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View Full Version : So what do you all think about Hillis returning kicks?


BroncoDoug
08-27-2009, 02:15 AM
He did it at Arkansas, but I don't know if i want to risk him getting hurt, he is going to be a big part of the offense(I hope)

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_13211947?source=rss

True to his word, Broncos coach Josh McDaniels has looked at some additional kickoff returners this week.

Running back Peyton Hillis has spent plenty of time fielding kickoffs in practice. Hillis returned punts and kickoffs as a college player at Arkansas.

Rookie wide receiver Kenny McKinley bobbled a kickoff and fumbled another Saturday at Seattle. Rookie cornerback Alphonso Smith also bobbled a kickoff in the game.

ZONA
08-27-2009, 02:25 AM
It's not like Smith didn't do this at college. Just rookie nerves, they will settle down. You don't just put somebody else back there this soon. I think what Josh is probably doing is just having somebody else practice with them to let them know he is still looking for somebody to WIN that job. We might see Hillis return a few in the game but I don't think that's going to be anything long term. Although the man does break alot of tackles and has a mean stiff arm, he'd probably do very well.

TheChamp24
08-27-2009, 02:45 AM
I still think Royal should be returning kicks, and Smith punts.

meangene
08-27-2009, 04:04 AM
I still think Royal should be returning kicks, and Smith punts.

I recall reading that Royal would be returning punts, if anything.

Ratboy
08-27-2009, 04:27 AM
Personally, I want our fastest guy out there returning kicks.

but does it honestly matter who is returning kicks? If it's like anything like the past decade, the blocking will be horrible and the returner will get smothered.

meangene
08-27-2009, 05:08 AM
Personally, I want our fastest guy out there returning kicks.

but does it honestly matter who is returning kicks? If it's like anything like the past decade, the blocking will be horrible and the returner will get smothered.

With the real emphasis on special teams I think we will see improvement in the return area. The coverage teams already look good. I thought McKinley and Smith both looked good in the first game. So, yeah, I do think it is going to matter. I don't see risking Hillis doing it, though. I can see using Royal on occasion when we really need a return - like we did with Rod some.

rastaman
08-27-2009, 05:08 AM
He did it at Arkansas, but I don't know if i want to risk him getting hurt, he is going to be a big part of the offense(I hope)

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_13211947?source=rss

It will probably result in a career ending knee injury. :thumbs:

WolfpackGuy
08-27-2009, 05:21 AM
Second worst idea ever.
First worst was the Jayby Cutler trade.

Pony Boy
08-27-2009, 08:59 AM
We might need a platoon of returners, I got a feeling we might be returning a lot of kickoffs this season ...........!Booya!

Peoples Champ
08-27-2009, 09:00 AM
dont like it

iDENVER
08-27-2009, 09:01 AM
he is to important on our offense

2KBack
08-27-2009, 09:09 AM
I think it's a good idea, and Hillis could be a good weapon in the return game. I wouldn't expect him to break crazy TD runs, but he would be very effective at giving the offense consistantly solid or good field position. It;'s similar to when Denver had Droughns returning kick offs, he didn't score on them, but it was the last time we had a solid consistant return game.

I'll say it again, you don't save a player that can help you in a phase of the game. You want the best performer in every position, no exceptions.

SoDak Bronco
08-27-2009, 09:10 AM
I think we should have JMFW back there returing kicks

Popps
08-27-2009, 09:15 AM
This goes to my theory that, like Shanahan... McDaniels will try to be too cute with Hillis for a while. But, hopefully he'll end up realizing what Shanahan did, and just hand him the ****ing ball.

PRBronco
08-27-2009, 09:16 AM
I'll say it again, you don't save a player that can help you in a phase of the game. You want the best performer in every position, no exceptions.

This. Don't forget it.

~Crash~
08-27-2009, 09:16 AM
I think it's a good idea, and Hillis could be a good weapon in the return game. I wouldn't expect him to break crazy TD runs, but he would be very effective at giving the offense consistently solid or good field position. It;'s similar to when Denver had Droughns returning kick offs, he didn't score on them, but it was the last time we had a solid consistant return game.

I'll say it again, you don't save a player that can help you in a phase of the game. You want the best performer in every position, no exceptions.

how true :thumbsup: I want hills to touch the ball as much as possible

Beantown Bronco
08-27-2009, 09:16 AM
Injuries to kick returners couldn't be more exaggerated. What is it, like one guy every 5-10 years gets a significant injury returning kicks? And for whatever reason people freak out like it happens every game.

Wedge guys go down FAR more often than the actual returners.

