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garandman
08-30-2009, 09:03 PM
Well, it's painfully obvious now that Cutler appears to be a great QB (duh) and we made a mistake letting him go.
Collingsworth was spot on in expressing how this should have been handled differently, suspending Cutler and not letting him go would have been the way to go. It's going to be a long season guys.. Face it...

Flame away, I don't care. Keep defending McD all season as we become the new insignificant franchise of the NFL, replacing the Raiders...

We can all pretend that this is part of rebuilding a franchise, maybe it is, but we extended that rebuild much longer throwing away a great QB.


What a disaster, we deserve much better...

lex
08-30-2009, 09:10 PM
Well, it's painfully obvious now that Cutler appears to be a great QB (duh) and we made a mistake letting him go.
Collingsworth was spot on in expressing how this should have been handled differently, suspending Cutler and not letting him go would have been the way to go. It's going to be a long season guys.. Face it...

Flame away, I don't care. Keep defending McD all season as we become the new insignificant franchise of the NFL, replacing the Raiders...

We can all pretend that this is part of rebuilding a franchise, maybe it is, but we extended that rebuild much longer throwing away a great QB.


What a disaster, we deserve much better...

I agree with you, especially the last sentence, but there was no justification for suspending Cutler.

Florida_Bronco
08-30-2009, 09:18 PM
You mean the same guy who was getting punked by our defense until the very last drive?

Oh yeah man, that was a great QB there! We're lost without him!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

atomicbloke
08-30-2009, 09:26 PM
Why do people think this embarrassment will end in a season? Cutler will be in the league for at least 15 years.... and will be a painful reminder to our stupidity for a long long time....

As the announcers said today, this boneheaded trade is unparalleled in the history of any professional sports till date.....

lex
08-30-2009, 09:28 PM
Why do people think this embarrassment will end in a season? Cutler will be in the league for at least 15 years.... and will be a painful reminder to our stupidity for a long long time....

As the announcers said today, this boneheaded trade is unparalleled in the history of any professional sports till date.....

No, does "The Curse of Cutler" ring any bells?

Blueflame
08-30-2009, 09:29 PM
I agree with you, especially the last sentence, but there was no justification for suspending Cutler.

Then instead of throwing his own temper fit, Bowlen should have just said "see you in camp"... had his bluff been called, Cutler would have shown up for the mandatory camps... and then we wouldn't be seeing the (deja vu) same damn situation with Marshall (which is only happening because the precedent has already been set; the petulance worked for Cutler).

Our team will be better (offense more potent) with Marshall. And it would have been much better with Cutler too. It's unfortunate for the team that better diplomacy/tactics weren't utilized (cooler heads didn't prevail).

Williams
08-30-2009, 09:39 PM
Keep defending McD all season as we become the new insignificant franchise of the NFL, replacing the Raiders...

Uhh

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DarkHorse30
08-30-2009, 09:45 PM
Cutler has gone his own way.....you can't convince me that he wanted to stay in Denver. Too much pressure measuring up to Elway.

I'm sure he's better off in Chicago where the pressure is nearly non-existent, and he has assumed god-status....just ask anybody who saw him do an average job tonight against a defense that was ranked last in scores given up in the year previous. Except for Hester's return that set up the first TD, I saw him underthrow wrs when pressured (thank you Brian Dawkins) and benefit from Hochuli NOT calling a hold on Pace before Dumervil knocked him around in his own endzone. Is that the all-world performance Chicago was expecting? Pretty blah if you ask me....especially for a guy that has already assumed HOF status without producing a winning season in his first 2.5 years

Rigs11
08-30-2009, 09:46 PM
wow he scored a td in preseason. He is a god!I'm so sick of these cutler fanboys.

Blueflame
08-30-2009, 09:52 PM
Cutler has gone his own way.....you can't convince me that he wanted to stay in Denver. Too much pressure measuring up to Elway.

I'm sure he's better off in Chicago where the pressure is nearly non-existent, and he has assumed god-status....just ask anybody who saw him do an average job tonight against a defense that was ranked last in scores given up in the year previous. Except for Hester's return that set up the first TD, I saw him underthrow wrs when pressured (thank you Brian Dawkins) and benefit from Hochuli NOT calling a hold on Pace before Dumervil knocked him around in his own endzone. Is that the all-world performance Chicago was expecting? Pretty blah if you ask me....especially for a guy that has already assumed HOF status without producing a winning season in his first 2.5 years

The point is... what Cutler wanted shouldn't have mattered; he was under contract and had no leverage to "force" anything if the front office had really wanted to keep him. The tactics he employed (and that Brandon is now trying) wouldn't have been effective except that the front office allowed them to be.

