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View Full Version : Orton and the McD Offense.


24champ
08-15-2009, 01:33 AM
I watched the game twice since I DVR'ed it, and talked to several other people after the game about Orton's performance. The biggest excuse I heard tonight, was that McDaniels offense is incredibly hard to learn. That may be true, and got me thinking that McDaniels is most likely testing out Orton to see what he can do with certain plays. Granted he played like dog**** tonight, but he did have a decent drive until that first interception, which I am positive if we had Marshall. Orton would have thrown a lob to Marshall to use his size.

My theory is that McDaniels is throwing the entire playbook at Orton right now, and then we will see McDaniels tighten up the playbook to suit Orton's capabilities. Much like Shanahan/Kubiak did with Plummer. Again I am not happy at all with Orton tonight, but it's the first pre-season game. I am not going to jump off the cliff...just yet. If Orton has a few more games like this, then there is always Simms who by all accounts looked pretty exciting in the second half.

DBroncos4life
08-15-2009, 01:37 AM
play book or not this is Orton's 6th year in the NFL and McD had picked him.

24champ
08-15-2009, 01:48 AM
play book or not this is Orton's 6th year in the NFL and McD had picked him.

It's not that simple. He was impressing everyone until he made a mistake of a crappy throw into the endzone. Couple that with the fact McDaniels is one of the better QB coaches in the league, I am going to look for some improvement from this game to the next.

WABronco
08-15-2009, 01:59 AM
no he's ****ing done DONE I TELL YOU

Hulamau
08-15-2009, 02:01 AM
I watched the game twice since I DVR'ed it, and talked to several other people after the game about Orton's performance. The biggest excuse I heard tonight, was that McDaniels offense is incredibly hard to learn. That may be true, and got me thinking that McDaniels is most likely testing out Orton to see what he can do with certain plays. Granted he played like dog**** tonight, but he did have a decent drive until that first interception, which I am positive if we had Marshall. Orton would have thrown a lob to Marshall to use his size.

My theory is that McDaniels is throwing the entire playbook at Orton right now, and then we will see McDaniels tighten up the playbook to suit Orton's capabilities. Much like Shanahan/Kubiak did with Plummer. Again I am not happy at all with Orton tonight, but it's the first pre-season game. I am not going to jump off the cliff...just yet. If Orton has a few more games like this, then there is always Simms who by all accounts looked pretty exciting in the second half.

Fair assessment 24Champ.

We'd all would have preferred 4 TD's and no picks in the first half. And Kyle has some things to clean up asap, but its FAR too early for coronary spasms.

Its not just Orton that is new here, the system, coaches .. and for Orton all the other players are relatively new as well. He did have a good first drive until that unfortunate throw in the end-zone.

That pick at least was easier to understand as Clement's made a nice reversal of his momentum when it looked like he was running away from Graham and made a good play on the ball. Graham looked open when Orton let go of that ball. The second pick was just a terrible throw into a totally covered WR and an easy pick for Bly.

The third one should have been complete for a long gain had he gotten a 6" more air under the ball. Those last two picks he cant be throwing in the regular season.

But these 'Sky is Falling' whiner's crack me up here though. At least they would sound alot more reasonable and thoughtful if they could wait until at least until the third or fourth game of the season, after so many changes this offseason, before jumping off the cliff. :-)

DBroncos4life
08-15-2009, 02:11 AM
It's not that simple. He was impressing everyone until he made a mistake of a crappy throw into the endzone. Couple that with the fact McDaniels is one of the better QB coaches in the league, I am going to look for some improvement from this game to the next.

3 picks in 19 passes. I have the game recorded too. McD has proven nothing in the NFL when it comes to QBs other then the hype he got from fans. Mike Shanahan coached with John Elway and Steve Young. Those guys are good.

OrangeRising
08-15-2009, 02:13 AM
It's not that simple. He was impressing everyone until he made a mistake of a crappy throw into the endzone. Couple that with the fact McDaniels is one of the better QB coaches in the league, I am going to look for some improvement from this game to the next.


Some? Would two, as opposed to three interceptions per half qualify. That's 'some' improvement.

I can't even wrap my head around how bad this guy might be if Moreno is out for the season and Hillis gets dinged at some point after 300 carries the first 6 games.

