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BMarsh615
08-30-2009, 12:37 PM
Klis: Bowlen says labor costs big problem for NFL

Pat Bowlen seems to be signing more autographs than he has in past summers.

As they say, the Broncos' owner has learned to stop and smell the Sharpie as he's getting older.

Bowlen at 65 is as fit and trim as when he bought the Broncos 25 years ago, although in the context of the past three years, he has surprisingly been battling the Monfort brothers for the title of Denver's top sports owner.

Don't bellow, talk-show junkie. Bowlen himself has said, in so many words, the bottom line in sports is not found on a financial ledger sheet but in trophy inscriptions.

And the bottom line of the past three years is a World Series appearance and National League wild-card lead will beat no playoff appearances and the uncertainty of a new season every time.

Funny how an owner's wherewithal is never questioned until his team stops winning. Except for the Monforts. Whether in good times or bad, their spending will be fashionably judged as inadequate. Just saying.

Bowlen, though, is relatively new to financial examination. The Broncos haven't appeared in a playoff game since the 2005 season, and suddenly the town rumor has Bowlen in debt up to his strong jawline.

"No. That's not true," Bowlen said. "I don't think this is a secret but we're about fifth or sixth in revenue in the National Football League. We might be seventh now as new stadium revenue comes in somewhere, but the point is, our revenue base is right up there. We hold our own in that area."

That doesn't mean Bowlen and the Broncos haven't joined the rest of the country in cutting back on expenses the past year or two. Bowlen's primary financial challenge lies within the collective bargaining agreement that was negotiated by then lame-duck commissioner Paul Tagliabue and the late union leader Gene Upshaw.

At the behest of the NFL labor committee Bowlen heads, the owners voted to reopen the CBA last year. This means if the players don't agree to anew deal by 2011, they might not have a game to play that season.

"We're spending 60 percent of revenues on player salaries," Bowlen said. "That does not work. It's not where any one of the 32 teams want to be. And so the labor problem is a big problem. That's not just a Denver Bronco problem."

The league as a whole needs a new CBA, Bowlen says. But the only problem Bowlen has with the Broncos as a franchise is it hasn't won a Super Bowl trophy since the 1998 season.

Looking back.

Want a good laugh? Google back a year or so and read commentary of those who felt the Green Bay Packers were crazy for trading icon Brett Favre.

Never mind Favre's subsequent washed-up play. Have you noticed what Aaron Rodgers has done this preseason? Here are Rodgers' meaningless numbers: 27-of-38 for 458 yards, six touchdowns, zero interceptions and a 151.1 rating.

Yes, it's only preseason but in the semi-significant first half of their three preseason games, the Packers outscored Cleveland 14-0, Buffalo 24-0 and Arizona 38-10. That's a combined 76-10.

Goodness. Wishing all the best to Jay Cutler, but in the Bears' season opener in Green Bay, he'll be only the second-best quarterback playing at Lambeau Field.

From miracles to Cutler.

Al Michaels, who simply had the greatest sports broadcasting call of all-time — Do you believe in miracles? YES! — is in his 24th consecutive season of announcing NFL prime-time games.

So it means something when he says Cutler's return to Denver tonight makes for one of the most intriguing preseason games he's ever worked.

"It's always tough to find a hook for a preseason game," Michaels said this week. "You can kind of make stuff up and make a little bit more of it than really exists. But in this one, I can't think of a preseason game in all the years I've been doing prime-time football where you're going to have at least at the outset of the game — 'What's going to happen? What kind of reaction is Cutler going to get? How will he react back? Are they going to try and lay him out?' — a lot of stuff going on here. For a preseason game, this is probably as good as it gets."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_13231476?source=rss

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-30-2009, 12:53 PM
Lex's theories: Another one bites the dust.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNQRfBAzSzo

BroncoMan4ever
08-30-2009, 01:04 PM
i always found that odd that he would be broke. i know a lot of his money is Real Estate based, but with the Broncos being a borderline billion dollar franchise, and with the stadium revenues, merchandise, and sell outs to every home game, it always seemed like him being broke was bull****. i am glad he finally clarified it.