Pseudofool
08-30-2009, 09:55 PM
He had one good drive. What, out of four or five? Against our supposed swiss-cheese defense. Yup.

kamakazi_kal
08-30-2009, 09:55 PM
Cutler has gone his own way.....you can't convince me that he wanted to stay in Denver. Too much pressure measuring up to Elway.
I'm sure he's better off in Chicago where the pressure is nearly non-existent, and he has assumed god-status....just ask anybody who saw him do an average job tonight against a defense that was ranked last in scores given up in the year previous. Except for Hester's return that set up the first TD, I saw him underthrow wrs when pressured (thank you Brian Dawkins) and benefit from Hochuli NOT calling a hold on Pace before Dumervil knocked him around in his own endzone. Is that the all-world performance Chicago was expecting? Pretty blah if you ask me....especially for a guy that has already assumed HOF status without producing a winning season in his first 2.5 years

stopped here.....

serious.....he was the one....he knows it and in about 2 seasons eveyone here will too. The guy maybe a complete douche .....yeah he is ..... but the guy can throw the pill.''

it's revenge for getting elway in the colts trade .... im tellin you.

bpc
08-30-2009, 10:02 PM
The worst part about how McDaniels has handled both situation is he's been patient, almost to a fault with Brandon Marshall before video finally made the FO act. With Jay, he said he would show up for mandatory team functions but wouldn't be there for voluntary WO's. McDaniels went on to egg him on, bait him and all that.

Josh has a lot of growing up to do as a head coach. He's definitely been pushing the wrong buttons this offseason.

Jay got the last laugh tonight, and he will this season as Chicago should contend for the NFC with a potent offense, defense and special teams... 2/3's of what he never had here in Denver as he was expected to shoulder the load as a 2nd year starter.

Elway777
08-30-2009, 10:08 PM
Trading Cutler was one of the worst trades in nfl history. I still a Bronco fan and hope that the Broncos rebuild the team to compete for a Super bowl. It would have been fun to see Cutler and Marshall in McIdiot System but we can't change the past.

Blueflame
08-30-2009, 10:19 PM
The worst part about how McDaniels has handled both situation is he's been patient, almost to a fault with Brandon Marshall before video finally made the FO act. With Jay, he said he would show up for mandatory team functions but wouldn't be there for voluntary WO's. McDaniels went on to egg him on, bait him and all that.

Josh has a lot of growing up to do as a head coach. He's definitely been pushing the wrong buttons this offseason.

Jay got the last laugh tonight, and he will this season as Chicago should contend for the NFC with a potent offense, defense and special teams... 2/3's of what he never had here in Denver as he was expected to shoulder the load as a 2nd year starter.

I think McDaniels is baiting Marshall too... I mean, really. Favre and Vick cannot possibly have known their playbooks any better than Marshall would have... yet they were running with the starters and played in the very first exhibition games after they signed with the Vikes/Eagles (respectively). I don't buy the claim that "he can't practice with the starters because he doesn't know the playbook"... that's what preseason is for (getting to know the offense) and it can't be done anywhere near as effectively when the coach demotes a player the way McDaniels did.

BroncoMan4ever
08-30-2009, 10:44 PM
You mean the same guy who was getting punked by our defense until the very last drive?

Oh yeah man, that was a great QB there! We're lost without him!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

i'm with you. until the final drive of the half he was nothing special. it isn't like he came out and went 20-20 for 300 yards and 4 TDs, he had an ok game.

so many people are still so enamored with the guy and biter that he isn't here that they see decent play from him as HOF worthy.

enjolras
08-30-2009, 11:13 PM
Again... Playing quarterback is not merely throwing the football. To me, Cutler is the Vince Carter of football. Sure he looks pretty, but that doesn't mean he makes your team immeasurably better. Unlike Carter, I think he often makes it worse.

Cutler is not Elway (or even Tom Brady)...and he never will be.

