PDA

View Full Version : Video highlights of Knowshon's 1st practice


montrose
08-09-2009, 10:04 PM
A few brief clips at denverbroncos.com - Knowshon shakes a LB (looks like DJ) out of his shoes then stiff arms Lee Robinson to the ground.

Cito Pelon
08-09-2009, 10:28 PM
I'm looking forward to see this kid play.

broncocalijohn
08-09-2009, 10:31 PM
where is the link? Too lazy to go over there to DB.com

Baba Booey
08-09-2009, 10:35 PM
Ladies, I like what I see.

Yeah yeah it's only three clips but he looks big and shifty enough to boot. If he's taking on DJ head on like that then I'm not worried.

azbroncfan
08-09-2009, 10:37 PM
Moreno is bigger than I remember him being in college. He looks like a truckload.

KevinJames
08-09-2009, 10:43 PM
OMG I love the way this kid runs

/McLovin "I gotta bonerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr"

24champ
08-09-2009, 10:53 PM
He looks like a truckload.

That was my initial thought when I saw him on the CBS4 interview with Vic Lombardi tonight.

Hulamau
08-09-2009, 10:57 PM
OMG I love the way this kid runs

/McLovin "I gotta bonerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr"

Easy there Poncho! :-) :pimp:

BroncoMan4ever
08-09-2009, 11:01 PM
dude put on some muscle since college. also, i don't care that he missed 8 days i like him.

that stiff arm he put on Lee Robinson was badass.

lex
08-09-2009, 11:05 PM
dude put on some muscle since college. also, i don't care that he missed 8 days i like him.

that stiff arm he put on Lee Robinson was badass.

The stiff arm was nice but even better than that was how he recovered from the facemask and quickly gained his feet without getting injured. And right by the sidelines too. It says a lot about his balance and flexibility...his agility was already a known strength so hopefully all those things add up to him staying healthy.

BroncoMan4ever
08-09-2009, 11:08 PM
The stiff arm was nice but even better than that was how he recovered from the facemask and quickly gained his feet without getting injured. And right by the sidelines too. It says a lot about his balance and flexibility...his agility was already a known strength so hopefully all those things add up to him staying healthy.

another thing, is his size and power. i assumed we were getting college version of Knowshon. a little bit on the smaller side, somewhere in the range of 205-210, but it looks like he has added a lot of size and power.

Popps
08-09-2009, 11:08 PM
http://web1.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Images/09%20Blogs/trainingcamp/090809/moreno_debut_ze_090809.jpg

prunch
08-09-2009, 11:09 PM
another thing, is his size and power. i assumed we were getting college version of Knowshon. a little bit on the smaller side, somewhere in the range of 205-210, but it looks like he has added a lot of size and power.

McD says 217lbs

worm
08-09-2009, 11:11 PM
I have a good feeling about Moreno.

It will be interesting to see if he tones his act down when he is in the Pros.

Popps
08-09-2009, 11:11 PM
****, I'm brain-freezing. Who is #84 for us, now?

Popps
08-09-2009, 11:12 PM
Wow, Royal just looks unreal running his routes. Champ makes a nice recover to break up that pass, but Royal is just as smooth as silk coming out of those cuts. Looks like a young Marvin Harrison.

lex
08-09-2009, 11:14 PM
another thing, is his size and power. i assumed we were getting college version of Knowshon. a little bit on the smaller side, somewhere in the range of 205-210, but it looks like he has added a lot of size and power.


True but when I saw that, the first thing I thought was that if that was Torain (or even Buckhalter), he'd be out for the year.

s0phr0syne
08-09-2009, 11:14 PM
****, I'm brain-freezing. Who is #84 for us, now?


Lloyd, Brandon.

lex
08-09-2009, 11:15 PM
I have a good feeling about Moreno.

It will be interesting to see if he tones his act down when he is in the Pros.

What act?

Cito Pelon
08-09-2009, 11:15 PM
Strong agile dude, Bobby Turner, Rick Dennison. Seems like a good combination to me.

Popps
08-09-2009, 11:36 PM
Lloyd, Brandon.

Thought maybe that was him.

He looked very strong running that route. Was being held and body-checked, and got separation and made a nice catch.

I know he's probably a tease, but I'm excited to see if McD can resurrect his career a bit. He can be a nice deep threat for us.

Doggcow
08-09-2009, 11:43 PM
Is he even signed yet?

Popps
08-09-2009, 11:51 PM
Is he even signed yet?

Yep. Couldn't practice until he was inked.

Good to go.

Doggcow
08-09-2009, 11:56 PM
Yep. Couldn't practice until he was inked.

Good to go.

I was making a joke :)

Cito Pelon
08-10-2009, 12:12 AM
McD says 217lbs

Moreno is pretty stout. 215-220 is a good size for a tailback. He doesn't have to carry all the load. Thankfully some foresight was exercised adding Buck, Walker, Jordan to complement the holdovers Hillis and Torain. Bobby Turner is not an idiot. McD knows a few things, and keeping Bobby Turner and Rick Dennison said a lot.