It seems clear to me that Brandon Marshall will do everything he can to 'honor' his contract without investing his emotional energy into winning.

Minus Cutler. Minus a dedicated Marshall. Minus Moreno. That leaves Eddie Royal, Peyton Hillis, a great offensive line and the same old issues on defense.

Good job McDaniels. In a single off-season you've re-made a work of art in progress into a crayon scribble of a three year old.

24champ
08-15-2009, 02:18 AM
Fair assessment 24Champ.

We'd all have preferred preferred 4 TD's and no picks in the first half. And Kyle has some things to clean up asap, but its FAR too early for coronary spasms.

Its not just Orton that is new here, the system, coaches .. and for Orton all the other players are relatively new as well. He did have a good first drive until that unfortunate throw in the end-zone.

That pick at least was easier to understand as Clement's made a nice reversal of his momentum when it looked like he was running away from Graham and made a good play on the ball. Graham looked open when Orton let go of that ball. The second pick was just a terrible throw into a totally covered WR and an easy pick for Bly.

The third one should have been complete for a long gain had he gotten a 6" more air under the ball. Those last two picks he cant be throwing in the regular season.

But these 'Sky is Falling' whiner's crack me up here though. At least they would sound alot more reasonable and thoughtful if they could wait until at least until the third or fourth game of the season, after so many changes this offseason, before jumping off the cliff. :-)

I don't think the 49ers are a better team than us, Broncos just shot themselves in the foot tonight.

My main concern right now is seeing improvement for next weekend against the Seachickens and later with the Bears. If it gets worse or not much has changed. I would hope McDaniels shakes it up a little. We are going to need to jump out of the gate at 3-0 to have a shot at a successful season.

ZONA
08-15-2009, 02:27 AM
For what it worth, Cassell had a horrible presason last year as well and threw several picks. He cleaned it up and had an amazing year last year once the regular season started.

Orton looked alright on the first drive but he clearly doesn't have a great arm. It's not weak but it's not a strong arm by any means. A stronger arm would have resulted in a TD on that first drive. He also could have thrown it higher which also could have resulted in a TD but would have prevented the pick. The 2nd INT was pathetic, the WR was NEVER even open for a second. The 3rd pick at least he made the right read and the WR was open but not a great throw. That LB did jump to snag it but it wasn't like he was jumping through the roof to get it. That ball needed another 2 feet to be safe. Clearly not a good night for him, I'd have to give him an F.

Simms looked solid. Yes, he went against 2nd team defense but also had 2nd team offense to work with so that's a wash. He chose his targets well, move around to buy time and threw the ball away when he had to. Simms gets a A-.

24champ
08-15-2009, 02:29 AM
Some? Would two, as opposed to three interceptions per half qualify. That's 'some' improvement.


Well I am not going to expect 4-5 TDs and 400 yds from Orton in a game this season, he isn't that type of QB. He just needs to lead the team down the field early get a lead and not make a lot of mistakes like he did tonight. I'm not going to flip out over one half of pre-season football. Disappointed? Certainly I am, I think every Bronco fan is disappointed tonight as well.

elsid13
08-15-2009, 03:59 AM
It's not that simple. He was impressing everyone until he made a mistake of a crappy throw into the endzone. Couple that with the fact McDaniels is one of the better QB coaches in the league, I am going to look for some improvement from this game to the next.

I was more impressed with scheme, oline and the ability of the WR to get up then Orton last night. Most of that first drive the WRs found nice holes in the zones and sat down. There was a pass to the sidelines on that first drive that if the CB had been paying attention, could on been driven on for the INT and TD. It just took to long to get were it needed to be, and that was with clean pocket and quick out.

Rabb
08-15-2009, 04:47 AM
the only thing that bothered me (other than the obvious...turnover) about the first 2 picks was that he clearly stared Graham and Stokers down the entire time...then on the third one he GROSSLY underthrew a wide open guy

I do agree with you though on what McD was doing, it was pretty clear when the 2nd half was more simplified

the other thing that I did not like was, on all 3 INT's, Orton had all day to throw

ah well, I am keeping the faith...no reason for me to be all Jim Armstrong yet

Lomax
08-15-2009, 04:59 AM
I was more impressed with scheme, oline and the ability of the WR to get up then Orton last night. Most of that first drive the WRs found nice holes in the zones and sat down. There was a pass to the sidelines on that first drive that if the CB had been paying attention, could on been driven on for the INT and TD. It just took to long to get were it needed to be, and that was with clean pocket and quick out.

