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View Full Version : 8.11 Am Camp report Khan and whoever else may have been there.


Kaylore
08-11-2009, 11:46 AM
Today was very hot. The early morning practices the sun is beating down on you pretty harsh. Even harder for the players who were noticeably fatigued on a few occasions trying to move through drills. The good news was Ryan Harris was back on the field and he looked himself after the scare from yesterday. So the good news is whatever happened to him appears to be minor.

The practice was full pads and they spent a good portion working on very specific drills and packages in preparation for the 49ers this Friday night. They did quite a bit of scout work for the offense and defense where scout team players would don colored jerseys bearing the numbers of the players that they needed to key on (Gore, Staley, Brandon Jones, Vernon Davis, etc.)

Interestingly, Nolan put a 4-3 package on the field as his base rotating DT's in. Haggan, DJ and Davis were the linebackers. The team did ok at containing the run but had some issues containing the toss plays to the outside. They ran plays off a sheet in what I can only assume was what they anticipate Niners to run; Lots of runs, some QB scrambles and a few quick passes.

The offense got it's chance to attack the defense. Nolan probably helped here and had them run a few packages that he expects Singletary to run. We ran a lot of hitches, digs and curl routes in anticipation of a 3-4 blitz scheme. Royal was allowed to run some option routes. They didn't really run any situational drills, which is the first I've seen them forgo this in favor of prep work for the game. Anyway, let's get to the body of the report.

QB: Orton received some good coaching from McDaniels today on anticipating throws to receivers. Sometimes he waits too long to throw and McDaniels helped him to work on throwing before the receiver was open so that as he released the ball would arrive on time. This was critical for comeback and hitch routes because if you wait your receiver is going to get killed. He did a really nice job of looking guys off today, something I hadn't seen him do much to this point, and that was encouraging. He's getting better down field chemistry with Royal, but I suspect he's still weeks away for that deep connection to be a more solid thing. However they are both close. Simms looked better today but he still loses his accuracy on throws over 15 to 20 yards. He tends to miss high, I've noticed. He is a better QB on the run than Orton, but other than that Orton is the clear starter. Brandstater did better today. He got a lot of work because he was the scout team QB. Mostly he threw a lot of screens and dump offs but he did run a designed scramble on one play.

TE: All the tight ends had struggles today. Graham had a drop. Quinn had several drops and got destroyed in a few blocking assignments. He looked like his head was spinning because in a lot of pre-snap he was looking around. Scheffler did ok but I saw him have one bobble. He did snare a nice pass on screen play. Marquez Branson was the only TE that didn't have any huge screw ups.

Receiver: Royal is going to be crazy good this year. I know I've been in trouble for making predictions before, but he is just so polished. He had one would-be long TD that Andre Goodman broke up at the last minute. It was a beautifully placed ball and just a good play by Goodman. On another play Orton barely over threw Royal for a similar deep bomb. Off his fingertips. Very close. On some scrimmaging later in the practice, Royal did a nice job settling into a zone and getting vertical to take a bullet from Orton. He also broke a few ankles on a nice screen play. McKinley had similar play as well. He leaped over Moulton and came down in traffic for a good grab. Jackson and Gaffney had their moments as well. Jackson got a lot of work.

RB: Moreno looks great. He did all the things I expected him to do well (Catch, block and make guys miss in space). There was a blitz where the safety came through and Moreno nailed and pushed him back. There was not a lot of pressure at all this practice so the protection in general was very good. Buckhalter had a hard time getting a lot of runs up the middle this time. Hillis had a few good plays. They used him on a double screen once and he made some nice moves after the catch. They move him around quite a bit and let him run, catch and block. I think despite depth chart that Hillis will be heavily utilized in this offense.

O-line: Kuper had a good practice. :) I saw him block Fields one on one and he only took one half step back to anchor. It was good. Harris looked fine. It didn't appear he was hurt at all. I rarely got to see Clady other than when they had him be "Joe Staley" during the scout team work. He dominated. Broncobuff will be pleased to note that Pollubus had a better practice today. He struggled with some of the speed guys, but never was truly beat like he had been.

DenverBrit
08-11-2009, 11:52 AM
Great report. Thanks!!

Slade
08-11-2009, 11:55 AM
Wouldn't that be a trip if they went 4-3 this game and had all of us scratching our heads!

Slade
08-11-2009, 11:56 AM
Thanks for the report btw!

broncosteven
08-11-2009, 11:56 AM
Today was very hot. The early morning practices the sun is beating down on you pretty harsh. Even harder for the players who were noticeably fatigued on a few occasions trying to move through drills. ...

Is this from too much early hitting in Camp? They should be in pretty good shape by know and know what to expect in drills.

Good stuff, thanks for the Kuper update!

vancejohnson82
08-11-2009, 11:56 AM
nice....hearing about Royal just makes me more pissed off about the Marshall situation though. Nice to hear that Moreno and the line was able to hold up against some pressure coming at them. I keep saying that with the right protection, this game is goign to seem a hell of a lot easier for Orton and what hes used to

very good news about HIllis, I know a lot of people here have been bummed out as he seeemed to be marginalized but I think McDaniels knows what he has there. Not to worried about Quinn....days like that are going to happen for rookies

no-pseudo-fan
08-11-2009, 11:57 AM
Awesome Khan. I can not wait til Friday.

Northman
08-11-2009, 11:59 AM
Thanks for the report Khan. Good work as usual.

Kaylore
08-11-2009, 12:01 PM
D-line: It was hard to see these guys from my angle. I did notice that Marcus Thomas powered through the line for a tackle for a loss on one play. He drew high praises from coaches. Baker did well in drills by beating his respective offensive linemen whenever he lined up. He's the second team nose. Robert Ayers had a few great plays where he sealed off the tackle and forced the run inside. It didn't look like much, but it was a great play. On special teams he and McBath both blew off their blocks and tackled the returner. They both high fived afterward and Ayers told McBath "All day!" It's nice to see the young guys get excited about ST. Crowder took reps on the second team and was the LDE in the 4-3 package we had for the scout team. Moss was running wind sprints alone for the first part of practice. He came in later and seemed a bit confused on a play and got ear full from coach Nunnley. He looked really tired during the drills.

Linebackers: Nothing too much here. Dumervil played some first team WOLB. He had trouble getting through traffic and got beat by Scheffler on an out pattern. Andra Davis had one of his best practices. He blows a lot of plays up and it's hard for our linemen to block him. It's nice to have big, physical players inside for a change. The unit overall looks nasty and they hit hard in practice. I think the overall demeanor of the defense will be, for better or worse, much more physical this year. No more finesse crap.

Safeties: I watched the safeties very closely. Bruton looks not too bad. He just thinks too much sometimes and is a bit late. I think it will just take time for him. On special teams he was frequently the first guy there. On way plays got down fast but slowed to avoid over-pursuing the returner and he got props from the coaching staff. McBath is solid. He mostly just plays back. They rarely bring him up to help the run and he does a great job of bracketing his guy. He helped break up a really well thrown deep ball to McKinley.

CB's: Relatively quiet day with so many run plays. Goodman had a nice practice. He broke up what everyone felt was a sure TD and made some nice plays in run support. Alphonso had nice tip that he almost tipped to himself and fell incomplete. Per practice rules, he scooped it up and ran it back like a fumble.

There was a fight between Blake Schlueter and Nic Clemmens today. I liked seeing the rookie stick up for himself. I think he could be a hard guy to cut. Marshall wasn't there apparently for court and Dawkins is still out probably for a few weeks.

Questions? Comments?

Irish Stout
08-11-2009, 12:01 PM
Andre Goodman is the Shiznit!

worm
08-11-2009, 12:01 PM
Wouldn't that be a trip if they went 4-3 this game and had all of us scratching our heads!

When it is all said and done this year, I would be surprised if the Broncos were in a traditional 3-4 for more than 20% of their defensive snaps.

PRBronco
08-11-2009, 12:02 PM
So you're guaranteeing that Royal will be crazy awesome this year? You can expect a personal attack from me if he is anything less!

Slade
08-11-2009, 12:05 PM
Khan,

I guess on the radio they where quoting Weigman saying that Harris' arm injury was significant but he still came to practice today. Did Harris look ok?

Kaylore
08-11-2009, 12:05 PM
Is this from too much early hitting in Camp? They should be in pretty good shape by know and know what to expect in drills.
After a week your body gets tired and it's hard to keep focus. You start to go through the motions and the tedium begins to wear on you. It's not a physical thing, it's a mental thing. This is actually when it gets dangerous because when you're in that daze mode you can get hurt.

very good news about HIllis, I know a lot of people here have been bummed out as he seeemed to be marginalized but I think McDaniels knows what he has there. Not to worried about Quinn....days like that are going to happen for rookies
People put too much stock in the depth chart. McDaniels will use a variety of guys in a variety of ways that fit their skill set. No one in the NFL really uses the depth chart for making a game plan or determining playing time anymore, especially on offense. It's all about matchups.

And I agree on Quinn. It will take some time for all the rookies.

vancejohnson82
08-11-2009, 12:08 PM
People put too much stock in the depth chart. McDaniels will use a variety of guys in a variety of ways that fit their skill set. No one in the NFL really uses the depth chart for making a game plan or determining playing time anymore, especially on offense. It's all about matchups.

