Stephen Hawking - "I wouldn't be here today...

[frerottenextelway]

It's amazing how f'd up and wrong the rightards can be, but this one may take the cake.

There was a recent op-ed in the Investor's Business Daily (you can see the embarrassingly edited piece here (http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=333933006516877)) that stated:

The controlling of medical costs in countries such as Britain through rationing, and the health consequences thereof, are legendary. The stories of people dying on a waiting list or being denied altogether read like a horror script ... People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the UK, where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless.

Of course, the one minor problem with that is Hawking was born in and resides in England.

Hawking was asked for his response on the piece (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/aug/12/birthers-stephen-hawking-paul-rowen) and said:

I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the NHS. I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived.

For those that may not know, Hawking is a physicist (arguably the smartest man on the planet) who has been battling ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease) for 45 years - I believe the longest survivor of the disease.

[Bronx33]

yep ( some people ) are stupid.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I wonder if he would have received that treatment for this long if he werent Stephen Hawking.

[Garcia Bronco]

I wonder if he would have received that treatment for this long if he werent Stephen Hawking.

Exactly. He's economically viable.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Exactly. He's economically viable.

...and he's one of Britain's greatest faces. He's a marketing device.

[AbileneBroncoFan]

But he doesn't believe in Adam and Eve, Noah's ark, or that a virgin gave birth to a god. How smart and useful for society can he really be?

Seriously? Nowhere in the proposed health care reform does anything even close to resembling **** like this. Of course, the people who believe it does are also the same people who believe Obama is not a US citizen (but is a Muslim communist) and that the sun revolves around the Earth. Turn off Hanity and listen to someone who is actually educated enough to discuss serious matters. When you want to throw tea in a river or go to a concert with bad music, he's your guy. Pretty much every other time of the year, he is no more qualified to interpret this than any of us. I guarantee you there are people who post on this board who understand health care better than clowns like him.

[epicSocialism4tw]

But he doesn't believe in Adam and Eve, Noah's ark, or that a virgin gave birth to a god. How smart and useful for society can he really be?

Seriously? Nowhere in the proposed health care reform does anything even close to resembling **** like this. Of course, the people who believe it does are also the same people who believe Obama is not a US citizen (but is a Muslim communist) and that the sun revolves around the Earth. Turn off Hanity and listen to someone who is actually educated enough to discuss serious matters. When you want to throw tea in a river or go to a concert with bad music, he's your guy. Pretty much every other time of the year, he is no more qualified to interpret this than any of us. I guarantee you there are people who post on this board who understand health care better than clowns like him.

I'm certainly no fan of Hannity or any of those other clowns, but he has dug up more information than just about all of the mainstream media combined. Those idiots are unapologetic shills who try to paint themselves as unbiased. At least clowns like Hannity and Limbaugh have respect enough for their audiences to present themselves as what they are. You cant say the same for the NBC, CBS, PBS, or ABC national and local affiliates across the country. Those people think that the populace should be talked to and directed like children...it shows their arrogance...the same arrogance projected by the democratic party at large. They all believe that the populace are to be controlled and manipulated with propaganda and policy.

[Garcia Bronco]

But he doesn't believe in Adam and Eve, Noah's ark, or that a virgin gave birth to a god. How smart and useful for society can he really be?



You need to come to grip with the fact that most people believe in some higher form of power. And whether they are right or wrong, you still need to show them some respect least you get none for yourself.

[TailgateNut]

You need to come to grip with the fact that most people believe in some higher form of power. And whether they are right or wrong, you still need to show them some respect least you get none for yourself.

Wrong!

I think that people who believe in fairy tales are nuts, and believe they should get some help. At a minimum, be tested for drug abuse.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Wrong!

I think that people who believe in fairy tales are nuts, and believe they should get some help. At a minimum, be tested for drug abuse.

What was that thing about living in glass houses and throwing stones? I cant seem to remember...maybe you can refresh my memory since this seems to be your current situation.

