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BroncoMan4ever
08-30-2009, 11:44 PM
Jesus Christ. i swear this guy wanted to blow Cutler tonight. every other word out of his mouth was how great Jay is. every single praise he gave Cutler ended up sounding like him begging for Cutler's dick.

DBroncos4life
08-30-2009, 11:48 PM
Well some people just don't know that Kyle Orton has won more NFL games then Jay and is better in the RZ then Jay. :) All kidding aside Cutler is a good talented young QB. Collinsworth also said that Jay speaks his mind and that doesn't make him popular.

lex
08-30-2009, 11:52 PM
Collinsworth was knowledgeable enough to point out how much it hurt losing Hillis last year. A lot of national media seem to be oblivious to this. The beginning and end of last season seems to get most of the attention. Hillis' stretch of brilliance was sandwiched between that and is often overlooked. Collinsworth won big points for knowing that.

Go Gators!

Bronco LB52
08-30-2009, 11:54 PM
Collinsworth was knowledgeable enough to point out how much it hurt losing Hillis last year. A lot of national media seem to be oblivious to this. The beginning and end of last season seems to get most of the attention. Hillis' stretch of brilliance was sandwiched between that and is often overlooked. Collinsworth won big points for knowing that.

Go Gators!

Denver beats Buffalo in week 16 with a healthy Hillis.

broncolife
08-30-2009, 11:56 PM
I always thought Collinsworth was a closet bronco fan. He even said he wished Cutler was still here.

lex
08-30-2009, 11:56 PM
Denver beats Buffalo in week 16 with a healthy Hillis.

He had a rushing TD in every game during that stretch. Punching the ball in wasnt really as much of a problem with him. Plus our defense seemed more settled when we had the running game he brought.

broncocalijohn
08-30-2009, 11:57 PM
he criticized BM too so he says what he feels. I respect it but would you rather have that jabba the Hutt (Madden) back in the NFL doing games?

Popps
08-31-2009, 12:02 AM
I like Chris C. He's generally a smart guy and gives good insight. I have no problem with people questioning the move, however... I'm not sure I buy his "just suspend him" theory.
I don't think Collinsworth is looking at the big picture as far as what went down, and where this team may end up in a couple of years.

People just want to make this about Jay v. Kyle. That's pure stupidity.

This argument should be this, plain and simple..

Does the collective group of moves made by the new Broncos staff make the team better or worse over a period of years.

That's it. Plain and simple. This isn't about one player. It's about the long-run and about what's best for the franchise. If Jay goes to 16 Pro Bowls from here out, I really don't care... as long as we get better. If he ends up in the CFL, I don't care... as long as we get better.

People trying to link this **** for all of eternity just aren't looking at the right picture.
It may be fun, or good TV... but McDaniels and Co. just want to win playoff games, as do most of the fans.

footstepsfrom#27
08-31-2009, 12:04 AM
Collinsworth is a pretty good and knowlegeable guy. They can't all be Bronco haters and secretly desiring to blow Cutler. Maybe some of them just speak what they think is the truth. Have you thought of that?

DBroncos4life
08-31-2009, 12:05 AM
he criticized BM too so he says what he feels. I respect it but would you rather have that jabba the Hutt (Madden) back in the NFL doing games?

Yeah I would rather have this then some old dude saying you see what he is doing there? The QB takes the snap then the throws the football using a forward motion. That's called the foward pass. On second thought maybe we should bring Madden in here to talk to McD.

Kid A
08-31-2009, 12:06 AM
I like Collinsworth. Announcers in general just seem to get particularly excited about talented/big names QBs...which is also generally what fans do too. Sure it can go too far (i.e. Madden+Favre=love4ever), but I always enjoyed hearing Jaws rave about Cutler when he was with us. Just how it goes.

Hopefully Orton can play well and get whatever credit he deserves if he does so. If the Broncos start winning again then we can count on hearing plenty of accolades from the booth. Likewise, if Cutler has any troubles he may very well find himself under an inordinate amount of scrutiny. Nature of the business.

lex
08-31-2009, 12:07 AM
I like Chris C. He's generally a smart guy and gives good insight. I have no problem with people questioning the move, however... I'm not sure I buy his "just suspend him" theory.
I don't think Collinsworth is looking at the big picture as far as what went down, and where this team may end up in a couple of years.

People just want to make this about Jay v. Kyle. That's pure stupidity.

This argument should be this, plain and simple..

Does the collective group of moves made by the new Broncos staff make the team better or worse over a period of years.

That's it. Plain and simple. This isn't about one player. It's about the long-run and about what's best for the franchise. If Jay goes to 16 Pro Bowls from here out, I really don't care... as long as we get better. If he ends up in the CFL, I don't care... as long as we get better.

People trying to link this **** for all of eternity just aren't looking at the right picture.
It may be fun, or good TV... but McDaniels and Co. just want to win playoff games, as do most of the fans.

No, the move is definitely questionable but its more at Bowlens feet. And youre right, they did a poor job representing the facts. Its naive to look at Pats transcript where he says Jay is the man in January and not think the trade talks were more like the ending than the beginning. Something happened for things to change that radically. Goodman is another example.