And I agree on Quinn. It will take some time for all the rookies.


Would it be fair to say that Hillis is going to be our Kevin Faulk? Or are we running different 3rd down sets and whatnot?

no-pseudo-fan
08-11-2009, 12:10 PM
Khan...

Thru the practices that you have been to, do you see any glaring weaknesses? I know that it is still early.

Kaylore
08-11-2009, 12:12 PM
Khan,

I guess on the radio they where quoting Weigman saying that Harris' arm injury was significant but he still came to practice today. Did Harris look ok?

I didn't see a problem. I mentioned him here:

Harris looked fine. It didn't appear he was hurt at all.

Would it be fair to say that Hillis is going to be our Kevin Faulk? Or are we running different 3rd down sets and whatnot?
They use him more than a third down guy. They move him around a lot. He's our primary short yardage guy and on some passing plays he's in. I wouldn't agree that he's "our Kevin Faulk" because he's not as one dimensional.

BroncoBuff
08-11-2009, 12:13 PM
Excellent report, thanks Khan.

dbfan21
08-11-2009, 12:13 PM
Nice work, Khan! Great to hear about Harris back on the field, Royal shining, Goodman stepping up and Andra Davis playing well. Kinda disappointed about Quinn, but I remember Martellius Bennett (TE) of the Cowboys struggling a lot last summer as a rookie. I caught some of his struggles while watching Hard Knocks on HBO. He ended up having a solid season considering Witten is the other TE. Maybe the TE position is a tough one to transition into.

Kaylore
08-11-2009, 12:14 PM
Khan...

Thru the practices that you have been to, do you see any glaring weaknesses? I know that it is still early.

It's too early to say. I'll repost my concerns from another thread here, though.

In order of concern: Prater, that we don't have anyone even competing with Prater, Hamilton and Wiegman getting shoved around by our defensive line, our rush defense, our "very special" teams coverage, Marshall's hip, that they're still trying to figure out what to do at OLB, ditto for DE, and Dawkins' hand.

I am not worried about our secondary, Orton or our backs.

BroncoBuff
08-11-2009, 12:15 PM
My opinion is that Hillis is everything Buckhalter is and then some.

Problem is that with Moreno here, Hillis's reps are limited enough without trying to carve out touches for Buckhalter, Jordan or Torain.

crush17
08-11-2009, 12:18 PM
Thanks for the report, great stuff! I'm officially excited :)

Can't wait for Friday!!

Kaylore
08-11-2009, 12:18 PM
Nice work, Khan! Great to hear about Harris back on the field, Royal shining, Goodman stepping up and Andra Davis playing well. Kinda disappointed about Quinn, but I remember Martellius Bennett (TE) of the Cowboys struggling a lot last summer as a rookie. I caught some of his struggles while watching Hard Knocks on HBO. He ended up having a solid season considering Witten is the other TE. Maybe the TE position is a tough one to transition into.

It is one of the hardest because you learn so much of the offense. You have to learn all the routes AND all the protections. It's brutal. You play in traffic and you play in space. I'm not the least bit concerned a rookie TE is struggling early.

outdoor_miner
08-11-2009, 12:19 PM
Nolan put a 4-3 package on the field as his base rotating DT's in. Haggan, DJ and Davis were the linebackers.

Thanks for the great report (as always)!!!

Question - what is your take on Haggan as a starting OLB? Do you see him outplaying others (Reid and Crowder)? Does he really have the necessary skillset to succeed? I'm wondering if this is more of a "test" for some of the other guys to see how they handle adversity...

BroncoDoug
08-11-2009, 12:21 PM
Sucks I didn't see you there Khan, but I'll give a little about what I saw today.

First off, it was very hot as you mentioned, no breeze or clouds didn't help the situation any better.

But to start off practice like all of McD's practices they worked on special teams, mostly onside kick return, and onside kickoff. Then went through thier normal stretching and warming up as usual.

Orton looked very good today earning the priase of McD on multiple occations. He throws such a good catch-able ball, and places it in the perfect position to allow the receiver to do something with it after the catch. On a play right in front of me he hit Scheffler on a swing route and put it right to the outside that all Sheff had to do was stick his hands out and his forward momentum wasnt disrupted at all and turned up field for a nice gain. Simms on the other hand was shaky on a few of his throws, and still hold on to the ball for too long, allowing the defense to get to him for the sack. Branstater's hair was hilarious, it looked like Terry Bradshaw, and was getting heckled by a few coaches and players.

Knowshon was very impressive to me today. This was the first practice I've seen him at so far, and he looks like a legit 1st round pick. He had a few cuts that left the defenders grabbing for air, and showed a lot of good down field vision just as he did in college. He was really impressive to me and I am excited to watch this kid for years to come.

I 100% agree with Khan, Eddie is a super stud and is going to be awesome this year. He is just so fluid in everything he does, and McD uses him in every WR drill to show all the other WR how he wants something done. Eddie earned a lot of praise from the coaches all day. McD was running some DB in the WR drills showing the wide outs what he wanted from them, its great to see him so hands on with all the positions, and the players can do nothing but benifet from it.

Ryan Clady is a beast. The End.

I didn't get to watch much of the defense seeing as how they are always on the other end of the fields, but I did see a little in the 11 on 11's. There was some prep work for San Fransisco as scout players wore jersey numbers for the SF players... The scout team had a few plays on them including a very nice catch by the Rookie TE Quinn. But the defense held stout and stopped most plays against the scout SF offense.

There was a little dust up between Nic Clemons and Schlueter, and no one seemed to eager to break it up, they were going at it pretty good. I still have never understood why you would want to punch a person with full pads and a helmet on, but to each thier own. They got to blow off a little steam it seemed on this very hot day.

Overall I liked the practice, they got after it in the team drills and were still getting very good coaching as the theme of the 2009 training camp has shown. Now I need some aloe to take care of this sunburn and a nap. Enjoy.

Northman
08-11-2009, 12:21 PM
Questions? Comments?

How do the players seem out there. Some of the early reports say they seem to buy into McD's plan so i guess im wondering do they seem genuinely excited out there or is it the usual ho-hum?

BroncoDoug
08-11-2009, 12:22 PM
Khan,

I guess on the radio they where quoting Weigman saying that Harris' arm injury was significant but he still came to practice today. Did Harris look ok?

Yeah, Harris was out there and participated in all the drills, and wasn't held back on anything.

Slade
08-11-2009, 12:23 PM
In order of concern: Prater, that we don't have anyone even competing with Prater, Hamilton and Wiegman getting shoved around by our defensive line

Seth Olsen (308 lbs.) will help out in this area next year and possibly in goal line situations this year. If they take out Weigman and move Hamilton to Center and have Olsen take his spot...we have some good size.

Problem is both Hamilton (290 lbs.) and Weigman (285 lbs.) are really good now so it is hard to bench them.

BroncoDoug
08-11-2009, 12:23 PM
How do the players seem out there. Some of the early reports say they seem to buy into McD's plan so i guess im wondering do they seem genuinely excited out there or is it the usual ho-hum?

I'll put my take on this as well. The players are buying in. Eddie Royal was on sirius afterward and they asked him that same question, and in typical Eddie fashion he gets it... He said of course they are buying in, this offense has won superbowls, so why not buy in.

Northman
08-11-2009, 12:27 PM
I'll put my take on this as well. The players are buying in. Eddie Royal was on sirius afterward and they asked him that same question, and in typical Eddie fashion he gets it... He said of course they are buying in, this offense has won superbowls, so why not buy in.

:thumbsup:

Kaylore
08-11-2009, 12:48 PM
How do the players seem out there. Some of the early reports say they seem to buy into McD's plan so i guess im wondering do they seem genuinely excited out there or is it the usual ho-hum?

They all are "buying in" to McDaniels program. Everything I've read from a player says they believe in what he's selling from an X's and O's standpoint. He's really making sure this team is prepared. The thing I love the most is how he doesn't have a practice without meetings in between so the players can be briefed and debriefed. There is a big emphasis on teaching this year or actually trying to help the players improve on a personal basis. I'm a firm believer that if you want to change something big you have to take care of the small and simple things and I'm seeing that. So far I like it. Will it translate to wins? We'll see...

s0phr0syne
08-11-2009, 12:50 PM
The party line from DB.com:

http://blog.denverbroncos.com/denverbroncos/day-12-am-blog/



The team was back on the field at Dove Valley for the first time since an afternoon practice on Sunday.

Here are some quick hits from the approximately two-hour session.

ROLL CALL: Ryan Harris was at practice this morning after leaving yesterday’s morning session at INVESCO Field at Mile High early.

Brandon Stokley, Brandon Marshall, Brian Dawkins, Champ Bailey, LaMont Jordan and Wesley Woodyard did not participate.

POSITIONING: With the depth chart released yesterday, most of the first-unit spots remained the same. However, with first-teamers Bailey, Dawkins and Stokley not practicing, a few more players got a chance to enter the rotation.

In Dawkins’ safety position, David Bruton continued to get reps, but Darcel McBath rotated in as well. At Bailey’s cornerback spot, Jack Williams and Alphonso Smith rotated duties. In Stokley’s place at receiver, a multitude of players stepped in, including Brandon Lloyd, Nate Swift, Matthew Willis and C.J. Jones.