~Crash~
08-27-2009, 09:18 AM
to the people that talk injuries find a life . and to the ones that talk Cutler my god the river watter has hit the ocean

Beej
08-27-2009, 09:20 AM
Only if somebody kicks him first.

baja
08-27-2009, 09:25 AM
I don't care who ends up back there as long as we get a lot better in that phase of the game.

dbfan4life
08-27-2009, 09:27 AM
While we're at in, lets have BMarsh on punt coverage as the 'gunner'. I'm sure he's done it at some point in his playing career. !Booya!

~Crash~
08-27-2009, 09:32 AM
While we're at in, lets have BMarsh on punt coverage as the 'gunner'. I'm sure he's done it at some point in his playing career. !Booya!

I bet he would not mind .

loborugger
08-27-2009, 09:48 AM
Hillis is supposed to run over folks, its what he does. That is great in the ground game. Pretty much all the good return guys are fast and elusive - see Dainty Hall. Hillis is not this. He is not explosive, so I dont see him ever busting off one to the house.

TheDave
08-27-2009, 09:51 AM
Might as well... The guys who have been doing it up to now haven't impressed.

Borks147
08-27-2009, 09:54 AM
Our last kickoff returner that was any good was reuben droughns, a FB/RB. Hmmmmmm.....

Doggcow
08-27-2009, 09:57 AM
I hear we're bringing in Chad Mustard to return kicks.

What you all think?

Meck77
08-27-2009, 10:06 AM
Anubis for kicker and returner.

cousinal11
08-27-2009, 10:12 AM
I like Royal returning punts when we're going to be fielding the punt deep in our own territory.

He seems less likely to fumble than anyone else we put back there. He's probably the guy we want making the decision on whether to call a fair catch, let the ball go into the endzone, etc.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-27-2009, 10:32 AM
I like Royal returning punts when we're going to be fielding the punt deep in our own territory.

He seems less likely to fumble than anyone else we put back there. He's probably the guy we want making the decision on whether to call a fair catch, let the ball go into the endzone, etc.

I'm down with this, i'm down with Nate Swift doing it provided he makes the team...seems surehanded back there

Taco John
08-27-2009, 10:37 AM
It just seems so counter-intuitive to put Hillis in as a punt returner.

Paladin
08-27-2009, 11:06 AM
I'd like Marshall at kick returner. I think he would be a great tackling dummy......

Bronco LB52
08-27-2009, 11:09 AM
I second what 2KBack and aborquez147 said; Droughns was a classic example of an unconventional return man who did well in the role.

Keeping turnovers to a minimum should be the top priority. In a close game, it's hard to overcome a turnover deep in one's territory.

Taco John
08-27-2009, 11:14 AM
I personally think Hillis is a lot more crucial to the success of our offense than Droughns ever was. We've all seen it. Hillis is magic out there. He does things in all offensive phases that equate into big chunks of yardage. I think that it's very risky to put the guy like that who who can do so much for your offense in as a punt returner.

Atlas
08-27-2009, 11:18 AM
It wouldn't be unprecedented. Rueban Droughns was a FB that returned kicks. He was very good at it. Although I don't think Hillis has the burst of speed to get through the holes.

Atlas
08-27-2009, 11:20 AM
I personally think Hillis is a lot more crucial to the success of our offense than Droughns ever was. We've all seen it. Hillis is magic out there. He does things in all offensive phases that equate into big chunks of yardage. I think that it's very risky to put the guy like that who who can do so much for your offense in as a punt returner.
This offense won't use a FB very often. Moreno is the starter so why do you think Hillis is so valuable other than as a backup? Not in this system.

BroncoBuff
08-27-2009, 11:30 AM
No.

Chad Jackson, Kenny McKinley ... maybe even Knowshon.

broncosteven
08-27-2009, 11:44 AM
It wouldn't be unprecedented. Rueban Droughns was a FB that returned kicks. He was very good at it. Although I don't think Hillis has the burst of speed to get through the holes.

Yep but he never took one to the house whereas the faster Adrian Madise took one the distance during his short time here.

Reuben did a consistent job but couldn't take it all the way.

2KBack
08-27-2009, 11:44 AM
I personally think Hillis is a lot more crucial to the success of our offense than Droughns ever was. We've all seen it. Hillis is magic out there. He does things in all offensive phases that equate into big chunks of yardage. I think that it's very risky to put the guy like that who who can do so much for your offense in as a punt returner.

I wouldn't put him as a punt returner. Lateral quickness is a greater asset in the punt game. As a kickoff guy, hell yeah. Hillis is a great at finding creases and hitting them at full steam. I can only imagine how he'd be with a 10-15 yard running start.

