Obama compares his health plan to the post office

[Garcia Bronco]

Does Obama understand that the post office posts a negative balance of around 7 billion a year? In his NH speech, the President wanted to bolster the idea that private business will still compete with a Governemnt plan. So he talks about UPS and FedEx being in the market place. Except it was a mistake to even bring it up. Where FedEx and UPS post yearly profits, the post office posts and yearly deficit. Mister President is sounding like Bush. Except Bush isn't as close to being as educated as Obama, which IMO makes what Obama says all the more scary.

"I mean, if you think about it, UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? No, they are. It's the post office that's always having problems."

[Rohirrim]

Ooops! Full of **** again:

Under federal law, only the Postal Service can handle or charge postage for handling letters. Despite this virtual monopoly worth some $45 billion a year, the law does not require that the Postal Service make a profit -- only break even. Still, the US Postal Service has averaged a profit of over $1 billion per year in each of the last five years. Yet, Postal Service officials argue that they must continue to raise postage at regular intervals in order make up for the increased use of email.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/consumerawareness/a/uspsabout.htm

[Garcia Bronco]

Ooops! Full of **** again:

Under federal law, only the Postal Service can handle or charge postage for handling letters. Despite this virtual monopoly worth some $45 billion a year, the law does not require that the Postal Service make a profit -- only break even. Still, the US Postal Service has averaged a profit of over $1 billion per year in each of the last five years. Yet, Postal Service officials argue that they must continue to raise postage at regular intervals in order make up for the increased use of email.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/consumerawareness/a/uspsabout.htm

And yet the Post OFFICE itself said it lost 2.4 billion this year from April to June.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/05/national/main5216012.shtml

(AP) The post office says it lost $2.4 billion from April to June.

That brings the year's losses so far to $4.7 billion. And the Postal Service expects to be $7 billion in the red when the fiscal year ends on Sept. 30. The stark figures come from a decline in mail volume as people rely more on e-mail, plus a dip in advertising mail because of the recession.

In an effort to reduce costs, the agency has proposed closing several hundred local post offices, has asked Congress for permission to reduce mail delivery to five days a week, and has reduced hours at many offices.

[Rohirrim]

Americans have an overwhelmingly favorable view of the United States Postal Service, as four in five (79%) say that they feel positive about it, including 47% who say very positive. Fewer than one in ten (9%) have negative feelings about the USPS, and 12% are neutral. Midwesterners are the most favorable (89% very or somewhat positive), whereas those in the western United States feel slightly less favorable (71%). Unlike all other delivery services and methods tested, the United States Postal Service has 100% name recognition among Americans.
http://www.treas.gov/offices/domestic-finance/usps/pdf/report2.pdf

[Garcia Bronco]

Americans have an overwhelmingly favorable view of the United States Postal Service, as four in five (79%) say that they feel positive about it, including 47% who say very positive. Fewer than one in ten (9%) have negative feelings about the USPS, and 12% are neutral. Midwesterners are the most favorable (89% very or somewhat positive), whereas those in the western United States feel slightly less favorable (71%). Unlike all other delivery services and methods tested, the United States Postal Service has 100% name recognition among Americans.
http://www.treas.gov/offices/domestic-finance/usps/pdf/report2.pdf

I bet they don't know it loses vast amounhts of money yearly and only half way limps along by pumping your mailbox full of junk mail.

[Rigs11]

the rightards are always screaming about free market and how the system regulates itself, and now they are worried about the private inurance companies going under. Which is it?

[Rohirrim]

Do you also realize that if Medicare did not exist, our entire health care system would have crashed a long time ago?

[Rohirrim]

I bet they don't know it loses vast amounhts of money yearly and only half way limps along by pumping your mailbox full of junk mail.

And yet, if you tried to shut it down, Americans would probably be screaming like that guy that doesn't want the government to touch his Medicare.

I think what is becoming more and more clear for me is that you are one of those people who has no interest in creating and maintaining a society which most benefits the needs of all while preserving individual liberty, as the founders were interested in creating. You want a dog-eat-dog world where the strong win and the weak are eaten. Maybe you should move out onto the African savannah? ;D

[Garcia Bronco]

the rightards are always screaming about free market and how the system regulates itself, and now they are worried about the private inurance companies going under. Which is it?

