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View Full Version : What will qualify this season as a success?


Houshyamama
08-13-2009, 12:37 PM
Vote or Die

Rock Chalk
08-13-2009, 12:38 PM
IMprovement on defense and special teams.

Houshyamama
08-13-2009, 12:40 PM
IMprovement on defense and special teams.

Yeah, same here but that didn't really fit into my poll

Hotrod
08-13-2009, 12:40 PM
IMprovement on defense and special teams.

Agree give me improvement from week 1 -17 and I give a damn about the record.

Dagmar
08-13-2009, 12:50 PM
IMprovement on defense and special teams.

Yup. I agreed with this so voted for everything to be fair. :strong:

Houshyamama
08-13-2009, 12:50 PM
Yup. I agreed with this so voted for everything to be fair. :strong:

You sir, can be replaced.

RhymesayersDU
08-13-2009, 12:52 PM
Over 5 wins will be a wild success.


Anybody thinking we'll do any better is delusional.

Taco John
08-13-2009, 12:54 PM
I don't buy the "i don't care about the record" rhetoric. If improvement doesn't translate into being better than 8-8 this season and making the playoffs, then it's not much of a standard.

Rabb
08-13-2009, 12:57 PM
I voted 8-8

when you give up a talented QB and completely revamp a defense that was downright dreadful to start out with, at least matching last year will be a success in my mind

now, if we go 8-8 in the same glorious die in a dumpster fire fashion to close the year out as last year...then I will cut myself

kamakazi_kal
08-13-2009, 12:57 PM
Over 5 wins will be a wild success.


Anybody thinking we'll do any better is delusional.

According to the Ortonites we should be better then last year, so I'd say worse then 8-8 is a fail.

Hotrod
08-13-2009, 12:58 PM
I don't buy the "i don't care about the record" rhetoric. If improvement doesn't translate into being better than 8-8 this season and making the playoffs, then it's not much of a standard.

I disagree this year. You cant judge the improvement of last years team to this years team. A new HC new starting QB and new DC new OC. Add in a bitch of a schedule and IMHO all you can hope for is to see this team making strides towards becoming a threat to make a run at the SB in a year or 2.

Houshyamama
08-13-2009, 01:01 PM
I disagree this year. You cant judge the improvement of last years team to this years team. A new HC new starting QB and new DC new OC. Add in a b**** of a schedule and IMHO all you can hope for is to see this team making strides towards becoming a threat to make a run at the SB in a year or 2.

McDonalds has a 'win now' vision as evidenced by the signing of Dawkins and what he reportedly said to bring him in. As a fan of this team I'll never judge anything less than making the playoffs a successful season. I won't be any less of a fan if they don't, but as a franchise we need to set the bar high IMO.

Hotrod
08-13-2009, 01:03 PM
McDonalds has a 'win now' vision as evidenced by the signing of Dawkins and what he reportedly said to bring him in. As a fan of this team I'll never judge anything less than making the playoffs a successful season. I won't be any less of a fan if they don't, but as a franchise we need to set the bar high IMO.

I dont argue this but I just dont see the playoffs this year as a reality.

Rock Chalk
08-13-2009, 01:03 PM
I don't buy the "i don't care about the record" rhetoric. If improvement doesn't translate into being better than 8-8 this season and making the playoffs, then it's not much of a standard.

Really?

New system.
New Coach.
New QB.
New Defensive Coaches.
New Defense period.

And you dont buy the record doesnt matter? I want to see improvement on defense and special teams, period. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE RECORD. We aren't winning a superbowl this year, so the record doesnt ****ing matter. What matters is that we show improvement throughout the season instead of pulling a Shanny and fading down the stretch.

Mr. Elway
08-13-2009, 01:05 PM
I think our schedule is extremely tough and if we lose some close ones and end up with 6 or 7 wins that is not a failure. I am looking for us to hang tough with the big kids, play consistently (i.e. avoid humiliating blowouts like 2007-2008), and improve steadily as the season progresses. A positive turnover ratio would be a good sign too.

Also if Ayers, Smith or Moreno could be ROY that would be great. :)

Rabb
08-13-2009, 01:05 PM
Really?

New system.
New Coach.
New QB.
New Defensive Coaches.
New Defense period.

And you dont buy the record doesnt matter? I want to see improvement on defense and special teams, period. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE RECORD. We aren't winning a superbowl this year, so the record doesnt ****ing matter. What matters is that we show improvement throughout the season instead of pulling a Shanny and fading down the stretch.

this

I know I have said it many times now but before any trading or coaching changes after the schedule was out, I had us lucky to get more than 7 wins as it was then because of the crap we were sure to roll out again on defense

Dagmar
08-13-2009, 01:06 PM
You sir, can be replaced.

Not possible. :yayaya::egbgb:;)

RhymesayersDU
08-13-2009, 01:06 PM
Really?

New system.
New Coach.
New QB.
New Defensive Coaches.
New Defense period.

And you dont buy the record doesnt matter? I want to see improvement on defense and special teams, period. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE RECORD. We aren't winning a superbowl this year, so the record doesnt ****ing matter. What matters is that we show improvement throughout the season instead of pulling a Shanny and fading down the stretch.

Ex-freaking-zactly.

kamakazi_kal
08-13-2009, 01:06 PM
WIN now.

CoopDawg
08-13-2009, 01:15 PM
In order for me to view this season as a success I would like us to go 8-8 or 9-7, hopefully sneak into the playoffs and finish better than the Bears for draft compensation.

DBroncos4life
08-13-2009, 01:18 PM
I voted for everything over 9-7 because anything over 9-7 is a success.

TheDave
08-13-2009, 01:19 PM
If McKidd pulls off an 8-8 record or better it will be one of the great coaching jobs ever... That and I wouldn't have nearly as much to bitch about concerning the alphonso smith trade.

Dark Helmet
08-13-2009, 01:19 PM
Cutler failing in Chicago

DBroncos4life
08-13-2009, 01:22 PM
If McKidd pulls off an 8-8 record or better it will be one of the great coaching jobs ever... That and I wouldn't have nearly as much to b**** about concerning the alphonso smith trade.

You know this is going to upset the golden load crew

kamakazi_kal
08-13-2009, 01:24 PM
You know this is going to upset the golden load crew

McNuts in your mouth kid.

TailgateNut
08-13-2009, 01:25 PM
Over 5 wins will be a wild success.


Anybody thinking we'll do any better is delusional.


I guess I'm delusional.

TailgateNut
08-13-2009, 01:27 PM
Colonel "I have a Beef with the Broncos" STFU.

Cmac821
08-13-2009, 01:35 PM
You are always a loser if you don't win the Superbowl :thumbs:

TheDave
08-13-2009, 01:36 PM
You know this is going to upset the golden load crew

They might be chugging the orange kool aid now, but reality will settle in soon enough.

DawnBTVS
08-13-2009, 01:53 PM
I voted 7-9 or worse but that's more because I see them finishing around 6-10 or 7-9 but with a lot of close losses to good teams. Games where the record will show a loss in the W-L column but it'll be one of those 24-21 or 17-14 losses where the team's in it all the way, rather than being blown out.

NW Bolt Fan
08-13-2009, 01:54 PM
Over 5 wins will be a wild success.


Anybody thinking we'll do any better is delusional.This

Jekyll15Hyde
08-13-2009, 01:56 PM
Agree give me improvement from week 1 -17 and I give a damn about the record.

This is exactly where I am.

TheReverend
08-13-2009, 01:57 PM
This

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/bale_and_kermit.gif

jhns
08-13-2009, 02:00 PM
A successful season would be us getting cutler back and firing mcd. Since that won't happen we are screwed this season. Don't worry though, it will still be a success. It will hopefully open bowlens eyes so we can start really getting good under the guidance of mr bill cowher next year.

I really like how people are using the fact that we lost ou qb as one of the excuses for us to do bad. If we don't finish better than last year, this season is a complete failure. Mcd doesn't get the qb change excuse. That is just dumb. He is the one that gave the qb away. If he can't do better without him, why exactly would people defend it? Laughable...