Irish Stout
08-27-2009, 11:51 AM
I think its an interesting concept, but I don't understand putting Hillis in as opposed to one of our more quick and nimble guys. Hillis is fast and strong, but he's more of smash into dudes kind of runner.

PRBronco
08-27-2009, 11:52 AM
I wouldn't put him as a punt returner. Lateral quickness is a greater asset in the punt game. As a kickoff guy, hell yeah. Hillis is a great at finding creases and hitting them at full steam. I can only imagine how he'd be with a 10-15 yard running start.

Every special teamer in the league just shuddered :strong:

Irish Stout
08-27-2009, 11:54 AM
This offense won't use a FB very often. Moreno is the starter so why do you think Hillis is so valuable other than as a backup? Not in this system.

But we will be using a lot of two back sets and splitting Hillis out wide on occassion as well as splitting out Moreno.

watermock
08-27-2009, 11:58 AM
yes, he'll bring it out the 35 consistently.

Smith should return punts. He has to be good for something.

He'a supposed to the ball hawk, let him show it.

Royal is way too valuable now.

Atlas
08-27-2009, 11:59 AM
Yep but he never took one to the house whereas the faster Adrian Madise took one the distance during his short time here.

Reuben did a consistent job but couldn't take it all the way.

THat's true but he CONSITENTLY got Denver to midfield. Something that hasn't been done since he left.

I was really on the Madise bandwagon there for a summer. Damn...

Bronco LB52
08-27-2009, 12:03 PM
I personally think Hillis is a lot more crucial to the success of our offense than Droughns ever was. We've all seen it. Hillis is magic out there. He does things in all offensive phases that equate into big chunks of yardage. I think that it's very risky to put the guy like that who who can do so much for your offense in as a punt returner.

Don't you mean kick returner?

No doubt Hillis is critical to Denver's success. The Broncos would have beat the Bills in late December with a healthy Hillis.

Given McDaniels' 3-4 headed monster at RB though, Hillis is already looking at a reduced workload with no more than 8-15 touches per game. I say get the ball in his hands anyway you can if he's not going to be used like a #1.

watermock
08-27-2009, 12:03 PM
I was on the Drougns bandwagon before he started seeing the field.

He's alot like Hillis IMO.

USMCBladerunner
08-27-2009, 12:18 PM
lol...this is great, the farther into this pre-season we get the more apparent it is that Hillis = Tussin.

And to think you lads thought we'd be trading him away.

cutthemdown
08-27-2009, 12:56 PM
It's not like Smith didn't do this at college. Just rookie nerves, they will settle down. You don't just put somebody else back there this soon. I think what Josh is probably doing is just having somebody else practice with them to let them know he is still looking for somebody to WIN that job. We might see Hillis return a few in the game but I don't think that's going to be anything long term. Although the man does break alot of tackles and has a mean stiff arm, he'd probably do very well.

he could maybe do kickoffs but not punts. IMO you need more quickness then hillis has to return punts.

Kickoffs though you could just tell him to run straight down the middle of the field full speed. He could probably break enough tackles, pick up some blocks, and get the ball past the 20.

cutthemdown
08-27-2009, 12:57 PM
I was on the Drougns bandwagon before he started seeing the field.

He's alot like Hillis IMO.

Yeah they are a little similar. I think Hillis faster though.

cutthemdown
08-27-2009, 12:58 PM
THat's true but he CONSITENTLY got Denver to midfield. Something that hasn't been done since he left.

I was really on the Madise bandwagon there for a summer. Damn...

cmon no kick returner ever gets consistently to midfield. Maybe if they only had a couple returns, but over 20-30 returns no way.

cmhargrove
08-27-2009, 01:05 PM
Best strategy for football success - put the ball in the hands of your playmakers 80% of the time.

If Hillis beats out the other guys in practice, put the ball in his hands. Play to win, not to "avoid injury." The best guy should tote the rock.

footstepsfrom#27
08-27-2009, 01:19 PM
No.

STBumpkin
08-27-2009, 01:25 PM
Hillis is supposed to run over folks, its what he does. That is great in the ground game. Pretty much all the good return guys are fast and elusive - see Dainty Hall. Hillis is not this. He is not explosive, so I dont see him ever busting off one to the house.

I'd rather see a returner break a few tackles every return for an average 5-10 yards more than see 1 or 2 TDs ran back a year. Special teams is about field position, not scoring every time (even the best only get a few TDs a year).

Peoples Champ
08-27-2009, 02:09 PM
I'd rather see a returner break a few tackles every return for an average 5-10 yards more than see 1 or 2 TDs ran back a year. Special teams is about field position, not scoring every time (even the best only get a few TDs a year).