If the the body or system that creates laws is involved it's not a "Free Market" because that body can rig the rules at anytime and leave no check or balance to appeal to.

This is civics 101 today.

[Garcia Bronco]

Do you also realize that if Medicare did not exist, our entire health care system would have crashed a long time ago?

And that has nothing to do with the dumb**** Obama said in NH.

[Garcia Bronco]

And yet, if you tried to shut it down, Americans would probably be screaming like that guy that doesn't want the government to touch his Medicare.



Again, nothing to do with the topic at hand. Just be intellectually honest, and this goes for the other poster as well, that Obama stepped in it.

[Rigs11]

If the the body or system that creates laws is involved it's not a "Free Market" because that body can rig the rules at anytime and leave no check or balance to appeal to.

This is civics 101 today.

Which goes exactly to what obama was saying about the post office. These companies did not go under regardless of wehter the post office was around.

[Garcia Bronco]

Which goes exactly to what obama was saying about the post office. These companies did not go under regardless of wehter the post office was around.

But if the other two operated like the post office they would go under. They'd be out of business. Obama actually made the points of the opposition valid.

[Rohirrim]

Again, nothing to do with the topic at hand. Just be intellectually honest, and this goes for the other poster as well, that Obama stepped in it.

Fedex's net income dropped 75% in the third quarter as well. The world is shifting over to email. There may not be a future for snail mail of any type.

The reason I post the Medicare note is that Obama is using an analogy. The point is, if Medicare did not exist, our health care system would have already crashed. Think about that for a moment. If not for Medicare, those CEOs in the health care industry would not be making hundreds of millions of dollars and building themselves palaces, like the UHC CEO is.

[Garcia Bronco]

Fedex's net income dropped 75% in the third quarter as well. The world is shifting over to email. There may not be a future for snail mail of any type.

The reason I post the Medicare note is that Obama is using an analogy. The point is, if Medicare did not exist, our health care system would have already crashed. Think about that for a moment. If not for Medicare, those CEOs in the health care industry would not be making hundreds of millions of dollars and building themselves palaces, like the UHC CEO is.

If medicare didn't exist we wouldn't have the governemnt financial sink hole we have today. You just made that point.

[Garcia Bronco]

Fedex's net income dropped 75% in the third quarter as well. The world is shifting over to email. There may not be a future for snail mail of any type.



Ahhh you do realize that Q3 isn't over and the past 3 months has seen FDX stick go from 40 to 68 dollars a share since the crash. They are making money and good.

[Rigs11]

But if the other two operated like the post office they would go under. They'd be out of business. Obama actually made the points of the opposition valid.

How so? people choose to ship with fed ex over the post office.Free market and healthcare don't work anyways. the doctors are trying to make money so they charge for unneccessary surgeries, the insurance companies are trying to make money so they refuse treatment or coverage for existing conditions.What do you propose?

[Garcia Bronco]

How so? people choose to ship with fed ex over the post office.Free market and healthcare don't work anyways. the doctors are trying to make money so they charge for unneccessary surgeries, the insurance companies are trying to make money so they refuse treatment or coverage for existing conditions.What do you propose?

So you agree the post office is insolvent. That's the point. Why should we expect different from a Governemnt Controled healthcare plan. You give these jackholes complete control over healthcare and I swear you'll be even more sorry than before.

I propose regulating what doctors and hospitals can charge and regulate what can and cannot go into the contract between an insurance company and insuree.

[Rohirrim]

If medicare didn't exist we wouldn't have the governemnt financial sink hole we have today. You just made that point.

You're missing the point. If all those people were uninsured, the system would have crashed long ago. Medicare is propping up the market for the health care industry to rake in its profit.

[Garcia Bronco]

You're missing the point. If all those people were uninsured, the system would have crashed long ago. Medicare is propping up the market for the health care industry to rake in its profit.

And if not for the insolvent crutch that is medicare we might have better expectations and a better system in place because the market would have corrected itself.

[Mr.Meanie]

I propose regulating what doctors and hospitals can charge and regulate what can and cannot go into the contract between an insurance company and insuree.