Man I can't wait til next offseason. Cowher will get the ship moving in the right direction.

Pick Six
08-13-2009, 02:01 PM
The playoff drought has to come to an end this year. That would tell me (and tell future free agents) that we are headed back in the right direction...

Mr. Elway
08-13-2009, 02:09 PM
A successful season would be us getting cutler back and firing mcd. Since that won't happen we are screwed this season. Don't worry though, it will still be a success. It will hopefully open bowlens eyes so we can start really getting good under the guidance of mr bill cowher next year.

I really like how people are using the fact that we lost ou qb as one of the excuses for us to do bad. If we don't finish better than last year, this season is a complete failure. Mcd doesn't get the qb change excuse. That is just dumb. He is the one that gave the qb away. If he can't do better without him, why exactly would people defend it? Laughable...

Man I can't wait til next offseason. Cowher will get the ship moving in the right direction.

FYI you sound really bitter.

Hotrod
08-13-2009, 02:11 PM
I guess I'm delusional.

I've been trying to tell you that for years :~ohyah!:

Houshyamama
08-13-2009, 02:14 PM
FYI you sound really bitter.

Hell hath no fury like a Cutler fan scorned

ElwayMD
08-13-2009, 02:15 PM
A winning season would be great...playoffs would be icing on the cake.

jhns
08-13-2009, 02:15 PM
FYI you sound really bitter.

I am really bitter. McD stole my candy.

RhymesayersDU
08-13-2009, 02:20 PM
I guess I'm delusional.

TGN, how many games do you honestly see us winning, and why?

Schedule is brutal. Offense is brand new, untested, etc. Defense is in shambles as we try to work through a complete overhaul/change in scheme.

I mean, I just don't see it. It would be different if we didn't play the entire NFC East, Indy, New England, and Pittsburgh. Oh yeah, and Baltimore. San Diego twice.

We play the best teams in the league, and we don't have a defense, and our QB is a question mark.

I just don't see where many wins will come from. We'll probably split with KC, we could potentially beat Oakland twice, but a split there is possible. I'll take my chances with Cincy. That's 3-4 wins right there, maybe. Sure, we probably upset a team down the road we should lose to, maybe even two. But wins are going to be so hard to come by.

TheReverend
08-13-2009, 02:24 PM
TGN, how many games do you honestly see us winning, and why?

Schedule is brutal. Offense is brand new, untested, etc. Defense is in shambles as we try to work through a complete overhaul/change in scheme.

I mean, I just don't see it. It would be different if we didn't play the entire NFC East, Indy, New England, and Pittsburgh. Oh yeah, and Baltimore. San Diego twice.

We play the best teams in the league, and we don't have a defense, and our QB is a question mark.

I just don't see where many wins will come from. We'll probably split with KC, we could potentially beat Oakland twice, but a split there is possible. I'll take my chances with Cincy. That's 3-4 wins right there, maybe. Sure, we probably upset a team down the road we should lose to, maybe even two. But wins are going to be so hard to come by.

I think we lose to Cincy... but I think they're borderline playoff team this season (yes, serious post)

_Oro_
08-13-2009, 02:28 PM
A successful season would be us getting cutler back and firing mcd. Since that won't happen we are screwed this season. Don't worry though, it will still be a success. It will hopefully open bowlens eyes so we can start really getting good under the guidance of mr bill cowher next year.

I really like how people are using the fact that we lost ou qb as one of the excuses for us to do bad. If we don't finish better than last year, this season is a complete failure. Mcd doesn't get the qb change excuse. That is just dumb. He is the one that gave the qb away. If he can't do better without him, why exactly would people defend it? Laughable...

Man I can't wait til next offseason. Cowher will get the ship moving in the right direction.

Please go away.

Lolad
08-13-2009, 02:30 PM
I don't buy the "i don't care about the record" rhetoric. If improvement doesn't translate into being better than 8-8 this season and making the playoffs, then it's not much of a standard.

I agree, when we finished last season it was "all we need is an RB and an improved defense" and we should be in the playoffs. That still holds true if it doesn't happen then our coach and owner is an idiot!

DenverBrit
08-13-2009, 02:35 PM
Really?

New system.
New Coach.
New QB.
New Defensive Coaches.
New Defense period.

And you dont buy the record doesnt matter? I want to see improvement on defense and special teams, period. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE RECORD. We aren't winning a superbowl this year, so the record doesnt ****ing matter. What matters is that we show improvement throughout the season instead of pulling a Shanny and fading down the stretch.

Agreed! Improvement everywhere would be a success. :thumbs:

RhymesayersDU
08-13-2009, 02:35 PM
I agree, when we finished last season it was "all we need is an RB and an improved defense" and we should be in the playoffs. That still holds true if it doesn't happen then our coach and owner is an idiot!

I think trading our Pro Bowl QB changes those parameters a little bit.

And do people actually think you can take a horrid defense, completely change schemes, and turn it into the Giants or the Ravens in 1 single off-season?

Work in progress, folks. I seriously can't believe some of you guys expect greatness after one off-season.

Lolad
08-13-2009, 02:38 PM
I think trading our Pro Bowl QB changes those parameters a little bit.

And do people actually think you can take a horrid defense, completely change schemes, and turn it into the Giants or the Ravens in 1 single off-season?

Work in progress, folks. I seriously can't believe some of you guys expect greatness after one off-season.

You don't trade a Pro Bowl QB unless you think your going to make the teqam better. Thats what our coach has said, So if we're not better that means he's failed. I don't expect a #1 or even top 10 defense. Middle of the pack would do just fine 15-20 range. And we would be that much better

DivineLegion
08-13-2009, 02:49 PM
Im looking for defensive improvement, if we see development from our younger players across the Front 7 I will be content. I voted 10-6, because the goal of bringing McD in was to improve on mediocre 8-8, 9-7 seasons. I know thats a loft expectation for a new coach but its been proven possible, and we have a lot of veteran players that should fill most of the Holes that killed us last season.

Ive been preaching Ball control for awhile now, and I really think with a strong running game and a Much improved Defense we can match the production of the Dolphins last season. Dont get me wrong im expecting an 8-8 season, but any season where you dont win a championship is a failure... Rebuilding or not the expectation of this team is to WIN.

jhns
08-13-2009, 02:51 PM
So let's go over all of the early excuses for why it is ok to be worse than last season.

1. New defense.

Kind of a lame excuse. If we aren't better than our franchises worst ever defense, do we really have the right guy for the job? I'm not saying they should be great but they should easily be better than last year if these guys know what they are doing.

2. The tough schedule.

The pre-defined excuses don't get any better than this one. Oh wait, you then actually look at the schedule and realize a few things. We have a middle of the pack schedule if you go off what those teams did last year. We also do not face any more playoff teams than we have the last two years. Overhyped coastal teams do not make a tough schedule.

3. New offensive scheme.

Considering the entire offense was rookie-third year players last year, the extra year of experience easily offsets having to learn a new system. Most were learning a new one last year. Then you factor in the injuries last year and mcds obvious genious and I don't get how we should be worse...

4. New QB.

Are you kidding with this excuse?

RhymesayersDU
08-13-2009, 02:54 PM
So let's go over all of the ealy excuses fir why it is ok to be worse than last season.

1. New defense.

Kind of a lame excuse. If we aren't better than our franchises worst ever defense, do we really have the right guy for the job? I'm not saying they should be great but they should easily be better than last year if these guys know what they are doing.

2. The tough schedule.

The pre-defined excuses don't get any better than this one. Oh wait, you then actually look at the schedule and realize a few things. We have a middle of the pack schedule if you go off what those teams did last year. We also do not face any more playoff teams than we have the last two years. Overhyped coastal teams do not make a tough schedule.

3. New offensive scheme.

Considering the entire offense was rookie-third year players last year, the extra year of experience easily offsets having to learn a new system. Most were learning a new one last year. Then you factor in the injuries last year and mcds obvious genious and I don't get how we should be worse...

4. New QB.

Are you kidding with this excuse?

LOL

Guarantee by December you will want the whole front office and coaching staff fired with this attitude.

This will be an awesome season, as far as message board drama goes.