[Rohirrim]

I'm certainly no fan of Hannity or any of those other clowns, but he has dug up more information than just about all of the mainstream media combined. Those idiots are unapologetic shills who try to paint themselves as unbiased. At least clowns like Hannity and Limbaugh have respect enough for their audiences to present themselves as what they are. You cant say the same for the NBC, CBS, PBS, or ABC national and local affiliates across the country. Those people think that the populace should be talked to and directed like children...it shows their arrogance...the same arrogance projected by the democratic party at large. They all believe that the populace are to be controlled and manipulated with propaganda and policy.

Who's programming who? Hannity and Limbaugh respect nothing but their paychecks. I can see why Rush would be doing what he can to protect Big Pharma. I'm sure he feels a sense of obligation toward them. :rofl:

[TailgateNut]

What was that thing about living in glass houses and throwing stones? I cant seem to remember...maybe you can refresh my memory since this seems to be your current situation.

I'm not the one listening to burning bushes. Back in the 70's maybe.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I'm not the one listening to burning bushes. Back in the 70's maybe.

So...less burning bushes for you in recent days and lots, lots, lots more fermented hops. Hilarious!

[TailgateNut]

So...less burning bushes for you in recent days and lots, lots, lots more fermented hops. Hilarious!

Actually less fermented hops and more well aged scotch. I'm watching my wonderful figure.:wiggle:

[epicSocialism4tw]

Who's programming who? Hannity and Limbaugh respect nothing but their paychecks. I can see why Rush would be doing what he can to protect Big Pharma. I'm sure he feels a sense of obligation toward them.

Ah...so I see that the conspiracy theories are becoming considered common knowledge by the left. That's a good way to dumb down the national conversation. Next, you guys will be saying that the next republican in line for office is an alien lizard person sent here to control the human race. That is, if most of you dont already believe that.

Limbaugh makes big bucks, but I think that he makes most of it through his advertising worth. Alot of people listen to his show.

Like them or not, the Hannity's and Limbaughs of the world contribute information to the public that absolutely would not be touched by the puppeteers at ABC, CBS, NBC, or the hyper-liberal PBS. Like I said, I dont like either of them. Rush is an arrogant jerk, and Hannity is annoying.

I do like Dennis Prager though...he talks philosophy on every show of his that I've ever heard. Interesting stuff.

[Bob]

It's amazing how f'd up and wrong the rightards can be, but this one may take the cake.

There was a recent op-ed in the Investor's Business Daily (you can see the embarrassingly edited piece here (http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=333933006516877)) that stated:



Of course, the one minor problem with that is Hawking was born in and resides in England.

Hawking was asked for his response on the piece (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/aug/12/birthers-stephen-hawking-paul-rowen) and said:



For those that may not know, Hawking is a physicist (arguably the smartest man on the planet) who has been battling ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease) for 45 years - I believe the longest survivor of the disease.

I'm glad he's till kicking -- but if he had an average IQ, how would his access to services and quality differed? In a more extreme example, in the former USSR, those the state deemed important got quicker and better services, this is nothing new. Somehow, I think that no matter how bad things get in America, that Congress will retain their excellant care, which by the way is privately run from what I understand.

[Bob]

Ah...so I see that the conspiracy theories are becoming considered common knowledge by the left. That's a good way to dumb down the national conversation. Next, you guys will be saying that the next republican in line for office is an alien lizard person sent here to control the human race. That is, if most of you dont already believe that.

Limbaugh makes big bucks, but I think that he makes most of it through his advertising worth. Alot of people listen to his show.

Like them or not, the Hannity's and Limbaughs of the world contribute information to the public that absolutely would not be touched by the puppeteers at ABC, CBS, NBC, or the hyper-liberal PBS. Like I said, I dont like either of them. Rush is an arrogant jerk, and Hannity is annoying.

I do like Dennis Prager though...he talks philosophy on every show of his that I've ever heard. Interesting stuff.