And yes: this is an opinion I expressed while he still wore a Bronco uniform.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-30-2009, 11:16 PM
I'd say it's Cutler 2, Broncos FO 0.

gtown
08-30-2009, 11:21 PM
Trading Cutler was one of the worst trades in nfl history. I still a Bronco fan and hope that the Broncos rebuild the team to compete for a Super bowl. It would have been fun to see Cutler and Marshall in McIdiot System but we can't change the past.

The jury is still out on that and will be for quite some time as we see how Orton, Ayers, Smith, and Quinn proceed.

Cutler would chafe under the McD system, but Marshall would be a YAC beast. Cutler would be bitchin about too many checkdowns and screens.

azbroncfan
08-30-2009, 11:25 PM
Whether or not you like Cutler or not and I don't, watching the game and it was easy to see what team had the better QB.

Merlin
08-30-2009, 11:26 PM
To me, Cutler is the Vince Carter of football. Sure he looks pretty, but that doesn't mean he makes your team immeasurably better. Unlike Carter, I think he often makes it worse.
The hypocrisy in this forum is utterly amazing. The common refrain last yr was how Cutler virtually carried the team, and the only reason they were in the running for the division crown was because of his play. The D and ST conspired to lose games, and it was always incumbent upon him to find ways to win. Now the refrain is how pathetic he was, and how erodes a team. Many here care very little about their credibility over time.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-30-2009, 11:27 PM
Whether or not you like Cutler or not and I don't, watching the game and it was easy to see what team had the better QB.

Seriously, when did this turn into an Orton vs Cutler debate as if they were traded for each other straight up. No ****ing **** cutler is the better qb

Popps
08-30-2009, 11:28 PM
wow he scored a td in preseason. He is a god!I'm so sick of these cutler fanboys.

Dude, the franchise is set back 50 years. Face it.

(That's a very real, literal quote from one of these guys.)

UberBroncoMan
08-30-2009, 11:30 PM
The facts are the facts and if I was offered Jay Cutler for Ayers, Orton, and Smith (using Smith since we traded a 1st rounder next year), and a 3rd.

I'd take the young franchise QB in Jay Cutler.

Ayers has been a disappointment... he can't even beat out Mario. Smith hasn't wowed... and I guess Quinn is 1/2 the 3rd rounder and he's been meh.

Orton has done nothing to excite me with his noodle arm throws, bad decision making, and the fact that we've literally been limited to being a dink/dunk offense.

If you don't want Cutler you're not using logic you're only using your hate of him.

Elway777
08-30-2009, 11:44 PM
The facts are the facts and if I was offered Jay Cutler for Ayers, Orton, and Smith (using Smith since we traded a 1st rounder next year), and a 3rd.

I'd take the young franchise QB in Jay Cutler.

Ayers has been a disappointment... he can't even beat out Mario. Smith hasn't wowed... and I guess Quinn is 1/2 the 3rd rounder and he's been meh.

Orton has done nothing to excite me with his noodle arm throws, bad decision making, and the fact that we've literally been limited to being a dink/dunk offense.

If you don't want Cutler you're not using logic you're only using your hate of him.
I totally agree with everything you said. Also trading Cutler made Marshall go crazy and the Broncos could also loose Marshall. The Broncos would be a top 5 offence with Cutler ,Marshall and McIdiots system. The Broncos would of been fun to watch and might of been a superbowl contender in a couple of years. Anybody that says Culter would not have do good in McIdiots system is crazy.

Kid A
08-30-2009, 11:50 PM
Ayers has been a disappointment... he can't even beat out Mario. Smith hasn't wowed... and I guess Quinn is 1/2 the 3rd rounder and he's been meh.

You forgot Moreno, he hasn't done jack on the field! Guess that makes him a disappointment too, right?

I mean if you're going to label Ayers a "disappointment" after three (THREE!) preseason games, I suppose we can call Knowshon "fragile" or "injury prone." I mean, he's been injured in 100% of the games he's played in!

Look, in a few years there very well may be a case to be made that we lost the trade badly; that all the draft picks were underwhelming and Cutler went on to live up to his highest potential. Honestly, I can see it happening.