Popps
08-10-2009, 12:38 AM
I was making a joke :)

Oh, gotcha. :)

Brandon Marshall, on the other hand...

BroncoMan4ever
08-10-2009, 12:53 AM
True but when I saw that, the first thing I thought was that if that was Torain (or even Buckhalter), he'd be out for the year.

if it was Torain a limb probably would have fallen off. and then next offseason all his followers would be calling for us to give him another shot, because if he could only stay healthy he would be great for us.

TomServo
08-10-2009, 12:55 AM
ok, so what good did all world backs like floyd little and otis armstrong do us without a good qb and good team to help them?
otis armsrrong was the real deal wasted on a mediocre team. he only won a rushing title from freakin OJ in his prime
how many rings and play off wins did barry sanders have?
ok,youngsters, dont recognize floyd little or otis armstrong or even barry sanders, for all the young'uns here what good has adrien peterson done the vikings lately without a good qb to help him out?
"all is well we have a great rb."
so how did TD fare with brian greise as qb?

Hulamau
08-10-2009, 03:04 AM
McD also have some love for Chris Baker on his Day 10 presser. he said "Baker has shown a proclivity for pushing people back at the line and as Coach Nunnely said being able to change the line of scrimmage like that is a real asset in both the run game and for helping to collapse the passing pocket." !

Sounds like we 'may', (underline may) have found our NT for the future ASSUMING he can continue improving like that and continues to catch the coaches eyes like that ... Good going Baker .. keep it up!

Wouldn't that be a steal if we get an (eventually) dominating NT out of UDFA :-)!

The guy is sure built for the part and is strong as an ox!

Anyway, I keep seeing more and more about him as the days go by and he will be one to watch in these preseason games.

Broncoman13
08-10-2009, 04:59 AM
Moreno is pretty stout. 215-220 is a good size for a tailback. He doesn't have to carry all the load. Thankfully some foresight was exercised adding Buck, Walker, Jordan to complement the holdovers Hillis and Torain. Bobby Turner is not an idiot. McD knows a few things, and keeping Bobby Turner and Rick Dennison said a lot.

Don't know whether it was foresight or not, but its a nice problem to have right now. Hillis can be used in a variety of roles and then you have excellent depth behind Moreno/Buckhalter (whoever ends up starting). I think it was just a matter of an excellent RB that they rated quite highly falling into their laps. They had a thing for Tyson Jackson, BJ Raji, and Mark Sanchez. If any one of them would have been available, they would have picked them first. But, with those guys gone they ended up with a flashy player that will help sell tickets. In fact, you could argue that Knowshon was one of the more sexy picks in all of the draft. Star RB with hours of highlight reels. But, you don't bring in three mid-level RBs and try to bring in a fourth (Ward) and call that foresight. That's called addressing the issue. I doubt anybody would argue that the money spent on Lamont Jordan and J.J. Arrington would have been better of being combined and spent on Chris Canty... in hindsight.

Broncoman13
08-10-2009, 05:06 AM
He also suggested that we should wait and see how he does within our system going up against another team's system, one that he isn't familiar with. I think that equates to, "lets see how he does against a Center and Guard Combo that are a combined 1000lbs rather than the combined 880 lbs we have right now." His success has come against our interior line which is still pretty light in the ass. Ben Hamilton and Casey Weigmann seem to do just enough in the power run game. This is one of my concerns and an area I've been watching during camp. When we get inside the redzone we kind of scrap the ZBS and go to more of a power running game. On the edges we are strong beyond belief. Especially when you run behind a combo of Clady and Graham. Up the middle though we've seen mixed results with guys like Fields and Baker able to make noise. Hope to see some goal line opportunities vs the Niners.

McD also have some love for Chris Baker on his Day 10 presser. he said "Baker has shown a proclivity for pushing people back at the line and as Coach Nunnely said being able to change the line of scrimmage like that is a real asset in both the run game and for helping to collapse the passing pocket." !

Sounds like we 'may', (underline may) have found our NT for the future ASSUMING he can continue improving like that and continues to catch the coaches eyes like that ... Good going Baker .. keep it up!

Wouldn't that be a steal if we get an (eventually) dominating NT out of UDFA :-)!

The guy is sure built for the part and is strong as an ox!

Anyway, I keep seeing more and more about him as the days go by and he will be one to watch in these preseason games.

Broncoman13
08-10-2009, 05:21 AM
Love Knowshon's power. I think it's a bit underrated right now. Before too long people will really respect the fact that his 215 lbs is a very strong frame and that he isn't one to go down easily. He has some pop to him and will make a guy pay for letting up on him. This guy is going to pay off in the 4th quarter of games. Whether it's Hillis or Moreno running the ball, defenders are going to get a little tired of dealing with them. Trying to figure out where Moreno is going (juke, spin, stiff arm, or truck) and then getting caught with that surprising power on the truck... and then the pure strength of Hills who truly looks like the Juggernaut when running the ball.