Hotrod
08-13-2009, 02:57 PM
So let's go over all of the ealy excuses fir why it is ok to be worse than last season.

1. New defense.

Kind of a lame excuse. If we aren't better than our franchises worst ever defense, do we really have the right guy for the job? I'm not saying they should be great but they should easily be better than last year if these guys know what they are doing.

2. The tough schedule.

The pre-defined excuses don't get any better than this one. Oh wait, you then actually look at the schedule and realize a few things. We have a middle of the pack schedule if you go off what those teams did last year. We also do not face any more playoff teams than we have the last two years. Overhyped coastal teams do not make a tough schedule.

3. New offensive scheme.

Considering the entire offense was rookie-third year players last year, the extra year of experience easily offsets having to learn a new system. Most were learning a new one last year. Then you factor in the injuries last year and mcds obvious genious and I don't get how we should be worse...

4. New QB.

Are you kidding with this excuse?


1. Maybe
2. You are a flipping idiot
3. you are joking right?
4. no not at all

Anything else Nancy?

jhns
08-13-2009, 02:58 PM
Guarantee by December you will want the whole front office and coaching staff fired with this attitude.


More like May.

Hotrod
08-13-2009, 03:00 PM
More like May.

LOL I'm starting to like this guy

Lev Vyvanse
08-13-2009, 03:00 PM
It's time to make the donuts. Yay!!!

http://comedycentral.mtvnimages.com/images/shows/crankyankers/v_series/cy_309_specialed_v6.jpg?height=75&width=100

kamakazi_kal
08-13-2009, 03:00 PM
I think trading our Pro Bowl QB changes those parameters a little bit.

And do people actually think you can take a horrid defense, completely change schemes, and turn it into the Giants or the Ravens in 1 single off-season?

Work in progress, folks. I seriously can't believe some of you guys expect greatness after one off-season.

WTF ..... Orton has greatness hidden under his neckbeard :spit:

c_lazy_r
08-13-2009, 03:01 PM
Please go away.

This

jhns
08-13-2009, 03:05 PM
1. Maybe
2. You are a flipping idiot
3. you are joking right?
4. no not at all

Anything else Nancy?

2. We have the 19th hardest schedule if you go off of what teams did last year. I think you are the dumb one if you think that is hard.

3. Not joking at all. Why would it be an excuse this season and not the last couple when we had all new offensive players. Shoot, they weren't even just new to the team, they were new to the league.

4. Someone will have to explain how mcd can get a pass when he makes the team worse with his decisions. I don't understand.

kamakazi_kal
08-13-2009, 03:08 PM
2. We have the 19th hardest schedule if you go off of what teams did last year. I think you are the dumb one if you think that is hard.

3. Not joking at all. Why would it be an excuse this season and not the last couple when we had all new offensive players. Shoot, they weren't even just new to the team, they were new to the league.

4. Someone will have to explain how mcd can get a pass when he makes the team worse with his decisions. I don't understand.

Well for now were undefeated ...... that's why everyone is all positive like.

VICTORY

ScottXray
08-13-2009, 03:08 PM
Considering the schedule we have and the wholesale changes on both sides, I'd say that almost anything will be a success.

However what would really say that we definitely are getting better is a record BETTER than last year.

So I checked 9-7. Anything at that level or more is undoubtedly an Improvement over shannys teams. Actually 8-8 would also qualify considering the schedule we face.

If by any chance we actually make the playoffs it would be tremendous improvement.:spit:

Hotrod
08-13-2009, 03:12 PM
2. We have the 19th hardest schedule if you go off of what teams did last year. I think you are the dumb one if you think that is hard.

3. Not joking at all. Why would it be an excuse this season and not the last couple when we had all new offensive players. Shoot, they weren't even just new to the team, they were new to the league.

4. Someone will have to explain how mcd can get a pass when he makes the team worse with his decisions. I don't understand.

LOL I think you are looking at the wrong schedule

TheReverend
08-13-2009, 03:15 PM
LOL I think you are looking at the wrong schedule

Uhh

He's very right. Tied for 19th/20th:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/news/story?id=4027503

RhymesayersDU
08-13-2009, 03:15 PM
Look, I'll buy that our schedule might be technically the 19th hardest in the league.

But I also will guarantee you the records of Oakland (twice), KC (twice) and Cincy are bringing down the average A LOT and not showing how many really good teams we play.

TheReverend
08-13-2009, 03:16 PM
To be fair:

The majority of that is thanks to AFCW's ineptitude in 2008

Hotrod
08-13-2009, 03:17 PM
Uhh

He's very right. Tied for 19th/20th:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/news/story?id=4027503

I guess I have to admit the chefs and faid help out but seriously that schedule is a over all bitch I dont care what even lord Cutler has to say on the subject.

jhns
08-13-2009, 03:17 PM
LOL I think you are looking at the wrong schedule

Not at all. I don't know how to copy/paste on my phone but I will link you all to our strength of schedule later. If you go off what the teams actually did last year, we do not have one of the harder schedules. You are all just going off hype of teams from what they did years ago and not recently.

Hotrod
08-13-2009, 03:19 PM
Not at all. I don't know how to copy/paste on my phone but I will link you all to our strength of schedule later. If you go off what the teams actually did last year, we do not have one of the harder schedules. You are all just going off hype of teams from what they did years ago and not recently.

Ok fair enough I'm off to take a second look at the schedule I'll have my final ruling in 30 minutes :)

jhns
08-13-2009, 03:21 PM
Look, I'll buy that our schedule might be technically the 19th hardest in the league.

But I also will guarantee you the records of Oakland (twice), KC (twice) and Cincy are bringing down the average A LOT and not showing how many really good teams we play.

A lot of teams play just as many crappy teams and all of then have some pulling them down. We were the second worst devision so we do get pulled down a little further. That doesn't make us one of the hardest schedules still though.

TheReverend
08-13-2009, 03:23 PM
I guess I have to admit the chefs and faid help out but seriously that schedule is a over all b**** I dont care what even lord Cutler has to say on the subject.

I agree. I honestly think we lose every out of division game.

RhymesayersDU
08-13-2009, 03:31 PM
A lot of teams play just as many crappy teams and all of then have some pulling them down. We were the second worst devision so we do get pulled down a little further. That doesn't make us one of the hardest schedules still though.

Fair enough. Let me approach this differently. These are the teams and locations of our regular season games. You tell me which teams we beat.

Sun, Sep 13 @ Cincinnati 1:00 PM
Sun, Sep 20 Cleveland 4:15 PM
Sun, Sep 27 @ Oakland 4:15 PM
Sun, Oct 4 Dallas 4:15 PM
Sun, Oct 11 New England 4:15 PM
Mon, Oct 19 @ San Diego 8:30 PM
BYE WEEK
Sun, Nov 1 @ Baltimore 1:00 PM
Mon, Nov 9 Pittsburgh 8:30 PM
Sun, Nov 15 @ Washington 1:00 PM
Sun, Nov 22 San Diego 4:15 PM
Thu, Nov 26 NY Giants 8:20 PM
Sun, Dec 6 @ Kansas City 1:00 PM
Sun, Dec 13 @ Indianapolis 1:00 PM
Sun, Dec 20 Oakland 4:05 PM
Sun, Dec 27 @ Philadelphia 1:00 PM
Sun, Jan 3 Kansas City


As things stand now, I see 5 wins. And I feel like I'm being generous with a sweep of Oakland. Since our schedule is so easy, you tell me how many wins you expect, and who you expect to beat.

DivineLegion
08-13-2009, 03:33 PM
Think of it this way with our schedule, at least we know how we compare to the best competition in the league. We play perennial Superbowl contenders, and playoff teams with a brandnew squad and a new head coach. Our young guys are going to learn what its going to take to compete with the best in the league.

Houshyamama
08-13-2009, 03:42 PM
I miss the days when our schedule was not the deciding factor in whether or not we make the playoffs. The goal of this team should be to dominate and make others see The Denver Broncos on their schedule and tremble. Mediocrity is no success.