Ya, but i would rather have a no name speedy guy go down to injury on a PR or KR. Not one of our great running backs who is critical on short yardage plays.

I hope we can find someone else then smith returning. We have a lot vested on him to be a good CB.

2KBack
08-27-2009, 02:12 PM
Ya, but i would rather have a no name speedy guy go down to injury on a PR or KR. Not one of our great running backs who is critical on short yardage plays.

I hope we can find someone else then smith returning. We have a lot vested on him to be a good CB.

No names are no names for a reason, they probably aren't all that great. Meaning that phase of the game suffers, which has a negative effect and the rest of the team suffers.

Tombstone RJ
08-27-2009, 02:17 PM
I don't like the idea. Hell, why not see if Larsen can return kicks too while your at it...

Beantown Bronco
08-27-2009, 02:34 PM
Ya, but i would rather have a no name speedy guy go down to injury on a PR or KR. Not one of our great running backs who is critical on short yardage plays.

I hope we can find someone else then smith returning. We have a lot vested on him to be a good CB.

I challenge the board to name 5 kick returners for the Broncos who have EVER gone down with an injury while returning kicks. And by injury, I'm talking at least one or two missed games here.

Ambiguous
08-27-2009, 02:38 PM
I challenge the board to name 5 kick returners for the Broncos who have EVER gone down with an injury while returning kicks. And by injury, I'm talking at least one or two missed games here.

You have a point.

But you can't blame people for being scared of injuring running backs this year, assuming they went through last season.

Beantown Bronco
08-27-2009, 02:46 PM
You have a point.

But you can't blame people for being scared of injuring running backs this year, assuming they went through last season.

Last year is what happens when you draft and pick up FAs that have a long history of going down with injuries and expect something other than that to happen again. Sure, they tend to be bargains, but some people are just injury prone and can't be relied on.

Peoples Champ
08-27-2009, 02:56 PM
No names are no names for a reason, they probably aren't all that great. Meaning that phase of the game suffers, which has a negative effect and the rest of the team suffers.



Ya your right, I guess I just dont want it to be Hillis. You saw how the Broncos went downhill after he got hurt. There is a reason why many teams dont use RB's as returners. I guess Ruben Droughns did ok, but I still didnt like seeing him back there.

TheChamp24
08-27-2009, 02:56 PM
Fans have this unconventional fear of returners getting hurt. RARELY do returners get hurt.
I'd rather have the best option back there for the team than have some guy who is just okay at it.
I go back to what Bob Stoops does, he used Adrian Peterson as a kick returner, and Demarco Murray last year. The best RB in the NFL right now used to return kicks in college, and Murray is an exceptional back and returned kicks. Was Stoops scared of them getting hurt? Nope, because he knew that was for the teams best interest having the best threats back there. The irony is Murray got hurt on a kick return against Missouri, but still, those rarely happen.

Peoples Champ
08-27-2009, 02:57 PM
I challenge the board to name 5 kick returners for the Broncos who have EVER gone down with an injury while returning kicks. And by injury, I'm talking at least one or two missed games here.


I challege you to find me 5 teams that use a RB as a kick returner. and it has to be a 1st or 2nd stringer, no 5th string RB.

Beantown Bronco
08-27-2009, 03:02 PM
I challege you to find me 5 teams that use a RB as a kick returner. and it has to be a 1st or 2nd stringer, no 5th string RB.

Just last year alone:

Felix Jones
Darren Sproles
JJ Arrington
Leon Washington
Reuben Droughns
Jonathan Stewart
Jerious Norwood

Ownage.

TheChamp24
08-27-2009, 03:03 PM
I challege you to find me 5 teams that use a RB as a kick returner. and it has to be a 1st or 2nd stringer, no 5th string RB.

Darren Sproles
Jerious Norwood
Leon Washington
Felix Jones
Pierre Thomas

Going off of last year, as I don't really know if those guys are still returning kicks.

Peoples Champ
08-27-2009, 03:05 PM
Darren Sproles
Jerious Norwood
Leon Washington
Felix Jones
Pierre Thomas

Going off of last year, as I don't really know if those guys are still returning kicks.


I think Felix Jones got hurt on a KR last year, a huge loss to Dallas run game.

Beantown Bronco
08-27-2009, 03:06 PM
And Maurice Jones Drew was doing it for Jacksonville as recently as 2007, when he was getting half their carries.

maher_tyler
08-27-2009, 03:06 PM
No, stupid idea! That much more of a chance he'll get hurt. Let Mckinely or Smith do the kick returning duties.