Royal, yes. Stokley, yes. Gaffney? Where was he? I think he was thrown to once. Maybe he was the deep read that Orton never progressed to.

I wasn't impressed with our inability to bang it for short yardage. Whenever we went big it almost always resulted in a stop for no gain. I'm sure those kinks will be worked out, and we were not really opening up the playbook in those situations, but if there was one thing I would like to see us incorporate from New England's offense it's redzone and goalline scoring.

elsid13
08-15-2009, 05:11 AM
Royal, yes. Stokley, yes. Gaffney? Where was he? I think he was thrown to once. Maybe he was the deep read that Orton never progressed to.

I wasn't impressed with our inability to bang it for short yardage. Whenever we went big it almost always resulted in a stop for no gain. I'm sure those kinks will be worked out, and we were not really opening up the playbook in those situations, but if there was one thing I would like to see us incorporate from New England's offense it's redzone and goalline scoring.

Gaffney appeared to forcing the safeties to play deep and clear out underneath stuff for Royal and Stokley. When Marshall comes back,it will be interesting to see how he is incorporated within the passing game. Going Deep like Moss isn't his game, he need to be getting the ball in the middle zone area on crosses, mesh routes,comebacks.

I think the running was crappy because of Jordan. As a back he has no lateral movement anymore and it takes to long for him hit the holes.

lex
08-15-2009, 05:24 AM
I watched the game twice since I DVR'ed it, and talked to several other people after the game about Orton's performance. The biggest excuse I heard tonight, was that McDaniels offense is incredibly hard to learn. That may be true, and got me thinking that McDaniels is most likely testing out Orton to see what he can do with certain plays. Granted he played like dog**** tonight, but he did have a decent drive until that first interception, which I am positive if we had Marshall. Orton would have thrown a lob to Marshall to use his size.

My theory is that McDaniels is throwing the entire playbook at Orton right now, and then we will see McDaniels tighten up the playbook to suit Orton's capabilities. Much like Shanahan/Kubiak did with Plummer. Again I am not happy at all with Orton tonight, but it's the first pre-season game. I am not going to jump off the cliff...just yet. If Orton has a few more games like this, then there is always Simms who by all accounts looked pretty exciting in the second half.

And he's not throwing the entire playbook at Simms?

lex
08-15-2009, 05:25 AM
Gaffney appeared to forcing the safeties to play deep and clear out underneath stuff for Royal and Stokley. When Marshall comes back,it will be interesting to see how he is incorporated within the passing game. Going Deep like Moss isn't his game, he need to be getting the ball in the middle zone area on crosses, mesh routes,comebacks.

I think the running was crappy because of Jordan. As a back he has no lateral movement anymore and it takes to long for him hit the holes.

Darius Walker looked a lot better than Jordan.

Premier-Ace55
08-15-2009, 05:42 AM
I like the offense from what i saw of it in the first half . Orton i'm not impressed with at all. I'm not going into detail but I would like to see an upgrade in the offseason were kinda stuck with him for now.

footstepsfrom#27
08-15-2009, 05:59 AM
My theory is that McDaniels is throwing the entire playbook at Orton right now, and then we will see McDaniels tighten up the playbook to suit Orton's capabilities. Much like Shanahan/Kubiak did with Plummer.
In all honesty that makes me feel worse.

Broncos4tw
08-15-2009, 07:21 AM
I dunno... I wasn't that impressed with his play prior to the meltdown. He threw very short, safe passes, he hardly inspired me in any way. One of his passes was very low, it was due to the skill of Royal that was even caught, to keep the drive going. He doesn't scramble, and his vision is just terrible.

On his first int, he had awesome protection, no one was even near him, and he threw a perfect pass... to the other guy. I'm afraid he is what he is. And even if he fixes his int issue, I still don't think he'll ever be more than an average QB in this league.

lex
08-15-2009, 07:24 AM
I dunno... I wasn't that impressed with his play prior to the meltdown. He threw very short, safe passes, he hardly inspired me in any way. One of his passes was very low, it was due to the skill of Royal that was even caught, to keep the drive going. He doesn't scramble, and his vision is just terrible.