DRILLS: Daniel Graham continued to impress in one-on-one drills involving linebackers and tight ends. With Head Coach Josh McDaniels and general manager Brian Xanders watching, Graham didn’t let anyone past him, drawing praise from tight ends coach Clancy Barone.

In the same drill and a few linebacker drills afterwards, Tim Crowder continued to get past his blockers, much to the delight of linebackers coach Don Martindale.

In another drill, three offensive linemen worked against a nose tackle and two linebackers. For example, Fields, D.J. Williams and Andra Davis lined up opposite Casey Wiegmann, Chris Kuper and Ben Hamilton. The purpose of the drill was to have the nose tackle take up two blockers so the linebackers were freed up to find the ball-carrier and make the tackle.


Smith, Kenny McKinley and Knowshon Moreno handled the kickoff return duties during practice.

PLAYMAKERS: Two players shined on coverage during kickoff return drills. First, Joshua Bell burst past his blockers for the wrap-up on Smith during the kickoff. A few plays later, Bruton showed his knack for making plays on special teams by sprinting past his blockers for the stop. “Way to get there!” coaching assistant Keith Burns shouted.

Andra Davis flashed some end-to-end speed on one play during practice. Tony Scheffler caught a quick pass out of the backfield and began sprinting to turn the corner. Davis, however, sprinted with him straight to the sideline and forced the play out of bounds.

Kyle Orton completed virtually every short pass during an 11-on-11 drill, then went long on a pass to Eddie Royal that was just out of the receiver’s reach. The two connected again a little later in practice when Royal leaped up to grab a pass in traffic.

Later in the session, the team worked on quick screen passes — a few times to Correll Buckhlater and a bubble screens to Royal. On one attempt, Royal caught the pass, followed his blockers and sprinted upfield toward the end zone. Meanwhile, Josh Barrett sprinted right alongside his fellow second-year player, catching him near the sideline even after the play was over. The effort on both ends earned pats on the helmets from teammates.

Mario Haggan, a first-unit outside linebacker after the release of yesterday’s depth chart, showed why coaches might have been impressed with him so far this offseason. He streaked into the backfield on a running play, wrapping up Peyton Hillis and causing a fumble that drew cheers from his defensive brethren.


McKinley soared up and over Rashod Moulton to grab a pass that looked like it might be over his head. But the 6-foot rookie reached up and hauled it in.

QUICK HITS: Three rookies sported some interesting hairstyles this morning, most likely styled by their veteran teammates. Tom Brandstater had hair on the sides and back of his head, but a nice bald circle was shaved on top. Blake Schlueter’s head featured some randomly placed bald spots — an apparent case of clippers gone wild. Britton Colquitt’s hairdo remained a bit of a mystery throughout practice, as he wore his helmet throughout the entire session, even on the sideline watching drills. For a brief moment, Lonie Paxton took off the rookie’s helmet and rubbed his head, but the helmet went back on immediately. He later showed his hairstyle after practice however, which you’ll be able to see in a Broncos TV piece a little later today.


A few players donned red “penny” jerseys to represent players from the team’s upcoming opponent. Jerseys such as No. 52 — Patrick Willis — No. 21 — Frank Gore — and No. 85 — Vernon Davis — popped up on the scout team.

Rulon Davis’ helmet came flying off as he ran through a drill and attacked a tackling dummy.

DAILY JUKEBOX: It’s becoming apparent that Smith is a big fan of The Gap Band. After dancing to “You Dropped a Bomb on Me” earlier in training camp, he broke out some moves for today’s Gap Band selection, “Outstanding.”

Here are the rest of the selections from today’s playlist:

T.I. (feat. Usher) - “My Life, Your Entertainment”
Elvis Presley - “Jailhouse Rock”
Chuck Berry - “Johnny B. Goode”
Young Jeezy - “Bottom of the Map” (This choice brought shouts of approval from the defense, and some dancing from Reid, Andra Davis and Ayers)

QUOTABLE:

“Um, I’ve looked better.”
-Britton Colquitt, on seeing his new haircut in the mirror.

The team will be back on the field this evening at 5:30 p.m. MDT.

More pictures from practice below.

-Gray Caldwell, DenverBroncos.com

Northman
08-11-2009, 12:52 PM
They all are "buying in" to McDaniels program. Everything I've read from a player says they believe in what he's selling from an X's and O's standpoint. He's really making sure this team is prepared. The thing I love the most is how he doesn't have a practice without meetings in between so the players can be briefed and debriefed. There is a big emphasis on teaching this year or actually trying to help the players improve on a personal basis. I'm a firm believer that if you want to change something big you have to take care of the small and simple things and I'm seeing that. So far I like it. Will it translate to wins? We'll see...

Thanks brother. This was what i was hoping to hear. Even if we struggle with wins i want to see more intensity and excitement out there so hopefully all this pays off. :thumbsup:

Beantown Bronco
08-11-2009, 01:04 PM
If I've learned one thing about training camps it's this: you're better off just breaking out the clippers and giving yourself a crew-cut before you get there.

oubronco
08-11-2009, 01:13 PM
D-line: It was hard to see these guys from my angle. I did notice that Marcus Thomas powered through the line for a tackle for a loss on one play. He drew high praises from coaches. Baker did well in drills by beating his respective offensive linemen whenever he lined up. He's the second team nose. Robert Ayers had a few great plays where he sealed off the tackle and forced the run inside. It didn't look like much, but it was a great play. On special teams he and McBath both blew off their blocks and tackled the returner. They both high fived afterward and Ayers told McBath "All day!" It's nice to see the young guys get excited about ST. Crowder took reps on the second team and was the LDE in the 4-3 package we had for the scout team. Moss was running wind sprints alone for the first part of practice. He came in later and seemed a bit confused on a play and got ear full from coach Nunnley. He looked really tired during the drills.

Linebackers: Nothing too much here. Dumervil played some first team WOLB. He had trouble getting through traffic and got beat by Scheffler on an out pattern. Andra Davis had one of his best practices. He blows a lot of plays up and it's hard for our linemen to block him. It's nice to have big, physical players inside for a change. The unit overall looks nasty and they hit hard in practice. I think the overall demeanor of the defense will be, for better or worse, much more physical this year. No more finesse crap.

Safeties: I watched the safeties very closely. Bruton looks not too bad. He just thinks too much sometimes and is a bit late. I think it will just take time for him. On special teams he was frequently the first guy there. On way plays got down fast but slowed to avoid over-pursuing the returner and he got props from the coaching staff. McBath is solid. He mostly just plays back. They rarely bring him up to help the run and he does a great job of bracketing his guy. He helped break up a really well thrown deep ball to McKinley.

CB's: Relatively quiet day with so many run plays. Goodman had a nice practice. He broke up what everyone felt was a sure TD and made some nice plays in run support. Alphonso had nice tip that he almost tipped to himself and fell incomplete. Per practice rules, he scooped it up and ran it back like a fumble.

There was a fight between Blake Schlueter and Nic Clemmens today. I liked seeing the rookie stick up for himself. I think he could be a hard guy to cut. Marshall wasn't there apparently for court and Dawkins is still out probably for a few weeks.

Questions? Comments?

I for one am glad to here we will be physical but if they are going to run a 3-4 then why mess with 4-3 and confuse the defense kinda like Bates did

PRBronco
08-11-2009, 01:16 PM
Lol, did they do any hazing last year? I've never noticed any before.

thumpc
08-11-2009, 01:24 PM
I for one am glad to here we will be physical but if they are going to run a 3-4 then why mess with 4-3 and confuse the defense kinda like Bates did

Nolan says it is easy to go from a 3-4 to 4-3 in one play, hard to go the other way.

SoDak Bronco
08-11-2009, 01:26 PM
Ross Tucker and Jim Miller on Sirius radio said the only question they have about the offense is the depth at o-line, everywhere else looks great. The Defense they are worried about the front seven, said Fields looks undersized, they thought Baker look intriguing. Not sure where the a consistent push is going to come from.

oubronco
08-11-2009, 01:27 PM
Nolan says it is easy to go from a 3-4 to 4-3 in one play, hard to go the other way.

whatever coach says I just thought if they were going to switch then switch and get it over with besides camp reports make it sound like they are better at the 3-4

Traveler
08-11-2009, 01:28 PM
Kaylore,

What's your take on the tackling by the defense thus far? While it's nice to hear they are beginning to grasp the new defense, it'll all mean nothing if they aren't stressing fundamental tackling techniques.

Are the players still going for kills shots or are they wrapping up?

As to your views on specific players, how has Jarvis Moss looked since his return? Details on Josh Barrett and Chad Jackson too.

oubronco
08-11-2009, 01:30 PM
Kaylore,

What's your take on the tackling by the defense thus far? While it's nice to hear they are beginning to grasp the new defense, it'll all mean nothing if they aren't stressing fundamental tackling techniques.Are the players still going for kills shots or are they wrapping up?

As to your views on specific players, how has Jarvis Moss looked since his return? Details on Josh Barrett and Chad Jackson too.

excellent point I was so sick of the whiff arm tackling

outdoor_miner
08-11-2009, 01:31 PM
I'm hoping my question earlier doesn't get buried:

Question - what is your take on Haggan as a starting OLB? Do you see him outplaying others (Reid and Crowder)? Does he really have the necessary skillset to succeed? I'm wondering if this is more of a "test" for some of the other guys to see how they handle adversity...