But that time hasn't arrived. It hasn't even come close to arriving. If you want to bemoan the loss of Jay or say a young pro bowl QB should never be traded, fair enough. But trying to show we "lost" the trade by ripping the rookie class before they are even out of their first preseason? Come on.

lazarus4444
08-31-2009, 12:13 AM
Cutler will fail, I have no doubt. His fragile psyche cannot stand up to the pressure. He is a loser that hasn't won **** since high school. If everything is going well in his favor he is fine but when emo cutler comes out after an int or a wr fumbles the ball and chi sees his pouty little face look like its about to cry and his play goes downhill....THAT is when they will know what they have.

Cutler will continue to amaze with his athletic ability and his arm but he doesn't have it upstairs to be a great one. And honestly, he didn't deserve to go to the pro bowl last year and i hate how everybody touts the pro bowl as a way to say a player is good. You are good if you make 1st or 2nd all pro team. The pro bowl is just an overrated after thought of an abortion of a game designed to squeeze every last drop out of a season and to give some players a vacation.

/rant

azbroncfan
08-31-2009, 09:24 AM
Seriously, when did this turn into an Orton vs Cutler debate as if they were traded for each other straight up. No ****ing **** cutler is the better qb

As much as I dislike Cutler I am not going to sit here and make excuses and rationalize that this team is better without him. Now next offseason a QB most likely will have to be acquired and if it's a rookie it will take 3 years to see if he is any good. This team is years away from competing and now the competition is with KC and Oakland for staying out of the cellar.

fontaine
08-31-2009, 09:37 AM
I don't think this franchise is set back with the Cutler trade.

It sucks to lose a possible perennial pro bowler like Cutler, but even WITH Cutler on board our defense was always going to take at least 2 years to fix and it was doubtful we were going to make a serious run with the kind of gutter scraping D we've had the last couple of years.

If Boreton can show something this year, fine. If not then we need to dump him and move on.

Rulon Velvet Jones
08-31-2009, 09:43 AM
If Doom could get to Cutler that easily last night, I can only imagine the beating he'll take when facing the Vikings 2x/year.

If you're going to be a fan of Cutler's, then go ahead. You should, though, wish nothing but bad luck to him and the Bears this season so the Broncos can benefit from a better draft pick. After that - cheer away.

RaiderH8r
08-31-2009, 09:52 AM
If Doom could get to Cutler that easily last night, I can only imagine the beating he'll take when facing the Vikings 2x/year.

If you're going to be a fan of Cutler's, then go ahead. You should, though, wish nothing but bad luck to him and the Bears this season so the Broncos can benefit from a better draft pick. After that - cheer away.

What we could use is two first round picks next year. Man that would be sweet. OR we could use one of those first round picks to move into this year's second round to draft a DB that was beaten like a drum last night. Well f'ing playes gentlemen, well played indeed.

Garcia Bronco
08-31-2009, 09:52 AM
Cutler would not talk with the team and blew them off. He put his house on the market and ASKED for a trade once Bates was let go. Collinsworth doesn't have the facts. Good gawd how many different ways can this story be told wrong?

bronclvr
08-31-2009, 09:55 AM
Meh,

We are rebuilding, and this will be a bad Year-we've had 'em before, and we will them again-I've lived through the last ones, so this is nothing new.

All of the Cutler talk will stop when we get the "new" Elway-don't know when that will be, but I can wait-I do miss Cutler on the Field (well, sometimes), but I don't miss him off. I still can't put a finger on what I don't like about him, but I noticed it last Year (on his TV Show), and, there is something going on behind those eyes I just don't like-

Move on with your life, guys-this is just going to be one of those Years-

BroncoBuff
08-31-2009, 09:58 AM
Well, it's painfully obvious now that Cutler appears to be a great QB (duh) and we made a mistake letting him go.

Collingsworth was spot on in expressing how this should have been handled differently, suspending Cutler and not letting him go would have been the way to go. It's going to be a long season guys.. Face it...

Agree with your premise, and yes Collinsworth was correct, it was a mistake. I "faced" that a long time ago.

But unless you're gonna quit the Broncos (I'm not), then we really must move on. So, rather than subjecting ourselves to the cruel frustration of focusing on how good Jay is, I suggest we focus on Ayers and Alphonso. And I suppose Orton. That's what we got in return.

Kid A
08-31-2009, 10:03 AM
Could the media get any lazier in evaluating this situation?: http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/1744364,CST-SPT-bside31x.article

The outcome seemed to confirm the Bears got the better end of the April 2 deal that had the teams swapping QBs and draft picks.