TheDave
08-31-2009, 12:09 AM
Get used to it folks...

Blueflame
08-31-2009, 12:14 AM
I like Chris C. He's generally a smart guy and gives good insight. I have no problem with people questioning the move, however... I'm not sure I buy his "just suspend him" theory.
I don't think Collinsworth is looking at the big picture as far as what went down, and where this team may end up in a couple of years.

People just want to make this about Jay v. Kyle. That's pure stupidity.

This argument should be this, plain and simple..

Does the collective group of moves made by the new Broncos staff make the team better or worse over a period of years.

That's it. Plain and simple. This isn't about one player. It's about the long-run and about what's best for the franchise. If Jay goes to 16 Pro Bowls from here out, I really don't care... as long as we get better. If he ends up in the CFL, I don't care... as long as we get better.

People trying to link this **** for all of eternity just aren't looking at the right picture.
It may be fun, or good TV... but McDaniels and Co. just want to win playoff games, as do most of the fans.

Cris was right, Popps. If the FO had just said... "see you in the mandatory camp...a trade is not happening because you're under contract so your options are show up or retire"... he would have shown up.

The first step for McDaniels is to win a game....that is also what the fans want and need.

Popps
08-31-2009, 12:18 AM
Cris was right, Popps. If the FO had just said... "see you in the mandatory camp...a trade is not happening because you're under contract so your options are show up or retire"... he would have shown up.

The first step for McDaniels is to win a game....that is also what the fans want and need.

Again, I don't want to rehash this... but I think there's more to it than just being able to say "see you at camp." I think money talks took place and both sides figured out very quickly they were in different places, and I think McDaniels and Co. may have also had some concerns about putting that kind of capital into a guy with Cutler's mentality.

That's my opinion, take it or leave it. I don't believe this was all just... "you called me a poo-poo face, I'm taking my toys and leaving."

I think what Cutler and Bus did was calculated and likely based on specific information, and the same for the Broncos front office.

As for winning a game, maybe we can let the season start and see what happens, first? Crazy, I know.

Kid A
08-31-2009, 12:28 AM
People just want to make this about Jay v. Kyle. That's pure stupidity.

This argument should be this, plain and simple..

Does the collective group of moves made by the new Broncos staff make the team better or worse over a period of years.

That's it. Plain and simple. This isn't about one player. It's about the long-run and about what's best for the franchise. If Jay goes to 16 Pro Bowls from here out, I really don't care... as long as we get better. If he ends up in the CFL, I don't care... as long as we get better.


Exactly. There are some very natural reactions that seem to be driving a lot of how people interpret the trade. First, people instantly want to make direct comparisons: how Jay does vs how his replacement (Orton) does.

This just seems like the obvious way to view things (and it's a very convenient of simplifying complicated events to fit a media blurb). It's stupid, though, to reduce this to a QB swap: Chicago gave up the equivalent of an entire draft class for Cutler (at least).

To gauge what Denver actually received will require following several young players for several years. This is a lot more difficult than putting Orton's stats next to Cutler's every week (which, God knows, we'll see plenty of this year), but it's closer to the truth of the matter.

The good news is that, ultimately, it isn't a complicated matter. If the Broncos become a consistent playoff contender again, then we'll have the only verdict we need. It won't necessarily be a verdict that we were "right" to trade Jay or that the players we received were the key to winning. But it would show something more important: that the staff has made the team better, despite whatever turmoil came in the process.

No guarantee that's how it will play out, but until

DeusExManning
08-31-2009, 12:53 AM
Unfortunately everything he said was correct.

BroncoMan4ever
08-31-2009, 12:59 AM
He had a rushing TD in every game during that stretch. Punching the ball in wasnt really as much of a problem with him. Plus our defense seemed more settled when we had the running game he brought.

statistically our defensive points allowed dropped from 28 a game to under 20 when Hillis was starting and our running game didn't suck. Also our offensive points scored went up a TD when he was in.

BroncoMan4ever
08-31-2009, 01:02 AM
Collinsworth is a pretty good and knowlegeable guy. They can't all be Bronco haters and secretly desiring to blow Cutler. Maybe some of them just speak what they think is the truth. Have you thought of that?

i understand the announcers having their opinions and having a strong liking of certain players, but my god man, Collinsworth was gargling on Cutler's balls like Madden used to do with Favre.

i have no problem with an announcer having favorite players, but his entire broadcast revolved around Cutler, it was getting old.

lex
08-31-2009, 01:03 AM
statistically our defensive points allowed dropped from 28 a game to under 20 when Hillis was starting and our running game didn't suck. Also our offensive points scored went up a TD when he was in.

I believe it. This is why the 2nd rated offense vs the 16th rated offense needs to stop. We were 2nd because we were too pass happy. When you pass, you have more clock stoppages. But we were 16th because we lacked the running game. I wouldnt say we were the 2nd best offense but we were closer to that than we were 16. If we would have bad more balance and someone like Hillis in the fold all year, we would have had more points and possibly not as many yards. But we also would have likely not given up as many points on defense.

