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TonyR
08-27-2009, 05:12 PM
No go for Knowshon in Week One?
Posted by Mike Florio on August 27, 2009 6:53 PM ET

When the Broncos face the Bengals to start the season, they might be without the services of the twelfth overall pick in the 2009 draft.

According to Jeff Legwold of the Denver Post, tailback Knowshon Moreno is not expected to be back to 100 percent by the time Week One rolls around.

Even if Moreno's sprained MCL has healed by September 13, Moreno's conditioning likely will keep him on the shelf.

With LaMont Jordan also missing time due to injury, the current starter is veteran Correll Buckhalter, who arrived via free agency after eight years in Philly.

Peyton Hillis also could shift over from fullback, and Darius Walker could get reps, too.

Oh well. At least they still have Jay Cutler Kyle Orton at quarterback.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/27/no-go-for-knowshon-in-week-one/

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2009/08/27/broncos-need-some-good-health-at-rb/

PRBronco
08-27-2009, 05:14 PM
I checked out the Legwold article, there's not much to it: "not up to speed in rehab or conditioning by week 1" something like that. Wildly uninformative.

lex
08-27-2009, 05:15 PM
Yeah, it might have helped to take him out of the game when he was limping and not 4 plays later.

tsiguy96
08-27-2009, 05:15 PM
gooooo hillis

elsid13
08-27-2009, 05:23 PM
Yeah, it might have helped to take him out of the game when he was limping and not 4 plays later.

Let be fair, at no time did he go down or take himself out. For all the coaches knew he just banged his knee and had stringer.


It is contact sports and the things happen, which is one of the reason it stupid to spend 1st round money on running back because of the higher risk of injury and short life span in the league. You can find production and talent as good or better down the draft.

lex
08-27-2009, 05:29 PM
Let be fair, at no time did he go down or take himself out. For all the coaches knew he just banged his knee and had stringer.


It is contact sports and the things happen, which is one of the reason it stupid to spend 1st round money on running back because of the higher risk of injury and short life span in the league. You can find production and talent as good or better down the draft.


No, he wasnt taken out until well after his initial injury. This ties back to coaches relying on a rookie to do what they expect of veterans. When you see a rookie limping, especially a first round pick, its not the same as seeing a vet. Vets should know their body better and are also not apt to stay in because their caught up in the fact that its their first game.

Punisher
08-27-2009, 05:30 PM
dammit to cock that sucks

Mr.Meanie
08-27-2009, 05:31 PM
Let be fair, at no time did he go down or take himself out. For all the coaches knew he just banged his knee and had stringer.


It is contact sports and the things happen, which is one of the reason it stupid to spend 1st round money on running back because of the higher risk of injury and short life span in the league. You can find production and talent as good or better down the draft.

It's worth it if you end up with a proven stud like AP or LT, despite the occasional injuries.

elsid13
08-27-2009, 05:34 PM
No, he wasnt taken out until well after his initial injury. This ties back to coaches relying on a rookie to do what they expect of veterans. When you see a rookie limping, especially a first round pick, its not the same as seeing a vet. Vets should know their body better and are also not apt to stay in because their caught up in the fact that its their first game.

Lex

We can ding McDaniels for a lot of stupid moves, but I will not say it his fault that KM was hurt. Things happens and playing one more play didn't cause the injury to be worse or force him out longer.

JJJ
08-27-2009, 05:34 PM
Boy are you guys cursed at that running back spot or what? Brutal string of injuries over two seasons. I would look both ways before crossing the street if I was this Buckhalter chap.

elsid13
08-27-2009, 05:36 PM
It's worth it if you end up with a proven stud like AP or LT, despite the occasional injuries.

Or you get Ki-Jan Carter or Benson, then it real set your team back. Like I stated you can find runners later in the draft that can be studs in our system.

Taco John
08-27-2009, 05:36 PM
Seriously? Buckhalter over Hillis?

lex
08-27-2009, 05:37 PM
Lex

We can ding McDaniels for a lot of stupid moves, but I will not say it his fault that KM was hurt. Things happens and playing one more play didn't cause the injury to be worse or force him out longer.

You dont know that this is true.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-27-2009, 05:37 PM
No, he wasnt taken out until well after his initial injury. This ties back to coaches relying on a rookie to do what they expect of veterans. When you see a rookie limping, especially a first round pick, its not the same as seeing a vet. Vets should know their body better and are also not apt to stay in because their caught up in the fact that its their first game.