Strong running game coming folks. If you can run the ball at will in the NFL you can win a lot of football games. This team isn't going to be one that can come from behind and put up a bunch of points. But they'll control games and win some 17-14 type games.

_Oro_
08-10-2009, 05:25 AM
ok, so what good did all world backs like floyd little and otis armstrong do us without a good qb and good team to help them?
otis armsrrong was the real deal wasted on a mediocre team. he only won a rushing title from freakin OJ in his prime
how many rings and play off wins did barry sanders have?
ok,youngsters, dont recognize floyd little or otis armstrong or even barry sanders, for all the young'uns here what good has adrien peterson done the vikings lately without a good qb to help him out?
"all is well we have a great rb."
so how did TD fare with brian greise as qb?

After watching that stiff arm and your thinking about a QB????

_Oro_
08-10-2009, 05:29 AM
Don't know whether it was foresight or not, but its a nice problem to have right now. Hillis can be used in a variety of roles and then you have excellent depth behind Moreno/Buckhalter (whoever ends up starting). I think it was just a matter of an excellent RB that they rated quite highly falling into their laps. They had a thing for Tyson Jackson, BJ Raji, and Mark Sanchez. If any one of them would have been available, they would have picked them first. But, with those guys gone they ended up with a flashy player that will help sell tickets. In fact, you could argue that Knowshon was one of the more sexy picks in all of the draft. Star RB with hours of highlight reels. But, you don't bring in three mid-level RBs and try to bring in a fourth (Ward) and call that foresight. That's called addressing the issue. I doubt anybody would argue that the money spent on Lamont Jordan and J.J. Arrington would have been better of being combined and spent on Chris Canty... in hindsight.

McD's plan was to go into the draft without having to draft any position out of need. He picked up players in FA that filled glaring holes so he wouldn't be constrained in the draft. He actually took the BPA approach. Which was great after watching the draft 3 cbs in a row draft.

Broncoman13
08-10-2009, 05:53 AM
McD's plan was to go into the draft without having to draft any position out of need. He picked up players in FA that filled glaring holes so he wouldn't be constrained in the draft. He actually took the BPA approach. Which was great after watching the draft 3 cbs in a row draft.

Bawhahahaha, if his plan was to go into the draft without any needs he sure did screw the pooch in free agency. We needed and STILL need DLinemen. Sorry, epic fail for you on that post.

Btw, if you feel that way about drafting 3 CBs in a row, how did you feel about bringing in 3 RBs in a row in FA?

Not that I have a problem with what McD is doing or has done, but your logic is so flawed it's comical.

titan
08-10-2009, 06:00 AM
McD also have some love for Chris Baker on his Day 10 presser. he said "Baker has shown a proclivity for pushing people back at the line and as Coach Nunnely said being able to change the line of scrimmage like that is a real asset in both the run game and for helping to collapse the passing pocket." !



If Baker could come through that would be great. Maybe he could be part of a rotation at nose tackle. With the physical demands of the position you need more than just one. Old timers may remember even in the Orange Crush days of 77 Joel Collier used to substitute frequently (playing starter Rubin Carter two out of every 3 series)

I was reading a training camp review of BJ Raji the other day. Raji is still a holdout for Green Bay but when he gets to camp the Packers plan to convert him to a defensive end in the 3-4. Raji was supposedly the best nose tackle coming out of the draft, yet GB isn't even going to use him there! Maybe Baker will turn out to be the best NT of the 09 rookie class.

cmhargrove
08-10-2009, 06:03 AM
ok, so what good did all world backs like floyd little and otis armstrong do us without a good qb and good team to help them?
otis armsrrong was the real deal wasted on a mediocre team. he only won a rushing title from freakin OJ in his prime
how many rings and play off wins did barry sanders have?
ok,youngsters, dont recognize floyd little or otis armstrong or even barry sanders, for all the young'uns here what good has adrien peterson done the vikings lately without a good qb to help him out?
"all is well we have a great rb."
so how did TD fare with brian greise as qb?

Part of the "Great QB" you mentioned is great receivers to make him "look great." We have great receivers, and a great O-line. That means we just need a good decision maker who is decently accurate in the pocket.

We need a QB that can win a few games on his own, but we don't need one who tries to win every game by himself.

Minnesota has had a pretty weak game plan, and a pretty weak receiving corps, so I don't think the Vikings/AP analogy fits here.

One the other hand, if we can really start turning our defense around (at least middle of the pack this year), take a look more at the Giants and Steelers. They have employed average QB's (statistically), a solid running game, and a defense that doesn't let the team down. I think that's a better winning formula than putting all the pressure on the QB. I know our offense will be good enough to "win", but will our defense?

cmhargrove
08-10-2009, 06:07 AM
I hope Knowshon is really hitting his stride by weeks 5-9. We need a RB that will make things happen if we are going to win during that stretch.

Week 5 - New England
Week 6 - Chargers
Week 7 - bye
Week 8 - Ravens
Week 9 - Steelers

If he can help us win two of those four games, i'm buying his jersey...