Peoples Champ
08-27-2009, 03:10 PM
No, stupid idea! That much more of a chance he'll get hurt. Let Mckinely or Smith do the kick returning duties.

Ya, no reason for a running back to take these hits.,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp5-yj8yWPY&feature=PlayList&p=90CA69978325CFF8&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwhvNX1GfeI


When he already takes these hits

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGvq-ptJEVo

Beantown Bronco
08-27-2009, 03:11 PM
I think Felix Jones got hurt on a KR last year.

False


Now, though, Jones has gone the way of Mendenhall: he's done for the year.
...Jones will be placed on the injured reserve and will have surgery to repair a torn ligament underneath his left big toe. ... Jones suffered a partially torn hamstring on a 14-yard run in the loss to the Cardinals and hasn't played since. He suffered the toe injury while rehabbing his hamstring during the bye week.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/11/20/felix-jones-joins-rashard-mendenhall-on-injured-reserve/

I've more than met my challenge in just one season's worth of stats. I'm still waiting on just 5 measly names and you can go back as far as you want.

Peoples Champ
08-27-2009, 03:13 PM
I challege you to find me 5 teams that use a RB as a kick returner. and it has to be a 1st or 2nd stringer, no 5th string RB.


Whoops, sorry, I mean FB, not RB.

You wont find 5 FB's that return punts.

Sproles, washington, arrington those guys are 5 ' 8" 200 lbs.

Hillis is a fullback listed at 250 lbs

Peoples Champ
08-27-2009, 03:14 PM
False


Now, though, Jones has gone the way of Mendenhall: he's done for the year.
...Jones will be placed on the injured reserve and will have surgery to repair a torn ligament underneath his left big toe. ... Jones suffered a partially torn hamstring on a 14-yard run in the loss to the Cardinals and hasn't played since. He suffered the toe injury while rehabbing his hamstring during the bye week.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/11/20/felix-jones-joins-rashard-mendenhall-on-injured-reserve/

I've more than met my challenge in just one season's worth of stats. I'm still waiting on just 5 measly names and you can go back as far as you want.




My bad, I meant find me 5 full backs, peyton hillis is our full back, find me 5 fullbacks that return kicks , then you win.

Peoples Champ
08-27-2009, 03:17 PM
False


Now, though, Jones has gone the way of Mendenhall: he's done for the year.
...Jones will be placed on the injured reserve and will have surgery to repair a torn ligament underneath his left big toe. ... Jones suffered a partially torn hamstring on a 14-yard run in the loss to the Cardinals and hasn't played since. He suffered the toe injury while rehabbing his hamstring during the bye week.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/11/20/felix-jones-joins-rashard-mendenhall-on-injured-reserve/

I've more than met my challenge in just one season's worth of stats. I'm still waiting on just 5 measly names and you can go back as far as you want.



Felix Jones is 215 lbs. I guess if you honestly say you want a 250 lb man returning kicks over a 215 lb man, then I guess there is no convincing you.

Beantown Bronco
08-27-2009, 03:20 PM
My bad, I meant find me 5 full backs, peyton hillis is our full back, find me 5 fullbacks that return kicks , then you win.

Yeah, nice try. You know that's not what you meant. Can't even admit defeat when it couldn't be clearer. Nobody words it:

I challege you to find me 5 teams that use a RB as a kick returner. and it has to be a 1st or 2nd stringer, no 5th string RB.

because no team even HAS a 5th string fullback on their roster.

Beantown Bronco
08-27-2009, 03:21 PM
Felix Jones is 215 lbs. I guess if you honestly say you want a 250 lb man returning kicks over a 215 lb man, then I guess there is no convincing you.

Weight has NOTHING to do with this argument. If the 250 lb guy outperforms the 215 pound guy, then HELL YES I want him returning the kicks.

Beantown Bronco
08-27-2009, 03:22 PM
Felix Jones is 215 lbs. I guess if you honestly say you want a 250 lb man returning kicks over a 215 lb man, then I guess there is no convincing you.

Talk to McDaniels. He knows infinitely more about the game than either of us and he hasn't ruled it out as an option. So I think that leaves you, once again, on the wrong side of the argument.

Peoples Champ
08-27-2009, 03:25 PM
Weight has NOTHING to do with this argument. If the 250 lb guy outperforms the 215 pound guy, then HELL YES I want him returning the kicks.



All right, I guess there is no convincing you. The best player plays at every position. So if Peyton Hillis is our best kick returner on the team, sure put him back there, you win.

Peoples Champ
08-27-2009, 03:27 PM
Talk to McDaniels. He knows infinitely more about the game than either of us and he hasn't ruled it out as an option. So I think that leaves you, once again, on the wrong side of the argument.