TheDave
08-13-2009, 03:48 PM
Fair enough. Let me approach this differently. These are the teams and locations of our regular season games. You tell me which teams we beat.

Sun, Sep 13 @ Cincinnati 1:00 PM
Sun, Sep 20 Cleveland 4:15 PM
Sun, Sep 27 @ Oakland 4:15 PM
Sun, Oct 4 Dallas 4:15 PM
Sun, Oct 11 New England 4:15 PM
Mon, Oct 19 @ San Diego 8:30 PM
BYE WEEK
Sun, Nov 1 @ Baltimore 1:00 PM
Mon, Nov 9 Pittsburgh 8:30 PM
Sun, Nov 15 @ Washington 1:00 PM
Sun, Nov 22 San Diego 4:15 PM
Thu, Nov 26 NY Giants 8:20 PM
Sun, Dec 6 @ Kansas City 1:00 PM
Sun, Dec 13 @ Indianapolis 1:00 PM
Sun, Dec 20 Oakland 4:05 PM
Sun, Dec 27 @ Philadelphia 1:00 PM
Sun, Jan 3 Kansas City


As things stand now, I see 5 wins. And I feel like I'm being generous with a sweep of Oakland. Since our schedule is so easy, you tell me how many wins you expect, and who you expect to beat.


As it stands now we would be favored in 3 maybe 4 of those games... BRUTAL!

p.s. probably not a good time to trade away our 2010 1st... uggh

BlaK-Argentina
08-13-2009, 03:50 PM
Fair enough. Let me approach this differently. These are the teams and locations of our regular season games. You tell me which teams we beat.

Sun, Sep 13 @ Cincinnati 1:00 PM
Sun, Sep 20 Cleveland 4:15 PM
Sun, Sep 27 @ Oakland 4:15 PM
Sun, Oct 4 Dallas 4:15 PM
Sun, Oct 11 New England 4:15 PM
Mon, Oct 19 @ San Diego 8:30 PM
BYE WEEK
Sun, Nov 1 @ Baltimore 1:00 PM
Mon, Nov 9 Pittsburgh 8:30 PM
Sun, Nov 15 @ Washington 1:00 PM
Sun, Nov 22 San Diego 4:15 PM
Thu, Nov 26 NY Giants 8:20 PM
Sun, Dec 6 @ Kansas City 1:00 PM
Sun, Dec 13 @ Indianapolis 1:00 PM
Sun, Dec 20 Oakland 4:05 PM
Sun, Dec 27 @ Philadelphia 1:00 PM
Sun, Jan 3 Kansas City


As things stand now, I see 5 wins. And I feel like I'm being generous with a sweep of Oakland. Since our schedule is so easy, you tell me how many wins you expect, and who you expect to beat.

That schedule feels like a kick in the nuts every time I read it.

ScottXray
08-13-2009, 03:51 PM
Fair enough. Let me approach this differently. These are the teams and locations of our regular season games. You tell me which teams we beat.

Sun, Sep 13 @ Cincinnati 1:00 PM
Sun, Sep 20 Cleveland 4:15 PM
Sun, Sep 27 @ Oakland 4:15 PM
Sun, Oct 4 Dallas 4:15 PM
Sun, Oct 11 New England 4:15 PM
Mon, Oct 19 @ San Diego 8:30 PM
BYE WEEK
Sun, Nov 1 @ Baltimore 1:00 PM
Mon, Nov 9 Pittsburgh 8:30 PM
Sun, Nov 15 @ Washington 1:00 PM
Sun, Nov 22 San Diego 4:15 PM
Thu, Nov 26 NY Giants 8:20 PM
Sun, Dec 6 @ Kansas City 1:00 PM
Sun, Dec 13 @ Indianapolis 1:00 PM
Sun, Dec 20 Oakland 4:05 PM
Sun, Dec 27 @ Philadelphia 1:00 PM
Sun, Jan 3 Kansas City


As things stand now, I see 5 wins. And I feel like I'm being generous with a sweep of Oakland. Since our schedule is so easy, you tell me how many wins you expect, and who you expect to beat.


these are the games that make our season a b****...and the fact that 9 of them come in a row.....except for the Bye and the KC game (and that is IN KC in December, something that our shanahan teams couldn't win.

Those games all in a row are what makes it so tough.

We do get Dallas, NE, Pitt, and the Giants here. If we can get a home field advantage going and can win two of those 4 we could do all right.
But it will take the team gelling EARLY and getting on a roll to go into the last 4 games at 6-6 or better. If that happens we could get to 8-8.
That's why I think that record or better would show this year as a success.

RhymesayersDU
08-13-2009, 03:53 PM
As it stands now we would be favored in 3 maybe 4 of those games... BRUTAL!

p.s. probably not a good time to trade away our 2010 1st... uggh

Exactly!

People can try and dismiss the schedule all they want, but just look at it. Where do the wins come from? I mean, San Diego was 8-8 last year. Are we beating them? Probably not, but because they were 8-8, our strength of schedule goes down. Look week by week, and wins are pretty hard to come by.

Hotrod
08-13-2009, 03:57 PM
Sun, Sep 13 @ Cincinnati 1:00 PM
Sun, Sep 20 Cleveland 4:15 PM
Sun, Sep 27 @ Oakland 4:15 PM
Sun, Oct 4 Dallas 4:15 PM
Sun, Oct 11 New England 4:15 PM
Mon, Oct 19 @ San Diego 8:30 PM
BYE WEEK
Sun, Nov 1 @ Baltimore 1:00 PM
Mon, Nov 9 Pittsburgh 8:30 PM
Sun, Nov 15 @ Washington 1:00 PM
Sun, Nov 22 San Diego 4:15 PM
Thu, Nov 26 NY Giants 8:20 PM
Sun, Dec 6 @ Kansas City 1:00 PM
Sun, Dec 13 @ Indianapolis 1:00 PM
Sun, Dec 20 Oakland 4:05 PM
Sun, Dec 27 @ Philadelphia 1:00 PM
Sun, Jan 3 Kansas City


There 4 wins and I figure somewhere we steal a 5th thats it.

Last years team would be damn near the exact same IMHO

RhymesayersDU
08-13-2009, 03:59 PM
I thought about Washington... I would have nabbed Wash for a win had it been in Denver.

I had @Cincy, Cleveland, Oakland, Oakland again, KC @ home.

Cincy will be tough on the road, and like I said sweeping Oakland is probably generous.

TheDave
08-13-2009, 04:03 PM
Exactly!

People can try and dismiss the schedule all they want, but just look at it. Where do the wins come from? I mean, San Diego was 8-8 last year. Are we beating them? Probably not, but because they were 8-8, our strength of schedule goes down. Look week by week, and wins are pretty hard to come by.

You have to assume some of those teams will struggle. Combine that with 2-3 division wins and you get 6-10. Thats why I said 8-8 would be an absolutely masterful job of coaching.

Brutal... just brutal.

RhymesayersDU
08-13-2009, 04:03 PM
Oh and for the record, I'm not in "draft pick mode" by any stretch of the imagination. I don't want us to tank or anything. I will be ecstatic to come here and eat some crow if McD and Orton lead us to lots of wins, etc.

I just don't see it happening.

Dr. Broncenstein
08-13-2009, 04:04 PM
If you listen to Pat Kirwan's routine answer regarding the potential of any team, he'd say the following:

1. Do you have a quarterback?
2. Do you have a defense?
3. Do you have playmakers?

We have one of the three. Orton is an unknown quantity. The defense is in the midst of a sea change. So to think we have a legit shot at any post season success is unrealistic. This team is a work in progress at best.

RhymesayersDU
08-13-2009, 04:05 PM
You have to assume some of those teams will struggle. Combine that with 2-3 division wins and you get 6-10. Thats why I said 8-8 would be an absolutely masterful job of coaching.

Brutal... just brutal.

Well that is true, of course. Last year with rookie QBs, who would have thought Atlanta or Baltimore would have been any good. Atlanta especially. And then they shocked everybody.

So of course, stuff happens. Good teams with the same personnel don't get certain wins they got the year before, balls don't bounce their way, etc.

But at least on paper, it's going to be rough.

