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azbroncfan
08-14-2009, 11:59 PM
I realize it's a preseason game but it's apparent the run defense still sucks. Ron Fields is the man in the middle and that isn't a good thing. The career backup can't hold the point of attack and take care of his gap responsibilities. DJ well is still DJ and making a lot of postiive gain tackles. Pass rush was pretty weak other when the othe journeyman QB held on to the ball forever. I think it's going to be a long season guys lets hold on tight.

TheDave
08-15-2009, 12:02 AM
I actually saw promise in our defense... granted, with Orton as a backdrop anything looks good.

SureShot
08-15-2009, 12:06 AM
What is sad is we game planned for this game while the Niners treated it like the first preseason game. Loved the all out blitz though.

kmonty
08-15-2009, 12:08 AM
Wasn't thrilled. A lot of big runs, a lot of big passes. SF QBs went 14/18 and RBs averaged 4.5 yards per carry. No turnovers.

The four sacks are promising, but there is definitely room for improvement. Still plenty of time.

DBroncos4life
08-15-2009, 12:10 AM
we just need to play tough guys. I have read on here lots of times it doesn't matter if we win we just need to play tough.

boltaneer
08-15-2009, 12:14 AM
Wasn't impressed with your guys' pass rush despite the sacks. The two sacks on Hill were both blown blocks by their TE with the long dreads (Singletary is going to have fun yelling at that guy during film study) and Hill held on to the ball way too long on that second sack.

But I thought Denver's run defense looked good in the first quarter. Even though it wasn't Gore out there, that was definitely a surprise to me.

Florida_Bronco
08-15-2009, 12:19 AM
I realize it's a preseason game but it's apparent the run defense still sucks. Ron Fields is the man in the middle and that isn't a good thing. The career backup can't hold the point of attack and take care of his gap responsibilities. DJ well is still DJ and making a lot of postiive gain tackles. Pass rush was pretty weak other when the othe journeyman QB held on to the ball forever. I think it's going to be a long season guys lets hold on tight.

What game were you watching?

R8R H8R
08-15-2009, 12:22 AM
What is sad is we game planned for this game while the Niners treated it like the first preseason game. Loved the all out blitz though.

How do you know they didn't also game plan?

TheDave
08-15-2009, 12:22 AM
we just need to play tough guys. I have read on here lots of times it doesn't matter if we win we just need to play tough.

If i see the word tough on this board one more time I'm going to puke...


We're practicing with pads... makes us tough

were stretching longer than before ... 'cause tough players arr limber

were running wind sprints after practice... yeah that's right, were tough

we're playing our starters every minute of every preseason game... cause tough guys can't get injured.

Orton couldn't hold Cutlers jock... yeah, well, he's tough.

LongDongJohnson
08-15-2009, 12:24 AM
yeah, well, he's tough.

and thats all that matters.

SureShot
08-15-2009, 12:24 AM
If i see the word tough on this board one more time I'm going to puke...


We're practicing with pads... makes us tough

were stretching longer than before ... 'cause tough players arr limber

were running wind sprints after practice... yeah that's right, were tough

we're playing our starters every minute of every preseason game... cause tough guys can't get injured.

Orton couldn't hold Cutlers jock... yeah, well, he's tough.

TheDave never makes a poll because he is tough.

R8R H8R
08-15-2009, 12:24 AM
What game were you watching?

That's what I was thinking. I saw positives from every unit but the starting QB.

DBroncos4life
08-15-2009, 12:24 AM
If i see the word tough on this board one more time I'm going to puke...


We're practicing with pads... makes us tough

were stretching longer than before ... 'cause tough players arr limber

were running wind sprints after practice... yeah that's right, were tough

we're playing our starters every minute of every preseason game... cause tough guys can't get injured.

Orton couldn't hold Cutlers jock... yeah, well, he's tough.

look man youre missing the point winning games and going 8 and 8 means nothing if you don't win tough. If you win just one game but you do it with pride and its tough then you have do so much more then the team that won 8 games soft.

SureShot
08-15-2009, 12:25 AM
How do you know they didn't also game plan?

Well I can provide links that the Broncos game planned for this game can you do the same for the Niners?

easymobee
08-15-2009, 12:27 AM
I realize it's a preseason game but it's apparent the run defense still sucks. Ron Fields is the man in the middle and that isn't a good thing. The career backup can't hold the point of attack and take care of his gap responsibilities. DJ well is still DJ and making a lot of postiive gain tackles. Pass rush was pretty weak other when the othe journeyman QB held on to the ball forever. I think it's going to be a long season guys lets hold on tight.
STFU NOOB .... Frank Gore 0 yds 0.0 average.

Seriously.

The only TD given up by anyone who will actually play on a Sunday this year, was a 6yd drive.

Florida_Bronco
08-15-2009, 12:29 AM
That's what I was thinking. I saw positives from every unit but the starting QB.

I saw positive from Orton, picks aside, but that is for a different thread.

I was in the chat room for most of the first half and many of us were impressed with the first team defense. You'd have to be blind to not see a world of difference from last year. I think I witnessed our front 7 win more one on one battles in the first half than all of last year.

R8R H8R
08-15-2009, 12:29 AM
Well I can provide links that the Broncos game planned for this game can you do the same for the Niners?

Stick with me here, I did not say they did or did not. I asked you--How do you know they did not game plan? So, how do you know?

Rocket 7
08-15-2009, 12:29 AM
appreciation threads vs official suck threads. Don't know which is worse. Both are wrong to a degree.

DBroncos4life
08-15-2009, 12:30 AM
I saw positive from Orton, picks aside, but that is for a different thread.

I was in the chat room for most of the first half and many of us were impressed with the first team defense. You'd have to be blind to not see a world of difference from last year. I think I witnessed our front 7 win more one on one battles in the first half than all of last year.

the ones that hit the ground?

R8R H8R
08-15-2009, 12:37 AM
I saw positive from Orton, picks aside, but that is for a different thread.

I was in the chat room for most of the first half and many of us were impressed with the first team defense. You'd have to be blind to not see a world of difference from last year. I think I witnessed our front 7 win more one on one battles in the first half than all of last year.

Well, I can't defend Orton tonight, as much as I would like to, because 3 int's in 3 drives is indefensible. Hopefully he gets better next week.

But I do agree with you on the defense, and special teams for that matter. I saw a lot of positives that will probably only get better as the season goes on.