Traveler
08-11-2009, 01:34 PM
excellent point I was so sick of the whiff arm tackling

Me too! Neighbors could probably hear me screaming whenever I saw it. Drove me frickin' crazy!

theAPAOps5
08-11-2009, 01:35 PM
I'm hoping my question earlier doesn't get buried:

Its a message. Sunday Coach McD said some players were lagging to much for his liking and then Hagan makes #1 on the depth chart.

On the DP twitter McD is quoted as saying to take too much from the Depth Chart it won't look very similar by the start of the season.

Northman
08-11-2009, 01:38 PM
Me too! Neighbors could probably hear me screaming whenever I saw it. Drove me frickin' crazy!

But dont forget the Dance after they tackled the player for a 5 yard gain. Nothing beats watching Williams and company celebrating tackles for gains. lol

BroncoBuff
08-11-2009, 01:38 PM
In Stokley’s place at receiver, a multitude of players stepped in, including Brandon Lloyd, Nate Swift, Matthew Willis and C.J. Jones.

Smith, Kenny McKinley and Knowshon Moreno handled the kickoff return duties during practice.
Thanks s0ph ....

Read between the lines above ... Chad Jackson is a goner.

Traveler
08-11-2009, 01:47 PM
But dont forget the Dance after they tackled the player for a 5 yard gain. Nothing beats watching Williams and company celebrating tackles for gains. lol

Please don't remind me!Yikes!

TheReverend
08-11-2009, 01:53 PM
I still haven't gotten any goddamn drawings. :(

TheReverend
08-11-2009, 01:55 PM
Haggan played well in spot duty last year. He could very well keep his mitts on this opportunity...

Beantown Bronco
08-11-2009, 02:01 PM
I still haven't gotten any goddamn drawings. :(

Seriously. This is complete garbage. We need to get DemonEagles to do all future camp reports.

TheReverend
08-11-2009, 02:03 PM
Seriously. This is complete garbage. We need to get DemonEagles to do all future camp reports.

I'd pay for that

ColoradoBuff
08-11-2009, 02:08 PM
Thanks s0ph ....

Read between the lines above ... Chad Jackson is a goner.


Receiver: Royal is going to be crazy good this year. I know I've been in trouble for making predictions before, but he is just so polished. He had one would-be long TD that Andre Goodman broke up at the last minute. It was a beautifully placed ball and just a good play by Goodman. On another play Orton barely over threw Royal for a similar deep bomb. Off his fingertips. Very close. On some scrimmaging later in the practice, Royal did a nice job settling into a zone and getting vertical to take a bullet from Orton. He also broke a few ankles on a nice screen play. McKinley had similar play as well. He leaped over Moulton and came down in traffic for a good grab. Jackson and Gaffney had their moments as well. Jackson got a lot of work.

Am I missing something?

Los Broncos
08-11-2009, 02:12 PM
Thanks Kaylore, good work.

Northman
08-11-2009, 02:13 PM
Receiver: Royal is going to be crazy good this year. I know I've been in trouble for making predictions before, but he is just so polished. He had one would-be long TD that Andre Goodman broke up at the last minute. It was a beautifully placed ball and just a good play by Goodman. On another play Orton barely over threw Royal for a similar deep bomb. Off his fingertips. Very close. On some scrimmaging later in the practice, Royal did a nice job settling into a zone and getting vertical to take a bullet from Orton. He also broke a few ankles on a nice screen play. McKinley had similar play as well. He leaped over Moulton and came down in traffic for a good grab. Jackson and Gaffney had their moments as well. Jackson got a lot of work.

Am I missing something?


I guess Buff believes that there wont be room for Jackson with so many Receivers there. At least thats how i read it.

Beantown Bronco
08-11-2009, 02:16 PM
I guess Buff believes that there wont be room for Jackson with so many Receivers there. At least thats how i read it.

When 4 guys make the write-up for stepping in for Stokley when he was out and another 3 are listed as taking kick returns.....and none of them is named Jackson....and McDaniels essentially cut him from the Pats once already.....I can see where Buff would come to that conclusion.

Northman
08-11-2009, 02:18 PM
When 4 guys make the write-up for stepping in for Stokley when he was out and another 3 are listed as taking kick returns.....and none of them is named Jackson....and McDaniels essentially cut him from the Pats once already.....I can see where Buff would come to that conclusion.

Agreed.

BroncoMan4ever
08-11-2009, 02:20 PM
But dont forget the Dance after they tackled the player for a 5 yard gain. Nothing beats watching Williams and company celebrating tackles for gains. lol

jesus christ man, don't remind me of that stupid ****. celebrating like they won a super bowl. "Wow, I tackled this guy after he ran for a 1st down, let me dance a jig and act like a douche for my mediocre accomplisment"

TheReverend
08-11-2009, 02:22 PM
jesus christ man, don't remind me of that stupid ****. celebrating like they won a super bowl. "Wow, I tackled this guy after he ran for a 1st down, let me dance a jig and act like a douche for my mediocre accomplisment"

I'll believe those days are over when I see it...

Beantown Bronco
08-11-2009, 02:25 PM
jesus christ man, don't remind me of that stupid ****. celebrating like they won a super bowl. "Wow, I tackled this guy after he ran for a 1st down, let me dance a jig and act like a douche for my mediocre accomplisment"

This reminds me of one of the funniest posts I ever read on the Mane. Somebody was referencing a play in one of the games last year where a potential INT went through Winborn's hands, and tried to predict what he would've done had he held onto the ball and actually returned it for a TD. Someone chimed in and said that he would've draped himself in the American flag and done a full lap of the stadium. That post still makes me laugh every time I think of it.

Fess up. Who was it, so I can rep you again? Never was I so close to creating like 10 fake accounts that day just so I could rep it more than once.

Northman
08-11-2009, 02:26 PM
jesus christ man, don't remind me of that stupid ****. celebrating like they won a super bowl. "Wow, I tackled this guy after he ran for a 1st down, let me dance a jig and act like a douche for my mediocre accomplisment"

:rofl:

My bad, my bad.

Rohirrim
08-11-2009, 02:29 PM
Knowshon sounds like what he was advertised to be: The full package. Can't wait for the real action when he gets some "real game" adrenelin going.

Taco John
08-11-2009, 02:31 PM
Good to hear about Harris. It's exciting to read about them running scout drills and stuff that they expect to see from the Niners. It's going to be good to have football back.

Beantown Bronco
08-11-2009, 02:31 PM
Found it. It was Meck.

Had he made that pick yesterday he probably would have draped himself with an American flag and made a lap of the stadium.

Eh whatever though at least he's not beating on women and getting DUIs

From one of last season's classic threads:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=73697&highlight=draped

Los Broncos
08-11-2009, 02:55 PM
Knowshon sounds like what he was advertised to be: The full package. Can't wait for the real action when he gets some "real game" adrenelin going.

He is a load of bricks that's for sure.

lex
08-11-2009, 03:07 PM
Knowshon sounds like what he was advertised to be: The full package minus long speed. Can't wait for the real action when he gets some "real game" adrenelin going.

fixed

Old Dude
08-11-2009, 03:13 PM
I take two snippets of hope out of all of this.

1. Sounds like Campbell is having a great camp, and not just because Orton sucks.

2. If our interior O-Line is having problems, they must be having problems against someone on the other side, so maybe it's not a hopeless situation on the D-Line.

Kaylore
08-11-2009, 03:22 PM
Kaylore,

What's your take on the tackling by the defense thus far? While it's nice to hear they are beginning to grasp the new defense, it'll all mean nothing if they aren't stressing fundamental tackling techniques.

Are the players still going for kills shots or are they wrapping up?

As to your views on specific players, how has Jarvis Moss looked since his return? Details on Josh Barrett and Chad Jackson too.

They spend a lot of time working on tackling drills. I don't know if you've listened to the McDaniels press conferences on video, but he talks about that being a point of emphasis this season. One of my favorite drills is they have the running backs and tight ends run at the linebackers one on one and try and tackle them/break the tackle to score. It's a great exercise that works on tackling. There is some video of Knowshon spinning out of a DJ Williams tackle. Crowder was ripping him today complaining that his legs were fresh so he looks better. It was funny.

Moss was in the dog house today. That should tell you something. Barrett has been ok but not amazing. I never see him make a big play but I don't see him whiff on one either. Jackson got a lot of work on the scout team today.

Kaylore
08-11-2009, 03:29 PM
I still haven't gotten any goddamn drawings. :(

Here!

SureShot
08-11-2009, 03:41 PM
Here!

Looks good except for lack of Airwolf.

Houshyamama
08-11-2009, 03:41 PM
Here!
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=24629&stc=1&d=1250026151

Don't quit your day job! Ha!

TheReverend
08-11-2009, 03:41 PM
I take two snippets of hope out of all of this.

1. Sounds like Campbell is having a great camp, and not just because Orton sucks.

2. If our interior O-Line is having problems, they must be having problems against someone on the other side, so maybe it's not a hopeless situation on the D-Line.