On his first int, he had awesome protection, no one was even near him, and he threw a perfect pass... to the other guy. I'm afraid he is what he is. And even if he fixes his int issue, I still don't think he'll ever be more than an average QB in this league.

One thing that you can say about Orton is that he most likely would take a demotion like a pro.

TheReverend
08-15-2009, 08:09 AM
All he did was take the outs SF's base D was giving him... hold for applause, lol? he's gonna have a much bigger wake up call in the regular season... or, say, vs Chicago week 3 in what may be the most embarrassing moment in modern Broncos history.

broncogary
08-15-2009, 08:11 AM
play book or not this is Orton's 6th year in the NFL and McD had picked him.

Only his fifth year.

WolfpackGuy
08-15-2009, 08:14 AM
10 years from now we're gonna say, "They traded WHO for WHO?"

Lolad
08-15-2009, 08:16 AM
What helped Simms was the fact that Mcdaniels played more of a ball control offense in the 2nd half. Probably because Hillis can actually run the damn football instead of L. Jordan

ghwk
08-15-2009, 08:18 AM
the only thing that bothered me (other than the obvious...turnover) about the first 2 picks was that he clearly stared Graham and Stokers down the entire time...then on the third one he GROSSLY underthrew a wide open guy

I do agree with you though on what McD was doing, it was pretty clear when the 2nd half was more simplified

the other thing that I did not like was, on all 3 INT's, Orton had all day to throw

ah well, I am keeping the faith...no reason for me to be all Jim Armstrong yet

I've seen posts on other boards as well, including one from a guy at the game, that Orton locks on a target and didn't look off a single defender.

Hell even Sanchez for the Jets was on ESPN last night where they demonstrated his exact ability to do that. He then completes a 50 yard pass downfield.

ghwk
08-15-2009, 08:20 AM
Gaffney appeared to forcing the safeties to play deep and clear out underneath stuff for Royal and Stokley. When Marshall comes back,it will be interesting to see how he is incorporated within the passing game. Going Deep like Moss isn't his game, he need to be getting the ball in the middle zone area on crosses, mesh routes,comebacks.

I think the running was crappy because of Jordan. As a back he has no lateral movement anymore and it takes to long for him hit the holes.

How come Jordan got to play with the first team and Hillis with the 2nd? If i was Hillis I'd be pissed.

TheDave
08-15-2009, 08:24 AM
Semi serious question here...

Has anyone ever seen a veteran QB throw 3 picks on 3 consecutive drives? Been watching the NFL for almost 30 years now... and I can't remember seeing that before.

TheReverend
08-15-2009, 08:29 AM
Semi serious question here...

Has anyone ever seen a veteran QB throw 3 picks on 3 consecutive drives? Been watching the NFL for almost 30 years now... and I can't remember seeing that before.

I think when you throw in "Preseason Week 1" it becomes even more absurd

oubronco
08-15-2009, 08:32 AM
All he did was take the outs SF's base D was giving him... hold for applause, lol? he's gonna have a much bigger wake up call in the regular season... or, say, vs Chicago week 3 in what may be the most embarrassing moment in modern Broncos history.

with the way Shaun Hill was moving the ball I'd say watch out for the Cutler show

oubronco
08-15-2009, 08:33 AM
Semi serious question here...

Has anyone ever seen a veteran QB throw 3 picks on 3 consecutive drives? Been watching the NFL for almost 30 years now... and I can't remember seeing that before.

and if the corner would've turned his head it probably would've been 4

broncogary
08-15-2009, 08:33 AM
Semi serious question here...

Has anyone ever seen a veteran QB throw 3 picks on 3 consecutive drives? Been watching the NFL for almost 30 years now... and I can't remember seeing that before.

He's on a record-setting pace. :strong:

lostknight
08-15-2009, 08:34 AM
Orton would have thrown a lob to Marshall to use his size.


Orton can't lob. That's the problem. A Saturn 5 could take off, Buzz Aldrin and Neil could land on the moon, the capsule could make it's heated re-entry and they could throw a ticker tape parade in New York before a slow ball from him comes down.

If Orton has a few more games like this, then there is always Simms who by all accounts looked pretty exciting in the second half.[/QUOTE]

Simms has the physical tools, but does he understand the system? At this point, I am to the "screw the system" and "talent is required for system to work" point.