SoCalBronco
08-30-2009, 01:43 PM
He's not broke...he's just been a cheapskate in the last five years or so.

Man-Goblin
08-30-2009, 01:46 PM
Dude guarantees $120 million in one offseason and people think he's broke. Can we please put this thing to rest.

BroncoMan4ever
08-30-2009, 01:47 PM
He's not broke...he's just been a cheapskate in the last five years or so.

well when Mike has been flushing his money down the toilet on guys like Boss, our safeties from last year, the Browns DL(exception of Ekuban) and other turds, it is understandable that he would want to start holding back on the amount he is willing to spend.

SoCalBronco
08-30-2009, 01:50 PM
well when Mike has been flushing his money down the toilet on guys like Boss, our safeties from last year, the Browns DL(exception of Ekuban) and other turds, it is understandable that he would want to start holding back on the amount he is willing to spend.

Actually....Denver was 5th best in dollars per win ratio from 2004-2008 so there goes your theory.

DBroncos4life
08-30-2009, 01:52 PM
well when Mike has been flushing his money down the toilet on guys like Boss, our safeties from last year, the Browns DL(exception of Ekuban) and other turds, it is understandable that he would want to start holding back on the amount he is willing to spend.

Browns DL was the last time our D was good.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-30-2009, 02:08 PM
I still think he's broke

Beantown Bronco
08-30-2009, 02:13 PM
How exactly did he set the record straight? All he mentioned was revenue. That's a meaningless number without knowing the expenses.

You can be #1 in revenue, but if you are #1 in expenses and the expenses outweigh the revenue, and your other business aren't doing so well either, then you are broke.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-30-2009, 02:15 PM
I just think that in the past Bowlen would deal with the Cutler/Marshall situations by throwing money at the problem. I also believe he doesn't want to pay 2 1st rounders next year and thats why we made that trade.

tsiguy96
08-30-2009, 02:18 PM
Browns DL was the last time our D was good.

sad but true huh

DenverBrit
08-30-2009, 02:21 PM
I just think that in the past Bowlen would deal with the Cutler/Marshall situations by throwing money at the problem. I also believe he doesn't want to pay 2 1st rounders next year and thats why we made that trade.

That would probably be true of most owners.

The Rookie contracts are out of control and need to be reigned in.

I think trading Denver's first round pick instead of Chicago's was a calculated move to avoid a top 5 or 10 pick.

The #1 pick will be like a hot potato next year.

tsiguy96
08-30-2009, 02:23 PM
That would probably be true of most owners.

The Rookie contracts are out of control and need to be reigned in.

I think trading Denver's first round pick instead of Chicago's was a calculated move to avoid a top 5 or 10 pick.

The #1 pick will be like a hot potato next year.

i hate when people say its a potential 5 or 10 pick, of course fool its a potential #32 pick as well. it was done because they saw a player they liked and wanted him, not to avoid using all tehir firsts.

SoCalBronco
08-30-2009, 02:25 PM
of course fool its a potential #32 pick as well.

Does that mean that Bob is also a potential husband for a top flight model?







That's what I thought.

footstepsfrom#27
08-30-2009, 02:27 PM
Klis: Bowlen says labor costs big problem for NFL

Pat Bowlen seems to be signing more autographs than he has in past summers.

As they say, the Broncos' owner has learned to stop and smell the Sharpie as he's getting older.

Bowlen at 65 is as fit and trim as when he bought the Broncos 25 years ago, although in the context of the past three years, he has surprisingly been battling the Monfort brothers for the title of Denver's top sports owner.

Don't bellow, talk-show junkie. Bowlen himself has said, in so many words, the bottom line in sports is not found on a financial ledger sheet but in trophy inscriptions.

And the bottom line of the past three years is a World Series appearance and National League wild-card lead will beat no playoff appearances and the uncertainty of a new season every time.

Funny how an owner's wherewithal is never questioned until his team stops winning. Except for the Monforts. Whether in good times or bad, their spending will be fashionably judged as inadequate. Just saying.