SureShot
08-15-2009, 12:37 AM
Stick with me here, I did not say they did or did not. I asked you--How do you know they did not game plan? So, how do you know?

Because teams don't game plan for their opponents in the first preseason game, well except for Wade Phillips and McD. In other words I'm saying they didn't prove me wrong.

Florida_Bronco
08-15-2009, 12:42 AM
But I do agree with you on the defense, and special teams for that matter. I saw a lot of positives that will probably only get better as the season goes on.

Exactly.

R8R H8R
08-15-2009, 12:53 AM
Because teams don't game plan for their opponents in the first preseason game, well except for Wade Phillips and McD. In other words I'm saying they didn't prove me wrong.

And you know that for a fact huh? I got a news-flash for you, every team in the league prepares for the other team in preseason.

The difference is to what degree they put into it. All we know about the Broncos is that they used a typical scouting team in practice to prepare for the 49'ers, but McD admitted he wouldn't put in a detailed game plan that he might use in a regular season game.

What we don't know is, to what degree the 49er's game-planned for us? And apparently, neither do you.

BabyTO
08-15-2009, 12:56 AM
Fields sucks balls. Chris Baker looked awesome he should be starting.

TheDave
08-15-2009, 12:58 AM
Fields sucks balls. Chris Baker looked awesome he should be starting.

If Baker is our starter were screwed.

DBroncos4life
08-15-2009, 12:59 AM
**** man Crabtree didn't if play against us. Nor did Gore or Bruce. Man I hope every team doesn't play its top three weapons vs us.

LongDongJohnson
08-15-2009, 01:00 AM
If Baker is our starter were screwed.

were screwed anyway so maybe we should just start him anyway.

SureShot
08-15-2009, 01:00 AM
And you know that for a fact huh? I got a news-flash for you, every team in the league prepares for the other team in preseason.

The difference is to what degree they put into it. All we know about the Broncos is that they used a typical scouting team in practice to prepare for the 49'ers, but McD admitted he wouldn't put in a detailed game plan that he might use in a regular season game.

What we don't know is, to what degree the 49er's game-planned for us? And apparently, neither do you.

Interesting a Hadicapping site had this to say about the Broncos yet nothing about the Niners.

"McDaniels has told his starters and draft picks to expect to "play deep" into tonight's game. Extremely rare for preseason, he has a full-fledged game plan and scouting report. He even cancelled practice to go over the scouting report and game plan."

http://www.lines-maker.com/2009/08/nfl-network-broncos-49ers-point-spread.html

TheDave
08-15-2009, 01:03 AM
were screwed anyway so maybe we should just start him anyway.

As much as I'm ripping on all the Orton Newlyweds... I'm hopping that we aren't screwed.

But starting a UDFA at NT would seal our fate.

Imagine what someone like Logan Mankins would do to this kid.

R8R H8R
08-15-2009, 01:08 AM
Interesting a Hadicapping site had this to say about the Broncos yet nothing about the Niners.

"McDaniels has told his starters and draft picks to expect to "play deep" into tonight's game. Extremely rare for preseason, he has a full-fledged game plan and scouting report. He even cancelled practice to go over the scouting report and game plan."

http://www.lines-maker.com/2009/08/nfl-network-broncos-49ers-point-spread.html

Well that settles it. A handicapping service says the Broncos have a full-fledged game plan, it must be gospel, just like their 67% winning percentage.

SureShot
08-15-2009, 01:12 AM
Well that settles it. A handicapping service says the Broncos have a full-fledged game plan, it must be gospel, just like their 67% winning percentage.

What the hell are you talking about? Don't you think a handicapping site would provide info on the Niners preparation if it was above the norm? If you can provide a link that reports the Niners game planning to the same level of the Broncos then I will retract my statement.

BabyTO
08-15-2009, 01:31 AM
If Baker is our starter were screwed.

He looked awesome. Not sure how that = we're screwed. And people need to stop with this UDFA crap. If the guy plays well put him on the field. Why does it make a difference what round we drafted him in, had we drafted him in the 1st round he would be starting right now and i don't get that part.

Looking around the net all those scouts say he's a 2nd round talent. So forget where we drafted this kid, he fell because of character issues not because he wasn't good enough.

TheDave
08-15-2009, 01:35 AM
He looked awesome. Not sure how that = we're screwed. And people need to stop with this UDFA crap. If the guy plays well put him on the field. Why does it make a difference what round we drafted him in, had we drafted him in the 1st round he would be starting right now and i don't get that part.

Looking around the net all those scouts say he's a 2nd round talent. So forget where we drafted this kid, he fell because of character issues not because he wasn't good enough.

Starting ANY rookie at NT = were screwed.

DT's have a very steep learning curve for a reason.

SureShot
08-15-2009, 01:37 AM
So forget where we drafted this kid, he fell because of character issues not because he wasn't good enough.

You'll have to forgive TheDave he's working on his toughness.

R8R H8R
08-15-2009, 01:42 AM
What the hell are you talking about? Don't you think a handicapping site would provide info on the Niners preparation if it was above the norm?

No, I don't. I don't believe a handicapping service has any more inside info than you, me, or the man in the moon. The quote they used about the starters playing "deep in the game" was straight out of the Denver Post. Apparently, "deep in the game" means the first half.

But full-fledged game plan is apparently made-up. This is in direct contradiction to what McD told the media the other day.

But if you believe them, and think they know something that nobody else knows, then knock yourself out and bet all your money based on their advice.


If you can provide a link that reports the Niners game planning to the same level of the Broncos then I will retract my statement.

Apparently, I have to slow down for you.

I never said the niner's game-planned us.

I only asked asked you, how do you know they didn't? So far, you can't provide any evidence, probably because there isn't any.

SureShot
08-15-2009, 01:44 AM
no, i don't. I don't believe a handicapping service has any more inside info than you, me, or the man in the moon. The quote they used about the starters playing "deep in the game" was straight out of the denver post. Apparently, "deep in the game" means the first half.

But full-fledged game plan is apparently made-up. This is in direct contradiction to what mcd told the media the other day.

But if you believe them, and think they know something that nobody else knows, then knock yourself out and bet all your money based on their advice.




Apparently, i have to slow down for you.

I never said the niner's game-planned us.

I only asked asked you, how do you know they didn't? So far, you can't provide any evidence, probably because there isn't any.