WolfpackGuy
08-15-2009, 08:36 AM
Orton was in a constant struggle to beat out Grossman in Chicago.
Nobody can be surprised by his performance so far.

elsid13
08-15-2009, 08:37 AM
How come Jordan got to play with the first team and Hillis with the 2nd? If i was Hillis I'd be pissed.

I have no idea, Hillis played almost exclusively at FB during 1st half. They must have wanted to see how certain players looked.

oubronco
08-15-2009, 08:39 AM
Orton was in a constant struggle to beat out Grossman in Chicago.
Nobody can be surprised by his performance so far.

Don't forget Griese :approve:

broncogary
08-15-2009, 08:40 AM
Grossman's playing third string here in Houston now. He might be available.

Br0nc0Buster
08-15-2009, 08:40 AM
Semi serious question here...

Has anyone ever seen a veteran QB throw 3 picks on 3 consecutive drives? Been watching the NFL for almost 30 years now... and I can't remember seeing that before.

I think Delhome might of done it in the playoffs earlier this year when he threw 5 picks

WolfpackGuy
08-15-2009, 08:43 AM
Don't forget Griese :approve:

Just when I thought I couldn't feel any worse...

Lolad
08-15-2009, 08:43 AM
I have no idea, Hillis played almost exclusively at FB during 1st half. They must have wanted to see how certain players looked.

The camp reports since day 1 of training camp have said he looks unimpressive. Even being as big as he is it's not working, he can't even push the pile. He should be cut but I guarantee he stays if More o is out for an extended period of time. It's pathetic, it seems like Josh sticks with his guys even though he knows they are bad just for the sake of him not admitting he was wrong

TheDave
08-15-2009, 08:49 AM
I think Delhome might of done it in the playoffs earlier this year when he threw 5 picks

That is possible...

It took Delhomme 34 attemps to throw 5 picks. Or 1 pick per 6.8 attemps.

Orton did his damage in 19 attempts... Or a pick rate of 6.3

Close but I would need to see a game log to see if Delhome pulled off the hat trick.

Broncoman13
08-15-2009, 08:53 AM
I watched the game twice since I DVR'ed it, and talked to several other people after the game about Orton's performance. The biggest excuse I heard tonight, was that McDaniels offense is incredibly hard to learn. That may be true, and got me thinking that McDaniels is most likely testing out Orton to see what he can do with certain plays. Granted he played like dog**** tonight, but he did have a decent drive until that first interception, which I am positive if we had Marshall. Orton would have thrown a lob to Marshall to use his size.

My theory is that McDaniels is throwing the entire playbook at Orton right now, and then we will see McDaniels tighten up the playbook to suit Orton's capabilities. Much like Shanahan/Kubiak did with Plummer. Again I am not happy at all with Orton tonight, but it's the first pre-season game. I am not going to jump off the cliff...just yet. If Orton has a few more games like this, then there is always Simms who by all accounts looked pretty exciting in the second half.

Bravo! Not to mention the fact that Orton really started pressing after the 1st INT. I'm not going to freak out yet. We threw the ball a lot and Chris Simms was looking great against 2nd and 3rd team players. The team outplayed the 49ers yesterday. What are we looking for as fans? Personally, I want to see if our players are going to show heart and play their assess off. They did! I'm happy with where we are right now and I think we'll be a lot better than people think.

cousinal11
08-15-2009, 08:54 AM
That is possible...

It took Delhomme 34 attemps to throw 5 picks. Or 1 pick per 6.8 attemps.

Orton did his damage in 19 attempts... Or a pick rate of 6.3

Close but I would need to see a game log to see if Delhome pulled off the hat trick.

I believe Delhomme also fumbled one away in that game. 6 TO's. Pretty impressive.

gobroncos313
08-15-2009, 09:01 AM
Nothing to worry about other than Knowshons knee.

We have a totally new coaching staff, a 50% turnover in player personnel and just played our first game and on the road. We had three turnovers and only lost by a point. Erase just one or two of the turnovers and we win the game handily. I think our D looked improved. They seem to play a lot tougher than last years D. I thought we were a little soft in coverage but that is expected in preseason.