Mr. Elway
08-10-2009, 06:25 AM
ok, so what good did all world backs like floyd little and otis armstrong do us without a good qb and good team to help them?
otis armsrrong was the real deal wasted on a mediocre team. he only won a rushing title from freakin OJ in his prime
how many rings and play off wins did barry sanders have?
ok,youngsters, dont recognize floyd little or otis armstrong or even barry sanders, for all the young'uns here what good has adrien peterson done the vikings lately without a good qb to help him out?
"all is well we have a great rb."
so how did TD fare with brian greise as qb?

You're right. Let's just send Moreno back home and forget it.

Br0nc0Buster
08-10-2009, 06:37 AM
Bawhahahaha, if his plan was to go into the draft without any needs he sure did screw the pooch in free agency. We needed and STILL need DLinemen. Sorry, epic fail for you on that post.

Btw, if you feel that way about drafting 3 CBs in a row, how did you feel about bringing in 3 RBs in a row in FA?

Not that I have a problem with what McD is doing or has done, but your logic is so flawed it's comical.

wtf
That is what FA is for, we had a need for pass catching backs, so we signed some
Not all of our needs were going to be addressed in one offseason, it is a process.

His plan was to get the best players he thought would fit his system in the draft, not use picks to shotgun a position

_Oro_
08-10-2009, 06:48 AM
Bawhahahaha, if his plan was to go into the draft without any needs he sure did screw the pooch in free agency. We needed and STILL need DLinemen. Sorry, epic fail for you on that post.

Btw, if you feel that way about drafting 3 CBs in a row, how did you feel about bringing in 3 RBs in a row in FA?

Not that I have a problem with what McD is doing or has done, but your logic is so flawed it's comical.

Wow didn't know you were a huge D-Bag. The big ticket dlinemen in FA were ripoffs. The only RB's they felt like keeping around were Hillis and Torain. Getting 3 affordable RB's in FA isn't a stretch. Apparently your in the overpay for mediocre DL crew? And you also liked drafting 3 cbs in a row?

lostknight
08-10-2009, 06:55 AM
Week 5 - New England
Week 6 - Chargers
Week 7 - bye
Week 8 - Ravens
Week 9 - Steelers



Well, I am pretty confident about not loosing Week 7. Outside of that, this might be hard.

Captain 'Dre
08-10-2009, 07:30 AM
I love Moreno's balance and shiftiness, but I'm a bit concerned with his lack of top end speed.

He packs pretty good power for his size, but he won't run over too many NFL defenders.

worm
08-10-2009, 07:33 AM
I love Moreno's balance and shiftiness, but I'm a bit concerned with his lack of top end speed.



Were you concerned about TDs lack of speed?

Lots of ways to get things done.

Broncoman13
08-10-2009, 08:10 AM
Wow didn't know you were a huge D-Bag. The big ticket dlinemen in FA were ripoffs. The only RB's they felt like keeping around were Hillis and Torain. Getting 3 affordable RB's in FA isn't a stretch. Apparently your in the overpay for mediocre DL crew? And you also liked drafting 3 cbs in a row?

You're right, Haynesworth was a medicore lineman. Chris Canty sucks. What was I thinking.

Another guy asked what is Free Agency for... I ask, what is the draft for? You build your team through the draft, NOT FREE AGENCY!

I didn't care for drafting three CBs in a row. But, its funny how nobody is complaining about drafting two safeties this year. Could it be b/c our safety play the last couple years was HORRID? I guess most forget how bad we were torched by the Colts and why the three CBs came to be, same principle as to why we drafted two safties after bringing in two safties in FA.

Seriously, Chris Canty and Albert Haynesworth are mediocre??? I don't know what to say to that?

Broncoman13
08-10-2009, 08:13 AM
wtf
That is what FA is for, we had a need for pass catching backs, so we signed some
Not all of our needs were going to be addressed in one offseason, it is a process.

His plan was to get the best players he thought would fit his system in the draft, not use picks to shotgun a position

FA is not for building your team. FA is for adding small pieces here and there in positions of need. You build your team through the draft and add pieces to that puzzle from FA. McD had FA first which is why I'm not too concerned with his FA moves. Next year I suspect he will be very focused on what we need and it will likely be a high priced player or two in key spots... not the 15 players we saw this year.

I can't believe this needs and explanation.

Broncoman13
08-10-2009, 08:16 AM
I love Moreno's balance and shiftiness, but I'm a bit concerned with his lack of top end speed.

He packs pretty good power for his size, but he won't run over too many NFL defenders.

I think he also has the element of surprise. You saw a perfect example of that with DJ Williams in his first practice. The first time he tries to tackle him, Knowshon puts on a nifty move and leaves DJ grasping at air. The next time up DJ is ready for a nifty move and Knowshon lowers the shoulder and blasts him. One on one, you have to worry about Knowshon's moves (juke, spin, hurdle) and then his power (truck, stiff arm). There won't be too many people that take him down in the open field.