Yes, if Hillis is our best returner and wins the position, then I will be wrong.

USMCBladerunner
08-27-2009, 03:53 PM
Yeah, nice try. You know that's not what you meant. Can't even admit defeat when it couldn't be clearer. Nobody words it:

I challege you to find me 5 teams that use a RB as a kick returner. and it has to be a 1st or 2nd stringer, no 5th string RB.

because no team even HAS a 5th string fullback on their roster.

Ahhh SNAP!!!

Chalk it up a win. The People's Champ just went down from the SC Stutter.

Peoples Champ
08-27-2009, 04:05 PM
Ahhh SNAP!!!

Chalk it up a win. The People's Champ just went down from the SC Stutter.



Ya i did get taken, i shouldnt have used my position argument, because so many players play many posistions.

I am just saying, use a little quick guy, not a big slow guy (if hillis returns one this year I will be proven wrong)

It just seems like teams that win superbowls always have a little quick guy back there.

Steelers last year had Russel and Davis, both little guys returning kicks. And Holmes returning punts.

Giants won the superbowl with RW McQuarters and Domonique Hixon returning in 2008, both little quick guys. Hixon returned a few, and probably was a factor in their path to the both. They wouldnt have gotten there if they used a big slow guy returning kicks, no matter how sure handed he is, and if he garuntees you 15 yards a return


Even our glorious Denver Broncos had a little quick guy returning kicks in 97 and 98 when we won super bowls, Was it Darrian Gordon? Or Detha Oniel, either way, small quick guy, and we won.

Even if your team stinks, you can ride a kick returner to the SB like the bears did a few years ago with hester, sure they had a good D, but without hester, they dont go to the bowl.


I would rather follow the path of winning teams.

Beantown Bronco
08-27-2009, 04:15 PM
To be honest, I think there's a less than 10% chance Hillis does win the kick return contest, if there even really is one.

My entire argument was really just a response to all those that don't want him to do it, not because they don't think he can do it, but because they are worried about him getting hurt doing it. I set out to prove two things:

1. that kick returners simply don't get hurt often enough for it even to be statistically relevant and

2. it hasn't scared away other teams from using their #1 and #2 RBs.

I think I win that one.

Peoples Champ
08-27-2009, 04:23 PM
To be honest, I think there's a less than 10% chance Hillis does win the kick return contest, if there even really is one.

My entire argument was really just a response to all those that don't want him to do it, not because they don't think he can do it, but because they are worried about him getting hurt doing it. I set out to prove two things:

1. that kick returners simply don't get hurt often enough for it even to be statistically relevant and

2. it hasn't scared away other teams from using their #1 and #2 RBs.

I think I win that one.


I will give you that.

And you will give me its better to have a smaller faster guy then a larger slower guy, even if the larger guy is more sure handed and garuntees a small chunk of yards.

Generally speaking, it just seems like the team that wins the bowl has a little speedy guy. I could be wrong though, there could be a team that won a superbowl with a big 250lb man returning kicks, i just dont feel like looking it up.

And in case the Broncos do suck , i would rather ride the back of a returner for a few lucky wins.

2KBack
08-27-2009, 04:29 PM
I will give you that.

And you will give me its better to have a smaller faster guy then a larger slower guy, even if the larger guy is more sure handed and garuntees a small chunk of yards.

Generally speaking, it just seems like the team that wins the bowl has a little speedy guy. I could be wrong though, there could be a team that won a superbowl with a big 250lb man returning kicks, i just dont feel like looking it up.

And in case the Broncos do suck , i would rather ride the back of a returner for a few lucky wins.

There's always the most successful return man in the history of the game.
http://img.fannation.com/upload/truth_rumor/photo_upload/108/510/full/Brian-Mitchell.jpg

Peoples Champ
08-27-2009, 04:34 PM
There's always the most successful return man in the history of the game.
http://img.fannation.com/upload/truth_rumor/photo_upload/108/510/full/Brian-Mitchell.jpg



Ya he was a big guy, listed at 220.

He did have a lot of return TD's, so if Peyton Hillis can do that, I would be all for it.

USMCBladerunner
08-27-2009, 04:37 PM
Ya i did get taken, i shouldnt have used my position argument, because so many players play many posistions.

I am just saying, use a little quick guy, not a big slow guy (if hillis returns one this year I will be proven wrong)

It just seems like teams that win superbowls always have a little quick guy back there.

Steelers last year had Russel and Davis, both little guys returning kicks. And Holmes returning punts.