24champ
08-15-2009, 09:14 AM
I was more impressed with scheme, oline and the ability of the WR to get up then Orton last night. Most of that first drive the WRs found nice holes in the zones and sat down. There was a pass to the sidelines on that first drive that if the CB had been paying attention, could on been driven on for the INT and TD. It just took to long to get were it needed to be, and that was with clean pocket and quick out.

Agreed on the scheme, and players on offense not named Orton.

My point is that McDaniels right now is trying to figure out what Orton can and cannot do. That's why he played an entire half. I didn't think he would toss 3 interceptions, and was very disappointed in his play but right now, it's time as fans to look onto the game and look for improvement before we jump off a cliff.

TheReverend
08-15-2009, 09:19 AM
Agreed on the scheme, and players on offense not named Orton.

My point is that McDaniels right now is trying to figure out what Orton can and cannot do. That's why he played an entire half. I didn't think he would toss 3 interceptions, and was very disappointed in his play but right now, it's time as fans to look onto the game and look for improvement before we jump off a cliff.

Did he even attempt a deep ball? The guy couldn't even throw intermediate passes.

24champ
08-15-2009, 09:22 AM
Did he even attempt a deep ball? The guy couldn't even throw intermediate passes.

In this offense, there isn't going to be a lot of deep passes Rev.

Broncoman13
08-15-2009, 09:24 AM
Jeff, didn't I tell you there was reason to be concerned regarding Moreno? This is something that happens occasionally, it happens half the time! Terrible timing and b/c Moreno was late coming in he was "out to prove himself" and therefore not about to come out of a game on his own. Coaches have to be able to trust the players. I know Rev knows this, if Moreno said he was okay and kept playing, then the coaches should trust he's okay and keep playing him.

Lolad
08-15-2009, 09:26 AM
Jeff, didn't I tell you there was reason to be concerned regarding Moreno? This is something that happens occasionally, it happens half the time! Terrible timing and b/c Moreno was late coming in he was "out to prove himself" and therefore not about to come out of a game on his own. Coaches have to be able to trust the players. I know Rev knows this, if Moreno said he was okay and kept playing, then the coaches should trust he's okay and keep playing him.

If you watch the replays on the last INT Moreno was injured when he got pushed from the blind side and came up limping. I think the 1st time when he was limping was because of a knee bruise.

24champ
08-15-2009, 09:29 AM
And he's not throwing the entire playbook at Simms?

Good point. I'm not going to dispute that at all. That's what preseason is for, if Simms does well and Orton doesn't improve from this game. Then it's time to put Simms at #1.

Premier-Ace55
08-15-2009, 09:33 AM
Guys I hope that orton improves quick

DenverBrit
08-15-2009, 09:33 AM
Just when I thought I couldn't feel any worse...

You're not trying.

How about watching the team play SD in their house.....or the home game against SD two years ago, when the stadium walked out at the end of the 3rd qtr?
Or the three game meltdown at the end of last season?
Or any of the embarrassing home games against div foes?

Makes the 1st half of the 1st pre-season game, on the road, seem like a step forward. ;D

24champ
08-15-2009, 09:35 AM
Jeff, didn't I tell you there was reason to be concerned regarding Moreno? This is something that happens occasionally, it happens half the time! Terrible timing and b/c Moreno was late coming in he was "out to prove himself" and therefore not about to come out of a game on his own. Coaches have to be able to trust the players. I know Rev knows this, if Moreno said he was okay and kept playing, then the coaches should trust he's okay and keep playing him.

Unfortunately you were right, however I didn't expect Moreno to be on the field that much.

Hamrob
08-15-2009, 09:48 AM
For what it worth, Cassell had a horrible presason last year as well and threw several picks. He cleaned it up and had an amazing year last year once the regular season started.

Orton looked alright on the first drive but he clearly doesn't have a great arm. It's not weak but it's not a strong arm by any means. A stronger arm would have resulted in a TD on that first drive. He also could have thrown it higher which also could have resulted in a TD but would have prevented the pick. The 2nd INT was pathetic, the WR was NEVER even open for a second. The 3rd pick at least he made the right read and the WR was open but not a great throw. That LB did jump to snag it but it wasn't like he was jumping through the roof to get it. That ball needed another 2 feet to be safe. Clearly not a good night for him, I'd have to give him an F.