You are right that he won't run away from anybody. So maybe we won't see a bunch of 50 yard runs... but I'm betting he'll have tons of 10-20 yard runs!!!

lex
08-10-2009, 08:40 AM
I think he also has the element of surprise. You saw a perfect example of that with DJ Williams in his first practice. The first time he tries to tackle him, Knowshon puts on a nifty move and leaves DJ grasping at air. The next time up DJ is ready for a nifty move and Knowshon lowers the shoulder and blasts him. One on one, you have to worry about Knowshon's moves (juke, spin, hurdle) and then his power (truck, stiff arm). There won't be too many people that take him down in the open field.

You are right that he won't run away from anybody. So maybe we won't see a bunch of 50 yard runs... but I'm betting he'll have tons of 10-20 yard runs!!!


Here is the thing with the lack of speed. If he can have the kind of balance that corresponds with functional strength...that is the ability to absorb contact without having being slown down much, that can go a long way at springing you towards TDs. Terrell Davis had this functional balance/strength in spades. But Terrell was incredibly strong for a guy his size. Moreno, runs with more wiggle than TD and I wonder if that will work out to be a detriment. If you can shake a guy with minimal movement or juking, you maintain your speed better. Moreno is a natural and creative runner and can be lethal when it comes to making that one cut though.

I guess what Im saying is that its not always about pure speed. It can be just as much about not losing speed often times.

colonelbeef
08-10-2009, 08:45 AM
Part of the "Great QB" you mentioned is great receivers to make him "look great." We have great receivers, and a great O-line. That means we just need a good decision maker who is decently accurate in the pocket.

We need a QB that can win a few games on his own, but we don't need one who tries to win every game by himself.

Minnesota has had a pretty weak game plan, and a pretty weak receiving corps, so I don't think the Vikings/AP analogy fits here.

One the other hand, if we can really start turning our defense around (at least middle of the pack this year), take a look more at the Giants and Steelers. They have employed average QB's (statistically), a solid running game, and a defense that doesn't let the team down. I think that's a better winning formula than putting all the pressure on the QB. I know our offense will be good enough to "win", but will our defense?

That is all well and good and I have no problem with any style of football so long as winning is the endgame, however there are 2 major hurdles with this overall assessment.

1. If Roethlisberger and Eli are average QBs, Orton is way below average. Both are superior to Orton in every measurable way, and both have proven themselves to be clutch performers. Big Ben, with all of his perceived indiscretions, has won 2 Super Bowl trophies. Guess you don't have to be a boy scout choirboy to be a winner, eh Cutler haters?

2. the 2009 Denver Broncos defense has exactly 1 player, possibly 2, that would supplant anyone starting on the Steelers 2008 or Giants 2007 defensive 11. Both teams fielded the best starting dline in their respective league, the Broncos field perhaps the worst.

Drek
08-10-2009, 08:49 AM
You're right, Haynesworth was a medicore lineman. Chris Canty sucks. What was I thinking.

Another guy asked what is Free Agency for... I ask, what is the draft for? You build your team through the draft, NOT FREE AGENCY!

I didn't care for drafting three CBs in a row. But, its funny how nobody is complaining about drafting two safeties this year. Could it be b/c our safety play the last couple years was HORRID? I guess most forget how bad we were torched by the Colts and why the three CBs came to be, same principle as to why we drafted two safties after bringing in two safties in FA.

Seriously, Chris Canty and Albert Haynesworth are mediocre??? I don't know what to say to that?

Yes, lets pay Albert Haynesworth EIGHT figures a year to play NT in a 3-4. Or hell, why not grab an above average 3-4 DE like Canty and give him the $7M a year he got from the Giants (a 4-3 team FYI).

You're talking about giving monster deals to guys who either A. don't fit the system at all or B. have never been better than an above average starter. $7M for Chris Canty? His contract would be 90% of the way to making Marshall happy and ignoring position the two of them aren't even close to on the same page in talent and productivity.

McDaniels didn't fill all the holes in FA and then go BPA in the draft. But then this team had more holes than locks when he took over. He filled the holes he could find worthwhile value for in FA and took the best long term investments he could in the draft. Just so happens that primarily focused on fixing our running game and overhauling a porous secondary.

kamakazi_kal
08-10-2009, 08:53 AM
I think Moreno not Orton is our best chance at a good season. Pound that ball and protect the defense.

lex
08-10-2009, 09:04 AM
I think Moreno not Orton is our best chance at a good season. Pound that ball and protect the defense.

Yup. More balance at the very least. We needed balance last year and we'll need it more than ever this year. We need that running game to yield opportunities in the passing game.

Br0nc0Buster
08-10-2009, 09:16 AM
FA is not for building your team. FA is for adding small pieces here and there in positions of need. You build your team through the draft and add pieces to that puzzle from FA. McD had FA first which is why I'm not too concerned with his FA moves. Next year I suspect he will be very focused on what we need and it will likely be a high priced player or two in key spots... not the 15 players we saw this year.