24651

R8R H8R
08-15-2009, 01:49 AM
24651

Likewise. :D

SonOfLe-loLang
08-15-2009, 04:26 AM
Seriously, what game were some of you watching? Yes, its the first preseason game, but the defense I saw was an aggressive one that made some plays. Do you guys recall our defense from last year? Really? Do you? Need I remind you of the wonderful 4-4 we started playing against Carolina? Or the sudden 3-4 we played against NE? Or the absolute inability to stop the chargers offense?

Granted im not expert on defensive football, but id say the signs from the D last night were VERY encouraging.

Now if Orton can get his head out of his ass, we might be ok. But lets give him some time.

Hopefully Knowshon is OK.

Punisher
08-15-2009, 07:07 AM
I'm calling Bull**** on this thread our Defense looked solid last night. I'm gonna say we finish top 15 this year

Gcver2ver3
08-15-2009, 07:15 AM
i don't get this thread at all...

what the heck were you all expecting?...the Ravens D?...

in our first preseason game of the year, with a new scheme and mostly new personnel, our defense had 4 sacks and was stout against the run at the key times...

the niners got some draw play type big runs that didn't mean much but our D showed promise....

our 1st unit got 3 sacks in the first half...we need to work on our 3rd and long defense but overall the defense is clearly showing strides...

broncogary
08-15-2009, 07:15 AM
Well that settles it. A handicapping service says the Broncos have a full-fledged game plan, it must be gospel, just like their 67% winning percentage.

And 80% on their Top Picks! ;D

Kaylore
08-15-2009, 07:20 AM
I thought we were better. Last year we would have lost by 20 at least.

Kaylore
08-15-2009, 07:24 AM
I'm calling Bull**** on this thread our Defense looked solid last night. I'm gonna say we finish top 15 this year

Yeah WTF, their starters had 3 points and some punts until we turned the ball over in our own endzone.

/stupid thread.

Lolad
08-15-2009, 07:24 AM
I saw some positives on Defense, I think besides the miss tackle by field on the long running play we did well with the 1st team Defense. Baker was pushing the pocket back and was started to draw double teams which is also positive. I think he might even be able to start later in the season

jhat01
08-15-2009, 07:27 AM
The defense looked much better last night...the yardage is deceiving, many of them were meaningless at the end of the half.

Lycan
08-15-2009, 07:35 AM
Everyone qualifies the sacks as the QB holding onto the ball to long, does anyone remember last year? QBs could take a nap in the backfield and get up and throw a TD. The fact that we are making plays we should make on defense seems like a big improvement to me.

broncogary
08-15-2009, 07:39 AM
Everyone qualifies the sacks as the QB holding onto the ball to long, does anyone remember last year? QBs could take a nap in the backfield and get up and throw a TD. The fact that we are making plays we should make on defense seems like a big improvement to me.

Agreed, better pressure and our CB's weren't maintaining their 10 yard cushion like last year.

TheReverend
08-15-2009, 08:23 AM
Yeah WTF, their starters had 3 points and some punts until we turned the ball over in our own endzone.

/stupid thread.

Starters? They rolled out Alex Smith after the first series...

Also, here's the opposing QBs stat line:

D. Huard 7/9 98 1 0
S. Hill 2/2 41 0 0
A. Smith 5/7 33 1 0

No turnovers and only 4 incomplete passes from the likes of Shaun Hill, Alex Smith and Damon Huard.

A composite QB rating of 143.519

They also rushed for over 130 and 5 ypc (NO Frank Gore)

This was vs a game-planned D

oubronco
08-15-2009, 08:46 AM
I saw positive from Orton, picks aside, but that is for a different thread.

I was in the chat room for most of the first half and many of us were impressed with the first team defense. You'd have to be blind to not see a world of difference from last year. I think I witnessed our front 7 win more one on one battles in the first half than all of last year.

first team Defense against first team 9ers Offense 9-0 advantage 9ers

cutthemdown
08-15-2009, 08:49 AM
I watched Fields and he played well.

broncogary
08-15-2009, 08:50 AM
Starters? They rolled out Alex Smith after the first series...

But he's got "Top pick of the draft" talent.

At least that's a phrase I heard around here before. :approve:

cutthemdown
08-15-2009, 08:51 AM
first team Defense against first team 9ers Offense 9-0 advantage 9ers

We had some problems on 3rd down in the secondary but the Dline played pretty good I thought for first game out.

Funny if this was Shanny team all we would hear is it's only preseason. Seems like a lot of you just caught in some sort of hating loop you can't get out of.

Broncos have a lot of work to do, probably a couple yrs worth. I am excited to watch it all come together.

azbroncfan
08-15-2009, 09:26 AM
Granted the D looked better than last year but so does the local highschool team. There were too many easy runs for SF last night and they picked up some 3rd and longs pretty easy. The deep in/curl routes were open all night. Glen Coffee and the other back ran all over the defense. This is the 49ers for sakes not the Colts. The D showed some improvement but they also showed they aren't going to be feared.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
08-15-2009, 09:43 AM
I disagree with the OP.


While there were mistakes, the front 7 looked surprisingly good for their first game in a new scheme. The OLBs were a little rough, but that was expected. Our D-line looked good, and Chris Baker as a reserve NT looked very promising. Champ got burned a couple times, we obviously missed Dawkins, but overall I was pleasantly surprised with the showing, though the final stats do not look great.

I doubt our run defense gets tested much next week against Seattle, whom has the worst rushing attack in the NFL, but our pass defense and pass rush should be front and center. I'd like to see our defense build off this decent initial showing.

cutthemdown
08-15-2009, 09:55 AM
Yeah I saw some linebacking issues but overall I didn't see the front 7 being pushed around as much as last yr.

Anyone who thought what Broncos defense had become could be fixed by 1st preseason game just plays to much madden football.

All the botched picks, all the lack of size, the lack of talent, just needs more then one offseason to fix.

Hopefully by sometime this yr Orton won't be throwing picks and we can really see what is going on with defense.

I still saw the ability for Broncos to move the ball so I'm not too worried yet.

Do I think trading Cutler was good for team? no I don't but Cutler wanted out. How it got to that point I guess no one will ever know for sure unless you just convince yourself you are all knowing and correct. There is a lot of that going around.

Orton actually threw ball decent, made some audibles and then completed pass. The end result though was bad. Hopefully they learned something and are right now probably working on getting better.

The fans? Well I guess about 50% just still want to groan about what has happened instead of just watching it play out and pulling for the team. Eventually I think you will tire of that and just start being a fan again.