That's alot of regulation of the free markets...

[rastaman]

Garcia, you still can't justify the state of private for profit healtcare who are not in the business of providing healthcare, rather they are in the business of collecting pure profits by denying coverage.

Profits at 10 of the country’s largest publicly traded health insurance companies rose 428 percent from 2000 to 2007, while consumers paid more for less coverage. One of the major reasons, according to a new study, is the growing lack of competition in the private health insurance industry that has led to near monopoly conditions in many markets.

In the past 13 years, more than 400 corporate mergers have involved health insurers, and a small number of companies now dominate local markets but haven’t delivered on promises of increased efficiency. According to the American Medical Association, 94 percent of insurance markets in the United States are now highly concentrated, and insurers are thriving in the anti-competitive marketplace, raking in enormous profits and paying out huge CEO salaries.

These mergers and consolidations have created a marketplace where a small number of larger companies use their power to raise premiums—an average of 87 percent over the past six years—restrict and reduce benefit packages and control and cut provider payments.

Simply put, the private insurance companies have secured monopolies or tight oligopolies and exercised that power to put profits ahead of patients….There were no actions taken against anticompetitive conduct by health insurers in the last administration, in spite of the fact that cases by state attorneys general have secured massive fines against these insurers. A lack of antitrust enforcement has enabled insurers to acquire dominant positions in almost every metropolitan market.

Many dominant insurers limit the ability of providers to choose rival insurers or inform patients about more efficient and comprehensive coverage. The DOJ should investigate tools used to stifle competition such as physician gag clauses, most favored nations provisions, all-products clauses, and silent networks, which prevent providers and consumers from having the full range of competitive alternatives.

http://blog.aflcio.org/2009/05/27/health-insurance-profits-soar-as-industry-mergers-create-near-monopoly/

[Garcia Bronco]

Garcia, you still can't justify the state of private for profit healtcare who are not in the business of providing healthcare, rather they are in the business of collecting pure profits by denying coverage.



You are talking about insurance. Not healthcare. And I can justify insurance. It's a good thing for castastropic loss. The problem is these days insurance is being used for items it was never intended for and our medical care infrastructure is poorly designed. We can fix these things without the government taking over some 18 percent of the economy.

[Garcia Bronco]

That's alot of regulation of the free markets...


If you want lower costs it's where you have to start. At the foundation.

[TailgateNut]

You are talking about insurance. Not healthcare. And I can justify insurance. It's a good thing for castastropic loss. The problem is these days insurance is being used for items it was never intended for and our medical care infrastructure is poorly designed. We can fix these things without the government taking over some 18 percent of the economy.


:spit: You're right. Insurance IS being used for ITEMS it was never intended for.

It's being used by the INSURANCE COMPANIES to make ridculous PROFITS. That's the part of the problem. No one expects them to insure someone without a profit margin which will sustain their company and shareholders/ investors, but they have managed to twist and manipulate insurance policies and premiums to the point where we need to ask ourselves if their acts are not negligent or criminal.

[Garcia Bronco]

:spit: You're right. Insurance IS being used for ITEMS it was never intended for.

It's being used by the INSURANCE COMPANIES to make ridculous PROFITS. That's the part of the problem. No one expects them to insure someone without a profit margin which will sustain their company and shareholders/ investors, but they have managed to twist and manipulate insurance policies and premiums to the point where we need to ask ourselves if their acts are not negligent or criminal.

They are not criminal. Abuses occur, but generally there is nothing criminal about what the do. But I think you understood my point and I won't insult you by explaining it again

[TailgateNut]

They are not criminal. Abuses occur, but generally there is nothing criminal about what the do. But I think you understood my point and I won't insult you by explaining it again

Call the vicious cycle what you wish. I call it criminal manipulation of a service which is required for a happy and healthy life.

The Hospitals raise their prices to "criminal" levels and in turn the insurance companies either raise their rates or exclude coverages which would lower their "criminal" profit margins.

I've seen the charges for simple office visists. The nurse takes your temp, checks your pulse and enter a few select answers to a few select questions on your chart,
Then you sit in the exam room for 45 minutes waiting for the doctor to arrive (this is by design). The doctor arrives, spend five minutes probing and prodding and leaves. He return to prescribe your "fix" and promptly moves on to the next VICTIM.
You exit the clinic paying your moderate co-pay.