I can't believe this needs and explanation.

I dont think you are addressing anything I said, I understand how FA and the draft should be utilized.

I just dont understand the comparison of drafting 3 corners and signing RBs in FA.
But you are also complaining about not signing Dlinemen....there was nothing there in FA unless you want us to severely overpay

Getting into bidding wars is not the secret to success

gyldenlove
08-10-2009, 09:19 AM
I hope Knowshon is really hitting his stride by weeks 5-9. We need a RB that will make things happen if we are going to win during that stretch.

Week 5 - New England
Week 6 - Chargers
Week 7 - bye
Week 8 - Ravens
Week 9 - Steelers

If he can help us win two of those four games, i'm buying his jersey...

Hillis and or Moreno will rush for 100 yards in at least 2 of those games, mark it down.

JJJ
08-10-2009, 10:31 AM
So can anyone tell me about your blocking schemes this year? Still zone blocking schemes? How has the coaching change affected this?

Br0nc0Buster
08-10-2009, 10:34 AM
So can anyone tell me about your blocking schemes this year? Still zone blocking schemes? How has the coaching change affected this?

Still zone blocking
But apparently in the redzone we are using more power formations with pulling guards over the zone running

Broncoman13
08-10-2009, 10:59 AM
Yes, lets pay Albert Haynesworth EIGHT figures a year to play NT in a 3-4. Or hell, why not grab an above average 3-4 DE like Canty and give him the $7M a year he got from the Giants (a 4-3 team FYI).

You're talking about giving monster deals to guys who either A. don't fit the system at all or B. have never been better than an above average starter. $7M for Chris Canty? His contract would be 90% of the way to making Marshall happy and ignoring position the two of them aren't even close to on the same page in talent and productivity.

McDaniels didn't fill all the holes in FA and then go BPA in the draft. But then this team had more holes than locks when he took over. He filled the holes he could find worthwhile value for in FA and took the best long term investments he could in the draft. Just so happens that primarily focused on fixing our running game and overhauling a porous secondary.

The Broncos liked him enough to inquire... what does that say about McD then?

Drek
08-10-2009, 11:43 AM
The Broncos liked him enough to inquire... what does that say about McD then?

Who Canty?

Of course. They liked Vonnie Holliday enough to inquire as well. But when Canty had $7M on the table from a 4-3 team and no 3-4 team came even close to it what does that say about Canty then? Or the FA DL market as a whole when a guy like Canty gets that kind of money?

DBroncos4life
08-10-2009, 11:53 AM
Were you concerned about TDs lack of speed?

Lots of ways to get things done.

TD was a 6th round pick. I doubt many people even thought twice about him and his speed. TD turned out to be a stud but lets not make a 6th round pick that became a huge steal out to be on the same level as a guy that was picked 12th over all. The expectations between the two picks are not even close to being in the same ball park.

DBroncos4life
08-10-2009, 12:07 PM
Who Canty?

Of course. They liked Vonnie Holliday enough to inquire as well. But when Canty had $7M on the table from a 4-3 team and no 3-4 team came even close to it what does that say about Canty then? Or the FA DL market as a whole when a guy like Canty gets that kind of money?

Albert Haynesworth, we contacted his agent during the opening hours of FA period. As far as Canty goes I think you under estimate him. True he signed with a 4-3 team after playing very well in a 3-4 system. The Giants as a team signed two of the better DL players that were FA's in Rocky Benard and Chris Canty what does that tell you about there team? Do you think the thought they had a weak DL? I doubt it but they thought they could still get stronger up front and improve on one of the best DL's that just happened to have a few freak injuries last year. If Osi Umenyiora comes back strong from his injury having Benard, Tuck, and Canty on that DL is going to be hell for teams. The Giants have a plan to build from the DL out and its a very good plan and they understand while you have to PAY for talent on the DL you can never ever have enough talented players to rush the passer.

worm
08-10-2009, 12:23 PM
TD was a 6th round pick. I doubt many people even thought twice about him and his speed. TD turned out to be a stud but lets not make a 6th round pick that became a huge steal out to be on the same level as a guy that was picked 12th over all. The expectations between the two picks are not even close to being in the same ball park.

I could care less where they were drafted or if they weren't even drafted. I am not even trying to compare the two heads-up.

The point is....that speed wasn't an issue for TD (or for many RBs regardless of draft status). There are a lot of ways to win in the NFL. Speed for a RB is just one of many attributes that will allow him to be successful. ie. I am not worried about Moreno's top end speed right now.

Broncoman13
08-10-2009, 12:40 PM
Who Canty?

Of course. They liked Vonnie Holliday enough to inquire as well. But when Canty had $7M on the table from a 4-3 team and no 3-4 team came even close to it what does that say about Canty then? Or the FA DL market as a whole when a guy like Canty gets that kind of money?

Come on Drek, they gave Buckhalter and Arrington more than that (combined). In hindsight they could have did without Jordan or Arrington and signed Canty pretty easily. And to say that he didn't have anything close to the $7m he was getting from NY, he himself said that he had better offers.