Does that mean you can't be pissed at the QB for throwing 3 picks? hell no be pissed. Say it if you think teams sucks its all part of being a fan. But the whining about stuff like great and seattle has our pick and we have a midget CB is just lame. Give the kid a chance, give the kid a chance, they just may surprise you by the time season is done.

Newsflash Broncos have pretty much been nothing since Elway left. Get over thinking Broncos were this great team just because Shanny could squeeze out 10 wins instead of the crappy 8 he started to get at the end. Basically the difference between last yr and all the yrs since Elway retired were a couple of blown games that kept us from getting trounced in the playoffs.

There is a reason we got blown out in every playoff game save a few since Elway retired. The team just ain't been that good. Sure you can roll out the win loss record, its looks pretty, but we all saw the beatdown Broncos got in the end.

Broncos hopefully now are going to build a team that plays together, more physical, and then wins in the playoffs and goes to Superbowls.

TheReverend
08-15-2009, 09:58 AM
Serious question:

Did Ayers even play? I do NOT remember seeing 56 at all?

Popps
08-15-2009, 09:59 AM
Serious question:

Did Ayers even play? I do NOT remember seeing 56 at all?

He played a few plays early on. I need to watch again. Seems like I saw him get pressure one play, but was out of position on another.

Seemed like he wasn't in there long, though... oddly.

TheDave
08-15-2009, 10:01 AM
He played a few plays early on. I need to watch again. Seems like I saw him get pressure one play, but was out of position on another.

Seemed like he wasn't in there long, though... oddly.

Ayers looks lost at this point... I think it's going to take a little longer than we had hoped.

TheReverend
08-15-2009, 10:03 AM
He played a few plays early on. I need to watch again. Seems like I saw him get pressure one play, but was out of position on another.

Seemed like he wasn't in there long, though... oddly.

Thanks... I don't remember seeing him on the field at ALL, and I even remember Lee Robinson in some action early on...

DBroncos4life
08-15-2009, 10:04 AM
I watched it again this time without beer and the DLine was getting pushed around early.

TheReverend
08-15-2009, 10:06 AM
I watched it again this time without beer and the DLine was getting pushed around early.

Yes it was. Or this doesn't happen.

Reposting again for those that think "Our defense looked way better!"

Starters? They rolled out Alex Smith after the first series...

Also, here's the opposing QBs stat line:

D. Huard 7/9 98 1 0
S. Hill 2/2 41 0 0
A. Smith 5/7 33 1 0

No turnovers and only 4 incomplete passes from the likes of Shaun Hill, Alex Smith and Damon Huard.

A composite QB rating of 143.519

They also rushed for over 130 and 5 ypc (NO Frank Gore)

This was vs a game-planned D

azbroncfan
08-15-2009, 10:06 AM
I watched it again this time without beer and the DLine was getting pushed around early.

That's what I saw last night. There was a couple runs right at Fields that resulted in good gains. The Gap control was similar to last year. It's to be expected with the defensive line personel that was trotted out there. I thought Baker looked pretty good in his debut and showed that he can possibly develope into a good player. I like the new scheme though and have always been a 3-4 fan.

azbroncfan
08-15-2009, 10:09 AM
Yes it was. Or this doesn't happen.

Reposting again for those that think "Our defense looked way better!"

Starters? They rolled out Alex Smith after the first series...

Also, here's the opposing QBs stat line:

D. Huard 7/9 98 1 0
S. Hill 2/2 41 0 0
A. Smith 5/7 33 1 0

No turnovers and only 4 incomplete passes from the likes of Shaun Hill, Alex Smith and Damon Huard.

A composite QB rating of 143.519

They also rushed for over 130 and 5 ypc (NO Frank Gore)

This was vs a game-planned D

Yeah Rev I'm an idiot and moron for posting this thread. That was the great 49er offense led by the ugliest throwing motion ever Hill and a big time first round pick in Smith(I'm a U of U homer too). The run D was bad and so was the nickle D on 3rd and longs.

TheDave
08-15-2009, 10:13 AM
Starters? They rolled out Alex Smith after the first series...

Also, here's the opposing QBs stat line:

D. Huard 7/9 98 1 0
S. Hill 2/2 41 0 0
A. Smith 5/7 33 1 0

No turnovers and only 4 incomplete passes from the likes of Shaun Hill, Alex Smith and Damon Huard.

A composite QB rating of 143.519

They also rushed for over 130 and 5 ypc (NO Frank Gore)

This was vs a game-planned D

hey, i just said they looked better against the backdrop of Orton. ;D

NFLBRONCO
08-15-2009, 10:16 AM
I don't see how and fan could expect leaps and bounds better D in one offseason. Esp a D that sucked as bad as ours did last year.Unless we could've signed five new top tier FA's for front 7 we are in a few seasons rebuild.

TheReverend
08-15-2009, 10:22 AM
Yeah Rev I'm an idiot and moron for posting this thread. That was the great 49er offense led by the ugliest throwing motion ever Hill and a big time first round pick in Smith(I'm a U of U homer too). The run D was bad and so was the nickle D on 3rd and longs.

You're absolutely correct. As of last night's performance, we clearly weren't ready for a 3-4 and should've run the hybrid I suggested (yes, I'm awesome). The most disconcerting part was the actual involvement of blitzing against horrid QBs for little effect.

One funny part: SF got a little pissed about the blitzing, and showed blitz on a play (only to have the LBs drop back into coverage after the snap) and Orton still freaked like a girl and almost got picked. I had a very good laugh at that one, followed by a long cry into a bottle of tequila.

Tombstone RJ
08-15-2009, 10:22 AM
Yes it was. Or this doesn't happen.

Reposting again for those that think "Our defense looked way better!"

Starters? They rolled out Alex Smith after the first series...

Also, here's the opposing QBs stat line:

D. Huard 7/9 98 1 0
S. Hill 2/2 41 0 0
A. Smith 5/7 33 1 0

No turnovers and only 4 incomplete passes from the likes of Shaun Hill, Alex Smith and Damon Huard.

A composite QB rating of 143.519

They also rushed for over 130 and 5 ypc (NO Frank Gore)

This was vs a game-planned D

And yet, the Broncos only lost by 1 point... strange. You'd think the Niners would have won by 30 points with those stats and 3 INTs and yet they only won by one measily point...