In the background, out of sight, the billing dept send a bill to the insurance carrier for 2 hrs exam room, 1 nurse for 2 hrs, 1 doctor for 2 hours, and all of the overpriced medical apparatus and supplies "used" during your visit which in reality occupied a total of 15 minutes of their time.

Further in the background, the insurance carrier recieves the invoice and decides to jack the rates even higher to compensate for the obvious medical conditions of their client.

****ed, ****ed and ****ed without any grease.

[Rigs11]

You are talking about insurance. Not healthcare. And I can justify insurance. It's a good thing for castastropic loss. The problem is these days insurance is being used for items it was never intended for and our medical care infrastructure is poorly designed. We can fix these things without the government taking over some 18 percent of the economy.

How about when insurance companies deny coverage to those with existing medical problems, or deny treatment?

[Garcia Bronco]

How about when insurance companies deny coverage to those with existing medical problems, or deny treatment?

Under the law they can deny you coverage for a pre-existing condition unless you belong to a group plan. Change the law. This doesn't require governemnt take over of the industry of insurance or healthcare.

[Garcia Bronco]

Call the vicious cycle what you wish. I call it criminal manipulation of a service which is required for a happy and healthy life.

The Hospitals raise their prices to "criminal" levels and in turn the insurance companies either raise their rates or exclude coverages which would lower their "criminal" profit margins.

I've seen the charges for simple office visists. The nurse takes your temp, checks your pulse and enter a few select answers to a few select questions on your chart,
Then you sit in the exam room for 45 minutes waiting for the doctor to arrive (this is by design). The doctor arrives, spend five minutes probing and prodding and leaves. He return to prescribe your "fix" and promptly moves on to the next VICTIM.
You exit the clinic paying your moderate co-pay.

In the background, out of sight, the billing dept send a bill to the insurance carrier for 2 hrs exam room, 1 nurse for 2 hrs, 1 doctor for 2 hours, and all of the overpriced medical apparatus and supplies "used" during your visit which in reality occupied a total of 15 minutes of their time.

Further in the background, the insurance carrier recieves the invoice and decides to jack the rates even higher to compensate for the obvious medical conditions of their client.

****ed, ****ed and ****ed without any grease.

I agree you example is a problem. That's why the government needs to regulate what the doctors can charge. This doesn't require government to take over the entire industry.

[TailgateNut]

I agree you example is a problem. That's why the government needs to regulate what the doctors can charge. This doesn't require government to take over the entire industry.

What about the insurance companies, the pharma's, therapists, specialists, long term care providers, and other related rip off artists.

[Bronx33]

Ooops! Full of **** again:

Under federal law, only the Postal Service can handle or charge postage for handling letters. Despite this virtual monopoly worth some $45 billion a year, the law does not require that the Postal Service make a profit -- only break even. Still, the US Postal Service has averaged a profit of over $1 billion per year in each of the last five years. Yet, Postal Service officials argue that they must continue to raise postage at regular intervals in order make up for the increased use of email.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/consumerawareness/a/uspsabout.htm


When did al gore invent the internet? :P


http://www.akdart.com/postrate.html

[Rigs11]

Under the law they can deny you coverage for a pre-existing condition unless you belong to a group plan. Change the law. This doesn't require governemnt take over of the industry of insurance or healthcare.

who changes the laws?and explain takeover.

[Garcia Bronco]

who changes the laws?and explain takeover.

Congress changes and makes the federal laws in this country

Take over. Governemnt is currently in the process of trying to take over the healhcare industry which relates to roughly 18 percent of the economy.

[Garcia Bronco]

What about the insurance companies, the pharma's, therapists, specialists, long term care providers, and other related rip off artists.

The next thing we need to regulate is tort. While tort payout represent a very small amount of health care costs in this country...medical malpractice premiums for hospitials and doctors contrbute a great deal to the cost. We need to somehow fix that I don't have an answer at this time. PAtients need to be compensated in issues of medical malpractice, but those premiums don't need to be passed on to EVERY customer.