Hotrod
08-13-2009, 04:05 PM
Oh and for the record, I'm not in "draft pick mode" by any stretch of the imagination. I don't want us to tank or anything. I will be ecstatic to come here and eat some crow if McD and Orton lead us to lots of wins, etc.

I just don't see it happening.

I agree 100% I'd love to look like the biggest ****ing idiot come playoff time. I'd be one happy idiot at that.

FireFly
08-13-2009, 04:10 PM
For me, if we go 8-8 or 9-7 I'd be very pleased. More so if we were competitive in the 7 as well.

If we made the play-offs; I wouldn't care how, I'd be happy! :flower:

Lolad
08-13-2009, 04:11 PM
Fair enough. Let me approach this differently. These are the teams and locations of our regular season games. You tell me which teams we beat.

Sun, Sep 13 @ Cincinnati 1:00 PM
Sun, Sep 20 Cleveland 4:15 PM
Sun, Sep 27 @ Oakland 4:15 PM
Sun, Oct 4 Dallas 4:15 PM
Sun, Oct 11 New England 4:15 PM
Mon, Oct 19 @ San Diego 8:30 PM
BYE WEEK
Sun, Nov 1 @ Baltimore 1:00 PM
Mon, Nov 9 Pittsburgh 8:30 PM
Sun, Nov 15 @ Washington 1:00 PM
Sun, Nov 22 San Diego 4:15 PM
Thu, Nov 26 NY Giants 8:20 PM
Sun, Dec 6 @ Kansas City 1:00 PM
Sun, Dec 13 @ Indianapolis 1:00 PM
Sun, Dec 20 Oakland 4:05 PM
Sun, Dec 27 @ Philadelphia 1:00 PM
Sun, Jan 3 Kansas City


As things stand now, I see 5 wins. And I feel like I'm being generous with a sweep of Oakland. Since our schedule is so easy, you tell me how many wins you expect, and who you expect to beat.

I say we win 10+ games if McD is as good as advertised and our defense is 15-20 range

BroncoBuff
08-13-2009, 04:12 PM
Playoffs or not, 9-7 would be a success.

Archer81
08-13-2009, 04:14 PM
To stay healthy. No ligament tears, groin pulls, broken bones. Some consistency would be good, too.


:Broncos:

Black59Razor
08-13-2009, 04:20 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmm...

Let's see...

I say 3-1 in the first four games against Cincy, Cleve, Oakland and they will beat Dallas at home.

Not sure about the opener, could go either way.

New England, Pittsburgh, at Baltimore, and At Indy are going to be an extremely tough stretch, and they may not win any of those...if they can get one, that would be an accomplishment.

AT Washington is a winnable game, as I think the Skins are going to melt down this season under Zorn as a prelude to Shanahan returning to the NFL in DC. So, I'll call that a win.

The Broncos will split with San Diego, sweep Oakland and split with KC.

At Philly is a loss, and the NY Giants is the Wild Card game they have to win if they are going to reclaim their lost homefield advantage.

So in the end, I expect the Broncos to win 7 or 8 games, so anything north of that is a successful season.

The big question for me is Orton....just not sure how excited I can be about a Griese clone...maybe Simms comes on late?

jhns
08-13-2009, 04:23 PM
Fair enough. Let me approach this differently. These are the teams and locations of our regular season games. You tell me which teams we beat.

Sun, Sep 13 @ Cincinnati 1:00 PM
Sun, Sep 20 Cleveland 4:15 PM
Sun, Sep 27 @ Oakland 4:15 PM
Sun, Oct 4 Dallas 4:15 PM
Sun, Oct 11 New England 4:15 PM
Mon, Oct 19 @ San Diego 8:30 PM
BYE WEEK
Sun, Nov 1 @ Baltimore 1:00 PM
Mon, Nov 9 Pittsburgh 8:30 PM
Sun, Nov 15 @ Washington 1:00 PM
Sun, Nov 22 San Diego 4:15 PM
Thu, Nov 26 NY Giants 8:20 PM
Sun, Dec 6 @ Kansas City 1:00 PM
Sun, Dec 13 @ Indianapolis 1:00 PM
Sun, Dec 20 Oakland 4:05 PM
Sun, Dec 27 @ Philadelphia 1:00 PM
Sun, Jan 3 Kansas City


As things stand now, I see 5 wins. And I feel like I'm being generous with a sweep of Oakland. Since our schedule is so easy, you tell me how many wins you expect, and who you expect to beat.

I wouldn't ask me where I think we are getting wins. I was just stating that the myth of a hard schedule is just that, a myth. We have the 19th hardest schedule this season if you go off of what those teams did last season. Even if you try saying that is our division pulling us down, it isn't like it pulls us down 10 spots. So I will grant you it may be about 15 or so.

Now how many do I see us winning? Hardly any. I don't expect this season to be a success though. In order for it to be a success, we need to win more than last year. BTW, last year we had a harder schedule with more playoff teams than this comming year. Two years ago was even worse.

I don't see how people can say it is successful if we get worse.

I think we win a lot more games with Cutler and more resources spent on the defense. I think we are a lot better off trading Chicagos pick instead of giving up a top 10 pick for a single second round pick when we do make these kinds of changes. This offseason has been a complete failure if we lose more than last year.

Black59Razor
08-13-2009, 04:32 PM
I wouldn't ask me where I think we are getting wins. I was just stating that the myth of a hard schedule is just that, a myth. We have the 19th hardest schedule this season if you go off of what those teams did last season. Even if you try saying that is our division pulling us down, it isn't like it pulls us down 10 spots. So I will grant you it may be about 15 or so.

Now how many do I see us winning? Hardly any. I don't expect this season to be a success though. In order for it to be a success, we need to win more than last year. BTW, last year we had a harder schedule with more playoff teams than this comming year. Two years ago was even worse.

I don't see how people can say it is successful if we get worse.

Since I know who you are from the Broncomania message board, I also know you are sandbagging...you want to see the Broncos fail so you can rail on McD, so you are eliminating the schedule excuse now so that you have further ammo to tell us all how McD sucks, but it is a brutal schedule, one of the most difficult if not the most difficult in the NFL.

New England, At San Diego, At Baltimore, Pittsburgh, AT Washington, NY Giants and At Indy...in that stretch right there, MOST teams in the NFL would expect to win maybe ONE game.

The consensus best team in the NFL, followed by a trip to SD, at Balt against one of the best defenses in the NFL, followed by the World Champions, the Giants at home on Thanksgiving and then a trip to Indy?

That is brutal, any way you want to slice it, and it is going to tax the Broncos.

The only game most teams would expect to win is the Washington game.

The team the Broncos had last year would have been lucky to win five games on this schedule.

Hotrod
08-13-2009, 04:36 PM
I wouldn't ask me where I think we are getting wins. I was just stating that the myth of a hard schedule is just that, a myth. We have the 19th hardest schedule this season if you go off of what those teams did last season. Even if you try saying that is our division pulling us down, it isn't like it pulls us down 10 spots. So I will grant you it may be about 15 or so.

Now how many do I see us winning? Hardly any. I don't expect this season to be a success though. In order for it to be a success, we need to win more than last year. BTW, last year we had a harder schedule with more playoff teams than this comming year. Two years ago was even worse.

I don't see how people can say it is successful if we get worse.

I think we win a lot more games with Cutler and more resources spent on the defense. I think we are a lot better off trading Chicagos pick instead of giving up a top 10 pick for a single second round pick when we do make these kinds of changes. This offseason has been a complete failure if we lose more than last year.

There is the kicker right there. Staying with Shanny not only would not caused more resources to be spent on the defense but Slowik would still be our DC

Did we lose on the Cutler trade? who knows yet. I suspect we did (short term) but I also suspect long tern (2-3 years) we will come out in better overall shape then if we had stuck with Shanny.

jhns
08-13-2009, 04:36 PM
Since I know who you are from the Broncomania message board, I also know you are sandbagging...you want to see the Broncos fail so you can rail on McD, so you are eliminating the schedule excuse now so that you have further ammo to tell us all how McD sucks, but it is a brutal schedule, one of the most difficult if not the most difficult in the NFL.