TheReverend
08-15-2009, 10:29 AM
And yet, the Broncos only lost by 1 point... strange. You'd think the Niners would have won by 30 points with those stats and 3 INTs and yet they only won by one measily point...

You'd think you think we were playing a good football team

Tombstone RJ
08-15-2009, 10:32 AM
You'd think you think we were playing a good football team

Now you know how good the Niners are gonna be too? Damn, I guess you know everything.

Please tell me how many games the Niners are going to win this season.

McDman
08-15-2009, 10:32 AM
I saw the O-line getting to our linebackers pretty easily. That's not good.

azbroncfan
08-15-2009, 10:38 AM
Please tell me how many games the Niners are going to win this season.

Vegas is saying 7. I would bet the under because I think they win 6 games or less.

Tombstone RJ
08-15-2009, 10:40 AM
Vegas is saying 7. I would bet the under because I think they win 6 games or less.

Then put your money down and tell us how you do.

TheReverend
08-15-2009, 10:43 AM
Now you know how good the Niners are gonna be too? Damn, I guess you know everything.

Please tell me how many games the Niners are going to win this season.

You're right. They're clearly the class of the NFC

azbroncfan
08-15-2009, 10:45 AM
Then put your money down and tell us how you do.

I actually think that is a good bet because the niners would have to win 8 to lose. I think that Seattle will be much better and probably sweep them if Matt H is healthy and AZ should sweep them too if Warner doesn't get hurt. I would take it.

Florida_Bronco
08-15-2009, 01:30 PM
Yeah WTF, their starters had 3 points and some punts until we turned the ball over in our own endzone.

/stupid thread.

Exactly.

listopencil
08-15-2009, 01:34 PM
I saw positive from Orton, picks aside, but that is for a different thread.

I was in the chat room for most of the first half and many of us were impressed with the first team defense. You'd have to be blind to not see a world of difference from last year. I think I witnessed our front 7 win more one on one battles in the first half than all of last year.

Yep. Definite improvement. Our secondary looked weak though.

NYBronco
08-16-2009, 05:54 PM
Where was Ayers?

Paladin
08-16-2009, 06:25 PM
and thats all that matters.

Just tough it out.....

Rock Chalk
08-16-2009, 06:34 PM
Vegas is saying 7. I would bet the under because I think they win 6 games or less.

You can talk a big game but I bet you dont have the balls to put down 5 K on it right now.

I got 5 K says we win more than 6 games.

FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS.

Put your ****ing money where your big fat ****ing mouth is big shot.

azbroncfan
08-16-2009, 08:09 PM
You can talk a big game but I bet you dont have the balls to put down 5 K on it right now.

I got 5 K says we win more than 6 games.

FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS.

Put your ****ing money where your big fat ****ing mouth is big shot.

Hey F&$K you you mouthy pr#ck. Go learn and reading comprehension you meth head. I wasn't talking about Denver I was talking about San Fran. Go suck on a glass D#CK until you can learn to read.

TheReverend
08-16-2009, 08:25 PM
Hey F&$K you you mouthy pr#ck. Go learn and reading comprehension you meth head. I wasn't talking about Denver I was talking about San Fran. Go suck on a glass D#CK until you can learn to read.

Angry guntoting,meateating AMERICAN

:thumbsup:

Inkana7
08-16-2009, 08:59 PM
Fields sucks balls. Chris Baker looked awesome he should be starting.

You didn't even watch the game if this is the conclusion you came to. Ron looked good.

R8R H8R
09-29-2009, 10:11 PM
Bump; because going back and reading some of these posts after one pre-season game is hilarious. ROFL!

watermock
09-29-2009, 10:39 PM
A win against Dallas on national TV, would be epic, even for mock.

Dallas is banged up with a lame duck coach and has no true wideouts.

And the line reprents that.

Broncos -3. WOW.

thinkin101
09-29-2009, 10:41 PM
I see entirely too much promise in this D though I am still playing the wait and see approach with the meat of our schedule coming up. We will now be tested and see what we are truly made of.

ScottXray
09-29-2009, 10:41 PM
Bump; because going back and reading some of these posts after one pre-season game is hilarious. ROFL!

yeah ,especially three weeks in.

SF beat AZ and Seattle, and took Minn down to the wire.

I thought that they would do well this year (win their division), and so far they are.

Broncos at 3-0 is a pleasant slight surprise,,, especially their D which
looked so Horrible, to some, that game.

watermock
09-29-2009, 10:48 PM
Orton AND the D looked bad.

Now to wake up Eddie.

R8R H8R
09-29-2009, 10:58 PM
yeah ,especially three weeks in.

SF beat AZ and Seattle, and took Minn down to the wire.

I thought that they would do well this year (win their division), and so far they are.

Broncos at 3-0 is a pleasant slight surprise,,, especially their D which
looked so Horrible, to some, that game.

Not me. While in no way would I have predicted the #1 defense in the league at this point, I did see an aggressiveness in the D that I hadn't seen in many years.

cutthemdown
09-29-2009, 11:13 PM
I watched Fields and he played well.

man you really know your stuff. Hilarious!

cutthemdown
09-29-2009, 11:14 PM
Not sure why people were down on fields in preseason. I would watch him and never once did I see him lose a 1 on 1 battle. When doubled he seemed to hold his own.

He's not dominant but he does seem able to clog the middle and not get pushed around. For Broncos that is a huge step up inside.

watermock
09-29-2009, 11:22 PM
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R8R H8R
09-29-2009, 11:28 PM
Not sure why people were down on fields in preseason. I would watch him and never once did I see him lose a 1 on 1 battle. When doubled he seemed to hold his own.

He's not dominant but he does seem able to clog the middle and not get pushed around. For Broncos that is a huge step up inside.

Because people see what they want to see. Long held biases do funny things to your perception.

broncocalijohn
09-29-2009, 11:42 PM
A win against Dallas on national TV, would be epic, even for mock.

Dallas is banged up with a lame duck coach and has no true wideouts.

And the line reprents that.

Broncos -3. WOW.

dont use this as an excuse mock for still not believing in the team or coach. I would respect a "wait until".... more than those excuses that you listed. We win, we are good. End it.

broncocalijohn
09-29-2009, 11:43 PM
I see entirely too much promise in this D though I am still playing the wait and see approach with the meat of our schedule coming up. We will now be tested and see what we are truly made of.

since you came from the broncos board, did you like the bad language and the personal rips on each other? Those would be banable at BM.

cutthemdown
09-30-2009, 12:23 AM
Broncos facing some big tests now. They will probably drop some games. Not because they haven't came a long way, but because Dallas, NE, Chargers etc are good teams.

