand" in the preseason.

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if we go vertical (assuming Orton can play) against Cinci, and it would surprise me less if they were prepared for it.

As for the overall assessment, I'm in the minority that thinks there's more to be optimistic about than not, and this from a guy that melted down at the thought of him as our starter.

That said, the first two preseason games showed an arm better than we thought, a reasonable early season grasp of a tough offense, a FANTASTIC ability to communicate with fellow team mates and coaches (something we've sorely lacked since #16 departed), and a toughness that we need at the position.
This last game was of course a step back, but it was ALSO interesting to see the COMPLETELY different mode of attack. Three tight end sets, MUCH more of an effort to run the ball, etc.

Honestly, I think McD is being a bit too cute, but I ALSO think he's making a concerted effort to make sure no one knows just what kind of offense we're actually going to run in the REGULAR season.
In game two at the one we spread out and throw three straight times.
In game three it's NO ONE split out and pound it in.

I agree with Dave Logan when he says we just don't know what to expect.
Could be a good team, could be average, could be terrible.

...And yes, Orton will have alot to do with it, but again, I think there's hope.
He hasn't put together a complete game, but two weeks from yesterday would be the time to do it, and I think he just might. Just my .02.

elpasojoe
08-31-2009, 01:50 PM
He does not look good in the pocket, has no movement outside the pocket and I agree with OrangeCrush2724 he does not set his feet. I think that plays a role in the inaccuracy of some of his passes. That can be fixed, I hope.

Bronco Yoda
08-31-2009, 01:55 PM
It's painfully obvious that Orton is only a stopgap until McD finds someone to groom into the job.

That first game probably really shook his confidence up. There's no good reason why he's so dead set on checking down every time like he is. I really doubt that McD put that tight of a leash on him.... but you never know I guess.

One things for sure, Orton is no Jake on the run.

errand
08-31-2009, 04:02 PM
Gee, Kyle Orton isn't like Elway (who is?)...or Jake, or Jay....so what? He's our QB...and get this guys, he wants to be in Denver.

I've spoken with a few Bears fans I've met, who while they were thrilled to get a franchise type QB in Cutler, they weren't quick to toss Orton under the bus...because they know he did the best he could with limited options on a adequate (at best) Bears offense. Some have even said they kind of wished he wasn't traded, as he was a likable guy who would have been a great back-up to Cutler.

You have to look at this situation objectively.

We have one of the NFL's youngest teams...especially on offense.

Orton is not a cannon armed QB.

Orton isn't a nimble QB.

Orton could be called a system QB perhaps.

Orton is learning a new offense, as are his teammates, which will stunt the team's growth in the early going.

Orton does not have two main weapons available to him in Marshall (suspended for being a punk) and Moreno (injured) which when/if he get use of their services will help him, and the offense immensely.

McDaniels helped former 6th round pick Tom Brady become a perrenial all-pro, quite possibly the NFL's best QB of his era. To put into perspective the greatness of that feat....Brian Griese started in front of Brady in college.

McDaniels also helped former 7th round pick Matt Cassell, who hadn't started a game since high school, and was a career back-up in college to become a solid NFL QB who was a pro bowl alternate in his first year of starting.

I'm sure guys like Lex will claim these are "excuses"...well, fine. Call them what you wish. but they are undeniable truths. My expectations of the Broncos are grounded in the fact that we are a team in transition trying to become relevant on the gridiron again...we might not win 10 games this season, then again we might. either one wouldn't suprise me.

If we went 4-12...I'd be dissappointedly suprised. If we went 12-4 I'd be happily suprised.