Blueflame
08-31-2009, 01:10 AM
Again, I don't want to rehash this... but I think there's more to it than just being able to say "see you at camp." I think money talks took place and both sides figured out very quickly they were in different places, and I think McDaniels and Co. may have also had some concerns about putting that kind of capital into a guy with Cutler's mentality.

That's my opinion, take it or leave it. I don't believe this was all just... "you called me a poo-poo face, I'm taking my toys and leaving."

I think what Cutler and Bus did was calculated and likely based on specific information, and the same for the Broncos front office.

As for winning a game, maybe we can let the season start and see what happens, first? Crazy, I know.

Yeah... well. The front office had all the leverage and Cutler/Cook had none. Cutler was under contract. If they wanted to keep him, they could have just said "see you at camp". As everyone in the booth concurred... it's inconceivable to even consider trading a franchise QB for a career backup.

As for winning a game... McD's team has had 3 opportunities now... 2 of them (9'ers, Chickens) against weaker teams than we'll face in the regular season. Crazy, I know.

BroncoMan4ever
08-31-2009, 01:18 AM
Yeah... well. The front office had all the leverage and Cutler/Cook had none. Cutler was under contract. If they wanted to keep him, they could have just said "see you at camp". As everyone in the booth concurred... it's inconceivable to even consider trading a franchise QB for a career backup.

As for winning a game... McD's team has had 3 opportunities now... 2 of them (9'ers, Chickens) against weaker teams than we'll face in the regular season. Crazy, I know.

i am not saying this team is going to be great, but during our back to back super bowl years, we went something like a combined 1-7 during the preseason

on a side note, i believe we will be pretty good this year.

Vegas_Bronco
08-31-2009, 02:05 AM
I like Chris...he's 1/2 full of **** and 1/2 right most of the time - just like you want your announcers. Nothing more boring that an announcer who's been to every game and practice and knows everything about everyone...what fun is that? Damn, I'll gladly take him over Madden everytime.

Dedhed
08-31-2009, 03:40 AM
I didn't get the sense that he was piling on at all. He said he wouldn't have traded a franchise QB like Cutler, but he also mentioned twice that there are stories about Cutler's attitude that may have had a lot to do with why he isn't in Denver anymore.

If you're hoping announcers aren't going to gape at Cutler's arm strength, I wouldn't listen to many Bears games if I were you. Cutler's got talent, but I still think we'll be better off without him in the long run.

errand
08-31-2009, 04:10 AM
Cris was right, Popps. If the FO had just said... "see you in the mandatory camp...a trade is not happening because you're under contract so your options are show up or retire"... he would have shown up.

The first step for McDaniels is to win a game....that is also what the fans want and need.

Say Cutler retires instead of getting traded...then what? He'd be able to sign with another team anyways after he "unretires" like Brett Favre has numerous times...and then your searching the waiver wire for your starting QB...or if it happened before draft you'd have a rookie QB trying to run what is arguably the NFL's nost diverse offense.

At least by trading him we got a servicable QB who is 21-12 as a starter, two #1's and a 3rd.....Collinsworth's way we get zilch.

errand
08-31-2009, 04:15 AM
BTW Blueflame...Orton isn't a career back-up. He's started 33 games...he's been in the league 4 years. It would have been more accurate to call him a part time starter

summerdenver
08-31-2009, 04:33 AM
Say Cutler retires instead of getting traded...then what? He'd be able to sign with another team anyways after he "unretires" like Brett Favre has numerous times...and then your searching the waiver wire for your starting QB...

In this hypothetical scenario, anytime Cutler 'unretires' Broncos would hold the rights to him, i.e. he cannot unretire and sign with any team.

Dedhed
08-31-2009, 04:50 AM
Say Cutler retires instead of getting traded...then what? He'd be able to sign with another team anyways after he "unretires" like Brett Favre has numerous times...and then your searching the waiver wire for your starting QB...or if it happened before draft you'd have a rookie QB trying to run what is arguably the NFL's nost diverse offense.

At least by trading him we got a servicable QB who is 21-12 as a starter, two #1's and a 3rd.....Collinsworth's way we get zilch.

This argument holds less water than a bucket without a bottom. You can't retire and unretire to join another team. The Jets released Favre. In Collinsworth's scenario there's no way the Broncos would grant Cutler's release.

Cutler would either sit, and be fined daily, for the next 2 years, or play for the Broncos.

cmhargrove
08-31-2009, 05:47 AM
Collinsworth is a dork.

He hated on Cutler for his poor decision making and lack of "wins" over the past few years.

Now, he is playing politician by flip-flopping and swabbing Cutler's knob. I can't stand it when commentators waffle around like that season after season. Collinsworth hated on Cutler last year, now he loves him?

jhns
08-31-2009, 06:04 AM
Everything Chris said is exactly what I have said the past few months. That means I'm smarter than all of you since Chris is smarter than all of you. Well, at least when it comes to football.

jhns
08-31-2009, 06:07 AM
This argument holds less water than a bucket without a bottom. You can't retire and unretire to join another team. The Jets released Favre. In Collinsworth's scenario there's no way the Broncos would grant Cutler's release.