Simms looked solid. Yes, he went against 2nd team defense but also had 2nd team offense to work with so that's a wash. He chose his targets well, move around to buy time and threw the ball away when he had to. Simms gets a A-.The int's weren't the thing that worries me most about Orton.

The short to the right on every throw is what worries me the most.

Has there ever been a more predictable, boring QB in the NFL...than Orton?

I don't think he can get the ball down the field at all. Teams will stack the line to take the run away and Orton just doesn't have the talent to make them pay.

For a guy this limited in talent...they need to start getting Scheffler involved in the middle...to give him a safety blanket.

Anyone that would ever hint at the thought that we are better off with Orton than with Cutler....is a complete Moron.

Welcome back to the dink and dunk offense!

TheReverend
08-15-2009, 09:50 AM
In this offense, there isn't going to be a lot of deep passes Rev.

Randy Moss's record setting season says hi

24champ
08-15-2009, 10:02 AM
Randy Moss's record setting season says hi

McDaniels says hi.


"The unique part about that is I know a lot of people associate what we did in New England with the passing game, but we were sixth in the league in rushing this year," McDaniels said. "It's the unknown or missing piece that not many people know about or talk about. It's not the same each week. It won't be the same. It doesn't fall into a specific category like the West Coast."


This offense is designed to cater to the team's strength.

WolfpackGuy
08-15-2009, 10:04 AM
Kyle Orton throw deep?
Yeah, this offense will see a lot of long bombs...

mhgaffney
08-15-2009, 10:08 AM
All the weapons in the world won't help if Orton throws pick after pick.

24champ
08-15-2009, 10:13 AM
All the weapons in the world won't help if Orton throws pick after pick.

Your right, Orton actually works for the Mossad, he is Jewish and trying to single handily destroy the Broncos organization. I also have 5,000 footnotes to prove it.

Buy my book.

TheReverend
08-15-2009, 10:30 AM
McDaniels says hi.





This offense is designed to cater to the team's strength.

So the team's strength is to make the team as one dimensional as possible?

Sweet!

24champ
08-15-2009, 10:34 AM
So the team's strength is to make the team as one dimensional as possible?

Sweet!

http://i43.tinypic.com/ilf58h.jpg

WolfpackGuy
08-15-2009, 10:44 AM
Didn't the short, accurate, stay in the pocket passing game experiment already fail once in Denver from 1999-2002?

chawknz
08-15-2009, 10:47 AM
Silly to get your hopes up on a starting drive, but I did. That all soon changed, unfortunately!

Would be nice to see Simms get the start next week. McD was saying it's still anyone's game. Let's see more of what he's made of.

Rock Chalk
08-15-2009, 12:11 PM
And he's not throwing the entire playbook at Simms?

Dude, Simms look decent out there, but he also was playing against the 3rd and 4th stringers in most cases. The 3rd and 4th stringers of SAN FRANCISCO.

Simms may end up winning the starting job, but let's not over hype his play from that game either.

Lolad
08-15-2009, 12:29 PM
The int's weren't the thing that worries me most about Orton.

The short to the right on every throw is what worries me the most.

Has there ever been a more predictable, boring QB in the NFL...than Orton?

I don't think he can get the ball down the field at all. Teams will stack the line to take the run away and Orton just doesn't have the talent to make them pay.

For a guy this limited in talent...they need to start getting Scheffler involved in the middle...to give him a safety blanket.

Anyone that would ever hint at the thought that we are better off with Orton than with Cutler....is a complete Moron.

Welcome back to the dink and dunk offense!

i want to see the spread on where he usually throws his passes. If it's going to be short right every game then we are in trouble. With time to throw the ball you would think he would be looking all over the field.

lex
08-15-2009, 01:01 PM
Dude, Simms look decent out there, but he also was playing against the 3rd and 4th stringers in most cases. The 3rd and 4th stringers of SAN FRANCISCO.

Simms may end up winning the starting job, but let's not over hype his play from that game either.

And Simms is also playing with 3rd and 4th stringers. The line Simms was playing behind wasnt nearly as good as Ortons...and thats even with the first string line going against their first string defense.

Rock Chalk
08-15-2009, 01:05 PM
And Simms is also playing with 3rd and 4th stringers. The line Simms was playing behind wasnt nearly as good as Ortons...and thats even with the first string line going against their first string defense.

Whats that got to do with anything lex?