I wonder if he is really so screwed up, that he thinks that everyone protesting or speaking publicly is on the payroll? With a few exceptions, serious journalism is dead in this country -- and the further they fall in ratings the more they will need to be in the tank to Big Brother. I wonder when Major Garret (sp) ill get canned? We cant have anyone in the mainstream asking tough questions after all.

[frerottenextelway]

I'm glad he's till kicking -- but if he had an average IQ, how would his access to services and quality differed? In a more extreme example, in the former USSR, those the state deemed important got quicker and better services, this is nothing new. Somehow, I think that no matter how bad things get in America, that Congress will retain their excellant care, which by the way is privately run from what I understand.

When he was diagnosed he was a 21 yr old college student.

[Fedaykin]

You need to come to grip with the fact that most people believe in some higher form of power. And whether they are right or wrong, you still need to show them some respect least you get none for yourself.

What's required is respecting people's right to have any belief they want. What's not required is respecting the beliefs themselves. Like people, beliefs have to earn respect. They earn respect my demonstrating their validity.

If you expect me to respect your beliefs, demonstrate their validity. Do you reject that an idea must demonstrate validity to deserve respect? If so, what's your opinion on a rapist who believes it is his right and duty to rape women? Do his ideas command respect simply because he has them?

[orinjkrush]

I, for one, can't figure his second coming of Newton status.

Black holes?

Ok.

Oakland?

[TexanBob]

I'm not the one listening to burning bushes. Back in the 70's maybe.

No, but you listen to global warming prophets like Al Gore and other known liars. You're simply choosing one religion (enviromentalism) over another.

[frerottenextelway]

You need to come to grip with the fact that most people believe in some higher form of power. And whether they are right or wrong, you still need to show them some respect least you get none for yourself.

This is true. I'm athiest (or maybe agnostic, I dunno, w/e), but even for a wannabe science geek like me, science does not disprove a higher power or come close to such. It does however, disprove major religions such as Christianity (which gets noted since that's the world I've been born into and can speak of).

But a higher power, the true origin of everything, both sides should be given respect. Neither position in that respect mocks science as we know it.

[AbileneBroncoFan]

I'm certainly no fan of Hannity or any of those other clowns, but he has dug up more information than just about all of the mainstream media combined. Those idiots are unapologetic shills who try to paint themselves as unbiased. At least clowns like Hannity and Limbaugh have respect enough for their audiences to present themselves as what they are. You cant say the same for the NBC, CBS, PBS, or ABC national and local affiliates across the country. Those people think that the populace should be talked to and directed like children...it shows their arrogance...the same arrogance projected by the democratic party at large. They all believe that the populace are to be controlled and manipulated with propaganda and policy.

But most of it is inaccurate or exaggerated (or in the case of Fox, made up) information. The idea of "death squads" simply is not true in any way, shape, or form. I'm all for presenting your beliefs, but it is unethical and dangerous to do so in a manner that is not consistent with truth.

As for talking to the public as children...they should. I hate to rain on the parade of "Americans are the greatest people in the world," but we are not a very mature, responsible, or intelligent country. More people can name the American Idol judges than can name the 3 branches of government. Most people can't name their senator or representative. Yet we expect them to be able to understand something as complex as the health system? The problem with American citizens as a whole is not that they are unintelligent, it's that they simply don't care. Most people care much more about what's happening with Jon and Kate or with Michael Jackson's kids than they do with what's happening on capitol hill. If the people as a whole want to be taken seriously, then they need to get serious.

As for propaganda, it is funny that Republicans (the masters of propaganda and slogans) bring that up. They are very good at tearing down liberal's war records or religious beliefs (John Kerry showed more bravery in service to his country than George Bush could ever hoped to have...you have to actually go into combat to exhibit combat bravery; Jimmy Carter was a decorated officer in the United States Navy and Ronald Reagan never fought a day in his life). The point is, our political sphere has become a he said, he said game for the majority of the public. Everyone takes their pre-conceived notions into elections, votes pretty much on party or regional lines, and believes the stereotypes about candidates from both parties. The parties are to blame for this to a great extent, but the people should also be demanding better from them and we don't.