I think you mean Goodman?

hambone13
08-11-2009, 03:42 PM
I didn't see a problem. I mentioned him here:




They use him more than a third down guy. They move him around a lot. He's our primary short yardage guy and on some passing plays he's in. I wouldn't agree that he's "our Kevin Faulk" because he's not as one dimensional.

I don't know how anyone would ever compare Kevin Faulk and Hillis, other than they both run the ball. Faulk is more of a scat back w/ unusual power for th role in my assessment and Hillis is just a freak of nature. Just tell him what to do...he'll make it happen....

supermanhr9
08-11-2009, 03:46 PM
HAHAHA what is that picture supposed to represent? Geln Dorsey so fat he's began to float?

crush17
08-11-2009, 03:49 PM
ZOMG the neck beard is http://forums.unnet.net/images/smilies/awesome.gif

gunns
08-11-2009, 03:54 PM
So you're guaranteeing that Royal will be crazy awesome this year? You can expect a personal attack from me if he is anything less!

IMO he was last year, especially for a rookie.

Northman
08-11-2009, 03:55 PM
Here!

Awesome! hahahahaa

Im laughing so hard im going to have a heart attack. lol

TonyR
08-11-2009, 04:08 PM
I think you mean Goodman?

I was wondering myself. I thought he meant QB Jason Campbell in D.C. who McD reportedly passed on for Orton...

TonyR
08-11-2009, 04:23 PM
fixed

Why must you be such a pathetic troll?

Old Dude
08-11-2009, 04:24 PM
I think you mean Goodman?

Yup, sorry. Goodman.

Give me a break. I'm getting senile.

underrated29
08-11-2009, 04:28 PM
Thanks s0ph ....

Read between the lines above ... Chad Jackson is a goner.



I am not so sure buff. I think we keep Chad.

FireFly
08-11-2009, 04:29 PM
here!

rofl!

TheReverend
08-11-2009, 04:38 PM
Here!

The neckbeard made me soil myself.










Twice

lex
08-11-2009, 04:56 PM
Why must you be such a pathetic troll?

Its the truth. Why must you be such an ardent mouthbreathing leghumper?

Rock Chalk
08-11-2009, 04:56 PM
The randomness of Glen Dorsey in there, coupled with the neckbeard and the farts coming out of Eddie Royal make that picture an instant ESPN Classic.

worm
08-11-2009, 05:07 PM
Actually that pic clarifies a number of things.

1) Orton looks like he lacks arm strength to get the ball to Royal
2) Eddie clearly is on board with what McD is doing judging from that big smile
3) Dorsey really IS fat.

Greybeard
08-11-2009, 05:14 PM
Yup, sorry. Goodman.

Give me a break. I'm getting senile.

No need for that to happen. I'm getting up there in years, too, so listen to me.

What you need to do is . . .















. . . where was I? hmmm...



-----

dbfan4life
08-11-2009, 05:16 PM
Here!

Demon Eagle would be proud!

Rohirrim
08-11-2009, 05:46 PM
fixed

Who dropped a nickel in your dumbass?

Rohirrim
08-11-2009, 05:49 PM
Here!
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=24629&stc=1&d=1250026151


Hilarious!

I want a full camp report like this. Especially the neckbeard. I want to see what McD looks like. Ha!

IHaveALight
08-11-2009, 06:57 PM
Kahn I didn't see you say too much about Knowshon, other then he was what you expected.
I'm pretty sure this was your first look at him, so not a lot to judge off of I'm sure, but you think he'll be the opening day starter? Or at least starting at some point this year?

mhgaffney
08-11-2009, 07:02 PM
Think of all the weapons -- in this offense:

Royal, Marshall, Moreno, Stokely, Sheffler, Hillis, even Graham...

Wow.

Kaylore
08-11-2009, 07:03 PM
Kahn I didn't see you say too much about Knowshon, other then he was what you expected.
I'm pretty sure this was your first look at him, so not a lot to judge off of I'm sure, but you think he'll be the opening day starter? Or at least starting at some point this year?

I think we go RBBC early in the year. Knowshon is still a rookie and missed a lot of practices. He'll need to get up to speed. However they didn't take him 12 overall to ride the pine. He was (according to them) their number one offensive player and they will try to use him early and often.

broncosteven
08-11-2009, 07:07 PM
Here!

You left out Jarmarcus Russell.

Cmac821
08-11-2009, 07:10 PM
That was a great report and a even better picture

BlueCrusher
08-11-2009, 08:23 PM
fixed

And so was TD...so?

Greybeard
08-11-2009, 08:27 PM
fixed

This is typical of the scouting reports I've seen on Moreno:

Summary: I’ve made no secret that Moreno is one of my favorite players in this draft, or frankly any draft, and there is a good reason. Too often we make a big deal about size/speed, especially at the HB position, but there are tons of HOF/Pro-bowl backs who don’t have exceptional size/speed combinations but make up for it in other ways. IMO, Moreno is one of those backs. He has the best balance I’ve seen, the best pass blocking I’ve seen, and the greatest intensity I’ve seen in the few years I’ve been scouting. He’s a good all-around back capable of running any play, and as a receiver he is excellent at generating 1st downs. Two players I am reminded of are Shaun Alexander (due to vision and inside running, but Moreno is a killer blocker and receiver where Alexander was poor at both) and Clinton Portis (the 2005+ version who is a great blocker and inside runner, not the 200lber from college), and I feel Moreno could be better than either because he truly is the best thing about each of those two backs. While I don’t recommend drafting a RB #4 overall due to money and the overall fungible nature of the RB position, Moreno had huge success behind a pretty bad Georgia OL and if given a decent OL I see pro-bowls and possibly Canton in Moreno’s future.

http://collegescout.wordpress.com/2009/04/15/knowshon-moreno-rb-georgia/

-----

Kaylore
08-11-2009, 09:07 PM
This is typical of the scouting reports I've seen on Moreno:



http://collegescout.wordpress.com/2009/04/15/knowshon-moreno-rb-georgia/

-----

Lex hates anyone that isn't his favorite running back. Last year it was Rashard Mendenhall. He proceeded to tell us that our first day (Royal and Clady) was a horrible draft and we blew the whole thing on that day alone because we didn't take him. He insisted it wasn't that we didn't take "his" back, but that we took no back at all. Well this year we took a back, but it wasn't "his" favorite so he's throwing another tantrum proving he's full of crap. Given how Clady and Royal panned out, I'm sure Moreno will have a great year and Lex will look like the complete moron on pro-scouting that he is again.

underrated29
08-11-2009, 09:17 PM
Dont forget about cory boyd.

We had a 30 page summary on why boyd was the better pick than torian. I actually liked boyd, was disappointed he never got to run for us.

I will say though i wanted us desperately to draft stewie last year instead of clady. But thats Ok. Clady is a pimp even though i thought he was not. But knowshon was my top pick this year and we got him and i creamed myself.

Greybeard
08-11-2009, 09:36 PM
Lex hates anyone that isn't his favorite running back. Last year it was Rashard Mendenhall. He proceeded to tell us that our first day (Royal and Clady) was a horrible draft and we blew the whole thing on that day alone because we didn't take him. He insisted it wasn't that we didn't take "his" back, but that we took no back at all. Well this year we took a back, but it wasn't "his" favorite so he's throwing another tantrum proving he's full of crap. Given how Clady and Royal panned out, I'm sure Moreno will have a great year and Lex will look like the complete moron on pro-scouting that he is again.

Probably doesn't bother Lex, as long as he's involved in his favorite activity: flaming. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thcoffee.gif

-----

lex
08-11-2009, 11:55 PM
Lex hates anyone that isn't his favorite running back. Last year it was Rashard Mendenhall. He proceeded to tell us that our first day (Royal and Clady) was a horrible draft and we blew the whole thing on that day alone because we didn't take him. He insisted it wasn't that we didn't take "his" back, but that we took no back at all. Well this year we took a back, but it wasn't "his" favorite so he's throwing another tantrum proving he's full of crap. Given how Clady and Royal panned out, I'm sure Moreno will have a great year and Lex will look like the complete moron on pro-scouting that he is again.

This is simply not how it happened. Guess again.

Mr.Meanie
08-12-2009, 12:02 AM
Revisionist message board history is my favorite part of the draft Ha!

lex
08-12-2009, 12:03 AM
This is typical of the scouting reports I've seen on Moreno:



http://collegescout.wordpress.com/2009/04/15/knowshon-moreno-rb-georgia/

-----


Someone said "the whole package"...or something like that. If that were true, he'd have long speed. I dont see why people have problem with the truth. At no point did I say he is bad.

Some of you should see yourselves and the way you turn any comment that is point of fact, into a slight. People say, "Orton doesnt have a strong arm" and you have the militant Joshheads rushing to counter something that is evident to all or many.

Ive already said elsewhere that a lot of long runs are as much about not slowing down as much as they are about top end speed. So put the tissues away.

lex
08-12-2009, 12:54 AM
Revisionist message board history is my favorite part of the draft Ha!

Not at all.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1962508&postcount=98

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1963275&postcount=130

And before you go saying Im anti-Royal, know that I picked Royal in our mock draft last year.

55CrushEm
08-12-2009, 05:58 AM
This is simply not how it happened. Guess again.

No, it is. Kahn has it spot on.