I swear, while I understand the human urge to have immediate resolution ("we have to know who won the trade...RIGHT NOW!"), this has become a joke on the media's part. Nevermind there are still a dozen ****ing questions left to be answered:

-How does Ayers pan out in the longterm?
-How does Alphonso (or who ever we pick in the first next year) pan out?
-Does Orton learn the system well and operate the Broncos offense effectively?
-Will Cutler cut down on the mistakes and become consistent enough to be a truly elite QB?

And on and on. But man, didn't you see that 98 yd drive by Cutler!? We have a verdict! Sleep easy tonight, Chicago. You didn't just win a preseason game--you officially won the Cutler trade!

BroncoBuff
08-31-2009, 10:05 AM
Cutler would not talk with the team and blew them off. He put his house on the market and ASKED for a trade once Bates was let go. Collinsworth doesn't have the facts. Good gawd how many different ways can this story be told wrong?
Dude, he KNOWS all that. As he very correctly pointed out, we should have then treated Jay the same way we're treating Brandon now. There's very little difference between the situations ... each a world-class player in mid-tantrum, each with little if any leverage against the team.

Jay is a very smart guy, he would've come around. He stated he would show up for every mandatory function, and I believed him. The smart move would've been to back away from a month, let the smoke clear. Then see what happened at mini-camp.

The Big E
08-31-2009, 10:06 AM
Cutler is obviously better than any QB in Denver and everyone knows what he's capable of doing. However, I didn't think he looked that great last night. On the one good drive he had, he should've been picked off on his own 10 yard line (dropped of course). That would have changed the whole perception. Not that this game meant anything.

Eventually Cutler will have problems in Chicago, IMO, because unfortunately his petulant baby behavior in Denver ultimately got him what he wanted. The time will come where he will resort to it again.

Beantown Bronco
08-31-2009, 10:07 AM
You should, though, wish nothing but bad luck to him and the Bears this season so the Broncos can benefit from a better draft pick. After that - cheer away.

If the Bears start off 0-6 or something like that, and it starts to look like the Bears might be picking in the top 10, you can bet the house that he'll trade that pick away for some other Patriot backup player. :wiggle:

bronclvr
08-31-2009, 10:10 AM
Is this a Bears Forum or a Broncos Forum? Hard to tell from the Posts-

rastaman
08-31-2009, 10:12 AM
Again... Playing quarterback is not merely throwing the football. To me, Cutler is the Vince Carter of football. Sure he looks pretty, but that doesn't mean he makes your team immeasurably better. Unlike Carter, I think he often makes it worse.

Cutler is not Elway (or even Tom Brady)...and he never will be.

And yes: this is an opinion I expressed while he still wore a Bronco uniform.

I guess you can also agree that Orton has already reached his ceiling of potential-greatness, and what we see is what we will get out of him.

Garcia Bronco
08-31-2009, 10:23 AM
Dude, he KNOWS all that. As he very correctly pointed out, we should have then treated Jay the same way we're treating Brandon now. There's very little difference between the situations ... each a world-class player in mid-tantrum, each with little if any leverage against the team.

Jay is a very smart guy, he would've come around. He stated he would show up for every mandatory function, and I believed him. The smart move would've been to back away from a month, let the smoke clear. Then see what happened at mini-camp.

The point they clearly leave ou tis that Cutler demanded a trade long before Tampa Bay called about a 3-way trade.

rastaman
08-31-2009, 10:37 AM
Cutler would not talk with the team and blew them off. He put his house on the market and ASKED for a trade once Bates was let go. Collinsworth doesn't have the facts. Good gawd how many different ways can this story be told wrong?

Garcia you're not telling the complete truth here. Here is what Cutler had to say --

Jay Cutler --

I went in there with every intention of solving the issue, being a Bronco, moving forward as a Bronco. We weren't in there but about 20 minutes, [McDaniels] did most of the talking and as far as I'm concerned, he made it clear he wants his own guy. He (McDaniel's) admitted he wanted Matt Cassel because he said he has raised him up from the ground as a quarterback. He said he wasn't sorry about it. He made it clear that he could still entertain trading me because, as he put it, he'll do whatever he feels is in the best interest of the organization.