[AbileneBroncoFan]

You need to come to grip with the fact that most people believe in some higher form of power. And whether they are right or wrong, you still need to show them some respect least you get none for yourself.

I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. People who do not go around talking to God all the time are the outcasts of society (even though about 15% of Americans do not have a religious belief). Faith and character are mutually exclusive. I will not call someone an idiot for having faith in God. I will call them an idiot if I think they are an idiot. I know many Christians who are great, intelligent people and happen to be most of my best friends. I know others who couldn't walk accross the street with a map. I also know atheists/deists who are some of the smartest and kindest people I've ever met. Others are douche bags. People should only be judged by what they do, not what they believe.

That being said, I will not accept religious reasoning in scientific, legal, or political debate. These things should be based on concrete evidence that all people can see, study, and accept for themselves.

[TailgateNut]

No, but you listen to global warming prophets like Al Gore and other known liars. You're simply choosing one religion (enviromentalism) over another.

Good grief, you ****ing Texans (except a few) are just plain STUPID. I guess the further south you go, the worse it gets.

[kappys]

I'm glad he's till kicking -- but if he had an average IQ, how would his access to services and quality differed? In a more extreme example, in the former USSR, those the state deemed important got quicker and better services, this is nothing new. Somehow, I think that no matter how bad things get in America, that Congress will retain their excellant care, which by the way is privately run from what I understand.

Let me assure you that the US is no different. At one point we had a well connected political personage come to our hospital emergency dept for a mild hand injury which was attended by the department chair of orthopedics in a very rapid fashion. You would have gotten a quick look from a PA, probably after a decent wait.

[TailgateNut]

, I will not accept religious reasoning in scientific, legal, or political debate. These things should be based on concrete evidence that all people can see, study, and accept for themselves.

:thumbsup:

[epicSocialism4tw]

But most of it is inaccurate or exaggerated (or in the case of Fox, made up) information. The idea of "death squads" simply is not true in any way, shape, or form. I'm all for presenting your beliefs, but it is unethical and dangerous to do so in a manner that is not consistent with truth.

Dan Rather is the ultimate example of this. His use of propaganda was so egregious that even his liberal parent company had to cut the cord.

As for talking to the public as children...they should. I hate to rain on the parade of "Americans are the greatest people in the world," but we are not a very mature, responsible, or intelligent country. More people can name the American Idol judges than can name the 3 branches of government. Most people can't name their senator or representative. Yet we expect them to be able to understand something as complex as the health system? The problem with American citizens as a whole is not that they are unintelligent, it's that they simply don't care. Most people care much more about what's happening with Jon and Kate or with Michael Jackson's kids than they do with what's happening on capitol hill. If the people as a whole want to be taken seriously, then they need to get serious.

I think that your response speaks in large part to the major difference between parties. The heart of fiscal conservativism is found in small-to-medium sized businesses who are trying to fight against taxation and government regulation to grow or to maintain a certain level of profit. These people are certainly educated on the issues they vote on, because their bottom line butts up against them every day.

These are also the people who want the government to get out of their pockets because they want the freedom to do what they want with their money. Its not like state and federal governments dont see enough tax money from them.

This is also why there is a social/fiscal conservative base that republicans have pandered to and depended on for years that is beginning to erode. The last administration was liberal in its financial policies. Bush had many liberal tendancies.

I think that Obama was elected in large part by the uneducated, young folks who are just the type of people that you say need to be controlled by the government. I say that nobody should be controlled by the government, and that is exactly what our constitution tries to establish. I say that communist ideas like propagandistic control of the underclass should be left for lesser morally bankrupt nations, and not for a great nation like the United States.