Cutler would either sit, and be fined daily, for the next 2 years, or play for the Broncos.

If cutler held out or tried to retire he wouldn't be allowed in the nfl without either actually playing two years here or getting released/traded by us. If you hold out an entire year it doesn't count as a year off the contract if I am understanding it correctly.

WolfpackGuy
08-31-2009, 06:07 AM
I've never had a problem with Collinsworth's commentary.
Good or bad, he just comes right out and speaks his mind.
At least we didn't have to listen to Madden have on air wet dreams about Favre, Aikman, and Emmitt covered in Turducken.

GoBroncos DownUnder
08-31-2009, 06:08 AM
Can anyone tell me when Cutler was officially designated by all members of the media as a "FRANCHISE QB"? ???

Last year he was just merely a "strong armed QB" ... but now he's talked about as if he's the NFL's best QB and a post-season veteran!?! WTF?

jhns
08-31-2009, 06:09 AM
BTW Blueflame...Orton isn't a career back-up. He's started 33 games...he's been in the league 4 years. It would have been more accurate to call him a part time starter

His first year starting was as a backup. The starter got injured. The one season he did get to start (last) they looked for a replacement that offseason. Career backup is a perfect description.

CEH
08-31-2009, 06:14 AM
Again, I don't want to rehash this... but I think there's more to it than just being able to say "see you at camp." I think money talks took place and both sides figured out very quickly they were in different places, and I think McDaniels and Co. may have also had some concerns about putting that kind of capital into a guy with Cutler's mentality.

That's my opinion, take it or leave it. I don't believe this was all just... "you called me a poo-poo face, I'm taking my toys and leaving."

I think what Cutler and Bus did was calculated and likely based on specific information, and the same for the Broncos front office.

As for winning a game, maybe we can let the season start and see what happens, first? Crazy, I know.

After what you saw on SUn night 3 first downs in the first half, a 98 yard drive by Cutler to end the half and the players resting THurs night you think they can just turn on a switch and play better.

I saw a QB missing wide open TE/WRs thats not scheme that execution.
I saw an offense failing to pick up a 3rd and 1
I saw a defense still confused where to line up. Thats an issue especially against a QB like Palmer. I saw a offense not attempt a pass over 7 yards the whole first half.

Orton has looked below average the whole preseason.

Even BDawk can't pull a rabbit out of his ass. He was dumbfounded after the game when Alfred asked him what he could do to get the players to play their responsiblities.

I'm scare to tell you the truth. I don't think they can just turn it on.

PRBronco
08-31-2009, 06:25 AM
Can anyone tell me when Cutler was officially designated by all members of the media as a "FRANCHISE QB"? ???

Last year he was just merely a "strong armed QB" ... but now he's talked about as if he's the NFL's best QB and a post-season veteran!?! WTF?

It happened when Tom Brady got hurt and Philip Rivers got robbed and all of a sudden Jay was in the Pro Bowl, that's when he realized he was worth so much more to the world.

Baba Booey
08-31-2009, 06:47 AM
Yeah, it was pretty disgusting.

Popcorn Sutton
08-31-2009, 07:07 AM
Sorry to go off topic but I did laugh when Collinsworth said Cutler has threesomes with Greg Olsen and his wife.

Carry on.

GoBroncos DownUnder
08-31-2009, 07:09 AM
Sorry to go off topic but I did laugh when Collinsworth said Cutler has threesomes with Greg Olsen and his wife.

Yeah I did too, the BEST part though was the awkward 3 seconds of silence after he realized what he had said! :spit:

BroncosCanada
08-31-2009, 07:11 AM
I like Chris C. He's generally a smart guy and gives good insight. I have no problem with people questioning the move, however... I'm not sure I buy his "just suspend him" theory.
I don't think Collinsworth is looking at the big picture as far as what went down, and where this team may end up in a couple of years.

People just want to make this about Jay v. Kyle. That's pure stupidity.

This argument should be this, plain and simple..

Does the collective group of moves made by the new Broncos staff make the team better or worse over a period of years.

That's it. Plain and simple. This isn't about one player. It's about the long-run and about what's best for the franchise. If Jay goes to 16 Pro Bowls from here out, I really don't care... as long as we get better. If he ends up in the CFL, I don't care... as long as we get better.

People trying to link this **** for all of eternity just aren't looking at the right picture.
It may be fun, or good TV... but McDaniels and Co. just want to win playoff games, as do most of the fans.

Great post Popps. I don't usually comment anymore, but I think you nailed here. Cheers.

loborugger
08-31-2009, 07:12 AM
I found his statement about franchise QBs in Denver to be exceptionally stupid. It went something like, "Well, they are used to franchise QBs in Denver & think they just go on trees & are easily replaced."