Drek
08-12-2009, 06:20 AM
Someone said "the whole package"...or something like that. If that were true, he'd have long speed. I dont see why people have problem with the truth. At no point did I say he is bad.

Some of you should see yourselves and the way you turn any comment that is point of fact, into a slight. People say, "Orton doesnt have a strong arm" and you have the militant Joshheads rushing to counter something that is evident to all or many.

Ive already said elsewhere that a lot of long runs are as much about not slowing down as much as they are about top end speed. So put the tissues away.
Evident to so many incredibly wrong people apparently.

Orton has a strong arm. Stronger than many of his peers. He doesn't have exceptional arm strength. There is a big difference. Drew Brees does not have exceptional arm strength, but he's got a strong enough arm to make pretty much any throw you need to on the football field. Tom Brady does not have exceptional arm strength, but again strong enough to make all the throws. Orton is in a similar arm strength category as those two.

Peyton Manning doesn't have truly elite arm strength either, yet no one ever questions his ability to go deep. Meanwhile his classmate coming out of college Ryan Leaf had all world arm strength and his cup of coffee in the league was most memorable for him being a total ass, not throwing bullets.

The notion that every QB is either possessed of an exceptional cannon or lacks arm strength, nothing in between, is the real problem with the perception of Orton. From day one in this league he's demonstrated enough arm strength to make all the throws. He's also displayed a high football IQ and the ability to quickly process his reads and make smart calls. Where he struggles is a lack of consistent accuracy. His throwing ability as of last year was very comparable to Jake Plummer. Less mobility, better at reading a defense, but the same slightly above average arm that could throw very precise passes, with bouts of inaccuracy.

Can McDaniels take his mechanics and as a result his entire game to the next step, that is the most important question we have this off-season.

Greybeard
08-12-2009, 08:53 AM
Evident to so many incredibly wrong people apparently.

Orton has a strong arm. Stronger than many of his peers. He doesn't have exceptional arm strength. There is a big difference. Drew Brees does not have exceptional arm strength, but he's got a strong enough arm to make pretty much any throw you need to on the football field. Tom Brady does not have exceptional arm strength, but again strong enough to make all the throws. Orton is in a similar arm strength category as those two.

Peyton Manning doesn't have truly elite arm strength either, yet no one ever questions his ability to go deep. Meanwhile his classmate coming out of college Ryan Leaf had all world arm strength and his cup of coffee in the league was most memorable for him being a total ass, not throwing bullets.

The notion that every QB is either possessed of an exceptional cannon or lacks arm strength, nothing in between, is the real problem with the perception of Orton. From day one in this league he's demonstrated enough arm strength to make all the throws. He's also displayed a high football IQ and the ability to quickly process his reads and make smart calls. Where he struggles is a lack of consistent accuracy. His throwing ability as of last year was very comparable to Jake Plummer. Less mobility, better at reading a defense, but the same slightly above average arm that could throw very precise passes, with bouts of inaccuracy.

Can McDaniels take his mechanics and as a result his entire game to the next step, that is the most important question we have this off-season.

I like the way you explained this. One thing, however, McDaniels said he likes
about Orton is his accuracy. I assume McDaniels means Orton's short and
medium passing.

It seems they are working hard at the deep pass since I have seen a lot of
comments about it in the various reports from camp. Apparently, Orton has
had some good days and less than stellar days with that, which is to be
expected since that was previously the weaker part of his game. But from the
description of yesterday's practice he might be improving there.

Despite the uninformed opinions of a few on this and other boards, I expect to
see an improved Orton this year. He is going into essentially his third year on
the field with far better talent all around him, far better coaching, and a
scheme more suited to his talents. Despite the derogatory remarks about him,
Orton did well last year. If he can improve on that, then I see an exciting year
for all of us who are truly rooting for the Broncos . . .

-----

DenverBrit
08-12-2009, 09:31 AM
And before you go saying Im anti-Royal, know that I picked Royal in our mock draft last year.

LOL

Your mock draft??

Mock applause everyone, Lex approves!!

lex
08-12-2009, 11:01 AM
No, it is. Kahn has it spot on.

Ive already provided proof to the contrary. Nice try.

lex
08-12-2009, 11:07 AM
I like the way you explained this. One thing, however, McDaniels said he likes
about Orton is his accuracy. I assume McDaniels means Orton's short and
medium passing.

It seems they are working hard at the deep pass since I have seen a lot of
comments about it in the various reports from camp. Apparently, Orton has
had some good days and less than stellar days with that, which is to be
expected since that was previously the weaker part of his game. But from the
description of yesterday's practice he might be improving there.

Despite the uninformed opinions of a few on this and other boards, I expect to
see an improved Orton this year. He is going into essentially his third year on
the field with far better talent all around him, far better coaching, and a
scheme more suited to his talents. Despite the derogatory remarks about him,
Orton did well last year. If he can improve on that, then I see an exciting year
for all of us who are truly rooting for the Broncos . . .

-----

Whose the one who is uninformed? I believe I just mentioned that in the broadcast of a week 15 game, they were pointing out Kyles shortcomings on deep passes. Again, this was 15 weeks into the season. Again, ive arleady said its possible that both Cutler and Orton may improve. But if something like the deep ball is a problem after 15 weeks, you have to wonder. Again, the arm strength is a legitimate concern. Theres no reason to candy coat it out of blind optimism.

If anything, Im more positive about Orton than many here and Chicago are. But youre right, how is it possible that people in Chicago could possibly be informed about Orton?

tsiguy96
08-12-2009, 11:13 AM
Whose the one who is uninformed? I believe I just mentioned that in the broadcast of a week 15 game, they were pointing out Kyles shortcomings on deep passes. Again, this was 15 weeks into the season. Again, ive arleady said its possible that both Cutler and Orton may improve. But if something like the deep ball is a problem after 15 weeks, you have to wonder. Again, the arm strength is a legitimate concern. Theres no reason to candy coat it out of blind optimism.

If anything, Im more positive about Orton than many here and Chicago are. But youre right, how is it possible that people in Chicago could possibly be informed about Orton?

i live right near chicago you idiot, every single bears fan you will ever talk to in this state will tell you orton is not near as bad as people on the media make him out to be. the nfl network guys laugh when they say "kyle orton" yet every bears fan, whether they want to admit it or not, will tell you orton has a lot of upside, basically zero protection or offensive help in chicago besides forte and olson, and that when given the chance and was injury free played great. with mcdaniels help, look for orton to have a breakout year.

Kaylore
08-12-2009, 11:22 AM
Lex using arm strength to equate to long throws? They have nothing to do with each other. The best long ball passers don't have a great arms. A deep pass is about timing and rhythm. Lex shows once again what an ignorant piece of trash he is.:~ohyah!:

lex
08-12-2009, 11:22 AM
i live right near chicago you idiot, every single bears fan you will ever talk to in this state will tell you orton is not near as bad as people on the media make him out to be. the nfl network guys laugh when they say "kyle orton" yet every bears fan, whether they want to admit it or not, will tell you orton has a lot of upside, basically zero protection or offensive help in chicago besides forte and olson, and that when given the chance and was injury free played great. with mcdaniels help, look for orton to have a breakout year.

Thats not true. Like I said, Ive been more positive on him than the sentiment I hear from the Bears fans. I have no reason to lie about that. Im not tailoring anything around my own perception of him. Ive not been totally negative on him at all. But the people who are dismissing his shortcomings dont realize that they are based on his body of work in Chicago. People arent making stuff up. Also, people seem to think because he's not Cutler, he wont make any boneheaded throws. This is also not true. He has made his share of boneheaded throws and thats even when a lot of his passes have a lesser degree of difficulty.

But like I said, Orton was only THE starter for 2 years -- like Jay-- so he may improve. How and to what degree, is not known. You cant dismiss him as garbage but he is not. But at the same time he does have limitations and arm strength is one of them. But maybe he will become better at putting a ball in a spot where the WR can catch it in stride and take it the distance. Maybe they will do an adequate job of calling plays to set up a long pass where they can spring a guy wide open.

But so far in camp there have been a lot of deep passes that have been broken up by the CBs.

lex
08-12-2009, 11:23 AM
Lex using arm strength to equate to long throws? They have nothing to do with each other. The best long ball passers don't have a great arms. A deep pass is about timing and rhythm. Lex shows once again what an ignorant piece of trash he is.:~ohyah!:

Wrong.

tsiguy96
08-12-2009, 11:25 AM
Thats not true. Like I said, Ive been more positive on him than the sentiment I hear from the Bears fans. I have no reason to lie about that. Im not tailoring anything around my own perception of him. Ive not been totally negative on him at all. But the people who are dismissing his shortcomings dont realize that they are based on his body of work in Chicago. People arent making stuff up. Also, people seem to think because he's not Cutler, he wont make any boneheaded throws. This is also not true. He has made his share of boneheaded throws and thats even when a lot of his passes have a lesser degree of difficulty.

But like I said, Orton was only THE starter for 2 years -- like Jay-- so he may improve. How and to what degree, is not known. You cant dismiss him as garbage but he is not. But at the same time he does have limitations and arm strength is one of them. But maybe he will become better at putting a ball in a spot where the WR can catch it in stride and take it the distance. Maybe they will do an adequate job of calling plays to set up a long pass where they can spring a guy wide open.