Bowlen, though, is relatively new to financial examination. The Broncos haven't appeared in a playoff game since the 2005 season, and suddenly the town rumor has Bowlen in debt up to his strong jawline.

"No. That's not true," Bowlen said. "I don't think this is a secret but we're about fifth or sixth in revenue in the National Football League. We might be seventh now as new stadium revenue comes in somewhere, but the point is, our revenue base is right up there. We hold our own in that area."

That doesn't mean Bowlen and the Broncos haven't joined the rest of the country in cutting back on expenses the past year or two. Bowlen's primary financial challenge lies within the collective bargaining agreement that was negotiated by then lame-duck commissioner Paul Tagliabue and the late union leader Gene Upshaw.

At the behest of the NFL labor committee Bowlen heads, the owners voted to reopen the CBA last year. This means if the players don't agree to anew deal by 2011, they might not have a game to play that season.

"We're spending 60 percent of revenues on player salaries," Bowlen said. "That does not work. It's not where any one of the 32 teams want to be. And so the labor problem is a big problem. That's not just a Denver Bronco problem."

The league as a whole needs a new CBA, Bowlen says. But the only problem Bowlen has with the Broncos as a franchise is it hasn't won a Super Bowl trophy since the 1998 season.

Looking back.

Want a good laugh? Google back a year or so and read commentary of those who felt the Green Bay Packers were crazy for trading icon Brett Favre.

Never mind Favre's subsequent washed-up play. Have you noticed what Aaron Rodgers has done this preseason? Here are Rodgers' meaningless numbers: 27-of-38 for 458 yards, six touchdowns, zero interceptions and a 151.1 rating.

Yes, it's only preseason but in the semi-significant first half of their three preseason games, the Packers outscored Cleveland 14-0, Buffalo 24-0 and Arizona 38-10. That's a combined 76-10.

Goodness. Wishing all the best to Jay Cutler, but in the Bears' season opener in Green Bay, he'll be only the second-best quarterback playing at Lambeau Field.

From miracles to Cutler.

Al Michaels, who simply had the greatest sports broadcasting call of all-time Do you believe in miracles? YES! is in his 24th consecutive season of announcing NFL prime-time games.

So it means something when he says Cutler's return to Denver tonight makes for one of the most intriguing preseason games he's ever worked.

"It's always tough to find a hook for a preseason game," Michaels said this week. "You can kind of make stuff up and make a little bit more of it than really exists. But in this one, I can't think of a preseason game in all the years I've been doing prime-time football where you're going to have at least at the outset of the game 'What's going to happen? What kind of reaction is Cutler going to get? How will he react back? Are they going to try and lay him out?' a lot of stuff going on here. For a preseason game, this is probably as good as it gets."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_13231476?source=rss
I'm not sure I've ever read anything credible suggesting Bowlen was broke, and as the author of the only piece I know of on this board that has taken a hard look at the research on his finances, I never claimed Bowlen was "broke". That does not mean he's not having financial difficulties.

This article really tells us nothing about Bowlen's financial situation just because he claims they are 6th or 7th in revenue. Revenue doesn't tell us what his profit margin is. It doesn't tell us what his long term debt is or how it's being serviced, which is a huge consideration given how he bought this team on credit with very unfavorable terms. It doesn't tell us anything about his other business ventures that have been folded into the mix with the Broncos, and it doesn't tell us what percentage of the Broncos he now owns as opposed to his family members. It also doesn't tell us anything about how long Bowlen is commited to owning the Broncos at age 65. Legally, once he does decide to sell, which is not beyond possibility...he is obligated under the terms of his contractual relationship to offer the team to Edgar Kaiser first at the same rate he's offering it to any other buyer.

And THAT is very much a concern.

BroncoBuff
08-30-2009, 02:27 PM
We'll save alotta money not paying Cutler and Marshall ... both will be due massive raises next year. If we off Marshall,the savings from just those two salary bumps would be immense.

tsiguy96
08-30-2009, 02:31 PM
Does that mean that Bob is also a potential husband for a top flight model?