Name me one franchise QB in Denver's history - a 50 year history - that isnt named Elway. The club spent 10 years trying to replace Elway after he left. So, this whole absurd notion that Denver has franchise QBs in the wings, or has had them, or has a casual attitude about them is lame.

spdirty
08-31-2009, 07:12 AM
Does the collective group of moves made by the new Broncos staff make the team better or worse over a period of years.
I dont see how they do. The defense looks a little better with Dumervil at OLB, Dawkins will be good for maybe 2 years. The offense looks terrible, and if you dont have a quarterbackj you dont have shlt, and if they lose one of the most talented wideouts in the league I dont see how that helps their offense over a period of years.

No way the defense gets out of the lower 20s in points allowed or yards allowed or turnovers (have they even forced one yet?) the next couple years. Especially with our front office putting a higher priority on running back than front 7.

Popcorn Sutton
08-31-2009, 07:16 AM
FWIW a quote from Collinsworth at the end of last year:

Cris Collinsworth said he thought Shanahan "was the coach of the year." The final three weeks were a disaster but overall improvement was noticeable.

Hogan11
08-31-2009, 07:16 AM
Chris "holier than thou" Collingsworth is damn near insufferable, always has been.

Rohirrim
08-31-2009, 07:47 AM
I can't stand Collingsworth. To hear him tell it, McD deliberately ran Cutler out of town for spite. As if Cutler had no input in the decision whatsoever. Yeah. Right. Poor, innocent Cutler. Notice that when Andrea whats-her-face interviewed Cutler on the sidelines she said, "You forced your way out of Denver... blah, blah, blah." Cutler's response was, "Well, it's a business, blah, blah, blah." I found it interesting. Chris is another one of those announcers who always find their own voice more interesting than the game they are watching.

s0phr0syne
08-31-2009, 07:58 AM
What's funny is that if you go to a Bears board, they're threads about how much Collingsworth was bashing Cutler.

Don't be such sensitive-Sally's.

Broncos4tw
08-31-2009, 08:10 AM
If they had wanted to keep Cutler, they could have, make no mistake. McD's ego didn't allow for this unforunately. Petulant? Whiny? Who cares... kiss his ass and keep him on the team, after you blundered by trying to trade for a NE player. Trying to overhaul an offense that needed tweaking at best. Now our offense is falling apart. I expected him to come in, shore up the offense and make it stronger, AND improve D. Not marginally improve the D, and drop the offense back many years in the process.

Who cares what the announcers say. Why don't you have the AM on instead? I try not to listen to the announcers, they are usually full of bunk and senseless blabbling. But Cutler IS a good QB, there is no denying it.

Popcorn Sutton
08-31-2009, 08:18 AM
If they had wanted to keep Cutler, they could have, make no mistake. McD's ego didn't allow for this unforunately. Petulant? Whiny? Who cares... kiss his ass and keep him on the team, after you blundered by trying to trade for a NE player. Trying to overhaul an offense that needed tweaking at best. Now our offense is falling apart. I expected him to come in, shore up the offense and make it stronger, AND improve D. Not marginally improve the D, and drop the offense back many years in the process.

Who cares what the announcers say. Why don't you have the AM on instead? I try not to listen to the announcers, they are usually full of bunk and senseless blabbling. But Cutler IS a good QB, there is no denying it.

From where I sit it seemed more like Bowlens ego did not allow for Cutler to remain on the team.

It seemed to me that McDaniels was all set to move forward until Bowlen got his panties in a wad when Jay wouldn't return his calls.

PRBronco
08-31-2009, 08:23 AM
Seriously though, Collinsworth was driving me berserk last night. Here's how he called the game:
-someone would say something about anything
-he would growl "yeah but tell me this, if (retarded scenario that would never happen, and didn't happen, so why is he talking about it) happens...is Jay Cutler still a Bronco?"
-I would flip the **** out and mute the tv again

I'm serious when did he forget how to talk? Is he partially rabid? Who talks like that?

GoBroncos DownUnder
08-31-2009, 08:34 AM
I'm serious when did he forget how to talk? Is he partially rabid? Who talks like that?
It's the ghost of the deceased MNF commentator - Tony Kornheiser!! Boooooooooo!http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/smiley-faces48.gif

jhns
08-31-2009, 08:40 AM
Seriously though, Collinsworth was driving me berserk last night. Here's how he called the game:
-someone would say something about anything
-he would growl "yeah but tell me this, if (retarded scenario that would never happen, and didn't happen, so why is he talking about it) happens...is Jay Cutler still a Bronco?"
-I would flip the **** out and mute the tv again

I'm serious when did he forget how to talk? Is he partially rabid? Who talks like that?

You better get used to it because this will go on all season. This will probably go on for years.

PRBronco
08-31-2009, 08:53 AM
You better get used to it because this will go on all season. This will probably go on for years.

This is ruining my new HDtv experience for me :( Good thing I didn't invest in a sweet sound system.

Popps
08-31-2009, 09:51 AM
At least by trading him we got a servicable QB who is 21-12 as a starter, two #1's and a 3rd.....Collinsworth's way we get zilch.

Yea, and that's the other thing about CC's argument... he gave no possibility to the concept of these draft picks helping us, or the team improving overall.

I get why the move looks questionable. I think it's fair to question it, particularly if you weren't a Broncos fan through the whole thing watching it play out. (To know all of the details.) I get questioning it.