I won't judge them on just winning or losing in this stretch.

I'm looking to see them compete and play hard. Not get pushed around and embarassed.

If they keep winning against this schedule them I might have to start thinking bigger.

Broncos may not be as far along as 3-0 indicates. But at this point how much better could it be? No reason to start saying we are fixed and are a contender, but plenty to be excited about.

HAT
09-30-2009, 12:47 AM
A win against Dallas on national TV, would be epic, even for mock.

Dallas is banged up with a lame duck coach and has no true wideouts.

And the line reprents that.

Broncos -3. WOW.

Broncos are getting 3 Mock.

Perfect number actually. Early (and usually, sharper) money has come in on Denver. Went from Dallas -3 -120 to -3 +100.

Joe Pub will start hitting Dallas hard this weekend and they won't move to -3.5 or 4 either. Books will take public $ all day at -3 knowing that Denver +3.5 will expose them to sharp action.

Bodes well for Denver that the public consesus percentages will be well over 70% Dallas and the books won't budge off of 3. :thumbs:

Florida_Bronco
09-30-2009, 01:13 AM
I'm so glad this thread got bumped.

Meck77
09-30-2009, 04:12 AM
Ok newbie football fans. Say it and remember it. PRESEASON doesn't matter. Preseason doesn't matter.

Broncomutt
09-30-2009, 05:36 AM
The best thing about our defense is that Shanny and Slowick don't have their hands on it. Gives me hope, not proof but hope, that they won't fade as the season progresses.

TheDave
09-30-2009, 06:18 AM
Ok newbie football fans. Say it and remember it. PRESEASON doesn't matter. Preseason doesn't matter.

Neither does 3-0 starts...

Signed,

The 2008 Denver Broncos

;D

The Joker
09-30-2009, 06:39 AM
Neither does 3-0 starts...

Signed,

The 2008 Denver Broncos

;D

http://myanigamer.com/file/pic/gallery/880_view.jpg

Dukes
09-30-2009, 06:40 AM
Neither does 3-0 starts...

Signed,

The 2008 Denver Broncos

;D

:rofl: Good thing the old regime was shown the door then.

TheDave
09-30-2009, 06:50 AM
:rofl: Good thing the old regime was shown the door then.

You might be right... the meat of the schedule starts now.

Old Dude
09-30-2009, 07:30 AM
Fins miss Renaldo Hill:

http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thedailydolphin/2009/09/30/miami-dolphins-talking-points-dolphins-miss-renaldo-hill/

And, reviewing some of the tapes from that past couple of games, Vinnie is looking pretty solid in this D as well. Add in Goodman, and I think the rest of the AFC East should be thanking Denver for cleaning the fish.

Bronco Warrior
09-30-2009, 09:31 AM
Dear Original Poster: How's that Crow taste??

HAT
09-30-2009, 09:50 AM
Bump; because going back and reading some of these posts after one pre-season game is hilarious. ROFL!

The search function is going to get quite the workout one way or another over the next month.....

Broncos good: You will see bumps galore from January to Auguast.

Broncos bad: You will see bumps galore from September.

^5

DenverBrit
09-30-2009, 10:07 AM
A win against Dallas on national TV, would be epic, even for mock.

Dallas is banged up with a lame duck coach and has no true wideouts.

And the line reprents that.

Broncos -3. WOW.

Getting an early jump if Denver wins? ...."but Dallas aren't that good". ;D

...as for wideouts.....Roy Williams, Jason Witten and Patrick Crayton, are not a bad trio if Romo would get them the ball..

Meck77
09-30-2009, 10:32 AM
Neither does 3-0 starts...

Signed,

The 2008 Denver Broncos

;D

The bad mojo left with that pussy you called a QB.

TheDave
09-30-2009, 10:45 AM
The bad mojo left with that p***Y you called a QB.

What ever you say boss... :thumbs:

azbroncfan
09-30-2009, 01:08 PM
Dear Original Poster: How's that Crow taste??

It tastes pretty good but let's review this after Denver plays some real competition. I am glad I am eating crow since it means the defense is improved quite a bit. I was three sheets to the wind when I made this thread. I have no problem showing up and taking what I deserve though.

I didn't forget about the 2006 team either which showed up early on Defense like this years team and we all know how that turned out. The real test will be after week 4 when there is plenty of video for teams to pick through and determine weaknesses. Time will tell.

Bronco Warrior
09-30-2009, 03:39 PM
http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=104&pictureid=865

Here's where you go to get seconds..lol!

listopencil
09-30-2009, 04:21 PM
Yep. Definite improvement. Our secondary looked weak though.

Glad they got that **** fixed.

Br0nc0Buster
09-30-2009, 04:31 PM
Here is just another example of why it is retarded to use preseason as some sort of gauge for how the regular season will work out

There are some things that you can look for, but people were flipping out over the most ridiculous stuff

"we ran too many screens", etc...

listopencil
09-30-2009, 04:50 PM
Here is just another example of why it is retarded to use preseason as some sort of gauge for how the regular season will work out

There are some things that you can look for, but people were flipping out over the most ridiculous stuff

"we ran too many screens", etc...

They did run too many screens, and the Offense did look like **** for the first game and a half of the season.

Br0nc0Buster
09-30-2009, 05:41 PM
They did run too many screens, and the Offense did look like **** for the first game and a half of the season.

the point being preseason is a time used for running specific things, not to win the game

People were throwing a hissy fit at what kind of plays we were running against backups

Our offense struggled out of the gate because it is a new system with new players, not because we ran too many screens, or because Kyle Orton sucked in preseason

cutthemdown
09-30-2009, 05:47 PM
Orton won't be 100% until the glove is off. I'm hoping this week but I think his injury a lot worst them people think. He's probably really winning over his teammates playing with an open dislocation.

You think Kuper was going to take another week off when his QB is out there playing hurt? Hell know this is what they call leadership. Playing hurt is a cornerstone of the NFL. Some guys nut up and get it done, other don't. Players follow the tough guys period.

misturanderson
09-30-2009, 06:44 PM
It tastes pretty good but let's review this after Denver plays some real competition. I am glad I am eating crow since it means the defense is improved quite a bit. I was three sheets to the wind when I made this thread. I have no problem showing up and taking what I deserve though.