While i shocking agree with you here, theres no proof he made the injury worse after that. In fact, if he's limping, he probably injured it then and that was that

Taco John
08-27-2009, 05:38 PM
Lex

We can ding McDaniels for a lot of stupid moves, but I will not say it his fault that KM was hurt. Things happens and playing one more play didn't cause the injury to be worse or force him out longer.


I believe Shanahan would have drafted Moreno in the first round.

elsid13
08-27-2009, 05:39 PM
You dont know that this is true.

You also don't know it not. Injuries happen that is part of the game.

lex
08-27-2009, 05:40 PM
Or you get Ki-Jan Carter or Benson, then it real set your team back. Like I stated you can find runners later in the draft that can be studs in our system.

Yeah, especially when youre a pass happy team. Its amazing. Shanahan has one of the all time best offenses to feature a running back but minimizes a strength by relying on scrubs. And then comes McDaniels and his pass happy offense and he decides to take a RB in the first. Its like McDaniels and Shanahan are the inverse of each other. McDaniels also tries to make guys like Orton work in his offense, whereas, Shanahan liked blue chip talent at QB.

elsid13
08-27-2009, 05:40 PM
I believe Shanahan would have drafted Moreno in the first round.

I doubt it. I would see him going with Brown (UCONN) or Coffee (ALA). Both fit his mode of runner and have shown they have talent.

lex
08-27-2009, 05:41 PM
You also don't know it not. Injuries happen that is part of the game.

I know he was playing injured and thats never a good idea. I also know that the circumstances should have dictated being cautious.

521 1N5
08-27-2009, 05:42 PM
Yeah, it might have helped to take him out of the game when he was limping and not 4 plays later.

Armchair coaching is soooo awesome!!!

SonOfLe-loLang
08-27-2009, 05:43 PM
Yeah, especially when youre a pass happy team. Its amazing. Shanahan has one of the all time best offenses to feature a running back but minimizes a strength by relying on scrubs. And then comes McDaniels and his pass happy offense and he decides to take a RB in the first. Its like McDaniels and Shanahan are the inverse of each other. McDaniels also tries to make guys like Orton work in his offense, whereas, Shanahan liked blue chip talent at QB.

OK, now youre back to being a moron. Yes, NE was a pass first team, but not only spent a top pick on a back, needed a good running game to balance their attack ESPECIALLY come playoff time.

Not to mention, McD knows a bit more about what makes his offense click than you do.

meangene
08-27-2009, 06:05 PM
First, the article is pure speculation. He was to be out 1-2 weeks which would mean he could be back at practice next week. He could play in week 1 with a week or two of practice under his belt. It is wait and see with him. Probably would want to limit his carries if he played though.

Second, I have no problem with a combo of Hillis and Buckhalter for a week.

Gcver2ver3
08-27-2009, 06:07 PM
the good news just keeps rolling in...

TonyR
08-27-2009, 06:13 PM
OK, now youre back to being a moron.

Back to being a moron? As if he stopped at some point? With him it's just a matter of degree.

SoDak Bronco
08-27-2009, 06:13 PM
I know he was playing injured and thats never a good idea. I also know that the circumstances should have dictated being cautious.

like Plummer and Griese? bhwahaha, nice try moron

watermock
08-27-2009, 07:41 PM
Peyton Hillis also could shift over from fullback, and Darius Walker could get reps, too.

Great idea, he'll have to tell Beavis.

Popps
08-27-2009, 07:54 PM
Hillis will be splitting carries. Not worried one bit.

broncosteven
08-27-2009, 08:25 PM
dammit to cock that sucks

I like it but how about this one:

dammit to anus that stinks!

?

Baba Booey
08-27-2009, 08:32 PM
****

Punisher
08-27-2009, 08:32 PM
I like it but how about this one:

dammit to anus that stinks!

?

That ones cool try this

Holy Crap on my face that stinks

broncosteven
08-27-2009, 08:38 PM
That ones cool try this

Holy Crap on my face that stinks

I was trying to stay in the Haiku format

Curse must have:

Must start with:
Dammit

Then the word:
to

Must contain a genital or body part that could be used in a sex act:
nipples

THe word:
that('s)

Must reference something the gentials do:
milky

Result:
dammit to nipples that's milky

Punisher
08-27-2009, 08:40 PM
i was trying to stay in the haiku format

curse must have:

Must start with:
Dammit

then the word:
To

must contain a genital or body part that could be used in a sex act:
Nipples

the word:
That('s)

must reference something the gentials do:
Milky

result:
dammit to nipples that's milky

lmao!!!