We also inquired about Haynesworth and despite the huge contract he got from Wash., he too said he had better offers. They decided on the big markets and it's pretty much common knowledge that NY ends up overpaying b/c of their market. $7m in NY is about the same as $4m in Denver.

Funny how BJ Raji and Tyson Jackson were both on the Broncos' radar and the players they most closely compare to are Haynesworth and Canty.

Canty is 6'7 and 300#, how much would that help on this DL right now? Even if you over paid a little, the upgrade over McBean would be huge... well worth even $7m.

Cito Pelon
08-10-2009, 01:05 PM
McD also have some love for Chris Baker on his Day 10 presser. he said "Baker has shown a proclivity for pushing people back at the line and as Coach Nunnely said being able to change the line of scrimmage like that is a real asset in both the run game and for helping to collapse the passing pocket." !

Sounds like we 'may', (underline may) have found our NT for the future ASSUMING he can continue improving like that and continues to catch the coaches eyes like that ... Good going Baker .. keep it up!

Wouldn't that be a steal if we get an (eventually) dominating NT out of UDFA :-)!

The guy is sure built for the part and is strong as an ox!

Anyway, I keep seeing more and more about him as the days go by and he will be one to watch in these preseason games.

FWIW, Alfred Williams says "don't worry about the passrush this year, it's gonna be dynamite." Apparently, he's liking what he sees from Ayers, Crowder, Fields and Elvis. I thought maybe your batteries needed a recharge, so I figured I'd throw that in for you. :wiggle:

Cito Pelon
08-10-2009, 01:29 PM
Don't know whether it was foresight or not, but its a nice problem to have right now. Hillis can be used in a variety of roles and then you have excellent depth behind Moreno/Buckhalter (whoever ends up starting). I think it was just a matter of an excellent RB that they rated quite highly falling into their laps. They had a thing for Tyson Jackson, BJ Raji, and Mark Sanchez. If any one of them would have been available, they would have picked them first. But, with those guys gone they ended up with a flashy player that will help sell tickets. In fact, you could argue that Knowshon was one of the more sexy picks in all of the draft. Star RB with hours of highlight reels. But, you don't bring in three mid-level RBs and try to bring in a fourth (Ward) and call that foresight. That's called addressing the issue. I doubt anybody would argue that the money spent on Lamont Jordan and J.J. Arrington would have been better of being combined and spent on Chris Canty... in hindsight.

Absolutely.

Cito Pelon
08-10-2009, 01:44 PM
Bawhahahaha, if his plan was to go into the draft without any needs he sure did screw the pooch in free agency. We needed and STILL need DLinemen. Sorry, epic fail for you on that post.

Btw, if you feel that way about drafting 3 CBs in a row, how did you feel about bringing in 3 RBs in a row in FA?

Not that I have a problem with what McD is doing or has done, but your logic is so flawed it's comical.

They got who they could in FA for the DL. Don't pretend like there was a bunch of DL and LB guys available. Teams locked up their FA's at DL and LB, even franchising them before signing them longterm.

I don't buy into the notion that we're screwed at DL. I think the DL will be just fine, naturally we'll find out pretty quick if I'm right or wrong.

cmhargrove
08-10-2009, 01:59 PM
That is all well and good and I have no problem with any style of football so long as winning is the endgame, however there are 2 major hurdles with this overall assessment.

1. If Roethlisberger and Eli are average QBs, Orton is way below average. Both are superior to Orton in every measurable way, and both have proven themselves to be clutch performers. Big Ben, with all of his perceived indiscretions, has won 2 Super Bowl trophies. Guess you don't have to be a boy scout choirboy to be a winner, eh Cutler haters?

2. the 2009 Denver Broncos defense has exactly 1 player, possibly 2, that would supplant anyone starting on the Steelers 2008 or Giants 2007 defensive 11. Both teams fielded the best starting dline in their respective league, the Broncos field perhaps the worst.

You're right, of course. I'm not saying that Big ben and Eli aren't clutch, because they have both come through when it counted most. But statistically, both have been "average" QB's statistically. On the other hand, Cutler had already started to accumulate gaudy stats, but wasn't quite "clutch."

And, you're right about the actual differences in defenses. I just put forth the idea that if we can bring the defense back to a respectable level, we can win a lot of games with an average QB, a strong running game, and a talented receiving corps.

azbroncfan
08-10-2009, 03:07 PM
Haynesworth would of made a great NT. He would make a great DT at any of the positions you put him at on the interior.

Drek
08-10-2009, 03:32 PM
Come on Drek, they gave Buckhalter and Arrington more than that (combined). In hindsight they could have did without Jordan or Arrington and signed Canty pretty easily. And to say that he didn't have anything close to the $7m he was getting from NY, he himself said that he had better offers.
1. He got $7M a YEAR. Arrington (who we paid almost nothing to since he never passed a physical) and Jordan got a 4 year, $10M deal and a 2 year, $2.5M deal respectively, FYI, so their AAV was all of $3.75, or half of what Canty will make next year. The more expensive portion of that we aren't going to be paying.