But, to say there is only one possible outcome here is being a bit short-sighted. He's been around long enough and should know that.

cabronco
08-31-2009, 09:56 AM
Oh good it wasnt just me getting sick of Collingsworth regurgitating the Cutler trade, or any aspect about it, and how foolish Bowlen & McD are. Its fine to state your opinion but holy cow , I think he had a Jay Cutler bobble head in one hand & his junk in the other. Although I did agree w/ him regarding marshall and he didnt talk it into the ground.

tonngo0
08-31-2009, 10:03 AM
Again, I don't want to rehash this... but I think there's more to it than just being able to say "see you at camp." I think money talks took place and both sides figured out very quickly they were in different places, and I think McDaniels and Co. may have also had some concerns about putting that kind of capital into a guy with Cutler's mentality.

That's my opinion, take it or leave it. I don't believe this was all just... "you called me a poo-poo face, I'm taking my toys and leaving."

I think what Cutler and Bus did was calculated and likely based on specific information, and the same for the Broncos front office.

As for winning a game, maybe we can let the season start and see what happens, first? Crazy, I know.


How do you know money talks took place ? either way, if Cutler was still the Broncos' bq, I don't think BM situation is this bad.

azbroncfan
08-31-2009, 10:07 AM
I always laugh whenever a commentator says something negative about the broncos and someone starts up a thread. I hate this guy! He is a hack. He is a d&ck! He said something negative about my team. Whaaa! Whaaaa! Whaaaa!

hookemhess
08-31-2009, 10:17 AM
Some interesting comments from McD, via Peter King @ http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/08/30/mmqb/index.html?bcnn=yes

"Kyle was fine tonight,'' said McDaniels. "What was he, 12 of 16, something like that? [Exactly.] He's not our issue, and I don't believe he's going to be. He's a good player who knows what to do. He's accurate, he knows the offense, he's well-respected by the guys in the locker room. But it's hard to get into a rhythm when you have 10 penalties, six holding calls and put yourself in bad situations over and over again and it always seems like it's first-and-20.''

I mentioned to him that Cris Collinsworth made a good point on the telecast, saying he felt sorry for Orton, because Orton had nothing to do with this Cutler/Denver/McDaniels war and yet would probably be identified with it for the rest of his career.

"Well, I can tell you that certainly I don't feel sorry for Kyle Orton,'' said McDaniels, his voice rising an octave or two. "Kyle Orton is one tough son of a bitch. Kyle Orton doesn't feel sorry for himself, and no one feels sorry for him in our locker room. What he has here, both with the coaching staff and in the locker room, is a tremendous amount of respect.''

As for his own mental state after the public and private battering he's taken, the 33-year-old McDaniels sounded passionate. "I have never felt sorry, not once, for anything going on here. And certain not for myself,'' he said. "I love this game. I love this city. I love the passion of the fans. It was fantastic in that stadium tonight. And I'm blessed to have a chance to coach these players, in this city. I'm thrilled about the locker room we have and the kind of players we have. We're all in. I mean that. I was in the locker room tonight after the game, and I looked around, and I saw it. We're all in. We've got a veteran locker room with strong-minded people who care about winning and not all the BS.''

tonngo0
08-31-2009, 10:19 AM
Well I do feel sorry about Orton, Orton is a bystander in the Cutler fiasco.

Hogan11
08-31-2009, 10:29 AM
Some interesting comments from McD, via Peter King @ http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/08/30/mmqb/index.html?bcnn=yes

"Kyle was fine tonight,'' said McDaniels. "What was he, 12 of 16, something like that? [Exactly.] He's not our issue, and I don't believe he's going to be. He's a good player who knows what to do. He's accurate, he knows the offense, he's well-respected by the guys in the locker room. But it's hard to get into a rhythm when you have 10 penalties, six holding calls and put yourself in bad situations over and over again and it always seems like it's first-and-20.''

I mentioned to him that Cris Collinsworth made a good point on the telecast, saying he felt sorry for Orton, because Orton had nothing to do with this Cutler/Denver/McDaniels war and yet would probably be identified with it for the rest of his career.

"Well, I can tell you that certainly I don't feel sorry for Kyle Orton,'' said McDaniels, his voice rising an octave or two. "Kyle Orton is one tough son of a b****. Kyle Orton doesn't feel sorry for himself, and no one feels sorry for him in our locker room. What he has here, both with the coaching staff and in the locker room, is a tremendous amount of respect.''

As for his own mental state after the public and private battering he's taken, the 33-year-old McDaniels sounded passionate. "I have never felt sorry, not once, for anything going on here. And certain not for myself,'' he said. "I love this game. I love this city. I love the passion of the fans. It was fantastic in that stadium tonight. And I'm blessed to have a chance to coach these players, in this city. I'm thrilled about the locker room we have and the kind of players we have. We're all in. I mean that. I was in the locker room tonight after the game, and I looked around, and I saw it. We're all in. We've got a veteran locker room with strong-minded people who care about winning and not all the BS.''

How can anyone not like this guy? ???