That's what I thought.

horrible analogy, quit saying stupid **** just to say it.

DenverBrit
08-30-2009, 02:32 PM
i hate when people say its a potential 5 or 10 pick, of course fool its a potential #32 pick as well. it was done because they saw a player they liked and wanted him, not to avoid using all tehir firsts.

The reality is that Denver's pick will probably be higher than Chicago's, and yes, Denver could, in theory have the 32nd pick.

Denver took a calculated risk when they traded....and Seattle probably held their feet to the fire as well.

There was a certain amount of confidence exhibited by trading the Denver pick ......expectations are important and send a message to the team.

TheReverend
08-30-2009, 02:37 PM
This:

of course fool its a potential #32 pick as well

Followed by this:

quit saying stupid **** just to say it.

Equals this:


http://i29.tinypic.com/21jqhc1.jpg

tsiguy96
08-30-2009, 02:39 PM
This:



Followed by this:



Equals this:


http://i29.tinypic.com/21jqhc1.jpg

you belong in this stupid **** posts too, with stuff like this. how does me saying that none of you ****ing retards have any clue how this team will finish this year, so saying its a top 5 pick is dumb, where as posts like this are useful for someone?

SoCalBronco
08-30-2009, 02:40 PM
horrible analogy, quit saying stupid **** just to say it.

No, its not. It's a pretty decent analogy, actually. It's more realistic than you implying that there's just as much potential for DEN to be at 32 than in the 5-10 area.

TheReverend
08-30-2009, 02:42 PM
you belong in this stupid **** posts too, with stuff like this. how does me saying that none of you ****ing retards have any clue how this team will finish this year, so saying its a top 5 pick is dumb, where as posts like this are useful for someone?

Very useful... one of the favorite past times of this off-season has been people laughing at you. Keep up the good work, tiger! :thumbsup:

tsiguy96
08-30-2009, 02:43 PM
No, its not. It's a pretty decent analogy, actually. It's more realistic than you implying that there's just as much potential for DEN to be at 32 than in the 5-10 area.

true, but to sit here and just talk like its a gauranteed 5-10 pick is dumb because it could very well be where weve been drafting the last several years, about #12 or wahtever. everytime someone uses that 5-10 analogy its because they are simultaneously talking about how bad this team will suck future is over gloom is upon us etc etc instead of reasonably looking that this team can win 7-10 games again.

broncofan7
08-30-2009, 02:43 PM
60% of revenues going to the players?--if that is indeed true--there is obviously going to be a lockout in 2011. The players will not be willing to decrease their 60% share of the pie and the owners I'd imagine want it around 51% -49% or sum such........try to enjoy Bronco football for the next two seasons...(despite our likelihood of struggling mightily these next 2 yrs...)

atomicbloke
08-30-2009, 02:43 PM
There was a certain amount of confidence exhibited by trading the Denver pick ......expectations are important and send a message to the team.

That is the only reason I can fathom for trading our pick instead of the Bears pick.

tsiguy96
08-30-2009, 02:45 PM
Very useful... one of the favorite past times of this off-season has been people laughing at you. Keep up the good work, tiger! :thumbsup:

they should be laughing at your pics. its funny, you think you are so big. you really, really need a reality check. my GF even laughed at your pics, a person whos 170 who thinks hes a monster in the weight room.

broncofan7
08-30-2009, 02:45 PM
The reality is that Denver's pick will probably be higher than Chicago's, and yes, Denver could, in theory have the 32nd pick.

Denver took a calculated risk when they traded....and Seattle probably held their feet to the fire as well.

There was a certain amount of confidence exhibited by trading the Denver pick ......expectations are important and send a message to the team.

What are the expectations for a CB that we traded a future 1st rounder for? Starting? # of INTs? and when those expectations are NOT met and the message rings as hollow as a rotten oak tree..what then?

broncofan7
08-30-2009, 02:46 PM
they should be laughing at your pics. its funny, you think you are so big. you really, really need a reality check. my GF even laughed at your pics, a person whos 170 who thinks hes a monster in the weight room.