But so far in camp there have been a lot of deep passes that have been broken up by the CBs.

you prove to everyone on this message board daily that you dont know what youre talking about. have you EVER had someone agree with you here? now think about it, everyone on the message board is basically saying something different (not always teh same thing, but different) but you always come out of left field with some dumb **** that no one has ever agreed with you on, yet you think you are right?

DBroncos4life
08-12-2009, 11:25 AM
i live right near chicago you idiot, every single bears fan you will ever talk to in this state will tell you orton is not near as bad as people on the media make him out to be. the nfl network guys laugh when they say "kyle orton" yet every bears fan, whether they want to admit it or not, will tell you orton has a lot of upside, basically zero protection or offensive help in chicago besides forte and olson, and that when given the chance and was injury free played great. with mcdaniels help, look for orton to have a breakout year.

I think you could replace Orton with Campbell, Harrington, Griese, or any other QB in the NFL for that matter and you still would defend McD. You may need to rethink your decision to become a full time fan if you think people are just going to agree with every move the team makes year in and year out.

lex
08-12-2009, 11:28 AM
you prove to everyone on this message board daily that you dont know what youre talking about. have you EVER had someone agree with you here? now think about it, everyone on the message board is basically saying something different (not always teh same thing, but different) but you always come out of left field with some dumb **** that no one has ever agreed with you on, yet you think you are right?

I havent really hammered on Orton up until the past couple of days and thats only because of guys like you who are willing to stick your head in the sand. Furthermore, Ive acknowledged good as well as bad with Orton. Your displeasure with my post says more about your blind acceptance and totally lack of honesty. Im simply not going to lie to myself.

tsiguy96
08-12-2009, 11:32 AM
I think you could replace Orton with Campbell, Harrington, Griese, or any other QB in the NFL for that matter and you still would defend McD. You may need to rethink your decision to become a full time fan if you think people are just going to agree with every move the team makes year in and year out.

what teh hell are you talking about? how am i defending mcd? because cutler whined his way out of town so bowlen sent him to chicago to play with their stud offense? or because orton literally is not as bad as morons like you believe he is, just because he cant throw it 70 yards doesnt mean ****, look what that got us last year, a qb who relies far too much on his arm strength then making good decisions. mcd took a career backup and turned him into an NFL starter, what do you think hes gonna do with a player who has already started in the nfl and been good at it too?

boppool
08-12-2009, 11:32 AM
Hillis had a few good plays. They used him on a double screen once and he made some nice moves after the catch. They move him around quite a bit and let him run, catch and block. I think despite depth chart that Hillis will be heavily utilized in this offense.

:yayaya: That's great to hear the regime will utilize Hillis in many ways! :yayaya:

DBroncos4life
08-12-2009, 11:40 AM
what teh hell are you talking about? how am i defending mcd? because cutler whined his way out of town so bowlen sent him to chicago to play with their stud offense? or because orton literally is not as bad as morons like you believe he is, just because he cant throw it 70 yards doesnt mean ****, look what that got us last year, a qb who relies far too much on his arm strength then making good decisions. mcd took a career backup and turned him into an NFL starter, what do you think hes gonna do with a player who has already started in the nfl and been good at it too?
One **** bag I never said Orton was all that bad, nor have ever made a claim about his arm strength. Just because I question the FO doesn't mean I go around bashing every player they bring in. I did however look into Orton's stats in the shotgun and in multi WR sets and it was something that I found to be alarming but nothing more then that.

If you knew anything I have nothing but respect for Kyle Orton. He wanted to play for NU but the coaching staff didn't offer him a scolly. Also he wears number 18 (till he got here) out of respect for Brook Berringer a former NU QB that died in a plane crash. It says alot about the type of person Kyle Orton is to honor a guy that he didn't even really know like that.

All I said is that you openly defend McD for everything he does and every move he makes so it wouldn't matter if we had Hittler as our starting QB because you would swallow every golden load that McD shot into your mouth.

kamakazi_kal
08-12-2009, 12:24 PM
"swollow every golden load" ... ouch.

I'm glad to see Hillis and Moreno doing well. Hopefully with some luck and only minor injury our OL and RB's can really carry this team and help the Defense.

tsiguy96
08-12-2009, 12:32 PM
One **** bag I never said Orton was all that bad, nor have ever made a claim about his arm strength. Just because I question the FO doesn't mean I go around bashing every player they bring in. I did however look into Orton's stats in the shotgun and in multi WR sets and it was something that I found to be alarming but nothing more then that.

If you knew anything I have nothing but respect for Kyle Orton. He wanted to play for NU but the coaching staff didn't offer him a scolly. Also he wears number 18 (till he got here) out of respect for Brook Berringer a former NU QB that died in a plane crash. It says alot about the type of person Kyle Orton is to honor a guy that he didn't even really know like that.

All I said is that you openly defend McD for everything he does and every move he makes so it wouldn't matter if we had Hittler as our starting QB because you would swallow every golden load that McD shot into your mouth.

or maybe i just dont cry like a ****ing schoolgirl until i haev actually seen waht is happening with the team on the field like you and youre groupies. you dont even know what to bitch about yet but you just bitch for no reason at all.

Tombstone RJ
08-12-2009, 12:33 PM
Hillis and Moreno are a great 1-2 punch in the Broncos backfield. I esp. like that McD is going to be using a 2 back set which will keep Hillis involved in the offense.

Drek
08-12-2009, 12:44 PM
I think you could replace Orton with Campbell, Harrington, Griese, or any other QB in the NFL for that matter and you still would defend McD. You may need to rethink your decision to become a full time fan if you think people are just going to agree with every move the team makes year in and year out.

I'd have to disagree with this. McDaniels (who despite what any of us might think of him obviously knows more about the QB job in the NFL than anyone who posts here) by pretty much all accounts chose a lesser 1st (18th instead of 13th) for Orton instead of Campbell. So he obviously thinks Orton has something Campbell doesn't.

I could see it. I live in Illinois so I've seen my fair share of Bears games. Orton has a pair of stones like few other QBs in the league. He isn't a fit for every system and he's had bouts of imprecision (I misused accuracy v. precision in my previous post FYI) but his good games with mediocre (and thats being nice) offensive units in Chicago where very good games. You put him in the right system (McDaniels) with the right talent and you could very possibly see the birth of the next Kurt Warner.

DBroncos4life
08-12-2009, 12:56 PM
or maybe i just dont cry like a ****ing schoolgirl until i haev actually seen waht is happening with the team on the field like you and youre groupies. you dont even know what to b**** about yet but you just b**** for no reason at all.

For someone that is waiting to see what happens you sure are forcing your views down everyone that doesn't agree with your views. I bitch because its my right to have an opinion even if you don't agree with it. How ****ing awesome would a message board be if everyone agrees on everything?

Popps...the team sure does look good.
Lex...it sure does
TJ....thats a great point
SoCal...man it does
Tsiguy96...I love McDs golden loads and the team looks good
DB...man what a perfect team

Sorry the world isn't all sunshine and rainbows but people have free will and can form a opinion.

DBroncos4life
08-12-2009, 01:00 PM
I'd have to disagree with this. McDaniels (who despite what any of us might think of him obviously knows more about the QB job in the NFL than anyone who posts here) by pretty much all accounts chose a lesser 1st (18th instead of 13th) for Orton instead of Campbell. So he obviously thinks Orton has something Campbell doesn't.

I could see it. I live in Illinois so I've seen my fair share of Bears games. Orton has a pair of stones like few other QBs in the league. He isn't a fit for every system and he's had bouts of imprecision (I misused accuracy v. precision in my previous post FYI) but his good games with mediocre (and thats being nice) offensive units in Chicago where very good games. You put him in the right system (McDaniels) with the right talent and you could very possibly see the birth of the next Kurt Warner.

I for one don't believe that rumor to be true but even if it is Campbell isn't better then Orton and isn't worth the 5 draft spots in this years draft to make up the difference.

I was just stating that some people would defend McD regardless of who was playing QB just for the sake of not risking looking like they don't agree with everything the team does.

Drek
08-12-2009, 01:09 PM
I for one don't believe that rumor to be true but even if it is Campbell isn't better then Orton and isn't worth the 5 draft spots in this years draft to make up the difference.

I was just stating that some people would defend McD regardless of who was playing QB just for the sake of not risking looking like they don't agree with everything the team does.

Well thats great, you think some people never take the orange glasses off. I'd agree, some here don't.

But McDaniels wanting Orton wasn't because McDaniels wanted a QB to fill the void left by trading Cutler. He wanted Orton in particular. We know this because multiple sources confirmed that McDaniels turned down basically the exact same deal we got from Chicago, though with a better 1st rounder in '09, to get Orton instead of Campbell. This was further substantiated by other reports of Washington trying to trade Campbell to sweeten the draft day pot in their push for Cutler. Washington's FO has admitted it, Campbell himself has commented on it. Its not really a rumor at this point. Its a fact that multiple sources, including named players involved in the deal, have corroborated.

You think Orton is an interchangeable part. He might be. But McDaniels doesn't think so. He wanted Orton in particular when given a pretty decent pool of QBs to chose from (including Campbell, Derek Anderson, Brady Quinn, and the ability to trade up after Stafford, Campbell, or drafting Freeman).