BroncoMan4ever
08-31-2009, 11:53 AM
I always laugh whenever a commentator says something negative about the broncos and someone starts up a thread. I hate this guy! He is a hack. He is a d&ck! He said something negative about my team. Whaaa! Whaaaa! Whaaaa!

i didn't start the thread because i am upset the guy has a favorite player, but the dude was worse than Madden is with Favre.

he was talking Cutler up like he was a god and we are doomed to an eternity of suck without him and Chicago is now in line to begin a dynasty that will last the next 12 years.

Inkana7
08-31-2009, 12:03 PM
I hate Chris Collinsworth. He tries to make his commentary into some sort of ****ty stand-up routine, kind of like Trey Wingo. I always loathed him on "Football Night in America".

Blueflame
08-31-2009, 12:17 PM
Say Cutler retires instead of getting traded...then what? He'd be able to sign with another team anyways after he "unretires" like Brett Favre has numerous times...and then your searching the waiver wire for your starting QB...or if it happened before draft you'd have a rookie QB trying to run what is arguably the NFL's nost diverse offense.

At least by trading him we got a servicable QB who is 21-12 as a starter, two #1's and a 3rd.....Collinsworth's way we get zilch.

Again, Errand... Cutler said he had every intention of showing up for the mandatory camps. He wouldn't have done anything but show up if they had "played hardball" with him.

And even if he had opted to retire (not honoring his contract) then tried to come back, what team would have taken a risk in signing a player who would do that (plus... wouldn't the Broncos have then had a valid grievance against him and any new team he might have signed with? I think they would have)?

Blueflame
08-31-2009, 12:19 PM
BTW Blueflame...Orton isn't a career back-up. He's started 33 games...he's been in the league 4 years. It would have been more accurate to call him a part time starter

The reference was to Rodney Harrison's remark about McDaniels showing interest in Matt Cassel when he had Jay Cutler. If you don't like the term "career backup" take it up with Rodney; he's the man who used those exact words.

Chris
08-31-2009, 12:56 PM
Except Mcdaniels only listened to proposals after Cutler started bitching... and he never took those proposals seriously (NE claim this as well).

bronco militia
08-31-2009, 01:37 PM
****ler****er threesome

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DarkHorse30
08-31-2009, 02:11 PM
Yeah... well. The front office had all the leverage and Cutler/Cook had none. Cutler was under contract. If they wanted to keep him, they could have just said "see you at camp". As everyone in the booth concurred... it's inconceivable to even consider trading a franchise QB for a career backup.

As for winning a game... McD's team has had 3 opportunities now... 2 of them (9'ers, Chickens) against weaker teams than we'll face in the regular season. Crazy, I know.

The front office lost most of it's leverage when Cutler/Cook went public. Ditto Marshall. Bears are/were desperate for a QB and gave up quite a bit to get him....I wonder what the next lowest offer was, if there was one?

Blueflame
08-31-2009, 02:23 PM
The front office lost most of it's leverage when Cutler/Cook went public. Ditto Marshall. Bears are/were desperate for a QB and gave up quite a bit to get him....I wonder what the next lowest offer was, if there was one?

Had the front office just publicly stated "Jay Cutler is under contract and we will not be considering trading him"... I really do think that would have returned the leverage to the team. And Cutler would have shown up for the mandatory stuff just like he said he would (he would have had no other viable options if he still wanted to play professional football). But of course Marshall and his agent think the same tactic will work a second time... because it already worked once.

The point is... the front office had other options and he was traded for no reason other than "Pat Bowlen was angry". Had cooler heads prevailed, the situation could have played out differently.

DarkHorse30
08-31-2009, 03:09 PM
Had the front office just publicly stated "Jay Cutler is under contract and we will not be considering trading him"... I really do think that would have returned the leverage to the team. And Cutler would have shown up for the mandatory stuff just like he said he would (he would have had no other viable options if he still wanted to play professional football). But of course Marshall and his agent think the same tactic will work a second time... because it already worked once.

The point is... the front office had other options and he was traded for no reason other than "Pat Bowlen was angry". Had cooler heads prevailed, the situation could have played out differently.

I don't think you're being fair to Bowlen. The guy has built one of the most successful NFL franchises west of the mississippi, and has rarely lost his cool. I can't remember ONE time.

You have to remember that Cutler had developed a hot head, while catfighting with Rivers, and couldn't win big games. Great arm, but a bit of a headcase. Then his comments after Shanahan was fired....then trying to sell his homes BEFORE the trade (which would further drop his value)......do you expect an established owner with a lot of credibility to continue to pander to this guy? Hell no.

Should Bowlen pander to Marshall? No....then why pander to a guy that OBVIOUSLY doesn't want to be part of the team?

colonelbeef
08-31-2009, 04:25 PM
Dear morons,

we traded a top5 player in the league because our fo was dumb enough to let the trade rumors leak, and then even dumber for trying to lie about it.

The broncos used to be renowned for good decision making. that's over now.

Losing cutler was colossally stupid. Get used to this fact. (popps and the hide behind mommys skirt crew- take notice.)

regards,

unfortunate reality.