Did the REV post gym pics?

SoCalBronco
08-30-2009, 02:46 PM
60% of revenues going to the players?--if that is indeed true--there is obviously going to be a lockout in 2011. The players will not be willing to decrease their 60% share of the pie and the owners I'd imagine want it around 51% -49% or sum such........try to enjoy Bronco football for the next two seasons...(despite our likelihood of struggling mightily these next 2 yrs...)

60% is too high....I don't think they'll ever get it to 51%. It used to be around 55%, which is the norm for most major sports leagues...I think they'll try to get it back down to that 55 area.

tsiguy96
08-30-2009, 02:47 PM
Did the REV post gym pics?

he posted pics of himself in the mirror, i dont know what thread they are in now. laughable, to say the least.

Blueflame
08-30-2009, 02:51 PM
true, but to sit here and just talk like its a gauranteed 5-10 pick is dumb because it could very well be where weve been drafting the last several years, about #12 or wahtever. everytime someone uses that 5-10 analogy its because they are simultaneously talking about how bad this team will suck future is over gloom is upon us etc etc instead of reasonably looking that this team can win 7-10 games again.

Prognostications that our pick might be in the 5-10 range are educated guesses based on our tough schedule. Sure... one or two of the teams that look very tough on paper might wind up not being as intimidating as they look now...but they won't all be easier than expected this year.

broncofan7
08-30-2009, 03:07 PM
he posted pics of himself in the mirror, i dont know what thread they are in now. laughable, to say the least.

You mean I have competition for the most narcissistic poster on the Mane? I had no idea......

broncofan7
08-30-2009, 03:08 PM
Prognostications that our pick might be in the 5-10 range are educated guesses based on our tough schedule. Sure... one or two of the teams that look very tough on paper might wind up not being as intimidating as they look now...but they won't all be easier than expected this year.

Unless our D is s turnover machine--ala the 2000 season--we will wind up with between 3-5 victories IMHO.......

lex
08-30-2009, 03:21 PM
He's not broke...he's just been a cheapskate in the last five years or so.

This. Whether or not he's broke or not is only part of it. If he's not willing to ante up while having one of the most valuable sports franchises in the US, maybe its time to let someone else have a bite of the apple.

baja
08-30-2009, 03:26 PM
Lex's theories: Another one bites the dust.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNQRfBAzSzo

Quick make 50 threads to counteract lex's false fifty.

TonyR
08-30-2009, 03:29 PM
Sixth most valuable franchise in U.S. sports, which is amazing considering the small market.

http://espn.go.com/sportsbusiness/s/forbes.html

Edit: sorry, that's old info. 11th most valuable NFL team.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/30/sportsmoney_nfl08_Denver-Broncos_308211.html

baja
08-30-2009, 03:33 PM
He's not broke...he's just been a cheapskate in the last five years or so.

Ya the cheapskate is so damn cheap he is paying Shanahan 7 million dollars to play golf and visit other training camps. Ever wonder just how bad Shanahan had screwed things up at Dove Valley for the "cheapskate" Pat Bowlen, dear friend to Mike Shanahan, to justify the firing of him.

cutthemdown
08-30-2009, 03:36 PM
This. Whether or not he's broke or not is only part of it. If he's not willing to ante up while having one of the most valuable sports franchises in the US, maybe its time to let someone else have a bite of the apple.

Broncos have been big spenders over the yrs. I love Bowlen it was his zeal for the Superbowl that got us our two rings.

The Broncos IMO will be splashing into the market at some point. Right now though I see the biz since in pulling back. FA like Henry will do that to ya. Also the economy sort of down. Add that to the fact the teams that just draft well and don't go crazy in FA often seem to do better.

Only a couple defenders for the front 7 in FA would have helped and its hard to outbid teams that will offer as much or more money because team not that good right now.

John Abrahms comes to mind.

In any event they still went out and signed some players so its hard to complain.