Giants won the superbowl with RW McQuarters and Domonique Hixon returning in 2008, both little quick guys. Hixon returned a few, and probably was a factor in their path to the both. They wouldnt have gotten there if they used a big slow guy returning kicks, no matter how sure handed he is, and if he garuntees you 15 yards a return


Even our glorious Denver Broncos had a little quick guy returning kicks in 97 and 98 when we won super bowls, Was it Darrian Gordon? Or Detha Oniel, either way, small quick guy, and we won.

Even if your team stinks, you can ride a kick returner to the SB like the bears did a few years ago with hester, sure they had a good D, but without hester, they dont go to the bowl.


I would rather follow the path of winning teams.

I don't really disagree with you, I also think that Hillis is a bit of an odd fit for returning kicks. He does have a unique set of skills though, thus my previous "Tussin" comments, we seem willing to rub some Hillis on any problem we find.

Thanks for not getting all pissy about my post too, I was just having some fun.

2KBack
08-27-2009, 04:37 PM
Ya he was a big guy, listed at 220.

He did have a lot of return TD's, so if Peyton Hillis can do that, I would be all for it.

I've seen him listed as high as 230lbs, as the typical measurement game of the NFL goes. He's exactly what I would want out of a returner.

Of course all of this is speculation anyway.

PS- Jim Brown returned a few kicks in his day too, though not fulltime. Players today are too specified IMO

Peoples Champ
08-27-2009, 04:45 PM
I don't really disagree with you, I also think that Hillis is a bit of an odd fit for returning kicks. He does have a unique set of skills though, thus my previous "Tussin" comments, we seem willing to rub some Hillis on any problem we find.

Thanks for not getting all pissy about my post too, I was just having some fun.



Its cool, i would just rather have some little guy back there, seems to work better for teams.

Who knows, Hillis could be a stud at KR, i just would have him rather be a stud at RB and let some other dude take those big hits.

Peoples Champ
08-27-2009, 04:47 PM
I've seen him listed as high as 230lbs, as the typical measurement game of the NFL goes. He's exactly what I would want out of a returner.

Of course all of this is speculation anyway.

PS- Jim Brown returned a few kicks in his day too, though not fulltime. Players today are too specified IMO



Ya it would be fun seeing players play mulitple positions. Reggie bush and jones drew do it, but I would like to see some offense defense switch, like Champ wanted to do. Troy Brown did it on the Pats, but I think that was desperation.

I guess teams have two much money invested in each player to let them play more then one posistion.

ZONA
08-27-2009, 04:47 PM
Hillis is supposed to run over folks, its what he does. That is great in the ground game. Pretty much all the good return guys are fast and elusive - see Dainty Hall. Hillis is not this. He is not explosive, so I dont see him ever busting off one to the house.

Get a clue man. How many kicks are returned to the house, like 1%? I'd rather have a guy that can break a few tackles and give me consistent FP at the 35 then somebody who gets tackled right away and get me to the 20, oh, except 1% of the time when he can run one all the way back "to the house".

We don't have a Devin Hester so have to find somebody who can just be consistent at not turning it over, muffing it and somebody who can get some yards.

:rofl:

FireFly
08-27-2009, 04:48 PM
I don't want to risk him. We have others that could do the job just as well that aren't as integral to the team

maher_tyler
08-27-2009, 04:49 PM
Ya, no reason for a running back to take these hits.,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp5-yj8yWPY&feature=PlayList&p=90CA69978325CFF8&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwhvNX1GfeI


When he already takes these hits

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGvq-ptJEVo

No offense, i just think its dumb idea!

Even if he is the best returner..he's to valueable as a FB/RB to the offense than he is gaining 5-10 more yards on the kick return.

footstepsfrom#27
08-27-2009, 05:06 PM
Let Brandstater do it.

Inkana7
08-27-2009, 06:04 PM
Bring back Glenn Martinez

SouthStndJunkie
08-27-2009, 06:07 PM
Bring back Glenn Martinez

<IMG SRC="http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL637/2498345/22431097/372869100.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosting by PictureTrail.com">

SouthStndJunkie
08-27-2009, 06:08 PM
Actually, Glenn Martinez is on Houston's roster right now.

maher_tyler
08-27-2009, 06:25 PM
Let Brandstater do it.

:notworthy

cousinal11
08-27-2009, 06:28 PM
<IMG SRC="http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL637/2498345/22431097/372869100.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosting by PictureTrail.com">

:spit:ROFL!

listopencil
08-27-2009, 07:04 PM
I think he should be the starting RB, so I don't like it at all.

BroncoDoug
08-27-2009, 11:10 PM
I worry too about him wearing down later in games, returning a kick takes a lot out of someone, and could effect 4th quarter performance. But I'm on the side that says if Hillis is your best KR, then put him out there.