Simms had about equal protection so the line talent is a wash but the secondary talent amongst SF's backups was woefully worse and our lower tier recievers are pretty damn good. McKinley has impressed camp reporters AND coaches teh whole camp and he was out there playing. Putzier is a logn time veteran and never had a problem catching the ball or running routes (or even taking a hit).

Im not saying Simms wont end up being the starter, but I knew people would put too much stock into Simms play last night.

lex
08-15-2009, 01:35 PM
Whats that got to do with anything lex?

Simms had about equal protection so the line talent is a wash but the secondary talent amongst SF's backups was woefully worse and our lower tier recievers are pretty damn good. McKinley has impressed camp reporters AND coaches teh whole camp and he was out there playing. Putzier is a logn time veteran and never had a problem catching the ball or running routes (or even taking a hit).

Im not saying Simms wont end up being the starter, but I knew people would put too much stock into Simms play last night.

Our first string offensive line gave up barely a sack a game last year. Thats next to nothing. Last night, Orton had plenty of time. Our second string line is cobbled together with young guys and guys scratching to make an nfl roster. Our first string OLine is a more known commodity and it barely gave up a sack a game last year. Its silly to suggest our second stringers are on par with that.

Sodak
08-15-2009, 01:50 PM
Orton's throws looked weak, and his throws to the sidelines took FOREVER to get to the receiver.

I'm not impressed.

BABronco
08-15-2009, 02:02 PM
It's not that simple. He was impressing everyone until he made a mistake of a crappy throw into the endzone. Couple that with the fact McDaniels is one of the better QB coaches in the league, I am going to look for some improvement from this game to the next.

:spit::spit:

24champ
08-15-2009, 02:17 PM
:spit::spit:

What's wrong with that statement you bolded?

montrose
08-15-2009, 02:20 PM
I do think McDaniels will reel Orton in a bit and having Marshall out there should help too.

BABronco
08-15-2009, 02:56 PM
What's wrong with that statement you bolded? My mistake. My mind saw he is one of the better coaches in the nfl.
I take back the :spit::spit:

barryr
08-15-2009, 02:58 PM
Sometimes defensive players make good plays and Clements made a good one. That could be a reason why the 49ers gave him all that money. Just a thought.

Orton's 2nd pick looked like he expected Stokley to run a pattern in front of the DB, so threw the ball where he thought he would be. That can happen with a new system in the first preseason game no less.

The last pick was one where he just didn't either see the DB or expected the DB to stay in coverage on the receiver in front.

Every year teams do not show other teams all they are going to do, yet hysterical types always get upset if the team loses a meaningless preseason game.

If Orton does not play well in all of the preseason games, then I can see the concern. Then again, when Brister some years ago didn't perform well and Shanahan replaced him with Griese, I wonder how many of the "Orton sucks" crowd were in agreement with that move? Probably not many.

TerrElway
08-15-2009, 03:05 PM
the only thing that bothered me (other than the obvious...turnover) about the first 2 picks was that he clearly stared Graham and Stokers down the entire time...then on the third one he GROSSLY underthrew a wide open guy

I do agree with you though on what McD was doing, it was pretty clear when the 2nd half was more simplified

the other thing that I did not like was, on all 3 INT's, Orton had all day to throw

ah well, I am keeping the faith...no reason for me to be all Jim Armstrong yet

That was also the rap on Cutler on this here bastion of football wisdom we call the Orange Mane. "He stares down his receivers!" was the mantra forever. He would also often OVERthrow the open guy for a pick.

Same side of a different coin folks. Cutler just had that flashy big arm that would allow him to force one in to a tight spot from time to time. That same arm would lead him to force one in to a tight spot that he shouldn't have and it would get picked.

We all want the big arm with the high football IQ and good decision making but John Elway ain't walking out that tunnel.

24champ
08-15-2009, 03:08 PM
I heard from a friend of a friend that Orton was drinking at some of the SF bars the night before the game. Got plastered.


Wonder if that effected him for the game???

DenverBrit
08-15-2009, 03:13 PM
I heard from a friend of a friend that Orton was drinking at some of the SF bars the night before the game. Got plastered.


Wonder if that effected him for the game???

If true, yes!!

Was he getting sh*t faced in LoDo the night before the Invesco scrimmage?? ;D