New England, At San Diego, At Baltimore, Pittsburgh, AT Washington, NY Giants and At Indy...in that stretch right there, MOST teams in the NFL would expect to win maybe ONE game.

The consensus best team in the NFL, followed by a trip to SD, at Balt against one of the best defenses in the NFL, followed by the World Champions, the Giants at home on Thanksgiving and then a trip to Indy?

That is brutal, any way you want to slice it, and it is going to tax the Broncos.

The only game most teams would expect to win is the Washington game.

The team the Broncos had last year would have been lucky to win five games on this schedule.

LOL

The fact that you all are already making up the excuses is just funny to me. There are already so many of them. None of you even think McDaniels knows what he is doing.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/news/story?id=4027503

I'm not making this stuff up. You are going off of hype and not what our schedule actually did last season. Even if you want to say it is because of our division, that should be 6 free wins then..... You are saying we can't get 3 more other than those?

This is the first time in my life I have seen Bronco fans so willing to call a season a success after getting worse.

Also, I would never want to see the Broncos fail. It isn't like I have ever been one to make others "eat crow" and whatnot. That is just dumb. I would rather them make me look like an idiot for doubting them. I can just use my brain and see that this team isn't going in the right direction. No need for excuses. Excuses are for minor leagues.

jhns
08-13-2009, 04:38 PM
There is the kicker right there. Staying with Shanny not only would not caused more resources to be spent on the defense but Slowik would still be our DC

Did we lose on the Cutler trade? who knows yet. I suspect we did (short term) but I also suspect long tern (2-3 years) we will come out in better overall shape then if we had stuck with Shanny.


I didn't say staying with Shanahan. I said keeping Cutler and spending more resources on defense. As it stands, we gave away Cutler and spent just as many resources on a good offense as we did on our all time worst defense.....

I loved Shanahan but I think it was his time to go if he really wanted to keep Slowik. I'm not here arguing that we needed to keep Shanahan.

We already lost the trade. You may not believe me but you will in a couple of years.

Black59Razor
08-13-2009, 04:46 PM
LOL

The fact that you all are already making up the excuses is just funny to me. There are already so many of them. None of you even think McDaniels knows what he is doing.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/news/story?id=4027503

I'm not making this stuff up. You are going off of hype and not what our schedule actually did last season. Even if you want to say it is because of our division, that should be 6 free wins then..... You are saying we can't get 3 more other than those?

This is the first time in my life I have seen Bronco fans so willing to call a season a success after getting worse.

Not really.

Alot of the great teams in NFL history start off with a bad first season and build on that.

What I know about the Broncos is this.

The Shanahan/Cutler version of this team was a mirage.

Shanahan hired Slowik as DC, and was on record as saying he was not going to replace him. So with that in mind, how was he going to improve the defense drastically in onw season? That is all I need to know that this team would have been lucky to go 5-11 this year.

With all the changes that have been made, history should tell you the first season could be rough, and it may very well be, but it won't be the final verdict as you suggest.

It will have ZERO to do with where the team is in a couple of seasons.

If you want to stomp your feet an cry about it and write off the team, that is certainly your perogative, but it certainly does not make you right...and again, there are still seats on the Bears bandwagon with Cutler, feel free to join them.

Is it going to matter if the Broncos go 6-10 this year, and in three years they are back in contention?

Hell no, it will be long forgotten, and as I mentioned, if you think this team's record was going to be significantly better this season by maintaining the status quo under Shanahan, you are a fool.

jhns
08-13-2009, 04:56 PM
...and again, there are still seats on the Bears bandwagon with Cutler, feel free to join them.


Why would I do that? I am the one that actually cares about the team. The one that gets mad when people are f'n with the team and making it worse. I think that it is time for all of you that enjoy seeing the team go to trash to leave and jump on some other bandwagon.

Oh yeah, how long did it take Shanahan to get the Broncos playing a lot better? Was it 3 seasons like you said? Is that really how long it takes to tell if a coach is good when he takes over an 8-8 team? Hmmm.... I don't think I agree at all.

When have I ever said that we should have kept the team like it was last year? We needed change but this new U.S. attitude of any change makes things better is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. We needed change but we needed the correct changes, not just any changes.

You guys have all of these excuses to why we are going to not have many wins. Well, then we REALLLY screwed up giving away our first round pick for a second...... There is no way around it. In order for McDaniels to be a success, he has to actually make the team better.

Hotrod
08-13-2009, 04:58 PM
Why would I do that? I am the one that actually cares about the team. The one that gets mad when people are f'n with the team and making it worse.

Oh yeah, how long did it take Shanahan to get the Broncos playing a lot better? Was it 3 seasons like you said? Is that really how long it takes to tell if a coach is good when he takes over an 8-8 team? Hmmm.... I don't think I agree at all.

When have I ever said that we should have kept the team like it was last year?

I dont think at this point you can seperate the two events (shanny and losing cutler) they will forever be tied together. I doubt the master plan was to fire Shanny AND send Cutler packing.

ksBRONCOfan
08-13-2009, 05:00 PM
For me, the first thing every year is to finish with a higher record than the Chiefs. Living around all these idiots makes me want the Broncos to never have a worse record than the Chiefs (which hasn't set the bar very high lately).

In addition to this, thanks to getting drunk at the bar, I now have a bottle of Patron on the line that Denver will finish the season with a better record than Dallas.

jhns
08-13-2009, 05:00 PM
I dont think at this point you can seperate the two events (shanny and losing cutler) they will forever be tied together. I doubt the master plan was to fire Shanny AND send Cutler packing.

Then why wouldn't they be seperate?

They are easily seperated. One happened at a completely different time. The other only happened because our front office had 0 experience and had no clue how to deal with players.

Black59Razor
08-13-2009, 05:04 PM
So what's your point?

The team was 9-7 in 1993 under Phillips, went to the playoffs as a wld card, then slipped to 7-9 in 1994.

Shanahan went 8-8 in 1995 and by 1996 went 12-4, but he also had John Elway, Shannon Sharpe, Gary Zimmerman and Steve Atwater among others....a good core of veterans to help turn the team back around.

...and by the way, what lead that turnaround of the Broncos? Oh yeah, a rookie running back named Terrell Davis.

So what are you going to do if/when the Broncos DO improve and start to matter again?

It sounds like you are going to be exrtemely conflicted...

'Let's see, I want the Broncos to win, but I don't want McDaniels to succeed....but as a fan, I want the Broncos to win....but I can't stand McDaniels...'

Repeat as necessary.

jhns
08-13-2009, 05:08 PM
So what's your point?

The team was 9-7 in 1993 under Phillips, went to the playoffs as a wld card, then slipped to 7-9 in 1994.

Shanahan went 8-8 in 1995 and by 1996 went 12-4, but he also had John Elway, Shannon Sharpe, Gary Zimmerman and Steve Atwater among others....a good core of veterans to help turn the team back around.

...and by the way, what lead that turnaround of the Broncos? Oh yeah, a rookie running back named Terrell Davis.

So what are you going to do if/when the Broncos DO improve and start to matter again?

It sounds like you are going to be exrtemely conflicted...

'Let's see, I want the Broncos to win, but I don't want McDaniels to succeed....but as a fan, I want the Broncos to win....but I can't stand McDaniels...'

Repeat as necessary.

If they start to win and (unless we are winning SB's) Cutler isn't taking Chicago to multiple SB's, I will be right on the McDaniels bandwagon. I want him to be good. That way we didn't just screw ourselves. I have no problem giving respect to those that deserve it. Right now, McDaniels has done a lot to lose my respect.

My point with the last post is exactly what you just pointed out. It doesn't take good coaches 3 years to turn around an 8-8 team.

Black59Razor
08-13-2009, 05:11 PM
Then why wouldn't they be seperate?

They are easily seperated. One happened at a completely different time. The other only happened because our front office had 0 experience and had no clue how to deal with players.

Even if you assume the FO was competely to blame and made a 'mistake' as you say (I don't agree, and I place at least as much if not more blame on Cutler), what is to say they cannot learn from their 'mistake' and get better.

