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View Full Version : Attention People: Josh McDaniels is living in the shadow of Mike Shanahan...


Taco John
08-15-2009, 12:46 PM
...and I can't change that fact. There is not a single rule that I could make to regulate this fact out of existence. If you don't like this fact is going to taint the discussion, a message board might not be your thing. This is going to be a major theme on any Broncos discussion board. It's just the situation as it is.

OABB
08-15-2009, 12:49 PM
...and I can't change that fact. There is not a single rule that I could make to regulate this fact out of existence. If you don't like this fact is going to taint the discussion, a message board might not be your thing.

this place is fine, and you do a great job. It's not your fault that most of the posters here are mental midgets and sensitive women. I wish the people here were men, and not little boys, but it is the internet, and most people suck.

Rock Chalk
08-15-2009, 12:49 PM
Implosion on losses is nothing new to the Mane Isaac. No need to start a thread about it.

Knee jerk reactions happen to everything and every single poster here is guilty of it for one thing or another.

Fortunately, Mike Shanahan's shadow is fairly small over the last decade. No big deal :)

Meck77
08-15-2009, 12:51 PM
Not that hard to overcome a 10 year DARK shadow of one playoff win. McD will more than likely have that next year.

Killericon
08-15-2009, 12:52 PM
...and I can't change that fact. There is not a single rule that I could make to regulate this fact out of existence. If you don't like this fact is going to taint the discussion, a message board might not be your thing. This is going to be a major theme on any Broncos discussion board. It's just the situation as it is.

What? You mean we fired a potential HOF coach who brought us our only Super Bowl wins, and it hasn't stopped being relevant to you a whole few months later?!?

Pfffff. Wimp.

Northman
08-15-2009, 12:54 PM
Not that hard to overcome a 10 year DARK shadow of one playoff win. McD will more than likely have that next year.

^This

broncosteven
08-15-2009, 12:55 PM
Not that hard to overcome a 10 year DARK shadow of one playoff win. McD will more than likely have that next year.

That would kick ass.

tnedator
08-15-2009, 12:59 PM
And, Orton is living in the shadow of Cutler. On the bright side, he is the first QB in Denver in the last decade to not be living in Elway's shadow. Love him or hate him, at least Cutler removed the Elway shadow and put the focus on good Cutler/bad Cutler.

Killericon
08-15-2009, 01:05 PM
At least Orton isn't living in Elway's shadow...yet.

Rock Chalk
08-15-2009, 01:07 PM
Shanahan's shadow right now is similar to filling the shadow of Landry in Dallas. By the time Landry was let go, Dallas was a shell of a team. Landry too was a HoF coach but the game outgrew him and he was too old to reinvent himself.

Shanahan may have a few more years left in the tank and if his tour of the great teams in the league today is any indication he is trying to learn new things which is good for him but he couldnt have done that and continued to be our head coach.

Merlin
08-15-2009, 01:08 PM
Not that hard to overcome a 10 year DARK shadow of one playoff win. McD will more than likely have that next year.
He first needs to be able to get to 500 football...and there is little reason to vote either way yet.

lex
08-15-2009, 01:14 PM
Its kind of painful watching this offense.

lex
08-15-2009, 01:16 PM
Shanahan's shadow right now is similar to filling the shadow of Landry in Dallas. By the time Landry was let go, Dallas was a shell of a team. Landry too was a HoF coach but the game outgrew him and he was too old to reinvent himself.

Shanahan may have a few more years left in the tank and if his tour of the great teams in the league today is any indication he is trying to learn new things which is good for him but he couldnt have done that and continued to be our head coach.

Not really. Denver was on the upswing in spite of the defensive woes. There was a lot of young talent that was only going to get better over the next few seasons.

Meck77
08-15-2009, 01:20 PM
He first needs to be able to get to 500 football...and there is little reason to vote either way yet.

I hear ya.

Let's say coach McD had a clause in his contract that said he couldn't be fired until 2019. Would you bet that he'd win one stinking playoff game during that stretch or would you bet against him?

My point is he's not filling that large of a shadow. Shanny's "mastermind status" left with Elway. If you haven't noticed we've defined Shanny's performance by the "potential" our offense had. People like to leave out the fact we were getting blown out by bad teams last year.

Sadly enough the benchmark McD needs to meet is around 8 wins over the next few years. Pathetic if you ask me.

Anaximines
08-15-2009, 01:25 PM
http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/josh_mcdaniels_checks_nfl?utm_source=a-section

lex
08-15-2009, 01:26 PM
I hear ya.

Let's say coach McD had a clause in his contract that said he couldn't be fired until 2019. Would you bet that he'd win one stinking playoff game during that stretch or would you bet against him?

My point is he's not filling that large of a shadow. Shanny's "mastermind status" left with Elway. If you haven't noticed we've defined Shanny's performance by the "potential" our offense had. People like to leave out the fact we were getting blown out by bad teams last year.

Sadly enough the benchmark McD needs to meet is around 8 wins over the next few years. Pathetic if you ask me.

This argument is so dumb. Actually, Denver has had one of the best records in the NFL since Elway retired and thats without having an elite QB like Manning or Brady. Do people complain about Belichick because he has never won a SB without Brady? Do people say that about Dungy? No! Thats a horrible argument.

Merlin
08-15-2009, 01:28 PM
If you haven't noticed we've defined Shanny's performance by the "potential" our offense had. People like to leave out the fact we were getting blown out by bad teams last year.
Just like you are leaving out their play against some good teams. I thought last yr this team was typical of a young team. They would concentrate and play well against good teams, and then would stink against teams they thought were inferior. That is the one thing that did piss me off last yr. It was quite obvious early on that the young guys were not giving enough respect to the poor teams, and I wish the coaching staff would have burned their a$$e$ for it. He had done something special with the offence, but too much leeway was given to Cutler in the decision making, and coaches were being too nice with the young guys and their arrogance.

kmonty
08-15-2009, 01:28 PM
Not that hard to overcome a 10 year DARK shadow of one playoff win. McD will more than likely have that next year.

You don't know what DARK is. We had the 5th best winning percentage in the NFL since 2000.

(Yeah, that's post-Elway, when Shanahan "didn't do anything").

Merlin
08-15-2009, 01:32 PM
Do people complain about Belichick because he has never won a SB without Brady? Do people say that about Dungy? No! Thats a horrible argument.
Not only that, but which teams beat Denver? Those Indy teams would only lose to NE, the Ravens were a SB team, and with a little luck at QB Denver could have made it more interesting. Lastly Pitt beat the SB winner from the previous yr and Denver could have won with a little luck. With a slightly better than avg QB, and a D with many wholes Denver was extremely competitive those yrs, far more than they should have been. That can be placed squarely on Shanny's shoulders, just like the some of his decisions on FA.

watermock
08-15-2009, 01:34 PM
Indeed, the offnse was solid ceplt for a franchise back, or 7 injuries. There were plenty of money and draft choices to upgrade the D. Bowlen could of fired Slowick over Shanny's head, but didn't have the balls.

He didn't have the balls to walk down the hall and tell Cutler he was the QB, and he didn't have the balls to keep Beavis from becoming GM and firing Goodman puting a cap guy in as a lackey GM in name only.

The exact thing Bowlen said he was ending wound up happening, not over 14 years, but 4 months..

tnedator
08-15-2009, 01:37 PM
You don't know what DARK is. We had the 5th best winning percentage in the NFL since 2000.

(Yeah, that's post-Elway, when Shanahan "didn't do anything").

Exactly. People like to chirp in with the "we didn't win the SB, it was a failed season", but that is BS. Very few teams go to the SB, forget win it. The Broncos had two, TWO, losing seasons since Elway retired. How many other teams in the NFL can claim that?

baja
08-15-2009, 01:42 PM
who is shanahan?

Meck77
08-15-2009, 01:44 PM
You don't know what DARK is. We had the 5th best winning percentage in the NFL since 2000.

(Yeah, that's post-Elway, when Shanahan "didn't do anything").

Actually kid you don't know what dark is. Being that you are 25 years old I highly doubt you remember the 1990 season since you were probably just 5 or 6 years old.

Shanny did rack up some nice wins over the last 10 years but Bowlen himself said when he dies he will be judged by SB wins only. Hence the change. Bowlen wanted more and has big balls even though some will argue differently.

tnedator
08-15-2009, 01:51 PM
Actually kid you don't know what dark is. Being that you are 25 years old I highly doubt you remember the 1990 season since you were probably just 5 or 6 years old.

We did rack up some nice wins but Bowlen himself said when he dies he will be judged by SB wins only. Hence the change. Bowlen wanted more and has big balls even though some will argue differently.

Only history will show whether making the move resulted in those SB's that Bowlen wants, but like you said, the early '90s had some dark times, but you can't compare the last few years to those.

The one thing Shanahan didn't get credit for was his ability to retool the team on the fly, without a rebuilding period. In hindsight, would it have been better to have a couple 3-5 win seasons and completely turn over the roster? Maybe, but few teams have been able to turn over their roster 2-3 times over a decade, with only a couple losing seasons.

Blart
08-15-2009, 02:06 PM
And a great QB like Plummer had to live in the shadow of the best. Even if McD gets us to the 1st round of the playoffs yearly, I'll hate him for not giving us two superbowls.

kmonty
08-15-2009, 02:11 PM
Actually kid you don't know what dark is. Being that you are 25 years old I highly doubt you remember the 1990 season since you were probably just 5 or 6 years old.

Shanny did rack up some nice wins over the last 10 years but Bowlen himself said when he dies he will be judged by SB wins only. Hence the change. Bowlen wanted more and has big balls even though some will argue differently.

You're pulling age-rank now? Seriously? Alright old-timer, what's your point? Make a valid argument. I don't have to be an old Broncos fan to know what "dark" is. All I have to do is look a few hundred miles west to Oaktown.

If Bowlen's "big balls" are what led to Shanahan being fired and Cutler being traded (and they are), I'd rather he keep his testicles out of it and start using his head.

broncosteven
08-15-2009, 02:12 PM
...

My point is he's not filling that large of a shadow. Shanny's "mastermind status" left with Elway. If you haven't noticed we've defined Shanny's performance by the "potential" our offense had. People like to leave out the fact we were getting blown out by bad teams last year.

Sadly enough the benchmark McD needs to meet is around 8 wins over the next few years. Pathetic if you ask me.

I dunno, I thought he did a lot with a one dimentional QB in 2005.

cutthemdown
08-15-2009, 02:21 PM
Actually kid you don't know what dark is. Being that you are 25 years old I highly doubt you remember the 1990 season since you were probably just 5 or 6 years old.

Shanny did rack up some nice wins over the last 10 years but Bowlen himself said when he dies he will be judged by SB wins only. Hence the change. Bowlen wanted more and has big balls even though some will argue differently.

yeah fans like us that went through all the Superbowl losses just have a different perspective. We love Shanny for getting us off the snide for Superbowls, not for the winning % since 2000. Who cares about that. I care about were the Broncos going to Superbowls? The answer is no.

Since Elway has gone the Broncos have failed to win the big games when they mattered most.

montrose
08-15-2009, 02:25 PM
Good thread Taco, it's quite obvious that for a very, very long time nearly every good or bad thing that happens to the Denver Broncos will be brought back to the dismissal of Mike Shanahan and hiring of Josh McDaniels. It's sad that it seems to have crossed over into other opinions in hopes of reinforcing an argument but that's the way it's going to be. Five, ten years from now I fully expect this board to be as divided on this issue (and incorporate it into nearly every post) just as much as it is today.

cutthemdown
08-15-2009, 02:25 PM
You're pulling age-rank now? Seriously? Alright old-timer, what's your point? Make a valid argument. I don't have to be an old Broncos fan to know what "dark" is. All I have to do is look a few hundred miles west to Oaktown.

If Bowlen's "big balls" are what led to Shanahan being fired and Cutler being traded (and they are), I'd rather he keep his testicles out of it and start using his head.

Oakland has been to a Superbowl since we have though. Sure they stunk in many reg seasons but the goal is going to Superbowls and winning them. So they came 1 game away from that. Not really as Dark as some teams like KC who haven't been in how long?

winning % is a nice stat. It means you have been decent for a long time. But really its all about winning your confrence, then putting on a show Superbowl Sunday.

Mcdaniels has a plan. I like the plan. I can't judge him yet I still like what I see.

BroncoMan4ever
08-15-2009, 02:26 PM
well for the good part of being in Mike's shadow, Mike hasn't been tearing it up for a long time. the shadow doesn't loom that big anymore. it isn't like Elway's where he carried the team his entire career and then ended it on the highest of notes, making it near impossible for a QB to ever live up to that shadow. Mike didn't do that, he tarnished himself the last few years and made it possible for a coach to replace him.

barryr
08-15-2009, 02:48 PM
This happens every year. Bozos that don't understand the game get hysterical over preseason games every year. It happened under Shanahan as well, so I didn't expect that to change much with a new coach. Teams don't show or use all of their game plans in these practice games, yet people are so convinced what they see is what they will get anyway.

tnedator
08-15-2009, 02:53 PM
yeah fans like us that went through all the Superbowl losses just have a different perspective. We love Shanny for getting us off the snide for Superbowls, not for the winning % since 2000. Who cares about that. I care about were the Broncos going to Superbowls? The answer is no.