I didn't forget about the 2006 team either which showed up early on Defense like this years team and we all know how that turned out. The real test will be after week 4 when there is plenty of video for teams to pick through and determine weaknesses. Time will tell.

With Cutler being put in due to Plummer's sub-par play, which split the locker room and ruined our chemistry. Then Wilson went down and our defense went down with him. We ended up losing a few games we shouldn't have due to pick-sixes, including the last game of the season to a pitiful 49ers team that would have guaranteed us a playoff spot had we won.

azbroncfan
09-30-2009, 06:54 PM
With Cutler being put in due to Plummer's sub-par play, which split the locker room and ruined our chemistry. Then Wilson went down and our defense went down with him. We ended up losing a few games we shouldn't have due to pick-sixes, including the last game of the season to a pitiful 49ers team that would have guaranteed us a playoff spot had we won.

I was talking about how the defense started on record setting pace and was a paper tiger and was mearly average by the end of the year. I wasn't talking about the win/loss record just how everyone thought Denver had an elite D when in reality they were overachievers early on before offenses had game tape on the weaknesses.

listopencil
09-30-2009, 10:39 PM
I was talking about how the defense started on record setting pace and was a paper tiger and was mearly average by the end of the year. I wasn't talking about the win/loss record just how everyone thought Denver had an elite D when in reality they were overachievers early on before offenses had game tape on the weaknesses.

How many Safeties did we lose that year? How many guys on D all together missed time from injuries because they spent all God damned day on the field? IIRC, this is when Coyer was slapping together a D with spit, bailing wire and duct tape that was blown apart by the Colts in the playoffs.

rastaman
10-01-2009, 03:20 AM
:rofl: Good thing the old regime was shown the door then.

Ain't it GREAT! some of the players Shanny drafted on Defense are playing really outstanding....i.e Mr. Doooooomerville!:giggle:

Or how about that GREAT Offensive Line that Shanny drafted and put together that gives CEMENT SHOES Orton the luxury (so far) to throw away 5-6 passes every game! Thanks coach Shanny for drafting Clady to protect Orton's blind side.

I'm sure "Buckhalter and Moreno" sure love playing and running behind that Great Offensive Line that Shanny developed and drafted as well.

Yeah....so much for showing the Old Regime the door!:rofl:

rastaman
10-01-2009, 03:25 AM
The bad mojo left with that p***Y you called a QB.

Screw the Mojo Bull Shiat....it doesn't win games....period! Performing on the field wins games at the NFL level.

Mojo only applies at the College level. :thumbs:

rastaman
10-01-2009, 03:31 AM
I was talking about how the defense started on record setting pace and was a paper tiger and was mearly average by the end of the year. I wasn't talking about the win/loss record just how everyone thought Denver had an elite D when in reality they were overachievers early on before offenses had game tape on the weaknesses.

Actually, Coyer's defenses of 05 and 06 was devised to be most efficient and effective while playing along side an offense that was capable of putting up 30 plus points per game. Coyer's blitzing schemes was devised to go up against teams that were trying to come from behind and had no other choice but to pass the ball. And Coyer's Defense was devised to play along side an offense that ran the ball effective enough to take time off the clock and allowed his defense to rest and to be out on the field getting worn down.

INbronco
10-01-2009, 05:17 AM
They did run too many screens, and the Offense did look like **** for the first game and a half of the season.
ROFL! Did it ever occur to you that MCD did that because screens are hard to get right and need a lot of practice? How many NFL teams have we seen try to run screens and **** them up something terrible? Denver used to do that under Shanny and only a few teams get them really right.

BroncoInferno
10-01-2009, 10:21 AM
Neither does 3-0 starts...

Signed,

The 2008 Denver Broncos

;D

True. However, with the 2008 3-0 team there were signs of the trouble to come. We were turning the ball over too much on offense and the defense could not stop anybody or force any turnovers sans the Raiders in the opener. Bad defense and turnovers typically lead to inconsistency, which is exactly what we saw for the rest of the season. This 3-0 team has the right formula for consistent success: tough defense, running the ball often and effectively, forcing turnovers on D and not turning it over on offense. If we can maintain that formula, there is not a team on the schedule we can't beat. We will lose a few of course, but I think playing the type of football we are right now we will win more than we lose.

Dukes
10-01-2009, 10:41 AM
Ain't it GREAT! some of the players Shanny drafted on Defense are playing really outstanding....i.e Mr. Doooooomerville!:giggle:

Or how about that GREAT Offensive Line that Shanny drafted and put together that gives CEMENT SHOES Orton the luxury (so far) to throw away 5-6 passes every game! Thanks coach Shanny for drafting Clady to protect Orton's blind side.

I'm sure "Buckhalter and Moreno" sure love playing and running behind that Great Offensive Line that Shanny developed and drafted as well.

Yeah....so much for showing the Old Regime the door!:rofl:

Having a discussion with you is pointless. So i'll just reply with whatever you say Rasta.

BroncoInferno
10-01-2009, 10:45 AM
Ain't it GREAT! some of the players Shanny drafted on Defense are playing really outstanding....i.e Mr. Doooooomerville!:giggle:

There are only three Shanny holdovers still starting on the defense...Bailey, Dumervil, and DJ. That does not say much for his track record at picking and developing defensive talent.

baja
10-01-2009, 10:50 AM
There are only three Shanny holdovers still starting on the defense...Bailey, Dumervil, and DJ. That does not say much for his track record at picking and developing defensive talent.

Wow I hadn't realized that. That is an amazing stat. Another amazing stat is the other starters from 08 are almost all out of the league.

Beantown Bronco
10-01-2009, 10:59 AM
There are only three Shanny holdovers still starting on the defense...Bailey, Dumervil, and DJ. That does not say much for his track record at picking and developing defensive talent.

That stat conveniently ignores a lot of good players that either got traded away, let go in FA, or retired.....guys like Al Wilson, Trevor Pryce, Bertrand Berry, Reggie Hayward and Dominique Foxworth. Don't get me wrong. It's clear he had a lot of whiffs in his day. But there are currently more than just 3 NFL starters in the league that played defense for Denver under Shanny's regime.

outdoor_miner
10-01-2009, 11:01 AM
Fins miss Renaldo Hill:

http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thedailydolphin/2009/09/30/miami-dolphins-talking-points-dolphins-miss-renaldo-hill/

And, reviewing some of the tapes from that past couple of games, Vinnie is looking pretty solid in this D as well. Add in Goodman, and I think the rest of the AFC East should be thanking Denver for cleaning the fish.