Hamrob
08-31-2009, 06:18 PM
I like Chris C. He's generally a smart guy and gives good insight. I have no problem with people questioning the move, however... I'm not sure I buy his "just suspend him" theory.
I don't think Collinsworth is looking at the big picture as far as what went down, and where this team may end up in a couple of years.

People just want to make this about Jay v. Kyle. That's pure stupidity.

This argument should be this, plain and simple..

Does the collective group of moves made by the new Broncos staff make the team better or worse over a period of years.

That's it. Plain and simple. This isn't about one player. It's about the long-run and about what's best for the franchise. If Jay goes to 16 Pro Bowls from here out, I really don't care... as long as we get better. If he ends up in the CFL, I don't care... as long as we get better.

People trying to link this **** for all of eternity just aren't looking at the right picture.
It may be fun, or good TV... but McDaniels and Co. just want to win playoff games, as do most of the fans.I agree with your thought process. However, do you really believe that Bowlen is willing to invest years to turn this thing around? I mean he fired Shanny because we weren't winning (i.e. no playoff games), why would he be willing to continue the losing ways...in hopes of some day turning it around? I'd have to believe that "The Coach" gets this year and next and thats it.

Hamrob
08-31-2009, 06:21 PM
Exactly. There are some very natural reactions that seem to be driving a lot of how people interpret the trade. First, people instantly want to make direct comparisons: how Jay does vs how his replacement (Orton) does.

This just seems like the obvious way to view things (and it's a very convenient of simplifying complicated events to fit a media blurb). It's stupid, though, to reduce this to a QB swap: Chicago gave up the equivalent of an entire draft class for Cutler (at least).

To gauge what Denver actually received will require following several young players for several years. This is a lot more difficult than putting Orton's stats next to Cutler's every week (which, God knows, we'll see plenty of this year), but it's closer to the truth of the matter.

The good news is that, ultimately, it isn't a complicated matter. If the Broncos become a consistent playoff contender again, then we'll have the only verdict we need. It won't necessarily be a verdict that we were "right" to trade Jay or that the players we received were the key to winning. But it would show something more important: that the staff has made the team better, despite whatever turmoil came in the process.

No guarantee that's how it will play out, but untilSo, if we keep losing....what verdict is that?

Hamrob
08-31-2009, 06:22 PM
Dear morons,

we traded a top5 player in the league because our fo was dumb enough to let the trade rumors leak, and then even dumber for trying to lie about it.

The broncos used to be renowned for good decision making. that's over now.

Losing cutler was colossally stupid. Get used to this fact. (popps and the hide behind mommys skirt crew- take notice.)

regards,

unfortunate reality.Love it. Reality bites!

Bronco Yoda
08-31-2009, 07:15 PM
It should be painfully obvious to everyone by now that Bowlen had lost a lot of faith in Cutler at the end of the season. Right or wrong, if he had thought Cutler was THE answer, then he would have probably placated him more.... period. He would have been off limits to McD no matter what.... and he'd probably kissed his butt all day long.

This isn't Pat's first Rodeo.

Do I like how things turned out? Hell no. But I'm sure we don't know half the details either.

SouthStndJunkie
08-31-2009, 07:17 PM
I thought Collinsworth was dead on last night with his observations.

orinjkrush
08-31-2009, 07:19 PM
Chris C has more common sense than 98% of the posters on every fan board. As a player and as a hoooman.

He's almost as good as MAAAADDENNNNNNNN.

Chris
08-31-2009, 07:30 PM
The one true thing we learned last night - Collinsworth goes to bed before 11. The man can't be trusted.

steeledude
08-31-2009, 07:37 PM
Collinsworth was knowledgeable enough to point out how much it hurt losing Hillis last year. A lot of national media seem to be oblivious to this. The beginning and end of last season seems to get most of the attention. Hillis' stretch of brilliance was sandwiched between that and is often overlooked. Collinsworth won big points for knowing that.

Go Gators!

Yeah Collinsworth mentioning Hillis and his injury just showed how knowledgeable he was. Cutler couldn't overcome no running game and a porous defense. Losing Hillis put the nail in the coffin, and I was actually surprised how the announcers even knew Hillis had been a running back for us.

Blueflame
08-31-2009, 11:12 PM
I don't think you're being fair to Bowlen. The guy has built one of the most successful NFL franchises west of the mississippi, and has rarely lost his cool. I can't remember ONE time.

You have to remember that Cutler had developed a hot head, while catfighting with Rivers, and couldn't win big games. Great arm, but a bit of a headcase. Then his comments after Shanahan was fired....then trying to sell his homes BEFORE the trade (which would further drop his value)......do you expect an established owner with a lot of credibility to continue to pander to this guy? Hell no.

Should Bowlen pander to Marshall? No....then why pander to a guy that OBVIOUSLY doesn't want to be part of the team?

Guess we'll just see the situation differently... it seems pretty clear to me that trading away Cutler would hurt the team; yet Pat still chose to do it, even though he had other options. And now Marshall wants out too... and is following the exact same pattern that has already succeeded. Will others try the same tactics if Brandon is also successful in "forcing" a trade?