Since Elway has gone the Broncos have failed to win the big games when they mattered most.

I went through the SB losses, I listened to the 'fans' calling into KOA and saying they hoped the Broncos lost in the first round of the playoffs, because the city of Denver couldn't handle another embarrassing blowout.

I will still take 10 year stretches where in our worst three year sub-stretch we average .500 ball, rather then go through the typical cyclical NFL cycles of being good for a few years, then going through 3-6 years of low, single digit wins (or a decade or more), while 'rebuilding' and hoping to get back to .500 ball, with the playoffs and SB not realistically on the radar.

Twice in recent years I have seen polls put up, would you rather go .500 or get the first round pick in the draft, and most people picked the .500, because knowing that any given Sunday our Broncos can win the game, is a lot better than winning 2-3 games, getting the first pick in the draft and 'hoping' that player will turn the team around.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-15-2009, 02:55 PM
Josh McDaniels is living in the shadow of Mike Shanahan...

Who knows what dumb football decisions lurk in the heart of McDaniels?

THE SHADOW KNOWS!

http://i29.tinypic.com/2vsncph.jpg

tnedator
08-15-2009, 02:58 PM
Oakland has been to a Superbowl since we have though. Sure they stunk in many reg seasons but the goal is going to Superbowls and winning them. So they came 1 game away from that. Not really as Dark as some teams like KC who haven't been in how long?

winning % is a nice stat. It means you have been decent for a long time. But really its all about winning your confrence, then putting on a show Superbowl Sunday.

Mcdaniels has a plan. I like the plan. I can't judge him yet I still like what I see.

Ok, so you're saying rather than have a decade with 7 winning seasons, one .500 season and two losing seasons, 4 playoff appearances, and one AFCCG appearance, you would rather be like Oakland?

You would rather go to the SB, and then have a total, TOTAL of 24 wins in the next six seasons, averaging 4 wins a season for 6 years?

Yes, the 'ultimate' goal is winning the SB, but you can't do that if you aren't putting up winning seasons, and taking a run at the a playoff birth, becuase once you get into the playoffs, anything can happen. When you are having 2, 3, 4 and 5 win seasons, you have NO shot at the SB, and it doesn't exactly make watching the game every Sunday very pleasant.

watermock
08-15-2009, 03:01 PM
This happens every year. Bozos that don't understand the game get hysterical over preseason games every year. It happened under Shanahan as well, so I didn't expect that to change much with a new coach. Teams don't show or use all of their game plans in these practice games, yet people are so convinced what they see is what they will get anyway.

I haven't seen ANYONE say this loss was indicative of how the regular season will go.

Beavis did however, look rather lost, kinda like Wade today.

Meck77
08-15-2009, 03:01 PM
You're pulling age-rank now? Seriously? Alright old-timer, what's your point? Make a valid argument. I don't have to be an old Broncos fan to know what "dark" is. All I have to do is look a few hundred miles west to Oaktown.


lol

We're just coming from a different perspective. 1990 is recent Broncos history for this "old timer". ;D

Look I understand where you are coming from. Shanny is all things to a younger generation of Bronco fans. Although we won a lot of games in the 80's those SB losses were pretty damn painful at the time. The point again is Bowlen sets the standard for success with his organization and he's defined it by SB WINS. Don't like that go cry to him.

kmonty
08-15-2009, 03:06 PM
Oakland has been to a Superbowl since we have though. Sure they stunk in many reg seasons but the goal is going to Superbowls and winning them. So they came 1 game away from that. Not really as Dark as some teams like KC who haven't been in how long?

winning % is a nice stat. It means you have been decent for a long time. But really its all about winning your confrence, then putting on a show Superbowl Sunday.

Mcdaniels has a plan. I like the plan. I can't judge him yet I still like what I see.

I'm not even talking about McDaniels. I like McD. I'm just talking about Shanahan.

The Super Bowl argument is fine... I completely agree that if you don't win it all, you didn't have a successful season. I've always believed that, and I've always felt that's something that separates Broncos fans from Chiefs and Chargers fans. But seriously, the Raiders have been more successful than us since 2000 because they LOST a Super Bowl? Come on. If they had won, fine, but they were a loser that year like 30 other teams.

Rock Chalk
08-15-2009, 03:08 PM
Ok, so you're saying rather than have a decade with 7 winning seasons, one .500 season and two losing seasons, 4 playoff appearances, and one AFCCG appearance, you would rather be like Oakland?

You would rather go to the SB, and then have a total, TOTAL of 24 wins in the next six seasons, averaging 4 wins a season for 6 years?

Yes, the 'ultimate' goal is winning the SB, but you can't do that if you aren't putting up winning seasons, and taking a run at the a playoff birth, becuase once you get into the playoffs, anything can happen. When you are having 2, 3, 4 and 5 win seasons, you have NO shot at the SB, and it doesn't exactly make watching the game every Sunday very pleasant.

Why are you arguing?

First of all, you aren't changing anyone's mind that disagrees with you. Second, your opinion is no more valid than the next concerning Shanahan and his successes/failures over the last 10 decades. What you accept as OK maybe someone else does not.

3 years without a playoff appearance is the longest stretch since prior to Elway. I don't care who you are, that isn't going to cut it in Denver and with Bowlen. The snide would have gotten worse long before it got better with Slowik as our DC and anyone who thinks opposite of that doesn't have their head screwed on right. Shanahan was going to keep Slowik as DC and added to the fact that the special teams in Denver under Shanahan were NEVER really great and most years just downright awful, it was time for Shanahan to go for a lot of people.

If you don't agree, that's awesome, and you are entitled to your opinion but arguing about this specific topic is an exercise in futility, for either side.

GreatBronco16
08-15-2009, 03:09 PM
...and I can't change that fact. There is not a single rule that I could make to regulate this fact out of existence. If you don't like this fact is going to taint the discussion, a message board might not be your thing. This is going to be a major theme on any Broncos discussion board. It's just the situation as it is.

:Whaaaa!:

kmonty
08-15-2009, 03:13 PM
lol

We're just coming from a different perspective. 1990 is recent Broncos history for this "old timer". ;D

Hehe, well I'm not delusional, I do remember 1990 and (believe it or not) I can understand it in historical perspective. It just seemed like I'd be reaffirming your "kid" label by simply replying "Nuh-uh!" ;D

(And lol "old-timer" was just in response to "kid")

tnedator
08-15-2009, 03:20 PM
Why are you arguing?

First of all, you aren't changing anyone's mind that disagrees with you. Second, your opinion is no more valid than the next concerning Shanahan and his successes/failures over the last 10 decades. What you accept as OK maybe someone else does not.

3 years without a playoff appearance is the longest stretch since prior to Elway. I don't care who you are, that isn't going to cut it in Denver and with Bowlen. The snide would have gotten worse long before it got better with Slowik as our DC and anyone who thinks opposite of that doesn't have their head screwed on right. Shanahan was going to keep Slowik as DC and added to the fact that the special teams in Denver under Shanahan were NEVER really great and most years just downright awful, it was time for Shanahan to go for a lot of people.

If you don't agree, that's awesome, and you are entitled to your opinion but arguing about this specific topic is an exercise in futility, for either side.

I'm fully on board with McD. I was surprised by the Shanahan firing, because I figured he would get at least one more year, but did think he was 'close' to being on the hot seat. I haven't agreed with everything that happened in the offseason, but I'll give McD credit for doing it "his way". He has a plan, and is implementing it, regardless of fan or media scrutiny.

My point is simply that people saying winning the SB is everything and whether we have a 2 win season or lose in the SB, it's the same thing, a failed season, are full of it. It's utter BS.

As to the three losing seasons being the most in x years for the Broncos, that's a contrary argument to the one I responded to, where they said the Raiders have had a better run since Elway retired than Denver, because they went to the SB in that time. They are in a six season sub 6 win stretch, and haven't even sniffed the playoffs. So, while I haven't been happy not getting into the playoffs the last three years, the fact is in NFL terms, a three year playoff drought is nothing.

Exactly how many teams have won the SB in the last 10 years?

7 teams have won, that means 24 teams (not including the Broncos) have not 'won' the SB since Denver's 2nd SB win.

14 teams have played in the SB, which means 17 teams (not including the Broncos), over half the league, have not played in the SB since the Broncos last SB win.

Taco John
08-15-2009, 03:37 PM
Good thread Taco, it's quite obvious that for a very, very long time nearly every good or bad thing that happens to the Denver Broncos will be brought back to the dismissal of Mike Shanahan and hiring of Josh McDaniels. It's sad that it seems to have crossed over into other opinions in hopes of reinforcing an argument but that's the way it's going to be. Five, ten years from now I fully expect this board to be as divided on this issue (and incorporate it into nearly every post) just as much as it is today.



I do to. That's the way sports works. This isn't an "Orange Mane" phenomenon. This is a sports phenomenon.

There is a thread of thought that is running in this forum that says "I wish that everybody would just forget about the accomplishments of Shanahan (or get on board in bashing him), so that we can focus on how great we're going to be now that he's gone."

It's not going to work like that, as much as anyone wishes that it did. The only way that anyone ever forgets about Mike Shanahan is if Josh McDaniels wins.

The Broncos fanbase is undergoing trauma due to the divorce between Bowlen and Shanahan and all the subsequent fallout that occured from that event. The ONLY thing that will cure that trauma is winning.

wolf754life
08-15-2009, 03:43 PM
the broncos are rebuilding and healing, it will take time, but in 3 years we will be a Major contender for a title!

oubronco
08-15-2009, 03:48 PM
:approve:Not that hard to overcome a 10 year DARK shadow of one playoff win. McD will more than likely have that next year.

God we hope so

Pontius Pirate
08-15-2009, 03:50 PM
This thread is valuable. I'd have never known that McDaniels is living in Shanahan's shadow. I wasn't even aware Denver had coaches prior to McDaniels. Who is this Shanahan guy by the way?

wolf754life
08-15-2009, 03:52 PM
you belong to the city, you belong to the night, livin in a river of darkness beneath the neon light..................

tnedator
08-15-2009, 04:03 PM
the broncos are rebuilding and healing, it will take time, but in 3 years we will be a Major contender for a title!

Or, like most teams that hire a rookie head coach, we will be looking for a new head coach.

I hope we wind up in the "contending for a title" group, rather than "looking for a new head coach" group.

SoCalBronco
08-15-2009, 04:15 PM
you belong to the city, you belong to the night, livin in a river of darkness beneath the neon light..................

Glenn Frey >>> Coach Josh

cutthemdown
08-15-2009, 04:36 PM
I went through the SB losses, I listened to the 'fans' calling into KOA and saying they hoped the Broncos lost in the first round of the playoffs, because the city of Denver couldn't handle another embarrassing blowout.

I will still take 10 year stretches where in our worst three year sub-stretch we average .500 ball, rather then go through the typical cyclical NFL cycles of being good for a few years, then going through 3-6 years of low, single digit wins (or a decade or more), while 'rebuilding' and hoping to get back to .500 ball, with the playoffs and SB not realistically on the radar.

Twice in recent years I have seen polls put up, would you rather go .500 or get the first round pick in the draft, and most people picked the .500, because knowing that any given Sunday our Broncos can win the game, is a lot better than winning 2-3 games, getting the first pick in the draft and 'hoping' that player will turn the team around.


I'll take any decade where we win a Superbowl. That's all I care about. I would rather go 3-13 for 4 yrs in a row then win a superbowl then be 10-6 9-7 11-5 8-8 7-9 and win no superbowls.

Its all about winning it all.

broncosteven
08-15-2009, 05:51 PM
Glenn Frey >>> Coach Josh

Don Henley >>> Glen Frey

Scratch that:

Gene Kranz >>> Don Henley >>>Glen Frey.

rastaman
08-15-2009, 06:06 PM
Not that hard to overcome a 10 year DARK shadow of one playoff win. McD will more than likely have that next year.

McD.....will have the "Yoke" of Uncle Shanahan hanging over him until he can prove he can win!!!:sunshine:

Rock Chalk
08-15-2009, 06:11 PM
I do to. That's the way sports works. This isn't an "Orange Mane" phenomenon. This is a sports phenomenon.

There is a thread of thought that is running in this forum that says "I wish that everybody would just forget about the accomplishments of Shanahan (or get on board in bashing him), so that we can focus on how great we're going to be now that he's gone."

It's not going to work like that, as much as anyone wishes that it did. The only way that anyone ever forgets about Mike Shanahan is if Josh McDaniels wins.

The Broncos fanbase is undergoing trauma due to the divorce between Bowlen and Shanahan and all the subsequent fallout that occured from that event. The ONLY thing that will cure that trauma is winning.

The only problem I see Isaac is that no one bashes Shanahan. Just because they guy has been a complete failure the last 3 years and a mediocre coach the last 10 years doesnt mean anyone is bashing him. We ALL love Shanahan, and I think you will find a hard time finding ANYONE (other than wolf) who didn't or doesnt love Shanahan.

Those that wanted him gone just think that 10 years with ONE playoff win and 3 straight years of no playoffs and the biggest epic choke job in FOOTBALL HISTORY is enough to excuse him from being our head coach anymore.

fdf
08-15-2009, 06:12 PM
. . . Shanny's "mastermind status" left with Elway. If you haven't noticed we've defined Shanny's performance by the "potential" our offense had. People like to leave out the fact we were getting blown out by bad teams last year.

Sadly enough the benchmark McD needs to meet is around 8 wins over the next few years. Pathetic if you ask me.

Good post. What was left of "mastermindness" left with Gary Kubiak.

It is true though that Orton and McDaniels will live in the shadow of certain fans fantasies about how great Cutler and Shanahan were.

NYBronco
08-15-2009, 06:13 PM
This thread is valuable. I'd have never known that McDaniels is living in Shanahan's shadow. I wasn't even aware Denver had coaches prior to McDaniels. Who is this Shanahan guy by the way?

The mastermind was 24 and 24 the last three years prior to his eventual decision to disagree with the owner handsomely supporting his livilihood and went 8 and 8 his final year missing the playoffs with a three game lead in the division by not winning just one of the last three games.

The shadow of Shanahan has set the bar so high it seems almost unreachable. Hail to the almighty mastermind. McD is just a bad person.

rastaman
08-15-2009, 06:17 PM
Oakland has been to a Superbowl since we have though. Sure they stunk in many reg seasons but the goal is going to Superbowls and winning them. So they came 1 game away from that. Not really as Dark as some teams like KC who haven't been in how long?

winning % is a nice stat. It means you have been decent for a long time. But really its all about winning your confrence, then putting on a show Superbowl Sunday.

Mcdaniels has a plan. I like the plan. I can't judge him yet I still like what I see.

All coaches have a plan to get to the SB. All they can do is hope they can accomplish that goal. What are the odds of McD becoming a SB coach? The odds are great thats for sure. In fact how many Belecheck "disciples" have reached the SB since leaving NE and becoming HC's! To be exact zero. So the question remains which of the Belicheck assistant coaches will win their first SB before their coach mates.

I say get behind McD when he proves he can win.....until then, don't get excited nor hold your breath. McD has a much greater chance of returning to NE as an OC than he does leading Denver to its first post Shanahan SB.

rastaman
08-15-2009, 06:26 PM
The only problem I see Isaac is that no one bashes Shanahan. Just because they guy has been a complete failure the last 3 years and a mediocre coach the last 10 years doesnt mean anyone is bashing him. We ALL love Shanahan, and I think you will find a hard time finding ANYONE (other than wolf) who didn't or doesnt love Shanahan.

Those that wanted him gone just think that 10 years with ONE playoff win and 3 straight years of no playoffs and the biggest epic choke job in FOOTBALL HISTORY is enough to excuse him from being our head coach anymore.

Although Shanahan was emotional at his news conference after his firing, he even admited that he didn't get it done and no excuses. So how can hate a guy with that much class. Mike will get another opportunity and Bronco fans will not only wish him the best, but will actually follow his new teams successes, failures and SB(s). Point is, Shanahan will always be a Bronco IMHO.

Rock Chalk
08-15-2009, 06:29 PM
Although Shanahan was emotional at his news conference after his firing, he even admited that he didn't get it done and no excuses. So how can hate a guy with that much class. Mike will get another opportunity and Bronco fans will not only wish him the best, but will actually follow his new teams successes, failures and SB(s). Point is, Shanahan will always be a Bronco IMHO.

Agreed.

Popps
08-15-2009, 06:38 PM
Taco,

The last "attention people" thread you crapped out was how we were all idiots for assuming there may be a coaching change and how all of us dummies needed to quit talking about the possibility.

(On the eve of Shanahan's firing, of course.)

But, please... keep imparting your wisdom and talking down to your user-base. It's worked out well so far... right Gutless?

Arkie
08-15-2009, 07:11 PM
Shanahan's shadow right now is similar to filling the shadow of Landry in Dallas.

Very very similar. Both teams were three years removed from the playoffs. Landry actually had 20 straight winning seasons before those last three years. Cowboy fans just got used to playoffs being a regular part of the season. Many doubted Jimmy when he took over, many more doubted him after his first season ended 1-15. That was the lowest point in franchise history. It can be incredibly horrible, and then turn into something great. Maybe not "dynasty" great, but the Cowboys proved it can happen. Keep hope alive! :charge: Ha!

lex
08-15-2009, 07:16 PM
The only problem I see Isaac is that no one bashes Shanahan. Just because they guy has been a complete failure the last 3 years and a mediocre coach the last 10 years doesnt mean anyone is bashing him. We ALL love Shanahan, and I think you will find a hard time finding ANYONE (other than wolf) who didn't or doesnt love Shanahan.

Those that wanted him gone just think that 10 years with ONE playoff win and 3 straight years of no playoffs and the biggest epic choke job in FOOTBALL HISTORY is enough to excuse him from being our head coach anymore.


No, you are bashing him. Denver has had one of the best records since during the past 10 years. If youre going to say its about the postseason, thats what the past three years have kind of been about...theyve been turning over the roster while still remaining competitive. Hardly a failure at all. In creating a lie, bashing him is exactly what youre doing.

tnedator
08-15-2009, 07:24 PM
Very very similar. Both teams were three years removed from the playoffs. Landry actually had 20 straight winning seasons before those last three years. Cowboy fans just got used to playoffs being a regular part of the season. Many doubted Jimmy when he took over, many more doubted him after his first season ended 1-15. That was the lowest point in franchise history. It can be incredibly horrible, and then turn into something great. Maybe not "dynasty" great, but the Cowboys proved it can happen. Keep hope alive! :charge: Ha!

Yes, but then after 6 winning seasons, the Cowboys went back into the trough of the typical NFL cycle, something Broncos fans haven't experienced for decades.

They had losing seasons in 5 of their next 8 seaons, with three 5 win seasons and two 6 win seasons, and one 8 win season.

I live in Cowboys country, and while there high years with Smith, Aikman and the others and the SB wins were great, those six winning seasons were sandwiched between five losing seasons before, and five of eight seasons after.

I heard the Cowboys fans saying, "We've drafted _____ and picked up ____, I think we can win 6 or 7 games this year".

That is something that Broncos fans haven't had to endure for over 25 years. We have never been in a situation of winning 5 games three years in a row and saying "I think we can win 7 this year" and looking forward to a 7 game season.

I've said it before, and will say it again. Broncos fans are spoiled and have lost touch with the reality of what the rest of the NFL team's fans go through year in and year out.

TonyR
08-15-2009, 07:24 PM
Denver has had one of the best records since during the past 10 years...

Meh. How many playoff wins in that same period?

watermock
08-15-2009, 07:31 PM
jesus.

footstepsfrom#27
08-15-2009, 07:44 PM
...and I can't change that fact. There is not a single rule that I could make to regulate this fact out of existence. If you don't like this fact is going to taint the discussion, a message board might not be your thing. This is going to be a major theme on any Broncos discussion board. It's just the situation as it is.
Excuses excuses... ;D

lex
08-15-2009, 08:29 PM
meh. How many playoff wins in that same period?

rif

HEAV
08-15-2009, 08:41 PM
I do to. That's the way sports works. This isn't an "Orange Mane" phenomenon. This is a sports phenomenon.

There is a thread of thought that is running in this forum that says "I wish that everybody would just forget about the accomplishments of Shanahan (or get on board in bashing him), so that we can focus on how great we're going to be now that he's gone."

It's not going to work like that, as much as anyone wishes that it did. The only way that anyone ever forgets about Mike Shanahan is if Josh McDaniels wins.

The Broncos fanbase is undergoing trauma due to the divorce between Bowlen and Shanahan and all the subsequent fallout that occured from that event. The ONLY thing that will cure that trauma is winning.



Aren't you the same guy that rooted for Plummer to fail, even when he was winning games you kept pointing out his faults and saying Gresie shouldn't have been let go?

Aren't you the same guy that blasted fans that wanted Shanny gone?

Aren't you the person that set the bar so low for the site by making the "Gutless Drunk" thread?

Like I said in the other thread Issac. Look in the damn mirror!

As the owner of this product (The Orange Mane) you have control over how product is viewed. You could have you mods do more cleaning, you could have posters on notice that while discussions on topics are fine flame wars aren't going to cross lines.


No one is saying that the comparisons or discussions should be hinderd. It's the content and verbiage that needs monitored and edited.

It's not about saying : McDaniels isn't in Shannahan class of coaching and Bowlen made a error in hiring him.

It's the knuckle heads that post: McDummy sucks, Beavis is clueless, Ab-orton sucks, Bowlen is a guttless drunk and coward.

It's these type postings that bring down this site.

Here is another example.
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2507989&postcount=1

uplink
08-15-2009, 08:57 PM
I didn't want Shanny to go but now I see he got stale and needed a change. Bowlen made a good choice changing things and picking McD, he'll be a winner.
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Cito Pelon
08-16-2009, 08:01 AM
Not only that, but which teams beat Denver? Those Indy teams would only lose to NE, the Ravens were a SB team, and with a little luck at QB Denver could have made it more interesting. Lastly Pitt beat the SB winner from the previous yr and Denver could have won with a little luck. With a slightly better than avg QB, and a D with many wholes Denver was extremely competitive those yrs, far more than they should have been. That can be placed squarely on Shanny's shoulders, just like the some of his decisions on FA.

Well, Denver was the last seed in the playoffs those years (except for the lone AFC West title year post-Elway). And those playoff years the team was fading down the stretch. And the team was just totally stomped in the playoff losses, they were never in the game from the opening whistle, they never even made it a competition in the playoff losses.

It was nice to make the playoffs, but it wasn't like Shanny was putting together great teams year after year. It wasn't a great ten-year stretch in Bronco history.

lex
08-16-2009, 08:27 AM
Well, Denver was the last seed in the playoffs those years (except for the lone AFC West title year post-Elway). And those playoff years the team was fading down the stretch. And the team was just totally stomped in the playoff losses, they were never in the game from the opening whistle, they never even made it a competition in the playoff losses.

It was nice to make the playoffs, but it wasn't like Shanny was putting together great teams year after year. It wasn't a great ten-year stretch in Bronco history.

How would you assess the coaching jobs done by Bill Belichick at New England and Tony Dungy at Indianapolis over the past 10 years? Would you say its better than what Shanahan has done in Denver?

c_lazy_r
08-16-2009, 10:10 AM
glenn frey >>> coach josh



Nice ;D

Taco John
08-16-2009, 10:20 AM
Aren't you the same guy that rooted for Plummer to fail, even when he was winning games you kept pointing out his faults and saying Gresie shouldn't have been let go?


Nope. You've got someone else in mind. I never once rooted for Plummer to fail. I was just vocal about the fact that he was constantly doing it.

missingnumber7
08-16-2009, 10:28 AM
Aren't you the same guy that rooted for Plummer to fail, even when he was winning games you kept pointing out his faults and saying Gresie shouldn't have been let go?

Aren't you the same guy that blasted fans that wanted Shanny gone?

Aren't you the person that set the bar so low for the site by making the "Gutless Drunk" thread?

Like I said in the other thread Issac. Look in the damn mirror!

As the owner of this product (The Orange Mane) you have control over how product is viewed. You could have you mods do more cleaning, you could have posters on notice that while discussions on topics are fine flame wars aren't going to cross lines.


No one is saying that the comparisons or discussions should be hinderd. It's the content and verbiage that needs monitored and edited.

It's not about saying : McDaniels isn't in Shannahan class of coaching and Bowlen made a error in hiring him.

It's the knuckle heads that post: McDummy sucks, Beavis is clueless, Ab-orton sucks, Bowlen is a guttless drunk and coward.

It's these type postings that bring down this site.

Here is another example.
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2507989&postcount=1

No sir you were wrong...its these types of postings that bring this message board down...particularly your personal attacks on the man that has done everything to keep this open forum up and running.

WolfpackGuy
08-16-2009, 10:28 AM
There were never any salary cap purges under Shanahan, and his worst season was 6-10.
Shanahan was always rebuilding on the fly, but his misses on draft picks and free agents ultimately caught up with him.
The worst place to be in today's NFL is the middle ground.
You're not totally horrible, but you're not good enough to compete for the Super Bowl either.

Taco John
08-16-2009, 10:28 AM
The only problem I see Isaac is that no one bashes Shanahan.


:rofl:

I don't even know what to say to that... This is really what you believe?

rastaman
08-16-2009, 10:36 AM
How would you assess the coaching jobs done by Bill Belichick at New England and Tony Dungy at Indianapolis over the past 10 years? Would you say its better than what Shanahan has done in Denver?

Belichick and Dungy over a 10 year period had Brady and Peyton as their QB's. Those are franchise, pro bowl, HOF qb's. Shanny hasn't had a bonifide franchise, pro bowl, HOF Qb since Elway retired. Of course Shanny had Cutler who proved to have pro bowl--franchise qb credentials, but their relationship was cut short before it had a chance to take affect.

tnedator
08-16-2009, 11:01 AM
Well, Denver was the last seed in the playoffs those years (except for the lone AFC West title year post-Elway). And those playoff years the team was fading down the stretch. And the team was just totally stomped in the playoff losses, they were never in the game from the opening whistle, they never even made it a competition in the playoff losses.

It was nice to make the playoffs, but it wasn't like Shanny was putting together great teams year after year. It wasn't a great ten-year stretch in Bronco history.

Well, that's a half glass empty, distorted view of those years.

There is a concept in the NFL called matchups. The Broncos did not matchup well against Indy, but did against other teams, like NE for instance. So, even though NE was one of the best teams in the NFL, we had their number, Indy had ours. Our defense, simply did not match up against Indy, and therefore they torched us, specifically their slot receiver against our nickel back.

If the playoffs had seeded differently, so we played a team other than Indy, it is very possible the outcomes would have been different. NE could be Indy, and we could be NE, but we coudn't beat Indy. Hence the reason we drafted three CB's, traded for Champ, etc.

So, if you want to talk about those dark years, where in the three year playoff stretch only Indy and NE had a better record than us, as a 'failure' than you might be hard pressed to find many NFL seasons that aren't a failure.

Cito Pelon
08-16-2009, 11:05 AM
How would you assess the coaching jobs done by Bill Belichick at New England and Tony Dungy at Indianapolis [/B] over the past 10 years? Would you say its better than what Shanahan has done in Denver[/B]?

Certainly. I'd also add in Cowher, Reeves in ATL, Marty in SD, Vermeil in STL, Holmgren in SEA, Lovie in CHI, Gruden in OAK & TB, Callahan in OAK, Billick in BALT, Reid in PHI, etc, etc, etc.

Hell, any HC that had his team winning more than one playoff game since 1998 was a better coach than Shanahan. Any coach that won more than one Divisional Title since 1998 was a better coach than Shanahan. Any coach that had his team even compete well in a playoff loss was a better coach than Shanahan.

lex
08-16-2009, 11:08 AM
Well, that's a half glass empty, distorted view of those years.

There is a concept in the NFL called matchups. The Broncos did not matchup well against Indy, but did against other teams, like NE for instance. So, even though NE was one of the best teams in the NFL, we had their number, Indy had ours. Our defense, simply did not match up against Indy, and therefore they torched us, specifically their slot receiver against our nickel back.

If the playoffs had seeded differently, so we played a team other than Indy, it is very possible the outcomes would have been different. NE could be Indy, and we could be NE, but we coudn't beat Indy. Hence the reason we drafted three CB's, traded for Champ, etc.

So, if you want to talk about those dark years, where in the three year playoff stretch only Indy and NE had a better record than us, as a 'failure' than you might be hard pressed to find many NFL seasons that aren't a failure.

This is true for the most part about Indy but its worth pointing out that during the first year that we lost to Indy in the playoffs, we had played Indy in their building in a meaningful game a few weeks before and wiped the field with them. That was the game where Quentin Griffin had over 100 yards. If Portis was there it could have been worse. But, regardless, during that season, it was all about whose offense asserted itself first. We jumped on them in the first game with our running game but they jumped on us early in the subsequent game with their passing game.

I also remember just before that playoff game a camera shot of a Broncos defensive linemen talking junk related to trouncing them the week before. I cringed when I saw this and, sure enough, the Colts should have been treated with more respect.

lex
08-16-2009, 11:10 AM
Certainly. I'd also add in Cowher, Reeves in ATL, Marty in SD, Vermeil in STL, Holmgren in SEA, Lovie in CHI, Gruden in OAK & TB, Callahan in OAK, Billick in BALT, Reid in PHI, etc, etc, etc.

Hell, any HC that had his team winning more than one playoff game since 1998 was a better coach than Shanahan. Any coach that won more than one Divisional Title since 1998 was a better coach than Shanahan. Any coach that had his team even compete well in a playoff loss was a better coach than Shanahan.

Extremely myopic and arbitrary but interesting nonetheless.

tnedator
08-16-2009, 11:18 AM
This is true for the most part about Indy but its worth pointing out that during the first year that we lost to Indy in the playoffs, we had played Indy in their building in a meaningful game a few weeks before and wiped the field with them. That was the game where Quentin Griffin had over 100 yards. If Portis was there it could have been worse. But, regardless, during that season, it was all about whose offense asserted itself first. We jumped on them in the first game with our running game but they jumped on us early in the subsequent game with their passing game.

I also remember just before that playoff game a camera shot of a Broncos defensive linemen talking junk related to trouncing them the week before. I cringed when I saw this and, sure enough, the Colts should have been treated with more respect.

Yes, that regular season game is the one where we had the ball something like 45 minutes. Our defense played Manning's game. Realizing that he didn't call his actual play until the last couple seconds, Wilson and the D was disguising their defense until the play clock was down to 3-5 seconds and it was keeping Manning uncomfortable.

On the offense side of the ball, we ran the ball effectively early, had long, sustained drives, and got the lead early.

So, you're right, we did dominate that game, but in the playoff games, our defense was simply no match for their high flying, passing offense.

epicSocialism4tw
08-16-2009, 11:22 AM
And, Orton is living in the shadow of Cutler. On the bright side, he is the first QB in Denver in the last decade to not be living in Elway's shadow. Love him or hate him, at least Cutler removed the Elway shadow and put the focus on good Cutler/bad Cutler.

Every QB who plays in Denver will play under the Elway shadow until all of us folks who watched Elway play for his career die off.

Winning expectations? Part of Elway's shadow.

A QB who can win games for the team? Elways shadow.

A QB with a strong arm? Elways shadow.

A QB who can rally the troops? Elways shadow.

Denver fans think that all of the above should be encapsulated in their QB. Fans of other franchises dont expect the same things.

tnedator
08-16-2009, 11:34 AM
Every QB who plays in Denver will play under the Elway shadow until all of us folks who watched Elway play for his career die off.

Winning expectations? Part of Elway's shadow.

A QB who can win games for the team? Elways shadow.

A QB with a strong arm? Elways shadow.

A QB who can rally the troops? Elways shadow.

Denver fans think that all of the above should be encapsulated in their QB. Fans of other franchises dont expect the same things.

Yes, all of that is true, but....

Orton is the first QB that is being compared to Cutler far, far more than Elway (no one is really comparing him to Elway).

Elway is clearly still the standard, but Cutler (and to a degree time), has Orton being compared to his predecessor, rather than Elway.

lex
08-16-2009, 11:41 AM
Yes, that regular season game is the one where we had the ball something like 45 minutes. Our defense played Manning's game. Realizing that he didn't call his actual play until the last couple seconds, Wilson and the D was disguising their defense until the play clock was down to 3-5 seconds and it was keeping Manning uncomfortable.

On the offense side of the ball, we ran the ball effectively early, had long, sustained drives, and got the lead early.

So, you're right, we did dominate that game, but in the playoff games, our defense was simply no match for their high flying, passing offense.

Yeah, Shanahan's mistake was that he was willing to weaken a position of strength in order to improve a weakness. This is something that should never be done. If Sundquist cant draft well enough to help your defense, then get rid of Sundquist. Dont minimize your competitive advantage. I always refer back to Indianapolis. When Indy needed had both Wayne and Harrison and needed help on defense, did Indy trade Wayne to help their defense? No, because they would have been weakening their competitive advantage (ie their passing game). Bill Polian was too smart to do that and he was also much better at drafting than what Denver was under Sundquist.

But in spite of all that, Denver still had one of the more competitive teams over the past 10 years and that ties back to Shanahan's acumen as a head coach to a large extent.

People dont realize that Shanahan was on the coaching staff at Oklahoma back in the 70s when they ran the wishbone. He was an offensive coordinator at UF when they handed Miami its only defeat in 1983. He was with Elway in Denver for several years leading up to his days with Oakland. Shanahan had spent a lot of time coaching and had seen a lot of football well before he adapted his philosophy to the WCO (which, albeit is a misnomer to a degree). Shanahan didnt only know the 49er way prior to going to Denver. He had a much broader base of knowledge to refer to. He knew his Xs and Os probably better than anyone including Belichick.

I havent blindly accepted all things Shanahan but some of the criticism and comparions people are making are beyond absurd.

epicSocialism4tw
08-16-2009, 11:50 AM
Yes, all of that is true, but....

Orton is the first QB that is being compared to Cutler far, far more than Elway (no one is really comparing him to Elway).

Elway is clearly still the standard, but Cutler (and to a degree time), has Orton being compared to his predecessor, rather than Elway.

Orton isnt really being compared to anybody. We all know that Orton is a major step down, and the expectations are lower than they ever have been for a Bronco QB.

Orton is generally seen as a crappy player, so theres really not a whole lot worth comparing.

tnedator
08-16-2009, 12:00 PM
Orton isnt really being compared to anybody. We all know that Orton is a major step down, and the expectations are lower than they ever have been for a Bronco QB.

Orton is generally seen as a crappy player, so theres really not a whole lot worth comparing.

Define 'crappy QB'? Someone is traded along WITH two first round picks for a drunken, overrated (according to much popular opinions, not necessarily mine) QB? lol

WolfpackGuy
08-16-2009, 12:14 PM
Yeah, Shanahan's mistake was that he was willing to weaken a position of strength in order to improve a weakness. This is something that should never be done.

Bingo!

The defense should've been retooled front to back rather than back to front.

The way to beat the Colts was/is to get in Manning's face and/or keep him off the field with a solid running game. Not pin your hopes on your 3rd CB.

I love Champ, but those letting go of those 3000 yards and 30 TD's Portis put up in two years is still hard for me to stomach.

tnedator
08-16-2009, 12:17 PM
Bingo!

The defense should've been retooled front to back rather than back to front.

The way to beat the Colts was/is to get in Manning's face and/or keep him off the field with a solid running game. Not pin your hopes on your 3rd CB.

I love Champ, but those letting go of those 3000 yards and 30 TD's Portis put up in two years is still hard for me to stomach.

According to McDaniels and Nolan, you retool back to front, starting with safeties and corners and then work forward.

WolfpackGuy
08-16-2009, 12:29 PM
According to McDaniels and Nolan, you retool back to front, starting with safeties and corners and then work forward.

Great, so we can continue to expect the high priced secondary to chase around receivers for 8-9 seconds. Awesome...

tnedator
08-16-2009, 12:41 PM
Great, so we can continue to expect the high priced secondary to chase around receivers for 8-9 seconds. Awesome...

Don't kill the messenger, wolfy. I'm just telling you that Nolan has stated the same thing, and Nolan has bult from the back forward in two stops before Denver.

BroncoMan4ever
08-16-2009, 12:54 PM
Every QB who plays in Denver will play under the Elway shadow until all of us folks who watched Elway play for his career die off.

Winning expectations? Part of Elway's shadow.

A QB who can win games for the team? Elways shadow.

A QB with a strong arm? Elways shadow.

A QB who can rally the troops? Elways shadow.

Denver fans think that all of the above should be encapsulated in their QB. Fans of other franchises dont expect the same things.

we have been spoiled by greatness. while other franchises are hoping to find a QB that can get their team wins, we are looking for the next Elway. we aren't satisfied to just win, we want a near God playing behind center.

Cito Pelon
08-16-2009, 01:12 PM
Well, that's a half glass empty, distorted view of those years.

There is a concept in the NFL called matchups. The Broncos did not matchup well against Indy, but did against other teams, like NE for instance. So, even though NE was one of the best teams in the NFL, we had their number, Indy had ours. Our defense, simply did not match up against Indy, and therefore they torched us, specifically their slot receiver against our nickel back.

If the playoffs had seeded differently, so we played a team other than Indy, it is very possible the outcomes would have been different. NE could be Indy, and we could be NE, but we coudn't beat Indy. Hence the reason we drafted three CB's, traded for Champ, etc.

So, if you want to talk about those dark years, where in the three year playoff stretch only Indy and NE had a better record than us, as a 'failure' than you might be hard pressed to find many NFL seasons that aren't a failure.

You have a good point. Nevertheless, Denver was the last seed in the playoffs, and they faded down the stretch after starting 5-2, 7-2 something like that. Denver was not a good team, and that's the bottom line. Denver fielded only one team since 1998 that won a title of any kind, and that was the lowest title available, the Division title.

That was the worst 10-year stretch with only one Title since 1960-1977. You can try to sugar coat it, but that ten-year stretch from 1998-2008 was the worst in many ways since 1960-1977. Shanahan let the franchise down. You can't keep rewarding people that don't uphold the franchise standards.

colonelbeef
08-16-2009, 01:51 PM
Shanahan's shadow right now is similar to filling the shadow of Landry in Dallas. By the time Landry was let go, Dallas was a shell of a team. Landry too was a HoF coach but the game outgrew him and he was too old to reinvent himself.

Shanahan may have a few more years left in the tank and if his tour of the great teams in the league today is any indication he is trying to learn new things which is good for him but he couldnt have done that and continued to be our head coach.

This post is so willfully ignorant of the reality of the situation that I won't even bother correcting you

tnedator
08-16-2009, 02:53 PM
You have a good point. Nevertheless, Denver was the last seed in the playoffs, and they faded down the stretch after starting 5-2, 7-2 something like that. Denver was not a good team, and that's the bottom line. Denver fielded only one team since 1998 that won a title of any kind, and that was the lowest title available, the Division title.

That was the worst 10-year stretch with only one Title since 1960-1977. You can try to sugar coat it, but that ten-year stretch from 1998-2008 was the worst in many ways since 1960-1977. Shanahan let the franchise down. You can't keep rewarding people that don't uphold the franchise standards.

You can try and **** coat it all you want, but how many other teams in the league only had two losing seasons during that stretch? So, would you rather be the Raiders that one a conference championship, but then went on to win a TOTAL of 24 games in the next (and last) six years?

We won 33 games in those horrible plumer years (or 40, if you count the 9 games he started in 2006).

So, before you get too carried away about how bad the Broncos last 10 years have been, you might want to do a reality check about what 'bad' really is.

baja
10-11-2009, 05:56 PM
"Attention People: Josh McDaniels is living in the shadow of Mike Shanahan..."


That ended today

TonyR
10-11-2009, 05:59 PM
lololololololol at the haters!!! Funny how many of them are nowhere to be found. They'll come slinking back, one by one, and pretend they were on board all along.

lex
10-11-2009, 05:59 PM
"Attention People: Josh McDaniels is living in the shadow of Mike Shanahan..."


That ended today

Not exactly. He still is but at least the negativity has been abated.

baja
10-11-2009, 06:02 PM
lololololololol at the haters!!! Funny how many of them are nowhere to be found. They'll come slinking back, one by one, and pretend they were on board all along.

TJ gave Josh his due in the chat room today so this is not a dig on TJ

Meck77
10-11-2009, 06:03 PM
The Broncos fanbase is undergoing trauma due to the divorce between Bowlen and Shanahan and all the subsequent fallout that occured from that event.

Speak for yourself.

The trend of terrible takes continues.... "This organization is set back 10 years!".

Taco John
10-11-2009, 06:04 PM
Nothing I said in this thread was false. Josh has cast off the shadow pretty quickly, though. Much quicker than anybody could have guessed.

I agree with the sentiment that it ended today. I think the valid criticism of that is that Shanahan could have had this team at 5-0. It's a guess at best. But the point is, Josh has this team at 5-0, after putting his stamp on it, regardless of where Shanahan might have had this team.

TonyR
10-11-2009, 06:05 PM
TJ gave Josh his due in the chat room today so this is not a dig on TJ

That's cool, I'm not addressing this toward anyone in particular. TJ has come around very nicely over the last few weeks. I have no beef with him. But there's about 20 others, including a couple of mods, who deserve every dig they get!

Taco John
10-11-2009, 06:06 PM
It's like I said: winning will cure everything.

Meck77
10-11-2009, 06:07 PM
That's brilliant Taco. You called it. Nevermind the fact that you said it could take 10 years to recover from losing that loser Cutler.

lex
10-11-2009, 06:10 PM
Nothing I said in this thread was false. Josh has cast off the shadow pretty quickly, though. Much quicker than anybody could have guessed.

I agree with the sentiment that it ended today. I think the valid criticism of that is that Shanahan could have had this team at 5-0. It's a guess at best. But the point is, Josh has this team at 5-0, after putting his stamp on it, regardless of where Shanahan might have had this team.


He is still in Shanahan's shadow. Shanahan won two SBs in his first four years. That isnt forgotten. But what Josh has done has made it much easier to accept him. He has talked a lot of people off the ledge. Its less an issue of having allegiance to one or the other now. Its easier for people to be more accepting of both.

cutthemdown
10-11-2009, 06:12 PM
Josh is going to win a Superbowl in Denver. Does anyone really doubt that?

Drek
10-11-2009, 06:17 PM
Nothing I said in this thread was false. Josh has cast off the shadow pretty quickly, though. Much quicker than anybody could have guessed.

I agree with the sentiment that it ended today. I think the valid criticism of that is that Shanahan could have had this team at 5-0. It's a guess at best. But the point is, Josh has this team at 5-0, after putting his stamp on it, regardless of where Shanahan might have had this team.

No way in hell Shanahan has this team at 5-0 this season. He'd gotten complacent and he did nothing to fix the D year after year.

We've spent the last two and a half years being a defensive unit that teams like the Cowboys or Pats get right against, throw up 41, and go on big win streaks.

McDaniels burned down McDaniels team (turning over nearly 50% of the roster including the face of the franchise, though that under Bowlen's orders) and he's got the whole team playing hard football that no one is comfortable facing any aspect of.

No one treats any unit on this team like a layup anymore. Shanahan failed to do that with the special teams for the better part of a decade and the defense for the better part of three seasons.

I love what Shanahan did for this organization in the 90's, but he got incredibly complacent over the last ten years. He needed to be shown the door.

Taco John
10-11-2009, 06:18 PM
That's brilliant Taco. You called it. Nevermind the fact that you said it could take 10 years to recover from losing that loser Cutler.


I don't recall saying that. But it definitely could have.

Not that that has anything to do with the sentiment of this thread. I started this thread because people were asking me to ban other broncos fans because they disagreed with them. My message here was suck it up, I can't ban people just because you disagree with their perspective of the direction of the team.

baja
10-11-2009, 06:20 PM
That's brilliant Taco. You called it. Nevermind the fact that you said it could take 10 years to recover from losing that loser Cutler.

I don't have the heart to bump the gutless drunk thread. ;D

rastaman
10-11-2009, 08:49 PM
This thread is valuable. I'd have never known that McDaniels is living in Shanahan's shadow. I wasn't even aware Denver had coaches prior to McDaniels. Who is this Shanahan guy by the way?

Why Shanny is the guy who drafted the WR's that Orton is having so much success with! I thought you knew that. Hell that OL drafted by Shanny over the last couple of years is largely responsible for Orton heading to the Pro Bowl this season.

Now do you know who Shanahan is? I'm sure McDaniel's know who Shanahan is.....and is privately calling Mike thanking him for leaving all that fire power and talent to work with on the offensive side of the ball.:sunshine:

Sorry,.......couldn't resist.LOL

Meck77
10-11-2009, 08:54 PM
My message here was suck it up, I can't ban people just because you disagree with their perspective of the direction of the team.

I'll give you that Taco. You are a firm believer in freedom of speech. Besides if you started banning people for terrible takes you'd have to ban yourself. ;)

Paladin
10-11-2009, 08:56 PM
But he couldn't win against Carolina, Buffalo and SD with all that fire power. Epic Fail for Shanahan. Try again.

It was time for him to leave......

Popps
10-11-2009, 08:57 PM
It's like I said: winning will cure everything.

What?

Who said anything needed to be cured?

Sounds like a personal problem. Most of us were thrilled about this upcoming season. No "cure" needed.

Winning is just winning, and fans should be fans, win or lose.

"Cure?"

Please.

RhymesayersDU
10-11-2009, 08:58 PM
This thread rules.

People landing haymakers everywhere.

Popps
10-11-2009, 08:59 PM
That's brilliant Taco. You called it. Nevermind the fact that you said it could take 10 years to recover from losing that loser Cutler.

Well, that was goofy... but far from Taco's best work.

He also tried to tell me we hadn't addressed the D-line, despite us starting 4 (essential) new starters, drafting a pass rusher hybrid in the first and revamping the entire front 7.

But, as bad as his takes were... where were are the ****ing idiots that said we'd be set back 15 and (literally) 50 years? Think these dip****s will show their faces again?

(crickets)

Lev Vyvanse
10-11-2009, 09:03 PM
Well, that was goofy... but far from Taco's best work.

He also tried to tell me we hadn't addressed the D-line, despite us starting 4 (essential) new starters, drafting a pass rusher hybrid in the first and revamping the entire front 7.

But, as bad as his takes were... where were are the ****ing idiots that said we'd be set back 15 and (literally) 50 years? Think these dip****s will show their faces again?

(crickets)

What was your prediction of our record?
(crickets)

baja
10-11-2009, 09:08 PM
What was your prediction of our record?
(crickets)

What was yours?

Lev Vyvanse
10-11-2009, 09:15 PM
What was yours?
7-9 http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2534675&postcount=17
I was wrong.
I think it's funny popps gets to predict a bad record and talk **** now.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-11-2009, 09:21 PM
...and I can't change that fact. There is not a single rule that I could make to regulate this fact out of existence. If you don't like this fact is going to taint the discussion, a message board might not be your thing. This is going to be a major theme on any Broncos discussion board. It's just the situation as it is.

And the only one reminding us of this... is the guy that swore up and down that Shanahan wouldn't be fired.

Coincidence, I'm sure.

Rock Chalk
10-11-2009, 09:22 PM
My prediction was 19-0 bitches.

Im still on pace for mine :)

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-11-2009, 09:23 PM
Why Shanny is the guy who drafted the WR's that Orton is having so much success with! I thought you knew that. Hell that OL drafted by Shanny over the last couple of years is largely responsible for Orton heading to the Pro Bowl this season.

Now do you know who Shanahan is? I'm sure McDaniel's know who Shanahan is.....and is privately calling Mike thanking him for leaving all that fire power and talent to work with on the offensive side of the ball.:sunshine:

Sorry,.......couldn't resist.LOL

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/L2L9IKVe9LA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/L2L9IKVe9LA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

HEAV
10-11-2009, 09:24 PM
I'll give you that Taco. You are a firm believer in freedom of speech. Besides if you started banning people for terrible takes you'd have to ban yourself. ;)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_e92n-YZL3Vs/SKA035AQFII/AAAAAAAAAH8/_De2FcLuVuI/s320/oh-snap.jpg

cutthemdown
10-11-2009, 09:24 PM
I predicted 8-8 9-7. I had no idea this coach could get team playing this well. I was on board with the new coach, i liked the hire, I was optimistic he would get us winning again, but I had no idea it would be this quick.

It's good to be orange.

gunns
10-11-2009, 09:26 PM
lololololololol at the haters!!! Funny how many of them are nowhere to be found. They'll come slinking back, one by one, and pretend they were on board all along.

OMG! Why don't you stop? Yeah your the greatest, the bestest, you knew we'd be 5-0, yeah you got big balls. Do everyone a favor, pound your chest, just shut your mouth it's become so old.

gunns
10-11-2009, 09:28 PM
I predicted 8-8 9-7. I had no idea this coach could get team playing this well. I was on board with the new coach, i liked the hire, I was optimistic he would get us winning again, but I had no idea it would be this quick.

It's good to be orange.

No one thought we'd be 5-0 at this point, no one. If they say they did they are lying.

It's always been good to be orange, just feels really good this year.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-11-2009, 09:55 PM
OMG! Why don't you stop? Yeah your the greatest, the bestest, you knew we'd be 5-0, yeah you got big balls. Do everyone a favor, pound your chest, just shut your mouth it's become so old.

Don't get all angry.

There were some who said we might be better than 3-13, and they were roundly chastised for it. Can you really blame those folks?

Kool Aid drinker. Ball-washer. Idiot. Know-nothing. I've been called several of these because I believed the Broncos COULD actually be good... And you expect folks like this not to crow?

Here's a thought: if you're not willing to take the gloating, DON'T DO THE BULL**** NAME CALLING.

BTW, I love the "we wouldn't have done this to YOU" act that folks are doing around here that predicted the worst. It's quite a lot of bull****, but very enjoyable.

GreatBronco16
10-11-2009, 10:02 PM
7-9 http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2534675&postcount=17
I was wrong.
I think it's funny popps gets to predict a bad record and talk **** now.

Most of us figured the record wouldn't be good because of having an entire system relearning curve. What we wanted to see was improvement from week to week, win or lose. What we did was stick behind the team instead of dogging out the new coaches and players before a single down of football had been played.

azbroncfan
10-11-2009, 10:03 PM
This early success sure puts the dampers on the Taco John, Watermock, Blueflames, SoCal and the rest of the MCD hater's plan for the season. They are just miserable watching the success this guy is having. At least Mock has the Farve's to root for.

Popps
10-11-2009, 10:04 PM
What was your prediction of our record?
(crickets)

My prediction? 7-9, but a couple better or worse wouldn't have shocked me.

Look it up.

I also said repeatedly that this season wasn't so much about record as it was about seeing steady improvement as the season goes on... and not fading as we have over the past decade, for the most part.

So, I'm thrilled about the fast start, but I'm more concerned that we continue to gel and play competitively every week.


I certainly didn't drop any dumb bull**** about us being set back 15 years nor that we were Superbowl bound.

Popps
10-11-2009, 10:05 PM
This early success sure puts the dampers on the Taco John, Watermock, SoCal and the rest of the MCD hater's plan for the season. They are just miserable watching the success this guy is having. At least Mock has the Farve's to root for.

:spit:

Not to mention Blueflame. You can't pay her to post these days. You know, us being the cheating Broncos, or the Cheatriots West, or whatever dog**** name she called us.

GreatBronco16
10-11-2009, 10:16 PM
:spit:

Not to mention Blueflame. You can't pay her to post these days. You know, us being the cheating Broncos, or the Cheatriots West, or whatever dog**** name she called us.

Now Popps, these people all of a sudden have lives and are busy doing other things these days. They don't have the time anymore to post here after a win. Wait for a losing streak to hit.

gunns
10-11-2009, 10:25 PM
Don't get all angry.

There were some who said we might be better than 3-13, and they were roundly chastised for it. Can you really blame those folks?

Kool Aid drinker. Ball-washer. Idiot. Know-nothing. I've been called several of these because I believed the Broncos COULD actually be good... And you expect folks like this not to crow?

Here's a thought: if you're not willing to take the gloating, DON'T DO THE BULL**** NAME CALLING.

BTW, I love the "we wouldn't have done this to YOU" act that folks are doing around here that predicted the worst. It's quite a lot of bull****, but very enjoyable.

"He did it to me first mom". Grow up, but then again I think this IS your way of feeling like a man...."I was right, you're wrong, na na na na". BTW, you were doing plenty of name calling right back. The Broncos have done their part to dissipate the negativity of this off season, but you want to continue it because, after all, it's all about you, right? Focus man, focus.

SouthStndJunkie
10-11-2009, 10:26 PM
I am glad to admit I was wrong about McDaniels.

I am impressed with his preparation and it seems as if the players are willing to run through walls for him.

These 5 wins are not a fluke....we will lose some games along the way, but I am confident that McDaniels will have them more prepared to play every week than the opposing coach will have their team.

I also like his recent enthusiasm and willingness to show his emotions. It makes him more personable and likable when he lets his guard down a little like he did after the game tonight.

Bronco Bob
10-11-2009, 10:26 PM
...and I can't change that fact. There is not a single rule that I could make to regulate this fact out of existence. If you don't like this fact is going to taint the discussion, a message board might not be your thing. This is going to be a major theme on any Broncos discussion board. It's just the situation as it is.

Mike who?

McDman
10-11-2009, 10:33 PM
I've supported McD from the beginning, but I still predicted a 7-9 record. I'll be happy as hell to be wrong and get more wins, but we gotta take it one week at a time.

Rock Chalk
10-11-2009, 10:36 PM
"He did it to me first mom". Grow up, but then again I think this IS your way of feeling like a man...."I was right, you're wrong, na na na na". BTW, you were doing plenty of name calling right back. The Broncos have done their part to dissipate the negativity of this off season, but you want to continue it because, after all, it's all about you, right? Focus man, focus.

Wow do you ever stop crying?

Popps
10-11-2009, 10:41 PM
Mike who?

The other awesome thing about this thread is the "attention people," call to action. It's the same condescending approach he took when he chastised his user-base for questioning Shanahan's job the day before he was fired.

:rofl:


By the way, Taco... I can't find that thread. You delete that one along with Gutless, buddy?

You're not going back and deleting all of your gems, are you?

Imagine the irony of deleting a thread accusing someone else of being gutless...

Popps
10-11-2009, 10:42 PM
Now Popps, these people all of a sudden have lives and are busy doing other things these days. They don't have the time anymore to post here after a win. Wait for a losing streak to hit.

Hilarious!

Yea, wait for a few losses. They'll suddenly be hit with a wealth of free time.

Lev Vyvanse
10-11-2009, 10:44 PM
My prediction? 7-9, but a couple better or worse wouldn't have shocked me.

Look it up.

I also said repeatedly that this season wasn't so much about record as it was about seeing steady improvement as the season goes on... and not fading as we have over the past decade, for the most part.

So, I'm thrilled about the fast start, but I'm more concerned that we continue to gel and play competitively every week.


I certainly didn't drop any dumb bull**** about us being set back 15 years nor that we were Superbowl bound.

So you underestimated the broncos like everyone else. Thatís good to hear.

Popps
10-11-2009, 10:46 PM
So you underestimated the broncos like everyone else. Thatís good to hear.

Oh, the season's over? Wow. What do we win?

So, there's no chance we could go 9-7 at this point? Think that's impossible?

The point here is that I said we needed to give the team a chance. I'm guessing you were one of the ship-jumping type. You seem awfully sensitive about this topic.

:rofl:

Hey, PM Taco and ask him why he's selectively deleting his threads?

Rock Chalk
10-11-2009, 10:49 PM
No one thought we'd be 5-0 at this point, no one. If they say they did they are lying.

It's always been good to be orange, just feels really good this year.

Want to bet money on that Gunns? Please.

Rock Chalk
10-11-2009, 10:51 PM
So you underestimated the broncos like everyone else. Thatís good to hear.

Again with this group ****.

I believed. So you and your stupid ass friends need to stop saying **** like "no one" and "everyone".

Just because you were a bunch of faithless whores doesn't mean everyone was.

Popps
10-11-2009, 10:53 PM
Again with this group ****.

I believed. So you and your stupid ass friends need to stop saying **** like "no one" and "everyone".

Just because you were a bunch of faithless whores doesn't mean everyone was.

This sentiment deserves its own thread. It really does.

Lev Vyvanse
10-11-2009, 10:54 PM
Oh, the season's over? Wow. What do we win?

So, there's no chance we could go 9-7 at this point? Think that's impossible?

The point here is that I said we needed to give the team a chance. I'm guessing you were one of the ship-jumping type. You seem awfully sensitive about this topic.

:rofl:

Hey, PM Taco and ask him why he's selectively deleting his threads?

I just showed a link preseason that said 7-9. Don't really know where you are going with this post. You said your prediction was 7-9 then state "there's no chance we could go 9-7 at this point?" 4-7 from here on out? Is that what you are predicting or are you just trying to cover your ass?

Lev Vyvanse
10-11-2009, 10:57 PM
Again with this group ****.

I believed. So you and your stupid ass friends need to stop saying **** like "no one" and "everyone".

Just because you were a bunch of faithless whores doesn't mean everyone was.
I sould have put an "almost" in there. You are a rock.

Popps
10-11-2009, 11:02 PM
I just showed a link preseason that said 7-9. Don't really know where you are going with this post. You said your prediction was 7-9 then state "there's no chance we could go 9-7 at this point?" 4-7 from here on out? Is that what you are predicting or are you just trying to cover your ass?

Cover my ass?

Again, I said in the off-season I figured around 7-9 but a couple games better or worse wouldn't surprise me. So, the fact that we've started strong is fantastic, and yes... it's exceeded almost everyone's expectations.

However, that's a far cry from dumb-****s like yourself who predicted we'd be **** for 10 years. I'm assuming you were one of those idiots, or you wouldn't be in here being so sensitive about it.

Taco John
10-11-2009, 11:08 PM
Hmmm.... I said 9-7, and said we'd battle for AFC West championship.

Taco John
10-11-2009, 11:08 PM
Hey, PM Taco and ask him why he's selectively deleting his threads?

That's a lie. I haven't deleted any threads.

Meck77
10-11-2009, 11:09 PM
Again with this group ****.

I believed. So you and your stupid ass friends need to stop saying **** like "no one" and "everyone".

Just because you were a bunch of faithless whores doesn't mean everyone was.

Ha!

Attention People: Faithless whores < Gutless Drunks

Lev Vyvanse
10-11-2009, 11:11 PM
Cover my ass?

Again, I said in the off-season I figured around 7-9 but a couple games better or worse wouldn't surprise me. So, the fact that we've started strong is fantastic, and yes... it's exceeded almost everyone's expectations.

However, that's a far cry from dumb-****s like yourself who predicted we'd be **** for 10 years. I'm assuming you were one of those idiots, or you wouldn't be in here being so sensitive about it.
Never said anything even close to that. I said 7-9 and "I have no idea what is going to happen" what I didn't do is predict a losing record and then gloat when we started winning.

lex
10-11-2009, 11:15 PM
Again with this group ****.

I believed. So you and your stupid ass friends need to stop saying **** like "no one" and "everyone".

Just because you were a bunch of faithless whores doesn't mean everyone was.


Poops said a lot of things. His predictions are instruments of spin. He said a lot of things that covered a lot of scenarios because he thinks his spin matters and that he needs to cover every scenario. He also talked about the team going 4-12 and that he'd be cool with it. I think its safe to say that if the team were to start out looking like 4-12 most would not have been cool with it.

To him its more important to get out in front of stuff and frame it the right way as if it matters. And as a result he talks out of both sides of his mouth a lot.

For people not to practice blind acceptance and to make McDaniels prove something is poison to his soul.

Popps
10-11-2009, 11:15 PM
Never said anything even close to that. I said 7-9 and "I have no idea what is going to happen" what I didn't do is predict a losing record and then gloat when we started winning.

No one cares.

Popps
10-11-2009, 11:15 PM
Ha!

Attention People: Faithless whores < Gutless Drunks

Ha!

lazarus4444
10-11-2009, 11:20 PM
Hey guys and gals it no longer matters, there is plenty of room on this band wagon. I for one am happy to have most of the doubters on board, welcome! I know that 98% of you are happy to be here, we have kegs in the fridge and the grilling is out back!

Laz

p.s. I said a few weeks ago it'd be hard to forgive the doubters but the broncos are playing so well i don't care anymore so welcome to the bandwagon, it's starting to get crowded but we got enough beer for everyone!

Lev Vyvanse
10-11-2009, 11:32 PM
No one cares.

That you talk out of both sides of your mouth?

Popps
10-11-2009, 11:38 PM
That you talk out of both sides of your mouth?

Sure kid. Whatever you need to tell yourself.

gunns
10-12-2009, 05:59 AM
Want to bet money on that Gunns? Please.

Oh hell no. We know you did. You're the man! :thumbsup:

I'm sure you posted in...what....July?

HAT
10-12-2009, 06:14 AM
I can't ban people just because you disagree with their perspective of the direction of the team.

Why not? SoCal did. :welcome:

baja
10-12-2009, 06:39 AM
"He did it to me first mom". Grow up, but then again I think this IS your way of feeling like a man...."I was right, you're wrong, na na na na". BTW, you were doing plenty of name calling right back. The Broncos have done their part to dissipate the negativity of this off season, but you want to continue it because, after all, it's all about you, right? Focus man, focus.

After all the insults the "nut huggers" (love that depiction) received for simply being positive and suggesting taking a wait and see attitude what you are seeing is a little pay back. It is a natural human reaction especially for a group of football fans that by nature attach their "feel good" to events out of their control. Relax everyone this rift is soon to die a natural death. In the mean time it has been interesting.

Go Broncos!

BTW Gunns was a far better name. ;D

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-12-2009, 06:42 AM
"He did it to me first mom". Grow up, but then again I think this IS your way of feeling like a man...."I was right, you're wrong, na na na na". BTW, you were doing plenty of name calling right back. The Broncos have done their part to dissipate the negativity of this off season, but you want to continue it because, after all, it's all about you, right? Focus man, focus.

YAWN.

Shirk all responsibility. Love it.

lex
10-12-2009, 06:43 AM
After all the insults the "nut huggers" (love that depiction) received for simply being positive and suggesting taking a wait and see attitude what you are seeing is a little pay back. It is a natural human reaction especially for a group of football fans that by nature attach their "feel good" to events out of their control. Relax everyone this rift is soon to die a natural death. In the mean time it has been interesting.

Go Broncos!

BTW Gunns was a far better name. ;D

Thats not really what it was. "Wait and see" is really a euphemism for blind acceptance here.

Circle Orange
10-12-2009, 06:46 AM
When the window of opportunity closes, get a brick and bust it open.

When a shadow looms, hit the sucker with strobe lights.

We wander NOT in the land of fear and cliches, but move forward, always onward in the land of orange. As it is, thus it is so. :~ohyah!:

Geeks, dweebs, and crackpots can return to their bomb shelters. That is all. ;D

lex
10-12-2009, 06:49 AM
When the window of opportunity closes, get a brick and bust it open.

When a shadow looms, hit the sucker with strobe lights.

We wander NOT in the land of fear and cliches, but move forward, always onward in the land of orange. As it is, thus it is so. :~ohyah!:

Geeks, dweebs, and crackpots can return to their bomb shelters. That is all. ;D


?

baja
10-12-2009, 06:50 AM
Oh, the season's over? Wow. What do we win?

So, there's no chance we could go 9-7 at this point? Think that's impossible?

The point here is that I said we needed to give the team a chance. I'm guessing you were one of the ship-jumping type. You seem awfully sensitive about this topic.

:rofl:

<b>Hey, PM Taco and ask him why he's selectively deleting his threads?


I really really hope he did not do that. That would be very disappointing and chicken shiit to the extreme.

Edit; (Did a search)

Hey Popps why would you say a thing like that - the gutless thread is still there. i didn't think TJ would be that chicken shiit. I think you owe him an apology for the false accusation . ;D

fontaine
10-12-2009, 06:51 AM
Cover my ass?

Again, I said in the off-season I figured around 7-9 but a couple games better or worse wouldn't surprise me. So, the fact that we've started strong is fantastic, and yes... it's exceeded almost everyone's expectations.

However, that's a far cry from dumb-****s like yourself who predicted we'd be **** for 10 years. I'm assuming you were one of those idiots, or you wouldn't be in here being so sensitive about it.

Wow are you still crying about this?

So some fans didn't like the offseason moves and b*tched about it. I don't hear them complaining now.

The only one still moaning and whining is you. I don't know what's more pathetic. Jay whining like a spoilt baby this offseason or your constant whining about who said what on some message board months ago.

Take your own advice as you've given it so often. Get over it you widow-b*tch.

:giggle:

baja
10-12-2009, 06:52 AM
Want to bet money on that Gunns? Please.

Ya I have been calling 6 and 0 for several weeks now so there's one anyway.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-12-2009, 06:56 AM
Thats not really what it was. "Wait and see" is really a euphemism for blind acceptance here.

Just when I thought it was safe to take lex off ignore... He comes up with this absolute gem.

/yawn

Wait and see can in fact mean "wait and see." I know it's hard for you to accept since you think everything has a double meaning, but... in this case, it just means what it means.

Letting a guy see the field before you call for his head is sometimes smart. In this case, it definitely turned out to be so.

Cito Pelon
10-12-2009, 07:00 AM
OMG! Why don't you stop? Yeah your the greatest, the bestest, you knew we'd be 5-0, yeah you got big balls. Do everyone a favor, pound your chest, just shut your mouth it's become so old.

Why'd you change your handle? Do you realize how hard it is to keep track of all the posters with some derivative of Elway or Broncos or No. 7, etc?

As for the chest-punding, it was getting very disgusting to see so many posters bagging on the team before TC even started. So those who tried to stay calm and rational are rubbing it in some after being ridiculed as stoopid from January thru August.

BroncoInSkinland
10-12-2009, 07:07 AM
And you expect folks like this not to crow?

Here's a thought: if you're not willing to take the gloating, DON'T DO THE BULL**** NAME CALLING.

I don't think I did any name calling, maybe one or two instances here or there. I did however think the organization as a whole had taken a step back. I was wrong, and I said all along that I hoped I was wrong. Now that it is here, I will take the gloating and crowing with a smile on my face. Give me your best shot, watching the Broncos win will take away the sting.

lex
10-12-2009, 07:11 AM
Just when I thought it was safe to take lex off ignore... He comes up with this absolute gem.

/yawn

Wait and see can in fact mean "wait and see." I know it's hard for you to accept since you think everything has a double meaning, but... in this case, it just means what it means.

Letting a guy see the field before you call for his head is sometimes smart. In this case, it definitely turned out to be so.


If you really had me on ignore, how is it youre replying to my post, DenverSheepGuy?

baja
10-12-2009, 07:14 AM
I don't think I did any name calling, maybe one or two instances here or there. I did however think the organization as a whole had taken a step back. I was wrong, and I said all along that I hoped I was wrong. Now that it is here, I will take the gloating and crowing with a smile on my face. Give me your best shot, watching the Broncos win will take away the sting.

Im glad you were wrong you could have been right, nobody really knew but you did not call a fellow fan stupid for for having faith in Bowlen so you have no atonement to make.

Lets see more GO BRONCOS

rastaman
10-12-2009, 07:21 AM
But he couldn't win against Carolina, Buffalo and SD with all that fire power. Epic Fail for Shanahan. Try again.

It was time for him to leave......

The fact remains McD didnt' bring over any WR's or OL from NE nor did he find equal replacements for the WR's and OL left to him by Shanny!:~ohyah!:

Shanny left McD the infrastructure to be 5-0 at this stage! McD did not have to start from scratch!!!!:angel:

Rohirrim
10-12-2009, 07:22 AM
The only people I want to see grovel are the ones who wanted us to bring in Brady Quinn. ;D

And I agree. Gunns is a much better moniker.

TheDave
10-12-2009, 07:24 AM
The fact remains McD didnt' bring over any WR's or OL from NE nor did he find equal replacements for the WR's and OL left to him by Shanny!:~ohyah!:

Shanny left McD the infrastructure to be 5-0 at this stage! McD did not have to start from scratch!!!!:angel:

Gaffney and Hockstein ???

BroncoInSkinland
10-12-2009, 07:25 AM
The only people I want to see grovel are the ones who wanted us to bring in Brady Quinn. ;D

And I agree. Gunns is a much better moniker.

Guilty as charged. Once it became clear Cutler was going away, I wanted it to be to Cle, and would have preffered Quinn over Anderson. Really I wanted the trade to get Rodgers for the DL, but it looks like Nolan had a better plan on that side of the ball. Online grovelling doesn't really work that well though, you'll have to settle for me buying you a beer if we ever run into one another at a game.

BroncoInferno
10-12-2009, 07:58 AM
Nothing I said in this thread was false. Josh has cast off the shadow pretty quickly, though. Much quicker than anybody could have guessed.

I agree with the sentiment that it ended today. I think the valid criticism of that is that Shanahan could have had this team at 5-0. It's a guess at best. But the point is, Josh has this team at 5-0, after putting his stamp on it, regardless of where Shanahan might have had this team.

Shanahan could have had us at 5-0, too? Are you kidding, Taco? He was planning to bring back Slowik. There is almost no chance that we would be 5-0 with Shanny carrying that albatross around. None. Our D would still be in the bottom third of the league.

dbfan21
10-12-2009, 08:09 AM
Shanahan could have had us at 5-0, too? Are you kidding, Taco? He was planning to bring back Slowik. There is almost no chance that we would be 5-0 with Shanny carrying that albatross around. None. Our D would still be in the bottom third of the league.

+1. I was thinking the same thing last night. If Shanny is still the coach, there's no way we're 5-0. I love the guy for what he did with this franchise, but let's be real here...Shanny + Slowick = Fail.

TonyR
10-12-2009, 08:26 AM
Colin Cowherd had a McD lovefest on ESPN Radio this morning. He was giving McD huge props for the job he's done turning the team around. The difference coaching makes in football was the focus of his show this morning. He was talking about how McD and, at the college level, Urban Meyer took over programs and completely turned them into winners and how coaching was really more important than the players. He had Trent Dilfer on later and Dilfer basically agreed, saying he was on teams with both good and bad coaches and what a huge diff it made. They also talked about how many bad coaches there are in the league because of the old boys network. Cowherd called McD the best young coach in the NFL and he declared that after watching both Denver and Pittsburgh yesterday and previously this season that Denver is the better team, and how ridiculous that would have sounded a month ago.

Thanks Mr. Bowlen! Thanks Josh McDaniels! Thanks Mike Nolan! GO BRONCOS!!!

baja
10-12-2009, 08:55 AM
Nothing I said in this thread was false. Josh has cast off the shadow pretty quickly, though. Much quicker than anybody could have guessed.

I agree with the sentiment that it ended today. I think the valid criticism of that is that Shanahan could have had this team at 5-0. It's a guess at best. But the point is, Josh has this team at 5-0, after putting his stamp on it, regardless of where Shanahan might have had this team.

The reason I bumped this thread was to point out that on Sunday Josh McD claimed the Broncos for his very own with the blessing of 100% of the fan base.

Re; your rep comment,

It's not always about you Taco John!

baja
10-12-2009, 08:56 AM
TJ gave Josh his due in the chat room today so this is not a dig on TJ

point

baja
10-12-2009, 08:58 AM
+1. I was thinking the same thing last night. If Shanny is still the coach, there's no way we're 5-0. I love the guy for what he did with this franchise, but let's be real here...Shanny + Slowick = Fail.

It's time to realize that Slowick was not the only problem with Shanahan. He had lost this team in 06 when he benched Jake.

gunns
10-12-2009, 09:05 AM
It's time to realize that Slowick was not the only problem with Shanahan. He had lost this team in 06 when he benched Jake.

Part of his problem was his complacency towards the defense for the past 10 years. Just stuff someone in there and it will work. No. And I don't agree on
that he lost it when he benched Plummer. By that time we the games we won were in spite of Plummer.

McD, COY!

chex
10-12-2009, 09:12 AM
I never considered Josh to be in Shanahanís shadow. To be that, you have to be replacing a coach that has been at the top of his game when he leaves. Usually new coaches are in their predecessorís shadow when those guys step down voluntarily. Itís not like weíve been an elite team this entire decade winning Super Bowls and Shanahan decided to step down leaving us in a lurch. In fact, Shanahan has a 51-50 record in games not started by Jake Plummer post-Elway.

Shanahan helped push Elway over the hump, but he never, ever built a team that was elite year in and year out. One playoff win in 10 years confirms this. It was his time, and new, energetic blood was needed to be infused to revive this franchise. Watching that game yesterday, you couldíve put Patriot uniís on our guys and no one wouldíve known the difference with the way the team played on both sides of the ball, and thatís a good thing.

Shanahan helped author two Super Bowl wins for which we all will be forever grateful, but that doesnít make him a great coach 10 years and one playoff win later.

DarkHorse30
10-12-2009, 09:19 AM
The only people I want to see grovel are the ones who wanted us to bring in Brady Quinn. ;D

And I agree. Gunns is a much better moniker.

I think SoCal should grovel. "Glen Frey>McDaniels"? I'm not sure how you could miss it by that much and not feel shame.

baja
10-12-2009, 10:04 AM
I think SoCal should grovel. "Glen Frey>McDaniels"? I'm not sure how you could miss it by that much and not feel shame.

So Cal needs to show up!

This absence is starting to not look so good on him.

Rohirrim
10-12-2009, 10:10 AM
So Cal needs to show up!

This absence is starting to not look so good on him.

Yeah. Wuzzupwidat? Let bygones be bygones. We're winning. Times are good. Let the Broncos family come together and celebrate.

Well, except for lex. ;D

Popps
10-12-2009, 10:13 AM
The fact remains McD didnt' bring over any WR's or OL from NE nor did he find equal replacements for the WR's and OL left to him by Shanny!:~ohyah!:

Wow.

Popps
10-12-2009, 10:13 AM
So Cal needs to show up!

This absence is starting to not look so good on him.

He and Blueflame suddenly became "busy," I'm sure.

400 posts a day bashing the team until we started winning. Then, a bunch of stuff came up for them.

They're busy. That's all.

Circle Orange
10-12-2009, 10:52 AM
The only people I want to see grovel are the ones who wanted us to bring in Brady Quinn. ;D

And I agree. Gunns is a much better moniker.

But...he would've looked so GOOD in those stripedy socks!! ;D

baja
10-12-2009, 10:55 AM
Yeah. Wuzzupwidat? Let bygones be bygones. We're winning. Times are good. Let the Broncos family come together and celebrate.

Well, except for lex. ;D

I have long time ago. My post was not about the past it's about the "now", just sayin he should make an appearance, looks bad on him that he doesn't

BroncoInSkinland
10-12-2009, 11:49 AM
I have long time ago. My post was not about the past it's about the "now", just sayin he should make an appearance, looks bad on him that he doesn't

This place got a little crazy, give him time, he will be back. It's like smoking, you never really quit, it's an addiction.

baja
10-12-2009, 12:19 PM
This place got a little crazy, give him time, he will be back. It's like smoking, you never really quit, it's an addiction.

Well whatever works for him is good with me I know he is a fan and I'd like to think a friend. It just feels like it would be a good time to show up.

Ditto for Blue too.

Whatever anyone else thinks these two posters are among the most enjoyable reads on this board for me and that has been true for many years. We all react passionately in one way or another all our lives so who is to judge anyone else really. - hey our Broncos are 5 and 0 who'd thunk it???

rastaman
10-12-2009, 01:21 PM
Gaffney and Hockstein ???

And Gaffney and Hostein have won how many games. Key point, the last two weeks if all we had at the receiving corp was Gaffney and Hostein....we dont' beat Dallas and we don't beat NE. W/o that WR drafted in the 4th round back 06 by Shanny known as Brandon Marshall....the Broncos--McD and Orton are 3-2 instead of 5-0!

TailgateNut
10-12-2009, 01:35 PM
And Gaffney and Hostein have won how many games. Key point, the last two weeks if all we had at the receiving corp was Gaffney and Hostein....we dont' beat Dallas and we don't beat NE. W/o that WR drafted in the 4th round back 06 by Shanny known as Brandon Marshall....the Broncos--McD and Orton are 3-2 instead of 5-0!


Twist, turn, backpeddle,make excuses......blah,blah,blah....:spit:

rastaman
10-12-2009, 02:10 PM
Twist, turn, backpeddle,make excuses......blah,blah,blah....:spit:

Reality sucks......living in denial ignores the reality!:peace:

skpac1001
10-12-2009, 03:15 PM
The fact remains McD didnt' bring over any WR's or OL from NE nor did he find equal replacements for the WR's and OL left to him by Shanny!:~ohyah!:

Shanny left McD the infrastructure to be 5-0 at this stage! McD did not have to start from scratch!!!!:angel:

I haven't heard the Shanny as GM guru angle too much. Shanny left the infrastructure to be 0-5 too, but McD flushed the turds and turned the rest into a tough, winning team.

rastaman
10-12-2009, 03:24 PM
I haven't heard the Shanny as GM guru angle too much. Shanny left the infrastructure to be 0-5 too, but McD flushed the turds and turned the rest into a tough, winning team.

You still can't deny that 3 of the Broncos win's out of 5 was due to the WR's either drafted or signed off FA. Spin it all you want....but when the wheel stops spinning.....those are Shanny's players that are largely responsible for the Broncos 5-0 record.:wave:

rbackfactory80
10-12-2009, 03:28 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3596/3516959814_a719321fe1.jpg

Popps
10-12-2009, 03:29 PM
You still can't deny that 3 of the Broncos win's out of 5 was due to the WR's either drafted or signed off FA. Spin it all you want....but when the wheel stops spinning.....those are Shanny's players that are largely responsible for the Broncos 5-0 record.:wave:

I warned people these exact posts were coming during the off-season.

Of course, the idiocy of posts like this doesn't take any explaining to those who follow the team at all.

Of course, Rasta couldn't even name our starters... so posts this skull-numbingly stupid shouldn't surprise anyone.

Killericon
10-12-2009, 03:30 PM
you still can't deny that 3 of the broncos win's out of 5 was due to the wr's either drafted or signed off fa. Spin it all you want....but when the wheel stops spinning.....those are shanny's players that are largely responsible for the broncos 5-0 record.:wave:

ATTENTION PEOPLE:
JOSH MCDANIELS IS NOT THE GENERAL MANAGER OF THE DENVER BRONCOS
Thank you.

outdoor_miner
10-12-2009, 03:32 PM
You still can't deny that 3 of the Broncos win's out of 5 was due to the WR's either drafted or signed off FA. Spin it all you want....but when the wheel stops spinning.....those are Shanny's players that are largely responsible for the Broncos 5-0 record.:wave:

This is so ridiculous. Every team has talented players. Shanahan left a few, but so did coaches for other teams. The offense was talented, but the defense and special teams were ATROCIOUS under Shanahan.

Not only that - McD got rid of Shanahan's "centerpiece"... The guy who Shanahan was building the entire franchise around... And McDaniels is still winning.

I liked Mike Shanahan, but to act like McDaniels has done nothing (and should only get credit when he wins with players that Shanahan never spoke to) is absurd. Shanahan was 8-8 last year, dude.

BroncoInferno
10-12-2009, 03:37 PM
You still can't deny that 3 of the Broncos win's out of 5 was due to the WR's either drafted or signed off FA. Spin it all you want....but when the wheel stops spinning.....those are Shanny's players that are largely responsible for the Broncos 5-0 record.:wave:

Someone had to put the ball into those receivers hands, and that somebody was not a Shanahan holdover.

Regardless, if you want to give Shanny the GM some credit for leaving behind some good players, fine. The fact of the matter is that Shanny the coach could not win enough games with those players. So far, Josh McDaniels is getting results Shanny could not the last three seasons.

DarkHorse30
10-12-2009, 03:38 PM
Well whatever works for him is good with me I know he is a fan and I'd like to think a friend. It just feels like it would be a good time to show up.

Ditto for Blue too.

Whatever anyone else thinks these two posters are among the most enjoyable reads on this board for me and that has been true for many years. We all react passionately in one way or another all our lives so who is to judge anyone else really. - hey our Broncos are 5 and 0 who'd thunk it???

Let's call a spade a shovel. You can't put an admin on ignore.....and they won't shut up.......so you're stuck reading it. That's just the way it's set up.

Should I complain about it? Why not? Especially when those that were leaning in the wrong direction start doing a Cutler (whining) about "let's just all get along".

As I'm pontificating, America is not the place to "get along". I don't want the politicians to "get along"....I want them to fight and scratch and let the best man/woman win. If you're not up for that.....bye bye.

Circle Orange
10-12-2009, 05:47 PM
Monday Night Countdown showed a stat saying all the other times the Broncs started five and OH, it was SUPER BOWL, baby. Even including the 1977 season!

Just sayin.' !Booya!

Start saving up for those tickets now....

baja
10-12-2009, 05:56 PM
Let's call a spade a shovel. You can't put an admin on ignore.....and they won't shut up.......so you're stuck reading it. That's just the way it's set up.

Should I complain about it? Why not? Especially when those that were leaning in the wrong direction start doing a Cutler (whining) about "let's just all get along".

As I'm pontificating, America is not the place to "get along". I don't want the politicians to "get along"....I want them to fight and scratch and let the best man/woman win.<b> If you're not up for that.....bye bye.

Ah don't leave

LRtagger
10-12-2009, 06:57 PM
You still can't deny that 3 of the Broncos win's out of 5 was due to the WR's either drafted or signed off FA. Spin it all you want....but when the wheel stops spinning.....those are Shanny's players that are largely responsible for the Broncos 5-0 record.:wave:

Without the INHERITED John Elway among several other players, Mike Shanahan never wins a Super Bowl and is probably fired years ago.

It sounds to me that you are the one trying to put a spin on McDaniel's success. Those exact same players under Shanahan produced a perennial .500 record. It is amazing that after a 5-0 start and a complete defensive turnaround that anyone would still try to discredit McDaniels for the team's accomplishments.

TonyR
10-12-2009, 07:00 PM
Will Denver's fast start reflect poorly on Shanahan?
October 12, 2009 7:00 PM

Posted by ESPN.comís Bill Williamson

I still believe Mike Shanahan will be one of the most sought-after coaches once the hiring season begins in less than three months. I think Washington will make a run at Shanahan.

Still, I wonder if Shanahanís attractiveness as a coaching candidate is being affected by Denverís 5-0 start. I talked to several people around the league Monday about that possibility. Many thought Denverís resurgence after Shanahanís departure could be perceived as a negative mark on him.

Shanahan was fired after 14 seasons in Denver, where he won Super Bowls after the 1997 and í98 seasons. The Broncos went 8-8 last season and suffered the biggest division collapse in NFL history by losing a three-game lead with three games to go.

Shanahan was fired because ownership thought the team needed new blood. New coach Josh McDaniels, who was wisely chosen by owner Pat Bowlen, has filled that role wonderfully. He is an early coach of the year candidate.

The Broncos, who beat New England in overtime on Sunday, are far exceeding expectations.

The biggest difference for Denver from last season is its defense. The defense has had an instant turnaround under McDaniels and new defensive coordinator Mike Nolan.

If there was a phase of the game that got Shanahan fired in Denver it was his defense. During the three-game collapse to end last season, Denver allowed 112 points. In the first five games of this season, Denver has surrendered an NFL-low 43 points.

I could see some NFL owners wondering how Shanahanís problem area could be resolved so quickly after his departure. The Broncos had a bad defense for the last two-plus seasons of Shanahanís tenure. He had three different defensive coordinators in his final three seasons in Denver.

There is no questioning Shanahanís ability as a CEO-type leader of a franchise and his offensive knowledge, but the Denver turnaround could make some potential employers nervous.

Shanahan is a proven winner in the NFL and he will garner interest, but the 2009 Denver Broncos are playing very well without the man who was the face of the organization for more than a decade.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/5102/will-denver%e2%80%99s-fast-start-reflect-poorly-on-shanahan

Pony Boy
10-12-2009, 08:30 PM
Will Denver's fast start reflect poorly on Shanahan?
October 12, 2009 7:00 PM

Posted by ESPN.comís Bill Williamson


The biggest difference for Denver from last season is its defense. The defense has had an instant turnaround under McDaniels and new defensive coordinator Mike Nolan.

decade.[/I]

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/5102/will-denver%e2%80%99s-fast-start-reflect-poorly-on-shanahan

Good article:
I think all of us forgot how much fun it is to watch a good defense on the field. We have not been able to enjoy that part of a game for years. Last year when the offense left the field I would think "oh crap", now it's different I get excited when the defense hits the field.....Just like the old "Orange Crush" days.......

azbroncfan
10-12-2009, 08:50 PM
You still can't deny that 3 of the Broncos win's out of 5 was due to the WR's either drafted or signed off FA. Spin it all you want....but when the wheel stops spinning.....those are Shanny's players that are largely responsible for the Broncos 5-0 record.:wave:

Then you must be giving Wade Phillips a ton of respect since shanny won SB's with the majority of his players right?

Meck77
10-12-2009, 08:54 PM
Will Denver's fast start reflect poorly on Shanahan?
October 12, 2009 7:00 PM

Posted by ESPN.comís Bill Williamson

I still believe Mike Shanahan will be one of the most sought-after coaches once the hiring season begins in less than three months. I think Washington will make a run at Shanahan.

Still, I wonder if Shanahanís attractiveness as a coaching candidate is being affected by Denverís 5-0 start. I talked to several people around the league Monday about that possibility. Many thought Denverís resurgence after Shanahanís departure could be perceived as a negative mark on him.

Shanahan was fired after 14 seasons in Denver, where he won Super Bowls after the 1997 and í98 seasons. The Broncos went 8-8 last season and suffered the biggest division collapse in NFL history by losing a three-game lead with three games to go.

Shanahan was fired because ownership thought the team needed new blood. New coach Josh McDaniels, who was wisely chosen by owner Pat Bowlen, has filled that role wonderfully. He is an early coach of the year candidate.

The Broncos, who beat New England in overtime on Sunday, are far exceeding expectations.

The biggest difference for Denver from last season is its defense. The defense has had an instant turnaround under McDaniels and new defensive coordinator Mike Nolan.

If there was a phase of the game that got Shanahan fired in Denver it was his defense. During the three-game collapse to end last season, Denver allowed 112 points. In the first five games of this season, Denver has surrendered an NFL-low 43 points.

I could see some NFL owners wondering how Shanahanís problem area could be resolved so quickly after his departure. The Broncos had a bad defense for the last two-plus seasons of Shanahanís tenure. He had three different defensive coordinators in his final three seasons in Denver.

There is no questioning Shanahanís ability as a CEO-type leader of a franchise and his offensive knowledge, but the Denver turnaround could make some potential employers nervous.

Shanahan is a proven winner in the NFL and he will garner interest, but the 2009 Denver Broncos are playing very well without the man who was the face of the organization for more than a decade.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/5102/will-denver%e2%80%99s-fast-start-reflect-poorly-on-shanahan

So maybe I drove this idea home a bit too much with the Bronco Betty reference Taco.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=85072&highlight=betty

broncocalijohn
10-12-2009, 09:14 PM
The fact remains McD didnt' bring over any WR's or OL from NE nor did he find equal replacements for the WR's and OL left to him by Shanny!:~ohyah!:

Shanny left McD the infrastructure to be 5-0 at this stage! McD did not have to start from scratch!!!!:angel:

i know logic is far from your family tree, but starting from scratch is probably what Seattle and Tampa did in 1976. Of course we have left over players. Those players gave us a .500 record the last 3 years. He took the best, dumped the "best" and the turds and got guys that know his scheme and then drafted what would fit best. Keep marching to every thread that berates Mike Shanahan. Your quotes get better and better to react to. Of course I read you want McDaniels to call Mike for helping with that 5 and 0 record. You, Lex and other Mike gonad cleaners want to add an opinion as fact that Mike was either getting this team on the right track or he would be 5 and 0 also. NO WAY! I am not going back in time to "see" if this would be correct. I am looking forward and jumping on the McDaniels bandwagon for the ride of which I suspect will be a long time. You can keep crying but you will be on the sidelines for awhile. I can only imagine you are a total packrat because you cant let go of old, worn out items.

Popps
10-12-2009, 09:24 PM
Then you must be giving Wade Phillips a ton of respect since shanny won SB's with the majority of his players right?

Hilarious!

But dude, Shanahan left us the "infrastructure" to win.

You know... the worst defense in the ****ing league, ****ty position coaches and coordinators and a QB with crap for brains.

Circle Orange
10-12-2009, 10:05 PM
Will Denver's fast start reflect poorly on Shanahan?
October 12, 2009 7:00 PM

Posted by ESPN.comís Bill Williamson

I still believe Mike Shanahan will be one of the most sought-after coaches once the hiring season begins in less than three months. I think Washington will make a run at Shanahan.

Still, I wonder if Shanahanís attractiveness as a coaching candidate is being affected by Denverís 5-0 start. I talked to several people around the league Monday about that possibility. Many thought Denverís resurgence after Shanahanís departure could be perceived as a negative mark on him.

Shanahan was fired after 14 seasons in Denver, where he won Super Bowls after the 1997 and í98 seasons. The Broncos went 8-8 last season and suffered the biggest division collapse in NFL history by losing a three-game lead with three games to go.

Shanahan was fired because ownership thought the team needed new blood. New coach Josh McDaniels, who was wisely chosen by owner Pat Bowlen, has filled that role wonderfully. He is an early coach of the year candidate.

The Broncos, who beat New England in overtime on Sunday, are far exceeding expectations.

The biggest difference for Denver from last season is its defense. The defense has had an instant turnaround under McDaniels and new defensive coordinator Mike Nolan.

If there was a phase of the game that got Shanahan fired in Denver it was his defense. During the three-game collapse to end last season, Denver allowed 112 points. In the first five games of this season, Denver has surrendered an NFL-low 43 points.

I could see some NFL owners wondering how Shanahanís problem area could be resolved so quickly after his departure. The Broncos had a bad defense for the last two-plus seasons of Shanahanís tenure. He had three different defensive coordinators in his final three seasons in Denver.

There is no questioning Shanahanís ability as a CEO-type leader of a franchise and his offensive knowledge, but the Denver turnaround could make some potential employers nervous.

Shanahan is a proven winner in the NFL and he will garner interest, but the 2009 Denver Broncos are playing very well without the man who was the face of the organization for more than a decade.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/5102/will-denver%e2%80%99s-fast-start-reflect-poorly-on-shanahan

Someone tell Mr. Williamson he's a little thick and a whole lot late...Shanahan's already turned down Snyder twice. Two years in a row.

rastaman
10-13-2009, 10:28 AM
Then you must be giving Wade Phillips a ton of respect since shanny won SB's with the majority of his players right?

Don't know AZ how many of the 92-94 Wade Phillip players were still on the 96, 97, and 98 Broncos?

rastaman
10-13-2009, 10:39 AM
Hilarious!

But dude, Shanahan left us the "infrastructure" to win.

You know... the worst defense in the ****ing league, ****ty position coaches and coordinators and a QB with crap for brains.

But Dude! It was Shanny's O Line and Shanny's Wr's (not McD's) that are the reason Orton is on his way to the Pro Bowl and the Broncos have won 3 of their 5 games. The Shanny's WR's have either won games or scored to take the game into overtime. W/o those Shanny drafted or signed WR's, the Broncos are 2-3! I mean come on dude it ain't like McD's boy Gaffney has scored any TD's as a WR. McD didn't need to rebuild a team that was in shambles especially on Offense. Last I checked the Defense needs the offense to score to win games unless of course the Defense is so good they themselves can score TD's off turnovers.