Punisher
08-27-2009, 08:43 PM
dammit to dick that's a sticky situation

BroncoMan4ever
08-27-2009, 09:46 PM
i don't mind if he is out the opener or even 1st 2 weeks of the season. i would rather hold him out until he is 100% and then unleash him on the NFL.

meangene
08-28-2009, 08:42 AM
According to the Post this morning, it is possible, though unlikely, he could play in the last preseason game but is expected to be ready for Week 1.

Beantown Bronco
08-28-2009, 08:50 AM
You can find production and talent as good or better down the draft.

There's not a position on the field where this isn't technically true. But you of course are relying on some serious luck. Scouting can only take you so far.

elsid13
08-28-2009, 01:34 PM
There's not a position on the field where this isn't technically true. But you of course are relying on some serious luck. Scouting can only take you so far.

It not as much luck as you think if you have system in place and identify traits that a player has that work within that system. What has killed the broncos on defense was the continues change of systems and player need to run it. Meanwhile the offense has been very stable and able to find and replace players as needed.

Beantown Bronco
08-28-2009, 01:41 PM
It not as much luck as you think if you have system in place and identify traits that a player has that work within that system. What has killed the broncos on defense was the continues change of systems and player need to run it. Meanwhile the offense has been very stable and able to find and replace players as needed.

The Broncos have drafted A LOT of duds at running back the last 10 years.

Tombstone RJ
08-28-2009, 01:46 PM
No go for Knowshon in Week One?
Posted by Mike Florio on August 27, 2009 6:53 PM ET

When the Broncos face the Bengals to start the season, they might be without the services of the twelfth overall pick in the 2009 draft.

According to Jeff Legwold of the Denver Post, tailback Knowshon Moreno is not expected to be back to 100 percent by the time Week One rolls around.

Even if Moreno's sprained MCL has healed by September 13, Moreno's conditioning likely will keep him on the shelf.

With LaMont Jordan also missing time due to injury, the current starter is veteran Correll Buckhalter, who arrived via free agency after eight years in Philly.

Peyton Hillis also could shift over from fullback, and Darius Walker could get reps, too.

Oh well. At least they still have Jay Cutler Kyle Orton at quarterback.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/27/no-go-for-knowshon-in-week-one/

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2009/08/27/broncos-need-some-good-health-at-rb/


I'm on McD's bandwagon but I'm gonna call it like I see it:

This is McD's fault. He should NOT have played Moreno in the 1st preseason game. He should have let Moreno practice and then play him (only if ready) in the 3rd preseason game and even then, if he's ready.

Then McD keeps him in the game as the guy is obviously limping around. At the very least he should have pulled him and had him checked out before putting him back into the game.

Not really sure what McD's logic was behind this but I don't understand it.

Beantown Bronco
08-28-2009, 01:49 PM
This is McD's fault. He should NOT have played Moreno in the 1st preseason game. He should have let Moreno practice and then play him (only if ready) in the 3rd preseason game and even then, if he's ready.

Can any case at all be made for a correlation between sprained MCL's and NFL game conditioning? Hamstrings, sure? But MCL sprains?

Borks147
08-28-2009, 01:54 PM
Then McD keeps him in the game as the guy is obviously limping around. At the very least he should have pulled him and had him checked out before putting him back into the game.

Not really sure what McD's logic was behind this but I don't understand it.

It had been stated several times that no one on the coaching staff, either on the sideline nor on in the booth, noticed that he came up limping. Don't lay the blame on McD or his logic.

Tombstone RJ
08-28-2009, 01:55 PM
Can any case at all be made for a correlation between sprained MCL's and NFL game conditioning? Hamstrings, sure? But MCL sprains?

Well, I doubt it. But that being said, if he's not ready via lack of conditioning and lack of experienc then he might be more apt to injury simply because he MIGHT be more hesitant. The NFL is such a speed game that a player will get hurt if he's not mentally and physically prepared. Moreno might (I stress might here) have avoided the injury simply because he might not have been tackled at that particular moment on that particular play because he's well, better.

Complete guess on my part.

Tombstone RJ
08-28-2009, 01:57 PM
It had been stated several times that no one on the coaching staff, either on the sideline nor on in the booth, noticed that he came up limping. Don't lay the blame on McD or his logic.