I really wonder what some of you guys are seeing. I look at McD and see the sam thing Bowlen did, a briliant young guy, full of energy and with a plan.

Most people that achieve great things, and most NFL teams have to go through adversity.

I don't believe for a second McD came in with the plan or idea of trading Cutler. I think it developed and he came to the realization the guy was going to be much more trouble than he is worth.

My problem is, there is ALOT that is assumed about Jay Cutler.

It is just taken for fact he is going to be a long term great QB.

It is taken for granted he is a true 'franchise' QB on par with Tom Brady and Peyton Manning.

The reality is, Jay Cutler has not proven a thing in this league.

Kaylore
08-13-2009, 05:16 PM
I'm more interested in seeing the team become more physical, improve in all phases and cut down on their mistakes. I want to see better scoring, more takeaways and less giveaways. And especially I'm tired of the special teams being crap. McDaniels inherited a team that was wretched and it's not his fault if it's not perfect from day one. If the team plays hard, cuts down on mistakes and isn't getting destroyed at home by division rivals, then I'll consider the season a success.

If we win less than six games then McDaniels should be on the hot seat. But he has a lot of leeway with the owner to get his system and personnel installed and running. Rome wasn't built in a day. If the special teams sucks at the end of the year he'll be more on my bad side than my good side.

jhns
08-13-2009, 05:19 PM
Even if you assume the FO was competely to blame and made a 'mistake' as you say (I don't agree, and I place at least as much if not more blame on Cutler), what is to say they cannot learn from their 'mistake' and get better.

I really wonder what some of you guys are seeing. I look at McD and see the sam thing Bowlen did, a briliant young guy, full of energy and with a plan.

Most people that achieve great things, and most NFL teams have to go through adversity.

I don't believe for a second McD came in with the plan or idea of trading Cutler. I think it developed and he came to the realization the guy was going to be much more trouble than he is worth.

My problem is, there is ALOT that is assumed about Jay Cutler.

It is just taken for fact he is going to be a long term great QB.

It is taken for granted he is a true 'franchise' QB on par with Tom Brady and Peyton Manning.

The reality is, Jay Cutler has not proven a thing in this league.

The front office are the only ones to blame for Cutler being gone. There is no other way of looking at it. Cutler can't trade himself or enter FA. It is against his contract and league rules. He did handle the situation poorly. So did the front office. The difference? Cutler handling it bad didn't hurt the team. It made him look like a dumbass. The front office handling it bad ended with us giving away our QB. This is all on the front office.

Getting in a dispute and giving away your good young QB is not the way to learn on the job. In fact, this is the NFL, learning on the job is NEVER an excuse. You come up through the ranks for a reason. Our mistake was letting McDaniels, who was never groomed to be a GM, play GM.

I agree he looks good as a coach. I liked him as our hire. I think he will be a great coach for some team that lets him coach and gives the GM duties to an actual GM. If we had an experienced GM with the actual GM role right now, we would also have Cutler.

If you don't think Cutler is good, that is you and you are probably happy then. I don't agree and I am not happy.

Anyways, it doesn't really matter what I think. I think the team actually has to get better to consider it improving. I'm not the owner though. I'm sure if we win 3 games he will still get another year or two. If anything just because the money situation.

Rohirrim
08-13-2009, 05:21 PM
8 and 8 I would consider a great success, but what is most important to me is how the team plays the last four games. If they are gassed and giving up and fighting each other (like last year), or even worse, laughing while they lose, then I see it as a failure. If they are playing hard, and playing together, and fighting to the last whistle, I'll probably feel pretty good.

Rohirrim
08-13-2009, 05:22 PM
The front office are the only ones to blame for Cutler being gone. There is no other way of looking at it. Cutler can't trade himself or enter FA. It is against his contract and league rules. He did handle the situation poorly. So did the front office. The difference? Cutler handling it bad didn't hurt the team. It made him look like a dumbass. The front office handling it bad ended with us giving away our QB. This is all on the front office.

Getting in a dispute and giving away your good young QB is not the way to learn on the job. In fact, this is the NFL, learning on the job is NEVER an excuse. You come up through the ranks for a reason. Our mistake was letting McDaniels, who was never groomed to be a GM, play GM.

I agree he looks good as a coach. I liked him as our hire. I think he will be a great coach for some team that lets him coach and gives the GM duties to an actual GM. If we had an experienced GM with the actual GM role right now, we would also have Cutler.

If you don't think Cutler is good, that is you and you are probably happy then. I don't agree and I am not happy.

Anyways, it doesn't really matter what I think. I think the team actually has to get better to consider it improving. I'm not the owner though. I'm sure if we win 3 games he will still get another year or two. If anything just because the money situation.

Nope. Wrong. It was totally Cutler's fault.

lex
08-13-2009, 05:44 PM
Wow, so few willing to tolerate losing. It could get really ugly this year. The booing at practice was only the beginning.

Houshyamama
08-13-2009, 05:44 PM
For me, the first thing every year is to finish with a higher record than the Chiefs. Living around all these idiots makes me want the Broncos to never have a worse record than the Chiefs (which hasn't set the bar very high lately).

In addition to this, thanks to getting drunk at the bar, I now have a bottle of Patron on the line that Denver will finish the season with a better record than Dallas.

:spit:

I had a bet with a girl here at work (in San Diego) over who would finish with a better record. I lost the tie breaker and had to wear a pink Rivers jersey to work. My friend who is also from Colorado then took it and wore it the next day but he is a big dude and his gut was hangin' way out as the jersey was meant for a girl. Hilarious.

Mr. Elway
08-14-2009, 08:50 AM
Sun, Sep 13 @ Cincinnati 1:00 PM
Sun, Sep 20 Cleveland 4:15 PM
Sun, Sep 27 @ Oakland 4:15 PM
Sun, Oct 4 Dallas 4:15 PM
Sun, Oct 11 New England 4:15 PM
Mon, Oct 19 @ San Diego 8:30 PM
BYE WEEK
Sun, Nov 1 @ Baltimore 1:00 PM
Mon, Nov 9 Pittsburgh 8:30 PM
Sun, Nov 15 @ Washington 1:00 PM
Sun, Nov 22 San Diego 4:15 PM
Thu, Nov 26 NY Giants 8:20 PM
Sun, Dec 6 @ Kansas City 1:00 PM
Sun, Dec 13 @ Indianapolis 1:00 PM
Sun, Dec 20 Oakland 4:05 PM
Sun, Dec 27 @ Philadelphia 1:00 PM
Sun, Jan 3 Kansas City


There 4 wins and I figure somewhere we steal a 5th thats it.

Last years team would be damn near the exact same IMHO

I only watched most of the first quarter but I thought Dallas looked really sloppy and weak overall in the preseason game at Oakland last night. Oakland looked like they were showing a couple of improvements to me (Russell esp) but I think mostly Dallas looked bad against a very mediocre Faid. Also there are reasons for Colts fans to be concerned about this year, and I am still not sold on Baltimore.

I guess I am just saying that some of those teams might not be as good as last year, and we might be able to steal some opportunistic wins. Or not! We'll see.

Popps
08-14-2009, 10:04 AM
Our success this year won't necessarily be determined by our record, in the big picture. A 6-10 season could be very positive and a 10-6 season could be misleading.

It's unrealistic to expect a playoff run as we clean up the prior administration's mess. So, there will be growing pains.

Again, as I've said for a few years now, I just want to see fundamentally sound football, and a team that gets stronger as the year goes on. Those are the first signs that you're building a championship caliber team. I want to see this team play hard, and gel by season's end. Yes, I'd love a good W/L record, but I just want to see the makings of a quality franchise come together. I want a sustainable, winning TEAM system in Denver again.

Drek
08-14-2009, 10:20 AM
If we don't win the Super Bowl we failed. Its as simple as that. You ask any player or coach working with the Broncos right now, they'll all tell you their goal is to win the Super Bowl. If it isn't they shouldn't be involved with the organization, period.

Having a successful offense, playing well, winning more than losing, those are the definitions of success people bandy about when they can't be honest and admit that they failed at their primary goal.