Thanks for posting this... It was a good find. Frankly, I'm surprised that they're missing Hill more than Goodman (to my untrained eyes, Goodman looks like a real player - just very fluid and natural in coverage), but I guess that's due to Wilson sucking so bad.

It's amazing how all these pickups are working out. Obviously - it's super early, and we can still go to hell in a handbasket, but it is tough to picture the D falling apart. They look fast, aggressive, and smart. In the Cleveland and Oakland games, their offenses seriously looked like they had nowhere to go. It was an absolute clinic by the defense. I know those are 2 bad offenses, but they seriously did absolutely nothing. Nothing. It's been awhile since I've seen that kind of domination. Even with the start in 2006, I remember thinking it was a bit of a mirage. I'm not seeing that this year. But, I definitely could be wrong. We'll definitely see what they are all about these next few games.

outdoor_miner
10-01-2009, 11:05 AM
Orton won't be 100% until the glove is off. I'm hoping this week but I think his injury a lot worst them people think. He's probably really winning over his teammates playing with an open dislocation.

You think Kuper was going to take another week off when his QB is out there playing hurt? Hell know this is what they call leadership. Playing hurt is a cornerstone of the NFL. Some guys nut up and get it done, other don't. Players follow the tough guys period.

It's too bad this post is buried in a thread about the D, cuz I think it's an extremely interesting topic. I'd start a new thread, but it's a little too early...

BUT - If (if if if if) the Broncos keep winning, I will say that Orton's toughness really set the tone. Nobody thought he would be able to play through that injury. We had doctors, media, fans, etc asking how in the hell a guy can play after suffering that type of injury, and Orton came out and gutted through it. Sure, he looked like ass in the Cinci game, but it showed balls that he played through it. Hell - he's still wearing the glove. I really respect it. Imagine how his teammates feel.

BroncoInferno
10-01-2009, 11:14 AM
That stat conveniently ignores a lot of good players that either got traded away, let go in FA, or retired.....guys like Al Wilson, Trevor Pryce, Bertrand Berry, Reggie Hayward and Dominique Foxworth. Don't get me wrong. It's clear he had a lot of whiffs in his day. But there are currently more than just 3 NFL starters in the league that played defense for Denver under Shanny's regime.

I am talking about holdovers from the 2008 team. That is clearly what I was referring to. I don't think three holdovers says much about his defensive personnel decisions of recent times. Do you think Shanny did a good job of drafting, signing, and coaching defensive talent the last several seasons of his tenure?

azbroncfan
10-03-2009, 01:59 PM
How many Safeties did we lose that year? How many guys on D all together missed time from injuries because they spent all God damned day on the field? IIRC, this is when Coyer was slapping together a D with spit, bailing wire and duct tape that was blown apart by the Colts in the playoffs.

Denver didn't make the playoffs that year. Okay back to the thread and I have time now to make a valid point. Now the name of the thread is inaccurate because I believe the Defense is much better and only could go up from the garbage of the last couple years. With that being said we don't really know how good this defense really is. Teams have just started the collection of film together on Denver's new D and will find ways to exploit it and we don't know how the D will adjust yet. It's very similar to how the past two years the offense looked great first few weeks until teams got enough film to gameplan the weaknesses. Denver hasn't faced any real good Offenses yet other than Cincinatti which was still rusty without Palmer all preseason. I need to see this Defense perform against some balanced offenses.

The safeties are 100X better than the crap Shanny marched out there last year along with the LB's. Dawkin's leadership is having a big effect. The DL is playing pretty well but I still have some concerns about the pass rush. Dumervil has played at a high level but like his past years he has beat up on subpar offensive linemen. I need to see him have a big game in a big game when Denver needs it against some better competition. The new position fits him much better and should keep him from getting worn down late in the year.

It sure is nice to see some positives on the defensive side of the ball but I am still going to throw caution into the wind until after the next few weeks against some good quality teams.

listopencil
10-03-2009, 02:06 PM
ROFL! Did it ever occur to you that MCD did that because screens are hard to get right and need a lot of practice? How many NFL teams have we seen try to run screens and **** them up something terrible? Denver used to do that under Shanny and only a few teams get them really right.

Of course it did, they still ran too many of them.

listopencil
10-03-2009, 02:12 PM
Denver didn't make the playoffs that year.


Yep, you're right. I got it confused with a different season. I'm still bitter over the firing of Larry Coyer.

listopencil
10-03-2009, 02:15 PM
The DL is playing pretty well but I still have some concerns about the pass rush. Dumervil has played at a high level but like his past years he has beat up on subpar offensive linemen. I need to see him have a big game in a big game when Denver needs it against some better competition. The new position fits him much better and should keep him from getting worn down late in the year.



I'm hoping that Ayers comes along and that they will benefit more from being on the field at the same time. But yeah, still in wait-and-see mode.

maher_tyler
10-03-2009, 02:29 PM
I'm hoping that Ayers comes along and that they will benefit more from being on the field at the same time. But yeah, still in wait-and-see mode.

Yea, we need someone to step it up and get some presure on the QB or teams will just slide their protection to Doom's side!

azbroncfan
11-16-2009, 03:08 PM
It tastes pretty good but let's review this after Denver plays some real competition. I am glad I am eating crow since it means the defense is improved quite a bit. I was three sheets to the wind when I made this thread. I have no problem showing up and taking what I deserve though.

I didn't forget about the 2006 team either which showed up early on Defense like this years team and we all know how that turned out. The real test will be after week 4 when there is plenty of video for teams to pick through and determine weaknesses. Time will tell.

I am surprised noone bump this thread talking giving me ****?

azbroncfan
11-25-2009, 02:06 PM
Bump; because going back and reading some of these posts after one pre-season game is hilarious.
I'm so glad this thread got bumped.
Funny that it wasn't that far off? You guys are quick to bump threads talking crap but never really go back and say whoops I jumped the gun too. Preseason may not matter in wins and losses but it gives you a decent idea of what kind of talent you had. Now the defense doesn't suck but it isn't a top notch one either. As Med pointed out in his other thread the scheme has been figured out and teams are exploiting lack of talent in front 7.

watermock
11-25-2009, 02:14 PM
Anyone know if Merryman got fined for the cheap shot on Neckbeard's ankle?