Mr. Elway
08-27-2009, 11:18 PM
I'd also rather see him at first string RB pending Moreno's return. I really don't see what Buckhalter or Jordan have shown that puts them ahead of him on the depth chart. All Hillis does is punish defenses, catch like a madman and takes the ball 5 yards up the middle every time. Start him!!

Peoples Champ
09-20-2009, 06:51 PM
I knew we shouldnt have Hillis back there, He has just as chance of fumbling as a backup DB or WR. And dont say it was an accident, because all fumbles are accidents.

Take him out from KR and keep him for the Goaline, you saw what he did around the goal line today!

BroncoDoug
09-20-2009, 07:11 PM
I knew we shouldnt have Hillis back there, He has just as chance of fumbling as a backup DB or WR. And dont say it was an accident, because all fumbles are accidents.

Take him out from KR and keep him for the Goaline, you saw what he did around the goal line today!

this

BroncoBuff
09-20-2009, 07:14 PM
Haven't read thru the thread, but pretty bad the way Josh benched Hillis after the fumble, sent Royal out there. You didn't see him benching Orton when he threw all those picks, so wtf was that ???

Hillis didn't deserve that.

rastaman
09-20-2009, 07:26 PM
Hillis is most effective as a FB, HB, and reciever out of the back field. He would serve as a perfect "safety valve" receiver for Orton.

SportinOne
09-20-2009, 07:33 PM
How do I feel about Hillis returning kicks?

He's got to be better than Alphonso Smith, that's for sure. Heck, put him at punt returner. Smith's been good in the nickel but get him off any sort of return team.

The fumble was just a fumble. It happens.

Peoples Champ
09-21-2009, 08:07 AM
Haven't read thru the thread, but pretty bad the way Josh benched Hillis after the fumble, sent Royal out there. You didn't see him benching Orton when he threw all those picks, so wtf was that ???

Hillis didn't deserve that.


Your right, but I dont think it was much as a punishment, more of "hey we tried you at KR, but you are better at RB and FB, so lets save you for the goaline and catching passes out of backfield, and we will let a WR or DB or someone else return kicks"

WolfpackGuy
09-21-2009, 08:13 AM
Dumb idea.
It's not like Hillis is the type to break off big returns regularly, so why expose him to the extra pounding?

Peoples Champ
09-21-2009, 10:39 AM
Dumb idea.
It's not like Hillis is the type to break off big returns regularly, so why expose him to the extra pounding?



Ya, we need him in the short yardage run plays. Shouldnt risk it. Troy Palomalu got hurt in a special teams play this year, we dont need that.

supermanhr9
09-21-2009, 10:43 AM
Hillis can do anythign we want him too, but it doesn't mean he shoudl be back there, however I HATE IT even more having Eddie back there, because honestly, he means more to our team, even though Peyton is a stud.

cabronco
09-21-2009, 11:08 AM
Dumb idea.
It's not like Hillis is the type to break off big returns regularly, so why expose him to the extra pounding?

This. Plus the kick off return coverage hasnt been too good either. They need to fix that and quit rotating return guys.

rastaman
09-21-2009, 12:03 PM
Next years draft, why not just draft for a player(s) that have specialized and performed return duties at an All-American level/all conference levels while in college.

Royal and Hillis are too valuable in their respective positions to become expendable to perform return duties and risk season/career ending injuries returning punts or kickoffs.

Beantown Bronco
09-21-2009, 12:17 PM
Next years draft, why not just draft for a player(s) that have specialized and performed return duties at an All-American level/all conference levels while in college.

Royal and Hillis are too valuable in their respective positions to become expendable to perform return duties and risk season/career ending injuries returning punts or kickoffs.

To be fair, that's more or less what they did with Royal last year. They didn't expect him to pan out so quickly and productively at WR in year one. It's a good problem to have, though.

Peoples Champ
10-20-2009, 12:37 PM
Anyone still think Hillis should return kicks?


My vote is still the man, the myth, the legend...........Steady Eddie Royal

BroncoDoug
10-20-2009, 01:02 PM
Anyone still think Hillis should return kicks?


My vote is still the man, the myth, the legend...........Steady Eddie Royal

haha, this is a pretty easy decision at this point....until Eddie fumbles..:wiggle:

TheDave
10-20-2009, 01:09 PM
Might as well... The guys who have been doing it up to now haven't impressed.

Or maybe we should just keep giving the ball to Royal... Idiot!

Bronco Yoda
12-19-2009, 05:23 PM
Royal is going to bust one all the way Sunday.