Everyone but the coaches noticed his limp? 2nd play of the game for Moreno, ALL EYES ARE ON THIS KID, and the coaches don't see a limp?

I saw it. Of course I was watching him...

Borks147
08-28-2009, 02:05 PM
Everyone but the coaches noticed his limp? 2nd play of the game for Moreno, ALL EYES ARE ON THIS KID, and the coaches don't see a limp?

I saw it. Of course I was watching him...

I'm not arguing that! I saw the kid come up limping too and wondered the same thing about McD. You can be pissed off that the coaches didn't notice it, be pissed off they played him after little conditioning, but I don't think you can be pissed off that they didn't take him out of the game if they didn't know he was injured.

broncofan7
08-28-2009, 02:21 PM
I believe Shanahan would have drafted Moreno in the first round.

I believe Spagnuolo would have drafted Moreno too---and signed Dawkins (familiarity with him from his time as a coach in Philly........)

cutthemdown
08-28-2009, 02:35 PM
Moreno just got dinged. Welcome to the NFL kid. Mcdaniels may have played him too early but hindsight 50/50. You never know maybe Moreno would have tore and ACL the 2nd game instead of a strain first game. You just never know how things turn out.

As someone who has had to be a leader, make decisions, sometimes there is no way to know what decision is best. In the end you have to make one. Mcdaniels choose to see what the kid could do. Moreno still has plenty of time to make an impact so I'm not going to panic.

Broncos rebuilding, we can wait until week 3-4 to see Moreno full speed. It's a bummer but maybe he slips in my fantasy keeper draft coming up.

I still think he is worth grabbing if not for this yr, next yr.

lex
08-28-2009, 02:46 PM
I'm not arguing that! I saw the kid come up limping too and wondered the same thing about McD. You can be pissed off that the coaches didn't notice it, be pissed off they played him after little conditioning, but I don't think you can be pissed off that they didn't take him out of the game if they didn't know he was injured.


You most certainly can be pissed about them not taking him out. Its preseason. There was nothing to gain by keeping him in other than risking further injury. And when you see a 1st round running back the reward of keeping him in didnt justify the risk. And thats not second guessing. As has been mentioned, many were wondering what was wrong with him and why he was still out there.

Beantown Bronco
08-28-2009, 02:49 PM
You most certainly can be pissed about them not taking him out. Its preseason. There was nothing to gain by keeping him in other than risking further injury. And when you see a 1st round running back the reward of keeping him in didnt justify the risk. And thats not second guessing. As has been mentioned, many were wondering what was wrong with him and why he was still out there.

You need to read the last part of his last sentence again.

lex
08-28-2009, 02:57 PM
You need to read the last part of his last sentence again.


Thats the most flagrantly stupid part. The guy was limping.

Beantown Bronco
08-28-2009, 03:02 PM
Thats the most flagrantly stupid part. The guy was limping.

Obvious to us because the camera was zoomed in on him the whole time. Not so obvious to a coach who also calls the plays, who was looking at the QB and his other coaches on the sidelines at the time....not the RB, who was literally surrounded by guys a lot bigger than him. You've got to remember: viewing the game from the sidelines at field level is a whole lot different than what we had on tv.

lex
08-28-2009, 03:08 PM
Obvious to us because the camera was zoomed in on him the whole time. Not so obvious to a coach who also calls the plays, who was looking at the QB and his other coaches on the sidelines at the time....not the RB, who was literally surrounded by guys a lot bigger than him. You've got to remember: viewing the game from the sidelines at field level is a whole lot different than what we had on tv.


No, its hard to believe someone didnt see him limping.

broncosteven
08-28-2009, 03:27 PM
Obvious to us because the camera was zoomed in on him the whole time. Not so obvious to a coach who also calls the plays, who was looking at the QB and his other coaches on the sidelines at the time....not the RB, who was literally surrounded by guys a lot bigger than him. You've got to remember: viewing the game from the sidelines at field level is a whole lot different than what we had on tv.

Or a 1st time HC who has a new QB who was having trouble getting the plays in and called before the clock ran out.

Nothing wrong if a player wants to play through some pain. He will learn to protect his legs better and seek out a trainer next time.

At least he isn't like Otah, the tackle from the panthers, that dude has been out of every PS game for some small ding, cut, vag bruise every game I have seen him in this year.