That said, while its tough to term it a "success" I'd be happy with a playoff appearance form the Broncos this year.

Hotrod
08-14-2009, 10:39 AM
If we don't win the Super Bowl we failed. Its as simple as that. You ask any player or coach working with the Broncos right now, they'll all tell you their goal is to win the Super Bowl. If it isn't they shouldn't be involved with the organization, period.

Having a successful offense, playing well, winning more than losing, those are the definitions of success people bandy about when they can't be honest and admit that they failed at their primary goal.

That said, while its tough to term it a "success" I'd be happy with a playoff appearance form the Broncos this year.

Ask any coach or player in any sport and they will tell you all kinds of bull****. How much of it they actually believe varies ;)

OrangeRising
08-14-2009, 10:48 AM
If the team doesn't improve it's record, what was the point of firing Shanahan? Getting rid of Slowik? That seems a little extreme.

McDaniels came in here spouting off a 'win now' philosophy. He wants 'his' guys', things done 'his' way. He blundered away a franchise QB, drafted a RB rather than defense at #12, handed off a top 10-to-15 draft pick for a nickel corner, drafted a blocking TE in the second round at the expense of the entire third round and trucked in a boatlaod of college FA's he hopes will fill the void on defense.

He says win now. He had better win. Now.

TailgateNut
08-14-2009, 10:59 AM
If the team doesn't improve it's record, what was the point of firing Shanahan? Getting rid of Slowik? That seems a little extreme.

McDaniels came in here spouting off a 'win now' philosophy. He wants 'his' guys', things done 'his' way. He blundered away a franchise QB, drafted a RB rather than defense at #12, handed off a top 10-to-15 draft pick for a nickel corner, drafted a blocking TE in the second round at the expense of the entire third round and trucked in a boatlaod of college FA's he hopes will fill the void on defense.

He says win now. He had better win. Now.

Shanahan, C untler and the sad sack team we had last year couldn't have improved last years' record playing the teams we face this year.

ScottXray
08-14-2009, 11:00 AM
If we make the playoffs this year I'd say that McD would be a major candidate for coach of the year, just based on how horrible we were last year on D. And if we get to 8-8 it would be a fantastic job anyway.

People that expect anything more than that are in denial of the fact that we just weren't a very good team the last few years.

If we just don't get blown out by any team this year that would be a major change from where we've been the last 2 years, and if Slowick were still running the D, two or more blow outs (losing by >28 points) were the norm.

Like Popps, I want to see a team that never lays down and quits, fighting to the end. Hopefully McD also has a Killer instinct and never lets up on a lead unless its the 4th quarter and the game is in the bag (the OTHER team has laid down and quit) with a big lead.

Hotrod
08-14-2009, 11:21 AM
If the team doesn't improve it's record, what was the point of firing Shanahan? Getting rid of Slowik? That seems a little extreme.
McDaniels came in here spouting off a 'win now' philosophy. He wants 'his' guys', things done 'his' way. He blundered away a franchise QB, drafted a RB rather than defense at #12, handed off a top 10-to-15 draft pick for a nickel corner, drafted a blocking TE in the second round at the expense of the entire third round and trucked in a boatlaod of college FA's he hopes will fill the void on defense.

He says win now. He had better win. Now.

Long term success

jhns
08-14-2009, 12:07 PM
So all of you already making excuses really don't make sense at all. We had the franchises worst ever defense last year. According to a lot of you excuse makers our offense was also horrible with that bad cutler guy leading it. Alls we did was turn it over every play......

You are now making excuses and saying we are successful this year even if we can't do better than last years pathetic team? I am still not getting it. "If we are worse than one of our worst ever teams then we are showing we are on the right track!"

Our defensive coordinator and) on last years team would win 10+ games this year. You are all just trying to convince yourselves we are still on the right track after our front office decided to set the team back 5 years.

Again, change may be needed but you still have to make the right changes. I will never understand those of you that love every move just because it is change. The raiturds owner thinks that about every year and look how it works for them.

TheDave
08-14-2009, 12:12 PM
Our success this year won't necessarily be determined by our record, in the big picture. A 6-10 season could be very positive...



Had he kept our 1st I would agree with you... Unfortunately he didn't, and because of that our record does carry significant meaning for this team and it's future.

Go 4-12 and lose the opportunity to draft a franchise type of player could set us back significantly.

Go 8-8 or better and the Al smith trade becomes a justifiable risk.

IMO McKidd and Xanders created a very different set of expectations with that move.

WolfpackGuy
08-14-2009, 12:17 PM
Not having that pick traded to Seattle for Alphonso Smith turn into a top 10 would qualify as a success.
I'm not expecting much with the schedule and Kyle Orton running the show.

TheDave
08-14-2009, 12:30 PM
Not having that pick traded to Seattle for Alphonso Smith turn into a top 10 would qualify as a success.
I'm not expecting much with the schedule and Kyle Orton running the show.

Yeah... cause adding a blue chip QB, NT, OLB or Safety to this team would just suck.

TheReverend
08-14-2009, 12:41 PM
Yeah... cause adding a blue chip QB, NT, OLB or Safety to this team would just suck.

I think you read that post wrong

TheDave
08-14-2009, 12:46 PM
I think you read that post wrong

oooppss... my bad.

kamakazi_kal
08-14-2009, 01:29 PM
If the team doesn't improve it's record, what was the point of firing Shanahan? Getting rid of Slowik? That seems a little extreme.

McDaniels came in here spouting off a 'win now' philosophy. He wants 'his' guys', things done 'his' way. He blundered away a franchise QB, drafted a RB rather than defense at #12, handed off a top 10-to-15 draft pick for a nickel corner, drafted a blocking TE in the second round at the expense of the entire third round and trucked in a boatlaod of college FA's he hopes will fill the void on defense.

He says win now. He had better win. Now.

REP. Your damn right the guy preached win now. That's how he got Dawkins on board.

kamakazi_kal
08-14-2009, 01:30 PM
Shanahan, C untler and the sad sack team we had last year couldn't have improved last years' record playing the teams we face this year.

Polish up that crystal ball and tell me what the score will be tonight so I can place my bet. Vegas has our W/L at 6.5 for the season.

Punisher
08-14-2009, 01:38 PM
If we win our division because that's the only way where going to the playoffs, is by winning the west.

baja
08-14-2009, 03:02 PM
Over 5 wins will be a wild success.


Anybody thinking we'll do any better is delusional.

I bet we win 10 games, wanta bet?

TheReverend
08-14-2009, 10:32 PM
I bet we win 10 games, wanta bet?

Yes

SureShot
08-14-2009, 10:39 PM
I bet we win 10 games, wanta bet?

I gotta get some of this action!

lazarus4444
08-14-2009, 10:39 PM
As long as they show up for every game and show heart and are well prepared then i'll consider that an improvement, regardless of record.

Ambiguous
08-14-2009, 10:40 PM
Orton throwing less than 5 picks a game?

spdirty
08-14-2009, 10:42 PM
What qualifies this season as successful?


A new coach after the year is over. Preferrably Mike Shanahan.

TheDave
08-14-2009, 11:35 PM
I bet we win 10 games, wanta bet?

I'm in... Loser donates $20 to the Mane.

Good?

listopencil
08-14-2009, 11:58 PM
Less than 64 INT's by Orton.

atomicbloke
08-15-2009, 02:46 AM
I think we should lose out this season to get a better draft pick...... oh wait.....

SureShot
08-15-2009, 02:51 AM
i think we should lose out this season to get a better draft pick...... Oh wait.....

24652

DBroncos4life
08-15-2009, 02:56 AM
24652

gay

SureShot
08-15-2009, 02:58 AM
gay

Its funny

DBroncos4life
08-15-2009, 03:03 AM
Its funny

I guess thats what happens when you are better then other teams for 30 years.

SureShot
08-15-2009, 03:05 AM
I guess thats what happens when you are better then other teams for 30 years.

Well French was the language of the world at one time so.....I would get used to a new standard.

rastaman
08-15-2009, 07:16 AM
Bowlen you gutless trunk!!!!!