I would like to have seen Cutler remain, Marshall resigned, but I just can't let that deter me from loving the Broncos. It's the uniform I pull for not, the players inside the uniform.

baja
08-30-2009, 03:38 PM
How exactly did he set the record straight? All he mentioned was revenue. That's a meaningless number without knowing the expenses.

You can be #1 in revenue, but if you are #1 in expenses and the expenses outweigh the revenue, and your other business aren't doing so well either, then you are broke.

That was my thought too, the other thought I had was, damn the majority of posters question nothing, they get their spoon fed news and proceed to have a group whine about what they guess is fact.

lex
08-30-2009, 03:42 PM
Ya the cheapskate is so damn cheap he is paying Shanahan 7 million dollars to play golf and visit other training camps. Ever wonder just how bad Shanahan had screwed things up at Dove Valley for the "cheapskate" Pat Bowlen, dear friend to Mike Shanahan, to justify the firing of him.

The 7 million means nothing. The additional salary he brought on was the 3 million that he's paying McDaniels. But he is saving the 3 million that he's spending on an unproven coach by not paying proven players.

lex
08-30-2009, 03:44 PM
Broncos have been big spenders over the yrs. I love Bowlen it was his zeal for the Superbowl that got us our two rings.

The Broncos IMO will be splashing into the market at some point. Right now though I see the biz since in pulling back. FA like Henry will do that to ya. Also the economy sort of down. Add that to the fact the teams that just draft well and don't go crazy in FA often seem to do better.

Only a couple defenders for the front 7 in FA would have helped and its hard to outbid teams that will offer as much or more money because team not that good right now.

John Abrahms comes to mind.

In any event they still went out and signed some players so its hard to complain.

I would like to have seen Cutler remain, Marshall resigned, but I just can't let that deter me from loving the Broncos. It's the uniform I pull for not, the players inside the uniform.
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2530466&postcount=7

Its a shame you spent the time making this reply when the above post was already made.

ohiobronco2
08-30-2009, 03:46 PM
i hate when people say its a potential 5 or 10 pick, of course fool its a potential #32 pick as well. It was done because they saw a player they liked and wanted him, not to avoid using all tehir firsts..

DenverBrit
08-30-2009, 03:58 PM
What are the expectations for a CB that we traded a future 1st rounder for? Starting? # of INTs? and when those expectations are NOT met and the message rings as hollow as a rotten oak tree..what then?

I'm not worried, but you go ahead and anguish about something that hasn't happened.

DenverBrit
08-30-2009, 04:10 PM
This. Whether or not he's broke or not is only part of it. If he's not willing to ante up while having one of the most valuable sports franchises in the US, maybe its time to let someone else have a bite of the apple.


I'm curious, Lex. how much money do you contribute to the franchise each year....approx?

TheReverend
08-30-2009, 04:36 PM
they should be laughing at your pics. its funny, you think you are so big. you really, really need a reality check. my GF even laughed at your pics, a person whos 170 who thinks hes a monster in the weight room.

First, you're under by 20 lbs.

Second, I've never claimed to be a "monster". Dr Freud would have some interesting projections based on that statement though. Ha!

Thirdly, quit being such a puss and post pics of yourself and your whale of a girlfriend so I can have something to cheer me up laughing at after the game.

Cito Pelon
08-30-2009, 04:40 PM
60% of revenues going to the players?--if that is indeed true--there is obviously going to be a lockout in 2011. The players will not be willing to decrease their 60% share of the pie and the owners I'd imagine want it around 51% -49% or sum such........try to enjoy Bronco football for the next two seasons...(despite our likelihood of struggling mightily these next 2 yrs...)

You don't even know the basics about the NFL.

Cito Pelon
08-30-2009, 04:43 PM
true, but to sit here and just talk like its a gauranteed 5-10 pick is dumb because it could very well be where weve been drafting the last several years, about #12 or wahtever. everytime someone uses that 5-10 analogy its because they are simultaneously talking about how bad this team will suck future is over gloom is upon us etc etc instead of reasonably looking that this team can win 7-10 games again.

This is true.