2. If he had better offers then he should've probably let his agent know. It was widely reported that they felt jilted by the Redskins who put an $8M AAV deal on the table and pulled it when they signed Haynesworth. Canty's agent made it sound like he was set to sign there. He took $7M from the Giants because it was the best offer still on the table.

We also inquired about Haynesworth and despite the huge contract he got from Wash., he too said he had better offers. They decided on the big markets and it's pretty much common knowledge that NY ends up overpaying b/c of their market. $7m in NY is about the same as $4m in Denver.
What the hell does that even mean? That Canty would've signed here for $4M? Yet you say he turned down bigger money from other cities, so the notion that NY overpaid doesn't seem to fly with what you're trying to argue in your very next statement.

And its great that these players and their agents talk about having better offers, but why don't they name the teams? Here's a hint: Its bull**** to make them not sound like guys totally out for the money. They shouldn't be ashamed of that fact, but when Albert Haynesworth tries to say he had better than $40M guaranteed over three years then I'm sorry, I got to call bull**** on that until he provides the name of a team and the amount they offered instead.

Funny how BJ Raji and Tyson Jackson were both on the Broncos' radar and the players they most closely compare to are Haynesworth and Canty.
Of course. They could've been had in the draft, where the #12 pick is actually pretty good value financially for a good DL player.

I disagree that Raji and Haynesworth are at all similar, FYI. He's much more like a poor man's Haloti Ngata. As for Jackson, he's similar to Canty in that he'll be a solidly above average 3-4 DE. But do you think KC isn't going to regret giving him that huge deal when he's just another solid lineman and not the next Richard Seymour?

Its not that we didn't want to add DL players. We've kicked the tires on almost every one of them that became available. Its that the market for them is grossly inflated. If we where the Giants and where just a year removed from winning it all we could afford to splurge and add more depth to a spot that we're deep at despite some '08 injuries slowing the unit down. If we had an owner with no limit to how much signing bonus he'll eat when guys flame out and who always is willing to tell himself he's just one player away then maybe we would've splurged even mor eand got a Haynesworth. But instead we're a team that has to work within the realms of reality and reason. A team with more than its fair share of holes to fill heading into this off-season as well.

Canty is 6'7 and 300#, how much would that help on this DL right now? Even if you over paid a little, the upgrade over McBean would be huge... well worth even $7m.
I was probably one of the biggest pro-Canty people on this board when it was clear we where going 3-4. I would absolutely LOVE to have Chris Canty on this team, and its not my money so sure, from that standpoint it'd be great to have him.

But at 6 years, $42M, with $17.5M guarnateed? Roddy White just got the second highest WR contract in the NFL and he got $50M with $18M guaranteed over the same length. Is Chris Canty really worth #2 WR in the NFL money?

I just don't see it. Personally, I think you give the Giants two or three years when that contract starts hitting the fat base salaries and they'll be looking to cut him.

More importantly, our DL doesn't have anything definitive on it, period. For all we know two of McBean, Thomas, Powell, Pedescelaux, Davis, etc. will break through and we'll find ourselves with two solid ends and a bigger need for a NT. Its fiscally imprudent to go spending big money on a single piece when we have no idea how the pieces we currently own will fit into the puzzle long term. To put it in a different perspective, would you want Chris Canty at $7M tied up starting this season, or Vince Wilfork/Casey Hampton at $8M next season? Now what if Thomas and Powell look like solid 3-4 DEs this year?

Until we see the DL shake out this year its just not a unit we should be willing to overpay on. You overpay for the final piece, not a building block.

Broncoman13
08-10-2009, 03:37 PM
FWIW, Alfred Williams says "don't worry about the passrush this year, it's gonna be dynamite." Apparently, he's liking what he sees from Ayers, Crowder, Fields and Elvis. I thought maybe your batteries needed a recharge, so I figured I'd throw that in for you. :wiggle:

If the pass rush is "dynamite" this year it will be b/c of the 3-4 and Nolan bringing that 4th rusher from different locations. I love the 3-4 b/c it's like a blitz every time your rush the QB without having to give up that 5th man in coverage. Nolan actually doesn't blitz very often, but he mixes up the tempo and that 4th rusher can come from anywhere.

ZONA
08-10-2009, 03:40 PM
Moreno shows us his first spin move at training camp. I think we will see this several times this year. Hey, it worked.

denverbroncos.com videos
2:52 on Day 11

watermock
08-10-2009, 06:05 PM
Nice back, good hands.

Could of gotten him w/o trading cutler tho.

Broncoman13
08-10-2009, 09:16 PM
Nice back, good hands.

Could of gotten him w/o trading cutler tho.

Thought he was too slow Mock? Starting to change your mind, dimwit? ;D

Los Broncos
08-10-2009, 11:04 PM
Man he sure is a load of bricks, him and Hillis will be fun to watch for years to come.