The only QB we know of made available this off-season that he might have preferred was Matt Cassel, and we can't even definitively say that because they weren't available at the same time.

What I also find particularly telling about the McDaniels/Orton relationship is a comment made recently by McDaniels about tweaking Orton's mechanics to get a faster release with more pop out of his hand. He said he made the adjustment quite a while ago. That means in his initial evaluation of Orton McDaniels not only saw a lot in Orton he liked, he saw some things he didn't. He wasn't thinking "well I'll settle for this guy". He was thinking "this is a guy I can build into a good QB".

Maybe he's wrong, maybe it all blows up in his face and Orton is a journeyman backup for a few years before washing out of the league. But McDaniels at least believes Orton has something special, and he [McDaniels] believes in his ability to harness it.

lex
08-12-2009, 01:28 PM
Well thats great, you think some people never take the orange glasses off. I'd agree, some here don't.

But McDaniels wanting Orton wasn't because McDaniels wanted a QB to fill the void left by trading Cutler. He wanted Orton in particular. We know this because multiple sources confirmed that McDaniels turned down basically the exact same deal we got from Chicago, though with a better 1st rounder in '09, to get Orton instead of Campbell. This was further substantiated by other reports of Washington trying to trade Campbell to sweeten the draft day pot in their push for Cutler. Washington's FO has admitted it, Campbell himself has commented on it. Its not really a rumor at this point. Its a fact that multiple sources, including named players involved in the deal, have corroborated.

You think Orton is an interchangeable part. He might be. But McDaniels doesn't think so. He wanted Orton in particular when given a pretty decent pool of QBs to chose from (including Campbell, Derek Anderson, Brady Quinn, and the ability to trade up after Stafford, Campbell, or drafting Freeman).

The only QB we know of made available this off-season that he might have preferred was Matt Cassel, and we can't even definitively say that because they weren't available at the same time.

What I also find particularly telling about the McDaniels/Orton relationship is a comment made recently by McDaniels about tweaking Orton's mechanics to get a faster release with more pop out of his hand. He said he made the adjustment quite a while ago. That means in his initial evaluation of Orton McDaniels not only saw a lot in Orton he liked, he saw some things he didn't. He wasn't thinking "well I'll settle for this guy". He was thinking "this is a guy I can build into a good QB".

Maybe he's wrong, maybe it all blows up in his face and Orton is a journeyman backup for a few years before washing out of the league. But McDaniels at least believes Orton has something special, and he [McDaniels] believes in his ability to harness it.

I remember this too, but when I watch clips of practice, Im still seeing a WR get a couple of steps on Champ or Smith and them easily close and deflect the ball away because its not hitting the WR in stride. Its great that something was fixed but the underthrows ware still happening.

Drek
08-12-2009, 02:41 PM
I remember this too, but when I watch clips of practice, Im still seeing a WR get a couple of steps on Champ or Smith and them easily close and deflect the ball away because its not hitting the WR in stride. Its great that something was fixed but the underthrows ware still happening.

His deep ball still isn't a thing of beauty, I agree. Though it is camp so the routes are designed to find his limits and stress them, and he's still getting on the same page with his WRs.

His arm is never going to be Cutler's. That just isn't going to happen. His deep balls (25+ yards) will always be his biggest weakness. But that doesn't preclude him from developing into a standout player. Kurt Warner doesn't throw the best deep ball in the world. Neither does Tom Brady. The fact that they CAN hit the deep ball though, and have some elite WRs who can get open to catch it, keeps teams honest.

Defensed don't defend the deep pass because they expect you to have a guy running a deep route every single down, but because they don't want it to go for six the one time they sleep on it. The ability to hit it when they do is what Orton needs to demonstrate.

It is obviously the biggest question about him. He seems to read defenses well pre-snap, he goes through his progressions quickly and intelligently. He throws a catchable ball in short to medium range, and he has shown the ability to lead the offense. The big question is can he make the opposition respect the deep ball enough to take the extra man out of the box and play us honest. That is the big unanswered question with Orton. But some pretty mediocre arms have been able to do it before, so I'm not ruling Orton out until I see him fail.

DenverBrit
08-12-2009, 02:44 PM
His deep ball still isn't a thing of beauty, I agree. Though it is camp so the routes are designed to find his limits and stress them, and he's still getting on the same page with his WRs.

His arm is never going to be Cutler's. That just isn't going to happen. His deep balls (25+ yards) will always be his biggest weakness. But that doesn't preclude him from developing into a standout player. Kurt Warner doesn't throw the best deep ball in the world. Neither does Tom Brady. The fact that they CAN hit the deep ball though, and have some elite WRs who can get open to catch it, keeps teams honest.

Defensed don't defend the deep pass because they expect you to have a guy running a deep route every single down, but because they don't want it to go for six the one time they sleep on it. The ability to hit it when they do is what Orton needs to demonstrate.

It is obviously the biggest question about him. He seems to read defenses well pre-snap, he goes through his progressions quickly and intelligently. He throws a catchable ball in short to medium range, and he has shown the ability to lead the offense. The big question is can he make the opposition respect the deep ball enough to take the extra man out of the box and play us honest. That is the big unanswered question with Orton. But some pretty mediocre arms have been able to do it before, so I'm not ruling Orton out until I see him fail.

Good take. :thumbsup:

lex
08-12-2009, 02:54 PM
His deep ball still isn't a thing of beauty, I agree. Though it is camp so the routes are designed to find his limits and stress them, and he's still getting on the same page with his WRs.

His arm is never going to be Cutler's. That just isn't going to happen. His deep balls (25+ yards) will always be his biggest weakness. But that doesn't preclude him from developing into a standout player. Kurt Warner doesn't throw the best deep ball in the world. Neither does Tom Brady. The fact that they CAN hit the deep ball though, and have some elite WRs who can get open to catch it, keeps teams honest.

Defensed don't defend the deep pass because they expect you to have a guy running a deep route every single down, but because they don't want it to go for six the one time they sleep on it. The ability to hit it when they do is what Orton needs to demonstrate.

It is obviously the biggest question about him. He seems to read defenses well pre-snap, he goes through his progressions quickly and intelligently. He throws a catchable ball in short to medium range, and he has shown the ability to lead the offense. The big question is can he make the opposition respect the deep ball enough to take the extra man out of the box and play us honest. That is the big unanswered question with Orton. But some pretty mediocre arms have been able to do it before, so I'm not ruling Orton out until I see him fail.

The fact that he doesnt have a strong arm doesnt mean there cant be long pass plays...but he will have to deliver a good ball to a WR who has daylight. Hopefull, he's smart enough to recognize when those opportunities to exist.

I think the biggest problem with his lack of arm strength is that it brings defenders up into the box.

Drek
08-12-2009, 04:11 PM
The fact that he doesnt have a strong arm doesnt mean there cant be long pass plays...but he will have to deliver a good ball to a WR who has daylight. Hopefull, he's smart enough to recognize when those opportunities to exist.

I think the biggest problem with his lack of arm strength is that it brings defenders up into the box.

I think defenders coming up in the box is something we'll need to live with regardless, because our running game looks dangerous. Orton will need to prove those defensive coordinators wrong. Him being able to take those one on one deep coverage situations and turn them into big plays will define his success as a QB for us. But we're trying to analyze him in his second week of camp before even a single pre-season game is played and he's still working on familiarity with receivers.

Its not a time where we can legitimately judge him. What's worse, some try to discredit him based on a few broken up passes by what looks like a very good defensive backfield when he's throwing a hundred passes a day. Give it a few weeks into the regular season and we'll really know who he is as a QB.

lex
08-12-2009, 04:24 PM
I think defenders coming up in the box is something we'll need to live with regardless, because our running game looks dangerous. Orton will need to prove those defensive coordinators wrong. Him being able to take those one on one deep coverage situations and turn them into big plays will define his success as a QB for us. But we're trying to analyze him in his second week of camp before even a single pre-season game is played and he's still working on familiarity with receivers.

Its not a time where we can legitimately judge him. What's worse, some try to discredit him based on a few broken up passes by what looks like a very good defensive backfield when he's throwing a hundred passes a day. Give it a few weeks into the regular season and we'll really know who he is as a QB.


If you have a QB with a bigger arm, the defense has to cover more of the field. That can help the running game. I go back to Plummers last days as QB when he was bottling up the running game. They put Jay in and suddenly the running game opened up more...just on the arm strength along. Its just a reality though that theyre going to have to scheme around this until Orton can prove he has enough arm to punish them deep.

Drek
08-12-2009, 05:47 PM
If you have a QB with a bigger arm, the defense has to cover more of the field. That can help the running game. I go back to Plummers last days as QB when he was bottling up the running game. They put Jay in and suddenly the running game opened up more...just on the arm strength along. Its just a reality though that theyre going to have to scheme around this until Orton can prove he has enough arm to punish them deep.
**** man, we aren't talking about Chad Pennington here. Even in Camp Orton has already been putting the ball 35-40 yards down field. That is more than any defense actually lines up to cover.

You're acting like Orton has the arm of a junior high girl or something. The real question is if he can do so consistently and accurately enough. Its got nothing to do with throwing harder or deeper, its hitting his target with regularity.