At the end of the meeting, he wasn't like, 'Jay, I want you as our quarterback, you're our guy.' It felt like the opposite. He basically said that I needed to tell him if we can't work this out, to let him know. I thought he was antagonizing me and that was disappointing because I was ready to move on, committed as a Bronco. Really, I figured we'd hash things out, shake hands, laugh a little and move forward. What happened [on that Saturday] was the last thing I expected. If I didn't think it could be fixed, I never would have come back to Denver. It was painfully obvious to me and Bus [Cook, his agent] it's not something they want to fix.

So you see Garcia the story is quite different than from what you are saying. :peace:

enjolras
08-31-2009, 10:39 AM
The hypocrisy in this forum is utterly amazing. The common refrain last yr was how Cutler virtually carried the team, and the only reason they were in the running for the division crown was because of his play. The D and ST conspired to lose games, and it was always incumbent upon him to find ways to win. Now the refrain is how pathetic he was, and how erodes a team. Many here care very little about their credibility over time.

As I said in my post: As the season wore on last year I had this same opinion. I didn't (and still don't) think Cutler is the QB that people think he is. I'm no hypocrite.

BroncoBuff
08-31-2009, 10:41 AM
The point they clearly leave ou tis that Cutler demanded a trade long before Tampa Bay called about a 3-way trade.

I don't think that's accurate.

enjolras
08-31-2009, 10:42 AM
I swear, while I understand the human urge to have immediate resolution ("we have to know who won the trade...RIGHT NOW!"), this has become a joke on the media's part. Nevermind there are still a dozen ****ing questions left to be answered:

Yep. Remember when Mario Williams was taken ahead of Reggie Bush?

Media consensus: Texans absolutely 100% lost in that decision. What morons!!!

Reality: Mario Williams is an absolute beast. Reggie Bush... not so much.

Same thing.

enjolras
08-31-2009, 10:46 AM
I don't think that's accurate.

Except that it is. Here is the best summary of the situation I've been able to find:

http://www.michaellivingston.com/jay-cutler-kyle-orton-and-the-failure-of-the-media/
http://broncotalk.net/2009/03/king-cutler-requested-trade-after-oc-bates-fired/

Garcia Bronco
08-31-2009, 10:53 AM
Garcia you're not telling the complete truth here. Here is what Cutler had to say --

Jay Cutler --

I went in there with every intention of solving the issue, being a Bronco, moving forward as a Bronco. We weren't in there but about 20 minutes, [McDaniels] did most of the talking and as far as I'm concerned, he made it clear he wants his own guy. He (McDaniel's) admitted he wanted Matt Cassel because he said he has raised him up from the ground as a quarterback. He said he wasn't sorry about it. He made it clear that he could still entertain trading me because, as he put it, he'll do whatever he feels is in the best interest of the organization.

At the end of the meeting, he wasn't like, 'Jay, I want you as our quarterback, you're our guy.' It felt like the opposite. He basically said that I needed to tell him if we can't work this out, to let him know. I thought he was antagonizing me and that was disappointing because I was ready to move on, committed as a Bronco. Really, I figured we'd hash things out, shake hands, laugh a little and move forward. What happened [on that Saturday] was the last thing I expected. If I didn't think it could be fixed, I never would have come back to Denver. It was painfully obvious to me and Bus [Cook, his agent] it's not something they want to fix.

So you see Garcia the story is quite different than from what you are saying. :peace:

Cutler asked for a trade the day Bates was let go. This meeting you have cited up here happened after that.

Kid A
08-31-2009, 11:11 AM
Yep. Remember when Mario Williams was taken ahead of Reggie Bush?

Media consensus: Texans absolutely 100% lost in that decision. What morons!!!

Reality: Mario Williams is an absolute beast. Reggie Bush... not so much.

Same thing.

Sad thing is how little that is acknowledged. There is so much crow to go around on that draft (the media didn't just second guess the Texans, the eviscerated them for it).

Kid A
08-31-2009, 11:14 AM
Except that it is. Here is the best summary of the situation I've been able to find:

http://www.michaellivingston.com/jay-cutler-kyle-orton-and-the-failure-of-the-media/
http://broncotalk.net/2009/03/king-cutler-requested-trade-after-oc-bates-fired/

That first link is great. Or at least he's saying exactly what I have on this thread...which means he's a genius. :~ohyah!: