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View Full Version : I really don't understand the "I miss Jay, Hate McD stuff"


prunch
08-15-2009, 10:42 AM
Cutler wanted out, it was not because of McDaniels ... that's well established.

Hate McDaniels if you must but the fact that we were forced to downgrade at QB ain't the coaches fault. Cutler and his agent engineered his way out of town using the agents pre-made Farve "get out of town" template. Yeah, it does suck and quality QBs aint dime a dozen.

I think some people are acting like lovesick, stalking, dumped boyfriends with trying to blame it on anything else.

That said, Coach needs to handle the QB position ... he is paid well to handle this and put a quality improving NFL team out on the field. I reckon Orton gets another PS game to see if previous optimism of him being capable is anyway true ... otherwise Simms gets his shot.

tsiguy96
08-15-2009, 10:47 AM
i agree, but good luck trying to point logic in the direction of the people who think that mcd made jay sit at home and not respond to teh coach/owner/players of the team. i bet mcd bought his plane ticket too?

gotta give the team more than one PS game to iron out the kinks, if game 3 comes around and they still arent playing well, then its time to worrry

Tombstone RJ
08-15-2009, 10:48 AM
What, you don't want to wallow in misery too? It's the first preseason game under a completely new offensive and defensive system and the Broncos lost by 1 point!! Don't you understand, it's panic time!!

Popps
08-15-2009, 10:58 AM
What, you don't want to wallow in misery too? It's the first preseason game under a completely new offensive and defensive system and the Broncos lost by 1 point!! Don't you understand, it's panic time!!

Run for your lives!!!

DenverBrit
08-15-2009, 11:08 AM
Run for your lives!!!

Man the lifeboats!!!

Drama queens and children first!!

Br0nc0Buster
08-15-2009, 11:14 AM
Yeah I dont blame McD for what happened with Cutler, it wasnt his call anyway

But he is the new guy, so it is just easier to blame him and say that he messed it all up since Cutler didnt demand a trade when Shanny was still around

I think Josh will be a good coach, Orton just needs to get his crap together.

KevinJames
08-15-2009, 11:19 AM
Good luck with this thread I agree but there are so many people who wished Josh McDaniels didn't exist while crying into a pillow last night after 3 INTs that orton threw like our season was over .........

failing to ignore that its just pre-season it doesn't count.

Rohirrim
08-15-2009, 11:19 AM
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WolfpackGuy
08-15-2009, 11:20 AM
McDaniels was the one who started the whole Cutler drama, wasn't he?

prunch
08-15-2009, 11:27 AM
McDaniels was the one who started the whole Cutler drama, wasn't he?

Nope, Cutler asked for a trade before McD came to town. The rest was dramatics.

Steve Prefontaine
08-15-2009, 11:34 AM
Cutler wanted out, it was not because of McDaniels ... that's well established.
When was this "well established"? You really believe that if Shanahan was still here that Cutler would not be in Denver?

Hate McDaniels if you must but the fact that we were forced to downgrade at QB ain't the coaches fault. Cutler and his agent engineered his way out of town using the agents pre-made Farve "get out of town" template. Yeah, it does suck and quality QBs aint dime a dozen.

The comparison to Farve is awful on so many levels....mainly because Farve and his agent never forced their way off any team.

I actually agree there is no use crying about Cutler being gone, but put some thought into your posts.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-15-2009, 11:36 AM
When was this "well established"? You really believe that if Shanahan was still here that Cutler would not be in Denver?


The comparison to Farve is awful on so many levels....mainly because Farve and his agent never forced their way off any team.

I actually agree there is no use crying about Cutler being gone, but put some thought into your posts.

No, but he asked to be traded once Shanny was fired. I still don't understand why some people don't blame Cutler for the way he handled this situation. He cried, bitched, and moaned until he got his way. This is what a three year old attempts to do, not a 26 year old.

bfoflcommish
08-15-2009, 11:37 AM
McDaniels was the one who started the whole Cutler drama, wasn't he?


really?????? wow

TheDave
08-15-2009, 11:38 AM
Cutler wanted out, it was not because of McDaniels ... that's well established.

Hate McDaniels if you must but the fact that we were forced to downgrade at QB ain't the coaches fault. Cutler and his agent engineered his way out of town using the agents pre-made Farve "get out of town" template. Yeah, it does suck and quality QBs aint dime a dozen.

I think some people are acting like lovesick, stalking, dumped boyfriends with trying to blame it on anything else.

That said, Coach needs to handle the QB position ... he is paid well to handle this and put a quality improving NFL team out on the field. I reckon Orton gets another PS game to see if previous optimism of him being capable is anyway true ... otherwise Simms gets his shot.

You never trade guys like cutler for draft picks and guys like Orton... you just don't do it.

Last night we got to see why. It's going to take a little while for that sting to wear off.

WolfpackGuy
08-15-2009, 11:39 AM
I believe the order of events went something like this:

Shanahan gets fired
McDaniels becomes coach
McDaniels tries to make a play for Cassel
Cutler gets all sorts of asshurt about the trade talks
Cutler asks to be and gets traded
Broncos fans languish in Patheticville for the next 5 years

SonOfLe-loLang
08-15-2009, 11:39 AM
You never trade guys like cutler for draft picks and guys like Orton... you just don't do it.

Last night we got to see why. It's going to take a little while for that sting to wear off.

I agree with your statement, but this was ultimately bowlen's decision because Cutler had become 100 percent insubordinate. I still personally wished it was salvaged, but what are you gonna do?

Rohirrim
08-15-2009, 11:39 AM
No, but he asked to be traded once Shanny was fired. I still don't understand why some people don't blame Cutler for the way he handled this situation. He cried, b****ed, and moaned until he got his way. This is what a three year old attempts to do, not a 26 year old.

And he's not done yet. I guarantee it. ;D

DenverBrit
08-15-2009, 11:43 AM
When was this "well established"? You really believe that if Shanahan was still here that Cutler would not be in Denver?



Shanny being fired has nothing to do with McDaniels, but everything to do with Cutler wanting out of Denver.

BroncoMan4ever
08-15-2009, 11:44 AM
McDaniels was the one who started the whole Cutler drama, wasn't he?

oh my god! he answered the phone. the league is full of documented cases of a coach answering the phone and then a player sulking like a 4 year old because his name was brought up in trade talks. this entire offseason has me thinking, maybe the QB class of 2006 was mentally weak. Young can't hold up under the pressure, Jay is mopey and sulks when things don't go his way and then cried like a bitch when his name was brought up in trade talks, Leinart couldn't take the starting job after repeated opportunities and the rest of the class has nothing going on currently.

Taco John
08-15-2009, 11:44 AM
Nope, Cutler asked for a trade before McD came to town. The rest was dramatics.



This never happened.

Jason in LA
08-15-2009, 11:47 AM
I don't see how anybody can be okay with the current situation. It really is horrible. There were obviously issues with the team last year under Shanny, but it wasn't anywhere near as bad as it is now.

Bowlen didn't have to trade Cutler. If he didn't Cutler would have shown up and played. He'd still be here and at some point he and McDaniels would have made up and got to the business of playing football. It was a dumb trade.

I wonder if McDaniels ever tried to stop Bowlen from making the trade. If he didn't, then I'd hold him nearly as responsible as Bowlen for that trade. I'm figuring that if he went to Bowlen and said that he needed Cutler and that he'd work it out that Cutler wouldn't have been traded. Who in their right mind would want to start their first head coaching job with Orton at QB instead of Cutler? That's just dumb.

chawknz
08-15-2009, 11:51 AM
I was missing Jay at first, but now I'm just turned completely against him. Can't wait to boo his ass at the Chicago game.

I'm excited about the opportunities I hope McD gives us. Very nice play calling and who knows, maybe he'll be the real deal. I'm glad most of the off season personnel drama has now ended and we get to see what he's really like as a COACH.

missingnumber7
08-15-2009, 11:52 AM
I don't see how anybody can be okay with the current situation. It really is horrible. There were obviously issues with the team last year under Shanny, but it wasn't anywhere near as bad as it is now.

Bowlen didn't have to trade Cutler. If he didn't Cutler would have shown up and played. He'd still be here and at some point he and McDaniels would have made up and got to the business of playing football. It was a dumb trade.

I wonder if McDaniels ever tried to stop Bowlen from making the trade. If he didn't, then I'd hold him nearly as responsible as Bowlen for that trade. I'm figuring that if he went to Bowlen and said that he needed Cutler and that he'd work it out that Cutler wouldn't have been traded. Who in their right mind would want to start their first head coaching job with Orton at QB instead of Cutler? That's just dumb.

Probably the most logical approach to this I have seen on the board.

TheDave
08-15-2009, 11:59 AM
I don't see how anybody can be okay with the current situation. It really is horrible. There were obviously issues with the team last year under Shanny, but it wasn't anywhere near as bad as it is now.

Bowlen didn't have to trade Cutler. If he didn't Cutler would have shown up and played. He'd still be here and at some point he and McDaniels would have made up and got to the business of playing football. It was a dumb trade.

I wonder if McDaniels ever tried to stop Bowlen from making the trade. If he didn't, then I'd hold him nearly as responsible as Bowlen for that trade. I'm figuring that if he went to Bowlen and said that he needed Cutler and that he'd work it out that Cutler wouldn't have been traded. Who in their right mind would want to start their first head coaching job with Orton at QB instead of Cutler? That's just dumb.

Yeah, that's what I meant to say... ;D

DenverBrit
08-15-2009, 12:03 PM
I don't see how anybody can be okay with the current situation. It really is horrible. There were obviously issues with the team last year under Shanny, but it wasn't anywhere near as bad as it is now.

Bowlen didn't have to trade Cutler. If he didn't Cutler would have shown up and played. He'd still be here and at some point he and McDaniels would have made up and got to the business of playing football. It was a dumb trade.

I wonder if McDaniels ever tried to stop Bowlen from making the trade. If he didn't, then I'd hold him nearly as responsible as Bowlen for that trade. I'm figuring that if he went to Bowlen and said that he needed Cutler and that he'd work it out that Cutler wouldn't have been traded. Who in their right mind would want to start their first head coaching job with Orton at QB instead of Cutler? That's just dumb.

No, but he did.

When does the crying stop?? ???

Taco John
08-15-2009, 12:06 PM
No, but he did.

When does the crying stop?? ???


When we start winning.

missingnumber7
08-15-2009, 12:07 PM
No, but he did.

When does the crying stop?? ???

When we get a QB as good or better than Cutler...all three on the team right now together don't add up to one cutler...imho.

Northman
08-15-2009, 12:09 PM
When we start winning.

We werent winning with Cutler either. LOL

DenverBrit
08-15-2009, 12:10 PM
When we start winning.

Like the last two years of meltdowns and blowouts??

What exactly did Cutler and Shanny win together??

Hulamau
08-15-2009, 12:11 PM
McDaniels was the one who started the whole Cutler drama, wasn't he?

No ... Cutler's father started it when he raised a baby narcissist!

WolfpackGuy
08-15-2009, 12:12 PM
The entirely blame the disasters of 2007 and 2008 on Cutler is just crazy.
Those were two of the worst Broncos defenses in recent memory, if not ever.

DenverBrit
08-15-2009, 12:14 PM
When we get a QB as good or better than Cutler...all three on the team right now together don't add up to one cutler...imho.

No argument there, Cutler has superior football skills.

But we're going to have to listen to the non-stop whining until the second coming of JC??

I'd better buy earplugs! ;D

steeledude
08-15-2009, 12:15 PM
Cutler wanted out, it was not because of McDaniels ... that's well established.



Is it well established? Where? Here's what I know is well established. We have a third year QB who went to the pro bowl. He was upset about losing Shanahan, and Bowlen told him not to worry, Jay Cutler is the man in Denver. McD comes in and says the same thing.

McD makes some interesting/potentially good moves in free agency. Then McD apparently fields phone calls on trading his third year pro bowl QB who is the man in Denver.

Jay is angry, but McD denies everything. As the story continues to come out, McD changes his story FOUR different times to suit the facts as they come out until it is an iteration completely different than what he started with.

Then McD refuses to call Cutler by his name in public, he calls him "the player" which people argue is not passive aggressive, this is just how he talks about all players. Except everyone else he refers to by name, even Chris Baker he referred to by name in the interview after the game last night.

All of those things would make me not want to work for McD either. Those things are established. Whatever else happened is unknown, so I won't get into it. Behind the scenes yelling matches or whatever.

What happened next was truly amazing though. McD and Bowlen launched a campaign to the media which spread like wildfire--they turned Jay Cutler from tough guy pro bowl QB to whiny baby who might drink to much. The media seized on this nationwide and ran with it, because they didn't know Cutler behind the scenes. It just kind of fit with what seemed to be happening. Then our local fans started believing it. Sure Cutler was upset, but he never showed any malcontent in three years. He made some mistakes, I criticized him personally for calling out Marshall in public, but he's a young egocentric QB male.

With the way some people started talking about Cutler I wonder if they had EVER been around a good quarterback in their lives. I mean even bad high school quarterbacks have terrible primadonna attitudes. This is nothing new. Yet with Cutler it became new. It became a story. He was traded away while it seems to me only Chicago seemed to have a grasp of how ridiculous this media storm about Cutler had become.

McD fielded the worst starting preseason offense I've ever seen from the Denver Broncos. It's not like we started Bradlee Van Pelt and have to expect horrible mistakes--we started a six year veteran who, somehow in the craziness of this media driven crap, was made into one of the best quarterbacks in the league.

We watched Kyle Orton on four drives in two quarters. He threw 3 picks, and really should have had a fourth one.

McD on the sideline threw a hissy fit and started screaming at Orton early on the first drive before he broke down. I've never seen a coach in Denver go off like that before. I've seen them get mad, but he started screaming at Orton on their first time out. Orton's collapse came not long after that.

This guy drove Cutler away.

Now here is my really real opinion based on feeling as opposed to what we know: McD is a freakin' whining, arrogant, screaming jerk. He is a punk, he thinks he knows everything, and he single handedly dismantled our offense which was coming into something amazing.

We now have, what seems to be, a little improved defense which looks a lot like last year (4.5 yards a carry for running backs, and huge passes given up on 3rd down), but we're getting sacks at least. We have a starting offense that cannot sustain a drive. No matter how complicated this offense is, a six year veteran has to look better than that.

I am positive Jay Cutler would have looked better than that.

And if not then this offensive scheme maybe isn't so great. I'm not so sure the mastermind behind New England's prolific offense came to Denver, I think he's still head coaching in New England.

Taco John
08-15-2009, 12:20 PM
We werent winning with Cutler either. LOL

And people were complaining, weren't they?

Rohirrim
08-15-2009, 12:28 PM
No ... Cutler's father started it when he raised a baby narcissist!

Hilarious!

Archer81
08-15-2009, 12:33 PM
Wow...all this drama and BS over a preseason game. This is why they play preseason, to fix some of the problems before the games count. Broncos offense had flashes of what it will be capable of. The defense looked better for once. Dont get all bent out of shape over preseason. Just go with it and see what happens.

:Broncos:

NUB
08-15-2009, 12:35 PM
We weren't winning with Cutler, but that has a lot to do with the defense. I believe we were 13-1 when the opposing team only scored 21-points or less and that one loss was because Favre bombed it on Bly in overtime. Cutler had one of the best records when it came to not having a defense at all, the only problem was that he had more knocks at that statistic in a few years than some QBs do their entire careers.

Rohirrim
08-15-2009, 12:36 PM
Since we're going to rehash this again, I figured I would post USA Today's timeline as a reference. ENJOY! :thumbs:

The disintegration of the relationship between the Denver Broncos and quarterback Jay Cutler happened quickly. USA TODAY traces the steps from the end of the 2008 season to Thursday's trade that landed Cutler in Chicago:

• Dec. 30: After the Broncos lost their final three games to miss out on the playoffs, team owner Pat Bowlen fires head coach Mike Shanahan after a 14-year stint.

• Jan. 12: The Broncos name New England Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels their head coach.

• Feb. 26: Cutler's name surfaces in trade talks that could have resulted in former Patriots QB Matt Cassel being dealt to Denver. Cassel is dealt to the Kansas City Chiefs two days later.

• Feb. 28: An angry Cutler tells a Denver TV station he knows the Broncos tried to trade him. "If they want me to play somewhere else, so be it," Cutler said.

• March 3: McDaniels vows that the team will not deal Cutler. "We are not trading Jay Cutler— period," he said to NFL.com.

• March 14: Cutler and his agent, Bus Cook, meet with McDaniels and GM Brian Xanders. Cutler tells ESPN of the meeting, "As far as I'm concerned, (McDaniels) made it clear he wants his own guy."

• March 16: Cutler skips the start of the Broncos' voluntary offseason workout program. The Broncos acknowledge that Cutler asked the team to trade him.

• March 19: Cook, tells NFL.com that the quarterback was upset with Shanahan's firing and the subsequent departure of former offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates. Cutler claimed Bowlen told him he would retain Bates.

• March 19: Broncos Hall of Fame quarterback John Elway suggests Cutler needs better counsel and calls the rift sad. "I wish Jay would have got some better advice," Elway said to the Pueblo Chieftain.

• March 23: McDaniels tells the NFL Network that his relationship with Cutler was "not irreparable."

• March 24: McDaniels says the team is committed to Cutler. "He's our quarterback," McDaniels says at the owners' meetings. "I'm looking forward to him being back."

• March 31: The Broncos announce they will try to trade Cutler after Cook told the team he no longer wants to play in Denver.

• April 1: Cutler tells Fox Sports that he didn't want the rift to get this far. "I didn't want to get traded," Cutler said.

• April 2: The Broncos deal Cutler and a fifth-round pick to Chicago for two first-round draft picks, a third-rounder and QB Kyle Orton.

Williams
08-15-2009, 12:40 PM
The good news is Orton has proven to choke in meaningless preseason games/scrimmages. Cutler, on the other hand, has proven to choke down the stretch in important games with playoffs on the line. As long as Orton gets it together in the next three weeks, we'll be fine.

SoCalBronco
08-15-2009, 12:45 PM
No, but he did.



Not really....Jay said he would attend all mandatory camps. There was a mandatory minicamp coming up right after the draft...and the Broncos (mis)represented that they wouldn't trade him even if he didn't appear at that mandatory minicamp. If Bowlen really wanted to speak with him...he could have waited until that mandatory minicamp that Jay said he would appear at.

You know...I don't think Bowlen really wanted to talk to Jay...I think that was nothing more than a pretext. If he really did, he would have waited till that mandatory minicamp. If he really did...he would have done us all a favor and graced us with an appearance during that time when Jay did come to the facility to meet with McD...but he didn't. He skipped out. And now he will have to sleep in the bed that he made for himself. It couldn't happen to a more deserving person.

Rohirrim
08-15-2009, 12:48 PM
Is this latest steaming pile of drama as good as the Morton vs. Elway debacle? How about the Tommy Maddox draft stupidity? The Griese buffoonery? The Jake Plummer silliness? I can't remember which one was the most melodramatic. Of course, if we would have had the internets for those early ones, I'm sure it would have been just as silly. Imagine if the Mane was around for the Maddox/Reeves/Elway debacle? This place would have caught fire. ;D

WolfpackGuy
08-15-2009, 12:51 PM
Did the Bears redo Cutler's contract?
Or is he still under his rookie deal?

DenverBrit
08-15-2009, 12:54 PM
Not really....Jay said he would attend all mandatory camps. There was a mandatory minicamp coming up right after the draft...and the Broncos (mis)represented that they wouldn't trade him even if he didn't appear at that mandatory minicamp. If Bowlen really wanted to speak with him...he could have waited until that mandatory minicamp that Jay said he would appear at.

You know...I don't think Bowlen really wanted to talk to Jay...I think that was nothing more than a pretext. If he really did, he would have waited till that mandatory minicamp. If he really did...he would have done us all a favor and graced us with an appearance during that time when Jay did come to the facility to meet with McD...but he didn't. He skipped out. And now he will have to sleep in the bed that he made for himself. It couldn't happen to a more deserving person.

I think you misread my post......I can see why. ;D

(Bowlen didn't have to trade Cutler)

No, but he did. (anyway)

Bronco Yoda
08-15-2009, 12:54 PM
Jay who?

Do we get to snap his arm off in two weeks?

Is that allowed?

Northman
08-15-2009, 01:06 PM
Since we're going to rehash this again, I figured I would post USA Today's timeline as a reference. ENJOY! :thumbs:

The disintegration of the relationship between the Denver Broncos and quarterback Jay Cutler happened quickly. USA TODAY traces the steps from the end of the 2008 season to Thursday's trade that landed Cutler in Chicago:

• Dec. 30: After the Broncos lost their final three games to miss out on the playoffs, team owner Pat Bowlen fires head coach Mike Shanahan after a 14-year stint.

• Jan. 12: The Broncos name New England Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels their head coach.

• Feb. 26: Cutler's name surfaces in trade talks that could have resulted in former Patriots QB Matt Cassel being dealt to Denver. Cassel is dealt to the Kansas City Chiefs two days later.

• Feb. 28: An angry Cutler tells a Denver TV station he knows the Broncos tried to trade him. "If they want me to play somewhere else, so be it," Cutler said.

• March 3: McDaniels vows that the team will not deal Cutler. "We are not trading Jay Cutler— period," he said to NFL.com.

• March 14: Cutler and his agent, Bus Cook, meet with McDaniels and GM Brian Xanders. Cutler tells ESPN of the meeting, "As far as I'm concerned, (McDaniels) made it clear he wants his own guy."

• March 16: Cutler skips the start of the Broncos' voluntary offseason workout program. The Broncos acknowledge that Cutler asked the team to trade him.

• March 19: Cook, tells NFL.com that the quarterback was upset with Shanahan's firing and the subsequent departure of former offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates. Cutler claimed Bowlen told him he would retain Bates.

• March 19: Broncos Hall of Fame quarterback John Elway suggests Cutler needs better counsel and calls the rift sad. "I wish Jay would have got some better advice," Elway said to the Pueblo Chieftain.

• March 23: McDaniels tells the NFL Network that his relationship with Cutler was "not irreparable."

• March 24: McDaniels says the team is committed to Cutler. "He's our quarterback," McDaniels says at the owners' meetings. "I'm looking forward to him being back."

• March 31: The Broncos announce they will try to trade Cutler after Cook told the team he no longer wants to play in Denver.

• April 1: Cutler tells Fox Sports that he didn't want the rift to get this far. "I didn't want to get traded," Cutler said.

• April 2: The Broncos deal Cutler and a fifth-round pick to Chicago for two first-round draft picks, a third-rounder and QB Kyle Orton.

Bingo!

Jay was already being bullheaded before McDaniels had taken over and was the main reason why he got himself traded.

Northman
08-15-2009, 01:08 PM
Not really....Jay said he would attend all mandatory camps. There was a mandatory minicamp coming up right after the draft...and the Broncos (mis)represented that they wouldn't trade him even if he didn't appear at that mandatory minicamp. If Bowlen really wanted to speak with him...he could have waited until that mandatory minicamp that Jay said he would appear at.

You know...I don't think Bowlen really wanted to talk to Jay...I think that was nothing more than a pretext. If he really did, he would have waited till that mandatory minicamp. If he really did...he would have done us all a favor and graced us with an appearance during that time when Jay did come to the facility to meet with McD...but he didn't. He skipped out. And now he will have to sleep in the bed that he made for himself. It couldn't happen to a more deserving person.

Yet for 2 weeks Cook was saying that Jay wanted to be traded and when Bowlen tried to get in touch with him to see if he was going to show up to camp or wanted out Jay wouldnt return a phone call. I guess the writing was on the wall when you dont return a call from your boss.

SoCalBronco
08-15-2009, 01:11 PM
Yet for 2 weeks Cook was saying that Jay wanted to be traded and when Bowlen tried to get in touch with him to see if he was going to show up to camp or wanted out Jay wouldnt return a phone call. I guess the writing was on the wall when you dont return a call from your boss.

Why would he return Bowlen's call after they misrepresented things to him? Why would he return Bowlen's call when Bowlen had an oppurtunity to meet with Jay face to face but decided that he had better things to do? Why would he return Bowlen's call when he already indicated he would be back for a mandatory minicamp? Why would he return Bowlen's call when they tried to smear him in the media by constantly leaking things to make him look bad? If they aren't going to act in good faith, why should he? I'm glad he didn't return Bowlen's call. I'm glad Pat got disrespected. I was happy to see that. I was very happy to see that. He had it coming to him.

You don't act two-faced and get away with it. You can't try to smear someone in order to regain the advantage on the PR side on one hand and act like you are trying to patch it up on the other hand by extending your hand. They deserved to have it shoved back in their face after that. Don't tell me he has to make the callback, when he was right there in the facility and Pat didn't get off his ass to walk through a couple of rooms to meet him. No...he's waived the right to ask for a call back after that. It's simply a matter of waiver at this point.

Northman
08-15-2009, 01:19 PM
Why would he return Bowlen's call after they misrepresented things to him? Why would he return Bowlen's call when Bowlen had an oppurtunity to meet with Jay face to face but decided that he had better things to do? Why would he return Bowlen's call when he already indicated he would be back for a mandatory minicamp? Why would he return Bowlen's call when they tried to smear him in the media by constantly leaking things to make him look bad? If they aren't going to act in good faith, why should he? I'm glad he didn't return Bowlen's call. I'm glad Pat got disrespected. He had it coming to him.


1) They didnt misrepresent anything to him. He was their guy but couldnt handle a telephone call to McD to try and trade for him.

2) Bowlen has more than just Jay to worry about when it comes to player personnel and has MUCH more on his plate than Jay does at that point.

3) Jay said he would be at mandatory camp and then the following day his agent is asking for a trade.

4) Bowlen or Mcd didnt have to leak anything because Jay had already been pouting and crying to media. It was JAY who initiated the comments to the media from the get go with Shanahan's firing and everything afterwords. Bowlen and camp were only confirming what it was that Jay and Cook were saying.

Its funny how after watching how Jay behaved in the Rivers fiasco that you would take his word over an owner who never had a history of behaving like that. Bowlen and McD tried everything they possibly could to keep Jay here and when he chose not to converse with them they had to make a decision and did.

DenverBrit
08-15-2009, 01:24 PM
Since we're going to rehash this again, I figured I would post USA Today's timeline as a reference. ENJOY! :thumbs:


• March 19: Cook, tells NFL.com that the quarterback was upset with Shanahan's firing and the subsequent departure of former offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates. Cutler claimed Bowlen told him he would retain Bates.



This is where I believe the rift started.

Shanny gets fired and Jay's upset........before McD was even interviewed.

McD wants his own OC and Bates is history.

The fuse is lit.

Jason in LA
08-15-2009, 03:48 PM
No, but he did.

When does the crying stop?? ???

It's not for a number of years. As long as the Broncos suck a lot of us are going to be pissed.

Jason in LA
08-15-2009, 03:51 PM
We werent winning with Cutler either. LOL

The team wasn't far from being a winner. A few changes on D (namely from the coordinator position, which has happened), and this team would be a contender. They aren't even close anymore.

Jason in LA
08-15-2009, 03:53 PM
The entirely blame the disasters of 2007 and 2008 on Cutler is just crazy.
Those were two of the worst Broncos defenses in recent memory, if not ever.

I don't get why people ignore that point and just bash Cutler. Cutler was 13 and 1 when the D held the opponent under 20 points. So when the D simply showed up and was decent, Cutler was able to win the game for them.

lex
08-15-2009, 03:58 PM
Why would he return Bowlen's call after they misrepresented things to him? Why would he return Bowlen's call when Bowlen had an oppurtunity to meet with Jay face to face but decided that he had better things to do? Why would he return Bowlen's call when he already indicated he would be back for a mandatory minicamp? Why would he return Bowlen's call when they tried to smear him in the media by constantly leaking things to make him look bad? If they aren't going to act in good faith, why should he? I'm glad he didn't return Bowlen's call. I'm glad Pat got disrespected. I was happy to see that. I was very happy to see that. He had it coming to him.

You don't act two-faced and get away with it. You can't try to smear someone in order to regain the advantage on the PR side on one hand and act like you are trying to patch it up on the other hand by extending your hand. They deserved to have it shoved back in their face after that. Don't tell me he has to make the callback, when he was right there in the facility and Pat didn't get off his ass to walk through a couple of rooms to meet him. No...he's waived the right to ask for a call back after that. It's simply a matter of waiver at this point.

cosign

Jason in LA
08-15-2009, 03:59 PM
Did the Bears redo Cutler's contract?
Or is he still under his rookie deal?

To my understanding he's still under his rookie deal. But he'll get a new deal sooner than later, and when he does he'll probably be the highest paid player in the league. I think that's one reason why he was traded. Bowlen is broke. So now he doesn't have to pay Culter, and he doesn't have to pay a top 10 pick from next year's draft, which could be close to the top pick in the draft, if not the top pick.

Jason in LA
08-15-2009, 04:01 PM
Bingo!

Jay was already being bullheaded before McDaniels had taken over and was the main reason why he got himself traded.

I still wouldn't have traded the guy. He would of had to get over it. The team didn't act in their own best interest.

tsiguy96
08-15-2009, 04:01 PM
This is where I believe the rift started.

Shanny gets fired and Jay's upset........before McD was even interviewed.

McD wants his own OC and Bates is history.

The fuse is lit.

but its all mcd's fault, duh. cutler had nothing to do with him sitting at home and not answering the teams calls until he got traded.

DenverBrit
08-15-2009, 04:03 PM
It's not for a number of years. As long as the Broncos suck a lot of us are going to be pissed.

Me included.

But I won't be constantly crying about the 'trade'.

It's done, finished and can't be reversed, so there's really no point.

It's just like we told SD fans after the Hochuli call, it's done, move on, it's not going to change.

But they whined anyway, and we laughed at them. ;D

DenverBrit
08-15-2009, 04:10 PM
but its all mcd's fault, duh. cutler had nothing to do with him sitting at home and not answering the teams calls until he got traded.

People interpret the events based on their agenda.

But there were some good laughs as a result.

Some of the classics were straight out of 'Lie to me.'

Others, like "we were late to the party," were held up as proof that McPoopyPants was the one initiating the trade call.

It was funny at the time, but it's getting old. It's time to move on and deal with the issues 'currently' dogging the team instead of crying about who's not on the team and why.

UberBroncoMan
08-15-2009, 04:18 PM
No, but he did.

When does the crying stop?? ???

Probably when we have a QB who is young, pro-bowl quality, and has a great future ahead of him where he'll only get better.

DenverBrit
08-15-2009, 04:27 PM
Probably when we have a QB who is young, pro-bowl quality, and has a great future ahead of him where he'll only get better.

Then it would be a good idea to buy Kimberly-Clark stock. ;D

http://treesflowersbirds.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/211_kleenex.jpg

Jason in LA
08-15-2009, 06:53 PM
Me included.

But I won't be constantly crying about the 'trade'.

It's done, finished and can't be reversed, so there's really no point.

It's just like we told SD fans after the Hochuli call, it's done, move on, it's not going to change.

But they whined anyway, and we laughed at them. ;D

I can see your point. But as long as the Cutler haters start thread after thread about him, the people who are pissed about the trade are going to speak up. At this point I'd rather not hear his name.

Dr. Broncenstein
08-15-2009, 10:20 PM
I equally hate Cutler and McD, if it makes any difference... and Bowlen, for that matter. Cutler for getting butthurt and dragging everything out in the press. McD for walking in swinging a hatchet just to have his guys, regardless of necesity. How could anyone in their right mind come into this gig thinking the quarterback was the problem? What about Mike Leach? That guy was the best special teamer on the roster... cut for a higher priced guy to do the same thing. Ultimately I'm pissed at Bowlen for caving to his emotions instead of holding Cutler to his contract.

I miss Jay's talent... but certainly won't miss the petulant antics. Regardless, he is a franchise quarterback and a once per decade talent. I seriously doubt any other coach would have caused this problem, or let it deteriorate to a total meltdown.

TheDave
08-15-2009, 10:22 PM
I equally hate Cutler and McD, if it makes any difference... and Bowlen, for that matter. Cutler for getting butthurt and dragging everything out in the press. McD for walking in swinging a hatchet just to have his guys, regardless of necesity. How could anyone in their right mind come into this gig thinking the quarterback was the problem? What about Mike Leach? That guy was the best special teamer on the roster... cut for a higher priced guy to do the same thing. Ultimately I'm pissed at Bowlen for caving to his emotions instead of holding Cutler to his contract.

I miss Jay's talent... but certainly won't miss the petulant antics. Regardless, he is a franchise quarterback and a once per decade talent. I seriously doubt any other coach would have caused this problem, or let it deteriorate to a total meltdown.

You're just a bad fan... ;)

DenverBrit
08-15-2009, 10:26 PM
I can see your point. But as long as the Cutler haters start thread after thread about him, the people who are pissed about the trade are going to speak up. At this point I'd rather not hear his name.

I'm with you.

Maybe they'll get over the 'trade' eventually, but not Cutler....he's the new Quitterson.......but more so.

Dr. Broncenstein
08-15-2009, 10:28 PM
You're just a bad fan... ;)

On a positive note, I have developed a red-hot case of Kyle Orton Fever. I can't get enough of watching this guy play.

KipCorrington25
08-15-2009, 11:55 PM
I think the issue is that McDaniels came in, an outsider and immediatly discarded our best player. Let's he honest here, Cassel v. Cutler is a joke, and McD owns that. For the unforeseeable future McDaniels is Orton and Orton sucks so therefore McDaniels sucks and he deserves that for running off a pro bowl QB for a horrible QB.

misturanderson
08-16-2009, 12:43 AM
I miss Jay's talent... but certainly won't miss the petulant antics. Regardless, he is a franchise quarterback and a once per decade talent. I seriously doubt any other coach would have caused this problem, or let it deteriorate to a total meltdown.

Yet physical talent will get you nowhere if you don't have the mental talent to utilize it properly.

All the talent in the world and Cutler barely does better than Orton's pathetic performance in his first preseason game (worse in a few measurables).

Nobody has ever said that Orton has better physical talent, but Cutler's overall talent is by no means elite and he certainly isn't the sure thing, "franchise QB," many of you make him out to be.

misturanderson
08-16-2009, 12:44 AM
I think the issue is that McDaniels came in, an outsider and immediatly discarded our best player. Let's he honest here, Cassel v. Cutler is a joke, and McD owns that. For the unforeseeable future McDaniels is Orton and Orton sucks so therefore McDaniels sucks and he deserves that for running off a pro bowl QB for a horrible QB.

Clady is and was BY FAR our best player.

Hulamau
08-16-2009, 02:55 AM
Not really....Jay said he would attend all mandatory camps. There was a mandatory minicamp coming up right after the draft...and the Broncos (mis)represented that they wouldn't trade him even if he didn't appear at that mandatory minicamp. If Bowlen really wanted to speak with him...he could have waited until that mandatory minicamp that Jay said he would appear at.

You know...I don't think Bowlen really wanted to talk to Jay...I think that was nothing more than a pretext. If he really did, he would have waited till that mandatory minicamp. If he really did...he would have done us all a favor and graced us with an appearance during that time when Jay did come to the facility to meet with McD...but he didn't. He skipped out. And now he will have to sleep in the bed that he made for himself. It couldn't happen to a more deserving person.

I totally disagree with your view on this SoCal. You don't stand up the owner and not return his calls.... Period!! Bowlen and McD were bending over backwards to show Jay he was wanted, respected and that they intended him as our QB.

Jay had every opportunity to take a step forward if he had any intention too at all. Instead, Cutler misread his position and aggressively did the OPPOSITE and told Bowlen by his silence to go **** himself when Bowlen called his agent saying he urgently needed to hear from Jay right away.

Cutler and Cook were going to play hard ball all the way. If he came to camp it was going to be as a a disgruntled surly punk with a chip on his shoulder ... there would have been no indication that he was going to come around, if you think differently than you simply didn't look at the history of Cook busting Favre out of Green Bay's contract and McNair with Tennessee .... plus that would have been AFTER the draft in any event!

If they were going to part ways, the only time to do it was pre-draft where we could get some players THIS year. Trading him for a bunch of picks in the future wouldn't help nearly so much in getting this new regime off on the right foot.

But make no mistake, the trade happened BECAUSE of Cutler's petulant, arrogant, unbending "I am the center of the universe" attitude.

If Bowlen had given in to that CRAP behavior then the owner, coach and the whole team becomes Cutler's whore and his narcissism would know no limits!

Sure, Cutler has more talent that Orton, otherwise this is a non-issue. The only question is, what was Bowlen and company willing to sell their ethics and 'soul' for?

And we'll see how it all turns out in the long run? I wouldn't be surprised at all, even if Orton doesn't turn out to be a decent QB for us, that we are all happy, longer-term, that guy didn't stick around. Time will tell and nothing that happens this preseason is going to tell the tale.

And in any event its long past crying over spilt milk, especially a bottle that had turned so sour.

Atwater His Ass
08-16-2009, 03:12 AM
The team wasn't far from being a winner. A few changes on D (namely from the coordinator position, which has happened), and this team would be a contender. They aren't even close anymore.

And this is really the bottom line. Anyone who is happy with the state of the team as it currently stands is living with their head stuck down a hole.

Fact is, this team is not better off with Orton at QB and Cutler in Chicago. You can cry he said she said all day, but the Denver Broncos are a dramatically worse off team than they were last year.

footstepsfrom#27
08-16-2009, 03:26 AM
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This

Blueflame
08-16-2009, 03:26 AM
:deadhorse

Seriously, we can hash and re-hash the "whose fault was it?" threads endlessly and nothing at all will change. The die is already cast and no amount of further debate is going to change others' viewpoints. Cutler's moved on and we as fans need to do the same.


Go Broncos.

Steve Prefontaine
08-16-2009, 05:44 AM
No, but he asked to be traded once Shanny was fired. I still don't understand why some people don't blame Cutler for the way he handled this situation. He cried, b****ed, and moaned until he got his way. This is what a three year old attempts to do, not a 26 year old.
So you agree with me then? Cutler would probably still be in Denver if Shanny was there. That was my point.

Personally I blame both sides (Cutler and the organization) for how it went down. Both parties could have handled the situation better.

Dr. Broncenstein
08-16-2009, 08:09 AM
Yet physical talent will get you nowhere if you don't have the mental talent to utilize it properly.

All the talent in the world and Cutler barely does better than Orton's pathetic performance in his first preseason game (worse in a few measurables).

Nobody has ever said that Orton has better physical talent, but Cutler's overall talent is by no means elite and he certainly isn't the sure thing, "franchise QB," many of you make him out to be.

Mike Mayock thinks so.

Mike Shanahan certainly thought so.

The Chicago Bears think so.

But what do they know? Did they not recieve your memo?

Jason in LA
08-16-2009, 09:18 AM
I totally disagree with your view on this SoCal. You don't stand up the owner and not return his calls.... Period!! Bowlen and McD were bending over backwards to show Jay he was wanted, respected and that they intended him as our QB.

Jay had every opportunity to take a step forward if he had any intention too at all. Instead, Cutler misread his position and aggressively did the OPPOSITE and told Bowlen by his silence to go **** himself when Bowlen called his agent saying he urgently needed to hear from Jay right away.

Cutler and Cook were going to play hard ball all the way. If he came to camp it was going to be as a a disgruntled surly punk with a chip on his shoulder ... there would have been no indication that he was going to come around, if you think differently than you simply didn't look at the history of Cook busting Favre out of Green Bay's contract and McNair with Tennessee .... plus that would have been AFTER the draft in any event!

If they were going to part ways, the only time to do it was pre-draft where we could get some players THIS year. Trading him for a bunch of picks in the future wouldn't help nearly so much in getting this new regime off on the right foot.

But make no mistake, the trade happened BECAUSE of Cutler's petulant, arrogant, unbending "I am the center of the universe" attitude.

If Bowlen had given in to that CRAP behavior then the owner, coach and the whole team becomes Cutler's whore and his narcissism would know no limits!

Sure, Cutler has more talent that Orton, otherwise this is a non-issue. The only question is, what was Bowlen and company willing to sell their ethics and 'soul' for?

And we'll see how it all turns out in the long run? I wouldn't be surprised at all, even if Orton doesn't turn out to be a decent QB for us, that we are all happy, longer-term, that guy didn't stick around. Time will tell and nothing that happens this preseason is going to tell the tale.

And in any event its long past crying over spilt milk, especially a bottle that had turned so sour.

Even if all that is true, you still don't trade him. You don't screw the franchise because your star employee was having a fit. You deal with it. Cutler would have shown up and played. And that point they could have all attempted to fix the relationship, which probably would of happened. There was no need to pull the plug.

It was a dumb trade, and I'd say that it had more to do with Cutler not returning a phone call. Like I've said a few times now, Bowlen is broke and Cutler is in line to become one of the next highest paid player in the league. I think this gave Bowlen an out and he took it. And now he doesn't have to pay a top pick in next year's draft because they made another dumb trade.

Jason in LA
08-16-2009, 09:28 AM
Personally I blame both sides (Cutler and the organization) for how it went down. Both parties could have handled the situation better.

I totally agree. But in the end, only one side can make the final decision. And they made a horrible one.

tsiguy96
08-16-2009, 09:39 AM
I totally agree. But in the end, only one side can make the final decision. And they made a horrible one.

how did they get put into the situation where they needed to make a decision? i agree they should have let him sit, but when a guy is at home crying about getting traded and not taking to anyone broncos related, it sorta forces their hand. he pissed off bowlen, how is a pissed off owner gonna react? but in the end, we just may have gotten the better end of hte deal, and dumped cutler why his value was high.

Rock Chalk
08-16-2009, 10:08 AM
I believe the order of events went something like this:

Shanahan gets fired
McDaniels becomes coach
McDaniels tries to make a play for Cassel
Cutler gets all sorts of asshurt about the trade talks
Cutler asks to be and gets traded
Broncos fans languish in Patheticville for the next 5 years

And you'd be wrong.

Shanahan gets fired, along with Jeremy Bates.
Cutler begins to voice his displeasure.
McDaniels becomes head coach.
MCDaniels tries to say all the right things wants to coach Cutler.
McDaniels FIELDS A PHONE CALL FROM ANOTHER team interested in Trading for Cutler.
McDaniels does NOT take the bait.
Cutler gets wind of it, begins crying to the media.
Cutler refuses to talk to McDaniels.
Bowlen steps in, tries to call.
Cutler refuses to talk to the Owner.
Bowlen tells McDaniels he doesn't want the little ****ing pussy on our team

lex
08-16-2009, 10:13 AM
And you'd be wrong.

Shanahan gets fired, along with Jeremy Bates.
Cutler begins to voice his displeasure.
McDaniels becomes head coach.
MCDaniels tries to say all the right things wants to coach Cutler.
McDaniels FIELDS A PHONE CALL FROM ANOTHER team interested in Trading for Cutler.
McDaniels does NOT take the bait.
Cutler gets wind of it, begins crying to the media.
Cutler refuses to talk to McDaniels.
Bowlen steps in, tries to call.
Cutler refuses to talk to the Owner.
Bowlen tells McDaniels he doesn't want the little ****ing p***Y on our team


You have your facts wrong.